…and this is a 
Lunatics for Palin
Category: Kooks
Posted on: September 8, 2008 9:45 AM, by PZ Myers
One of the weirder religiot freakaloons recently was the fellow whose electoral strategy was to pray for a McCain/Palin victory, and then pray for McCain's "speedy death". Well, that kook has since gone back and revised his post to be a little less blatant: "Pray for John McCain's salvation and pray specific imprecatory prayers if he fails to pro-actively defend the sanctity of human life". Isn't that ever so much better?
By the way, if you follow that link, you really must watch the video of Holy Ghost Power Encounters. Thoom shaka laka nonny-nonny ding-dong, yabba dabba doo.
Comments
Posted by: Renee | September 8, 2008 9:50 AM
I think my heart skipped a couple beats. Are these people INSANE?!
Oh, wait. Never mind. Stupid question.
Posted by: Lee Picton | September 8, 2008 9:53 AM
I made it through 59 whole seconds. It seemed like forever.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | September 8, 2008 10:00 AM
So, the guy's saying that if McCain fails to defend the sanctity of life, he should die.
Makes perfect sense.
Posted by: David Costa | September 8, 2008 10:00 AM
Wow...Just Wow! and even sadder all of the comments on YouTube take that seriously.
Posted by: Richard Harris | September 8, 2008 10:01 AM
It's incredible that the USA could risk having the idiot Sarah Palin become President. If McCain, an old man, becomes seriously ill, she'll ... I can't think about it, it's too frightening.
Sarah Palin gives me the creeps anyway. Why doesn't she do that to all the fans of her's? She comes across, to me, as someone with her head right up her own arse.
And then there's her record. I understand that 90% of Alaska's revenue comes from oil, so she screws big oil in Alaska for taxes so they don't want to do business. Then she asks her supporters to pray to their feckin' god for the oil reserves to be exploited! Multi-level idiocy.
This candidate brings the USA into disrepute.
Posted by: JStein | September 8, 2008 10:01 AM
This guy really is nuts. Even more nuts, though, is his lone commenter, who seems to believe that we're racists who are faking our atheism because we can't write Christian books.
He also accuses the atheist of making "ad homiem" attacks (his mispelling, not mine), which I find pretty entertaining.
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 8, 2008 10:03 AM
"Palin" is ancient Greek for "again".
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 8, 2008 10:12 AM
#6 "ad homiem" was actually a spoof commenter: http://calvinists4conservatism.wordpress.com/ .
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 10:18 AM
KAMALASHONDALABOSH!
See, this deformity is what happens when an area has no good dance clubs.
(Part where the girl's on the floor with them all standing around her and he's telling her the lord has something good for her: beyond creepy.)
Posted by: tobasco72 | September 8, 2008 10:18 AM
These people in the video need to go back and take a good look at themselves. How nutty and empty do you have to feel to fall for that crazy crap?? Its embarassing to even watch. I JUST WANNA SLAP SOME REASON INTO'EM IS THAT SOOO BAD???
Posted by: Confused | September 8, 2008 10:20 AM
"pray specific imprecatory prayers if he fails to pro-actively defend the sanctity of human life"
Not sure it's better, but now with added irony.
Posted by: ennui | September 8, 2008 10:24 AM
Re: video
This is religion for people who regret having missed Woodstock. I kept waiting for John Belushi to yell "gator!"
All the lurching and gibberish spurting goes only to show how much their god sucks at communication and dancing.
Of course they should be in charge of public school curricula and government.
Posted by: Christophe Thill | September 8, 2008 10:25 AM
The video is interesting. I've always wondered what it must have looked like when Franz Mesmer did his "magnetic bucket" thing with aristocratic ladies in Paris, or when Charcot did his demonstrations on hysteria at the Salpêtrière. Now I know a little bit more. I was just disappointed that the hypnotist, I mean, the pastor, didn't try some fun stuff on his guinea pigs... You know, "you're cold", "you're hot", "you're naked", "now strip off your clothes"...
Oh, and now I know where pogo comes from.
Posted by: Bachalon | September 8, 2008 10:25 AM
Do you think he'd acknowledge his original wording if asked? Did anyone save a picture of it?
Posted by: Ashley Moore | September 8, 2008 10:29 AM
"Respect the sanctity of life. Or Die!"
Honestly, how do _actual_ political satirists ever get any work in America, when these guys are doing it for free?
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 10:47 AM
The guy is not as kooky as people claim he is. The lunatic fringe fundies are into something called "spiritual warfare" and spend their time battling witches, warlocks, lifting generational curses, and imprecatary prayer. The latter is simply animistic witch craft, using god as a weapon to kill your enemies.
They even have a spiritual warfare ops center in Colorado complete with giant computers and dozens of large screens where they coordinate the worldwide battle against satan and his minions.
As weird as this sounds, Palin is in this far lunatic fringe of the Assembly of God cultists, she even uses their Destiny jargon of the Third wave/latter rain Joels Army faction.
Make no mistake. She is a wild eyed religious kook who is the least qualified to be VP of anyone in recent history. Her superficially attractive and engaging persona covers a vindictive and ruthless personality that has left a trail of bodies behind her.
All this is documented, public knowledge and is spreading throughout the infosphere. Whether the US voters care or not is another question. Got me.
In his own words. Palin is a member of a right wing far out cult who uses the codewords and jargon of Joels Army and Destiny Dominionists.
Posted by: David Utidjian | September 8, 2008 10:50 AM
Do people experience orgasms when they are all twitching like that? Has any one ever done study of what may be going on physically? or mentally? (not much???)
-DU-
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 10:51 AM
This relates to a slightly different sort of lunatic freakaloon, I suppose, but I've been catching up to coverage of the RNC and the Palin pick via various podcasts, and all you need to know about the McCain/Palin ticket is that it's apparently made Phyllis Freakin' Schlafly relevant in American politics again!
Posted by: Darth Wader | September 8, 2008 10:57 AM
"Oh, benevolent, merciful God. Please smite this individual I have a disagreement with."
"You want me to whack the guy?!"-God
Posted by: Evolving Squid | September 8, 2008 11:08 AM
Hardly...
Dan Quayle - better than a bulletproof vest for The Senior Shrub.
Dick Cheney - I'm not sure there's a comment sufficiently negative to do this one justice.
Al Gore - Inventing the internet since 1999... People (unfairly, IMO) blow sunshine up his arse now, but he was a grade-A doof as VP. http://www.gargaro.com/algore.html
Posted by: Richard Harris | September 8, 2008 11:08 AM
Raven, "Her superficially attractive and engaging persona..." Really?
I like a bit of totty just as much as the next man, but I don't like the look of Sarah Palin. Mind you, I don't like the sound of her, even more so. The loony nonsense that comes out of her mouth shows her to be a crazy person.
Posted by: PSITMOSAE | September 8, 2008 11:28 AM
Raven #16,
stop with your sexist and elitist attack of S.Palin !
Posted by: raytheist | September 8, 2008 11:30 AM
Funny #18. I have seen instructional videos on female orgasm techniques (for research only of course) and the women were twitching and writhing in much the same way. There is definitely a comparison to be made here.
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 11:31 AM
Studies show that people vote for people like themselves. Since the median IQ is 100, this is why we never get really smart people in power unless, like Bill Clinton, they come off as just average folk.
The norm for US politicians is an old, rich white guy in a suit with a bland personality. Palin with her white trash family, youth, and hockey mom energy seems to resonate with large segments of the US population.
What isn't the norm is her wild eyed religious kookery. Rapture Monkey Dominionists only make up between 7-20% of the population depending on which survey you read.
It is possible as people take a closer look at what she is, not what she looks like that her appeal will fade. But that is just a fond hope of mine and nothing to bank on. IMO, if she and McCain get in, it will be a not-so-long slide for the new Rome known as the US to the fall of the old Rome. I've never seen this country so close to the edge.
Posted by: cubefarmed | September 8, 2008 11:36 AM
Wow! That's... yeah. It reminds me that I was speculating the other night at my hubby that it wouldn't surprise me if an 'accident' was arranged for McCain should he win the election in order to put Palin in the big chair. (Since it's obvious the party likes her more. I mean, really.)
I know, I know... conspiracy theory. But geez.
Posted by: Norman Doering | September 8, 2008 11:36 AM
raven wrote:
Yes, and it seems to be working. According to the most recent USA Today/Gallup poll, McCain now has a 4-point lead over Obama:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080908/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc
Posted by: AustinDave | September 8, 2008 11:39 AM
The "Glory Zone"... isn't that what Larry Craig and his ilk are looking for?
Posted by: Sili | September 8, 2008 11:43 AM
Ooooooouuummmmmmmm lingalingalingalingalingalinga KILLI KILLI!!!
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 11:48 AM
Actually, this sounds more like a response to David (@17) than me (@18). My comment was about Phyllis Schlafly... and if I have to hold that name and the words female orgasm in the same thought, I think I'll be compelled to gouge my frontal lobe out. [shudder]
Posted by: Vinny | September 8, 2008 11:50 AM
Oh no. Those kooks are about 6 miles from here. I'm never going out again.
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 8, 2008 11:51 AM
Why do they do this? why?! It's a recent-ish thing. Churchill and FDR weren't elected because people say themselves in them. Or de Gaulle or Adenauer or Kennedy. Therefore it's a meme that can be fought! We need to use conversational intolerance on "I want to vote for people like me"Bartlett '08
Posted by: PZ Myers | September 8, 2008 11:52 AM
Wait..."instructional videos"? Is that the new euphemism? And where can I get copies (for educational purposes only, obviously)?
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 11:53 AM
Yeah, depressing isn't it? After 8 years of the Bushco disaster, one would expect McCain zombie and Palin religious kook to be polling 20-30%. Not seeing much reason to be optimistic here.
Where I used to live has a few survivalists. The people down the road had a "basement" that was really designed and built as a nuclear fallout shelter.
I always thought they were OK people but a bit weird. Now they don't seem so strange.
Posted by: Mike Doughney | September 8, 2008 11:54 AM
Having met Jay Rogers in the course of oppositional research, I can confirm that he is every bit as clueless in person as he is on his blog. I would suppose that you're witnessing the sort of arrested development often evident among heavy adolescent drug users who get converted during their college years, as Jay himself claims to have been. It's evident in the advocacy of action against other people without any basic understanding of the consequences of that kind of action. Advocating the death of an individual to advance his cause, as in his original post, is to him largely an intellectual pursuit. Confronting him with the eventual consequences of such acts was an exercise in futility.
Posted by: Moggie | September 8, 2008 11:56 AM
#16:
Haven't they heard of World of Warcraft? It's probably cheaper than tithing.
Posted by: kvinther | September 8, 2008 11:57 AM
AustinDave #27: Well, at one point in the video he says "Everybody becomes a catcher, hallelujah!" "That word-- I do not think it means what you think it means" -- I. Montoya
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 8, 2008 12:01 PM
The Glory Zone huh?
So that's what they're calling it these days.
I've anointed a few Glory Zones in my time. Mostly in college.
Posted by: RamblinDude | September 8, 2008 12:01 PM
I want to establish "The Church of Revealed Scientific Glossolalia."
Quantumelectrodynamicsparticleaccelerator!!
Colloidalnucleoprotoplasmicsuspension
Homologouschromosome!!
Muoncharmtauonneutrinoquark!!
Sciencesciencsciencesciencesciencesciencescience!!!
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 12:04 PM
Threatening to assassinate a presidential candidate with a supernaturally based weapon would seem to be illegal. Perhaps Homeland Security might want to have a word with him about advocating murder?
Probably not. There is a clear threat there but its credibility is dubious.
If calling up spirits with magic spells and hurling them at one's enemies worked, Clinton, Bush, Gore, Kennedy and so on would have long since been vaporized.
Posted by: Snitzels | September 8, 2008 12:04 PM
Nah, just proof that men can fake them too! ;) I'd love to go to one of these and just go absolutely loony and see what the reaction would be. Chances are good they'd applaud.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 12:07 PM
Odd, considering that all the reporting is that McCain really wanted Joe LIEberman, until "they" told him he couldn't do that. You have to wonder what logic — other than I'll do any frickin' thing to get elected — could possibly embrace both a liberal observant Jew from New England (aside: despite the gnashing of liberal teeth [including my own] in CT, LIEberman is unquestionably a liberal by Republican standards, at least on every issue except Iraq) and an extreme right-wing small-state governor from the least typical state in the nation? I haven't heard anyone in the media even pose, much less answer this question.
Another question I haven't heard any of the pundits (except for the luminous Rachel Maddow) discuss is this: If John McCain is, in LIEberman's words from his despicable RNC speech, "his own man," who is it behind the scenes who can dictate his choice of running mate? And will these same unseen hands dictate cabinet and judiciary appointments? This whole episode makes McCain look like a "maverick" on a pretty short leash to the existing party power structure, and I wonder when we're going to hear some analysis on that point.
Posted by: Rick Schauer | September 8, 2008 12:08 PM
Simply look at the behavior. What would make one act like that? Reminds me of people overdosing on drugs or alcohol...and these people are sober?
Isn't it time for health care professionals to look into the frequency, intensity and duration of these behavior characteristics to determione if they are healthy?
Sheesh, if gawd is doing that to you...run the other way!
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 12:15 PM
No mystery or secret there. McCain had never even met Palin before she was picked and barely knew who she was. Dobson and Perkins from Focus on Overthrowing the Government are known to have made the choice and handed it to McCain.
Posted by: George | September 8, 2008 12:17 PM
If as appears to be the case the US is on the verge of being taken over by religous extremists working to bring about the end of the world, you know global nuclear annihilation and all that, dont you think we should devote the next two months entirely to the business of doing whatever is necessary to prevent such outcome. I mean how can anyone apart from the rapture ready actually contemplate voting McCain/Palin. So here is my simple question. If Palin becomes Pres during McCains first term, what are the chances of any of us being alive in 2012 ?
Because your nation possess close on half the weapons in the World, your problems becomes mine and every one elses. Please is it really as bad as it seems from here (UK) and if it is why the hell are you wasting a moment on distractions. Every post on every thread on the internet should be brought up on this subject. Have you got it, the end of the world, literally the end of the world, is nigh. Not because it is some fantasy gods will but because you have been distracted whilst the true believers joyfully reify their interpretation of the book of revelation.
Or am I mistaken in the impression that Jesus's army is about to march. In six months time, whoever is president, will it be business as usual with a cabinet of reasonably capable people. And whatever their policies, will armageddon be something to avoid or something to be desired?
Posted by: negentropyeater | September 8, 2008 12:24 PM
Norman,
And Rasmussen shows a 1 point lead only for the same polling period:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
All this is very well known and is called a convention bounce, always observed every presidential election. Obama enjoyed a similar bounce right after the DNC.
This just points to the methodological flaw of polling in the days right after a convention (including a weekend which is even worse for predictability), when people answering the phone have only heard of one side for the last 5 days.
You'll have to wait at least a week to get an idea if the McPalin strategy is really working.
Posted by: Doris Tracey | September 8, 2008 12:27 PM
Sarah Palin is a lovely woman and is trying to uphold the constitution. The elite liberals are using McCain and Obama as pawns. Liberalists are nothing but socialist,which is communism. Lennon stated that Liberals are useful idiots. Our country is so divided that it would take a miracle to unite us again. You cannot force change in anyone, people must unfold gradually. We must unite or perish. There is nothing wrong with being a free thinker, but people have been enslaved for so long by the elite that right seems wrong and wrong seems right. The New World Order was created by the Lucifarian elites and they plan to enslave us all and destroy the middle class and control totally the poor, which the middle class in their eyes will become also.
Posted by: raven | September 8, 2008 12:29 PM
They've already gone down a lot. There is something drastically wrong as shown by the fact that Palin got chosen much less that McCain/Palin are now polling as well as or better than Obama.
If they get elected, your chances for survival go down even further.
We are doing as much as we can. But 300 million lemmings is a lot of momentum.
This has to be the lowest point for the USA in my lifetime. And for those overseas, you can't imagine what it looks like from inside the USA. Read the headlines, two of the largest financial institutions in the world, Fannie and Freddie just collapsed today.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 12:33 PM
Ah, if only!
But do you really think that, in nofictional America, a candidate like Bartlet — patrician New England liberal, descendant of signers of the Declaration, son of the headmaster of an elite private academy, eminent scholar and Nobel laureate before seeking office — could actually get elected president?
Well, I hope so, because Obama, while he's obviously not an old-money white guy, resembles Bartlet far more than he resembles flyboy McCain or moose-killer Palin.
It's worth noting, BTW, that like Bartlet, Obama is not as liberal as his right-wing opponents paint him, but more liberal than his critics on the left give him credit for. Jus' sayin'....
Posted by: Darth Wader | September 8, 2008 12:38 PM
What ever your on, your doctor should increase the dose, also I believe it was Lenin not Lennon.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 12:41 PM
OK, by show of hands, who thinks "Lennon" is Poe's Wink? Who thinks it's just typical right-wing ignorance?
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | September 8, 2008 12:44 PM
We have a winner! Most consecutive non-sequiturs in a single comment goes to...Doris Tracey!!!!(By the way, Lennon actually stated that "all you need is love." Also, "goo-goo-goo-joob.")
Posted by: hagsrus | September 8, 2008 12:46 PM
Come on, please, that's a parody site!
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | September 8, 2008 12:47 PM
Surely you mean crashboy McCain?
Posted by: chgo_liz | September 8, 2008 12:47 PM
George @44:
Believe me, a lot of us share your concern. I think we do need to take this very VERY seriously. Promoting scientific knowledge isn't going to matter much for the future if we're all blown up before then.
My personal favorite comment by the one/first responder to the above wacko blog post is the idea that we spend 2 hours in our basements every day studying a thesaurus. They're not just afraid of science education...they're afraid of education ENTIRELY. Someone who knows how to write a proper sentence and use multi-syllabic words is a dangerous bogeyman to them.
It's like trying to defend yourself against someone who is hopped up on PCP. They're too irrational: ready and willing to lash out violently because of the toxic ideas in their heads.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 12:53 PM
Now, now... Thou Shalt Not question the service record of War Heroes™!
But since you bring it up, do we have any actual evidence regarding whether Palin is actually a competent moose hunter?
Posted by: dNorrisM | September 8, 2008 12:54 PM
I vote Poe for just that reason, BD. Actually the gain on my Poe detector is too high- I thought nn cltr was a Poe until I read David Brock's excellent book: Blinded by the Right
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | September 8, 2008 12:58 PM
Here's the kind of hunter Sarah Palin is.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 1:10 PM
Thanks for the link. Grr.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 1:12 PM
That article also makes clear how little respect for science she has.
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 8, 2008 1:21 PM
"See, this deformity is what happens when an area has no good dance clubs."
On the other hand, I think we might have found some good footage for Fatboy Slim's next video.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 1:42 PM
I wonder if that's the person I saw this weekend at the CT statewide rally for Obama, mutely protesting the fact that hotdogs and hamburgers were being served.
Folks who can't make a moral distinction between the aerial slaughter of wolves on the one hand and hotdogs on the other forfeit, IMHO, every shred of their credibility.
Posted by: uncle frogy | September 8, 2008 1:44 PM
I made the mistake of following the first link in the post and read that post on forerunner.
the thing that came to mind was "Timothy McVeigh"
I do not expect a "fair" election. With this kind of polarized political state and this much irrationality rampant how could anyone think we could avoid some kind of trouble. We sure did not transition peacefully to full civil rights in the 60's, a case could be made that we still haven't yet!
kind of a dark way to start my day but face to face with reality anyway.
Posted by: r0land | September 8, 2008 1:48 PM
The woman shaking their hair should learn how to bang their hads properly.
Now an experiment:
Take the video holy ghost power video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_eA9INAYcE , mute the sound and play it with the music from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evwYrhj-bcI instead.
Disclaimer: Yes I know that satanists or whatever dummi burger claim to be are equally stupid. But it is fun to bang your head once in a while.
Posted by: hje | September 8, 2008 1:51 PM
Let's just hope some kook doesn't decide to speed things up with an IED. We've been fortunate not to have politically motivated assassinations in the US in a long time, and I'd like to keep it that way, no matter who is running.
That Joel's Army post last week makes you wonder about the mindset of some of these so-called Christians.
Posted by: Jag | September 8, 2008 1:54 PM
Doris Tracey (#46),
Please enlighten me as to how I can break free from the all powerful control of the "Lucifarian elites".
I tried Jesus and he wanted 10% tithing and I had to sacrifice my only son. Mohammed promised me 72 virgins, but I had to strap some c4 to my ass and blow up some innocent children.
All I have left is free thinking and the brain evolution gave me, so I would appreciate some guidance.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 2:00 PM
Strikes me as kind of extreme. It seems she's a vegan, and she could be protesting the conditions under which the animals from which hotdogs are made are kept or the cruelty with which they're treated. I don't understand what you mean by failing to make a moral distinction, as they're two different questions, and I also don't see why her opposition to meat consumption with all that entails today in the US would make her lose "every shred of credibility" either entirely or on the matter of Palin's record.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 2:03 PM
Bill,
If animals were shot from the air to make hotdogs would you be opposed?
Posted by: Brownian, OM | September 8, 2008 2:27 PM
Why add the 'so-called' adjective to Christians, hje? Doing so only fuels the self-serving myth that Christianity praises peace and love above all else and that such fanatics are somehow contrary to the true spirit of Christmas, or whatever. It may be true that members of Joel's Army are part of the lunatic fringe among Christians, but there's nothing 'so-called' about that. To analogise, Canada is said to be founded on the principles of peace, order and good government (POGG), but that doesn't make professional asshole and right-wing douchebag Ezra Levant a 'so-called' Canadian.
Stop feeding the True Christian™ myth.
Posted by: Tim | September 8, 2008 2:32 PM
Pity she can't be time-shifted back to the 12th century, where they knew how to deal with twitching, gibbering heretics.
Posted by: StuV | September 8, 2008 2:33 PM
If animals were shot from the air to make hotdogs would you be opposed?
Not if you're a good shot.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 2:34 PM
It's possible; some of my opinions are. But...
...I find being a vegan kind of extreme, if it's presented as anything more than a simple dietary preference. I do not think (though obviously YMMV) it's immoral to eat meat (nor to use nonhuman animals in the many ways humans do), although I do think it's wrong to be unnecessarily cruel in the process. I'm open to critiques of cruelty in the meat industry, but they need to be a bit more specific than just pointing disapprovingly at the hotdog server.
In this case, the person in question was standing silently, holding a hand-lettered sign that seemed to say there's no difference between Obama and Palin, because some of the former's supporters eat meat, on the one hand, and the other champions the least sporting forms of hunting, on the other hand. I'll at least listen to either argument; suggesting they're the same loses me. The problem I have is not that I disagree with the person's position (though in this case, I do), but that the lack of intellectual granularity makes it impossible to address it intelligently.
Good question. Are there black helicopters hovering over your local pig farm? ;^)
Seriously, I probably shouldn't really have chimed in, because I'm neither a hunter nor an animal rights activist. I'd describe my position on animal rights as aggressively moderate, and in any case, I think the issue is waaaaaay down on the priority list for this election.
That said, the fact that Palin supports a form of "hunting" that (if I understand correctly) even most sport hunters find disgusting is part of a larger picture of someone whose values are way out of the American mainstream... even as she's trying to pretend she's quintessentially mainstream. (Or is "quintessentially" one of those elitist words?)
OT PS: As I type this, I'm listening to the podcast of this weekend's Wait, Wait! Don't Tell Me!, and Paula Poundstone is killing by bringing (fictional) examples of "qualified" women passed over in favor of Palin!
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | September 8, 2008 2:41 PM
I support shooting pigs from the air with hotdogs. As a competitive sport.
The Tubesteak Biathlon, coming soon to an Olympiad near you.
Posted by: StuV | September 8, 2008 2:47 PM
The Tubesteak Biathlon
Isn't that a side event at the Gay Pride Parade?
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 2:53 PM
Damn! Your rejoinder was way funnier than mine! Good thing I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read that.
I had been wondering where I could find a package of Tundra Tubesteaks™, made from 100% air-killed Alaskan wolfmeat.
Posted by: RamblinDude | September 8, 2008 2:54 PM
It may be true that members of Joel's Army are part of the lunatic fringe among Christians, but there's nothing 'so-called' about that.
When Palin's extreme religiosity comes out it probably won't have that much of an impact on religious voters. What we call "lunatic fringe" is seen by most Christians as simply being a bit more enthusiastic for Jesus. And with Armageddon approaching, well, maybe that's just a darn good thing. Better to err on the side of caution, after all...
Palin is charismatic, congenial, religious and photogenic--all the qualities American voters look for.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 2:56 PM
Bill,
I don't think we're in disagreement (if the woman you saw is in fact the same one quoted in the article). But I struggle with this. I'm not a vegetarian (although I haven't eaten red meat since I was a child), but I've read Fast-Food Nation, The Omnivore's Dilemma, etc., and other books and know about CAFOs and the cruelty of the whole thing. I feel like a bigtime hypocrite. :(
By the way, I don't know anything about your daughter, but I've been meaning to mention that she might be interested in the Yale Sustainable Food Project:
http://www.yale.edu/sustainablefood/
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 3:18 PM
Notwithstanding the flippancy of some of my comments here, I struggle with it, too. My gut tells me there's a difference between people and not-people, and that that difference makes it morally acceptable for us to use animals (none of whom seem like people to me, despite all the anthropomorphosis we tend to do) for food, clothing, transport, etc.
But sometimes I have a hard time getting my head where my gut is. Happily (he said, with an ironic twist), there are so many other more urgent problems in the world that I'm not often forced to wrestle with this one.
Thanks for the pointer. We knew about this program (though we haven't yet toured the Farm). It's not the sort of thing I would've thought my daughter would normally be interested in... but then, she's never been interested in sports, either, and I just learned she's signed up for two intramurals (volleyball and table tennis). So you never know....
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 3:27 PM
Er...no comment. :)
Hope she's enjoying college life.
Posted by: Steve | September 8, 2008 3:29 PM
On second look... Are these people having ORGASMS???
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 3:33 PM
Hmmm... did you watch any of the Olympic table tennis? ;^) But your reaction is why I made sure to also mention volleyball, which is reasonably athletic even at the purely recreational level.
We're only a week in, and it's a pretty jarring transition for an (I must confess, pretty pampered) only child... but I have absolute faith that she's going to enjoy it.
Posted by: SC | September 8, 2008 3:49 PM
I'm sure she'll do great.
Hmmm... did you watch any of the Olympic table tennis?
At that level it does take on more qualities of a sport. I tend to exclude from that category anything I can play reasonably well while drinking.
I guess I do have a prejudice. It reminds me of when I was a kid and my parents became friends with the parents of a friend of mine. My father, a tremendous athlete, was talking about sports and my friend's father said something about how he too was athletic and had won some local table-tennis tournament. My father would tell this story at events with the extended - extremely sporty - family, and everyone would laugh and laugh.
Not that I don't love table tennis. Of course, it's no air hockey...
Posted by: bernard quatermass | September 8, 2008 4:05 PM
"My gut tells me there's a difference between people and not-people, and that that difference makes it morally acceptable for us to use animals (none of whom seem like people to me, despite all the anthropomorphosis we tend to do) for food, clothing, transport, etc."
I can go with you on "there's a difference between" since that's pretty obvious, but making the leap to "that difference makes it morally acceptable" is something I have not been able to do for a long time.
Of course, I have to point out that I would also put "transport" in a different category from "food, clothing" and so on. Plus many species use us for transport. :)
I am not exactly trying to start an argument with you -- as you point out, YMMV -- but I have to say I do have a certain level of skepticism about anything the "gut" says. I have always felt that it is the "gut" (with which term, to show my hand, I conflate the id or lizard-y brain and what is traditionally known as the "heart") that causes all the trouble, but maybe it is because a certain president relies on it in such a famously exclusive fashion ...?
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 4:23 PM
I understand the skepticism; it's sort of what my comment was about. In this case, I think what I'm calling "gut" is a philosophical position I just haven't been able to clearly articulate yet, as opposed to "the monsters of the id"... but of course, until I am able to articulate it, I can prove no such thing.
In the meantime, somehow I manage to continue enjoying the occasional medium-rare steak or plate full of bacon. It's the second time in the last week I've paraphrased this song, but "if lovin' [meat] is wrong, I don' wanna' be right...."
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 4:27 PM
You need better opponents. Or maybe not: It's entirely possible — almost certain, in fact — that undisturbed drinking is more important than being able to call yourself an athlete!
Posted by: pradeep | September 8, 2008 4:27 PM
The video starts off with "Glory Zone Encounters". That's interesting. ;)
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 8, 2008 4:35 PM
Well, maybe... but if it's true that "meat is murder," I think it follows pretty closely that using animals for transport (or owning them as pets) is "slavery"... and being "merely" a slaveholder but not a murderer would be of little comfort to me.
I actually don't feel like either... but as I've said, I can't yet construct an airtight intellectual case in my defense.
Posted by: John Pieret |