…and this is a 
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Category: Academics • Religion
Posted on: July 26, 2008 8:21 AM, by PZ Myers
I guess that since the Catholic League was unable to fire up a stake in Minnesota, they're going to push for some success in Florida. Webster Cook has been impeached, and now look at this: his friend Benjamin Collard who was there but not involved in the heinous crime of not eating a cracker is being harassed by UCF.
"I tried to look at my class schedule," Collard said. "There was a hold placed on my account that I couldn't sign up for classes. I went to the office of Student conduct to see what was going on and they told me Catholic Campus Ministries filed charges against me."
Collard learned that he has been charged with misconduct, disruptive conduct and giving false identification, the exact same charges as Webster.
…
"I never spoke to a university official, I never lied about who I was," Collard added. "I never engaged in any disruptive conduct. I just think this is absolutely disgusting that they're going after me."
Because of the intolerance and superstition of the Catholic magisterium, two students are threatened with expulsion, suspension, or probation, and the University of Central Florida is going along with it. I find that absolutely disgusting, too. Don't worry about me, we ought to be barraging the president of UCF with mail in protest. Would you want to send your kids to a university that is willing to cave in to blustering Bill Donohue and subject them to an ecclesiastically motivated witch hunt?
Education & Careers
Comments
sent.
Posted by: Kirkq | July 26, 2008 8:27 AM
This is exactly why I'm happy you're around, PZ, we need people taking the fight right back to the cowards' doorsteps.
I'm tired of having my beliefs disrespected every damn day, more desecration forthwith and verily!!
Posted by: Damien | July 26, 2008 8:28 AM
Ungh, now I have to wipe the cobwebs from my brain and come up with a good letter in thirty minutes before I carry myself to work...
What to say? What to say?
Posted by: Keith B | July 26, 2008 8:38 AM
Sounds like Collard should contact the local ACLU office. I bet the school will cave quickly if contacted by a lawyer citing harassment of a student. The last thing they want to have to defend their actions in a courtroom.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | July 26, 2008 8:39 AM
I've been laughing for a week since I read that the person who originally brought forth the impeachment is named-
Furbush.
I will send a note to UCF and try to cc Furbush.
this post brought to you by:
.
ChristOCrackers Caution- this product is not intended to be used as a merkin
...
..
.
Posted by: Benajmin Franklin | July 26, 2008 8:42 AM
Dont these people have any conscience or morals? Im not surprised a University would cave in,but those good catholics lying and causing grief to people in the name of jesus just disgust me.
Posted by: clinteas | July 26, 2008 8:44 AM
Mail sent.
Fuckers!!!
Posted by: Steve8282 | July 26, 2008 8:46 AM
You know, I would have so much more respect for them if they had retracted this and said, "Hey, it's okay, you made a mistake. Just don't do it again." You know, turn the other cheek and all that which is preached but never practiced. This is just mean-spirited. Vengeful hatred, even. I hope they know that they are showing everyone just what kind of people Catholics are- vicious and intolerant.
Posted by: Kcanadensis | July 26, 2008 8:50 AM
You'd think that Christians would, as a rule, try harder to follow the supposed tenets of their own faith, but Bill Donohue is a fine example of a bully boy who shows not the least sign of Christian humility, mercy, or kindness. He's basically a thug and professional martyr, constantly bellowing about how oppressed he is. Donohue doesn't emulate his own professed savior and has admitted that he doesn't actually know Jesus. An odd sort of confession, but it's out of his own mouth:
Remember the phony "war against Christmas"? Donohue was particularly noisy in 2005 about how awful nonbelievers were in not respecting the commercial extravaganza in honor of the baby Jesus. He found evidence of this in holiday greetings other than "Merry Christmas." Anyone who said "Happy Holidays" was evidently an evil secularist of the worst stripe. Donohue even went off on President Bush, whom he normally loves, because the official White House Christmas card said "Happy Holidays." Then came this highly revealing episode:
Posted by: Zeno | July 26, 2008 8:53 AM
Well, it looks like another Inquisition and based on the long Church's history of fighting education (sex, Galileo, bible's in English, etc.) I'm not surprised they want to control the education of others if they can. If Bill "the Donkey-Fisting Inquisitor" Donohue (who started a lot of this mess) was as big a man as his fat ass, he would post his own email along PZ's. And to any Catholic who wants to say "look at all the colleges we started" all I have to say to that is that teaching bullshit, is still teaching bullshit.
Chris
Posted by: ChrisKG | July 26, 2008 8:55 AM
Zeno @ No 9:
I would have been more worried about his mental state if he had replied "He's cool with it,we had a chat about it last nite over a few pints".
Posted by: clinteas | July 26, 2008 8:57 AM
Bernard Gui is alive and well, apparently, and running Catholic Campus
MinistriesInquisitions at UCF. Can't somebody there file a complaint against them for abusing the disciplinary process?Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 8:59 AM
Hey PZ - maybe you should invite those two boys to transfer to your school!
(signed) marc
Posted by: marc buhler (phd) | July 26, 2008 9:00 AM
message sent.
Posted by: Tom Levenson | July 26, 2008 9:02 AM
Those religious scum are apparently so immoral that they see nothing wrong in bearing false witness, eg against Collard. It's that lying for Jesus thing again - and the conveniently contrived opportunity to simply absolve themselves of their crimes in the view of a non-existent being by non-confessing (if they recognise their crimes as such at all), ie "confessing" in secret to someone else of dubious morality rather than admitting their fault in public and being forced to make genuine amends.
Posted by: SEF | July 26, 2008 9:07 AM
Just sent my message.
Thanks alot for bringing this to our attention PZ. Hopefully we can make a difference for these two kids. This is utterly despicable. I can't believe they're going after his friend now. I feel like I'm living in medieval times, this is unreal.
Posted by: LisaJ | July 26, 2008 9:09 AM
Did the "Don't taze me bro!" guy get expelled? This is crazy!
Posted by: Doubting Foo | July 26, 2008 9:09 AM
I wish I could be even a little bit surprised that this would happen at a publicly-funded university in Florida. If it weren't in Florida, at least I'd be more surprised.
Tip to UCF students: don't attend Catholic Campus Ministries events. If someone other than yourself does something they don't like, you may be expelled.
I'll be writing an email today, for what it's worth.
Posted by: Mike O'Risal | July 26, 2008 9:17 AM
It truly is amazing how far the religious will sink, and how obsequiously actual State authority will follow them (UCF isn't a private university, afterall). Cook isn't even an atheist; the kid's a devout catholic who wanted to show his friend a communion wafer. How paranoid does that show his fellow parishioners and his priest to be, that they watched him closely enough to notice he didn't immediately eat it, and that they attempted to recover it from him, by force, without even asking him what he was doing? Is it not religion itself which claims the community of believers is one of total trust and the purest love? Is it not religion that claims the relationship between priest and parishioner to be inviolate and closer than that of family itself?
The outrageous and wrong-headed reaction of against this young man has shown how huge and vile these lies truly are. In the mouth of a priest, love becomes fear and trust, hate. Even the simplest act of education and proselytizing becomes a crime when taken from the hands of the cleric, and the flock bears its teeth against its own at his words, without a thought or question.
This disgraceful episode makes the argument that religion is nothing more than a system of control better than I or Dr. Myers or anyone ever could.
Posted by: Julian | July 26, 2008 9:18 AM
dangit. I hate when my brain makes unnecessary 'ofs' invisible. Damn you, residual dyslexia! *shakes fist*
Posted by: Julian | July 26, 2008 9:20 AM
Sent mine too. Kept it short cause I hope he gets so many he can't possibly read them all.
Suggested he Google "Blood Libel" for some historical perspective. A good thing for a University Pres.
Posted by: TomDunlap | July 26, 2008 9:28 AM
Oh shit, they are in trouble! I found a picture of a UCF disciplinary hearing.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 9:28 AM
My favorite comment on the Cook story, specifically about him being impeached by the Student Government:
Posted by: Dave Wisker | July 26, 2008 9:32 AM
Unbelievable. These clowns just don't stop, do they?
Why don't they stop and ask themselves "what would Jesus do" sometime?
Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek?"
Right, I forget. You're only supposed to turn to the bible when it says that you're supposed to hate someone.
Posted by: Athe the False | July 26, 2008 9:36 AM
No mail from me.
This situation is not clear enough to me and I'm not sure it's a good idea. I don't think we would really be helping the two students who are threatened with expulsion, suspension, or probation. We, in fact, might be the problem for them.
Unlike PZ's actions which are all clearly here on his blog, I'm not sure exactly what Cook did. The linked Orlando Sentinel story is saying that:
That doesn't sound good to me. He lied and represented himself as a student government official?
I'm not cool with that, if it's true, sorry.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 9:51 AM
Done
Posted by: thegomezsymbol | July 26, 2008 9:56 AM
Definitely write to the president. And definitely try to remain lucid, brief and polite, as the goal should be to project a sense of rationality (that is our chief weapon).
Model of politeness:
Posted by: Bostonian | July 26, 2008 10:02 AM
Posted by: llewelly | July 26, 2008 10:03 AM
Norman Doering-
Cook is, indeed, in the Senate of the UCF SGA.
I 'm not sure exactly what the charge refers to, probably some misuse in stating he was an officer.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | July 26, 2008 10:03 AM
Hmmm... I like how Bostonian put it. Maybe something like that.
But not today. I need to think about this one.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 10:11 AM
Seems to me the Catholic Campus Ministries group, or any group for that matter, has a right to operate without fear of being harassed. If a student misrepresented himself to bring mischief on an atheist student group, that would likewise be intolerable. A university community should be a place where ideas are freely debated, but people are respected enough to be left alone. Catholic Campus Ministries is right to press the charges.
Posted by: Manlius | July 26, 2008 10:11 AM
Posted by: SEF | July 26, 2008 10:18 AM
sent.
Posted by: CanadianChick | July 26, 2008 10:18 AM
Manlius #31,
You shouldn't be using a computer in your condition. At least wait until the two black eyes go away.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 10:20 AM
SEF wrote:
Not about the cracker. Cook reportedly claimed he swallowed the wafer during the service. He later returned the wafer to church officials ...
It sounds like he might have been disruptive. If asked, he should have returned the cracker and apologized rather than making a scene. Sure, it's partly the fault of the Catholics for getting nutty about a cracker and expecting everyone to honor that. But you probably should honor it during a service, but nowhere else can the Catholics rightly expect that.
The question I'm considering is whether the Catholics are getting special treatment. Would an atheist group, or a Muslim group, or a Scientology group be given the same protection from disruptive people? Then, yea, maybe what they're doing is right.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 10:36 AM
"There's a dead bishop on the landing.
Ooo! We should call the police.
We should call the church.
We should call the church police!
CHURCH POLICE!!!!"
- Salvation Fuzz/Dead Unjugged rabbit sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus
Posted by: szqc | July 26, 2008 10:37 AM
I sent my comments. I even tried to keep it coherent and on point without sounding like the angry aetheist. Somehow, I don't think it will make much of an impact on his decision. I guess it's not "politically correct" to expose the ridiculousness of the beliefs of ridiculous believers. At least it is one more voice against the tide of hate being directed at these two fine young gentlemen.
Posted by: fatherdaddy | July 26, 2008 10:39 AM
Here's what I wrote:
I've been following the recent events involving Webster Cook's removal of the Eucharist from Catholic mass.
I think it's disgusting that the university is actually taking action against not only him, but an acquaintance that didn't even do anything.
A university is supposed to be a bastion of academic enlightenment, not a slave to ancient superstitions. When my children, nieces, nephews, and other other young minds I know are deciding on a college, I will remember UCF's actions in this matter. I would hate to see any impressionable young minds attending a school that bends to the will of obsolete religious authority instead of modern reason.
Please, I ask that you exercise some common sense and drop all disciplinary action against these two men. What Cook did was at best a meaningless gesture, and at worst a lapse of judgment. There is no malicious intent, and no actual harm from his actions. He does not deserve this punishment, and that goes double for Collard. In the year 2008, no one should be subjected to this sort of Dark Age Inquisition.
Thank you for your time,
Jeremy xxxxxx
Posted by: Jeremy | July 26, 2008 10:43 AM
"Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything." this is what you wrapped up your desecration blog with. I presume this quote is the driving force behind this blog entry as well. Can you tell me what you hope to gain by "Question[ing] everything"? It just sounds like a pithy catch-all phrase that your admirers like to take from your blog as wisdom. I guess I am wondering if you are seeking truth or just seeking anything and everything just b'cause? You are an evolutionary biologist. Why is there evolutionary biology? Why is there anything at all? At some point the questions being asked need an answer, not just another question, as you would suggest... you should read "Warranted Christian Belief" or at least get the clif notes on it so you don't completely embarrass yourself with your anti-religious diatribe.
All the best... and yes, I'll be praying for you too.
Posted by: dudge | July 26, 2008 10:45 AM
dudge@39...
Uh, hello? You're vehemently worshiping a fairy tale. Wake up and smell the reality.
It's as ridiculous as someone refusing to admit to their dying day that Santa isn't real. It's pathetic for adults with their capacity for critical thinking to spend their lives swearing allegiance to Harry Potter.
Posted by: Jeremy | July 26, 2008 10:52 AM
@Norman Doering #25
I agree that there is some question as to what really happened, but what does that have to do with his friend who, by all accounts, was nothing more than a bystander?
Posted by: Rob J | July 26, 2008 10:54 AM
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 10:54 AM
PLEASE guys, send an E-mail to UFC's president in support of both these guys! Let's not let those pigs at the catholic league ruin two student's lives.
Posted by: Charlie | July 26, 2008 10:55 AM
Meanwhile, I think the version of events in which it's the Catholic hot-heads who disrupt the service is the more plausible one. It is perfectly normal to return to one's place first with the wafer in some services and therefore quite understandable for some Catholics to expect that to be OK.
NB The reason service rules differ is of course because these crazy people have been making up all their rubbish and ritual all along anyway. It bears no resemblance even to the bible story version.
Posted by: SEF | July 26, 2008 10:56 AM
This is how the Catholic church works. A dead body here, a massacre there, a stupid arbitrary rule here, some pointless crimes against humanity and so on.
Before you know it, their membership is drifting off to other sects or none. The ones who are left are apathetic and disinterested.
Catholism in the US survives due to a de facto policy of "don't ask, don't tell." For one glaring example, the birth rate in Catholic families is identical to the national average at 2 something. Like most sane individuals, most members smile and nod and do what they think is right.
Donohue and his tiny band of catholic trolls and extremists are making ex-catholics and anti-catholics by the thousands at this very moment.
Posted by: raven | July 26, 2008 10:57 AM
Rob J wrote:
Was he? Are you sure? Where is that stated? I don't see much about him at all and I'm not ready to jump to conclusions.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 10:58 AM
I don't understand any reason for him being threatened with expulsion from a PUBLIC university unless he did something to disrupt that university.
Even if he WAS disruptive in a church, what the hell does that have to do with his education? How is the State University beholden to and governed by a religious organization? What's the connection there?
I mean, if I went into a mosque, or a meeting of the local chapter of MENSA, or a Walmart and made an ass of myself, what the hell would that have to do with my right to an education?
Posted by: craig | July 26, 2008 10:59 AM
the myths of bronze-age Levantine goatherds are not good enough. - Emmet Caulfield
I'll take the opportunity to raise a question about this characterisation with those knowledgeable about the history of the Bible - a lot of the myths are set in the bronze age, but surely all the text as it now exists is iron age or later?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | July 26, 2008 11:02 AM
He lied about eating a cracker?!? String him up!
Posted by: Brian W. | July 26, 2008 11:04 AM
According to the Orlando Sentinel:
Alcohol-policy violations because people are offered a sip of wine? That's rather absurd.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 11:10 AM
Uh oh, time for another headline catholic desecration of a cherished insane symbol. How about the rosary? Boy, PZ and all of us can do wonders with that string of beads and its attendent incessant mumbo jumbo ranting. The possibilities of mockery and usage are many and various! Shall we work on this and keep the catholics riled up and frustated at the laughable and contemptible crap they have puked over for so long?
Posted by: Holbach | July 26, 2008 11:13 AM
Yeah, in addition to wishing to a sky fairy, strings of beads can be used for...other things...
Posted by: Jeremy | July 26, 2008 11:18 AM
Letter to Pres. John C. Hitt, University of Central Florida:
Posted by: Hal in Howell MI (not far from Hell, MI) | July 26, 2008 11:19 AM
My email to the President:
Dear Sir,
I write from the UK in support of Benjamin Collard, a student at U.C.F., who is currently the victim of persecution by the Catholic Campus Ministries.
This unfortunate student friend of Webster Cook has become unwittingly embroiled in the farce over 'Crackergate' - the excessive, unfounded, unbelievable reaction of many members of the Catholic community to Cook's failure to consume the metaphorical communion wafer.
To have an innocent student's education curtailed due to the paranoia, bigotry and stupidity of a religious group's unfounded beliefs smacks of the Spanish Inquisition. Such practices should have been relegated to the Dark Ages and should certainly not be allowed to corrupt an educational establishment of the 21st century.
I implore you to cease this ridiculousness and remove the hold on Collard's account.
Posted by: barelyEvolved | July 26, 2008 11:21 AM
Message sent!
Posted by: sun | July 26, 2008 11:22 AM
Julian @ #19:
Are you sure he's a Catholic? I used to think so as well, but he was a guest on Freethought Radio, and merely said he was "raised Catholic". He didn't say what his current religious views are.
Posted by: arensb | July 26, 2008 11:29 AM
"But the impeachement is not based on Cook's taking the wafer. It's based on allegations that he represented himself as a student government official at the service."
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_education_edblog/2008/07/ucf-student-who.html
Posted by: James Goetz | July 26, 2008 11:33 AM
raven #45:
About that birth rate...
I had a catholic girl in a health class that maintained that the church was neutral on issues of birth control.
I don't think it implies anything, just found it amusing.
Posted by: NanuNanu | July 26, 2008 11:44 AM
Message sent. Emphasised that I would do whatever I can towards publicising the issue over here (UK).
Posted by: d'George | July 26, 2008 11:44 AM
Mr. Collard was clearly part of a conspiracy to take free food. There are numerous penalties traditionally associated with this offense, including the consumption of undercooked potatoes and overcooked hamburgers. If tried as a juvenile he could be subjected to noogies, and ridiculed for liking girls.
At least that has been my experience. Then again I avoid social gatherings where the purpose is to eat the flesh of zombies. It's all fun and games until you fail your saving throw vs. insane mob.
What business religious franchises have performing magic rituals at public universities is another matter.
Posted by: mwb | July 26, 2008 11:52 AM
So doing stuff like this isn't disruptive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Donohue
Billy sure is confrontational.
It's also of course not disruptive to harass a couple students and a professor. Both universities have endless time and resources to deal with this stuff, as do the Morris police department. Is any of this considered inciting to riot yet? No one is turning the other cheek, they are retaliating way out of proportion to what happened because an attention whore keeps egging them on. He should be held to be an accessory to any and all death threats.
Posted by: Mena | July 26, 2008 11:54 AM
So they're accusing him of going in and saying something like "by the power invested in me by the student government of UCF, I'm citing you for an alcohol violation for serving wine on University premises, and I'm going to do horrible things to this cracker until you relent"?
OK, so the fuck what? He's an asshole. Kick him off student government, by all means. But even that far-fetched story isn't grounds for expulsion, for him or his friend.
Posted by: NonWonderDog | July 26, 2008 11:57 AM
Alcohol-policy violations because people are offered a sip of wine? That's rather absurd.
Have you read the UCF alcohol policy? Is offering a sip of wine during a religious service permissible under said policy? Section A.2.a. states "Possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages is prohibited by persons younger than 21 years of age." There are no exceptions indicated. You might argue that the policy is absurd (which entails more than simply stating as much), but the complaint seems entirely merited (unless, of course, they carded everyone at the alter, and turned away the young'uns).
Not that Cook's complaint has anything to do with the persecution of him and his friend... where are you going with this, Norm? You seem to be bouncing around in effort to identify mitigating factors on behalf of UCF and the Catholics without doing much to verify or support your statements. If such factors exist, by all means, offer up some evidence for them; I haven't seen any in the accounts I've read.
Posted by: J Myers (no relation) | July 26, 2008 12:04 PM
In practice, they are neutral. If the church kicked out every Catholic for family planning, 80-90% of their members would be gone. No members means no money in the collection plate every week. This would be a recipe for sect suicide.
Posted by: raven | July 26, 2008 12:04 PM
I asked:
No, they would probably not say that was grounds for expulsion.
Yes, the Catholics are probably getting special treatment.
Okay, I'll write about that.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 12:05 PM
Here's mine.
Posted by: The Chemist | July 26, 2008 12:10 PM
"Catholic Magisterium"? Wow, PZ talk about hyperbole. The Catholic Magisterium is the teaching authority of the universal Church (Pope and Bishops). The only agency that challenged Webster and now this other fellow is the Catholic League. The Catholic League is a private lay organization which gets no money from the Church and has no official connection to the Church.
Posted by: Max Verret | July 26, 2008 12:12 PM
Comments or questions should be directed to:
Administrator
Office of the President
Millican Hall 308
P.O. Box 160002
Orlando, FL 32816-0002
Let's get those letters out there!
Posted by: Neural T | July 26, 2008 12:13 PM
Cook sounds like the kind of jerk I don't really want to defend. It sounds like he deserves a slap on the wrist of some kind.
But, I will write that I don't think he should even be threatened with expulsion and I don't think they would do the same for an atheist group.
Posted by: Norman Doering | July 26, 2008 12:25 PM
Well I have just let the President know how his institution looks from this side of the pond: poised to hurtle back to before the Reformation.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | July 26, 2008 12:27 PM
"Could not fire up a steak in Minnesota"? Well PZ the appear is before the U. of Minnesota Board of Regents. As I noted before, on that Board sits two regents named Allen and James. Clyde Allen was Vice-President of Concordia Colllege and James spent 35 yrs. of his life as Pastor of Calvary Lutheran Church and got his Master's from Luther Theological Seminary. I don't think either of them will find your antics amusing.
Posted by: Max Verret | July 26, 2008 12:29 PM
Sent an email, for what it's worth. Just hoping those administrators haven't checked their spines at the door.
Posted by: wright | July 26, 2008 12:34 PM
Mr Verret: You keep writing the same thing over and over again. This is spamming. You've made that same point many times over, so you can stop now. I've had quite enough of the Catholic apologists who are stuck in this rut, and I'd be pleased to make an example of you.
As for Allen and James — I do not assume that because of their religious background that they are a pair of morons who do not respect the principle of academic freedom. You do.
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 26, 2008 12:37 PM
Yeah, a Lutheran minister is going to be real sympathetic. The Catholic church tried to kill Luther and did kill 5-10 million Lutherans during the Reformation wars. Ratzinger just called the Lutheran church fake a few months ago. Always a good way to make friends.
Max is dumb. Lutherans and Catholics have been enemies for 400 years. Lutherans still believe that Catholics are corrupt bastions of idolatry and superstition. Catholic doctrine is that the Lutheran religion is fake, Ratzinger just said it again a few months ago.
Getting a bit desperate here if he thinks a Lutheran is going to give a rat's ass about Catholic extremists. The guy is probably laughing his ass off.
Posted by: raven | July 26, 2008 12:42 PM
Dear President Hitt,
This is in response to reports that Webster Cook is impeached on the student senate and his friend Benjamin Collard is unable to register and is charged with mopery and dopery by the Catholic Campus Ministries.
A university, of all places, should not hold anyone's ideas as above criticism. Neither student discriminated against anyone or intimidated anyone. But now they are being subjected to varying degrees of both for what is essentially a religious disagreement.
Please make an official stand for free speech, and tell the Catholic Campus Ministries to go read Matthew 5:11-12, and stop seeking an official remedy to a perceived ecclesiastical insult. Lead the students of your university to an understanding that the marketplace of ideas needs no regulatory agency.
Thank you,
- George W..
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | July 26, 2008 12:51 PM
Below is what I wrote. I titled the header "You will open the door for discrimination lawsuits". Do not put "blaa blaa about *student names*, it will most likely get ignored. Make a title that will catch attention and make them read the message.
________________________________________________
Dear Mr. Hitt,
This letter is in regard to the actions taken against Benjamin Collard and Webster Cook. I am appalled by the actions of the Catholic League. Their efforts to ruin the lives of two young men is deeply disturbing and I hope that your college will not allow itself to be used in this manner. It is my opinion this is nothing but a publicity stunt and an opportunity to further a religious agenda that is directed at our Nation's educational institutes. Religious Organizations such as the Catholic League do not like freedom and they cannot tolerate criticism. Our country is based on the idea that we are allowed the freedom to criticize, please remember that. An environment which upholds freedom of thought and expression is essential to foster the development of our Nation's youth, please do not allow them to take that away from your college. You are not a religious institute, you are an educational institute. Freedom should be a tenant you hold dear.
It is wrong for any religious institution to ruin the lives of two men over a cracker. If you walk down this path, you open the door for any and all religious organizations to dictate regulations your college must abide by. I know many Hindu in Florida, perhaps they should sue your school and demand you not sell beef or allow it on campus since it is sacrilege in their religion and the act of eating beef deeply offends them. Perhaps you should not even be allowed to discuss the slaughtering of beef, as some find this subject disturbing and an insult to their religion. Perhaps you should not be allowed to use any preserved specimens in biology lab, because they might offend someone's religious beliefs. You should not pick and choose which religions you give in to. If you give in to the Catholic League's demands, you must give in to all demands from all religious group. If you do not do so, this will open the door for many discrimination lawsuits. Your school will spend so much time and money defending yourselves against lawsuits that you will have neither the time nor the money to do what you are supposed to be doing, which is educating people.
Thank you for your time,
Posted by: Rayven Alandria | July 26, 2008 12:54 PM
Should I just rip my UCF diploma up now? How stupid can UCF be?
Posted by: Chris | July 26, 2008 12:54 PM
Done!
President Hitt,
I have recently read of the absurd goings on that have seized your university in the last few weeks. What on earth can you have been thinking?
No religious person has been harmed here (feel free to correct me if I'm missing some key element of the story), on the contrary, at least one of the people you are considering for expulsion has received death threats from the ranks of those now baying for his blood, and the other, appears to have been little more than a bystander.
This sort of story simply reinforces the stereotype that americans are mad with religion, indeed it makes otherwise level headed people like myself wonder just how much of a stereotype it is!
Assuming we can dismiss the stereotype of the rabidly religious american, it is likely that the vast majority of catholics won't care one whit about this issue, but reasoning people, regardless of their religion (or lack of it) will consider expulsion based on the events that have transpired a travesty, and an extreme overreaction.
This incident is being observed, of course you may do as you please, but understand that you tarnish your university, your state and your country by expelling these students for what amount to little more than imaginary crimes.
Regards,
Brian Coughlan
Sweden
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | July 26, 2008 12:57 PM
Thus spake Nick Gotts:
I'm certainly not knowledgeable, but I usually use "bronze age" as a characterisation of the creation stories of the Bible. AFAICT, the use of stone/bronze/iron age is not really considered appropriate outside Europe, where the terms originated. In some places, they went from stone to iron with no bronze age, not to mention the fact that there are a few tribes in South America effectively living in their own little stone age to this day.Biblically, it's clear from (the famous) Judges 1:19 that they had iron even in the Old Testament, but that it was new enough technology for it to be able to thwart God:
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Since the Egyptians didn't have iron, I think it's probably fair to characterise anything at least up to the (fictional) Exodus event, including the creation myth, as "bronze age". That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :o)
AFAICT, the time of Jesus in Palestine is properly characterised as "Roman" rather than iron age. I'll leave it to the historians to correct me and/or enlighten us further.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | July 26, 2008 12:57 PM
raven:
I should have specified that we were talking condoms and I understood her to mean that she thought they were completely neutral as in the church didn't condemn their use. I'm not 100% sure about their policies on other types of birth control but considering their policies concerning condoms it gave me a bit of a double take.
Could be wrong though, and I'd actually be glad if I was, considering how stupid the statement how I understood it was.
Posted by: NanuNanu | July 26, 2008 1:00 PM
Catholics are assholes and morons, I don't care how moderate they think they are.
The only people worse than Catholics are the atheist wimps who think Catholics should be respected. I say this because in another thread some atheists gave me a hard time when I suggested all Catholics should go fuck themselves.
I'm especially interested in ridiculing priests. They're the people who have made Catholic stupidity their career. They make a living from lying to children (when they aren't busy raping them). All priests should be treated with contempt.
Posted by: BobC |