…and this is a 
The Great Desecration
Category: Godlessness • Religion
Posted on: July 24, 2008 2:00 PM, by PZ Myers
It is finished.
I wonder how many of our Catholic friends have heard of the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215? This is the event where many of their important dogmas were codified, including the ideas of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, that the Eucharist was the sacrament that only properly ordained priests of the Catholic church could give, and that the Jews were a pariah people, who could hold no public office, had to pay a special Jew tax for their right to exist, and were required to wear special clothing to distinguish them from Christians. The yellow badge marking the Juden was not an invention of the Nazis, but a decree by faithful Catholics in the Middle Ages. That's an interesting juxtaposition, that a symbol of Christian exceptionalism was formalized at the same time that they formally decreed the Jews to be inferior, and a target of hatred.
That combination was useful, too. Declare something cheap, disposable, and common to be imbued with magic by the words of a priest, and the trivial becomes a powerful token to inflame the mob — why, all you have to do is declare a bit of bread to be the most powerful and desirable object in the world, and even if it isn't, you can pretend that the evil other is scheming to deprive the faithful of it. Now you could invent stories of Jews and witches taking the communion host to torture, to make Jesus suffer even more, and good Catholics would of course rise in horror to defend their salvation. None of the stories were true, of course — Jews and infidels see no power at all in those little crackers, and the idea that they were obsessing over obtaining a non-sacred, powerless, pointless relic is ludicrous — but heck, it's a cheap excuse to make accusations illustrated by cheesy woodcuts of hook-nosed Jews hammering nails into communion wafers and lurid tales of blood-spurting crackers and hosts that pulsed like and beating heart, and thereby providing a pretext to encourage massacres.
The first recorded accusation was made in 1243 at Berlitz, near Berlin. As a consequence all the Jews of Berlitz were burned on the spot, which was subsequently called Judenberg. Another famous case that took place in 1290, in Paris, was commemorated in the Church of the Rue des Billettes and in a local confraternity. In 1370 in Brussels, the charge of host desecration, long celebrated in a special fest and depicted in artistic relics in the Church of St. Gudule, led to the extermination of the Jews of the city. The case of 1337, at Deggendorf, still celebrated locally as "Deggendorf Gnad", led to a series of massacres across the region. In 1510, at Knoblauch, near Berlin, 38 Jews were executed and more expelled from Brandenburg. The alleged host desecration in 1410, at Segovia, was said to have brought about an earthquake, and as a result, the local synagogue was confiscated and leading Jews were executed; the event continues to be celebrated as a local feast of Corpus Christi. Similar accusations, resulting in extensive persecution of Jews, were brought forward in 1294, at Laa, Austria; 1298, at Röttingen, near Würzburg, and at Korneuburg, near Vienna; 1299, at Ratisbon; 1306, at St. Pölten; 1325, at Cracow; 1330, at Güstrow; 1338, at Pulkau; 1388, at Prague; 1399, at Posen; 1401, at Glogau; 1420, at Ems; 1453, at Breslau; 1478, at Passau; 1492, at Sternberg, in Mecklenburg-Schwerin; 1514, at Mittelberg, in Alsace; 1558, at Sochaczew, in Poland. The last Jew burned for stealing a host died in 1631, according to Jacques Basnage, quoting from Manasseh b. Israel. Casimir IV. of Poland (1447).
That is the true power of the cracker, this silly symbol of superstition. Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age — the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all — but the sentiment still lingers. Catholicism has been actively poisoning the minds of its practitioners with the most amazing bullshit for years, and until recently, I had no idea that a significant number of people actually believed this nonsense, or that the hatred was still simmering there, waiting for an opportunity to rise up in misplaced defense of absurdity.
All of the regular readers have seen it — thousands of mindless comments by Catholics, demanding that no harm come to a cracker. My email is melting down with swarms of insults, threats, pleas, and promises of prayers because I
Mark Sutton is representative of the majority of my email. No threats, at least, but instead he simply takes for granted an astonishing piece of insanity.
Professor Myers,
I was saddened to hear of your plans to harm our Lord Jesus Christ.
It obviously isn't the first time and it won't be the last.
I know you do not believe, but what if it truly is Jesus that you are attempting to hurt?
You are in my prayers.
You would not believe how many people are writing to me, insisting that these horrible little crackers (they look like flattened bits of styrofoam) are literally pieces of their god, and that this omnipotent being who created the universe can actually be seriously harmed by some third-rate liberal intellectual at a third-rate university (the diminution of my vast powers is also a common theme).
Jim Nicholson cranks up the crazy even more. Not many accused me of being a freemason — I've got lots that call me a Jew, which is illuminating given the history of this issue — and I cringe at the thought of a circumcised heart. But yeah, this kind of angry rant is fairly common, too.
You must be the devil himself as even he knows the power in the Holy Eucharist (don't you dare disparage the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by calling Him Who died for you a cracker!). You must be a freemason, or just a very sick man who needs healing and believe me, I will pray for your conversion. Pray you live to see that day so you can ask Him to forgive you and your uncircumcised heart. Just the mere thought of desecrating the Holy Eucharist is enough to get one into hell, but, maybe that is, for now, the horrible place you are aiming for. I dare you to read about Our Lady of Fatima and the accounts of hell as the three children saw, then, maybe you will change you sick mind. God forgive you. However, it was great that you got many people praying for your conversion since you showed the world how sick you are, and maybe God will convert your hard heart. Pity you. From a lay evangelist who prays for you and the rest of this sick world of secular humanists.
Another common theme has been the attempt to turn away the desecration of a Catholic symbol into the desecration of an Islamic symbol. Obviously, it's not desecration they find disagreeable — it's the idea that someone would offend their weird sectarian sensibilities. Here's one from Jack Isaacks that fits the mold.
Dear Professor Meyers,
If you REALLY want to do a courageous, revolutionary act, defecate publicly on a copy of the Quran.
Or do you have the cojones?
Christians won't attack you for desecrating a host, but will those wonderful cuddly peace-loving Muslims be as forbearing if you used their book for a toilet?
Well, how brave are you?
Yeah, right. Catholics won't attack me, but Muslims will. Never mind that the Catholic League demands that I be fired, thousands of Catholics write to me demanding I be kicked out of the university immediately, and that they send me death threats, both the explicit kind and the vaguely menacing kind. Let's not forget Webster Cook, who started this all by simply walking back to his seat with a cracker, and now faces censure and possible expulsion from his university. Oh, those Catholics sure are forbearing and tolerant.
And since I mentioned yesterday that I was taking my oldest son to the movies, these good Catholics have leapt to the opportunity. Since I'm not demonstrating any fear over their threats against me, well hey, let's try a new target! KJ Atkins of Bellarmine University thinks cowardly warnings against my family might be effective.
You fool, the vengeance for your sacrilege will not be . exhausted against you, but it will be carried out on your child. Wait and see.
Oh, I'm sorry, KJ. I'm only impressed by significant material concerns, and yours and other slanders against my family (I'm looking at you, Miki Tracy, the despicable person who thinks making up lies about my father might be persuasive) are not going to convince me of anything other than that religion breeds the most disgustingly vile haters in our country, and that Catholicism fits right in with the rest. I will note, however, that since Bill Donohue tried to get CAIR to join him in his crusade, I have gotten no email from outraged Muslims, over a span of time in which I've received thousands of Catholic hate mail messages.
If you want to see the deep danger of religion, you have to read this comment from Isaac.
As a Christian it is an insult for anyone to call my beliefs stupid shit. I have respected every religion and every idea for years.
Ah, what a beautiful illustration of the complete open mind — utterly undiscriminating, lacking any criteria for acceptance, simply blissfully and uncritically according every idea his full respect. Although, of course, it's also a lie: Isaac does not regard every idea as equally deserving, since he clearly considers the atheist idea that the sacraments of his faith are empty foolishness to be an outrage. Rather, what he loves is the idea that everyone else must respect his beliefs, no matter what they are, and that any disagreement is an insult. This is exactly the kind of uncritical, unskeptical, nonjudgmental idiocy all religions seek to promulgate, because they all know that if we tore off the blinders of tradition and artificiality and mindless etiquette, we'd see right through their lies. Respect every idea! Especially mine! And if you find the idea that this cracker is a god stupid, why, you must be disrespectful and no gentleman!
For even deeper inanity, let's not forget the Catholic blogs! We're talking some serious derangement there: look at Mark Shea's reaction.
I won't mince words. Myers is an evil man. And as evil men, particularly evil intellectuals, tend to be, he is also a mad man as are most of his acolytes and followers.
Myers and Co. are enmeshed in these lies because they have chosen evil. It is evil--archetypally evil--to desecrate the Eucharist. It's the sort of stuff archetypal bad guys in the movies do. It's completely unnecessary gratuitous evil.
To the Mark Shea's of the world, I would say…it's just a cracker.
I think if I were truly evil, I would have to demand that all of my acolytes be celibate, but would turn a blind eye to any sexual depravities they might commit. If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I'd drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue. If I wanted to commit world-class evil, I'd undermine efforts at family planning by the poor, especially if I could simultaneously enable the spread of deadly diseases. And if I wanted to be so evil that I would commit a devastating crime against the whole of the human race, twisting the minds of children into ignorance and hatred, I would be promoting the indoctrination of religion in children's upbringing, and fomenting hatred against anyone who dared speak out in defiance.
I'm sorry to say that I only aspire to be a teeny-tiny bit evil, and my target is a handful of virtually inedible crackers in my possession. It's not much, and all I can say in my defense is…it's a start. A very small start. I'm going to need lots and lots of people to rise up and follow suit, subjecting old, dishonest institutions of hardened dogma to our chief weapon of ridicule and deris…our two weapons of ridicule, derision and laughter…no, three weapons of ridicule, derision, laughter, and skeptici…oh, never mind. You know what I mean. Get to work.
OK, time for the anticlimax. I know some of you have proposed intricate plans for how to do horrible things to these crackers, but I repeat…it's just a cracker. I wasn't going to make any major investment of time, money, or effort in treating these dabs of unpleasantness as they deserve, because all they deserve is casual disposal. However, inspired by an old woodcut of Jews stabbing the host, I thought of a simple, quick thing to do: I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel. My apologies to those who hoped for more, but the worst I can do is show my unconcerned contempt.
By the way, I didn't want to single out just the cracker, so I nailed it to a few ripped-out pages from the Qur'an and The God Delusion. They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity's knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
It is done.
Posted by: FormerMilitary | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
Well done.
Posted by: Tucker | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
Well this is going to be epic.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:06 PM
PZ: My gin and tonic will be hoisted up in your name tonight.
Posted by: JSorrell | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
Well, if you thought the deluge of email was bad now! :)
Thanks for pointing out that nothing should be held sacred.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
Requiescat in pace, Crustum Christi.
Posted by: Brian | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Well said PZ. Wish I could think of something more to add.
Brian
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Let the games begin!!
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Hahah... I hope Seed's servers are ready for the influx of crazy that this post will bring.
Posted by: Mystic Olly | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
And yet I fail to see the remains of last nights spaghetti bolognese. Do you cower in fear of His Noodley Appendage?
I think we should be told . . .
Posted by: AJ Milne | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Very nice. This did not disappoint.
A response to a post in a previous thread, carried forward (since, y'know, I'm sure this'll be going on for a bit, anyway)...
I've been thinking about this for awhile now. I originally agreed with those saying that PZ is needlessly provoking the religious, but their batshit crazy responses tell me it isn't so needless.
Yep. Or sorta. I'd never have gone as far as 'needlessly provoking', but I sure did see it as pretty trivial, initially.
And I still do. But only in the one sense. More precisely, I was never much for or agin' it, initially. I mean, as I understood it, it started out as a snarky (and, in context, entirely appropriately snarky) riposte to the sheer nuttiness of what happened at UCF anyway. I don't think any of us even figure he even meant it terribly seriously, at first. I mean, seriously, why would anyone bother, either way? And I think if he'd actually done it two weeks ago, my reaction woulda been: oh, okay... an odd thing to do... and... ummm... why, seriously? I'm still trying to wrap my head 'round the fact that the folk taking Donohue's bait haven't thought about that, more. I mean honestly, do you really think Donohue even thought PZ meant it that seriously? Or that Donohue even cared if he did? His reaction was pure political opportunism. Somethin' he figured he could make some hay with.
But making that hay, it leads places, whether he and his followers like it or not. And the sheer lunacy of those objecting shifts things, oddly. I mean, you say you're going to do something that should be so trivially silly, and all of a sudden, there's this windbag demagogue getting all red-faced, going on and on about what a horror this is, working on whipping up the outrage, and oh my, but people are actually falling for it. And there are people trying to get people fired, and the trolls are winding up and sockpuppeting the hell out of this place, there's nuts making threats and getting their wife fired, and you get to thinking: well, y'know, yeah, okay, maybe you should do that cracker thing. Sure it's silly, sure it's trivial, but, strangely enough, it does prove a modestly significant point, in this now truly bizarre context. Which is that pushy, arrogant gasbags like Donohue and the loud but not terribly bright folk he's managed to mobilize do not get to call the shots--not here, not anywhere. They don't get to demand anything, let alone respect, from anyone else, not with an attitude like that. Death threats, huh? Demands folk be fired, huh? Endless attempts, in fact, to demand punishment and suffering for what in the end is mere expression of an opinion they don't happen to like--and yes, folks, not that it's even entirely relevant, but I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it is, all their mumbo jumbo and handwaving about mystical rites and transubtantiation notwithstanding. Same as it's always been, same old excuse for any extremism they might want it to justify.
And this is how they presume to command 'respect', is it? And is this to be the way of things: the gasbags who threaten most and who scream 'bigotry' loudest gets to say what is and what is acceptable mockery of their particular irrationality of choice? What next, will we begin prosecuting blasphemy in the west again, jail those who dare to fail to show proper respect for the currently dominant faith?
So, okay, if they want to be like that about it, I'm with him all the way. And the cracker's toast. Sure it might still seem sorta a silly thing to do, on the face of it. But it's a madness with a certain method after all.
(And the banana peel sure is a nice touch.)
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
The secret addition was a few papers from the God Delusion?
Very appropriate! I say this without an ounce of sarcasm, by the way.
Posted by: clinteas | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
PZ,you should eat your bananas before they turn brown.
Posted by: drake33 | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
+1 to PZ Myers.
Posted by: Katharine | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
Well said, PZ.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
I can't wait to hear what Richard Dawkins thinks of this. :)
Also, don't you still have a whole bunch of other crackers? What're you gonna do with them?
Posted by: Analiese | July 24, 2008 2:12 PM
Shit, pz, I hope you've got a lid on that garbage lest the cracker rise again! Great post. Ahhhhh, men....
Posted by: Alan | July 24, 2008 2:12 PM
May the Hand of God bless you as you deserve.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
I don't think anything is done at this point. I think the shitstorm is just about to start. You should really have a composting bin for all of that organic matter. Ashes to ashes and all that.
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
Oh, and PZ, don't close this thread. Let's see just how high this sucker will go.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
Nothing Sacred - reminds me of a Zen story...Bodhidharma telling the pissed off Emperor of China that "Nothing is holy"... Then there is the old:"If you meet the Buddha, Kill him" Tossing a wooden Buddha on the fire etc... all to prove that nothing should be held above "reality". Why can't we have more "religions" like that? Or better yet, none at all...
Posted by: jb | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
You don't compost your banana peels and coffee grounds? You ARE evil.....
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Now we wait for the lying press release from Bill Donohue and the deranged Catholic hordes that follow.
Good work, PZ. You used it to make a good point: No cheap, little material object should be considered sacred. Adding the pages from the "God Delusion" was a good move.
Posted by: Ranson | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Hmm. No spurting blood? Maybe the fruit peel will lose it's browning in a spontaneous healing miracle.
Posted by: Luke O'Dell | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
The God Delusion? I was on the right lines with my Origin of Species prediction, then. Nice job, PZ.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
http://www.kobrascorner.com/opine/nothing-is-sacred.php
I wrote this the other day, and because of this I greatly approve of including pages of The God Delusion. I'm sure even Prof. Dawkins will approve of the gesture (especially since PZ has already read it and there's no point in keeping it intact, right?).
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Nice to see that you threw in some pages from The God Delusion. I know it's just a book, like the Qur'an, but it's still an excellent way to demonstrate that your goal is to show that nothing is, or should be, "sacred", and not simply to piss off some extremists (although I'm sure they'll find a way to get worked up just the same).
Posted by: The Science Pundit | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
The page from The God Delusion proves to us that you are not a loyal member of the Church of Dawkinity! I immediately move for your excommunication!!!
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Cheeses Christ, PZ, you've already bogged down the server.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Now we wait for the lying press release from Bill Donohue and the deranged Catholic hordes that follow.
Good work, PZ. You used it to make a good point: No cheap, little material object should be considered sacred. Adding the pages from the "God Delusion" was a good move.
Posted by: PeteC | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Well done; the "it is finished" is a nice touch too.
But.. don't they have recycling in Morris? Paper and food waste in the trash? That's sacrilege here in the Bay Area...
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Hopefully after the howls of outrage from the godbots subside we'll see no more fourteen hundred reply threads!
Anyway, well done PZ...the picture just shows it's a "fracking" nailed cracker and some paper.
oh, and Maria (#1): There are no gods to have mercy on non-existent souls. Just thought you might like to know as you seem to be stuck in la-la land.
Martin
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Great job, PZ. I was worried that you might get carried away, but you have done exactly what was needed to be done.
Posted by: SC | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
How fitting.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Brillant PZ. Loved every word of it. You have my support.
Posted by: Draconiz | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
+1 to PZ!
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Hopefully after the howls of outrage from the godbots subside we'll see no more fourteen hundred reply threads!
Anyway, well done PZ...the picture just shows it's a "fracking" nailed cracker and some paper.
oh, and Maria (#1): There are no gods to have mercy on non-existent souls. Just thought you might like to know as you seem to be stuck in la-la land.
Martin
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
Posted by: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
We wait with bated breath to discover what trepid outrage the god-botherers will cast down upon you.
What a hollow god they serve! How delicious a treatment of their sacred relics!
Posted by: Potter | July 24, 2008 2:17 PM
You, sir, handled this perfectly! Bravo!!
Posted by: David Wegehaupt | July 24, 2008 2:17 PM
Well done... I'm glad this ordeal is over
*ignores the following 2000 comments about the damn cracker*
Posted by: Robin | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Brilliant. This is the first blog post I have literally applauded.
Posted by: freelunch | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
I wonder whether that Louisville college ever considered calling itself Torquemada University. Bellarmine would be unknown except for his treatment of Galileo. Torquemada was famous.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
TG, why do you doubt it is a consecrated host? Do you doubt his ability to get one? Do you doubt his willingness to desecrate one? You're grasping at straws.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
And it is done. Couple thousand more comments and the troll-fest will come to a close.
I'm quite sure it's unintentional but the banana peel (you know, the atheists worst nightmare!) is a wonderful bit of irony to top it off. ;P
Posted by: dave | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Yay! Splendidly anticlimactic, nicely judged. Just a bit unsure about the rusty nail, a hint of Voodoo tetanus going on there. Could be uncomfortable for those who believe in magic....
And sad to see the desecration of books, which are all special, but fair's fair.
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
The God Delusion, too. Brilliant!
Posted by: Dylan Dog | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Great article PZ!
Posted by: AndrewG | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
Thank you PZ for posting this, it is needed.
Faith inebriated, lunatics, ridiculed and mocked me as a teenager for daring to question God' existence. For several years they wasted my time and forced me to ingest prodigious fables of super heroes. I look forward to the response or rather the maunderings, of His Excellence, the CEO of the Roman Catholic Church when this news reaches him. His mental gymnastics is a treat and I have little doubt that he and his lieutenants will have no difficulty in further embarrassing themselves in the eyes of the civilized world.
Faithaholics have enjoyed power far too long and have abused it repeatedly yet they continue to demand respect. Fuck their feelings and fuck their intellectually lazy minds. I celebrate this occasion with all sane people around the planet. Screw all gods especially the sketsophrenic trio, Jesus, his Daddy and Casper from the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa.
Peace everyone, please. Man created God and no amount of violence will change that.
Andrew
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
I wonder if PZ's gonna be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of some Catholic digging through his trash trying to "rescue" the cracker.
Seriously, this is awesome entertainment.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
That Darwin and his time machine; always causing trouble.Posted by: Josh West | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
#39 It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
That's pretty much the point. 'Consecration' is meaningless drivel. Not sacred.
Bravo PZ, nice ending to this mess.
Posted by: freelunch | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
I wonder whether that Louisville college ever considered calling itself Torquemada University. Bellarmine would be unknown except for his treatment of Galileo. Torquemada was famous.
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Dawkins will undoubtedly smite you in his terrible wrath!
But thank God that's over!
(I don't really mean the "thank God" part, of course. It's just an expression.)
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Oh brilliant. Simply brilliant.
The God Delusional is a nice touch. The only thing I might have added is a page from Origins.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Good going! Justice has been done. The text's a bit too long for me to read right now so I'll be sure to read it later in depth!!! I skimmed through it and saw the mighty picture.
Unfortunately I'm sad you didn't try to make a cross out of popsicle sticks. Now THAT would've been funny.
Wait uh... w...what's the brown stuff? O_o
...coffee? PHEW
Posted by: Paul W. | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
I'm sure that will be forthcoming, just as soon as somebody provides PZ with evidence that his consecrated host was transubstantiated into the Body of the Living God.
Why does one matter without the other?
Posted by: Richard Wolford | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Beautiful, and point well taken. I would have longed for some pages of On the Origins of Species in there as well, but The God Delusion was likely more fitting, so again, beautiful.
Posted by: Quinn Martindale | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Meh...
Posted by: E.V. | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Oh no, the hand-wringing has begun.
Posted by: Greta Christina | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Father, into Your hands I commend my crumbs.
And I never again want to hear about sophisticated modern theology, and how nobody takes that magical- thinking stuff seriously anymore.
Posted by: GeoffI | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
PZ,
I hope you saved that piece of art you have created. You could sell it on eBay and give the money to a pro-science charity.
Posted by: Brian W. | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
ripping a few pages out of those books is ok, as long as the aren't completely ruined. I hate to see ANY book destroyed.
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
"TG, why do you doubt it is a consecrated host? Do you doubt his ability to get one? Do you doubt his willingness to desecrate one? You're grasping at straws."
I am a man of science. I want proof, not claims based on authority.
Posted by: bad Jim | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Holey crackers!
Posted by: SteadyEddy | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Excellent write-up as always PZ! There are some un-rational people who might accuse you of copying something that has already been done, but I can think of nothing more fitting than to nail that ort of stale tasteless bread to some processed wood fiber. Well done PZ!
Posted by: F. Jardim | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Amazing writing in your prelude to the main event. A+ as far as I am concerned.
As for the festivities themselves, I liked the casual utilitarianism of the desecration. Adding a page from The god Delusion was also thoughtful and helps showing that the truly unbiased, rational mind doesn't revere icons, even if their meaning agrees with their own conclusions. I think a page from 'Origin of the Species' would have been FAr more effective in rubbing on the faces of fundies how we do not hold Evolution or science as a religion.
Posted by: Physicalist | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
He desecrated The God Delusion??? Forget excommunication; BURN HIM!!!!!
Posted by: Jon | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Nice touch there with the God Delusion. That should sufficiently perplex them.
It won't, of course.
Posted by: Rob | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
@TG: I seem to recall others asking how to prove it's consecrated, and you refuse to say how.
PZ, I'm a little disappointed in what you did. I think you gave too much consideration. IMHO, you should've forgone the nail and just tossed it all in the garbage.
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
Can't you hear the little jeebus cracker screaming?
That's the giveaway there, innit?
Posted by: Josh West | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
#39 It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
That's pretty much the point. 'Consecration' is meaningless drivel. Not sacred.
Bravo PZ, nice ending to this mess.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
TG sez:
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
Tell you what, TG. If you can pick a consecrated host out of a lineup of unconsecrated ones, I'll concede that your question is relevant, and I'll ask PZ to provide proof of consecration. Sound fair?
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
Dawkins will undoubtedly smite you in his terrible wrath!
But thank God that's over!
(I don't really mean the "thank God" part, of course. It's just an expression.)
Posted by: Quinn Martindale | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
It's weird, but the destroying of books disturbs me regardless of their sacred status.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
Now if we could just make the rest of the religious crackers in the country go away...
Posted by: Philboid | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
PZ, you nailed it.
Posted by: BluesBassist | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
Bravo! Not bad for a "third rate" intellectual.
Posted by: Kawa | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
* applauds *
Posted by: Shygetz | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
While it does kinda bother me that you destroyed two perfectly servicable books instead of giving them to people who could read them (not sacreligious, just not cool) I found the conclusion (if it truly is such) to be suitably anti-climactic, which is exactly what the disposal of a cracker should be.
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
TG #39:
Can't you see the blood and ichor oozing from the stabbed host?
Wait...
That's because there's no difference between a fracking cracker and a consecrated host. (mumble mumble Hoc est corpus christi mumble mumble [nice ass on that choirboy] mumble mumble)
Why don't you use your amazing christo-powers to discern the cracker's consecrated nature?
Martin
Posted by: John C. Randolph | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
PZ,
This is one of the finer essays you've written. Thanks for the history lesson, and well done.
-jcr
Posted by: Slen | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
stupid simple cracker
May is decompose like the trash it is.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
...Wait a sec guys. Where's the blood?! I thought they said there was a guy that had a flood of blood, and that jews had stains of blood coming out of there! HEY!
Could it be that it's... it's just a tasteless sheet of paper? Oh no.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
I wonder if PZ's gonna be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of some Catholic digging through his trash trying to "rescue" the cracker.
Seriously, this is awesome entertainment.
Posted by: Jack of Knives | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
The picture makes it a bit grittier than it should seem, but...
I liked the conclusion best. It's a good take home message.
Posted by: God | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
God damn it, PZ. Now I have to start the universe all over again.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
Nice post. I really liked your last paragraph.
Posted by: blf | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
I suspect Teh Big Oxidized Spike is deeply offended at this disgraceful treatment of a rusty nail, and its followers will send a congregration of angry screws after you. Pay attention as to whether they are normal, Phillips, Robinson, of other types of screws, this is a matter of great division in Spikemythical, with much flaking of the rust.
Posted by: Jesus, called Christ | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
As the dead Jew that Catholics claim to worship, I would just like to say that I entirely approve.
Posted by: Slinky | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
Excellent, i loved the inclusion of the god delusion pages, i think they helped prove a point.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
PZ, you have a typo!
Posted by: John | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
GULP - The God Delusion...in the trash?!
You my friend, have Large Brass Balls.
You may need a wheelbarrow to carry those in...
(Yes - a Bill Hicks reference)
Wow.
I stand here shaken (not stirred)
Bravo, PZ, Bravo!
Posted by: F. Jardim | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Amazing writing in your prelude to the main event. A+ as far as I am concerned.
As for the festivities themselves, I liked the casual utilitarianism of the desecration. Adding a page from The god Delusion was also thoughtful and helps showing that the truly unbiased, rational mind doesn't revere icons, even if their meaning agrees with their own conclusions. I think a page from 'Origin of the Species' would have been FAr more effective in rubbing on the faces of fundies how we do not hold Evolution or science as a religion.
Posted by: Jesse | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Good blog. The preamble was perfect.
I wouldn't have bothered with the nail, although the page of the God Delusion was a nice touch. Unconcerned throwing out with the trash. Perfect.
Good luck wading through the hate mail.
Posted by: Patricia | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Standing ovation!
Bravo PZ! Bravo!
Posted by: S. Fisher | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Brace yourself PZ. I've been reading your blog for several years (since sometime in '05) and this seems to be some sort of culminating event. I think you've definetly got the attention of the worlds Godbotherers now. It's been fun, and will continue to be fun to watch your antics. Changing the world one post at a time.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
TG,
Surely Catholics will be able to tell if the wafer is consecrated or not. In fact this whole thing has been about just that claim, that there is a difference. Well if there is, Catholics presumably will be able to tell. After all if that wafer really is the body of Christ it will not be the same as just an ordinary wafer.
So come Catholics, tell us. Is that wafer consecrated or not ?
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Crucified again ;)
What's this thread (and/or follow-ups) going to, 5000 comments?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Michael Hogan | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
I'm an atheist and think religious beliefs are stupid but I wish you hadn't done this. It will just inflame them. It would have been better to do nothing and let their own intolerant words condemn them. The Catholics have revealed their true nature.
Love your web site otherwise.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Now if we could just make the rest of the religious crackers in the country go away...
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
PZ, you have a typo!
Posted by: bullfighter | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
I hope your trash is picked up before the third day. I wouldn't want to have a holey cracker rise from my trash can and walk around my house.
Posted by: Vivek | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
The God Delusion is about what we don't believe; the Eucharist and the Koran are symbols of what other people do believe. I would've preferred a genuine work of science to be among the desecratees.
Vivek
Posted by: God | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
God damn it, PZ. Now I have to start the universe all over again.
Posted by: John | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
GULP - The God Delusion...in the trash?!
You my friend, have Large Brass Balls.
You may need a wheelbarrow to carry those in...
(Yes - a Bill Hicks reference)
Wow.
I stand here shaken (not stirred)
Bravo, PZ, Bravo!
Posted by: Reginald | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE DEFILED THE GREAT TENANT OF MY FAITH! I WILL NOW PRAY TO MY GOD:
OH MIGHTY AND MERCIFUL BAZELKESH, FORGIVE THIS MAN FOR COMBINING COFFEE GROUNDS WITH YOUR SACRED 'SPOTTILY BROWNED BANANA PEELS' HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
I'm sure that will be forthcoming, just as soon as somebody provides PZ with evidence that his consecrated host was transubstantiated into the Body of the Living God.
Why does one matter without the other?
++++++++++++
No desecration would have taken place were the host not consecrated, and thus no Catholic would even bother to notice. Yet, PZ claims the host was consecrated. Let him prove hi8s claim. Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.
So, where's the proof, or is this place not about science after all?
Posted by: charfles | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Woot finally. The God Delusion desecration was predicted (Prophesied?) by a few people in the earlier threads.
Posted by: S. Fisher | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Brace yourself PZ. I've been reading your blog for several years (since sometime in '05) and this seems to be some sort of culminating event. I think you've definetly got the attention of the worlds' Godbotherers now. It's been fun, and will continue to be fun to watch your antics. Changing the world one post at a time.
Posted by: Bryan | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
This is so G-rated compared to all of the atrocities done in the name of Jesus.
I applaud your family values PZ!
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Brilliant. I especially liked the abuse of the book by Dawkins, just to prove atheists consider nothing to be sacred.
Also brilliant was the massive evidence for the idea that Catholics are the most immoral people in human history, a problem that obviously continues today.
Well done, sir.
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
TG #39:
Can't you see the blood and ichor oozing from the stabbed host?
Wait...
That's because there's no difference between a fracking cracker and a consecrated host. (mumble mumble Hoc est corpus christi mumble mumble [nice ass on that choirboy] mumble mumble)
Why don't you use your amazing christo-powers to discern the cracker's consecrated nature?
Martin
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Wow! That's got to be the quickest trip to 100 comments ever!
Posted by: Andrew W | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Well done PZ.
Posted by: Reginald | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE DEFILED THE GREAT TENANT OF MY FAITH! I WILL NOW PRAY TO MY GOD:
OH MIGHTY AND MERCIFUL BAZELKESH, FORGIVE THIS MAN FOR COMBINING COFFEE GROUNDS WITH YOUR SACRED 'SPOTTILY BROWNED BANANA PEELS' HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
Posted by: fireant451 | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Some may hoist a G&T, but I shall have a Rusty Nail tonight in PZ's honor.
Posted by: Viscount | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Great post PZ! It was exactly what was needed. Thanks for going through with this and not caving to the threats.
Incidentally, how did you manage to get the consecrated host? Did someone sneak it out of Mass or did you find a disgruntled ex-priest to Jesusize it for you?
Posted by: DB | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Whatever your attitude towards the Host may be - your actions and bragging about them display a hatred and utter disdain for those who believe differently from you.
I understand that YOU don't hold it sacred. That's fine, if you don't believe, you don't believe and that's your business. That is, it's between you and God (and if you don't believe in Him, also your business).
The fact is, the Host IS sacred to millions if not billions of people. Your actions reveal a deep seated hatred, contempt and disdain for those people and their beliefs. I guess nothing matters to you except what YOU think, how YOU feel and what YOU want. Must be nice being god on You Planet.
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Sorry for the double post, but I got a message telling me my comment had been aborted. (Sorry, Catholics, for using that terrible word.)
I assume the double post is a miracle!
Posted by: Brian | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Well, it's somewhat of an anticlimax for sure. No daylight instantly turning to night, no curtains ripping, no blood gushing, ground shaking...
I guess God either doesn't give a shit about crackers, Q'urans and mindless followers or perhaps...
Man made up the whole God thing.
hmmm
Either way, god doesn't give a shit. Live life, enjoy your family and friends and show respect to your fellow man/woman and not to crackers and silly beliefs.
Posted by: RM | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
That was beautifully done.
Posted by: Greta Christina | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Oh, P.S.: I just want to say how sorry I am for everything you've been through with this, PZ. You took one for the team. Thanks, dude.
(And I also want to say that, when I started my initial comment, the comments were at 7, and yet mine came in at #61. Fracking hilarious.)
Posted by: Autumn | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Given that the picture was below the fold, as well as the length of the post, any people claiming to be outraged about it are obviously going to great lengths to find images which offend them. How sick is someone who really, really needs to be angry all the time?
Posted by: Moses | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Yeah!
Posted by: Adam | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Don't let the bastards grind you down
Posted by: Reed Braden | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Wooo! Carnage!
Posted by: Gene Goldring | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
"That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind"
Posted by: Katharine | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Vivek -
Science is not religion.
Posted by: BaldySlaphead | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Congratulations PZ; you made the point even more forcefully than I had hoped by treating this whole preposterous affair with the casual contempt it so rightly deserved. The God Delusion was a great touch!
Hope the fuckwits leave you alone now.
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell, but you have chosen to be. hahahahahaha
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
The books I destroyed were ones that I had duplicate copies of -- I've actually got several other copies of The God Delusion still. I think Richard will forgive me. In fact, he might join me in encouraging all of you to go buy a second copy so you can desecrate your first.
Nobody is going to be going through my garbage. The date was picked intentionally to be after the weekly garbage pickup here. I suppose some Catholic crazies could head out to bless the Morris landfill, if they want.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Argh, sorry for the double post, I see the server is already toasted. I'm sure PZ's overlords at Scienceblogs are just thrilled. But boy has this ever been worth it.
Posted by: Wayne Walker | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
As a worshiper of the Great Spotted Banana, I will express a modicum of outrage at 4pm, over tea. Followed by a nap.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Blessed be the holy evolution, PZ did not desecrate the holy Origin.
Had he violated my holy religion, vengeance would follow (you know I'm kidding, right)?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
May God forgive you.
Posted by: Parker | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
Fantastic ending to an embarrassing display of MIddle Age irrationality and sickening idiocy.
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
Good one. Nice touch by adding in Dawkin's book.
Posted by: Honna | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
I was starting to get bored today.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
PZ,you should eat your bananas before they turn brown.
No way! Bananas have to be brown to taste right. Chiquita says so!
Fabulous post, PZ. Very well-written and thought out.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
I can't desecrate my first copy of The God Delusion - Professor Dawkins consecrated it with his signature.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
Beautiful. Elegant. Poignant. Thought-provoking. A glass raised to you, my friend.
And, a request to the rest of my atheist friends here. We all know the "righteous" will come here bellowing. I suggest we sit back, and quietly let them, in our own form of silent protest. I'd love nothing more than to let this thread fill up with nothing but hate-filled vitriol from the catholics, reinforcing PZ's post. Let it fill with the complaints and screeches of those who don't get the point. I myself will contribute not one more word to this matter, and although I would never insist that you do the same, I think it would be great to just sit back and let it sink in... silently.
CE
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell, but you have chosen to be. hahahahahaha you are not posting my comment, huh....where's your son tonite?
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
TG's got a point and no logic driven being can deny that! We need proof it was consecrated. But unfortunately that proof will only be the word of the guy/girl that got it from him. Annecdotes aren't great as we point out to the silly christians/various fanatics. I doubt they let people videotape masses.
Guess for that one we'll just have to take it on... gasp... faith. Or start over and try to sneak camera proofs!
Posted by: Geoff | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
I would like to personally thank Dr. Myers for not desecrating spaghetti or pasta of any kind.
His holyness the FSM is pleased.
Posted by: rb | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
sorry, but the Koran does not look like an official Koran it looks like a translated version, which would diminish its sacredness.
Posted by: fireant451 | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
Some may hoist a G&T, but I shall have a Rusty Nail tonight in PZ's honor.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
TG, if you were actually a man of science you would never demand proof of anything. It is impossible to prove anything outside of mathematics and formal logic. Scientists deal in evidence. It is clearly a host. PZ is clearly capable of getting a host from his blog horde. PZ is clearly unconcerned with desecrating a consecrated host. Only extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Without evidence to the contrary there is no evidence to doubt his claim.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Just a thought to all the people wishing for God to Punish PZ - according to your shtick, all you have to do is "not believe" to go to hell, so what's the big deal about poking a hole in the bread wafer? Doesn't really add anything to the imagined tortures that were already imagined to be waiting in some imaginary after life...
Posted by: PaulT, | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
As an ex-catholic, just let me add that whatever you have done to that cracker, it is not nearly evil as what those priests did to those children for so many years.
Posted by: thundergunn | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Well done! I'm going to raise a glass of Laphroaig in toast, and munch on some cheese and 'crackers'.
Posted by: Brian W. | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Vivek, I think that is a good point. Oh well.
BTW, an Elder Scrolls fan?
Posted by: Erik | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
I will not stand for the desecration of the God Delusion. May science have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Beautiful!
Sagan, Feynman, Dawkins, Aasimov... All have inspired me at one point or another. It may be that you are not such a "rockstar" as them, but now it is your turn to inspire, PZ.
Thanks. Well done!
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
He won't, he's always pissed off. Sour guy, that G fellow.Posted by: Honna | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
I was starting to get bored today.
Posted by: razib | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
if you mean germany as a catholic nation 70 years ago, that's wrong, germany was (is) majority protestant (more then than now, as more secular germans have protestant than catholic background). as for the muslim vs.catholic comparison, i think the point is that the catholic league wants to fire you, the muslim league would want to set you on fire :-) that's a difference between obnoxiousness and savagery.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Nothing is sacred, nothing I say! I'm going to set my browser to your web site, then drive a nail through my monitor. That will show you who's serious.
Posted by: Jason W | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
The pages make me a little sad, but I recognize I'm pretty irrational when it comes to books. Took me the better part of the first year of college to be willing even to write notes in a textbook.
Posted by: mr_p | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Bravo.
But why a rusty nail? I thought it took wooden stakes or silver bullets to kill the undead?
A reply to a comment on a prior post who compared this to destroying a family heirloom or something to that effect, These things are mass produced by the thousands, if not more everyday. It was by no means a rare or one of a kind item. No catholic had to forgo communion because of a shortage of crackers.
When everything becomes sacred, then nothing is.
Anyway, the world seems to not have ended. Everyone as you were.
Posted by: DaveX | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Absolutely perfect, PZ-- glad to see you did this right. I also appreciate the historical leadup, which was very interesting.
Gotta wonder, though... how long before some nutjob sees the face of Jebus in the coffee stains?
Posted by: Tom Morris | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
A sacred cracker gets crucified. Now only a few weeks filled with crazy zealots and concern trolls.
Posted by: raven | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
What sort of morons name a university after a torturer who condemned Giordano Bruno to burn at the stake and almost torched Galileo. Both for thinking that the earth orbits the sun. Must be for the Catholics who are desperately homesick for the middle ages.
Posted by: Michael | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
I can't wait to hear what Richard Dawkins thinks of this. :)
Dawkins would pad PZ on the back saying job well done you showed how science disproved the wafer being God. And since you got some bad responses it clearly justifies you in provoking such anger in the first place. Your such a martyr for the militant atheist cause which is a movement to wipe out religion all together. Oh that was also a lovely picture of the Quran I wish I could hang that up on my wall.
People with common sense just shake their heads, them militant atheists are like little kids fighting on a playground or in an alley somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if someone burns PZ picture...lol
Posted by: Kylgar | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Ah, well said and well played.
It is, after all, *just* a cracker.
...and *just* paper.
...and *just* a banana
(the latter of which, I have had and will have, no nightmares regarding, I'd like to add)
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
#133: You might be right about that, PZ.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Wow. I've never considered myself an acolyte of yours PZ (I just happen to also be a liberal atheist who's prone to ranting at stupidity), but I might have to become one now.
This little dénouement of yours, including the Judge Jones-esque preamble on the history of host desecration, was fitting, tactful, and if I may, somewhat graceful. No bloodthirsty foaming at the mouth like the goddies hoped for ("He hates the cracker! More proof of God's love!"), no disgusting freak show antics, but a simple statement of our intent as activist atheists: toss those sacred relics out with the rest of the things we no longer need. Bye-bye to gods, be they deities or Dawkinses or Darwinses.
I was wondering if you'd have the guts to toss out The God Delusion, though. We Darwinist atheists invented Hitler, you know.
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell. But you are a good candidate...hahahaha
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Kind of a waste of a rusty nail, if you ask me.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
I do like the anti-climax. Hell, one could even argue that the nail was a fitting tribute to Xian superstition.
It's diplomatic (and safer--which should be aimed for) to "violate" various supposedly sacred texts.
By the way, though, I don't know if a Quran in English really counts. The "real Quran" is believed to be only the Arabic version. Not that some Muslims wouldn't be offended by "violating" an English translation, it's just that the "real offense" would probably require the original Arabic.
Just saying.
I'm certainly not suggesting a re-do with an Arabic version, of course. That, too, is a silly superstition.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Ken | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Good work PZ! It has been fun to see just how seriously these religious nuts take their religion. I would love to see any of them justify their reactions using their own holy book. As a recovering christian I would especially love to hear how they think their Jesus would react to this. I am fairly certain they will not find passages where Jesus commanded people to threaten someone or their family with physical harm. Again, the whole episode has shown the fundie true colors.
Posted by: Greg | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Well done. As far as the lack of Muslim complaints go, Zizek noted that European Muslims found that they allies were atheists after the Danish comic controversy.
Posted by: Ticktockman | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
So now, evidently, you've harmed (and caffeinated) Jesus. I've been wondering which *part* of Jesus, exactly has been harmed; which blessed bodily bit of flesh is the cracker. Since dogmatically speaking, Jesus is whole and eternal and all that in Heaven, it must be some part of his allegedly sinless flesh that didn't make the trip, perhaps some part of the, er, Holy of Holies separated at a young age.
Just *picture* it, my Catholic friends, chewing over that bit as it transubstantiates in your gullet. Holy indeed.
-TTm
Posted by: MicroZealous | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
So, will Dawkins now show stigmata? I'm confused.
Also, why are some people so eager to see this end? This is great entertainment for a long, hot summer.
May Thor forgive you all, then torture you.
Peace and Love ;
Posted by: Andrew Cramb | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Well done PZ. I can't imagine a more appropriate post.
BRAVO!!!
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
How did you manage to get a nail *through* one of those brittle crackers? I would expect it to simply break...
Perhaps I should repeat the experiment. You know, for science and stuff.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
Oh, no, link didn't work!
Chiquita song
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised.
Myers, I had hoped you would prevent you perverted desire from taking hold but you gave in. I still hold out hope for you somehow despite this.
Posted by: Hilary | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
Nothings sacred are you nuts? Every sperm is sacred, especially mine! I give each one a name and would provide them with crackers but thy have no mouths and as such eating (and screaming) are right out.
Posted by: Charades | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
@ #151: Oh, please.
*applauds PZ's brilliant blasphemy* Great job!
Pax Nabisco, people!
Posted by: Nick Winnick | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
From V for Vendetta:
Finch explains to Party leader Adam Susan the transcript of a recording made as V assassinates Archbishop Tony Lilliman.
Mr. Finch: There's something that sounds like "Kill me sentiment"... just gibberish... and then they talk about Communion and the Communion Wafer...There's the word "Transubstantiation": That's the miracle of Transubstantiation when the wafer transforms into the Body of Christ. Catholic concept originally. There, now listen to this...
V (on tape): And at the moment this enters your mouth it becomes the flesh of the Saviour?
Archbishop Lilliman (on tape): Yes. Yes. Look, please...
V (on tape): And whatever it is made of now, it will become the Body of Christ?
Archbishop Lilliman (on tape): Yes. Whatever it is now. Whatever.
V (on tape): I want you to swallow it.
Mr. Finch: And then there's a funny little human noise. And then there's just Beethoven's Fifth. End of tape. We've just had the Path reports through. The Bishop was poisoned. The Host was full of cyanide. And do you know what? When it reached his abdomen it was still cyanide.
Posted by: raven | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
What sort of morons name a university after a torturer who condemned Giordano Bruno to burn at the stake and almost torched Galileo. Both for thinking that the earth orbits the sun. Must be for the Catholics who are desperately homesick for the middle ages.
Posted by: very clever | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Dear Mr. Meyers,
I don't think you can claim unconcerned contempt for the host with the treatment that you've given it. Well, perhaps contempt, but not a lack of concern. Where did you find this rusty nail that you drove through the crotch of this jesus cracker? If you had to go searching for a rusty nail for just this purpose, your claim to a lack of concern loses its force. If you happen to have rusty nails sitting about, why?
As for desecration, there are many options you could have entertained, yet you chose to make a minor spectacle. You could have, as a colleague of mine suggests, painted it pink and placed it in a urinal in a church; you could have nailed it to a tree, or you could even have chosen to ignore it completely... Why the minor spectacle?
But seriously, the coffee and banana are a nice touch.
Posted by: Rodney Trotter | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Still haven't made my mind up about this. As an atheist (Russell agnostic technically) I don't respect crazy beliefs that tradition says we should; but there is a level of provocation here I feel slightly uncomfortable about.
I've been trying to think of a suitable analogy - the closest I got was taking a sacred Hindu cow and making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple. Does that not make you feel slightly strange?
Posted by: adam | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Quote from
http://markshea.blogspot.com/
Repeatedly tried to get Myers to verify the "death threat" bit, but was shouted down by the throngs of Myers cultists who took the claim on faith
Oh the irony
Posted by: Hilary | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Nothings sacred are you nuts? Every sperm is sacred, especially mine! I give each one a name and would provide them with crackers but thy have no mouths and as such eating (and screaming) are right out.
Posted by: rob | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Mark: Eucharist!
Jack: Cojones!
KJ: Sacrilege!
PZ: It's only a cracker.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Except for the odd spaghetti and banana worshipers, I'm not seeing a lot of god-bots posting on this thread yet.
Is the infestation over?
Posted by: aiabx | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Well done, PZ. That's a history lesson worth learning there.
Posted by: No One of Consequence | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
It would not surprise me in the least to find out that a group of Catholics would go through PZ's trash, or even to the local dump to search for the Eucharist and then take it back to a church, douse it in "Holy Water" and then give it a "proper" burial.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
*claps*
Posted by: Gary Hilson | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
You rock.
Posted by: Epinephrine | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Bwahaha.... if there were any way of proving that a host had been consecrated, it would lend at least some weight to the argument that it is special. But there isn't. All the "accidents" of the wee wafer are the same. There can't be proof, because there is no transubstatiation.
Posted by: tsig | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Ite missa est.
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
I knew the first thing that would happen is that the loons would claim it is a fake cracker. The one I chose to photograph is one that the sender actually provided video documentation of where it came from.
Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version.
Posted by: skyblue | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
We're going to have to demand that the St. Paul police increase security and put a cordon around these nasty "Catholics" who say they're coming to the city to worship their gods at the RNC convention. They've already made numerous threats of violence and death to local residents. We can't have them wandering among the public.
Posted by: Aden B | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Excellently done, PZ.
Posted by: Randy | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Well said, of course, and AJ Milne @ #12 - also well said. Right to the crux of the matter, I'd say.
A little less seriously, I was saddened to find that PZ's heart is not only uncircumsized, but hard as well. Not just the arteries from all the filthy things we're all sure an eeeevil man like him does to his own body, but the entire heart. That's unfortunate.
As for myself, I must admit to a bit of ambivalence about being called an acolyte. On the one hand, no one has ever called me that before and it sort of has a nice ring to it - on the other hand I get the sneaky feeling mark Shea didn't mean it in a very nice way.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Analogies? Which crazy one were you again? There's so many we lost track.Posted by: Clock | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
The "surprise entry" was pages from the God Delusion? Brilliant! Very impressive show, PZ. Well played.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
*claps*
Posted by: Reed Braden | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Wooo! Carnage!
Posted by: James | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
I love it! This thread will go to infinity three times over!
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell. But you are a good candidate...hahahaha
Posted by: zer0 | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Well said.
Posted by: Canuck | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Well, before this thread gets to the thousands, let me just say that I'm very curious to see how long it takes for the bloviating Donohue to issue another press release, how long it takes for the hordes of believers to register their outrage, and how long before the first Muslim shows up. I think this may draw one into the fray. But we await with bated breath.
Posted by: Joe Cracker | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
The Donahues will have a big problem here. There is no way for them to prove that the cracker was consecrated.
I DARE THEM TO PROVE THAT THE NAILED CRACKER IS JESUS!
You really nailed it, PZ!
Posted by: MT | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Bravo PZ!
The anti-climax is genius. This post reads, from top to bottom, like one of your brilliant science posts that attracted me to this site in the first place.
No ranting or vulgarities that would prevent sensitive souls from reading it or make it inappropriate for sharing with children - just a recitation of historical facts and logic conclusions.
This is the art of teaching, in the finest sense of the word.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Well done with the documentation PZ. That is more evidence then we'll ever get for any recognized "miracle" by the church.
Posted by: idahovic | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
This is such a enlightening and fun post it ought to be illegal. Oh, wait...
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Ordinarily, I would agree, but a Catholic (in another thread) asserted that:
Me, I've argued that desecration of crackers is impossible anyway, but no one listens to me.
Posted by: kb9aln | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Excellent.
PZ, you continue to get my respect for your lucid treatment of the issue.
All the best to you and yours.
Posted by: Yoo | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Seeing what Catholics have actually said to PZ, I have a hard time believing my eyes when I read a lot of Christians saying that he's the one that needs to get a grip. Threatening to disrespect a single wafer among trillions (probably an underestimate by a few orders of magnitudes) versus death threats? And there are people who actually consider the former a more serious offense? I can only hope that such people will be able to learn basic human decency that is common to most of humanity, instead of clinging to their religious faith used to justify horrendous things.
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
How did you manage to get a nail *through* one of those brittle crackers? I would expect it to simply break...
Perhaps I should repeat the experiment. You know, for science and stuff.
Posted by: Kim | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Well done PZ. At least you are consistent, and it is good that you treat Evangelical Atheism the same way as Evangelical Catholicism........
Posted by: Jason W | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
The pages make me a little sad, but I recognize I'm pretty irrational when it comes to books. Took me the better part of the first year of college to be willing even to write notes in a textbook.
Posted by: Don O'Treply | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
what - no Velveeta® on this cracker? And I was hoping for a recipe for Nacho Cheesus.
At any rate, PZ, you've done the world (another) favour by pointing out how vile the Catholic "religion" really is. Truly disgusting, the lot of them.
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised.
Myers, I had hoped you would prevent you perverted desire from taking hold but you gave in. I still hold out hope for you somehow despite this.
Posted by: anevilmeme | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
PZ I have officially added you to my list of heros!
Posted by: K | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
PZ totally PWND Jesus
Posted by: Andrew Cramb | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Well done PZ. I can't imagine a more appropriate post.
BRAVO!!!
Posted by: Nick | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
I've been reading your blog for a while but this is my first comment. I must say, this is one of the finest pieces of expression I've seen on the topic and is a marvelous example of how to respond to religious fanatics with both class and witticism.
Bravo!
Posted by: MT | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Bravo PZ!
The anti-climax is genius. This post reads, from top to bottom, like one of your brilliant science posts that attracted me to this site in the first place.
No ranting or vulgarities that would prevent sensitive souls from reading it or make it inappropriate for sharing with children - just a recitation of historical facts and logic conclusions.
This is the art of teaching, in the finest sense of the word.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
"making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple. Does that not make you feel slightly strange?"
Poor analogy only in that this wasn't done outside a mosque or church (as far as we know).
Taking pictures of the steak and posting them on a blog would be more like it.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Celtic_Evolution (#144) wrote:
Excellent suggestion. I will try my best to not respond to the Catholic insanity that's sure to come.
I hope the Catholics who come here read PZ's excellent summary of Catholic atrocities.
Catholics don't throw people in gas chambers anymore, and they no longer murder people who refuse to eat crackers, but this cracker incident proves beyond any doubt Catholics are still the most immoral people in human history.
Posted by: John Swindle | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Wonderful. Appropriate. Well considered. Beautifully stated. Highly moral.
Exactly what I would've said if I were articulate enough to do so.
And you even included a Python reference.
Today, PZ, you are the King of Blogdom.
Posted by: Preston | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Cool. It is, indeed, just a cracker.
And I'm glad you included some pages from the God Delusion, to emphasize the idiocy of holding ANYTHING sacred.
Posted by: Leukocyte | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
[Yawn]... I can't wait for this to die down and go away. I stay away from church so I can think about things that actually matter without having to deal with the crazies. Now the crazies are all over my favorite blog. Can we please cleanse our palate with some more blogging about developmental biology papers? Everyone knows that jargon-laden research papers are to fundamentalists as sunlight is to vampires.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Now, if only there were a true account of the time wasted over a single piece of baked wheat paste.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: No One of Consequence | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
[poe]
Look at the picture closely. I'm sure there is a Dilbert cartoon in the trash as well. You can just see the corner of it underneath the book.
Alert the Dilbots!!!!
[/poe]
Posted by: Pablo | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
And, whereas sexual abuse is certainly the pinnacle of it, others, such as myself, were abused in other ways. For example, my second grade teacher, Sister Claire Marie Meyer never hesitated to hit us for doing bad things, like coloring outside the lines in art class. She would hit us with whatever she had conveniently in her hand, which could be a ruler, or the handle of a scissors. If she didn't have anything in her hand, she would just turn around her big fat nun ring and slap us upside the back of the head with the stone.
Again, we were in second grade. Find your nearest 8 year old and start whacking them over the head with solid objects.
Talk about a coward.
But at least she never desicrated a host, right?
Posted by: JT Eberhard | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Good riddance. Well done Dr. Myers. You are appropriately brave, and your arguments are sensible and well-written.
Tonight, we shall toast your name in Springfield.
JT
Posted by: Kim | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Well done PZ. At least you are consistent, and it is good that you treat Evangelical Atheism the same way as Evangelical Catholicism........
Posted by: stevogvsu | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
PZ,
This night I will drink (copiously) and have sinful vigorous sex in your honor.
Posted by: Mike B | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Well done PZ; it proves that atheists have more compassion and forgiveness than all the religions combined.
Posted by: llewelly | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Uhh... Is there a weird sect of Catholicism which circumcises the heart?Posted by: DaveH | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
PZ MYERS WILL DIE...eventually, and, emmm...that will be the end of it for him, like everyone else. Personally, if I'm still around at the time, I will mourn the passing of a great educator. Slainte mha!
Posted by: Ken E. | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
I've been following this a bit but, I'm sorry, religion just isn't worth all this effort.
Posted by: HumanisticJones | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
I have to say, I think the high point of all of this was the pages from TGD in the trash with everything else. One could have attempted to hamstring your argument of holding nothing sacred by claiming that you can dish it out, but not take it. However, I think that it would have been more impacting if you had done this with Origin of Species... you know... since we Atheists apparently worship Darwin.
Bravo for the wonderful post before that unsurprisingly anti-climactic picture of trash in a trash can.
Posted by: OneMadClown | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Bravo, Professor.
Posted by: SC | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
I wouldn't mind one of those, if they're just sitting around. :)
Posted by: GAtheist | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Funny how Donohue threatened to tell CAIR that PZ was going to desecrate a Koran when it was his band of cracker crusaders that were the ones demanding PZ do it...
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: Preston | July 24, 2008 2:48 PM
Cool. It is, indeed, just a cracker.
And I'm glad you included some pages from the God Delusion, to emphasize the idiocy of holding ANYTHING sacred.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Amazingly well put.
Now, hopefully, sanity will return here.....maybe with the help of a ban hammer.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: unicow | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Wonderful post. Wonderful desecration.
Can we talk about cephalopods now?
Posted by: gir | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Zombie jebus cracker will eat your brains.
Posted by: Bryan | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Pete Rooke #221
"And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised."
And the conceit of the faithful continues...
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: arensb | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
I see no response yet from either Bill Donohue (d/b/a the Catholic League) or Richard Dawkins.
Anyone wanna bet which one has more important things to do than comment on this, like wash the dog, and which one will throw a tantrum as soon as he recovers from the vapors?
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
You know what would be nice is a substantive post right about now.
This whole cracker business is too meaningless, and I hope that it will die down soon. It's hard to believe that either side can invest as many electrons to this business as they have.
Something meaningful on this blog would be most welcome right now.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
Jesus?
Jesus!?
JESUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!
Posted by: Kent | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
Alah Akbar alert
This website link will be given to all the radical jihadis on youtube. You wanted attention so now you will get it.
Second rate, anybody can come university attention seeker will now get attention from the "religion of peace"
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Fuck. A nail through a cracker is very mild in comparison with the
thingspeople the Catholics were fond of putting them through. I don't think Bruno and Vanini appreciated the sharp metal objects.Here's a short list of things which are not goddamned crackers.
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: Snark | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Well done! My salutations.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: JustaTech | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Oh no PZ! Now the librarians will be after you. Nancy Pearl will lead them in their charge on you and terrify you with their "sushing action". Lo, feel the ground tremble! *Much humor* Seriously, good job.
Posted by: Morris | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Thanks for your enlighting us.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: waldteufel | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Thanks, P.Z.
This was one of your very best posts.
Posted by: Interested reader | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally moronic, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Strange, I thought everyone here looked for compelling evidence for everything before coming to a conclusion. There's no evidence given by Dr. Myers that this host was actually consecrated. I, for one, don't believe it.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Won't Way of the Master be upset that you desecrated a banana?
Posted by: Fiziker | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Still seems a little too complicated for what it's worth. I think it was the right choice to go for something simple. As I was reading, I thought that flushing it down the toilet might be appropriately simple, but I realized that God might smite you by backing up your toilet.
Well done, PZ!
Posted by: Vince | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Well done Prof. Myers. I will raise a glass of Jack Daniels to you.
So when is this going to get national press coverage? NY Times? The Today Show?...oh forget it. Random thoughts seep out now and then.
Posted by: Michael Edmondson | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Wow. I may have to make an animation of this...
Posted by: Ken Cope | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Well done. Nothing is sacred. No idea is above challenge. In the words of Lenny Bruce, "Everybody's ass is up for grabs." At first it appears too studied to achieve that epic Zen casualness, but the randomness of coffee grounds, rusty nail (I wonder if Luther used a rusty nail to pound his message into the church door?) and overripe banana peel really tie it together. Titling the entire mess a God Delusion simultaneously twits and pays homage to the Zen Roshi of Atheism. What you did to the cracker is an apt punishment and a victimless crime.
Here's to the day when it can truly be said that religion is just dessert. As pictured, it sure looks like an ugly mess of a main course.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
I've been trying to think of a suitable analogy - the closest I got was taking a sacred Hindu cow and making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple.
FAIL. If you haven't noticed, this is happening on his blog, which does not show up by magic on people's computers. They have to come here to see it. The proper analogy would be having a barbeque at his own house. I'm sure no good Catholic has ever had a barbeque at their house before, out of concern for offending Hindus, right?
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Posted by: someone221 | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally stupid, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Posted by: Macron | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
You should have treated it like the cracker that it is and just eaten it for a snack.
Posted by: Inky | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
*Standing ovation*
Nicely done; and I mean the text.
I didn't give a crap what you did with what.
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
For Michelle at #205
That was funny as hell! Thanks for the crack up.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
PZ:
Nor any insubstantial difference, either, no?
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
"Class dismissed."
Posted by: Cleon | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
You know, I had a very similar thought.
Posted by: NoAstronomer | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Nice move including the God Delusion, that was a surprise.
Posted by: RamblinDude | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Well done.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
I totally know what you mean. He's worse than those devil-spawn children who claimed to be molested just to give the church a black-eye, or those who claim that Galileo was excommunicated and held under house arrest for claiming that the Earth was not the centre of the solar system, when in fact it was Galileo who persecuted those scientific men of God in the Vatican. In fact, the world is so hostile to Catholics that, fearing more repercussions like the Crusades (a Freemason frame job), the Vatican didn't feel safe coming out with their heliocentric findings until 1992.
Besides, no one's ever been able to prove Mary wasn't a virgin and why would so many people risk their lives for a lie if the bible isn't true and what about frozen waterfalls and how come nobody's ever seen a consecrated host evolve into a pumpernickel? I can't wait to see how you Myers-ists try to deny God's love when you're all burning in Hell for eternity!
Posted by: dale | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Dominoes Nabisco, et cum sirit tu tuo.
Posted by: Janus | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Brilliant post, PZ. We're very lucky to have you as one of the champions of reason.
Posted by: Fiziker | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Still seems a little too complicated for what it's worth. I think it was the right choice to go for something simple. As I was reading, I thought that flushing it down the toilet might be appropriately simple, but I realized that God might smite you by backing up your toilet.
Well done, PZ! I'm glad that no blood squirted out of the host when you stabbed it.
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
I would find that totally funny... If I could figure out if you're serious or joking.I'll go with joking cuz that's a great parody cartoon you just described there. :) (Cuz if you're serious... That's not very christian of you!)
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
* golf clap *
Posted by: Ash | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
beautifully written, beautifully 'executed'. thank you Professor.
Posted by: Dahan | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
Why'd ya have to do that to a nail! As a designer and builder, don't you know what that nail represents to me! What that symbolizes? Damn you! I'd rather you would have come over and skinned my cats than to defile the sacred nail. I'll be praying to the almighty hammer for you.
Ok, with that, keep up the excellent blog PZ. Thanks.
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
"Class dismissed."
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
I just want to throw in my support for a job well done, PZ. Throwing away those items harms no one, and you've at least brought the issue of freedom of speech to the forefront of a lot of people's minds, right where it needs to be. Most of those people have been Catholics though, since the majority of atheists already favor and defend free speech regularly. Now we just have to wait and see if there are any Catholic Leaguers out there who poses the ability to look at this situation rationally and realize that you had, and continue to have, all the right in the world to perform this act.
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: mayhempix | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
You "nailed it" PZ.
Now we wait for the crucifying to come from Donawhore, et al.
Posted by: Jeff Arnold | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
BRAVO!
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
You ripped up a copy of "The God Delusion"? Richard Dawkins will surely strike you down with a great bolt of NOTHING!
Posted by: Jeff Arnold | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
BRAVO!
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
Michelle: "Analogies? Which crazy one were you again? There's so many we lost track."
An uncomfortable truth still remains a truth. Here is the compilation:
1) Suppose you were a milkman with rotting teeth and cankerous lips. Before delivering each milk bottle you would take a swig and place it on the doorstep. You continued to abuse you privileged access to other people's milk for years. Then one day you decide to retire. Before you leave however, you let all of your customers know what you've been engaged in by letter while also leaving a picture of your cankerous mouth under each bottle. You have gleefully proclaimed your actions to all who will listen. No one was physically harmed and yet every customer (read: Catholic) affected feels deeply violated and abused. PZ Myers is effectively that milkman.
2) Suppose your are an embalmer. You are busy embalming a person for an open coffin ceremony and you decide to pilfer there lush locks of blonde hair for the construction of high class wigs (a business you have going on the side).
This person happens to be a Sikh. In order to hide the fact you have stolen their hair you then purchase a cheap synthetic wig and replace it. In the small print of the contract (which the distraught family don't read carefully enough) you make mention of this.
After the event you then decide to publicize this gleefully on a blog. No physical harm has been done to either person and yet I would argue that this is equivalent to PZ Myer's theft and subsequent desecration of the Eucharist publicized on his blog (of which extra web traffic generates money).
3) Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing called a mini-skirt these days. The material is often sheer and by its definition does not even come close to covering the knee roll.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniskirt)
Now if someone chooses to wear such an item it does not in the least bit make rape and sexual abuse permissible despite the fact that the odds increase exponentially. In both the eyes of the secular law and of my religion the assailants are still just as culpable.
So merely because Catholicism may seem like a remarkably soft target for PZ Myers (he has since been roped into desecrating the Koran) he is still as culpable as someone who chooses to attack say the more benign and watered down religions of Quakerism/Unitarian-Universalism.
4) Suppose you had a very sacred book outlining your philosophy on life. This book also happened to be stitched together and bound in the skin and flesh of a loved one who had recently passed away.
Now desecrating the Eucharist would have the same effect as desecrating that book and posting the evidence in glee.
Posted by: Jay | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
That's just it. These people live their lives based on the "what if". They don't actually believe, but they are scared into acting as if they do because they are afraid of being wrong.
Posted by: Inky | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
*Standing ovation*
Nicely done; and I mean the text.
I didn't give a crap what you did with what.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: Jon | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Mercy. You're doing it wrong.
Posted by: Gus C | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Nothing must be held sacred.
Exactly!! People come up to me and say they respect that I am atheist. I tell them to fucken not!
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Excellent! Congratulations! You may be on the path to recovery. Just start subjecting ALL ideas that are presented to you to this very same treatment. It may feel a little bit funny at first, but you will get used to it. Eventually, you will start abandoning bullshit... until you abandon the last god that you still cling to. This will be good: you will be able to walk around without you security blanket... And it will free your mind.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Great show. Let freedom ring. Let reasonable minds prevail.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Wow I think this all caused a terrible server comment lag. Comments are bumping into each other so much that the comments numbers are moving up and down and some comments are being fitted inbetween.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: bellerophon | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
PZ,
Good job, brilliantly conceived, spectacularly finished. As said, you deserve a standing ovation for that. A second G&T's hoisted up for you tonight in London. (We can turn this into a flashmob drinking session, people, just a thought.)
I can imagine the Catholics furor now. Either they're gonna go on "demonizing" you, or they're gonna call you a coward because you haven't recorded it live, you don't show proof that the cracker's consecrated, etc. Either way, it's gonna be so much fun to watch.
Thanks PZ, and homage to your big balls of steel.
Posted by: Nelson M. | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
I hope we can all get on with our respective lives now.
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
I just want to throw in my support for a job well done, PZ. Throwing away those items harms no one, and you've at least brought the issue of freedom of speech to the forefront of a lot of people's minds, right where it needs to be. Most of those people have been Catholics though, since the majority of atheists already favor and defend free speech regularly. Now we just have to wait and see if there are any Catholic Leaguers out there who poses the ability to look at this situation rationally and realize that you had, and continue to have, all the right in the world to perform this act.
Posted by: mayhempix | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
You "nailed it" PZ.
Now we wait for the crucifying to come from Donawhore, et al.
Posted by: Turdus | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Well said PZ. I especially liked the part about "sacrilege to the host" as an excuse to murder non-believers. This blog got a lot of attention from a lot of people, PZ. I think the thing that drives Catholics crazy the most about the whole affair is that YOU DID GET SOME PEOPLE THINKING, especially young people who saw this, in spite of assurances otherwise. That is really what is driving them NUTS!
Posted by: kestrien | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Watch out, P.Z., they're coming...
...to pray for you.
"What would he do if Catholics and other Christians, and even sympathetic members of other faiths, turned up en masse on his campus simply to pray quietly for him?"
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/07/pz-myers-desecrates-the-euchar.html
For some reason, I think he might stop by to say "hey," then go about his business.
Posted by: Parker | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Fantastic end to a fantastically pitiful display of human progression and rational thinking.
I'm glad you desecrated the God Delusion to show that we don't even take our own books that seriously.
Oh but Kirk Cameron's gona be soooo pissed that you trashed his yellow proof of gawd.
Posted by: JackC | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
May I have permission - or is it implied here - to copy your "If I wanted to..." portion of this? Positively spot-on.
JC
Posted by: Kent | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Alah Akbar alert. ...........Attention getter lol
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Posted by: Tony Phillips | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
I guess I understand why...you see religion as dangerous. Ok I get it, I don't agree but I get it. I see Godlessness as being even more dangerous...and we could go back and forth all day with examples of how the Catholic church did this terrible thing and how communists and other athiest organizations did that terrible thing. (Funny how you left that out of your litany of people who killed in the name of belief.)
But you know what's really funny? Your picture is a fake. I handle unconcecrated hosts every day and concecrated hosts every week, just like the one in your picture. If you even pressed the tip of a nail to a host it would crack into pieces. So that nail sticking right through it is a product of some picture editing software. So I guess you didn't do all you say you did. It makes me wonder if you did any of the other stuff. Interesting...confusing but interesting.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: deadvole | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
PZ, will you be my stand-in grandpa when I move to Minnesota? Because I need one as awesomely cool and eloquent as you. Very beautifully handled, that.
Posted by: Vic | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Dr. Myers, my hat's off to you. That's better than anything I could've dreamed up, and the real cherry on the sundae is that this is one of your best blog posts ever - enlightening, informative, incisive, and ever-so-quotable.
Plus, of course, imagining what the riled-up-hordes will do with the image of the God Delusion 'desecrated' along with their fetish items.
Posted by: Ric | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
I have an uncircumcised heart and an uncircumcised penis, and I'm happy about both.
That was a beautifully written essay, PZ. Screw the stupid cracker.
Posted by: Randy | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Kent @ #260:
Do you know a lot of "radical jihadis"? Hmmm, expect the NSA and Homeland Security to come down your parents basement stairs any moment.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
someone221 sez:
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally stupid, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Is that what it took for you, someone221, or were you just naturally mentally deficient enough to believe that a little round cracker is your God? c^_^ɔ
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: Ben D | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
If you believe that truth is relative, why can't you respect what "my truth" is? I believe that the host becomes Jesus. You don't. I respect that you don't believe; I have no issue with your disbelief. I don't make fun of you for not believing. As a fellow human, I would have expected the respect to be reciprocal.
Posted by: Pierre | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Magnificent post, PZ. I hope the religiously inclined will
read it carefully. I mean REALLY read it, and understand it,
not just browse the picture and complain. There's nothing
evil here, nothing hateful. Just plain common sense, and
a reminder that freeing ourselves from religion is the
most moral thing that we humans can do. It's just a cracker.
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Another echo from an acolyte here. Good work.
"This whole cracker business is too meaningless, and I hope that it will die down soon. It's hard to believe that either side can invest as many electrons to this business as they have."
Right, I'm afraid this blog has become too silly, and I'll 'ave to shut it down.
And the really troublesome part is as it gets more crowded, this thread will end up having even more replies due to that warning message that pops up in times of heavy traffic, and people re-submitting even though they most likely don't have to.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Stop posting, Andy! The intertubes are all clogged up. Don't worry, you're getting through multiple times, it just takes awhile.
Posted by: Stark | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Well done sir. Well done.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
Lovely stuff and nicely done. Good on ya PZ
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: chigurh | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
adding the god delusion was clutch. well done!
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
PZ:
Nor any insubstantial difference, either, no?
Posted by: ash | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
beautifully written, beautifully 'executed'. thank you professor.
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
@Tony Phillips
um...No. It's certainly a delicate operation sorta but it's perfectly doable. I actually already poked one of them crackers through. Not a church one, a "candy" one (who the fuck thought "hey let's use theses as candy"!? They're gross!) Yea, there was one on my birthday cake at one time. I poked a candle through it and it stayed in one piece. Honest to "god".
Anyway, if he couldn't do that, why did the church claim back then that the jews were doing it all the time?
Posted by: Dave2 | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
Pete Rooke wrote:
Pardon me, but where are these analogies to be found? Not on this page, anyway.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
I'm so sorry for this repeated post above. It was unintended.
Shame upon me.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
PZ,
You should put the remains of that copy of The God Delusion on ebay, it may not be sacred but I for one wouldn't mind owning it.
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
Posted by Ticktockman and #178:
perhaps some part of the, er, Holy of Holies separated at a young age.
Just *picture* it, my Catholic friends, chewing over that bit as it transubstantiates in your gullet. Holy indeed
Ha! Nearly sprayed tea accross the room when i read this one.
Hehehe...
Posted by: Noadi | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
Beautiful job! I don't mean the actual desecration, I honestly don't care much about it other than being happy it's over. What you wrote though is the far more important thing for people to realize. Nothing is sacred or should be taken on faith, question, learn, give respect where it is earned and deserved not where it is demanded. If it takes seeing symbols destroyed for some to wake up and see it than it's worthwhile to do.
Posted by: jb | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
"They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything."
Amen.
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Folks, this happens every time Myers Pharyngulates himself. Just hit the post button once and have faith that it will be carried by His Noodly Appendage to the comments where it belongs.
Posted by: tim gueguen | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Waaaaah, PZ is being a big meany by sucking up blog hits for yet another day! Traffic is down on mine, and I just know its because of this whole "cracker" business. This includes the outrage hits, as I have yet to have someone make an angry comment about my post claiming Mark Steyn is full of hot air, or that cocaine use won't make the Barenaked Ladies seem hip and edgy.
Posted by: Turdus | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Well said PZ. I especially liked the part about "sacrilege to the host" as an excuse to murder non-believers. This blog got a lot of attention from a lot of people, PZ. I think the thing that drives Catholics crazy the most about the whole affair is that YOU DID GET SOME PEOPLE THINKING, especially young people who saw this, in spite of assurances otherwise. That is really what is driving them NUTS!
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Now if someone chooses to wear such an item it does not in the least bit make rape and sexual abuse permissible despite the fact that the odds increase exponentially.
OH MY NON-EXISTENT GOD NO IT DOESN'T. Pete, feel free to have your bizarre and irrelevant analogies, but don't be spreading actual untruths. Clothing has nothing do do with frequency of rape. Amazingly enough, the only thing that correlates with probability of rape is the presence of a rapist. And using something as horrendous as rape as analogy to an event involving throwing a cracker in the trash can is so wrong I can't even express my contempt that you tried.
Posted by: mark | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
Pete at #310: There is nothing to respond to; what you've written is simply irrelevant nonsense.
I, too, cringe at the desecration of books!
Posted by: Melanogaster | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
This was way cool. Well done!
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
When I started writing my last comment, there were 214 posts. By the time the server accepted it there were 356. Wow.
Posted by: Cat's Staff | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
Oh come on...'third rate'....U of M Morris is better then that!
Posted by: Ben | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
PZ, are we still on to go unicorn hunting this fall?
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Holy motherfucking christ, John, get a fucking life you spammer!
How come there's no character limit on this blog anyway?!
Posted by: Nina in London | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
P Z Myers in post #200 wrote
"Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version."
Hey, PZ is a comedian! To us Catholics, transubstantiation is *exactly* the difference. It is a wafer of wheat with the exactly the same form and taste as before the consecration, but after consecration the form is still of wheat but the substance is now the Body of Christ.
To share the bread is wonderful and beautiful sacrament, to those that believe - and surely worthy of respect. Those that eat the host are proclaiming "I am part of the Church and I believe in what it teaches and we are all one in Christ."
This incident is not going to damage the Church and I hope that it will strengthen people's faith and encourage people to find out about the Catholic faith in all its richness.
Incidentally, the Brompton Oratory, scene of the theft, is very beautiful and any visitors will enjoy the tranquility and reverent atmosphere, but please in future treat it and those that serve and worship there with respect.
Anyway, I would think that Jesus is having a good chuckle at all this. After all, he was renowned for eating with sinners rather than those who proclaimed themselves to be holy, the Gospels are full of dinners indoors and out. His message was one of forgiveness and encouragement.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Well Done, PZ!
You might want to start worrying about that banana, though.
Next thing you know, Ray Comfort & Kirk Cameron are going to come to Morris & paper your house with $1,000,000 bill tracts. See what you have started now?
By the way, I knew I was right a couple of threads back when I called out that coward to prove that UM Morris is a 4th tier University, as he so inaccuratly called it.
ps - I still think the Viking funeral would have been comical, yet dignified.
pps- The focus group results on ChristoCracker-Desecratingly Delicious haven't scored as high as we had hoped, so we sent the package down to marketing, & they have really done an outstanding job to upscale the product.
Announcing - CHRISTESSENCE Table Wafers - Baked in the Spirit
We're still working on the whole ad package, kind of a riff on the Keebler elves,
only with angels - what do you think?
...
..
.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Lovely stuff, well done PZ
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
It's the iron-fortified cracker.
By the way, to those offended, note what the Church itself did about all of this. Nothing.
Really, it does no good for the church (though it might convince you that you're good) to make a big deal about a common offense. I'm sure that much "worse" is done by many out of the public eye, so that you're not protesting the violation so much as the fact that it is well-known. Unfortunately (and I'm serious, I wish it had not been hyped), you are thereby ensuring that it will be even more well-known.
I wouldn't have done it, but that's my judgment, not to be confused with PZ's. I suggest giving it a rest.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Dear Mr Rooke, WTF is up with your miniskirt/rape obsession? You are a creep of the greatest magnitude.
Just to do some gratuitous priest-bashing... how many of those young male victims were wearing miniskirts, Mr Rooke?
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Ale #316:
"Just start subjecting ALL ideas that are presented to you to this very same treatment."
Ahh, but I do. I will grant Dr. Myers the same level of evidence I accept from the apostles and their disciples: if an actual eyewitness (e.g. the person who gave him the host) or someone with direct contact with the eyewitness (e.g., presumably, Dr. Myers himself), is willing to die rather than recant his claim that the host was consecrated, I will be convinced that it was, in fact, consecrated.
Posted by: octopod | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Couldn't have been done with any more style or substance. PZ, you're awesome.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
whoops apology for repeated posts, the servers seem to have reached their final hour.
Posted by: merkin j. pus-tart | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
perfect . . .
Posted by: Jonathan | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
I am shocked and outraged by your treatment of The God Delusion. That was unnecessary and hurtful to my beliefs.
Now, I'll have to kill you in some painful and horrific way. I'm a little busy at work right now, so it might have to wait. hmmm. Come to think of it, I'm on the west coast, so it's a little far for me to travel to... whatever state you're in. I hear there's states other than California and Los Vegas, but I don't know what they are... It would really help if you came here. Perhaps I could give you a good killing over lunch. I know a fantastic sushi place you'll just love. Tuesdays and Thursdays are best for me. Just give your number to my people, and they'll set something up for us.
Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.
Jonathan
Posted by: jfatz | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
How DARE you desecrate the holy writ of our Lord and Savior, Richard Dawkins? You will surely burn! BURRRRRN!
...you know. If you, like... go to the beach. And don't bring suntan lotion.
Posted by: abeja | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
Excellent!
Posted by: Steve P. | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
A post for the ages.
Posted by: pksp | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
I don't know why you had to waste a perfectly good copy of The God Delusion to prove your point? At least that book is geared towards opening minds.
With that said, well done.
Posted by: 5ive | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
@106
"The God Delusion is about what we don't believe; the Eucharist and the Koran are symbols of what other people do believe. I would've preferred a genuine work of science to be among the desecratees.
Vivek"
Wouldn't the banana count since it has been scientifically engineered to reach its current edible-tasty state? Not to mention the trash can itself and the book pages and the ink on the pages and the coffee grounds and the rust reaction with the metals of the nail are a direct "symbol" of "scientism", wait, the cracker, too, used science to be "created". Don't forget about the breath PZ was exhaling and inhaling while he did this, that counts as science as well.
I guess we desecrate science every freaking day.
Posted by: Chuck Lunney | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version
Wait, PZ! Didn't you mean there isn't any TRANSsubstantial difference?
And I heartily applaud including part of The God Delusion in this "public desecration". About the only thing missing was a page from Origin of the Species. Oh well -- can't have everything. Besides, it looked like your trashcan was getting full.
The prologue was worth the price of admission!
Congratulations on a spectacular non-event of less-than-epic proportions.
Posted by: Dr Doctor | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
John
Have you ever heard of keeping things brief?
PZ Myers, you turned this into an object lesson. Bravo.
Posted by: Alexander Treseder | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
imagine reading all of #355 and staying awake.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
John,
Nice copypasta. Do you feel better now?
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
Shorter #355:
"blah blah magic man blah blah CRACKERS blah blah"
Posted by: BG | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
PZ - it'd be cool if the entire episode could be recapped with highlights so I can pass it along (like to my kids) without making people wade through 1,000s of comments.
My only fear is that PZ has jumped the shark.
Posted by: Mark | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
So, John at #355, are the contorted scribblings of deluded old men supposed to scare us?
Posted by: Matthew | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
"No desecration would have taken place were the host not consecrated, and thus no Catholic would even bother to notice. Yet, PZ claims the host was consecrated. Let him prove hi8s claim. Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.
So, where's the proof, or is this place not about science after all?"
TG, that's a silly detail. The fact that the presence or absence of hand-waving and Latin mumbling near the cracker has any affect on whether Catholics should be pissed off or not just goes to highlight how incredibly stupid this mythology really is.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Just saw the proof video! This is not a matter of faith anymore! Thanks PZ, thanks mysterious dude! GOOD JOB!
Posted by: Ric | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Hey PZ, can you delete that long bullshit post that John made?
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
@ #373
That is only evidence for the strength of their beliefs. It's not evidence for the truth of their beliefs.
Posted by: Savagemutt | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Very nice post. And you've handled the whole incident with remarkable restraint.
Posted by: Mohamed(real) | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
What a wild ride!
Posted by: Happy Girl 300 | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
The only sacrilege in this case is a possible waste of food calories. If it had been a jar of peanut butter, that would have been MUCH worse.
Posted by: Erasmussimo | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
I have been following this brouhaha with mixed feelings. On the one hand, I agree that PZ Myers' actions have instructive value; sometimes it's salutary for somebody to blatantly challenge our assumptions in a flamboyant fashion. On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with deliberate attempts to hurt other people's feelings. Let's face it, Mr. Myers' actions do hurt the feelings of Catholics and are intended to do so. Does the educational value of Mr. Myers' actions outweigh the emotional hurt inflicted? I don't know. It is fundamental to human nature that nobody learns without some pain. The advance of civil rights in the 1960s took place only by inflicting some pain upon racists. It was justifiable because the pain they inflicted through their racism was greater than the emotional discomfort that was wrought upon them to change their ways. But does the diffuse injury to society inflicted by religion justify the specific emotional pain the Mr. Myers visits upon Catholics? I don't know.
My greatest concern, however, is not with the mainstream reaction to Mr. Myers' actions, but with the reactions from the wingnuts. There will surely be Catholics who react with ugly ferocity, and these few may further polarize the cultural response. Mr. Myers is taking a significant risk here; while I admire his courage, I fear that violence directed against him will polarize the situation and make healthy progress more difficult.
There is an opportunity for a positive result in all this: if members of the Catholic community firmly and loudly declare that the essence of Christianity demands that Catholics turn the other cheek and love Mr. Myers as much as they love themselves, then the nobler side of religion will be asserted and perhaps some progress will be made against the ignoble side of religion. At this point, the ball is in their court. The challenge has been placed upon them: is Catholicism a religion of love or a superstitious tribe? I retain some small optimism that perhaps the outcome will a happy one.
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
John (#355), thanks for the spam, but next time please just provide a link. Several screens of copying and pasting is a bit much.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: drjimmy | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
Well done, PZ. A wonderful essay and an appropriate final act to the drama.
Posted by: Mohamed | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
What a wild ride!
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
Or rather, replace it with a link. No censorship, it's just that no one's going to read it, hence it is so much spamming.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
@John (www.catholic.com)
Come on, man! That was infantile. Am I posting the entire TimeCube page over at your blog? No, I did not think so... So why do you do it here?
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Posted by: Sarcastro | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
if you mean germany as a catholic nation 70 years ago, that's wrong, germany was (is) majority protestant (more then than now, as more secular germans have protestant than catholic background).
#1: Spain and Poland are both better contenders for what PZ was rattling on about.
#2: Look up the difference between 'majority' and 'plurality'. The latter is what Protestants in Germany are. The former is what they are not.
In fact, the single largest Christian denomination in Germany is Catholicism. Only when all Protestant denominations are added together do they outnumber the Catholics. And not by a whole lot.
Posted by: Joe | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
The scene looks carefully staged what with the nail over two title pages that are facing us with the other trash off to the side. You are a schemer, PZ.
Posted by: sil-chan | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
I think its time to impliment a maximum limit to the length of a post due to people like John. Here I was going along reading posts and BAM... A huge pile of words fell on me >.>
Posted by: Doubting Foo | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
I agree with a few others above...you should have included the title page from Origin of Species...
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Fuck you, John.
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Oh, and as a note: if a cracker is actually the body of someone (regardless of whom), Catholics are cannibals and should be thrown in jail. There have been a few cannibals in the past century who have claimed that they did it to become closer to God. Lovely, lovely religion you people have going on. Yeesh.
Posted by: Randy! | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Still working my way through the comments but wanted to get my "Bravo!" in here while the thread was still open.
I really like that any Catholic furbrains will have to try to read through the history of their religion before getting to the meat of the post. Perhaps one of them will get a bit of enlightenment...
Posted by: Rebecca Watson | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
Just chiming in to add my "nicely done," PZ. Well-written and educational response.
Posted by: ihatevi | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
#79 - LOL!!
Posted by: ErikFK | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
#355 John: nice copy and paste job. Now please go preach your neighbor's cows - and don't forget to pray for them.
To the actual topic: I'm impressed. PZ gave the whole story a excellent final turn, I can identify myself with - though I'm certainly far more respectful of religions than he is.
Posted by: TS Loosli | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
Well Done PZ. Let the religious beat thier chests and stand on their hind legs. Unlike real apes, they are nothing to fear.
Kudos,
TS
Posted by: Bachalon | July 24, 2008 3:17 PM
Well said, Professor. Thank you.
Posted by: Philip H. | July 24, 2008 3:18 PM
"Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanities' knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind."
If you actually read Christian Scripture, you will see Jesus encouraging his followers to do EXACTLY THIS. That fact that humans, in all our wonderful wisdom, ignore Jesus call and teaching, doesn't mean he isn't right. He ate, afterall, with tax collectors and prostitutes, some of the most reviled people of his day.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:18 PM
John, go touch yourself, you're annoying.
Posted by: Voltaire | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Quite possibly the most elegant essay I've read this year. Thank you, sir.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Again with the copypasta, John?
Thanks for verifying you have nothing to contribute. I was going to ask you to discuss what you had posted, but now I see you're not really equipped for that sort of rational discussion.
PZ, could you please remove John's novels from the comments page? Thx.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
In the great ledger sheet of Catholicism's virtues and vices, history would seem to trump optimism every time.
Posted by: qbsmd | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Does this count as art? You might be able to get someone to buy your trash can.
Posted by: Rob | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
It is appropriate that PZ destroyed books. Recall the library of Alexandria was burned by religious fanatics. I believe that the Catholic Church even canonized someone for the deed.
Posted by: Juan | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
PZ is the best!
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
@#393
Granted. This is why I stipulated that those professing the beliefs be eyewitnesses or have direct contact with eyewitnesses. I tend to believe eyewitness accounts when they are so strongly believed.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
That is meaningless. It is just an abuse of the English language. What you are in effect saying is that it is both the same and different. That is simply nonsensical. What properties does it have after consecration that it did not have before ? If there are no physical differences then there is no difference. Did you not do science at school or something ? There is an important concept in science, that basically states if you cannot tell two things apart then they are identical.
Posted by: GAtheist | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
Fuck, we need a block user option. Spammer StJohn is a shitbag.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
PZ,
I too would like to add my sentiments before the thread gets too full. Well done!
Posted by: Adrienne | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Hey, I think I see the face of Jesus weeping in the banana peel. Seriously, though, I'm glad this is over. Enough of Wafergate.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Am I the only one that thinks John's long ass post can be aptly characterized as WHITE NOISE?
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Someone's IP address needs to be banned.
Fucktard.
Posted by: lytefoot | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
Wow... attacking FOUR sacred cows at once! The communion, the koran, the god delusion, and English grammar. I believe you meant to say "Humanity's knowledge," that is, the knowledge of just one humanity (say hooray to our friend, the collective noun!).
Just kidding with the spelling flame, of course--though if there's one thing that inflames my irrationality it's the desecration of the sacred apostrophe. Very good post, well written, showing excellent insight into the history of the issue--I only wish Xians showed as much insight into the history of their religion. Wanted to chime in and and that, ha ha, I won the betting pool around here, I suspected you'd throw it in the trash.
This whole thing started out as kind of childish, but it ended up fairly moving. Like a lot of your more thoughtful pieces, it ended up coming across as moving in the same way that a good church service does. (Note: I was raised Unitarian, this has shaped my perception of the way a church service Should Be. If you don't argue about it at least all the way home afterward, it wasn't any good.)
Good luck, PZ. Hope none of the violent crazies are also motivated. You might want to consider hiring a ninja.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
What kind of idiot is this? He did it again! 3 times now!
Killfile Dungeon!
Posted by: J.D. Hutton | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
John:
tl;dr
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Delete the spammer(s), please. It is clear that when pressed to think for themselves, they resort to drowning themselves in mind-numbing blocks of meaningless text. Fine, but no reason the rest of us need to drown as well.
Posted by: ryanm | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
fuckin' A. Bravo, PZ. Though significant on a symbolic level, what you have done is so trivial, no, of no import WHATSOEVER compared to the vile barbarism perpetrated in the name of Catholicism. I single that one out just because they're the only ones who give a fuck about this goddamn cracker, and they've been so gracious as to show through their recent comments that vile barbarism is apparently alive and well in the ranks of the faithful. Good luck, and Reason-speed.
Posted by: Atticus | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Love it
Posted by: ThirtyFiveUp | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
As always, PZ is a teacher. And an accomplished writer. I did not know about the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 which led to repeated murders of Jews. Murdered because superstitious Christians believed bread could be Jesus.
By the way, I eagerly await publication of his book.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
"No way! Bananas have to be brown to taste right. Chiquita says so!"
All right, NOW we got blasphemy on our hands. Bananas are best when they have just a little green still on them. Only the fool in his heart says otherwise.
(Although browned bananas are still useful for making things like banana bread.)
Posted by: Kevin L. | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
You know, for all this gnashing of teeth over "where's the proof of consecration?" or "I thought this site was about SCIENCE and EVIDENCE" and "you're just accepting Myers' word on FAITH that it was real," whatever... There's one critical difference between accepting the word of, say, a priest, and accepting the word of PZ. PZ, unlike the priest, has demonstrated frequently and repeatedly that he is honest and credible, and, speaking for myself, I have no reason to doubt him now. Similarly, unlike, say, a religious zealout, Pharyngula enthusiasts, if faced with EVIDENCE that their trust was misplaced, will own up to their error.
A very nice post, PZ - a fitting way to end the madness. Now: more cephalopods, please! :)
Posted by: eguy | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
I love the Monty Python references. Although I disagree with your need provoke catholics I would agree with most of what you said. I mean death treats over a cracker. You can't make this stuff up.
Posted by: AaronSTL | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Well played, PZ but I still think you should have copied some text from the Koran onto the cracker and fed it to a willing Jewish person...maybe along with some bacon and a good beer.
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
@ #428
Yet in the case of Christianity you accept edited, translated, censored versions of second- or third-hand (or possibly more) eyewitness testimony.
One thing people are missing here is that there's two competing theories - that it was consecrated, or that it wasn't - and you need to compare the evidence for the two, not just demand evidence for one until it meets your expectations.
If you think it wasn't consecrated, present your evidence.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
The spammer is a sock puppet. He's used at least 3 names. I'm strongly against censorship, but I don't think deleting spam and deleting sock puppets is censorship.
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Ye Gods, this 'John' bloke is getting rather annoying. To the Dungeon with him!
Exitus
Posted by: Jolly Bloger | July 24, 2008 3:24 PM
PZ, this insult will not stand. I can't believe you did something so horrible to the God Delusion! I expect an apology immediately.
http://jollybloger.blogspot.com/2008/07/pz-has-gone-too-far.html
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:24 PM
Come on, PZ! Spamming, morphing, insipidity, godbotting... this must be a record: The idiot got himself into Dungeon-worthy shape after a handful of posts!
Posted by: Minneapolitian | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Thank you so much for doing this. You are a hero to anyone who actually uses their brain to think. Another reason for me to be proud of living in liberal Minneapolis is this happened right in my city! Ohhhh, you must plan something new!!!
Posted by: ryanm | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
fuckin' A. Bravo, PZ. Though significant on a symbolic level, what you have done is so trivial, no, of no import WHATSOEVER compared to the vile barbarism perpetrated in the name of Catholicism. I single that one out just because they're the only ones who give a fuck about this goddamn cracker, and they've been so gracious as to show through their recent comments that vile barbarism is apparently alive and well in the ranks of the faithful. Good luck, and Reason-speed.
Posted by: Melinda Dillon | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Well done!!!
Posted by: gruggach | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Way to go, PZ! I'm very happy with what you've done. You very eloquently hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: Hap | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
1) I see somebody found out how to cut and paste. How unfortunate.
2) This seems like an appropriate ending. Someone might learn something from it (it wasn't just to annoy people), or at least, know where you stand. Of course, the multithousand post threads indicate that there isn't very much willingness to listen or to learn anything, so the show goes on (sort of).
Although, realizing this, it sounds too much like the dialogue between the kid and Arnold in the desert scene in Terminator 2: "We're not going to make it, are we?"
Posted by: Chris P | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Hopefully you will go back through your trash and recycle properly.
Otherwise best thread yet. Another step in dismantling the stupidity of gods.
Posted by: Chicago | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
Posted by: Jochen | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
I'd still say that turning the flesh of jesus into poop is more offensive. And that's what these catholics are doing every sunday! Unbelievable! Damn cannibals!
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