…and this is a 
<rolls eyes> It's a cracker, people
Category: Kooks
Posted on: July 20, 2008 1:34 PM, by PZ Myers
Good grief, but this is tedious. I'm still getting piles of email every day from people 1) begging me not to abuse a cracker because it is so sacred to them, piles of email telling me to 2) abuse a book because it is so sacred to Muslims (I've even been sent two copies of the Koran!), and of course, the 3) bizarre complaint that I'm a coward, afraid to commit sacrilege. You can all stop now. 1) Your personal sense of the sacred in a piece of bread dough is absurd to me and imposes on me no sense of obligation. 2) Since I now own one entirely superfluous copy of the Koran, it will meet the very same fate as the crackers. Thanks to all who have demanded that I treat that silly book with disrespect, I'll have to treat both equally. 3) I have not rushed to be rude to a cracker because, well, it's there, it's ridiculous, and it's not very important. I've been traveling, and I've come home to writing deadlines, and those get first priority. Heck, going into the kitchen right now and fixing myself a sandwich for lunch has higher priority. After I've cleared the deck of my work this week, then I might take a moment to casually demolish a sacred cow.
Now enough. You can all stop dunning me. Be patient, godless ones, and surrender to despair, O Ye Believers. And if this turns into another thousand comment thread, I shall be very, very cranky.
Look. This is the kind of crap I'm getting all the time, and I'm getting a little tired of it. Gary Silis of Australia, IP address 60.229.16.24, you are a freaking moron. Do you even see any of the the logical flaws in listing people who denied your inane, petty god who have also died?
All you god-walloping, jebus-lovin', spamming fools for christ are convincing me of nothing other than that people can be really, really stupid. You are not advancing your cause. You are making your whole faith look like a special ed class for people with dingleberries for brains.
I'd suggest that you not write to me unless you've got something intelligent to say, but Gary Silis probably thinks he's made a brilliant, ingenious, knock-dead argument instead of the exercise in insipidity that this is:
DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?
I SURE DIDNT TILL NOW
Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!
Make a personal reflection about this.....
Very interesting, read until the end.....
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):
'Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
for whatsoever a man sow,
that shall he also reap.
Here are some men and women
who mocked God :
ohn Lennon (Singer):
Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:
'Christianity will end, it will disappear.
I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.
Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him' (1966).
Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.
Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.
Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died
Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):
Durng A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ),
while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said:'God, that's for you.'
He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.
The man who built the Titanic
After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.
With an ironic tone he said:
'Not even God can sink it'
The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic
Marilyn Monroe (Actress)
She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.
He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:
'I don't need your Jesus'.
A week later, she was found dead in her apartment
Bon Scott (Singer)
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
'Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell'.
On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.
Campinas (IN 2005)
In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....
The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:
'My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.'
She responded: 'Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full '
Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died,
the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.
The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken
Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.
In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.
Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.
Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.
'Jesus'
PS: If it was a joke, you would have sent it to everyone.
So are you going to have courage to send this?.
I have done my part, Jesus said
'If you are embarrassed about me,
I will also be embarrassed about you before my father.'
You are my 8 in 8 seconds. I am not breaking this. No way!
I'M TOLD THIS WORKS!!!!! Bishop T.D. Jakes '8 Second Prayer.' Just repeat this prayer and see how God moves!!
'Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen.'
Pass this message to 8 people {EXCEPT YOU AND ME}.You will receive a miracle tomorrow. I Hope that you don't ignore and
let God bless you.
Great ghu, but you mindless Christian fanatics sure are inane. Now stop. Seriously. Your "I'll pray for you and hope you burn in hell" notes are accomplishing nothing but the further hardening of my black, shriveled heart. I'm becoming convinced that Satan has eaten out your brains.
Comments
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 1:38 PM
Heck, going into the kitchen right now and fixing myself a sandwich for lunch has higher priority. After I've cleared the deck of my work this week, then I might take a moment to casually demolish a sacred cow.
Have one in your sandwich!
Posted by: Otto | July 20, 2008 1:39 PM
PZ
"fixing myself a sandwich for lunch"
How about a cracker with ham?
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 20, 2008 1:40 PM
The one thing that is completely off the table is eating one, or feeding it to any other animal. Some have been in people's mouths, at least one is several years old, and I've received threats from Catholics to send me unconsecrated crackers that have been poisoned.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 20, 2008 1:42 PM
You think the Magic-Baked-Goods worshippers were bad? Just wait until the Bagged-Magic-Beans worshippers get going...
Posted by: spurge | July 20, 2008 1:42 PM
A cracker with ham using the Koran as a plate!
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 1:43 PM
I meant, have a cow in your sandwich.
I wouldn't eat 'em either. They'd all end up with the superfluous Q'uran (yes I have one already, right next to a Bible, a Tao Te Ching, and Why I am Not a Christian) in the garbage, and/or recycling bin.
Posted by: Ken Cope | July 20, 2008 1:45 PM
Be sure and give it an Irish Wake before its burial, preferably with lots of braying.
Of course you're not going to eat the damned thing--any self-respecting trophy wifeTM would throw you out of bed for eating crackers.
Posted by: N | July 20, 2008 1:45 PM
"2) Since I now own one entirely superfluous copy of the Koran, it will meet the very same fate as the crackers. Thanks to all who have demanded that I treat that silly book with disrespect, I'll have to treat both equally."
LOL, you've opened up a whole new can of worms with this one.
Keep at 'em PZ! We need more people like you in this world.
Posted by: Diego | July 20, 2008 1:45 PM
MAJeff, why ruin a perfectly good sandwich? Why mix in a stale, tasteless wafer, even one with amazing transformative properties allowing for metaphysical cannibalism? That's one yuck for the real world properties and another yuck for the fanciful religious properties.
Posted by: spurge | July 20, 2008 1:46 PM
If you end up with some extra Korans you could sell them on ebay and give the money to a secular charity.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 20, 2008 1:46 PM
"and I've received threats from Catholics to send me unconsecrated crackers that have been poisoned."
So if you DID get them consecrated, would that be like poisoning Jesus? Maybe that's the trick to defeating him.
And considering how vengeful their god apparently is, he'll pour a whole cup of wrath all over whoever did the poisoning, as well. He's got an itchy trigger finger, that guy.
Posted by: greg laden | July 20, 2008 1:48 PM
Heck, going into the kitchen right now and fixing myself a sandwich for lunch has higher priority.
You do realize, of course that you could combine the two. Ask your spouse or daughter about that .. females are pretty good at multitasking.
Posted by: Zeno | July 20, 2008 1:48 PM
Lucite. Verily and truly I say unto you: Lucite. Embed the Koran, embellished with a communion wafer, in a block of Lucite. The result is a useful doorstop or heavy-duty paperweight and (this is the best part!) preserves the ever-so-holy sacred stuff in an inert block. It's like a reliquary! Of course it's not encrusted with gems and festooned with gold leaf like a proper Catholic one, but it's way more efficient and cheaper.
And then the religious types can argue among themselves exactly how their objects of veneration have been grossly insulted. It'll be a head-scratcher.
Posted by: torcant | July 20, 2008 1:50 PM
How about sending a cracker to the Catholic that threatens you to poison, saying that it is a smuggled cracker saved from your evil hands. I wonder what will that person do with that cracker!
Posted by: Bevans | July 20, 2008 1:50 PM
Are you sure you want to desecrate a Koran? I mean, Christian crazies are one thing, but Muslims have their own unique and amazing form of crazy that I wouldn't want to mess with.
Posted by: Arnaud | July 20, 2008 1:50 PM
You're probably the only blogger ever to complain of too many comments! What next? Too many readers?
Posted by: Andy | July 20, 2008 1:51 PM
PZ,
you want to actually treat a copy of the Koran with disprespect? That should lead to quite a larger number of death threats, which will surely be more serious than the ones you received from catholics. Although I surely wish you a huge load of luck.
Let's see what effect this will have. I hope it will contribute in some way to enlightenment.
You surely deserve respect for your enormous, almost shocking courage.
Posted by: Heather | July 20, 2008 1:52 PM
Admit it...you're afraid of crackers. You're afraid that you'll find out that everything tastes better with a little bit o' Jesus on it. Trisket? Cheez-its? None can compare to the fine flavor of a Savoir wafer.
Actually, they don't taste like much. One of my in-laws' customs for Christmas Eve is that everyone shares a little bit of the unconsecrated stuff as part of well-wishing for the coming year. It really doesn't taste like much. Of course, maybe it's missing something since it wasn't blessed or anything.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 1:54 PM
Lucite. Verily and truly I say unto you: Lucite. Embed the Koran, embellished with a communion wafer, in a block of Lucite. The result is a useful doorstop or heavy-duty paperweight and (this is the best part!) preserves the ever-so-holy sacred stuff in an inert block. It's like a reliquary! Of course it's not encrusted with gems and festooned with gold leaf like a proper Catholic one, but it's way more efficient and cheaper.
Or, if there are any fashion design folks around, you could make some shoes .
Posted by: cory | July 20, 2008 1:54 PM
Faiths seem to go through phases. They generally calm down over time. 500 years ago a LOT of Xtians would have been willing to immolate you for cracker dissin'. 1200 years ago and a ham sandwich might have gotten you stoned (not in the fun way). Now, though they are out there, Xtians and Jews willing to kill for the faith are a lot more rare.
At this moment in history, Koran abuse probably has a statistically better chance than does pastry abuse of earning you a fatwa that someone might actually take a shot at fulfilling (some pun intended).
You may want to acquire some Groucho specs if you decide to go that route....
Posted by: SC | July 20, 2008 1:55 PM
And if this turns into another thousand comment thread, I shall be very, very cranky.
...
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 20, 2008 1:40 PM
Hmm...
Posted by: Chris Granade | July 20, 2008 1:55 PM
@Arnaud (#16):
Over something as stupid as this? I was laughing my ass of at first, but this whole cracker mess has gone long enough IMHO. Besides, I feel bad for PZ having to moderate so much. Not in the sense of clicking through to approve comments, but in the sense of having to track down and ban trolls all the time. I'm sure he has better things do to. Like making a sandwich. Mmmmm... sammwich.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 1:58 PM
And if this turns into another thousand comment thread, I shall be very, very cranky.
Oh Noes! He's going to desecrate a comment thread!
Posted by: cory | July 20, 2008 1:58 PM
Any what do you have against Koreans anyway?
What?
Oh....
Never mind.
Posted by: Unity | July 20, 2008 1:58 PM
So the magic cracker turns into the body of Jeebus immediately after the priest does his mumbo jumbo bit in Latin, right?
Well then, why not subject the cracker to a DNA test and publish the results.
Posted by: Eric | July 20, 2008 1:59 PM
Just throw them in the trash. It's just garbage and useless. Now, the sandwich, that's something of value. As for the copies of the Koran, free books. Donate them to a Christian school.
Posted by: c-serpent | July 20, 2008 1:59 PM
Your greatest sin sir is to so baselessly apply the crass term cracker to the divinely-inspired communion wafer. Its divinity is self-evident in its unbearable whiteness of being, its pallid shine filling the eyes with heart-rending anticipation of its blandness upon your tongue. Once the divinely delicate non-confection alights upon said organ, its consistency of a slightly heavy patch of air, convinces even the not so finely-refined palate of the slack-jawed rube of its waferly holiness. It melts, nay sublimates within one's oral cavity, seemingly into nothingness, providing more proof of its divine creation. But, for those persistent doubters, one only need see that once consumed, the fortunate soul having done so gains nary an ounce. Cracker indeed - what a crude comparison - shame on you sir, shame.
Posted by: anon | July 20, 2008 2:00 PM
Nooooooo.....Don't do it on a Sunday. That would be sacrilege!
Posted by: Eric | July 20, 2008 2:01 PM
You're right c-serpent, the crackers taste like shit. Maybe with some BBQ sauce Jesus flesh would be a better treat.
Posted by: Patricia | July 20, 2008 2:01 PM
I'm sick of the cracker too. Except the Bacon Kips, which seem to be in South Africa. Damn!
Posted by: Gib | July 20, 2008 2:02 PM
PZ,
I agree with Andy and Bevans.
I really think you shouldn't desecrate that Koran in public. We have proof that Muslims are crazy enough to react very badly to that. It takes only one, and once you've publicised it, you can't take it back. Some Imam who wants to get publicity might put a fatwa on you, and you'll have to live in hiding. It happened to Salman Rushdie.
Seriously, PZ, it would be great to watch, but please don't do it.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 2:02 PM
Just throw them in the trash. It's just garbage and useless. Now, the sandwich, that's something of value. As for the copies of the Koran, free books. Donate them to a Christian school.
Exactly. Throw 'em in the trash (and the book in the recycling), take a picture, post it, and be done. It really is so insignificant that the photo is the only extraordinary action I would even see as worthwhile.
Posted by: Steve P. | July 20, 2008 2:02 PM
Just throw them in the trash. Quick, easy, and sure to ruffle some feathers.
Posted by: qedpro | July 20, 2008 2:02 PM
I really think the catholics have fatwa envy.
You know they're just totally pissed that they just can't kill us anymore.
P.S I just thought i'd post so that we could get to that 1000 comment limit and see if PZ turns into the Hulk or something equally cool. I love it when Dad gets mad at us.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 2:03 PM
Or compost them.
Posted by: Richard Harris | July 20, 2008 2:04 PM
"then I might take a moment to casually demolish a sacred cow."
Hey, PZ, & why not pick on the Hindus too, eh? They're just as crazy as the followers of the Abrahamic religions. Feckin' edjits, the lot of them.
Posted by: Facehammer | July 20, 2008 2:04 PM
Please, please annihilate the cracker with the biggest hammer you can find. There are several advantages: it will take less of your valuable time than pretty much anything else, and the brutal lack of subtlety will amuse and satisfy everyone worth caring about.
The only disadvantage is that it won't sate Catholic Quran envy, as hammering a book into oblivion would take a LOT of effort.
Posted by: chgo_liz | July 20, 2008 2:06 PM
Since religious belief is for bird-brains, why not crumble up the cracker and cast it on the ground for the local pigeons? That way, if there is poison, you've "merely" killed a rat-with-wings. And you'd be giving Jesus an opportunity to enact a miracle.
I agree about the Koran though. Desecrating ANY book is real sacrilege, even fairy tales and other fantasies.
Posted by: N.K. | July 20, 2008 2:07 PM
Get a sharpie and draw a little suit and tie on the cracker.
...Oh my goodness, that would be adorable. A little suit and tie! :3
Posted by: J | July 20, 2008 2:10 PM
PZ, do not desecrate a Koran. Don't be stupid. Just don't go there.
Posted by: procyon | July 20, 2008 2:11 PM
DOOOO IT.......DOOOO IT.......DOOOO IT.
Are you scared?
Posted by: raven | July 20, 2008 2:12 PM
PZ already offered to deliver the crackers to a priest if the church would disavow Donohue's mindless ranting and the death threaters. Not stop them since they are short on heavy weapons and troops since the enlightenment and couldn't anyway.
A quid pro quo.
The result so far has been a refusal and dead silence.
Proof that they really don't really care about the crackers. As McCluhan said, "the ranting is the message."
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 20, 2008 2:12 PM
People keep saying that. It's baloney. I have received a torrent of threats to my life and my livelihood from Catholics, and the impression they're making is that they are just as fanatical and dangerous as Muslims. I'm more worried about the Catholics, because there is one major difference: the media, the police, the government in general in the United States will be more sympathetic to Christian terrorism than they will be to Muslim terrorism.
Don't be misled. Bill Donohue is just another hate-mongering extortionist mullah, no different than the ones in the Middle East.
Posted by: Vole | July 20, 2008 2:13 PM
PZ, I agree with you 100%, but I'm finding this very scary. I don't know what you plan to do with your Koran, but please remember what kind of a life Salman Rushdie has to lead nowadays.
Please think carefully about what you are doing. We need you.
Posted by: anon | July 20, 2008 2:13 PM
I think it's in poor taste to desecrate the koran while our country is fighting a war it started against a muslim country. Mocking religion is fun, but not if it becomes a proxy for racism. I realize you are not racist, but this action will surely be taken out of context.
Posted by: Fiziker | July 20, 2008 2:15 PM
The greatest desecration that can come to the host is for it to be used in science. I vote for what I believe has been mentioned before: a holy Petri dish. You're a biologist; set it up in the appropriate conditions and take pictures over time.
I agree with #38. While I want to see the Koran desecrated, I am very obsessive about books: I can't stand it when even they get worn in. I was going to suggest crushing the host between the pages of the Koran and making it all crummy inside but that was too much for me to handle. Couldn't you do something more humane? Say, take a piss on the Kaaba?
Posted by: Ken Cope | July 20, 2008 2:16 PM
A Squid pro quo.
There, fixed that for ya.
Posted by: J | July 20, 2008 2:19 PM
As ridiculous as this cracker affair has been, it hasn't come close to the Danish cartoon controversy, during which over 100 people were killed. The Islamic fundamentalists have a proven track record. They don't just send idle death threats; they really do kill people. Desecrate a Koran and you'll be playing with dynamite.
Donohue is a loon, but unlike many Muslim leaders, he has never issued any fatwas.
Posted by: Phillip IV | July 20, 2008 2:19 PM
So some Catholics have sent you unconsecrated, poisoned crackers, and other Catholics demand that you turn all the crackers you receive over to a priest, so he can properly dispose of them by consumption? Sounds like a slight coordination problem...
Posted by: Kobra | July 20, 2008 2:20 PM
in b4 1000 comments.
Okay, seriously, just drop the crackers into a beaker filled with Hydrochloric acid and post it on Youtube.
Posted by: Kobra | July 20, 2008 2:21 PM
#50: Forgot to add this:
If the Catholics have an outcry, kindly point out that eating the crackers would have the same effect and therefore they are stupid.
Posted by: karen | July 20, 2008 2:22 PM
Dearest PZ,
I hope your sandwich was fulfilling and delicious. Please, do take care of your personal needs and responsibilities before engaging in Operation Desecration. I patiently await whatever your ideas for the holy cows will bring. Have you considered this:
Put the cracker and the Koran in their own individual jars in a tank with an octopus and see which jar it chooses to open.
Of course, you'd have to score yourself an actual octopus for this. All the better!
Posted by: raven | July 20, 2008 2:23 PM
So how many death threats have you received? I'm estimating around a hundred, 10 or 20 per day but the actual number could be much higher.
Of course the xian terrorist wannabes like Donohue and the fanatic segment of the Catholics are no different from Moslem terrorists. Terrorism is terrorism. But both are dangerous killers. You should be careful.
The 3,000 people in the World Trade Center were innocent bystanders occupying the moral high ground. Look what happened to them. Right or wrong doesn't mean anything to terrorists.
Posted by: Aaron Baker | July 20, 2008 2:24 PM
I have nothing but contempt for Bill Donohue, and I'll defend (not to the death, but to any reasonable extent) your right to say and do whatever you want with a communion wafer or a Quran, but . . .
for goodness' sake, going out of your way to wound (in the most drastic manner possible) the sensibilities of the pious, carries absolutely no conviction for anyone who isn't already on your side. Since it won't convince, it has, then, as far as I can see, no legitimate justification. Deliberately maltreating a host, or a Quran, could only be the act of an infantile jerk (to steal a page from Mark Kleinert).
You're free to be a jerk, of course, and to be applauded by other jerks. Please excuse me, though, if I sit out this round of mutual congratulation.
Posted by: Ken Cope | July 20, 2008 2:27 PM
Wrap up each cracker in a little burial cloth made out of a different page of the Koran, and nuke them individually in the microwave. Unfold each page of the Koran and see if what afterimages show up in each crumbly scripty Shroud of Turin. If you need something with some water for the microwaves to agitage, try a slice of Black Forest Ham from the local deli (Black Forest in honor of the German Pope.
Get an art grant for it and make it a performance piece.
Posted by: llewelly | July 20, 2008 2:29 PM
Uh... I guess that means you won't eat the Koran?
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 20, 2008 2:29 PM
I still insist that a project to memorialize those massacred for committing host desecration is the way to go.
Hm. Are there instances of murder done because of Koran desecration?
Huh. This article says that you, PZ, desecrate the Qur'an merely by touching it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur%27an_desecration
Say: The Koran, being a heretical work, is naturally unholy to Christianity, while the wafers, being idolatry against the unity of Allah, are also unholy to Islam.
So if you simply took the wafers and just put them into the Koran, wouldn't that desecrate them both at the same time?
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 20, 2008 2:30 PM
IT'S JUST A CRACKER! This is drastic? What's the matter with you people?
Posted by: Mike O'Risal | July 20, 2008 2:30 PM
Do what you will with the cracker, but keep in mind what the Pope said when in his opening address at World Youth Day in Sydney earlier this week:
I think we all know what he meant by that. If you hurt that cracker, the Twins are going to lose bigtime.Posted by: Brett McCoy | July 20, 2008 2:31 PM
Besides, you're a mad scientist, shouldn't you be out trying to destroy muscle bound heroes?
Posted by: raven | July 20, 2008 2:31 PM
PZ should just hold onto the crackers for a year or two. It isn't like there is a schedule or anything.
And wait for some Catholic priest or diocese to disavow Donohue's ranting and the death threaters in return for some stale crackers of dubious origin. Not stop them, just explain that death threaters and general Donohue class lunacy don't represent them.
He's made his point hundreds of times over. Catholic terrorists=Moslem terrorists. Sort of redundant, fanatics are all the same.
Posted by: Holbach | July 20, 2008 2:33 PM
Have a public ceremomy in front of the media on the announced day, make a statement that you will not degrade your dignity and intelligence by mocking these two symbols of abject insanity, but will consign them to one who will render to them what they and related objects of irrationality should be so recognized, and then hand them to- Santa Claus!
Posted by: Mike O'Risal | July 20, 2008 2:33 PM
Oh, by the way... if the Korans you received have an English translation, they weren't sacred in the first place. The Koran is never supposed to be translated, and if its translated its not really a Koran anymore. To be a Koran, it can only be in Arabic.
Posted by: Aramael | July 20, 2008 2:34 PM
What's all this about eating Jesus anyway? He was eating me, and that was OK, but when I blew him, he just kept going on about his father ... bit of a turn off if you ask me.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 20, 2008 2:34 PM
Besides, you're a mad scientist, shouldn't you be out trying to destroy muscle bound heroes?
Don't destroy them! Send them to my room!
Posted by: J | July 20, 2008 2:35 PM
Also, as Aaron points out (#54), there's simply no need for doing this. PZ will be going out of his way to offend the religious, just for the sake of offending them. This is an unpleasant, mean-spirited thing to do.
It's comparable to approaching fat people in the street and telling them they're fat. Who cares if you're right? It's gratuitous, senseless and uncalled for.
Posted by: llewelly | July 20, 2008 2:35 PM
PZ Myers:
Pfft! there are plenty of online forums that have been coping with 1000+ comment threads for years (web forums) or even decades (usenet). You need to encourage the Sb staff to upgrade their lame-ass technology. One cheap improvement would be to display comments in chunks of 100 comments by default, and only display all comments on one page for those crazy enough to want it.
Posted by: Aaron Baker | July 20, 2008 2:36 PM
Obviously, it's not just a cracker for devout Catholics. Come on, P.Z., you're smarter than that.
Posted by: J Daley | July 20, 2008 2:37 PM
[blockquote]IT'S JUST A CRACKER! This is drastic? What's the matter with you people?[/blockquote]
Exactly. Sorry, PZ, but this is stupid.
Posted by: Andy | July 20, 2008 2:37 PM
Dear PZ,
the question remains who is actually going to try to murder you and not only threaten to do so: The fanatical Catholics or the fanatical Muslims? In the case of the Muslims we know the fate of Theo Van Gogh and all the others they have indeed murdered for merely critizising Islam, whilst desecregating the Koran is even worse in their deluded eyes.
In the case of the Catholics, even for their worst elements, the time of the Inquisition seems to be over.
But alright. I'll support you as a journalist. After all, it's not just about atheism versus religion, it is mainly about the right to live (and not to be threatened with death) versus sheer barbarism.
Best wishes,
Andy
Posted by: Mike O'Risal | July 20, 2008 2:37 PM
PZ is not a true mad scientist. Everybody knows that real mad scientists have to be bald. You can't get into the union until you're head's shaven clean and proper, Mr. Dr. Science Guy.
Posted by: SC | July 20, 2008 2:38 PM
I still insist that a project to memorialize those massacred for committing host desecration is the way to go.
I like that idea. Something similar with the Koran would be a good idea as well.
Posted by: llewelly | July 20, 2008 2:40 PM
PZ Myers, #43:
Please post! (without identifying information - we don't need any more Melanie Kroll firings.)
Posted by: Betz | July 20, 2008 2:41 PM
Here's a testable prediction: one cranky PZ in the near future.
In wafer-related news, this week's TIME (July 28) has a couple letters to the editor criticizing them for ending a "Catholic Voters" article with the line "Come November, that priest may be holding on to a very full bowl of wafers." A Rita Healy from Charlotte responds testily that it "is the body of Jesus Christ." Not symbolizes, not represents, just is. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg, methinks.
Later that same issue was 12 pages about Mark Twain, including how he loved to skewer the pious. Maybe Rita should have read the whole issue and done some thinking before responding in high dudgeon.
This ongoing episode brings to mind the classic Far Side cartoon - one amoeba to another: "Stimulus, response, stimulus, response. Don't you ever THINK?"
(Sorry if this double-posts. Preview issues.)
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 20, 2008 2:41 PM
It is just a cracker for devout Catholics, too. That they believe it has magic powers does not mean that it does.
"If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs would the dog have?"
If you claim 5, you're missing the point.
"No, dogs have four legs, and merely calling the tail another leg does not make it so."
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 20, 2008 2:41 PM
Oh, and you might also want to include the theological justification that God is perfectly capable of de-transubstantiating out of the cracker, or of not transubstantiating into the cracker in the first place.
So there's nothing there to desecrate anyway.
Quoting from the "Qur'an desecration article": 'Intentionally insulting the Qur'an is regarded as a form of blasphemy.'
So you could just hold up the Koran (that is, touching it), and point to it with your other hand and say "This book is filled with silly nonsense, stories, lies, and garbage". Poof! Desecration and blasphemy, all at the same time.
Posted by: Jonathan Rothwell | July 20, 2008 2:42 PM
Turn the crackers into little octopus sandwiches, and send the copies of the Koran off to Andrew Schlafly. And MAKE him read it - in Arabic.
Seriously, though, my advice to you is don't be stupid.
Posted by: Q | July 20, 2008 2:45 PM
No, PZ is going out of his way to do things to objects.The people giving themselves offense about this are mean-spirited.
Posted by: SC | July 20, 2008 2:46 PM
PZ will be going out of his way to offend the religious, just for the sake of offending them.
If you really believe this, you are unfathomably stupid.
Posted by: ThePetey | July 20, 2008 2:46 PM
I say just toss it all in the dumpster with the rest of the garbage.
Posted by: Steve Zara | July 20, 2008 2:47 PM
#58
PZ
It's just a cracker. To you, to me, and to millions of atheists, and billions of non-Catholics. But to many Catholics, it has deep symbolism, even if a significant number find it difficult to believe it is actually Jesus-flesh in any sense(*).
You have probably heard this kind of argument hundreds of times, but here goes anyway.
To some people, it would be like burning a book. Even if a book was freely given, book-burning has symbolism, and is offensive to some people, even though it would be entirely right to say "it's just ink on paper, people!"
I have been deeply shocked by the threats and crazy over-reaction, and I condemn them utterly. But I can understand why millions of Catholics would feel offended by "desecration" of the "host".
*(I was a Catholic decades ago. I never quite managed the mental gymnastics to understand transubstantiation)
Posted by: Colugo | July 20, 2008 2:49 PM
I've given the matter some more thought, and at the risk of being called a concern troll (hey, if the shoe fits...) I am going to ask Professor Myers to reconsider the planned desecrations of both the wafers and the Koran.
I am an atheist. I have in the past been critical of Catholic dogma and child abuse, Islamist religious fanaticism etc.
The wafer: As has been pointed out by others, there is no way to obtain a consecrated host for these purposes without bad faith. It would be like getting a free newspaper out of a bin and turning it into paper mache instead of reading it. Actually, it's much worse. The consecrated wafers are not disseminated by the church so they can be objects of desecration. End of story.
The Koran: Here the same problem of 'obtained by bad faith' does not present itself. But just because something can be done doesn't mean it should. You know who desecrates Korans? Muslim fanatics. In Darfur, Janjaweed have destroyed and defecated on the Korans of the villagers they are annihilating.
In fact, through the ages it is always religious fanatics who destroy and desecrate the holy relics of rival faiths. There is absolutely nothing novel about it, and it's only "transgressive" as an attack on a particular faith rather than faith itself. Desecration is historically not associated with the absence of faith but a rivalry of faith. To engage in it plays the notion that atheism is a kind of faith itself.
I know that I sound like a self-aggrandizing sanctimonious ass, but I don't think a lot of you realize how this kind of thing looks to the non-atheist world. How do you suppose Barack Obama would react if asked about this? I bet he'd be appalled.
Posted by: pcarini | July 20, 2008 2:49 PM
PZ Myers:
I'd say prepare to be very, very cranky.
llewelly @ #67
As huge of a difference as paginating the comments would make, I really prefer the current format. It encourages a different sort of interaction, imho, than a forum or other threaded method. Plus I like being able to search for a phrase or someone's name and find the post in a single page.
They aren't going to get mad a PZ for bringing in this many hits, after all ;)
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 20, 2008 2:52 PM
Speaking of 1000+ comment threads, you might want to cap off "Fresh Crackers", since it has hit 1518 comments.
Posted by: JeffreyD | July 20, 2008 2:52 PM
Patricia at #30, go to
http://www.africanhut.com/shopexd.asp?id=97
Shop till you drop, dear lady.
Pax Nabisco
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 20, 2008 2:53 PM
Do people realize that Muslim reaction to blasphemy is irrelevant to Catholics reaction to blasphemy? That the fact that Muslims rioted when those papers printed those cartoons in no way changes the fact that Bill Donahue is insane?
Posted by: N.K. | July 20, 2008 2:55 PM
IT WOULD BE SO ADORABLE IF YOU TOOK THE CRACKER, AND USED RED AND BLACK SHARPIES TO DRAW A LITTLE SUIT AND TIE ON IT.
...
PZ.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO INSIST.