…and this is a 
A horrible story
Category: Evil
Posted on: August 1, 2008 10:05 AM, by PZ Myers
You've probably already heard this one, since it is all over the news: a preacher, Anthony Hopkins, murdered his wife after she caught him sexually abusing their children and stuffed her in a freezer — with the daughter's assistance. This happened four years ago and the children's mother has been kept in the freezer in this house ever since. The pastor of Hopkins church reports that "the children were so respectful, just so easygoing", and that they "loved their dad. They were very close to him." Right. Rape, murder, and incest are just ordinary events in the Abrahamic family tree.
What I find disturbing about the whole story is this. Anthony Hopkins spent all this time since as an itinerant preacher, traveling about and preaching the ‘Holy Word of Jesus Christ’. His daughter moved out of his house, finally, reported what he'd done to the police, the police went into his house and opened the freezer, and then they went off to the church where he was preaching that day. What did they do then?
Police allowed Hopkins to finish his sermon before arresting him.
Wait, what? Was this an example of Christians showing respect, that they allowed a child-raping murderer continue mouthing words of love and redemption in their church, words that clearly meant nothing to this monstrous psychopath? If only he'd crumbled a cracker, perhaps then they would have been less tolerant.
Comments
Posted by: Jonas E | August 1, 2008 10:10 AM
Well, some people have their priorities a bit skewed.
Posted by: LisaJ | August 1, 2008 10:12 AM
You are right. That is just disgusting, and one of the most disturbing aspects of this story. This is incredibly ironic and horrifying when paralelled with the cracker story.
Posted by: Junx | August 1, 2008 10:13 AM
There aren't words to describe that sort of behavior that are not, "evil", "vile" or "hypocritical". This is the sort of story that should horrify even the most stoic of minds.
Posted by: True Bob | August 1, 2008 10:14 AM
Inconceivable!
What a monster, and they let him prattle on! Sickening. If he was a car salesman, would they have let him close a sale first?
Posted by: MH | August 1, 2008 10:16 AM
I actually think the police were right to not make a scene; it's not like he was going anywhere. Whether they would have done the same if he'd been a Muslim preacher is another matter, though.
Posted by: True Bob | August 1, 2008 10:20 AM
WRT to the children*
Butch: You okay?
Marsellus: Nah man, I'm pretty fucking far from "okay".
*Yeah, yeah, won't somebody think of the children.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 10:20 AM
HUH? Why should he be afforded any leeway that someone who was wanted for murder in any other case would not get?
Posted by: mary77 | August 1, 2008 10:20 AM
Besides, the folks might have been armed--and the police could have been outnumbered. Bad situation, all around.
Posted by: Ubi Dubius | August 1, 2008 10:21 AM
As an attorney, it often bothers me when police go out of their way to make a public arrest. The suspect is innocent until proven guilty, but the police want to make the front page. Hours, days, weeks later, the suspect is quietly released - no apology, no public acknowledgement that he's innocent, just "we don't have enough evidence at this time". Is there a need to make an immediate, public arrest when the suspect is committing no further crimes and is unlikely to flee? whether he's having dinner with his family, giving a sermon, or running a meeting, let's wait a few minutes and do it right, I say. This is one case where the police were right to wait. I wish they did that more often.
My gut feeling is that he should be tortured to death by his in-laws without the formality of a trial.
I'm glad we have rule of law in this country.
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 1, 2008 10:22 AM
So, he didn't think it might be a good idea to get rid of the body then...in 4 years.
If he was allowed to finish the sermon, he could have used the time to escape. That was foolish and dangerous of the police.
Posted by: Duvenoy | August 1, 2008 10:23 AM
More than a little strange, this religion thing. I must agree with MH -- why upset the congregation at the moment when you can give them the pukes over their newspaper the next morning.
Beyond that, this is so disgusting that words fail me.
doov
Posted by: Badjuggler | August 1, 2008 10:25 AM
Insert Silence of the Lambs joke here: ______________________
Posted by: AJS | August 1, 2008 10:25 AM
Actually, I'm not entirely surprised by that.If you saw any of what was happening on the eco-warrioring scene in the mid-1990s (Twyford Down, Newbury Bypass, Solsbury Hill, or the ones in my own neck of the woods: Bass's Rec and Nine Ladies) you wouldn't have been able to avoid learning that illegal occupiers cannot be evicted while a minister is delivering a sermon. This quirk was exploited by having successions of people babble nonsense in front of an audience (and thus be indistinguible from real priests) any time a camp was under threat of eviction.
Since US law is based on UK law before the creation of the Metropolitan Police, it's conceivable that a minister can't be arrested while delivering a sermon.
Doesn't make it right, though .....
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | August 1, 2008 10:26 AM
where are all the christobots to remind us how you can't have morality without religion, again?
And, oh, by the way Ubi Dubious... did you forget the part where they found her body in the guy's friggin freezer???
Think about that again, please...
Posted by: Ouchimoo | August 1, 2008 10:27 AM
That's. just. sick!
Posted by: PatrickHenry | August 1, 2008 10:28 AM
Kept his wife's body in the freezer for four years? When I think of the energy expended for the freezer -- the carbon footprint -- I really get mad! That guy has no respect for the planet.
Posted by: Pleco | August 1, 2008 10:28 AM
Yay Mobile, AL police! /sarcasm (my hometown)
Posted by: Virgil | August 1, 2008 10:29 AM
Man, some people must have really big freezers!
Seriously though, it was the Alabama police. What do you expect from the same state that bought us 10 commandment monuments in the state capitol?
Posted by: Pleco | August 1, 2008 10:30 AM
Best quote from article:
"Of Hopkins' preaching ability, Porter said, "he was a bulls-eye prophet. If he told you something, you could pretty much bank on it.""
Posted by: Ubi Dubius | August 1, 2008 10:34 AM
"And, oh, by the way Ubi Dubious... did you forget the part where they found her body in the guy's friggin freezer???
Think about that again, please...
Nope. I didn't forget about that at all. Has there been a trial yet? Are you suggesting we not bother?
Posted by: LordJiro | August 1, 2008 10:34 AM
They should have made the biggest scene possible. Confront the bastard with photos, and show them to anyone who wanted to see in the congregation. Let them see what kind of sick monster their 'Holy man' is.
And as for the 'no morality without God' argument, sadly, I've heard the same people who say that crap defend shit like this. Something like 'Well, just because you only CAN have morality with God, doesn't mean EVERYONE with God has morality'.
Blah. How much do you wanna bet 'God told him' to do it?
Posted by: J | August 1, 2008 10:36 AM
I think the police did the right thing. He wasn't going anywhere, easier for everyone to make the arrest after the sermon. Less intrusive, less of a spectacle, less risk of violence. If police were going to arrest a rock star, should they wait until after the concert or go up on stage during a song?
And, as has been said before in this thread, there is still the presumption of innocence - an important concept.
Having said all this, after the trial I hope the guy gets to rot in jail for the rest of his life.
Posted by: giscindy | August 1, 2008 10:37 AM
If Porter was so suspicious of this guy that he banned him from his church why didn't he mention his suspisions to anyone else? Porter must have thought there was foul play involved yet he sat in silence for years. WTF?
Posted by: Snitzels | August 1, 2008 10:39 AM
I sure hope they make him pay for the childrens' psychiatrists for the rest of their lives. Poor kids... makes me sick to think people like this are out there.
Much as I wish they would've just shot him from the door, Ubi Dubius has a point; once the police start doling out judgement on the spot, the rule of law has broken down and we're all screwed. He's in jail now, and I'm sure the other prisoners will give him all the welcome he deserves.
Posted by: CrypticLife | August 1, 2008 10:39 AM
There are sensible reasons not to arrest the preacher publically in the middle of a sermon. As Ubi mentioned, it's not like the guy's going anywhere at that point. You don't know how the crowd is going to react, and you want the arrest to go as smoothly as possible. The first thing you need to do as a cop is tell the person what they're being arrested for; "You're under arrest for the murder of your wife and the sexual molestation of your children" could create complete havoc. Maybe you could interrupt the sermon, telling the preacher you need to speak to him immediately in private and then arrest him privately. If he'd been a teacher in the middle of class they would have done something like that.
While they could have done it differently, I'm not really all that offended by the way they did do it. It's not like they could execute him Punisher-style anyway.
Posted by: tceisele | August 1, 2008 10:40 AM
The thing that I find most astounding (and incredibly sad) is that *nobody in the whole world seemed to care that his wife had vanished for FOUR YEARS!* No relative or friend ever seriously tried to find her, or if they did must have accepted some lame excuse. Cripes, he was telling people that she had *died during childbirth*, and nobody even asked if she had a putative grave that they could visit, just . . . nothing. The congregations he spoke to, his fellow preachers, any friends *he* might have had, obviously thought of her as a non-person, a producer of babies and cleaner of houses, nothing else. Her vanishing was either a minor family tragedy, on a par with having a dog die, or else an embarassment that they wouldn't discuss. Nobody worth worrying about.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
Posted by: Lynnai | August 1, 2008 10:40 AM
of htem waiting for the sermon to be over I read it as simple job safty, far less likely to incite fury from the parishoners.
Posted by: Jody | August 1, 2008 10:41 AM
Tbat's the insidious part about religion, PZ. They can always look the other way regardless of the transgressions.
All they had to do, once news of Hopkins' disgusting crime came out, was convince themselves that he was not a 'real' or 'proper' christian, and that god would judge him for his crimes.
It's the same with movement conservatism. It cannot fail; it can only be failed.
Posted by: jlm 2 | August 1, 2008 10:42 AM
Andy must have been on vacation.
First clue, the dude is named Anthony Hopkins!
Posted by: Mr Mofet | August 1, 2008 10:44 AM
It puts the wife in the freezer. IT DOES WHAT ITS TOLD
Posted by: karen | August 1, 2008 10:44 AM
The police wouldn't wait for any other type person to finish his business before arresting him. This is just pandering to the woo. Unbelievable.
Well, at least the catholics will be happy. Only real people were harmed in this story. Not a single cracker was even threatened.
Posted by: clinteas | August 1, 2008 10:47 AM
Ok,skipping the Silence of the lambs joke....
First off,this is terrible,the guy is clearly mentally ill or a sociopath or both.
Secondly tho,this does not show that all evangelicals are child-raping murderers,and we should refrain from making that tempting connection.
Is being brainfucked by religious bullshit in your childhood a cause for more violence and antisocial behaviour? Yeah maybe,who knows,but like the guy who cut off the dude's head after stabbing him a million times in a bus in Canada,I think sometimes people are just fucked in the head,religious or not.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | August 1, 2008 10:47 AM
Ubi Dubious and others...
Ok, ok... I see your point, but still, considering the circumstances you don't thin kthe prudent thing to do would be to get this guy in custody as soon as possible?
I guess what I don't know is whether the goal in allowing him to finish was in reverence to his sermon (totally unacceptible), or to avoid making a seen (understandable, as you've made me see here).
So I guess I'll retract my criticizm unless someone can show me where the waiting was done specifically in reverence to the sermon...
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | August 1, 2008 10:50 AM
Oh for the love of...
I meant, of course, in #33, making a "scene"...
Waitress! More coffee, please...
Posted by: JBlilie | August 1, 2008 10:51 AM
Comment from the local DA:
"Part of the mystery here is that, apparently, none of these children were in school" but were being home-schooled, Mobile County District Attorney John Tyson said. "Home schooling, under this situation, removes almost any chances of us catching up with these kinds of things until there is a catastrophe."
Another great argument against home-schooling without VERY strict supervision. I guess Minnesota law requires very close supervision -- unless both parents have college degrees (this is to ensure that the parents are capable of actually teaching the material.) But it wouldn't protect the kids from being taught nonsense or abused.
Who would most like to home-school the kids and keep them out of the public eyes and ears? Some one just like this criminal nut-job. In my opinion, parents planning to home-school should be vetted as thoroughly as school teachers are. Teachers get certified and then a full background check, fingerprints and all.
Posted by: Andre Vienne | August 1, 2008 10:51 AM
Okay. I know I'm a bad person for this, but I laughed.
Posted by: heddle | August 1, 2008 10:54 AM
When reading that I couldn't help think about a scene in Ocean's 11. Or 12. Or 13. Anyway, Elliott Gould was having a reading when Andy Garcia and his muscle come swaggering through the door. He turned to the psychic and said something like "this you couldn't see coming?"
Posted by: baley | August 1, 2008 10:55 AM
IMO They have a somewhat underdeveloped sense of perspective. But thats no surprise, as they have been selected this way really. To be part of that community you must believe that god created the world in 7 days and he had spare time to take the weekend free. He killed unborn babies and newly born as well with the great flood yet he gets touchy if you abort! He makes you suffer but he loves you!
You cannot afford rational thinking and literally believe that as well!
Posted by: Jonathon | August 1, 2008 10:57 AM
So let me get this straight.... a man whose wife's dead body was found in his freezer, whose daughter accuses him of sexual abuse and forcing her to help him with hiding the muder of her mother, was allowed to complete delivery of a sermon before he was arrested and frogmarched out of the church?
Does anyone think that another person, in a similar situation, would be allowed to so much as finish their lunch before the police would sieze them? Why should religious speech be given more respect than any other speech or activity?
I am all for due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc. but when a dead woman's body is found in someone's freezer I think that it is reasonable for the average person to assume that guilt is fairly certain.
I can only hope that the children of this horrible man have access to mental health counseling, which they desperately need. Years and years of abuse, compounded by the murder of their mother, has damaged them beyond what most people could ever experience. My thoughts are with the victims of this evil man.
I also hope that this is a wake-up call for members of the church where this man was "preaching". Just because someone claims to be a "man of God" does not indicate that he's telling the truth. They've lived with a monster among them for a long time, and remained blissfully ignorant of the truth behind the mask.
Posted by: defectiverobot | August 1, 2008 10:58 AM
I have to say that had I been a police officer in that situation, I probably would have waited too, for three reasons: 1) out of respect for the parishoners (I know, I know, but I'm respectful!), 2) because by interrupting the sermon, the parishoners may have made the arrest more difficult than necessary, and most importantly, 3) to protect the safety of the parishoners--who knows what this vile man might have done to protect himself if the police had stormed in SWAT-style.
Posted by: brent | August 1, 2008 10:59 AM
I am not really so bothered by the police waiting to make the arrest. Obviously they felt like they had the situation under control and, like others, I would prefer that cops take this attitude more often. Its often seems the case that they can handle their jobs with a minimal amount of disruption and chaos if they would act a bit less impulsively and use their heads more.
Obviously none of us know the tactical situation here but I doubt very seriously, whatever their religious inclination, that they waited out of some admiration for the guy. I mean, I know we are not so fond of religion here, but try to give people at least a little bit of credit. They knew at that point that the guy was a child abuser and had manipulated his children into helping murder his wife. Are you really suggesting that you think these police officers felt some sort of respect for him?
Posted by: Mark B. from Austin TX | August 1, 2008 11:00 AM
I don't think it's a big deal that the police waited until the end of the sermon. They probably didn't want to deal with crowd control issues in addition to arresting the suspect. Much easier to handcuff him backstage, and escort him out.
Having said that, I hope he spends a good long time in prison, where he will have time to think over what he's done. It's quite likely that he will find himself on the receiving end of the kind of sexual abuse that he dished out to his daughters.
Posted by: Crispy | August 1, 2008 11:02 AM
I think that I have to agree with the minority here and say that the police did the right thing. While I think that the evidence is totally pointing in one direction (he did it), we all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Posted by: Moggie | August 1, 2008 11:03 AM
# 10:
Where does it say in the report that the police weren't in the room with him? For all we know, they may have been within grabbing distance, and may have had the exits covered.
Posted by: Jonathon | August 1, 2008 11:04 AM
Clinteas wrote: "Secondly tho,this does not show that all evangelicals are child-raping murderers,and we should refrain from making that tempting connection."
I agree with you, but I also think that turnabout is fair play. Can you just imagine the reaction if this man were gay? Or Muslim? Or an atheist? Every other member of these groups would be smeared with the same brush as the actual criminal.
No, not all preachers/pastors/priests/ministers/etc. are mudering child rapists. But neither does their "religious service" exempt them from scrutiny. Someone in that congregation knew what was going on. Someone had at least some suspicion that abuse was going on. But perhaps too many people gave the murderer the benefit of the doubt because he's a "preacher".
And didn't anyone notice that the wife went missing? Didn't someone think it strange?
Posted by: tonyx# | August 1, 2008 11:04 AM
i don't know they would have the same considerations if were, i dont know, at my son's birthday party... but i do think the police were thinking more about not making a scene than showing respect for this murderous bastard...
the crime had been commited 4 year ago anyway, he wasnt going to run away, he tought he was safe...
Posted by: Doubting Foo | August 1, 2008 11:06 AM
Don't they let white collar criminals finish their board meetings before arresting them? I don't see any difference. ;-)
Posted by: C R Stamey | August 1, 2008 11:07 AM
What the hell does respect for anyone/anything have to do with the arrest? Please read the charges again. I am from the south, and have seen the way small town law enforcement works. The issue isn't what "you" would have done. The issue is what would the police have done in any other circumstance. IMO, if the man had been in a cult compound or a well-known eccentric who happened to be out and about, the situation would have been handled differently. Standing by is not the attitude of the police I have witnessed. Ever. Southern respect religion is skewed toward religion. Sorry to say.
Posted by: clinteas | August 1, 2008 11:08 AM
@ 39 :
//I also hope that this is a wake-up call for members of the church where this man was "preaching". Just because someone claims to be a "man of God" does not indicate that he's telling the truth. They've lived with a monster among them for a long time, and remained blissfully ignorant of the truth behind the mask.//
Have the exposed sexual or financial deviations of any "preacher" ever deterred the brainwashed from supporting them,or"believing" in them?
Too much to hope this will be a wake-up call of any kind,we will hear a lot about why this guy was never a "true christian" soon,im sure.
Posted by: True Bob | August 1, 2008 11:12 AM
Hm, yeah, innocent until proven guilty. Just the facts. Sorry, I was angered and flew off the handle.
I suppose though, they could (and should) wait for John Q. Carsalesman to finish his sale, as long as he doesn't go for a test drive. Would that guy be a threat to flee? I guess at the end it's the inconsistency, and maybe I've been conditioned to expect the showy bust.
Posted by: zer0 | August 1, 2008 11:12 AM
Further proof that religion is not some magic off switch for being evil, immoral, etc.
Posted by: Platypus | August 1, 2008 11:13 AM
Now, play nice, he has a really good explanation.
What the preacher put into the freezer was just a bunch of lousy, busted up crackers.
And then when a catholic priest was visiting, the guy was getting something out of the fridge and sneezed. The priest said "Bless you!" and the crackers got consecrated in the blessing's blast radius.
And then some time over the course of four years, the broken crackers transubstantiated.
The only flaw in the defense is that it means the son of god was a black woman.
Posted by: rudi | August 1, 2008 11:15 AM
I suspect they delayed the sermon more out of respect for the poor folk in the audience. Folk who, presumably, hang on this guy's everyone word as some sort of shining beacon of the universal morality espoused by Jesus Christ.
Or some such crap.
Posted by: CanadianChick | August 1, 2008 11:16 AM
I don't have a problem with them waiting until he finished his sermon, for many of the reasons the other minority commenters have expressed.
it's not an issue of it being deferential to religion - I think it's just safer/smarter/easier. And more polite, but I'm not sure that is a concern with police arresting a guy like this.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | August 1, 2008 11:16 AM
I am always amazed at how much the police here in the UK like dawn raids, and how often a TV camera crew just happened to be on the scene.
It would be totally cynical of me to think that the police might be doing dawn swoops complete with camera crews just to garner publicity, so I won't.
Mind you having a camera crew along can cause the police problems. My favourite was when they were raiding a flat in Plymouth. One police team broke in through the outside window of a first floor (second floor to you Americans) flat and a second team broke down the front door. The only problem was that the second team had the wrong block of flats and ended up raiding a retired couple still in bed.
Posted by: Capital Dan | August 1, 2008 11:17 AM
Well, he's already given his life to Jesus, so he's just got to issue a couple of good and godly squeaks, and all is forgiven.
And, that will probably come up during sentencing.
Posted by: Bob | August 1, 2008 11:17 AM
A few seconds of reading the comments here and I'm convinced the cops did the right thing by waiting and arresting him in private. Respect for woo has nothing to do with it. Despite finding a body in a freezer, the guy has to be treated as innocent until proven guilty and there's no legal reason to make a show of it, as much as some might enjoy the delicious schadenfreude of calling the guy out as an Old Testament murdering pervert in front of his congregation (I'd pay to see the looks on their faces...)
The other thing is, once you have damning evidence that the guy is guilty as sin, you don't want to screw up the arrest or processing and have the guy get out on a technicality. That means keeping the witnesses to the arrest to a minimum to avoid any legal challenges later. I finished a book on the 30 year hunt for the BTK killer in Wichita and was impressed by the degree to which the police had ensured all their i's were dotted and t's crossed to deliver an airtight case to the prosecutors. You don't want some cowboy cops screwing up an otherwise slam-dunk case against a monster like this.
Save the gloating until after sentencing and all the appeals are over.
Posted by: Jeff Schmidt | August 1, 2008 11:18 AM
It's not giving religion any more respect than any other public arrest situation. The guy wasn't going anywhere. Better to wait until there's less chance for a ruckus. Police wait until a suspect is done with an event all the time before swooping in.
The sad part of this situation is that religion lends cover by bestowing undeserved moral high ground. It shows that high religiosity does not equal high moral standing. The frequency of religious leaders engaging in immoral behavior should make believers question the effectiveness of religion as a moral compass.
Posted by: Mikey M | August 1, 2008 11:19 AM
"All eight were the children of Arletha Hopkins, and Anthony Hopkins fathered six of them, he said."
For all his failings, at least the good Reverend wasn't guilty of the mortal sin of contraception.
Posted by: firemancarl | August 1, 2008 11:19 AM
Why is it that these murdering incest types nearly always turn out to be good xtians?
Posted by: Schmeer | August 1, 2008 11:20 AM
J:
"And, as has been said before in this thread, there is still the presumption of innocence - an important concept.
Having said all this, after the trial I hope the guy gets to rot in jail for the rest of his life."
Ummm... did you even take a breath between those statements?
Consistency: you're doing it wrong, hypocrite.
Posted by: Ricahrd Eis | August 1, 2008 11:21 AM
-Where does it say in the report that the police weren't in the room with him? For all we know, they may have been within grabbing distance, and may have had the exits covered.-
So your in church listening to the sermon, but then your surrounded by armed police, all waiting to make a move...but...don't do anything...hmm, like that's not going to get people jittery.
I believe part of a sermon involves people lining up to take communion? Can you imagine the possibilities for him there?
Ok, this is all speculation, but still...this guy would have to know about the body in the freezer...after 4 years. It's highly improbable that he is not insane.
Posted by: wÒÓ† | August 1, 2008 11:22 AM
(.)(.)
Posted by: Steve | August 1, 2008 11:22 AM
"I actually think the police were right to not make a scene; it's not like he was going anywhere."
I agree. The police were in a VERY uncormfortable situation. They were probably waiting in respect for the congregation. What this man did to his wife and children was pretty horrible and deserves full punishment. It also makes me angry that when this sort of thing happens, people just LOVE to post it all over the internet to perpetuate the typical Meyers stereotype and guilt by assocation of all christians (which this pastor obviously was not).
I also find it disturbing P.Z. Meyers OBVIOUS jubilancy when posting articles like this givin his vitriol hate for true christians.
Posted by: Heinz P | August 1, 2008 11:23 AM
I see no problem with the police waiting to arrest him after the sermon. Why cause more problems and create a potential riot, when you can just wait him out and arrest him without incidence.
Posted by: Steve | August 1, 2008 11:23 AM
"I actually think the police were right to not make a scene; it's not like he was going anywhere."
I agree. The police were in a VERY uncormfortable situation. They were probably waiting in respect for the congregation. What this man did to his wife and children was pretty horrible and deserves full punishment. It also makes me angry that when this sort of thing happens, people just LOVE to post it all over the internet to perpetuate the typical Meyers stereotype and guilt by assocation of all christians (which this pastor obviously was not).
I also find it disturbing P.Z. Meyers OBVIOUS jubilancy when posting articles like this givin his vitriol hate for true christians.
Posted by: raven | August 1, 2008 11:28 AM
If he was a "bulls-eye prophet", why didn't he forsee that the cops were coming and move the body or bury it somewhere?
For that matter, why didn't he predict that fucking the kids and killing his wife wasn't going to be a good idea?
Some people have low criteria for what sort of accuracy a prophet should have.
But at least he didn't toss a cracker in the garbage. He is safe from Donohue, the Catholic league, and the Confraternity of Fascist Catholic Priests.
Posted by: leki | August 1, 2008 11:29 AM
@64
"What this man did to his wife and children was pretty horrible and deserves full punishment"
Dude, I'd say it is a hell of a lot worse than 'pretty horrible'.
As much as you would like to deny this child-raping, murdering sicko the label of 'christian', he was one.
Posted by: Michelle | August 1, 2008 11:30 AM
Brainwashing...
If the police wanted to be respectful to the congregation, they would NOT have waited. They would've walked straight front, turned to the congregation and said:
"This man is going to be arrested for raping his kids and chopping his wife and stuffing her in a freezer. You might wanna rely on someone else for morals."
Then they would've taken the asshole away. And hopefully, the congregation would've chunked over at him bits of crackers with boos.
Posted by: Steve_C | August 1, 2008 11:30 AM
If it had been a fry cook they would of dragged him to the ground and cuffed him while sepping on his neck.
Shut the fuck up Steve. He's one of you.
And it's Myers. Pay attention asshole.
Posted by: Tony P | August 1, 2008 11:32 AM
The body in the freezer bit is odd to say the least. But the involvement of the daughter, that's just plain sick and twisted.
I've seen some pretty bad things in my life but that one is just a little hard to comprehend.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | August 1, 2008 11:32 AM
Yeah, my 2 cents is that they did the right thing waiting.
I have no respect for him or his preachings but I have to say it was a good call to wait until the end of the sermon. Spectacle is not helpful in any way. I am sure they had the place surrounded and were certain he wasn't going anywhere. Storming through the little old ladies with a swat team and making a big show would have done no good.
Posted by: Moggie | August 1, 2008 11:32 AM
Whew, it turns out he wasn't a Christian after all. False alarm. Thanks for clearing that up for us, Steve. How well do you know the guy? How does he take his porridge?
Posted by: gillt | August 1, 2008 11:34 AM
Blessed Mary, Religion does not get a free pass. If the law is going to be this respectful to the prime suspect in a homicide/molestation case then it needs to be respectful across the board. The pastor is in customer service, the parishioners are his customers, and the cops let him finish his shift. I'm sure we can think of plenty of scenarios where this behavior would seem absurd: nail salon, maid service, flower shop, Taco Bell. Why the knee-jerk acquiescence to religion every single time?
Posted by: John | August 1, 2008 11:35 AM
I was reminded of a scene from a movie a quarter century ago -- no, not "Silence of the Lambs" but Mel Brooke's "To Be or Not To Be" remake. In the scene, the actor has just completed his second rendition of the Shakespeare soliloquy, and the young man has for the second time gotten up and walked out on him. Meanwhile, Germany has just attacked Poland.
The actor is moaning and groaning about being stabbed in the back, as he enters the Green room. His wife is agreeing, "Yeah, we hate him. The entire world hates him." And the actor answers, "Well, they should! He walked out on me again!" He's shortly corrected: "It's war!"
I came to this blog and saw the header, "A horrible story." The category was a single word, "Evil." The blog began, "You've probably already heard this one, since it is all over the news." Meanwhile, I had just come from reading various stories about biodefense researcher Bruce Ivins of the Ft. Detrick labs. He has just committed suicide, and was about to be indicted for the anthrax attacks of 2001.
Okay, I don't want to trivialize the murder of this blog. It's just that I was caught by surprise.
Posted by: Poor Wandering One | August 1, 2008 11:35 AM
I'm with the police on this one. You have a person strongely suspected of at least two violent crimes, murder and rape, in a room filled with civilians. Had Mr. Hopkins been armed an arrest during an emotionally charged sermon could have gone very very badly. Far better to wait for the emotional lull at the end of the sermon and have a couple of people in suits calmly walk up and ask to speak to the preacher for a moment.
'course I'd have the exits covered by uniformed police and have aid cars and swat on alert. Remember at that point they had what MAY have been a murdered body in a freezer and one persons statement that Mr Hopkins was involved. Just off the top of my head I can think of 2-3 ways that Mr. Hopkins could have nothing to do with any of this. Frankly the police appear to have delt with what could have been a very touchy arrest with skill.
Posted by: J | August 1, 2008 11:36 AM
Schmeer: You seem confused.
The man has the right to a fair trial, and the right to be treated as if innocent until he is found guilty.
At the same time, I happen to be convinced that he actually did these hoorible acts, and I hope that he is punished.
There is no contradiction here. I'm glad that the people in charge of the justice system don't think the way you apparently do.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | August 1, 2008 11:37 AM
Why is sodomy still on the books?
Posted by: Scott M | August 1, 2008 11:37 AM
The point of the police's efforts was to get the guy. With as little fuss and potential trouble as possible...either from Hopkins himself or from his parishoners who might not react too well to cops cuffing the man at his podium. Sorry, PZ, but I'm with the cops on this one. Having worked security, I can tell you from experience that discretion is usually more efficient and less risky to everyone involved.
I'm sure the congregants were properly horrified when they learned the truth.
Posted by: PZ Myers | August 1, 2008 11:37 AM
"OBVIOUS jubilancy"? What the hell is wrong with you?
Posted by: C R Stamey | August 1, 2008 11:38 AM
I think PZ's "jubilancy" stems from the imposition of religion into the lives of others. Then there are the double standards and hypocritical behavior of said "true christians". That and the fact they claim the moral high ground based on belief in ancient myth rather than admitting all people have a moral compass.
BTW, what constitutes a "true" Christian? By Christianity's own teaching, the minister can ask forgiveness and god will forgive him and allow him in heaven. So obviously your god would consider him a true christian. Or did St. Peter pass you the keys to the kingdom?
Posted by: Alverant | August 1, 2008 11:39 AM
Maybe I've seen too much Law & Order where the detectives arrest some guy/gal in the middle of a board meeting or whatever, but they should have arrested him on the spot. It was a heinous crime and every second they waited was another chance for him to flee. Unless churches don't have back doors, there was the possibility to escape.
A preacher for any other faith would not have received the same courtesy.
Posted by: Joe Blough | August 1, 2008 11:41 AM
Insert Silence of the Lambs joke here: ______________________
He ate her liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. ;-)
Posted by: C R Stamey | August 1, 2008 11:42 AM
Notice "jubilancy" (yeah, right) is in quotations, and I did not mean to speak for PZ or say that he took glee in any of this. Just my take on things. And please refer to previous threads. He took a stand against religious scare tactics and was harassed.
Posted by: drjimmy | August 1, 2008 11:44 AM
I don't see a problem with the police having waited.
This isn't the same as arresting a car salesman on the lot or a fry cook at the grill. Members of a church behave like a community. It seems to me that a congregation would be likely to try to defend Hopkins (probably verbally, but potentially physically) if he were to be arrested during his sermon. The patrons of a diner or the customers at a car dealership would be far more likely to watch passively as the arrest took place.
Also (and I apologize if somebody has already mentioned this) children tend to be in attendance during worship services. Perhaps the police were trying, in part at least, to avoid a confrontational scene in front of children.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 11:44 AM
Um humm. Ok steve.
Posted by: SteveM | August 1, 2008 11:44 AM
If police were going to arrest a rock star, should they wait until after the concert or go up on stage during a song?
Of course they wouldn't wait. Look what happened when they waited for the Blues Brothers to finish: they escaped through a trap door in the stage. :-)
But seriously, would they have waited for a college professor to finish a lecture? I doubt it. Regardless of whether you think the police did the right thing to wait, the point is they only did it for a preacher and would not have waited for a similar secular event.
Posted by: uncle frogy | August 1, 2008 11:45 AM
I do not know any other details then what I have read in the links provided about this particular story.
If he had gotten away while he was allowed to finish his sermon that would have been pretty bad but he was placed into custody so it worked out OK.
The thing that bothers me the most about this story is the whole incest-sexual abuse thing. Those who have been abused often become abusers themselves or at the least have troubled sex lives. There is also part of sexual abuse-incest that is about power, powerlessness along with shame and guilt all very negative for self image for all parties involved. All of that needs and craves isolation and secrecy to continue, to perpetuate (fear, shame and guilt part of the cause and the result)
How did this father come to this end I do not want to know the details not because I do not care but because I find that more information personally depressing.
that home schooling contributed to th