…and this is a 
A fine example of Christian cowardice
Category: Kooks
Posted on: September 7, 2008 7:24 PM, by PZ Myers
Raving creationist nutbags get shredded pretty thoroughly when they make comments here, I know. Still, that doesn't excuse the efforts of the craven lackwit to hide from criticism by scuttling over to my daughter's blog and whining that I'm a wicked parent who has condemned his own daughter to hell.
It's awfully stupid, too, since Skatje and her friends are having all the fun of using their claws and sharp, sharp teeth on him. If anyone wants to join in the evisceration, go on over. Ask for Gustaf.
Comments
Posted by: scooter | September 7, 2008 7:47 PM
That Skatje is pretty bright. I love being a parent, they always surprise you, most of them are good surprises over here, so far.
Posted by: Holbach | September 7, 2008 7:51 PM
Isn't it just like a demented religionist to go after young minds that are still malleable for insane dogma. The creotard Gustav (as in the Gustav Line?) thought it would be easy to mess with a seemingly immature 18 year mind, not yet hardened to the rationalities of atheism, and a gutless aversion to insinuate himself into we hardened creotard bashes here. From what I read of Skatje's bio and site, and her genetic progenitors, I am sure she will handle the demented dolt in her own manner and do us proud here on Pharyngula. Run him through the cesspit Skatje and drop a hint that we would also like a crack at him. Do leave a little for us though, as we haven't had a good row for a spell.
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 7, 2008 7:59 PM
Can't say I'm surprised by the tactic of harassing children. Christians are quite big on terrorizing kids with their murderous mythology and tales of psychopathic sky-daddies.
Still, it's pretty disgusting that this Gustaf fool doesn't have the good manners or courage to talk to you.
Posted by: Kel | September 7, 2008 8:02 PM
I guess he's just trying to emulate God, and using people's children to affect the person they really have a vendetta with. God could have just went after the pharaoh, but no, he had to kill the firstborn children of everyone in Israel instead. But this is a civil society so any real violence has been replaced with threats of imaginary violence. It's slightly less malevolent in action, but just as malevolent in thought.
Posted by: Alan Chapman | September 7, 2008 8:06 PM
Gustaf said: "...the MAJORITY of the world knows that a God exist."
The fallacy of Argumentum ad Numeram incorrectly equates numbers in support of a contention with its correctness. Gustaf was accused of committing Argumentum ad Populum, but that fallacy is characterized as an appeal to the masses or "playing the gallery."
Posted by: Patricia | September 7, 2008 8:08 PM
PZ that was a tough assignment. Had to go back into icky Church Lady persona *shudder* to leave a comment fit for the younger set. ;)
Posted by: schism | September 7, 2008 8:08 PM
Too bad Gustav didn't respond to requests for evidence of how obvious God's existence is. I always love seeing roller coaster logic in action.
Posted by: schism | September 7, 2008 8:10 PM
Or Gustaf. Whatever; it's not he seemed care about spelling.
Posted by: Michael X | September 7, 2008 8:21 PM
Yikes, Gustaf is a serious nut job. The fact that he equates "liberal" with "against god" is a clear indication that we are dealing with the bottom of the barrel here. Although, if all liberals were atheists, I think I'd be pretty happy.
Posted by: Rhysz | September 7, 2008 8:32 PM
BAH! BAH! BAH!
Another nutjob, I don´t understand how you can stand it PZ. Luckily, you only post the cream of the crap for us so we can have a good laugh. (or should I say crap of the crap? poll to follow) Anyway, it just reminds me of the movie Dogma. You're a lost cause mate, so they're going after the young, just like the cigarette industry!
P.S.
PZ, do you know what 'Skatje'usually means in Dutch? The answer can be found on your daughter's forum. GL and keep up the good work!
Posted by: PZ Myers | September 7, 2008 8:40 PM
You mean our little treasure? Our sweetie?
Posted by: raven | September 7, 2008 8:45 PM
Cults prey on the mentally ill, mentally slow, lonely, and young. Some statistics from the Moonies indicate that practically no one over the age of 25 will join. (I've been reading lately about cults seeing as our next VP might be an Assembly of God/Third Wave/Rapture Monkey cultist).
Gustav undoubtedly knows this and is hoping the 18 year old is more vulnerable than a battle scarred veteran like PZ. Or he is a child molester looking for some young fluff. Or both, the two frequently go together.
Posted by: Rhysz | September 7, 2008 8:49 PM
@ PZ
Sorry, I wasn't more clear:
'Skatje' is slang for schatje, which could, roughly be translated as 'Small (or little) treasure'. When used in spoken language it usually means sweetie or honey. (eg. "Dag schatje/skatje" would mean "bye sweetie") It's definately a term of endearment in any case.
Best regards,
Rhysz
Posted by: Rhysz | September 7, 2008 8:51 PM
P.S.
I'm sure she's your most absolute treasureable (is that a word?) treasure.
Posted by: raven | September 7, 2008 8:56 PM
HeY!!! You just insulted the maybe VP of the USA. Palin's church believes exactly that. Liberals=bound for hell.
In his own words. Palin is a member of a right wing far out cult who uses the codewords and jargon of Joels Army and Destiny Dominionists. Raven's rule. No matter how bad it seems, it can always get worse.
Posted by: Patricia | September 7, 2008 9:09 PM
So far Gustaf hasn't answered my challenge. I assume he's held his breath long enough to meet his gawd in person.
Gave the kiddo's a bible quote to tease the idiot about. They should have fun with fundie unicorns vs. FSM.
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 7, 2008 9:14 PM
I wonder if has has a facial tic every time he says one of those words he types in all capitals.
Posted by: Amy Lark | September 7, 2008 9:32 PM
That's interesting. I've had a foaming-at-the-mouth xian trying to convert me on my blog, too. I'll put the link here (I don't know how to do it the fancy html way), so you can witness his arrogance if you want.
http://harkthelark.blogspot.com/2008/08/reasons-why-i-would-never-vote-for.html
Also, please to admire my daughter while you're there... :)
Posted by: Stephanie | September 7, 2008 9:33 PM
PZ, your daughter is very bright. I can relate to her, being a young adult and dealing with crazies like that who feel a need to comment on my religious beliefs (or lack there of). I commented on her blog and told her that I think that the monkey Gustaf evolved from must of had some sort of mental defect. :)
Posted by: lenny_mule | September 7, 2008 9:38 PM
I used to be among that crowd (the cowards). I can still remember "waking up" and realizing how clouded, really diluted, my thinking was. Your an excellent parent for not diligently filling your children with boogie-mannery.
Posted by: Janine ID | September 7, 2008 9:39 PM
Posted by: raven | September 7, 2008 8:56 PM
Raven's rule. No matter how bad it seems, it can always get worse.
Igor's rule. It could be worse. It could be raining.
Posted by: eddie | September 7, 2008 9:51 PM
Re Raven - #12
I'm afraid it's worse than that.
Now they prey on the mentally ill by putting them in a call centre with an automatic generator of badly spelt guff.
Posted by: Trish | September 7, 2008 9:52 PM
I kind of feel sorry for the idiot. She's gonna kill him.
Posted by: Dale Husband | September 7, 2008 10:12 PM
Christian extremists are easy targets, P Z. Maybe you should take a cold hard look at the Baha'i Faith, too. As a former member of it, I can testify that its claims to be a tolerant, progressive and consistent religion is no more credible than Christianity. The more light you shine on that, the sooner we will kill it, before it becomes as dangerous as Christianity and Islam before it!
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/why-i-quit-the-baha%e2%80%99i-faith/
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/the-fatal-flaw-in-bahai-authority/
Posted by: Randallphobia | September 7, 2008 10:13 PM
When I have a child, I do my best to raise him/her so that s/he grows to be as confident & well spoken as your daughter. It sounds like you folks did a good job with this child. I'd love to have someone like her in my classroom.
Posted by: FoadTucker | September 7, 2008 10:15 PM
Well, I, for one, was pretty disappointed. Gustaf didn't seem to hang around very long, and wasn't up to the standard of loonie fundamentalism that we see here on Pharyngula, Dispatches, etc.
The whole episode seems overblown to me.
Also, I think that PZ's identifying of Skatje as his daughter, and suggesting that everyone hop over to LR has rather distorted the incident, and cast a shadow over Skatje, rather than allowing her to stand alone. She did a fine job, but having people from here feeling that they need to jump in and defend her over rather detracts from here solo efforts.
PZ, let the girl shred the fundies on her own...
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 7, 2008 10:17 PM
It's a well known fact that Skatje is the spawn of PZ. This was nothing more than passing out flyers to a troll BBQ.
Posted by: Foad | September 7, 2008 10:19 PM
@Janine ID #21
Foad's Pacific NW Observation: This is the Pacific NW: it IS raining.
Posted by: Amy Lark | September 7, 2008 10:55 PM
If anyone is interested, there are some fish in these other barrels, too:
http://blogs.parentcenter.babycenter.com/momformation/2008/09/04/the-great-fuss-over-gay-guinea-pigs/
http://blogs.parentcenter.babycenter.com/momformation/2008/09/03/what-do-you-make-of-republican-vp-nominee-sarah-palin/
Conservative Christian mothers are the kookiest of them all, I think!
Posted by: Enkidu | September 7, 2008 11:05 PM
She will rip his tiny little mind to shreds, and he'll be to stupid to feel the pain. There oughta be a law . . . .
Posted by: Patricia | September 7, 2008 11:12 PM
Foad you toad, paint your face with woad.
I live across the road from the Google Borg cube. It's 81 degrees, clear, and it ain't raining. Doo, dah, doo, dah!
Posted by: Dale Husband | September 7, 2008 11:13 PM
"Also, I think that PZ's identifying of Skatje as his daughter, and suggesting that everyone hop over to LR has rather distorted the incident, and cast a shadow over Skatje, rather than allowing her to stand alone. She did a fine job, but having people from here feeling that they need to jump in and defend her over rather detracts from here solo efforts.
PZ, let the girl shred the fundies on her own..."
Spare us the lame concern trolling, OK?
Posted by: Kel | September 7, 2008 11:15 PM
Maybe it's just that we wanted to jump in on the fun rather than needing to stand up for her.Posted by: Azkyroth | September 7, 2008 11:15 PM
What the hell would a child molester want with an 18 year old?
Posted by: Jessa | September 7, 2008 11:23 PM
Aww. You guys get all the good trolls. All I get on my blog is a concern troll who says that I haven't found the right church yet.
Posted by: Kel | September 7, 2008 11:26 PM
I don't even get trolls on my blog at all. Probably because each post is an essay on it's own and that's just too much for someone to read.Posted by: Patricia | September 7, 2008 11:35 PM
Foad - You are the most shrivelled ass that has been on this blog in a long time. Go read the posts on Skatje's blog by the Ilk. They are all kind, correct and to her age group.
If PZ had boiled up from the deep and thundered, release the kracken, it would have looked MUCH different.
Your problem with supporting young people shows just what a fucktard loser you are.
Grog & swill cut off.
Posted by: Patricia | September 7, 2008 11:50 PM
#35 & 36 - Kel & Jessa - If you really feel the need, I can go over to your blogs and play church lady? Nobody knows hellfire, blasphemy, snake kissin' and damnation better.
Hey! That might be a new 'calling' for me. Thumping up trolls for the Ilk. Do I win Elitist Captain if I bring down the wrath of Big Bad Bill like PZ?
Posted by: Paul Johnson | September 8, 2008 12:06 AM
As much as I love derailing logicless arguments I must say that at times it becomes very frustrating. I think overall being so intelligent has raised the stress levels of my life considerably.
Does Pharyngula have an atheists guide to living and debating happily in such a frustrating world? Should we make one? I want to help others avoid this kind of feeling and I think material to help atheists live the lives they want in the world that doesn't want to let them would be an indespensible weapon in the struggle for a better world.
Posted by: Kel | September 8, 2008 12:11 AM
Thanks for the offer, though the less people who are giving those views the better tbh.I've had a missionary message me on facebook asking me why I spend so much effort doing this. Given the fact she's overseas doing missionary work means she's already made up her mind, and all she wanted from me was validation of her point of view.
Posted by: Jessa | September 8, 2008 12:20 AM
Patricia @ #38: I think you would have a hard time topping dailystruggles.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 12:27 AM
#34 - Azkroth - What the hell would a child molester want with an 18 year old indeed... the chance to go where no man or woman has gone before and ruin someones life.
If that was his mission, he now knows that Skatje has a watchful daddy and lots of razor clawed adult friends. Oops, wrong young woman to target.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 12:30 AM
Damn! Nobody peek. I gotta bend over and pick up that 'y' I dropped.
Posted by: Azkyroth | September 8, 2008 12:34 AM
The logic of a "child molester" pursuing a legal adult still escapes me.
Posted by: Phoenix Woman | September 8, 2008 12:36 AM
Just in case it hasn't been posted here, check out the scene at Wasilla's AoG church, the home of Sarah Palin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 12:48 AM
Jessa - I couldn't see the blogger you linked to because your entire blog comes up on my screen as a huge block gobbel-dee-gook. Still, *thrusts out well filled blouse*, I would take up the challenge against dailystruggles. Chaff, mere chaff compared to my christian 'larnin'. Humpf and piffle!
Kel - Because you share the name with one of my cousins, garnering my 'good christian sympathy', I went to your site and typed in such a hellfire rebuking diatribe of your book choices that the pope would cringe. Then tried three times to post it. *sigh* Kel, you can't leave the Debble in charge of your website posts. If you want Christian Soldiers to be sent by GOD, you have to make it FOOL FRIENDLY like PZ does.
Posted by: Kel | September 8, 2008 12:55 AM
Commenting didn't work? Curses! It must have gone into hyperdrive. Phooey and double-phooey.
The only thing I have on there is the word verification, other than that ANYONE can comment.
Posted by: Samantha Vimes | September 8, 2008 1:07 AM
Patricia, tell Azkyroth you really meant to say "sexual predator" instead of "child molester" and then maybe the tangent will be dropped.
Posted by: Jessa | September 8, 2008 1:10 AM
Hmmmm. Guess Satan's blocking you. ;) http:\\impoliteconversation.wordpress.com is the address. Maybe I have Teh Dumb when it comes to hyperlinks. The logical fallacies post is where the crazy really came out.
Posted by: Azkyroth | September 8, 2008 1:22 AM
Second-guessing the use of emotionally loaded terms beyond the applicability of their definitions is not the sort of pointless exercise you imply with your use of "tangent" - this is the reason we have Godwin's Law.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 1:22 AM
#44 - Azkyroth - I beg your pardon. That is my olde skool attitude showing. 21 is the drinking age here in Oregon, and in the good ol' days, that was considered adulthood.
Even that is an oxymoron, because 18 year olds can join the military and be killed - but not buy a beer. 15 year olds can drive on a permit... when my grandmother was a child, she was married off at age 9 in Tennessee.
Age laws, and age attitudes are really varied in America. I'll admit to personal fundie-ism on this one.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 1:51 AM
Azkyroth,
I make me stand up for an 18 year old, and I don't give a shit who they are. Sorry, I have never heard of Godwins Law. Ignorant slut, and all that...
Child molesting never goes away. I've been at bike runs and had 50 somethings make crying confessions late at night, by the campfire to me about horrors committed against them.
Please, give it up, it's never right. If you want to call it rape or adult molesting or prowling predator - fine, but my suspicion stands. If the guy wants to bust PZ, go after him, not his daughter.
I'm going overboard not to loose my temper and descend into obscenities, but you are pushing an obscure argument way passed the level most people with children in their family can swallow.
Posted by: Azkyroth | September 8, 2008 2:23 AM
Apparently ignorant. But "slut" was your word, not mine, and I'm not falling into that trap.
You're right, but...
What in any conceivable HELL does the above have to do with a single word I've said?!
I have a child (an actual child, not a legal adult), you presumptuous twit. And the argument that "words should not be applied to things outside of the scope of their definitions for pure shock value" A) is not "obscure" and B) is not an argument which the parenthood of a spectator or participant should have any relevance - unless you're actually saying that an emotional investment in a given subject is tantamount to a blank check to completely disregard the normal rules of lexicon and just fling whatever words one wants at it, which is a position so stupid that just typing it out explicitly required a superhuman effort.
Is there a different person now commenting under the name "Patricia" from the one who was previously an OM candidate/winner (I forget which)? I remember her being intelligent and clear-headed.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 2:28 AM
Kel & Jessa - Well I tried. And I must say, I left you some of the most profound christian truths that have ever been quoted. Sweet baby jezus, Pastor Phelps and the Landover Baptist Church all blushed in sinful repentance at my points of your godless sacrilege. You blasphemous heathens were withered, smitten and beaten down like chaff before the saviors gifts to one of his most filthy sinners.
And now, because the Debble is in charge of your pagan websites, you will roast forever in a lake of hellfire, with demons prodding your backsides. All of my blessings and prayers for you iligetimate gay, non poison drinking lesbians are lost.
I tighten my laces and try to help you heathens, but Noooooo, all you want is another cheap chee-borger. Humbug, and phooey!
So if thats the thanks an ignorant bible totin' slut get's - humf. I mount my finely shaped dappled Ass, aside, and trot off to bed, leaving you to deal with the Debble on your own.
God night you godless heathens!
Posted by: John C. Randolph | September 8, 2008 2:38 AM
#10,
So, it sounds like "Skatje" in Dutch is related to the word "Schatz" (literally, treasure) in German?
-jcr
Posted by: Kel | September 8, 2008 2:39 AM
I've got to say, I'm almost afraid to check my comments now.
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 2:44 AM
#53 - Azkyroth - Yes, I am ignorant.
But at this time of night, I am also bone tired and brain dead - so will reply to you in the morning. Watch over your child. Good night sweetheart. :)
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | September 8, 2008 7:40 AM
Godwin's Law:
Posted by: varlo | September 8, 2008 7:46 AM
Re Raven's Rule:
Varlo's Rule: It IS worse.
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 8, 2008 10:14 AM
... Hurricane Gustav has since been downgraded to a mildly annoying subtropical disturbance. Expect intermittent gusts of hot wind occasionally provoking laughter, scattered and increasingly incoherent apologetics for the absurd, settling down to random, sullen sniping by Tuesday...
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 1:28 PM
#53 - Azkyroth - humm...every time I re-read this I fail to translate it into 'Patish'. From the tone, probably you have given me the most thorough dressing down I've had in years. Point taken. As to completely disregarding the normal rules of the lexicon, yep, I am always guilty of that.
'Descending into obscenities' is a troll/Brenda joke not meant in anyway to offend anyone. Sorry you missed that one, it's in the category of "As everyone knows...'. She branded me with it during the great Beltane Bash of 08.
Presumptuous Twit - dang, I would really love to move up to that. But I must decline your offer. Evicting the current Pres. Twit is just flatly beyond my budget. Besides I couldn't bear leaving my fellow sluts to tend the gutter alone.
This doesn't mean I am giving up my views on child molesting age groups, but in future I will try harder to keep it to my little fundie soaked, lexicon slaughtering self. 2 points for you 00 for me. Can we be pals again?
Posted by: Patricia | September 8, 2008 1:55 PM
#56 - Kel - Oh come on! You said you wanted a troll. After the drubbing I just took from Azkyroth I could do with a bit of outrageous french flattery.
Wasn't that a taste of some of the foulest, most terrifyingly stoopid trolling you've ever read?
This day is starting out just plain depressing. It's taken the twirl plumb out of me that you didn't appreciate my help, and PZ didn't threaten to ban me. :(
Posted by: Hap | September 9, 2008 3:19 PM
Do these people (Gustav, the people threatening PZ over the cracker) have a point, or at least one that isn't self-defeating? Is this some sort of cultural superiority narrative that I am unable to get, some sort of personhood test for new converts ("go forth and hunt the dreaded Atheists, and when you can bring back one of their pelts, you will become a person.") or are these people irreparably ignorant and stupid?
Sorry. Why did I even ask?
I'm guessing they're short a few converts now.