…and this is a 
Just like Dover…
Category: Creationism
Posted on: September 17, 2008 4:59 PM, by PZ Myers
Well, well, well. Look what the Brunswick school board in North Carolina has been up to…
"It's really a disgrace for the state school board to impose evolution on our students without teaching creationism," county school board member Jimmy Hobbs said at Tuesday's meeting. "The law says we can't have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists."
When asked by a reporter, his fellow board members all said they were in favor of creationism being taught in the classroom.
The topic came up after county resident Joel Fanti told the board he thought it was unfair for evolution to be taught as fact, saying it should be taught as a theory because there's no tangible proof it's true.
"I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
The board allowed Fanti to speak longer than he was allowed, and at the end of his speech he volunteered to teach creationism and received applause from the audience.
How many fallacies can you find there? Evolution is a secular theory; it's not our fault if atheists are copacetic with the evidence, while crazy creationists can't abide it. Fairness is also not an issue here, since the reason evolution is taught is because it is the best explanation of the evidence. What would be unfair is bringing unsupported fairy tales into the science classroom and giving them a privileged place over hard-earned, well-supported science.
The facts of evolution, such as that the earth is old, there was a pattern of faunal succession, genetic mechanisms can account for variation, etc., are facts. Of course they should be taught! The parts of evolution that are theoretical, the way common descent explains observations in molecular biology, for instance, are no less valid and valuable for being theories. This guy is making the common mistake of thinking that calling an idea a theory is a demotion.
We do see organisms evolving now, in both the lab and in nature. We can indirectly see the effects of evolution even over time-spans which we could not live long enough to witness: we can infer evolution by comparing human and chimpanzee genomes, for instance, and by knowing rates of accumulation of mutations in populations, we can make estimates of the time course of change. Someone doesn't have to be there to be able to assemble a convincing argument for physical events that have left physical traces.
Uh-oh. He got applause. Now people are going to push for the inclusion of this nonsense in their curriculum. Yep, here it comes…
Board attorney Joseph Causey said it might be possible for the board to add creationism to the curriculum if it doesn't replace the teaching of evolution.
What kind of attorney is this? No, that's not an acceptable legal solution. That state science standards mandate certain content in the public schools does not mean that if you meet the standards, you can then spin off any random line of baloney that you feel like. This was the Dover argument, remember: that they would just mumble some lip service to Intelligent Design, and all would be well.
Also like the Dover case, the proponents of introducing ID had already scuttled their case with public discussion at school board meetings of using it to introduce the religious concept of creationism, so the sectarian purpose was obvious to the court. Look here: Brunswick has already admitted that they're floating this idea because some gomer was ranting about bringing bibles into the science class room.
Schools' Superintendent Katie McGee said her staff would do research.
Babson said the board must look at the law to see what it says about teaching creationism, but that "if we can do it, I think we ought to do it."
Somebody from the ACLU or NCSE ought to inform these people fast that their attorney is all wet and they are about to screw over their school district badly…before they go down that familiar path to self-destruction. The law says that they can't do it.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 17, 2008 5:04 PM
Oh you KNOW he wanted to ask why there are still monkeys.
Posted by: Curt Cameron | September 17, 2008 5:08 PM
"If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
How does that question make sense even to them?
"They SAY the little hand on the clock is moving slowly, but if it's moving so slow, why don't I see it moving?"
Posted by: Azdak | September 17, 2008 5:09 PM
I found this pretty hilarious until it occurred to me that his vote counted for as much as the next guy.Edjumacation. You're doing it wrong.
Speaking of which, did anyone ever manage to post video of PZ's Denver talk?
Posted by: King of Ferrets | September 17, 2008 5:11 PM
Wait, did I hear that right? They're not even planning to teach the somewhat watered-down ID, but full-blown creationism?
Maybe school boards should have a minimum IQ requirement to get elected...
Posted by: Nick Kanellos | September 17, 2008 5:12 PM
I hope Kenneth Miller still has his tie clip. He may need it again.
Posted by: Alex Besogonov | September 17, 2008 5:14 PM
A good question for Fanti: "Were you here 2000 years ago?"
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | September 17, 2008 5:14 PM
How many times must you sit creos down
and tell them what a theory is?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
the answer is blowin' in the wind.
Posted by: Scott | September 17, 2008 5:15 PM
No wonder the ACLU is vilified by the Right. The conservatives (excluding Goldwater-esque libertarians) are the ones trampling the Bill of Rights! If the ACLU gets involved and defends the First Amendment, I'll gold plate my membership card. PZ, I might need your help!
BTW, has everyone signed the constitution voter pledge on their website yet?
Posted by: aarrgghh | September 17, 2008 5:15 PM
because you're ... mm, how shall i put it ... slow?
Posted by: Rebecka | September 17, 2008 5:15 PM
I'a undergrad biology student from Sweden. I can't belive that these kind of people are taken serious in USA, or anywhere! It's so shockingly stupid!
Posted by: Noni Mausa | September 17, 2008 5:16 PM
"...The law says we can't have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists..."
And how about that godless cult, the Kemists? They've taken over from the traditional and respected Phlogistionists of the days when there were still saints and everything was much better except for the plague and no anaesthetics. Down with the Kemistrian Heresy!
Noni
Posted by: Glen Davidson | September 17, 2008 5:16 PM
The one thing I love about creationists/IDiots is that they can always be trusted to always give away their unconstitutional religious designs.
Indeed, it's just like Dover, except that we don't have the lies about what they're trying to do yet. Odds are that we'll get those lies soon.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: dinkum | September 17, 2008 5:18 PM
Why do each of these tribes think that they're the first ones to try this? Do they not read, I mean, fucken ANYTHING? Don't their shamans at least mention the evils of Dover during the Weekly Chant?
Seriously. Same Shit, Different District. Next comes the legal pwnage, and then the Victimized Weeping. Grinds a heathen down, man.
Posted by: Alan Chapman | September 17, 2008 5:18 PM
I especially liked this remark:
"...we can have evolution, of the atheists."
I bet those atheists also believe in gravity. What fools!
Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
Posted by: extatyzoma | September 17, 2008 5:19 PM
theres one thing that fundies seem to not realise: the type of gobbledigook speak that is religious babbling does not work well when trying to show your scientific credentials.
in a nut shell: if you talk religious or scientific nonsense the believers around you wont notice you are talking nonsense, the non believers will notice however, and on BOTH counts.
Posted by: CJO | September 17, 2008 5:19 PM
The prosecution rests.
Posted by: Teh Merkin | September 17, 2008 5:21 PM
But I was, so why not just take my word for it? What's that, you have no good reason to believe me? That's fair.
Now about that Bible of yours...
Posted by: The Cheerful Nihilist | September 17, 2008 5:22 PM
""I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?""
Geez. Talk about "slow."
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 5:23 PM
Two words: religiously motivated. Game, set and match, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.
"Two thousand years ago someone died on the cross, isn't someone going to stand up for him?" was the death knell for the defense at Dover.
Posted by: extatyzoma | September 17, 2008 5:24 PM
"I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
lsd? pot? dropped on head as baby?
Posted by: I am so wise | September 17, 2008 5:25 PM
Great, without doubt, we'll get to see Steven Fuller make an ass out of himself again. He's such a disgrace to good work postmodernists have done in fields like history. May he Foucault off and die.
Posted by: Darth Wader | September 17, 2008 5:26 PM
I'm sorry children, but due to the legal costs of trying to teach creationism, the school can no longer afford the following;
books, chalk, arts, humanities, calculators, or competent teachers.
What a way to screw kids over, teach them religious hogwash as science and cause the school to run out of funds. No child can be left behind if no child is allowed to exceed.
Posted by: KH | September 17, 2008 5:28 PM
Here are two email addresses for Shirley Babson, the chair of the Brunswick County Board of Education (the one who said "if we can [teach creationism], I think we ought to do it.":
sbabsonbdofed@hotmail.com and sbabson@bcswan.net . Addresses for the other board members can be found through links at http://www.co.brunswick.k12.nc.us/education/components/scdirectory/default.php?sectiondetailid=339 .
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | September 17, 2008 5:29 PM
The fundies are just holding out for McSame and Huckashe to win the election so they can nominate more troglodytes to the Supreme Court.
As bad as we think Obama's lip-service to faith can get, he's really the only option we've got now.
Anybody consider donated to Barr's campaign?
Posted by: James F | September 17, 2008 5:29 PM
"I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
Sounds to me like he's admitting that the Earth is at least 2 million years old! HERETIC!
Posted by: Blake Stacey | September 17, 2008 5:29 PM
Oh, what a spectacle that'll be. It's not like he's stopped doing so since Dover. . . .
Posted by: Lledowyn | September 17, 2008 5:32 PM
It's pretty obvious that these idiots have not heard about Dover at all. And their attorney needs to be fired from his position. How retarded do you have to be to look at the ample case law about teaching creationism, and still think that it's ok to teach it under any circumstance? The mind boggles.
Posted by: JonathanL | September 17, 2008 5:32 PM
No place for creationism in science class, state says
Hehe: "The Brunswick County school system offers a Bible as Literature course in high school, but it's not being taught this year because no students signed up for it, according to administrators."
Posted by: Teh Merkin | September 17, 2008 5:33 PM
It might the that whole "eyes closed, fingers in the ears, I'm not listening!" thing you do when it comes to evidence.
Just a thought.
Posted by: Matt | September 17, 2008 5:34 PM
Ignorant Limey here.. why the hell is it that Christian fundies keep getting elected to school boards across the United States?
Posted by: Fred | September 17, 2008 5:34 PM
And #6 shuts up the Brunswick School Board with the ultimate crusher!
'Nuff said.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 17, 2008 5:36 PM
The hold of religion on smaller towns.
Posted by: Desnes Diev | September 17, 2008 5:36 PM
PZ: "The law says that they can't do it".
Perhaps you should have remembered that if you - Americans - do not feel concerned now, the law may change... if Palin has something to say about it, by example.
Please, vote! For education and intelligence, not bigotry and self-confident ignorance.
Desnes
Posted by: Marc Abain | September 17, 2008 5:36 PM
"The law says we can't have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution"
Yes. End of.
Posted by: varlo | September 17, 2008 5:38 PM
"Maybe school boards should have a minimum IQ requirement to get elected..." (#4)
But then in some districts it would be impossible to get a quorum.
Posted by: imflyboy | September 17, 2008 5:38 PM
Wow. Why is it that the uneducated are able to influence education like this? It seems as the rest of the world moves forward, the United States is moving backwards at an ever increasing pace. And I can't imagine what'll happen if this nut job Palin gets in office. Too bad that the Republicans have probably already rigged the election anyway
Posted by: Lana | September 17, 2008 5:38 PM
Oh my. It appears no one in the room reads newspapers or news magazines so missed the Dover story. Perhaps the kindest thing to do would be to send the attorney a copy of that decision. Assuming he has someone who can read it to him.
Posted by: CJO | September 17, 2008 5:40 PM
Ignorant Limey here.. why the hell is it that Christian fundies keep getting elected to school boards across the United States?
Because ignorant nutjobs are a majority here, and an overwhelming one in most rural and suburban areas.
Posted by: jj | September 17, 2008 5:40 PM
Way OT BUT..
Looks like someone (actually a group) hack Shara Palin's personal email account, and apparently using it for her covert governors business. Looks pretty legit, found it linked from a (fairly) legitimate tech site (gizmodo.com). Check it out
http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 5:40 PM
And explain what the hard words mean like, "constitution", and "secular". Oh, and "science".
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 17, 2008 5:42 PM
Since the lawyer probably can't read too well, somebody should him of DVD of the Nova "Judgement Day" episode about the Dover case. It would probably scare the bejebus out of him.
Posted by: pdiff | September 17, 2008 5:44 PM
Rebecka@10
"I'm a undergrad biology student from Sweden. I can't belive that these kind of people are taken serious in USA, or anywhere! It's so shockingly stupid! "
Stupidity (and it's ugly cousin, violence) are always under the surface just waiting to pop out no matter where you look. It wasn't so long ago that the people of Europe were gleefully butchering each other, repeatedly, over trivial perceived political, ethnic, and religious differences. While things have been quite there of recent, don't be fooled into thinking they are gone (as the recent ugliness in the Baltics has shown). Still, I do have to admit that we Americans have a certain knack for holding the wrong end of the stick... :-(
Pdiff
Posted by: bfish | September 17, 2008 5:44 PM
Hell, the newspaper reporter knows about Dover:
"In 1997, proponents in the N.C. General Assembly tried to amend the law to say that evolution must be taught as a theory and not as a fact in public schools, but that did not pass. Then at the national level in 2005, a federal judge barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching "intelligent design" - which claims organisms must have been created by a higher power and that it's compatible with evolution - as a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state."
Maybe the lawyer for the school board can ask her what the law says.
Posted by: Nentuaby | September 17, 2008 5:45 PM
Deep, deep voter apathy, extending into candidate apathy. The majority of elected school board positions are given essentially by default to the only person who bothered to run for it. Other times, in small towns, a candidate who's technically opposed may win just by mobilizing her personal acquaintances to vote.
It's a pretty frequent denouement for these idiots to finally goad someone into opposing them for real and then lose by a landslide.
Posted by: Alan Chapman | September 17, 2008 5:47 PM
#30 It's not just the school boards. I live in Orange county (in southern California) where there is a concerted effort by some self-serving individuals to place "In God We Trust" on the walls inside the various city council chambers. Many city governments have acquiesced.
Posted by: Teh Merkin | September 17, 2008 5:47 PM
Maybe for the same reason that our juries are filled with retired folks and unemployed people - they have nothing else to do? That's just a guess, but think about it... Xian fundies have no good purpose in their lives, otherwise they'd be out there, you know, doing good instead of screwing up education. They are motivated, because their twisted worldview tells them that education is evil, and must be replaced with their fairy tales. Oh, and they literally think they are on a Mission from God.
Rational Americans (there still are a few) aren't busy shoving shite down other people's throats, and tend not to exhibit instinctive mistrust of the "intellectuals" who might normally populate a school board.
Hmmm, this might make a good topic for my next paper...
Posted by: Kel | September 17, 2008 5:52 PM
C-R-E-A-T-ION Goooooo retards!
God damn nutjobs and their nutjob beliefs. Science is not inherently atheistic, though the bible tries to be a natural science book and fails. It's not our fault the infallible word of God got it wrong, no need to punish the students because an omniscient being didn't lay out the theory of evolution or plate tectonics in genesis chapter 1.
Posted by: Quiet_Desperation | September 17, 2008 5:53 PM
"I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
Wait... what?
Dammit, PZ! Reading that quote is going to require at least three Advils to counteract.
Posted by: Another Primate | September 17, 2008 5:53 PM
I'm all over this one!!! My son attends Virginia Williamson Elementary School in Brunswick County, NC. I am in the process of getting the proper and might I add accredited people involved! I hope we don't have to get nasty but we will if we have too. I have already told my sons principal and several school board members that I will be moving if they bring a work of literature (and not a good or moral one) into his school and teach it as fact. Brunswick County is one of the fastest growing counties in the country right now (beach county) and that's actually going to work in our favor. The locals, as we call them, are fundi fuck tards but the people moving into Brunswick County in droves are primarily young to middle age progressive minded people with good educations. I think once this whole thing get out to the majority of the parents with children in this school system they will come out and put the brakes on these wackaloon's. I will keep you all posted.
Jason C.
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 5:55 PM
School boards tend to fill up with fundies for the same reason Zoning boards tend to fill up with people angry at their neighbors' landscaping choices: the position attracts those who are power hungry, and have too much time on their hands and an agenda to push. Most small town school boards are part-time, volunteer positions that don't attract people that don't have ulterior motives.
Posted by: EvilEvolutionist | September 17, 2008 6:00 PM
This is so freaking awesome. The school board clearly likes to talk, so let them talk. And record every single word for future litigation.
I have to say though, I disagree with PZ Meyers that someone from the ACLU or the NSCE needs to "inform" them. They wanted that attorney? Let them have him.
The people of Brunswick are collectively responsible for this debacle. The board is solidly creationist. If they want such a board, let them have them. Once they see their real estate values crash through the floor and their property taxes go sky high to pay off the court costs, they'll wisen up. Dover needs a few more examples and Brunswick has bravely stepped up to the plate.
Brunswick, thank you for sacrificing your children and your property values so the rest of us can prosper.
Evil(tm) Evolutionist
Posted by: jj | September 17, 2008 6:03 PM
@45 Alan
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, I grew up in Orange County, and there are some crazy people down there. Ya' know, that whole Saddleback Cult-church thing. Ya ever been in that place, it's bigger than Saddleback college! I'd only been there for "undergrad night" which turned out a scam to try to get high schoolers to step into a church. Did I mention Rick Warren(shivers down the back)? Happy I got out of there after 19 years, but still go back to visit the fam.
Posted by: EvilEvolutionist | September 17, 2008 6:06 PM
Hey Another Primate, good luck over there. Make sure you get everything on the record. Everything. And just to warn you, these battles last for years. Do NOT give up. I speak from personal experience.
Encourage all of the creationists to talk as much as they want.
Evil(tm) Evolutionist
Posted by: Patrick Quigley | September 17, 2008 6:06 PM
So he doesn't think that we should teach about anything that happened before he was born? So much for history classes - the Roman Empire, the Renaissance, and the American Revolution are just unproven theories apparently. The Bible would also qualify as a "theory" unless he is claiming to have been around when Yahweh was turning on the lights and splitting water.
Posted by: charles stores | September 17, 2008 6:07 PM
Forgive me, PZ, for this priggish reaction to your misuse of the word theory. You seem to conflate, as so many mistakenly do, the meanings of the words theory and hypothesis. In science, hypotheses are informed guesses. Theories aren't guesses, informed or otherwise. They are explanations (see Oxford English Dictionary). Evolution is a fact, established by the eloquence of the data supporting it. The explanation of the fact of evolution is the mechanism of natural selection (and other mechanisms). That explanation is the theory of evolution. Likewise, in geology, continental drift is a fact explained by the theory of plate tectonics.
Posted by: Kel | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM
PYGMIES + DWARFS??Posted by: gryphn | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM
You might suggest that the school board consider adding materials available here to the curriculum. Maybe some one could distribute some literature at a few board or PTA meetings.
But then, rational thought might not be considered a virtue by those needing it.
Posted by: Liam | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM
Question: Would anyone actually oppose teaching creationism from a scientific point of view? It seems PZ is getting a little hotheaded about this...Surely there's no harm in telling kids that these crackpot loons are so attached to their fairy tales that they won't accept such a robust theory like evolution...but have no problem accepting aerodynamics each time they board an aeroplane. If I had my way kids would be taught philosophy of science before their first science class. Teach them what makes a good theory and they'll realise themselves what a joke the evolution/creation debate really is.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM
Next from Joel Fanti:
"Ok, atheists, if God, as you say, doesn't exist, why isn't there any evidence for Him? Gotcha!"
Posted by: frog | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM
pdiff: It wasn't so long ago that the people of Europe were gleefully butchering each other, repeatedly, over trivial perceived political, ethnic, and religious differences. While things have been quite there of recent, don't be fooled into thinking they are gone (as the recent ugliness in the Baltics has shown). Still, I do have to admit that we Americans have a certain knack for holding the wrong end of the stick... :-(
Recently after a seminar with an Italian ex-pat, I asked him about funding for science back in Europe. The response? "Don't think about going there - you look too Arab!"
It's right there -- since it's impolite to scapegoat the Jews, they just looked for some folks that kinda look like them!
Posted by: Thrillhouse | September 17, 2008 6:09 PM
If you made it three paragraphs into that news story without bashing your head against something, congratulations. You're made of stronger stuff than I am.
Posted by: Thrillhouse | September 17, 2008 6:15 PM
Well I wasn't here 200+ years ago, so I can't really be sure the Revolutionary War happened. More to the point for him, was he around in Biblical times? If not, how can he possibly believe in anything in that book?
Sorry for the double post, but I had to recover a bit before I could say anything of any substance.
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 6:16 PM
I was taught (okay, taught about) creationism in the context of a list ideas that were supplanted by evolution. But that isn't what we're talking about here. These people want creationism taught as fact, as an equally valid alternative to evolution.
Posted by: BobC | September 17, 2008 6:16 PM
I left the following comment on starnewsonline.com:
"It's really a disgrace for the state school board to impose evolution on our students without teaching creationism," county school board member Jimmy Hobbs said at Tuesday's meeting. "The law says we can't have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists."
Jimmy Hobbs, it's a disgrace that an uneducated hick like yourself is on a school board. You should be fired immediately because you're just plain stupid. It's not fair to students to have a moron like yourself making decisions about science curriculums. If you have a problem with science because of your childish medieval religious beliefs, then get out of my country. You belong in a theocracy like Iran.
Posted by: Teh Merkin | September 17, 2008 6:17 PM
Oh no, it is much, much better than that... If he wasn't there, he has no basis for belief. How the fuck does he even know that Evilution is being taught in schools? Was he there? (Oh god, how I love that "Were you there?" line!)
America is full of homosekshuls getting married? How does he know? Was he there?
P-Zed killed a wafer? How does he know? Was he there? Photographic evidence? Planted by Satan!
Are all the words in his Bible replaced with "Sorry for the inconvenience?" when he closes it? By his standards, he has NO WAY OF KNOWING!
Teh stoopid, it fucking BURNS.
Posted by: Mark Shields | September 17, 2008 6:20 PM
I am a PhD biologist and live just 3 counties away. I have a resolution to this whole problem that will keep the schools out of it. If the school board really wants equal treatment of creationism and evolution, I'll gladly come to their churches and teach evolution to their bible school students. Just let me know which Sundays (I'm free every Sunday), and I'll be there!
Posted by: Trish | September 17, 2008 6:23 PM
Holy crap! Can those people even define Evolution??? Or contitutional rights for that matter! I guess I'm going to have to start taking church's to court so I can the law enforce equal time for Evolution on Sunday mornings...
Posted by: Tony Sidaway | September 17, 2008 6:24 PM
I thought the "equal time" nonsense died over ten years ago.
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 6:25 PM
No, it just morphed into "teach the controversy".
Posted by: maxamillion | September 17, 2008 6:26 PM
Looks like China is the new superpower.
Sad really, I didn't want to learn Mandarin but thems the breaks.
Posted by: Skwee | September 17, 2008 6:27 PM
Oh you KNOW he wanted to ask why there are still monkeys.
If there are still monkeys, how do you explain PYGMIES+DWARFS?
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 17, 2008 6:29 PM
Yeah, because that whole notion that women are sprung from the ribs of man in a garden of talking snakes and trees with magic fruit on them makes so much more fucking sense.
I think I need a bar of soap and a sweatsock. We need to pound the stupid out of these imbeciles before they give their children brain damage.
Posted by: tsg | September 17, 2008 6:29 PM
The vast majority of those who don't accept evolution don't even understand what they are arguing against.
I have this hypothesis that the more ignorant a person is, the more anxious they are to spread it around.
Posted by: llewelly | September 17, 2008 6:30 PM
Barr advocated a 'defense of marriage' amendment that would outlaw gay marriage on religious grounds. He's advocated many other infractions against the constitution on religious grounds as well. Barr has learned to talk the libertarian talk recently, but his past behavior puts him somewhere between McCain and Palin.Posted by: Ryan F Stello | September 17, 2008 6:32 PM
This is what I love most about creationists:
They're not only blissfully unaware of complexities and advancements in biology, but they're also unaware of recent history.
It reminds me of one of those pro-ID commenters we had here during the 'Expelled' debacle claiming that the world's mind would be blown.
They just can't help themselves from repeating their mistakes and thinking, "By golly, yes. This time we shall conquer you all!"
Posted by: Metro | September 17, 2008 6:33 PM
"I wasn't here 2 million years ago," Fanti said. "If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"
Well in some cases, mate, we don't.
Posted by: thalarctos | September 17, 2008 6:33 PM
Fixed that for ya, Andrés.
Posted by: tonyJ | September 17, 2008 6:36 PM
Firstly, I am from the UK. American people are responsible for some of the greatest achievements in human history, yet recently,and I may be wrong but it seems to me that America is becoming publicly, as a nation, even towards it's own people, disturbingly stupid and agressive. I feel sorry for the many smart, decent americans that could be seen as a forgotten minority. In my lifetime the attitude towards the American people has changed very much for the worst, many fellow Brits I know fear your nation. Ten years ago I could not have said that. I saw a T shirt recently for sale with a map of America on the front. The name was not the United States Of America but 'Dumbfuckistan.' A good laugh, unless you are a rational American.
I hope the UK isn't heading in the same direction.
Peace, good luck.
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 17, 2008 6:37 PM
Actually, that makes perfect sense. If they can not rise up to compete on an equal level intellectually with their peers in their community, the next course of action is to lower the intellect of that community until you can not only compete but be seen as one of the most learned.
Posted by: Tony Sidaway | September 17, 2008 6:40 PM
I was amazed by the blatant ignorance of the members of that board. Where do they get these people from?
Posted by: JonathanL | September 17, 2008 6:42 PM
The same paper that had that article just put up this follow up today. I think the school board members might want to give it a read.
No place for creationism in science class, state says
Posted by: CalGeorge | September 17, 2008 6:47 PM
Educational attainment of school board chairwoman, SHIRLEY BABSON:
Education:
North Carolina School Boards Association
National School Board Association Seminars
Institute of Government, Chapel Hill, NC
Continuing Education Courses, Brunswick Community College
Continuing Education Courses, Cape Fear Community College
Graduated from Shallotte High School - Honor Student
She couldn't manage to get through college? And she's chairing the school board?
Her other notable achievements:
1992-95: Chairman of Brunswick County Republican Party
2006: NC Republican Hall of Fame
Charter Member: Holden Beach Ladies Club, Tidewater Junior Women's Club, Boiling Spring Lakes Ladies Club, Brunswick Republican Women's Club
Way to go, Shirley!
Posted by: RBH | September 17, 2008 6:47 PM
Jason C wrote
I trust the "proper" people includes NCSE, AU, and ACLU. They have considerable expertise in these kinds of affrays.Posted by: decrepitoldfool | September 17, 2008 6:49 PM
From the comments I can see others were struck by that prizewinner. It's definitely going in the quote file.
Posted by: tbnu | September 17, 2008 6:58 PM
tsg wrote:
The vast majority of those who don't accept evolution don't even understand what they are arguing against.
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That's because those who actually take the time to understand evolution end up accepting it.
Posted by: Efogoto | September 17, 2008 7:03 PM
Just yesterday I sent a couple of sentences from Judge Jones opinion memorandum to a friend:
"The breathtaking inanity of the Board's decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources."
Posted by: Ryan | September 17, 2008 7:07 PM
The thread after the article in JonathanL's post is pretty scary.
Posted by: imflyboy | September 17, 2008 7:23 PM
#78.
Could you please tell me where to get that shirt?!
There's another one I'm going to order that has a pic of Jesus with cockblocker written under it. Funny and true!
Posted by: Woody |