…and this is a 
It is finished.
I wonder how many of our Catholic friends have heard of the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215? This is the event where many of their important dogmas were codified, including the ideas of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, that the Eucharist was the sacrament that only properly ordained priests of the Catholic church could give, and that the Jews were a pariah people, who could hold no public office, had to pay a special Jew tax for their right to exist, and were required to wear special clothing to distinguish them from Christians. The yellow badge marking the Juden was not an invention of the Nazis, but a decree by faithful Catholics in the Middle Ages. That's an interesting juxtaposition, that a symbol of Christian exceptionalism was formalized at the same time that they formally decreed the Jews to be inferior, and a target of hatred.
That combination was useful, too. Declare something cheap, disposable, and common to be imbued with magic by the words of a priest, and the trivial becomes a powerful token to inflame the mob — why, all you have to do is declare a bit of bread to be the most powerful and desirable object in the world, and even if it isn't, you can pretend that the evil other is scheming to deprive the faithful of it. Now you could invent stories of Jews and witches taking the communion host to torture, to make Jesus suffer even more, and good Catholics would of course rise in horror to defend their salvation. None of the stories were true, of course — Jews and infidels see no power at all in those little crackers, and the idea that they were obsessing over obtaining a non-sacred, powerless, pointless relic is ludicrous — but heck, it's a cheap excuse to make accusations illustrated by cheesy woodcuts of hook-nosed Jews hammering nails into communion wafers and lurid tales of blood-spurting crackers and hosts that pulsed like and beating heart, and thereby providing a pretext to encourage massacres.
The first recorded accusation was made in 1243 at Berlitz, near Berlin. As a consequence all the Jews of Berlitz were burned on the spot, which was subsequently called Judenberg. Another famous case that took place in 1290, in Paris, was commemorated in the Church of the Rue des Billettes and in a local confraternity. In 1370 in Brussels, the charge of host desecration, long celebrated in a special fest and depicted in artistic relics in the Church of St. Gudule, led to the extermination of the Jews of the city. The case of 1337, at Deggendorf, still celebrated locally as "Deggendorf Gnad", led to a series of massacres across the region. In 1510, at Knoblauch, near Berlin, 38 Jews were executed and more expelled from Brandenburg. The alleged host desecration in 1410, at Segovia, was said to have brought about an earthquake, and as a result, the local synagogue was confiscated and leading Jews were executed; the event continues to be celebrated as a local feast of Corpus Christi. Similar accusations, resulting in extensive persecution of Jews, were brought forward in 1294, at Laa, Austria; 1298, at Röttingen, near Würzburg, and at Korneuburg, near Vienna; 1299, at Ratisbon; 1306, at St. Pölten; 1325, at Cracow; 1330, at Güstrow; 1338, at Pulkau; 1388, at Prague; 1399, at Posen; 1401, at Glogau; 1420, at Ems; 1453, at Breslau; 1478, at Passau; 1492, at Sternberg, in Mecklenburg-Schwerin; 1514, at Mittelberg, in Alsace; 1558, at Sochaczew, in Poland. The last Jew burned for stealing a host died in 1631, according to Jacques Basnage, quoting from Manasseh b. Israel. Casimir IV. of Poland (1447).
That is the true power of the cracker, this silly symbol of superstition. Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age — the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all — but the sentiment still lingers. Catholicism has been actively poisoning the minds of its practitioners with the most amazing bullshit for years, and until recently, I had no idea that a significant number of people actually believed this nonsense, or that the hatred was still simmering there, waiting for an opportunity to rise up in misplaced defense of absurdity.
All of the regular readers have seen it — thousands of mindless comments by Catholics, demanding that no harm come to a cracker. My email is melting down with swarms of insults, threats, pleas, and promises of prayers because I
Mark Sutton is representative of the majority of my email. No threats, at least, but instead he simply takes for granted an astonishing piece of insanity.
Professor Myers,
I was saddened to hear of your plans to harm our Lord Jesus Christ.
It obviously isn't the first time and it won't be the last.
I know you do not believe, but what if it truly is Jesus that you are attempting to hurt?
You are in my prayers.
You would not believe how many people are writing to me, insisting that these horrible little crackers (they look like flattened bits of styrofoam) are literally pieces of their god, and that this omnipotent being who created the universe can actually be seriously harmed by some third-rate liberal intellectual at a third-rate university (the diminution of my vast powers is also a common theme).
Jim Nicholson cranks up the crazy even more. Not many accused me of being a freemason — I've got lots that call me a Jew, which is illuminating given the history of this issue — and I cringe at the thought of a circumcised heart. But yeah, this kind of angry rant is fairly common, too.
You must be the devil himself as even he knows the power in the Holy Eucharist (don't you dare disparage the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by calling Him Who died for you a cracker!). You must be a freemason, or just a very sick man who needs healing and believe me, I will pray for your conversion. Pray you live to see that day so you can ask Him to forgive you and your uncircumcised heart. Just the mere thought of desecrating the Holy Eucharist is enough to get one into hell, but, maybe that is, for now, the horrible place you are aiming for. I dare you to read about Our Lady of Fatima and the accounts of hell as the three children saw, then, maybe you will change you sick mind. God forgive you. However, it was great that you got many people praying for your conversion since you showed the world how sick you are, and maybe God will convert your hard heart. Pity you. From a lay evangelist who prays for you and the rest of this sick world of secular humanists.
Another common theme has been the attempt to turn away the desecration of a Catholic symbol into the desecration of an Islamic symbol. Obviously, it's not desecration they find disagreeable — it's the idea that someone would offend their weird sectarian sensibilities. Here's one from Jack Isaacks that fits the mold.
Dear Professor Meyers,
If you REALLY want to do a courageous, revolutionary act, defecate publicly on a copy of the Quran.
Or do you have the cojones?
Christians won't attack you for desecrating a host, but will those wonderful cuddly peace-loving Muslims be as forbearing if you used their book for a toilet?
Well, how brave are you?
Yeah, right. Catholics won't attack me, but Muslims will. Never mind that the Catholic League demands that I be fired, thousands of Catholics write to me demanding I be kicked out of the university immediately, and that they send me death threats, both the explicit kind and the vaguely menacing kind. Let's not forget Webster Cook, who started this all by simply walking back to his seat with a cracker, and now faces censure and possible expulsion from his university. Oh, those Catholics sure are forbearing and tolerant.
And since I mentioned yesterday that I was taking my oldest son to the movies, these good Catholics have leapt to the opportunity. Since I'm not demonstrating any fear over their threats against me, well hey, let's try a new target! KJ Atkins of Bellarmine University thinks cowardly warnings against my family might be effective.
You fool, the vengeance for your sacrilege will not be . exhausted against you, but it will be carried out on your child. Wait and see.
Oh, I'm sorry, KJ. I'm only impressed by significant material concerns, and yours and other slanders against my family (I'm looking at you, Miki Tracy, the despicable person who thinks making up lies about my father might be persuasive) are not going to convince me of anything other than that religion breeds the most disgustingly vile haters in our country, and that Catholicism fits right in with the rest. I will note, however, that since Bill Donohue tried to get CAIR to join him in his crusade, I have gotten no email from outraged Muslims, over a span of time in which I've received thousands of Catholic hate mail messages.
If you want to see the deep danger of religion, you have to read this comment from Isaac.
As a Christian it is an insult for anyone to call my beliefs stupid shit. I have respected every religion and every idea for years.
Ah, what a beautiful illustration of the complete open mind — utterly undiscriminating, lacking any criteria for acceptance, simply blissfully and uncritically according every idea his full respect. Although, of course, it's also a lie: Isaac does not regard every idea as equally deserving, since he clearly considers the atheist idea that the sacraments of his faith are empty foolishness to be an outrage. Rather, what he loves is the idea that everyone else must respect his beliefs, no matter what they are, and that any disagreement is an insult. This is exactly the kind of uncritical, unskeptical, nonjudgmental idiocy all religions seek to promulgate, because they all know that if we tore off the blinders of tradition and artificiality and mindless etiquette, we'd see right through their lies. Respect every idea! Especially mine! And if you find the idea that this cracker is a god stupid, why, you must be disrespectful and no gentleman!
For even deeper inanity, let's not forget the Catholic blogs! We're talking some serious derangement there: look at Mark Shea's reaction.
I won't mince words. Myers is an evil man. And as evil men, particularly evil intellectuals, tend to be, he is also a mad man as are most of his acolytes and followers.
Myers and Co. are enmeshed in these lies because they have chosen evil. It is evil--archetypally evil--to desecrate the Eucharist. It's the sort of stuff archetypal bad guys in the movies do. It's completely unnecessary gratuitous evil.
To the Mark Shea's of the world, I would say…it's just a cracker.
I think if I were truly evil, I would have to demand that all of my acolytes be celibate, but would turn a blind eye to any sexual depravities they might commit. If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I'd drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue. If I wanted to commit world-class evil, I'd undermine efforts at family planning by the poor, especially if I could simultaneously enable the spread of deadly diseases. And if I wanted to be so evil that I would commit a devastating crime against the whole of the human race, twisting the minds of children into ignorance and hatred, I would be promoting the indoctrination of religion in children's upbringing, and fomenting hatred against anyone who dared speak out in defiance.
I'm sorry to say that I only aspire to be a teeny-tiny bit evil, and my target is a handful of virtually inedible crackers in my possession. It's not much, and all I can say in my defense is…it's a start. A very small start. I'm going to need lots and lots of people to rise up and follow suit, subjecting old, dishonest institutions of hardened dogma to our chief weapon of ridicule and deris…our two weapons of ridicule, derision and laughter…no, three weapons of ridicule, derision, laughter, and skeptici…oh, never mind. You know what I mean. Get to work.
OK, time for the anticlimax. I know some of you have proposed intricate plans for how to do horrible things to these crackers, but I repeat…it's just a cracker. I wasn't going to make any major investment of time, money, or effort in treating these dabs of unpleasantness as they deserve, because all they deserve is casual disposal. However, inspired by an old woodcut of Jews stabbing the host, I thought of a simple, quick thing to do: I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel. My apologies to those who hoped for more, but the worst I can do is show my unconcerned contempt.
By the way, I didn't want to single out just the cracker, so I nailed it to a few ripped-out pages from the Qur'an and The God Delusion. They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity's knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
It is done.
Posted by: FormerMilitary | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
Well done.
Posted by: Tucker | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
Well this is going to be epic.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:06 PM
PZ: My gin and tonic will be hoisted up in your name tonight.
Posted by: JSorrell | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
Well, if you thought the deluge of email was bad now! :)
Thanks for pointing out that nothing should be held sacred.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
Requiescat in pace, Crustum Christi.
Posted by: Brian | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Well said PZ. Wish I could think of something more to add.
Brian
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Let the games begin!!
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:09 PM
Hahah... I hope Seed's servers are ready for the influx of crazy that this post will bring.
Posted by: Mystic Olly | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
And yet I fail to see the remains of last nights spaghetti bolognese. Do you cower in fear of His Noodley Appendage?
I think we should be told . . .
Posted by: AJ Milne | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Very nice. This did not disappoint.
A response to a post in a previous thread, carried forward (since, y'know, I'm sure this'll be going on for a bit, anyway)...
I've been thinking about this for awhile now. I originally agreed with those saying that PZ is needlessly provoking the religious, but their batshit crazy responses tell me it isn't so needless.
Yep. Or sorta. I'd never have gone as far as 'needlessly provoking', but I sure did see it as pretty trivial, initially.
And I still do. But only in the one sense. More precisely, I was never much for or agin' it, initially. I mean, as I understood it, it started out as a snarky (and, in context, entirely appropriately snarky) riposte to the sheer nuttiness of what happened at UCF anyway. I don't think any of us even figure he even meant it terribly seriously, at first. I mean, seriously, why would anyone bother, either way? And I think if he'd actually done it two weeks ago, my reaction woulda been: oh, okay... an odd thing to do... and... ummm... why, seriously? I'm still trying to wrap my head 'round the fact that the folk taking Donohue's bait haven't thought about that, more. I mean honestly, do you really think Donohue even thought PZ meant it that seriously? Or that Donohue even cared if he did? His reaction was pure political opportunism. Somethin' he figured he could make some hay with.
But making that hay, it leads places, whether he and his followers like it or not. And the sheer lunacy of those objecting shifts things, oddly. I mean, you say you're going to do something that should be so trivially silly, and all of a sudden, there's this windbag demagogue getting all red-faced, going on and on about what a horror this is, working on whipping up the outrage, and oh my, but people are actually falling for it. And there are people trying to get people fired, and the trolls are winding up and sockpuppeting the hell out of this place, there's nuts making threats and getting their wife fired, and you get to thinking: well, y'know, yeah, okay, maybe you should do that cracker thing. Sure it's silly, sure it's trivial, but, strangely enough, it does prove a modestly significant point, in this now truly bizarre context. Which is that pushy, arrogant gasbags like Donohue and the loud but not terribly bright folk he's managed to mobilize do not get to call the shots--not here, not anywhere. They don't get to demand anything, let alone respect, from anyone else, not with an attitude like that. Death threats, huh? Demands folk be fired, huh? Endless attempts, in fact, to demand punishment and suffering for what in the end is mere expression of an opinion they don't happen to like--and yes, folks, not that it's even entirely relevant, but I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it is, all their mumbo jumbo and handwaving about mystical rites and transubtantiation notwithstanding. Same as it's always been, same old excuse for any extremism they might want it to justify.
And this is how they presume to command 'respect', is it? And is this to be the way of things: the gasbags who threaten most and who scream 'bigotry' loudest gets to say what is and what is acceptable mockery of their particular irrationality of choice? What next, will we begin prosecuting blasphemy in the west again, jail those who dare to fail to show proper respect for the currently dominant faith?
So, okay, if they want to be like that about it, I'm with him all the way. And the cracker's toast. Sure it might still seem sorta a silly thing to do, on the face of it. But it's a madness with a certain method after all.
(And the banana peel sure is a nice touch.)
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:10 PM
The secret addition was a few papers from the God Delusion?
Very appropriate! I say this without an ounce of sarcasm, by the way.
Posted by: clinteas | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
PZ,you should eat your bananas before they turn brown.
Posted by: drake33 | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
+1 to PZ Myers.
Posted by: Katharine | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
Well said, PZ.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:11 PM
I can't wait to hear what Richard Dawkins thinks of this. :)
Also, don't you still have a whole bunch of other crackers? What're you gonna do with them?
Posted by: Analiese | July 24, 2008 2:12 PM
Shit, pz, I hope you've got a lid on that garbage lest the cracker rise again! Great post. Ahhhhh, men....
Posted by: Alan | July 24, 2008 2:12 PM
May the Hand of God bless you as you deserve.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
I don't think anything is done at this point. I think the shitstorm is just about to start. You should really have a composting bin for all of that organic matter. Ashes to ashes and all that.
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
Oh, and PZ, don't close this thread. Let's see just how high this sucker will go.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
Nothing Sacred - reminds me of a Zen story...Bodhidharma telling the pissed off Emperor of China that "Nothing is holy"... Then there is the old:"If you meet the Buddha, Kill him" Tossing a wooden Buddha on the fire etc... all to prove that nothing should be held above "reality". Why can't we have more "religions" like that? Or better yet, none at all...
Posted by: jb | July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
You don't compost your banana peels and coffee grounds? You ARE evil.....
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Now we wait for the lying press release from Bill Donohue and the deranged Catholic hordes that follow.
Good work, PZ. You used it to make a good point: No cheap, little material object should be considered sacred. Adding the pages from the "God Delusion" was a good move.
Posted by: Ranson | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Hmm. No spurting blood? Maybe the fruit peel will lose it's browning in a spontaneous healing miracle.
Posted by: Luke O'Dell | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
The God Delusion? I was on the right lines with my Origin of Species prediction, then. Nice job, PZ.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
http://www.kobrascorner.com/opine/nothing-is-sacred.php
I wrote this the other day, and because of this I greatly approve of including pages of The God Delusion. I'm sure even Prof. Dawkins will approve of the gesture (especially since PZ has already read it and there's no point in keeping it intact, right?).
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 2:14 PM
Nice to see that you threw in some pages from The God Delusion. I know it's just a book, like the Qur'an, but it's still an excellent way to demonstrate that your goal is to show that nothing is, or should be, "sacred", and not simply to piss off some extremists (although I'm sure they'll find a way to get worked up just the same).
Posted by: The Science Pundit | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
The page from The God Delusion proves to us that you are not a loyal member of the Church of Dawkinity! I immediately move for your excommunication!!!
Posted by: Deepsix | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Cheeses Christ, PZ, you've already bogged down the server.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Now we wait for the lying press release from Bill Donohue and the deranged Catholic hordes that follow.
Good work, PZ. You used it to make a good point: No cheap, little material object should be considered sacred. Adding the pages from the "God Delusion" was a good move.
Posted by: PeteC | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Well done; the "it is finished" is a nice touch too.
But.. don't they have recycling in Morris? Paper and food waste in the trash? That's sacrilege here in the Bay Area...
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Hopefully after the howls of outrage from the godbots subside we'll see no more fourteen hundred reply threads!
Anyway, well done PZ...the picture just shows it's a "fracking" nailed cracker and some paper.
oh, and Maria (#1): There are no gods to have mercy on non-existent souls. Just thought you might like to know as you seem to be stuck in la-la land.
Martin
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Great job, PZ. I was worried that you might get carried away, but you have done exactly what was needed to be done.
Posted by: SC | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
How fitting.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Brillant PZ. Loved every word of it. You have my support.
Posted by: Draconiz | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
+1 to PZ!
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Hopefully after the howls of outrage from the godbots subside we'll see no more fourteen hundred reply threads!
Anyway, well done PZ...the picture just shows it's a "fracking" nailed cracker and some paper.
oh, and Maria (#1): There are no gods to have mercy on non-existent souls. Just thought you might like to know as you seem to be stuck in la-la land.
Martin
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
Posted by: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood | July 24, 2008 2:16 PM
We wait with bated breath to discover what trepid outrage the god-botherers will cast down upon you.
What a hollow god they serve! How delicious a treatment of their sacred relics!
Posted by: Potter | July 24, 2008 2:17 PM
You, sir, handled this perfectly! Bravo!!
Posted by: David Wegehaupt | July 24, 2008 2:17 PM
Well done... I'm glad this ordeal is over
*ignores the following 2000 comments about the damn cracker*
Posted by: Robin | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Brilliant. This is the first blog post I have literally applauded.
Posted by: freelunch | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
I wonder whether that Louisville college ever considered calling itself Torquemada University. Bellarmine would be unknown except for his treatment of Galileo. Torquemada was famous.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
TG, why do you doubt it is a consecrated host? Do you doubt his ability to get one? Do you doubt his willingness to desecrate one? You're grasping at straws.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
And it is done. Couple thousand more comments and the troll-fest will come to a close.
I'm quite sure it's unintentional but the banana peel (you know, the atheists worst nightmare!) is a wonderful bit of irony to top it off. ;P
Posted by: dave | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Yay! Splendidly anticlimactic, nicely judged. Just a bit unsure about the rusty nail, a hint of Voodoo tetanus going on there. Could be uncomfortable for those who believe in magic....
And sad to see the desecration of books, which are all special, but fair's fair.
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
The God Delusion, too. Brilliant!
Posted by: Dylan Dog | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
Great article PZ!
Posted by: AndrewG | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
Thank you PZ for posting this, it is needed.
Faith inebriated, lunatics, ridiculed and mocked me as a teenager for daring to question God' existence. For several years they wasted my time and forced me to ingest prodigious fables of super heroes. I look forward to the response or rather the maunderings, of His Excellence, the CEO of the Roman Catholic Church when this news reaches him. His mental gymnastics is a treat and I have little doubt that he and his lieutenants will have no difficulty in further embarrassing themselves in the eyes of the civilized world.
Faithaholics have enjoyed power far too long and have abused it repeatedly yet they continue to demand respect. Fuck their feelings and fuck their intellectually lazy minds. I celebrate this occasion with all sane people around the planet. Screw all gods especially the sketsophrenic trio, Jesus, his Daddy and Casper from the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa.
Peace everyone, please. Man created God and no amount of violence will change that.
Andrew
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
I wonder if PZ's gonna be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of some Catholic digging through his trash trying to "rescue" the cracker.
Seriously, this is awesome entertainment.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
That Darwin and his time machine; always causing trouble.Posted by: Josh West | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
#39 It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
That's pretty much the point. 'Consecration' is meaningless drivel. Not sacred.
Bravo PZ, nice ending to this mess.
Posted by: freelunch | July 24, 2008 2:19 PM
I wonder whether that Louisville college ever considered calling itself Torquemada University. Bellarmine would be unknown except for his treatment of Galileo. Torquemada was famous.
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Dawkins will undoubtedly smite you in his terrible wrath!
But thank God that's over!
(I don't really mean the "thank God" part, of course. It's just an expression.)
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Oh brilliant. Simply brilliant.
The God Delusional is a nice touch. The only thing I might have added is a page from Origins.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Good going! Justice has been done. The text's a bit too long for me to read right now so I'll be sure to read it later in depth!!! I skimmed through it and saw the mighty picture.
Unfortunately I'm sad you didn't try to make a cross out of popsicle sticks. Now THAT would've been funny.
Wait uh... w...what's the brown stuff? O_o
...coffee? PHEW
Posted by: Paul W. | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
I'm sure that will be forthcoming, just as soon as somebody provides PZ with evidence that his consecrated host was transubstantiated into the Body of the Living God.
Why does one matter without the other?
Posted by: Richard Wolford | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Beautiful, and point well taken. I would have longed for some pages of On the Origins of Species in there as well, but The God Delusion was likely more fitting, so again, beautiful.
Posted by: Quinn Martindale | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Meh...
Posted by: E.V. | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Oh no, the hand-wringing has begun.
Posted by: Greta Christina | July 24, 2008 2:20 PM
Father, into Your hands I commend my crumbs.
And I never again want to hear about sophisticated modern theology, and how nobody takes that magical- thinking stuff seriously anymore.
Posted by: GeoffI | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
PZ,
I hope you saved that piece of art you have created. You could sell it on eBay and give the money to a pro-science charity.
Posted by: Brian W. | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
ripping a few pages out of those books is ok, as long as the aren't completely ruined. I hate to see ANY book destroyed.
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
"TG, why do you doubt it is a consecrated host? Do you doubt his ability to get one? Do you doubt his willingness to desecrate one? You're grasping at straws."
I am a man of science. I want proof, not claims based on authority.
Posted by: bad Jim | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Holey crackers!
Posted by: SteadyEddy | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Excellent write-up as always PZ! There are some un-rational people who might accuse you of copying something that has already been done, but I can think of nothing more fitting than to nail that ort of stale tasteless bread to some processed wood fiber. Well done PZ!
Posted by: F. Jardim | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Amazing writing in your prelude to the main event. A+ as far as I am concerned.
As for the festivities themselves, I liked the casual utilitarianism of the desecration. Adding a page from The god Delusion was also thoughtful and helps showing that the truly unbiased, rational mind doesn't revere icons, even if their meaning agrees with their own conclusions. I think a page from 'Origin of the Species' would have been FAr more effective in rubbing on the faces of fundies how we do not hold Evolution or science as a religion.
Posted by: Physicalist | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
He desecrated The God Delusion??? Forget excommunication; BURN HIM!!!!!
Posted by: Jon | July 24, 2008 2:21 PM
Nice touch there with the God Delusion. That should sufficiently perplex them.
It won't, of course.
Posted by: Rob | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
@TG: I seem to recall others asking how to prove it's consecrated, and you refuse to say how.
PZ, I'm a little disappointed in what you did. I think you gave too much consideration. IMHO, you should've forgone the nail and just tossed it all in the garbage.
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
Can't you hear the little jeebus cracker screaming?
That's the giveaway there, innit?
Posted by: Josh West | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
#39 It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
That's pretty much the point. 'Consecration' is meaningless drivel. Not sacred.
Bravo PZ, nice ending to this mess.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
TG sez:
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
Tell you what, TG. If you can pick a consecrated host out of a lineup of unconsecrated ones, I'll concede that your question is relevant, and I'll ask PZ to provide proof of consecration. Sound fair?
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
Dawkins will undoubtedly smite you in his terrible wrath!
But thank God that's over!
(I don't really mean the "thank God" part, of course. It's just an expression.)
Posted by: Quinn Martindale | July 24, 2008 2:22 PM
It's weird, but the destroying of books disturbs me regardless of their sacred status.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
Now if we could just make the rest of the religious crackers in the country go away...
Posted by: Philboid | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
PZ, you nailed it.
Posted by: BluesBassist | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
Bravo! Not bad for a "third rate" intellectual.
Posted by: Kawa | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
* applauds *
Posted by: Shygetz | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
While it does kinda bother me that you destroyed two perfectly servicable books instead of giving them to people who could read them (not sacreligious, just not cool) I found the conclusion (if it truly is such) to be suitably anti-climactic, which is exactly what the disposal of a cracker should be.
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
TG #39:
Can't you see the blood and ichor oozing from the stabbed host?
Wait...
That's because there's no difference between a fracking cracker and a consecrated host. (mumble mumble Hoc est corpus christi mumble mumble [nice ass on that choirboy] mumble mumble)
Why don't you use your amazing christo-powers to discern the cracker's consecrated nature?
Martin
Posted by: John C. Randolph | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
PZ,
This is one of the finer essays you've written. Thanks for the history lesson, and well done.
-jcr
Posted by: Slen | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
stupid simple cracker
May is decompose like the trash it is.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:23 PM
...Wait a sec guys. Where's the blood?! I thought they said there was a guy that had a flood of blood, and that jews had stains of blood coming out of there! HEY!
Could it be that it's... it's just a tasteless sheet of paper? Oh no.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
I wonder if PZ's gonna be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of some Catholic digging through his trash trying to "rescue" the cracker.
Seriously, this is awesome entertainment.
Posted by: Jack of Knives | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
The picture makes it a bit grittier than it should seem, but...
I liked the conclusion best. It's a good take home message.
Posted by: God | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
God damn it, PZ. Now I have to start the universe all over again.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
Nice post. I really liked your last paragraph.
Posted by: blf | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
I suspect Teh Big Oxidized Spike is deeply offended at this disgraceful treatment of a rusty nail, and its followers will send a congregration of angry screws after you. Pay attention as to whether they are normal, Phillips, Robinson, of other types of screws, this is a matter of great division in Spikemythical, with much flaking of the rust.
Posted by: Jesus, called Christ | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
As the dead Jew that Catholics claim to worship, I would just like to say that I entirely approve.
Posted by: Slinky | July 24, 2008 2:24 PM
Excellent, i loved the inclusion of the god delusion pages, i think they helped prove a point.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
PZ, you have a typo!
Posted by: John | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
GULP - The God Delusion...in the trash?!
You my friend, have Large Brass Balls.
You may need a wheelbarrow to carry those in...
(Yes - a Bill Hicks reference)
Wow.
I stand here shaken (not stirred)
Bravo, PZ, Bravo!
Posted by: F. Jardim | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Amazing writing in your prelude to the main event. A+ as far as I am concerned.
As for the festivities themselves, I liked the casual utilitarianism of the desecration. Adding a page from The god Delusion was also thoughtful and helps showing that the truly unbiased, rational mind doesn't revere icons, even if their meaning agrees with their own conclusions. I think a page from 'Origin of the Species' would have been FAr more effective in rubbing on the faces of fundies how we do not hold Evolution or science as a religion.
Posted by: Jesse | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Good blog. The preamble was perfect.
I wouldn't have bothered with the nail, although the page of the God Delusion was a nice touch. Unconcerned throwing out with the trash. Perfect.
Good luck wading through the hate mail.
Posted by: Patricia | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Standing ovation!
Bravo PZ! Bravo!
Posted by: S. Fisher | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Brace yourself PZ. I've been reading your blog for several years (since sometime in '05) and this seems to be some sort of culminating event. I think you've definetly got the attention of the worlds Godbotherers now. It's been fun, and will continue to be fun to watch your antics. Changing the world one post at a time.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
TG,
Surely Catholics will be able to tell if the wafer is consecrated or not. In fact this whole thing has been about just that claim, that there is a difference. Well if there is, Catholics presumably will be able to tell. After all if that wafer really is the body of Christ it will not be the same as just an ordinary wafer.
So come Catholics, tell us. Is that wafer consecrated or not ?
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Crucified again ;)
What's this thread (and/or follow-ups) going to, 5000 comments?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Michael Hogan | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
I'm an atheist and think religious beliefs are stupid but I wish you hadn't done this. It will just inflame them. It would have been better to do nothing and let their own intolerant words condemn them. The Catholics have revealed their true nature.
Love your web site otherwise.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | July 24, 2008 2:25 PM
Now if we could just make the rest of the religious crackers in the country go away...
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
PZ, you have a typo!
Posted by: bullfighter | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
I hope your trash is picked up before the third day. I wouldn't want to have a holey cracker rise from my trash can and walk around my house.
Posted by: Vivek | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
The God Delusion is about what we don't believe; the Eucharist and the Koran are symbols of what other people do believe. I would've preferred a genuine work of science to be among the desecratees.
Vivek
Posted by: God | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
God damn it, PZ. Now I have to start the universe all over again.
Posted by: John | July 24, 2008 2:26 PM
GULP - The God Delusion...in the trash?!
You my friend, have Large Brass Balls.
You may need a wheelbarrow to carry those in...
(Yes - a Bill Hicks reference)
Wow.
I stand here shaken (not stirred)
Bravo, PZ, Bravo!
Posted by: Reginald | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE DEFILED THE GREAT TENANT OF MY FAITH! I WILL NOW PRAY TO MY GOD:
OH MIGHTY AND MERCIFUL BAZELKESH, FORGIVE THIS MAN FOR COMBINING COFFEE GROUNDS WITH YOUR SACRED 'SPOTTILY BROWNED BANANA PEELS' HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
Posted by: TG | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
I'm sure that will be forthcoming, just as soon as somebody provides PZ with evidence that his consecrated host was transubstantiated into the Body of the Living God.
Why does one matter without the other?
++++++++++++
No desecration would have taken place were the host not consecrated, and thus no Catholic would even bother to notice. Yet, PZ claims the host was consecrated. Let him prove hi8s claim. Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.
So, where's the proof, or is this place not about science after all?
Posted by: charfles | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Woot finally. The God Delusion desecration was predicted (Prophesied?) by a few people in the earlier threads.
Posted by: S. Fisher | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Brace yourself PZ. I've been reading your blog for several years (since sometime in '05) and this seems to be some sort of culminating event. I think you've definetly got the attention of the worlds' Godbotherers now. It's been fun, and will continue to be fun to watch your antics. Changing the world one post at a time.
Posted by: Bryan | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
This is so G-rated compared to all of the atrocities done in the name of Jesus.
I applaud your family values PZ!
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
Brilliant. I especially liked the abuse of the book by Dawkins, just to prove atheists consider nothing to be sacred.
Also brilliant was the massive evidence for the idea that Catholics are the most immoral people in human history, a problem that obviously continues today.
Well done, sir.
Posted by: MartinDH | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
TG #39:
Can't you see the blood and ichor oozing from the stabbed host?
Wait...
That's because there's no difference between a fracking cracker and a consecrated host. (mumble mumble Hoc est corpus christi mumble mumble [nice ass on that choirboy] mumble mumble)
Why don't you use your amazing christo-powers to discern the cracker's consecrated nature?
Martin
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Wow! That's got to be the quickest trip to 100 comments ever!
Posted by: Andrew W | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Well done PZ.
Posted by: Reginald | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE DEFILED THE GREAT TENANT OF MY FAITH! I WILL NOW PRAY TO MY GOD:
OH MIGHTY AND MERCIFUL BAZELKESH, FORGIVE THIS MAN FOR COMBINING COFFEE GROUNDS WITH YOUR SACRED 'SPOTTILY BROWNED BANANA PEELS' HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.
Posted by: fireant451 | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Some may hoist a G&T, but I shall have a Rusty Nail tonight in PZ's honor.
Posted by: Viscount | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Great post PZ! It was exactly what was needed. Thanks for going through with this and not caving to the threats.
Incidentally, how did you manage to get the consecrated host? Did someone sneak it out of Mass or did you find a disgruntled ex-priest to Jesusize it for you?
Posted by: DB | July 24, 2008 2:28 PM
Whatever your attitude towards the Host may be - your actions and bragging about them display a hatred and utter disdain for those who believe differently from you.
I understand that YOU don't hold it sacred. That's fine, if you don't believe, you don't believe and that's your business. That is, it's between you and God (and if you don't believe in Him, also your business).
The fact is, the Host IS sacred to millions if not billions of people. Your actions reveal a deep seated hatred, contempt and disdain for those people and their beliefs. I guess nothing matters to you except what YOU think, how YOU feel and what YOU want. Must be nice being god on You Planet.
Posted by: Zeno | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Sorry for the double post, but I got a message telling me my comment had been aborted. (Sorry, Catholics, for using that terrible word.)
I assume the double post is a miracle!
Posted by: Brian | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Well, it's somewhat of an anticlimax for sure. No daylight instantly turning to night, no curtains ripping, no blood gushing, ground shaking...
I guess God either doesn't give a shit about crackers, Q'urans and mindless followers or perhaps...
Man made up the whole God thing.
hmmm
Either way, god doesn't give a shit. Live life, enjoy your family and friends and show respect to your fellow man/woman and not to crackers and silly beliefs.
Posted by: RM | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
That was beautifully done.
Posted by: Greta Christina | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Oh, P.S.: I just want to say how sorry I am for everything you've been through with this, PZ. You took one for the team. Thanks, dude.
(And I also want to say that, when I started my initial comment, the comments were at 7, and yet mine came in at #61. Fracking hilarious.)
Posted by: Autumn | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Given that the picture was below the fold, as well as the length of the post, any people claiming to be outraged about it are obviously going to great lengths to find images which offend them. How sick is someone who really, really needs to be angry all the time?
Posted by: Moses | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Yeah!
Posted by: Adam | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Don't let the bastards grind you down
Posted by: Reed Braden | July 24, 2008 2:29 PM
Wooo! Carnage!
Posted by: Gene Goldring | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
"That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind"
Posted by: Katharine | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Vivek -
Science is not religion.
Posted by: BaldySlaphead | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Congratulations PZ; you made the point even more forcefully than I had hoped by treating this whole preposterous affair with the casual contempt it so rightly deserved. The God Delusion was a great touch!
Hope the fuckwits leave you alone now.
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell, but you have chosen to be. hahahahahaha
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
The books I destroyed were ones that I had duplicate copies of -- I've actually got several other copies of The God Delusion still. I think Richard will forgive me. In fact, he might join me in encouraging all of you to go buy a second copy so you can desecrate your first.
Nobody is going to be going through my garbage. The date was picked intentionally to be after the weekly garbage pickup here. I suppose some Catholic crazies could head out to bless the Morris landfill, if they want.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Argh, sorry for the double post, I see the server is already toasted. I'm sure PZ's overlords at Scienceblogs are just thrilled. But boy has this ever been worth it.
Posted by: Wayne Walker | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
As a worshiper of the Great Spotted Banana, I will express a modicum of outrage at 4pm, over tea. Followed by a nap.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:30 PM
Blessed be the holy evolution, PZ did not desecrate the holy Origin.
Had he violated my holy religion, vengeance would follow (you know I'm kidding, right)?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
May God forgive you.
Posted by: Parker | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
Fantastic ending to an embarrassing display of MIddle Age irrationality and sickening idiocy.
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
Good one. Nice touch by adding in Dawkin's book.
Posted by: Honna | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
I was starting to get bored today.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:31 PM
PZ,you should eat your bananas before they turn brown.
No way! Bananas have to be brown to taste right. Chiquita says so!
Fabulous post, PZ. Very well-written and thought out.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
I can't desecrate my first copy of The God Delusion - Professor Dawkins consecrated it with his signature.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
Beautiful. Elegant. Poignant. Thought-provoking. A glass raised to you, my friend.
And, a request to the rest of my atheist friends here. We all know the "righteous" will come here bellowing. I suggest we sit back, and quietly let them, in our own form of silent protest. I'd love nothing more than to let this thread fill up with nothing but hate-filled vitriol from the catholics, reinforcing PZ's post. Let it fill with the complaints and screeches of those who don't get the point. I myself will contribute not one more word to this matter, and although I would never insist that you do the same, I think it would be great to just sit back and let it sink in... silently.
CE
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell, but you have chosen to be. hahahahahaha you are not posting my comment, huh....where's your son tonite?
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
TG's got a point and no logic driven being can deny that! We need proof it was consecrated. But unfortunately that proof will only be the word of the guy/girl that got it from him. Annecdotes aren't great as we point out to the silly christians/various fanatics. I doubt they let people videotape masses.
Guess for that one we'll just have to take it on... gasp... faith. Or start over and try to sneak camera proofs!
Posted by: Geoff | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
I would like to personally thank Dr. Myers for not desecrating spaghetti or pasta of any kind.
His holyness the FSM is pleased.
Posted by: rb | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
sorry, but the Koran does not look like an official Koran it looks like a translated version, which would diminish its sacredness.
Posted by: fireant451 | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
Some may hoist a G&T, but I shall have a Rusty Nail tonight in PZ's honor.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
TG, if you were actually a man of science you would never demand proof of anything. It is impossible to prove anything outside of mathematics and formal logic. Scientists deal in evidence. It is clearly a host. PZ is clearly capable of getting a host from his blog horde. PZ is clearly unconcerned with desecrating a consecrated host. Only extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Without evidence to the contrary there is no evidence to doubt his claim.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:33 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Just a thought to all the people wishing for God to Punish PZ - according to your shtick, all you have to do is "not believe" to go to hell, so what's the big deal about poking a hole in the bread wafer? Doesn't really add anything to the imagined tortures that were already imagined to be waiting in some imaginary after life...
Posted by: PaulT, | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
As an ex-catholic, just let me add that whatever you have done to that cracker, it is not nearly evil as what those priests did to those children for so many years.
Posted by: thundergunn | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Well done! I'm going to raise a glass of Laphroaig in toast, and munch on some cheese and 'crackers'.
Posted by: Brian W. | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Vivek, I think that is a good point. Oh well.
BTW, an Elder Scrolls fan?
Posted by: Erik | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
I will not stand for the desecration of the God Delusion. May science have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Beautiful!
Sagan, Feynman, Dawkins, Aasimov... All have inspired me at one point or another. It may be that you are not such a "rockstar" as them, but now it is your turn to inspire, PZ.
Thanks. Well done!
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
He won't, he's always pissed off. Sour guy, that G fellow.Posted by: Honna | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
I was starting to get bored today.
Posted by: razib | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
if you mean germany as a catholic nation 70 years ago, that's wrong, germany was (is) majority protestant (more then than now, as more secular germans have protestant than catholic background). as for the muslim vs.catholic comparison, i think the point is that the catholic league wants to fire you, the muslim league would want to set you on fire :-) that's a difference between obnoxiousness and savagery.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Nothing is sacred, nothing I say! I'm going to set my browser to your web site, then drive a nail through my monitor. That will show you who's serious.
Posted by: Jason W | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
The pages make me a little sad, but I recognize I'm pretty irrational when it comes to books. Took me the better part of the first year of college to be willing even to write notes in a textbook.
Posted by: mr_p | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Bravo.
But why a rusty nail? I thought it took wooden stakes or silver bullets to kill the undead?
A reply to a comment on a prior post who compared this to destroying a family heirloom or something to that effect, These things are mass produced by the thousands, if not more everyday. It was by no means a rare or one of a kind item. No catholic had to forgo communion because of a shortage of crackers.
When everything becomes sacred, then nothing is.
Anyway, the world seems to not have ended. Everyone as you were.
Posted by: DaveX | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Absolutely perfect, PZ-- glad to see you did this right. I also appreciate the historical leadup, which was very interesting.
Gotta wonder, though... how long before some nutjob sees the face of Jebus in the coffee stains?
Posted by: Tom Morris | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
A sacred cracker gets crucified. Now only a few weeks filled with crazy zealots and concern trolls.
Posted by: raven | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
What sort of morons name a university after a torturer who condemned Giordano Bruno to burn at the stake and almost torched Galileo. Both for thinking that the earth orbits the sun. Must be for the Catholics who are desperately homesick for the middle ages.
Posted by: Michael | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
I can't wait to hear what Richard Dawkins thinks of this. :)
Dawkins would pad PZ on the back saying job well done you showed how science disproved the wafer being God. And since you got some bad responses it clearly justifies you in provoking such anger in the first place. Your such a martyr for the militant atheist cause which is a movement to wipe out religion all together. Oh that was also a lovely picture of the Quran I wish I could hang that up on my wall.
People with common sense just shake their heads, them militant atheists are like little kids fighting on a playground or in an alley somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if someone burns PZ picture...lol
Posted by: Kylgar | July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
Ah, well said and well played.
It is, after all, *just* a cracker.
...and *just* paper.
...and *just* a banana
(the latter of which, I have had and will have, no nightmares regarding, I'd like to add)
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
#133: You might be right about that, PZ.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
May God have mercy on you.
Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of hell. Please lead all souls to heaven especially those most in need of thy mercy. Amen.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Wow. I've never considered myself an acolyte of yours PZ (I just happen to also be a liberal atheist who's prone to ranting at stupidity), but I might have to become one now.
This little dénouement of yours, including the Judge Jones-esque preamble on the history of host desecration, was fitting, tactful, and if I may, somewhat graceful. No bloodthirsty foaming at the mouth like the goddies hoped for ("He hates the cracker! More proof of God's love!"), no disgusting freak show antics, but a simple statement of our intent as activist atheists: toss those sacred relics out with the rest of the things we no longer need. Bye-bye to gods, be they deities or Dawkinses or Darwinses.
I was wondering if you'd have the guts to toss out The God Delusion, though. We Darwinist atheists invented Hitler, you know.
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell. But you are a good candidate...hahahaha
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 24, 2008 2:36 PM
Kind of a waste of a rusty nail, if you ask me.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
I do like the anti-climax. Hell, one could even argue that the nail was a fitting tribute to Xian superstition.
It's diplomatic (and safer--which should be aimed for) to "violate" various supposedly sacred texts.
By the way, though, I don't know if a Quran in English really counts. The "real Quran" is believed to be only the Arabic version. Not that some Muslims wouldn't be offended by "violating" an English translation, it's just that the "real offense" would probably require the original Arabic.
Just saying.
I'm certainly not suggesting a re-do with an Arabic version, of course. That, too, is a silly superstition.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Ken | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Good work PZ! It has been fun to see just how seriously these religious nuts take their religion. I would love to see any of them justify their reactions using their own holy book. As a recovering christian I would especially love to hear how they think their Jesus would react to this. I am fairly certain they will not find passages where Jesus commanded people to threaten someone or their family with physical harm. Again, the whole episode has shown the fundie true colors.
Posted by: Greg | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Well done. As far as the lack of Muslim complaints go, Zizek noted that European Muslims found that they allies were atheists after the Danish comic controversy.
Posted by: Ticktockman | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
So now, evidently, you've harmed (and caffeinated) Jesus. I've been wondering which *part* of Jesus, exactly has been harmed; which blessed bodily bit of flesh is the cracker. Since dogmatically speaking, Jesus is whole and eternal and all that in Heaven, it must be some part of his allegedly sinless flesh that didn't make the trip, perhaps some part of the, er, Holy of Holies separated at a young age.
Just *picture* it, my Catholic friends, chewing over that bit as it transubstantiates in your gullet. Holy indeed.
-TTm
Posted by: MicroZealous | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
So, will Dawkins now show stigmata? I'm confused.
Also, why are some people so eager to see this end? This is great entertainment for a long, hot summer.
May Thor forgive you all, then torture you.
Peace and Love ;
Posted by: Andrew Cramb | July 24, 2008 2:37 PM
Well done PZ. I can't imagine a more appropriate post.
BRAVO!!!
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
How did you manage to get a nail *through* one of those brittle crackers? I would expect it to simply break...
Perhaps I should repeat the experiment. You know, for science and stuff.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
Oh, no, link didn't work!
Chiquita song
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised.
Myers, I had hoped you would prevent you perverted desire from taking hold but you gave in. I still hold out hope for you somehow despite this.
Posted by: Hilary | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
Nothings sacred are you nuts? Every sperm is sacred, especially mine! I give each one a name and would provide them with crackers but thy have no mouths and as such eating (and screaming) are right out.
Posted by: Charades | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
@ #151: Oh, please.
*applauds PZ's brilliant blasphemy* Great job!
Pax Nabisco, people!
Posted by: Nick Winnick | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
From V for Vendetta:
Finch explains to Party leader Adam Susan the transcript of a recording made as V assassinates Archbishop Tony Lilliman.
Mr. Finch: There's something that sounds like "Kill me sentiment"... just gibberish... and then they talk about Communion and the Communion Wafer...There's the word "Transubstantiation": That's the miracle of Transubstantiation when the wafer transforms into the Body of Christ. Catholic concept originally. There, now listen to this...
V (on tape): And at the moment this enters your mouth it becomes the flesh of the Saviour?
Archbishop Lilliman (on tape): Yes. Yes. Look, please...
V (on tape): And whatever it is made of now, it will become the Body of Christ?
Archbishop Lilliman (on tape): Yes. Whatever it is now. Whatever.
V (on tape): I want you to swallow it.
Mr. Finch: And then there's a funny little human noise. And then there's just Beethoven's Fifth. End of tape. We've just had the Path reports through. The Bishop was poisoned. The Host was full of cyanide. And do you know what? When it reached his abdomen it was still cyanide.
Posted by: raven | July 24, 2008 2:38 PM
What sort of morons name a university after a torturer who condemned Giordano Bruno to burn at the stake and almost torched Galileo. Both for thinking that the earth orbits the sun. Must be for the Catholics who are desperately homesick for the middle ages.
Posted by: very clever | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Dear Mr. Meyers,
I don't think you can claim unconcerned contempt for the host with the treatment that you've given it. Well, perhaps contempt, but not a lack of concern. Where did you find this rusty nail that you drove through the crotch of this jesus cracker? If you had to go searching for a rusty nail for just this purpose, your claim to a lack of concern loses its force. If you happen to have rusty nails sitting about, why?
As for desecration, there are many options you could have entertained, yet you chose to make a minor spectacle. You could have, as a colleague of mine suggests, painted it pink and placed it in a urinal in a church; you could have nailed it to a tree, or you could even have chosen to ignore it completely... Why the minor spectacle?
But seriously, the coffee and banana are a nice touch.
Posted by: Rodney Trotter | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Still haven't made my mind up about this. As an atheist (Russell agnostic technically) I don't respect crazy beliefs that tradition says we should; but there is a level of provocation here I feel slightly uncomfortable about.
I've been trying to think of a suitable analogy - the closest I got was taking a sacred Hindu cow and making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple. Does that not make you feel slightly strange?
Posted by: adam | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Quote from
http://markshea.blogspot.com/
Repeatedly tried to get Myers to verify the "death threat" bit, but was shouted down by the throngs of Myers cultists who took the claim on faith
Oh the irony
Posted by: Hilary | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Nothings sacred are you nuts? Every sperm is sacred, especially mine! I give each one a name and would provide them with crackers but thy have no mouths and as such eating (and screaming) are right out.
Posted by: rob | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Mark: Eucharist!
Jack: Cojones!
KJ: Sacrilege!
PZ: It's only a cracker.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Except for the odd spaghetti and banana worshipers, I'm not seeing a lot of god-bots posting on this thread yet.
Is the infestation over?
Posted by: aiabx | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Well done, PZ. That's a history lesson worth learning there.
Posted by: No One of Consequence | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
It would not surprise me in the least to find out that a group of Catholics would go through PZ's trash, or even to the local dump to search for the Eucharist and then take it back to a church, douse it in "Holy Water" and then give it a "proper" burial.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
*claps*
Posted by: Gary Hilson | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
You rock.
Posted by: Epinephrine | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Bwahaha.... if there were any way of proving that a host had been consecrated, it would lend at least some weight to the argument that it is special. But there isn't. All the "accidents" of the wee wafer are the same. There can't be proof, because there is no transubstatiation.
Posted by: tsig | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
Ite missa est.
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 24, 2008 2:39 PM
I knew the first thing that would happen is that the loons would claim it is a fake cracker. The one I chose to photograph is one that the sender actually provided video documentation of where it came from.
Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version.
Posted by: skyblue | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
We're going to have to demand that the St. Paul police increase security and put a cordon around these nasty "Catholics" who say they're coming to the city to worship their gods at the RNC convention. They've already made numerous threats of violence and death to local residents. We can't have them wandering among the public.
Posted by: Aden B | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Excellently done, PZ.
Posted by: Randy | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Well said, of course, and AJ Milne @ #12 - also well said. Right to the crux of the matter, I'd say.
A little less seriously, I was saddened to find that PZ's heart is not only uncircumsized, but hard as well. Not just the arteries from all the filthy things we're all sure an eeeevil man like him does to his own body, but the entire heart. That's unfortunate.
As for myself, I must admit to a bit of ambivalence about being called an acolyte. On the one hand, no one has ever called me that before and it sort of has a nice ring to it - on the other hand I get the sneaky feeling mark Shea didn't mean it in a very nice way.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Analogies? Which crazy one were you again? There's so many we lost track.Posted by: Clock | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
The "surprise entry" was pages from the God Delusion? Brilliant! Very impressive show, PZ. Well played.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
*claps*
Posted by: Reed Braden | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM
Wooo! Carnage!
Posted by: James | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
I love it! This thread will go to infinity three times over!
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I'm sure God wouldn't burn in hell. But you are a good candidate...hahahaha
Posted by: zer0 | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Well said.
Posted by: Canuck | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Well, before this thread gets to the thousands, let me just say that I'm very curious to see how long it takes for the bloviating Donohue to issue another press release, how long it takes for the hordes of believers to register their outrage, and how long before the first Muslim shows up. I think this may draw one into the fray. But we await with bated breath.
Posted by: Joe Cracker | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
The Donahues will have a big problem here. There is no way for them to prove that the cracker was consecrated.
I DARE THEM TO PROVE THAT THE NAILED CRACKER IS JESUS!
You really nailed it, PZ!
Posted by: MT | July 24, 2008 2:41 PM
Bravo PZ!
The anti-climax is genius. This post reads, from top to bottom, like one of your brilliant science posts that attracted me to this site in the first place.
No ranting or vulgarities that would prevent sensitive souls from reading it or make it inappropriate for sharing with children - just a recitation of historical facts and logic conclusions.
This is the art of teaching, in the finest sense of the word.
Posted by: Jim RL | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Well done with the documentation PZ. That is more evidence then we'll ever get for any recognized "miracle" by the church.
Posted by: idahovic | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
This is such a enlightening and fun post it ought to be illegal. Oh, wait...
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Ordinarily, I would agree, but a Catholic (in another thread) asserted that:
Me, I've argued that desecration of crackers is impossible anyway, but no one listens to me.
Posted by: kb9aln | July 24, 2008 2:42 PM
Excellent.
PZ, you continue to get my respect for your lucid treatment of the issue.
All the best to you and yours.
Posted by: Yoo | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Seeing what Catholics have actually said to PZ, I have a hard time believing my eyes when I read a lot of Christians saying that he's the one that needs to get a grip. Threatening to disrespect a single wafer among trillions (probably an underestimate by a few orders of magnitudes) versus death threats? And there are people who actually consider the former a more serious offense? I can only hope that such people will be able to learn basic human decency that is common to most of humanity, instead of clinging to their religious faith used to justify horrendous things.
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
How did you manage to get a nail *through* one of those brittle crackers? I would expect it to simply break...
Perhaps I should repeat the experiment. You know, for science and stuff.
Posted by: Kim | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Well done PZ. At least you are consistent, and it is good that you treat Evangelical Atheism the same way as Evangelical Catholicism........
Posted by: Jason W | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
The pages make me a little sad, but I recognize I'm pretty irrational when it comes to books. Took me the better part of the first year of college to be willing even to write notes in a textbook.
Posted by: Don O'Treply | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
what - no Velveeta® on this cracker? And I was hoping for a recipe for Nacho Cheesus.
At any rate, PZ, you've done the world (another) favour by pointing out how vile the Catholic "religion" really is. Truly disgusting, the lot of them.
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised.
Myers, I had hoped you would prevent you perverted desire from taking hold but you gave in. I still hold out hope for you somehow despite this.
Posted by: anevilmeme | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
PZ I have officially added you to my list of heros!
Posted by: K | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
PZ totally PWND Jesus
Posted by: Andrew Cramb | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Well done PZ. I can't imagine a more appropriate post.
BRAVO!!!
Posted by: Nick | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM
I've been reading your blog for a while but this is my first comment. I must say, this is one of the finest pieces of expression I've seen on the topic and is a marvelous example of how to respond to religious fanatics with both class and witticism.
Bravo!
Posted by: MT | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Bravo PZ!
The anti-climax is genius. This post reads, from top to bottom, like one of your brilliant science posts that attracted me to this site in the first place.
No ranting or vulgarities that would prevent sensitive souls from reading it or make it inappropriate for sharing with children - just a recitation of historical facts and logic conclusions.
This is the art of teaching, in the finest sense of the word.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
"making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple. Does that not make you feel slightly strange?"
Poor analogy only in that this wasn't done outside a mosque or church (as far as we know).
Taking pictures of the steak and posting them on a blog would be more like it.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Celtic_Evolution (#144) wrote:
Excellent suggestion. I will try my best to not respond to the Catholic insanity that's sure to come.
I hope the Catholics who come here read PZ's excellent summary of Catholic atrocities.
Catholics don't throw people in gas chambers anymore, and they no longer murder people who refuse to eat crackers, but this cracker incident proves beyond any doubt Catholics are still the most immoral people in human history.
Posted by: John Swindle | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Wonderful. Appropriate. Well considered. Beautifully stated. Highly moral.
Exactly what I would've said if I were articulate enough to do so.
And you even included a Python reference.
Today, PZ, you are the King of Blogdom.
Posted by: Preston | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM
Cool. It is, indeed, just a cracker.
And I'm glad you included some pages from the God Delusion, to emphasize the idiocy of holding ANYTHING sacred.
Posted by: Leukocyte | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
[Yawn]... I can't wait for this to die down and go away. I stay away from church so I can think about things that actually matter without having to deal with the crazies. Now the crazies are all over my favorite blog. Can we please cleanse our palate with some more blogging about developmental biology papers? Everyone knows that jargon-laden research papers are to fundamentalists as sunlight is to vampires.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Now, if only there were a true account of the time wasted over a single piece of baked wheat paste.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: No One of Consequence | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
[poe]
Look at the picture closely. I'm sure there is a Dilbert cartoon in the trash as well. You can just see the corner of it underneath the book.
Alert the Dilbots!!!!
[/poe]
Posted by: Pablo | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
And, whereas sexual abuse is certainly the pinnacle of it, others, such as myself, were abused in other ways. For example, my second grade teacher, Sister Claire Marie Meyer never hesitated to hit us for doing bad things, like coloring outside the lines in art class. She would hit us with whatever she had conveniently in her hand, which could be a ruler, or the handle of a scissors. If she didn't have anything in her hand, she would just turn around her big fat nun ring and slap us upside the back of the head with the stone.
Again, we were in second grade. Find your nearest 8 year old and start whacking them over the head with solid objects.
Talk about a coward.
But at least she never desicrated a host, right?
Posted by: JT Eberhard | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Good riddance. Well done Dr. Myers. You are appropriately brave, and your arguments are sensible and well-written.
Tonight, we shall toast your name in Springfield.
JT
Posted by: Kim | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
Well done PZ. At least you are consistent, and it is good that you treat Evangelical Atheism the same way as Evangelical Catholicism........
Posted by: stevogvsu | July 24, 2008 2:45 PM
PZ,
This night I will drink (copiously) and have sinful vigorous sex in your honor.
Posted by: Mike B | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Well done PZ; it proves that atheists have more compassion and forgiveness than all the religions combined.
Posted by: llewelly | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Uhh... Is there a weird sect of Catholicism which circumcises the heart?Posted by: DaveH | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
PZ MYERS WILL DIE...eventually, and, emmm...that will be the end of it for him, like everyone else. Personally, if I'm still around at the time, I will mourn the passing of a great educator. Slainte mha!
Posted by: Ken E. | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
I've been following this a bit but, I'm sorry, religion just isn't worth all this effort.
Posted by: HumanisticJones | July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
I have to say, I think the high point of all of this was the pages from TGD in the trash with everything else. One could have attempted to hamstring your argument of holding nothing sacred by claiming that you can dish it out, but not take it. However, I think that it would have been more impacting if you had done this with Origin of Species... you know... since we Atheists apparently worship Darwin.
Bravo for the wonderful post before that unsurprisingly anti-climactic picture of trash in a trash can.
Posted by: OneMadClown | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Bravo, Professor.
Posted by: SC | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
I wouldn't mind one of those, if they're just sitting around. :)
Posted by: GAtheist | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Funny how Donohue threatened to tell CAIR that PZ was going to desecrate a Koran when it was his band of cracker crusaders that were the ones demanding PZ do it...
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:47 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: Preston | July 24, 2008 2:48 PM
Cool. It is, indeed, just a cracker.
And I'm glad you included some pages from the God Delusion, to emphasize the idiocy of holding ANYTHING sacred.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Amazingly well put.
Now, hopefully, sanity will return here.....maybe with the help of a ban hammer.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: unicow | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Wonderful post. Wonderful desecration.
Can we talk about cephalopods now?
Posted by: gir | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Zombie jebus cracker will eat your brains.
Posted by: Bryan | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
Pete Rooke #221
"And still no one has substantively countered my analogies. I'm not surprised."
And the conceit of the faithful continues...
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:49 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: arensb | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
I see no response yet from either Bill Donohue (d/b/a the Catholic League) or Richard Dawkins.
Anyone wanna bet which one has more important things to do than comment on this, like wash the dog, and which one will throw a tantrum as soon as he recovers from the vapors?
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
You know what would be nice is a substantive post right about now.
This whole cracker business is too meaningless, and I hope that it will die down soon. It's hard to believe that either side can invest as many electrons to this business as they have.
Something meaningful on this blog would be most welcome right now.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
Jesus?
Jesus!?
JESUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!
Posted by: Kent | July 24, 2008 2:50 PM
Alah Akbar alert
This website link will be given to all the radical jihadis on youtube. You wanted attention so now you will get it.
Second rate, anybody can come university attention seeker will now get attention from the "religion of peace"
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Fuck. A nail through a cracker is very mild in comparison with the
thingspeople the Catholics were fond of putting them through. I don't think Bruno and Vanini appreciated the sharp metal objects.Here's a short list of things which are not goddamned crackers.
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: Snark | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Well done! My salutations.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: JustaTech | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Oh no PZ! Now the librarians will be after you. Nancy Pearl will lead them in their charge on you and terrify you with their "sushing action". Lo, feel the ground tremble! *Much humor* Seriously, good job.
Posted by: Morris | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Thanks for your enlighting us.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: waldteufel | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Thanks, P.Z.
This was one of your very best posts.
Posted by: Interested reader | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally moronic, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 2:51 PM
Strange, I thought everyone here looked for compelling evidence for everything before coming to a conclusion. There's no evidence given by Dr. Myers that this host was actually consecrated. I, for one, don't believe it.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Won't Way of the Master be upset that you desecrated a banana?
Posted by: Fiziker | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Still seems a little too complicated for what it's worth. I think it was the right choice to go for something simple. As I was reading, I thought that flushing it down the toilet might be appropriately simple, but I realized that God might smite you by backing up your toilet.
Well done, PZ!
Posted by: Vince | July 24, 2008 2:52 PM
Well done Prof. Myers. I will raise a glass of Jack Daniels to you.
So when is this going to get national press coverage? NY Times? The Today Show?...oh forget it. Random thoughts seep out now and then.
Posted by: Michael Edmondson | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Wow. I may have to make an animation of this...
Posted by: Ken Cope | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Well done. Nothing is sacred. No idea is above challenge. In the words of Lenny Bruce, "Everybody's ass is up for grabs." At first it appears too studied to achieve that epic Zen casualness, but the randomness of coffee grounds, rusty nail (I wonder if Luther used a rusty nail to pound his message into the church door?) and overripe banana peel really tie it together. Titling the entire mess a God Delusion simultaneously twits and pays homage to the Zen Roshi of Atheism. What you did to the cracker is an apt punishment and a victimless crime.
Here's to the day when it can truly be said that religion is just dessert. As pictured, it sure looks like an ugly mess of a main course.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Let freedom ring.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
I've been trying to think of a suitable analogy - the closest I got was taking a sacred Hindu cow and making a decent barbeque from it in front of the temple.
FAIL. If you haven't noticed, this is happening on his blog, which does not show up by magic on people's computers. They have to come here to see it. The proper analogy would be having a barbeque at his own house. I'm sure no good Catholic has ever had a barbeque at their house before, out of concern for offending Hindus, right?
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Posted by: someone221 | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally stupid, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Posted by: Macron | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
You should have treated it like the cracker that it is and just eaten it for a snack.
Posted by: Inky | July 24, 2008 2:53 PM
*Standing ovation*
Nicely done; and I mean the text.
I didn't give a crap what you did with what.
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: mk | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
For Michelle at #205
That was funny as hell! Thanks for the crack up.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
PZ:
Nor any insubstantial difference, either, no?
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
"Class dismissed."
Posted by: Cleon | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
You know, I had a very similar thought.
Posted by: NoAstronomer | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Nice move including the God Delusion, that was a surprise.
Posted by: RamblinDude | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
Well done.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 2:54 PM
I totally know what you mean. He's worse than those devil-spawn children who claimed to be molested just to give the church a black-eye, or those who claim that Galileo was excommunicated and held under house arrest for claiming that the Earth was not the centre of the solar system, when in fact it was Galileo who persecuted those scientific men of God in the Vatican. In fact, the world is so hostile to Catholics that, fearing more repercussions like the Crusades (a Freemason frame job), the Vatican didn't feel safe coming out with their heliocentric findings until 1992.
Besides, no one's ever been able to prove Mary wasn't a virgin and why would so many people risk their lives for a lie if the bible isn't true and what about frozen waterfalls and how come nobody's ever seen a consecrated host evolve into a pumpernickel? I can't wait to see how you Myers-ists try to deny God's love when you're all burning in Hell for eternity!
Posted by: dale | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Dominoes Nabisco, et cum sirit tu tuo.
Posted by: Janus | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Brilliant post, PZ. We're very lucky to have you as one of the champions of reason.
Posted by: Fiziker | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Still seems a little too complicated for what it's worth. I think it was the right choice to go for something simple. As I was reading, I thought that flushing it down the toilet might be appropriately simple, but I realized that God might smite you by backing up your toilet.
Well done, PZ! I'm glad that no blood squirted out of the host when you stabbed it.
Posted by: Guido | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
Great.
Excellent.
Now, all they have to do is pray. Right? The Lord listens to them
Right?
Come on, people, stop writing e-mails. Have TRUE faith.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:55 PM
I would find that totally funny... If I could figure out if you're serious or joking.I'll go with joking cuz that's a great parody cartoon you just described there. :) (Cuz if you're serious... That's not very christian of you!)
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
* golf clap *
Posted by: Ash | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
beautifully written, beautifully 'executed'. thank you Professor.
Posted by: Dahan | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
Why'd ya have to do that to a nail! As a designer and builder, don't you know what that nail represents to me! What that symbolizes? Damn you! I'd rather you would have come over and skinned my cats than to defile the sacred nail. I'll be praying to the almighty hammer for you.
Ok, with that, keep up the excellent blog PZ. Thanks.
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
"Class dismissed."
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
I just want to throw in my support for a job well done, PZ. Throwing away those items harms no one, and you've at least brought the issue of freedom of speech to the forefront of a lot of people's minds, right where it needs to be. Most of those people have been Catholics though, since the majority of atheists already favor and defend free speech regularly. Now we just have to wait and see if there are any Catholic Leaguers out there who poses the ability to look at this situation rationally and realize that you had, and continue to have, all the right in the world to perform this act.
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: mayhempix | July 24, 2008 2:56 PM
You "nailed it" PZ.
Now we wait for the crucifying to come from Donawhore, et al.
Posted by: Jeff Arnold | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
BRAVO!
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
You ripped up a copy of "The God Delusion"? Richard Dawkins will surely strike you down with a great bolt of NOTHING!
Posted by: Jeff Arnold | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
BRAVO!
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
Michelle: "Analogies? Which crazy one were you again? There's so many we lost track."
An uncomfortable truth still remains a truth. Here is the compilation:
1) Suppose you were a milkman with rotting teeth and cankerous lips. Before delivering each milk bottle you would take a swig and place it on the doorstep. You continued to abuse you privileged access to other people's milk for years. Then one day you decide to retire. Before you leave however, you let all of your customers know what you've been engaged in by letter while also leaving a picture of your cankerous mouth under each bottle. You have gleefully proclaimed your actions to all who will listen. No one was physically harmed and yet every customer (read: Catholic) affected feels deeply violated and abused. PZ Myers is effectively that milkman.
2) Suppose your are an embalmer. You are busy embalming a person for an open coffin ceremony and you decide to pilfer there lush locks of blonde hair for the construction of high class wigs (a business you have going on the side).
This person happens to be a Sikh. In order to hide the fact you have stolen their hair you then purchase a cheap synthetic wig and replace it. In the small print of the contract (which the distraught family don't read carefully enough) you make mention of this.
After the event you then decide to publicize this gleefully on a blog. No physical harm has been done to either person and yet I would argue that this is equivalent to PZ Myer's theft and subsequent desecration of the Eucharist publicized on his blog (of which extra web traffic generates money).
3) Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing called a mini-skirt these days. The material is often sheer and by its definition does not even come close to covering the knee roll.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniskirt)
Now if someone chooses to wear such an item it does not in the least bit make rape and sexual abuse permissible despite the fact that the odds increase exponentially. In both the eyes of the secular law and of my religion the assailants are still just as culpable.
So merely because Catholicism may seem like a remarkably soft target for PZ Myers (he has since been roped into desecrating the Koran) he is still as culpable as someone who chooses to attack say the more benign and watered down religions of Quakerism/Unitarian-Universalism.
4) Suppose you had a very sacred book outlining your philosophy on life. This book also happened to be stitched together and bound in the skin and flesh of a loved one who had recently passed away.
Now desecrating the Eucharist would have the same effect as desecrating that book and posting the evidence in glee.
Posted by: Jay | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
That's just it. These people live their lives based on the "what if". They don't actually believe, but they are scared into acting as if they do because they are afraid of being wrong.
Posted by: Inky | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
*Standing ovation*
Nicely done; and I mean the text.
I didn't give a crap what you did with what.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: Jon | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Mercy. You're doing it wrong.
Posted by: Gus C | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Nothing must be held sacred.
Exactly!! People come up to me and say they respect that I am atheist. I tell them to fucken not!
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Excellent! Congratulations! You may be on the path to recovery. Just start subjecting ALL ideas that are presented to you to this very same treatment. It may feel a little bit funny at first, but you will get used to it. Eventually, you will start abandoning bullshit... until you abandon the last god that you still cling to. This will be good: you will be able to walk around without you security blanket... And it will free your mind.
Posted by: The skepTick | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Great show. Let freedom ring. Let reasonable minds prevail.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
Wow I think this all caused a terrible server comment lag. Comments are bumping into each other so much that the comments numbers are moving up and down and some comments are being fitted inbetween.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
PZ,
surprisingly, I have to say, seing this picture: I really don't care about this desecregation-thing.
But you should think about seperating your biological waste from paper. I don't know how that is handled in the U.S. but here in Germany they would tell me to keep my garbage if I don't care for recycling (there are actual laws about that). That in fact I found much more offensive than the desecregation (though, of course, hardly offensive at all).
But the Koran and the cracker - It just so doesn't concern me. What deluded moron could possible care about that? I am afraid, we are to see...
Wish you luck,
Andy
Posted by: bellerophon | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
PZ,
Good job, brilliantly conceived, spectacularly finished. As said, you deserve a standing ovation for that. A second G&T's hoisted up for you tonight in London. (We can turn this into a flashmob drinking session, people, just a thought.)
I can imagine the Catholics furor now. Either they're gonna go on "demonizing" you, or they're gonna call you a coward because you haven't recorded it live, you don't show proof that the cracker's consecrated, etc. Either way, it's gonna be so much fun to watch.
Thanks PZ, and homage to your big balls of steel.
Posted by: Nelson M. | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
I hope we can all get on with our respective lives now.
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
I just want to throw in my support for a job well done, PZ. Throwing away those items harms no one, and you've at least brought the issue of freedom of speech to the forefront of a lot of people's minds, right where it needs to be. Most of those people have been Catholics though, since the majority of atheists already favor and defend free speech regularly. Now we just have to wait and see if there are any Catholic Leaguers out there who poses the ability to look at this situation rationally and realize that you had, and continue to have, all the right in the world to perform this act.
Posted by: mayhempix | July 24, 2008 2:58 PM
You "nailed it" PZ.
Now we wait for the crucifying to come from Donawhore, et al.
Posted by: Turdus | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Well said PZ. I especially liked the part about "sacrilege to the host" as an excuse to murder non-believers. This blog got a lot of attention from a lot of people, PZ. I think the thing that drives Catholics crazy the most about the whole affair is that YOU DID GET SOME PEOPLE THINKING, especially young people who saw this, in spite of assurances otherwise. That is really what is driving them NUTS!
Posted by: kestrien | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Watch out, P.Z., they're coming...
...to pray for you.
"What would he do if Catholics and other Christians, and even sympathetic members of other faiths, turned up en masse on his campus simply to pray quietly for him?"
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/07/pz-myers-desecrates-the-euchar.html
For some reason, I think he might stop by to say "hey," then go about his business.
Posted by: Parker | July 24, 2008 2:59 PM
Fantastic end to a fantastically pitiful display of human progression and rational thinking.
I'm glad you desecrated the God Delusion to show that we don't even take our own books that seriously.
Oh but Kirk Cameron's gona be soooo pissed that you trashed his yellow proof of gawd.
Posted by: JackC | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
May I have permission - or is it implied here - to copy your "If I wanted to..." portion of this? Positively spot-on.
JC
Posted by: Kent | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Alah Akbar alert. ...........Attention getter lol
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Sending this to islamic jihadist websites
Posted by: Tony Phillips | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
I guess I understand why...you see religion as dangerous. Ok I get it, I don't agree but I get it. I see Godlessness as being even more dangerous...and we could go back and forth all day with examples of how the Catholic church did this terrible thing and how communists and other athiest organizations did that terrible thing. (Funny how you left that out of your litany of people who killed in the name of belief.)
But you know what's really funny? Your picture is a fake. I handle unconcecrated hosts every day and concecrated hosts every week, just like the one in your picture. If you even pressed the tip of a nail to a host it would crack into pieces. So that nail sticking right through it is a product of some picture editing software. So I guess you didn't do all you say you did. It makes me wonder if you did any of the other stuff. Interesting...confusing but interesting.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: deadvole | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
PZ, will you be my stand-in grandpa when I move to Minnesota? Because I need one as awesomely cool and eloquent as you. Very beautifully handled, that.
Posted by: Vic | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Dr. Myers, my hat's off to you. That's better than anything I could've dreamed up, and the real cherry on the sundae is that this is one of your best blog posts ever - enlightening, informative, incisive, and ever-so-quotable.
Plus, of course, imagining what the riled-up-hordes will do with the image of the God Delusion 'desecrated' along with their fetish items.
Posted by: Ric | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
I have an uncircumcised heart and an uncircumcised penis, and I'm happy about both.
That was a beautifully written essay, PZ. Screw the stupid cracker.
Posted by: Randy | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Kent @ #260:
Do you know a lot of "radical jihadis"? Hmmm, expect the NSA and Homeland Security to come down your parents basement stairs any moment.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
someone221 sez:
Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally stupid, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus.
Is that what it took for you, someone221, or were you just naturally mentally deficient enough to believe that a little round cracker is your God? c^_^ɔ
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: Ben D | July 24, 2008 3:00 PM
If you believe that truth is relative, why can't you respect what "my truth" is? I believe that the host becomes Jesus. You don't. I respect that you don't believe; I have no issue with your disbelief. I don't make fun of you for not believing. As a fellow human, I would have expected the respect to be reciprocal.
Posted by: Pierre | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Magnificent post, PZ. I hope the religiously inclined will
read it carefully. I mean REALLY read it, and understand it,
not just browse the picture and complain. There's nothing
evil here, nothing hateful. Just plain common sense, and
a reminder that freeing ourselves from religion is the
most moral thing that we humans can do. It's just a cracker.
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Another echo from an acolyte here. Good work.
"This whole cracker business is too meaningless, and I hope that it will die down soon. It's hard to believe that either side can invest as many electrons to this business as they have."
Right, I'm afraid this blog has become too silly, and I'll 'ave to shut it down.
And the really troublesome part is as it gets more crowded, this thread will end up having even more replies due to that warning message that pops up in times of heavy traffic, and people re-submitting even though they most likely don't have to.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Stop posting, Andy! The intertubes are all clogged up. Don't worry, you're getting through multiple times, it just takes awhile.
Posted by: Stark | July 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Well done sir. Well done.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
Lovely stuff and nicely done. Good on ya PZ
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
I'm proud humanity also consists of people like you, Mr Myers. Now, up to us to act with intelligence and humor.
Posted by: chigurh | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
adding the god delusion was clutch. well done!
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
PZ:
Nor any insubstantial difference, either, no?
Posted by: ash | July 24, 2008 3:02 PM
beautifully written, beautifully 'executed'. thank you professor.
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
Oh man, you desecrated coffee?
You will sure burn in hell for that one!
Hurray for a good set of... gills.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
@Tony Phillips
um...No. It's certainly a delicate operation sorta but it's perfectly doable. I actually already poked one of them crackers through. Not a church one, a "candy" one (who the fuck thought "hey let's use theses as candy"!? They're gross!) Yea, there was one on my birthday cake at one time. I poked a candle through it and it stayed in one piece. Honest to "god".
Anyway, if he couldn't do that, why did the church claim back then that the jews were doing it all the time?
Posted by: Dave2 | July 24, 2008 3:03 PM
Pete Rooke wrote:
Pardon me, but where are these analogies to be found? Not on this page, anyway.
Posted by: Andy | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
I'm so sorry for this repeated post above. It was unintended.
Shame upon me.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
PZ,
You should put the remains of that copy of The God Delusion on ebay, it may not be sacred but I for one wouldn't mind owning it.
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
Posted by Ticktockman and #178:
perhaps some part of the, er, Holy of Holies separated at a young age.
Just *picture* it, my Catholic friends, chewing over that bit as it transubstantiates in your gullet. Holy indeed
Ha! Nearly sprayed tea accross the room when i read this one.
Hehehe...
Posted by: Noadi | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
Beautiful job! I don't mean the actual desecration, I honestly don't care much about it other than being happy it's over. What you wrote though is the far more important thing for people to realize. Nothing is sacred or should be taken on faith, question, learn, give respect where it is earned and deserved not where it is demanded. If it takes seeing symbols destroyed for some to wake up and see it than it's worthwhile to do.
Posted by: jb | July 24, 2008 3:04 PM
"They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything."
Amen.
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Folks, this happens every time Myers Pharyngulates himself. Just hit the post button once and have faith that it will be carried by His Noodly Appendage to the comments where it belongs.
Posted by: tim gueguen | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Waaaaah, PZ is being a big meany by sucking up blog hits for yet another day! Traffic is down on mine, and I just know its because of this whole "cracker" business. This includes the outrage hits, as I have yet to have someone make an angry comment about my post claiming Mark Steyn is full of hot air, or that cocaine use won't make the Barenaked Ladies seem hip and edgy.
Posted by: Turdus | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Well said PZ. I especially liked the part about "sacrilege to the host" as an excuse to murder non-believers. This blog got a lot of attention from a lot of people, PZ. I think the thing that drives Catholics crazy the most about the whole affair is that YOU DID GET SOME PEOPLE THINKING, especially young people who saw this, in spite of assurances otherwise. That is really what is driving them NUTS!
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM
Now if someone chooses to wear such an item it does not in the least bit make rape and sexual abuse permissible despite the fact that the odds increase exponentially.
OH MY NON-EXISTENT GOD NO IT DOESN'T. Pete, feel free to have your bizarre and irrelevant analogies, but don't be spreading actual untruths. Clothing has nothing do do with frequency of rape. Amazingly enough, the only thing that correlates with probability of rape is the presence of a rapist. And using something as horrendous as rape as analogy to an event involving throwing a cracker in the trash can is so wrong I can't even express my contempt that you tried.
Posted by: mark | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
Pete at #310: There is nothing to respond to; what you've written is simply irrelevant nonsense.
I, too, cringe at the desecration of books!
Posted by: Melanogaster | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
This was way cool. Well done!
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
When I started writing my last comment, there were 214 posts. By the time the server accepted it there were 356. Wow.
Posted by: Cat's Staff | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
Oh come on...'third rate'....U of M Morris is better then that!
Posted by: Ben | July 24, 2008 3:06 PM
PZ, are we still on to go unicorn hunting this fall?
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Holy motherfucking christ, John, get a fucking life you spammer!
How come there's no character limit on this blog anyway?!
Posted by: Nina in London | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
P Z Myers in post #200 wrote
"Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version."
Hey, PZ is a comedian! To us Catholics, transubstantiation is *exactly* the difference. It is a wafer of wheat with the exactly the same form and taste as before the consecration, but after consecration the form is still of wheat but the substance is now the Body of Christ.
To share the bread is wonderful and beautiful sacrament, to those that believe - and surely worthy of respect. Those that eat the host are proclaiming "I am part of the Church and I believe in what it teaches and we are all one in Christ."
This incident is not going to damage the Church and I hope that it will strengthen people's faith and encourage people to find out about the Catholic faith in all its richness.
Incidentally, the Brompton Oratory, scene of the theft, is very beautiful and any visitors will enjoy the tranquility and reverent atmosphere, but please in future treat it and those that serve and worship there with respect.
Anyway, I would think that Jesus is having a good chuckle at all this. After all, he was renowned for eating with sinners rather than those who proclaimed themselves to be holy, the Gospels are full of dinners indoors and out. His message was one of forgiveness and encouragement.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Well Done, PZ!
You might want to start worrying about that banana, though.
Next thing you know, Ray Comfort & Kirk Cameron are going to come to Morris & paper your house with $1,000,000 bill tracts. See what you have started now?
By the way, I knew I was right a couple of threads back when I called out that coward to prove that UM Morris is a 4th tier University, as he so inaccuratly called it.
ps - I still think the Viking funeral would have been comical, yet dignified.
pps- The focus group results on ChristoCracker-Desecratingly Delicious haven't scored as high as we had hoped, so we sent the package down to marketing, & they have really done an outstanding job to upscale the product.
Announcing - CHRISTESSENCE Table Wafers - Baked in the Spirit
We're still working on the whole ad package, kind of a riff on the Keebler elves,
only with angels - what do you think?
...
..
.
Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
Lovely stuff, well done PZ
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 3:07 PM
It's the iron-fortified cracker.
By the way, to those offended, note what the Church itself did about all of this. Nothing.
Really, it does no good for the church (though it might convince you that you're good) to make a big deal about a common offense. I'm sure that much "worse" is done by many out of the public eye, so that you're not protesting the violation so much as the fact that it is well-known. Unfortunately (and I'm serious, I wish it had not been hyped), you are thereby ensuring that it will be even more well-known.
I wouldn't have done it, but that's my judgment, not to be confused with PZ's. I suggest giving it a rest.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Dear Mr Rooke, WTF is up with your miniskirt/rape obsession? You are a creep of the greatest magnitude.
Just to do some gratuitous priest-bashing... how many of those young male victims were wearing miniskirts, Mr Rooke?
Posted by: Kenny | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Of all the myriad ways I imagined you could deal with this cracker, I can't think of a more appropriate ending.
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Ale #316:
"Just start subjecting ALL ideas that are presented to you to this very same treatment."
Ahh, but I do. I will grant Dr. Myers the same level of evidence I accept from the apostles and their disciples: if an actual eyewitness (e.g. the person who gave him the host) or someone with direct contact with the eyewitness (e.g., presumably, Dr. Myers himself), is willing to die rather than recant his claim that the host was consecrated, I will be convinced that it was, in fact, consecrated.
Posted by: octopod | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
Couldn't have been done with any more style or substance. PZ, you're awesome.
Posted by: HolyRusk | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
whoops apology for repeated posts, the servers seem to have reached their final hour.
Posted by: merkin j. pus-tart | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
perfect . . .
Posted by: Jonathan | July 24, 2008 3:08 PM
I am shocked and outraged by your treatment of The God Delusion. That was unnecessary and hurtful to my beliefs.
Now, I'll have to kill you in some painful and horrific way. I'm a little busy at work right now, so it might have to wait. hmmm. Come to think of it, I'm on the west coast, so it's a little far for me to travel to... whatever state you're in. I hear there's states other than California and Los Vegas, but I don't know what they are... It would really help if you came here. Perhaps I could give you a good killing over lunch. I know a fantastic sushi place you'll just love. Tuesdays and Thursdays are best for me. Just give your number to my people, and they'll set something up for us.
Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.
Jonathan
Posted by: jfatz | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
How DARE you desecrate the holy writ of our Lord and Savior, Richard Dawkins? You will surely burn! BURRRRRN!
...you know. If you, like... go to the beach. And don't bring suntan lotion.
Posted by: abeja | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
Excellent!
Posted by: Steve P. | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
A post for the ages.
Posted by: pksp | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
I don't know why you had to waste a perfectly good copy of The God Delusion to prove your point? At least that book is geared towards opening minds.
With that said, well done.
Posted by: 5ive | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
@106
"The God Delusion is about what we don't believe; the Eucharist and the Koran are symbols of what other people do believe. I would've preferred a genuine work of science to be among the desecratees.
Vivek"
Wouldn't the banana count since it has been scientifically engineered to reach its current edible-tasty state? Not to mention the trash can itself and the book pages and the ink on the pages and the coffee grounds and the rust reaction with the metals of the nail are a direct "symbol" of "scientism", wait, the cracker, too, used science to be "created". Don't forget about the breath PZ was exhaling and inhaling while he did this, that counts as science as well.
I guess we desecrate science every freaking day.
Posted by: Chuck Lunney | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
Not that there's any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version
Wait, PZ! Didn't you mean there isn't any TRANSsubstantial difference?
And I heartily applaud including part of The God Delusion in this "public desecration". About the only thing missing was a page from Origin of the Species. Oh well -- can't have everything. Besides, it looked like your trashcan was getting full.
The prologue was worth the price of admission!
Congratulations on a spectacular non-event of less-than-epic proportions.
Posted by: Dr Doctor | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
John
Have you ever heard of keeping things brief?
PZ Myers, you turned this into an object lesson. Bravo.
Posted by: Alexander Treseder | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
imagine reading all of #355 and staying awake.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
John,
Nice copypasta. Do you feel better now?
Posted by: Spook | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
Shorter #355:
"blah blah magic man blah blah CRACKERS blah blah"
Posted by: BG | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
PZ - it'd be cool if the entire episode could be recapped with highlights so I can pass it along (like to my kids) without making people wade through 1,000s of comments.
My only fear is that PZ has jumped the shark.
Posted by: Mark | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
So, John at #355, are the contorted scribblings of deluded old men supposed to scare us?
Posted by: Matthew | July 24, 2008 3:10 PM
"No desecration would have taken place were the host not consecrated, and thus no Catholic would even bother to notice. Yet, PZ claims the host was consecrated. Let him prove hi8s claim. Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.
So, where's the proof, or is this place not about science after all?"
TG, that's a silly detail. The fact that the presence or absence of hand-waving and Latin mumbling near the cracker has any affect on whether Catholics should be pissed off or not just goes to highlight how incredibly stupid this mythology really is.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Just saw the proof video! This is not a matter of faith anymore! Thanks PZ, thanks mysterious dude! GOOD JOB!
Posted by: Ric | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Hey PZ, can you delete that long bullshit post that John made?
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
@ #373
That is only evidence for the strength of their beliefs. It's not evidence for the truth of their beliefs.
Posted by: Savagemutt | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
Very nice post. And you've handled the whole incident with remarkable restraint.
Posted by: Mohamed(real) | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
What a wild ride!
Posted by: Happy Girl 300 | July 24, 2008 3:11 PM
The only sacrilege in this case is a possible waste of food calories. If it had been a jar of peanut butter, that would have been MUCH worse.
Posted by: Erasmussimo | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
I have been following this brouhaha with mixed feelings. On the one hand, I agree that PZ Myers' actions have instructive value; sometimes it's salutary for somebody to blatantly challenge our assumptions in a flamboyant fashion. On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with deliberate attempts to hurt other people's feelings. Let's face it, Mr. Myers' actions do hurt the feelings of Catholics and are intended to do so. Does the educational value of Mr. Myers' actions outweigh the emotional hurt inflicted? I don't know. It is fundamental to human nature that nobody learns without some pain. The advance of civil rights in the 1960s took place only by inflicting some pain upon racists. It was justifiable because the pain they inflicted through their racism was greater than the emotional discomfort that was wrought upon them to change their ways. But does the diffuse injury to society inflicted by religion justify the specific emotional pain the Mr. Myers visits upon Catholics? I don't know.
My greatest concern, however, is not with the mainstream reaction to Mr. Myers' actions, but with the reactions from the wingnuts. There will surely be Catholics who react with ugly ferocity, and these few may further polarize the cultural response. Mr. Myers is taking a significant risk here; while I admire his courage, I fear that violence directed against him will polarize the situation and make healthy progress more difficult.
There is an opportunity for a positive result in all this: if members of the Catholic community firmly and loudly declare that the essence of Christianity demands that Catholics turn the other cheek and love Mr. Myers as much as they love themselves, then the nobler side of religion will be asserted and perhaps some progress will be made against the ignoble side of religion. At this point, the ball is in their court. The challenge has been placed upon them: is Catholicism a religion of love or a superstitious tribe? I retain some small optimism that perhaps the outcome will a happy one.
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
It's all just stuff. That says it all.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:12 PM
John (#355), thanks for the spam, but next time please just provide a link. Several screens of copying and pasting is a bit much.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
PZ, that was one of the most brilliant posts I have ever read, thank you so much for this!
Congratulations on the desecration, I hope it leads to mass cracker killings all around the nation.
Posted by: drjimmy | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
Well done, PZ. A wonderful essay and an appropriate final act to the drama.
Posted by: Mohamed | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
What a wild ride!
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
Or rather, replace it with a link. No censorship, it's just that no one's going to read it, hence it is so much spamming.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:13 PM
@John (www.catholic.com)
Come on, man! That was infantile. Am I posting the entire TimeCube page over at your blog? No, I did not think so... So why do you do it here?
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Posted by: Sarcastro | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
if you mean germany as a catholic nation 70 years ago, that's wrong, germany was (is) majority protestant (more then than now, as more secular germans have protestant than catholic background).
#1: Spain and Poland are both better contenders for what PZ was rattling on about.
#2: Look up the difference between 'majority' and 'plurality'. The latter is what Protestants in Germany are. The former is what they are not.
In fact, the single largest Christian denomination in Germany is Catholicism. Only when all Protestant denominations are added together do they outnumber the Catholics. And not by a whole lot.
Posted by: Joe | July 24, 2008 3:14 PM
The scene looks carefully staged what with the nail over two title pages that are facing us with the other trash off to the side. You are a schemer, PZ.
Posted by: sil-chan | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
I think its time to impliment a maximum limit to the length of a post due to people like John. Here I was going along reading posts and BAM... A huge pile of words fell on me >.>
Posted by: Doubting Foo | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
I agree with a few others above...you should have included the title page from Origin of Species...
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Fuck you, John.
Posted by: sQuee. | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Bravo. I generally thought all of this was well done and am quite pleased how the ending came about. There was definite proof that it occurred, although the cracker blends into the pages in the picture. You have to find the nail, then look for the cracker on the nail. I normally wouldn't have agreed with the nail, seemed a tad overboard, but made it very easy to see that there was indeed a dry, tasteless looking cracker at the end of said nail.
All in all, bravo.
Oh, and as a note: if a cracker is actually the body of someone (regardless of whom), Catholics are cannibals and should be thrown in jail. There have been a few cannibals in the past century who have claimed that they did it to become closer to God. Lovely, lovely religion you people have going on. Yeesh.
Posted by: Randy! | July 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Still working my way through the comments but wanted to get my "Bravo!" in here while the thread was still open.
I really like that any Catholic furbrains will have to try to read through the history of their religion before getting to the meat of the post. Perhaps one of them will get a bit of enlightenment...
Posted by: Rebecca Watson | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
Just chiming in to add my "nicely done," PZ. Well-written and educational response.
Posted by: ihatevi | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
#79 - LOL!!
Posted by: ErikFK | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
#355 John: nice copy and paste job. Now please go preach your neighbor's cows - and don't forget to pray for them.
To the actual topic: I'm impressed. PZ gave the whole story a excellent final turn, I can identify myself with - though I'm certainly far more respectful of religions than he is.
Posted by: TS Loosli | July 24, 2008 3:16 PM
Well Done PZ. Let the religious beat thier chests and stand on their hind legs. Unlike real apes, they are nothing to fear.
Kudos,
TS
Posted by: Bachalon | July 24, 2008 3:17 PM
Well said, Professor. Thank you.
Posted by: Philip H. | July 24, 2008 3:18 PM
"Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanities' knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind."
If you actually read Christian Scripture, you will see Jesus encouraging his followers to do EXACTLY THIS. That fact that humans, in all our wonderful wisdom, ignore Jesus call and teaching, doesn't mean he isn't right. He ate, afterall, with tax collectors and prostitutes, some of the most reviled people of his day.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:18 PM
John, go touch yourself, you're annoying.
Posted by: Voltaire | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Quite possibly the most elegant essay I've read this year. Thank you, sir.
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Again with the copypasta, John?
Thanks for verifying you have nothing to contribute. I was going to ask you to discuss what you had posted, but now I see you're not really equipped for that sort of rational discussion.
PZ, could you please remove John's novels from the comments page? Thx.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
In the great ledger sheet of Catholicism's virtues and vices, history would seem to trump optimism every time.
Posted by: qbsmd | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
Does this count as art? You might be able to get someone to buy your trash can.
Posted by: Rob | July 24, 2008 3:19 PM
It is appropriate that PZ destroyed books. Recall the library of Alexandria was burned by religious fanatics. I believe that the Catholic Church even canonized someone for the deed.
Posted by: Juan | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
PZ is the best!
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
@#393
Granted. This is why I stipulated that those professing the beliefs be eyewitnesses or have direct contact with eyewitnesses. I tend to believe eyewitness accounts when they are so strongly believed.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
That is meaningless. It is just an abuse of the English language. What you are in effect saying is that it is both the same and different. That is simply nonsensical. What properties does it have after consecration that it did not have before ? If there are no physical differences then there is no difference. Did you not do science at school or something ? There is an important concept in science, that basically states if you cannot tell two things apart then they are identical.
Posted by: GAtheist | July 24, 2008 3:20 PM
Fuck, we need a block user option. Spammer StJohn is a shitbag.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
PZ,
I too would like to add my sentiments before the thread gets too full. Well done!
Posted by: Adrienne | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Hey, I think I see the face of Jesus weeping in the banana peel. Seriously, though, I'm glad this is over. Enough of Wafergate.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Am I the only one that thinks John's long ass post can be aptly characterized as WHITE NOISE?
Posted by: Steve_C | July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Someone's IP address needs to be banned.
Fucktard.
Posted by: lytefoot | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
Wow... attacking FOUR sacred cows at once! The communion, the koran, the god delusion, and English grammar. I believe you meant to say "Humanity's knowledge," that is, the knowledge of just one humanity (say hooray to our friend, the collective noun!).
Just kidding with the spelling flame, of course--though if there's one thing that inflames my irrationality it's the desecration of the sacred apostrophe. Very good post, well written, showing excellent insight into the history of the issue--I only wish Xians showed as much insight into the history of their religion. Wanted to chime in and and that, ha ha, I won the betting pool around here, I suspected you'd throw it in the trash.
This whole thing started out as kind of childish, but it ended up fairly moving. Like a lot of your more thoughtful pieces, it ended up coming across as moving in the same way that a good church service does. (Note: I was raised Unitarian, this has shaped my perception of the way a church service Should Be. If you don't argue about it at least all the way home afterward, it wasn't any good.)
Good luck, PZ. Hope none of the violent crazies are also motivated. You might want to consider hiring a ninja.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
What kind of idiot is this? He did it again! 3 times now!
Killfile Dungeon!
Posted by: J.D. Hutton | July 24, 2008 3:22 PM
John:
tl;dr
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Delete the spammer(s), please. It is clear that when pressed to think for themselves, they resort to drowning themselves in mind-numbing blocks of meaningless text. Fine, but no reason the rest of us need to drown as well.
Posted by: ryanm | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
fuckin' A. Bravo, PZ. Though significant on a symbolic level, what you have done is so trivial, no, of no import WHATSOEVER compared to the vile barbarism perpetrated in the name of Catholicism. I single that one out just because they're the only ones who give a fuck about this goddamn cracker, and they've been so gracious as to show through their recent comments that vile barbarism is apparently alive and well in the ranks of the faithful. Good luck, and Reason-speed.
Posted by: Atticus | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Love it
Posted by: ThirtyFiveUp | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
As always, PZ is a teacher. And an accomplished writer. I did not know about the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 which led to repeated murders of Jews. Murdered because superstitious Christians believed bread could be Jesus.
By the way, I eagerly await publication of his book.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
"No way! Bananas have to be brown to taste right. Chiquita says so!"
All right, NOW we got blasphemy on our hands. Bananas are best when they have just a little green still on them. Only the fool in his heart says otherwise.
(Although browned bananas are still useful for making things like banana bread.)
Posted by: Kevin L. | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
You know, for all this gnashing of teeth over "where's the proof of consecration?" or "I thought this site was about SCIENCE and EVIDENCE" and "you're just accepting Myers' word on FAITH that it was real," whatever... There's one critical difference between accepting the word of, say, a priest, and accepting the word of PZ. PZ, unlike the priest, has demonstrated frequently and repeatedly that he is honest and credible, and, speaking for myself, I have no reason to doubt him now. Similarly, unlike, say, a religious zealout, Pharyngula enthusiasts, if faced with EVIDENCE that their trust was misplaced, will own up to their error.
A very nice post, PZ - a fitting way to end the madness. Now: more cephalopods, please! :)
Posted by: eguy | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
I love the Monty Python references. Although I disagree with your need provoke catholics I would agree with most of what you said. I mean death treats over a cracker. You can't make this stuff up.
Posted by: AaronSTL | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Well played, PZ but I still think you should have copied some text from the Koran onto the cracker and fed it to a willing Jewish person...maybe along with some bacon and a good beer.
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
@ #428
Yet in the case of Christianity you accept edited, translated, censored versions of second- or third-hand (or possibly more) eyewitness testimony.
One thing people are missing here is that there's two competing theories - that it was consecrated, or that it wasn't - and you need to compare the evidence for the two, not just demand evidence for one until it meets your expectations.
If you think it wasn't consecrated, present your evidence.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
The spammer is a sock puppet. He's used at least 3 names. I'm strongly against censorship, but I don't think deleting spam and deleting sock puppets is censorship.
Posted by: Exitus | July 24, 2008 3:23 PM
Ye Gods, this 'John' bloke is getting rather annoying. To the Dungeon with him!
Exitus
Posted by: Jolly Bloger | July 24, 2008 3:24 PM
PZ, this insult will not stand. I can't believe you did something so horrible to the God Delusion! I expect an apology immediately.
http://jollybloger.blogspot.com/2008/07/pz-has-gone-too-far.html
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:24 PM
Come on, PZ! Spamming, morphing, insipidity, godbotting... this must be a record: The idiot got himself into Dungeon-worthy shape after a handful of posts!
Posted by: Minneapolitian | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Thank you so much for doing this. You are a hero to anyone who actually uses their brain to think. Another reason for me to be proud of living in liberal Minneapolis is this happened right in my city! Ohhhh, you must plan something new!!!
Posted by: ryanm | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
fuckin' A. Bravo, PZ. Though significant on a symbolic level, what you have done is so trivial, no, of no import WHATSOEVER compared to the vile barbarism perpetrated in the name of Catholicism. I single that one out just because they're the only ones who give a fuck about this goddamn cracker, and they've been so gracious as to show through their recent comments that vile barbarism is apparently alive and well in the ranks of the faithful. Good luck, and Reason-speed.
Posted by: Melinda Dillon | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Well done!!!
Posted by: gruggach | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Way to go, PZ! I'm very happy with what you've done. You very eloquently hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: Hap | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
1) I see somebody found out how to cut and paste. How unfortunate.
2) This seems like an appropriate ending. Someone might learn something from it (it wasn't just to annoy people), or at least, know where you stand. Of course, the multithousand post threads indicate that there isn't very much willingness to listen or to learn anything, so the show goes on (sort of).
Although, realizing this, it sounds too much like the dialogue between the kid and Arnold in the desert scene in Terminator 2: "We're not going to make it, are we?"
Posted by: Chris P | July 24, 2008 3:25 PM
Hopefully you will go back through your trash and recycle properly.
Otherwise best thread yet. Another step in dismantling the stupidity of gods.
Posted by: Chicago | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
Posted by: Jochen | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
I'd still say that turning the flesh of jesus into poop is more offensive. And that's what these catholics are doing every sunday! Unbelievable! Damn cannibals!
Posted by: Jay | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
Well done. Kudos.
Posted by: Jolly Bloger | July 24, 2008 3:26 PM
PZ, this insult will not stand. I can't believe you did something so horrible to the God Delusion! I expect an apology immediately.
http://jollybloger.blogspot.com/2008/07/pz-has-gone-too-far.html
Posted by: ryanm | July 24, 2008 3:27 PM
fuckin' A. Bravo, PZ. Though significant on a symbolic level, what you have done is so trivial, no, of no import WHATSOEVER compared to the vile barbarism perpetrated in the name of Catholicism. I single that one out just because they're the only ones who give a fuck about this goddamn cracker, and they've been so gracious as to show through their recent comments that vile barbarism is apparently alive and well in the ranks of the faithful. Good luck, and Reason-speed.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | July 24, 2008 3:27 PM
Done with finesse and grace, Dr. Myers.
Posted by: Feshy | July 24, 2008 3:27 PM
Well played, PZ, well played.
Posted by: fontinalis | July 24, 2008 3:27 PM
Well played, sir. I raise a glass in your honor. Your words, both well chosen and articulated, almost made the closing image anticlimactic. Almost.
Posted by: Zar | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
I wish Catholics would make half the fuss over the Church's shameful, deadly policies regarding family planning in third-world countries as they do about snack desecration.
Destruction of a cracker: an outrage.
Death of Africans: whatev.
Andy:
Generally, the US is much less vigilant about proper waste disposal than Germany. We're pretty wasteful. Here, we recycle paper, cans and bottles, and not a lot else. Many recycling plants don't process assorted Verpackungen stuff. And I don't know of any sanitation department that handles biological waste; you have to take care of that yourself with a compost heap in the backyard (if you have a backyard, that is---if you live in an apartment, forget about it!). If you want to be eco-friendly, it requires a lot more effort on your part. It stinks.
I was amazed to find out how particular waste disposal was in Germany. I think it's great! I wish we did stuff like that, but I suppose it would cost a fair amount of money and we just don't have the public funds as the taxes are so much lower and all.
Posted by: the other Adam | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
I'd have desecrated a watermelon too (since they're yummy and in season) and a copy of Atlas Shrugged. Except that in my town, paper, banana peels and metal all go in different bins.
Posted by: Jack Picknell | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
In the paraphrased words of our Lord, forgive him Father, he does not know what he is doing. PZ I humbly suggest that you seriously consider repenting.
Remember that the God who made you and I both has said "I will repay".
Posted by: Chris Granade | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
Holy crap... what's the comment length cap? I like being able to post a length comment now and again, but BnotAfraid takes the cake for long comments. Then again, copy-and-pasting a comment is kind of cheating, no?
Posted by: kryptonic | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
Is that jesus' likeness I see there in the banana peel?
What's the character limit on this blog anyway? Whatever it is, it's too high.
Posted by: Mika H | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
Devastating.
Bravo, PZ.
I hope there's one more thing theists of all kind take home from this: hate or desire to hurt someone was never PZ's motivation nor goal. If you think so, or feel deeply hurt by this article, it's time to take off the blinders and do some serious soul searching.
Shame, though. It would've been great to time the desecration with the coming solar eclipse. ;)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080722-solar-eclipse.html
Posted by: gdlchmst | July 24, 2008 3:28 PM
This deserves a fucking Pulitzer.
Posted by: Aaron | July 24, 2008 3:29 PM
In the words of Brian:
You're all individuals!
Posted by: Kergillian | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
What? You DARE DESECRATE THE GOD DELUSION? I loved that book! And the Banana! What did it ever do to you?
That is an outrage!
No Soup for you!
I'll bet you wouldn't have the balls to do that to the Eucharist or the Quran... oh, wait... you did. Well then. Never mind.
Oh, and well said! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm having a sacred cow for lunch, and I think I'll have it with some bacon.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
Make ready the lacy, gently wafting curtains in the dungeon for John!
Posted by: cyborgsuzy | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
Hmm. Personally, I prefer recycling for the paper products, and composting for the coffee grounds, banana peels and crackers.
Posted by: SteadyEddy | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
#68 oops... "unrational" isn't even a word. I meant irrational or, better yet, unreasonable. I was in a hurry to break the top 100. PZ's much more eloquent than I am... which leads me to ask PZ... when can we look forward to a book of your thoughts on science and religion? Maybe see you for Sunday brunch at Q.Cumbers... again, well done PZ!
Posted by: Bert Chadick | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
You done 'dem crackers wrong, but why throw away a banana when it's just getting good.
PZ, You've been traveling a lot lately, and I hope you have been taking the bibles out of the rooms when you check out. I use them in my paper fired charcoal starter and they work great. Better than newspaper.
Posted by: Dustin | July 24, 2008 3:30 PM
You're full of shit. Humility and sanctimony aren't compatible.Posted by: AGatMSI | July 24, 2008 3:31 PM
@ #450:
Epic Win!
Posted by: Dahan | July 24, 2008 3:31 PM
"Hmm... some smart guy. Talk about being totally stupid, I can only think of God's mercy toward this guy is going to be a baseball bat to his head so he finally gets it through that head of his that the Eucharist is Jesus."
Posted by both : someone221 and Interested reader.
Here's a clue for ya. If your going to use Sockpuppetry, try changing the words a little so we may think it's not the same person... god, you people really are dumb as a box of rocks aren't ya.
Posted by: Chicago | July 24, 2008 3:31 PM
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
Posted by: CalGeorge | July 24, 2008 3:31 PM
I hope that was an organic banana, PZ.
And shade-grown, fair-trade, organic coffee.
And please remember to recycle that paper!
Three cheers for the trashing and desecration of that moronic symbol of Catholic stupidity.
Posted by: onclepsycho | July 24, 2008 3:32 PM
Just wait until that strident Dawkins guy hears about this...
Posted by: Bob | July 24, 2008 3:32 PM
Amen PZ.
Posted by: Susannah | July 24, 2008 3:32 PM
"There can be no danger of excess in our care for this mystery, for "in this sacrament is recapitulated the whole mystery of our salvation"."
I think John has taken the bolded part to heart. But Pope Rat was wrong.
(Yes, I read the screed. At least, some of it. FSM help me!)
And, Bravo, PZ!
Posted by: Rob the Lurker FCD BMWCCA | July 24, 2008 3:32 PM
I guess it had to be anti-climatic. After all, I can't think of any possible way to be truly evil to a cracker.
P.S.: You're conclusion is the best thing I've read all year. Cheers.
Posted by: Todd | July 24, 2008 3:32 PM
Praise FSM!
Posted by: Chicago | July 24, 2008 3:33 PM
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
Posted by: Kergillian | July 24, 2008 3:33 PM
What? You DARE DESECRATE THE GOD DELUSION? I loved that book! And the Banana! What did it ever do to you?
That is an outrage!
No Soup for you!
I'll bet you wouldn't have the balls to do that to the Eucharist or the Quran... oh, wait... you did. Well then. Never mind.
Oh, and well said! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm having a sacred cow for lunch, and I think I'll have it with some bacon.
Posted by: eguy | July 24, 2008 3:33 PM
I love the Monty Python references. I disagree about how you approached this, being rude on purpose about meaningless things does not strike me as the right thing to do. I do agree that the responses are 50 times worse than any thing I would have imagined. I mean death threats over a cracker? You can not make this stuff up.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 24, 2008 3:33 PM
Next time, run a rusty nail through the douchebag spambot. What a waste of stem cells.
Posted by: Martin | July 24, 2008 3:33 PM
#310 Pete Rooke: Suppose you had a very sacred book outlining your philosophy on life. This book also happened to be stitched together and bound in the skin and flesh of a loved one who had recently passed away.
Now desecrating the Eucharist would have the same effect as desecrating that book and posting the evidence in glee.
Which just goes to show how incredibly stupid and silly your view of your cracker is. Your cracker is not the skin or flesh of a loved one, or anyone else. It's a cracker, that you fantasize you have transformed into something else by virtue of a medievalist superstitious ritual. In terms of reality, it is still a cracker, no matter what gibberish and hand-waving spell-casting some man in robes does over it.
Honestly, do you really think these cartoon analogies constitute impressive arguments?
Posted by: Dav Laurel | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Gratuitous and stupid. And that's coming from an agnostic who never received any formal religious instruction.
Posted by: Dave Godfrey | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
John you git, you owe me a new scroll wheel.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Hey John, do you really like using the "Holy Father's" words as so much garbage to gum up a forum's works?
Seems that you have a problem with committing sacrilege, at least according to your religion.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/
Posted by: Paul Hands | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Nice one, PZ!
I just hope this doesn't spur one or another set of nutters to actually take a ction against you or yours.....please be careful.
As for that Tony Philips nobhead (#329), he's wrong. Before learning to think for myself, I was brought up a catholic, and was an altar boy (not of my own volition). The consistency of the crackers varies remarkably with age/humidity etc. Some would indeed shatter, but some, especially newer ones, could be bent in half without breaking. We used to use them as micro-frisbees, and they wouldn't break.
Being a catholic is like having rabies when nearly everyone else has distemper, and only a few are healthy.
Posted by: JackC | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Contrary to other opinions, and assuming from the position of prominence that recent consumption had taken place, that banana was just about perfect.
JC
Posted by: Feshy | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Hey, what do you know. Another thing God perfectly designed a banana to do! ;)
Posted by: Tom | July 24, 2008 3:34 PM
Hard to grasp, but posts 419 and 457 were even more fucking ridiculous as post 482.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:35 PM
Psst, John - NO ONE IS READING ANYTHING YOU POST.
Posted by: ErikFK | July 24, 2008 3:35 PM
god and his army of Johns, StLukes, BNotAfraid etc. knows how to make a denial of service attack?
god, you have really impressed me - such allmightyness forces me to reconsider my atheism...
Posted by: ed | July 24, 2008 3:35 PM
Loud applause.Standing "O".For the article not the fracking cracker.I wonder if the cat-licks teach that part of their past on Sundays?
Posted by: Rob the Lurker FCD BMWCCA | July 24, 2008 3:35 PM
PZ, you'll soon be hearing from the United Church of the Sacred Banana Peel.
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | July 24, 2008 3:36 PM
444
Just a cut-rate version of 666...
Posted by: ZorkFox | July 24, 2008 3:36 PM
Inspiring and illuminating. I'll be sharing this with friends.
Posted by: Helioprogenus | July 24, 2008 3:37 PM
This is brilliant. Here we are thinking of the most elaborate ways of desecrating this idiot sucking symbolic piece of bread, and PZ does the least labor intensive and most time saving method of cracker mutilation. As for the Quran and the God Delusion, that's an interesting touch. Nothing religious is sacred to rational, skeptical, and actual free thought.
We should all just send in pictures of us desecrating something religious and have PZ post them up. Imagine how frenzied and insane these religious fucks would get. It wouldn't just be limited to catholics either, but other christians, jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists, jains, etc.
Posted by: ix | July 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Well written Professor Myers.
If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I'd drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue.
That sentence was gold.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Also, banana peels tend to brown rapidly when they have been separated from the rest of the banana.
Also, please stop whining about recycling the paper. This was a symbolic gesture. I'm sure PZ recycles every other scrap of paper he comes into contact with. Two trashed books aren't going to destroy the world.
(Nor a trashed cracker, OH!)
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Yea cuz you know, copy pasting annoyingly long stuff written by a church guy and pissing off everyone on a blog is the best way to convert them to Jesus, see.
Stop being such an anus.
Posted by: Jason | July 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Well, its done. Looks like those Witchita Indian spirits gan finally rest now.
Posted by: the other Adam | July 24, 2008 3:38 PM
Never mind the LHC, I think John Paul's comments are going to collapse into a singularity that will swallow the Earth.
Posted by: doug | July 24, 2008 3:38 PM
Jesus Christ, TheAnswer, that's a long comment.
Posted by: S.Scott | July 24, 2008 3:38 PM
How come there aren't any noodles in there?
Posted by: dhonig | July 24, 2008 3:38 PM
The experiment is not really over for another three days. Also, instead of covering the garbage can with a lid, can you use a large rock?
Posted by: Phyllis | July 24, 2008 3:39 PM
Bravo Professor Meyers!
Posted by: Parsnip Money | July 24, 2008 3:39 PM
John has turned into 'GlobalWarmingFraud'
WTF?
Posted by: kryptonic | July 24, 2008 3:39 PM
Is that jesus' likeness I see there in the banana peel?
What's the character limit on this blog anyway? Whatever it is, it's too high.
Posted by: Buzz Buzz | July 24, 2008 3:39 PM
Wow. I totally called the special addition.
Or, well, I was damned close. I was thinking origin of species, but the god delusion was better option. I think that was about the best way you could have done that.
Maybe that'll get it through their thick skulls.
Or more probably it just wont.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:39 PM
John? Listen up you fanatic. I got something to tell you.
that's all cute words, but back in 2003 the Pope was a vegetable. There's no way he would've written all that. It was written by the puppetmasters behind the poor walking cadaver, okay?
Posted by: tsg | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
The amount of evidence required to conditionally believe an assertion is true is dependent on two things: how unlikely the claim is to be true; and how important it is to be correct. In this case, the answer is "not very" to both. It doesn't matter in the slightest whether or not it is a consecrated cracker. The intolerance demonstrated by the believers is the entire point.
You're learning, grasshopper.
Posted by: chicago | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
Posted by: Baba | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
That's a sorry excuse for a desecration, and not even original. You should thank God that a tedious lack of imagination isn't a mortal sin.
Posted by: Josh G | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
Very well done! Great message, thank you for sharing.
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
Ben, PZ doesn't believe that the truth is relative. No serious Secular Humanist does. PZ wouldn't be a scientist if he didn't view approximate truth as highly important to himself and others. The whole deal here is: your religious truth claim is false. The idea that those wafers are a dead Jewish man is groundless. There is no legitimate evidence for it. He's not a relativist, you are in insisting that he should respect a false claim as truth.
Posted by: Who Cares | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
@GlobalCooling Fraud: Next time just post a link. Then you might have people actually reading what you say.
Posted by: Jim | July 24, 2008 3:40 PM
Just to add to the pile on the thread:
OMGZ!11 UR GOIN TUH HAY-UHL!1!
Love you, PZ. Keep up the good work. :D
Posted by: the strangest brew | July 24, 2008 3:41 PM
#406
'Thou shalt not spam bullshite', whether it be popery or blusterings of a mindless clone.
When all the howling, gnashing of teeth, pontification and squealing is done tis just a cracker...live with it...!
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | July 24, 2008 3:41 PM
RE #482: Another threat on your life; it appears someone is trying to bore you to death.
Posted by: Canuck | July 24, 2008 3:41 PM
What is a circumcised heart? I thought I knew about all of the strange religious rituals in the West. Sheesh. Is the heart's foreskin sensitive? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Hap | July 24, 2008 3:41 PM
John seems to be implementing a DOS attack. You might want to block him or at least shrink his comments (disemvoweling, etc.), but YMMV.
Posted by: Phyllis | July 24, 2008 3:42 PM
Bravo!
Posted by: Jason | July 24, 2008 3:42 PM
And isn't all this Catholic spam the equivalent of an atheist making a point in a debate, followed by a Christian covering their ears, closing their eyes, and quoting scripture loudly and incessantly in order to block out reason and logic?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | July 24, 2008 3:42 PM
Wonderfully understated desecration. Your preliminary remarks told the whole story.
I add my desire to see the remarks of John Boy of our copy/paste deleted. FWIW, I never read any post that is longer than a screen until I see who wrote it. And then, I only read the long posts of the regulars.
Posted by: gdlchmst | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
Seriously, you copy-pasters of long-winded bullshit. Fuck off. You should be banned for this crap.
Posted by: Jim | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
OMGZ!11 UR GOIN TUH HAY-UHL!1!
Love you, PZ. Keep up the good work. :D
Posted by: Soybomb | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
Looks fitting to me. A cracker doesn't need an elaborate disposal.
Posted by: Buzz Buzz | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
I can't even follow the conversation because all of the concentrated crazy that's flying around in here.
Posted by: Colin M | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
Chicago @462:
"For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I've read there was one, maybe a questionable two."
Unfortunate for you that your post is right after BnotAfraid's post filled with 60+ paragraphs of Catholic dogma & apologetics.
Posted by: Kristina | July 24, 2008 3:43 PM
I hope it IT IS FINISHED. PZ what is happening to your SCIENCE BLOG...come on..is this something new that you going to do from now on...BORONG BORING BORING...I mean how many THANK YOU GREAT POST do you need...I feel like I am with a buch of morons from youtube...we hate atheists...no we hate christians...no we hate hamburgers...you're an idiot...no you are...i hate you...no i hate you...WTF
Posted by: mr-zero | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
wtf stmatthew - haven't you heard of links!
Z
Posted by: alex | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
BANalso, massive kudos PZ.
Posted by: Umilik | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
Beautiful.
Just beautiful, Dr. Myers.
Pure poetry.
It gave me goosebumps.
Posted by: -R | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
PZ, will you PLEEAAASSSEEE disemvowel all but the first posting of screed that keeps getting posted? It's taking up like half the page.
Posted by: Dirk | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
Skimming past the novels... there actually is a Magisterium? I totally thought Philip Pullman made that up!
Posted by: db0 | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
Where is your god now?
Posted by: The Adamant Atheist | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
I love how the Christians on here deny that it's even a real "consecrated" wafer.
How the hell would they recognize one if they mixed it up in a bag of regular wafers? That's the whole point--this whole so-called miracle of the eucharist is nonsense.
Posted by: chrisD | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
Thanks for the birthday present, PZ! You couldn't have picked a better day!
Posted by: AndrewG | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
John, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are your feelings so hurt that you cannot type? Relax my friend everything will be OK. Breath in ... breath out.
HAVE A CRACKER!
Posted by: Righteous Bubba | July 24, 2008 3:44 PM
I am disappointed that you didn't have a tiny black hood, crate, and electrical cables handy.
Posted by: Giljorak | July 24, 2008 3:45 PM
BLAHBLAHBLAH DUH EUCHACRISPIA
Of His Uselessness Pope Whats Its Face
To The Biatches, Prudes, and Deamons
Men and Women in the Secreted Life
And All the Lay Faithbul
On the Euchacrisp in its Relationship to the Chruch
CHAPTER ONE
THE MYSTERY OF BAKING
Dude, it's a frackin' cracker.
CONCLUSION
YUMMY
Pass the spray cheese please.
Given in Rome, at Saint Nowhere's, on 23 July, Thursday, in the year 2008, the uselessness of my Pontificate, the Year of the Rosey Palm.
Posted by: Hessenroots | July 24, 2008 3:45 PM
@ 310
OK then Pete, lets see what we have here:
1) Suppose you were a milkman with rotting teeth and cankerous lips..."
The mythical milkman is entrusted and payed to deliver the milk to paying customers. The disgusting behavior you suggest violates that trust and poses a possible long term health risk. You suggest PZ, by his actions, is akin to this milkman.
The only part of this analogy that fits is that someone was offended in the end. If that's your point well then, bravo. You've pointed out, rather obtusely, that someone is offended. There is no question of that, nor is that in question. Where is the violated trust? Risking the health of others?...
2) "Suppose your are an embalmer. You are busy embalming a person for an open coffin ceremony and you decide to pilfer there lush locks of blonde hair..."
As in your first analogy, there is an underlying level of trust involved. Much like the milkman story the 'victims' are unaware until after the fact. You also allude to PZ's 'theft' and possible proft. Again, there has been no violation of trust. He's not exactly been quiet or secretive about the situation nor did he steal anything. As for your point on profiting from the act, I'm unsure if he's payed by Seed for this blog. If he is then yes, you are correct in that aspect of the analogy (yet at the same time, whats your point?), otherwise the only similarity is the offended victim in the end.
"3) Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing called a mini-skirt these days..."
I hope I'm not the only one you lost with this sad little tale. You're suggesting that wearing a mini-skirt increases the chances of rape (which is mind boggling but I'm playing along)...so are you saying the Catholic church has left itself vulnerable, thus incited this 'attack'? To what end and once again, what's your point?
"he has since been roped into desecrating the Koran"
Actually if you dig a bit into his blog you'll find that he's alluded to it more then once in the past. The piles of emails and replies he's been getting isn't the cause.
"he is still as culpable as someone who chooses to attack say the more benign and watered down religions of Quakerism/Unitarian-Universalism"
I doubt anyone would deny that (watered down and benign, nice!). It's not whom is the target but why they're a target. The whole point of this exercise isn't about whom is being 'picked on'...if you've taken that away from this you're completely missing the point, not to mention victimizing yourself.
4) Suppose you had a very sacred book outlining your philosophy on life. This book also happened to be stitched together and bound in the skin and flesh of a loved one who had recently passed away.
Yes, it would have the same effect in that someone would be offended in the end. The point being made here is that sacred symbols, rites and rituals are silly and powerless beyond those whom hold them sacred. The difference here, which may or may not matter, is that the book is made of flesh and we're talking about biscuits and paper books. The concept of grief and mourning a loved one and treating the remains of that loved one with decency is a bit more universal then suggesting biscuit = jesus. The mere idea of bounding a book in the flesh of a loved one would be enough to offend a lot of people of varying faiths and backgrounds, no further disregard needed.
Overall, if the only point you were trying to make is that people are offended, you've managed to succeed (in the most obtuse and roundabout way possible). There's no question that people are offended, no ones trying to say people aren't...so what's your point, Pete?
Posted by: NotAFuckTard | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Ah, so this is why all the trolls left the other thread.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...this is gonna be FUN!
Posted by: Matt Penfold | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
"FWIW, I never read any post that is longer than a screen until I see who wrote it. And then, I only read the long posts of the regulars."
I have a general rule that anything worth saying can be said in what can be seen on the screen at anyone time. If it goes on longer than that it either needs to be edited, split up or links given to where more a more detailed discussion can take place. Like all rules, there are times when the rule should be ignored.
Posted by: Jack Rawlinson | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Great piece, PZ. I was hoping you'd take the opportunity to really spell out why these deranged primitives and their absurd fetishes deserve to be disrespected, and so you have.
As for the outraged Catholic (and other) loonies - get over it and grow a goddamned mind, you absurd clowns. You call PZ's behaviour immature and yet look at you. Look at you. Get the damned logs out of your eyes, eh?
Posted by: bullet | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Just one quibble:
...the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all...
Ummm, Serbia?
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Thank you, PZ.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Seems that godbots are in full-speed copypasta mode.
.
Ban the Troll!!
.
Posted by: LaTomate | July 24, 2008 3:46 PM
PZ, you da man.
Posted by: Iason Ouabache | July 24, 2008 3:47 PM
Bravo, good sir! I'm just disappointed that you didn't go with a blender instead of the trash can.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | July 24, 2008 3:47 PM
Don't submissions require a valid email address? Can't we block them or the IP or something. I have liked not having to register but if the little copy and paste bitches are going to ruin everything, I will register.
Posted by: ThirtyFiveUp | July 24, 2008 3:47 PM
As always, PZ is a teacher. And an accomplished writer. I did not know about the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 which led to repeated murders of Jews. Murdered because superstitious Christians believed bread could be Jesus.
By the way, I eagerly await publication of his book.
Posted by: Fr. J | July 24, 2008 3:48 PM
You said nothing is sacred PZ. Interesting that you bring up the Jews. Not long ago atheists like yourself, and yes they were atheists so don't try your usual canards, killed 6 million of them. They did it scientifically. You would do it again if we were the ones you could kill. Don't claim otherwise since you believe nothing is sacred.
Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don't believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Those things are meaningless to them. For them there is no meaning. Human beings have no intrinsic worth, so in a way you encourage death threats by your own philosophy. How ironic. Even though you know that no Catholic would harm a hair on your little head. I cannot say the same for how atheists treat us.
I find your little exercise pathetic. Your justifications are drivel. You just wanted to hurt people. There was no desire to "teach" or give "wisdom." Please spare us such lies. Like most bigots you are filled with mindless hate. That is it in a nutshell: you hate us.
In the end you have only been preaching to your choir of sycophants. No one has changed their mind because of what you have done. In fact you simply confirmed in our minds the fact that atheists are vicious hateful bigots. And you wonder why people won't vote for an atheist for President! Just look in the mirror for the answer to that. Your actions have brought shame to your school, profession, and family. You are a sad little man devoid of decency. People don't admire you, they pity you.
Posted by: firemancarl | July 24, 2008 3:48 PM
Thanks PZ. Great read. My grandfather on my moms side we all Cherman Juden. his entire family was hunted down during WWII. He survived the war, hiding in Berlin of all places. It is "nice" to know that the hatred of the Juden started eons before the Nazis took over. I have never understood religion, especially the loony Catholics (and Muslims).
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:48 PM
I'll come back to read the comments after the Catholic spammer is thrown in the Killfile Dungeon. I'm wearing out my Page Down key to get past the books he's publishing here.
Posted by: stogoe | July 24, 2008 3:48 PM
Hey everyone! Pete's got a Necronomicon! Sweet!
Lemme see if I can remember how it goes...
Klaatu... Verata... Um... Necktie? Nectar? Somebody help me out here.
Posted by: cuervo | July 24, 2008 3:49 PM
Yes. Good post, although...you were finally getting going in the last paragraph...work that up to a full post would you? You know, let yourself go.
[nice add with the God Delusion BTW]
Posted by: S.Scott | July 24, 2008 3:49 PM
That's God spam is pissin' me off! What an asshole ...
Posted by: kent | July 24, 2008 3:49 PM
Serbia is not Catholic lol.
Serbia is Orthodox.
Croatia is Catholic.
Posted by: CLM | July 24, 2008 3:49 PM
So if Catholics are eating the body of Jesus doesn't that make them cannibals?
Posted by: bullet | July 24, 2008 3:50 PM
#561:
Couldn't just post a link? Too dumb?
Posted by: Greg | July 24, 2008 3:50 PM
In the immortal words of Bender,
OH... YOUR... GOD.
Posted by: rich fraser (richmanwisco) | July 24, 2008 3:51 PM
Excellent work.
Posted by: Mika H | July 24, 2008 3:51 PM
Very nice, reducing the wise words of your pope to a cheap DDoS attack.
Posted by: Tyler DiPietro | July 24, 2008 3:52 PM
"Not long ago atheists like yourself, and yes they were atheists so don't try your usual canards, killed 6 million of them."
Got a historical question for ya: what the slogan on the Wehrmacht's belt-buckle translate to in English?
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | July 24, 2008 3:52 PM
You who are lately GlobalWarmingFraud, are a one trick pony. While you are mildly troublesome (all the extra scrolling, long refresh time) you are fortunately easily ignored.
Posted by: Friso | July 24, 2008 3:52 PM
Excellent article, and precisely the throwaway treatment this deserves. Well done.
Posted by: ix | July 24, 2008 3:52 PM
In light of the spam, perhaps it would be a good idea for user posts greater than 500 characters to be cut off at the character limit, and a 'read more' JavaScript URL appended to it for expanding the rest of their message.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:52 PM
@CLM: S'what we claim and what folks like Dr. J thinks. BTW, Dr. J. I believe in goodness, love and beauty. I see it in the people I love, the wonderous world around me, the universe that we're part of and I don't need your imaginary friend to be moved by the grace of the universe.
Science is beautiful.
Posted by: Tom | July 24, 2008 3:53 PM
Let's see--climate change is a fraud, but it is in fact true that in July of 2008 PZ Myers put a nail though the actual flesh of a first-century peasant from an obscure backwater of the Roman Empire.
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Posted by: Rayven Alandria | July 24, 2008 3:53 PM
I have only read a few comments in this thread. Reading the bazillion comments in the other threads has given me a migraine. Please forgive me if I bring up something that has already been mentioned.
It is my prediction that catholics will now claim that it could not have been a consecrated Jebus Cracker. They cannot deal with the fact that their imaginary friend will not do unspeakable harm to PZ, so....since PZ will not be stricken down by a bolt of lightening within the next few days, they will see it as proof that the Jebus Cracker was not a concecrated one.
They have to do something to make themselves feel safe again. They will invent a way out, a loophole. After an initial outrage they will begin to convince themselves and each other that it was not a consecrated jebus cracker, and they will wrap themselves in their psychological security blanket once more. Their idolatry will continue and they will think their little Jebus idols/crackers, are safe and sound. (Although they may do strip searches to make sure no evil Atheists have come to Mass to smuggle out Jebus crackers.)
Hopefully, this nonsense will make at least a few people take a good, hard look at their religion and admit that it's all a crock of hooey invented by humans to control other humans. That's my hope anyway.
A message to the catholics who are in emotional agony over this issue. I am sorry you are in pain. I hope that someday you find a path to reason and no longer allow superstition to cause you such suffering. It bothers me that you are sad, I don't like to see suffering, even if it is self-induced and based on delusional thoughts. Just as I wish I could flip a switch and fix mentally ill patients and remove their irrational fear and agony, I wish I could flip a switch and remove yours. I cannot do that for you though. Only you can flip that switch.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 3:53 PM
I think John is about to have himself reported to his ISP for denial of service attacks, yes?
It's curtains for you, John. Lacy, gently wafting curtains.
(Yeah, I know I said it already. I'm enjoying the fact that I have a chance to use that line.)
Posted by: Elf Eye | July 24, 2008 3:53 PM
Quick way to get past godbot spam in Mozilla Firefox. Use 'find' feature, type in number of what would be the next comment. Leaps right past the spam. A more permanent solution to the problem (PZ, are you listening): dungeon!
Posted by: Jack Rawlinson | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
Great piece, PZ. I was hoping you'd take the opportunity to really spell out why these deranged primitives and their absurd fetishes deserve to be disrespected, and so you have.
As for the outraged Catholic (and other) loonies - get over it and grow a goddamned mind, you absurd clowns. You call PZ's behaviour immature and yet look at you. Look at you. Get the damned logs out of your eyes, eh?
Posted by: gdlchmst | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
Fr. J, John, chicago, Global Warming Fraud and what not, go fuck a fucking cracker, and stop spamming the threads. Brainless gits.
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
Fixed.
Posted by: Enshoku | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
PZ for the love of all that is good and sacred... STOP THE ASSHAT SPAMMER
Posted by: Saint Bubba | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good."
You parody yourselves.
Posted by: Alexander Treseder | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
copy and paste attack!
Posted by: Roman Werpachowski | July 24, 2008 3:54 PM
Dear PZ:
The XIXth century is long past. I give you some points for trying, but zero for style.
Posted by: Sili | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
Sic frecat crustulum.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
@stogoe:
Are you talking of Klaatu Barada Nikto?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto
Because that is not a Lovecraft reference. It is cool as well, though. Maybe you are thinking of Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu
Posted by: imr90 | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
These people were responsible for a 1000 year long dark age. They will never give up trying to bring it back.
Posted by: Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
@"Fr.J"
I recognize that God is simply a human construct. I am an atheist.
Yet I:
a. believe in goodness
b. belive in truth
c. belive in beauty
d. consider these things meaningful (indeed, among the most meaningful things in life)
e. recognize that many additional things have meaning.
Thus, your statement is negated by the evidence. QED.
Additionally, I doubt you are in fact an ordained priest. I am willing to sign my name to the above statement in this public forum; are you willing to do the same?
Posted by: JHJEFFERY | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
I guess we won't know the outcome of this for another three days . . .
At least the cracker has zero grams of Trans(substantiation)fat.
Well done, PZ.
Posted by: Ghost of Minnesota | July 24, 2008 3:55 PM
Adding The God Delusion was a stroke of brilliance. Bravo, Dr. Myers.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
Yes, a good prediction because they did. At comment #200 though, PZ posted a video proof. But it was most likely lost in the mass (ahaha) of comments.It's worth reposting. THIS IS THE ABDUCTION OF THE GLUTEN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHPZFsGrt-Y
Posted by: TripMaster Monkey | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
Rayven sez:
It is my prediction that catholics will now claim that it could not have been a consecrated Jebus Cracker.
They're already headed down that road.
Posted by: MicroZealous | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
Re "Chicago", "ClimateChange Fraud", et al:
I note the revealing parallels between religiosity and anti-science attitudes. Denial is not just a lake in South America . . .
Posted by: ErikFK | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
#569: Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don't believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Blah blah blah
Of course not. We eat babies at breakfast, admire only people like Stalin and terrorists and, of course, burn religious people when we're bored and have no more cracker at hand.
Please move to the moon. You'll be nearer to your god - and far from his victims.
Posted by: hhabilis | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
What's really ironic is that Jesus Himself said: "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man [that is, Jesus] will be forgiven..." (Mt 12:32) Maybe the hypocrites ought to read their own Book.
Posted by: Paul W. | July 24, 2008 3:56 PM
To the troll spamming the thread with repeats of long nonsense...
Do be aware that what you're doing is not just tacky, but a crime. It's called a "denial of service attack" and it's legally far more serious than stealing a cracker.
Also, some of us are pretty good with computers, and can probably figure out where you live.
PZ can just delete your posts, by the way. He has that kind of godlike power over comments and crackers.
Posted by: Parsnip Money | July 24, 2008 3:57 PM
Oh thank Jeebus, Fr. J is back.
how many times do we have to tell you that Nazi Germany did not kill people in the name of Atheism, but in the name of Nazi Germany!
Even if what you claim to be true was true, it doesn't negate the fact that millions more have been killed in the name of your imaginary sky-being!
Posted by: Jaap Weel | July 24, 2008 3:57 PM
I think you desperately need some updates to the comment system. First of all, limit comments to a certain size, may 1 kilobyte or so. Second, you may want to consider using a comment system like Disqus that lets people vote on comments, so that interesting comments will actually be discoverable among the quotations from encyclicals and the like.
Posted by: Tom | July 24, 2008 3:57 PM
Nice one, stogoe #572.
Posted by: Patrick | July 24, 2008 3:57 PM
Bravo
Posted by: HC Grindon | July 24, 2008 3:58 PM
Bravo, Professor Myers, bravo! The last paragraph after the picture really says it all. Thank you for your voice of reason throughout this silliness known as Crackergate.
Posted by: bullet | July 24, 2008 3:58 PM
kent(#575):
Orthodox is Catholic. That's why there's a modifier for Roman Catholic.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 3:58 PM
See #569 from Fr. J Shithead. (The number may change after the Catholic spam is deleted.)
Godwin's Law: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Posted by: nullifidian | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
Why?
Posted by: The Pope | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
Of His Holiness Pope John Paul II
To The Bishops, Priests, and Deacons
Men and Women in the Consecrated Life
And All the Lay Faithful
On Spamming
HEY ASSHOLE! KNOCK IT OFF YOU DOUCHE! I wanna read these comments so I can get back to buggering some choir boys.
Sheesh.
XOXOXO
Da Pope (for shizzle!)
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
cosmology@yahoo.com ?
Is that your email or something?
Posted by: Bob Kowalski | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
The best that I can say???
God Almighty, how I wish I had written that!
Posted by: The Adamant Atheist | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
Fr. J,
You are a dumbass.
Atheism can't motivate anyone to do anything, it's a mere absence of belief. Religion on the other hand represents affirmative beliefs which can in fact motivate people to do terrible things.
Nazism was just like a religion. Dogmatic, irrational, and hostile to any dissent.
You simply cannot accept that human beings can be decent, free, loving and happy without believing in horseshit.
Also, you have not once demonstrated that your god even exists. You have a contempt for the truth and reality that is mind-boggling.
Posted by: MicroZealous | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM
Re "Chicago", "ClimateChange Fraud", et al:
I note the revealing parallels between religiosity and anti-science attitudes. Denial is not just a lake in South America . . .
Posted by: W.C.Walker | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
Religious controversies are always more productive of more acrimony & irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Geo. Washington, letter to Edw. Newenham, 6-2 1792 200 plus years later it's no different.
Posted by: writzer | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
John, Benotafraid, JohnPaul2weloveyou ...
No matter how many words are used to explain the irrational, it's still irrational. It's still ... just a cracker.
Posted by: Irene | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
Are your actions and words representative of the 8th rate university you teach at? So anyway, why did you leave Temple? Or were you run out of town?
Posted by: Hal in Howell MI (not far from Hell, MI) | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
Excellent essay, PZ. Thank you. Sorry you felt it necessary to use books (I guess books are as close to "sacred" I get, except for Bach and Beethoven.) At least the books were not unique and can easily be replaced. So, no harm, no foul.
This entire episode has proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that there is only a thin vernier separating so-called religious mores from the threat of religious violence.
Posted by: Gary | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
An English copy of the Koran (Qu'ran) is not the true Koran. To really do the job right, you need an Arabic version.
Posted by: lurker_above | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
Haha. This is going well. Bravo, PZ.
Posted by: jl | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
Jesus should be used to being pierced by nails.
I'll lift a beer to you tonight PZ
Posted by: mostlywater | July 24, 2008 4:00 PM
An appropriate end to a nontroversy.
Posted by: Ferin | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
Interesting choice tossing the god delusion pages in there too.
I don't entirely agree with what you did, but I guess I can understand it.
I just hope that people'll learn something from all of this silliness.
Posted by: Tony | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
You're my new idol PZ, for real, you're the man. Cheers from Finland! :-)
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
You lying bastard.Posted by: alex | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
PZ! POPE KNOWS HOW TO USE INTERNET!
Posted by: Sven DIMilo | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
Loathe as I am to enter the Land of Double Posts (and Triple, etc.), especially since I earlier promised to no longer pay any attention to the whole Ineffable Magical Cracker scene, I...cannot...help pointing out that, of course, sentences 2, 3, and 4 quoted above do not remotely follow from #1. And #1, while literally true (since nothing is sacred) is as close to wrong as something literally true can get."Father" J., you are wrong from top to bottom. I know how you feel about personal insults, and so I will avoid them while pointing out that you have not paid the slightest bit of attention to anything anyone else has posted in response to your bullshit. Aaaah, screw it: you suck, asshole.
You and Pete "False Analogy" Rooke would be banned for inane thick-skulled slagging if I were the owner of the blog, and the fact that PZ leaves your crap up and allows you to post the same shit again and again is just evidence of the bend-over-backwards-to-be-fair kind of guy he is. Nobody got hurt by the little rusty-nail demonstration--not you, nobody. Please quit whining.
Posted by: JoshH | July 24, 2008 4:01 PM
*Gnashes teeth loudly and angrily*
Posted by: Irene | July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Are your actions and words representative of the 8th rate university you teach at? So anyway, why did you leave Temple? Or were you run out of town?
Posted by: jl | July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Jesus should be used to being pierced by nails.
I'll lift a beer to you tonight PZ
Posted by: Parsnip Money | July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Hey look, John has added 'Nancy Pelosi' and 'Hussein Obama' to his ranks of intense paste lovers.
Posted by: writzer | July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
John, Benotafraid, JohnPaul2weloveyou ...
No matter how many words are used to explain the irrational, it's still irrational. It's still ... just a cracker.
Posted by: stogoe | July 24, 2008 4:03 PM
Alas, the joining of the two is not my idea but Sam Raimi's, in Army of Darkness.
Posted by: Zaphod | July 24, 2008 4:03 PM
> W.C.Walker said -
> Religious controversies are always more productive of
> more acrimony & irreconcilable hatreds than those which
> spring from any other cause. Geo. Washington, letter to
> Edw. Newenham, 6-2 1792 200 plus years later it's no
> different.
I like Franklin's take on it:
"Indeed, when religious people quarrel about religion, or hungry people quarrel about victuals, it looks as if they had not much of either among them.
-- Benjamin Franklin"
Posted by: Steve | July 24, 2008 4:04 PM
Absolutely brilliant. PZ, I only wish I could have put together such and EXCELLENT piece of prose. Complete. Accurate. Fair. And of course very witty!
So many have already offered you the same praise I wish to offer. Others have used the "copy / paste" function to the point it should be banned...All I will add is that I, too, will hoist a glass in your honor tonight!
Posted by: Justin | July 24, 2008 4:04 PM
Holy Jesus Christ, people.
Religions suck. Do you know how stupid you're all sounding?
IT IS JUST A CRACKER. EFFING MOLECULES. BAKED.
Cheers PZ Myers, you're awesome.
Posted by: fafnir | July 24, 2008 4:04 PM
I never figured Jesus'd show up in anything less than a Double Stuff.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 4:04 PM
PZ said: Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age -- the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all -- but the sentiment still lingers.
Did you read that, Fr. J?
Posted by: Baba | July 24, 2008 4:04 PM
How Mao of you!
Posted by: blf | July 24, 2008 4:05 PM
Pee Zed is well aware of St John the Copy Pasting Annoyer and is working on the problem (see the comments in the Roy Zimmerman thread after this one), so the posts asking him to do something about it are, in a sense, just as much spam as the bishop's blatterings.
Posted by: sailor | July 24, 2008 4:05 PM
Great move. Get the whole bunch of them running to PZ over a cracker and then let go with both barrels about the nature of this rubish where they are all sure to read it.
I think the nail was a bit over the top, the garbage bin perfectly apropriate and the final advise:
"God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanities' knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind."
worthy of more permanent publication.
Posted by: E.V. | July 24, 2008 4:06 PM
"I'm going to raise a glass of Laphroaig in toast"
Man, do you know how to induce Single Malt envy. (pout)
Posted by: Female God | July 24, 2008 4:07 PM
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
#2
It is done.
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#3
Well done.
Posted by: FormerMilitary | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#4
Well this is going to be epic.
Posted by: Tucker | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#5
PZ: My gin and tonic will be hoisted up in your name tonight.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:06 PM
#6
Well, if you thought the deluge of email was bad now! :)
Thanks for pointing out that nothing should be held sacred.
Posted by: JSorrell | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
#7
Requiescat in pace, Crustum Christi.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
#8
Well said PZ. Wish I could think of something more to add.
Posted by: Cafeeine | July 24, 2008 4:07 PM
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465
MYERS DESECRATES THE EUCHARIST
July 24, 2008
University of Minnesota professor Paul Z. Myers made good on his pledge to desecrate the Eucharist today. According to his statement on the subject, "I pierced it [the Host] with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash."
Saying he did not want to "single out just the cracker," Myers also tore pages from the Koran along with a few pages from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion and nailed them to the Host. He then said, "They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. (His emphasis.) Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet."
Catholic League president Bill Donohue responded as follows:
"A formal complaint against Myers has already been made. What he did--in both word and deed--constitutes a bias incident, as defined by the University of Minnesota. The policy says that 'Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group's actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion...can be forms of discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or resentment in others...even when presented as a joke.'
"The University must now take action and apply the appropriate sanction. We are contacting the president, Board of Regents and the Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action Office at the school, as well as Minnesota's governor and both houses of the state legislature; the Catholic community in Minnesota is also being contacted. Moreover, we are also contacting Muslim groups nationwide.
"It is important for Catholics to know that the University of Minnesota will not tolerate the deliberate destruction of the Eucharist by one of its faculty. Just as African Americans would not tolerate the burning of a cross, and Jews would not tolerate the display of swastikas, Catholics will not tolerate the desecration of the Eucharist."
(Note: For information purposes only. The poster does not subscribe to the above wackiness)
Posted by: ail | July 24, 2008 4:08 PM
I have kind of the opposite of your view but a similar goal.
Everything is sacred.
All those things in your picture are expressions of divinity playing out its ever-evolving and -devolving energy in space and time.
To me what you have done isn't sacrilege but art. It's a rudimentary and minor effort, but still an original variation using evocative elements in a strong, precise statement of individual values, intended to make the viewer rethink familiar objects and entrenched ideas.
I think it's a messed up world when we call a wafer sacred but not a banana.
In fact, we can always manufacture, and get some priest to "bless", more wafers. The bananas are another story, as the particular variety we eat are slowly dying out from a fungal disease.
To you nothing's sacred, to me all of it is, but in both views breakiing down false mysteries is a step toward respecting and valuing the real world for what it is.
I'm outta' here, you got too many commenters already. If there is a goddess, She loves ya'! :)
Posted by: David | July 24, 2008 4:08 PM
Voltaire said that those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. This quotation comes to my mind when I read of the massacres that were instigated by false claims of host desecration, and also when I read the threats of violence from a few outraged Christians.
I want to thank Dr. Myers for reminding us that religious superstition is not harmless, but it has deadly consequences.
Posted by: Mike Smith | July 24, 2008 4:09 PM
I'm excited to see where this leads. I'm with you all the way, PZ.
Posted by: BobC | July 24, 2008 4:09 PM
According to the Catholic religion, only assholes are allowed in heaven. That would explain all the Catholic spam.
Posted by: JoJo | July 24, 2008 4:10 PM
To misquote Lewis Carroll:
Speak roughly to your little boy
And beat him when he spams,
He only does it to annoy
And he thinks it damns.
Posted by: Rodney Trotter | July 24, 2008 4:10 PM
Carlie -
Ok if the worst that can be said about the Hindu cow analogy is where he ate the meat I'm happy, it works. The sentiment is the same.
Don't get me wrong, the religious outcry/spam etc is an absurd over-reaction. I just think there's such a thing as poor taste, this being quite close. Might be an English thing.
Posted by: bonefish | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
Great post. Always enjoy whatever you've got to say, PZ.
did take me a hell of a long time to get down here, though. if i wanted to read the papal address in its entirety i am perfectly capable of looking the endless thing up on my own.
i may reread the history of the various church councils, though. they're always interesting.
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
I wonder who's going to make post #666? Hopefully it will be that no-talent ass-clown whose posting the same sputum ad nauseum. He's not just wacka-loon, he's a cracka-loon!
Posted by: Patrick | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
Some serious trolling going on here...
Posted by: Hal in Howell MI (not far from Hell, MI) | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
@Father J & Hillarywasscrewed, et al:
Bollocks!!!!
Please don't pray for me because I will then have to think for both of us.
Posted by: Anon | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
Great now that that is done, lets get back to some hot squid on squid action.
Posted by: Sam L. | July 24, 2008 4:11 PM
Brilliant, appropriate, and final. Great conclusion, PZ.
Posted by: Mike | July 24, 2008 4:12 PM
As a Catholic with a sense or irony I've decided the only thing I'll be praying for is the conversion of PZ's child(ren) to Catholicism. Catholic with a sense of ironic justice.
Posted by: mick lafferty | July 24, 2008 4:12 PM
Communism through Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, HoChi Mihn, Castro and many others has killed many more than Christianity.
Literally, hundreds of millions, not to mention the atheistic nazis killing 6 million Jews and 10 million others.
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 4:12 PM
@Cafeeine
Wow. He REALLY bit the bait uh? My god (Also known as my own self, yes, you heard me, I'm God. Live with it and hail to me.) he's really a blind fanatic man. Sad existence he has.
Posted by: Dahan | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
Fr. J
"Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don't believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Those things are meaningless to them. For them there is no meaning. Human beings have no intrinsic worth, so in a way you encourage death threats by your own philosophy. "
How can you have been posting bullshit for ever on these threads and still not know what an atheist is? You really are the dumbest person I've ever read here on this blog, and that includes Kenny. That's saying something.
Unlike you, we don't believe in some fairy made afterlife. We believe this life is all we get, therefore, life is INCREDIBLY important to us. We don't have the "faith" you do that some sky-daddy will sort everything out in the end and make it right. We have to do the work ourselves.
We don't believe in goodness, truth, or beauty? Define "goodness". Is that the bit in your holy book that tells us just how much we can beat our slaves? Truth? You're the one living in a fantasy world with made up beings and rules... what do you know of truth? Beauty? I can enjoy the world and it's beauty more than you ever can, because I allow myself to see the wonders around me instead of focusing on hoped for unrealities.
No meaning? Your life would have no meaning without your imaginary friend? You wouldn't want to build a better world for your children, your wife, for everyone? You wouldn't see a reason to get up in the morning? You are DEEPLY sick. Get to a mental health professional immediately.
Human beings have no intrinsic worth? You're the one who views the imaginary soul as the end-all be-all. Not us.
And as has been put to you probably 50 times already. THERE HAVE BEEN NO GREAT MASSACRES IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM!!! There have been atheists who committed massacres, but not in it's name. There have been MANY massacres committed in the name of religion.
I don't know why I bother. You don't appear to be able to reason. All you can do is spout dogma. You stopped using your brain and it's atrophied to the point that it no longer functions. It's pathetic. really.
Posted by: RelidjusGuy931285 | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
Fore reasins why you athists are rong:
1. I hate you.
2. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Mauris accumsan, neque et tincidunt porttitor, erat orci condimentum nunc, eu commodo ante pede vel ligula!
Fred 7:13
3. Im' mad.
Posted by: Mark B | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
I suppose I just have to be satisfied with the neighbor of the beast, since Patrick got post #666.
Posted by: JF | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
Sooooooooooooo happy to be done with religion after over twenty years of active intellectual denial and ongoing suspended disbelief. Sorry folk there is no evidence for anything supernatural and to think otherwise involves hanging up your thinking processes and holding onto a story with no more merit than tooth ferries, Santa or waiting vestal virgin daiquiris'.
Posted by: laurisa | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
Which stupid fuckers didn't get the memo: DON'T PRAY IN OUR SCHOOL, WE WON'T THINK IN YOUR CHURCH! Oh, must be those christians when god pulled a no show that day. Like the long ass posts are getting read with any hint of seriousness. Are you winning? Do you feel strong? dumbasses.
I was mighty put out though when I stopped the scroll long enough to see that 'church' has desecrated ME...why is that feeble shack a "she?" total bummage.
Posted by: Ale | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
@stogoe:
Yikes! Way cool. I consider myself outgeeked :D
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 4:13 PM
Ok if the worst that can be said about the Hindu cow analogy is where he ate the meat I'm happy, it works. The sentiment is the same.
Then you don't ever eat beef? If you do, the sentiment is the same, and you're acting, as you said, in poor taste. And as was said long ago by someone else on one of the epic threads, if you eat pork, you're pissing on Jews and Muslims, and if you swat a mosquito, the Jains will be miffed.
Posted by: Bureaucratus Minimis | July 24, 2008 4:14 PM
I want to revisit TG's original post @ 39. I think everyone(*) here has missed that he and those like him are totally running scared:
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
See, he's in denial. He refuses to believe that anyone could or would actually "desecrate" the cracker. In his mind nobody would dare do this for fear of divine retribution. Also, IHO there are no real atheists, only believers who are angry at god.
So no matter what proof you offer him, he can still cling to his worldview. Just like poor Binky Brown...
(*) OK, I stopped reading @ 241 because of all the duplicate posts and ridiculously long gibberish about the cracker.
Posted by: erik542 | July 24, 2008 4:14 PM
Ooo monty python reference. Nice. Very fitting too.
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 24, 2008 4:14 PM
Fixed.
Posted by: Fr. J | July 24, 2008 4:15 PM
BTW, Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus did not originate at Lateran IV. It predates it by centuries, see St. Cyprian. Also PZ doesn't even understand what it means. The interpretation of it is apparently beyond his intellect. Hopefully he will retract his error, but let's not hold our breaths.
Also the Council legislation concerning Jews dealt primarily with limiting interest rates ie. usury. It did NOT mandate a yellow star of David. It stated that Jews and Muslims were to wear distinguishing dress. Why? Because of the tension between the groups and the fact that in Islamic lands this was part of their law. Also this was part of Jewish law and was enforced by Jews in Israel. In other words it was common in virtually all societies at the time. Did Jews get a fair shake? No. But they never have from almost anyone. We at least have taken steps to establish good relations with Jews. PZ hates Jews and despises their religion. Think about what he would do to the Torah if he had a chance.
Jews also could not vote or hold office in many early American colonies. Atheists, like in the old USSR, treated Jews terribly. PZ didn't mention that? Of course not. The fact is that PZ and atheists don't really care about how Jews are treated. It is a tactic and nothing more. He would have no qualms about eliminating Jews. Remember, for him nothing is sacred.
Does he mention how atheists treated Christians during the French revolution? About how many heads have rolled because of people like himself? The brutality of atheism beggars the imagination and makes religious people look like amateurs. 100,000,000 dead on account of PZ's philosophy in the last century. Don't deny it, we all know it is true. We can read.
All of this is a cloak in which he hides his own bigotry and hate. He wants to distract you and justify his own actions. Don't be fooled. For him, NOTHING IS SACRED, and that includes the truth.
Posted by: gb | July 24, 2008 4:15 PM
A toast to our host (PZ ... not the other one) for such an educational demise of that which is not sacred.
Posted by: Sam | July 24, 2008 4:15 PM
So, let's see. In my question for knowledge, to whom shall I look as a model of intellectual inquiry, rigor, and substance? Prof. P.Z. Myers on the one hand, Thomas Aquinas on the other hand.
Hmmmmm...tough choice, isn't it...
Posted by: CJ | July 24, 2008 4:15 PM
In keeping with the whole body of christ theme, I believe you shorted the host a few nails.
Posted by: Bugger Pope | July 24, 2008 4:16 PM
Oh, silly Mike @ #670! You Catholics are ALWAYS trying to get more little boys to join up, aren't you?
Posted by: The Adamant Atheist | July 24, 2008 4:16 PM
#671--
Nazi Germany was predominantly Christian. From the rank-and-file Wehrmacht soldier up to the top-ranked generals, Christians had more than their fair share of participation in the Third Reich's evil doings.
You fail.
P.S. God doesn't exist. Have a nice day.
Posted by: Nino | July 24, 2008 4:16 PM
I like the way you got the fruit that is THE proof for ID involced in all of this as well !
Plus equal oportunity by ripping pafges out of Dawkins.....
Well done !
Posted by: Jason | July 24, 2008 4:17 PM
Tonight, I eat a box of Saltines in memorial of the cracker.
Posted by: Parsnip Money | July 24, 2008 4:17 PM
Donahue has responded. Any minute now the Catholic A-Team Go Force Samurai Cyber Squad Patrol will be knocking down PZ's door and saving their beloved piece of be-yeasted flour.
CRACKERGATE HAS BEGUN.
Posted by: CarpeGuitarrem | July 24, 2008 4:17 PM
Interesting. Apparently you view Richard Dawkins' book as a holy text?
Posted by: firemancarl | July 24, 2008 4:17 PM
@#569. No, the Chermans weren't atheists you silly god botherer. They all fully believed. Even Himmler thought he could find 'the holy grail'. Heck the Wehrmacht were issued belt buckles with 'Gott mit uns' on 'em. Totally what you'd expect from an atheist army. I dig your logic, i have since converted.
Posted by: HC Grindon | July 24, 2008 4:17 PM
"He's not just wacka-loon, he's a cracka-loon!"
Frickin hi-larious! A new term is coined! ROFLMAO!
Posted by: Nina in London | July 24, 2008 4:18 PM
#427 was in answer to what I wrote:
Hey, PZ is a comedian! To us Catholics, transubstantiation is *exactly* the difference. It is a wafer of wheat with the exactly the same form and taste as before the consecration, but after consecration the form is still of wheat but the substance is now the Body of Christ.
#427 replied:
"That is meaningless. It is just an abuse of the English language. What you are in effect saying is that it is both the same and different. That is simply nonsensical. What properties does it have after consecration that it did not have before ? If there are no physical differences then there is no difference. Did you not do science at school or something ? There is an important concept in science, that basically states if you cannot tell two things apart then they are identical."
MY RESPONSE:
Science and Religion have different remits, they are not mutually exclusive. Science is the how, Religion is the why. People ask "WHY do I exist? What does my life mean?" Science does not provide answers to that. That is Religion's job.
Science is neutral, scientists pose hypotheses and argue them to try to explain things in the world. Science does not deal with the soul, heaven, morality, goodness, the agonising question of why people behave violently to each other. Again, Religion offers answers.
Science is always changing - one hypothesis gets replaced by another as further discoveries are made.
I personally don't look to Science for inspiration, spiritual uplift and moral guidance, to make sense of life, to give a wider context.
Religion deals with the eternal. God. Religion is the expression of man's longing for something greater than he is. We Christians believe that God became Man to show us how we can live life to the full, to live as one, with respect for all others on earth, not to live selfishly. To love when love seems impossible, as Jesus did.
(And now I really must go home because it's late over here!)
Posted by: Michelle | July 24, 2008 4:18 PM
Katie Couric now? Had a sex change?
I have to agree with that name for that post this time, John. She's a great way to measure shit.
Posted by: Boosterz | July 24, 2008 4:18 PM
For all the claims to vast cosmic power that they attribute to their god, I would expect something flashier then sending a minion to spam the comments with cut and paste nonsense. lol
Posted by: randy | July 24, 2008 4:18 PM
reversing the situation, circle your answer:
Fred Phelps has or has not received death threats.
Fred Phelps and his clan should be allowed to protest inside, outside, nearby, two blocks away or not at all at funerals of returned soldiers and homosexuals.
Posted by: Marsten | July 24, 2008 4:19 PM
You have offended my God in your desecration of our most holy artifacts, the Sacred Banana! Heathen and blasphemer, know you not that those who decry against the Sacred Banana will be sludged forever in its yellowey goo?
May you slip on many a banana skin for such heresy!
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2008 4:19 PM
I hope PZ tosses another consecrated cracker in the trash for every time that big-ass stupid screed of whatever-the-hell-I-won't-read-it gets posted.
Posted by: Rodney Trotter | July 24, 2008 4:19 PM
Carlie -
Yes I eat beef - but specific cows are sacred to Hindus, not every one. If I ate the specific cow they had told me previously was some incarnation of whoever, just to prove a point to them, I would feel a bit disappointed with myself.
Posted by: Owlmirror | July 24, 2008 4:20 PM
Voltaire: "écrasez l'infâme".
Bill Donahue: Arrest Voltaire!
Posted by: Ben D | July 24, 2008 4:20 PM
If you believe that truth is relative, why can't you respect what "my truth" is? I believe that the host becomes Jesus. You don't. I respect that you don't believe; I have no issue with your disbelief. I don't make fun of you for not believing. As a fellow human, I would have expected the respect to be reciprocal.
Posted by: Drake33 | July 24, 2008 4:20 PM
Ran the Trolls' ungodly length cut and paste rambling it through the ghetto translator. It was... too long for the Ghetto Translator to handle so I trimmed off a couple of lines. Much better if you ask me. Enjoy:
CONCLUSION
60. At da dawn uh dis third millennium, we, da children uh da Church, be called to undasnatch wid renewed enthusiasm da journey uh Christian livin`. As ah` wrote in my Apostolic Letter Novo Millennio Ineunte, \"it be not a matta` uh inventin` a 'new programme'. da programme aleyebally exists: dat be da plan found in da Gospel and in da livin` Tradition; dat be da same as ever. Ultimately, dat gots its centre in Christ himself, who be to be known, loved and imitated, so that in him we may live da life uh da Trinity, and wid him transform histo`y until its fulfilment in da heavenly Jerusalem\".103 da implementation uh dis programme uh a renewed impetus in Christian livin` passes through da Eucharist.
Every commitment to holiness, every activity aimed at wheelsrying out da Church's mission, every wo`k uh pastoral plannin`, must draw da strength dat needs from da Eucharistic mystery and in turn be directed to that mystery as its culmination. In da Eucharist we have Jesus, we have his redemptive sacrifice, we have his resurrection, we have da gift uh da Holy Spirit, we have adoration, obedience and love uh da pops. Were we to disregard da Eucharist, how could we overcome our own deficiency?
61. da mystery uh da Eucharist - sacrifice, presence, banquet - duz not allow fo` reduction o` exploitation; dat must be experienced and lived in its integrity, both in its celebration and in da intimate converse wid Jesus which snatchs place after receivin` communion o` in a prayerful moment uh Eucharistic adoration apart from Mass. dese be times when da Church be firmly built up and dat becomes clear what she truly be: one, holy, catholic and apostolic; da people, temple and family uh God; da body and bride uh Christ, enlivened by da Holy Spirit; da universal sacrament uh salvation and a hierarchically structured communion.
The path snatchn by da Church in dese fust years uh da third millennium be also a path uh renewed ecumenical commitment. da final decades uh da second millennium, culminatin` in da Grfeed Jubilee, have spurred us along dis path and called fo` all da baptized to respond to da prayer uh Jesus \"ut unum sint \" (Jn 17:11). da path itself be long and strewn wid obstacles grfeeder than our human resources alone kin overcome, yet we have da Eucharist, and in its presence we kin hear in da depths uh our hearts, as if they were addressed to us, da same wo`ds heard by da Prophet Elijah: \"Arise and feed, else da journey will be n` all grfeed fo` you\" (1 Kg 19:7). da treasho` uh da Eucharist, which da Lord places befo`e us, impels us towards da goal uh full sharin` wid all our brothas and sistas to whom we be joined by our common Baptism. But if dis treasho` be not to be squandered, we need to respect da demands which derive from its being da sacrament uh communion in faith and in apostolic succession.
By givin` da Eucharist da prominence dat deserves, and by being wheelseful not to diminish enny uh its dimensions o` demands, we show that we be truly conscious uh da grfeedness uh dis gift. We be urged to do so by an uninterrupted tradition, which from da fust centuries on gots found da Christian community ever vigilant in guarding dis \"treasho`\". Inspired by love, da Church be anxious to hand on to future generations uh Christians, widout loss, her faith and teaching wid regard to da mystery uh da Eucharist. dere kin be no danger uh excess in our wheelse fo` dis mystery, fo` \"in dis sacrament be recapitulated da whole mystery uh our salvation\".104
62. Let us snatch our place, dear brothas and sistas, at da school uh da saints, who be da grfeed interpreters uh true Eucharistic piety. In dem da theology uh da Eucharist snatchs on all da splendour uh a lived reality; dat becomes \"contagious\" and, in a manner uh speakin`, dat \"warms our hearts\". Above all, let us listen to Mary Most Holy, in whom da mystery uh da Eucharist appears, mo`e than in ennyone else, as a mystery uh light. Gazing upon Mary, we mosey on down to know da transformin` power present in da Eucharist. In her we see da wo`ld renewed in love. Contemplatin` her, assumed body and soul into heaven, we see jimmeyin` up befo`e us those \"new heavens\" and that \"new earth\" which will appear at da second comin` uh Christ. Here below, da Eucharist represents their pledge, and in a certain way, their anticipation: \"Veni, Domine Iesu!\" (Rev 22:20).
In da humble signs uh beyeball and wine, changed into his body and blood, Christ walks beside us as our strength and our food fo` da journey, and he enables us to become, fo` everyone, witnesses uh hope. If, in da presence uh dis mystery, reason experiences its limits, da heart, enlightened by da grace uh da Holy Spirit, clearly sees da response that be demanded, and bows low in adoration and unbounded love.
Let us make our own da wo`ds uh Saint Thomas Aquinas, an eminent theologian and an impassioned poet uh Christ in da Eucharist, and turn in hope to da contemplation uh that goal to which our hearts aspire in their thirst fo` joy and peace:
Bone pastor, panis vere,
Iesu, nostrah` miserere...
Come then, phat Shepherd, beyeball divine,
Still show to us thy mercy sign;
Oh, feed us, still keep us thine;
So we may see thy glories shine
in fields uh immo`tality.
O thou, da wisest, mightiest, best,
Our present food, our future rest,
Come, make us each thy chosen guest,
Co-heirs uh thine, and comrades blest
wid saints whose dwelling be wid thee.
Given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, on 17 April, Holy Thursday, in da year 2003, da Twenty- fifth uh my Pontificate, da Year uh da Rosary.
Posted by: The Adamant Atheist | July 24, 2008 4:21 PM
Fr. J,
You kook, atheism isn't a philosophy. It's a state of disbelief in gods. Just like your (I presume) disbelief in Santa Claus is a state of disbelief and not a whole philosophy.
I challenge you to define atheism in an objective manner.
This should be revealing.
Posted by: Helioprogenus | July 24, 2008 4:21 PM
Did you all hear that? No? That's the sound of an idiot masturbating over a treastise that another idiot with a hat decided to implement a number of years ago. Listen, do you morons actually seriously think you're going to convert even one person here? If you really want to save someone, go help those suffering with aids because they were told they would go to hell for using contraceptives. Go to the little children molested by priests and help them understand that only sick, misguided individuals like yourselves would ever do that to them. While you're at it, why don't you pray to your imaginary deity and stop pestering us. You're just proving why we don't need your kind, and why the world would be better off when all of you are dead and gone. In Essence, go fuck yourselves your religious assholes.
Posted by: Pat | July 24, 2008 4:22 PM
Go John go! LOL
Posted by: david broome | July 24, 2008 4:23 PM
Way to go, PZ. You have my full support. Its time to stand up and be counted for your what you DO believe in: the power of evidence and reasoned argument. Long live science!
Posted by: Keith B | July 24, 2008 4:23 PM
PZ, get rid of spamming John. A single post and a link from him would have sufficed, but nooo... now everyone has to spend forty thousand minutes scrolling past his nonsense to see the rest of the comments.
Posted by: Enshoku | July 24, 2008 4:24 PM
nina, that is bullshit. Science does explain altruism(goodness), morality, and that little thing called violence. The first two stem from societal structures as well as propagation of the species, and violence comes from too many things to name, emotional highs, lack of education, primitive instincts, etc.
Posted by: dubiquiabs | July 24, 2008 4:24 PM
@ #121 #134 #145 #151 and all the other believers:
"Absolute Truth" appears to be neither.
Posted by: AGH | July 24, 2008 4:25 PM
Nice desecration, PZ! You still have the option to hock a loogie on it if necessary.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 24, 2008 4:25 PM
Ogod. Your blog has been Ecclesiastijacked.
Posted by: oldcola | July 24, 2008 4:25 PM
Quite entertaining post, thank you PZ.
People, let's get PZ's trash viral, all over the blogs ;-)
Posted by: Pat | July 24, 2008 4:25 PM
Well done John. Speaking of John ......
The Gospel According to Saint John
1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 1:4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not. 1:6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 1:7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 1:8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 1:9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 1:10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 1:11He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. 1:15John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me. 1:16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 1:17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 1:19And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent unto him from Jerusalem priests and Levites to ask him, Who art thou? 1:20And he confessed, and denied not; and he confessed, I am not the Christ. 1:21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No. 1:22They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 1:23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. 1:24And they had been sent from the Pharisees. 1:25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Christ, neither Elijah, neither the prophet? 1:26John answered them, saying, I baptize in water: in the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not, 1:27even he that cometh after me, the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to unloose. 1:28These things were done in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 1:29On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world! 1:30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man who is become before me: for he was before me. 1:31And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. 1:32And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit. 1:34And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God. 1:35Again on the morrow John was standing, and two of his disciples; 1:36and he looked upon Jesus as he walked, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God! 1:37And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 1:38And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou? 1:39He saith unto them, Come, and ye shall see. They came therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day: it was about the tenth hour. 1:40One of the two that heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ). 1:42He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter). 1:43On the morrow he was minded to go forth into Galilee, and he findeth Philip: and Jesus saith unto him, Follow me. 1:44Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter. 1:45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 1:46And Nathanael said unto him, Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 1:47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 1:49Nathanael answered him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel. 1:50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee underneath the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
2:1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2:2and Jesus also was bidden, and his disciples, to the marriage. 2:3And when the wine failed, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 2:4And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 2:5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. 2:6Now there were six waterpots of stone set there after the Jews' manner of purifying, containing two or three firkins apiece. 2:7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 2:8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the ruler of the feast. And they bare it. 2:9And when the ruler of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and knew not whence it was (but the servants that had drawn the water knew), the ruler of the feast calleth the bridegroom, 2:10and saith unto him, Every man setteth on first the good wine; and when men have drunk freely, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now. 2:11This beginning of his signs did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed on him. 2:12After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples; and there they abode not many days. 2:13And the passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 2:14And he found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 2:15and he made a scourge of cords, and cast all out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen; and he poured out the changers' money, and overthrew their tables; 2:16and to them that sold the doves he said, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. 2:17His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for thy house shall eat me up. 2:18The Jews therefore answered and said unto him, What sign showest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 2:19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 2:20The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days? 2:21But he spake of the temple of his body. 2:22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he spake this; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. 2:23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, during the feast, many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he did. 2:24But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, 2:25and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man.
3:1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 3:2the same came unto him by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that thou doest, except God be with him. 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 3:4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 3:5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God! 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. 3:8The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 3:9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 3:10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou the teacher of Israel, and understandest not these things? 3:11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that which we know, and bear witness of that which we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12If I told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things? 3:13And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven. 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 3:15that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 3:17For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:19And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 3:20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. 3:21But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. 3:22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 3:23And John also was baptizing in Enon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 3:24For John was not yet cast into prison. 3:25There arose therefore a questioning on the part of John's disciples with a Jew about purifying. 3:26And they came unto John, and said to him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond the Jordan, to whom thou hast borne witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 3:27John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven. 3:28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him. 3:29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full. 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease. 3:31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 3:32What he hath seen and heard, of that he beareth witness; and no man receiveth his witness. 3:33He that hath received his witness hath set his seal to this, that God is true. 3:34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure. 3:35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
4:1When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 4:2(although Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples), 4:3he left Judea, and departed again into Galilee. 4:4And he must needs pass through Samaria. 4:5So he cometh to a city of Samaria, called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph: 4:6and Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour. 4:7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 4:8For his disciples were gone away into the city to buy food. 4:9The Samaritan woman therefore saith unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, who am a Samaritan woman? (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 4:10Jesus answered and said unto unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 4:11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: whence then hast thou that living water? 4:12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his sons, and his cattle? 4:13Jesus answered and said unto her, Every one that drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 4:14but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life. 4:15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. 4:16Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 4:17The woman answered and said unto him, I have no husband. Jesus saith unto her, Thou saidst well, I have no husband: 4:18for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: this hast thou said truly. 4:19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 4:21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father. 4:22Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. 4:25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. 4:26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 4:27And upon this came his disciples; and they marvelled that he was speaking with a woman; yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why speakest thou with her? 4:28So the woman left her waterpot, and went away into the city, and saith to the people, 4:29Come, see a man, who told me all things that ever I did: can this be the Christ? 4:30They went out of the city, and were coming to him. 4:31In the mean while the disciples prayed him, saying, Rabbi, eat. 4:32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not. 4:33The disciples therefore said one to another, Hath any man brought him aught to eat? 4:34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to accomplish his work. 4:35Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh the harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, that they are white already unto harvest. 4:36He that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal; that he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 4:37For herein is the saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. 4:38I sent you to reap that whereon ye have not labored: others have labored, and ye are entered into their labor. 4:39And from that city many of the Samaritans believed on him because of the word of the woman, who testified, He told me all things that ever I did. 4:40So when the Samaritans came unto him, they besought him to abide with them: and he abode there two days. 4:41And many more believed because of his word; 4:42and they said to the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy speaking: for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Saviour of the world. 4:43And after the two days he went forth from thence into Galilee. 4:44For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honor in his own country. 4:45So when he came into Galilee, the Galilaeans received him, having seen all the things that he did in Jerusalem at the feast: for they also went unto the feast. 4:46He came therefore again unto Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. 4:47When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son; for he was at the point of death. 4:48Jesus therefore said unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will in no wise believe. 4:49The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die. 4:50Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. The man believed the word that Jesus spake unto him, and he went his way. 4:51And as he was now going down, his servants met him, saying, that his son lived. 4:52So he inquired of them the hour when he began to amend. They said therefore unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him. 4:53So the father knew that it was at that hour in which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house. 4:54This is again the second sign that Jesus did, having come out of Judaea into Galilee.
5:1After these things there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 5:2Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew Bethesda, having five porches. 5:3In these lay a multitude of them that were sick, blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. 5:4for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the waters stepped in was made whole, with whatsoever disease he was holden. 5:5And a certain man was there, who had been thirty and eight years in his infirmity. 5:6When Jesus saw him lying, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wouldest thou be made whole? 5:7The sick man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. 5:8Jesus saith unto him, Arise, take up thy bed, and walk. 5:9And straightway the man was made whole, and took up his bed and walked. Now it was the sabbath on that day. 5:10So the Jews said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath, and it is not lawful for thee to take up thy bed. 5:11But he answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. 5:12They asked him, Who is the man that said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? 5:13But he that was healed knew not who it was; for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in the place. 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee. 5:15The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him whole. 5:16And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath. 5:17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work. 5:18For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 5:19Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel. 5:21For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 5:22For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 5:23that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. 5:25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: 5:27and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 5:29and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 5:30I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 5:32It is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 5:33Ye have sent unto John, and he hath borne witness unto the truth. 5:34But the witness which I receive is not from man: howbeit I say these things, that ye may be saved. 5:35He was the lamp that burneth and shineth; and ye were willing to rejoice for a season in his light. 5:36But the witness which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father hath given me to accomplish, the very works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 5:37And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 5:38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not. 5:39Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; 5:40and ye will not come to me, that ye may have life. 5:41I receive not glory from men. 5:42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in yourselves. 5:43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that cometh from the only God ye seek not? 5:45Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 5:46For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 5:47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
6:1After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias. 6:2And a great multitude followed him, because they beheld the signs which he did on them that were sick. 6:3And Jesus went up into the mountain, and there he sat with his disciples. 6:4Now the passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand. 6:5Jesus therefore lifting up his eyes, and seeing that a great multitude cometh unto him, saith unto Philip, Whence are we to buy bread, that these may eat? 6:6And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do. 6:7Philip answered him, Two hundred shillings' worth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one may take a little. 6:8One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, saith unto him, 6:9There is a lad here, who hath five barley loaves, and two fishes: but what are these among so many? 6:10Jesus said, Make the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand. 6:11Jesus therefore took the loaves; and having given thanks, he distributed to them that were set down; likewise also of the fishes as much as they would. 6:12And when they were filled, he saith unto his disciples, Gather up the broken pieces which remain over, that nothing be lost. 6:13So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with broken pieces from the five barley loaves, which remained over unto them that had eaten. 6:14When therefore the people saw the sign which he did, they said, This is of a truth the prophet that cometh into the world. 6:15Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone. 6:16And when evening came, his disciples went down unto the sea; 6:17and they entered into a boat, and were going over the sea unto Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. 6:18And the sea was rising by reason of a great wind that blew. 6:19When therefore they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they behold Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the boat: and they were afraid. 6:20But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid. 6:21They were willing therefore to receive him into the boat: and straightway the boat was at the land whither they were going. 6:22On the morrow the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, save one, and that Jesus entered not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples went away alone 6:23(howbeit there came boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks): 6:24when the multitude therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they themselves got into the boats, and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. 6:25And when they found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 6:26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw signs, but because ye ate of the loaves, and were filled. 6:27Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Father, even God, hath sealed. 6:28They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? 6:29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 6:30They said therefore unto him, What then doest thou for a sign, that we may see, and believe thee? what workest thou? 6:31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, He gave them bread out of heaven to eat. 6:32Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, It was not Moses that gave you the bread out of heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread out of heaven. 6:33For the bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 6:34They said therefore unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 6:35Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 6:36But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. 6:37All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 6:38For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 6:39And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:41The Jews therefore murmured concerning him, because he said, I am the bread which came down out of heaven. 6:42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how doth he now say, I am come down out of heaven? 6:43Jesus answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. 6:45It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father. 6:47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. 6:48I am the bread of life. 6:49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 6:50This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 6:51I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. 6:52The Jews therefore strove one with another, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 6:53Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves. 6:54He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 6:56He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. 6:57As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me. 6:58This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. 6:59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 6:60Many therefore of his disciples, when the heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it? 6:61But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said unto them, Doth this cause you to stumble? 6:62What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before? 6:63It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life. 6:64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. 6:65And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father. 6:66Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 6:67Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 6:68Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 6:69And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God. 6:70Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? 6:71Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
7:1And after these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Judaea, because the Jews sought to kill him. 7:2Now the feast of the Jews, the feast of tabernacles, was at hand. 7:3His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may behold thy works which thou doest. 7:4For no man doeth anything in secret, and himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou doest these things, manifest thyself to the world. 7:5For even his brethren did not believe on him. 7:6Jesus therefore saith unto them, My time is not yet come; but your time is always ready. 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that its works are evil. 7:8Go ye up unto the feast: I go not up unto this feast; because my time is not yet fulfilled. 7:9And having said these things unto them, he abode still in Galilee. 7:10But when his brethren were gone up unto the feast, then went he also up, not publicly, but as it were in secret. 7:11The Jews therefore sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he? 7:12And there w