…and this is a 
Be afraid
Category:
Posted on: August 30, 2008 7:26 PM, by PZ Myers
Everyone must read this article about ‘Joel's Army’ and be afraid. It's a movement by radical Dominionists to build an informal paramilitary organization (at this time, it seems to be more attitude than organization) to prepare to fight to impose a kind of Christian fascism on the world. It may be a group small in number (but not that small, I fear), but they have a lot of fanaticism and lunacy to amplify their power.
Todd Bentley has a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors. Since April 3, the 32-year-old, heavily tattooed, body-pierced, shaved-head Canadian preacher has been leading a continuous "supernatural healing revival" in central Florida. To contain the 10,000-plus crowds flocking from around the globe, Bentley has rented baseball stadiums, arenas and airport hangars at a cost of up to $15,000 a day. Many in attendance are church pastors themselves who believe Bentley to be a prophet and don't bat an eye when he tells them he's seen King David and spoken with the Apostle Paul in heaven. "He was looking very Jewish," Bentley notes.
Tattooed across his sternum are military dog tags that read "Joel's Army." They're evidence of Bentley's generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that's gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers.
"An end-time army has one common purpose -- to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion," Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. "The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel's Army. ... Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God's kingdom on earth."
These people are insane. They're fed on a diet of lies and encouraged to believe that violence will be the answer, and reason is to be rejected.
The anti-intellectualism is overt. They're actually proud of their contempt for learning; the article discusses the influence of a Canadian (errm, what is it with all the mild-mannered Canadians in this outfit?) Pentecostalist, William Branham.
Michael Barkun, a leading scholar of radical religion, notes that in 1958, Branham began teaching "Serpent Seed" doctrine, the belief that Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain and his descendants. "Through Cain came all the smart, educated people down to the antediluvian flood -- the intellectuals, bible colleges," Branham wrote in the kind of anti-mainstream religion, anti-intellectual spirit that pervades the Joel's Army movement to this day. "They know all their creeds but know nothing about God."
I'm rather offended to be lumped in with bible colleges, but compared to Joel's Army, the bible colleges actually are beacons of rationality. And if you think that's bad, an insider, Ernie Gruen, has revealed some of their other doctrines…which sound vaguely familiar.
According to Gruen's report, students at the school were taught that they were a "super-race" of the "elected seed" of all the best bloodlines of all generations -- foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the "end-time Omega generation."
Though he'd once promoted these doctrines himself, Gruen became convinced that the movement was turning into an end-times cult, marked by what he summarized as "spiritual threats, fears, and warnings of death," "warning followers to beware of other Christians" and exhibiting "a 'super-race' mentality toward the training of their children."
Let's hope this is a fringe cult that will fade away, rather than rising to greater power. Let's hope. But … Sarah Palin's home church is dominionist, with connections to Joel's Army.
Afraid yet?
Comments
Posted by: Chris Swanson | August 30, 2008 7:31 PM
Afraid, yes, and vaguely nauseated. :( I console myself by believing these are the final death throes of religion before it finally leaves the human mind.
Posted by: El Herring | August 30, 2008 7:34 PM
Religion is killing America.
And where America goes, we all usually follow.
Posted by: ZacharySmith | August 30, 2008 7:38 PM
And I thought Ben Stein said it was science that kills and that Darwinism lead to "super race" mentality.
Ben, care to comment?
Ben, you there?
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | August 30, 2008 7:41 PM
Lives wasted on insane bullshit.
Posted by: Doug | August 30, 2008 7:41 PM
Too bad he missed the part of the Bible which bans marring of the flesh as in tattoos. The sad thing is in Minneapolis the police are raiding the homes of peaceful people watching movies and sharing food before their planned peaceful protests of the GOP convention. But cult members bent on wrecking violent havoc in America with assault rifles and home made bombs are given tax exempt status and protected under a twisted view of the First Amendment.
Posted by: The Science Pundit | August 30, 2008 7:41 PM
The whole "elected seed" is total statistical bullshit! If you go back enough generations (which is less than biblical times) the seeds all mix.
These people are fucking crazy!!!
Posted by: Lee Picton | August 30, 2008 7:43 PM
Oh, my. And I thought I had heard of most of the whackjob groups - silly me. Why, oh why, won't America wake up?
Posted by: Kel | August 30, 2008 7:45 PM
Well that ended my high which I got from watching The Colbert Report. How sobering.
Posted by: JStein | August 30, 2008 7:50 PM
Now this, this is really scary.
Posted by: raven | August 30, 2008 7:52 PM
The only rapture monkeys I've ever dealt with have been online. There must be some on the WC but they aren't common and don't seem to live around here.
The ones online universally seem to be dumb, uneducated, and mostly of dubious sanity. It really takes someone miserable to hope that god solves their problems by destroying the earth and killing 6.7 billion people.
Joe's Army sounds like a Peoples Temple-Guyana, Heavens Gate, Branch Davidians, FLDS, or Al Qaeda in the making. Wonder what the body count from this cult will be?
Posted by: The Chemist | August 30, 2008 7:55 PM
It does seem attitude more than anything. I would argue that most whacko religious nutjobs already have their fingers enough in the mainstream in this country that they wouldn't feel the need to associate with these folks.
Besides, so what if she's a Dominionist? OBAMA MIGHT BE A MUSLIM!!11!1!! Let's not lose sight of what's important.
Posted by: TSC | August 30, 2008 7:57 PM
Bob Mathews all over again. Fuck, I thought those hick tards who burned pictures of Heath Ledger were stupid enough. Jesus Fucking Christ. Tardensity levels are on red alert. Teh stupid just broiled a casserole of teh dumb.
Posted by: RamblinDude | August 30, 2008 7:57 PM
These are the people who shout the loudest, "We ain't descended from no apes!"
Posted by: MikeG | August 30, 2008 8:01 PM
...While they thump their chests and hoot.
Scary indeed.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 8:03 PM
There are enough natural disasters, such as hurricane Gustav now wreaking havoc in the Gulf of Mexico, tornadoes, eathquakes and other diasters of natural origin, without having to endure dangerous movements perpetrated by deranged religious madmen. We have no control over what nature unleashes on us, but when deranged humans cause suffering and unrest by their insane ideaologies, then it encumbent upon us to use as much restraint to prevent them from running amuck and directing and demeaning our society. These deranged morons have to be constrained in any manner necessary to prevent our sane society from collapse. I can endure a natural disaster because I have no control of it's form and action, but I'll not tolerate religious cretins bent on mayhem with their "godly" insanity. They may fade away as suggested, but may also reappear in a more pernicious form. Perhaps an "intelligent designed" tornado sweep them up with the rapture!
Posted by: Michael X | August 30, 2008 8:04 PM
Aw hell. My father was telling me about how amazing this Bentley guy was just last month. Even though my dad is filing for bankruptcy, can you guess what he's saving up money for? A plane ticket. To Central Florida. Of course, he's going to finish his tapes he purchased from T.D. Jakes first.
It's things like this that make family reunions difficult.
Posted by: Ichthyic | August 30, 2008 8:07 PM
from the KOS article:
Interesting.
anyone know just how much of a connection there is between the "Destiny Church" in New Zealand and this wacky "Joel's Army"?
Posted by: Kryth | August 30, 2008 8:09 PM
Freaking sad. I can never understand how people can be so stupid. How do people go so wrong in life? Seriously, these people are robbed of having a real life. Freaking sad wacko.
"They're actually proud of their contempt for learning" Too bad that doesn't keep them from using machine guns, bazookas, and nukes. Technology and education are bad unless they help you kill the enemy. Hypocritical fucktards.
Posted by: LisaJ | August 30, 2008 8:09 PM
Yes, I am afraid. This is incredibly disturbing.
Posted by: speedwell | August 30, 2008 8:11 PM
Let me know when you intend to be glad that a few of us are stone cold atheist libertarians who can shoot straight and who teach our children science and atheism at home because the schools won't. Until then, I'll just shut up about it.
Posted by: Ichthyic | August 30, 2008 8:12 PM
in a related, linked KOS story, further linkage between xian fundies and cults are explored:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/15587/1892/116/515505
It has been interesting watching the development and investigation of various xian churches as what I always felt they are:
cult groups.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | August 30, 2008 8:18 PM
Yes, I'm afraid we may be witnessing the perfect storm or storms brewing all at once on many fronts. I am posting this again sorry if no one is interested in this, I promise not to post this again but I think the shit is going to hit the fan and I sure hope I'm wrong. Looks like the vultures are already circling.
OT special request
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4468#comments_top
[-] Prof. Goose on August 30, 2008 - 11:55am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
We hope that you will help us spread around this coverage of Gustav to every website and friend that you know. We do not ask you this out of ego, but out of a chance to educate as many people as we can.
Gustav could be another key event in the advent of peak oil. The more people who can understand the tenuous balance between supply and demand, and what an outage like this means to that balance, the better they might be able to understand our situation.
If you think Christians are a problem and a threat to civilized democracies and therefore science, check this out.
[-] ptoemmes on August 30, 2008 - 11:13am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
Just an FYI that my son and others he knows received this email apparently from a list he forgot he was on (long story). I did ask him to verify that it was not SPAM and he claims it is not.
Actual email had fancy BW logos, etc on it.
FWIW,
Pete
Security for Hurricane Gustav
Blackwater is compiling a list of qualified security personnel for possible deployment into areas affected by Hurricane Gustav.
Applicants must meet all items listed under the respective Officer posting and be US citizens. Contract length is TBD.
Law Enforcement Officers (all criteria must apply)
1. Current sworn [may be full time, part time or reserve]
2. With arrest powers
3. Armed status (must indicate Armed and/or Semi Auto. Revolver only not accepted) expiration must be greater than 60 days out
4. Departmental credentials (not just a badge)
Armed Security Officers (all criteria must apply)
Only from the following states: OR, WA, CA, NV, NM, AZ, TX, FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, MD, IL, OK
1. Current/active/licensed/registered armed security officer
2. All training verification [unarmed and armed certificates of completion]
3. Current state issued face card indicting armed status [expiration must be greater than 60 days out]
Applicants will be required to provide an electronic copy of the above required credentials/documents, recent photo within the last six months with response to this AD prior to consideration for deployment.
Personnel who meet the above qualifications and are interested, please send resumes and files to: 25505@blackwaterusa2.hrmdirect.com
Posted by: A bstruse | August 30, 2008 8:19 PM
Do they have child brides? Because I don't join groups unless they have child brides.
Posted by: Bee | August 30, 2008 8:20 PM
Looks like Bentley's managed to scare even the fundiest of the fundy leaders lately - godly dirt, dissent,and delusion all mixed in the comments following the article.
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2008/08/15/todd-bentley-b-c-bad-boy-stirring-up-a-faith-healing-storm.aspx
Posted by: Paul Burnett | August 30, 2008 8:20 PM
I've been saying for years that there will not be an election held this coming November, because of a "September Surprise" (or an "October Surprise") which will cause the Bush regime to cancel public gatherings and impose martial law (among many other things). McCain knows about this and nominated Palin just to distract the media and the public as the dominionists and reconstructionists ready their home-schooled shock troops for their fundagelical rebellion.
Anybody remember the name "Nehemiah Scudder"?* Sounds like Todd Bentley comes close.
* See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94%22
Posted by: CalGeorge | August 30, 2008 8:24 PM
From some of Pastor Mike's sermons, sounds like they are anti-Semitic.
Posted by: likestryavoltage | August 30, 2008 8:27 PM
Branham wasn't Canadian - he was born in Kentucky. I was raised in the cult, known by followers as "The Message", that sprung out of his teachings. He was "God's final voice to the final age" and all that. Took me years to recover from that good old fashioned brainwashing.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 8:29 PM
I just watched several of the videos of Todd Bentley on YouTube; a few minutes for each clip was all I could stomach. Lisa, this is beyond disturbing. This is only a fragment of what can happen if you had been still embracing religion. There are a lot of unsound minds out there who no doubt will be attracted to this demonic horde.
Posted by: genesgalore | August 30, 2008 8:29 PM
with six billion plus on the planet and soon to be 9, these guys are chump change.
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | August 30, 2008 8:30 PM
Makes me nostalgic for those Heaven's Gate nutjobs- at least THOSE freaks had the decency to leave my secular ass out of their eschatological fantasy!
Posted by: woody, tokin librul | August 30, 2008 8:32 PM
Wonder what the body count from this cult will be?
As long as the only people they kill or injure are themselves or each other, I don't really care.
Of course, they spill over, and you get things like Oklahoma City's Murrah Bldg. bombing, and the subsequent cover-up that left the radical, violent, cult-xian haven of Elohim City, out on the Arky/Okie line in tact...that's where McVeigh was heading when he was happenstantially stopped...
Posted by: Kobra | August 30, 2008 8:34 PM
Dear God,
If you exist, please rapture away all of your insane followers.
Thank you,
Nonbeliever
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 8:37 PM
I'm anti-gun, but if this kind of shit ever happens and someone wants to kill me for being an atheist, I will happily be a Rifle-Toting Rationalist/AK-47-Toting Atheist/Bow-Wielding Bright/Pistol-Toting Positivist and pick off any fundies that try to kill me or another atheist.
At least, welcome to religion's final death throes, folks.
Posted by: genesgalore | August 30, 2008 8:42 PM
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 8:37 PM ... depends on where you live hun. if you live in the country guns are like shovels. if you live in the city, they are way too dangerous to have.
Posted by: alcari | August 30, 2008 8:42 PM
If we're lucky, they'll just kill themselves, without shooting and/or blowing up any innocent bystanders. I'm putting good money on 2012, that is when the rapture/end of the world/whatever is coming right?
If we're really lucky, they'll hurry and do it before more idiots gravitate towards them.
Best thing we can do is NOT give these people any atention. The more newspaper articles and interviews there are, the more succes they'll have.
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 8:44 PM
Yeah, there's logistical problems with guns.
The point is, if these people genuinely start acting on their batshit urges , what's going to happen?
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 8:46 PM
Paul Burnett @ 25
You are joking of course.
Posted by: KarenC | August 30, 2008 8:46 PM
Aw, looks like he's recently fallen from grace. He recently agreed to step down from his Fresh Fire ministries because he had entered into an "unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff".
http://www.freshfire.ca/
More of the same...
Posted by: craig | August 30, 2008 8:49 PM
Afraid, yes, and vaguely nauseated. :( I console myself by believing these are the final death throes of religion before it finally leaves the human mind.
I don't think so. The vast majority of people do not understand the technology we have today, they don't understand science, they don't understand much of anything.
When people don't understand things, most of them fear it and turn to superstition. In the next 100 years, technological and scientific advances are going to make 2008 look like the stone age.
It seems to me that the trend is towards MORE superstition and generally illogical thought. UFOs, New-Age woo, Faces on Mars, people killing themselves because of a comet...
100 years from now, perhaps 1 percent of the population will understand the technology. Maybe 10 to 20 percent won't really understand it, but will generally accept it and not worry to much about it.
The rest, hundreds of millions, will fear it, worship it, think it came from god or gods, think it IS a god, or at the very least will fear it enough to be able to be completely controlled.
People will be hating each other over, fighting each other over, killing each other over their fear of and misunderstanding of science and technology. There will be massive cults worshipping either the technologies or the gods they image created them.
Posted by: anaglyph | August 30, 2008 8:49 PM
@genesgalore: >>with six billion plus on the planet and soon to be 9, these guys are chump change.
Yeah, chump change with weapons. And murderous rage. And limited intelligence. And a Biblical agenda. A lot of damage has been done in the past with those kinds of ingredients.
Posted by: genesgalore | August 30, 2008 8:51 PM
let me rephrase that:..Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 8:37 PM ... depends on where you live hun. if you live in the country guns are like shovels. if you live in the city, they are way too dangerous to have and you probably don't own a shovel.
Posted by: Norman Doering | August 30, 2008 8:52 PM
Chris Swanson wrote:
Alas, that seems to be an irrational and faith based belief. Do you have any evidence of it?
Joseph McCabe thought when he wrote, in "Is The Position Of Atheism Growing Stronger": "That the growth is such that if freedom is again generally secured in the next 10 years we may justly expect Atheists to be more numerous than genuine Christians in 20 years." That was almost seventy years ago and it never happened.
I've got some Joseph McCabe links in this post:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/08/consequences-of-belief.html
Posted by: Kobra | August 30, 2008 8:52 PM
I've had to readjust my spectrum of lunacy a bit:
http://www.kobrascorner.com/etc/joelsarmy.png
Posted by: Joe Cracker | August 30, 2008 8:54 PM
Some Holy Shit is about to hit the fan !!!
Posted by: grinch | August 30, 2008 8:55 PM
Well our bikie mate Todd has had a serious fall from grace.
Wonder what kind of dent that will put in Joel's army.
Posted by: rich (richmanwisco) | August 30, 2008 8:57 PM
Disturbing on many levels.
Did this info not surface during vetting? If not, why? More chilling: what if it did surface? How would McCain knowingly allow this?
How will the MSM handle this? Especially with Gustav dominating the cycle? There's a good chance all of this is quietly ignored. Is this why McCain would delay the convention?
My prediction: Palin is replaced before the end of September.
Posted by: genesgalore | August 30, 2008 8:57 PM
Posted by: anaglyph | August 30, 2008 8:49 PM .. no doubt bud. i sure wouldn't want to tangle with china. talk about an asswhipping.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 9:00 PM
Kobra @ 43
That's better. You had me a little concerned at # 32.
Posted by: craig | August 30, 2008 9:00 PM
"The only rapture monkeys I've ever dealt with have been online. "
A couple of years ago I had what looked like a yard sale, but I was giving away books - my book-selling business. Free books. Crowds of people.
An older couple came up, straight from church, wearing flag pins and red/white/blue ribbons and all kinds of flair, and with brain-dead smiles on their faces asked if I had any "Left Behind" books.
Creepy. Superstitious people have nightmares about coming face to face with werewolves, vampires, demons. I had that feeling to a small degree, that chill running down your spine experience, coming face to face with these people.
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 9:01 PM
Kobra, why must you make my brain threaten to asplode? To see Christians and creationists on the relatively sane end of that spectrum (at least atheists are at the top, agnostics only slightly lower) makes my head hurt. A lot.
Posted by: Wowbagger | August 30, 2008 9:03 PM
In the correct thread this time...
If we're really lucky there'll be some sort of power struggle with a resultant schism and the subsequent sects will do their darndest to wipe each other out before they bother anyone else. The thing I've found with religious believers is that many of them are more concerned about other groups with minor variations on the the belief structure than they are true unbelievers.
One place I worked at I used to talk religion with a Greek Orthodox and a Romanian Baptist; they spent more time arguing with each other over whose version of ooga-booga was the more valid than they did trying to convince me atheism was wrong.
Posted by: craig | August 30, 2008 9:04 PM
"Did this info not surface during vetting?"
Why the hell do you think he chose her? They saw the campaign failing and so they picked a raving lunatic fundie. And there's a decent chance it will work.
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | August 30, 2008 9:04 PM
Hopefully, the fundies will form a circular firing-squad. Here is another group of god-botherers' take on "Joel's Army":
http://www.discernment-ministries.org/JoelsArmy1.htm
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 9:05 PM
Katherine @ 50
Yes, I sort of find it demeaning to be in such close company with the religionists; they should have been one shade above Joel's army. Leach that color down, Kobra!
Posted by: mayhempix | August 30, 2008 9:09 PM
"... Branham began teaching "Serpent Seed" doctrine, the belief that Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain and his descendants. "Through Cain came all the smart, educated people down to the antediluvian flood --"
Reminds me of the Khmer Rouge who believed they could purify their country by killing all the intellectuals. The anti-intellectualsim celebrated by the right in the US feeds into this insanity.
Posted by: mayhempix | August 30, 2008 9:13 PM
And now it appears that GOP VP candidate Sarah Palin is a member of a church with direct links to Joel's Army...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213
"...Mike Rose, pastor of Juneau Christian Center (Palin's church), is noted to be connected with the "Third Wave Movement"--a movement in neopente dominionist circles that is the major theological home of "Joel's Army". In fact, he's quite closely connected with Rodney Howard-Browne, a major (in fact, for some years, the major promoter) of "Third Wave" neopente dominionism, and actively promotes this insanity in his church..."
Posted by: afarensis | August 30, 2008 9:13 PM
Small world, that's the guy Dembski went to see!
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 9:13 PM
I'm an atheist. To be lumped in with the fundie retards is insulting.
Kobra, change that chart.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 9:15 PM
Chris Swanson @ # 1, and Norman Doering @ 42
All supposition and so incorrect that religion would be in it's death throes. We will always have religion as long as the majority of the population irrationally embrace it. And we will always have atheists as long as the rational minority continues to counteract that insane majority.
Posted by: ihateaphids | August 30, 2008 9:23 PM
Check out Brian Wood's DMZ comic. It's a terrifyingly realistic plausible-future comic series about a "redneck" militia-army takeover of most of the US excepting holdouts in the northeast. The comic is not necessarily focused on the militia aspect, but it's there, scary, possible, stuff.
These guys should not be ignored.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 9:23 PM
Katherine @ 58
I suggest a new chart which I think we would like and eagerly endorse, one which will totally eliminate the "undesirables". A chart showing ATHEISTS at the top, and Agnostics at the bottom! Of course, if we really want to be truly selective, a chart showing the word ATHEIST from top to bottom with no other designation! How's that?
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 9:25 PM
Holbach @61
Man, I think Kobra just needs a longer chart. Say, 200 pixels wide by 10000000000000000000000000 pixels long.
Posted by: mayhempix | August 30, 2008 9:27 PM
- Posted by: The Chemist | August 30, 2008 7:55 PM
- "so what if she's a Dominionist? OBAMA MIGHT BE A MUSLIM!!11!1!! Let's not lose sight of what's important."
There is a big difference between alleged and actual associations. In Obama's case it was a demonstrably false smear. This is not a smear of Palin. If she were to to leave her church and/or renounce it, then she would deserve the benefit of the doubt. I hope she is questioned about it and has to explain her position and beliefs.
Posted by: Robert Madewell | August 30, 2008 9:40 PM
I thought Bentley stepped down as evangelist because he had an "inappropriate emotional relationship" with a woman on his staff.
Posted by: Gordon | August 30, 2008 9:40 PM
Check out Todd Bentley's website http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=1 and note that as of August 15th he stepped down from the board of directors and his fall 'supernatural training centre' has been cancelled. Apparently he had entered into an 'unhealthy' relationship with a female staff member. Of course the Bibbbble is their guide, except when it doesn't suit their hormones.
These people are so completely fucked-up it just amazes me that anyone pays any attention to them.
Posted by: Kobra | August 30, 2008 9:40 PM
@pretty much everyone:
Look, the only reason the religious nuts are anywhere near the atheists and agnostics on that chart is because of how fucking insane the JA nutters are. The reason they're that close is to illustrate how insane they are.
Take the Joel's Army morons out of the equation, and it looks like this:
http://www.kobrascorner.com/etc/spectrumoflunacy2.png
Posted by: Colugo | August 30, 2008 9:49 PM
"a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors."
He's so good at it that he must have healed the cancer of a fellow Christian pastor all the way in Australia! Praise God!
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&nolr=1&q=Guglielmucci&btnG=Search
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | August 30, 2008 9:49 PM
According to Gruen's report, students at the school were taught that they were a "super-race" of the "elected seed" of all the best bloodlines of all generations -- foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the "end-time Omega generation."
I wonder if the Bene Gesserit are involved in this project... maybe it's time to brush up on my crysknife fighting skills.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | August 30, 2008 9:54 PM
I just watched a You Tube vid in which it is stated that Todd Bentley takes out of body trips to, amongst other places, Australia.
Apart from the the fact he's breaking the law by not obtaining a visa, I have shares in Qantas and think the fucker should stop evading fares and buy a ticket like everyone else.
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 9:55 PM
Kobra:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2l9tvzk&s=4
FTFY (sorry for the bad picture quality).
Posted by: atg | August 30, 2008 10:04 PM
I was thinking the same thing as mayhempix (post #55). This
is the same kind of insanity that led to the Khmer Rouge executing Cambodians for wearing glasses. After all, only an intellectual would need to wear glasses.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 10:04 PM
Kobra @ 66
Really, you should move the agnostics closer to the christians, for after all they are more doubtful that a god exists, whereas we atheists know that a god does not exist. They aren't sure whether to eat the cake; I'll gobble it down in a flash!
Posted by: The Chemist | August 30, 2008 10:06 PM
@mayhempix,
I was merely lampooning the distraction strategy that I have no doubt will be employed by the McCain camp.
That said, and I don't think it can be said enough, even if Obama's case were true, so what?
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 10:06 PM
Holbach @72
To be fair to the agnostics, neither are they sure about whether to drink the kool-aid.
Posted by: Holbach | August 30, 2008 10:10 PM
Katherine @ 74
You mean the koolaid that was dispensed at Jonestown, Guyana?
Posted by: TX CHL Instructor | August 30, 2008 10:18 PM
"Joel's Army" is considered batshit insane even by mainstream Christians. I would not be terribly concerned about a (small) group of potentially-violent Christian fundies when there is a MUCH WORSE threat out there...
You see, there is a sizeable faction of Islam that is the same batshit insane, but is actually ACCEPTED by mainstream Islam. Islam is the most dangerous superstition on the planet, and it is not particularly helpful to be distracted from that by "Joel's Army".
Posted by: mayhempix | August 30, 2008 10:18 PM
@Chemist #73
Fair enough.. thanks for the clarification. Agreed on Obama.
Posted by: bigjohn756 | August 30, 2008 10:26 PM
For some reason, probably going back to my Catholic childhood, I thought that Paul was a Greek. I need to check that out.
Posted by: mayhempix | August 30, 2008 10:36 PM
Funny how TX CHL Instructor #76 is so worried about what we think... that must be why he's a gun freak.
Posted by: Jared | August 30, 2008 10:40 PM
I'm not one to promote violence in any way, but if they attempt to shove ANY religion down my throat by military force, I am more than prepared to fight back. This is partially the reason I am a firm believer in the right to keep weapons (but think training should be mandatory). In a perfect world, they wouldn't be needed, but alas, it is far from perfect. After violence in Baton Rouge following the ghetto refugees from New Orleans erupted, I quickly decided arming myself was a good idea...
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | August 30, 2008 10:43 PM
Islam is the most dangerous superstition on the planet, and it is not particularly helpful to be distracted from that by "Joel's Army".
Yeah, Tex, 'cos getting beheaded by a mooslim is so much scarier than getting burned at the stake by a Christain (spelling intentional).
It just hit me while I was over at "Sadly, No"...
ZOMG! PALIN IS HUCKASHE!
Posted by: Ichthyic | August 30, 2008 10:51 PM
You see, there is a sizeable faction of Islam that is the same batshit insane, but is actually ACCEPTED by mainstream Islam
tell it to the vast hordes of self-professed Catholics who sent death threats to PZ just because he threatened to trash a cracker, let alone when he actually did.
funny, but at the same time, he trashed a Koran, and a copy of "God Delusion" (IIRC).
the "batshit" xian horde outnumbered the "batshit" muslim horde by two or three orders of magnitude.
You will find at least as many muslims decrying fundamental extremism as you will xians decrying the same thing in their religion.
you really haven't the slightest clue as to how this stuff works, do you.
nope. You just cower in fear as Feaux News drumbeats the word "terrorism" into your tiny little brain.
sucks to be you.
Posted by: Feynmaniac | August 30, 2008 10:52 PM
The article says,
"Despite their overt militancy, there's no evidence Joel's Army followers have committed any acts of violence"
I got evidence that Todd Bentley commited violence. Here is a video of him KICKING A MAN WITH STAGE IV METASTATIC COLON CANCER IN THE GUT to 'heal' him. Careful it's hard to watch.
Posted by: Prohibitoid | August 30, 2008 10:59 PM
I agree with Doug, way above, that the great irony here is that these people have tax exempt status (they do, right? i have not checked into it, but churches generally get it while atheists do not).
Posted by: Sastra | August 30, 2008 11:09 PM
Creepy, creepy, creepy.
Faith has no brakes on it. Believers put the stops where they will, based on their background, situation, personality, whatever. But having hope that God is real, and that God speaks to you, and that God has a plan for the world, doesn't have any built-in checks to it. If you're really, really, really sure you know what God wants, then faith tells you to go for it. If you're right about God, then you win.
In the story of Abraham and Issac, the God character sins. The sin wasn't telling Abraham to kill his son. The sin was expecting and encouraging and rewarding Abraham for believing he heard God's voice. It shouldn't have made any difference whether it really WAS God's voice or not. People shouldn't be that sure.
Posted by: Eli | August 30, 2008 11:23 PM
That IS frightening... but especially so that Sarah Palin is involved (if only tangentially) with the death cult. I mean seriously... these people need psychiatric evaluation. Most religion, though irrational, is one thing... huge crowds of willfully ignorant, violent people with nothing to lose is quite another.
Posted by: mnphenow | August 30, 2008 11:24 PM
Between this post, the one about the fascist tactics used by the Minnesota law enforcement agencies, the utter insult to the intelligence of every US citizen embodied in the VP choice by the GOP (in fact, all of the candidates from the establishment parties), and of course countless other examples--I would like to welcome everyone to the Dark Ages 2.0.
What's funny is that Christianity is so bereft of imagination that they couldn't even propose a worse hell, though clearly they are more than capable of bringing one about.
Posted by: mnphenow | August 30, 2008 11:30 PM
And this is why Dawkins insists on "militant atheism" (of course not in the physically violent sense--that would be irrational), but these people cannot be given one inch of ground to stand on in any serious discussion of anything civilized. Rational people need to stop being so polite and ramp up their efforts to smash all of the fairy tales, myths, fables, superstition, pseudo-science, and irrationality that is so woefully pervasive.
Posted by: Mike Allen | August 30, 2008 11:40 PM
Obama was a member of a racist, black separationist church for 20 years (and quit only when exposed). His wife wrote a black separatist paper in college.
One is a VP candidate (and you're going by something from Daily KOS. Who's the fanatic?) the other (Obama) is running for president.
Somehow, I think you're the ones sounding reactionary and ignoring a bigger issue.
Posted by: Katharine | August 30, 2008 11:42 PM
Mike -
Somehow, I don't think you understand how dangerous this shit actually is. 'Black separatism' has largely died down and PALES in comparison to batshit insane fundies.
Let me guess: you're a conservative.