…and this is a 
Terror attack on US soil
Category: Evil
Posted on: September 30, 2008 12:15 AM, by PZ Myers
Only, of course, it won't be called an act of terrorism because the victims were Muslim, and the perpetrators were conservative white Americans. They sprayed gas into a mosque filled with kids.
On Friday, September 26, the end of a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West -- the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail -- were distributed by mail in Ohio, a "chemical irritant" was sprayed through a window of the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton, where 300 people were gathered for a Ramadan prayer service. The room that the chemical was sprayed into was the room where babies and children were being kept while their mothers were engaged in prayers. This, apparently, is what the scare tactic political campaigning of John McCain's supporters has led to -- Americans perpetrating a terrorist attack against innocent children on American soil.
Common decency would suggest that babies should not be targeted. These are people who lack decency, I'm afraid.
Comments
Posted by: David D.G. | September 30, 2008 12:20 AM
This crime is a vile outrage, no matter who did it or why. I hope that law enforcement finds the perpetrators promptly and throws the book at them.
~David D.G.
Posted by: Michael Kremer | September 30, 2008 12:21 AM
I don't always agree with you -- but here, right on.
Posted by: Sauve | September 30, 2008 12:21 AM
Sad..
Posted by: Coturnix | September 30, 2008 12:24 AM
Melissa puts it well with additional examples that will not be counted.
Posted by: Brian English | September 30, 2008 12:26 AM
Common decency would suggest that babies should not be targeted. These are people who lack decency, I'm afraid. I don't think anybody should be targeted with gas. Common decency or no.
Posted by: Eli | September 30, 2008 12:27 AM
That's fucking insane. No matter how ridiculous religion is, or how hostile some of its adherents may be, there is absolutely no reason to target innocent members... especially children. I hope they find the guy(s) who did this.
Posted by: Jadehawk | September 30, 2008 12:27 AM
how very messed up, but I bet it won't get much mention, for one because it wasn't Christians being attacked, and for another because no one was seriously hurt. from the news I'm gathering 2 people were sent to the hospital, but it isn't life-threatening.
watch the story devolve into "just some unruly kids" and "those Muslim are so oversensitive"
Posted by: Jadehawk | September 30, 2008 12:33 AM
ah, I was right. there you go,
it wasn't a hate-crime at all
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 12:37 AM
what...the...fuck...
Posted by: Michael from Idaho | September 30, 2008 12:39 AM
From the article...
"The men didn't say anything to her (before she was sprayed)," Biehl said. "There was nothing left at the scene or anything that makes us believe this is a biased crime."
So... since they didn't say "All Muslims should die!" or "Baby Jesus told me to do this!" or other blatant demonstration of hate/stupidity it's not a hate crime? Do people in Dayton always go randomly shooting noxious chemicals at people through open windows? I'm confused...
Posted by: qedpro | September 30, 2008 12:42 AM
how come we're only hearing about this now?
WTF?
This should have been all over the #$%^& news!!!
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 12:43 AM
5 bucks says one of the Donowhores either posts on a thread or writes an email within the next week comparing this to crackergate.
the wording will be something extremely stupid like:
"see? when people spray gas at muslims, you get all upset, but you're more than happy to poke jesus in the eye with a rusty nail and toss him in your trash can!"
any takers?
Posted by: Patricia | September 30, 2008 12:44 AM
I think this is the DVD that was distributed through the Oregonian! I saw a blurb about it on the Channel 8 News.
To the credit of Oregonians, there was a protest in Portland and a demand for an apology.
Christian fucks. Where is their 'every life is sacred' creed now?
Thou shalt not kill.
Posted by: S.Scott | September 30, 2008 12:45 AM
AAaauurrgghh!! How come we are just hearing about this now? I've had the news on all weekend!! As a matter of fact - I still haven't "heard" anything.
Fucking assholes.
Posted by: ambulocetus | September 30, 2008 12:45 AM
Just the latest sign that liberals and atheists are increasingly in danger. Wing-nuts have a tenuous hold on reality as it is, and it will only get worse. I have come to a decision. My friends keep asking why I don't teach martial arts. I tell them I don't want be a babysitter or help soccer moms prevent arthritis, but I will now teach, free of charge, to any atheists in the Chicago/Gary area. Contact me through youtube.
Posted by: JohnnieCanuck, FCD | September 30, 2008 12:49 AM
My prediction is that someone will claim this was done by a Muslim activist, trying to make Christians look bad.
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 12:52 AM
Not now that you've done half the work for him. FFS, don't give Donohue any idea. Give him an inch and he'll drain your blood.Posted by: woodstein312 | September 30, 2008 12:53 AM
This is appalling. I don't care to what beliefs you subscribe, violence is violence... and violence against children is unforgiveable.
I didn't know about the DVD -- since I live way out here in the CNMI --- but sounds like it ranks somewhere up there with the Willie Horton advertisement that scared so many voters senseless a few elections back. Fear-mongering: it's shameful that anyone does it and even more shameful that it works.
Posted by: Monado | September 30, 2008 12:55 AM
Gasp! This.... this -- this is worse than dissing a cracker!
Sometimes people are hateful. I hope that the terrorists are caught and punished.
Posted by: Dahan | September 30, 2008 12:58 AM
My 2c and I'm out. If this sort of thing doesn't make the bile rise in your throat, if it doesn't make you fear for our survival as a race, if you aren't mad as hell that this sort of shit is tolerated in the 21st Century, you need to take a long look at your life.
ambulocetus, would that include quiet atheists/agnostics? I've got a friend that lives in your neck of the woods who could use a little help.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:02 AM
Thou shalt not kill.
of course. that's why they used an "irritant" instead of nerve gas.
;)
honestly, my first reaction is that this is some sort of political stunt. recall what the little girl said about the two men saying absolutely nothing?
If someone wanted to cause damage, they most certainly could have done far worse, and why be totally silent about it? Why use some relatively untraceable chemical (note that the report on the official investigation said there were no traces of things like tear gas)?
Something stinks about this, and I don't just mean the gas.
I'm sure this was a real attack, but I just can't figure out what the motive behind it would really be.
or maybe I've just seen too many detective shows on TV.
Posted by: Katharine | September 30, 2008 1:05 AM
There is apparently a website of idiots on the internet which is begging to be debunked.
www.atheismsfallacies.com is full of stupid.
Posted by: Conservationist | September 30, 2008 1:10 AM
Um... this has nothing to do with John McCain.
The group that distributed the video is a pro-Israel lobby that is ALSO pro-McCain, but it's a fallacy to connect him to this or to the video itself.
Is anyone even paying attention to logic anymore? Oh well: when America collapses into tyranny, it'll be funny to watch those who helped destroy it face what they created.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:11 AM
Oh well: when America collapses into tyranny, it'll be funny to watch those who helped destroy it face what they created.
have you looked in a mirror today?
Posted by: Natasha Yar-Routh | September 30, 2008 1:19 AM
I heard about this on Democracy Now this morning and was appalled but not surprised. As we in the queer community know preach hate at a target group long enough and loud enough and you will get violence. With that vile DVD floating around I just hope something worse doesn't happen.
Posted by: Janus | September 30, 2008 1:19 AM
Obsession is actually a well researched and perfectly accurate documentary. Can you call something "fear-mongering" when it tells nothing but the truth?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:20 AM
Obsession is actually a well researched and perfectly accurate documentary.
would you care to document the truths you found in it for us?
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 30, 2008 1:29 AM
Umm... It's already happened there, cowboy. What did you think happened with the signing of the Patriot Act. Have you been to an airport lately? And, what about the near endless cries of "Executive Privilege" from the Chimp in Chief and his cronies?
Sorry. We're already living in a tyranny, and you fucktards helped create it with the incessant erosion of our rights to protect America's Little Tyrant so that he may live to puke out his little threats every fucking day.
Personally, when I read stories like the ones PZ is talking about, I honestly think that maybe America does deserve the bombs we seem to be encouraging people to drop on us. We are a nation of cowards giving free reign to a lackwitted egomaniac who doesn't have the mental acumen required to operate a fucking bag of pretzels without being lethally challenged, and yet some idiots out there think he's capable of running a country?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:32 AM
doesn't have the mental acumen required to operate a fucking bag of pretzels
LOL
nice.
good thing I have a waterproof keyboard.
Posted by: BMcP | September 30, 2008 1:36 AM
I am surprised that an anti-religion DVD like Obsession would be seen negatively here to be honest. I received a copy, I haven't watch it yet though I cannot say exactly what is on it but it seems anti-Islam, which in itself doesn't bug me, I have no use for Islam whatever, to me it is a decedent belief at best.
That begin said, attacking people inside a mosque should is a terroristic crime and those found guilty should be punished severely.
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 1:38 AM
Just that promoter is in a political organistation that's only goal is to see Obama defeated and the movie being distributed in swing states when there's rumours going around of Obama being a muslim, it doesn't mean there's anything to connect.Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:41 AM
some idiots out there think he's capable of running a country?
I'm assuming those would be the same idiots that think Sarah Palin can do the same?
why does she have to have the last name Palin, anyway. Since someone has already done the "Michael Palin for President" thing , it just makes it so I have to use her full name instead of just the last.
Or maybe I'll just take the advice offered earlier and just start calling her Bible Spice.
crap, that's still two words.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:43 AM
I am surprised that an anti-religion DVD like Obsession would be seen negatively here to be honest. I received a copy, I haven't watch it yet though
*headdesk*
Posted by: hje | September 30, 2008 1:51 AM
Onward to Kristallnacht. History repeats itself. Who's the next target for the new jack-booted fascists?
1. Muslims.
2. Atheists, agnostics, and heretics.
3. Teh Gays.
4. Jews (those not for Jesus).
5. Any Democrat and all liberal Republicans.
6. Elitist college professors, especially Darwinists.
7. Immigrants, legal or not.
8. Anyone not white, Protestant, and of European origin.
9. Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Episcopalians, Buddhists, etc. (those "non-Christians"--plus all those fake Christian, see Ray Comfort).
10. People who reads books, especially those bad books (see S. Palin).
11. People who wear glasses (excepting S. Palin, but see Khmer Rouge).
OK, the last one might be a stretch, but just listen to conservative talk radio for a few hours--if you can bear it. Or watch Glenn Beck for an hour (if you can stomach it). Something evil comes this way.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 1:53 AM
do I have to pick only one?
Posted by: Grammar RWA | September 30, 2008 1:54 AM
Please call the Dayton police department and tell them to quit bullshitting and treat this as a hate crime. It's dishonest for them to pretend it's anything but. This is a non-dispatch number: 937-333-1311
Then call the mayor's office and tell them the same thing. Ask for a substantial reward to be offered for any information leading to a conviction. 937-333-3636
Posted by: Kobra | September 30, 2008 2:09 AM
I know a lot of liberals don't support the death penalty, but do you think we could negotiate that with the people responsible for this one? Or maybe just have a vigilante put a .22 to their heads? No? Okay, just throwing that out there.
In all seriousness, it's absolutely atrocious that anyone would target children. These jerk-offs deserve about as much respect as pedophiles.
Posted by: craig | September 30, 2008 2:28 AM
Speaking of airports, I was "randomly selected" for a full screening at the airport the other day for a domestic flight. Wand waved over me, physically patted down, the bare soles of my feet (sandals removed) examined, and over a half our of watching them remove and examine in detail every single item in my baggage. Prescriptions. A little soapstone carving. Dirty clothes searched, clean clothes searched, their pockets checked, books flipped through, etc. They went through my stuff with a fine-toothed comb. Surprising that they didn't turn on my laptop and search the hard drive.
Almost missed my flight it took so long.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 2:31 AM
Surprising that they didn't turn on my laptop and search the hard drive.
me too, considering that's where you had the bomb hidden.
oops, I've said too much.
:P
Posted by: hje | September 30, 2008 2:40 AM
I too was "randomly selected" for a full screening. I thought I was in trouble for sure because I had a foot long "garden ant" sculpture made of rocks and twisted wire in my carry-on bag (to make sure it didn't get bent). Oddly not much interest from them for the ant, not anywhere as near as much as the 1 oz. container of prescription cream that I had to treat poison ivy--it was not in a clear plastic bag!!! The screener kept yelling the words "clear plastic bag!!!" at me until I was cleared.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 2:45 AM
The screener kept yelling the words "clear plastic bag!!!" at me until I was cleared.
Gees. I'll make sure to remember to bring a pocketful of clear plastic bags when next I fly.
...maybe start randomly handing them to people waiting to be screened.
Posted by: Scott M | September 30, 2008 2:49 AM
Good grief. Five will get you ten that the idiots that did this believe that they accomplished a good end.
For the record: Obsession is not particularly popular around here. It paints an entire religion with a brush covered by the paint of the few fanatics. I'm all for criticizing a religions, any religion, and the idiotic policies that come from them. But Obsession has one purpose: To incite hate. The kind of hate that led to this...madness.
Posted by: Grammar RWA | September 30, 2008 2:50 AM
We can put the pressure on the Dayton police through the Dayton Daily News, too. Ask for a reward to be offered.
Email for short blurbs, ~30 words: speakup@daytondailynews.com
Email for letters to the editor, you need to include name, address and phone number: edletter@daytondailynews.com
Posted by: InTheImageOfDNA | September 30, 2008 3:14 AM
@Katherine #22
That site you mention is a cut and paste job from carm.org. Compare http://www.atheismsfallacies.com/viable.html to http://www.carm.org/atheism/viable.htm
I took a few minutes to look around their site and found one outright lie where they claim to not be Christians (but they cut and paste from carm.org), a grammatical error on their homepage that has a copyright date from 2006: "They [Atheists] take every opportunity to verbally abuse and persecuting people of religion - especially Christians", a wild claim http://www.atheismsfallacies.com/about.html about having an atheist stalker who is serving jail time (no documentation, big surprise there), and a video juxtaposing death and destruction war scenes with atheism.
It is the usual ad hominem moronic drivel spewed forth from simple minds, not even worthy of the time it would take to debunk their retardation.
Posted by: Scrabcake | September 30, 2008 3:18 AM
This is outrageous. This should be on the front page of google news...why are people not raising hell about this?
Posted by: Buzz Buzz | September 30, 2008 3:27 AM
"Common decency would suggest that babies should not be targeted. These are people who lack decency, I'm afraid."
What? No! Haven't you heard? God gives them their values directly. Trust me, they've told me so on numerous occasions.
Posted by: Sleeping at the Console | September 30, 2008 3:27 AM
@ #32
"Bible Spice", I have to remember that one.
Posted by: scooter | September 30, 2008 3:33 AM
I dunno.
I agree with the skeptics at this point, very conflicting reports, and the emphasis on the babies and children always sets off my bullshit radar like a stink bomb in a Mosque.
As far as this being blowback from anti-muslim propaganda, it reminds me of the lethal attack on the Unitarians recently, when the they found books by Michael Savage OReilly et.el. in the murderers home, all screeds against liberals.
If anybody can site that the DVD distribution was paid for by a pro Israeli organization, that would be useful, names and so forth.
It's no reason to stop the presses as pro Israeli orgs tend to look down on Islam, but AIPAC and their like tend to throw their money to the Dems, so it's an interesting shift.
Thanks
Posted by: Nasikabatrachus | September 30, 2008 3:37 AM
I'm as appalled at these actions as everyone else, and have no problem with the idea that it was a couple of white republicans hopped up on propaganda that did this, but the conclusions that have been reached by some don't seem to be supported by what evidence is available. Was it white, christian republicans who did this? It seems likely, but I don't see any details about their race in any of the stories about it. Was it inspired by 'Obsession'? Maybe, but the link at this point is speculative. For all we know, it was just a couple of sociopaths out for a sick thrill. Maybe they are members of the KKK and they've been planning it for months.
We might want to speculate wildly and finger our favorite boogey men (and I include myself here) but it's just punching at the air.
Posted by: woodstein312 | September 30, 2008 3:42 AM
@ 26 "Can you call something "fear-mongering" when it tells nothing but the truth?"
Let's see, can we label a video that -- I'm told -- paints muslims as terrorists "fear-mongering"?
Yes, yes we can.
Whether or not some muslims are terrorists is irrelevant. When you craft a film to paint all or most of them as such in a bid to influence the way people think, to play on their fears... yeah, I'm pretty sure that's not far from the dictionary definition of fear-mongering (if there is one).
I say all this, of course, having no real affection for Islam or any religion but a general dislike of anyone trying incite the mob to this kind of behavior.
Posted by: BrainFromArous | September 30, 2008 3:42 AM
Question Time...
(1) Does anyone have any hard facts on this attack beyond what the local Dayton news sources report?
All I found from the news article linked was
*****
Someone "sprayed an irritant into the mosque," Dayton fire District Chief Vince Wiley said, noting that fire investigators believe it was a hand-held spray can.
According to fire dispatch communications, a child reported seeing two men with a white can spraying something into a window. That child was brought to the supervising firefighter at the scene.
Wiley would not discuss that report, but said the investigation has been turned over to police. Police were not commenting.
*****
(2) PZ wrote "the perpetrators were conservative, White Americans."
Do we know this for a fact? Have the police detained suspects? Has the primary witness (a young girl) said anything else?
(3) The Daily Kos piece makes much about the attack occurring after the release of the Obsession film. Is there any actual link established here or is this a Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc statement?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 3:46 AM
@scooter, and totally OT.
nice to meet and chat with you in LA.
hope you liked the pic I snapped of you.
cheers.
Posted by: BobC | September 30, 2008 3:52 AM
Gassing children and babies? I bet they were Christians. Whoever they were, they need to go to prison.
This is probably not politically correct, but I wish the Muslims living in America would go back to the dirtbag countries they came from. Whenever I hear the word 'Muslim' all I can think about is people being burned alive, or jumping out of windows and exploding when they hit the sidewalk, or somebody slowly getting his head cut off with a small sharp knife, screaming until his head is almost completely separated from the rest of his body (I unfortunately saw a video of this). If the Muslims left, I don't think anyone would miss them.
Before anyone says 'Most Muslims are moderate' I would like to know what is moderate about being a member of a religion that is responsible for 100% of the daily suicide bombings in this world. Anyone with any common sense at all would not want to be a part of a religion that is infested with thousands of insane terrorists.
Posted by: amk | September 30, 2008 4:00 AM
Haven't you been banned yet?
You've never heard of the Tamil Tigers then. Also, read this.
Posted by: jadehawk | September 30, 2008 4:02 AM
...and Germans are responsible for 100% of gassed jews. should we be passionately shun and vilify Germans, while we're at it?
seriously. religion, just like every other fanatic -ism out there is a nightmare that fucks with people's heads and makes them do horrible things. that doesn't mean that every member of an -ism is inherently an evil person. it's a brainwash, they need to be un-brainwashed (what do you call that...?), not attacked or "sent back where they came from".
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:05 AM
This is probably not politically correct, but I wish the Muslims living in America would go back to the dirtbag countries they came from.
we've uh, kinda gotten that message loud and clear from you for a while now, bobbo.
some personal issue you wish to share with the class?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:06 AM
Also, read this.
bookmarked.
thanks.
Posted by: DangerAardvark | September 30, 2008 4:17 AM
Why is this automatically a hate crime, and automatically a result of that dumb DVD? You people act like that's not even up for debate. I haven't watched the DVD, but unless it was an unambiguous and direct incitement to violence, then the link is completely fallacious and thus protected by the first amendment.
Posted by: craig | September 30, 2008 4:25 AM
"I haven't watched the DVD, but unless it was an unambiguous and direct incitement to violence, then the link is completely fallacious and thus protected by the first amendment."
Uh, no.
The link may be fallacious... if the person who did this has not watched the DVD or was not inspired by it. If they DID watch the DVD and were inspired by it, yet the DVD contains no direct incitement to violence, then it is protected by the first amendment AND the link is NOT fallacious.
Just because something is protected by the first amendment does not mean that it is benign, that it can not inspire immoral acts.
Logic - ur doing it wrong.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:26 AM
You people act like that's not even up for debate.
not very observant, are you?
the link is completely fallacious and thus protected by the first amendment.
what the fuck does that even mean?
Posted by: Moggie | September 30, 2008 4:28 AM
And what exactly would you do with the many Muslims who were born in America?
Posted by: MikeinJapan | September 30, 2008 4:30 AM
This isn't a court of law where we have to prove beyond doubt that there is a connection. This is a blog. PZ can make the suspicious connection that the attack, which coincided with the distribution of the DVD, was connected by more than just happenstance. The distributors of the DVD probably cannot be held liable, but the people involved in the attack certainly can and should. When they are caught they can be questioned, and more information will become available about what role this DVD may have had in inciting them to violence.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:33 AM
This is a blog. PZ can make the suspicious connection that the attack, which coincided with the distribution of the DVD, was connected by more than just happenstance.
er, not that he actually HAS done that, mind you.
note that the blockquoted part of the article was not written by PZ, but taken from the linked KOS article.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:39 AM
one thing I would add, is from a historical perspective within the US, if this had been a gas attack on a xian church in the same locale, very likely it would have been immediately investigated from the start as a hate crime.
so, regardless of whether or not this one actually turns out to be, it seems hypocritical to me for the local police not to investigate it as such.
Posted by: scooter | September 30, 2008 4:55 AM
Posted by: Ichthyic
from a historical perspective within the US, if this had been a gas attack on a xian church in the same locale, very likely it would have been immediately investigated from the start as a hate crime.
Obviously you have never been to a southern babtist white church. These people start drinking cheap beer on Friday night and stumble into church hungover or still drunk, after eating eggs for breakfast.
Every Sunday morning service is a gas attack, and sulphur dioxide is far more lethal than 'irritants'.
That's why they don't light candles or sling incense or anything flammable in southern churches
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 4:58 AM
Every Sunday morning service is a gas attack, and sulphur dioxide is far more lethal than 'irritants'.
ROFLMAO
must be where the rumors of "spontaneous combustion" come from.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 5:00 AM
It seems likely, but I don't see any details about their race in any of the stories about it.
one of the links described the little girl as saying she was sprayed by two white men, who said nothing.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 5:03 AM
That's why they don't light candles or sling incense or anything flammable in southern churches
Lyle: "How 'bout some more beans, Mr. Taggart?"
Mr. Taggart: "I'd say you've had enough ..."
Posted by: Muffins | September 30, 2008 5:19 AM
"Common decency would suggest that babies should not be targeted."
Common decency would also suggest that terrorist attacks should not be committed at all, I'd say. Or that any kind of racism, discrimination, fear-mongering etc. should not exist.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | September 30, 2008 5:28 AM
Posted by: Janus @ 26
Well, I actually have seen said DVD, and you sir are a complete and total idiot! Moreover, I didn't have to do any research whatsoever to be 100% certain of the accuracy of my statement.
Posted by: Kobra | September 30, 2008 5:30 AM
#69:
That kinda goes without saying. It's more appalling that someone committing these attacks would harm children, though.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | September 30, 2008 5:49 AM
Come on now, this is the *WAR AGAINST TERROR* we're talking about here. A few women, children and babies here and there, that's merely *COLATERAL DAMAGE*.
Posted by: Pandora Neurospora | September 30, 2008 5:50 AM
BobC:
"Whenever I hear the word 'Muslim' all I can think about is people being burned alive, or jumping out of windows..."
Hey this might seem rude BobC but I have to ask. Have you ever met a Muslim? Do you interact with them, at all?
Posted by: clinteas | September 30, 2008 6:20 AM
Get off BobC's back people !
One thing's for sure,hes saying it like he feels it is,and I can deal with that,and somewhat relate,I have had similar outbursts here myself.Sometimes you just blow the gasket and have to vent.
I work with Muslims every day of the week,lots of my residents and support staff are,and yes they are mainly discussion-resistant,and yes they will walk out on you in the middle of a resus to go pray for 15 minutes,and yes I have seen the videos of decapitation and stonings.
Are there nice Muslims? Duh,what a stupid question,just as many as nice Christians or Jews,of course,but are there millions of zealots and retarded violence-ready people on all sides,but more so on the side of Islam? Definetely yes IMO.
The sound makes the music,as they say.But keep the message in mind too.
Posted by: johannes | September 30, 2008 6:33 AM
> responsible for 100% of the daily suicide bombings in this world
# 53,
Suicide bombings were brought to the middle east by the Syrian National Socialist Party, which is Melkite (= greek orthodox) Christian.
Posted by: Evolving Squid | September 30, 2008 6:55 AM
I do hope that the perpetrators are pursued with the same vigour that has driven the pursuit of Muslim terrorists these past 7 years.
Posted by: clinteas | September 30, 2008 7:01 AM
And now to something completely different :
Bill Maher talks about "Religulous" on Conan last nite :
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=459Ln4h5ldU
Posted by: Christopher | September 30, 2008 7:07 AM
Don't expect too much done about this. The police are involved, but even if they bother to find the perpetrators and arrest them, bring them to trial, it'll be a very light charge with little, if any, jail time upon conviction.
This is a very conservative part of Ohio. Southern, especially southwest Ohio, will go for Republican almost every time. These are the people who voted Jean Schmidt back in even after she was contemptible in the House for remarks about Kerry.
This is also near the area where Larry Flynt found himself targeted often for his pornography studio. This is not a pleasant area for freethinkers to feel safe from religious zealots. And it especially isn't too safe for non-Christians who are in the path of any of the religious zealots.
It's wrong. But like much of what happens in Ohio lately, I don't see anything going right about it.
Posted by: craig | September 30, 2008 7:55 AM
"Whenever I hear the word 'Muslim' all I can think about is people being burned alive, or jumping out of windows..."
And whenever I hear the word 'German' all I think of is the Holocaust. And whenever I hear the word 'Jew' all I think of is the Palestinians. And whenever I hear the word 'Palestinian' all I think of is the Jews. And whenever I hear the word 'Japanese' all I think of is Pearl Harbor. And whenever I hear the word 'French' all I think of is Algeria. And whenever I hear the word 'Turk' all I think of is Armenia. And whenever I hear the word 'Chinese' all I think of is Tienanmen Square. And whenever I hear the word "American," all I think of is the Sullivan Expedition. And whenever I hear the word 'English' all I I think of is... well, many things. And whenever I hear the word 'Christian' all I think of is the Salem Witch Trials. And whenever I hear the word 'Communist' all I think of is the gulags. And whenever I hear the word 'Capitalist' all I think of is the Ludlow Massacre. And whenever I hear the word 'scientist" all I think of is Hiroshima.
The problem with that kind of thinking is - it's not thinking. It's reacting. It's lizard-brain.
THINKING is what get's you past those reactions.
Posted by: BAllanJ | September 30, 2008 8:43 AM
OK, so when they find these guys (I hope), they should send them off to Gitmo where they can stand on a stool naked and blindfolded until they say their guilty of....well... everything. Not really, since I hope they close that place and let the Cubans have it back, but it is a nice fantasy.
Re the DVD... anyone know if it's distributed up here in Canada? If it is we could ask the distributors to come up and give a little talk... then arrest their asses and charge them with hate crimes!
Posted by: Jon | September 30, 2008 8:53 AM
This is bad and everything, but what does this have to do with John McCain? Complete non-sequitur.
Posted by: Jordan S | September 30, 2008 9:07 AM
Craig said:
"...and whenever I hear the word 'scientist" all I think of is Hiroshima.
The problem with that kind of thinking is - it's not thinking. It's reacting. It's lizard-brain."
Lay off BobC. He was sharing what, his thoughts or feelings?...you don't really make the connections of your examples ... you are simply mocking. Bob probably does make the connections he's suggesting he does. Making connections is part of the human experience. Your suggestion that his thinking is lizard brained makes some kind of weird assumption that a person can make a choice about how one feels about something.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | September 30, 2008 9:15 AM
I've seen this flick. My take is here.
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | September 30, 2008 9:15 AM
The effort to disentangle one's consciousness from fear is often more than many people can make. My mother told me of a trip she made to Pearl Harbor in the 1960's. Of course as a young woman she had lived through WWII and all the propaganda posters, etc. There were tourists everywhere including Japanese tourists. She told me; "I know it isn't rational, but I kept thinking, 'Get that camera away from that Jap!'"
That is the price of fearmongering and hatemongering (and indirectly of attacks in the first place) - fear and distrust, hate, that persists for decades despite conscious efforts to get past them. Fortunately children don't care much for their parents' concerns, unless they are carefully taught.
Posted by: Hockey Bob | September 30, 2008 9:22 AM
Great - more reactionary drivel from DailyKos. At least they didn't blame Bush for it this time.
Seriously, a "chemical" "terrorist attack"? It was a white spray can - they probably got sprayed with dollar store deodorant...
(Which is what the cops *should* have used on the anarchists at the RNC - anything is better than that awful patchouli oil crap they wear!)
Posted by: Nick Gotts | September 30, 2008 9:27 AM
HockeyBob,
You're a moronic scumbag. If you are sprayed with an unknown chemical by unknown people, it has to be assumed highly toxic until proven otherwise.
Posted by: Snitzels | September 30, 2008 9:31 AM
OMFG. I freaking live here in Dayton. This doesn't surprise me too terribly much, as most of the population has thinly veiled suspicion of anyone different. What pisses me off the most is that it happened here, and then the police said it's NOT A HATE CRIME.
WTF!?!?!? All you have to do is read the article, a little girl was standing next to a window and two white men sprayed her in the face with a chemical, but because they didn't say anything, just gassed everyone, it's "not a hate crime". I guess it was just a simple attack on a religious building and only targeted the children. that makes it not a terrorist act at all.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | September 30, 2008 9:36 AM
Man, is that easy.
The motive of terrorism is to strike the targeted population segment with fear, in Latin terror. Killing people is not the goal; when it happens (see 9/11), it's a means to an end, the end being to say "be afraid -- do what we want, or you'll be next".
Austrians were overrepresented among concentration camp guards and... similar groups of people.
The ignorance! Not only is Islam not necessary for becoming a suicide bomber, religion in the usual sense or even any belief in an afterlife is not necessary. The PKK, the Workers' Party of Kurdistan, is Stalinist, and has produced a series of suicide bombers, many of them incidentally women. I repeat: Stalinists. They all firmly believed that death is The End®.
Posted by: Cafeeine | September 30, 2008 9:41 AM