Pharyngula

Keeping the new people busy

I’m going to be tied up in work and meetings most of today, yet there are all these new people still flooding the site, begging for entertainment and objects to rage against. Since many of them can’t seem to get beyond the first article at the top of the page, and since, judging by my most recent email (come on, people…do you have to stoop to insulting my mother?) we’re getting down to the dregs, I think we need some more distractions for them. So here’s a little collection of past articles that will serve to infuriate and enlighten. Have fun!

Idiot America

Planet of the Hats

The proper reverence due those who have gone before

Niobrara

Why the wingnuts hate Plan B

What should a scientist think about religion?

A godless ramble against the ditherings of theologians

The Wall: A Sunday morning story

We stand awed at the heights our people have achieved

The hopeless inanity of Egnor

Sanctimonious monsters

Theology is a deceitful strategy

The Courtier’s Reply

The Geoffrey Simmons “debate”

Comments

  1. #1 Coralius
    July 13, 2008

    Planet of the Hats will forever be one of my favorite post, PZ!

  2. #2 J. Brown
    July 13, 2008

    Most of the “wingnuts” I know don’t like plan B for its theoretical effects on post fertilization implantation through the progesterone effects on the endometrial lining. It’s curious you ignored that aspect, central as it is, to their opposition to plan B. In my secular mind, it makes sense that they would have this objection, given their non-utilitarian view of the value of human life, and their selection of fertilization as the the starting point of an individual life worthy of protection. In other words, their position may be wrong, but its not irrational and so worthy of the insult “wingnut”.

  3. #3 Tim
    July 13, 2008

    The furor over the tiny biscuits of doom has died down? Or did they figure out that you did them a favor by getting their circulation going?

  4. #4 philos
    July 13, 2008

    I’m nt vn rlgs nd bl t rlz
    PZ s hypcrt, bgt, nd trs t
    nstgt ht-crms gnst thr ppl.
    H’s s cnfsd, h cn’t vn rmmbr
    wht h sys n prr psts:

    “Thr r sm thngs crtnst wld b rghtly xcrtd fr pblshng: mgn tht n hd drwn n Afrcn-Amrcn fgr s thck-lppd, lw-brwd, smrkng clwn wth wtrmln n n hnd nd frd chckn drmstck n th thr. Fdng bgtry nd flntng rcst strtyps wld b smthng tht wld drv m t prtst ny nwsppr tht ndrsd t–f crs, my prtsts wld nvlv wrtng lttrs nd cnclng sbscrptns, nt rtng nd brnng dwn bldngs. Thr s gnn scl cncrn hr, I thnk. Mslms rprsnt pr nd pprssd ndrclss, nd ths crtns rprsnt rlng stblshmnt ntntnlly tntng thm nd bsclly flppng thm ff. Thy hv cs t b frs!” – PZ Myrs

    [Please ignore the banned wretch philos. Future posts by him will be simply deleted.]

  5. #5 Carlie
    July 13, 2008

    A list of PZ’s greatest hits! Awesome.

  6. #6 clinteas
    July 13, 2008

    Philos,
    here and on various other blogs you have proven yourself to be a hateful prejudiced confused bigot,why dont you just go away.

  7. #7 Jonathan Rothwell
    July 13, 2008

    Perhaps you could compile the creme de la creme from this blog over the years, and publish it as a book?

    It’d give the Religious Right something else to desecrate should they feel that incensed.

  8. #8 Jessa
    July 13, 2008

    What? No Courtier’s Reply?

  9. #9 Matt
    July 13, 2008

    Shorter philos: “There’s a forest around here somewhere but this tree is in the way, dammit!”

    Yeah, because christians are such a poor and oppressed underclass in this country, as opposed to the real social & economic issues facing some muslims in some European countries (like France or Germany). Nice persecution complex there, buddy. It’s not like the rest of us keep having to resist the unending shit and hypocrisy the christians in America keep trying to foist on us.

    You know, like making death threats over a cracker. Which PZ was originally responding to. If you’ll read the actually full post you’re quoting, it doesn’t say what you think it does.

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/poxridden_houses.php

  10. #10 Jonathan Rothwell
    July 13, 2008

    Naff off, Philos. One for the killfile, methinks…

  11. #11 negentropyeater
    July 13, 2008

    It will never stop to amaze me when someone like this Philos makes a completely baseless statement such as “PZ is trying to instigate hate crime against others”, and then gives as only evidence a post which shows the exact opposite.

    I mean it’s quite strange that Philos can’t even realize by himself the ridiculous nature of his own post. He could at least try to find some evidence for his claim “PZ is trying to instigate hate crime against others”. But no, it doesn’t seem to matter to him, evidence, what’s that ? Let’s just put any quote, whatever it means, that’ll do, because, he “believes” in his claim, and that’s all that matters.

  12. #12 philos
    July 13, 2008

    Hmmph, negentropyeater, ever heard of wikipedia?

    I’m not sure if what occurred was a hate crime, but
    basically the Dr. wanted his ‘followers’ to harvest some
    religious artifacts for him, intended for true religious ceremony, so he could purposely denigrate & desecrate those on online video to harass, mock and cause ill-feeling towards others. PZ . . . what an intellectual giant

    Here goes: “Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]

    Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters”

  13. #13 gyokusai
    July 13, 2008

    Most of these phantastic posts are new to me since it’s only a year or so now that I’ve been following the Pharyngula blog.

    And boy, does this post “The proper reverence due those who have gone before” move me to tears.

    ^_^J.

  14. #14 TSC
    July 13, 2008

    What about the gangsta/octo-vid where you’re straight up pimpin’ wit DD and Dicky D? This’ll let ‘em know you ain’t jes sum ordinary cracker.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

  15. #15 Blake Stacey
    July 13, 2008

    philos is already in the dungeon; there must be a bug in the system or some such.

    In an unbelievable act of crass, vile smugness, this petty twerp rushed to my site after the fatal 35W bridge collapse to sneer at atheists. “Contemptible” isn’t a strong enough word for vermin like this, who use tragedy to push their lies on the bereaved. His kind are what make me despise religion.

  16. #16 Paguroidea
    July 13, 2008

    I loved Planet of the Hats the first time I read it when originally posted, and love it even more when I just read again. Great parable!

  17. #17 JStein
    July 13, 2008

    Interesting stuff, PZ.

    Personally, I make it a point to address the difference between religious people (which are fine) and the religious institution (not so much).

    That, and the fact that idiots want to pawn this off as something it’s not (science).

  18. #18 Sili
    July 13, 2008

    (Meh – I had half a post typed out about gay rights, but Opera froze, so I guess it wasn’t in the stars for me to rant here. More signs that I should get my own blog …)

    One the very first posts I read here about a year ago, I think, was about the hypochrisy of anti-abortionists. Something along the lines of “Every abortion is murder – except mine“. Anyone remember that? I seem to have lost track of it.

    Heh – ‘philos’ reminds me of Dan Savage’s “You shall know that they ar Christians by their …” posts. The original for that phrase is “love”, isn’t it?

  19. #19 Kobra
    July 13, 2008

    I KNOW he’s not talking about ME!

    Well, actually, he very well might be…

  20. #20 Kseniya
    July 13, 2008

    Some people just can’t distinguish between a person and an idea, or between a threat made to a person and criticism of an idea.

    Plonk.

  21. #21 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    Those threads with 1000 or more posts are getting less and less fun to read. The cracker trolls seem to have even fewer wits than the others.

  22. #22 negentropyeater
    July 13, 2008

    There is an interesting story which happened a few years ago between UMM Pres.Bruininks and Donohue :

    “UNIV. OF MINNESOTA FUNDS BIGOTRY”
    http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1163

    Bruininks ignored Donohue and let the play go ahead.

    “University defends freedom of expression”
    http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2006/11/13/69873

    Even after there was a Catholic student action trying to stop the play :

    “University of Minnesota OKs anti-Catholic play “The Pope and the Witch,” snubs bishops”
    http://sa.tfp.org/student_action/activities/protests/univ_minnesota_blasphemy2.htm

    In the end, the play did go on…

  23. #23 raven
    July 13, 2008

    Some people just can’t distinguish between a person and an idea, or between a threat made to a person and criticism of an idea.

    That is nothing. Quite a few can’t distinguish between a person and a cracker. Or a petri dish of cells and a person.

  24. #24 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    Patricia @ 21 Wow! I was gone since posting on “It’s a Frackin’ Cracker”, and came back to postings of 1282, 1227, 966, 932, and 843! Holy crap! I went through just about all of them, but there were so many to comment on which would involve much scrolling and eye strain that I just cannot do it! Suffice it to say that we all know the incredible insanities that religion is prone to, and we will most assuredly be subjected to many more rants of abject dementia from religious morons! It just stupifies credulity at what these retards are capable of ranting against! If a measley cracker can induce such insanity, just think what a more outlandish (in the religionists minds!) action will provide. As I have said before, religion has to be the most pernicious forms of insanity that the human mind is afflicted with! Damn, I am so glad that I am a sound atheist and free of such deep irrational psychoses as the religionists exhibit.

  25. #25 Matt
    July 13, 2008

    I hadn’t realized philos was supposed to be banned. Sorry for feeding the troll.

    Holbach @ 24, totally with you. That’s been the thing for me with this whole ridiculous cracker incident. The same people waving their arms in the air wailing about blasphemy are the same people who responded “so what, it’s just a cartoon” to those protesting the Danish editorial cartoons. It made reading a lot of the anti-PZ comments almost unbearable. I know why they have this mental dichotomy, but I will never truly understand why they’re not able to see it in themselves.

  26. #26 MH
    July 13, 2008

    Nice find, negentropyeater!

    Regarding the posts, “The hopeless inanity of Egnor” is a good one. I still bear the head->desk scars to prove it!

  27. #27 Dahan
    July 13, 2008

    No fair! I’ve been reading this blog for about a year. I read through all the good stuff and really good stuff to get to the excellent stuff and now PZ decides to just compile it here for the noobs. They should have to read everything too! Sigh…

  28. #28 Merkin J. Pus-Tart
    July 13, 2008

    While watching the video, one thing I couldn’t help but notice is the fact PZ only needs to shave his chin to have a great “friendly mutton chop.”

  29. #29 Bronze Dog
    July 13, 2008

    Little entry on TV Tropes you might find amusing.

    I hope that if FTL travel and sentient aliens exist, religiosity won’t be Earth’s hat when they get here.

  30. #30 JoeBlu
    July 13, 2008

    Opus today references ‘Idiot America’:

    http://www.salon.com/comics/opus/2008/07/13/opus/

  31. #31 SC
    July 13, 2008

    There is an interesting story which happened a few years ago between UMM Pres.Bruininks and Donohue :

    Thanks, neg. I haven’t yet read/seen that play – now I’m going to have to get my hands on it. He’s one of my favorites.

    “The playwright, Dario Fo, is a well-known Stalinist

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  32. #32 KC
    July 13, 2008

    OT, but as there really /is/ no topic… I opened my newspaper this morning to find yet another reason why Alaska is an awesome place to live – very very low religiousity compared to the nation as a whole.
    http://www.adn.com/life/religion/story/463303.html

    Sadly, the paper had to consult the usual godbots to explain how despite the findings, we really were more religious than it says we are. All `Father` this or `Reverend` that. They don’t want to read the writing on the wall.

    If you all want to play with the national data, broken up by state, here it is:
    http://religions.pewforum.org/
    In my clicking around, I can only find states that equal, none that exceed, AK’s irreverent attitude. That makes me rather pleased. :)

  33. #33 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    Matt @ 25 My sentiments exactly. You know, so much of this insane nonsense with that freaking cracker involves the mere lack of common sense. As I expressed in the post “godless Advertising”, all one has to do if they have any semblance of rational thought, is just to stop and ponder the obvious reality. As I posted at # 8: “It makes me remark that before religion there were no humans; and religion only came about because of humans. Doesn’t this say anything to people that are religious? Think, damn it!” As an atheist, I could not put it any simpler than that, and yet most minds just cannot grasp that obvious basic and blatant reality! There is no philosophy or deep thought rendered here; just simple thought processes that is possible to anyone capable of getting the crap out of their brains and just think about it! What is the damn problem? It just boggles the mind that this simple fact is not rendered and applied for it’s simplicity! I thought about that obvious fact years ago, and to this day I am floored by the unwillingness of religious- strickened minds that maybe have a spark of reason to just stop and ponder the freaking obvious reality! Damn, wake up!

  34. #34 Zeno
    July 13, 2008

    Omigawd. PZ is giving us a clip show!

    I’ll play along. Here is a little-noted nor much-remembered item on my suspicions that PZ (in addition to all of his more famous aspects) is also secretly a fashion consultant.

    I’m sure it’s really all about my distress at having been pinned down the weekend PZ breezed through northern California and I couldn’t get to the Pharyngulation in Berkeley, but I disguised it as heart-rending account of what happens when a chasm yawns between conception and execution in the high-strung world of fashion. The squid dress!

    [/blogwhore]

    Now to browse through PZ’s list of suggested readings. (Will there be a quiz?)

  35. #35 Jim1138
    July 13, 2008

    They’re insulting your Trophy Mother (TM)?!?

  36. #36 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    I listened to the The Geoffrey Simmons “debate” for the 2nd time yesterday. Simmons is a Discovery Institute Liar for Jesus. This debate was more strong evidence for the idea that there is nobody more stupid and nobody more dishonest than a creationist. PZ, with his vastly superior knowledge, made Simmons look like the ignorant fool he is.

  37. #37 pcarini
    July 13, 2008

    I had the strangest dream last night: Due to number of hits they were getting, Scienceblogs turned Pharyngula into a text-only layout with these absolutely horrendous colors… My relief this morning is offset by the fact that I actually dreamed about Pharyngula.

  38. #38 mandrake
    July 13, 2008

    just found this on the onion:
    http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/giant_undersea_cephalopods

    should have said “squid”, not “octopus”…sheesh.

  39. #39 ThirtyFiveUp
    July 13, 2008

    gyokusai #13

    Pharyngula has been a favorite of mine for three years. And because I have read Dr Myers’ extraordinary essays and informative science summarys plus the Friday cephalopods and the fact that we come for PZ and stay for the commenters. Usually the best comments in town, but when kerffluffles such as Expelled or Frackin Cracker occur, the comments become really strange.

    Stick around and you and I will again be saying a loud AMEN to a new PZ message like “The Proper Reverence to Those who Have Gone Before”

  40. #40 pcarini
    July 13, 2008

    Holbach,

    Sorry you missed Crackergate, those threads would’ve been a lot more fun with you there. Several of the posters really did just need a (verbal) smacking around.

  41. #41 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    Holbach – I wondered where you were. The threads are swamped with the most lack witted people I’ve ever seen. It looks like my home town moved onto PZ’s site!
    I agree with your points too Matt.
    Ol’ PZ really stirred them up this time!

  42. #42 pcarini
    July 13, 2008

    Kseniya @ #20

    Some people just can’t distinguish between a person and an idea, or between a threat made to a person and criticism of an idea.

    That’s exactly it. I’ll also add that some people can make those distinctions, but choose not to so that they can take offense. Too many of the religious these days are looking, in fact trying hard, to find things to take offense at – it’s very aggressive. “There are a billion of us, and we want to be angry at something!” It leads to silly things like Muslims taking offense at a puppy dog on police flyers in the U.K.

  43. #43 pcarini
    July 13, 2008

    Here’s the puppy story [dailymail.co.uk] I mentioned above.

  44. #44 Jeff
    July 13, 2008

    PZ, you’ve just passed Sam Harris on my list of heroes. That puts you right at the top.

    … and I’ve still only read about hats, Plan B, and Kansas.

  45. #45 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    Today’s religious news:

    KABUL, Afghanistan – A multi-pronged militant assault on a small, remote U.S. base killed nine American soldiers Sunday in one of the deadliest attacks on U.S. troops since the 2001 invasion, a Western official said.

  46. #46 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #25 – Matt – Your last sentiment really covers it. A good cartoon would be of the Danish cartoon head next to a cracker drawing and an equal sign between them, finished with a question mark. One is just the same and as stupid as the other.
    The thundering from the pulpit today against PZ and his blasphemers must be at a fever pitch. Ironic that it coincides with the pope landing in Oz to apologize for all the sex abuse.
    I’m passing on the sermon, and buzzing off to see Hell Boy soon. ;)

  47. #47 Jim P
    July 13, 2008

    So is this a science blog or a category error?

    I’m seeing lots and lots of social commentary and plenty of swearing but not much that would put pressure on the 2 digit crowd.

    Amazingly I found more science – post for post – here:
    http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com

  48. #48 Kristjan Wager
    July 13, 2008

    I must concur with ThirtyFiveUp both regarding the commenters here and regarding future posts from PZ.

    I used to be one of the top commenters (in volume, not quality) at the old Pharyngula site, but here I don’t post much, since someone else already has said what I wanted to say in a much better way.

  49. #49 Howard A. Landman
    July 13, 2008

    PZ, nice meeting you at the Denver Pharyngufest.

    You want more entertainment and distractions? Ask and ye shall receive …

    A first draft of a paper showing that, ignoring whether Dembski’s theory makes any philosophical sense at all, he certainly can’t even get the math right:

    http://www.riverrock.org/~howard/Dembski.pdf

    And a little ditty I wrote recently about the Last Universal Common Ancestor:

    LUCA

    My name is LUCA.
    I lived on the ocean floor
    near some hydrothermal vent
    or maybe in a tidepool by the shore
    and everything that’s now alive
    is my descendant that survived
    all the others went away (x3)

    I’m not the first life, no.
    That was way before my time.
    Things were so much simpler then,
    the very start of evolution’s climb.
    Born in a world of RNA,
    or some say protein, some say clay:
    No one knows just what it was (x3)

    Now if you feel inclined
    to explore your family tree
    you’re gonna have a real hard time
    tracing all the way back down to me
    ’cause horizontal gene transfer
    has left the path a tangled blur.
    Still it wouldn’t hurt to try (x3)

    (repeat first verse)

  50. #50 joeyess
    July 13, 2008

    philos said:

    I’m not sure if what occurred was a hate crime, but
    basically the Dr. wanted his ‘followers’ to harvest some
    religious artifacts for him,

    Religious artifacts?

    How old are those crackers you people eat, anyway??

  51. #51 jimmiraybob
    July 13, 2008

    philos – …basically the Dr. wanted his ‘followers’ to…

    Hey, that’s ILK to you buddy! Now I’m offended, outraged and just dag blamed peeved. This mister, is going on your permanent record. [shaking fist]

  52. #52 Capital Dan
    July 13, 2008

    It’s hard to pick a favorite out of all those, and you know what? I’m not even going to try.

    Other than that, though, I am just stunned how Catholics are so quick to play the wailing victim in all of this, and how these true loons crawled out of the woodwork to broadcast to the world what an intolerant, malicious horde they truly are.

    I think the kidnapping accusations were my favorite. I could not stop laughing at the notion of the poor, captive cracker falling victim to Stockholm Syndrome and forced to commit no end of bizarre, un-cracker-like atrocities so as to please its captors –kind of like Patty Hearst without the hair and automatic weapons.

  53. #53 joeyess
    July 13, 2008

    So is this a science blog or a category error?
    I’m seeing lots and lots of social commentary and plenty of swearing but not much that would put pressure on the 2 digit crowd.
    Amazingly I found more science – post for post – here:
    http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com
    Posted by: Jim P | July 13, 2008 2:09 PM

    Yeah, ok Jim, we’ll get right on that link. (rolls eyes) The amount of “science” on that blog is probably the reason it’s referred to as an outpost.

  54. #54 Kristjan Wager
    July 13, 2008

    So is this a science blog or a category error?

    It’s a blog at ScienceBlogs. Among other things, PZ blogs about science, and is generally considered one of the best communicators of what new (biological) science discoveries mean.

    I’m seeing lots and lots of social commentary and plenty of swearing but not much that would put pressure on the 2 digit crowd.

    Well, you obviously haven’t been looking very much have you? In recent days, a lot of posting has been about the stupidity of a certain group of religious people, but just look slightly further back, and you’ll see science posts aplenty. They’re mixed in with other posts though, so you might overlook them in your rush to complain about the content here.

    Amazingly I found more science – post for post – here:

    You seem to have a very interesting definition of science. But whatever rocks your boat. Why don’t you go there instead, and spare us your stupid comments?

  55. #55 Rey Fox
    July 13, 2008

    In other news, Fish & Wildlife liberates over 100 snakes from a gang of whackjobs.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25651899/

  56. #56 Capital Dan
    July 13, 2008

    Oh, Jim. This will not go well for you. If only you took a look around. Perhaps if you had not subjected us to such insipid whining.

    I feel sorry for you, Jim. You will be treated as you deserve to be, and that is going to be very hard for someone of your ego to handle.

  57. #57 MH
    July 13, 2008

    #47 “So is this a science blog or a category error?”

    ScienceBlogs is a community of bloggers who are generally (but not exclusively) working scientists. These are personal blogs, and can be about anything.

    “Amazingly I found more science – post for post – here:”

    Quality is more important than quantity. Have you even read any of PZ’s science posts, or are you just a troll?

  58. #58 Damian
    July 13, 2008

    Jim P said:

    So is this a science blog or a category error?

    I’m seeing lots and lots of social commentary and plenty of swearing but not much that would put pressure on the 2 digit crowd.

    Don’t worry Jim, this new fandangly technology does become a bit of a bugger as you get older:

    Molecular Biology: 117 posts

    Development: 173 posts

    And there are several other categories, as well, but I can’t link to them because this post will then be caught in the filter.

    Come back when you have finished with them.

  59. #59 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #55 – Thanks for that link. Unfortunately just busting Coots won’t even slow them up two heart beats.
    The FYI thread has gone completely insane now. There’s some idiot claiming the wafer IS gawd. That should keep the newbies happy. I’m done even looking at it. *grin*

  60. #60 Nerd of Redhead
    July 13, 2008

    I’ve been working my way through the archives. I just love it when PZ gets on a good roll.

    The fundamentalist Christians, whether Catholic or Protestant, seem to lose track of Christ’s golden rule and how to apply it to real life situations. They don’t appreciate being given a lesson on it by a blog run by an atheist. Good, but tedious work was done by the posters here the last few days.

  61. #61 Kseniya
    July 13, 2008

    Re: #47

    More science, perhaps, but how do you put up with the loquatious, yet shallow, rationalizations the prop up every post on that site?

    I’d gnaw off my left foot to get out of that blog.

  62. #62 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    I just noticed the little grey box on the left margin about the threats of violence. That’s really a sad thing to have to post due to the religious fruit cakes. What a bunch of hypocrites.
    The churches must no longer teach the Golden Rule, love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek or even thou shalt not kill. The gawdfestered mind is a hard thing to understand. :(

  63. #63 Andrés Diplotti
    July 13, 2008

    Jim P. wrote:

    So is this a science blog or a category error?

    I’m seeing lots and lots of social commentary and plenty of swearing but not much that would put pressure on the 2 digit crowd.

    after PZ Myers wrote:

    Since many of them can’t seem to get beyond the first article at the top of the page

    Oh, the humanity!

  64. #64 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    Here is something to add to the mass insane hysteria over “Crackergate”. Some comments from a book I read a few years back:
    “But no religion can survive on air alone. If you want to take hold of the lowbrow, popular imagination, you have to give them something tangible. Hence, every major religion ends up populating it’s world with demons and angels and cartoonish-like literal interpretations. And CRACKERS!
    “Your majesty, the rabble have no bread! Screw them: let them eat crackers!” “But crackers are too thin!” “Tell them to pee on them so that they will transubstantiate into something with more body.”

  65. #65 Matt
    July 13, 2008

    Ha! Nicely put, Andrés @ 63.

    I mean, the gall of PZ or any other academic to maintain a personal blog where they comment on subjects other than what they’re pursuing at university. Why didn’t he just stay up in his ivory tower, lording it over the peasants, instead of coming down and deigning to speak with them?

    …Hold on. There’s a double standard there someplace.

  66. #66 Milo Johnson
    July 13, 2008

    I’d love to visit the Planet of the Shoes. I’d think it would be populated mostly by women…

  67. #67 Benjamin Franklin
    July 13, 2008

    re philos @ #4

    Not only will they most probably be ignored, they more than likely won’t be comprehended.

    Somebody buy that guy a keyboard with some vowels on it!

  68. #68 Capital Dan
    July 13, 2008

    Somebody buy that guy a keyboard with some vowels on it!

    Posted by: Benjamin Franklin

    You know? Disemvoweling doesn’t really seem to work. I think the offending post’s content should be replaced with things like biscuit recipes and Hannah Montana lyrics.

  69. #70 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    #69, I’m not too interested in becoming a moron Catholic again. I have a problem with the police guarding the Jebus crackers, ready to shoot to kill anyone who refuses to eat it. Sorry but I don’t much care for your Catholic terrorism. I also have a problem with those little-boy-loving priests. Your religion seems to attract more than its fair share of perverts.

    The other problem I have with your idiotic medieval religion are your beliefs. The punishment for refusing to eat a Jebus cracker is eternal torture. I just don’t want to have anything to do with the sick-in-the-head assholes who could believe the repulsive nonsense of your religion.

  70. #71 RV
    July 13, 2008

    Top ten topics for the day at the site referenced in comment 47.

    1. God Is Not Dead Yet
    2. William F. Vallicella on God in the Declaration of Independence
    3. How To Lose Belly Fat
    4. The problem with Prozac
    5. The 11 Best Foods You Aren’t Eating
    6. Quote of the Week: “Here’s a fundamental irony: At about the time that the first empirical evidence is accumulating to support the Christian doctrine of dominion — that God has granted to the human race a delegated but effective authority over the planet, as evidenced by our impact on not just local but global environments — you see Christians shrinking back from the doctrine.” — Rusty Pritchard, ‘Dominion’ means dominion
    7. How are wines arranged in the store?
    8. Top Ten Things Kids Stick Up Their Noses
    9. What Happens To Your Body If You Drink A Coke Right Now?
    10. How English Is Evolving Into a Language We May Not Even Understand

    Whoa, science! Looks like a cousin to Reader’s Digest.

  71. #72 Carlie
    July 13, 2008

    Whoa, science! Looks like a cousin to Reader’s Digest.

    Do they at least cite the places their links come from? #5 is an article from the New York Times. Or are they plagiarists, too?

  72. #73 stanner
    July 13, 2008

    PZ, you sound like such a fool in that video. I wonder if you know just how much in the minority you and your views really are in this country. It sounds just like something Hitler or some Communist dictator would say. What the heck do YOU care, PX, what other people think about God? What do you care if they think about God during the week or go to church on Wednesday night or pray with their family before meals? You are such a communist mental lightweight fool.

  73. #74 Capital Dan
    July 13, 2008

    8. Top Ten Things Kids Stick Up Their Noses

    Whoa, science! Looks like a cousin to Reader’s Digest.

    Posted by: RV

    Well… There goes my dissertation.

    Curse you, Science!

  74. #75 Catholics Come Home
    July 13, 2008

    BobC,

    At least you’re mature about it.

    I don’t think any article said the police officers had the authority to shoot to kill over the Eucharist.

    The number of priests accused (proven guilty, confessed, acquitted, unfounded, etc.) is 4% of all priests…and that’s the exact portion of the general population that are pedophiles. (0.2% of priests have been proven abusers)

  75. #76 Jeff Schmidt
    July 13, 2008

    @73 stanner,
    - You do realize that the truth or falsity of a view isn’t determined by majority or minority support, yes?
    - Godwin’s Law. Look into it.
    - Also, by your “reasoning”, why should anyone care what YOU say? You’re just one person, the ultimate minority, so you must be wrong. Your very act of posting here says loud and clear that you, at least, DO care what PZ says. *boggle*
    - If PZ is a communist (honestly, really?) mental lightweight fool, why are you even engaging him? Why should you care? But that was never the point now was it…

  76. #77 MAJeff, OM
    July 13, 2008

    Posted by: stanner | July 13, 2008 5:00 PM

    That’s some concentrated stoopid.

  77. #78 David Marjanovi?, OM
    July 13, 2008

    Who goes to church on Wednesday night? Is that an American phenomenon or a Baptist phenomenon or something?

  78. #79 The Adamant Atheist
    July 13, 2008

    Proudly in the atheist minority here.

    It seems strange to say though. One generally doesn’t go around boasting about one’s disbelief in Santa Claus. But, Santa belief isn’t quite the same danger religious belief is, so it does become necessary to vocally identify one’s self.

    #73, we care because people like you justify stopping stem cell research, restricting family planning, persecuting homosexuals, teaching nonsense in classrooms, and a host of other malicious things by pointing to your faith. Religion’s consequences aren’t just personal. They spill over into society. Therefore, it is perfectly sensible that I and others should actively oppose unjustified beliefs.

  79. #80 DLC
    July 13, 2008

    David @ 78: It’s largely an american phenomenon.

    Man, if I didn’t have a sore mouth i’d love some of those crackers about now. they’re good when you’re hung over, too.

  80. #81 reuben
    July 13, 2008

    “The proper reverence due those who have gone before” was what got me reading this blog in the first place. Wonderful article, nice to see it posted again PZ.

  81. #82 Sauceress
    July 13, 2008

    Any “Crazy Cracker” t-shirts around for WYD?

  82. #83 Sauceress
    July 13, 2008

    Hmmm…ya think.. “Crazy Cracker Cult Member” would cause any problems?

  83. #84 maureen
    July 13, 2008

    Catholics Come Home @ 75,

    You’re missing the point entirely. It would not matter if only 0.00001% of catholic priests were paedophiles and, anyway, even the most rabid of atheists can accept that they are human, just like the rest of us.

    The anger and the campaigns are about the fact that the damage and confusion caused by the original abuse has many times been compounded by the way the church then behaved.

    Many times the children were simply not believed. When they could find someone to listen they were accused of sin they could not understand because they had attacked “this good man” who of course could do no harm! They were made not only to promise to say nothing but that option was forced on them as a religious vow. They were denied professional help.

    While each of those children was left confused and alone the priest was spirited away to another parish, neither his new congregation nor his bishop having any idea of what he had been up to. Many of those children as they matured would realise that Father P was probably up to his old tricks and there was absolutely nothing they could do about it.

    Not only did this all happen, it happened because it was church policy that it should be done that way – that the needs of the child and the law of the land should both be ignored to protect the “good name” of the church. In most cases it still is the policy – a stain which no amount of apology in Australia or anywhere else will take away.

    No wonder the victims of this policy are still angry, no wonder they and their supporters make a fuss – as they will until the catholic church proves that it can be trusted with the wellbeing of children. I’m sure you remember what Jesus said about the care of children.

    Now do you get it?

  84. #85 Catholics Come Home
    July 13, 2008

    Maureen,

    First, do you think the scenario you described detailed the fear of a child is any different when the abuser is a close family friend or a teacher? The scandal, as it played out, was not unique to the Church. The only difference, was people went after the Church. People sit on the sidelines while 1 in 10 children are sexually abused in public schools. Parents don’t notice that they children become mute and afraid of everything after some uncle or whoever abuses them and threatens their family if they tell anyone.

    Pretty much every organization that deals with children has failed miserably at protecting them at some point. What’s the attitude of the Department of Education? they won’t even address it because they know they are not a target. That is far more arrogant/deceptive/endangering than any position taken by the Church.

    I know exactly what Jesus said about care of children, punishment will be dealt.

    I get the impression that the only thing that will satisfy the most ardent critics is Law’s head on a stake, and that’s just not going to happen.

    So, no I guess I don’t “get it”. If you can clarify why sexual abuse in every other sector of society get a veritable free pass, I’d appreciate it.

    But tell us Maureen, why did you leave the Church. Check out my weblink to find out what the Church is really all about, I’m sure you have more than a few misconceptions.

    “There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church– which is, of course, quite a different thing.
    -Bishop Fulton Sheen

  85. #86 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    It doesn’t matter if a priest likes to rape little boys or not. Every priest who has told a child that the Catholic beliefs are true, and not medieval superstitions, is a compulsive liar. Lying to children is child abuse. There’s no excuse for it.

    Not only am I never coming back to your disgusting religion, I plan to ridicule Catholics for the rest of my life. I will never let Catholics forget they are no better than Muslim terrorists.

    Armed police guarding worthless crackers. Totally insane. Catholics are morons.

  86. #87 maureen
    July 13, 2008

    Catholics Come Home,

    First – my own experience of religion on an institutional or on a personal basis is none of your damn business and nothing whatsoever to do with the matter under discussion.

    I would be the first to agree that, possibly because the dominant religion is in so many cases very confused about human sexuality, we have for many generations failed to take paedophilia seriously enough or to act effectively when it occurs.

    Not all of us have the excuse – and it is a very poor excuse – that god in the form of the Vatican says that this is how we must handle it and the needs of the child can go hang.

    As for education I can only speak from the UK experience. Here all persons who have responsibility for children have a legal duty to report both events and suspicions. Teachers will use their professional know-how to decide whether to call first the police or the child protection specialists at the local authority or the national child protection charity. They are then expected to cooperate with any investigation. They can be disciplined if they fail to act in the first place and if they refuse to cooperate fully.

    No, it is not perfect yet – probably never will be – because a powerful and manipulative adult will sometimes tell a more convincing tale than a small and confused child who perhaps lacks the vocabulary to describe what has happened. We also have a register of all who have been convicted of any sexual offence.

    I see that you write from the USA. If your country has not yet achieved even this imperfect level, well, you have an election coming up in November. Use that opportunity to harry your potential representatives, make the wellbeing of children an election issue. And do stop whining.

    I have an idea. Let each of us take responsibility for our own inadequacies and our own failings and let us stop thrashing about to find someone else who is doing things as badly or, perhaps, even worse. I’m willing to stick by that but I’m not sure you have the ego vs. humility balance quite right for that yet. I will keep you in the “still doesn’t get it” pile.

  87. #88 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    The suckers of the Catholic religion, when they put their hard earned money into the collection basket, can watch that money go to pay for lawsuits, because the leaders of their idiotic church, when shown evidence their priests are perverts, send them off to another town to rape more little boys.

    Did I mention Catholics are assholes?

  88. #89 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    Catholics recently proved beyond any doubt they have no moral values at all. They also proved they are hopelessly stupid, but everyone already knew that.

    Because one person refused to eat a worthless tasteless cracker, thousands of Catholics have been trying to get a student expelled and a professor fired. They want to ruin people’s lives to defend a cracker.

    Of course both victims of this Catholic terrorism were threatened with death, and the death threats keep coming in.

    Did I mention Catholics are assholes?

  89. #90 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #85 – Don’t you dare start in on your goddamned guilt bullshit and proselytizing here! I went and looked at your website Mr. Donation. Lay off Maureen you sick bastard. Take your catholic bible and your skirt wearing child molesters and shove them up your pope hole.
    Misconceptions about the catholic church? Like what? Genocide? Witch burning? Slavery? Homophobia? Which one?

  90. #91 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #87 – Sorry Maureen, I see our posts got jumbled in the time line of the thread. Good shot to the nads on your own! I hadn’t seen it.

  91. #92 maureen
    July 13, 2008

    No probs, Patricia!

  92. #93 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    I remember in high school, wasting my Sunday mornings going to Catholic church, and hearing every time my shit-for-brains pastor demanding more money. I finally figured out the Catholic church is not a religion. It’s a racket. A big money making organization. It’s all money money money.

    Did I mention Catholics are assholes?

  93. #94 clinteas
    July 13, 2008

    stanner,the fly-by troll hate-talked:

    //You are such a communist mental lightweight fool. //

    Back when I lived in Germany,you knew you had hit a nerve and someone had run out of arguments and felt personally threatened,when they started calling you a communist and any kind of personal insults and asked you to emigrate to the East(communist Germany,Russia etc) LOL.

    As for Catholics stay home,

    Ive heard this “child abuse in public schools” song a few thousand cracker threads back,you the same fuckwit? Same song,different CD? Maureeen,excellent job of debating the guy,but its all been attempted before,and there is just a closed mind there,no argument to be had.

  94. #95 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    Hey BobC – Have you heard? Catholics are assholes! Ya know what, in my sadly worn bag of Old Believers tricks I might just have one or two tired ol’ Copperheads… I’ll bet between the two of us we could figure out how to shove a snake up their catholic @ssholes! No sense in wasting a perfectly good viper.

  95. #96 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    catholics get lost @ 85 You have the freaking gaul to quote that deranged moron, that shit-god-for-brains asshole Fulton Sheen! The one who mesmerized the religious dolts on Tv for many years, who played at being poignant with a piece of chalk on a blackboard, scribbling inane insanities to morons who could not think themselves out of his pathetic attempt to render understandable what was beyond the ken of a certified idiot? That piece of shit of a fraud who knew a moronic rabble the moment he signed his name to the blackboard and made them all swoon with abject incomprehension of deranged crap spewing from his demented brain. That was one of the lowest ebbs of nascent TV until the advent of the deranged crappola of the current boob tube evangelicals. I rate Sheen as one of the most pernicious slatherers of religious crap of the twentieth century. You have the nerve to quote this subhuman of subterranean dreck, as if he was something to be admired and quoted. His “Life Was Not Worth Living”, considering the insane crap he spread to already deranged minds.

  96. #97 Fernando Magyar
    July 13, 2008

    Here’s an example of Religious Insanity a few orders of greatness beyond that of Catholicism.

    Snake-handling pastor arrested

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/13/snake.bust.ap/index.html

    Handling snakes is practiced in a handful of fundamentalist churches across Appalachia, based on the interpretation of Bible verses saying true believers can take up serpents without being harmed.

    Having grown up in Brazil I had more than my fair share of encounters with venomous snakes and even learned to handle a few of them. I never liked the idea of killing them for no reason. Upon occasion I found it necessary to relocate them, as such I developed a very healthy respect for these creatures. Anyone who handles them without some training and knowledge of their habits is completely nuts!

    This list is truly unbeleivable:

    Most were taken from the Middlesboro home of Gregory James Coots, including 42 copperheads, 11 timber rattlesnakes, three cottonmouth water moccasins, a western diamondback rattlesnake, two cobras and a puff adder.

    Holy shit! Cobras?! I think I’ll stick to cracker desecration. As for Mr. Coots I hope they put him away for a long long time.

  97. #98 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #85 – Catholics Come Home – Come on coward. Uppity women calling you out got ya skeerit? Yellow belly, a weiner dog could piss over your head.

  98. #99 Fernando Magyar
    July 13, 2008

    Umm that would be “orders of magnitude” not orders of greatness. In Portugues one would say “ordem de grandeza”
    which my tired brain translated literally.

  99. #100 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    catholics get lost @ 85 Another item for your quoted retard Fulton J Sheen; F J S stands for fucking jeebus shit. Now will you call your imaginary shit god down to smite me after calling it and it’s shit peddlar Sheen shit?

  100. #101 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    Now that Etha,OM is back, the buy-bull quotin’ could get ugly. I suspect she has as many medals for Scripture Knowledge as myself & Bertie Wooster. *smirk* So I’ll bust out with the snake bit, just in case anyone doesn’t know what dumbasses SOME of us Americans can be – pointing to myself first.
    “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
    Mark 16:17-18
    From memory. Ha! I’ll bet PZ’s blasphemers could mop the floor with the christians & catholics (assholes) in a scripture contest.

  101. #102 Catholics Come Homer
    July 13, 2008

    Let’s see…BobC, Patricia, Maureen, and Holbach:

    are any of you over 15? Control your tempers. I though this site was about reason and logic, not spouting ad hominems and vitriol.

    I actually had something to do, so I couldn’t lie in wait at the blog, silly me.

    And you’re surprised when people don’t like atheists.

    BobC…pulling a Richard Dawkins, I thought you’d know better.

    You’re an impressive lot. I’m out.

  102. #103 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    morons come together @ 85 Notice the new moniker I slathered you with? I also checked and puked at your site which is certainly good to bring in more deranged morons who think their god will bring them everlasting joy after they die. No, they will have everlasting insanity as long as they live, and when they die and are consumed by those intelligently designed worms, no one will look down on them and remark that they have no place to go. At least their minds will be free of insanity since that is also not going anywhere. Can you face this blatant reality without your imaginary shit god? There they lie; their lives started with a wimper, and ended without a prayer. Can you begin to fathom that there is no imaginary shit god, only the one that is formed in your irrational brains? So when you die, get your god, snicker, to let you come back and tell us there is life again after the worms. Please do, as I wait with bated breath and much snickering!

  103. #104 Coralius
    July 13, 2008

    To Fernando @ #97:

    I grew up near one of the oldest snake-handling churches in West Virginia, the quintessential US Appalachian state. They usually made the local news once or twice a year, usually during a slow news day. They’re an interesting study in religious compartmentalization.

    For example:

    It’s in no way formal, but they do get some training on how to handles snakes, if through cultural osmosis if nothing else. But people do get bitten. Often. And occasionally die from it. And this is considered God’s will, since treating them with medicine would go against their creed.

    Another intersting tidbit about them is that they also drink arsenic. Of course, it’s diluted down to the point that it’s essentially homeopathic.

    See the dichotomy there? Getting bitten and dying is okay, because either your faith wasn’t strong enough, or God just willed it so. But we’re only going to drink really, really dilute arsenic.

    That attitude probably has something to do with the fact that you can often survive a snake bite untreated. In fact, the head of the church I grew up near has been bitten several dozen times. Possibly more. But drinking concentrated arsenic and gonig untreated is deadly.

    Period.

    I guess it’s just proof positive that the terminally religious can still think their way out of a wet paper bag. Barely.

  104. #105 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    We are an impressive lot.
    I didn’t pull Dawkins on you, you sniveling, bed wetting sissy.I pulled your bible.
    You bet you’re out – coward.
    Got any reason or logic? Let’s see it.
    Show me something, member of the child molesters club, trot out your god – then I’ll fall down on my knees, worship him and make a donation.
    Until you give me your proof – stick it up your pope hole.

  105. #106 maureen
    July 13, 2008

    Catholics Come HomeR @ 105,

    Was that a Freudian slip?

    Anyway, if that’s you wandering about your website with the idiot grin then I’m old enough to be your mother. I’m just very glad I’m not.

    By-eeee!

  106. #107 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    Catholics Come Home – Are you the best the Vatican has?
    HAAAA!
    You don’t have enough brains, logic or scripture knowledge to play rumpy pumpy with one of my chickens.
    Run away!!!!!

  107. #108 BobC
    July 13, 2008

    “people don’t like atheists.”

    That would explain all the death threats.

    Go eat a jesus cracker Catholic moron.

  108. #109 Holbach
    July 13, 2008

    Maureen @ 106 I think you are getting your numbers mixed up. Are you sure you are referring to # 105? Anyway, don’t try to be polite to those morons. No, not “catholics come home”, but “Morons R Us”. Politeness should not be offered to creatures who peddle insanity, and whose churches are repositories of child molesters, whose actions they almost insinuate are ordained by their imaginmary shit god. The slimy retarded curs! No civility to these shit morons!

  109. #110 Patricia
    July 13, 2008

    #102 – Catholics Come Home – Come on Mr. Donation – show us heathens what your god is capable of. You focus in on Maureen with your sicky sweet ‘why did you leave the church’? You creep!
    Then when we tell you to put up or shut up you run away. Coward.
    Where’s your god, troll?

  110. #111 btb
    July 13, 2008

    catholic come home@85

    “Pretty much every organization that deals with children has failed miserably at protecting them at some point. What’s the attitude of the Department of Education? they won’t even address it because they know they are not a target. That is far more arrogant/deceptive/endangering than any position taken by the Church.”

    WTF? You allege a public school pedophilia cover-up conspiracy with no evidence and then claim that it’s worse than the known and documented high level catholic cover-up conspiracy! You sir, are a shiny example of the hypocritical demented fuckwittery called catholicism.

  111. #112 andyo
    July 13, 2008

    Hello, my catholic friends!

    I heard your girls are hot! How can I become one of you? Wait… you say I have to believe the cracker is WHAT?

    Hmm… how hot are your girls again?

  112. #113 maureen
    July 14, 2008

    You’re right, Holbach, it is 102. I’m very abstemious with postit notes and had written the number down across another message already there, idiot that I am. Besides, it is almost 5 in the morning here.

  113. #114 Patricia
    July 14, 2008

    Come on Catholics Come Home, do you follow the scriptures? Do you offer up “two turtles or two young pigeons” as a burnt offering for each one of your wives or daughters as atonement for her uncleanness during her period?
    Leviticus 15:19-23
    Lets go buddy. No Dawkins, Hitchens or PZ, I slap your face and call you a coward. Let’s go – scripture for scripture.

  114. #115 Patricia
    July 14, 2008

    Dang. Just when I was about to go all biblical the coward ran away. I didn’t even get to defiled, filthiness, perversions, menstruous, abominations or the unclean. We could have discussed the book of Ezekiel, but NOOO he fled.

  115. #116 Fernando Magyar
    July 14, 2008

    #115 Patricia, I went and Googled Leviticus 15:19-23

    http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=Lev+15:19-23

    Anyone who touches her bed must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.

    Now that’s what I call immaculate logic.

    BTW I really like you! :-)

  116. #117 Patrick
    July 14, 2008

    Catholics Come Homer: http://www.myteespot.com/images/Images_d/d_8347.jpg ’nuff said (though no insult meant to the intelligence of Mr. Simpson of Evergreen Terrace, Springfield)

  117. #118 Holbach
    July 14, 2008

    morons go home @ 102 Are you insane? You state: “I thought this site was about reason and logic”. There is no discussion of reason and logic when religion is part of the debate. As we all are aware, even you demented religionists, all that insane crap is based on faith, not on reason and logic as you presume to interject in your pathetic attempt to instill a semblance of rational discussion at this site. Sit your imaginary god at your side and we will continue the debate. No god, no debate. I will not engage my brain cells with morons who insist that they are discussing sensible matters with imaginary entities. Keep your nonsense to your “Morons At Home” site and don’t think we will amuse you with senseless repartee.

  118. #119 Patricia
    July 14, 2008

    #116 – I’ll take that as a compliment, thankyou.
    Poor little Catholics Come Home must have tucked his tail and RAN yiking home.

  119. #120 Holbach
    July 14, 2008

    Patricia @ 119 Yes, guess the “Morons Take The Gas” hightailed from the site and will probably never be heard from again. He’s out alright; down and out, until the next religious cretin comes on to annoy us. Hey, we’ll just offer him crackers and take it from there!

  120. #121 pcarini
    July 15, 2008

    Anyone who touches her bed must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening.

    They’ve totally got the order all wrong. Why would you wash your clothes and bathe before spending the day being unclean? I’d totally do the unclean thing first…

  121. #122 pcarini
    July 15, 2008

    I just used “totally” twice in a single post. Even though both were sarcastic, that’s a bad sign ;(

  122. #123 Hap
    July 17, 2008

    CCH (#69 et al.),

    Your church lost much of its credibility when it decided not only that priests who molested children under its aegis should not be prosecuted or prevented molesting children, but that they shouldn’t be transferred instead to districts unaware of their previous problems, thus giving the molesters access to a new crop of youth. In most cases, schools and government aren’t complicit in the molestation of youth by their employees, because they act to prevent further such behavior when made aware of it, and thus aren’t held accountable for their employees’ behavior. The difference is why you have to scream at ex-Catholic people to “come home”, and why lots of dioceses got sued and lost millions. When you sell out those who trusted you for power, or decide that the people who trust in you are expendable, it gets hard to find more people willing to trust you. Foaming at the mouth over communion wafers isn’t going to change that, since the church seems unwilling to do anything to make people think that it is any less willing to discard its members than before.

    Oh, and choosing an unrepentant ex-Nazi to run your church doesn’t really help either.

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