…and this is a 
“There's an underground church that the world has no idea exists”
Category: Kooks • Politics • Religion
Posted on: September 8, 2008 11:39 PM, by PZ Myers
That's a quote from Lou Engle in this video — and it's actually kind of true. He thinks it will be a wonderful thing when people see this, and there probably are a lot of Americans who think the events portrayed are perfectly ordinary, and even commendable.
I see nothing but madness.
By picking Sarah Palin for a running mate, John McCain has turned over a rock to expose a festering, primitive insanity in our country. Look on the squirming horror, world, and learn that it does exist!
A further indictment: Juan Cole sees Palin through the lens of his expertise on the Islamic world.
John McCain announced that he was running for president to confront the "transcendent challenge" of the 21st century, "radical Islamic extremism," contrasting it with "stability, tolerance and democracy." But the values of his handpicked running mate, Sarah Palin, more resemble those of Muslim fundamentalists than they do those of the Founding Fathers. On censorship, the teaching of creationism in schools, reproductive rights, attributing government policy to God's will and climate change, Palin agrees with Hamas and Saudi Arabia rather than supporting tolerance and democratic precepts. What is the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist? Lipstick.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Clemens | September 8, 2008 11:50 PM
Thank gawd in November I'll still be here in peaceful New Zealand. I'm freckin' frightened by these developments.
Posted by: marc buhler | September 8, 2008 11:51 PM
I assume it is "blood-red" colour lipstick!
(aside: application for postal ballot sent the other day, to add my vote in NJ for Obama)
Posted by: Clemens | September 8, 2008 11:56 PM
I forgot:
Dear fundies,
1 Timothy 2, 2:12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
So if McSame/Palin get elected, then McSame is the only true Christian in the entire US, because he's the only man that doesn't have a women with authority over her. Scary, hugh?
Posted by: Katherine C. Teel | September 8, 2008 11:58 PM
You people are so out of touch with reality.
Posted by: God | September 8, 2008 11:59 PM
This makes me sick.
Posted by: Holbach | September 9, 2008 12:01 AM
Has there been a general breakout of the insane asylums? They are out there and coming to your area soon. If anything, that video is cause for concern and vigilance.
Posted by: Mena | September 9, 2008 12:02 AM
But she's a maverette!
Posted by: Norman Doering | September 9, 2008 12:05 AM
This is why they want to scrub her record and just present her as a cutter of wasteful spending and the mother of a Downs syndrome child.
However, it's now looking like the selling of the luxury jet and the firing of the cook aren't entirely real. And as far as the Downs syndrome child, it sounds nice until you realize she'd like to take that choice away from everyone else and stick everyone with what nature deals out.
How can there be a close race when, according to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome#Ethical_issues
In 2002, elective abortion rates for pregnancies in the United States with a diagnosis of Down syndrome was about 91-93%. More than nine out of ten wanted to terminate the pregnancy. Some people, especially anti-choice Christians, are concerned about the ethical ramifications of this. Conservative commentator George Will called it "eugenics by abortion."
Now, are those potential nine out of ten people going to like the fact that Palin wants to take away this option? Are they even thinking about that? It couldn't be a 50/50 split if they were.
Posted by: Holbach | September 9, 2008 12:06 AM
Katherine C Teel @ 4
Oh, and you and your kind have been touched with insanity.
Posted by: Rayven Alandria | September 9, 2008 12:06 AM
Palin made me switch parties. I have been Repub for 20 years, now I am a Democrap. I swore I would NEVER vote Democrap until the Clintons were out of power, but this whackjob scares me so badly that I have changed my mind. (and my party affiliation).
Posted by: Jim Harrison | September 9, 2008 12:06 AM
If America really wants its leaders rolling around on the floor and speaking in tongues, fair enough. Let's get this video out so people can pay their money and take their choice.
Posted by: marc buhler | September 9, 2008 12:07 AM
Comment 4 by Katherine C. Teel states: "You people are so out of touch with reality."
I must assume you mean the people in that video - surely you don't mean us rational scientific types, or do you? Very sad - for you - if you do mean the readership here, very sad indeed.
Posted by: Lluraa | September 9, 2008 12:10 AM
There is more antireligious sentiment on this website than than there is science. At least be intellectually honest enough to promote this website as an Atheistic website and not one dedicated to science.
Oh wait, you guys are too immature and adolesant to do that.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | September 9, 2008 12:18 AM
Can't some photoshop wizard out there come up with a picture of a pit bull with lipstick holding a hockey stick?
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 12:21 AM
Give me a break...I'm not a big fan of Palin but she quit this church and moved on after concluding that it was just too weird for her. Unlike Obama who maintained his membership in Wright's insanity for 20 years.
PZ....I'm an evolutionary psychologist at the State University of New York and couldn't be more sympathetic to your brand of atheism. But, methinks you are letting your political fundamentalism cloud your usual evidence-based epistemology. Please.....think. And relax, man.
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 9, 2008 12:23 AM
"At least be intellectually honest enough to promote this website as an Atheistic website and not one dedicated to science."
What, it can't be both?
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 9, 2008 12:23 AM
Yammer yammer yammer... Really? What makes you think you can dictate what does and does not go into this blog? Do you believe you have some sort of magic, editorial power? Or, maybe you're just dense.
I'm thinking that's what it is. You're special. And dense.
Anyway, as to the video, to think that these soft-headed yokels who bless cell-phones could be making policy for every poor, oppressed person in this country. It's fucking terrifying.
Posted by: Rheinhard | September 9, 2008 12:23 AM
Lluraa - right, and I'm sure you'll be checking out the science posts on evidence for evolution, cellular function in zebrafish, etc etc on your frequent regular vists if PZ does what you say, right? Suuuure you will...
Posted by: Holbach | September 9, 2008 12:27 AM
Lluraa @ 13
Atheism is most assuredly dedicated to science as religion is not. The combination of the two will always hold your insane religion at bay, and one does not to be an adolescent to encompass the irrationalities of religion, as is so aptly demonstrated by supposedly mature adults. You cannot dissociate atheism and science, just as you cannot dissociate religion and madness.
Posted by: Nibien | September 9, 2008 12:28 AM
Do you know absolutely anything about her views or what she's said about God?
Regardless, you should only use three "..." rather than four, as in your second paragraph, so I highly doubt you're qualified to be doing much at any university.
Oh, by the way, your use of epistemology in the second paragraph also makes little sense, giving me even more doubts about you.
Posted by: Mike W | September 9, 2008 12:29 AM
Intelligence is inversely related to belief in god/s,
this site, being dedicated to science/reason is therefore without god/s, boogyman, unicorns, fairy's etc..
does this stuff depress anyone else to the point that you just want to bomb all churches and nuke the islamic countries?
i know that is not the correct solution,...but damn
Posted by: Kseniya | September 9, 2008 12:29 AM
Superstition = In Touch With Reality?
It's A Whole New Paradigm for The New American Century!
Posted by: truckboattruck | September 9, 2008 12:31 AM
Curious as to how the right-leaning media will cover this.
Obviously GOP operatives will spin this topic as attacking-her-church or attacking-her-faith. Meanwhile, I'm really curious to see what Sean Hannity does -- given that he has led with Obama's church as the primary topic (and typically the only topic) on his radio show for pretty much the entire year.
How does one defend this? And if one does, is *any* religious practice ok?
Posted by: Kseniya | September 9, 2008 12:35 AM
Lluraa: What an extraordinarily original thought you've presented here! Your concern is noted. And, FYI, it's "adolescent". Write it five times in a row so you'll remember. The test is Friday. If you need to skip recess to study for the test, please do so.
Posted by: TA | September 9, 2008 12:35 AM
Lluraa - This site is dedicated to science, its furtherance and to its defense from those who would attack it. Since religious fundy whackjobs like Sarah Palin are a clear and present danger to science, it is well within the scope of this site to eviscerate her arguments, positions, etc. Keep up the great work PZ.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 12:36 AM
Nibien....read a book rather than count dots.
Posted by: Cat's Staff | September 9, 2008 12:36 AM
I was just thinking that it would be nice if this would be an opportunity for average/mainstream folks to see what this small minority is up to when the media exposes it by talking about her...but I'm afraid that the media will avoid all talk about her religion because it feels it's expected to avoid talking about peoples religion and just respect it (as long as it isn't killing people).
What can be done to get the media to think that the average person should know about this kind of thing and cross the line of talking about it?
Posted by: TA | September 9, 2008 12:38 AM
And further more, since it is PZ's site he can do any damn thing he likes.
Posted by: TK | September 9, 2008 12:39 AM
I would like to propose a new computer term- When one recieves a packet of information or message from a right wing nutjob or religious wacko I refer
to it as a "dinglebyte"- a collection of unneeded bytes that tends to leave a skidmark on ones brain. Thankyou for your time.--
Posted by: Dagger | September 9, 2008 12:45 AM
I could only stomach about 4 minutes of that video. Pathetic is the only word I can think of and even that doesn't cover it.
It sprang a vision to mind though. It was like watching a monkey shit fight at the local zoo. Even then, zoo monkey's actually know what they are flinging...
Posted by: steve s | September 9, 2008 12:46 AM
"Some people, especially anti-choice Christians, are concerned about the ethical ramifications of this. Conservative commentator George Will called it "eugenics by abortion.""
FYI, and I'm not accusing you of saying otherwise, but George Will is an agnostic. He said on Colbert that he wasn't decisive enough to be an atheist.
Posted by: truckboattruck | September 9, 2008 12:48 AM
She must not think it too weird since she gave a speech there in June.
Posted by: hje | September 9, 2008 12:52 AM
The 21st century Ghost Dance of the evangelicals. I'd be very surprised if we don't see these holy warriors take up bombs or guns during the next decade--like Waco, but with the fanatics on the offense. Students on our campus have some frightening tales about the militancy of these groups and their attempts to exert total control over student life at even a secular university.
Oh, for the good old days when the ranting & ravings of Brother Jed and Sister Cindy provided entertainment on a spring afternoon.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 12:53 AM
truckboattruck....that's the nature of small town politics. Show me a video of her shaking and quaking. Then you'll have a story.
Posted by: Kel | September 9, 2008 12:56 AM
Did you read the title? Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberalIt mentions atheism in the title. There's probably something we could say about intellectual honesty and being misrepresentative...
Posted by: Joel | September 9, 2008 1:03 AM
I'm not certain this is undergound, at least where I live, it would not be too difficult to find services similar to those shown in this video.
Posted by: hje | September 9, 2008 1:06 AM
Now if they could actually dance, ...
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/3apuFnH-James-Brown-The-Blues-Brothers
Posted by: truckboattruck | September 9, 2008 1:07 AM
Small town politics?? She was the Governor of Alaska when she gave that speech.
And by your no-video-of-her-shaking logic... any member of any organization who isn't video taped directly involved in the disturbing activities of said organization... is free from scrutiny?
Posted by: PhotoZel | September 9, 2008 1:10 AM
The sad thing is that there is a place like this near my house in JAX Florida. I went a couple times just to watch. I warn anyone else, it will physically make you sick to watch these people. Cults have nothing on these Warriors for God.
I have to go wash my hands now, as they feel sticky and covered in fundy germs.
Zel
Posted by: Joel | September 9, 2008 1:17 AM
any member of any organization who isn't video taped directly involved in the disturbing activities of said organization... is free from scrutiny?
You should be careful, this could mean another candidate who was associated with another church might need to be held to the same standard.
Posted by: DrClown | September 9, 2008 1:18 AM
And here we see a cargo cult exposed to cell phones for the first time.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 1:19 AM
truckboattruck....Alaska is a bunch of small towns populated by people that VOTE - duh.
And, she was not a member of that church when she spoke to its members. You are assuming something that is not supported by evidence. If you have evidence that she was involved in "disturbing activities" then present it. And...scrutinize away.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 1:21 AM
Exactly, Joel.
Posted by: Alan Chapman | September 9, 2008 1:29 AM
The one dude was singing, "This world has nothing for me..."
It's utterly pathetic that a person must seek refuge in illusions to engender a sense of meaning and purpose in life.
Posted by: Jason | September 9, 2008 1:31 AM
Wait a minute... why aren't we sending these people to clinics where they can get help?
I'm certain that if I went out on the street corner and started flopping around speaking gibberish and crying about how I saw god, I'd be getting a visit from the authorities sooner or later. Is it just the fact that they do it in groups that makes it okay?
Posted by: Yocco | September 9, 2008 1:31 AM
Jesus Christ on a stick. Do leftists have copies of the playbook "how to lose an election" or are they just lucky. When it comes to running campaigns the Democrats are playing Checkers and the Republicans playing chess. They sent a big fakeout and hook line and sinker the dems have bought it.
To win Democrats need to stop talking about the off color comments that Palin didn't make and the ones that McCain did (joke in 98 about Chelsea Clinton)
They need to stop talking about Palin's church and start talking about the visit McCain made to Liberty University and willingness to go to Bob Jones.
They need to stop talking about Palin's daughter and start talking about how the McCain marriage is the result of an affair and how he abandoned his disabled wife.
They need to stop talking about the bridge to nowhere and start talking about the Keating five.
They need to stop talking about how he stood up the vietcong and start talking about how he buckled to the Bush administration.
As long as democrats are afraid to attack the war hero and get distracted by a runner up in a beauty pagent this country will remain at war. You disgust me you fucking liberal cowards. You have no idea how to win. Get focused, get mean and beat McCain and ignore this stupid cunt before we have nothing to rely on but Nancy Pelosi and her do nothing congress.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 9, 2008 1:35 AM
The difference with that "other candidate" is that there's no need to infer anything about his faith, or his ideas on separation of church and state, because he's explicitly told us what they are, in two books, multiple speeches, and any number of interviews (and if you're going to claim he's been lying, better be prepared to prove it; "extraordinary claims...," after all).
Governor Palin, OTOH, has been carefully (and aggressively) shielded from any such self-declarations or questions ever since the first moment anybody outside of Alaska had any reason to care about her. In her convention speech, she sneered at Obama's memoirs, as if having a paper trail were a bad thing in a candidate for high office.
Then again, maybe it would be... for her.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 1:35 AM
Yocco...you're enlightened attitude is exactly why McCain will win in a landslide. Unfortunately.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 1:41 AM
Bill Dauphin.....is one to infer that Obama is a Black Liberation Theologian because of his association with the Reverend Wright? After nearly 2 years of running for president, can you say for sure that he's not?
Posted by: melior | September 9, 2008 1:43 AM
Actually, this is Palin's 3rd time to become convinced she's found the One True Fairytale. She'd rather not talk about the first two times she was apparently duped (baptised Catholic, re-baptised tongue-speaking fundagelical Pentecostalist).
Will Scientology be her next conversion?
Posted by: echidna | September 9, 2008 1:45 AM
To those concerned with a double standard, and whether this topic is relevant:
Palin has publicly expressed support for teaching creationism alongside evolution. Obama has not. No double standard there.
What is taught in science classes is very relevant to scientists.
Private beliefs are one's own. The effect of those beliefs on the scientific education and future of the country, and indeed the world, are everybody's concern, and so belong on this blog.
Posted by: aratina | September 9, 2008 1:45 AM
WT....F:
We need to hear more information from Palin herself. During the 2006 gubernatorial debates, she declared some very strong faith-based views. She appointed a man from her current church to fill a vacancy in the state house and he has tried to inject intelligent design, abortion bans and other radical stuff into Alaska's laws. She sat through a sermon where a man talked about how Jews deserved being terrorized, but later said that she does not share that belief. Many of the people in the church she attends in Juneau take the literal approach to the Bible. This is no six-year stint at a church for Palin, this is a lifetime of being surrounded by radical religious viewpoints.
Posted by: Autumn | September 9, 2008 1:53 AM
@Rayven Alandria
I'm glad that you are planning to vote for Obama, but if the basic, old-fashioned Republican platform is what you have believed in, then changing your party affiliation is a very bad way to fix the party's errors in judgement.
I would rather have to debate the relative merits of various government programs based on their cost v. benefit than be relegated to arguing against a hold-out party of delusional god-bots.
I have many rational Republican friends, and I enjoy debating issues with them. I would hate to only be able to debate dingbats.
Seriously, vote for the candidate you feel best about at every election, and if you are able to, try and move your party back towards the more acceptable candidates.
Posted by: Mena | September 9, 2008 1:53 AM
Wow, what's with the sudden rash of bots? I suspect that there are only one or two IP addresses represented there but it's someone who apparently has quite a bit of free time.
Posted by: truckboattruck | September 9, 2008 1:56 AM
Obama's association w/ his church hasn't been scrutinized?!? Well we should get right on that then!!!!1 Oh wait, that association has been scrutinized... to death... for months. Hell, it was the lead story on one of the largest syndicated radio programs in America for most of the year -- not to mention O'Reilly leading with it for all of March or April, or was it May?The only things I'm assuming are: 1. That she was a member of that church at some point in her life (evidenced by her mentioning her being a member of that church during a speech she recently gave there in June), and 2. That she gave a speech there in June (evidenced by the video of her giving a speech there in June).
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | September 9, 2008 2:01 AM
I'm also pessimistic about the likely outcome of the election, but for different reasons. I think 51% to 49% or thereabouts is more likely: close enough for the Republicans to steal the election for the third successive time through disenfranchisement, rigged e-voting, and other forms of electoral fraud, but allowing the American public the comfortable delusion of democracy when, in fact, they've been living in a corrupt kleptomaniacal plutocracy for at least 8 years. The Abe Simpson/Maude Flanders ticket (aka "McCain/Palin") will win by a fraudulent narrow margin, pay back the oligarchs who own America, and the average citizen will continue to suffer.
It's your in this context, btw.
Posted by: Niobe | September 9, 2008 2:03 AM
The more I see of expressions of belief, regardless of the flavor of religion it holds, the more it comes down to the same ritualistic displays that have an effect on the brain and your perception when you're in that state. The constant group pressure, the chanting, the monotone mantra repetitions, the hysterics. It's the same with some Indonesian shaman that can trance his way into cutting his skin without much pain and these people are literally drunk on jesus. Though I bet some are just literally drunk.
Posted by: Yocco | September 9, 2008 2:05 AM
WT.
Your claim to enlightment had gotten you nowhere. How have you done in the last two elections? If it weren't for Ross Perot the dems would have to go back to the bicentenial to look to their last win.
And I love how you refute me points. What don't you agree with?
Do you think going after Palin and not McCain is a good strategy?
Do you think our congress has accomplished great things this past two years?
Do you think playing nice and fair and trying to convince people with civil discourse is really a winning strategy.
I don't want the Republicans to win but when it comes to presidential campaigns what I have seen is that they are a party that knows how to play dirty and win and the Democrats know how to sit there and take it like a bitch. I'm inviting you to prove me wrong but the last week has been a strategic failure for the party and its followers.
Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 2:06 AM
truckboattruck - So...Obama's membership, for 20 years, has been scrutinized. And your conclusion after said scrutinization is???
And, Palin WAS a member. Not any more. It's possible for people to grow.
Aritina...."being surrounded by" and "believing" are sometimes two different things. Let's wait and hear what she has to say.
Posted by: raven | September 9, 2008 2:09 AM
Exactly right. There was an interview with an Egyptian scientist not too long ago in Science. The Moslems have 1 billion people, 1 trillion bucks in new oil money, and do very little science.
He blames it on "politicized hypereligiosity". And points out that in times past Islam was in the forefront of science while Europe was in the Dark Ages.
The fundie Death Cultists are simply going down the same road. Palin is proud of her dead moose and proud of not knowing or caring one whit about science. These morons will cheerfully destroy the USA without a second thought.
Posted by: AlanWCan | September 9, 2008 2:10 AM
But at least we can spell...or was that tongues?Posted by: WT | September 9, 2008 2:13 AM
Emmet....mea culpa. YOUR, of course :)
Posted by: hrmmm | September 9, 2008 2:17 AM
that's one scary lady.
so the woman with the iron box is also a religious fundamentalist? wow. this is better than finding out that the pope was a former member of the nazi youth. it's almost like christmas time.
- go santa go!
Posted by: MartinB | September 9, 2008 2:20 AM
"What is the difference between Palin and a Muslim fundamentalist? Lipstick."
It was not too long ago that some science blogger (who the heck could it have been?) warned us all from making jokes about Palin being a woman. As Richard Back once wrote "We teach best what we most need to learn."
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 9, 2008 2:20 AM
WT:
READIN' KOMPREHESHUN: UR DOIN' IT RONG!
My comment that apparently provoked this question had as its only purpose answering this question: No, we need not infer anything about Obama's beliefs because he is clearly on the record concerning them. I actually read his book, and listened to his speeches, and listened to his interview responses specifically about Wright and more generally about what he believes WRT church and state.
Absolutely. He's been very clear that he's a moderate (and sometimes questioning) mainstream Christian; that he believes strongly in the separation of church and state; that while he values the good works of faith-based service organizations, he will not allow them to proselytize with government funds; and that he specifically renounces (and repudiates and whatever other verbs his interrogators demanded of him) the divisive and confrontational theology of Rev. Wright. And his positions on the issues are consistent with mainstream, center-left, secular Democratic ideas. Because he's on the record (and again, if you think he's lying, prove it), we don't need to guess!!
Sarah Palin, OTOH, holds positions that are consistent with religious right-wing ideas and has answered no questions about her faith or her church-and-state stance. Perhaps if she'd give a freakin' interview, she might alleviate some of these fears. I doubt it, though: Unlike with the Rev. Wright sermon (which Obama didn't even see or hear), that's the candidate herself giving the sermons ('cause that's what they are) that are posted here.
1 Not to be too awful snotty about the language, but "theologian" denotes a scholar or professor of theology, not an adherent. As Obama's formal education is in constitutional law, and that's what he taught as a professor, he's not a theologian of any sort.
Posted by: raven | September 9, 2008 2:21 AM
The lies that Palin somehow left the snake handler neopent. Doms is laughable. All 4 churches Palin is associated with are affiliated with Assembly of God. The AOG churches frequently use the term "nondenominational" to hide the affiliation. This is because most Xians consider them kooks at best and subversive traitors at worst.
Palin makes no secret of her wild eyed cult extremist views. Thinks the earth is 6,000 years old, is a Dominionist to the bone, anti-choice, doesn't see global warming happening and on and on.
As the book says, the one they never pay any attention to, "By their words, you shall know them."
Posted by: Anon | September 9, 2008 2:22 AM
The video is certainly scary. As an ex-fundie myself I've experienced some of these kinds of meetings (I'm embarrassed to say). It's very easy to get caught up in the whole group dynamic of these kinds of events, although my own experience (and most people I knew) is that long-term they generally did not result in a better or happier life (and oftentimes, people got very addicted to the feelings and emotions of attending these sort of gatherings, to the point that it was decidedly unhealthy). Clearly, there are some interesting psychological phenomena going on (e.g., being "slain in the spirit"), and it would make a good study. Anybody aware of some academic scholarship that has studied these kinds of behaviors from a psychological perspective?
Posted by: lenny_mule | September 9, 2008 2:23 AM
It makes me ill to my stomach. Absolute nuttery. Preying on the youth, advocating abandonment of self? That's got to be some for of suicide lingo, you know nutter christians are not too damn far from Jonesboro, Waco, whatever nuttery you like. If only we were just monkeys...
Posted by: Nibien | September 9, 2008 2:27 AM
Your concern-tolling may have been more effective if Palin didn't make her own joke about this. That is, what's the difference between a Hockey Mom (her) and a Pit bull: Lipstick.
See, being informed is fun! Try it!
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 9, 2008 2:31 AM
MartinB:
Bzzzt! Your critique of blogger snark is wrong on two points:
1. This is a close paraphrase of Palin's own joke about herself, from her big RNC speech.
2. It's Juan Cole's paraphrase, made in the context of his very thoughtful and well-reasoned Salon essay quoted above... not, as you seem to imagine, the immature namecalling of some commenter.
But thanks for playing...
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 9, 2008 2:37 AM
Can there be anything more existentially weird than misspelling a deliberate comic misspelling?
READIN' KOMPREHESHUN... (@65) should clearly have been READIN' KOMPREHENSHUN. Sorry for any KONFUZYON!
;^)
Posted by: raven | September 9, 2008 2:37 AM
Cults are all about the same. We've all seen them. The Moonies, Jonestown-Guyana, FLDS, Kymer Rouge, Taliban, Al Qaida, Waco, Heavens Gate. They all tap into the same part of the human psyche.
Palin is a wild eyed Death Cultist, a Rapture Monkey who fervently hopes god kills 6.7 billion people soon. She even sacrified her own daughter to her wing nut beliefs.
If she and her 72 year old codger get elected, kiss the USA good bye.
Posted by: Spero Melior | September 9, 2008 2:42 AM
Thanks a lot for posting this video. Like I wasn't queasy enough already:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6nm18_sarah-palin-vice-president-family-g_fun
Posted by: amk | September 9, 2008 3:00 AM
WT, apparently you didn't watch the video long enough to hear Palin claim the Iraq War is a "task from God". Not only is this a wildly irrational approach to war (of all things), but the more reason Iraqi and Afghan Muslims have to believe the US is fighting a Crusade the more they will be motivated to not co-operate, or to fight.
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | September 9, 2008 3:14 AM
You can see the signs of burnout already. Desperate attempts at keeping hope and interest alive as the cause disintegrates around them.
I wonder how many commenters in this thread will be finding God in the next ten to twenty years? So little intellectual endurance, so little intellectual focus, so little intellectual rigor.
Desperation produces such an ugly stink.
Posted by: truckboattruck | September 9, 2008 3:18 AM
He was a member of that church for political expediency.
I would probably go so far as to suggest that the only reason he gives off the appearance of a religious belief is because it is required for any politician in America.
Posted by: Snark7 | September 9, 2008 3:22 AM
I wonder if US-citizens will have as much reason to regret they didn't kill these people when there was still time as the germans did with the national socialist maniacs.
Posted by: Nibien | September 9, 2008 3:22 AM
I would guess roughly the same number of people that will be finding unicorns. Pink and invisible or otherwise.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 9, 2008 3:25 AM
Desperation produces such an ugly stink.
wait.
McCain selects Palin as his running mate, and you think the desperation stinks HERE?!?
stop projecting.
McCain is quite pathetic. In 2000, while running for the nomination, he ripped the GoP a new one while criticizing their placation of the religious right as a support base.
NOW he's the one doing the pandering.
Funny, but I distinctly got that rotten desperation smell coming from his camp months ago, and it still smells the same to me.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 9, 2008 3:28 AM
this is Alan's thought process, from his own blog:
you need to stop drinking so much, Alan.
Posted by: Strakh | September 9, 2008 3:32 AM
Yocco:
Careful, there, bucko, you're stating the obvious succinctly. No chance for recognition here. First you must preen yourself over how oh-so-sensitive-to-everybody you are, then how-so-very-smart-and-educated you are, then you get to make prissy little 'suggestions.' Avoid any sexist/racist/culturist/etc-ist statements...cause, after all, when you point out the obvious facts of what's going on out in the real world, you'll run in to some people here who are only too, too willing to point out how wrong you are and how right they are.
And, you are right, 100%
Good luck in convincing any around here, though.
Actually 'doing' something about one's rights is so, like, you know, 'getting your hands dirty' type of stuff, ewwww!
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 9, 2008 3:43 AM
Careful, there, bucko, you're stating the obvious succinctly.
actually, it was rather inane and disjointed.
First you must preen yourself over how oh-so-sensitive-to-everybody you are
you're kidding, right?
must be your first time here.
then how-so-very-smart-and-educated you are
stupid is as stupid does.
speaking of which...
will you be posting again soon?
Posted by: Strakh | September 9, 2008 3:50 AM
Nope.
Whenever I do post and point out that you are in the minority in America, y'all get prissy and deny the reality.
Reason and rationality are on a very, very, VERY fast slide down. It doesn't matter how many intelligent, educated people y'all personally associate with, that's the reality out in the real world.
Why in the bloody hell do you think that ignorant piece of shit is so popular?
Because she speaks for the MAJORITY of Americans. Deny if you please, but you are not the ones breeding like sewer rats and no matter how much you preen yourself over how clever you are and how stupid she is, that will not change.
Yocco is correct. If you don't get out and fight for your rights, disgusting pigs like Palin will run them right into the ground.
Your post proved his point.
Posted by: Kitty | September 9, 2008 3:51 AM
Take a look at Did Muhammad suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy?. Substitute the prophet/alien/sky fairy of your choice for 'Muhammad'.It's particularly interesting that the effects of TLE can be reproduced by the conditions created at these church meetings.
You might also want to look at God on the Brain.
Posted by: Samantha Vimes | September 9, 2008 3:51 AM
Well, WT, what *exactly* has you so riled up? I've heard Wright saying that Hillary Clinton doesn't know what it's like to have taxis refuse to stop for you on a rainy night because of being black.
I actually can't see any controversy there.
Wright, I think, wants reparations to the descendants of slaves; I don't think that's practical, and I don't think Obama does either. But that doesn't mean we can't be friends with people who think it's a good idea.
I've also been informed that Obama, having been raised by white relatives and his father's family being non-American, felt he needed to better understand the lives and perspectives of more typical black Americans and therefore joined a black church, which is the hub of a great deal of social life for blacks. Wright's strong political views would at least make him interesting to listen to, even when in disagreement.
Ever had a college course where the professor seemed to have strong but strange opinions, but you also realized you could learn about how people see the world from his class?
If Wright was performing faith healing, passing out rattlesnakes, etc, then I might worry about Obama's judgment. But the fact that a moderate liberal wants to hear what the radicals are thinking while getting his weekly dose of Jesus? Not so weird, imo.