Pharyngula

I'M EATING JESUS RIGHT NOW

Posted by: Rebecca Watson | July 11, 2008 12:24 PM

I'd just like to apologize for my previous comment. I called my local church and they explained that Chex Mix does NOT count as Jesus. So, never mind.

Posted by: Rebecca Watson | July 11, 2008 12:26 PM

Andrew Sullivan's remark copied here, since, unless I am mistaken, he doesn't allow comments on his blog:

It is one thing to engage in free, if disrespectful, debate. It is another to repeatedly assault and ridicule and abuse something that is deeply sacred to a great many people. Calling the Holy Eucharist a "goddamned cracker" isn't about free speech; it's really about some baseline civility. Myers' rant is the rant of an anti-Catholic bigot. And atheists and agnostics can be bigots too.

Engaging loudly and publicly in the victimless crime of blaspheme is not bigotry, it's a responsibility. Andrew Sullivan conveniently avoids explaining how ridiculing the beliefs and the icons of all religions makes one a bigot towards those who practice a specific religion. I suspect trawling through Sullivan's posts over the last few years would make it much easier to make the case that Sullivan is an anti-Muslim bigot, but I haven't got the stomach for it.

Posted by: Ken Cope | July 11, 2008 12:28 PM

Has anyone pointed out that it's just a fuckin' cracker yet? I think we need to keep that in mind.

Posted by: IasonOuabache | July 11, 2008 12:31 PM

For what it's worth, here's what I sent off to President Bruininks this morning. (I started off saying I'd be brief and then waffled on for a bit so I lost points on that I'm afraid.

"Dear President Bruininks,

I'll keep this brief and to the point as I'm sure you currently have more than enough verbose mail to deal with: I have just learned that there is a campaign underway to oust Professor Myers from his position at the university. I am appalled that he should be so ill-treated and I am very keen to add my name to the list of people that I'm sure will have rushed to come out in his support.

I find I can hardly overstate the value that Pharyngula has to me and to a great many other people as well. I read the article that has so offended the Catholic community, when it was first posted, and found it to be typically intelligent, amusing and well observed and am utterly horrified at the idea that the Professor could be harmed in any way as a result of it.

Professor Myers is a great ambassador for your institution and you should be deeply proud to count him among your staff. He does you great credit. Please do not allow this backlash to erode our precious values of freedom of speech and freedom of thought. I fear greatly for a world that punishes its stars for shining too brightly and I fear greatly for a world that fights against open and honest discussion. That is the path to intellectual and moral bankruptcy and a nightmarish future.

Thank you for your time. I trust this message is just one among a very many in strong support of Professor Myers. It's a great shame that something so noble should result in such unnecessary difficulty but I hope that it is as obvious to you as it is to me that the person responsible for this problem is not the Professor.

Yours Faithfully,

David (last name deleted)"

Posted by: David_James | July 11, 2008 12:32 PM

Good morning President Bruininks -

PZ Meyers, an associate professor on the Morris campus, has recently inflamed Catholics with his most recent, curse filled, hateful blog entry criticism of their religion, practices, and beliefs. He has come under attack from many Catholics for this recent posting on his blog Pharyngula, and he has posted your email address so regular readers like myself can email you our opinions of his activities.

His hope is that supporters will flood your email with well reasoned defenses of his writings and activities. I write to share that I find his approach to criticism to embody everything that is wrong and divisive about supposed intellectual superiority. I'm quite certain you've been alerted to the profane, attacking nature of his blog entries in the past. Rather than open up lines of discussion for parties who disagree to engage one another respectfully, he coarsely targets groups and individuals for attack and rallies like minded posters to dehumanize those with different views and practices in the most vile writing style possible.

As a professor for the University of MN, one would expect a higher degree of tolerance from Professor Meyers for groups to which he does not belong and clearly does not understand. My wife both attended the University of MN Morris and worked in your office for a few years in your last assignment prior to taking the Presidency of the University. Her view of campus policy is that such behavior from a student, group, or professor would never be tolerated if it targeted minority groups. Professor Myers tends to target majority groups, and it seems that his constant, malicious attacks go unchecked and unaddressed. Surely a man of such hate and bitterness does not compartmentalize these views and feelings when he enters a classroom or has interaction with students. Is this representative of the open-minded pursuit-of-truth-and-conflicting-ideas environment that the University wishes to cultivate?

All the Best
Darren Libscomb

Posted by: Civil to Others | July 11, 2008 12:33 PM

Save the Body of Christ from the Cannibals!!

Posted by: paximperium | July 11, 2008 12:33 PM

I have just returned from the Post Office after sending a letter of support for PZ. Via air mail, after waiting thirty-five minutes in a queue whilst I was both boiling hot and missing Deal or No Deal.

This fact alone, that the letter has been halfway around the world (from the UK to USA), means the President should take everything I say in that letter to be the word of God. (No pun intended.)

To PZ, I advise you to hand the death threats to the police. Also, there probably really are people who now think you're more evil than Hitler, so my other piece of advice is to take care for your own safety.

Posted by: Jonathan Rothwell | July 11, 2008 12:34 PM

Has anyone pointed out that it's just a fuckin' cracker yet? I think we need to keep that in mind.

No, it's the magic flesh of a supernatural being, sliced wafer-thin, and if you don't eat it, you don't get to go to heaven.

Oh, and if you take it but don't eat it, you're kidnapping Jesus and we'll have to hurt you.

Posted by: Ken Cope | July 11, 2008 12:35 PM

Let's get this straight. For years, Catholic priests around the world molest little boys, and all we hear from Big Bad Bill is the sound of crickets chirping.

But sneak a host out of Mass and it's akin to seeing the world's rivers flow with blood.

Catholics believe that the host, once consecrated, is literally the flesh of Christ. So yeah, OK, I can see why some of them might find it offensive that someone would refer to the host as a "cracker."

But to call it a hate crime? To try and deny that person a living because of what they said on their own blog?

The Catholic League is offended. Fine. Duly noted. But by living in a society where we revere freedom of speech, being offended is one of the chances you take. The hyperventilating throngs at The Catholic League need to get the hell over it.

Posted by: Devin Rambo | July 11, 2008 12:36 PM

BobC #3

"Anyone who believes there's a magical sky fairy hiding in the clouds has got to have something very wrong with him."

It's a bit of an over simplification to think that god hides in the clouds. You see, god is full of much more trickeriness that that. He exists everywhere but can't be seen. He can make anything happen he wants to, even make us blind to him but not his works. He can even make it seem that everything has a Natural explanation and the need to explain things in human terms using mystery and magic is insane.

Therefore, god exists.

/sarcasm

Posted by: Alex | July 11, 2008 12:38 PM

Done. I even through in the fact of my own Catholicism for good measure.

Posted by: cm | July 11, 2008 12:40 PM

Wow, FOUR threads? And two topping 1000? That's incredible, man!

Posted by: Wing Nut | July 11, 2008 12:40 PM

No, it's the magic flesh of a supernatural being, sliced wafer-thin, and if you don't eat it, you don't get to go to heaven.

ah ha!

So it's like Jesus Carpaccio!

Damn, I love me a well prepared carpaccio. This one comes with a squeeze of fresh sacrilege.

Mmmmmmmmmmm

sacrilege.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbCHimp | July 11, 2008 12:41 PM

Andrew Sullivan gets a little over excited at times, but I believe he is one of the good guys. Sadly, his online debate with Sam Harris showed him to be incapable of recognizing the irrationality of faith and the danger it poses to the modern world.

As an openly gay republican, he has known some measure of persecution, so it is dissappointing that his own tolerance will not extend to atheists exercising their freedom of speech. Oh well, I'm sure that some of his best friends are atheists.

Posted by: kmurray | July 11, 2008 12:41 PM

Ack. The response page I got said the site was busy and to resubmit. My apologies for the repeated posts.

Posted by: Devin Rambo | July 11, 2008 12:42 PM

Here's my email to the president of the university. I hope it helps.

Dear President Bruininks;

I'm writing in absolute support of Dr. Myers not because I share his views regarding religion, but because I believe in the First Amendment to the Constitution and the principle of academic freedom. He is an important voice against the malign efforts of those who want to inject religious dogma into the teaching of biological science under the guise of "intelligent design". Even if I am right and he is wrong regarding the nature of a Communion wafer after it has been consecrated, I feel quite confident that the creator of the universe doesn't need any defense from screaming hate-mongers claiming the name of the Church as their authority.

Sincerely,

Diana Powe
Beaverton, Oregon

Posted by: Diana Powe | July 11, 2008 12:43 PM

Yet more missing the point...

I guess pluralism means its ok to be pluralistic as long as everyone agrees with me. I agree Donohue goes overboard, but what is wrong with letting someone hold something sacred?

Nothing. It's the insistence that everyone also hold it sacred because you do that is the problem.

obviously, death threats are way out of line from the defenders of Donohue's position,

Keep in mind it is the death threats and attempts to force their view on others that this action is in response to.

but I also think asking folks to palm and steal something others consider sacred to be over the line.

Strange sense of priorities. Not eating a cracker given to you (not stolen) is an inappropriate response to death threats. Really.

Posted by: tsg | July 11, 2008 12:46 PM

(A possibly stupid question - I haven't read every post in the previous threads:)

Aren't all these many letters to the President of the university a bit of an overreaction?

I mean, shouldn't we expect the university to dismiss Donohue's silly complaint any way??

Posted by: FW | July 11, 2008 12:47 PM

Christ died for your sins.
Christ died for your sins.
Christ died for your sins.
Christ died for your sins.

After 9 years of Catholic grammar school (including kindergarten) I will never get that out of my mind. Imagine having the same five words drilled into you several times a day for 9 years. It's child abuse and that's why I think nuns are assholes.

Posted by: BobC | July 11, 2008 12:49 PM

@ #23
the kid who kicked this whole thing off was a douchebag for stealing the cracker

Seriously? From one of the articles about all this:

"When I received the Eucharist, my intention was to bring it back to my seat to show him," Cook said. "I took about three steps from the woman distributing the Eucharist and someone grabbed the inside of my elbow and blocked the path in front of me. At that point I put it in my mouth so they'd leave me alone and I went back to my seat and I removed it from my mouth."

A church leader was watching, confronted Cook and tried to recover the sacred bread. Cook said she crossed the line and that's why he brought it home with him.

"She came up behind me, grabbed my wrist with her right hand, with her left hand grabbed my fingers and was trying to pry them open to get the Eucharist out of my hand," Cook said, adding she wouldn't immediately take her hands off him despite several requests.

PZ's not the only person here who needs defending. The church attacked Cook before PZ ever said a thing.

Posted by: unicow | July 11, 2008 12:50 PM

@12
"professor would never be tolerated if it targeted minority groups. Professor Myers tends to target majority groups"
What? Minorities? Catholics... I think it's fair to say that PZ "targets" (I don't think he's targeting anyone, actually) irrational people, not minorities.

Posted by: jj | July 11, 2008 12:52 PM

My apologies to Alexander Pope and real poets elsewhere:

When dire Offence from an Abused Triscuit springs,
And unleashes Bill Donohue's bellicose whinges,
This Verse--in support of Myers--is due,
This ev'n the Cath'lic League may vouchsafe to view.
Slight is the Subject, but not so the Storm that breweth,
For the Case of the Maligned Wafer has brought threats of death.
At such absurdity, Paul Myers raises his voice in protest thus:
"Should theft of one give such offense, then steal
one thousand, that we learn what they would do to us!"
This brings us to the point at present,
Wherein Bill Donohue demands both Discipline and Punishment.
I say instead that Paul Myers is well within his Right
To criticize and mock th' ignorant hypocrisy within his sight.
'Tis the legacy of th' Enlightenment and an assuredly Secular Democracy:
That Free Discussion and Open Debate safeguard a Free Society.
Ideas and customs should not be held Unquestionably Virtuous
Simply for being th' Opinions of Mobs Religious.
Sic semper tyrannis, Slavery, Creationism, Discrimination,
Thus also the Complaint of Donohue must be selected for Elimination.

This was sent by overland mail this morning to President Bruininks, Dr. Myers, and Dr. Donohue.

Posted by: Mark | July 11, 2008 12:53 PM

If these crazy catholics are so certain that one cracker is somehow different after their magic ceremony, why don't we ask them to pick out the fleshy one from a pile of them?
Double blind tested of course.

Posted by: ElJay | July 11, 2008 12:53 PM

Here is the main body of my letter, which I will be popping in the post in a moment. My boyfriend, an English prof, will also be penning a letter regarding academic free speech. Cheers to you, PZ:

I am writing on behalf of Professor P. Z. Myers regarding this Eucharist incident. I am an atheist and the fact is that Myers is a much-loved and well-respected member of our community. Many of us feel invisible, ignored, and downright hated. Lately, we've been gathering a little steam in the area of activism--sometimes it's writing letters, supporting lobbyists on our behalf, or it comes in the form of lawsuits--as we beg for, haggle for, and demand our equal and civil rights as American citizens. The activism takes other forms as well, forms well documented in any social movement for change. While Myers's suggestion to desecrate a Communion wafer might seem college-prankish, the fact is that it fits in with a number of attention getting stunts for respectable causes. All sorts of activists perform various antics to demand rights for blacks, women, gays, etc. This isn't anything new and whether one agrees with its effectiveness, it's a tactic I fully support so long as no one is hurt. This, I'm afraid, doesn't include the hurting of one's feelings.

Considering the tremendous amount of prejudice and general disdain coming from the Catholic community directed towards atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers, this threat to desecrate what we all know is basically a cracker (there is no need to test these wafers following the blessing that supposedly transforms them into the magical flesh of their consumer's Lord and Savior...it's a flaky, crispy cracker), the idea that what Myers did is beyond the pale is laughable. He may have incited the ire of one large group, but he's also gained even more respect and support from another, the secular community. We don't all agree, but mine is a voice that is absolutely raised in support. Please don't allow your University to be bullied by the likes of the Catholic League's Bill Donohue. Yes, he's loud, insistent, and becomes rabidly red-in-the-face at the slightest hint criticism, but he remains a bully and only that.

We without faith take a lot of flack and have few out there with enough courage and intellect to defend us, whereas most major religions have armies. Please consider Myers a much-needed representative of a movement in desperate need of change and do what you can to ensure his position (in light of demands for his removal) and his safety (in light of the death threats he's received).

Posted by: IsThatLatin | July 11, 2008 12:54 PM

How much could you get for the body of christ on e-bay? We should kidnap several this weekend and put up for sale next week. Although, it would be hard to prove that had been blessed by a priest instead of just taking them out of box. I'm sure the catholic church has "Essence" detectors for these types of emergencies.

Posted by: rd | July 11, 2008 12:57 PM

I should have been here all along. I'm an atheist, my parents were both raised devout Roman Catholic and left the church as soon as they reached adulthood. They raised me as a free thinker, although in an extended family of three generations comprising roughly 24 others, the three of us are the only three apostates. I'm the only unababashed, unapologetic, and unrepentant atheist. (it's funny to think they call me unrepentent...who would an atheist repent to?)

And my cousin Mary (there is at least one Mary in three generations of our family, and in my town it dominates over other first names for women at least 1 in six) came to call on me. I said I felt like the red-headed bastard stepchild because I was the only atheist. Well then somehow she starts asking me why...

...so I answered...

and the memorable moment came when Mary, with that perennial smile on her face because she knows God or the virgin mother or Jesus or the Pope - I really don't understand who they worship - had her back: "Do you really think that scientists know why the sun stays up in ths sky?"

Now - where do you go from there but apart?

And I told her that I think the Catholic faith is a joke, but then I don't go run to a Catholic church when I need answers; She on the other hand thinks science is a joke, but has somehow accepted that it's still OK to drive around in cars, have electricity in her house, talk on a cell phone, and go to a doctor and receive modern medical treatments when she gets sick. "G"od apparently has little difficulty with hypocrisy, in fact his faithful seem to be silently commanded to be immune from criticism for it.

I think we need to start being as militant as they like to label us - if anyone religious really thinks that science is a fraud and scientists are evil, then we can watch them stand in the public square and dutifully disavow all articles in their posession that required a scientist, an engineer, or any other satanic free thinker to make or support it.

I mean all I have to do is look at the book of Leviticus to imimediately cry shenanigans on the Bible - there are two dozen or more situations where a faithful believer is supposed to run to a priest to be washed if they are caught doing. And despite all that washing, there's not a single chemical formula or even a family recipe for soap anywhere in the new or old testament. We had to wait until the eighteenth century until Louis Pasteur formulated the germ theory of disease, and we had to wait until almost another hundred years until Joseph Lister came up with the first primitive but relatively effective soap that made any of that washing do any good.

I'm tired of tolerating people who have no tolerance for us - that's bad enough. Although I'm grateful that people like you and me are no longer burned at the stake, I still don't think it's tolerable that these hypcrites had to create the United States of America in order to have freedom of religion, only to struggle all the while to deny freedom of thought to anyone who wasn't religious in the same way they were.

I want my own blog. Screw that, I want my own radio show. In ten minutes I will make Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage and Ann Coulter look like Mr Rogers meets Dr. Phil. Enough with the hypocrisy already. If they really think the Bible has all the answers, then leave them out in the desert with no clothes on, a Bible and a quart of water and let them show us where all those answers are.

/rant

Thank you for allowing me this forum. I'll wait on your gracious provision of a microphone so that I can get started making a living being this indignant.

Posted by: I'm joining your Crusade | July 11, 2008 12:58 PM

"I think we need to start being as militant as they like to label us - if anyone religious really thinks that science is a fraud and scientists are evil, then we can watch them stand in the public square and dutifully disavow all articles in their posession that required a scientist, an engineer, or any other satanic free thinker to make or support it."

Well said.

Posted by: gdlchmst | July 11, 2008 1:04 PM

So, trying to educate brainwashed idiots is now called "targeting a minority?"

Clearly, the author of post #12 is unblemished by numeracy.

Posted by: Ken Cope | July 11, 2008 1:05 PM

....you toucha my wahfur -- I KILL YOU DEAD!!!

Posted by: Alex

I'm gonna cutcha.

I'm gonna cutcha so bad, you're gonna wish I didn't cutcha so bad.

Posted by: Capital Dan | July 11, 2008 1:06 PM

"Are you threatening me?"
- Beavis

Posted by: Alex | July 11, 2008 1:07 PM

It's a bit of an over simplification to think that god hides in the clouds. You see, god is full of much more trickeriness that that. He exists everywhere but can't be seen.

When I was a little boy I knew that Jesus lived in our bathroom. Every morning my father would beat on the bathroom door and yell "Christ, are you still in there?"

Posted by: JoJo | July 11, 2008 1:08 PM

A diamond is just a rock. Short of its practical uses in engineering etc, its value is largely a matter of misguided stupidity and tradition. It's just a rock.

Just throwing it out there.

Posted by: AndyD | July 11, 2008 1:09 PM

"How can someone not believe in evolution and still get vaccinations?"

If they can rationalize sending death threats because someone thinks a cracker is only a cracker, then it's easy.

Posted by: Alex | July 11, 2008 1:10 PM

I'm reminded of George Carlin's line: God is the all-powerful, all-knowing Supreme Being who created everything in the universe, and if you don't do what he wants he'll torture you for eternity. Why? Because he loves you!

Posted by: Son of Strom | July 11, 2008 1:11 PM

"Catholics believe that the host, once consecrated, is literally the flesh of Christ."

So, it would seem that this could be proven or unproven with a simple DNA test on the wafer, once consecrated.

Posted by: infidel57 | July 11, 2008 1:12 PM

@43:

One can criticize without insulting

Ok, let's give that a go:

The notion that a particular cracker, when spoken to by a man dressed in flowing robes, physically becomes the flesh of another man who, if he existed at all, died almost 2000 years ago, is so ridiculous as to be almost beyond words. Those who believe this to be true are deluded, in the same way that people who believe that Elvis is alive are deluded. Moreover, the notion that removing a cracker, which has been freely given, from a certain building and doing whatever one wants with that cracker, is deserving of death threats, is more than ridiculous; it is batshit crazy stupid, not to mention scary and blatantly illegal.

Posted by: Mike | July 11, 2008 1:12 PM

#12 is basically deception from start to finish.

But then, anyone who can't tell the difference between threats to a persons life and lively-hood, and the criticism of ideas, is hardly likely to be morally grounded, are they?

Posted by: Damian | July 11, 2008 1:13 PM

"Impossible. They can't give back their vaccinations."

We'll let that one slide. But they won't be getting any of our universal health care.

Posted by: gdlchmst | July 11, 2008 1:14 PM