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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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Category: Kooks
Posted on: July 16, 2008 8:58 AM, by PZ Myers
I regret to inform you all that Melanie Kroll has been fired for using her work account to sound death threats. In a further and not-unexpected twist, it wasn't Melanie who composed and wrote the message — the husband, Chuck Kroll, did it. We even have a confession. Good work, Chuck! You cost your wife her job!
Comments
Posted by: Robert | July 16, 2008 9:05 AM
I feel kinda sorry for the wife, it's hard to lose a job because of someone else's actions. Hopefully it won't cause too much finacial hardship, and the Husband actually learns something, even if its only "don't use work email for death threats."
Posted by: Richard Harris | July 16, 2008 9:07 AM
I guess that the Kroll's just didn't pray hard enough. Feckin' edjits.
I was getting a bit worried about you, PZ, because of the long silence. Glad to see you're still okay. Keep up the valuable service to rationalism.
Posted by: I am so Wise | July 16, 2008 9:08 AM
What a moron. I'd tell her to divorce his idiot ass and take everything he owns, but he's probably broke.
Posted by: JohnA | July 16, 2008 9:11 AM
Yeah, get to work, Chuck. I hope you can fix this. Confessing was a start. Speaking of confession - what'll you tell the priest about this? Will he absolve you?
Posted by: Richard Harris | July 16, 2008 9:12 AM
Robert, I haven't read all the text on this, but was it the case that Mrs Kroll allowed Mr Kroll to use her firm's email? If this was the case, she got what she deserved. Well, I reckon she probably deserved worse.
Posted by: Julian | July 16, 2008 9:13 AM
He won't learn anything from this. In fact, the fool is blaming PZ and everyone who complained to 1-800 Flowers for what happened.
Posted by: PatrickHenry | July 16, 2008 9:15 AM
Things certainly move swiftly in cyberspace. Threat, confession, retribution. Now what -- smug gloating? That's not nice. There aren't any winners in this mess. We should just move along now.
Posted by: Andrew | July 16, 2008 9:16 AM
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Reading the comments that it both seemed too aggressive and because men are much more likely to call someone else a cunt, I (and I have to assume many others--I is not a jenius) figured that it was either her son or husband visiting her office, or a male coworker.
If she really had no idea about it, I really feel bad for Melanie Kroll. I hope she divorces the guy. Honestly, she probably already suffers enough having such a violent, idiotic jackass as a husband, and her only crime was letting him have access to her computer. If that violates the employee rules there, though, then it's fair for her to be fired, but I hope she finds another job and is more careful regarding who has access to her computer.
As for her husband, though, he still sent you death threats. I'd hope for him to be fired from his job, but from the sound of things (he has lots of time on his hands and no other computer to use?) she is/was the breadwinner. Yup, good going, douche. Your dreams have come true.
Posted by: amg | July 16, 2008 9:16 AM
The ridiculous discrepancy between the writing style of the infamous email and the 'confession' is suspect, IMHO...or indicative of serious substance abuse and multiple personality disorder.
Posted by: apy | July 16, 2008 9:16 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he just jumped on her laptop and had no idea how emails got sent, they just sent. It sounds like the ultimate stupidity to the internet savvy but I've seen much worse. Reading his confession, he is at least sorry, hopefully sincerely.
Posted by: Julian | July 16, 2008 9:17 AM
Richard Harris: No, she works from home and her email account was the default one for the computer. Her husband, being a moron, just used the first email account he could access to send the message instead of changing to his own. Either that, or they share the account which is a HORRIBLE idea.
Posted by: ElJay | July 16, 2008 9:18 AM
Horrible thing to happen to her.A wife in a family with that 'culture' is not always as free to do what is right as one would hope in 21st Century USA. Despite what her ex-company policy was regarding IT/email usage, her true boss was her husband and the church.
Maybe not a burka wearer or female circumsision family but still not free.
Ahh religion, your use by date is up, no matter what your brand you leave a shitty taste in the mouth and continue to ruin lives one family at a time.
Posted by: SC | July 16, 2008 9:19 AM
Yes, inquiring minds want to know: Does the University of Minnesota accept any money from the state?
Posted by: Feedayeen | July 16, 2008 9:20 AM
This isn't much of a punishment for him, arn't good Christian women suppost to be baby factories? This will just give them more time to produce more kids.
Posted by: Chris Long | July 16, 2008 9:21 AM
Not that it makes a huge amount of difference, but I would guess that she lost her job based simply on the fact that she let someone else use her company laptop. That's certainly a sacking offence in my company, regardless of whether the other person uses it to send death threats or play solitaire.
Posted by: Chris | July 16, 2008 9:21 AM
I will readily admit that it's bad to lose one's job due to someone else's actions, I can't really say I'm sorry for her. She apparently violated company regulations by letting someone else use her computer or mail account. It's standard policy to get fired for that.
However, I will pray for the family. Let's see if this will help. If it doesn't, at least I will feel good about doing nothing...
Posted by: PennyBright | July 16, 2008 9:24 AM
Yeesh. Poor woman.
Posted by: tsig | July 16, 2008 9:26 AM
It reads like a notpology to me. He still doesn't think he did anything wrong it's just that he got caught.
It's not his fault his wife got fired, it's ours for sending emails to flowers. It's not his fault he can't control his anger but PZ's for provoking it.
A simple " I'm sorry" would have said more than all his crocodile tears.
Posted by: J-Dog | July 16, 2008 9:28 AM
Chris said: "However, I will pray for the family. Let's see if this will help. If it doesn't, at least I will feel good about doing nothing... "
Ah! This is just beautifully perfect and works on so many levels! I think I will have to use your approach in the future. Thanks. It's like the Seinfeld approach to religion - it's a prayer about nothing! Beatitiful.
Posted by: Tosser | July 16, 2008 9:29 AM
He ends with what appears to me to be a mis-quote from the movie True Romance: "Now I ask you, if that's a fact. am I lying." Weird
Less amusing....He also uses the popular threat-in-disguise of saying, "I dare you to go offend a Muslim." This means, in effect, "I'm not going to hurt you, but I want you to be hurt. So go offend someone who will kill you, and I'll be happy about it." That's a version of extraordinary rendition.
The guy still doesn't get it and doesn't seem ready, willing, or perhaps even capable of moving on.
Are we sure that this is the guy, and that there's not something odd still going on?
Posted by: Ted D | July 16, 2008 9:31 AM
I only hope that she places the blame for losing her job squarely on Mr. Kroll, where it belongs. But then, if she did have poor enough sense to marry him...
Anyone keeping count of how many lives are being seriously disrupted by a damn cracker? Honestly, regarding things like this I am gripped by a nigh irresistible urge to grab people by the shoulders, shake them vigorously and shout "but don't you see!?" into their astonished faces. But of course, they don't.
Posted by: Doug | July 16, 2008 9:32 AM
Hi, at 1-800-FLOWERS we send the very best in flowers, and death threats. If you want to send a loved one flowers then call 1-800-FLOWERS. If you want to send an ex death threats then we have you covered as well. 1-800-FLOWERS, your #1 resource for flowers and death threats.
Posted by: MissPrism | July 16, 2008 9:32 AM
I'm sorry to hear that Mrs Kroll lost her job - presumably she trusted her husband enough not to hide her password from him, which is not so terrible in itself. I hope things turn out OK for her.
Although I'm not too bothered about him.
Posted by: Dave Wisker | July 16, 2008 9:33 AM
We don't know if Mrs Kroll knew her knuckleheaded spouse used her computer to send the email, so while I don't think she deserves to lose her job over it, the company cannot ignore the fact that a federal crime was committed using their email system, that it was made excruciatingly PUBLIC by this blog, and that they received an unbelievably massive response from the readers of the blog (despite PZ's wise pleas for us not to do so), I imagine they feel they have no choice but to fire Mrs Kroll. In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, 'Deserve's got nothing to do with it'.
Everybody lost in this mess. I feel sick over it.
Posted by: tsig | July 16, 2008 9:34 AM
J-dog I like the idea of "an atheists prayer" maybe "my good thoughts to you" or just " I wish you well" of course the simple "I'll pray for you" is completely appropriate also.
Posted by: N.K. | July 16, 2008 9:34 AM
I'll say what I said on his confession:
"Good job, you've cost your wife her job.
You care more about a cracker than your wife."
That poor woman.
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | July 16, 2008 9:35 AM
The Krolls will be in my prayers (which is nihilist for "fuck 'em.")
Posted by: David Davidson | July 16, 2008 9:36 AM
"There are many folks that read, and blog, at this site who are not religious. Perhaps you feel it's silly, outdated, or superstition, fine. This is your right, but for people in positions of responsibility and with the power to encourage captive undeveloped minds to attack their neighbors beliefs is just insane, divisive, and maybe even criminal."
I guess we're going to have to start shutting down Catholic schools, then. They're all about molding impressionable young children into good Christians.
I hate to be like this, but they're actually pretty lucky that PZ's audience is so restrained. There are people on the internet who would not have been satisfied with just contacting 1-800-Flowers, who would have ruined his and the wife's lives just for fun. Compared to Anonymous, I've seen nothing but saints (pardon the poetic liscence) here.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | July 16, 2008 9:36 AM
I am not surprised that Melanie wasn't the real poster. In reading the original thread, and after finding out the owner was a woman, I had the feeling that her e-mail was hijacked. That fact that her husband did it isn't suprising either. She needs to take a good look at their relationship. Evidently he is a rather dim bulb.
Using company e-mail to send death threats is a fireable offense at my company too.
Posted by: Mike | July 16, 2008 9:37 AM
The guy should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and should probably serve jail time. No doubt he will find a catholic Judge and get off with a warning
Posted by: Chris | July 16, 2008 9:38 AM
@J-Dog
I was, of course, referring to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/so_thats_why_they_do_it.php ;-)
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | July 16, 2008 9:39 AM
My immediate reaction is that compared to being married to this guy, losing her job is a relatively minor bump in the road.
Of course, that's silly: Losing your livelihood is never minor, and it's possible that this fellow isn't as crazy as this incident makes him seem. I know I've known people who came across as major asshats on the internet but were perfectly decent in Real Life™, or who were major asshats on one particular subject, but were otherwise pleasant and reasonable. Sadly, of course, Occam's Razor suggests the most likely answer is that he just is a major asshat.
As for Greg's characterization that Chuckie's explanation of how this "mistake" happened is "garbled," I disagree: I have 3 different e-mail addresses that I read through a single mail client on my home machine, and I'm sometimes surprised at which one shows up as the "from" address when I click on a website mail-to link, so I know exactly what he's talking about. That said, I don't use my work email from home anyway, in part because I don't want to risk this sort of thing (and also because I'm obsessive about keeping work life and home life separate: I'd rather spend extra hours at the office than allow work to invade my home). I don't know what 1-800-FLOWERS' policy on this is, but I'd bet it's always the employee's responsibility to protect company computers from misuse. "My husband did it accidentally" potentially exonerates her from making death threats, but maybe not from a violation of her company's IT policy.
Assuming Chuck's confession is accurate and Melanie was not complicit in this in some other, unstated, way, I hope the company will review their decision and reinstate her with a reduced penalty (maybe a reprimand or suspension, plus no access to e-mail from home? mandatory computer security training?).
Posted by: Bill the Cat | July 16, 2008 9:39 AM
For her terroristic threat, I hope she likes Guantanamo.
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | July 16, 2008 9:39 AM
Chris said:
It is where I work as well - and this incident is an excellent example as to why companies insist upon this policy.
PennyBright said:
Indeed - the Divorce Court must look unbelievably attractive to her right about now (at the very least Chuck has some serious grovelling to do)!
Posted by: sublunary | July 16, 2008 9:39 AM
Wow, I have to say I feel bad for Melanie, especially if she truly didn't realize her husband was using her computer.
I am, however, glad we know who wrote the threat. Hopefully this mess might deter further threats from coming in. If it's not too much to hope for that the people who would send such threats in the first place realize that their actions have consequences.
And PZ, I'm glad we finally have a post from you. I'm used to a few a day and your absence was a bit disconcerting.
Posted by: alex | July 16, 2008 9:40 AM
that's a pity. poor woman.
Posted by: kryptonic | July 16, 2008 9:40 AM
Wow wow wee. I didn't see that one coming!
Posted by: tsig | July 16, 2008 9:42 AM
Hi Nerd of Redhead
Using company email to do anything but company business is a firing offense in most companies.
Posted by: Zeno | July 16, 2008 9:44 AM
Mr. Kroll offers an exculpatory reason for his attack on PZ. He seems to have discerned that PZ loves Islam!
Chuck Kroll: What many folks don't know, is that mr. myers seems to have a warm spot for the Islamic religion. We know this from his spirited defense of Islam in the past, he insists Islam differs from other religions. It seems that mr.myers can't even be a good atheist.
See? Kroll has read Pharyngula and has picked up on PZ's devotion to Islam. All is made clear!
What's made clear is that Kroll is an idiot as well as a jerk.
Posted by: Josh West | July 16, 2008 9:45 AM
@ #28 David Davidson
"Compared to Anonymous, I've seen nothing but saints (pardon the poetic liscence) here."
Compared the the Phyrangula audience, Anonymous may have a higher kook/sane ration, but I'm fairly sure most of their bad press is a direct result of actions by their opponents. It's pretty much par for the course for the CoScientology.
Posted by: chief | July 16, 2008 9:45 AM
Irony meter alert!! Of course, PZ is charged by the University to teach biology (facts, laws, theories) to developed adult minds. He in no way "influences the children." Parents, pastors, preachers, priests and other religious wingnuts are in a position of warping young, easily influenced minds.
Posted by: SC | July 16, 2008 9:49 AM
However, someone on the "Please stop this, NOW" thread (Matt Penfold, I believe) made the very good point that companies need to provide instruction and supervision to their employees on computer security. If people don't understand the basics, it's difficult to abide by the policy. In fact, providing good training is, I think, far more effective than having strict policies in preventing security breaches.
ElJay @ #12 - You have a very active imagination.
Posted by: Scott Mc | July 16, 2008 9:50 AM
I feel sorry for Melanie. I don't care what the pedants and gloaters have to say on the subject. At the end of the day, her husband did an illegal and incredibly dumb thing and now she and her family are paying for it. I personally don't take any satisfaction from that, and I would hope that the catholics/republicans/whomever reading this would accept that neither does PZ.
I'll absolutely defend your right to free speech - I wish I had the same rights, except I live in the UK, and we have to watch what we say these days. But whoever you are, I hope you agree that death threats are simply not acceptable, however strongly you feel about something. I've send many a CLM (Career-limiting Move) email in my time, and I've learned to write the nasty-gram, but not send it until I've had a walk and a coffee and a think about it. I feel better, delete the email, and no ramifications to deal with.
Just a suggestion. Melanie, I can't pray for you, but you and your family are in my thoughts.
Scott.
Posted by: Christophe Thill | July 16, 2008 9:50 AM
Conclusion : always choose a good password for your personal account on your computer.
Posted by: GirBoBytons | July 16, 2008 9:51 AM
Hey it's all his fault in my opinion. Shes partly accountable too though. Melanie shouldn't be allowing people in her house hold to access her personal work email. Even if you work from home you still need to maintain a professional attitude like for instance, "Once I am done using my email I should LOG OFF, so imposters do not come on and send off the wall death threats with my email account." Personal I would say they are both accountable of course the husband more than the wife but either way stupid mistakes were made by both. Wow PZ this is the best soap opera on the net! Keep up the entertainment!!! You are my hero! :P
Posted by: AJ Milne | July 16, 2008 9:53 AM
Hi, at 1-800-FLOWERS we send the very best in flowers, and death threats. If you want to send a loved one flowers then call 1-800-FLOWERS. If you want to send an ex death threats then we have you covered as well. 1-800-FLOWERS, your #1 resource for flowers and death threats.
I admit it. I LOLed. There's somethin' about being able to laugh at that particular absurdity, even in this really pretty unpleasant situation...
But re. Ms. Kroll and Mr. Kroll, yeah, I dunno. Doesn't sit quite right with me that she gets the sack. I know a bit of net security, actually wrote to PZ to tell him that that particular Receive: chain probably did lead back to a building worth law enforcement's nosing around... But the weird thing is: I just naturally assumed the guilty party was about 90 percent less stupid. As in: the firm used a typically naive SMTP setup, meaning passwords are incredibly easy to grab off any ethernet card you can put in promiscuous mode, so in that case, it wouldn't be so much Ms. Kroll's fault some nutter did just that and happened to choose her account from which to commit a federal felony...
And, well, look at this: some nutter did, more or less, that. 'Cept that he was married to her, and probably wouldn't know a network sniffer from his own nether regions, and oh, geez, probably her part in it wasn't just that she happened to use a really dumb legacy protocol, rather, she was a smidge lax about the security of her work computer in the presence of her spouse...
Yikes, gang. I'm a paranoid crypto guy, and the stuff I handle, no, I sure as hell don't let anyone else--wife included--onto my work machines. But she works for a flower delivery service. I think even as a paranoid crypto guy, I'd sorta look at that and say: okay, bad, silly user, here's a slap on the wrist for you... And oh, tell your husband, specifically, there's some gentlemen headed over with the federal warrant...
But as was commented above: this is the corporate world. Deserve's got nothin' to do with it. Damn.
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | July 16, 2008 9:53 AM
Chief said:
What on earth are you doing with an irony meter in this neck of the woods?
Where have you been? This whole cracker stushie has been an irony-meter graveyard since PZ's first post - I thought the last ones left in one piece had long since fled the field screaming that they couldn't take it any more!
Posted by: Christophe Thill | July 16, 2008 9:54 AM
Now that Mr Kroll has made himself famous, I suggest he changes his name slightly. It will be easier for him to go on with his life, and not be identified as a sender of death threats and incompetent user of e-mail software.
For instance, he cold just change a letter in his name.
The first one.
For a T.
It would fit like a glove!
Posted by: Tophe | July 16, 2008 9:54 AM
@ #41, you beat me to it! I was going to make the same type of comment about Chuck's statement. It seems they like to project their faults onto others from all the times I have seen it done.
Posted by: Scote | July 16, 2008 9:55 AM
"In closing I still maintain that if mr. myers. Or anyone, who is encouraging people to desecrate the Eucharist, or if he is doing so himself, I would like to beat his brains in, would I? I don't know.
I've never done so before. Though, at that one moment when I was reading his statements..?
I suppose If I caught him doing it, I would try to stop him. "
Hmmm...so Chuck would beat Mr. Meyers brains in if he catches him?
Chuck certainly isn't contrite. Definitely a non-apology apology. And definitely not enough contrition to help him get his wife's job back.
Posted by: clinteas | July 16, 2008 9:55 AM
Ok,
I dare to have a different opinion on this,while I see where you guys are coming from,and thats all very well ,and you are probably right saying she should get divorced,hes a deluded dick,great he got caught out and so forth....
I read they have 3 kids,Melanie got fired for doing nothing at all wrong other than being naive and trusting hubby to use her computer,and who of us wouldnt? I get drunk at night and write all sorts of shit here at times,swear and curse and worse,I regularly wish death or the plague on people when Im driving(might be an Australian thing),so I have a somewhat different take on the whole affair.
It was avoidable,it is regrettable,some people here acted like fuckheads,and PZ was naive to not foresee what was going to happen when he posted the mail headers.
Posted by: dkw | July 16, 2008 9:56 AM
C'mon ElJay don't be a dick. Not all goddies have slave-wives and there's nothing in this story to even suggest that's the case.
It's probably just a woman who happens to be married to a complete effing idiot. Happens all the time to all sorts of good, strong women. Now, whether she knew this before now or not (I doubt it, but you never know) is another story.
Posted by: Scott Mc | July 16, 2008 9:56 AM
@ #46
A case of Hanlons razor if ever I saw one.
Scott.
Posted by: JeffreyD | July 16, 2008 9:56 AM
A non apology by Mr. Kroll which I find more offensive than the original threat. He regrets nothing and is trying to gain sympathy for the wife he himself fucked over. The rest, state money questions, them thar muslim types are the real danger, and other nonsense shows he learned nothing and is really only sorry he got caught. Contemptible, lying sack of shit, proven twice now.
Ciao y'all
Posted by: Dave | July 16, 2008 9:58 AM
Maybe he can get her some flowers.Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 16, 2008 9:58 AM
@SC
bwaah
coffee->nose->monitor
Posted by: Michelle | July 16, 2008 9:59 AM
...She married that thing huh? Sigh. I pity her a lot.
Jackass! You could've made up an hotmail! No, you had to send DEATH THREATS from your WIFE'S WORK ACCOUNT! What a tool. What an idiot. You deserve the moron of the day award.
Unless you WANTED to get her fired because she belongs in the kitchen?!
Posted by: windy | July 16, 2008 9:59 AM
More likely she let her husband use the computer without logging out from her email program.
Posted by: barry | July 16, 2008 10:02 AM
Maybe the Catholic League will underwrite that lovely family's financial loss. What do you say, Billy D?
Posted by: Jackal | July 16, 2008 10:02 AM
Wow. The article said Webster Cook was "facing suspention." Does that mean he has been suspended, or may be suspended? All this for not eating a cracker at the appropriate time!
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 16, 2008 10:03 AM
About the Anonymous business:
There are people who like to break computers and overload fax machines for the lulz (what I think a slightly older generation would call "shits and giggles"), and there are people who hear about protests online and decide to show up because they believe it's the right thing to do. These two categories, being from different backgrounds, do not always get along. A fairly detailed history going up through April can be found here.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 16, 2008 10:03 AM
That or that she has her work account set up as the default and he just clicked on the email link to PZ's mail. I've done it before with different accounts I have. Granted these were not my work accounts nor was I threatening to cave anyone's skull in.
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | July 16, 2008 10:04 AM
I hope she gets her job back, and I have no marital advice for her. Presumably she'll figure out a solution that satisfies her. But Chuck, (assuming he's reading this) two words: Hot. Mail.
I'd recommend Gmail but somehow Hotmail seems to be a better fit for you. After all, Google's corporate slogan is "Don't be evil."
Posted by: Herd Animal | July 16, 2008 10:04 AM
I have been fascinated at watching this rather bizzare story unfold. Here are my observations:
1) Homo sapiens evolved on this planet from herd (social) animals.
2) One should choose one's herd memberships carefully. It could be a life or death choice.
3) Belittling the characteristics of "other" herds can be dangerous.
4) Homo sapiens are continuing the evolutionary struggle.
Posted by: Amy | July 16, 2008 10:05 AM
I feel sorry for Melanie too. 1800flowers allows lots of moms to stay home with their kids while earning an income, something that I personally would love to be able to do. It's hard to find legitimate jobs that allow you to stay at home with your kids. She's going to have a hard time finding something that will allow her the same freedom. The repercussions of this whole situation stink.
But ultimately I'm sorriest for her for being married to such an ignorant asshat. I can't imagine how tense things must be at the Kroll home.
Posted by: barry | July 16, 2008 10:06 AM
#60 - That's funny. Generally, ill manners aren't grounds for suspension in college, they're a means to popularity!
Posted by: Chief | July 16, 2008 10:07 AM
@ Lilly #47:
Yes, I thought that my irony meter had exploded earlier (and said as much in a previous post) but apparently the darned thing is indestructible and keeps slapping me in the face. You'd think I'd learn...
Posted by: Becca | July 16, 2008 10:07 AM
Eeek. I didn't even contact 1800 flowers (out of a vauge worry about something like this) and I still feel guilty just watching this.
(of course having the ability to feel this level of guilt/personal responsibility for things I didn't directly contribute to- without something like the Catholic chuch influencing me- is an unusual talent of mine).
Posted by: Christophe Thill | July 16, 2008 10:07 AM
Sez MR Kroll:
"The fact is, that this email to the so called professor, was sent by an angry male catholic, who was very upset after reading that some crazed person in a position of responsibility, charged with teaching children biology..."
OK, never having set foot in an university is not a crime, nor is it laughing matter. But still. Even if you never studied there, you know more or less what it is, don't you? And you know that the students can hardly be called "children", even if they're known for sometimes behaving in a not too adult way...?
Posted by: AdamK | July 16, 2008 10:07 AM
See, what happened was: they met on an internet dating service.
She wanted to marry a "troll," but typed it in wrong.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 16, 2008 10:09 AM
I'm sorry Melanie Kroll had to loser her job over this. But, as I'm sure her husband can explain, misfortunes that befall you is God's way of teaching you a lesson. In this case, Mrs. Kroll might realize she's married to a crackpot.
BTW, did anyone find out if she had a nice vacation?
Posted by: negentropyeater | July 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Zeno #39
You mean Kroll has read this lying propagandist cristofacist Donahue and is parroting the same bullshit :
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1461
I guess it's now going to be their new favourite pathetic propaganda line,
"PZ hates Catholics but is in love with Muslims".
Posted by: AdamNelson | July 16, 2008 10:10 AM
Clinteas says: "I read they have 3 kids,Melanie got fired for doing nothing at all wrong other than being naive and trusting hubby to use her computer,and who of us wouldnt?"
All companies have long contracts and license agreements that very specifically say how work equipment and property can and cannot be used. Chuck (or whatever his name was, too lazy to scroll up!) should've educated himself on what was and was not allowed on his wife's work hardware, and granted it really was all his fault for sending that incredibly dumb letter, but the wife is STILL at fault for breaching the terms of a contract she undoubtedly signed at the beginning of her employment.
She should've actually read the entire document outlining IT policy, and if she didn't understand it, I'm sure her boss would've been glad to clarify the company's positions. But as it stands, she was held in contempt of an agreement that she willfully signed, by allowing (either through action or inaction) her husband access to the computer/email program.
However, I do feel terribly sorry for the wife. She made what is normally a minimal mistake in not securing her computer, and a jackass of a man amplified that mistake to the point of it costing her job.
Posted by: Christophe Thill | July 16, 2008 10:10 AM
"Wow. The article said Webster Cook was "facing suspention." Does that mean he has been suspended, or may be suspended? All this for not eating a cracker at the appropriate time!"
Suspension? You mean, like, hanging? Wow!
(joking...)
Posted by: Rhuvaughn Pynnonen | July 16, 2008 10:10 AM
PZ Myers shows more compassion in the first sentence of this latest posting than Chuck Kroll did in pages and pages of half-assed pseudo-apologies. PZ actually sounds sorry that Melanie lost her job; Chucky-Boy still hopes PZ loses his for threatening a cracker.
He needs therapy. Assuming Melanie has some authority in their marriage, she should require it.
Death threats for threatening a cracker...the mind reels at the inanity of it.
Posted by: Rev Matt | July 16, 2008 10:11 AM
I've worked at several places where I've been assigned a laptop and in each case I had to sign a piece of paper acknowledging that it was company property and I was solely responsible for it, allowing anyone else to use it was a fireable offense, and if I let someone else use it then I was liable for anything that person did with it.
Sure it sucks, but if you violate company policies there are generally consequences. I feel bad for her that she lost her job over this, but the computer was company property. It's pretty likely she would've lost her job had they found out he was using her computer regularly even without the possible felony charges.
Posted by: Jeremy | July 16, 2008 10:11 AM
I really feel sorry for this poor woman. She probably has Microsoft outlook set up so that if you click on an email link, it automatically loads Outlook and preps an email to that address. I have Outlook installed (though I never use it), and it does this if I ever accidentally click on a mailto: link.
So her douchebag husband clicks on this and writes away. I doubt Mrs. Kroll knew what truck ran over her. Clearly tragic.
PZ, maybe you could ask the company to reinstate her as long as she was taught how to properly use an email client? I'll bet you a Eucharist wafer she won't ever let that happen again.
This is one of those tragic situations where you wish things could change, but in this instance it seems that they actually could. Not to mention it might make some fundie heads explode when he actually acts more "Christian" than the dick who wrote him.
Posted by: MH | July 16, 2008 10:12 AM
If I'dd been sloppy enough to allow someone to use my work email for criminal purposes, I'd expect to get sacked. I wouldn't like it, but rules are rules. I'd probably never want to talk to the person who exploited my sloppiness ever again, though.
I do feel sympathy for Melanie and the kids. Having a spouse/father who is aggressive enough to threaten to kill people who hurt his feelings must be awful.
I still think PZ should inform the FBI about this (indeed, I would have preferred it if that's all he'd done). It should be on record that this Chuck guy has made death threats and is thus dangerous.
Posted by: AJS | July 16, 2008 10:13 AM
She should take the company to court for unfair dismissal. There is absolutely no way that anybody ever deserves to be deprived of their livelihood just for the actions of another adult which ultimately were beyond their control. That would be like punishing someone because someone else ran over a pedestrian with their stolen car.
Although, if the laptop in question was running Windows, maybe Microsoft deserve a little of the blame. My company's internal network is Linux-based. It requires a username and password just to get a computer to switch on, and every user has their own individual e-mail settings. Nobody knows anybody else's password [not even me; but I don't need to, because I am the one they call root] and we insist for everyone to log out of their machine when it is not in use. (I staged a rather graphic and close-to-the-edge demonstration of exactly why this is important, the first time someone left a machine logged in. That was also the last time it happened.)
Incidentally, we're fairly permissive with our IT policies. (How many other firms even allow employees to copy software off their workstations, let alone encourage the practice?) The last "incident" involved someone being asked to resign because he sent unsolicited pornographic e-mail offsite to someone else's work address, and somebody there complained. This was about 4 years ago. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything, but we have a bloody competent IT department here. I would suggest tentatively that draconian-ness of general IT policy varies inversely with competence of IT staff.
So, I say: Justice for Melanie! What has happened is terrible, but she should not have been fired just because her husband is a jerk and some sysadmin is too incompetent to insist on using a secure Operating System that would have prevented this from happening.
Posted by: Greg Laden | July 16, 2008 10:14 AM
I really think everyone should WRITE A LTTER/EMAIL TO 1-800-FLOWERS suggesting that Melanie should have her job back.
Seriously. Move on.
Posted by: qbsmd | July 16, 2008 10:15 AM
If he's Catholic enough to send threats over a cracker, they're probably Catholic enough to not believe in divorce.
Posted by: alan | July 16, 2008 10:15 AM
This is my first comment on crackergate although I've read it all. I've got to agree with PZ here, this is unfortunate. It's one of those unintended consequences. Yes, Mr. Kroll brought this on, but other people are hurt by his actions as well.
I don't see any of the things happening that I'd hoped for when this whole mess started. It seems that our eyes are no longer on the prize. I guess first and second, I'd hoped to see that Mr. Cook would face no consequences for what he did as we rationally were able to point out and show that it is "just a cracker" and were able to point that out to the people persecuting Mr. Cook. Finally, I'd like to know why the UCF is spending $40K a year to bring Roman Catholic mass and other religious programs onto their campus. I think Mr. Cook's protest about that was a good one.
Perhaps others have different ideas about what we should learn or accomplish here--but I feel no joy over this latest incident.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Yep. That is how it is at any company that wants to protect itself. I deal with it everyday. And everyday people ignore the fact they've signed it.
Though here it seems that she is paying the price of her husband's outstanding display of dumbfuckery.
Posted by: kryptonic | July 16, 2008 10:19 AM
From the last paragraph of ckroll's post, he seems to fantasize a lot about random terror killing. He has mental issues and should get help before he hurts someone or himself. I don't know if he can get help now because he probably just caused his family to lose their health care benefits. I feel sorry for the wife and kids.
It's still just a cracker, ckroll.
Posted by: AdamNelson | July 16, 2008 10:19 AM
"misfortunes that befall you is God's way of teaching you a lesson."
Well, d'uh. OBVIOUSLY this is a result of Original Sin, and is therefore further proof of God's existence. In fact, now the wife can fall within good Christian lifestyle guidelines as a house-wench who can fetch Chucko's beer for him, since she no longer has a job (damn those evil lubrulz for forcing women to work!)
"Does that mean he has been suspended, or may be suspended?"
The "facing suspension" bit is misleading. In cases of minor disciplinary actions on campus, generally the student is forced to face some sort of student-run advisory council (more serious crimes generally get deferred by campus security to the regional police). Said student council generally has some sort of talk with the person about their actions and how they plan to resolve themselves or the situation. Then, they are usually given token punishments such as probationary charges or something of the sort. When they say he is "facing suspension" that means that the student council, if it so chooses, can defer the problem to the dean of students if it's serious enough, who *may* suspend the student.
So in short, he is less likely "facing suspension" and is more likely facing the potential for more severe-than-usual punishment the next time he gets drunk and is caught pissing on the Chemistry building.
Posted by: matt | July 16, 2008 10:20 AM
what an apology! and by what an apology I mean /really/, it read like the guy was trying to put out a fire he started with a blanket covered in flames.
at one point he said it was a gut reaction. as one of the blue collar comics is prone to saying, "there's your sign."
think with your head, not your gut. there aren't many neurons firing down in your stomach.