…and this is a 
This could be a dreary mistake
Category: Creationism
Posted on: August 1, 2008 4:59 PM, by PZ Myers
I've agreed to another talk radio debate — this time it's not a Christian radio station, so there's hope of some ethical behavior on their part — on WDAY, AM 970 next Tuesday, 5 August, at 10am. We're supposed to debate intelligent design, and my opponent is…
My opponent is…
Really, I'm embarrassed to say it…
My opponent is…
Ray Comfort.
O Lord, could you please stop making my enemies so ridiculous? It's getting a little bit excessive.
Comments
Congratulations, this will be an easy one!
Posted by: Kim | August 1, 2008 5:00 PM
oh no.
this is going to be a massacre.
I quite going to his blog because of how incredibly stupid it has gotten over there. And that is saying something.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 5:00 PM
Well, at least we know that by the time he is reduced to debating Matt Dillahunty at the Atheist Experience, he will be a completely broken man, having been clubbed to a state of near-death by the logical tentacles of a mental cephalopod.
Posted by: Michael Russell | August 1, 2008 5:01 PM
quit
ugh too much time on the comp today.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 5:02 PM
Best of luck, man. Just remember, he's an idiot. If you can keep your cool, you should have no problem coming out on top.
Posted by: Son of a Nonymous | August 1, 2008 5:03 PM
Bwahahahaha! Oh please, post this one when it's done! (maybe a video would be more banana-friendly?)
Posted by: onclepsycho | August 1, 2008 5:05 PM
But wait...intelligent design has nothing to do with religion!
Posted by: James F | August 1, 2008 5:05 PM
Don't forget to bring a banana! (The atheist's worst nightmare, don't forget.)
Posted by: Pixelfish | August 1, 2008 5:05 PM
I'd wish you good luck, but that would be kind of unnecessary considering who you're debating . . .
Have fun! Looking forward to listening. :)
Posted by: Charades | August 1, 2008 5:06 PM
Oh my God. Watch out, he might bring a banana. YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE.
Posted by: Max Udargo | August 1, 2008 5:07 PM
Don't forget to bring your cyberpistol PZ! Shoot up his arguments with cyber-bullets!
This is going to be a very funny argument.
Posted by: Bacterial cowboy | August 1, 2008 5:10 PM
You can't fir me, I quite.
PZ's first task, I figure, is going to be getting Ray to shut up for five seconds. Expect him to saddle up the ol' Gish horse and ride ride ride.
Posted by: Rey Fox | August 1, 2008 5:10 PM
You know, I've caught Ben Stein on Glenn Beck's show on TV a couple of times the last couple of weeks, and I listen for a minute and think to myself, "When those two are in the same room, it must be the highest concentration of pure stupidity in the universe." But now that I think about it, Comfort and Cameron probably achieve a higher density.
Posted by: Max Udargo | August 1, 2008 5:11 PM
wow, that is a waste of your and talent time PZ. Ray Comfort is a person who can and should be destroyed by undergraduate students.
Posted by: sleepless_in_my_dorm_room | August 1, 2008 5:12 PM
I've made a huge and dreary mistake.
Posted by: GOB Bluth | August 1, 2008 5:12 PM
I'd be guessing that only the most clueless would dare debate PZ any more. Excluding even the mindless Simmons.
I'd say don't bring the banana. I'm afraid Ray might become overly excited.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | August 1, 2008 5:13 PM
I get the sense that you already regret your decision. PZ, in all seriousness, you should consider getting an agent.
Posted by: bunnycatch3r | August 1, 2008 5:13 PM
wow, that is a waste of your and talent time PZ. Ray Comfort is a person who can and should be destroyed by undergraduate students. - sleepless_in_my_dorm_room
Or kindergartners.
Posted by: Max Udargo | August 1, 2008 5:14 PM
That must be like having a warm, fluffy lobotomy. Hopefully, the effect will only be temporary. Have fun!
Posted by: Kevin Anthoney | August 1, 2008 5:14 PM
Kinda overkill having you go up against him isn't it? Kinda like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.
Posted by: Dahan | August 1, 2008 5:14 PM
Oh wow. He should forfeit before he gets stomped.
Posted by: Ashley | August 1, 2008 5:16 PM
Well regardless of the actual outcome, we all know how Ray will spin it. He's already won. He's going to pull the kent hovind / ken ham style faith filibuster complete with scripture and references to his books and Way of the Master.
Are there any guide lines to the debate PZ?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 5:16 PM
Nilla wafers (no, this is not another cracker reference!) and some condensed milk go well with bananas to make banana pudding.
Or bring Wonder bread, mayonnaise, and peanut butter then go all Elvis on him with a 'nanner sandwich.
Defeat ID by eating their 'host'! ;)
Posted by: WRMartin | August 1, 2008 5:17 PM
"You know, I've caught Ben Stein on Glenn Beck's show on TV a couple of times the last couple of weeks, and I listen for a minute and think to myself, "When those two are in the same room, it must be the highest concentration of pure stupidity in the universe." But now that I think about it, Comfort and Cameron probably achieve a higher density."
I say we test this hypothesis by weighing them and then throwing them into water and holding them under 'til the bubbles stop...
That is how you measure density, isn't it?
Posted by: Lago | August 1, 2008 5:17 PM
That news fucking made my day! Ray Comfort is an amazing joy to listen to, and hearing him against an expert biologist will be pure heaven (on Earth, that is)!!!!
Posted by: Tosser | August 1, 2008 5:18 PM
PZ, please make sure you get equal air-time before the microphones go live. Just a thought, but you know how those religious loons hog the airwaves, loving the sound of their own ignorance.
Posted by: Missus Gumby | August 1, 2008 5:18 PM
Are you saying they are Witches?
or Ducks?
or Witchoducks?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 5:18 PM
You have GOT to be kidding. This, I have got to hear. Ray Effing Comfort?? I'm not even sure he's actually capable of debate. In order to debate, don't you need to listen to what your opponent says from time to time? Ray lives in a strange world of his own making. When you speak, it will probably register to him as some kind of foreign gibberish. Of course, that's more or less what it sounds like to me when he speaks.
Posted by: Form&Function | August 1, 2008 5:20 PM
I demand a Crocoduck!
Posted by: HumanisticJones | August 1, 2008 5:20 PM
It's not a debate if one of the debaters refuses to abide by reason and some form of fathomable logic. Comfort is as intellectually dishonest as they come. It's going to be a beating just to endure his level of inanity. Are you sure you want to risk a few brain cells for a majority of listeners whose knowledge is purely dogmatic anyway, even if it isn't an xian station? NPR yes, AM local -meh. Somehow this reeks of a pearls before swine scenario, but perhaps I've become too cynical and jaded.
Posted by: E.V. | August 1, 2008 5:21 PM
LOL
Be courteous and use lubrication.
Posted by: Alex | August 1, 2008 5:23 PM
OT, I just saw this and thought of Crackergate: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=949#comic
Posted by: tommy | August 1, 2008 5:23 PM
Ray Comfort? Like RevBigChimp said I thought Ray is just about trying drone out his opponent with BS. I always took Comfort as less an idiot and more a confidence man.
Posted by: Bob L | August 1, 2008 5:23 PM
Take a pineapple with you.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | August 1, 2008 5:24 PM
"Are you saying they are Witches?
or Ducks? or Witchoducks?"
I would say quack, but wouldn't that imply a Phd?
No really, I think the "specific epitaph" for them should be "Deaduckus moronosis"
Posted by: Lago | August 1, 2008 5:24 PM
Woohoo, it's the I-look-like-Einstein guy.
So what exactly is his scientific proof of God? I'd really like to hear it.
Funny how often you'll hear that people have proof, but they somehow don't feel like sharing it much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Comfort
Posted by: Bjørn Østman | August 1, 2008 5:25 PM
Wait... You mean he's real?
I thought he was just one big Poe.
Sure seems like it.
Posted by: MikeM | August 1, 2008 5:25 PM
#34 - LOL
Posted by: Theodore | August 1, 2008 5:26 PM
I've never heard Comfort debate so I don't have any sense of his style or ability. However, he shouldn't be underestimated. One easy way to lose a debate is to miscalculate the opposition. Sure, what the guy preaches may be stupid but that doesn't mean he's stupid or inept.
Just don't be overconfident, PZ.
Posted by: JoJo | August 1, 2008 5:27 PM
So far PZ should bring a Coke Can, a banana, a pineapple, and a Turducken?
Posted by: Lago | August 1, 2008 5:27 PM
Take an artichoke along with the pineapple.
Posted by: Coragyps | August 1, 2008 5:28 PM
You do know who Ray Comfort is right?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 1, 2008 5:29 PM
Well I just want to make one thing clear.
I am not going be the one who has to mop Comforts blood and guts from the studio floor after PZ has eviscerated him.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | August 1, 2008 5:29 PM
I laughed long, hard, and with much deep felt pity.
Posted by: pradeep | August 1, 2008 5:30 PM
Instead of a banana someone should bring a life like dildo and point out to Comfort that it also fits his hand perfectly. Then ask him what the theological implications of that are.
Posted by: Boosterz | August 1, 2008 5:30 PM
So this is it, PZ. You've finally gone bananas.
Posted by: Tony Sidaway | August 1, 2008 5:31 PM
Before you go, you might want to run through this class real quick.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | August 1, 2008 5:32 PM
JoJo is right. PZ should prepare as if he was debating the most vile slippery creationist he can think of. Just because Ray is a effin' dipshit, does not mean PZ should just treat this as a cake walk...
PZ, the creationists love setting up things to trick you, and better yet, they love to think of themselves as David against Goliath. You know this. DO NOT FREAKING FALL FOR IT!
Posted by: Lago | August 1, 2008 5:32 PM
Awesome.
I can't wait to hear what the latest "atheist's nightmare" is.
Posted by: Stephen | August 1, 2008 5:32 PM
Holy Crackers, this doesn't mean you are going to do horrible things with a banana, I hope..
actually a study of other spots on the human anatomy designed to accommodate a banana might earn you a Peely Award from the Discovery Institute.
-------------------------------
New Atheists for Dummies Pt7: former iconoclast Christopher
Hitchens KPFT Houston
Posted by: scooter | August 1, 2008 5:32 PM
Blaaaahahahaha, Ray Comfort. Better stock up on bananas and keep up on the latest scientific information on crockaducks. Ray is such a blithering moron that easily got pwned by the Rational Response Squad on national television.
Posted by: Doug | August 1, 2008 5:36 PM
Oh hell yes. I can't wait.
Posted by: Ghost of Minnesota | August 1, 2008 5:37 PM
"Ray is such a blithering moron that easily got pwned by the Rational Response Squad on national television."
The RRS did a mediocre job at best. Sure Ray and "Pal" completely failed at their objective, but they failed all on their own with no help from the RRS.
I want PZ to freakin' murder Mr. Comfort.
Posted by: Lago | August 1, 2008 5:39 PM
The first thing you will have to do is fight the urge to start laughing uncontrollably.
Really, do try to keep a straight face.
Posted by: PeteC | August 1, 2008 5:40 PM
Kudos to Ray!
I mean I wouldn't have the guts to debate Pz.
He has courage.
Posted by: bunnycatch3r | August 1, 2008 5:40 PM
I've been reading Comfort's blog for some time now, and I think I should say: be careful of him - he's very slippery, and almost totally unscrupulous. He's good at portraying himself as a reasonable person and his opponents as irrational.
Good luck PZ! I'll look forward to hearing the debate!
Posted by: Rowan | August 1, 2008 5:41 PM
Hand in the air - *oh! Oh!!* Pick me, pick me! I'll do the witch part.
Ol Ray, what a champion True christian - as a dog returneth to it's vomit, so doth a fool to his folly.
Posted by: Patricia | August 1, 2008 5:43 PM
Closest I've come yet to doing an actual spit-take.
Posted by: pough | August 1, 2008 5:44 PM
WoW, Ray Comfort (IQ 80). I think it might be best to ignore whatever he says and just talk about evolution. Oh ya, read up on fruits as this seems to be one of his favorite subjects.
P.S. Watch-out for that croc-o-duck I heard he bites penises.
Posted by: Dave UH | August 1, 2008 5:45 PM
I vaguely recall that the best bits of that RRS debate weren't broadcast on TV. Jason Rosenhouse wrote about it.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 1, 2008 5:45 PM
If you're going to debate that dipshit on radio, go over to his blog Atheist Central. (Sorry--tried to post a link but it wouldn't take. Just google atheist central ray comfort.)
You can find such howlers as--
.................
"If (as is commonly accepted) the natural phenomenon of evolution had no end in mind when it created all living things, it is incredibly intelligent, but it forgot that they would go spinning into space without the law of gravity. So it was fortunate for us that gravity just happened to be around to stop that disaster."
---The Blind Faith of the Theory of Evolution.
"So if evolution is responsible for our hands and the rest of creation, we should fall at its wondrous feet in absolute homage. We should praise and adore it, and live in admiration of its power and ability. We are morally obliged to fall in worship, for its goodness in giving us the awe-inspiring gift of life. It is only right that we love evolution with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength.
Many do. It's called "idolatry."
---Like The Back Of My Hand
"I've been looking into the issue for more than thirty years, and I have never seen a hint of genuine evidence of species-to-species transitional forms in the fossil record. The theory stands or falls on the supposed links between species. Even if you came up with what you believe is evidence, time would prove it to be another hoax, as it has so often in the past."
---Could You Believe?
"So the question that would settle the evolution argument and ease the mind of the doubting atheist is, is there any scientific proof for species-to-species transitional forms in the fossil record? If there is absolute proof of one species actually evolving into another, that would settle the question once and for all. The answer is that there isn't. There's much speculation, but the link is still missing. So the atheist has to fortify his faith with all his straw-man arguments and his circular reasoning."
---Powerful Proof God Doesn't Exist
"In short, the evolutionary view cannot offer a logical, scientific explanation for either the origin or the complexity of the universe. There are only two choices: Either no one created everything out of nothing, or Someone--an intelligent, omnipotent, eternal First Cause--created everything out of nothing. Which makes more sense?"
---The Origin Of The Universe
.....................
All quotes right off his goofy blog, followed by thread title. There are scores more, many better than these.
Your debate strategy could write itself after looking over some of those gems.
Posted by: captain howdy | August 1, 2008 5:46 PM
ROFLMA!!!! It took me a couple of seconds to remember who that is and then OH NOEZ!! NOT THE BANANA!! THE PEANUT BUTTER!! OH THE AGONY!! I really really want to listen to this one! This ought to be a hoot!
Posted by: ouchimoo | August 1, 2008 5:46 PM
I assume you'll be done knocking down his idiocy by 10:05 am.
Posted by: Qwerty | August 1, 2008 5:48 PM
Check the debate they had with the rational response squad if you want to know what his style is. It involves crocoducks btw.
Comfort is likely to demand there is a need for a supernatural creator and work from there. A few easy and powerful examples showing how kludgy some structures are put together and gain functionality in small steps should work pretty good.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | August 1, 2008 5:50 PM
Scenario-Opening statement Myers."Evolution is Bullshit.Now Banana, tell the good folks how we got here."
Posted by: Casey Luskin Awardee | August 1, 2008 5:51 PM
Holy crap, how'd you get talked into that one?
Posted by: mothwentbad | August 1, 2008 5:53 PM
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | August 1, 2008 5:54 PM
Oh man, this I have to see.
Just so you know, he loves the "Creation has to have a Creator" semantic argument. Deflate that by pointing out that it's a semantic argument, and refer to it as Existence or The Universe instead.
Posted by: GWD | August 1, 2008 5:54 PM
Chuck Missler again. The last few seconds are good.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | August 1, 2008 5:55 PM
Comfort is a complete loon and he has absolutely no problem with lying to get his point across. I used to live in Huntington Beach, CA. where I was treated each weekend to Comfort's ignorance on full display. I believe he and his minions still "preach" there every weekend.
He used to have a guy dressed in a monkey suit jumping around saying "Don't let the evilutionists make a monkey out of you"!
PZ, you will have no problem wiping the floor with this moron.
Posted by: Bad Wolf | August 1, 2008 5:56 PM
Be sure and get him to admit that there is a "creator" when he plays that shell game known as Intelligent Design.
Posted by: Qwerty | August 1, 2008 5:57 PM
Will Chunky Monkey ice cream be available to all the guests?
Posted by: Mena | August 1, 2008 5:58 PM
Pasta Sauce: The Creationist's Nightmare!
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | August 1, 2008 5:59 PM
And exactly what do you gain by debating Ray Comfort, except to give him more credibility? Would you debate a six-year-old girl? Or a senile old man?
Posted by: The Exterminator | August 1, 2008 5:59 PM
Ask Ray, if a banana in the hand proves that humans are well designed, why aren't the other simians divine?
And why just the banana? Why not the pineapple or the pear or the watermelon?
And if the banana was designed for humans to eat perfectly, why were there none in the middle east during Biblical times?
Peculiar.
Posted by: Christopher | August 1, 2008 6:00 PM
Could some one record it somehow. These are entirely too much fun.
Posted by: ILYA | August 1, 2008 6:01 PM
Oh, my God!
Posted by: rickflick | August 1, 2008 6:04 PM
I've met Ray. He's a nice guy, albeit uninformed and misguided. He visited us (by invite) at our monthly Orange County Atheists meeting several months ago to ask us about our political views and how non-theists define morality. As expected, he presented the usual creationist canards in defense of his own ideas. It's reasonable to expect the usual creationist fallacies during the debate (fine-tuned universe, irreducible complexity, argument from personal incredulity, evolution violates the 2nd law, the first cause argument).
Posted by: Alan Chapman | August 1, 2008 6:05 PM
Be merciless.
Posted by: anthropic | August 1, 2008 6:05 PM
That guy will try to dominate the conversation and not let you talk. Don't let him do that to you, PZ.
As a side note, I've been waiting quite awhile for this guy to get his ass handed to him, scientific-style. So kudos to you for doing this.
Take a look, if you aren't already aware, of the reasons he proclaims to his followers as to why evolution is false and his illogical approach to how there never have been and never will be any transitional fossils. I'd love to see you call him on that.
He has also said that nothing in the entire world would/could convince him that evolution is real.
The banana thing isn't important, really, because he has already said in one interview that he has conceded the banana argument.
Now if he will only accept Matt Dillahunty's challenge !!
Posted by: Logic & Reason | August 1, 2008 6:06 PM
Good Luck. and watch out for snake venom...though in this case, old snakes aint so poisonous... as they say.
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 1, 2008 6:08 PM
Ray also seems convinced that for evolution to be true, a new species has to form in a single generation. Dogs giving birth to cats, that idea... Not very bright, but then, these are creationists.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | August 1, 2008 6:09 PM
What? No one else has said this yet? Okay. I'll do it:
Hey, PZ! Do you know how to defend yourself against a man armed with a banana? You shoot him. If that doesn't work, try releasing the tiger. (You can't be too careful when protecting yourself against the fruit-laden assailant.)
Posted by: Zeno | August 1, 2008 6:10 PM
You should be OK so long as he doesn't use the argument from spitty-slurpy.
Posted by: Reginald Selkirk | August 1, 2008 6:10 PM
Ray Comfort hasn't had debate point (or new thought, for that matter) in years. That alone gives you a huge advantage because you know ahead of time exactly what he's going to say.
Posted by: Justin H. | August 1, 2008 6:10 PM
This should be like taking candy from a baby. Ray Comfort being the man who said you don't have to understand evolution to argue against it. What a moron he is and I can't wait for you to knock him down a few pegs.
Bring an orangutan and a salad to the studio, just to throw him off.
Posted by: Kel | August 1, 2008 6:12 PM
If you wanna have fun with Ray, ask him if he thinks he understands biology better than the NAS does. Then ask him on-air a few tough questions you'd ask one of your biology majors on a final.
When he's done sputtering out some scripture, spend the rest of your time lecturing him; you know--Where do you get off accusing me and my fellow scientists of deceiving the public when you clearly don't know enough biology to pass a test any of my undergrads have to pass?
Posted by: captain howdy | August 1, 2008 6:12 PM
I guess all the good banana jokes are gone, eh?
That's all I have to add, I'm not peeling well right now.
Posted by: Bunk | August 1, 2008 6:12 PM
You can point out that Intelligent Design has as much worth as the track that looks like a $1,000,000.00 bill that Comfort sells on his website.
This track has the picture of Rutherford Hayes on it. Another mediocre Republican president who stole an election.
On a personal note, I have always been fond of peanut butter and banana sandwiches.
Posted by: Qwerty | August 1, 2008 6:13 PM
Also, since a lot of people have been bringing up the banana argument, I should mention that he's been happy to concede that one lately. It's probably not worth bringing up against him anymore.
Posted by: Justin H. | August 1, 2008 6:14 PM
The Monty Python "fresh fruit" skit is on YouTube, too, of course. Check it out here:
Defense against fresh fruit
Posted by: Zeno | August 1, 2008 6:15 PM
I know a great place where Ray can stick his banana... you can tell him God designed it specifically to fit in his special hole. The great thing is that the peel will keep it clean and he can eat it afterwards.
Posted by: mayhempix | August 1, 2008 6:16 PM
I forgot to include this: recently he said on his blog that human beings are not animals.
You read that correctly. Human beings are not animals and science only says they are so man can sin and act like animals.
I can not wait for this debate.
Posted by: Logic & Reason | August 1, 2008 6:16 PM
OMG fangirl squeeeeee!!!!
I mean, enjoy his entrails as you rip every shred of dignity from his person, oh betentacled one.
And as has been mentioned, try to get them to strict time controls, even to the point of using a timer, to keep statements to a reasonable length each and prevent Comfort from rambling the whole time.
Posted by: Carlie | August 1, 2008 6:16 PM
His website encourages "spiritual warfare;" so, you better be careful. He may smite you.
Posted by: Qwerty | August 1, 2008 6:19 PM
Every time you say god say "lowercase god." He might ban you from the interview just like he does on his blog.
Posted by: k3vin | August 1, 2008 6:22 PM
Haha... see if you can get a hold of an autographed Croci-duck photo.
Posted by: Christopher Sisk | August 1, 2008 6:23 PM
PZ, I appreciate seeing you calling out to the Lord. And I pray that the Lord answers your prayer by one day giving you and opponent better than Ray Comfort.
Posted by: James Goetz | August 1, 2008 6:24 PM
Ray Comfort qualifies as your debating "opponent" in the same way that Gustaf Johansen was an "opponent" of Cthulu.
Posted by: Mark | August 1, 2008 6:24 PM
I used to be an OK tennis player, and I hated playing tennis against really terrible opponents because they threw off my game. I would still win, usually, but not without a cost in grace. Never underestimate the power of the clueless to bring everyone down.
And as far as that "creation has to have a creator" argument--which is just beyond stupid--it barely rises to the level of semantics. I would just ask if snowflakes require a snowflaker and gods need a godder, then. Makes as much sense.
Posted by: Greg Peterson | August 1, 2008 6:25 PM
Careful. If you make God mad he'll retcon the universe so that you're wrong about evolution. Oops, sorry, I think he just did. My eyes! They feel so complex!
Posted by: The Chemist | August 1, 2008 6:25 PM
Ugh. He's an embarrassment to my cross-Tasman neighbours.
Take an unhusked coconut: if he does whip out his banana as evidence for benevolent design ask him to extract god's goodness from it with his bare hands.
Posted by: Wowbagger | August 1, 2008 6:27 PM
Wow, talk about a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
Give 'im the ol' rusty nail PZ!!
Posted by: Ducklike | August 1, 2008 6:27 PM
Be advised that Ray is not known for his honesty!
I'd recommend doing a lot of research on this particular character as possible. Perhaps by looking at what he says in his book, since I'm sure he'll mention it sometime, or use material from it during your interview.
This is just one of the many ways he distorts evolution.
He tries to dismiss his actions here.
He's also one of the guys who loves and defends the "Expelled" movie.
PZ, you're going up against one of the biggest bullshitters the other side has. And you're hoping for ethical behavour??