Turnabout is fair play : Pharyngula

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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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« Templeton discovers mortality | Main | My mailbox is a funny place »

Turnabout is fair play

Category: Humor
Posted on: July 8, 2008 2:52 PM, by PZ Myers

(Click for larger and more complete image)

Not bad, but really, the guy in the glasses ought to be redrawn with a beard.

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Comments

Posted by: Randy | July 8, 2008 3:00 PM

I knew you were a closet evangelist

Posted by: JohnnieCanuck, FCD | July 8, 2008 3:03 PM

Yes, but he's outed himself now.

This has possibilities. Wonder how easy it would be to get a copy of the local church directories. Just to avoid annoying non theists.

Posted by: stevogvsu | July 8, 2008 3:05 PM

Brillian! PZ, thanks for posting this.

Posted by: Lord Zero | July 8, 2008 3:08 PM

ahaha, great... thats would be so cool...
Anyway, students should do it for extra credits.

Posted by: qbsmd | July 8, 2008 3:09 PM

"annoying non theists"

Because getting a free copy of the Principia would be so annoying.

Posted by: Greg Laden | July 8, 2008 3:09 PM

Right behind you, PZ

Posted by: ed | July 8, 2008 3:09 PM

That would be cool to do sometime.Anybody know of a highly populated Jehovah's Witnesses neighborhood?

Posted by: Glen Davidson | July 8, 2008 3:11 PM

But Newtonian physics already is the state religion (evolution could be seen as a branch of classical physics).

We made it that way so that we wouldn't have to go door-to-door.

In fact, many theists have made peace with the dogma of Newton, clearly doing our bidding in dominating our society with our religion of atheism.

Only the IDiots still fight against Newtonian physics, holdouts against our domination of society and religion. And I'm not really kidding, you know. They may idolize Newton as a theist, but Dembski's Aristotelian biology has to be supported by Aristotelian physics (just as Newton's physics is the implicit basis of evolution), and he desires to reintroduce Aristotle's four causes--especially the final cause.

He is against Newton's Principia, he just wouldn't want to advertise the fact too much.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 8, 2008 3:15 PM

"Not bad, but really, the guy in the glasses ought to be redrawn with a beard."

And tell me the other guy isn't a dead ringer for Phil Plait, well, also sans facial hair...

#10

Posted by: techskeptic | July 8, 2008 3:25 PM

I would have passed out Demon Haunted World.

#11

Posted by: ThePetey | July 8, 2008 3:27 PM

Not bad, but really, the guy in the glasses ought to be redrawn with a beard.

Without a beard he looks like a computer programmer,
and that's BARELY science.
(snark)

#12

Posted by: PZ Myers | July 8, 2008 3:29 PM

Hmm, you're right -- that IS Greg Laden in the picture.

#13

Posted by: Zack | July 8, 2008 3:30 PM

Hey - I'd pretend to be a theist if someone would bring me a free copy of Principia (hard cover with gold leaf, would be excellent)...

#14

Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 8, 2008 3:33 PM

The Principia is abstruse and archaic, even if it's translated out of the Latin. A far better choice would be, say, the newest edition of The Feynman Lectures on Physics.

#15

Posted by: Peter Ashby | July 8, 2008 3:41 PM

That cartoon describes my interactions with religious callers except the speech bubbles would have to be swapped. I always try and send them off with the wish that the light of reason and knowledge will enlighten their lives.

Someone has been channeling me.....

#16

Posted by: Coriolis | July 8, 2008 3:44 PM

Take it easy there, you don't want to spring Feynman on unsuspecting innocents. That's too much irreverent anti-authoritarian smartass-ness for them to handle. Don't want to be "militant" evil atheists now, do we?

I think the Principia is old and archaic enough to tone down the shock that comes about from the fact that it actually makes sense, unlike the preferred theist reading.

#17

Posted by: J | July 8, 2008 3:49 PM

Has anyone out there ever actually read the Principia, from cover to cover?

#18

Posted by: Philippe | July 8, 2008 3:51 PM

RE post #14:

you know you are in a geek dominated thread when...

#19

Posted by: Umbo | July 8, 2008 3:59 PM

Darwin's Disciples? The Followers of Faraday? Huxley's Host? Wallace's Witnesses?

#20

Posted by: Mena | July 8, 2008 4:04 PM

Ok, who gets Salt Lake City and who gets Colorado Springs?

#21

Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 8, 2008 4:11 PM

John Safran already did Salt Lake City.

#22

Posted by: Sastra | July 8, 2008 4:12 PM

My favorite part is where the Science Proselytizers respond to the annoyed victim with the blithe assumption that "hostility" is of course a sign that the other guy must secretly know that he's wrong. It's the flip version of the tired old "why are atheists so angry?" canard that gets trotted out with dreary regularity by the smug. Atheists have a bad attitude because they're mad at the church, or the world, or God. There's something wrong with them, and it has nothing to do with the actual issue. Of course.

Argue against belief in God and though you maintain the general composure and nonconfrontational bonhommie of Mr. Rogers on qualudes, you still get called on emotional excess. The spiritually mature are always serene with the confidence of being Attuned to the Cosmic Mind. The spiritually thwarted are what they expect. No matter how you try to couch the critique, their intuition hones in on the real problem.

"I'm sensing hostility. Why does the truth offend you?"

"I'll say it again. The first tactic to avoid addressing the hard question of the validity of religious belief is to reply with a criticism of those who don't believe. Don't fall for it." (PZ Myers)

#23

Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 8, 2008 4:14 PM

That would be cool to do sometime.Anybody know of a highly populated Jehovah's Witnesses neighborhood?

Not quite the same thing, but the first time I did any door-to-door political canvassing, the very first house we came to turned out to belong to some Jehovah's Nuisances. When they explained why they wouldn't take one of our leaflets (any political activity is a no-no) the two of us burst out laughing, but n aturally they didn't see the funny side of it.

#24

Posted by: Steve | July 8, 2008 4:14 PM

John Safran vs. The Mormons.

He used "The Origin of Species".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fic56JN7aIw

#25

Posted by: Mena | July 8, 2008 4:19 PM

Brownian, that was very funny. The world needs more Aussies to tell everyone how it is!

#26

Posted by: David | July 8, 2008 4:19 PM

Try this in Boro Park or Crown Heights in Brooklyn, for a different flavor.

All fundie, just no Jayzus.

#27

Posted by: David | July 8, 2008 4:28 PM

On second thought... don't really do that (Brooklyn, among the fundie Jews). You will get your ass kicked. Probably put you in the hospital.

There's nothing like a fairly high verbal intelligence, educated to the hilt on illogical twaddle and then confronted with an unwelcome blast of cognitive dissonance to make for reactions more volatile than their inhibitions can handle.

(I know from experience, I lived among this crowd for longer than I care to remember before escaping to the light)

#28

Posted by: RickD | July 8, 2008 4:30 PM

Is this supposed to be picking fun on scientists or not?

You've cut out a lot of the panels of this strip, including the one where the guy answering the door tries to politely dismiss the scientists by saying that he's eating dinner. You also cut out the 'Amen' (which, BTW, isn't an inherently religious thing to say, even though most people think it is).

#29

Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 8, 2008 4:30 PM

Umbo@19,
Faraday was a lifelong fundie fruitcake himself, and Wallace, I grieve to state, became a spiritualist. Darwin was far too polite and reclusive - has to be Huxley, or for a more up-to-date flavour, Dawkins or our own tentacled overlord. Huxley's Hordes? Dawkins' Dobermanns? Myers' Minions?

#30

Posted by: OrchidGrowinMan | July 8, 2008 4:30 PM

You've all heard the joke about

"What do you get from a cross between a JW and a UU?"
"Somebody who knocks on your door at 8AM on a Sunday to talk about nothing in particular."
"What about a cross between a JW and an Atheist? (and how likely is that?)"
"They're there at 8 wanting to talk about absolutely nothing at all."

But that's just not right. I think caroling is better:

"Gods Rest Ye, Uni...err Rationalists"

Gods rest ye, Noble Atheists, let nothing you dismay; Remember there's no evidence there was a Christmas Day; When Christ was born is just not known, no matter what they say, O, Tidings of reason and fact, reason and fact, Glad tidings of reason and fact.

Our current Christmas Customs come from Persia and from Greece, >From solstice celebrations of the ancient Middle East. This whole darn Christmas spiel is just another pagan feast, O, Tidings of reason and fact, reason and fact, Glad tidings of reason and fact.

There was no star of Bethlehem, there was no angels' song; There could not have been wise men for the trip would take too long. The stories in the Bible are historically wrong, O, Tidings of reason and fact, reason and fact, Glad tidings of reason and fact!

I wouldn't try that back home in Georgia, but it would be a hoot to go around with my friends out here with a Rationalist Songbook!

#31

Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 8, 2008 4:32 PM

But don't you realize that the very next week thier neighborhood would be canvassed by those blasted Seventh Day New Atheists, handing out "The God Delusion"?

#32

Posted by: Jefe | July 8, 2008 4:41 PM

"Not bad, but really, the guy in the glasses ought to be redrawn with a beard." -PZ M.

Does PZ (or any member of his family) remember what his chin looks like?

#33

Posted by: Bill | July 8, 2008 4:53 PM

Re #12, speaking as a programmer, there is *no* science in programming, other than the machines we run on (which for many of us, may as well magic).

Re #19 The obvious one is Maxwell's Demons. :o)

#34

Posted by: Stephanie Z | July 8, 2008 5:05 PM

If that's Greg, he needs glasses--and a few more lines (or at least a keyboard off screen).

#35

Posted by: Sceptical Chymist | July 8, 2008 5:06 PM

Some years ago I tried to read Newton's Principia but found the reasoning too difficult for my ageing brain to follow. Newton invented calculus (he called his version fluxions) to work out the math in The Principia, but knowing that no one would accept that 0/0 = something (see Bishop Berkeley), he derived a separate series of purely geometrical proofs for The Principia, which even Euclid would have had difficulty with.

#36

Posted by: Selcaby | July 8, 2008 5:07 PM

OrchidGrowinMan, that's a great carol!

#37

Posted by: LightningRose | July 8, 2008 5:19 PM

Admittedly, this yet another made up religion, but the Solstice Carols are worth a listen, and would be fun to do.

http://www.cthulhulives.org/Solstice/

My favorite is "The Carol of the Old Ones". :)

http://www.cthulhulives.org/solsticecarol.html

#38

Posted by: DAM10N | July 8, 2008 5:20 PM

If you want to see a real world demo of this concept:
http://tinyURL.com/SafranMormon

All hail John Safran!

#39

Posted by: Longtime Lurker | July 8, 2008 6:05 PM

That would be cool to do sometime.Anybody know of a highly populated Jehovah's Witnesses neighborhood?

D.U.M.B.O. (Down Under Manhattan Bridge Overpass) in Brooklyn. It used to be a post-industrial neighborhood in which relatively cheap lofts could be found. The Witnesses have had a presence there since the early 20th Century and have built a humongous Watchtower compound. Mofos even generate their own electricity and have a church-run farm upstate.

http://dumbonyc.com/2006/11/16/glimpse-inside-jehovahs-witness-headquarters/

#40

Posted by: Nurse Ingrid | July 8, 2008 6:46 PM

OrchidGrowinMan, did you write that carol?

NICE scansion!!

#41

Posted by: Kel | July 8, 2008 7:14 PM

The science inquisition is here! And NOBODY expected it...

#42

Posted by: Bob | July 8, 2008 9:30 PM

Newton was a theist.

#43

Posted by: mandrake | July 8, 2008 9:31 PM

OrchidGrowinMan, you missed one:
What do you get when you cross a JH and an agnostic?
Someone who knocks on your door at 8AM and doesn't know why.

And I agree, that *is* very nice scansion.

#44

Posted by: amphiox | July 8, 2008 10:25 PM

Yeah, Newton was a theist.

Then again, Jesus was Jewish.

#45

Posted by: mandrake | July 8, 2008 11:56 PM

and WTF's a JH anyway?
I meant JW, obviously.
see what I get for being too lazy to type something out...

#46

Posted by: DLC | July 9, 2008 1:19 AM

Could someone go to Behe's door and Rebuke him in the name of Darwin ?

#47

Posted by: DavidR | July 9, 2008 2:54 AM

That would be cool to do sometime.Anybody know of a highly populated Jehovah's Witnesses neighborhood?

Some Aussies did this as a prank with Mormons in Salt Lake City. It was for a TV show in Oz. They were met with slamming doors and threats of physical violence.

You should be able to dig something up on youtube.

#48

Posted by: Andreas Johansson | July 9, 2008 6:57 AM

The Principia is abstruse and archaic, even if it's translated out of the Latin.

Hey, some of us like abstruse and archaic books, and could use the Latin practice.

#49

Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson, OM | July 9, 2008 8:51 AM

Old but grate on those who woo-ship.

Personally, I would undertake to knock door among Hollywood producers:

Pre-newtonian physics: "Bodies moves in straight lines if pushed." [Any film.]
Comic physics: "Bodies moves in straight lines for no reason." [Disney.]
Fiction physics: "Bodies makes no sounds when inappropriate."
Science fiction physics: "Bodies makes sounds when in vacuum."
Hero physics: "Bodies can take massive damage wherever and still make a move."
Superhero physics: "Bodies can take no damage whatsoever and still make a movie."

The Principia is abstruse and archaic, even if it's translated out of the Latin. A far better choice would be, say, the newest edition of The Feynman Lectures on Physics.

Already there's apocrypha and splitting.

#50

Posted by: Headache | July 9, 2008 9:54 AM

#33: There's scientific theory underlying a lot of programming, even if it doesn't come up much on a day-to-day basis.

I've spent time in "real" science and in programming and it all blurs together for me. Somebody has to write scientific code, and a little CS and SE background helps.

#51

Posted by: OrchidGrowinMan | July 9, 2008 10:43 AM

Nurse Ingrid, #40,

Nope, the "Unitarian Carols" have been floating around for years: I like parody and caricature, b/c they emphasize perceptually significant aspects of self-awareness and -identity and other-awareness and -identity. The problem is distinguising the orientation.

At the risk of offending the filter:
http://www.enk.freeuk.com/stories/uniangjokes.html
http://matt.baya.net/jokes/uu.html
Annnd, for all you PROGRAMMERS:
http://www.webmaster.crevier.org/beatles/
http://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/abort_retry_ignore.poem
http://bolt-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/10/happy-halloween.html
http://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/