…and this is a 
Fight back against Bill Donohue!
Category: Kooks • Personal
Posted on: July 10, 2008 4:18 PM, by PZ Myers
So far today, I have received 39 pieces of personal hate mail of varying degrees of literacy, all because I was rude to a cracker. Four of them have included death threats, a personal one day record. Thirty-four of them have demanded that I be fired. Twenty-five of them have told me to desecrate a copy of the Koran, instead, or in some similar way offend Muslims, because — in a multiplicity of ironic cluelessness — apparently only some religious icons must be protected, and I would only offend Catholics because they are all so nice that none of them would wish me harm. I even have one email that says I should be fired, that the author would like to kill me, and that I only criticize because Catholics are so gentle and kind.
Oh, and of course, the university president's office has also received lots of mail demanding my immediate ouster (keep in mind, though…Catholics are no threat to anyone at all.) I don't know how much, but since Donohue published the president's email address and not mine, I imagine it's much greater than what I've seen. Those lovely Dark Age fanatics at the Catholic League have started a write-in campaign to start up an inquisition.
So no poll-crashing today. Instead, I would appreciate it if you would write a short note to President Robert Bruininks in support (he's going to hate me for this). I have to ask for a few constraints, though: only do so if you are willing to sign a real name to it — most of the complaint mail I'm getting uses fake names, making it much less persuasive — and that, unlike the religious screeds I'm seeing, you take the time to proofread and send him something that at least looks like a high school graduate wrote it, which will put you way above the level of the hate mail. Be polite and rational, too!
If you really want to impress, send him regular mail at this address:
President Robert H. Bruininks
202 Morrill Hall
100 Church Street S.E.
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Bill Donohue has a loud, braying voice, and he's already trying to stir up a witch hunt. We need a counter-campaign from the secular community.
Whoa, this one is getting heavy traffic and we need to close it down and reroute. Continue the discussion here, if you must.
Education & Careers
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Danley | July 10, 2008 4:21 PM
No more Wheat Thins for Bill.
Posted by: Michelle | July 10, 2008 4:24 PM
"I even have one email that says I should be fired, that the author would like to kill me, and that I only criticize because Catholics are so gentle and kind."
...I loled. A lot. These folks are so much deep in their own asshole they can't see what the hell they are typing.
Posted by: James Sage | July 10, 2008 4:26 PM
Hey PZ,
I'll send along a letter to your President asap. Keep up the good (critical, rational, civil) fight!
--james
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 10, 2008 4:27 PM
Pope Benedict XVI restored the practice of indulgences to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. You may be able to buy your way out of this mess.
Posted by: Geoff | July 10, 2008 4:27 PM
Unfortunately, my real name is Spanky P. MacFucklestein, so my message might come off as a joke...
Nah, I'll do it up right. Hang in there, PZ. Fuck these fucking fucks. I'm going to eat a whole box of Cheez-Its tonight.
Geoff
Posted by: Becca | July 10, 2008 4:28 PM
I'd be happy to send a fan letter to your pres. But for my peace of mind, please tell me you don't really need it... you've got tenure right? And it means something?
Posted by: Geoff | July 10, 2008 4:29 PM
Unfortunately, my real name is Spanky P. MacFucklestein, so my message might come off as a joke...
Nah, I'll do it up right. Hang in there, PZ. Fuck these fucking fucks. I'm going to eat a whole box of Cheez-Its tonight.
Geoff
Posted by: Epicurus | July 10, 2008 4:29 PM
Tardfires are wafting over the Internet. I wonder in Ben Stein likes Honey Grahams? Stein and Donohue could have a smores eating contest with the holy ghost.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 4:30 PM
Don't let it go to your head, PZ.
Must be the most fun you've had since being expelled from Expelled, though.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
P.S. You can do whatever you wish, of course, but it's still in bad taste (and offensive to a lot of grannies) to desecrate the host.
Posted by: Greg | July 10, 2008 4:30 PM
Dude, you fully have my support. Fight the Power! (Not that Catholics are any real threat, as you said!)
Posted by: Starbuck | July 10, 2008 4:31 PM
...I loled. A lot. These folks are so much deep in their own asshole they can't see what the hell they are typing.
Really? And PZ can't see the harm he does? Why doesn't he write what he does about gays? or blacks? or jews? No, it is always the stupid, hate mongering, murdering Christians.
This is not up to the people complaining nor is it up to those who support PZ. It is up to his employers.
I for one hopes he doesn't get fired and is allowed to show his opinion on here as much as he wants. He hurts a lot of peoples feelings when he pulls out his little hate bits on Christians. But he doesn't hurt my feelings and it gives me insight on how you athiest clowns think.
Good luck PZ... and I am sincere about it.
Posted by: Logicel | July 10, 2008 4:33 PM
The link to your university president is dead (for me, that is.) Is it working for others?
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 10, 2008 4:35 PM
I'll get a letter out, too.
I suggest also sending one to Webster Cook's school -- wasn't the last word that they were going to be acting as the Catholic Church's enforcers? (And, no, I won't be inflammatory, I promise.)
Posted by: Sili | July 10, 2008 4:35 PM
For what it's worth, you've instilled in me an appreciation for - and modest understanding of - biology that ... 23 years of education couldn't manage.
So thank you.
Posted by: firemancarl | July 10, 2008 4:35 PM
As soon as I get home in the AM I will email the pres.
Posted by: Jon | July 10, 2008 4:36 PM
Hmm why does P.Z. pick on the Christians? Maybe because in his country they're the biggest problem, the most vocal and the most influential? And why the fuck would he attack gays or blacks, just because a man dislikes all this superstitious bullshit doesn't make him a racist or a homophobe, two things I can assure you he is not.
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 10, 2008 4:36 PM
I am not concerned about my job -- tenure! -- but when I get calls from the administration, I'd rather it were to tell me that a whole lot of people like what I do rather than that strangers who never read the blog before and don't know me want my head on a platter.
Posted by: IBY | July 10, 2008 4:37 PM
Damn, all of this just for a stupid cracker? This is crazy, even speaking as a former Christian who was somewhat Catholic and Protestant.
Posted by: Chris P | July 10, 2008 4:37 PM
Starbuck "PZ can't see the harm he does"
We have stood by too long suffering under the harm that religions have done interfering with the state of the planet. Believing that their god will fix everything including overpopulation.
No, we will no longer be passive and put up with the BS. It has to stop, it has screwed up the planet and our lives.
No more pandering to stupidity. No more "you have to be considerate".......
Posted by: The Science Pundit | July 10, 2008 4:38 PM
PZ,
I'll be sending my letter of support tomorrow.
Everyone else,
I highly recommend that you desecrate a holy cracker in public. It's a statement that I made a little over a year ago when I took The Blasphemy Challenge (I wanted to do a Catholic version of it). I wonder if I send the video to Bill Donohue if he'll try to get my YouTube account shut down. ;-P
~Javier
Posted by: Luke O'Dell | July 10, 2008 4:38 PM
Email sent.
Posted by: Logicel | July 10, 2008 4:39 PM
The brain-dead, immoral Catholics think that having sinful thoughts is the same as doing the sin so I suggest that we all think about desecrating transubstantiated crackers. Just imagine, you dipshit Catholics, thousands all over the world having sinful thoughts aimed at your stupid crackers.
Posted by: caynazzo | July 10, 2008 4:39 PM
This kerfuffle gives the jokey expletive, Christ on a Cracker, much more weight.
I'll always stand by a fellow z-fish researcher!
Posted by: Nick Gardner | July 10, 2008 4:39 PM
Really? And PZ can't see the harm he does? Why doesn't he write what he does about gays? or blacks? or jews? No, it is always the stupid, hate mongering, murdering Christians.
Ah yes, those stupid, hate mongering, murdering gays!
Posted by: James Sanner | July 10, 2008 4:39 PM
I'm frankly not shocked, but I'm certainly nauseated.
I'll show my moral support by decimating a box of Ritz crackers this evening.
Posted by: Michelle | July 10, 2008 4:40 PM
"Really? And PZ can't see the harm he does? Why doesn't he write what he does about gays? or blacks? or jews? No, it is always the stupid, hate mongering, murdering Christians."
He's pretty pro-gays (speaks a lot against biggots), he is not racist, and I think he spoke a few times against them crazy jews.
Stop it. That argument is getting old and it is just not valid. He is not doing any harm at all. It's just that the crazy folks decided that he is making a terrible harm... A harm so terrible that Donohue can't think of something more harmful and hateful.
...And somewhere out there a woman's getting raped, I bet.
Posted by: s9 | July 10, 2008 4:40 PM
He got one from me. (Yes, signed with my full real name.)
Posted by: steve murphy | July 10, 2008 4:41 PM
I'm in; will alert the Canadian contingent as well (as I am sure others will as well).
Posted by: Aaron | July 10, 2008 4:41 PM
Done!
Posted by: Jon H | July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
What could be a worse thing to do to a eucharist wafer than eating one and turning it into poop? I don't get it.
Catholic boys should be dressed in eucharist-print underpants. Maybe that'd protect them.
Posted by: Paul Hands | July 10, 2008 4:43 PM
Just sent the following.....a bit stilted, but conveys what I want to get across......
Dear President Bruininks,
I write to add my voice of support for PZ in the face of the witch hunt launched by the Catholic League simply because an opinion was voiced which they do not agree with. Prof Myers is a bastion of common sense and rationality - something much lacking in the world these days. To take any form of censoring (or other) action against him at the urging of any extremist cult would be to capitulate to their irrational bigotry and distorted world view.
My name is John Paul Hands, and I live in Ireland. I'm perfectly willing to be publicly identified as supporting prof Myers.
Than you for your attention.
Paul Hands
Posted by: Wes | July 10, 2008 4:43 PM
Uhhhh...He didn't do anything to any Christians.
He made fun of a glorified cookie, and of the people who get their panties in a wad over said cookie. The vast majority of my Christian friends don't really give a shit about what so-and-so says about a cracker. People like you, however, seem to think it's acceptable to compare making fun of a hysterical flap over a cracker to racism, hate crimes, etc. It's quite indicative of your mentality and of the way you view your fellow humans.
Posted by: Danio | July 10, 2008 4:43 PM
PZ, you have my full support on this. A letter to your Uni Prez is on the way. Reason will prevail.
Posted by: DavidR | July 10, 2008 4:43 PM
Firstly,
Congratulations to PZ for his new daily death-threat record. Hip, Hip, Hoo-ray!!
Second, I don't know whether the president will appreciate it or not, but I will send a proper letter of support, all nicely written and spell-checked.
(He doesn't need to know I am a (severely lapsed) protestant from Northern Ireland, and tomorrow is our traditional "kick-the-Pope" celebration, were we burn effagies of his holiness on bonfires across the north!
Hip, Hip, Hurray for the medi-evil mindset!)
Consecrated wafers would sell like hot cakes at the bonfires here.
If feels good to kick the pope again, even though I'm now an atheist.
Posted by: j (not J) | July 10, 2008 4:43 PM
Was Bill D. the cracker you were rude to? I imagine he has a pointy hood a few bedsheets for dress up (with black latex undies and fishnet stockings, natch) and a cat o' nine tails too.
I support you PZ. You are a personal hero of mine.
Posted by: Britomart | July 10, 2008 4:44 PM
Email sent.
I am celiac, so would you all please munch a wafer for me ?
thanks you kindly
Posted by: Michelle | July 10, 2008 4:45 PM
Oh and Starbuck... I'd like you to read this over again. And think it over.
"I even have one email that says I should be fired, that the author would like to kill me, and that I only criticize because Catholics are so gentle and kind."
Posted by: minusRusty | July 10, 2008 4:45 PM
100 Church Street S.E.
The irony! lol
Consider the letter in the mail, PZed!
Posted by: Sidheag | July 10, 2008 4:46 PM
Done.
Posted by: Sean Wills | July 10, 2008 4:48 PM
I've just sent an e-mail to the Pres. I've got my fingers crossed that he's a sensible man.
Posted by: J (not J) | July 10, 2008 4:48 PM
Starbuck:
You need to brush your teeth... the shit stains are showing.
Posted by: TSC | July 10, 2008 4:49 PM
Dah crakkher o' da tupid Bill iz bad cuz da Christ iz goood.
Posted by: Geoff | July 10, 2008 4:50 PM
Well my real name is Geoff and I'm sending a letter through to the president. You have my support. Don't let these douche bags get you down.
Posted by: logos | July 10, 2008 4:51 PM
It's only a cracker, but it's also only a job. If you don't see any harm in attacking the former, then there should be no problem with attacking the latter (especially if you're cloistered in tenure).
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 4:51 PM
Message sent, saying that I don't agree with PZ's stated intent to "commit sacrilege", the whole thing should be allowed to die out of its own meaninglessness--and other things.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: sabrina | July 10, 2008 4:51 PM
I just sent my letter off. This is utterly ridiculous, and we need to show there are more people who support PZ than there are morons who oppose the first amendment.
Posted by: Zeno | July 10, 2008 4:52 PM
I am a former altar boy who was my extended family's #1 choice for a priestly vocation (smart enough to learn Latin, useless enough around the ranch to be spared). This apple, however, rolled pretty far away from the tree. Most of my family remains devout and occasionally they rue the "fact" that anti-Catholicism is the only form of bigotry still tolerated by society at large. There's not a lot of substance to this claim. Most current criticisms of Catholics and Catholicism are aimed at the Church's intrusion into politics and its encroachment into health services (Catholic Healthcare provides excellent service as long as you don't want any form of birth control; dogma trumps client choice).
I'm embarrassed for the members of my former faith that they are so often represented in the mass media by that cretin Bill Donohue, who has made being a noisy jerk into a full-time job. (He does, admittedly, have the perfect skill set for such an occupation.) I could not resist twitting Donohue in a post I wrote back in 2005 on anti-Catholicism. It concludes with some of Donohue's fulminations about the supposed "war on Christmas" and I reproduce Donohue's perfect quote about his relationship with Jesus: "I've never met him." (Eaten him, yes. Met him, no!)
Posted by: Ryan | July 10, 2008 4:52 PM
PZ, I sent my letter by snail mail. On nice stationary too, with a watermark.
Starbuck, there's no point in detailing the foolishness of your comment, you wouldn't understand the reasoning anyway.
Posted by: zer0 | July 10, 2008 4:53 PM
Sending my letter off as soon as I get home and put a stamp on the envelope! I have followed this whole thing lurking and reading... and it's effin ridiculous. I would gladly stand beside you and desecrate a cracker with you any day of the week. Keep up the good fight PZ. Rationality wins.
Posted by: Jody | July 10, 2008 4:54 PM
"Good luck PZ... and I am sincere about it.
Posted by: Starbuck | July 10, 2008 4:31 PM"
No, you aren't.
Posted by: KK | July 10, 2008 4:54 PM
Javier: too bad you didn't come up with anything more "brutal" than eating the damn cookie (sorry if I spoiled it for someone).
I have a bunch of ideas, but no cookies (my cat must've eated them)...
Posted by: Drew | July 10, 2008 4:54 PM
PZ if you're still reading these comments I would suggest to you that you send those death threats into the FBI along with the corresponding IP addresses they came from.
Posted by: Annie | July 10, 2008 4:54 PM
Who says the Dark Ages are history?
Consider my small candle missive to the UM prez declaiming your enlightened public service done and done.
All will be well and all will be well and all will be well. /snark
Posted by: Ktesibios | July 10, 2008 4:55 PM
PZ, some sites actually have a "hate mail" page, where they publish the really ugly stuff that flies in over the transom. I suggest that you consider doing the same.
If you get a drool-bedewed snail mail full of abuse, scan it and post the image. If an email, cut and paste the sucker, complete with signature and all headers.
Exposing the vileness of these outbursts of authoritarian-aggression-by-proxy in the full light of day seems to me to be altogether fitting and proper.
Posted by: Numad | July 10, 2008 4:55 PM
The religious people who are getting all sinfully wrathful about this have a pretty low opinion of their god.
Posted by: drew | July 10, 2008 4:56 PM
I also like the idea of a hate mail section
Posted by: Cathy Gill | July 10, 2008 4:56 PM
I'm sorry you recieved hate mail. I really hope nobody actually acts on any of the threats against you.
My friends and I debate theology all the time. We learned early on that if you actually want to convince somebody of something, you have to respect thier opinions first, and keep the argument on the level of the intellectual, not personal.
Please respect my beliefs.
Posted by: Mickey Mortimer | July 10, 2008 4:57 PM
E-mail sent! Hope it helps.
Posted by: Simon Owens | July 10, 2008 4:57 PM
Hey PZ, did you get my interview request about this incident? Please contact me at simon.bloggasm@gmail.com -- I'd love to do an article.
Posted by: Jennifer | July 10, 2008 4:57 PM
I love that liberals are all about tolerance, until it comes to something they don't like--like religion. How very, ummmm, tolerant of you all.... (Insert eye roll here)
Posted by: MrGadget | July 10, 2008 4:58 PM
Email sent.
Thanks, PZ, for being a beacon of reason in an increasingly Dark Age.
Posted by: infidel.michael | July 10, 2008 4:58 PM
- "I was viewed as a wafer terrorist .."
- "If you have insulted a cracker, that's it - your career is over."
- "Just stand up and insult crackers. You'll find out how risky that is!"
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 10, 2008 4:59 PM
Just e-mailed the following over my real name and University affiliation:
Dr. Bruininks:
Despite what you are apparently hearing from the followers of Mr. Donohue of the Catholic League, your faculty member Dr. P.Z. Myers does not need to be fired or disciplined in any way. Although I do not personally agree with everything Dr. Myers posts on his well-known weblog Pharyngula, I have great respect for him as a biology educator. As one myself, I can recognize in Dr. Myers's clear and well-written posts concerning scientific topics that he must be a fine teacher and a scientist fully current in modern biology. That he chooses to spend some of his free time on the internet goring the sacred cows of various religious groups clearly has nothing to do with his effectiveness in teaching, research, and service to the university, profession, and community. Please ignore the calls for his head and be assured that he is, in my opinion, an asset to UMM.
Sincerely,
[Sven DiMilo]
Posted by: craig | July 10, 2008 5:01 PM
Respectful, full-name-and-phone-number-included letter of support sent.
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 10, 2008 5:01 PM
Jennifer, #60: I love that liberals are all about tolerance, until it comes to something they don't like--like religion. How very, ummmm, tolerant of you all.... (Insert eye roll here)
Yeah. How dare secularists express outrage at death threats directed at a kid who pulled a prank that harmed no one. We sure are an intolerant bunch!
Posted by: JoeBlu | July 10, 2008 5:02 PM
Here's my letter:
President Bruininks,
I'm writing to you in support of Prof. Myers, who you no doubt know has come under considerable attack for his statements about Catholic altar bread, photos, and UCF. Since his statements did not occur on a UMM hosted site, and since his views are no doubt well known to you, I assume that there is already an understanding in place that Prof. Myers can use his SEED blog to express personal opinions. I urge you to stand by that, even in the face of the incoherent anger of people like Bill Donahue and the Catholic League, whose major complaint seems to be that he is insufficiently deferential to their particular religion.
Thank you for your time,
Joe Blubaugh
Undergraduate Student, Purdue University
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 10, 2008 5:02 PM
@ 36
I briefly dated a celiac and did a good bit of research on what was and wasn't safe for consumption. She and I broke up before it really became an issue...regardless I'm sure we can come up with a proper wafer for you to munch!
Something peanut based perhaps, or soy? :D
I'll be dropping a real life, hand written letter of support in the mail tomorrow.
Personally I can't see a major university firing a prof. for something like this, talk about negative P.R.
Posted by: DBC | July 10, 2008 5:04 PM
A nicely formatted, well-written, congenial letter of support and identical email will be in the works tonight and sent out tomorrow.
Posted by: TSC | July 10, 2008 5:04 PM
What the fuck is wrong with Bill's rotten, nasty-ass teeth? I'd hate to be a cracker in his house. Oh fuck, that would be goddamn terrible.
Posted by: dieselrain | July 10, 2008 5:05 PM
Nicely written note of support for you, PZ, to President Bruininks from me, will be sent in tomorrow's mail. Your blog keeps me sane. Carry on, sir!
Posted by: Justin | July 10, 2008 5:05 PM
I will do a snail mail letter for you PZ. This whole scenario is just so utterly ridiculous.
Posted by: Boosterz | July 10, 2008 5:05 PM
"Really? And PZ can't see the harm he does? Why doesn't he write what he does about gays? or blacks? or jews? No, it is always the stupid, hate mongering, murdering Christians."
Um, maybe because they weren't the ones that went bat shit nuts and started attacking some kid for taking a CRACKER? And just for the record, there is ZERO harm in taking your precious jesus cracker.
Posted by: Kougaro | July 10, 2008 5:08 PM
Hello PZ Myers, i would have gladly sent a mail to the president, but i'm not confident enough in my writing skills.
Furthermore, the whole thing is ridiculous to a point i'm not sure what to write ("Mr President, please don't fire PZ Myers, because the cracker is not really the Christ.")
I live in France, and most people here are catholics. While we have our own bunch of crazy extremists, i don't know or heard of anyone who do really believes that the cracker is the Christ's body. Even the priests here will tell you that's symbolic.
I hope you don't get into any trouble because of this crazy bunch of idiots.
Posted by: George W Bush | July 10, 2008 5:09 PM
Bring 'em on!
Posted by: garth | July 10, 2008 5:09 PM
prof: i sent a brief email of support to your prez. now you can continue your work of destroying the gays and the blacks! muahahaha!
wait, that's not what you do at all.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 5:10 PM
I apologize if this has been done already. Here is a link to a place that sells communion supplies. I might just buy a few dozen pounds of wafers and use them for kitty litter. I wonder if I can get a batch of wafers blessed somehow.
Posted by: RWHouchin | July 10, 2008 5:11 PM
I sent this e-mail to President Robert Bruininks:
Posted by: Papilio | July 10, 2008 5:11 PM
zero #49: I would gladly stand beside you and desecrate a cracker with you any day of the week. Keep up the good fight PZ. Rationality wins.
I'm Spartacus!
(Or, in Monty Python mode: I'm Brian, and so's my wife!)
Letter on way from Blighty.
(Mind you, if you got fired for this, the universe would probably come to a grinding halt as rationalists go on strike.)
Posted by: Steve in MI | July 10, 2008 5:11 PM
Done and on its way to sunny Minnesota via snail mail. :-)
Posted by: minusRusty | July 10, 2008 5:13 PM
Re: In Support of Dr. Paul Z. Myers
President Bruininks,
As you are well aware, Dr. Myers has managed to inspire some outrage regarding a post on his blog, Pharyngula, regarding the desecration of Roman Catholic communion wafers. The post in question was inspired by the highly overzealous and unreasonable reaction to an incident where a Roman Catholic communion wafer was taken from mass after it had been consecrated.
This letter is to inform you that I strongly support Dr. Myers' freedom of speech regarding religious issues, including religious issues and opinions that some, or even many, might find highly offensive. His blog entry was not done as an official part of the University of Minnesota, nor as part of his official duties as a Professor, nor is it hosted on any University computer servers, and therefore, there should be no need for any formal review or action against Dr. Myers from the University. I also don't think that there should be any suggestions made to Dr. Myers regarding altering the content of his Pharyngula posts, past or future. (Provided, of course, that such posts are within the legal bounds of free speech, rather than, say, illegal threats against persons or property.)
Thank you.
Sincerely,
[-me]
Posted by: Chris (in Columbus) | July 10, 2008 5:13 PM
PZ --
I am a senior at The Ohio State University and I am planning on attending University of Minnesota (Twin Cities) for grad school. It was your blog that got me interested in the school in the first place, and I am so grateful because U of M is an absolutely INCREDIBLE school and I cannot wait to get started there. I have you to thank for that.
I'll draft a letter right now to send to the President of U of M (Morris). I'll specifically state that without you, I would not be moving to Minnesota nor attending U of M. As crazy as that sounds, it's honestly the truth. I had little knowledge of the school until reading your blog. Thank you for everything you do. As exaggerated as it sounds, it is true when I say "your blog changed my life"!
Posted by: Jeff Dee | July 10, 2008 5:13 PM
Here's what I wrote:
Dear President Bruininks:
I assume you've already been deluged by emails on this subject, so I won't waste your time by repeating the details.
I would just like to say that Catholics are within their rights to treat a cracker with as much respect and reverence as they wish. But when they demand that anyone who doesn't respect their crackers as much as they do must be punished, then *they* are the ones who are out of line, not those who criticize them for it.
Thank you for your time,
-Jeff Dee
Austin, Texas
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 5:13 PM
Whoops.
communion supplies
Posted by: Paul | July 10, 2008 5:14 PM
Sent something as soon as I noticed that there was an email address on the hate site's page. I expressed the hope that the University would take the high road by saying that your opinions are your business, and are neither supported nor opposed by the U. Good Luck!
Posted by: Josh | July 10, 2008 5:14 PM
Ok, this is craziness. I'm Catholic, and when I first read the story, I thought "Yeah, that guy was a bit rude for just taking the Eucharist like that", and that was it. No death threats. No calls for people to be fired. No demands to have the host back (for what reason?? There are stacks and stacks of them in any church!!). Just a bit of a headshake, and that's it. Why people are making such a huge deal about this, I have no idea. They've got nothing else on the go I suppose. It stories like this that don't make me feel great about my beliefs at all. I don't always agree with what your blog says when it comes to religion, but this time, I do.
Posted by: Anna | July 10, 2008 5:15 PM
This may not a good time to say this, but how many presidents of a large university want their mailbox and inbox spammed about one professor and his personal (I assume) blog? That said, I'll go think up some nice things to say...
Posted by: MS | July 10, 2008 5:16 PM
Emailed sent, in support of PZ, with pleasure.
Have also fired off unflattering (but not rude) feedback to the Catholic League... can't stand those sabre-rattlers.
Posted by: Steven H | July 10, 2008 5:16 PM
I just posted the message below in the "anti catholic bias" comments section on the Catholic League website.
"You guys started the inquisition and murdered Giordano Bruno for believing there might be planets around other stars and you have the audacity to worry about anti catholic bias. I am more concerned about anti reality bias and the Catholic Church(TM) is the biggest offender."
LONG LIVE PZ!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: John | July 10, 2008 5:17 PM
My letter!
"Dear Mr. Bruininks,
I write to you with regards to the copious amounts of (probably illiterate) mail that you have recently been receiving, urging you to fire or otherwise discipline Prof. PZ Myers from Morris University, on account of his threatening to physically and psychologically abuse a cracker. I turst I do not need to remind you that Cracker Abuse is not a crime, and Mr Myers should therefore be allowed to abuse as many crackers as he wishes, without having to worry about losing his job. Indeed I believe that, under the circumstances, it would be highly appropriate for yourself and Mr Myers to unite in a joint display of public cracker desecration, in order to show these professional moaners that their cracker-loving protests are falling on deaf ears.
Yours faithfully,
John Yates, Scotland."
Hope it gets you off the hook, PZ! ;)
Posted by: sterge | July 10, 2008 5:18 PM
Email sent...
Dear President Bruninks,
I'm writing to show my support for one of your one, Paul Zachary Myers. A wonderfully articulate and thoughtful human being under attack by a horde of hypocritical, anti-intellectual troglodytes for merely pointing out the absurdity of a group of superstitious miscreants. Criticizing religion or anything for that matter is something that enables all of us to engage in critical thought and pursue discussions that can help us all advance as individuals and as a species. Criticizing things that are blatantly absurd and CRUEL (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=912931E6387D06E86603288C86CA66A1?contentId=6932236&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1) should be rewarded, not punished.
For reference, I have no problem giving my name and standing up for the RIGHT cause here... and that is the truth that folks like PZ speak and seek...
Gregory D. Johnson
Syracuse University Graduate (BS in Computer Science - 1999)
Thanks and please don't ever let the hysteria overtake the truth,
Greg
Posted by: asad | July 10, 2008 5:18 PM
I think I'll hand-deliver my letter! Morrill Hall is right next to the physics building here on the Twin Cities campus...
@Alex #83,
Sure you can buy them, but I doubt they've been consecrated so they're just crackers.
Posted by: Mark P. Shea | July 10, 2008 5:18 PM
Dr. Myers:
You really should see a shrink. Normal people do not go around pissing in the faces of total strangers and explaining that they do it because they are mad at somebody who is not there.
What the hell your antics have to do with the promotion of science is beyond me. But, of course, here in your cocoon of Bright sycophants, pointing that out will have no effect. Proceed with the juvenalia.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 5:19 PM
"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the
purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." [Robert G. Ingersoll]
Posted by: Chris P | July 10, 2008 5:19 PM
If you subscribe to the crazy e-mails from Human Events you will find, apart from the daily offers of magic drugs and cheap conservative books, a pile of hate about Muslims.
It seems as though Donahue is all about emulating the crazy Muslim ideas that have to be respected.
Posted by: Dave Thuleen | July 10, 2008 5:19 PM
Cathy Gill --
You say "Please respect my beliefs." That notion, that beliefs should be respected, is the deep problem that is common to all dogmas, religious and secular. It is not only ridiculous, but it is self-evidently ridiculous when you stop to think about it. If I claim to believe that a potato chip is the incarnation of my deceased grandmother, whatever that might mean, and then I ask you to repsect my belief, do you honestly think that you should? If I believe that aliens from the Crab Nebula have settled on Pluto and have opened a chain of hamburger restaurants there, do you respect that belief?
No, the respect a belief deserves is in direct proportion to the evidence supporting that belief, not the sincerity with which that belief is held.
Note, by the way, that I can respect you as a person while having zero repect for your ideas. As a high-school teacher, I routinely tear to shreds the work my students display on their exams, but I love and respect them as people. And I never hold back on finding fault with their work out of a concern that I might hurt their feelings.
They, at least, understand the distinction between respecting people and respecting ideas.
PZ -- I hand-wrote a letter and will drop it in the mailbox this afternoon.
Posted by: Hillary Rettig / www.lifelongactivist.com | July 10, 2008 5:21 PM
PZ - note sent. Please remember that Donahoe went after Amanda at Pandagon back when she was hired by the Edwards campaign. Perhaps she has some information or advice that might be helpful.
Hillary
Posted by: CJO | July 10, 2008 5:21 PM
Gawd, the whinging!
Please respect my beliefs.
No.
Posted by: JoJo | July 10, 2008 5:22 PM
E-mail sent with real name and all.
Jennifer #60:
Jenny (you don't mind if I call you Jenny. It seems like a much more tolerating name than Jennifer), like so many conservatives, you're a idiot. I can tolerate idiots, but it does seem that too many of you are also conservatives.
PZ is not complaining about religion in this particular thread. He's pointing out that a religious figure, the self-appointed head of the Catholic League, is making threats because PZ is not taking his religion seriously. I suspect that's your problem. You notice that many liberals don't take religion seriously and you don't like it.
You know, Jenny, that's just too bad. Americans believe that each and every one of us has the right to say whatever we want, as long as it's legal. However, there is not a similar right not to be offended. You may whine that liberals don't tolerate religion, particularly religious excesses like Bill Donahue is indulging in. However, neither you nor Bill have the right to expect that statements you find offensive be punished.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 5:22 PM
But only Davetard would try to incite a terminally ill person to try to actually kill you.
He really is one of the nastiest and most evil persons on the planet. What a shock that he's also an IDiot.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: david | July 10, 2008 5:23 PM
Just emailed El Presidente. I like this blog too much and my sister liked your instruction too much for me to stand on the sidelines on this one.
Posted by: Mike | July 10, 2008 5:23 PM
I smell martyr blood! Yessssss.... YESSS!!!
Posted by: Wes | July 10, 2008 5:23 PM
I think I've figured this out. By Catholic logic, Attacking a Cracker = Attacking a Person. Because the Lord Jesus says, "Take this, and eat of it, for it is just as important as a real, live person."
So if someone says something bad about a biscuit, that justified threatening the person's well-being, job, and life. Also, if a person is intolerant towards a cracker, this justifies Catholics in being intolerant towards people. If someone attacks a cracker, then you've been victimized, and can threaten to kill them.
It all makes sense when you think about it that way...and huff some paint...and slam your head against the wall a few times.
Posted by: Niobe | July 10, 2008 5:24 PM
I find it disheartening that you would have to need positive email, as if this brouhaha actually threatened your position.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 5:24 PM
"but I doubt they've been consecrated so they're just crackers."
Umm, they're always just crackers. But I understand your point. That's why I was wondering about a way to do a giant batch-blessing. Maybe I can find something on the interwebs.
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 5:25 PM
"Four of them have included death threats, a personal one day record."
All this for a tiny wafer. I'm in favor of never letting Catholics forget this wafer incident, especially the death threats. This evidence for their immorality and stupidity should be shoved into their faces every day for many years. The Catholics are no better than Muslim terrorists and they should never be allowed to forget it.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 5:26 PM
Save a Cracker - Kill a Human!
Cafe press idea?
Posted by: Kergillian | July 10, 2008 5:26 PM
Here is a copy of the letter of support I just sent:
Posted by: Sam Centipedro | July 10, 2008 5:28 PM
Re the Catholic celiacs and communion: yes, gluten-free god is available, and in the UK many priests will happily put the appropriate cracker christs on the plate (they like it if they're a different shape so they don't get them muddled up, how practical). That said, some bishops have been less accommodating presumably because they believe that the chemical reaction of transubstantiation:
cracker + wine + blessing -> flesh + blood + holiness
does not obey the Law of Conservation of Gluten does not apply (a miracle!).
Of course, other countries' voodoo merchants might be more difficult (Catholic priests in the UK nowadays understand that they can't bully their congregations as much as they used to, and I think even in Ireland, most priests no longer practise buggery with their altar boys).
Posted by: brandon | July 10, 2008 5:28 PM
"Four of them have included death threats, a personal one day record."
All this for a tiny wafer. I'm in favor of never letting Catholics forget this wafer incident, especially the death threats.
If someone designs an pleasing, "It's a fucking cracker" badge, I'd add it to my site. I'm sure many, many others would, too.
Posted by: craig | July 10, 2008 5:28 PM
Cathy Gill,
We should, and do, respect your right to your beliefs. We will not try to have you fired for them, we won't email and harass your cow-workers and family.
We do not have to respect your beliefs themselves, and you do not have to respect ours.
ALL beliefs can and should be criticized. If we were to live in a world where any ideas a human brain could hold were to be given equal respect and therefore treated as equally valid... well, we wouldn't be here conversing in the manner in which we are.
Posted by: Kevin W. Parker | July 10, 2008 5:30 PM
Apparently the link to Pharyngula from the university website has been removed - compare the current version with the cached one.
Posted by: epsilon | July 10, 2008 5:30 PM
I sent one for you. I'm not just gonna sit around and let these bigots trample all over our freedoms over some goddamned cracker
Posted by: lo-rez | July 10, 2008 5:30 PM
you have my sword, sir!
Posted by: John Olthoff | July 10, 2008 5:30 PM
Snail mail sent!
Posted by: valdemar | July 10, 2008 5:31 PM
Sent off my email from England, in what I hope is proper English, funny imperialist spellings and all. Was careful to use my patent 'death threat checker', just in case one had snuck in.
Posted by: andrew | July 10, 2008 5:31 PM
reallly?? i just wonder how many catholics thought it was outrageous at how upset Muslims got at a danish cartoon.
ridiculous and hypocritical
Posted by: Andrew Skegg | July 10, 2008 5:32 PM
I find all this rather incredible. For centuries religious organisations have wielded power over the masses by amazing them with apparent insights into the nature of the universe and threatening hellfire for those who dare to question the divine providence of god representatives. Moreover, they take your money for the privilege.
At some stage we came to the point where "host desecration" is considered the most heinous crime - an attack on the saviour himself. Through the magic of transubstantiation a cracker can actually change into the living flesh of Christ, but no evidence for this miracle has ever been presented. Hell, they even tell us that the form, shape, colour, texture, taste, smell, and feel do not change, but the *substance* changes. What on Earth can this mean?
Taking it a step further and calling a cracker a religious icon whose sanctity os paramount borders on pure insanity. If this madness were limited to a small cult the wider community might see it as slightly bizarre, maybe even humorous. But I am afraid to report that this particular breed of madness is wide spread - a pandemic.
Their reaction to such comment stinks of hypocrisy. The suggestion that their holy relics and voodoo rituals are untouchable, yet another's faith is open to abuse is ridiculous. I live in hope that those making such comments are able to take a step back and objectively look at what they are doing. So far I have been uniformly disappointed.
Posted by: J (not J) | July 10, 2008 5:33 PM
"But, of course, here in your cocoon of Bright sycophants, pointing that out will have no effect. Proceed with the juvenalia."
And ending on that line, Miss Shea flounces out of the room...
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 5:34 PM
I'll send a letter. But better advice is that if they try to sanction you in any way, get lawyered-up with the ACLU.
Chances are they'll back down so far, so fast it'll take weeks for the smoke of their retreat to settle.
Posted by: BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th) | July 10, 2008 5:34 PM
Bill is going to metaphorically kick your arse buddy. Bet on it.
Posted by: GentlePath | July 10, 2008 5:35 PM
wtf? Death threats over this? Why not just pray that you get hit by lightning?
Posted by: rod-the-farmer | July 10, 2008 5:35 PM
I too sent an e-mail to the Pres. In thinking over the situation that caused all this fuss, I wonder what would happen if a number of churches were suddenly confronted with attendees, one of who managed to drop a host cracker, during some sort of processional walk. Where it would be trod upon, of course. All those crackers presented by the staff would of course be consumed in situ, but somehow someone smuggled in an extra cracker. Then dropped it without being seen. You could have so much fun with this.
Posted by: Jeff Schmidt | July 10, 2008 5:35 PM
Email of support sent. The day we aren't allowed to criticize ideas is the day education is rendered worthless.
PZ, you should post all the info on the death threats and forward it on to authorities. Put their "anonymous" ugliness -- and whatever identification is available -- on full display.
Posted by: Wes | July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
Someone oughta make a cartoon of Pope Ratzi with a wafer-shaped bomb in his pope hat.
Posted by: Richard Harris | July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
Prof Myers, I would like to send a brief email to President Robert Bruininks. It would be in support of your stance against religion, on the grounds that excessive belief in superstition can be, & oftentimes is, dangerous for human society. Before I do this, I need to know if your University President is a rationalist.
(Sorry for shouting.)
Posted by: Katharine | July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
I sent this email:
I am an undergraduate student at the University of Wisconsin - Madison who reads the blog of Professor Paul Z. Myers, a professor at your university system's campus in Morris, MN. In hearing of the news that, in response to Dr. Myers' criticism of the reaction to a student's actions at a religious ceremony in Florida, several members of that religion had sent him death threats and called for his firing and/or resignation, I am appalled, and I highly suggest you keep him on your staff. He is respected among members of the scientific community for his advocacy for the teaching of sound science and his willingness to criticize those segments of society that indulge in ridiculousness, and he has no shortage of admirers here at the University of Wisconsin - Madison (in fact, the atheist student group which I am a member of is inviting him to speak here early next semester). I trust that you, being a former professor yourself, realize the value of this highly competent professor to your institution.
Sincerely,
Katharine Leah Dickson
kldickson@wisc.edu
Posted by: Stu | July 10, 2008 5:38 PM
I sent off a note myself.
You know what the worst thing is? Communion wafers aren't very tasty.
They're cheap and cardboardy.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 10, 2008 5:38 PM
Message sent! Keep us informed, PZ, and keep dishing out the deserved disrespect for daft delusions!
Posted by: DanB | July 10, 2008 5:38 PM
Prof Myers, I sent an email to President Bruininks in your support. Keep speaking out against ignorance no matter how loud it may be.
Posted by: David Wiener | July 10, 2008 5:39 PM
I've sent your President the letter of support you asked for. It is the least we can do to support you - keep up the good fight!
Posted by: James F. Elliott | July 10, 2008 5:39 PM
Done. Best of luck.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM
Done. And even with my real Irish American name.
Posted by: kubenzi | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM
I will take your bet Ben.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 10, 2008 5:41 PM
Gesundheit!Posted by: Papilio | July 10, 2008 5:41 PM
J (not J) #118:
"But, of course, here in your cocoon of Bright sycophants, pointing that out will have no effect. Proceed with the juvenalia."
And ending on that line, Miss Shea flounces out of the room...
It's juvenilia, anyway.
Posted by: lydia | July 10, 2008 5:43 PM
When will it become apparent that crackers don't matter!
I'll send a letter of support, and turn up on Saturday in solidarity. Do you think you will need security in Atlanta?
Posted by: wright | July 10, 2008 5:44 PM
Done. This breed of asspanda needs to be slapped down hard, or they just keep shoving their agenda more intrusively. Their weakness is that they can't see how ridiculous their shrill flailings make them.
Posted by: CrypticLife | July 10, 2008 5:44 PM
Starbuck,
On "hurting feelings" -- right now, there is a post on the Religion Clause blog about someone suing because sodomites was translated as "homosexuals" in one edition of a Bible, and his feelings were hurt. The general consensus there (correctly) is that he has no case. To the extent you bring it up, though, think about it -- Christians/Catholics say homosexuals are doing something evil and will be going to hell for eternity. For that matter, atheists are to suffer the same fate. Theists will try to get laws passed to prevent these types of behaviors. Somehow, this isn't seen as bigotry by most theists.
As for giving insight into how "athiest [sic] clowns" think, I hope that it does. I note that you've shown rather selective memory about responses here -- please try to pay better attention. I do note that you've been politely disagreeable, which is fine, and I hope comments regarding your teeth (for example) do not bother you too much. Just don't mistake them for atheism -- that's just the internet.
Posted by: Axel Muller | July 10, 2008 5:44 PM
Just sent a short email to your president.
As far as all the upset Catholics are concerned, I think they should accept the challenge, live up to their own expectations and forgive you - end of story.
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 5:45 PM
Yeah. A kid did something trivial and done by THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF CATHOLICS. You nutters, suffering from withdrawals in the current lack of "missing white woman" news cycle hysteria took this non-event to the point of idiocy.
Your kind made death threats and are demanding the expulsion of this student trying to, at the very least, set his life back a year or two as he'd have to start over at a new college where won't, because that's how it works, get full credit for the 3.5 years of college he's completed.
And when we pointed out your INTOLLERENCE and MASSIVE OVER-REACTION to his mistake, you got even nuttier.
SO, fuck off. You're so goddamn delusional in your sanctimony it's not even funny.
Posted by: oldtree | July 10, 2008 5:46 PM
Are you telling me that is all you get for a lifetime's contribution to NAMBLA? One lousy cracker a week with nothing on it? Who the hell is stupid enough to pay that kind of money for rotten food? No wonder the priests can't afford to buy a hooker for their Monday off. They have to use little boys for their NAMBLA membership requirement. I guess fellow gay priests are somehow off limits, so children are better?
Groucho was right about clubs.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 10, 2008 5:46 PM
Please respect my beliefs. - Cathy Gill
Since you don't say what they are Cathy, how can we decide whether to respect them or not? for all I know you might believe the British royal family are anthropophagic shape-shifting alien lizards whose schemes are laid bare in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or even something reallywacky, like that the Pope is infallible and a man in a dress can turn a biscuit into part of another man who died 2000 years ago!
Posted by: Steve F. | July 10, 2008 5:46 PM
Wow, this is the catholic version of the Danish cartoons. This may be fun. Go for it PZ, let's see some cracker abuse, email sent including my real name!
Posted by: Doug | July 10, 2008 5:47 PM
I just ate some Cheezits, will I go to Hell or did I offend some cult?
Posted by: Cyril | July 10, 2008 5:49 PM
I just wrote to the President as follows:
Dear President Bruininks,
I am writing in defense of P Z Myers regarding the controversy with certain Catholics and others of similar persuasion in the matter of communion wafers (crackers).
While religious authorities and spokespersons have no problem denigrating other human beings, homosexuals for example, they become highly irrate if anyone dares to consider their own beliefs and rituals equally abhorent or at the very least meaningless and without rational basis.
Any effort of these people to demand the dismissal or censure of P Z Myers through their self righteous furvor should be totally disregarded by the University.
I hope you will consider this plea in your deliberations.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson | July 10, 2008 5:50 PM
Do you really think this juvenile crap impresses people, asshat? And I'm not even Catholic. But do keep it up. You're just demonstrating what insecure, intolerant a-holes atheists really are.
Posted by: Cary | July 10, 2008 5:50 PM
Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"?
I am going to write a nice, long letter to President Bruininks tonight. I think I will have some clout being a recent graduate of the University.
Posted by: JoJo | July 10, 2008 5:51 PM
You're safe, as long as some guy wearing a dress didn't mumbo-jumbo over the cheezits, turning them into Cthulhu's toenails or something like that.
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 5:51 PM
And the new IRONY METER just exploded! And I only got it last week. Fortunately, it is still under warranty.
Posted by: Bureaucratus Minimis | July 10, 2008 5:51 PM
PZ, I suspect that the calls for you to desecrate the Koran or otherwise offend muslims are the product the trope popular in social conservative political discourse that liberals hate christianity but give a pass to radical islam.
Posted by: rob | July 10, 2008 5:53 PM
since PZ received death threats, it is only fair that he receive a life threat:
Professor Myers,
you are a learned scholar, a proponent of rational thought, debunker of dubious claims and incredulous of the credulous.
if you continue this pursuit of knowledge and education, you will find that others will follow in your footsteps and contribute positively to society.
you have been warned.
Posted by: Paul Johnson | July 10, 2008 5:53 PM
but what i really want to know is: what is bill donohue's email address?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 10, 2008 5:53 PM
Normal people do not go around pissing in the faces of total strangers and explaining that they do it because they are mad at somebody who is not there. - Mark P. Shea
Mr. Shea, may I point out that the idea of "pissing in the faces of total strangers" came out of your degenerate mind? PZ Myers has been rude about people issuing death threats because someone didn't eat a "magic" cracker. See the difference?
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 10, 2008 5:54 PM
I've sent off a nice letter by mail. Knowing Australia Post he should get it in about a year.
I pointed out that the university should be proud of their Professor and, whilst there will always be the nutbags, the press he generates for the institution is overwhelmingly positive. Personally I'd never heard of the place prior to reading Pharyngula and, I'd probably bet, neither had most of the non-US readers, but as a direct result of me discussing it my young cousin is at the moment wading through admission procedures and is going over to the study there.
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 5:54 PM
True story: The Dominicans take their name originally from Domini Canes, "Hounds of the Lord". They were given the original license by teh Pope to hunt down and kill unbelievers. Not hurt their feelings, hunt down and kill.
Methinks these cracker-worshippers can shove their phony outrage up their own asses.
Posted by: Dave Mueller | July 10, 2008 5:54 PM
Well, of course, if we believed it was a cracker, we wouldn't be so upset. Why is it that the supposed champions of tolerance don't extend tolerance to those that disagree with them? In fact, what good IS tolerance if not extended to those that disagree with you?
I used to be an atheist so I understand your science-alone tunnel vision, but some of us don't believe that everything can be explained by science.
So, since many people believe that the consecrated host is the very Body of Christ, why can you not be civil to us? Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you.
Atheists don't hold much sacred, so it is probably hard for you to understand, but someone threatening to kill your family is probably something you'd get a bit upset and angry about, I assume? Well, that's about how we Catholics feel when you threaten to profane the Body of Christ.
I hope you see the error of your ways and grow out of your quite prolonged adolescence. When you realize that there are people that are just as intelligent as you (probably more, judging by your behavior) that have believed in God and Catholicism, you'll take the first step towards sanity and maturity. To think that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and not worthy of respect is itself mind-bogglingly stupid and juvenile.
Do you think you are smarter than Blaise Pascal? How about Louis Pasteur? I could go on and on, but it is probably useless.
Posted by: Ryan Cunningham | July 10, 2008 5:54 PM
I sent an e-mail. Subject: "Don't bow to a mob frothing at the mouth over one man threatening an inanimate object."
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 10, 2008 5:55 PM
Christopher Johnson, #146: You're just demonstrating what insecure, intolerant a-holes atheists really are.
Well, I dunno. Death threats over a pretty trivial matter will make anyone feel insecure. Expressing outrage by making threats against crackers rather than against people seems to be pretty civilized to me. But then, I am an intolerant a-hole.
Posted by: craig | July 10, 2008 5:55 PM
"Do you really think this juvenile crap impresses people, asshat? And I'm not even Catholic. But do keep it up. You're just demonstrating what insecure, intolerant a-holes atheists really are.
Imagine the GALL of these atheists, intolerantly criticizing the DEATH THREATS of others!
Posted by: Bob L | July 10, 2008 5:55 PM
Death treats from Catholics? I seem to recall a lot of sermons on turning the other check from the priest of my parish back in the day I was a believer. These Christians apparently believe in God just as much as we atheists do if they go against own beliefs like that. Hypocrites.
Well I sent my e-mail supporting you with my real name and real e-mail address to your boss Pz for what is worth.
Posted by: blue_Jan | July 10, 2008 5:55 PM
Just sent my email and added a post scriptum. It might have a typo but telling the president that if he doesn't take steps to protect PZ the reputation of the university will be damaged. I guess that many skilled people who think about joining this university will inform themself about it. When it turns out that the president of the university isn't protecting a free thinking, pro science member of his faculty and blogger its reputation will be greatly damaged.
Dear President Bruninks,
I am sadend to hear that one professor of your university is a victim in a hate campaign. I believe that you will do whatever is possible to protect the right of free speech for your faculty. Intimidation and threats are not acceptable in a discourse about religion even when the discourse was started in a mocking tone (and there is a good reason for this tone: "taking hostage" a cracker).
Sincerly,
Dr. Jan
P.S.: I only know about the University of Minnesota because of Prof. Myers, his blog, Pharyngula. I visited the website of your university and consider it as an optiion for my future career in science.
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 5:56 PM
Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us
Posted by: Dave Mueller
Seek medical help.
Posted by: BaldySlaphead | July 10, 2008 5:57 PM
Email sent, and a pleasure to do so.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 5:57 PM
Minneapolis Tribune (the largest paper in Minnesota) reports on the story:
It's so many words, Myers seems to be saying there.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 5:57 PM
Minneapolis Tribune (the largest paper in Minnesota) reports on the story:
It's so many words, Myers seems to be saying there.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: John Pieret | July 10, 2008 5:58 PM
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 10, 2008 5:59 PM
Dave at #156
Blah,blah,blah..I could go on and on, but it is probably useless.
Not probably, Dave, definately. I used to be a Catholic and I call bullshit on your statement about fucking around with a wafer being worse than threatening to kill you.Liar.
Posted by: Betsy | July 10, 2008 5:59 PM
Letter mailed with real name and affiliation:
I write in support of Dr. Myers. As someone who was raised Catholic, I find this made-up controversy instigated by Bill Donohue to be completely shameful. Being offended by a sacrilege does not justify an attempt to ruin another person's life. Dr. Myers himself was only responding to another overreaction at another university by highlighting how ridiculous that overreaction was. That's what satire does. The fact that a brief bit of satire has prompted death threats to Dr. Myers is appalling. And what would be even more appalling would be if these elements in society should succeed. Because where will it stop? Even Protestants don't think the wafers are literally the body of Christ. Who then would be safe from the Catholic mob hunting for Dr. Myers?
As a fellow educator working part-time at a community college, this kind of threat to intellectual freedom is greatly disturbing to me because I don't have the kind of safe guards that Dr. Myers has in being a tenured professor. I hope that you will continue to stand behind Dr. Myers and not allow the university to be manipulated by those who would control even those beyond the reach of their religion.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 10, 2008 5:59 PM
Damn, why does the server allow double-post now? It didn't in the past.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glenn | July 10, 2008 6:00 PM
I, too, sent an email in support.
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 6:00 PM
#111, you're right. The university link to Pharyngula was removed.
PZ talks about death threats against a student for not eating a wafer, then PZ gets death threats, then his university removes a link to his website. That's the power of faith.
Any letters to President Robert H. Bruininks might want to make a request to have PZ's link restored.
Posted by: Ryan Cunningham | July 10, 2008 6:01 PM
Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you.
HATE SPEECH! HATE SPEECH! HELP! I'M BEING ASSAULTED!!!
I believe this BLOG is the Sacred Incarnation of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the word "body" is the most offensive word in the English language. Your posting it here is worse than threatening to kill me! How dare you? You must respect my irrational and unprovable nonsense!
Now it's time for me to follow Christ's example and get REALLY FUCKING MAD AND HATEFUL!
Posted by: Henzu | July 10, 2008 6:01 PM
At the horror of finding myself actually somewhat understanding the evil fundies (not the parts with death threats and harassment e-mails tho') I think that the comments have veered somewhat off-course: wasn't the main point of PZ's first post the reaction of the catholic community to the college student's stunt, rather than trans-substantiation itself? I think we can all agree that it was a stupid prank (on par in seriousness with putting tabasco in your friend's beer). What went wrong was the awfully revealing aftermath where the catholic community just over-reacted (as they habitually seem to do.)
Now while we should stand in defense for the poor college kid and PZ, what is there to be gained from willfully hurting peoples' feelings when cracker-eating is not exactly a major issue of e.g. civil rights.
We should not fight the fundies "on the beaches" when the battle is already "in London" - any moderates or otherwise who might be fostered in support for the really important issues - like abortion, gay rights , separation of church&state, evolution etc. - should not be antagonized over trivialities over crackers (double meaning here: WE should not antagonize them, but of course they shouldn't be antagonized in the first place).
There was a good article in Foreign Affairs some while ago that argued for a "broadened" concept of allies for the US selected on more pragmatic grounds (avoid the flashbacks of Noriegas etc. here =P). In similar spirit I suggest that we should work with people "we wouldn't want to have dinner with".
*sinister smile* and when the time is right it is the crackers' turn!
Posted by: sjburnt | July 10, 2008 6:02 PM
#92 "You really should see a shrink. Normal people do not go around pissing in the faces of total strangers and explaining that they do it because they are mad at somebody who is not there.
What the hell your antics have to do with the promotion of science is beyond me. But, of course, here in your cocoon of Bright sycophants, pointing that out will have no effect. Proceed with the juvenalia.
Posted by: Mark P. Shea | July 10, 2008 5:18 PM "
Mark, the antics serve to bring faith-based belief into the light of day.
If one can assume that racism, gender bias, and other forms of hatred and bigotry are not helpful to our society, then sometimes challenging beliefs with rational, empirical thought is a good thing.
Try it!
Let Mr. Donohue express his beliefs on his own time.
Posted by: splendidmonkey | July 10, 2008 6:02 PM
Hello Dr. Bruininks,
This is just a brief note to express my support for Professor PZ Meyers at Morris. I understand that he is under attack from religious organizations for opinions he has expressed in his personal blog. I hope the University of Minnesota will stand behind Dr. Meyers and his right to express his opinions. PZ boldly promotes rational thinking, and our state and our country need more of that.
I hope my kids go to UM Morris some day.
Sincerely,
[me]
BAgE class of 1987
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 10, 2008 6:02 PM
Dave Mueller, #156: Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you.
And this is why people like you scare the living fuck out of us. Remember how Muslims all over the world rioted when European newspapers printed cartoons of Muhammad? Do you really think that no one should ever, ever print cartoons about Muhammad, that "serious anger" directed toward someone who publishes a cartoon about Muhammad "shouldn't surprise" us? Or is that just getting silly>
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 6:03 PM
#156: "I used to be an atheist"
Bullshit.
Posted by: room101 | July 10, 2008 6:04 PM
Don't know if this has already been asked...isn't there somewhere we can beseige Donahue with email, spam, mild threats, what-have-you??? Maybe we can crash his website somehow?
We need to counter these idiots. This really is no different from insulting mohammed via a cartoon, right? I mean these xtian idiots are 1 step away from it, it seems.
Oh how I hate it when people act so insulted on God's behalf....narcissitic bastards.
Posted by: chgo_liz | July 10, 2008 6:04 PM
I figured that it was better to immediately send an email than to run the not-insubstantial risk that I'd never get around to mailing a actual letter.
One thing I pointed out was that both PZ and the kid who did not immediately consume the cracker have received multiple death threats from Christians. Instead of being arrested for their crimes, these perpetrators are brazenly trying to get the second death threat victim fired for standing up for the first death threat victim.
PZ, is there any (even slight) identifying info on the death threats that could justify filing a police report? If they're going to attack you, might as well make them sweat a bit.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 10, 2008 6:04 PM
Email sent.
Was almost caught up with posts, now 100+ behind again, but it was worth it.
So much ado about a bloody cracker!
Posted by: DrBadger | July 10, 2008 6:05 PM
E-mail sent. Hey PZ, are the death threats sent by people officially calling themselves members of the catholic league? If so, you got a case against them. Maybe we should all publicly call a cracker a cracker, and see how many death threats from the catholic league we get...
Posted by: Jennifer | July 10, 2008 6:05 PM
Dear President Bruininks,
This letter is intended as a gentle plea to you in the hopes that you might not let the multitudes of screaming, hateful rabble drive you into firing or otherwise punishing an intelligent and decent human being for the crime of free speech. I am speaking, of course, of the recent imbroglio over the words of P. Z. Myers regarding the so-called 'kidnapping' of the Catholic Eucharist.
I am not Catholic, or even Christian. Frankly, my religion, or lack of it, shouldn't be an issue here. Regardless of what people might believe, in the United States, the Constitution still guarantees all men the freedom to speak what they believe about matters that interest and engage them.
I am quite certain that Bill Donohue and the others at the Catholic League will be whipping their followers into a frenzy in the coming days to send you mail and email demanding that Myers be fired, that Myers should even die for what he has said; indeed, on Myers' blog, he has stated as of this afternoon that he has already begun to receive death threats for his words. It is both reprehensible and lamentable that, in this day and age, people can be so driven to hatred by another man's words that they would think nothing of killing him, or inciting others to do so.
I have every confidence you are a reasonable and rational man. I hope that in the days to come, you will weather the criticism stirred up by these hatemongers with grace, patience, and confidence.
Sincerely,
Jennifer Lawrence
Whiting, Indiana
Posted by: Starbuck | July 10, 2008 6:05 PM
Starbuck "PZ can't see the harm he does"
We have stood by too long suffering under the harm that religions have done interfering with the state of the planet. Believing that their god will fix everything including overpopulation.
No, we will no longer be passive and put up with the BS. It has to stop, it has screwed up the planet and our lives.
No more pandering to stupidity. No more "you have to be considerate".......
Geez, I said I hope he doesn't get fired for it.
And I might say, boy aren't you the long suffering martyrs...
And for you yahoos who think Christianity was supposed to bring peace to this earth, think again. Christiany is a lot of things, but peace is NOT one of them.
Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace to the earth, in fact he said he brought a sword.
And that is very evident. The hate coming from the Christians is appalling. But the hate coming from the athiests is very telling. They aren't as smart as they think they are. You are just a bunch of ticked off humans, nothing more.
If you want to deny the Lord, ok, that is your right. It is also your right to send yourself to hell. And that isn't hate speech or anything of the sort, it is a reality.
Do Judges send criminals to prison? No the prisoners send themselves, for doing the crime.
Now, if you can't figure out that if Christians are right and there is a God, that you will go to hell (the place for satan and his cohorts, because that is the side you chose.. well then I guess the infinitely stupid will go to hell as well.
I am amazed at the stupidity level of athiests who describe themselves as "progressive" "intellectual" "brights".
Stupidity is oozing from you.
I apologize, it isn't so much stupidity as being naive.
Or better yet, you are decieved.
And seeing is you don't believe in God, that means you will believe in ANYTHING but God.
Idiots, all of you.
You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?
It's in the Bible...
Posted by: Michael Pack | July 10, 2008 6:07 PM
*ATHEIST IN DISTRESS HAND GESTURE @ PZ*
*ATHEIST IN DISTRESS HAND GESTURE @ PZ*
*ATHEIST IN DISTRESS HAND GESTURE @ PZ*
*ATHEIST IN DISTRESS HAND GESTURE @ PZ*
I'll write up a little something when I get finished work. I don't think you have anything to worry about PZ; all this guy along with his minions have done, is show their true colours.
I think what they've accomplished here is, frankly, great. I hope they continue to throw themselves head first into the fire like the ignorant, confused lemmings they've proven themselves to be. Bring more attention to the astounding absurdity their side of the "argument" entails!
Come on Donohue; the cracker debacle is no laughing matter!! Don't stop at an email to his boss, call the news papers! Call CNN! The American people deserve to know!
Posted by: John | July 10, 2008 6:08 PM
OK. I fully agree that it's just a damn cracker. Nevertheless, these crackers are an important symbol to a certain population, and announcing on your blog that you want to desecrate that symbol is deliberate disrespect. It's one thing to criticize the remarks that people make, and to criticize their opinions and beliefs. By my standards, that stuff's not only acceptable but encouraged. But it's quite another thing to take an action, or threaten to take an action, with the direct intention of causing offense. That's called an insult, and it's unproductive, childish, and just not called for.
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 6:08 PM
You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?
Wow! Really? An imaginary construct has called me a bad name. I'm scared now!
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 6:09 PM
Not only have I been thinking that for the past two days, but I bet these same self people were along the lines of "those fucking rag-heads need to get over it." I bet ol' Bill Donahue and the Catholic League didn't start a letter writing campaign against the paper that published the Mohammad cartoons.
In fact, they got pissed when an "Opus" cartoon that poked fun of Islam wasn't published in the Washington Post:
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1323
Seriously, if you're demanding respect for religions, shouldn't that include all religions? Shouldn't you COMMEND the Washington Post for their growing senstativity toward the worlds relgions?
Posted by: Peter Milley | July 10, 2008 6:09 PM
Letter sent.
Death threats. Threatening letters to employers. I say this entirely without irony: JESUS WEPT. If any of these neo-Pharisees ever met the saviour they claim to follow, they would die of shame.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 10, 2008 6:09 PM
"So, since many people believe that the consecrated host is the very Body of Christ, why can you not be civil to us? Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you."
They might well believe it. Many Americans believe they have been kidnapped by aliens, and even more believe aliens visit Earth. There is no evidence or reason to believe them, and there is no evidence or reason to believe Catholics who believe a wafer really has turned into the body of Christ. If they produce evidence to support that claim then I am prepared to re-consider, as I am sure is PZ. Until then they are just deluding themselves.
Posted by: JoJo | July 10, 2008 6:10 PM
According to the propaganda, Christ is able to raise himself from the dead. Seems to me that Ol' JC can take care of himself. If PZ gets struck by lightning, then we'll know that JC is feeling pissed off. Until then, you and your foaming at the mouth loonies might want to moderate your anger.
Posted by: room101 | July 10, 2008 6:10 PM
Dave Mueller #156:
That unqualifyingly is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in quite some time. Comparing this to killing someone is stone-cold fucknut batshit.
Get help. And stay the fuck away from me or anyone related to me...
Posted by: Calladus | July 10, 2008 6:10 PM
Mueller - #156
Do you think you're smarter than Richard Feynman?
As if that meant anything more than empty bleating.
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
"Nevertheless, these crackers are an important symbol to a certain population, and announcing on your blog that you want to desecrate that symbol is deliberate disrespect."
No shit. So what?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 10, 2008 6:11 PM
o you really think this juvenile crap impresses people, asshat? And I'm not even Catholic. But do keep it up. You're just demonstrating what insecure, intolerant a-holes atheists really are. - Christopher Johnson
True, you're not a Catholic. But since your website (which is abominably badly designed and very slow, by the way) is labelled "Midwest Conservative Journal" and is full of ravings about the evil Archbishop of Canterbury's betrayal of Anglicanism, we can be sure you're well up to the standard of lunacy they've been displaying here, so you needn't be ashamed!
Posted by: jimmiraybob | July 10, 2008 6:13 PM
I just hope you don't start knocking the toasted raviolis and wine that signify the body and sauce of the Great FSM. That would be crossing the line.
Amen and pass the Holy Mozzarella
FSM League President
jimmiraybob
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 6:14 PM
I see you missed it, Starbuck, but that fallacy was thoroughly debunked years ago. Blaise Pascal isn't in heaven or hell now, he is simply no longer alive, and his body has rotted away.
Posted by: CJO | July 10, 2008 6:14 PM
Dave Mueller,
To think that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and not worthy of respect is itself mind-bogglingly stupid and juvenile.
It's not a matter of "everybody who disagrees" with us, it's that you're stupid and your holy crackers are not worthy of respect, being as they're, y'know, crackers.
Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us
You're a liar. Nobody actually believes that. You lackwits are just playing a bizarre game of who can claim to believe the stupidest shit. The rest of the world is tired of the fallout.
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
Amen and pass the Holy Mozzarella
FSM League President
jimmiraybob
Parmesan is the true cheese, blasphemer!
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
Riiiiiight... Because we make DEATH THREATS and try to RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES over a cracker.
And, btw, shouldn't the all powerful, all knowing big fairy in the sky take care of this? Seriously, why does he have to rely on PEOPLE, who are infinitely weaker and more fallible, to take care of blasphemers?
Really, just let old Thor or Vishnu or whichever sky-fairy of your choice uncork 3 million volts on ol' PZ and the problem is TAKEN CARE OF. No need for you to get involved.
Posted by: Sastra | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
Cathy Gill #57 wrote:
It seems to me that your last sentence contradicts your earlier point. "Desecration" is an intellectual issue, and the concept of what it means to desecrate something sacred deserves to be taken seriously. Disagreement -- even angry or mocking disagreement -- is a necessary part of the landscape of debate. Attacking an idea is not attacking a person.
We DO respect your beliefs -- in the way that counts. We think them worthy of discussion and criticism. We also think they happen to be wrong, and foolish, and should not be treated as if those who hold them must of course be simple and sensitive children who cannot understand that all ideas are open to discussion and criticism. On the contrary. You are worthy of better beliefs.
Posted by: Doug | July 10, 2008 6:16 PM
"So, since many people believe that the consecrated host is the very Body of Christ, why can you not be civil to us? Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you."
Why should we respect your silly superstitions? You guys worship crackers, how can anyone take you seriously?
Posted by: tes | July 10, 2008 6:17 PM
Support mail has been sent.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 10, 2008 6:18 PM
Man, all these threats and hatred over holy crackers is making me so hungry I could eat a savior.
Posted by: Cary | July 10, 2008 6:18 PM
I think secretly most christians know god does not exist, because they sure as hell don't follow the bible or Jesus' teachings.
It's all about control. This little Catholic League dustup really just confirms that.
It just seems like the god people want to rule everything. They want their little christian nation where they can hate gays and oppress women all day long without anyone calling them out for it.
But yet, Iran is evil because it's a "muslim state".
So hypocritical.
Posted by: Dave Mueller | July 10, 2008 6:18 PM
#177 BobC "Bullshit"
If you don't believe there is such a group of people as forme r atheists, you really do need to get out more.
I can't even count the number of people I've met that went through an atheistic phase, usually beginning in adolescence, and lasting into young adulthood. That seems to be true of most of the people on here.
Some of them are even rather famous, such as Anthony Flew.
Posted by: sjburnt | July 10, 2008 6:19 PM
I tried to bcc P.Z., but his listed email won't accept my emails, so here is what I sent off to the Pres:
Dear President Robert Bruininks;
It has come to my attention that there are those who would demand the
head of one of your Assistant Professors, P.Z. Myers. While righteous
indignation can be a source for motivation, it can also be a very
destructive force if it is guided by 'beliefs' instead of rational,
empirical thought.
I do not appreciate Mr. Donohue's foisting of his belief system upon
the rest of us!
So, this is just a quick note to let you know that I value, and in no
way am I offended by, the discussions contained in P.Z. Myer's blog.
Of course, I do not lock-step agree with everything that he or his
many readers have to say, but I really appreciate his blog as a source
of thought-provoking information. In this age of touted diversity, it
is good to see voices from all perspectives.
Challenging our beliefs is basic to the very concept of the University
as a center of learning. Certainly, challenging beliefs is essential
in learning to overcome long-term stereotypes like racism, gender
bias, and homophobia.
Personally, I appreciate the challenges that I have gotten from Prof.
Myers for the last year, and so I respectfully submit this note in
support of Professor Myers and Pharyngula.com.
Let Mr Donohue speak by way of his own blog, but please, do not allow
his zealous attitudes pressure you or your University into any
constraints on Prof. Myers' personal Science Blog. I would hate to
see any repercussions that would detract from one of the few available
forums for free opinion and thought.
Sincerely;
Posted by: Christophe Thill | July 10, 2008 6:19 PM
Just sent a support mail to President Bruininks (with my full name, as always). I hope he can find some time to read all this, and that his mailbox won't explode...
I think that people like PZ are a powerful advertisement for his university. On the other hand, I think that people like Donohue are a disgrace for about any place they go to.
Posted by: Jonathan Hansen | July 10, 2008 6:20 PM
While composing an email of support to President Bruininks, it thought back many years to the last time I tasted a communion wafer. The body of Christ tasted OK, as I remember. His blood made me think he might be diabetic though.
Posted by: Bob L | July 10, 2008 6:20 PM
Starbuck 183 @ "Idiots, all of you.
You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?
It's in the Bible.."
Bible makes a great blunt object to attack other people, doesn't it Starbuck? That's why it is the good book, good for a weapon. The nonsense that comes out of people like you is can't be parodied, too back you can't figure out why that is a problem. That or you just don't care, the felling of self righteousness is the only thing that counts your psychopathic mind.
Low lives like you are just about spreading hate. You don't believe in God anymore than we atheists do.
Posted by: Ryan Cunningham | July 10, 2008 6:21 PM
I'm an atheist, but how about picking up a bible and read about how your god feels about idolatry. Also, maybe pay a little more attention to the things Jesus supposedly taught you:
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Notice how many words he spent there telling you how to treat people? Really fantastic stuff. But there's not a DAMN word in that bible about how to treat communion wafers. You're so worried about a symbol of Christ's body that you've completely forgotten the reason anyone paid any attention to him in the first place! Is your theology really so shallow that you believe The Son of God died so you could eat crackers once a week?!
IT'S CALLED PERSPECTIVE. GET SOME!
Posted by: Carol Shillibeer | July 10, 2008 6:22 PM
Dear Dr. Bruininks,
I am writing in support of Dr. PZ Myers' recent posts regarding the captured Catholic cracker.
I was present on the campus of Eastern Washington University (as both a teacher and a student) when a similar uproar began over the proposed presence of an American Indian activist and professor named Ward Churchill. (He had been invited by the Department of Indian Studies to speak during American Indian Awareness Week.) Churchill had made the radical suggestion that past American foreign policy might have had something to do with the 9/11 bombings. His hate mail escalated. His job was threatened as was his life. The then-President of the University un-invited him. The Faculty Senate voted to re-invite Churchill. The President wouldn't change his mind. Churchill came anyway and spoke to us.
It was a mess, that time. Everyone understood that the President's primary job was to raise money for the University and yet there should have been a line beyond which he would not go. It was interesting that at the same time as Churchill was un-invited a man (and porn star) named Ron Jeremy came to speak to the student body about the value of pornography. Yes to difference with respect to sexual preferences; no to differences with respect to political interpretations: Now I am sure the message that this weird pairing of decsions sent to the student body and faculty wasn't intentional, but it was a message nonetheless.
I would think you would want to be very clear what message you send with respect to the religious outrage against the questioning of whether a cracker can indeed be deemed to be kidnapped, because that is, in essence, what Dr. Myers questions. He is asking if a cracker can be reasonably argued to be a living presence. Now I know that there are people who claim that a cracker can be kidnapped. Some of Myers' mail apparently says so directly. But the point is that Dr. Myers is questioning those assumptions. Questioning assumptions seems to me a critical aspect of an academic life, and one at which Dr. Myers excels.
So instead of bowing to the demands of the unquestioning (but demanding) hoards of those who believe crackers can be kidnapped, perhaps you might consider a counter measure and elevate Dr. Myers' status, or at the very least give him a raise.
Thank you,
Carol Shillibeer
Vancouver BC
Posted by: Timcol | July 10, 2008 6:22 PM
Let's put this in context by comparing the sins of PZ against the sins of the Catholic church
PZ Myers:
1) Said rude things about consecrated crackers and threatened to do bad things with said crackers
Catholic Church:
1) Killed thousands during Spanish Inquisition
2) Dealt enormous psychological abuse to adherents through fear-mongering and dogma
3) Sexually abused of thousands of minors (and for which it has never really taken responsibility for)
Sorry, PZ, but you a mere amateur on the sin-scale compared with the Cathies.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 6:22 PM
The weaker position always has the tendency to escalate the competition stakes.
At stake initially, the idea that a cracker has some magical, mysterious property that equates it with actual human flesh. Since this bat-shit-crazy idea is indefensible with reason, the opposing position escalates the stakes - by introducing personal harm and murder. What a bunch of losers.
Posted by: eric | July 10, 2008 6:23 PM
So I'm curious...hypothetical situation: Donohue is put in a situation in which he's forced to decide between saving the life of a person who is about to be murdered, and saving a communion wafer that is about to be thrown into some mud (or otherwise defiled/destroyed - i'm not sure what the equivalent of death would be to a cracker...it's obviously not being eaten, since it happens all the time with no fuss...) which would he choose? how long would it take him to decide? both are people, but one is jesus...hmm.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 10, 2008 6:23 PM
I want to see some of you guys doing YouTube videos with blindfolded crackers where you wear masks and water-board them.
And congratulations PZ! You're now as officially famous as D-list actress Kathy Griffin.
Posted by: Colin M | July 10, 2008 6:24 PM
For what it's worth, here's the letter I sent. Feel free to "remix" it as you desire, but please make it original -- exact copies will probably have a negative impact overall. Bonus: I am a University of Minnesota alum (Computer Science, 2003), which hopefully adds some weight.
Dear President Bruininks,
I am writing in support of Dr. Paul Myers in the controversy regarding his comments about communion wafers (http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/24313139.html). I agree with Myers that it's "insane" that people would send death threats to a UCF college student because of an apparent prank involving taking a single communion wafer out of a church service. Though Myers' blog does not couch his sentiments in a particularly respectful fashion, I think his rhetorical style is effective at clearly communicating his argument that religious Christian extremism is alive and well in the USA. I would be very disappointed if the University were bullied into taking any negative course of action against Dr. Myers for this controversy.
Thank you for your consideration.
(contact details removed)
Posted by: co | July 10, 2008 6:25 PM
#161:
I seem to recall a lot of sermons on turning the other check from the priest of my parish back in the day I was a believer.
Hehe. It seems that tithing has got a lot more blatant these days, eh?
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 6:25 PM
#156: "'I used to be an atheist' but now the Lord has my life..."
You guys have some form letter for that post? Kind of a "I used to be an atheist" mad-libs? Because you pull the same "I used to be an atheist, but now I'm so mature" crap all the time.
It's predictable. It's common. It seems to happen like clockwork as you try to claim some maturity high-ground while espousing your childish beliefs and immature demands for unearned respect.
Posted by: Mark Baxter | July 10, 2008 6:25 PM
Long time reader, first time commenter. I've just sent an email to the president in support of you. You do a fantastic job on this website and long may it continue.
In the spirit of Spartacus.
"I'm PZ Myers!"
:D
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 6:25 PM
Oh, for the love of chocolate cake and orgasms, I'd like to think this was sarcasm, but I just can't tell anymore. We atheists believe, on the basis of historical and scientific evidence, that the Bible was written by people. Not by one god, not by one god with a triple split personality, not by a god who spake unto scribes the words he wanted scritched down on dead animal skins, but people. Frightened, insecure, tribalistic, occasionally thoughtful, sometimes loving people, with the limited knowledge they had available at the time.
This, we believe.
Why do you not respect our belief?
Posted by: TK | July 10, 2008 6:26 PM
Post the hate mail, for great justice.
Posted by: Scott Rhoades | July 10, 2008 6:26 PM
Letter sent. Hopefully he realized that you are better business for the University than outraged Catholics. If I was high school right now I'd be considering the University of Minnesota for a biology degree because I know I would be taught facts by someone I respected. I sent this:
President Bruininks,
In light of the attack on Professor Myers professional status for expressing his view on his blog concerning the catholic church, I'd like to let you know of my support of his constitutional right to free speech. Please do the right thing and ignore Bill Donahue and his Catholic League extremists. Professor Myers inspires many people including young future-biologists who would love to learn from him at your institution..
Thank you,
Scott Rhoades
Ashland, PA
Posted by: raven | July 10, 2008 6:26 PM
Will be done.
I've been through the threat cycle myself many times. FWIW, if they are serious, the FBI is legally obligated to investigate and they will do so. For Cthulhu's sake, turn the serious sounding ones over to the local, state, and federal police. One group of ugly people after me were picked up by the feds and last I heard, were explaining their activities to a federal judge with a felony indictment to show for it.
Posted by: sfatheist | July 10, 2008 6:28 PM
PZ,
I just sent a letter to Mr.Bruininks, and copied you. Please suggest something else I (we) can do for you. I really want to help with this unwarranted attempt at censorship.
Best Wishes from San Francisco
Posted by: j (not J) | July 10, 2008 6:28 PM
Starbuck:
"You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?
It's in the Bible.."
You are so dense, so idiotic...I can't stop laughing at what passes for thought in your little pea brain.! That is probably the worst case of circular logic EVER!
Astrid, Baal (insert any deity here) says you, Starbuck, are an asswipe because you don't believe in them (and you should be put to death if you don't convert).
or
My nonexistant Purple Unicorn God told me personnally that you were a jerkward and latent homosexual because you don't believe in him. So you can't play with us until you renounce all your heathen pink unicorn-as-god denying ways.
Do you get it now? Your claiming the bible is true, but what about the Book of Mormon? It's even newer than the New Testament. What about the Quran? I'm sure it says that you are an infidel because you don't believe it to be the word of Allah.
You are so sad, little man.
Posted by: William | July 10, 2008 6:29 PM
I've send my pro-PZ spam off to President Bruininks.
And I hope that kid licked the cracker before returning it. :)
Posted by: Randy Stimpson aka Intelligent Designer | July 10, 2008 6:29 PM
Hey PZ,
If you are required to post an apology in order to keep your job will you do it?
Posted by: Mena | July 10, 2008 6:29 PM
It's really annoying when those wafers rise up after three days. Just sayin'...
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 6:29 PM
Who (a) did not "convert" to theism, but to a vague kind of deism; (b) did so for logically and scientifically invalid reasons; and (c) is an old man who can, with no ill will, be described as past his intellectual prime.
Your argument from authority is even more impotent than most.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 6:29 PM
"...not by a god who spake unto scribes the words he wanted scritched down on dead animal skins..."
Wonderful.
And, to further clarify, what is this thing called god? Without parallel exemplar I have no way of understanding this concept. Is there something you can show us? Or is all there is are the scritchings of men?
(I'm stealing the scritch verb Blake - with all due respect. Hilarious.)
Posted by: MH | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
Dave Mueller, #156: "Threatening to profane the Body of Christ is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you".
How about "Drawing pictures of the prophet is basically worse to us than threatening to kill us, so you really shouldn't be surprised to get some serious anger directed towards you".
All religious extremists are clinically insane.
Posted by: Schnurx | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
Frankly ... even if desecrating a cracker would be as evil as cogvering up a single "child fuck incident", PZ would have to buy the yearly cracker production of the united states to even come close to the evilness of the "Kinderfickerschutzgemeinschaft auf Gegenseitigkeit" called catholic church.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
#156 "I used to be an atheist..."
Yeah, right. I've heard that so many times from Christians, usually guest speakers who see it as a way to get instant "street cred." It's always the same. "I used to be an atheist, I was so godless and lived it up and didn't care 'bout nothin' or no one.
But then Juh-ay-zuss came into my life and look at me now. But for the Grace of God, I'd still be out there whorein' and scorin, dopin' and mopin! Amen!"
Most of us are atheists because we see no evidence for these religions. Unless you can provide some real evidence and not just personal accounts or God-of-the-gaps arguments, we aren't going to be swayed.
And I'm familiar with the Bible verses about how "the fool says in his heart there is no God," etc. It's a cute little game that the author plays, knowing that he's got an indefensible position. So just say anyone who disagrees is a fool! There, now we all feel nice and smug. If someone threatens you with rationality, just point at this verse, huff and walk away.
Posted by: WarrenS | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
I am sending the following in tomorrow's mail:
Dear President Bruininks,
I am writing to offer my support to Professor P.Z. Myers, and to urge you to ignore the campaign against him which was initiated by the Catholic League.
As a committed secular humanist, as an academic, as an intellectual, and as a Faculty-Member-Once-Removed of the University of Minnesota (my mother, Dr. _______, was co-founder of the Minnesota Project for Continuing Education for Women back in the 1950s, and I missed being born in one of her Introduction to Psychology lectures by about an hour and a half), I wish to reiterate my support for Professor Myers and to urge you not to capitulate in any way to the forces of bigotry and intolerance exemplified by the Catholic League and their leader, Bill Donohue.
Sincerely Yours,
WarrenS
-- oh, and by the way, I'm a first-time poster but long-time lurker. Love your blog! --
Posted by: God | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
Yes, it's true, I do exist. And I do think that atheists are fools.
But all you believers are fools as well. Do you not realize that there is nothing that you can do to affect Me? Pray all you want. Perform rituals. Eat crackers. Fight holy wars. I'll laugh. I don't care because I don't have to care.
I'm eternal. Why should I care about anything you do or don't do?
I'm eternal. Why should I care about what atheists do or don't do?
Do you think it hurts me? Do you think I'm as pathetic as you humans?
PS: Satan is my sockpuppet!
Posted by: UKGP | July 10, 2008 6:30 PM
FWIW:
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 6:31 PM
Post the hate mail, for great justice.
Take off every 'ZIG'!!
You know what you doing
I am aware of all all internet traditions.
Posted by: Steve Jeffers | July 10, 2008 6:31 PM
'You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?'
I'll do you a deal: if your God calls me a fool to my face, I'll convert. Send Him round.
Posted by: Doug | July 10, 2008 6:31 PM
Would the Catholic League be pleased if Myers changed his position and did the Christian thing and molested a holy cracker?
Posted by: cary | July 10, 2008 6:33 PM
#205:
But did they start "believing again" because of logic or reason? Was there some overwhelming evidence that pointed towards the existence of god?
No, probably not. I'd bet most "former atheists" converted to belief for emotional reasons, or they wanted easy answers to the questions science can't yet answer.
And personally, pooh-poohing atheism as a "phase" is so ridiculous I won't even regard it.
I think in reference to #156, Sure, there are plenty of intelligent folks who believe in a god, but that doesn't mean they're right. I find that humans have a very, very tough time of letting go of religion, even if presented with overwhelming evidence that their religion is based on falsehoods and fabrications. That doesn't mean that somehow we're imbued with religion, it just means that religions these days have a very, very good knack at getting people to believe anything they want them to and to hold onto it for dear life.
Posted by: Mike | July 10, 2008 6:33 PM
I took the communion as a (too young) Protestant. Their beliefs were inconsistent with the Catholic church... Please share the outrage with all the misguided Christians!! They acutally ATE it without believing in your (well thought out) views. :)
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 6:33 PM
True statistic: 100% of people are atheists at birth.
Posted by: Epinephrine | July 10, 2008 6:34 PM
Sent my support off.
Posted by: J | July 10, 2008 6:34 PM
Do you people kick up the same level of fuss whenever it's the Muslims that are going batshit ballistic over cartoons or teddybears or (most recently) a cute puppy? I don't think so. On Pharygnula, every thread about such a topic seems to infallibly degenerate into an analysis of the effects of European colonialism and the socio-economic state of Muslim societies.
That's not to say you shouldn't kick up this level of fuss. But realize how soft you're going on Islam.
Posted by: Mai | July 10, 2008 6:34 PM
Letter written and posted PZ. Good luck and love your blog!
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 6:34 PM
Randy Stimpson (#227):
Hey Randy,
Have you stopped beating your gay lover yet?
"Yes" or "No" will do, thank you very much.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 10, 2008 6:35 PM
I seem to remember they tasted like shitty little dry bits of cardboard. And they inevitably stuck to your palate and you had to use you tongue in most unladylike manner to peel it off. Hey, there's a thought. I tongued Jesus. Woot!
Posted by: raven | July 10, 2008 6:37 PM
Busy today. I will write tonight.
Hard letter to write. "I understand Dr. Myers has been threatened with death for contemplating cracker abuse. I abuse crackers often, they are sold in stores and I eat them. Ritz, cheez-its, soda crackers and occasionally sociables. I understand that some people claim crackers are really Jesus. They don't look remotely like Jesus. And it seems to me that the omnipotent creator of the universe could take care of itself even if it looked like a mundane cracker.
Ignore the good Christians that are threatening to kill Myers. They know not what they do as they are retarded religious fanatics and all. In fact, you might want to increase the police security at Morris unless you want some pathetic headlines for U. of Minnesota, "Professor killed over a cracker by psychotic loons."
Yours in Christ,
Signed Dr. Real Name.
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 6:37 PM
First time visiting here, eh?
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 10, 2008 6:38 PM
J at #244
I understand it requires a brain with functioning cells to do a blog search but give it a go. You'll find PZ is plenty critical of Muslims who act in similarly batshit, insane and illogical ways as Christians or, for that matter, any other sky-fairy-loving , juju-worshipping wankers.
Posted by: Sharon | July 10, 2008 6:38 PM
Ooh, I'm a UMN alum. I will send a letter on your behalf, I'm sure they'll listen to someone who might give them money if she ever pays off her student loans. ;)
This is one of my favorite blogs PZ, keep up the great work.
Posted by: Logicel | July 10, 2008 6:39 PM
Do you really think this juvenile crap impresses people, asshat?
______
Quite a number of theist and religious apologists are oddly complimenting us, comparing us to children. Jebus says something about how we must all be children before we can see the kingdom of god, so it must be one of the best compliments they can pay us. No? They are trying to insult us? Wow, they need to take a remedial course in insulting and maybe also take a refresher in their holy book.
Posted by: Moses | July 10, 2008 6:39 PM
Flew is apparently suffering from dementia. This allowed an unscrupulous hack to take advantage of him and "co-author" (that is in reality, wholly wrote) a book that makes great claims about the existence of God that are, in parts, partially or wholly opposite everything Flew wrote before he became unstable.
That an unscrupulous Christian could take advantage of a mentally ill and incompetent person is, well, par for the course. Because, well, that's what you do - exploit the fear and frailties of others with vague promises and concrete threats.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 6:39 PM
Fuck the heck?
The situations are not fully comparable. Now, we have (a) direct threats against our host, which makes the matter personal; and (b) an influx of drive-by trolls insisting upon their own dogmatic, inegalitarian, intolerant mysticism. Of course the comments will be more heated now. In this circumstance, the emotional reaction cannot but be more outspoken, while most of the participants have consistent intellectual positions in the two cases.
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 6:40 PM
I wanted to know if "Desecration of the Host" is a mortal sin (penalty: eternal torture) and I found this Catholic blog that has a long thread about it.
"By receiving on the tongue you avoid this possibility, because the entire host, particles and all are already in your mouth. There is no chance of them falling about, unless you wag your tongue in a disrespectful manner, or play with it after receiving it. In which case you would be guilty of mortal sin."
More insanity here: http://tinyurl.com/65swxb
From a Time magazine article dated Mar. 05, 1934: "It is mortal sin for anyone but a priest or deacon even to touch the Host."
So according to the Catholic beliefs, the student who didn't eat the wafer can be expected to be tortured in hell for the next several trillion years.
Posted by: TDJ | July 10, 2008 6:40 PM
Mr. Myers you may hold whatever opinions you wish about Catholicism and Catholics, and express them freely. What you cannot do in view of your institution's mission "to empower members of the campus community to particulate fully and thoughtfully in a diverse society - regionally, nationally, and globally" is to incite to hatred.
And you have done that.
In fact, I have some doubts about taking you seriously. I believe that this is a publicity stunt. By and large, you have succeded. Congratulations. Judging by most of psycophantic reaction I read here, you have achieved that.
The bad example that you have set diminishes the University of Minnessota's efforts to pursue its mission and have in fact, brought dishonor to the University and to you personally. I hereby question your character and your integrity for having done so.
I do, however, believe in redemption and I hope that you come to see that in order to disagree with others you don't have to incite to hatred, and to recognize this realization through a public committment to state your opinions civilly and thoughtfully in the future.
-Theo
Posted by: k8 | July 10, 2008 6:42 PM
People, people....
You are defending a publicity seeking FOOL!
==============================================
The top atheists attack religion in the theoretical ground and would never stoop down to attacking actual sacred and physical objects of a tradition.
Do you think Dawkins or Harris would pull a stunt like this?
SO, why stand up for this fool if not for a sheer sheep-like mimetic desire?
You are not doing yourselves any favors...you think outrages Catholics look "extreme," take a look in the mirror...
Posted by: Brian Williams | July 10, 2008 6:42 PM
Dear Mr. Bruininks,
As you are certainly aware, the Catholic Leagues Bill Donohue is running a campaign to oust or at least censor Prof. PZ Myers.
I wish to write in support of Prof Myers. The blog posting that Prof. Myers wrote, in which he said that he would desecrate a cracker was an excellent retort to the insanity of the Catholic communities reaction to the earlier cracker incident.
Mr. Donohue will no doubt claim that this talk of cracker abuse is Catholic defamation and is not in the realm of free speech. The very fact that anyone could consider the treatment of a cracker (no matter what's been done to it) is very troubling. It is reminiscent of the "Host Desecration" incidents in which Jews were burned or otherwise killed and tortured because it was believed that they had desecrated a Eucharist. Clearly the people that are at risk here are not Catholic.
If we allow mobs of irrational people to punish others that do not respect their beliefs, there are very dark times ahead for humanity. If one is required to respect and affirm the Eucharist as the body of Christ, then there is nothing stopping the forced belief in Christianity or any other religious belief.
Please let the days of actual religious intolerance be behind us and let no harm come to Prof. Myers for his justly held opinions. After all it is just a cracker.
Sincerely,
Brian Williams
Posted by: Noadi | July 10, 2008 6:42 PM
I did my part and sent an email supporting you and this blog.
It makes me so angry that people would send you death threats over something so ridiculous. I can't imagine what goes through the head of someone who would send a death threat. I hope none of them are serious but still report them.
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 6:43 PM
TDJ, so PZ's desire to abuse a wafer is worse than death threats against a student?
Posted by: Adobedragon | July 10, 2008 6:44 PM
Supportive, polite email sent with my real name, yes indeedie.
Now gimme me a poll to crash. :)
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 10, 2008 6:44 PM
#257
I think we should listen to K8. He/she is clearly one of us. I am completely convinced! For reals.
Posted by: Adrienne | July 10, 2008 6:45 PM
How has PZ Myers tried to "incite hatred" towards anyone? He has tried to incite hatred for silly beliefs that make people threaten a young man with expulsion, injury, or worse. But hatred for stupid beliefs is not the same thing as hatred for individuals
Posted by: Ryan Cunningham | July 10, 2008 6:45 PM
Theo, can you describe a specific point where PZ has incited anyone to hate anyone else?
Posted by: Forti | July 10, 2008 6:45 PM
-sigh- I knew something like that would happen.
Anyway, did you actually receive any pieces of Jesus yet, Doc?
Posted by: Zach Miller | July 10, 2008 6:46 PM
I think Jesus tastes great with cheese spread. There's a brand in a rectangular clear plastic box with a blue lid. It's...phenomenal. It really adds some zing to Teh_Christ, because otherwise he's just kind of salty and bland.
Posted by: Ashley | July 10, 2008 6:47 PM
lol! #247
That description couldn't be more correct! I just got done telling my boyfriend about how they stick to the top of your mouth...ugh, they were awful! I'm so glad I don't have to eat those things anymore.
Posted by: Miguel | July 10, 2008 6:47 PM
Hey PZ, I love your blog. I'm sending an email to your President right now, even though I hail from Brazil. Hope he can see you reach us overseas :)
Posted by: John C. Randolph | July 10, 2008 6:47 PM
Bill Donahue can go fuck himself. He should do so, and leave the altar boys alone.
-jcr
Posted by: Adrienne | July 10, 2008 6:48 PM
@266...
My Jesus wafers never had any salt on them. At least, none that I could taste.
Posted by: mandrellian | July 10, 2008 6:49 PM
Good onya PZ, I'm sure your President will understand :)
Here's my letter:
Dear Mr Bruininks
This email is in support of PZ Myers, whose recent Pharyngula post ridiculing some strident over-reactions to a student leaving a church with a communion wafer has attracted a large amount of hate-mail. Some call for his dismissal while others, more troublingly, are calling for his head. It also appears the Catholic League's Bill Donohue has started some sort of witch-hunt against Prof Myers, but as I'm sure you're familiar with the situation I won't go into detail.
I don't think for a second that PZ is (or should be) in danger of being dismissed, censured or disciplined in any way, but because Mr Donohue seems intent on seeing him crucified for exercising his First Amendment right to free speech and is fomenting some sort of PR campaign against him, I felt it was only right that I formally voiced my support for PZ on this occasion. The US seems to be a hotbed for Christian extremism, more so now than ever before, and even though I'm an Australian citizen I won't stand by and watch someone I respect be dragged through the mud by hysterical fanatics without expressing solidarity with him. It may only be a symbolic gesture but I hope it adds to some kind of critical mass of support to counter Donohue's smear campaign.
Kind Regards
[Real Name supplied :)]
Posted by: ddr | July 10, 2008 6:49 PM
Letter sent. Copy to PZ
Posted by: jimmiraybob | July 10, 2008 6:50 PM
"Nevertheless, these crackers are an important symbol to a certain population, and announcing on your blog that you want to desecrate that symbol is deliberate disrespect."
As opposed to conquering, enslaving, and attempting genocide of indigenous peoples around the world in the name of the Christ and God? I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that that has hurt a lot of feelings too. Pardon me while I don't shed a tear for your grief over the insult to your symbol.
How many times have you/the Church/the Catholic League/the Protestant Evangelical nation condemned unbelievers, faggots, uppity women, or believers in the "wrong" religion to eternal burning in a lake of liquid fire. How many times have they piously beseeched the Lord to rain down his fiery wrath onto whole nations? Sheesh, and you're offended? Stand back, wambulance coming through.
Now, stop insulting my feelings with your spreading of superstitious ignorance, defense of barbaric flesh and blood eating rituals and your whiny indifference to your own participation in sins against humanity.
Yours in FSM
Posted by: Jonathan Rothwell | July 10, 2008 6:52 PM
It's hard to believe this hate mail isn't some kind of sick joke, it is so ludicrous.
You have my support, PZ. As soon as the Earth swivels so that the Sun can light up my desk sufficiently, I intend to write to the President, simply to defend the right to free speech concerning religious beliefs.
People consider it the norm to call the 9/11 bombers 'nutcases', so why is it now considered to be sacrilegious to make a joke in a piece about one's honest opinion of a religious ceremony? This is a sign that the world is completely insane.
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | July 10, 2008 6:53 PM
Done. Snail mail with full name and signature.
Posted by: Bob Russell | July 10, 2008 6:54 PM
PZ - Please post the emails you have received....and notify the police about the threatening ones
Posted by: mikeg | July 10, 2008 6:55 PM
but, but... crackers aren't comic fodder! http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1855
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 6:55 PM
Well, given that Dawkins voiced his approval of the Blasphemy Challenge, I don't think he'd be upset if, let's say, young people all around the world started uploading YouTube videos of themselves desecrating crackers. As he wrote,
So, he might think he has better things to do with his time (and maybe he does), but I doubt he'd be opposed to the principle.
Posted by: Jors | July 10, 2008 6:55 PM
Dembski's take: "Paul Zachary Myers: Evolutionist and Now Imminent Desecrator".
A mere homophonological error: PZ is an eminent desecrator!
Of course it's also funny that "evolutionist" is thrown in to boot, as if that counts as a strike against him.
Posted by: raven | July 10, 2008 6:56 PM
Seems to me that cracker worship violates one or two of the Ten commandments. The one's about idolatry. "Thou shalt not worship graven images or have any other gods."
The cracker is just a freaking cracker. It isn't god for Cthulhu's sake.
Posted by: Kryth | July 10, 2008 6:57 PM
Theo, PZ is inciting hatred? Hatred of crackers?
I hope your a writer at The Onion. If not you need to check yourself.
Oh, yeah F*** Ritz.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | July 10, 2008 6:58 PM
I'll fire a hand signed snail mail letter off to the UMN president. Academic freedom must be maintained.
To all the Catholics demanding respect, as soon as you show the same respect you demand for my belief in a woman's right to choose, a gay couples right to marry, the need for the pedophilic priests to be prosecuted and defrocked, we can talk. Otherwise, take your hypocritical attitude and give it a long walk off a shot pier.
Posted by: Jennifer Ouellette | July 10, 2008 6:59 PM
Your poor university president will be inundated even more with emails. I've added my voice of support. And do let us know if you or your family are in any real danger.
I cannot, alas, say I am SURPRISED by this hysterical, irrational reaction. I grew up with fundamentalists...
Posted by: Steve Jeffers | July 10, 2008 6:59 PM
'Do you people kick up the same level of fuss whenever it's the Muslims that are ... '
Yeah, OK. Let's play this game.
When you hear some news report that a Muslim father has beaten his daughter to death for talking to a boy, presumably you admire him?
Because you're on *that* side of the equation. Simple as that.
After all, you're supporting the people who are threatening to kill a man over what he thinks about a biscuit.
Posted by: kryth | July 10, 2008 7:01 PM
I can't come up with anything better than
"Get a f***ing life Bill".
Posted by: Michael Pack | July 10, 2008 7:01 PM
This is still an argument over the "kidnapping" of an inanimate cracker, correct?
Listen, if Billy and his traveling inquisition want to look like fools, let them. But don't let them pull you into their flaming bullshit with them; we're a recession and new pants ain't cheap.
Alright, carry on.
Posted by: Jack Of Knives | July 10, 2008 7:02 PM
Message sent. I hope this serves as a suitable counter demonstration to the Catholic's Antics...
Posted by: Jack Of Knives | July 10, 2008 7:04 PM
*Should be "the Catholic League's antics..."
Posted by: DS | July 10, 2008 7:04 PM
At the risk of being attacked as a concern troll, I have to say I agree with what Glen D's said a couple of times on this thread: Donahue's challenge is ridiculous, I agree with the substance of the point PZ is making... but, the whole thing does seem in poor taste.
The reason I wouldn't desecrate a host? Many people I love (though don't necessarily agree with) would be hurt and offended by such an act. Doing so anyway might be politically provocative and maybe even morally justifiable, but it would also be... classless. Just because (otherwise good) people believe something you think is stupid, and just because other people who are not so good have used those beliefs to justify a lot of bad things, doesn't mean doing something hurtful is therefore ok.
I try not to cause people pain unnecessarily. Sometimes, an action that will cause some people pain is necessary because of a greater good. I don't see how that would be the case here.
So I won't be sending a letter in support of PZ. His job certainly isn't in any danger, anyway. But personally I don't think he needs to be commended for being, frankly, a jerk.
Posted by: Friendo | July 10, 2008 7:04 PM
Death threats? But the great Ceiling Cat(holic) has said:
Surely the Cat(holic)s would never disobey their own commandment...unless...you haven't been dressing up Cat(holic)s have you Pizzy?
Because that would be disrespectful!
Posted by: Mooser | July 10, 2008 7:05 PM
C'mon, PZ! You should know better! Insult one cracker, and the whole South will rise against you.
Posted by: TheOtherOne | July 10, 2008 7:05 PM
Letter will go in the mail tomorrow . . . .
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 7:06 PM
Dembski's take: "Paul Zachary Myers: Evolutionist and Now Imminent Desecrator".
Immanentize the Desecration!
Posted by: Sastra | July 10, 2008 7:06 PM
Here's mine:
Dear President Bruininks;
I am writing in support of Professor PZ Myers, freedom of speech, and the ability to honesty criticize and disagree with any and all ideas, including religious beliefs. When people wish to close all discussion, they call an idea (or person or place or thing) "sacred." I think that, as a matter of principle, we need to challenge the sacred, because it is we who set it apart. And we are all human, and can always be wrong. We need constant reminders of that.
"Respect" comes in many forms. It does not always involve deference, or agreement, or gentleness. Sometimes respect entails treating the other side as intellectual equals, and not as children who need to be appeased, coddled, or pandered to. I do not think PZ Myers has been disrespectful to Catholics. On the contrary. He is treating them as the same as himself. Each individual is capable of recognizing the absurd, the hypocritical, and the unjust for themselves. They are not their religion.
The faith that Faith is privileged -- and that believing in irrational things is a form of mental and moral fortitude -- needs to be challenged, and at times even ridiculed. Faith gives people too much power, and closes off dissent. The original violation of the eucharist was perhaps rude and a bit foolish. The extreme over-reaction was the outrage. People should not think that their religious beliefs are themselves sacred. Doing so makes them dangerous. It always leads to violence, because it cannot be defended by reason, and force is eventually all that's left.
So PZ Myer's criticism of the reaction to Mr. Cook was spot on. We need people who are willing to say hard things. We need people who are willing to challenge the sacred. We need people who are impolite enough to say "a teddy bear cannot offend" and "a cracker is a cracker -- stop and think." Just as we need people to say "atheism is stupid -- of course God exists, just look around."
A view which cannot stand up to examination and ridicule is not worth keeping. So whether they keep their beliefs or change them, PZ Myers has treated them with the respect of a friend. He has, when all is said and done, defended being reasonable.
I think that is what brings us all together, whatever our beliefs.
Posted by: Cheezits | July 10, 2008 7:06 PM
I just ate some Cheezits, will I go to Hell or did I offend some cult?
I for one am shocked and appalled.
Can I just mention here how much I love the phrase "frackin' cracker"?
Posted by: J (not J) | July 10, 2008 7:08 PM
Kate or K8,
What, like, is your favorite subject in High School? Like, you are sooo cool. U R a deep thinker + u rock 4ever! Even tho you're obviously not an "A" student, but obviously still a virgin...
Posted by: jimmiraybob | July 10, 2008 7:11 PM
Amen and pass the Holy Mozzarella
FSM League President
jimmiraybob
Parmesanite heretic!
Posted by: ERV | July 10, 2008 7:12 PM
Ummmmm...... Everyone knows the Catholic Dough-Boy is an Antisemite and likes degrading Muslims, right?
Just so everyone is clear on the sheer hilarity of this hypocricy...
Posted by: Keith B | July 10, 2008 7:12 PM
E-mail sent. It actually took a little while to draft, longer than I expect anyway. I won't bother reposting it here. There's no real reason to since everything about this absurdity has probably already been said at one place or another. I just wanted to let you know that this secular Texan is backing you and your Pharyngula blog. I read it at least once or twice a day and without it I would feel a little more alone in the world (especially since I'm constantly surrounded by so many Evangelical Christian Republicans in this state). Keep your chin up, keep your job and keep ridiculing nonsense.
- Keith
Posted by: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood | July 10, 2008 7:13 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that in this day and age people continue to propound the divinity of bread products.
It's enough to make me sympathize, albeit briefly, with the cause of reformed religion.
Was it not the Covenanters who said:
We shall, in like manner, without respect of persons, endeavour the extirpation of Popery, Prelacy (that is, Church government by archbishops, bishops, their chancellors and commissioners, deans, deans and chapters, archdeacons, and all other ecclesiastical officers depending on that hierarchy), superstition, heresy, schism, profaneness, and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 10, 2008 7:13 PM
#296 What is this crap? I've been here way longer than Kate and J (not...J?) never hits on me. I call shenanigans.
Oh and while I'm griping about stuff, PLEASE PZ take that scary wasp/hornet head off the rotating banner at the top of the page.
Thing freaks me out hardcore, for serious.
Posted by: Stella | July 10, 2008 7:13 PM
Done.
Dear President Bruininks,
I am writing in support of Dr. P. Z. Myers, in the wake of the Catholic League's out-of-proportion and inquisitional calls for his silencing.
A Texan and graduate of the University of Texas at Austin, as well as the University of York (UK), I have to admit the only thing I know about the University of Minnesota is that PZ Myers is on the faculty there. His blog, Pharyngula, contains some of the most accessible, timely, and fascinating discussion about contemporary biology on the Internet. I believe it is also one of the most read blogs by a Minnesotan, in any subject.
Aside from these reasons, I shouldn't have to point out that the University of Minnesota taking any action against Dr. Myers, who - as an Associate Professor - surely has tenure, would be betraying its mission as striving "to sustain an open exchange of ideas in an environment that embodies the values of academic freedom, responsibility, integrity, and cooperation"; never mind making itself the pitied laughingstock of academia. To allow a shrill group of partisan irrationalists to dictate the boundaries of the discourse or to influence the depth of scholarship at UMN (or, indeed, in the wider society), would be unthinkable.
Please make a record of my support of Dr. Myers. His work and writing on evolution and popular science in general are extremely important at this time, when the obstinate, calliopean voices of anachronistic minds are doing everything in their power to stifle real debate and, real science. They want throw a dark shadow over the enlightenment, and you are in a position to stand in their path.
Many thanks for your time,
Stella Realname
Posted by: Patricia | July 10, 2008 7:14 PM
#118 - Miss Shea flounces out of the room... No she does not!
We strumpets do the flouncing here. The Sluts sashay.
Your bar tab for grog & swill is now at 12 ducats. You can on this special day, call 'waf-foonery' went to your head or offer outrageous french flattery and I'll 'forgive' you your tab back to 100%
The Strumpet ;)
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 7:15 PM
Parmesanite heretic!
Splitter!!!
Posted by: Brett | July 10, 2008 7:16 PM
Poor PZ,
What a victim....bigots PZ cry too!
:-(
PS - one wacko on campus calling the FL kid in the middle of the night does not equal a Fatwa!
Atheists are such drama queens...
Posted by: j (not J) | July 10, 2008 7:17 PM
Theo or TDJ,
I saw your website. You are a brilliant thinker, with no bias whatsoever.
I'm sure we're all hurt that you feel the way you do, especially Dr. Myers. We've seen the light through your masterful use of logic, personal insight and unimpeachable code of ethics and morality. May your God go with you...
Posted by: Wallace Breen | July 10, 2008 7:17 PM
There you go again, Dr. Meyers. What won't you desecrate? First it is the flesh of God, but where will you stop, I wonder? What's next for you? A headline reading "Wonderbread: Perhaps not SO wonderful?" I would not be surprised.
You have plunged humanity into free fall. Even if you offered your surrender now, I cannot guarantee that Our Benefactors would accept it. At the moment I fear they have begun to look upon even me with suspicion - so much for serving as humanity's representative.
This operation has no room for a rogue biologist.
Posted by: Maragon | July 10, 2008 7:18 PM
Does anyone else feel a sense of profound pity for Dave Mueller?
He's pulled out practically ever fallacy he could think of(ex-atheist, pascal's wager, appeals to authority, scripture quotes, ad hominem) - all in defense of his cracker.
Posted by: Logicel | July 10, 2008 7:20 PM
DS wrote: I try not to cause people pain unnecessarily. Sometimes, an action that will cause some people pain is necessary because of a greater good. I don't see how that would be the case here.
____
The most important and biggest lessons in my life to date have been accompanied by emotional pain. It is called growing up; we don't like to do it, we would prefer to stay in the womb, but reality says otherwise.
Your stance reminds me of the Tasaday (a supposedly stone age Philippine tribe found out to be a hoax)--they claimed that they abhor violence so much that they did not stab a frog with a stick, no, they slowly, taking hours, thumped it to death by tapping the forehead of the frog. And they thought that was merciful?
Mel Brooks famously recounted how a Freudian analyst cured a patient from compulsively tearing paper by simply saying, "Don't tear paper. What are you tearing paper for? Stop tearing paper."
That is what PZ and many of us are doing here. "Don't tear your rationality. What are you tearing your rationality for? Stop tearing your rationality.
Posted by: alec | July 10, 2008 7:20 PM
I've been asleep for a while, so PZ: crack these fuckers' heads with my blessing. The Catholic League are some of the nastiest, most dishonest, and most pretentious idiots ever to be confirmed, and we're talking about the church primarily responsible for the Crusades, so that's saying something.
They're as viciously anti-immigrant as any natvist anti-Catholic, and they basically ignore the one or two things that makes the Church tolerable to begin with. If there were a God he would have cracked open the Earth and swallowed up Donohue long ago.
Posted by: Geoffrey | July 10, 2008 7:20 PM
Professor Myers,
I'm going to send an email and a snail mail letter.
Go Ducks!!!!
Posted by: SC | July 10, 2008 7:20 PM
Shorter J @ #244: "Sam Harris, you're so fine!"
Posted by: Doug | July 10, 2008 7:21 PM
"Atheists are such drama queens..."
Yeah, because we're the ones getting all violent over crackers and cartoons.
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 7:21 PM
Yeah DS, you do sound like a concern troll. Even if you do believe that Myers' actions are jerky and in poor taste, is it appropriate for an interest group to campaign to take away a tenured professor's job? Isn't the nature of free speech that obnoxious speech needs more protection than bland speech.
Even if you find Myers' actions objectionable (and I, personally, do not), isn't his freedom of expression worth protecting? I was seesawing on whether I'd send a letter, and now I've convinced myself that I have to. I don't want to align myself with the concern trolls.
Posted by: pazuzu | July 10, 2008 7:21 PM
PZ, I knew you had gone to far when I read your post.
It was not just any old cracker you know.
People have been killed over these crackers, and I am sorry to say no one will be
able to save your tenure now. Be thankful that you will not be burned at the stake,
and next time (if indeed there will be one) just shut TFU. Just a cracker? OMFG!
Posted by: ngong | July 10, 2008 7:23 PM
Meanwhile, another e-mail campaign is undoubtedly being waged, with priests worldwide being asked to raise the wafer security threat level to "red".
Posted by: Craig | July 10, 2008 7:23 PM
Where you and Fox are going astray is in thinking the cracker is symbolic of the body of Christ. To the Church, it IS the body of Christ. Really. The wafer is transubstantiated when it is blessed by the priest, miraculously transformed into the actual body of Christ in such a way that the change cannot be detected by human senses. Even if the priest is a drunken child molester high on crack, his mumbling the right words over the wafer makes it the actual body of a long dead man. And that, my friends, is lunacy.
Can the Catholic spokespeople really not tell the difference between criticizing a belief and threatening a person? Good grief.
Craig
Posted by: Karley | July 10, 2008 7:23 PM
I made a Facebook group.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18536863233
Fellow Facebookers, please join!
Posted by: SteveC | July 10, 2008 7:24 PM
@256,
> is to incite to hatred.
> And you have done that.
Baloney. Thinking a person is stupid is not the same as hating that person.
Anybody who thinks transubstantiation turns a cracker in to the corpse of Jesus is just as stupid as a person who thinks 1 + 1 = 5. I don't hate such people, I do however think they are stupid.
All PZ has done is threaten to publicize the completely obvious stupidity of certain Catholic ideas which aren't as well known as they might be.
The idea of the transubstantiation -- that a cracker actually turns into Jesus -- is indefensibly stupid, and there is simply no getting around this. Hence the death threats against PZ, the threats that his job should be taken away, that whining that he's being "intolerant," etc. There is no good defense for the notion of the transubstantiation, so people are resorting to the only kind of defense left, the worst kind of defense -- threats.
Mocking people who claim that 1 + 1 = 5 and who also demand that this idea should be respected, should be an expected outcome. Likewise with the idiotic notion of the Jesus cookie.
I don't hate Catholics who believe this, I pity them for being so gullible and stupid, and have no problem mocking those beliefs in the hope that others would see how stupid those beliefs are.
And if ever there was an appropriate time to use the word "stupid," this is it. It doesn't get any more stupid than a magic Jesus cookie.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 10, 2008 7:24 PM
For what its worth, while you're all in letter writing mode, you might try sending one to Bill O'Donoghue at
cl@catholicleague.org
I'm sure he'd love to hear our opinions on his campaign to try and influence PZ's boss.
Posted by: MikeP | July 10, 2008 7:25 PM
Apparently it is not sacrilegious to offer discounts on the proto-body-of-christ (crackers before the priest casts his spell on them). (500 crackers for just $7.63 at eChurch Depot!)
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 7:25 PM
"It was not just any old cracker you know."
Umm, yes it was. Incantations don't work....they're not real. The magical utterances directed at the cracker do not affect the cracker. If you can show they do, then by all means, show us all.
No. It's a stupid cracker that is being worshiped by idiots.
Posted by: ShavenYak | July 10, 2008 7:25 PM
I somehow cannot bring myself to write a serious message about such a ridiculous topic, so I'm afraid anything I write would be more harmful than helpful. I'm sure there is no shortage of Pharyngulites rising to the occasion at this time, so I'll just wish you the best and continue having lulz about the whole situation over at Rants 'n Raves.
Posted by: dubiquiabs | July 10, 2008 7:27 PM
Starbuck, read some history of the Catholic Church. Whenever these guys (and to a lesser extent, other churches) held levers of power, they caused mischief or worse. Blacks were victims, Jews were victims, gays were and are victims, while Catholics in power were and are perpetrators. See the diff?
What is so dangerous is the combination of unsupported beliefs with the ability to force these beliefs and their consequences on others. Given a chance, they'll go for it.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 10, 2008 7:27 PM
This seems appropriate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5btRmGiYi6Q
"The body of chriiiiiiiiist."
Posted by: Scrofulum | July 10, 2008 7:28 PM
Not sure if they want to get messages of support from someone in the UK, but I've heard about catholics setting up some chapters over here as well, so I think an international show of solidarity against such cults is acceptable.
Also, I like to say body of christ when I eat a pringle.
Posted by: reggie | July 10, 2008 7:29 PM
Mine Own Letter (SENT!)
The Catholic League wants me to write in demanding the immediate removal of PZ
Myers. Bill Donohue says ""It is hard to think of anything more vile than to
intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ."
I can safely presume that a man who has achieved your position would be able to
discern the difference between a cracker and the body of a long dead human or
supreme deity. The uproar over this abused Eucharist is reminiscent of Muslims
rioting over cartoon depictions of Mohammad. It is the height of irrationality
and any calls for the removal of PZ in regards to this matter will hopefully get
the same attention your saltines get just before you crumble them up into your
tomato soup.
Thank you for your time.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 10, 2008 7:30 PM
Alex (#322):
/me starts in confusion
Hold on a sec, I gotta test this.
/me points chopstick at Bill Donohue
"Avada kedavra!"
Mmmm, didn't seem to have any effect. Must be my pronunciation.
"A-VA-da ke-DAV-ra!"
Etc.
I can keep this going until I get bored. If some sarcasm-impaired fellow accuses me of advocating violence, I'll be entertained and keep going longer.
Posted by: Ross Nixon | July 10, 2008 7:31 PM
Dear PZ, you said "We need a counter-campaign from the secular community."
Can born-again Christians join in too?
We support your campaign to call magic crackers, completely crackers!
Posted by: jj | July 10, 2008 7:31 PM
Mailed.
Phil, copied you, check your inbox.
jj
Posted by: MikeM | July 10, 2008 7:31 PM
Starbuck, that was one of the worst concern-troll postings ever.
You're welcome.
Please be advised that it provided further motivation for me to, once again, support PZ. Thank you.
This really is one of the dumbest flaps ever.
Posted by: ndt | July 10, 2008 7:33 PM
I, personally, wouldn't desecrate a consecrated host. If I found myself in possession of one, I would sell it on eBay. There are probably Satanists and others for whom such a desecration would be meaningful, and some of them have disposable income.
Posted by: maditude | July 10, 2008 7:34 PM
If the fools at Catholic League REALLY want to silence PZ, I humbly suggest that the best way to do so, would be to donate a big stinking pile of money to the Biology department at UM-Morris. PZ and the rest of those no-good-nik scientists will be busy for months buying spiffy new lab equipment and filling out paperwork, with precious little time to offend the pious, and for years thereafter, doing cutting edge research. And just think of the heartburn you'd give PZ: he'd feel obligated to be polite for a while (it's a midwestern thing), but it would just eat at him to no end.
Or I suppose they could just keep paying out hush-money to child-rape victims.
Posted by: melior | July 10, 2008 7:35 PM
Pringle's brand eucharist are less than 50% Jeebus.
Posted by: pazuzu | July 10, 2008 7:35 PM
Dear Alex, people fly aeroplanes into buildings for less. I reiterate: it was not just any
old cracker. You cannot just walk away with the flesh of our saviour,
where would that leave us? I ask. A fleshless saviour? Is that even remotely possible?
No, this is the end of tenure for our beloved PZ. Sorry.
Posted by: j (not J) | July 10, 2008 7:35 PM
October Maid,
I love your posts (and yer writin' ain't bad either), but I assume you are referring to J (the muslimphobe)
Patricia,
I was commenting on Mark Shea's rather flamboyant and petulant departure.
I would never demean your strumpery (?!!??) with an illegal use of "flounce".
And if I knew french, my voluptuous strumpet...ooh la lah!
Posted by: Patricia | July 10, 2008 7:36 PM
You will end up on TV with this one PZ. The death threat thing is going too far.
When I was still with the snake herders club our preacher thundered fire and brimstone against the pope for the wafer thing. All True Christians know that jeezuz ascended BODILY into heaven, therefore NO part of him remains on Earth. The wafers are idolatry = hell bound sin.
I intend to send Billy Boy a firmly worded letter on the subject. Pure "wine-curdling blasphemy." (Thanks Pierce)
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 7:36 PM
So there's:
- murder
- rape
- killing babies
- torture
- planetary destruction (except for a boat-full of people)
- blood sacrifice
- vicarious punishment
- vicarious redemption
- eternal suffering
...and now cannibalism.
Where do I sign up?
Posted by: William Bishop | July 10, 2008 7:38 PM
PZ,
Letter (appearing to be written by college educated person) is now in the US mail... to your University President. Keep up the great work as you soon realize how many fans and admirers you really have!
Posted by: Lou FCD | July 10, 2008 7:39 PM
My letter, just emailed:
Dear President Bruininks,
I wanted to drop you a quick note to let you know how important I find the words of Dr. Myers. His is a voice of rationality rising above an increasingly shrill cacophony of anti-intellectualism. The attempts by the religious to roll back the Enlightenment run rampant and roughshod over Science, the Constitution, reality, and reason.
I can think of no more appropriate example of the absolute inanity of religious retardation than the recent episode involving the Catholic League's frenzied and maniacal campaign against Dr. Myers because of his comments regarding their mystical crackers. In fact, even as a writer, I'm quite sure I could not have invented such an absurdity and maintained a suspension of disbelief in my readers. Nobody in his right mind would buy into such a ludicrous plot device. And yet, there it is, in real life; death threats to an esteemed Professor of Biology because he dared to point out the bizarreness of a physical altercation over a magic cracker.
These are truly strange times in which we live, when we can put people into space, decode the human genome, communicate nearly instantaneously with any point on the globe - and yet Dr. Myers is threatened with death for not showing proper deference to ancient superstition.
After all is said and done, we as a society need more PZ Myerses and fewer Popes, if we hope to fully emerge from the darkness of ignorance. It is my sincerest hope that you value Dr. Myers as much as I do.
With regards,
Posted by: A. Macrae | July 10, 2008 7:40 PM
An email, properly, if Britannically spelled has been sent, as follows.
Sir,
Forgive me for taking up your time.
I wish simply to add my support for P.Z. Myers in this silly business regarding a communion wafer.
By any objective measurement, a wafer remains a wafer, blessed or not.
That Mr. Donohue and others are entitled to their beliefs, however unscientific, is not at issue.
What is at issue is the right of others to question those beliefs and to point out where they are manifestly nonsensical.
American education has taken a serious beating in recent years, as seen from outside the US. (I write from the UK). There seems, among other problems, to be a reluctance- even a fear, to challenge superstition. America needs all the clear thinkers and dedicated educators it has left.
Myers is far too great an asset, both at home and internationally, for you to risk losing.
Sincerely,
Alastair D. Macrae, B.Sc. Hons (Glasgow 1978)
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 7:40 PM
where would that leave us? I ask. A fleshless saviour? Is that even remotely possible?
Parody? It's hard to tell, but I'm leaning towards the position that pazuzu is a parody troll.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 7:40 PM
"A fleshless saviour?"
Actually, boneless-skinless is healthier.
Posted by: michael | July 10, 2008 7:41 PM
I just sent an email to your president. I spell-checked it. Go, PZ! You rule!
Posted by: CJO | July 10, 2008 7:42 PM
Just a cracker? OMFG!
That's right, dipshit. It's just a cracker. OMFG.
Spare us your case of the vapors over it, mmmmmkay?
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | July 10, 2008 7:42 PM
Alex @ #338
Well, yes, I can see that's all attractive but remember, here on the side of science we could do all that too but from a secret moon base, or an evil vlocano lair. ...and we have sharks, with FRICKING LASER BEAMS. Tell me science isn't cooler huh?
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 7:42 PM
Parody trolling is really hard to do well, just because the real trolls have all the angles covered on stoopit. About the only one that I've ever seen that was consistently funny was MERKIN PATRIOT on Atrios.
Posted by: alec | July 10, 2008 7:43 PM
Dear PZ, you said "We need a counter-campaign from the secular community."
Can born-again Christians join in too?
We support your campaign to call magic crackers, completely crackers!
Right, because believing that saying a set of magic words over a cracker turns it into the literal flesh of a 2000-year-old Palestinian schizophrenic is so much crazier than believing that saying a set of magic words while squinting really hard forces the same 2000-year-old Palestinian schizophrenic to protect you from his father, who would otherwise punish you eternally because the mother and father of mankind ate an apple given to them by a snake 6000 years ago.
Posted by: j (not J) | July 10, 2008 7:44 PM
Wasn't Pazuzu the name of the demon in The Exorcist?
Posted by: Maragon | July 10, 2008 7:45 PM
Hey pazuzu,
Obvious troll is obvious.
Also, you REALLY need to look up the definition of 'tenure'.
To quote The Princess Bride;
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Posted by: alec | July 10, 2008 7:45 PM
Wasn't Pazuzu the name of the demon in The Exorcist?
Not to mention the gargoyle in that one episode of Futurama.
Posted by: Valeria | July 10, 2008 7:47 PM
My letter is on its way.
Posted by: ndt | July 10, 2008 7:47 PM
Several of the support letters posted have talked about the contributions PZ has made to science and rational thought and what a great guy he is all around. While important, and true, I think they omit the most salient point: PZ writes about religion on this blog, a blog which is not in any way connected with the University of Minnesota. Donahue is trying to get PZ fired based on something which isn't related to PZ's work and wasn't paid for or in any way supported by his employer.
Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2008 7:47 PM
"...with FRICKING LASER BEAMS."
I dunno. The laser beams or the cracker-flesh thing. It's a tough one. Do you still get to smite people?
Posted by: Bryan | July 10, 2008 7:48 PM
Just finished my email.
Unbelievable what extents the "tolerant" followers of a man who told people to foster peace and goodwill towards others will go to.
The irony is very thick.
Posted by: oriole | July 10, 2008 7:48 PM
Here's my email, PZ! I've just sent it off to President Bruininks.
Dear President Bruininks,
I am the Head of Mathematics and Natural Sciences at a private school in Zurich, Switzerland. I write to defend Professor Myers against the extraordinary hate campaign being waged against him by the incendiary Bill Donahue, who is the president of the radical group which calls itself the Catholic League.
Donohue's "Catholic League", which despite its name is a private group with no affililation with the Catholic Church, has attempted to destroy the careers of two employees of Senator John Edwards, pressured ABC into cancelling the Peabody-Award-winning series "Nothing Sacred" (created by Jesuit priest Bill Cain), and has also attacked, variously, the ACLU, Miller Brewing Company, Abercrombie & Fitch, the television programs "South Park" and "The View", actress Rosie O'Donnell, writer Christopher Hitchens, comedians Bill Maher and Kathy Griffin, singer Joan Osborne, director Kevin Smith, and numerous others, including, of late, Mr. Webster Cook, a college student who chose to walk out of a Catholic Church service with the communion wafer he was given, instead of eating it. Mr. Donohue has accused Mr. Cook of "taking [a] hostage", described his harmless action as "beyond hate speech", and has suggested that his university should consider expulsion.
Enter Professor Myers, distinguished faculty member of your university, who in his free time, explicitly without making any connection to your university, publishes Pharyngula, the world's most popular science blog, in which he exercises his First Amendment rights by criticising, among others, religious groups, specifically of late by noting the incredible hate campaign, including death threats, directed at Mr. Cook, the student whom Mr. Donohue attacks. To show his support for Cook, Professor Myers (again, on his private, non-university affiliated blog) has flippantly suggested that he (Myers) would be willing to publicly "treat [a wafer] with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse".
In a statement publiched on the Catholic League website, Mr. Donahue has disingenuously responded to Myers's blog entry by first trivialising his (Donahue's) vicious attack against Mr. Cook as simply "criticising the student", and then suggests that Myers's blog is part of the "content" of the university's website, since it can be accessed from that website - a silly argument, since the blog can of course be "accessed" from any computer and from any website, simply by typing "Pharyngula" in the search box - nor, as you know, does the university's home page offer any link to the blog. Donohue then accuses Myers, and hence the university (following his bizarre associational argument), of threatening to "desecrate the Body of Christ", and agitates his followers to mount a letter-writing campaign against Professor Myers, which has resulted not only in calls for his ouster but also numerous death threats from Donohue's excitable (and frequently excited) followers.
I am sure you will protect the academic freedom and the First Amendment rights of your faculty member against this attack by the radical Mr. Donahue, who is once again trying to aggrandize himself by adding another scalp to his belt.
Sincerely,... (yes, I signed it.)
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 10, 2008 7:48 PM
The goddess speaks (go for about 1:10).
Posted by: Cyberguy | July 10, 2008 7:49 PM
Email done.
Sir
I am writing in support of yourself and Professor P.Z. Myers against the hysterical over-reaction regarding a piece of communion wafer by certain Catholic pressure groups, in particular the Catholic League.
As well as being a excellent scientist and educator, Professor Meyers is a highly regarded social commentator, and his web log is one of the most-read on the internet. His critical focus on religion is extremely necessary, due to the anti-intellectual stance of many religious groups who seek to undermine the foundations of rationality itself. This particular incident is a case in point.
It would be a disaster if threats coming from a completely irrational mind-set was allowed to suppress a clear voice of reason. Arguments based on automatically demanded respect for a given belief-system, or on the degree of offence taken, should be given absolutely no weight.
I strongly urge your university to fully support Professor Myers in his important work, and to protect him from continuing attacks by those with a pre-enlightenment agenda.
Yours Sincerely,
(real name)
Posted by: pazuzu | July 10, 2008 7:50 PM
I am not a troll, just a sad observer of the decline of the american empire.
How are you supposed to fight people who actually believe that their saviour
can suffer from you actions against a cracker? Since I hold strongly that
there never was a person named Jesus (http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm)
I clearly have a hard time sympathizing with the view that a cracker is is flesh.
Unfortunately that will not save PZ at this time. His tenure is now forfeited. Sorry.
Posted by: steve8282 | July 10, 2008 7:50 PM
this may already have been stated but Dawkins has got behind this in a big way on his site as well.
Posted by: Patricia | July 10, 2008 7:51 PM
Ahhh j, bar tab loaded, grog & swill for you Mon deux. *wink*
Posted by: John McKay | July 10, 2008 7:52 PM
Dear President Bruininks,
This is just a short note to express my support for Dr. Paul Z. Myers and his right to free speech. I have been a reader of his blog Pharyngula from the very beginning. I have found his writing to be entertaining, informative, and provocative--sometimes all three at the same time. He is always very clear that what he writes on his blog is his opinion alone and not that of the University of Minnesota or of Seed magazine, the host of his blog.
Now, I see that Dr. Myers is under fire by William Donohue, a minor cable news personality who claims, without authority, to speak for all American Catholics. Manufactured outrage, intimidation, and calls for boycott (usually unsuccessful) are Mr. Donohue's stock and trade. Mr. Donohue is attempting bully the University of Minnesota into punishing or pressuring Dr. Myers into censoring his speech. To do so would be a grotesque violation of Dr. Myers academic freedom, personal freedom of speech, and an improper intrusion by the University into his extracurricular life.
On a more general level, giving in to Mr. Donohue would legitimize and encourage his brand of strong arm tactics to the detriment of our common political culture. I have confidence that you will not do that.
Thank you for your time,
John J. McKay
Posted by: BobC | July 10, 2008 7:53 PM
pazuzu, who the hell do you think are?
Posted by: Kel | July 10, 2008 7:53 PM
Those poor persecuted crackers... won't someone please think of the crackers!
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | July 10, 2008 7:54 PM
I think we could adapt the "fertility clinic" thought experiment:
"A fire breaks out at a Catholic Church. You can save either a child or a plate full of consecrated wafers, but not both. Which one do you choose to save?"
Posted by: Dahan | July 10, 2008 7:55 PM
Letter sent. Along with my wife, that's two more U of MN alums behind ya.
Posted by: Stephen Majewski | July 10, 2008 7:58 PM
Dear Professor Myers,
I urge you not to desecrate the Eucharist.
In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist, Catholics believe that the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.
Such a sacrilege would not only be deeply offensive to Catholics, but also to people of all faiths for such a blatant disrespect of a profoundly held religious belief.
Thank you for your consideration.
Posted by: Cracker Joe | July 10, 2008 7:58 PM
When I see Bill Donahue, I think that he had too may crackers!
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | July 10, 2008 7:59 PM
From Pazuzu:
Not even kittens?
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | July 10, 2008 8:01 PM
Pazuzu
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tenure
Just stop ok, if you're a parody, you're a bad one. If you're real, you're a twat.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 10, 2008 8:01 PM
You do realize that God himself calls athiests fools?
It's in the Bible...
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
And that's a convincing claim?
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 8:01 PM
I think we could adapt the "fertility clinic" thought experiment:
"A fire breaks out at a Catholic Church. You can save either a child or a plate full of consecrated wafers, but not both. Which one do you choose to save?"
What happens if the priest consecrates more wafers than can be consumed on a given date? Must the consecrated crackers be individually crucified, so as to avoid being tossed down the toilet without being saved when they go stale before the next mass?
Similar to what happens when more embryos are fertilized than can be implanted. They can be kept on ice for a long time but eventually the unimplanted embryos have to either be disposed of or used for research. And fertility treatments generally make a lot more embryos than are implanted.
Posted by: AJ | July 10, 2008 8:01 PM
I'll send mine tomorrow as it's getting late over here in Europe. Don't worry PZ - if religious bigots are angry at you, you know you are doing something right...
Posted by: Will Von Wizzlepig | July 10, 2008 8:04 PM
AS YOU WISH, COMMANDER!
/////sent via g-mail//////
Dear Mr. Bruininks,
I am writing to try to help counterbalance the flood of angry nonsense you must be receiving from many flustered people- to give you perspective in the issue that has just landed in your lap.
PZ Myers is a well appreciated and funny man, and his following online is not small. I don't take time out of my work day to write this kind of message for just anybody. While this media circus may put pressure on you to take action against Dr. Myers, please add my voice to the "oh, nonsense." list- apparently freedom of speech is not well appreciated by some.
Thank you for your time,
-Will
Posted by: chgo_liz | July 10, 2008 8:04 PM
@365:
Sadly, many of those yahoos (Swift reference) would save the crackers. Unless they particularly fancied the child.
Posted by: John | July 10, 2008 8:05 PM
Maybe it really is the body and blood of Christ. If you want to partake, shouldn't you be able to get take-out?
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 10, 2008 8:05 PM
Mr Majewski, you obviously don't know me at all well. You have just convinced me that I must commit sacrilege, since I oppose the whole nonsensical notion of a "profoundly held religious belief".Posted by: DoctorE | July 10, 2008 8:05 PM
Christians are so angry because they think big daddy will take his anger for you out on them.
The bible is full of stuff where god totally goes berserk and kills everyone, innocent babies.. fargin everyone.
Thats why christians get so pissed, they are scared of the big tyrant in the sky, that he will kill them for something they did not do.
What baffles me the most is why on earth anyone would want to live with that madgod in the sky, hell is probably heaven compared to heaven. ohh.. well shrug
Posted by: Zeno | July 10, 2008 8:05 PM
My letter is written on paper and is sitting in a small metal box with a raised red plastic flag on it. A woman will come by later in the afternoon, take it out of the metal box, lower the red plastic flag, and drive away with it in a little vehicle, after which I will probably never see the letter again. But President Bruininks will.
I hope the lady with the little truck doesn't desecrate my letter. It is sacred to me. (The letter, not the little truck.)
Posted by: craig | July 10, 2008 8:05 PM
Desecrate the Eucharist... man, I just don't understand that, but then I never was any good at playing cards.
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 8:06 PM
Stephen Majewski at 7:58 pm
That's actually not a bad letter, Stephen. Too bad Donohue and his followers had to resort to crazy threats.
Posted by: MikeM | July 10, 2008 8:08 PM
I'm going to make a suggestion here that I hope people pay attention to.
The letters I've seen have been heart-felt and sincere, and strongly support PZ's position. I'm down with that.
And for those who've noticed that I can be vebose at times, this may strike you as coming from the wrong source, but I'll say it anyway:
You're making your letters too long!
Mine was 2-3 sentences long. All you really need to say is that this is a ridiculous campaign, and you support PZ. That's about it.
Seriously, think it over, people.
I sent a CC of mine to PZ. Sorry, but I'm not going to reveal my actual name here. Not going to happen.
Posted by: Rev. Dr. Jim Roche | July 10, 2008 8:09 PM
Let some rationality survive here. Its a cracker. Period. Are we to also protect Zeus? Religion is personal, keep it that way. Good luck, sent my support letter.
Rev Dr. Jim Roche
Posted by: OHNHAI | July 10, 2008 8:10 PM
just sent this. hope it helps
-----------------------------------------
Dear Sir,
I have been following over the last day or two what in other realities would be an amusing comedy sketch regarding the 'hostage taking of a communion wafer'. Today however I have learned that a particular presenter (Bill Donohue) has initiated a campaign to have your esteemed employee (PZ Myers) ousted from his employment. In light of this I write to you to lend my voice in favour of PZ Myers.
I do not wish to belittle anyone's religious beliefs, but the hysteria we have seen over this is so disproportionally off the chart you would normally associate this level of reaction with the more radical friends of the prophet. According to his blog, PZ Myers has even received death threats. Even one calling for his dismissal, and death, then in the same breath extolling the virtues of the meek, mild and so blatantly persecuted Christians.
After all if you were to truly believe the 'miracle' of the Eucharist then the Christians, so offended by this theft of a wafer, are really complaining that the fellow in question refused to participate in sanctioned ritualised cannibalism and then had the gall to run off with the sacrificial victim... In this light PZ Myers' commentary seems commendable even.
All PZ Myers has done was voice an opinion over the blatant absurdity of this story. I urge you not bow to the pressure of crazed hysteria. PZ Myers is a good writer and a voice of educated reason in a sea of crazy. As he has remained employed for so long I can only assume that he is fairly good at his job too, it would be a shame for him to be punished for his not unreasonable opinion.
Yours in support of PZ
Stephen J Rushbrook
Posted by: Craig Holman | July 10, 2008 8:11 PM
I'm honored to be able to lend my support to PZ Myers.
I'm sending the following letter to Dr. Bruininks tomorrow morning.
______________
Greetings,
I write to you in support of Dr. P.Z. Myers, a man who I have come to admire greatly.
We live amidst people who still are, in large part, deeply superstitious and irrational, preferring their delusions to the real world. Not being content to ruin their own lives and those of their children, these 'people of God' seek to bring the rest of us down with them.
Dr. Myers has taken a stand against ignorance and superstition and has chosen to fight the scourge of religious belief that plagues mankind. A man of principle, reason, and love for humanity could do no less. He is a light in the gathering darkness.
He is an excellent educator and a good man. You should be very proud to have him affiliated with your school.
With warm regards,
Craig S. Holman, Ph.D.
Posted by: Zeno | July 10, 2008 8:16 PM
I, too, wrote a long letter, mainly to establish that I knew the situation involving Webster Cook, Bill Donohue, and PZ Myers. When I did constituent services for a state legislator in California, we often got short letters in mass-mailing campaigns that said little more than "I support X" or "I oppose X". Those letters got little weight because they showed no sign that the letter-writer had done more than sign a form letter. The longer, more personal letters had more impact.
The last paragraph of my letter, however, makes my point very specifically and alludes to my inner nastiness (or perhaps to PZ's):
Posted by: Jonathan | July 10, 2008 8:16 PM
via snail-mail:
Dear President Bruininks:
As I'm sure you've already been inundated with mail about the Communion-wafer comments made by Professor PZ Myers, I'll spare you the details of the incident. Suffice it to say that I am writing to voice my support to Professor Myers.
While nearly all of my knowledge of Prof. Myers work comes from the posts on his blog, it is through that lens that I can see that his passion for researching and teaching science is rivaled only by his passion for freely expressing his views in spite of his detractors (who have, I'm sure, made themselves well-known to you by now). What Myers did, in this instance, was to write about the essence of a thing - just as one might write about a fetus in an article concerning abortion - and to characterize the extreme reactions of others to a perceived slight against that thing. And just as you would support Myers for freely expressing his views on abortion (whatever those might be), you must stand by him now.
Best,
[Me]
Posted by: Mark B | July 10, 2008 8:17 PM
You're making your letters too long!
Mine was 2-3 sentences long.
I'm making a note on the outside of the envelope that says "In support of Dr. PZ Myers". That way, even if they don't get to open it for a while, at least they can see my position of support. I would assume that if you are corresponding by email, it would be good to make your postion clear in the subject line.
I plan to make my letter pithy, but I haven't seen any problems with any of the letters I've seen here so far. Every one has been eloquent and well written. As long as your support is clearly stated in the first paragraph and repeated in the closing, the reader will get the idea. Honestly, I doubt they will read much of what goes between, anyways.
Posted by: keafan | July 10, 2008 8:19 PM
Message sent to the Prez.
Will forward a copy to you.
Christians are so loving when they think they can convert you. Point out an absurdity though, and they want to kill you.
Did they forget the admonition of the Jesus character to "turn the other cheek"?
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | July 10, 2008 8:19 PM
I am writing in support of Dr. Myers. His defense of reason and rational thought must be encouraged. Please resist the agents of intolerance who are almost certainly trying to silence people like him (and me, to a lesser degree).
Sincerely,
Posted by: protocol | July 10, 2008 8:19 PM
Written. Will be sent by snail mail tomorrow...I kept it short
Posted by: Dylan | July 10, 2008 8:20 PM
My e-mail has been sent. I kept it to a few sentences. Basically, to sum up: You are a university, which is supposed to be founded on things like facts and reason. Dr. Myers is speaking out in favor of facts and reason against myth and superstition. It should be pretty obvious which side the university should come down on.
Keep it up, PZ. I knew the minute I read that cracker post that it was going to start a shitstorm, but you've outdone yourself. And you're way funnier than the religious nuts.
Posted by: U of M student | July 10, 2008 8:20 PM
Seriously, I doubt Bruininks is going to give a flying fuck one way or the other about the cracker or ensuing debate/outrage/nonsense. All you're going to do is fill up his email box and piss off the office workers who actually have to read it. The people who are really feeling the brunt of your efforts can't do anything about the situation and will just resent you (and the Catholics) for creating a ton of work. Bruininks won't take sides anyway; it's a freedom of speech issue.
If you really want to do something about it, donate money to some cause that works against religious intolerance.
Posted by: Ann R. Key |