Pharyngula

A quickie from Michael Edmondson

You may remember Edmondson as the creator of the Beware the Believers viral video — he took a little time to immortalize a recent event.

Richard Dawkins gets lucky in this one.

i-d39600145195ee03d3b0269c41ae0277-PZ_Eucharist.jpg

Comments

  1. #1 skyotter
    July 25, 2008

    no squid hat? aw

  2. #2 Jason Failes
    July 25, 2008

    ow…

  3. #3 King of Ferrets
    July 25, 2008

    Hmmm… it seems to be missing something.

  4. #4 chancelikely
    July 25, 2008

    It’s no Dr. Horrible, but it’s not bad.

  5. #5 Remy-Grace
    July 25, 2008

    oh joy, here we go again

  6. #6 Mark B
    July 25, 2008

    What, the film maker didn’t come up with a humorous depiction of Mohammed being tortured? I’m sure you’re about to be peppered with accusations of favortism toward Muslims …

  7. #7 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    I’ve pasted pictures of Pimp Dennett over the real pictures in all of the copies of his books on my shelf.

  8. #8 Brownian, OM
    July 25, 2008

    Wow PZ, the good Dawktor’s friend is one hell of a hot little number. Your “J. ‘Uncle’ Giggles Flintstone” laugh isn’t bad, either.

  9. #9 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    What, the film maker didn’t come up with a humorous depiction of Mohammed being tortured?

    He did, it’s the -scene missing- part.

  10. #10 Cthulhu
    July 25, 2008

    Heheheheheeeee

    Go Dawkins!

  11. #11 charfles
    July 25, 2008

    Wow the Dawkins part was frightening.

  12. #12 Max Verret
    July 25, 2008

    Re: Remy

    Again and again. I wouldn’t be surprised if Donohue didn’t belch again with this picture. As I noted on another thread, the last time he belched he did it in the face of the Board of Regents for the U. of Minnesota. On that Board you have Clyde Allen was was Vice-President of Concordia College and Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary. I don’t see where either of those guys are going to find PZ’s antics amusing.

  13. #13 Zeno
    July 25, 2008

    Oh, that was a rusty nail in PZ’s hand! I at first thought it was a long cigarette holder. (Don’t all supervillains have those?)

  14. #14 Logicel
    July 25, 2008

    My crane rocks, your skyhook sucks.
    _____

    very catchy.

  15. #15 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    Oh, that was a rusty nail in PZ’s hand! I at first thought it was a long cigarette holder. (Don’t all supervillains have those?)

    Only if you’re a Republican.

  16. #16 Dutch Delight
    July 25, 2008

    I find it very entertaining that the guy who was hired to make some kind of viral for Expelled displays more understanding of the subjects he depicts then most creationists.

    I mean, I’ve never ever heard a creationist tackle the skyhook vs. crane issue, let alone show that they are familiar with the concepts. Same thing with some of the philosophical references he tucked away in his original work for Expelled.

  17. #17 Steve_C
    July 25, 2008

    That NUN was hot!!! Are they all like that??? I wanna go to Catholic school.

  18. #18 Norman Doering
    July 25, 2008

    I at first thought it was a long cigarette holder. (Don’t all supervillains have those?)

    No, just the big breasted females in evening gowns villians.

  19. #19 Dustin. Old Thread, Redux.
    July 25, 2008

    *clears throat*
    OMG U GUISE I THINK THAT TREY PARKER AND MATT STONE MADE THIS CUZ IT IS JUST SO FUNNY OH MY GOD!

  20. #20 Felicia
    July 25, 2008

    Okay, I know what I’m going to be for Halloween this year.

  21. #21 Brownian, OM
    July 25, 2008

    No, just the big breasted females in evening gowns villians.

    Like the ones who are too important to be captured?

  22. #22 Will K.
    July 25, 2008

    Science will always prevail over religion in terms of excellent belts.

  23. #23 Julie
    July 25, 2008

    you people are disgusting. how dare you insult the Catholic Church? It is the only true church and I am proud to say that. I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.

  24. #24 Mena
    July 25, 2008

    Hey, that’s not Romana!!! ;^)

  25. #25 Norman Doering
    July 25, 2008

    That NUN was hot!!! Are they all like that??

    Hell no! Most of them look like this:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jwsk/91947265/

    Also, google Mother Teresa.

  26. #26 Dutch Delight
    July 25, 2008

    Hi Julie, you seem upset?

  27. #27 Brownian, OM
    July 25, 2008

    you people are disgusting. how dare you insult the Catholic Church? It is the only true church and I am proud to say that. I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people

    You don’t rot in hell stupid, you burn! Try to pay attention next time you go to mass, you prideful, prissy simpleton.

  28. #28 MAJeff, OM
    July 25, 2008

    and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.

    Someone’s getting tingly thinking about eternal torture.

  29. #29 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    #12, I predict the same. BD will keep squawking IFF it generates national attention. He’s other blogs that have made the same host-threats but don’t have a national readership. Not only that, I sent my letter directly to the Catholic League, and got no response at all. The more this goes on, the more they show up as attention whores.

  30. #30 Chris Bell
    July 25, 2008

    Ha! Watch the fourth YouTube video after this one ends. The event set to the music of 2girls1desecration.

    By the way, I preemptively nominate myself for Order of the Molly because I got the last comment on the desecration thread (besides PZ shutting it down).

  31. #31 Capital Dan
    July 25, 2008

    you people are disgusting. how dare you insult the Catholic Church? It is the only true church and I am proud to say that. I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.

    Posted by: Julie

    Translated: “You’re having fun there. Stop that. Fun is against Jesus. Stop it right now, I say. There will be no fun antics or shenanigans so long as I’m here. This is not a hootenanny. You must stop having fun since I believe in Jesus and am well within my rights to tell you not to have any fun whatsoever.”

  32. #32 SSiE
    July 25, 2008

    Well, I hope enough people get to see this before YouTube removes it – I’ve just tried to watch all the related video suggestions that appear after this one, and each one gives the telling little “This video is no longer available” message. I suspect it has more to do with the Quran than the cracker; we’ve all seen that Muslims have no sense of humour when it comes to cartoons and caricatures.

  33. #33 Norman Doering
    July 25, 2008

    Like the ones who are too important to be captured?

    That’s just one of many examples. Remember Cruella De Vil, the villainess from “One Hundred and One Dalmatians,” she was an older version of the cigarette holder and evening gown villainess. I should probably check, but didn’t Pussy Galore or Octopussy from James Bond do the cigarette holder?

  34. #34 john
    July 25, 2008

    “Academic freedom is not the issue: academic malpractice is. For example, Section 10.21 (b) of UMN’s Tenure Code explicitly says that a tenured faculty member can be terminated or suspended for ‘unprofessional conduct which severely impairs a faculty member’s fitness in a professional capacity.’

    “In 2001, this part of the Tenure Code was invoked against a professor at UMN because he had images of child porn on his computer. It should now be invoked against Myers. It strains credulity to maintain that Christian students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion.”

    …The storm begins…

  35. #35 Capital Dan
    July 25, 2008

    Hi Julie, you seem upset?

    Posted by: Dutch Delight

    I’d say more uptight than upset. It’s Friday, and what with crazy gas prices and all, Jebus ain’t exactly banging on her door begging to knock the cobwebs out of her dusty, unused, Catholic baby-maker.

  36. #36 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    ignoring. He’s ignoring other blogs.
    shit.

    and #17–trust me, you don’t wanna go to catholic school. Our nuns told us those habits are sacred,(like Mormon underwear i guess)and they never,”never” take them off, even to bathe. Srly. My response to that got me in a lot of trouble. LOL

  37. #37 Chris Bell
    July 25, 2008

    Yes John, you’re right. This was the same as committing a felony.

  38. #38 M.Filla
    July 25, 2008

    Quote Montgomery Burns:

    “EEEEEXCELLENT!”

  39. #39 JoeBlu
    July 25, 2008

    Hooray! I’ve always like the Edmondson videos, and kudos to him for staying cagey on his actual feelings for so long. He does a great job with these things. Also, there’s just something about Pimp Dennett …

  40. #40 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    In 2001, this part of the Tenure Code was invoked against a professor at UMN because he had images of child porn on his computer. It should now be invoked against Myers.

    If you really think that those two things are equally repugnant then, please, go kill yourself.

  41. #41 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    #31 you’re on solid theological ground there. We discussed whether working on our cars was a sin on Sunday, when it might not be unavoidable. The nuns ruled that “If you enjoy it, it’s a sin.”

  42. #42 Woobegone
    July 25, 2008

    “I suspect it has more to do with the Quran than the cracker”

    This whole *thing* is about a cracker. This is *cracker-gate*. It couldn’t *be* more crackery.

  43. #43 john
    July 25, 2008

    Policy Statement
    The University of Minnesota’s Mission Statement commits us to “establish and nurture an environment that actively acknowledges and values diversity and is free from racism, sexism, and other forms of prejudice, intolerance or harassment.” Members of the U of M community have the right not to be discriminated against by any agent or organization of the U of M for reasons of actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, national origin, gender, gender identification, age, marital status, disability, public assistance status, veteran status and/or sexual orientation. The University of Minnesota, Morris does not tolerate such incidents and will seek resolution of such matters.

    Definitions
    Bias Incident: Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, national origin, gender, gender identification, age, marital status, disability, public assistance status, veteran status and/or sexual orientation can be forms of discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or resentment in others, or that endanger the health, safety, and welfare of a member(s) of the University community, even when presented as a joke

    the storm intensifies…

  44. #44 Bob L
    July 25, 2008

    None of the nuns at my Catholic school looked like this, all the hot chicks dig scientists.

    John @ “. It strains credulity to maintain that Christian students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion.”

    The same argument can be made against any self avowed Christian since discrimination against unbelievers is a basic tenant of the religion.

    Of course it also says things like “Judge not lest ye be judged” John but you really could careless what that book says because like us, you know it is not real, right?

  45. #45 S.Scott
    July 25, 2008

    @27 – LMAO! … I think I just peed a little!! ;-)LOL!!

  46. #46 David Lewis
    July 25, 2008

    Re;#34. It strains credibility that the person quoted thinks it’s right to sack a lecturer on the basis that the lecturer might discriminate against a group of students. There is no evidence that Prof. Myers has discriminated against Christian students, ergo there is no case to answer. And as for the attempt to portray desecrating crackers and bad fiction as being offences of similar magnitude to possessing child porn…sheer stupidity.

    I assume the person quoted was Mr Bill Donahue. In which case he seems to be starting to sound almost as swivel-eyed and hysterical as another Bill these days – Bill O’Reilly. Either that, or I’ve been listening too much to Keith Olbermann, like the filthy librul that I am.

  47. #47 jj
    July 25, 2008

    @#34
    “his part of the Tenure Code was invoked against a professor at UMN because he had images of child porn on his computer. It should now be invoked against Myers.”

    Are you seriously comparing what PZ did to child pornography? PZ put a nail through a cracker = Not illegal, Child Pornography = Illegal, seems a little different to me

    “It strains credulity to maintain that students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion”

    Well luckily P.Z. isn’t a theology Professor so students beliefs shouldn’t come up in his lectures.

  48. #48 True Bob
    July 25, 2008

    Making the nooze again, PZ:

    Story here

  49. #49 Steve_C
    July 25, 2008

    I wanna be at UMM when the hot Nuns come to protest! What’s the penalty for Nun desacration?

  50. #50 Todd
    July 25, 2008

    It strains credulity to maintain that Christian students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion.”

    Is it just me, or do all the recent trolls suffer from a complete lack of irony? That’s got to be pretty debilitating going through life without irony.

  51. #51 Capital Dan
    July 25, 2008

    Poor John.

    So much irrational hatred and no way to let it out.

  52. #52 True Bob
    July 25, 2008

    What’s the penalty for Nun desacration (sic)?

    Same thing Dawkins is getting.

  53. #53 Screechy Monkey
    July 25, 2008

    “It strains credulity to maintain that Christian students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion.”

    PZ has been teaching Christian (and Muslim, etc.) students for years now, without any problems I’ve heard of — and no doubt there’s at least one or two students every year who would love to catch him in some act of in-class discrimination. So the only thing that strains credulity is this speculation of future persecution.

    Does it also strain credulity to maintain that atheist students can expect fair treatment from theist professors who write pro-religion blogs, books, op-ed pieces, etc.?

    Professors are (so I’m told) human beings. They’re going to have views on religion, politics, and all sorts of other controversial subjects. Firing any professor who expresses such views is not going to leave you with a faculty of folks who are completely neutral on every issue, because those people don’t exist. It’s just going to leave you with a faculty of people who are too scared to speak their minds. Which, of course, is the real goal of those calling for PZ’s head.

  54. #54 marc buhler
    July 25, 2008

    Since god(s) does/do not exist, this missing scene represented all there is to represent about *that* version of “god” (or “dog” to dislexics), so it *is* a correct representation of the figurehead of Islam, so Edmondson and Myers are *both* in trouble here.

    Will the vid make the top played list?

  55. #55 Ghost of Minnesota
    July 25, 2008

    I love PZ’s evil cackle.

  56. #56 calladus
    July 25, 2008

    hm. I would have thought PZ’s maniacal laughter would have been deeper, not so much in the falsetto range.

    And it should have squishy, squeltchy sounds in it too – like the sounds of tentacles coming loose from the muddy, watery depths after eons of sleep.

  57. #57 Sastra
    July 25, 2008

    Very clever. Again. Kudos to Edmondson. And this time we don’t have to play games trying to guess who did this :)

    Now all we have to wonder about is whether the Dawk slipped him a few bucks under the table to arrange his “punishment.”

  58. #58 Benjamin Franklin
    July 25, 2008

    Chris Bell-

    Please see my post #7 at this thread-
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/baylor_rededicates_itself_to_b.php

    bf

  59. #59 Chris Bell
    July 25, 2008

    Thanks Ben! I couldn’t believe I slipped that last comment in! A moment’s hesitation, and the moment would have been lost.

  60. #60 The Adamant Atheist
    July 25, 2008

    Hey John,

    The only storm is in your delusional head.

    Wanna bet that PZ weathers this “storm” and goes on to successfully ridicule your stupid religion for years to come?

  61. #61 Screechy Monkey
    July 25, 2008

    True Bob @48: Thanks for posting the link to that article.

    My favorite part is at the end: “Many rank-and-file Roman Catholics do not endorse the [Catholic] league, which has no formal affiliation with the Catholic Church, because they consider it a reactionary orthodox group run by publicity-seekers. It’s [sic] president, Bill Donohue, has gone on record with inflammatory remarks about Jews, Muslims and gays.”

    I’d love to see something like that in every article that insists on quoting that professional victim Donohue.

  62. #62 CS Lewis Jr.
    July 25, 2008

    Interesting how the folks at the Dawkins forum seemed to not get the Believers rap. They basically didn’t think it was funny and were obsessing over whose side the film was taking. I thought it was taking the piss out of everyone and was more silliness than satire. It was definitely working on more than one layer at once and has everyone arguing over who the target is. I do think the Expelled people definitely got pwn3d when they financed it. The video seems good-naturedly absurd and I buy it when Edmonson says he “just wanted to make something [he] thought was funny.” Fair play to you, sir!

  63. #63 Shawn Wilkinson
    July 25, 2008

    #43: Some points.

    A case of discrimination per UMM’s code would have to involve the following
    * PZ physically harmed a student due to prejudice
    * PZ physically harmed a student’s property due to prejudice
    * PZ verbally abused a student due to prejudice
    * PZ graded a student based on prejudice
    * PZ, in some fashion, taunted students due to prejudice

    Is what PZ did the embodiment of “open liberalness” sought by the mssion statement? Not really. His actions don’t really hold up as well. But it doesn’t infringe on any policies warrant of being removed as a faculty member.

    My catholic friend said something very powerful to me the other day. “All this silliness over a stupid cracker”. I guess the lives of some Catholics are so boring they must unite under a silly banner to protect even more silliness.

  64. #64 Taz
    July 25, 2008

    Hey John and the rest of you dipshits, did it ever occur to you that PZ has a lot of backers here? If something were to happen to him, it would unleash a wave of host desecration beyond anything in your worse nightmares! In other words, lay off the prof. or the cracker gets it.

  65. #65 terrylong
    July 25, 2008

    “Jesus and Mo” cartoon has it’s own take on the cracker madness. Four days starting with

    http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/09/wafer/

    …or should it be Krackers and Mo?

  66. #66 Shawn Wilkinson
    July 25, 2008

    What’s sad is, you can’t really tell if the cracker was a true host or just a cracker. For all we know, PZ ordered the Jesus-to-go boxes, drank the juice and nailed a cracker that hadn’t been enchanted by prayed to by a priest. He can only go by the word of the person who gave the host to him, and so we can only go by this person’s words.

    Isn’t it amazing how everything reduces to what people say? PZ says this is a host. The giver says it is a host. The priest says this cracker is the body of Christ. Jesus said remember him when you eat bread.

    Ugh. I say whatever.

  67. #67 The Adamant Atheist
    July 25, 2008

    #64–

    Hear hear, atheists and skeptics are capable of solidarity too.

    By the way, doesn’t Jesus instruct his followers not to resist evildoers in the Bible? It’s a point-blank, unambiguous instruction. Seems like they’re defying their Lord and Savior by resisting desecration.

  68. #68 Patricia
    July 25, 2008

    I love it!

  69. #69 John
    July 25, 2008

    So much for Bill Donahue’s demands and empty threats:

    UNIV. OF MINN. REFUSES TO PENALIZE MYERS

    July 25, 2008

    The Chancellor of the University of Minnesota, Morris (UMN) released a statement today regarding the intentional desecration of the Eucharist by Professor Paul Z. Myers. “I believe that behaviors that discriminate against or harass individuals or groups on the basis of their religious beliefs are reprehensible,” said Jacqueline Johnson. Importantly, she added that the school’s Code of Conduct prohibits such behavior. However, she also stressed that academic freedom allows faculty members “to speak or write as a public citizen without institutional discipline or restraint….” Nowhere did she say Myers would be disciplined

    The law is on the professors’s side.

  70. #70 beth
    July 25, 2008

    I had to look up the crane/skyhook thing. Forgive me, Pimp Dennett.

  71. #71 Benjamin Franklin
    July 25, 2008

    John @ #34

    Analogy FAIL!

    Now, if another professor had gone to hospitals to pick out babies and chop them up with a sharp cleaver, then you might have a fair case.

  72. #72 Julie K
    July 25, 2008

    Hah! I loved that last scene. My cat didn’t though as my laughter caused her severe emotional distress. Surely I can complain to someone about that right? Surely I can create some sort of media frenzy since my cat is much more important than a cracker.

    Speaking of which, it’s rather sad to see that some Catholics still can’t tell the difference between child abuse and the disposal of an unwanted cracker.

    Oh, and where’s the squid hat? I still want one.

  73. #73 The Chemist
    July 25, 2008

    Only 70ish comments so far? People must be getting writer’s cramp.

  74. #74 andyo
    July 25, 2008

    Just in case to let you guys know, I found the Beware the Believers video in the torrents, in glorious 720p high definition video. It looks AWESOME! Look it up, there weren’t too many seeds, but I downloaded it not too long ago.

  75. #75 Sili
    July 25, 2008

    you people are disgusting. how dare you insult the Catholic Church? It is the only true church and I am proud to say that. I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.
    Posted by: Julie | July 25, 2008 6:31 PM

    You are indeed correct, Julie dear. Unless you go for the environmentally unfriendly option of cremation (like meeee!), then you’ll rot right here along with the rest of us, silly.

    PS: Kudos to Edmondson – again.

  76. #76 Michael Edmondson
    July 25, 2008

    #74 – I’ll seed this one too.

  77. #77 Benjamin Franklin
    July 25, 2008

    In honor of this video, and the entire cracker affair, I am going to mix up a special cocktail and say a toast (or should that be a wafer) to PZ Myers for actions above and beyond the call of duty*.

    Rusty Nail Recipe

    The Rusty Nail is a Scottish drink blending Scotch and Drambuie. This is a perfect cocktail for fall / autumn drinking, with its golden brown color and hearty kick!

    For those who are curious, Drambuie is a mixed liquor made in Scotland, and its name comes from the Gaelic phrase “the drink that satisfies”. It is mostly Scotch whisky blends plus honey.

    Really, Scotch Whisky (or Scotch for short) is just whisky made in Scotland. The flavor variation comes, as with wines and other handmade items, from the local ingredients used. In this case, it has to do with the Scotch waters, the peat used to cook the malt, and other similar idiosyncracies.

    To make a Rusty Nail, fill an old-fashioned glass with ice cubes. Pour in 3/4oz Scotch. Gently add the 1/4oz Drambuie. Depending on your taste preferences, you can also go with 1 shot Scotch and 1 shot Drambuie. I suppose it depends if you have a really good Scotch that you want to appreciate, or if you want to drown out your mediocre Scotch with the honey in the Drambuie. For me, it’s the Glen Livet.

    And, of course, I’m going to have some hors d’?uvre made with:

    ChristOCrackers The Perfect cracker with Rusty Nails

    ..
    .

    *some shameless sucking up for a Molly – How could it hurt?

  78. #78 Julie K
    July 25, 2008

    Michael,

    I think there’s a market for that squid/octopus hat you gave PZ in Beware the Believers. Just sayin’…

  79. #79 Sastra
    July 25, 2008

    Taz #64 wrote:

    In other words, lay off the prof. or the cracker gets it.

    I remember once, when what’s called the “Flag Protection Amendment” (a law to make it a criminal act to ‘desecrate’ the American flag) was making another one of its dreary rounds among grandstanding members of Congress, one of its main supporters unexpectedly withdrew his support. He explained to the press that he did so because he had realized that the many people who were against the law were vowing to burn the American flag in protest, if it passed. Hundred and thousands of them.

    The congressman said that the bill would then have the opposite effect from what was intended. As it is, hardly anyone burns American flags. But a lot of people would do so for the sole and only purpose of protesting the Flag Protection Amendment, and standing up for the First Amendment. A free society should have no political prisoners charged with “desecration.”

    The analogy is not perfect, of course, but it seems to me that PZ’s act of desecrating the Eucharist can be compared to someone burning the American flag for just the reason I mentioned above. It is not in protest of American policy, or the Constitution. It is not because of hatred of America or Americans. It is not to cause distress to patriots and the weeping mothers of dead soldiers. It is not an act of hate directed at individuals, or a threat meant to intimidate anyone.

    It’s because destroying a symbol to make a point — even a bad one — should NOT be treated like an aggressive act of violence. And that point can perhaps be made best by destroying the symbol, to show that it has no real power.

    It’s just a piece of cloth. Or, a cracker.

  80. #80 Paul W.
    July 25, 2008

    Michael,

    Kudos again.

    It’s a bit short, though. I can’t wait for the special edition DVD with the uncensored director’s cut. (I hear the nude scene with Mohammed and his 9-year-old wife just rocks.)

    More, please.

  81. #81 foxfire
    July 25, 2008

    Michael – LOL! That was great!

  82. #82 raven
    July 25, 2008

    Max the moron:

    On that Board you have Clyde Allen was was Vice-President of Concordia College and Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary. I don’t see where either of those guys are going to find PZ’s antics amusing.

    In case you’ve forgotten, Protestants revolted against the Catholic church as a corrupt bastion of idolatry and superstition. After 400 years of bloody warfare and due to a lack of access to tanks, rockets, artillery, fighter planes, and nukes, they have wound down to name calling. Fundies today frequently refer to it as the Church of Satan and the Pope as the Antichrist.

    Martin Luther was the leader and had a death sentence on his head. I’m sure that the Lutherans are laughing their ass off and hoping someone else will start the Reformation wars up again. They have long memories.

    The problem with leaving a 2,000 year trail of dead bodies of Jews, heretics, Moslems, Protestants, scientists, and alleged witches: While the victims are dead, their friends, family, and ingroup members haven’t forgotten.

  83. #83 Kobra
    July 25, 2008

    Wow. I’m almost speechless.

  84. #84 LisaJ
    July 25, 2008

    Ha, that was great! Very cute. Although, I was not expecting that Dawkins bondage, yikes! I sense a nightmare tonight.

  85. #85 raven
    July 25, 2008

    Bill Donohue:

    We’ve already won. Who really cares what Hollywood thinks? All these hacks come out there. Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It’s not a secret, okay? And I’m not afraid to say it. … Hollywood likes anal sex. They like to see the public square without nativity scenes.

    Hmmm, looks like Donohue doesn’t like Jews. Or Moslems. Why didn’t he include Protestants? Oh that is right. Last time they started massacring Protestants, those apostates murdered them back. So he is a bully as well.

    Reminds me of Orwell’s 1984. They must start their day with an hour of hate with pictures of anyone who is not Catholic, Jews, Moslems, gays, Protestants, atheists, hindus and so on. Bunch of bigots.

  86. #86 Andrés Diplotti
    July 25, 2008

    Julie @23

    I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.

    So, the whole deal is:

    “I am thy Lord. Thou shalt love Me or else thou shalt rot in hell.”

    It looks like grounds for a civil action lawsuit over sexual harassment, if you ask me.

    Screechy Monkey @61

    It’s [sic] president, Bill Donohue

    Its sick president?

  87. #87 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    That’s exactly my reasoning, thinking of the story that the Danes all wore yellow stars in defiance of the Nazis. After every blog on the internet has posted the mohammed cartoons, that issue has lost its power as well. If every blogger expressed their non-reverence of the host, going after all of them in response would keep Billy D busy 24/7. Two of us have done it so far; me, and
    Norm , that I know of. Also, I sent mine directly to the catholic league. I don’t believe real catholics care, since every altar boy I ever knew did this same shit.

  88. #88 True Bob
    July 25, 2008

    Sastra, I was one of those people. I care for my country, but it is just a cloth, and if you make it “sacred”, I’ll burn one toot sweet (sic), in mourning for my country.

    Another note, it would truly be a thought crime. Proper disposal of the US Flag, per US Code, is by burning. It’s what you’re thinking that matters to those authoritarians

  89. #89 raven
    July 25, 2008

    It strains credulity to maintain that Christian students can expect fair treatment by a faculty member who has publicly shown nothing but contempt for their religion.”

    Well, then they will also have to get rid of all the Catholic professors. Catholics have a long history of discriminating against and killing Jews, Protestants, Moslems, MDs, Scientists, and atheists. In fact the last Protestant shot by a Catholic was in Northern Ireland a few years ago.

    Judging from the trolls on this site, never know when a Catholic professor will go all medieval on the students and start torturing them for being heretics and then burning them at the stake.

    And watch out for the Wiccan students. After 500 years of witch hunts, just keep hoping they don’t decide it is time for a catholic hunt. Payback can be a bitch.

  90. #90 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    Andre @ 86

    If the wafer is really God, then doesn’t it follow that we can press criminal charges against the wafer, convict it as a serial sex offender and incarcerate it? Maybe in a garbage can.

  91. #91 Br. Anthony
    July 25, 2008

    Mr. Myers,

    You are truly a sick, sick man! Your satanic sacrilege against the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, is an abomination!!! You should be punished for your crimes against He who died to save your soul. And this is how you treat Him!!!

    May God have mercy on your poor soul.
    May God have mercy on your poor soul.
    May God have mercy on your poor soul.

  92. #92 True Bob
    July 25, 2008

    Bro, you are WAY late to this party. I’m sure you are correct, though. Cheeses would surely want PZ punished.

  93. #93 swangeese
    July 25, 2008

    SSiE:

    Press the Menu button on the Youtube video, copy and paste the url in a new tab/window, and see if that works.

    For some reason an embedded Youtube video may give the message that the video has been removed when in fact it’s still there.

  94. #94 BG
    July 25, 2008

    Br. Anthony:

    “We appreciate your concern. It is noted and stupid.”

    Also, questions end with the curvey ones that look like this: ?

  95. #95 Emmet Caulfield
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Edmonson @#74,

    Saw your comment early in the desecration thread* and meant to comment on it saying “Yeah! Do it!”. Glad you did.

    * to avoid having to load a bazillion-comment thread, comment #274 (from Mike) just says “Wow. I may have to make an animation of this…”

  96. #96 Andrés Diplotti
    July 25, 2008

    Watercat @90, the matter of legal theology has interesting, and sometimes frustrating, ramifications. For example, his lawyers could never claim “my client couldn’t have done that,” because he’s all-powerful, so he certainly could have. On the other hand, being the defendant omnipresent, the lawyers could argue that he is already in jail. It’s a tough issue…

  97. #97 Joe Cracker
    July 25, 2008

    It seems that Catholics like to swallow, rather than spit !

    They say it is after all the “body” of Christ …

  98. #98 Michael J
    July 25, 2008

    It is blessed are the cheese makers after all

  99. #99 raven
    July 25, 2008

    Watercat @90, the matter of legal theology has interesting, and sometimes frustrating, ramifications.

    Well really. The cracker god wouldn’t bother with lawyers. He would just turn the DA into a frog and that would be it.

  100. #100 Michelle
    July 25, 2008

    @Br. Anthony : Three times’s the charm, eh?

    Atheists are not satanists… We’re atheists! Satan doesn’t even exist. But if you ask me, I have some sort of fascination for satan lovers. I still think they’re idiot freaks, but these guys are still deeply religious, maybe more than some christians! It means these guys read the bible, thought it through…

    …And decided to go for the other guy. Which, by the way, comes out as a rather nice fellow if you read the atrocities God commits.

    Sorta a big failure for the G guy to lose these sheeps. But then again, not surprising!

  101. #101 Joe Cracker
    July 25, 2008

    The Catholic priest to his altar boy:

    “It is a sacrilege to spit, my son, just swallow”.

  102. #102 Kel
    July 25, 2008

    You’ve been immortalised. Well done

  103. #103 ZZZZ
    July 25, 2008

    Here we go again, “professor.” Thanks for another typical Internet flame job.

  104. #104 Satan
    July 25, 2008

    Br. Anthony,

    I’ll thank you to capitalize adjectives derived from my name in future.

  105. #105 Nerd of Redhead
    July 25, 2008

    I think a lot of anti-PZ posters forget what the job of the board of regents is. The job is three fold. First, if a new university President is need, select one with the consent of the faculty Senate. Second, show up every so often, and bless what the President is doing with the university, providing he has not had a no-confidence vote from the faculty Senate. The third is to pick up a paycheck for doing the first two items. The faculty Senate will give any President a vote a no-confidence if he interferes in any way with academic freedom–after all, their own jobs could be a stake. The university President is not touching the issue, hence the statement from the Chancellor.

  106. #106 Andrés Diplotti
    July 25, 2008

    Raven @99

    The cracker god wouldn’t bother with lawyers. He would just turn the DA into a frog and that would be it.

    Actually, I think he’s more likely to turn the court secretary into a frog. Remember, when it comes to divine retribution, his marksmanship is not what it used to be several millennia ago.

  107. #107 dubiquiabs
    July 25, 2008

    @ #34 John, what’s not professional about picking up fatally flawed hypotheses? And what’s not didactic about demonstrating just how ridiculous some of them are? Isn’t this what scientists are supposed to do, regardless of how reverential the hypothesis has been treated and by whom and for how long?

  108. #108 Max Verret
    July 25, 2008

    John at 69

    The matter has now been appealed to the Board of Regents of U. of Minnesota. as I noted at #12, on that board sits:

    Clyde Allen who was Vice-President of Concordia College and Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary. I doubt of either of them will find PZ’s antics amusing. On the surface they would appear to be strong God-believers.

    As Bill Donohue said, justice will be done. The only problem I have with Bill is that he is not tough enough. My advise to him: Bill, its balls to the wall time buddy.

  109. #109 Screechy Monkey
    July 25, 2008

    As a public service, I would like to provide the following Index of CrackerGate Anti-PZ Arguments:

    1. “PZ is going to hell, and I can’t wait!”
    2. “I will pray for God to have mercy on PZ”
    3. “PZ is going to be fired”
    4. “PZ is going to be charged with [theft, incitement to something-or-other, malicious assault of a wafer]”
    5. “It’s MEEEAN to disrespect people’s beliefs”
    6. “I am concerned with how this will affect the reputation of atheists”
    7. “PZ is depriving Catholics of freedom of religion, because they must now protect themselves from the deadly threat of cracker theft”

    We’re all tired of the above. Please try to provide something new. If you must indulge yourself, please just post a number or numbers and save bandwidth.

  110. #110 Michelle
    July 25, 2008

    How about…
    “I’m catholic and I support this message!”

    We didn’t see that one yet. Makes me sad, I used to know some cool catholics.

  111. #111 KM
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Edmondton:

    Good work — especially since you did it in only, what, one day? Two? Fantastic!

    Everyone who has decided that this is a good place to pick up the crackerbating:

    Fuck, can we not just let this thing die already? It’s a non-issue.

  112. #112 Taz
    July 25, 2008

    Max Verret -

    As Bill Donohue said, justice will be done. The only problem I have with Bill is that he is not tough enough. My advise to him: Bill, its balls to the wall time buddy.

    Didn’t you see my threat, Max? If you go after Myers, more crackers will be desecrated. I thought this was your god who is actually harmed by these actions? Would you allow more harm to your god rather than forgo your vengeance against one person? Or could it be that most of you don’t actually believe the cracker is god? It’s just an excuse to drum up a good healthy case of orgasmic religious outrage.

  113. #113 KM
    July 25, 2008

    Oooops. That should be “Edmondson” not “Edmondton”. Preview and I should be better friends.

  114. #114 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    And all anti-PZ complaints classified by #109 will be filed here.

  115. #115 chuckgoecke
    July 25, 2008

    Did anyone see the video that was below and tagged to the PZ video of the Eucharistic processional at U of Neb, Lincoln. I thought it was quite beautiful, a nice bit of ceremony, beautiful gowns, and lights, and well filmed with nice gregorian music. It was really nice. I enjoy religious art whenever it is beautiful and well presented and not shoved down my throat. I especially love Gregorian chat music and its place in the history of music. All that said, this is all just art, part of the wonder of human creation and experience, to be enjoyed if you like, or not. It is not worthy of fighting about. If someone disagrees with me, fine. I don’t see any reason to make death threats about anything to do with art. Its about creation, not destruction, for our enrichment. Like Richard Dawkins, I don’t have anything against religious rituals, so long as they are non-cohersive. Its all arts and entertainment.

  116. #116 Norman Doering
    July 25, 2008

    Max Verret wrote:

    on that board sits:
    Clyde Allen who was Vice-President of Concordia College and Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary.

    Wow. Just because there are a couple of other Christians on the board you expect them to be as vengeful, idolatrous and crazy as yourself?

  117. #117 Screechy Monkey
    July 25, 2008

    “Clyde Allen who was Vice-President of Concordia College and Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary. I doubt of either of them will find PZ’s antics amusing. On the surface they would appear to be strong God-believers.”

    The fact that two members (of a twelve-member body, I might add) “appear to be strong God-believers” doesn’t tell us much. Who cares whether they “find PZ’s antics amusing?” Some people, including many religious people, are capable of distinguishing between “things of which I approve” and “things which I will deny others the right to do.”

    Incidentally, also on the board is Steven Hunter, who has served on the governing body of the Minnesota ACLU. Among other things, I suspect he is capable of pointing out to the board that they will have their pants sued off for overruling an administrative decision and firing someone on the orders of religious lobby groups.

  118. #118 afterthought
    July 25, 2008

    If you must indulge yourself, please just post a number or numbers and save bandwidth.

    Posted by: Screechy Monkey

    So Al goes with Bob (Comedian) to the convention in Vegas.
    They walk into the ballroom where a guy walks up to the Mic and says: “Number 23″ and the whole room cracks-up including Bob, while Al looks puzzled. Then a woman walks up to the Mic and says, “Number 45″, and the whole room, sans Al, laughs again. So Al says to Bob, “Why is everybody laughing at numbers?” Bob says, “Everybody knows the jokes, so we have them all numbered. Saves time.”
    Al says, “Great, let me try” and runs up to the Mic and says, “Number 67″, dead silence with a couple of “boos”. He slinks back over to Bob and asks, “Why didn’t they laugh?” Bob says, “It’s not the joke, it is the delivery”.
    Thank you, thank you. I am here all week. Try the squid!

  119. #119 JD
    July 25, 2008

    So the dim and witless cracker worshippers are hoping to see formal sanctions taken against PZ and his testament to the supidity of their beliefs….what could be better?

    The press was quick to show the idiocy of muslim fanatics regarding cartoons of the “prophet” Now we get to highlight the idiocy of Christian fanatics and the idiocy of their idol worship of a near-worthless piece of bread. It’s perfect.

    Yes, John-tard (#34) “…The storm begins…” but it’s on your horizon and headed right for your bronze-age, goat-herder mythology.

    Unfortunately, while the sheeple have proven, beyond any doubt, that they are dumb enough to bring more attention to their irrational rage against someone chucking a cracker in the trash, their church leaders will not likely support them and will only want to hide from further embarrassment and ridicule.

  120. #120 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Professor,

    I heard you like to molest young boys. True or false?

  121. #121 thegomezsymbol
    July 25, 2008

    Dawkins truly gets lucky!

  122. #122 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    Professor,

    I heard you like to molest young boys. True or false?

    Whoops! Wrong forum. I think you meant to ask that question over here. How embarrassing for you!

  123. #123 Theresa
    July 25, 2008

    To the pharngula and his acolytes–the followers of the deceiver: Woe-never have I heard of such name calling, vile and hate-filled vomitous spewing forth with such vehemence. This is unacceptable human behavior–tearing each other apart with evil, despicable words.
    Mt.7:16 By their fruits you shall know them.
    In regards to the sins of the people. Such incredible sadness with so many violations-especially against the children–not only the sins of the Catholics, but also those of other faiths/and, or the “faithless.” To qualify the “faithless”–to each a certain deposit of faith has been given.
    I too call forward that some priests–and I qualify that–some priests/religious/Bishops have sinned greatly and they will be called to accountability for such grave sins–they will be judged not by us, but in the manner God chooses. It is between them and God alone. In the meantime, I choose to thank all the good priests–those who in wisdom speak the Truth in the love of Christ. We truly appreciate our good, holy priests! I also recognize that Jesus said He would build His church on Peter–Mt.16:18 and on this rock I will build my church. The gates of Hades will not overcome it. Also, too it makes perfect sense that God would purify, and cleanse His Holy Church–first and foremost-prior to cleansing the churches that broke away from the Catholic Church. This too shows God’s perfect order- rooting out the evil within first, then the outlying branches. Remember too-Jn.8:7 If any of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone….
    Now to the heart of the matter PZ–you found a way to hurt, and cause pain and insult to all practicing Catholics.
    We love Jesus. He is Lord and Savior to all who chose to open their hearts to Him. Repent and ask Jesus into your hearts- this is the circumcision of the heart. Stop the rebellion. The evil one is not your friend-he seeks only to use you for his deceitful purposes- he wants you to spew hatred, vile words,thoughts,& images at others. He wants you to lie for him, to incite yourself and others to raging anger and violence, that he can claim you to eternal damnation to further the kingdom of darkness.
    It is not too late–invite Jesus the Christ to be your Savior–He came to do that–He loves you-”Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing” Lk 23:34
    By their own words and the photo of the first desecration–the Holy Eucharist though pierced through the heart did not break or crack(as those who believed the Holy Eucharist would act as a regular “cracker”-according to their own words. By their own words they testify to the Truth–Jesus is Present-Body,Soul, & Divinity.
    Praised be to God the Father, the Almighty who in His infinite wisdom and mercy has offered us salvation through Jesus. If the “rusty nail piercing” had been into a “cracker”, then it normally would have broken apart. Are you getting it yet? He is Lord- He is present- the rusty nail has punctured His Heart. That is why the Host remains intact. You have pierced His Heart and that is why Catholics are coming unglued–we too feel His pain. One can’t even imagine how Jesus suffers-first through his humble acceptance to suffer/wrongly accused/being beaten & spat upon/ humiliated/crowned with thorns and then dragged through the streets knowing full well He will be nailed to the Cross for your salvation and mine. Repent and say Yes to Jesus, ask Him to come into your heart. I accept you as Lord and Savior.
    Begone satan–In the name of Jesus and by the power of the Holy Spirit you must desist–Jesus already won! Choose this day whom you will serve.
    There is a whole army of God praying for you all–a whole litany of saints both living and deceased who are appealing to God to have mercy on all unrepentants.
    Lord have Mercy! Eternal Father, we offer the Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, Have Mercy on us and on the whole world.

    God in His infinite Mercy will forgive you if you ask Him.
    Theresa

  124. #124 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Dustin,

    I’m just being irrelevant. Like everyone else on this site. Can you talk about something important, please? You guys bore me.

  125. #125 JD
    July 25, 2008

    Professor,

    I heard you like to molest young boys. True or false?

    Although your rather crude attempt at vengeance through rumor-mongering is so obvious, it’s not surprising that you and your pals discuss molestation of boys. It’s well known to be quite a topic of conversation among Catholics given the proclivities of their priests.

    Were you attempting to recruit PZ for the priesthood or simply telling us that that is your ass-piration?

  126. #126 watercat
    July 25, 2008

    Screechy monkey;

    #8.. The cracker is actually God, and is NOT GUILTY of {insert favorite atrocity}

  127. #127 jagannath
    July 25, 2008

    How did it go again?

    Fuck me father for I have sinned?

    Admittedly that is very bad taste but is that not also the biggest public relationships problem of the Catholics? Do you really need another in regards of cracker cannibalism?

  128. #128 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    JD,

    Chilax, why dontcha?

    Use smaller, non-polysyllabic words, please.

    It will make you sound less boring.

  129. #129 Joe Cracker
    July 25, 2008

    Theresa, Allahu Abkar?

  130. #130 FastLane
    July 25, 2008

    Ok, I admit, I LOLd. Especially at the Dawkins bit. =)

    Nice.

  131. #131 afterthought
    July 25, 2008

    So, is there a limit to the size of a killfile? The last week or so has expanded mine exponentially. No particular reason to mention that fact (cough #123, cough), just wondered. Seems like it used to be like 100, but I must have added many more than that.

  132. #132 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    It’s amusing to see the academic elite jumping to conclusions.

    You don’t even know what side I’m on!

    I could be PZ’s spurned lover, for all you know.

    Or his mother….

  133. #133 raven
    July 25, 2008

    Max the moron:

    Dean Johnson who spent 35 years of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master’s from Luther Theological Seminary.

    Over the next five days, private conferences were held to determine Luther’s fate. The Emperor presented the final draft of the Edict of Worms on May 25, 1521, declaring Luther an outlaw, banning his literature, and requiring his arrest: “We want him to be apprehended and punished as a notorious heretic”.[50] It also made it a crime for anyone in Germany to give Luther food or shelter. It permitted anyone to kill Luther without legal consequence.

    Max is dumb. Lutherans and Catholics have been enemies for 400 years. Lutherans still believe that Catholics are corrupt bastions of idolatry and superstition. Catholic doctrine is that the Lutheran religion is fake, Ratzinger just said it again a few months ago.

    Getting a bit desperate here if he thinks a Lutheran is going to give a rat’s ass about Catholic extremists. The guy is probably laughing his ass off.

  134. #134 Nerd of Redhead
    July 25, 2008

    Theresa,
    Mental diarrhea, like your post, should go down the toilet like regular diarrhea. Prayer is proven to be worthless. God doesn’t exist. Deal with it. If you wish to pray, do so a Jesus commanded and do it the closet of your soul, that is in private, not in public.

  135. #135 Todd
    July 25, 2008

    Hi, Theresa

    Have you ever considered that according to your religious beliefs, God planted a seed in Mary, who gave birth to Jesus. Doesn’t this strike you as rather kinky. It’s almost like Jesus boinked Mary.

    Blasphemy, fun for all the family.

  136. #136 JD
    July 25, 2008

    Shas cried,

    JD, Use smaller, non-polysyllabic words, please.

    Ah yes, one of the “dim and witless” cracker worshippers I posted about earlier (see #119) proves my point. I knew it wouldn’t take long.

  137. #137 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    JD,

    PZ is a crack-worshipper.

    C’mon – I know you think I’m funny.

  138. #138 KM
    July 25, 2008

    “It’s amusing to see the academic elite jumping to conclusions.”

    The academic elite? It’s a blog, you twit. When you say precisely the kind of thing the Catholic fundamentalists and apologists have been flooding this blog with over the last week or so, the conclusion that you’re one of them is a reasonable one to draw.

    I don’t give a shit what “side” you’re on, you’re just being an immature ass. If you find the conversation here so uninteresting and irrelevant, why don’t you introduce a topic that you find interesting and relevant or go elsewhere to spend your time more profitably?

  139. #139 Donnie B.
    July 25, 2008

    Michael, I have one little quibble.

    The thing that PZ “desecrated” is called a host, not a Eucharist. The latter refers to the sacrament itself, not the wafer. It would be correct to say PZ desecrated the Eucharist, or desecrated a host, but not a Eucharist.

    Not that is matters much. It’s just that sacrilege really brings out the pedant in me.

  140. #140 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    This is how mature bloggers speak:

    “I don’t give a shit what “side” you’re on,you’re just being an immature ass.”

    Also, note the comma splice.

  141. #141 Bill Anderson
    July 25, 2008

    Shaz:
    “JD,

    Chilax, why dontcha?

    Use smaller, non-polysyllabic words, please.

    It will make you sound less boring.”

    Wow, I thought JD’s comment #125 was rather well done. Please explain…

  142. #142 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Bill,

    Explain what?

  143. #143 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    Thank you, PZM, for trying to make the USA a rational place once again. I got wind of the “Great Desecration” through the blogosphere and applaud it: in well-functioning, enlightened society, there ought not to be any sacred cows. I could suggest a couple of dozen more for you to skewer, but you’re doing just fine on your own! Keep it up, please.

  144. #144 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    Myers is a Christian-hater, a bigot, insensitive, a jackass, and a despicable human being. It is not enough for him (or the many other atheists on this) to not believe…oh no…they have to do everything in their power to bring the rest of the world down the their level of misery. I guess that’s what happens when you condemn your soul to hell and have no hope….as they say, misery loves company.

  145. #145 Holbach
    July 25, 2008

    Ray @ 144 WHERE WAS YOUR god?

  146. #146 Gûm-ishi Ashi Gurum
    July 25, 2008

    Theresa:

    Your family loves you very much and wants you to be happy. Take your medication; it may be numbing and sedating, but at least it’ll help you be functional and cogent.

  147. #147 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Blaine,
    If by “enlightened society” you mean one where atheists proclaim themselves “lords of the universe” by belittling the beliefs of others, by treating fellow human beings with disdain and disrespect, by ushering in a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint, then I’d say you’re well on your way. Myself…count me out.

  148. #148 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    This is all so entertaining.

    It’s like listening to 6-year olds fighting.

  149. #149 Bill Anderson
    July 25, 2008

    Shaz #140 & 142:

    … explain why you have difficulty with the polysyllabic words that JD used in #125. Like I said, I thought his comment was well done, and shouldn’t be called boring, and your comment missed the mark by not addressing his comment.

  150. #150 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    Holbach @ 145…right where He always is….loving you despite your hatred.

  151. #151 foldedpath
    July 25, 2008

    Theresa @163:
    By their own words and the photo of the first desecration–the Holy Eucharist though pierced through the heart did not break or crack(as those who believed the Holy Eucharist would act as a regular “cracker”-according to their own words. By their own words they testify to the Truth–Jesus is Present-Body,Soul, & Divinity.

    Oh, this just gets better. Folks, we now have a miracle. Are digital photos acceptable to the Vatican for official recognition these days, if the original is in a landfill somewhere? There must be a protocol for all those ephemera like Jesus appearing on on toast, that don’t last long. Keep us posted.

    Whatever you do, don’t bother engaging your brain to consider how that could have been done for the photo setup, or that PZ just might have been sent more than one, to practice on.

    P.S. are there any semi-sane Catholics on these threads, willing to say something about this kind of fringe superstition? Or do you have to buy into it 100%? All or nothing?

  152. #152 shas
    July 25, 2008

    My dearest, darling Bill Anderson,

    I think what bothers me is the phoniness of it all. I can sense JD’s constrained hostility, which he/she disguises with BIG words in order to make him/herself appear more civilized than he/she actually is.

    It’s kinda like perfume on a mound of dog crap, if you know what I mean.

    I guess I just like genuine, honest folk.

  153. #153 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    Ray: I shoud be able to belittle your beliefs all I want; and if you tell me what they are, I will! PMZ is right: there is not enough questioning going on in America. MB

  154. #154 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    To foldedpath @151:
    Oh, this just gets better. In the modern age, we now have these atheists insisting that life on earth sprang from nothing and that all the matter in the universe was once contained in a space smaller then an atomic nucleus. Please, foldedpath, keep us posted.

    Whatever you do, don’t bother engaging your brain to consider how these so-called “facts” could have happened without the presence of a God.

    P.S. are there any semi-sane atheists on these threads, willing to say something about this kind of fringe scientific superstition? Or do you have to buy into it 100%? All or nothing?

  155. #155 Dustin
    July 25, 2008

    If by “enlightened society” you mean one where atheists proclaim themselves “lords of the universe” by belittling the beliefs of others, by treating fellow human beings with disdain and disrespect, by ushering in a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint, then I’d say you’re well on your way.

    Atheism causes warp drives, polemics and orgies? SIGN ME UP!

  156. #156 Cheezits
    July 25, 2008

    Fuck, can we not just let this thing die already?

    No! The cracker thread shall never die! It always gets resurrected. :-D

    99 cracker posts on the blog
    99 cracker posts
    Take one down and pass it around
    100 cracker posts on the blog!

  157. #157 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    To Michael Blaine 153:

    And you find this to be acceptable human behavior? Where I come from that’s called ego maniacal rudeness. Like I said, count me out of your little atheistic love-fest.

  158. #158 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    “a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint” I think the US is pretty much there, and it is the “Christians” driving it: All the God-fearing men on Wall Street and in the Pentagon wreaking havoc on the world.

  159. #159 scooter
    July 25, 2008

    #32 SSiE

    each one gives the telling little “This video is no longer available” message

    That’s a common Youtube glitch.

    I’ve been grabbing them over the past week and uploading copies at: You Tube Eucharist Challenge

    Expand the More from Skutre menu

  160. #160 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    FYI, Ray, I’m a Lutheran. And I’m glad we broke away from that Catholic insanity! Corrupt idol worshipers!!!

  161. #161 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    To Michael Blaine @ 158:
    “a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint” I think the US is pretty much there, and it is the “atheists” driving it: All the non-believers in Hollywood, entertainment, and on college campuses filling young minds with their atheistic, Cristian-hating drivel; that is what is wreaking havoc on the world.

  162. #162 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    “Fuck, can we not just let this thing die already?”

    The Great Desecration? I just found out about it, so give me some time to comment!

  163. #163 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Blaine,

    Are the Christians on Wall St. and in the Pentagon Lutherans by any chance?

    Please let me know.

  164. #164 NanuNanu
    July 25, 2008

    how is this

    me hope words not too big for dum troll

  165. #165 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    “Christian-hating drivel” I don’t hate Christians; but people who call themselves “Christian” have contributed greatly to our country’s current problems. And what the heck is wrong if I shit on your stupid communion wafer? Do it to mine, and I won’t bat an eye. As PMZ points out, It’s YOUR silly belief about the wafer, not mine. If you literally believe God is physically in that wafer, you’re crazy.

  166. #166 foldedpath
    July 25, 2008

    Evidence, Ray, it’s all about the evidence. Science and rational thought have made at least a start on understanding this world we live in. Religion offers dogma and superstition, nothing more. There are some of us who don’t want to return to the Middle Ages.

  167. #167 Bill Anderson
    July 25, 2008

    Shas #152:
    Well, OK be bothered then. I’m greatly enjoying this whole cracker issue – what I call WAFER MADNESS. But then, Atheists like me have to enjoy such madness while we can, especially in a presidential campaign year. I think that what PZ has done with this religious symbol issue displays far more logic than we’ve seen or will see for quite some time in the area of national politics. I’m sorry this issue bothers you, but that’s your preference. As an obviously highly civilized person, you are free to feel sorry for me while all of the political candidates are busy displaying their most intrinsic christian credentials.

  168. #168 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    To Michael Blaine @ 160:
    Christ established one Church, the Holy Catholic Church. It is sad that you proclaim your heresy with pride.

  169. #169 JD
    July 25, 2008

    Shas digs deeper,

    I guess I just like genuine, honest folk.

    Says the tard that posted a rumor about PZ that “it” knew was false. Your concept of honesty is as warped as your perception of reality.

    Not only are you “dim and witless,” but also you’re now a proven hypocrite. You represent your church quite well.

  170. #170 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    “Michael Blaine,

    Are the Christians on Wall St. and in the Pentagon Lutherans by any chance?

    Please let me know.”

    Yes, some must be nominally “Lutheran.” Of course. I can’t defend them.

  171. #171 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Bill Anderson,

    What are you doing Saturday night?

  172. #172 chrisD
    July 25, 2008

    Ray, is it possible for you to make your name more unique, possibly by doing what I do and adding the last initial of your name such as Ray_*. I’d hate for a later, more sane Ray to come in here and have him caught in my killfile because of your shenanigans. Many thanks.

  173. #173 Michael Blaine
    July 25, 2008

    OK, Ray, you’re joking, right? “Heresy”? Really?!! Hah!

  174. #174 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    foldedpath @ 166:
    If you believe all the matter in the universe was once contained in a space smaller then an atomic nucleus, then you are a greater believer in superstition then the most devout Catholic that has ever lived. Science knows little, and they know NOTHING that God has not given them the gifts to discern. Believing that the universe just popped into existence on its own is the GREATEST drivel that has been brainwashed into the masses over the past century. Our God-given intelligence has made many in the scientific community believe they are the new gods..while truthfully, they know so little and mock those who do not agree. Pathetic.

  175. #175 Bill Anderson
    July 25, 2008

    Shas, Is this a trick question? Why do you ask?

  176. #176 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    JD,

    Instead of ‘tard, why don’t you use words like “mentally challenged” or “developmentally delayed”? You’re almost as
    inconsistent as I am!

    Skill-testing question: What church does Shas belong to?

  177. #177 NanuNanu
    July 25, 2008

    me not like dum troll say paul rape child

    child rape joke make me mad

  178. #178 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Blaine @ 173:
    Heresy: Heresy is a dislocation of some complete and self-supporting system of belief, especially a religion, by the introduction of a novel denial of some part therein.

    Anyone who denies the one true church is by definition a heretic.

  179. #179 jagannath
    July 25, 2008

    How easily the religious folks forget their own book.

    The crackergate is straight from the bible (Exodus 32).

    Aaron the high priest of Hebrew made a golden calf(cracker) when people demanded for a god. They were gladly worshipping it and why should they not have done so as Aaron was their Pope if such comparison to modern day figures is needed.

    Moses came down the mountain and started to whoop ass, against his brother the high priest of his people for he had erred in his choice of the gods allowed to brown-nose at the request of the howling masses. God being all-around nice fellow he commanded the slaughter of some 3000 and added a plague to the misery.

    So some big shot says this is how you should do it and people follow it but then some other fellow desecrates that statue of a god and all is good. Pure and simple, Fight the power and do not trust the Man behind the curtain.

    And above all, read the damn book from start to finish and wank a little more to let that steam to escape in a harmless way.

  180. #180 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Bill Anderson,

    I wander off topic sometimes. But some people find it intriguing.

  181. #181 Taz
    July 25, 2008

    shas -

    I guess I just like genuine, honest folk.

    How does that square with your coy little “You don’t even know what side I’m on!” my dearest, darlingest, little cutie-pie shas?

  182. #182 NanuNanu
    July 25, 2008

    shas

    great moon god say you burn for all time cause you use more than one sound in words

    you say you wrong so moon god not hurt you

  183. #183 Wowbagger
    July 25, 2008

    Oh not more papist cretins. Hmm, how to get rid of them?

    Catholics, quick! Someone’s just posted a YouTube video of a turd that looks just like the Virgin Mary – you better get on there so you can worship it!

    Hurry! Every second is precious!

  184. #184 Shas
    July 25, 2008

    Taz,

    I can be genuine and honest. No one even bothered to ask me what side I was on!

    By the way, who told you I was cute? I’m impressed!

  185. #185 Ray
    July 25, 2008

    Michael Blaine @ 165:
    See, this is what I mean. You claim to be Lutheran, I suppose you go to church, believe in God, believe in the resurrection of Christ, etc. etc. And all of that is sane to you. Yet we as Catholics believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and you call that insane? The only thing “insane” on this blog is the disrespect for the beliefs of others.

  186. #186 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Ray @ 150 Are you insane or are you just substituing a belief in an imaginary god for your insanity? I don’t love people that hate me; I hate them back. But in your ghost god there is nothing to hate as there is nothing there at all. Can you bring this god thing down to meet me or is it just a figment of your demented brain that you are unaware of as sanity predisposes and presupposes? You will never prove that your imaginary does not exist, just as you cannot prove that you are insane. Insane minds give thoughts to insane ideas. Your idea of a god is insane, so therefore you are insane. Can you comprehend this, or do you have to pray to your god thing whose silence is another indication that not only does it not exist, but that your insanity is truly evident. You are a loser, lost in the insanity of a insane idea. No cracker for you, but just a crumbled up demented brain. Let’s see your god.

  187. #187 IAmMarauder
    July 26, 2008

    Ray said:
    If by “enlightened society” you mean one where atheists proclaim themselves “lords of the universe” by belittling the beliefs of others, by treating fellow human beings with disdain and disrespect, by ushering in a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint, then I’d say you’re well on your way. Myself…count me out.

    Lets see…
    If by “enlightened society” you mean one where atheists Catholics proclaim themselves “lords of the universe” by belittling the beliefs of others, by treating fellow human beings with disdain and disrespect, by ushering in a society with no moral boundaries and no restraint, then I’d say you’re well on your way. Myself…count me out.

    Unfortunately history can show the Catholic version of “enlightened society”…

    Ray also said:
    Oh, this just gets better. In the modern age, we now have these atheists insisting that life on earth sprang from nothing and that all the matter in the universe was once contained in a space smaller then an atomic nucleus.

    Oh, this just gets better. In the modern age, we now have these Catholics insisting that life on earth sprang from dirt and that all the matter in the universe came from nothing.

    Oh man, this is just like Madlibs, only more fun :D

    Ray called out:
    Whatever you do, don’t bother engaging your brain to consider how these so-called “facts” could have happened without the presence of a God.

    Dang, can’t fix this one – it already shows us the truth. Ray just wants us all to disengage our brains and just believe god-did-it… Shame on you Science for engaging your brain and considering how things can occur without the presence of god… What is next, Science proving how human life on Earth wasn’t started from a pile of dirt?

  188. #188 Michael Blaine
    July 26, 2008

    Well, I’m not an atheist nor a Catholic. And – again – I welcome the message of PMZ’s “Great Desecration”: Think For Yourself! Our country would be healthier and more dynamic if we all took that message to heart. But I don’t find this message board very productive; Ray is crazy, and the taunting by the others is just too easy. I wish PMZ and the USA all the best.

  189. #189 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    NanuNanu,

    Speak English for crying out loud!! Don’t y’all hate foreigners like NanuNanu??

    I don’t understand people from different cultures.

    Which means they’re crazy.

  190. #190 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    you use big words

    that mean moon god kill you

    me pray for you

  191. #191 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger @ 183:
    You are correct; every second is precious…for you! Every second that passes is one second closer to the hell-bound conclusion of your life.

  192. #192 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    moon god say shas rape kids

    must be true

    this not good thing

    shas must say they wrong for kid rape

  193. #193 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    Shas -

    I can be genuine and honest. No one even bothered to ask me what side I was on!

    Why should we have to ask? Why don’t you just state your position? Sorry, being deliberately coy is not honest. And I could just see the cuteness oozing off your comments.

  194. #194 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    IAmMarauder,

    Humans are made of the following chemical elements, which can be found in the dirt and rearranged:

    phosphorus, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium and hydrogen.

  195. #195 IAmMarauder
    July 26, 2008

    @179:
    The is also the commandment about worshipping false idols… Although they work around that part in the case of the Host by saying it is changed into Jesus and is thus a version of God.

    Although it doesn’t explain their worship of the following idols: the Virgin Mary, the various Saints, the Pope, the Bible, Bill Donohue…

  196. #196 Dustin
    July 26, 2008

    Humans are made of the following chemical elements, which can be found in the dirt and rearranged:

    phosphorus, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium and hydrogen.

    Guess what else they can be found in…

  197. #197 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Holbach @ 186:
    I’ll show you my God. He appeared on earth 2000 years ago. He performed miracles and brought hope to the hopeless…even you.
    Believing and worshiping God does not make me insane, but it does make me saved.
    Please, feel free to wallow in your misery, but keep your hatred to yourself.

  198. #198 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger @ 183 Yes, worship the turd by all means! Then take it into your mouth as the blessed eucharist! Holy shit, I’ve eaten our lord the god in his natural and devine state! Now my shit will be doubly blessed, unlike that phony cracker which changes into shit only much later and will be desecrated by someone on a infamous blog site. Ha, but we got the upper hand this time, as no one wants to handle shit no matter how holy it is! Morons.

  199. #199 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Taz,

    I am in a sitting (soon-to-be lying down) position in front of the ‘puter.

    And I have dimples to die for!

  200. #200 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Michael Blaine:

    There are actually a number of insightful, intelligent, and articulate regulars here — some haven’t yet made their appearances and others are currently feeding the trolls — and the discussions are often engaging and productive. You seem like a pretty rational and open-minded guy and I’d urge you to give the place another go once this whole Great Desecration thing settles down. Things have kind of devolved with the recent onslought of cracker-crazies.

    Cheers,
    KM.

  201. #201 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Holbach @ 198:
    The only moron here is you….you sound like a 1st grader chuckling over “doodie.”
    Grow up.

  202. #202 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Ray wrote:

    Wowbagger @ 183:
    You are correct; every second is precious…for you! Every second that passes is one second closer to the hell-bound conclusion of your life.

    Great comeback, Ray – clap…..clap…..clap. Man, you must have them rolling in the aisles on open-mike nights down at the papist comedy club.

    There is no such thing as hell – or do you have evidence to suggest otherwise? If so, please present it. Oh, and note that ‘because the bible says so’ is not evidence for anything other than a) some people making up stories and writing them down and b) some other people picking, choosing and altering those stories to help their political careers.

    Seriously, when are catholics in the USA going to realise that, these days, they’re about as relevant and influential as Quakers? You want to be heard, build yourself a dinosaur museum and hope someone pays attention to you.

  203. #203 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    Shas – Is it the host desecration that’s getting you off?

  204. #204 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Ray:

    You believe in the literal truth of fairy tales.

    Grow up.

  205. #205 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    As opposed to the mature, adult belief that we should fawn over a cracker as the creator of the universe and threaten to kill those who disrespect it?

  206. #206 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    KM @ 200:
    By “insightful, intelligent, and articulate regulars” do you mean to imply those who routinely curse, display bigotry and hatred toward others, trample on other’s beliefs, and regard nothing as sacred?
    If so, then you are correct….this blog is full of those regulars, starting with the king bigot himself, PZ Myers.

  207. #207 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    Michael Blaine – I have to agree with KM. These cracker posts are not the norm.

  208. #208 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    my #205 was for Ray at #201

  209. #209 KM
    July 26, 2008

    … If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em…

    Shas:

    What side are you on? Briefly, why?

  210. #210 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    “Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate.” – Lord Byron

  211. #211 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Let’s think the Carlin way:

    Let’s say that the cracker IS the body of Christ. Then you eat it. When does it stop being blessed? In the stomach, in the intestine? Or it just keeps on being blessed forever, it is after all the body of God.

    So (as someone else pointed out), you’re worshiping the turd.

  212. #212 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger @ 202:
    We don’t want to be heard…we want to be left alone from hate-filled bigots such as yourself. If you choose to condemn yourself, go right ahead, but what compels you to drag other people with you? I simply do not get it.
    BTW, there is a hell (and a heaven)…it’s in the Bible; try reading it sometime.

  213. #213 jose jacobs
    July 26, 2008

    Inevitably, one day all will die and see the Face of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, I advise you to BOW TO YOUR GOD THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND ASK FORGIVENESS FOR YOUR IGNORANT ABOMINATION. I guarantee you will eventually meet your Creator Jesus Christ, and remember the words I’ve spoken today. Ask forgiveness now, because you certainly will a few seconds after your leave this physical dimension. Your education is meaningless and minute to GOD. The pride of your people in rejecting Christ your GOD, has caused your people so much suffering.

    May GOD have mercy on your soul!

  214. #214 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    By “insightful, intelligent, and articulate regulars” do you mean to imply those who routinely curse, display bigotry and hatred toward others, trample on other’s beliefs, and regard nothing as sacred?
    If so, then you are correct….this blog is full of those regulars, starting with the king bigot himself, PZ Myers.

    There you go, Michael. If that doesn’t convince you this is a worthwhile blog then nothing will!

  215. #215 Angie
    July 26, 2008

    Is that what the wafer thingy looks like? Looks just like a nicotine patch.

  216. #216 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Can someone give me the scientific explanation for ghosts?
    I’ve seen a few in my day.

  217. #217 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    “A witty saying proves nothing.” -Voltaire

    Likewise, quotes from long dead poets are meaningless to this discussion.

    Though if you start a society of some sort involving such you could probably get Robin Williams to join.

  218. #218 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Quotes from still-living university profs are meaningless, too.

  219. #219 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    NanuNanu @ 205:
    As opposed to the mature, adult belief that we should fawn over a cracker as the creator of the universe and threaten to kill those who disrespect it?

    No, I don’t expect YOU to do anything. All I ask is that YOU respect MY right to worship the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. And I would never (nor would any true Catholic) threaten anyone who disrespects the Lord. As followers of Christ, we are instead compelled to pray for them.

  220. #220 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Shas … the explanation it’s simple, delusion on your part. Nothing but a subjective experience.

  221. #221 clinteas
    July 26, 2008

    Ray babbled:

    //Our God-given intelligence//

    Where were you and 95%of your catholic friends that we have seen here in the last 2 weeks when god handed out the intelligence Ray? Hiding somewhere? On the loo?

  222. #222 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Ray wrote:

    By “insightful, intelligent, and articulate regulars” do you mean to imply those who routinely curse, display bigotry and hatred toward others, trample on other’s beliefs, and regard nothing as sacred?

    Ray, your first post on this thread was as follows: Myers is a Christian-hater, a bigot, insensitive, a jackass, and a despicable human being.

    Those are opinions, based on an ignorance of the facts and a lack of understanding of what the words ‘hate’ and ‘bigot’ and actually mean. If you’d made even the vaguest attempt at presenting something resembling an argument or a valid point that we haven’t heard a hundred times before then you might have been treated differently.

    You walked like a duck and quacked like a duck – so we treated you like one.

    Why waste our insight, intelligence and articulation on you? It’d be like using a tank to crush an ant.

  223. #223 KM
    July 26, 2008

    No, Ray, I meant precisely what I said, and I said it quite plainly.

    A few brief notes:

    1. You’re right, the atheists here hold nothing sacred. “Sacredness” is a religious concept.

    2. As for trampling on others’ beliefs, what exactly do you think you’re doing here? (See, e.g., your comments on evolution, scientific superstitions, and on anything to do with atheism.)

    3. Hatred of others? You seem pretty hateful yourself, pal. What’s that business about heresy and of condemning people like me — and any other non-Christians — to an eternity of hellfire and damnation, again? (In case it’s not obvious, that question is rhetorical.)

    4. See (3) for my thoughts on you and bigotry.

    Well, at least you didn’t curse…

  224. #224 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Joe,

    Yes, but can you prove that I’m deluded?

  225. #225 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Ray, are you implying that Bill Donahue is not a true Catholic?

    That’s what we thought too …

  226. #226 Tazq
    July 26, 2008

    It’s become apparent that Shas is just an attention troll, posting just to get a response. Ignore him and he’ll go away.

  227. #227 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Taz @ 214:
    Just curious Taz…does your group still wear white hoods these days, or have you modernized them with colors for the 21st century?

  228. #228 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    It’s interesting to see how sensitive people get about my posts, even when I’m not directly addressing them.

    Why are most of you so angry and defensive, and eager to prove Christians wrong?

    Is it because they’re right?

  229. #229 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    #176 Shaz

    Skill-testing question: What church does Shas belong to?

    I’m guessing Scientology

  230. #230 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Taz,

    I’m not a troll.

    There is a method to my madness.

    An enlightened soul would be able to see where I am heading.

  231. #231 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    Ray, by throwing the cracker away he discriminated against no one. He stopped no one from worshiping anything. Your constant claims of bigotry whenever someone challenges your beliefs is tiresome as has been pointed out a hundred times.

    For instance say someone were to take a Dawkin’s book from an atheist meeting and made a big kerfuffle about desecrating it saying that atheism was false and that we were deluded. Not one of us would claim persecution or bigotry.

    PZ has made no threats to kill anyone as multiple catholics have. He has not tried to get anyone fired for expressing beliefs as many MANY catholics have. And yet you claim WE are persecuting you, you claim WE are the ones with a problem of bigotry, singling out catholics out of all faiths. Get over yourself.

  232. #232 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Although Shas has a bit of an NOI ring to it.
    ——————-
    Bill Donahue pwn3d, Sam Harris critiqued, New Atheists
    for Dummies pt 6

  233. #233 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Er, Ray – try reading for comprehension next time. I asked you to provide evidence for hell other than the bible, since it’s just a (poorly edited) book of made-up stories – though it is good for deconverting christians, since almost all of ex-believers admit reading the bible helped them free themselves from religion.

    Oh, and before you use a term like ‘no true christian’ you might want to familiarise yourself with this:

    http://wikipedia.org/wiki/no_true_scotsman

    Oh, and for the record, Ray, I don’t hate you – or anyone else for that matter. I do pity you, though – much like I pity the sort of kids who wind up in the Special class at school – you know, the ones who sing a lot and aren’t allowed to use scissors.

    Though not quite as much – they don’t have a choice in what’s limiting them.

  234. #234 Michael J
    July 26, 2008

    shas:

    “It’s interesting to see how sensitive people get about my posts, even when I’m not directly addressing them.

    Why are most of you so angry and defensive, and eager to prove Christians wrong?

    Is it because they’re right?”

    You are absolutely correct and my fear drove me to this Christian Blog because I need to degrade all of its denizens because they make me feel insecure with their truthiness.

    Oh Wait ….

  235. #235 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    shas everyone saw where you were going; yes, yes we’re just the same as all the fundies BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Thing is, it’s false, stupid and has been repeated a thousand times before with much less tedium and belaboring. And, I might add, without the (whether you said it to “prove a point” or not) claim that PZ molested young boys.

    You are neither as original or cute as you think you are.

  236. #236 Ray
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger @ 222:
    According to Webster’s:
    Hate: extreme dislike or antipathy : loathing
    Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

    My statements are not opinion: Myers IS a Christian-hater, a bigot, insensitive, a jackass, and a despicable human being. Perhaps it is YOU who needs to learn what ‘hate’ and ‘bigot’ actually mean.

    And please, try not to hurt yourself while patting your own back over your insight, intelligence and articulation. Amazing, I feel like an ant in the presence of your greatness. I have to give you atheists credit…there seems to be no bounds to the size of your egos.

  237. #237 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Aw, c’mon NanuNanu! Loads of people tell me I’m cute!

    You’d love me if you knew me.

    Now, don’t take this to heart, but I think atheists have a tendency to be repetitive. I am, however, enjoying this blog.

  238. #238 chrisD
    July 26, 2008

    Ray, I don’t hate you. I just think the world would be better off without your silly beliefs mucking about in the brains of believers causing oh so many neuroses. Much like you think the world would be better off without atheists, I’m sure. You bigot, you.

  239. #239 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Joe!

    Quit hiding and answer my question, you great, big, smoldering hunk of a man!

  240. #240 Lago
    July 26, 2008

    I see he has worked on his laugh. So many guys ignore the laugh, and that is just about standards…

  241. #241 clinteas
    July 26, 2008

    Ray,

    sorry mate,but hate is a christian thing.Atheists dont hate,and in particular,do not believe that discussing,questioning or criticizing someone’s belief or religion constitutes hate.
    Again,thats a christian thing.
    We dont hate your religion or any other religion,we just dont believe in it.

  242. #242 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    “Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate.” – Lord Byron

    Posted by: Shas | July 26, 2008 12:25 AM

    FUCK Lord Byron

  243. #243 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    shas: You didn’t answer KM’s question: which side are you on and why?

  244. #244 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Ray @ 197 Oh no, since you are sharing your insanity with us, I will share my hatred with and for you and doubly the contempt I have for your state of mind. Your imaginary god never made an appearance on earth 2000 years ago or at any time because it is a figment of your demented brain. Do you see your god in human deformities, insanity, god morons draped over trees after an indiscriminate tornado tore through a town and leveled it’s houses of churchly insanity, or a bus going to or returning from a prayer meeting and winding up in the bottom of a canyon, with all the god morons screaming for their god to save them and nothing answers as there is nothing. Or the churches leveled by a lightning strike from the intelligently designed clouds bent on showing who is in charge? And of course those slimy freaking priests who had the gall to ignore this god when it told them to stop molesting all those children? And the wonderful Inquisition, who burned, tortured and killed innocent people who would not believe in your ghost god? Even some of those slimy priests who molested were sometimes killed in their own houses of demonic insanity, crying out for this god in unbelief at ignored pleadings. You will never show us your god, and I don’t just mean in the examples described above, but in other signs, such a pile of shit, a oily sheen on a window that have the religious morons in a frenzy of tongues and insane grovelling, and in so many other examples of religious insanity run amuck that stupefies credulity. Your imaginary god is nothing but nothing. Get it down here to smite me and show me who it’s imaginary powers. You cannot and will never do it as your imaginary god does not exist except in your demented brain. You will die with that afflicted brain and nothing will save you, especially from the worms who could care less if you were sane or a raving lunatic as you most certainly are. Hell, if I was a supreme being and one of my creations questioned my existence I would be down in a flash to prove that I don’t exist. Not believe in me! Why I’ll not appear in any guise that you will not recognize! You poor babbling subhuman; you were born with a wimper and will go out without a prayer, just lie there in death with no place to go. You will never see your god because it does not exist. Simple and realistic as that. Simple, except for a simpleton. Your days of worrying over insane crackers will come to naught, as your carcass will likely taste like that to those intelligently designed worms who don’t give a shit whether it is blessed or insane.

  245. #245 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    ChrisD,

    This is an honest question, without an ulterior motive.

    Please explain, in detail, how the world would be better off without Christians like Ray. How would your day-to-day life improve if all Christians were eradicated?

    I don’t mean life in general. I am just referring to your own life.

  246. #246 CHRISTIANESE
    July 26, 2008

    disgusting how dare Catholic Church true church proud love Lord rot in hell child porn strains credulity Christian contempt religion sick sick satanic sacrilege Most Holy Sacrament Altar Lord Savior Jesus Christ abomination punished your crimes died save soul God mercy soul God mercy soul God mercy soul “professor” flame antics strong God-believers justice tough balls buddy molest young boys acolytes deceiver Woe vile hate-filled vomitous spewing vehemence unacceptable tearing apart evil despicable fruits sins sadness violations children sins Catholics faiths “faithless” priests priests religious Bishops sinned greatly called accountability grave sins judged God God alone priests wisdom Truth love Christ holy priests Jesus church Peter rock church gates Hades perfect God purify cleanse Holy Church cleansing churches Catholic Church God’s perfect order evil sin stone heart hurt pain insult Catholics love Jesus Lord Savior hearts Repent Jesus hearts circumcision heart rebellion The evil one friend deceitful hatred vile lie incite raging anger violence eternal damnation kingdom of darkness too late Jesus Christ Savior loves you Father forgive desecration Holy Eucharist heart break crack Holy Eucharist Truth Jesus Body Soul Divinity Praised God Father Almighty infinite wisdom mercy salvation Jesus rusty nail Lord rusty nail Heart Host Heart Catholics unglued pain Jesus suffers humble suffer wrongly accused beaten spat humiliated crowned thorns dragged nailed Cross salvation Repent Jesus come heart Lord Savior Begone satan name of Jesus power Holy Spirit Jesus army God praying litany saints living deceased God mercy unrepentants Lord Mercy Eternal Father Body Blood Soul Divinity Lord Jesus Christ sins Sorrowful Passion Have Mercy God infinite Mercy forgive amusing academic elite spurned lover mother crack Christian-hater bigot insensitive jackass despicable atheists believe power misery condemn soul hell no hope misery loves atheists lords universe belittling beliefs disdain disrespect no moral boundaries no restraint 6-year olds loving hatred dearest darling phoniness hostility disguises dog crap atheists life earth nothing universe brain God atheists fringe scientific superstition nothing ego maniacal rudeness atheistic love-fest Lutheran Catholic insanity Corrupt idol worshipers hate Christians problems heck shit stupid communion wafer bat silly wafer believe God wafer crazy Christ one Church Holy Catholic Church sad heresy pride universe believer superstition devout Catholic Science NOTHING God given gifts universe popped GREATEST drivel brainwashed masses God-given scientific new gods mock Pathetic denies one true church heretic genuine honest

  247. #247 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    You, too, seem to be avoiding answering a question — the question you seemed so desperately to want to be asked. See post #209.

    As for Joe’s question, I don’t think he is suggesting that you are deluded but that one of the going scientific explanations of ghost-sightings is delusion. (Joe, please correct me if I’m wrong.)

  248. #248 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    ChrisD,

    I have a few questions.

    Please explain, in detail, how the world would be better off without Christians like Ray. How would your day-to-day life improve if all Christians were eradicated?

    I don’t mean life in general. I am just referring to your own life.

    On the other side of the coin, how do Christians negatively affect your life?

    Please provide details, because I am really trying to understand.

  249. #249 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    ChrisD,

    I have a few questions.

    Please explain, in detail, how the world would be better off without Christians like Ray. How would your day-to-day life improve or change if all Christians were eradicated?

    I don’t mean life in general. I am just referring to ChrisD’s life.

    On the other side of the coin, how do Christians negatively affect your life?

    Please provide details, because I am really trying to understand.

  250. #250 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Apologies. “As for Joe’s question” should read “as for the question you asked Joe”.

  251. #251 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    That’s right KM, one of the explanations is delusion, and it’s the best there is so far.

    Shas, next time you see a ghost present some evidence. We’ll look at it. Even a neutrino leaves a trace …

  252. #252 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    Just curious Taz…does your group still wear white hoods these days, or have you modernized them with colors for the 21st century?

    Since you’re obviously too dumb to understand, Ray, I’ll explain it to you. You label as bigots anyone who dares question your beliefs. But some people, and I believe Michael is among them, think questioning beliefs is a good thing. That’s why I feel your condemnation is actually an endorsement of this blog for anyone with an open mind.

  253. #253 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    I am on the side of understanding where all of your heads are at.

  254. #254 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    No one is talking about eradicating christians.

    NOTE THE WORDS

    He said the removal of their beliefs.

    huge difference.

  255. #255 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    Coward.

  256. #256 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Joe,

    I can’t provide evidence. I don’t have the equipment. But I have seen ghosts, and you are telling me that I haven’t.

    Ghost sightings are actually quite common. Do some research.

    And you will never be able to prove that I have indeed seen them. But that doesn’t mean I’m wrong and that you’re right.

  257. #257 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    #253

    That was possibly the most asinine question dodge ever.

  258. #258 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Shas seems to be stuttering. Funny how they come out of the Crossworks after 10pm
    ————————–

    New Atheists for Dummies Pt 4: PZ Myers possible last interview: Catholic terrorists in America

  259. #259 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    Delusions are also quite common.

    No one actually cares to prove that you, personally, have or have not seen ghosts. You asked what a good scientific explanation of ghost-sighting was. You were given one.

  260. #260 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Ray quoted Websters:

    a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

    See the words in bold, Ray? members of a group – not, funnily enough, crackers held sacred by the members of a group.

    Can you see the difference? Do you understand that crackers aren’t people? I know you think your jesus is in the cracker, but (sorry to ruin it for you) that doesn’t count.

    Scorn for ideas you don’t agree with – and/or consider foolish – isn’t hate, either – no matter how many times you tell yourself that it is. Expressing that scorn in a way that breaks no laws and harms no person is not hate.

    Do you disagree with homosexuality Ray? Do you disagree with atheists? Be careful; by your standards if you say you do that means you’re automatically hating atheists and gay people – and you wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite, would you Ray? Uh-oh, look out – we got ourselves a hater!

    My ego’s like a flame, Ray. Right now you’re fanning it to great heights with the oxygen of your ignorance. You can quench it readily enough by thinking and learning.

  261. #261 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Shas, I didn’t say you didn’t see ghosts.

    I’m saying that the explanation is delusion, hallucination. It is only in your brain.

    Unless you provide some evidence, there is no reason to look for ghosts anywhere else other that in your brain.

  262. #262 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Your “good” scientific explanation sucks.

    I prefer spiritual explanations. They’re way more satisfying and interesting.

    I also see the future. Can any of you explain it?

    And don’t tell me it’s coincidence. It happens way too often.

  263. #263 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    C’mon guys….I’m getting tired.

    Explain.

  264. #264 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Ray @ 212 and jose jacobs @ 213 No quarter to morons! Your imaginary god will not give you any either because it does not exist. You are alone against the Universe and the might of blatant reason as expressed on this site. We are omnipotent, not your phony god who will never appear to come down and beat the crap out of us. Man, that must really piss you off to have something that is nonexistent not even make an appearance to smite us. How does it feel to be alone and laughed and mocked at by mere humans. Let’s see your god now!

  265. #265 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Shas, it doesn’t work that way. What you prefer is irrelevant … more evidence for delusional thinking.

  266. #266 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    Why does delusion suck as a scientific explanation of ghost-sighting? (NB: Your preferences and what you find personally satisfying are irrelevant to what constitutes a good scientific explanation.)

    Coincidences, like delusions, happen quite often. One explanation for why it seems to happen so often (perhaps even more often than not): confirmation bias.

  267. #267 chrisD
    July 26, 2008

    Shas – I do not advocate eradicating Christians. Merely their superstitions. It’s also hard to take someone seriously when they accuse the blog owner of child molestation as their introductory statement.

    And to answer your question – it doesn’t have to affect my life for the better for it to be a worthwhile hope. Donating blood, building homes for the needy, canned good drives; these do not affect me positively personally, day to day, but they encourage goodness in the world and affect other people positively. I want people to think logically and rationally because it benefits us all when cooler heads prevail. The loss of religion is merely a byproduct of my true desire.

  268. #268 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Joe,

    I know that delusions are common, but I am not suffering from them.

    In fact, I can provide proof that I’m not suffering from delusions OR hallucinations.

  269. #269 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Shas, you said you can’t prove you saw ghosts. Now you can?

    You’re nothing but a troll, so shut up. I’m done with you.

  270. #270 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    People, please quit feeding the troll.

  271. #271 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Shas wrote:

    I prefer spiritual explanations. They’re way more satisfying and interesting.

    Plus you can just make them up to justify anything you want – no limits. Well, apart from intellectual honesty, but what’s that worth to anyone?

    Are you intending to start your own religion?

  272. #272 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    In an informal discussion with strangers, using pseudonyms, on the internet, you cannot actually provide proof that you are not experiencing delusions. Nor do we care. What is at issue is not whether or not you are suffering from delusions, but whether or not delusion is a good scientific explanation of ghost-sighting.

  273. #273 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    @268
    Then please do.

    Provide empirical evidence that the ghosts you saw were not the product of hallucinations or delusions.

  274. #274 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    KM,

    Your answer is typical of someone who doesn’t know me (and probably doesn’t want to).

    My family and friends can attest to the fact that I not only see the future (in all its technocolor detail) on a regular basis, but I often know what is happening to people in the present (i.e. when they are in a distant location).

    Where am I getting this knowledge from?

  275. #275 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    #252 Taz
    Shas Wrote:

    Taz…does your group still wear white hoods these days, or have you modernized them with colors for the 21st century?

    This is a common whine from professional Catlick victims. It is well known that the KKK denounced Catholics, although, there is no record of them hanging from trees in the Deep South that I’m aware of.

    Catlicks like to group themselves with Blacks, Mexicans and Jews, who were murdered in those days, but it’s helpful to know that the KKK has revised it’s by-laws, and hate-lists to allow Catlicks into their fruity little cult.

  276. #276 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Shas at several comments: After reading several of your comments you don’t appear to be a raving religionist, but do have a mania for seeing ghosts and other non-existent things. Which leads to this observation and question: Does Shas stand for “Should Have Assumed Sanity”?

  277. #277 NanuNanu
    July 26, 2008

    “My family and friends can attest to the fact that I not only see the future”

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND we’re done.

  278. #278 Joe Cracker
    July 26, 2008

    Scooter, thanks for the links (Acksis of Evil radio), it’s pretty cool. The Bill Donahue part was hilarious.

  279. #279 heliobates
    July 26, 2008

    @219

    No, I don’t expect YOU to do anything. All I ask is that YOU respect MY right to worship the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

    How exactly are you prevented from doing these things by any of the atheists that comment on this blog?

    Did Myers somehow destroy the last consecrated host in history?

    @227

    Just curious Taz…does your group still wear white hoods these days, or have you modernized them with colors for the 21st century?

    The Klan were exactly as Christian as the post-Civil War Southern culture from which it emerged. That they were not True Scotsman[TM] does nothing to prevent history from calling “plaid”.

  280. #280 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Okay, guys, I can provide medical documentation (if I wanted to, but I won’t because it’s confidential) that I am of sound mind and body (i.e. not subject to delusions or hallucinations, etc.)

    That’s what I meant. I can’t provide proof that I’ve seen ghosts, though. What I am saying is that your delusion theory does not apply to me.

    And I’m not a troll. Everything I have said is true, apart from my first comment. I simply assumed that freedom of speech was alive and well on this blog, regardless of how erroneous it may be.

  281. #281 clinteas
    July 26, 2008

    I think the Pope would be worried about the image of the catholic church if he knew what the mentally ill members of his sect excrete on this blog.

  282. #282 KM
    July 26, 2008

    No, Shas, my answer is typical of someone who maintains the normal standards for scientific evidence and good reason. The fact that you cannot think of a naturalistic explanation for these phenomena doesn’t mean that one doesn’t exist.

    If you’re genuinely interested in this kind of stuff, I’d recommend checking out Susan Blackmore’s work. Prof. Blackmore had a number of strange and apparently supernatural experiences (e.g., an out of body experience). She decided to put these sorts of paranormal experiences to the test and spent years researching and testing a wide range of such experiences (her own and others’). She found good scientific explanations for each one of them. I’m not recommending this with the aim of “converting” you, but to give you some direction in researching the experiences you have (again, on the supposition, perhaps false, that you’re genuinely interested in doing so).

  283. #283 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    I can see the future,

    check it out, oops too late on that one, try again….

    aw man, I almost had it….

    one more time

    dam it slipped into the past.

    I’m working on it

  284. #284 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Guys, he’s talking about watching the weather forecast on the television. And maybe catching episodes of Ghost Whisperer, Supernatural, The X-Files or, if he’s really old-school, a great old show called The Ghost and Mrs Muir – it starred Edward Mulhare, who would later go on to play Devon in Knight Rider.

    Scooter, that was Ray who alluded to the KKK – which was a bit stupid (even for him), since the KKK are a proud Christian organisation and always have been. He doesn’t realise they love the bible and the hatred it teaches as much as the papists do – just in a slightly different way.

  285. #285 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    I know all about Susan Blackmore – when I lived in England her theories were shoved down my throat more times than I care to remember.

    Her explanations are bland and unconvincing. She has never been able to satisfactorily explain why these things happen to me.

  286. #286 KM
    July 26, 2008

    PS, Shas (in re: the fact that you, your family, and your friends, can provide evidence for your prescience):

    There are standards that evidence as to meet in order to be counted, you know. Anecdotal evidence does not count.

  287. #287 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    ooops, got my kooks crossed

  288. #288 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    So, you choose good explanations based on how warm and fuzzy they make you feel?

    Alrighty, then. We are definitely done, here.

  289. #289 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Guys, why do you resort to insults and ridicule when faced with something you can’t explain?

  290. #290 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    By the way Ray, I was raised Catholic. My brothers and sisters still are, and I love them dearly.

  291. #291 silkworm
    July 26, 2008

    How can Jesus be literally present in a cracker when Jesus was not a literal historical figure to begin with?

    (If Jesus had existed he would have been mentioned in the works of Philo. Jesus was not mentioned in Josephus either, until the time of Eusebius, a well-known liar.)

  292. #292 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Warm and fuzzy feelings have nothing to do with it. I’m talking about seeing visions of deaths, accidents, etc. before they happen. I see what is going to happen, who it is going to happen to, and other detials (e.g. time of day, colors, surroundings, etc.)

  293. #293 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Shas

    if you wear a baseball cap, it cuts your overhead peripheral vision off dramatically.

    If this is the case, stop wearing the hat, and you won’t hit your head as often.

    For now, I’m predicting this bottle of Guiness will be gone shortly.

    Good luck

  294. #294 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    Look, if you’re really interested in finding out why you have the experiences you have, visit or otherwise contact the nearest university lab that studies the paranormal. They may not give you the explanation you want, but they should be able to give you an explanation.

    All the best,
    KM.

  295. #295 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Shas,

    Feel free to point out where I’ve insulted or ridiculed you.

  296. #296 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    Shas @ 289 No, we resort to insults and ridicule when faced with something that YOU can’t explain, especially when you assume we will accept them as true facts and let you off with a snicker

  297. #297 KM
    July 26, 2008

    “Warm and fuzzy feelings have nothing to do with it. I’m talking about seeing visions of deaths, accidents, etc. before they happen. I see what is going to happen, who it is going to happen to, and other detials (e.g. time of day, colors, surroundings, etc.)”

    I didn’t suggest that you choose to experience only those phenomena that make you feel warm and fuzzy. I suggested that you choose the explanations (for the above-mentioned phenomena) that make you feel warm and fuzzy.

  298. #298 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    # 291

    How can Jesus be literally present in a cracker when Jesus was not a literal historical figure to begin with?

    Because he was hiding in the cracker all along. Great place to hide from history, who the fuck writes about crackers?

  299. #299 chrisD
    July 26, 2008

    Shas – the reason you are being met with disbelief and non-answers is that claims from personal experience are unfalsifiable, meaning there is no way to confirm or deny that what you experienced was real. Thus the best you’re going to get is no explanation… it’s a pointless endeavor for the skeptic to fight your argument from experience fallacy.

    And if you have these powers then take the Randi challenge. A cool million if you succeed.

  300. #300 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    Damn you Scooter! I finished the last of my Guinness an hour ago and had to move on to lesser “beers”.

  301. #301 jagannath
    July 26, 2008

    Shas,

    Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary proof.

    Simplistic empirical study would be you telling me about me.

    Prove your ability.

  302. #302 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Scooter:

    Cheers! I’m predicting my bottle of Holsten will be empty shortly. I wonder how we can predict such things? We must just be really good at this whole prescience business…

  303. #303 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    (Sigh)…

    You are all children. When you don’t know the answer, you compensate by goofing off.

    I expected nothing less.

    Not everything in your narrow little world can be measured and proven.

    Measure your love for your friends, family, children, etc.

    Provide documented proof on how much you love them.

    You will never be able to.

    I’ve told you the truth. You can whistle in the dark and call me names, but that doesn’t change the reality.

    There is more to life than what can be measured empirically. I know this with certainty, and I feel sorry for people like you who don’t possess this confidence.

    I’m tired, and I wanna go to bed….

  304. #304 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Is there a name for this kind of troll? It’s not like anything I’ve seen before.

    A John Edwards Troll, perhaps? Maybe just a Woo Troll.

  305. #305 Enshoku
    July 26, 2008

    Fail. The beware the believers video is on my favorites list, this isn’t even funny enough to make bill donuhue offended. Float on films is losing it’s sexiness, too bad.

  306. #306 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    You have refused to deal with any substantive criticisms put to you and explanations given you, and have avoided answering any questions asked of you.

    I, for one, have not insulted you (at least not since my first comment to you) and have been trying to engage in a constructive, rational discussion about the various topics you’ve brought to the table. If you provide no evidence that meets the normal scientific standards and no otehr compelling reasons, especially for such contentious experiences as ghost-sighting and prescience, what can you reasonably expect but incredulity?

  307. #307 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Holy crap, sorry about the atrocious spelling and grammar in my last post. I forgot to preview again.

  308. #308 chrisD
    July 26, 2008

    Who the hell is goofing off? You offer us anecdotal evidence to prove you actually have these experiences and I tell you that it’s a fallacy. Nowhere did I call you a name. Can you point to someone calling you a name who also didn’t give you an explanation?

    You are boring, insufferable and inappropriately indignant. You’re lucky anyone fed you your troll food after your opening statement.

    Go on and storm off and forget all about how you fail at convincing us scornful, mean and immature atheists like a good little boy. Run along now.

  309. #309 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    WOWBANGER:

    Is there a name for this kind of troll?

    How about a Counselor Troyll ?

    Caution deep trekkie reference

  310. #310 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    Holbach,

    Oh, but I can explain it, but you won’t believe me.

    But here goes: there is an eternal, spiritual world beyond this one. That is where my knowledge of the future (which, of course, is part of eternity) comes from. This world is also where spirits, or ghosts, come from.

    Awareness of this spiritual world comes to some, but not all, people. I am one of them, and I personally know of several others.

    It really, truly surprises me when I meet with skepticism. I come across people like me on a regular basis. I don’t understand why you guys don’t. Maybe they keep their mouths shut when they’re around you, because they know you’ll make fun of them.

    Anyway, we are all destined for this eternal world when we die. This eternal world has two destinations: heaven or hell. Christians are simply trying to warn you that you will end up in one of them.

    Most of them are truly concerned for your welfare. They don’t hate you. If they get angry or insulting, it’s usually because they are frustrated and/or scared for you. They are also, and rightly so, offended when you insult the God of this eternal world, whom many live for and would die for.

    That’s my explanation. Take it or leave it.

  311. #311 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    What chrisD said.

    You want to play pariah? Then play pariah. Have fun.

  312. #312 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Shas:

    That’s not an “explanation” in that it does not say *why* you believe — or why we should believe — in ghosts, prescience, this spiritual world beyond our own. What you’ve just described are, in short, your hypotheses about the world we live in. An hypothesis is only worth the evidence and reason that supports it and, in your story, those are in short supply.

  313. #313 Shas
    July 26, 2008

    I really have to sleep, guys. I’ll continue this tomorrow if you want me to. You’re obviously in a different time zone.

    By the way, I’m a chick. I get confused when you refer to me as “he”.

  314. #314 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Wow That was original.

    It’s already been a hack Burbank TV show, Touched by an Angel. Or is it Angle, I always get those mixed up.

    I am predicting I’m going to open another Guiness, and tell the kids to go to bed.

  315. #315 KM
    July 26, 2008

    I’m willing to continue this tomorrow if (a) you’regenuinely interseted, (b) you’re actually willing actively to engage in a rational discussion, and (c) you cut it out with this pariah thing.

    Good night, Shas.

  316. #316 Richard
    July 26, 2008

    Shas — you are making what is known as a naked assertion. You are asserting things with no proof or evidence or reason. I can say I can fly faster than a speeding bullet. I can say I can do this because I am from the planet Krypton. I can say I know many other kryptonians, and we can all fly.

    But that is not proof. It’s just a string of assertions, bare naked of any evidence. Evidence would be something like a youtube video or AP article documenting my flying. That would be a start, but not conclusive. Evidence would be something that is independently verifiable — a double blind experiment.

    Not more naked assertions…

  317. #317 BGT
    July 26, 2008

    Shas,

    When you said in #311 take it or leave, you have closed the door on yourself. By stating that it is your interpretation that has to be the right one, you have locked the door against reason.

  318. #318 KM
    July 26, 2008

    That round of inaccurate typing is clearly a sign that I should just stop typing. Also, the beer has run dry.

    Good night, Pharyngulites.

  319. #319 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    By the way, I’m a chick.

    I knew it, you have a bunch of those angel twinky things on the Mantle,huh?

    You should have cashed the chick thing in earlier, this is, after all, the Internets, where men are men, and women are men and teenage girls are cops.

  320. #320 heliobates
    July 26, 2008

    @303

    Not everything in your narrow little world can be measured and proven.

    Measure your love for your friends, family, children, etc.

    Provide documented proof on how much you love them.

    You will never be able to.

    Stop asking for “proof” you have no intention of accepting.

    You are all children. When you don’t know the answer, you compensate by goofing off.

    Ridicule is the inevitable and the only appropriate response to someone who argues in bad faith.

  321. #321 heliobates
    July 26, 2008

    Oops!

    Properly formatted:

    @303

    Not everything in your narrow little world can be measured and proven.

    Measure your love for your friends, family, children, etc.

    Provide documented proof on how much you love them.

    You will never be able to.

    Stop asking for “proof” you have no intention of accepting.

    You are all children. When you don’t know the answer, you compensate by goofing off.

    Ridicule is the inevitable and the only appropriate response to someone who argues in bad faith.

  322. #322 andyo
    July 26, 2008

    Well, I’m gonna have to stand corrected. catholics, at least in the Americas, are more batshit insane than the muslim extremists. PZ some time ago even offered to desecrate the friggin koran, and there were just a few comments.

    I am sorry I thought my former religion was a religion of more reasonable people than the religion of Islam. I obviously didn’t grasp the insanity. Luckily, and I just realized this, where I come from, people (like my family and friends) are not real catholics, only by name and tradition, and one hour a week at the most. Luckily.

  323. #323 Richard
    July 26, 2008

    Oh, on the subject of quantifiable love for friends, family, children, etc. — of course I can quantify that.

    Love is not some ephemereal, non-physical thing. Love = actions. If I beat my spouse, but say I love her with all my heart and do it all for her own good and who are you to tell me what I feel inside — I love her! — clearly, I would be full of shit.

    One can quantify love for others by observing how they treat others. It’s quite easy.

    Also, emotional states have been clearly identified as neurochemical reactions in the brain — including the state of love.

    By way of providing a start of evidence for the ‘love = chemical reaction’ claim, I’ll throw this link out there: http://health.msn.com/womens-health/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100155399

    There are dozens of other articles and studies on the chemical effects of ‘trust’ and ‘love’ — you can google them for yourself.

  324. #324 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Now what are we going to do?

    check this out, it’s kinda funny, submitted for your approval:
    Bill Deny the Creation Science Guy

    it’s twelve years old, we’re ahead of the curve in TX

  325. #325 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    I’m going to stand by my label of “attention troll”. I don’t believe the psychic bullshit for a moment. She didn’t start with anything like that, it’s what she hit on to draw responses. First she tried the “dearest and darling” crap and dropped it when no one rose to the bait. If you look back at her posts there is not one substantive thing in them. Ignore her.

  326. #326 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    scooter – I thought it was just alright until Isaac Hummer started talking. Now I see the light!

  327. #327 silkworm
    July 26, 2008

    In the beginning was the Cracker, and the Cracker was with God, and the Cracker was God.

  328. #328 Duae Quartunciae
    July 26, 2008

    Mike Edmondson has discovered something that many others before him have known…. product placement in the Pharyngula blog is solid gold advertising.

    And that reminds me! PZ has recently posted on global warming! (Dr Chilingar, AKA Dr Chill.) Good choice. Just as with evolution, there are limitless reserves of pseudoscientific stupidity in the various blogs and pundits that attempt to hold the line against those evil scientists. I’ve also posted on this as well, with a response to the The Fourth and Final Discount Monk’s Tongue Lord Chrysalis Murmurer of Peter Benchley: The APS and global warming: What were they thinking?.

  329. #329 Malcolm
    July 26, 2008

    Ray,
    Since you seem to think so little of atheists, let me ask you this:
    How do you feel able the Catholic church’s official policy of not cooperating with police enquiries into paedophilia by priests?
    How about the official church policy of having African priests preach that condoms help spread AIDS?
    Be careful how you answer. Both of these policies were written personally by the man you call The Pope.

  330. #330 Rayven Alandria
    July 26, 2008

    I pause at post 278 or so to make a comment and then I go back to reading. I feel the need to say something before playing catch-up on the posts.

    If anyone is still talking to Shas, please stop.

    Do not allow her/him/it to feel the satisfaction of being in control of conversation. It’s arrogance and smugness is making me ill. Creatures like Shas need to be completely ignored. Completely and utterly. Your silence is the best weapon you have, it is a powerful weapon, please use it.

  331. #331 PB
    July 26, 2008

    183
    “Oh not more papist cretins. Hmm, how to get rid of them?”

    Yeah, you got a big problem over there in USA. :-).
    I spent 20 years in a communist country under an atheist regime. You people sound very much like communists activists.

    OK, now you can start to rage over my comment. In the mean time I will enjoy my weekend in the German Alps.

    P.S: after you cool off you try to read Solzhenitsyn. Learn what the atheist communists did in Russia and the whole Eastern-Europe.

  332. #332 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Shas wrote:

    But here goes: there is an eternal, spiritual world beyond this one. That is where my knowledge of the future (which, of course, is part of eternity) comes from. This world is also where spirits, or ghosts, come from.

    Awareness of this spiritual world comes to some, but not all, people. I am one of them, and I personally know of several others.

    I’m not going to argue with you about your assertions, Shas – but I will point out to you that the very people whose beliefs you are attempting to defend (i.e. catholics) have a name for someone who experiences what you claim to experience.

    Witch.

    And they weren’t very nice to witches – unless you consider torturing, burning, drowning and generally murdering to be ‘nice’. I can guarantee you that if you met Bill Donohue (the nice man who prompted all of this) and told him what you’ve told us here on this thread, he’d have even more revulsion for you than he does for PZ.

    You say you can see the future? Try studying some history – here a key word to start with: Spanish Inquisition.

    Now, atheists might not feel your beliefs have any basis in reality, but I can guarantee you that you stand a much better chance in a world where christians aren’t in power than you do in one where they are.

    We’d let you believe what you want to believe; at worst we’ll mock you for it. They’ve got a book which tells them that, not only is it okay for them to kill you, but which – in plain terms – orders them to.

    ‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’ is right there in their bibles, and your idea of spiritualism is considered witchcraft by pretty much every sect of christianity. I’m fairly sure Islam isn’t too keen on the idea either. I don’t know about Judaism, but I’ll have a stab at it not being too popular with them either.

    There are christians in the USA who, if they heard you claim what you’ve claimed, would feel you deserve to be killed – or, at least, tortured until you converted to their version of christianity. You think I’m kidding? These are the same people who refuse to take their sick children to the doctor because they believe in the power of prayer; children have died because of it only recently – PZ even wrote about it.

    They let their own children die because of what they read in the bible. If people are capable of letting their own child die, do you think they’re incapable of doing you, a stranger who admits to doing something described as evil by their holy book, harm?

    Atheists are more on your side than christians are. We might mock your beliefs but we’d never harm you for them.

  333. #333 Jesus, called Christ
    July 26, 2008

    Anyway, we are all destined for this eternal world when we die.

    Sure.

    This eternal world has two destinations: heaven or hell.

    You are rather amusingly wrong.

    They are also, and rightly so, offended when you insult the God of this eternal world, whom many live for and would die for.

    The God of the eternal world does not give a shit about those who think they live for him, or for those who die for him.

    And as for insult… God not only is not bothered by insults, he actually finds them funny. George Carlin is doing a God-insulting shtick right now, to a large and appreciative audience, and God is just occasionally heckling him.

  334. #334 epsilon
    July 26, 2008

    Shas said – “I simply assumed that freedom of speech was alive and well on this blog, regardless of how erroneous it may be.”

    I wish people would learn what freedom of speech is. You are free to say whatever you want, but you are not free to say whatever you want with no consequences. You made a remark insinuating that PZ was a child molester. Notice that no one said that you should not have been able to say this. Instead, they use your saying to form an opinion about you. So, you are most definitely free to say it and live with the consequences. Too bad you’re too fucking stupid to realize this,

  335. #335 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    PB, #331

    You mistake rage for irritation. I meant get rid of them from the blog, not the world. I find reading through their repetitive rants tiresome to say the least.

    Most, if not all, atheists haven’t ever wanted to kill anyone – and, as I’m sure you’d find if you looked/read thoroughly, you’d find that even in communist countries it was far more complicated than simple atheism vs. theism. I’m not an expert, but there’s plenty of arguments and evidence to suggest other important factors. The Khmer Rouge, for example, killed anyone who they thought was intellectual – religious or otherwise.

    If atheists were truly against the religious they wouldn’t be atheists (atheism literally means ‘without god/s’) – they’d be antitheists, i.e. ‘opposed to god/s’.

    Atheists, for the most part, just want true secularism – where the religious don’t get special treatment because they claim to believe in god. I’d personally love it if every religious person freed themselves from their nonsensical beliefs and could live a better life because of it, but that it’s very unlikely scenario doesn’t make me hate them for it.

  336. #336 Claudia
    July 26, 2008

    Michael Blaine @ 165:
    “The only thing “insane” on this blog is the disrespect for the beliefs of others.”

    This from the Ray who was lambasting Michael for his heresy; doesn’t sound too respectful to me. Its ‘cryin-crazy-amaza-crazy’* how the irony flows when talking with religious people.

    *(Or have we stopped making old SNL references after Brenda-gate?)

  337. #337 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    I caught the Shas trolling the Cephalopod thread:

    Professor,
    Do you have a small penis?

    Posted by: Shas | July 25, 2008 10:16 PM

    Gaping Vagina, Ms Shas? They all seem small in a wizard’s hat. Learn to do some of the exercises, but know there is only so much you can do to correct cavernous hand me down genital genetics.

    Education is important, train the males to come in at a 45 degree angle for necessary friction. Many women with your disorder have managed to mate. Maintaining a monogamous relationship may be more difficult without proper psychological, economic, or physical restraints.

    Good luck

  338. #338 uriel
    July 26, 2008

    John of several #’s-

    Since you seem unwilling to actually take any meaningful stand on the copypastes you’ve presented,I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Perhaps it was satire, or sardonic, or simply an objective “all the news that’s in the news” kind of thing. But, for the record:

    In 2001, this part of the Tenure Code was invoked against a professor at UMN because he had images of child porn on his computer. It should now be invoked against Myers.

    The only way anyone could be more fuck-witted than the person who actually said that, is to be someone who, given the gift of hindsight, actually goes on to endorse such an insane equivocation. If you are not one of the latter, I apologize. If, on the other hand, you are one, I just want to say: it scares me to think that I share an existence with anyone who’s moral compass is so blatantly and fundamentally out of whack.

  339. #339 Taz
    July 26, 2008

    PB – I love Solzhenitsyn – “One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich” is one of my favorite books. But the idea that the atrocities of communist Russia were due to atheism is absurd. Stalin would have co-opted any belief (or non-belief) system to maintain his hold on power. There have been plenty of tyrants who used religion to the same end. By the way, I didn’t make the comment about getting rid of the “papist cretins”, but I’m quite certain the author meant from this blog, not from the country.

  340. #340 scooter
    July 26, 2008

    Stalin would have co-opted any belief (or non-belief) system to maintain his hold on power.

    Stalin was raised in a seminary to become a Priest, he learned from the best about manipulating the softheaded and excommunicating the heretics.

  341. #341 Timothy Wood
    July 26, 2008

    HAHAHAHAHA!

  342. #342 TJ
    July 26, 2008

    My two cents, and support and laughter for PZ!

    I feel that any god that created the whole universe has the time ( after all, he made time, right?) to go to all of us heathens and say “hey, knock it off!” If he can’t be bothered to take the time to do so, then he isn’t worth worshiping. If he feels that the poorly spelled and misquoted responses and violent actions of his sheep are sufficient message to those of us who use the gifts he has ostensibly given us to the best advantage, then to the Lake of Fire I go, without fear, anger, or resentment. A being capable of creating a universe, a being ostensibly of perfect love and perfect truth, would not treat those who follow him any differently than those who say, “I wonder what’s REALLY out there?”

    If the sole and holy words of their god are a list of conflicting stories and contradictory directives, then that god isn’t worth wasting time or money on. Making claims about omnipotence and omnipresence are all well and good, but I have a brain, given (ostensibly) to me by the Sky-Father, and eyes, and hands to see and shape my world. If he wants me to believe in him, I’m sure he’ll let me know.

    Arguments have been made demonstrating that godless atheists also have murdered millions and denied any entrance into their minds of any philosophy other than pragmatic utilitarianism. This argument can also be made against all other faiths, as well. It is indicative of a deeper aspect of human nature that permits expediency and anger to defeat reason and benevolence.

    Prof. Myers, you have provoked these thoughts in me by your actions and the responses to your actions, and for that I am in your debt. You are a more brilliant teacher than you are given credit for. I should be doing my homework, but I wanted to look at squids for a while before I did so.
    And here I am.

    But I have seen in history that there is always a flaw in the agenda of the iconoclasts – they rarely seek to provide a just or adequate replacement for the institutions they destroy. On what grounds, I ask for curiosity’s sake, does any atheist intend to establish a code for moral and just behavior? Or is that the wrong question; do atheists seek nothing to replace the bases for codes of justice and ethical behavior?

    While I see much that is wrong with the current interpretations of religions by their followers, I wonder if compromise with atheists is possible. Under US law, it is required that we not oppress or suppress modes of thought; only actions that are detrimental to society or individuals within that society.

    This is what keeps me up at night in a very real sense; that without some sort of commonly accepted goals and ideals, a society is doomed to degradation and eventual collapse into one form of totalitarianism or another. A process and rules have to be established that all can agree on. This is what occupies my spare time, and I thought I would share for others to think on and post on.

    Best of luck PZ, don’t let them get you down.

  343. #343 Haeron
    July 26, 2008

    Learn what the atheist communists did in Russia and the whole Eastern-Europe.

    Learn that they didn’t do it in the name of atheism. Read about witch burnings or the Crusades.

  344. #344 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Taz, #339, wrote:

    By the way, I didn’t make the comment about getting rid of the “papist cretins”, but I’m quite certain the author meant from this blog, not from the country.

    Yeah, that was me. And you’re exactly right. Plus, considering I suspect I’m in a different country from PB, I don’t know how he would think that getting rid of the catholics in the country he’s in is going to help me at all.

    From what I can tell the main reason any group who’ve taken power would want to do away with religion is because of the competition. And it’s not like christians in power have held back from persecuting non-christians or christians of other sects.

    Why christians don’t realise secularism helps them as much as it helps us is beyond me.

  345. #345 Manlius
    July 26, 2008

    Dr. Myers, for a guy who says “question everything,” you certainly hate to be questioned.

  346. #346 C.W.
    July 26, 2008

    Theresa said:

    Woe-never have I heard of such name calling, vile and hate-filled vomitous spewing forth with such vehemence.

    Try reading the Bible some time.

  347. #347 uriel
    July 26, 2008

    What the hell-

    Professor,

    I heard you like to molest young boys. True or false?

    and

    Were you attempting to recruit PZ for the priesthood or simply telling us that that is your ass-piration?

    Really- some of you on both sides really need to grow the fuck up. Child molestation is exactly one thing- a serious, horrible crime against innocents, committed by a wide variety of _individuals_ of various levels of faith and non-faith, and across many worldviews. What it is not is:

    a) a universal, or even main, proclivity of either Catholics or atheists, or in fact any institution, philosophy or movement apart from the likes of NAMBLA,

    b) a convenient and valid debate tactic, or

    c) anything approaching humorous.

    Leveling unsubstantiated accusations of pedophilia against ideological opponents in an internet debate is every bit as witty, insightful, and impressive as making gleeful appeals to prison rape in the name of some sort of schadenfreude. Which is to say- it isn’t.

    Until either one of you, or the several others happily leveling this accusation back and forth, can support your assertions with something approaching actual facts- you should just just shut the hell up. Your antics only serve to diminish the real pain and suffering involved.

    Somethings lend themselves to witty banter- and others don’t. Adults should be able to tell the difference.

    Really, some of you need to grow the fuck up.

  348. #348 Rayven Alandria
    July 26, 2008

    My magical Atheist powers tell me Shaz is not a female. It is a male pretending to be a young, slutty female. It is also probably Ed or St.whoeverthefuck he is, Michael, or someone they know. I think the seriously disturbed ones are coming over on the same crackerbrain boat.

  349. #349 uriel
    July 26, 2008

    Oh- and more to the point:

    Pretty funny video.

    Nice job, especially considering the turnover time. Hats off, and such.

  350. #350 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    If this experiment has proved nothing else it has at least shown that the catholics have a similar fringe of batshit loons as the protestants do.

    Whackjobs no matter whether the guy up the front wears a dress or not.

  351. #351 uriel
    July 26, 2008

    #350

    If this experiment has proved nothing else it has at least shown that the catholics have a similar fringe of batshit loons as the protestants do.

    Whackjobs no matter whether the guy up the front wears a dress or not.

    True ‘dat.

  352. #352 Emmet Caulfield
    July 26, 2008

    uriel,

    Nobody says child-rape is a particular proclivity of Catholics or even Catholic clergy. The fact remains, however, that the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church continue to aid, abet, and enable child-rapists in their ranks, protect them from the due process of law, and they have an internationally coordinated policy of non-cooperation with law enforcement investigating child sexual abuse. Until the day they stop enabling child-rape and start cooperating with the law, the Catholic Church is a child-rape enablement mafia and nobody should give them a break or let up on them for one nanosecond.

  353. #353 Nibien
    July 26, 2008

    Shas is like that fat girl that plays World of Warcraft and constantly talks in chat channels for attention.

    Except seemingly significantly less intelligent. At least they tend not to believe in magical spirits telling them the future.

  354. #354 BobC
    July 26, 2008

    The Catholics who put their hard earned money into the collection basket every Sunday are paying the church’s legal bills for their child molesting priests. They could save that money or spend it on themselves. Instead they willingly help pay the costs of child abuse. There’s a sucker born every minute.

  355. #355 Nick Gotts
    July 26, 2008

    how dare you insult the Catholic Church? – Julie

    Because it no longer has the power of life and death over us. We aim to keep it that way.

  356. #356 Richard Harris
    July 26, 2008

    My crane rocks, your skyhook sucks.

    If your crane rocks, it miost probably is not securely anchored down. This is extrememly dangerous, & could result in a fatal accident. Check your H & S procedures, because you wouldn’t want the death of innocent people on your conscience, & you could also be found guilty of manslaughter.

    As a structural engineer, I have observed evidence that belief in skyhooks is quite common when people, even builders by trade, want to alter roofs, without benefit of professional advice.

    This raises an interesting question. If accidents result from insecurely anchored cranes, or collapsing roofs, how does god sort out all of the consequences of his justice on the people he indirectly hurts as a result of smiting the principal victims? What about the bereaved relatives, let alone the widows & orphans? And if god arranged the collapse, is the operative found to be at fault by police investigations & courts of law really guilty? I mean, he ought to be able to claim, “God made me do it”. All accidents could be seen as acts of god, in which case there’d be no way of determining human guilt.

    Come on religious believers, answer me these questions. And I don’t want to hear, “God works in mysterious ways”. Only an idiot could accept that as an answer.

  357. #357 Nick Gotts
    July 26, 2008

    Or could it be that most of you don’t actually believe the cracker is god? – Taz,

    I suspect none of them really believe that, although some may sincerely say they believe it. Beliefs are dispositional properties of agents – if we know what an agent believes, we can make better predictions of that agent’s actions, including but not limited to what they say. If they did believe it, the reaction would have been far greater than we have seen: millions would have marched to demand God’s safe return, thousands would have set out to resuce him, the Vatican would have got involved. I further suspect that belief in transubstantiation is pretty much impossible for someone raised in most parts of the modern world: industrialisation has changed the way people think about the world, and what can and cannot happen, very deeply.

  358. #358 Logicel
    July 26, 2008

    Scooter, Counselor Troyll is most excellent!

    Wooers are maddening, there are some that post at Steve Novella’s blogs (including Science Based Medicine) whose focus can be summarized that they are the true skeptics, the true non-dualists (matter is really spirit), their hotline is directly hooked up to nature (who loves and cares for us) and this hotline apparently informs them that nature is really supernatural.

    They are a confused bunch and most likely unable to handle reality as much as the common variety religite. However, they live in times where they can choose from many brands of supernatural beliefs, so though they may appear more modern, their beliefs are just the same primitive ones–they sense something out there, so that simple sensing means that there is. Instead, they view this tricky funcitoning of their brain as evidence of something that has no evidence. In a way, they are being fooled bigtime by their own brains.

    They are unable to either to grasp or they are ignorant of the knowledge that shows that their ‘sensing’ is an understandable part of the way the human brain evolved in its inelegant, non-intelligent designed manner.

    We only move ahead in our knowledge base by finding evidence to back our claims and continuing to build upon that base with more evidence-based knowledge, and so forth. The wooers are silly and lazy, and they think that realists/materialists are cold, calculating, and blind. The wooers at present are seriously damaging the practice of science-based medicine so they are not just a bunch of silly, harmless people.

    Anyways, for those willing to continue the discussion with Shaz, wooers can continue with their nonsense ad nauseam just like any other dogmabot.

  359. #359 Benjamin Franklin
    July 26, 2008

    Theresa @ #123

    To the pharngula and his acolytes–the followers of the deceiver: Woe-never have I heard of such name calling, vile and hate-filled vomitous spewing forth with such vehemence.

    Don’t get out much, do you, hon?

    I’ve seen more spewing on an interview by Bill O’Reilly.

    Oh, don’t worry about it. … Here, take a cracker. I promise, by the time you’re done eating it, you’ll feel right as rain.

    .
    ChristOCrackersAvailable in red, or blue, it’s your choice

    ..
    .

  360. #360 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Nick Gotts, #357

    Yeah, it became pretty clear after the first few days that it was just a lunatic fringe of catholics who were going apeshit over the cracker. The rest? Yeah, they tick the boxes marked ‘Catholic’ on the forms, and sit through the voodoo dance ceremonies, but I can’t imagine many of them think it’s important for anything other than tradition.

    I kept asking the trolls if it was such the monstrous, vicious attack on catholicism they kept on claiming it was, why hadn’t the Pope stepped in to reassure the faithful in their hour of need?

    Not a lot of responses to that.

  361. #361 Sauceress
    July 26, 2008

    Hey..it’s been three days now. Think the cracker has risen yet? Imagine its first thoughts: Boy you folk here on earth have really turned this place into a dump! Wait…WTF…another nail hole in my holey personage?

  362. #362 Emmet Caulfield
    July 26, 2008

    Nick Gotts #355,

    No, no, no: the question was “how dare you insult the Catholic Church?”, not “why do you insult the Catholic Church?”.

    To answer the original question, it’s done like this:

    Fuck the Catholic Church for the child-rape abettors’ mafia that they are; fuck the Pope for coordinating the criminal cover-up; fuck the three previous Popes for instigating and continuing the evil cover-up; fuck the bishops for “following orders” (the Nuremberg defence) and not standing up to the Vatican’s evil conspiracy; and fuck anyone who puts a penny in the pockets of the evil corrupt bastards for as long as they continue not cooperating with police, I wish there really was a hell for the evil stinking scum to burn in.

    That’s how. I could go on (I’m not a single-issue Vatican hater), but you get the general idea.

  363. #363 Moses
    July 26, 2008

    #23you people are disgusting. how dare you insult the Catholic Church? It is the only true church and I am proud to say that. I love the Lord, and I will not rot in hell someday like you people.

    Posted by: Julie | July 25, 2008 6:31 PM

    None of us will. There is no god. There is no hell. You’re so completely ignorant to the history of your religion and how it evolved from a POLYTHESTIC, HUMAN SACRIFICING religion to a monotheistic, wackaloon religion it’s funny when you start talking “the word” and “the way it is.”

    Because through much of your religion’s history, both were completely different.

    So different that they as related to each other now as bats and people. Which is to say, barely at all.

  364. #364 Plant
    July 26, 2008

    “So different that they as related to each other now as bats and people. Which is to say, barely at all.”

    Ah, but perhaps you are forgetting Batman, also known as…

    The Dark Knight! In theaters now!

  365. #365 Emmet Caulfield
    July 26, 2008

    Moses #363,

    Catholicism is as close to polytheism as makes no difference. My grandfather (a pious Catholic) prayed to Mary and Padre Pio and a metric shitload of saints. I haven’t the faintest clue if he ever prayed to God (btw, it was a stupid idea calling your god “God”). Then there’s the whole Trinity thing. I don’t know how they claim it’s monotheistic with a straight face.

  366. #366 OctoberMermaid
    July 26, 2008

    “I don’t know how they claim it’s monotheistic with a straight face.”

    They worship a cracker. Nothing is too stupid or outlandish for them to believe.

  367. #367 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Emmet Caulfield #365, wrote:

    …and a metric shitload of saints

    Heretic! Everyone knows the only true measure of saints is an imperial shitload!

  368. #368 Benjamin Franklin
    July 26, 2008

    wowbagger @ #360

    The rest? Yeah, they tick the boxes marked ‘Catholic’ on the forms, and sit through the ceremonies, but I can’t imagine many of them think it’s important for anything other than tradition.

    I don’t know about that. Earlier this month, at the Atlanta Pharyngulafest, I asked PZ if he thought that Ken Miller really believed in transubstantiation, and PZ said “Yes, he does.” I was incredulous, so I asked – Really? and PZ said, “Yes, really.”

    Going into this fracas, I thought that it was only a very small minority who really believed in the miracle, but it appears to be a significantly higher percentage, maybe over half.

    Any educated guesses from the peanut gallery as to the percentage of Catholics who believe in the presence of God in the wafer?

    .
    this post brought to you by:

    ChristOCrackers The perfected cracker for any occasion..

    ..
    .

  369. #369 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Benjamin Franklin, #368

    Really? I guess I don’t know a huge number of catholics – and I’m in Australia which, despite World Youth Day (a misnomer on several levels), is apathetic when it comes to religion. There’s probably a lunatic fringe here as well, but I can’t imagine anyone here going to the effort of death threats over the cracker – unless it stopped someone from going to a) the football (whichever code you favour), or b) the pub.

    Earlier this month, at the Atlanta Pharyngulafest, I asked PZ…

    Glad I could give you an opportunity to name-drop :)

  370. #370 True Bob
    July 26, 2008

    btw, it was a stupid idea calling your god “God”

    On a planet named “Planet”, a god named “God” made a man named “Man”.

    Could it be more generic?

  371. #371 True Bob
    July 26, 2008

    Ooh, forgot to mention:

    Later, the god named “God” became a messiah, using the name “Joe Messiah”.

  372. #372 Kate
    July 26, 2008

    Well, I guess the rabid catholics here haven’t bothered to read their bible lately. If anyone is a candidate for their imaginary “bad dog box” (hell) it would be themselves.

    Their faith is so weak, so tenuous… they pray in public to “demonstrate” their “faith”, they cling to symbols and idols, they value symbols more than they do their own god’s wondrous creation, they attempt to usurp their own god’s divine right to be the only fit judge of his creation, they question his “plan”…

    All in all, they’re not really very good at this whole “worshiping god” thing, are they?

  373. #373 Iain Walker
    July 26, 2008

    #356:

    My crane rocks, your skyhook sucks.

    If your crane rocks, it miost probably is not securely anchored down.

    You could also have mentioned that a skyhook that sucks is going to need periodic maintenance in order to prevent clogging.

  374. #374 clinteas
    July 26, 2008

    These last 2 weeks have helped me realize that the catholic church in particular is but one big reservoir for the intelllectually weak and mentally unstable,so yes I think that quite a few of them actually believe the transsubstantiation shit.

    And they do not seem to feel bound to follow whats written in their holy book anymore than PZ or me,they just take the bits that suit them and forget about the rest.

  375. #375 Nick Gotts
    July 26, 2008

    I kept asking the trolls if it was such the monstrous, vicious attack on catholicism they kept on claiming it was, why hadn’t the Pope stepped in to reassure the faithful in their hour of need? – wowbagger

    Indeed you did, and the only response I recall seeing was along the lines of “He’s got better things to do.” Better things than getting his kidnapped Lord and Savior released? We deduce that contrary to common belief, the Pope is not a Catholic! Hm, I wonder how many of the trolloons posting about the cracker were Sedevacantists?

  376. #376 Benjamin Franklin
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger

    Glad I could give you an opportunity to name-drop :)

    Yes, Thank you for that. Now, about that Molly nomination…

    ChristOCrackers Better than a Molly nomination

    NO WAY!

    ..
    .

  377. #377 silkworm
    July 26, 2008

    Catholicism is an evil cult that turns many of its members literally insane, and renders them incapable of protecting their own children from the cult’s sexual predations.

  378. #378 Graculus
    July 26, 2008

    one of the going scientific explanations of ghost-sightings is delusion.

    Just to change the topic to someting interesting, certainly ghost sighting *can* be delusions, but there are external physical phenomenon that are also associated with “hauntings”. It’s just that these real experiences are interpreted (and over-interpreted) as “ghosts”.

    Look up the work of a real “ghost”-hunter, engineer (I am not making this up) Vic Tandy, and others, who have been investigating infrasonics.

  379. #379 Graculus
    July 26, 2008

    As a structural engineer, I have observed evidence that belief in skyhooks is quite common when people, even builders by trade, want to alter roofs, without benefit of professional advice.

    Did you just diss Olga?

    Shame on you!

  380. #380 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    I don’t think even with all our needling, ridicule, appeal to reason or online psychiatric meddling is going to rid Shas of her ghosts and assorted isane myriad brain configurations. I would rather battle religious ghosts than waste time with questionable and useless baiting with quasi-religious morons. Shas, if you are still here try another site to vent your cranial maunderings. But heck, don’t feel that you are alone, for there are millions in your self-induced state that would love to exchange phantoms. May the un-force be with you.

  381. #381 boondock saint
    July 26, 2008

    you guys are a buncha tools and myers needs to get fvcked

  382. #382 comewithmetohell
    July 26, 2008

    Well you are going to hell because of a cracker.

    So do 80% of the people in the video at

    http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/

    since they do not believe in the right god. I can’t believe that people really believe in something like hell…


    The idea of hell was born of ignorance, brutality, fear, cowardice, and revenge. This idea testifies that our remote ancestors were the lowest beasts. Only from dens, lairs, and caves, only from mouths filled with cruel fangs, only from hearts of fear and hatred, only from the conscience of hunger and lust, only from the lowest and most debased could come this most cruel, heartless and bestial of all dogmas.

    Robert Green Ingersoll – “The Great Infidels” (1881)

  383. #383 blf
    July 26, 2008

    Wowbagger@367:

    Heretic! Everyone knows the only true measure of saints is an imperial shitload!

    Heretic! The vatican uses the metric system.

    There is a unit of measurement in use there not in use in reality: The woo. I understand it’s used to count both saints and angels (pins optional), weight up both the preyers and the prayers, and also measures the punishment administered to the members of the clan who are so careless they are caught with the alterboys. I suspect it is also a measurement of the amount of euchrist in a cracker.

  384. #384 Holbach
    July 26, 2008

    loony boony saint @ 381 No, we are all independent thinkers and mockerers against loony saint brains from the boondocks of insane religionists. We are omnipotent as your imaginary god is not. Stay in the boonies and cultivate those moron saints.

  385. #385 JoJo
    July 26, 2008

    myers needs to get fvcked

    PZ Myers is a bit too long in the tooth for the average priest.

    Sorry, folks, I just had to poke the troll.

  386. #386 blf
    July 26, 2008

    Sorry, folks, I just had to poke the troll.

    I think billygoats work better.

  387. #387 Richard Harris
    July 26, 2008

    Graculus, yeah, & my old firm did the same thing with the mast atop the C N Tower in Toronto. But a Sikorski isn’t what most people mean by a skyhook. It doesn’t rely upon wishful thinking. Well, not totally, anyway.

  388. #388 Kate
    July 26, 2008

    Well, Richard, a “Sky Crane” is obviously not a sky hook. Well, that’s at least obvious to most of us.

    So, did you ever see one in action? (A sky crane, I mean.) I’ve only had the chance once, and it was an amazing sight! I imagine it must take some nerves of steel to do that kind of job!

  389. #389 Richard Harris
    July 26, 2008

    Kate, yes I did, & it was the C N Tower’s mast. The operation was clearly visible from the streets of downtown Toronto, back in the 70′s. But a few months earlier I saw something more astonishing. When the main part of the tower was finished, there was a crane jib projecting from the top of the tower, & some of the workers finished their contracts while the jib was still in place. I happened to glance out of the office window, & saw a man fall from the jib. Then his parachute opened out. He landed safely amongst the railroad tracks at the base of the tower, but got fired for violating the site rules, but it didn’t matter because it was his last day anyway.

    None of the religious bozoes have taken up my challenge (#356).

  390. #390 blf
    July 26, 2008

    None of the religious bozoes have taken up my challenge

    You didn’t use monosyllabalic words. Nor a crayon. That’s too hard

  391. #391 Theresa
    July 26, 2008

    Andyo–I too become angry and upset with Catholics in name only- who even dislike having to pay homage to their “Savior” for one hour a week. Jesus, himself speaks about these fence sitters–”I know your deeds, that you are neither cold or hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold- I am about to spit you out of my mouth.” Rev.3:15
    Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline.Rev.3:16 So be earnest and repent. Give yourself over to the God who loves. Jesus is Savior–Jesus loves you.

  392. #392 Theresa
    July 26, 2008

    Shas, are you here tonight. I just wanted you to know that I believe what you are saying is true.
    I don’t know why wowbagger tries to speak for Christians- He is NO Christian!
    The father of lies speaks through him also when he states,
    “Catholics call you a witch.” Utter nonsense–
    If one has a gift-possibly a prophetic gift- then use it. There are many prophets in the Bible. I am interested in prophecy–
    We are all destined for this eternal world when we die–your Free Will lets you choose which way you want to go Heaven or Hell.

  393. #393 KM
    July 26, 2008

    Theresa:

    Please stop butchering the English language.

  394. #394 Wowbagger
    July 26, 2008

    Theresa

    I don’t know why wowbagger tries to speak for Christians- He is NO Christian!

    Well, at least you got that right, you clueless dimwit – I am certainly no christian. And very proud of it, too.

    Just a question, Theresa – what do you think the inquisition was about? Maybe you should go here and have a read: http://wikipedia.org/wiki/spanish_inquisition

    Shas, whatever you do, don’t go near Theresa if she invites you to meet up with her. Like I said, these people let their own children die because the bible tells them to. She’ll be weighing you against a duck in no time.

  395. #395 jose jacobs
    July 27, 2008

    These treaded discussions truly represent a microcosm of an insane nation who believe they’re smarter than their creator JESUS CHRIST!

    So much education, so much stupidity. My next book will be entitled ” Why Americans Are Stupid”

    GOD HELP US ALL!

  396. #396 Richard Harris
    July 27, 2008

    GOD HELP US ALL! – especially jose jacobs, except, there aren’t any feckin’ gods. All religions are primitive, puerile nonsense, & they’re damaging to human society.

    JESUS CHRIST didn’t create us, it was evolution by natural selection that created us, you bozo! There isn’t even any evidence that this Jesus character existed, other than hearsay from long after he was supposed to have lived.

    Don’t uncritically believe what authority figures tell you. Some of them lie to you, others are just plain crazy nutjobs.

  397. #398 jose jacobs
    July 28, 2008

    I am a moronic twat who comes to place where I’m not wanted and preys over people.

    I am a fucktard.

  398. #399 jose jacobs
    July 28, 2008

    The blogs of the Internet truly manifest the conscious of America in its hateful and racist sentiments.

    The coward that posted #398 without revealing their true identity please stop using my name for your attacks.

    Man Up to your truth without riding on my coat tail!

    Jesus said, “The Truth will set you free” I refuse to submit to a level of profanity to reveal the Truth about OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.

  399. #400 Richard Harris
    July 28, 2008

    Jose, there may have been a man upon whom Jesus Christ was based, but if so, he was just a man. Maybe a good one, granted, but there’s nothing magic about him. Magic does not exist, except as illusionist entertainment. God doesn’t exist – there is no magic, no spirit world. You’ve been conned.

  400. #401 Michael Edmondson
    July 28, 2008

    The 1280 HD bit torrent is finally up here:

    http://www.mininova.org/tor/1641658