…and this is a 
Beck and Stein deserve each other
Category: Politics
Posted on: July 26, 2008 9:03 AM, by PZ Myers
What happens when you put two of the dumbest right-wing pundits together on the air? Madness.
On the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, guest Ben Stein, while discussing Sen. Barack Obama's plan to deliver his speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at Denver's Invesco Field, stated that he did not "like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people" because "[t]hat is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America." Stein continued: "Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past."
Beck then went on to suggest that Obama was like Mussolini.
No, sir, this is a democracy. We can't go off electin' people who are popular!
Comments
Posted by: Ex Patriot | July 26, 2008 9:12 AM
Is there no way we could ship that silly S.O.B off to some planet about 4000 light years away. He is to stupid to even exist
Posted by: dan | July 26, 2008 9:13 AM
Oooh, goody! Glen must be sleeping! I get first comment.
I'm glad that they are conflating Obama with Hitler, it should take the sting out of the whole muslim thing and confuse the hell out of the faithfull.
Posted by: MH | July 26, 2008 9:13 AM
as a german i cann tell u this obamania is totally annoying - my fellow germans support obama only because of his skin color. this is - strictly speaking - pure racism.
i happen to support him but because he is not republican.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 26, 2008 9:14 AM
Obama is getting an enthusiastic welcome and lots of favourable media coverage in Europe during his current overseas tour. Keep it quiet. ;-)
Posted by: Doubting Foo | July 26, 2008 9:15 AM
Haha, yeah I agree. I found a Mussolini clip from the Young Ones yesterday when I saw that: Ben Stein needs to STFU!
Posted by: Louis Irving | July 26, 2008 9:17 AM
But PZ, you must remember, Republicans prefer their presidents to get jeered and pelted by rotten vegetables during their inauguration....
Posted by: Geral | July 26, 2008 9:18 AM
Maybe it would of been more democratic for Obama to deliver the speech in a small room of hand picked supporters?
Posted by: clinteas | July 26, 2008 9:20 AM
Its Alzheimers.
The only category he can think of is Hitler,whether its Darwin,Atheists,his mother,Obama,or whatever,its always Hitler with B.S.
Posted by: Chuck Lunney | July 26, 2008 9:21 AM
Don't these guys ever THINK before opening their mouths?
Oh, wait -- Stein's brain was surgically removed before making "that movie". I guess that explains his lack of critical thinking skills.
I don't know what Beck's problem is, other than being a right-wing shill who knows where his bread is buttered.
Posted by: Dahan | July 26, 2008 9:24 AM
Yep, that kind of speech should be made in a smoke-filled back room attended by the 12 rich old white guys that made the decision to elect him in the first place.
Posted by: wildcardjack | July 26, 2008 9:25 AM
Comparing a man giving a speech in front of 75,000 screaming fans to Hitler or Mussolini...
They arranged larger crowds. And worked mostly outdoors.
Posted by: dan | July 26, 2008 9:25 AM
the claim that people are supporting Obama because of his skin color is absurd. He is a gifted speaker, and he is offering a message that resonates in the times. My god, I can't bear to watch the current President speak at all - his inability to make the slightest sense grates on my nerves. Once you realize that the boss is an idiot, there is no going back. Meanwhile, McCain does not inspire, does not thrill, and has no passionate core. He states his positions as if he is receiting a shopping list, and so he doesn't excite even his own supporters.
Obama becoming President will be a huge step for America, one that it will not take altogether willingly of course, as it has not taken to equality for all races willingly at any time in it's history. That is the whole point, that is why it's exciting to see happening, but make no mistake, if Obama seemed to be even slightly less than intellectually gifted, he would not have come 10% this far. I would never give him the benefit of the doubt because he is black. I accept him because he is, as far as I'm concerned, more than up to the job.
Posted by: Keith B | July 26, 2008 9:26 AM
PZ, it's spelled "Führer" not "Fuehrer" auf Deutsch. Not that I'm advocating the use of that word.
Ben Stein is an idiot for making such a petty and hateful sentiment.
Posted by: trj | July 26, 2008 9:28 AM
Well, I for one think it's about time we had a black Hitler. I expect him to clean up the mess of the previous honky administration.
Posted by: Volly | July 26, 2008 9:29 AM
Keith, the -e- is accepted for when it's inconvenient to type/display the umlaut.
Posted by: Arnaud | July 26, 2008 9:30 AM
Fuehrer is an acceptable spelling when your keyboard doesn't include umlauts.
Posted by: Dahan | July 26, 2008 9:30 AM
Sorry, forgot to add one more thing.
Does EVERYTHING remind Stein of the Nazis? I mean, really, is he unable to think of anything else?
I wish he'd speak up about something like the situation in Darfur. But I guess other genocides don't remind him of the Holocaust, just liberals and their crazy ideas. Funny that.
Posted by: Keith B | July 26, 2008 9:30 AM
Guess I'm behind the times.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 26, 2008 9:34 AM
I'm not a hardcore Obama supporter (infinitely more then McCain though) but...what the flux, Stein? Seriously?
He has a serious Reich obsession going on. Every time I see the guy on TV he's comparing something or someone to Hitler or Nazis in general.
Isn't McCain going to be at the Xcel center for the RNC? I've seen plenty of hockey games there, something of a 'sports palace' too, dontcha' think?
Posted by: Anton Mates | July 26, 2008 9:34 AM
Well, I guess that makes Expelled's attempt to draw a Nazi connection less offensive. Apparently Ben Stein compares anyone he's currently talking about to Nazis. I'm not sure he even has to dislike them.
Someone should tell him that Godwin's Law is descriptive, not prescriptive.
Posted by: Alverant | July 26, 2008 9:35 AM
Hitler was a religious conservative who was against abortion and gay rights. Hitler confused loyalty to him and his party with loyalty to the country. Hitler had an organization that spied on his own people. How does that sound like Obama?
Posted by: brxp | July 26, 2008 9:35 AM
Of course Glen, Joseph Smith, Beck can't stand Obama. It's only been a few decades since the Mormons decided blacks are kind of ok to be accepted as equals in the after life, Maybe someones planet needs to be cleaned, ask Glen... Just look at his real values and is it what the Mormon church tells (pays) him to say or... is he just another Donny and Marie act?
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 9:38 AM
Oh, right. Make a big ol' mess, then hire a black guy to be the janitor.
/humor?
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 26, 2008 9:39 AM
Ben Stein - a walking talking Godwin's law...
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 9:39 AM
Yeuch. Really, now that utf-8 is pretty well ubiquitous, we should abandon horrible hacks like writing "aa" for å and "ue" for ü and learn to use the compose key.Posted by: Radwaste | July 26, 2008 9:40 AM
I'm still wondering what a Senator can do as President that he wouldn't do as a Senator.
Aside from forget his voting record.
If the only name you can think of is "George Bush", I guess it's natural to miss the very existence of Congress, and the Constitutional duties they have.
I'm tired of people who think the President is either the cause or solution to all their problems.
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 9:44 AM
More of the same rovian BS. Smear, smear smear. Is that supposed to be a great reason to support McSame?
"Well, unlike Hussein Osama, Noble John McAmericanHero can't get even 10k people together at the same time and place, can't keep his facts straight, and is a foul-tempered knee jerk puppet. QED, JM for El Jefe II."
Posted by: Dahan | July 26, 2008 9:50 AM
Radwaste at 26,
Well, if you aren't aware of the powers invested into the position of president, you should do a bit of research.
Here's a couple reasons the post is so much more powerful than being a senator:
The president can issue rules, regulations, and instructions called executive orders, which have the binding force of law upon federal agencies but do not require congressional approval. As Commander in Chief of the armed forces of the United States, the president may also call into federal service the state units of the National Guard. Please note that these powers have been greatly expanded. Currently he or she can basically declare war at will.
The president can veto any Act of Congress.
The president has the power to nominate federal judges, including members of the Supreme Court.
The president is the federal official primarily responsible for the relations of the United States with foreign nations. The president appoints ambassadors, ministers, and consuls.
And etc. etc.
No, he's not an all powerful being, but if you think those kind of powers don't matter, you're crazier than Ben Stein on acid.
Posted by: Paul Burnett | July 26, 2008 9:50 AM
Has Ben Stein made any comment yet on the former president of Baylor University, John M. Lilley, who was recently EXPELLED?
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 9:51 AM
That's a very broad statement, Radwaste. I don't think anyone has said that.
I believe that the prez sets a tone, and certainly under the
Imperial EmperorMartial LawUnitary Executive theory, this particular administration has created and/or exacerbated many problems and violated human rights of probably hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove otherwise.Additionally, the prez has an effect on the Judiciary, because he/she/it gets to select SCOTUS candidates (not that the Senate has held any selectees to any standards of competence). Our next prez will have the opportunity to slant the SCOTUS one way or another, and that crowd gets to create legal precedents.
Posted by: jynnan_tonnyx | July 26, 2008 9:52 AM
Man, why is Stein continually stuck on the Hitler comparisons these days? Is he always like this?
WAITER: And how is your steak, sir?
STEIN: I ordered medium, and this is medium rare! It's like something HITLER would cook!!!
Posted by: Bryan | July 26, 2008 9:53 AM
Glenn Beck to Production staff: Times are desperate people. We need to pull out the Hitler card to scare our dumb-ass audience back into our corner. Who do we got?
Producer #6: I spoke to Ben Steins agent yesterday and-
Glenn (interrupting): Get him! If I know anybody that can compare anybody or anything to Hitler its Ben Stein. He's great!
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 9:53 AM
LOL, jynnan tonnyx. Thx.
Posted by: JoJo | July 26, 2008 9:55 AM
Our present incumbent hand picks his audiences. Conservatives don't understand the concept of giving speeches where just anyone can show up.
Posted by: CJ | July 26, 2008 10:00 AM
Sorry but, their lunacy aside, I've had about enough of the staged photo op the past 7 years and just because a Democrat is doing it doesn't change that fact. Obama is nothing but rhetoric and staging and those of you who think his SCOTUS nominees will be any better weren't paying attention to Obama when Roberts and Alito were confirmed.
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 10:03 AM
But CJ, what about those unstaged photo ops?
Yeah, yeah, nobody is a saviour. Which evil are you voting for? Mister "We have always been at war with Oceania", or Mister Rainbow Bright?
Posted by: JoJo | July 26, 2008 10:13 AM
The argument "Obama isn't absolutely perfect so I'll vote for my mother or I won't vote at all" has a major flaw. There are only two people with a realistic chance of becoming elected. So do you want the incompletely perfect Obama or the quite clearly imperfect McCain to be president?
Posted by: SC | July 26, 2008 10:15 AM
Haven't seen much of truth machine this week. I wonder if this thread will be a siren song.
Posted by: John | July 26, 2008 10:26 AM
At least Ben's consistent--as in consistently stupid and untrustworthy:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/01/farewell-to-ben.html
Posted by: Polyester Mather | July 26, 2008 10:30 AM
Medium steak? Mein Gott! I thought vegetarians liked their cows live, though BSE would go along way towards explaining many of Ben's pronouncements.
I hope no one ate his brain.
Posted by: thepetey | July 26, 2008 10:33 AM
they are calling Obama a nazi?!?!?!
Have they LOOKED at Bush's style of governance?????
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 26, 2008 10:34 AM
And Etha Williams is missing out on all this cracker fun while obsessing with 12 tone Viennese School music - sheesh!
Posted by: Mike O'Risal | July 26, 2008 10:36 AM
As I've pinted out here, what Stein said about things not being done in American politics this way is a big, fat pile of dumb. For instance, Barry Goldwater held a full-fledged rally at Colt .45 Stadium in Houston, TX in 1964 just before the election. The only legitimate difference that could be claimed is that Obama's event is earlier in the election process than was Goldwater's, which is hardly enough of a difference to justify comparison to Hitler!
Adolph Hitler and Ben Stein both wear shoes!
Posted by: jparenti | July 26, 2008 10:37 AM
Sigh. Neither the first, nor the last, time we'll hear a Reductio ad Hitlerum argument. I especially liked the McCain commercial with all the chanting. Get a candidate who wants to change typical political BS, and you'll get a bunch of conservatives asking the tough questions about him... like why he doesn't wear a lapel pin.
Posted by: Dave Wisker | July 26, 2008 10:40 AM
Stein:
LOL.
Posted by: Tabby Lavalamp | July 26, 2008 10:42 AM
Alverant #21 - "Hitler was a religious conservative who was against abortion and gay rights. Hitler confused loyalty to him and his party with loyalty to the country. Hitler had an organization that spied on his own people. How does that sound like Obama?"
To make this perfectly clear, I am not in any way saying Obama is anything like Hitler. But when he votes in favour of FISA, you might want to avoid leaving those comparisons open.
He is for the most part pro-choice, but he also had to be talked out of voting to confirm John Roberts to the Supreme Court. He also thinks a woman's pastor should be included in abortion decisions.
Now this wasn't from Obama himself, but from Donald Fowler with the DNC - "It is time for all Democrats, supporters of Senator Clinton and all other contenders for the nomination, to stand with him to secure [Obama's] election and the election of Democrats at all levels of competition.
"I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn't establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.
"It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It's time to put the primaries behind us. It's time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.
"It's time to WIN for Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, America, and our future. We have an unparalleled opportunity. I hope we will all do everything we can to seize the moment."
Not exactly "Rah rah democracy!"
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 26, 2008 10:46 AM
Dave Wisker@45,
I think Stein's giving Obama some useful advice here. Like almost all politicians, Obama obviously has a sizeable ego, however he would be foolhardy to match himself against Olympic-class egotists such as Stein.
Posted by: DrBadger | July 26, 2008 10:48 AM
@#41, that's the way rupublicans work (call your opponent something that describes you better and no one will accuse you of it).
Posted by: Feynmaniac | July 26, 2008 10:49 AM
Does Ben Stein link EVERYONE he disagrees with to Nazis? If someone bumbs in to him on the street does he starting yelling "You attacked me unprovoked just like Hitler attacked Poland". If he and his wife disagree does he say "Well I think the Nazis would have agreed with you." He is almost a walking parody of Godwin's law.
Posted by: Diego | July 26, 2008 10:51 AM
That's the dumbest thing I've heard Ben Stein say since, well-- since the last time I heard him say anything.
Posted by: Fergy | July 26, 2008 10:58 AM
Beck and Stein in the same room together? Sounds like the makings of a black hole of stupid. Throw in a Coulter or O'Reilly, and we're talkin' a serious disruption in the space-time continuum...
Posted by: Holbach | July 26, 2008 10:59 AM
Beck and Stein; now there's a pair with double the dementia. Two of a kind; Frick and Frack, anus and rectum, shit and piss, cracker and god, and noodle and nut. Sorry, that is all the doubles I can come up with right now as I think I am going to have a double retch.
Posted by: Breakfast | July 26, 2008 11:02 AM
"Stein is not the first guest on Glenn Beck to compare Obama to Adolf Hitler."
Guys, is it that obvious? I just don't get that 'genocidal fascist warmonger' thing from him at all. I haven't been following his policies too closely, though.
Posted by: AirunJae | July 26, 2008 11:02 AM
Just plain dumb...
Posted by: Brian W. | July 26, 2008 11:15 AM
Stein comparing things to nazis sounds like the makings of a good drinking game.
Posted by: The Chemist | July 26, 2008 11:18 AM
It seems to me Stein only has two modes:
OffGodwin
Posted by: The Chemist | July 26, 2008 11:21 AM
*Sigh*
Remind me never to attempt ASCII art here it supposed to be:
Off-----------Godwin
Posted by: amk | July 26, 2008 11:23 AM
I'm reminded of Jonah Goldberg's book "Liberal Fascism", which Dave Neiwart describes as an "I know you are, but what am I?" response to descriptions of the conservative movement as fascistic.
Do not underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. Also remember that - according to wingnuts - Ahmadinejad is the new Hitler, and there is such a thing as Islamofascism. It's superficial name calling, designed to evoke negative emotions and attach them to the Enemy, not an intellectual argument.Posted by: Jérôme ^ | July 26, 2008 11:29 AM
There's an even scarier bit a few paragraphs later.
FDR, Hitler, all these guys, they basically said, 'All your problems can be solved.'
Really, do Americans equate Hitler with one of the best presidents (with Jefferson) you've ever had?
Posted by: trj | July 26, 2008 11:29 AM
True Bob, #23:
Oh dear, I didn't even see the connotation of my "cleaning up" comment. No racial pun was intended in that regard.
Posted by: Jeremy | July 26, 2008 11:36 AM
Of all the behaviors, traits, actions, and atrocities associated with Hitler, these two idiots make a connection with "size of audience" and think they have an appropriate comparison?
"He draws large crowds! Holy shit next thing you know he'll be invading Poland and executing Jews!!!!"
Talk about a non sequitur.
Posted by: Jeremy | July 26, 2008 11:37 AM
By the way...the Pope also draws large crowds, and he's not a Naz...er...never mind. :)
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 26, 2008 11:40 AM
Jeremy #62
Coffee ===> monitor.
Well done!
Posted by: arthwollipot | July 26, 2008 11:42 AM
Isn't that exactly how you do things in the US?
Posted by: Steven Dunlap | July 26, 2008 11:43 AM
As I commented on another forum when this came up:
When/if Obama has the attendees walk in a kind of "crowd circle" around the camera to create the illusion of a lot more people than there really are, then you have something. *
All political events are, to some degree or another, staged. Compare this to Bush's post-Katrina press conference after which FEMA packed up all the equipment and left shortly after Bush did. A German news crew remained after all the others had left and caught this one. Lovely.
* [BTW for the history-impaired readers: this is a reference to Leni Riefenstahl and the movie Triumph of the Will. Google it or try Wikipedia].
Posted by: DLC | July 26, 2008 11:44 AM
For Polyester Mather @40:
Look here
Posted by: Ferrous Patella | July 26, 2008 11:45 AM
Dahan wrote, "Does EVERYTHING remind Stein of the Nazis? I mean, really, is he unable to think of anything else?"
Paging Michael Edmomdson...paging Mr. Michael Edmondson
We need an animation of Stein taking a Rorschach test and everything reminds him of Nazis, Hitler, Dachau, etc.. The test images could start out with ink blots, then progress to pictures of famous fossils, PZ, Dawkins, Eucharist, cookies, Cookies Monster....
Posted by: afterthought | July 26, 2008 11:49 AM
Yeah Jeremy #62, I think it will be tough to top that one.
Next thread please!
Posted by: scooter | July 26, 2008 11:50 AM
#17
It's classic projection. Stein was a propagandist for the Nixon administration which slaughtered about 2 million indochinese civilians during their rampage. He still calls Mein Nixxon one of the greatest presidents.
Once a Herman, always a Goering
Steinhundt at Christo-Fascist Rally
Posted by: Andy | July 26, 2008 11:51 AM
I don't want to be thought of as supporting the odious Ben Stein, but didn't Richard Dawkins make a similar analogy to Ted Haggard's New Life Church in his documentary The Root of All Evil?, comparing it to a Nuremburg Rally?
Posted by: khan | July 26, 2008 11:54 AM
This week's Doonesbury is about trying to fill a stadium for McCain.
Ben Stein is specifically mentioned today.
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20080726
Posted by: Acronym Jim | July 26, 2008 11:57 AM
So we get a bit of "sturm und drang" from Beckenstein.
Ironic but unsurprising.
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 11:57 AM
trj @ 60,
Not actually my joke. I saw it the other night on The Daily Show. John Stewart basically gave the same straight line you did.
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2008 11:59 AM
Jérôme@59, yes, there is indeed a group of wingnuts(?) who blame FDR (and esp., if I recall correctly, The New Deal), for ... well, I've never actually understood just what they blame him for...
There's another group (I've no idea how much this group overlaps with the previous) who blame FDR for either entering the war in the first place, or else for entering it on the wrong side! Yep, there are a few morons who think the States should have supported Hitler. As I understand it, the "reasoning" here has something to do with Hitler/Nazis weren't communists (and, of course, eventually fought the Big Mean Soviets).
As far as I am aware, both groups are very small minorities. And nuts. My own guess is too many USAians wouldn't have a clew what FDR did, or when, and perhaps would not even recognise him as a former president, or confuse/conflate him with some other notable (or at least famous) person. Which, if true(-ish), is perhaps in some way worse?
Posted by: Andy James | July 26, 2008 12:01 PM
Yeah Stein looked horrible. Seriously, that guy looks like hes got a brain tumor or something. Of course, a brain tumor would be the most charitable excuse for such inappropriate and silly comparisons.
Hitler and Republicans share one particularly important aspect, they both seek out scapegoats for what they perceive as problems rather than a pragmatic solution involving all citizens.
Posted by: Amplexus | July 26, 2008 12:03 PM
At #46
What's wrong with a spy court with proper oversight? it existed long before bush
Posted by: Bubba Sixpack | July 26, 2008 12:13 PM
Ben Stein prefers candidates adjusting their depends to an audience of 20, at the local bingo parlor. Where Bill O'Reilly's fan base resides.
Posted by: True Bob | July 26, 2008 12:15 PM
Amplexus, a spy court is not what we got with FISA.
First, we got immunity for criminals. The prior FISA was clear in that telecoms KNEW that the gummint needed to show a proper warrant or a letter from Attorney General (not El Jefe, not Teh Dick, etc.). Their lawyers knew all this, that's why Qwest didn't cooperate with shrubco. So immunity for crimes already committed.
Second, we got bullshit for review. Even though FISA already allowed the gummint to spy on you for up to 72 hrs before showing the FISA court a warrant, they improved it by allowing blanket warrants. That means no individualized warrant is needed. They spy on you and you call your friend. Then they start spying on your friend, wiht no new warrant and no suspicion required. These get a review annually.
Beyond that, I'm sure shrubco wrote some BS signing statement that says "Whatever, I'll do what I want."
There's a real problem with this pattern recognition BS as well. Just like torture, I am sure they are chasing bad leads as well as good ones, but probably an order of magnitude more bad ones.
Posted by: JoJo | July 26, 2008 12:24 PM
blf #74
Patrick Buchanan is the primary spokesman for this group. He's also publicly admired Hitler and, while not a Holocaust denier, could be described as a Holocaust revisionist.
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | July 26, 2008 12:24 PM
Andy James, why do I get the feeling that a brain tumor in BS's head would be awfully lonesome?
Posted by: Chris (H) | July 26, 2008 12:28 PM
I like the way he calls Hitler, The Fuhrer -- kinda the same way fearful wizards call Voldemort, the Dark Lord.
Posted by: JJR | July 26, 2008 12:33 PM
Mussolini = former Lefty (Socialist) who veered Right
Obama = ....well....
...Actually, to be fair to socialists, Obama is just being the Centrist he always was; He just played Lefty on TV to beat Hilary Clinton, who actually did vote for the war. Now that he's beaten Clinton, he really has no further use for the Leftish facade. As for the popularity in Germany, well, remember they also liked David Hasselhoff way past his prime, too ;-) He originally wanted to speak at the Brandenburg Gate but Merkel said "Nein!". So they let him speak at the Siegesäule instead (see the movie "Wings of Desire" and its sequel--it's featured prominently there).
I just can't get enthused about Obama. Bill Clinton could give great speeches to, but never lived up to his lofty rhetoric. The 1990s were marginally better than the 1980s, but real wages, adjusted for inflation, kept declining. I'm sure Obama supporters feel the same way about him as I did as a young Clinton supporter in 1992. And the only way Clinton made it into office is ultimately thanks to Ross Perot and the Republican and Independent voters he drew away from the incumbent. I do think Obama's in a better position than Bill Clinton was in 1992, not running against a sitting president. But I'd rather vote for what I want and lose than vote for what I don't want and win. And I don't want the "smarter, better, more diplomatic" Empire that Obama's selling. I don't want someone who's going to expand faith based initiatives (even if he's using coded language to mean he's going to try to go back to the way things were pre-Bush; If you can't come out and state unequivocal support for church-state separation, that's cowardly). I don't want someone who once expressed support to ban concealed weapons nationally, overturning over a decade of hard work at the state level which has seen reductions in crime everywhere concealed carry by the law-abiding was legalized. I don't want someone who capitulated on FISA.
It's not that Obama's "not perfect", it's that he's seriously flawed and doesn't represent my values except at the most superficial level in *some* of his speeches. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough. Bill Clinton talked pretty, too, but he's the one who got NAFTA rammed through and instituted rather draconian "Welfare reform".
I predict more of the same and worse from Obama.
So I'll be either 1) staying home or 2) voting either McKinney/Clemente or Nader/Gonzales if there are also pressing local issues to attend to in the election.
Posted by: Nino | July 26, 2008 12:33 PM
Only 75.000 ?
I thought that the US was bigger than Germany (by about a foctor of 4). We hat 200.000 people listening to Obama in Berlin. And he isn't even involved in local politics !
Anything less than 800.000 would be a sad show....
PS: If you don't wnat him, then I think he could consider moving into German poöitics. I wish we had anyone only 50% as good as he seems to be. I'm sure her would win, if he would run for Bundeskanzler tomorow...
By the way, Hitler held his biggest ralies AFTER her came to power. But then Ben Stein also likes to forget, that Hitler was a Roman Catholic up to his death and good buddies with the Pope....
Posted by: Peter Ashby | July 26, 2008 12:34 PM
It is interesting, on this side of the Atlantic the son of the British wartime Fascist leader has just won a case against a tabloid newspaper who saw a german uniform (modern Luftwaffe) and heard German spoken (without getting it translated) and immediately accused him of being a Nazi. I am glad to see he won even if he is utterly unlikeable in person. A man should be allowed to indulge his personal peccadiloes in private with other consenting adults without filthy newspaper hacks filming it.
If Stein had made that comment over here Obama would probably have been able to sue him though I would like to think he is bigger than to do so.
Posted by: Lago | July 26, 2008 12:46 PM
I hate Glenn Beck. He is like so many people I grew up with. He admits proudly that he has little to no edjumacation, and likes to claim that he might not know, "this or that," but he is, "A thinker."
Derived conclusions, based on little that represents the facts, are poor conclusions...
Posted by: hje | July 26, 2008 12:48 PM
Next up of Glenn Beck: Pat Robertson says Obama might be the Antichrist!
Posted by: Michael X | July 26, 2008 1:10 PM
I'm with Lago. Glen Beck makes my teeth itch. I often feel when listening to him that he must have read the intro to an econ 1 text book and then smugly gone "Well now I understand it all."
Posted by: Andy James | July 26, 2008 1:13 PM
#80
Good point!
Hahahaha.
Posted by: Mark B. from Austin TX | July 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Hey, good to see you're doing your part to flush what's left of America down the tubes. Obama's far from perfect, but consider the alternative. I'd jam a stick in my eye before I signed onto Nader's stupid ego trip, but that's just me.
Posted by: BobC | July 26, 2008 1:18 PM
I was going to mention this week's Doonesbury cartoons but khan already did that in #71.
The joke is McCain could never fill a stadium. That many people are not interested in seeing a senile old man who doesn't know where Pakistan is.
Posted by: Mark B. from Austin TX | July 26, 2008 1:21 PM
TBogg wrote the best post ever directed at Nader voters: Your Mumia Sweatshirt won't get you into Heaven Anymore.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 26, 2008 1:22 PM
The fact that lots of people like Obama is obviously going to be a strange and unnerving offense to conservatives. They're used to everyone generally hating Bush and yet they still think he's cracker god's gift America.
And I keep hearing commercials for Glenn Beck on the only AM station I can get out here, and it's always this laughable clip of him sounding incredulous that it's cold somewhere (I forget where exactly) and so they have to use more coal to keep warm.
Then, in his best "Get a load of this wit" voice, he says "So basically it's TOO COLD for GLOBAL WARMING!"
Amazing he was able to even say all of that, since he's apparently sucking on his own wang while doing so.
Posted by: Michael | July 26, 2008 1:24 PM
Is that a backhanded endorsement? I thought the strategy was to make Obama look weak and indecisive.
A strong leader figure that they can follow without questioning is what the right wing was seeing all these years in Bush. Tell them Obama is like Hitler but not Hitler and they will run to the polls to vote for him. Their primitive lust for a strongman to run the country has been on display for so long: If Obama staged a Nazi-style torch march at night through DC they would riot in the streets to have the vote earlier so they can make him their Führer immediately.
Posted by: aratina | July 26, 2008 1:29 PM
They are just jealous because their candidate has no charisma. I think Obama effectively showed his capacity to build rapport for the U.S. worldwide on this trip. Can you imagine Bush or McCain giving a speech that more than 200,000 people would attend? I can't, and if I ever did see such a thing I would think the fuhrer had come back. McCain does slightly resemble Napoleon.
Stein seems to always go directly to the Nazi's for anything he opposes. What a buffoon.
... just a little side thought: You're able to draw quite the crowd yourself PZ :) You have some rock star potential like Obama. Wow, that fits right in with the distorted logic from that epic failure of Stein's.
Posted by: mandrake | July 26, 2008 1:39 PM
Hey, I'd lol that. Anybody got a picture of Obama looking at said mess? (Iraq, Afghanistan, New Orleans, etc..)?