…and this is a 
Tonight!
Category: Personal
Posted on: September 26, 2008 3:45 PM, by PZ Myers
I'm getting some email from local people wanting to get together while I'm here in LA. The best opportunity is tonight (Friday, 26 September), when I'll be speaking downtown at Libros Revolución, at 312 W. 8th St (between Broadway & Hill streets). We're scheduled to start at 7:00pm, but due to the curiously static nature of evening traffic in LA, we'll probably offer a little leeway and may start a little later than that…and of course, if you can't make even our delayed starting time, I'll be hanging about afterwards, probably seeking out some nearby watering hole. So come whenever!
Comments
Posted by: Moses | September 26, 2008 3:58 PM
If I was there, I'd join you. After all McCain has already won tonight's debate so I won't need to watch it.
Posted by: Patricia | September 26, 2008 4:02 PM
Hey PZ, you're no longer #1 on Big Bad Bill's web site. He's madder than a hornet at Bill Maher.
http://www.catholic.league.org/billmaher987656789.php
Posted by: PZ Myers | September 26, 2008 4:42 PM
Man, Maher ought to invite me on his show sometime so we can make Donohue's head assplode. We could chat about crackers.
I see Crazy Bill is also defending the reality of witchcraft as a force we must be protected from. Isn't that sweet?
Posted by: themadlolscientist, FCD | September 26, 2008 4:47 PM
TWO polls to crash for the price of one!
Ditched Letterman Rips Into John McCain
Letterman's anger was:
Unjustified - 59%
Justified - 41%
Total Votes: 19,309
Should McCain reschedule?
No, not after this - 59%
Yes, make it up - 41%
Total Votes: 16,074
Posted by: kmarissa | September 26, 2008 4:58 PM
From the link in #3
"Witchcraft is a sad reality in many parts of Africa, resulting in scores of deaths in Kenya over the past two decades. Bishop Muthee's blessing, then, was simply a reflection of his cultural understanding of evil. While others are not obliged to accept his interpretation, all can be expected to respect it. More than that--Muthee should be hailed for asking God to shield Palin from harmful forces, however they may be manifested. And for this he is mocked and Palin ridiculed?"
Am I reading this correctly? Haven't the scores of deaths in Kenya over witchcraft been deaths of those people accused as witches? Then isn't it really really bad to "respect" his "interpretation"? I mean, bad if you care about people, that is. Seriously, have I misread or misinterpreted his comment?
Posted by: scooter | September 26, 2008 5:06 PM
For those of you who can't make it to commie central in LA, I'll be there capturing audio, stay tuned.
--------------------------------
Ike Carrumba!! scooter hurricane photos
Posted by: PZ Myers | September 26, 2008 5:08 PM
Dammit. That probably means you expect this talk to be really good, instead of a formality standing in the way of beer, don't you?
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 26, 2008 5:09 PM
Seriously, have I misread or misinterpreted his comment?
No, no, you read it right. The principle is simple: if someone hears voices in their head, goes on a bloody killing spree, before you decide how you are to view these actions, you must first ask yourself the following question: is this part of the spectrum of their traditional, cultural beliefs?
If yes, it's all good. Let them be. It's their religious right. Mob justice, hounding isolated and terrified old women out of town or stoning them to death, it's all cool.
Posted by: scooter | September 26, 2008 5:20 PM
I can make anybody sound awesome with wacky sound effects. boig boing duba dubadubaduba schwiiiing
Guinness, right?
Posted by: Sili | September 26, 2008 5:20 PM
Will you be singing too, Pee-Zed?
PAUL:
Tonight. Tonight.
It all began tonight.
I saw you and the world went away.
MARY:
Tonight. Tonight.
There's only you tonight.
What you are, what you do, what you say.
Posted by: Sean Carroll | September 26, 2008 5:22 PM
Hey, I didn't know you'd be in LA proper, I thought it was only Long Beach. You're walking distance from my place! There is this debate that I really wanted to see, but I'll try to peek in afterwards and drag my better half.
For post-event libations, I would recommend the Broadway Bar: 830 S. Broadway.
Posted by: Sean Carroll | September 26, 2008 5:24 PM
Or maybe 626 Reserve (626 Spring St.) It's a wine bar, and may be a little quieter on a Friday night.
Posted by: Patricia | September 26, 2008 5:24 PM
Holy shit! I just watched a clip of Amy Goodman announcing martial law will be declared October 1st. It's over on YouTube - does anyone know if that's genuine, or a hoax?
Posted by: Joanna | September 26, 2008 5:25 PM
Whoa dang, PZ is in LA!!! Pondering on whether I should make the drive or not...
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 26, 2008 5:25 PM
Hey, can any Ottawans present who expect to show for the Clocktower thing tomorrow at 8 show hands here? I want to know if it's worth/necessary calling them to tell 'em to put aside some tables.
Posted by: Epinephrine | September 26, 2008 5:30 PM
I'll be there by 8:30PM or so, I can't get there for 8:00.
Posted by: scooter | September 26, 2008 5:35 PM
Patricia... 13, I miss you. baby. Hey I've got a Harley on loan here in LA bwap bwap bwap!!!
The title of the piece was obviously not written by the DN crew. That's not martial law it's just another thug agency, although it seems a direct violation of possa kmatata or however you spell that.
Amy used to do some spoof stuff with us back in the day, but she plays it totally straight these days.
Back in the day she used to play some of my stuff in the break zippers on DN but not any more, too weird.
Whatever, she knows what she's doing, we love her.
Posted by: Brando | September 26, 2008 5:47 PM
Oh boy, this could be a SciBlog fiesta...
Posted by: Patricia | September 26, 2008 5:48 PM
Hey Scooter in the wind again! My ol' bike is a 57-93 model. My dad and my husband built it for me out of spare parts. You know how spare parts get that way right? Because they don't work! It took three years to get the thing to run. It's the damndest thing you've ever seen. The battery box is welded to the frame right behind the front wheel.
Posted by: bPer | September 26, 2008 5:51 PM
AJ Milne @ #15:
Count me in for the PharynguFest. Anybody interested in meeting there early for dinner?
Posted by: Jared | September 26, 2008 6:23 PM
Dammit, PZ, I thought you meant La (Louisiana), not LA at first, but alas, no one ever comes to this state that doesn't live here...
*sulks*
Posted by: scooter | September 26, 2008 6:45 PM
Patricia My ol' bike is a 57-93 model.
I got one of them, too. It's a 68-79 triumph.
I'll try to get a pic of PZ sittin on the Harley in front of the Queen Mary.
Posted by: Brando | September 26, 2008 6:46 PM
Okay, so the contingency plan if any of us Westside Pharyngulites miss the talk at the bookstore, is to crash the Broadway Bar and/or 626 Reserve. Now, what to wear? "Bad Samaritan" or "Teach the Controversy"?
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 26, 2008 8:45 PM
I can probably do that. Sevenish?
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 8:49 PM
Libros Revolución
It figures PZ would be hanging out at some communist joint.
Anybody shocked by this?
Maybe he should talk about T. D. Lysenko and his influence on genetics.
Or how BHO is really a "middle of the road" liberal.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 8:54 PM
EricA, do you have a real point behind your idiotic snark? So far you haven't presented a cogent argument.
Posted by: Kel | September 26, 2008 8:59 PM
Is there a an equivalent of poe's law for conservatives?
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 9:11 PM
I'm sure that when Scientist debate questions of importance they often use words like idoit and moron. You know, real Scientists, not the usual "bottle washers and button sorters".
Anyway I wouldn't know I'm just a lowly engineer.
Posted by: Kel | September 26, 2008 9:18 PM
I know I use idoit a lot when debating idiots. It adds a sense of irony to it all.Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 9:23 PM
Sure wished I put the I in the right place...
To think of all those years wasted worshiping Santa.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 9:29 PM
EricA, I worked in a department of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering for many years, and I do not talk down to people because they are Engineers. I talked down to you because you have no idea what a real communist really sounds like. I do have some experience in that topic, since the university I attended for my undergraduate work was "radicalized" during the Viet Nam war.
I can state firmly that PZ shows none of the rhetoric that the radical groups espoused. I got to know that rhetoric reading flyers while waiting for busses, in meal lines, and for classes to get out. So your implication that PZ is a communist is a flat out lie due to your own ignorance. Here's a tip to become smarter. Question everything. Look for the source of what is said and find out how reliable they are. If Ann Coulter says something, question it to see if it is Truth versus Truthiness. There is a lot of Truthiness out there.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 9:37 PM
Yeah PZ loves Lysenko. And of course communism is based on Lysenko's theories so of course PZ would be in favor of both.
wait
What?
Are you drunk?
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 26, 2008 9:46 PM
"I'm sure that when Scientist debate questions of importance they often use words like idoit and moron. "
No, the capital-S Scientists are much more likely to throw around third-grade right-wing insults like "communist" and "Hussein".
Seriously, do you have to work at being this inane or does it come naturally to you?
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | September 26, 2008 9:48 PM
Me too. I've never had a problem with people here, but then again, I'm not a complete dickhead.
Posted by: bPer | September 26, 2008 9:52 PM
AJ Milne @ #24:
Sevenish at the Clocktower for dinner sounds fine to me.
Posted by: Ray | September 26, 2008 9:54 PM
Patricia @ 19 & Scooter @ 22 My bike is a 77-78 Suzuki... I feel like a piker. Please DO get a pic of PZ on the Harley, it would make a wonderful image. I'd also love to see what a 57-93 model looks like.
Hope y'all have fun!
Cheers,
Ray
Posted by: Wowbagger | September 26, 2008 10:00 PM
Eric, I'm not a scientist (or a Scientist, for that matter) either and yet I usually don't feel I'm spoken down to by those who are - well, apart from that time someone slagged off Communications graduates.
Maybe it's not your profession/discipline that's the problem...
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:02 PM
Yeah, I too doubt PZ is a CPA member or any such. But I see a lot of socialism in some of his comments and those of his friends on this site. I think it colors his political opinion. It's for the moment a free country and he can have whatever opinion he cares to have. It is after all HIS site.
But what disturbs me is that people here are always of the opinion that PZ is an expert in Biology, then if you dissagree with him on politics, then you must be an idiot.
Yes there is truth on both sides, how about more debating and less name calling.
I know too many people who buy into creationism. They are not stupid, the are just poorly educated in Biology.
I had two corses in high school and one 100 level class in college, many years ago (1976). And that little bit is a lot more that most people.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 10:11 PM
Yet you make comments like
Are you just trolling?
Socialism or just run of the mill liberalism? Are you one of those that likes to brand any hint of liberalism as being a socialist?
This sentence is confusing. Please explain.
Both sides of what? Creationism vs. Actual science?
Um what parts of creationism has truth?
Or did you mean something else.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:14 PM
I was referring to politics Rev. There isn't much to disagree about concerning evolution.
Posted by: Kel | September 26, 2008 10:22 PM
You've come here and acted antagonistic Eric, people are going to act negatively towards you. Be positive and constructive, then you might get somewhere.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 10:22 PM
EricA, what you call socialist talk is really just liberal talk. I really haven't seen any calls to have the government totally control power generation and distribution, or communications just to give two examples of what real socialism implies. You have been listening too much to the right wing commentators, who think anybody who doesn't vote the way they do is either a liberal, socialist, or communist, and mix the three up into "just bad". This is what I mean about questioning the source and seeing if it is Truth or Truthiness.
Just for the record, I have never met a ticket I haven't split, which make me a middle of the roader. But the neocons would call me a liberal or socialist since I don't march and vote in lockstep with them. That makes what they call me Truthiness, not Truth.
Posted by: Epinephrine | September 26, 2008 10:30 PM
Eric:
We're not all in the USA, either. Canada is pretty liberal compared to the USA, not at all surprising that the Canadians here come across as liberals.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 10:31 PM
Ok then why make the suggestion that someone who is a practicing biology educator would even entertain Lysenko while tying that to communism (as weak a connection that is)? It reeks of "trollism".
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:36 PM
Red. I think the same does apply to Air America, The New York Times. and most of the cast of MSMBC.
And a socialist is some who wants to take my little bit of money and spend it on those who will vote for socialism.
In my opinion.
And by the way..what democrat was talking about taking Gov. control over the oil industry?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 10:41 PM
EricA, define socialism. I think you are doing it wrong. I want to see how wrong.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:43 PM
Lysenko was a product of good soviet political science. I thought the commies at Libros Revolucion might like to here about that little bit of soviet history.
After Stalin, well they tried to keep that mess quiet.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 10:46 PM
And your point was?
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:54 PM
Socialism supports to be a society where everyone is equal and the means of production and the whole of the economy is controled by the govt.
The problem is that untill energy, food and materal stuff is free...like in Star Trek..it won't work.
I'm not a slave.
But I think most liberals want me to be dependent on their
social controls.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 10:57 PM
As we have seen in the history of the CCCP, some people were a little more equal that others.
Posted by: Kel | September 26, 2008 10:59 PM
How many people here do you honestly think support a pure socialist government? Most people support a mixture between socialism and capitalism as it seems to be the most stable form of government out there. Taking one ideal is going to inevitable lead to chaos because it neglects human nature. We are social creatures and we need to work together. At the same time, we are individuals and not everyone's needs are the same. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who wants a purely socialist government, so don't just dismiss the people here as socialists because all you do is use your outdated misconceptions as a means to not listen.
Posted by: BobC | September 26, 2008 11:08 PM
Where is the thread about the debate which just ended a few minutes ago?
I never bothered to listen to Obama before tonight. He was much better than I imagined. Obama talked about the importance of science education, something McCain was obviously not interested in. Obama sounded very knowledgeable, and he had a lot of good ideas. McCain looked old. I bet most people who used to be undecided are now thinking about voting for Obama.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 11:10 PM
You appear to have found a textbook definition, and then derail it with illogic.
For example, in this country, are not all men are created equal and have equal rights under the law? Why then do you state in socialism all people are equal. They are now. However, by including that statement you seem to be implying that people aren't equal now. Which is the case?
Then you bring in slavery. There is no slavery in socialist countries like Sweden. To say or imply so is a bald faced lie. More illogic
Yes, things cost money. What does that have to do with the form of government? So few words, so much illogic.
About the only thing mentioned at this site that is even remotely socialist is universal health care. But most of the rest of the civilized world has UHC, so it isn't anything really socialist to talk about it.
You would help your cause if you could make a cogent argument without resorting to jingoism.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:14 PM
I used to work for Novozymes a Danish company. The American Factory produced twice the profits than the location in denmark with one third of the work force and less that half the labor cost. Where did the company profits go?
The went mostly to the danish state. The company was forced
to pay more for each employee in denmark and have three times as many people doing less than the employees in the US.
We paid for their free health care.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 11:15 PM
Soviet yes, Communist no.
If you even think that Stalin was a "good communist" or that soviet practices were "good communism" you might want revisit your history. Sure some of the socialist aspects were prevalent but totalitarianism was the driving force, not communism as laid out by the original subscribers.
Stalin wasn't motivated by communism. He was motivated by paranoia, psychological problems brought on by a horrible childhood similar in many ways to Saddam Hussein and a drive for power. Lysenko was a product of this in many ways, but is in no way representative of socialism or for sure liberalism. Something you seem to have tried to make the connection.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:16 PM
Slavery is a social-economic system under which certain persons are deprived of personal freedom and compelled to work.
Posted by: Patricia | September 26, 2008 11:17 PM
Ray - Sorry I am ignorant of how to post a picture with links and such. Otherwise I would be proud to show you what a 57-93 Harley looks like. It has 1957 roll bars, iron jugs (held together by RUST), and a 1993 Zenith carb. The oil bag is off a Trumpet and the voltage regulator is a VW. The straight pipes are baton spiked, so it's totally illegal in my state (but of course it passes the baton test!) so the ol' gal sounds like Godzilla in full rut when you down shift between tall brick buildings. ;o)
I take a LOT of shit from men about the crap ass carb, but with Oregon altitudes it's the only one that works in mountains with out stopping to tinker. It's about 7 bikes cobbled into one.
Shit - now I'm a bike proud boaster.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | September 26, 2008 11:23 PM
EricA, what was the root cause of the difference in profitability? I bet there were other factors at work than those you mention. Unless, of course, the American factory wasn't paying for health and pension benefits for their workers, or were paying less than the prevailing wage. One big cause could be the Danish factory was both older and unionized. That is why one has to look at the total picture to determine the Truth from Truthiness.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:26 PM
I thought the commies at Libros Revolucion might like to hear about that little bit of soviet history.
Libros Revolucion
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 11:31 PM
Now you're just being belligerent.
Which is one of the characteristics of being a troll.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:37 PM
Novozmes duplicated their factory. Labor cost were lower in the US due to the pay rates the company had pay its Danish employees. They have a unionized workforce that had about a 70% income tax to pay.
Yet a smaller workforce produced more product with the same tools.
By the way, the excuse they told us why we couldn't get profit sharing was Danish law required such profits to go to the state. If its a lie , Novozymes told it.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:40 PM
Dear #60.
Did you go to the Libros Revolucion web site?
Looks to me like commies.
Posted by: Patricia | September 26, 2008 11:41 PM
Eric is small potatoes compared to the two trolls ol' Nick hooked this week...er, well one troll and one gi-normous Dungfish.
Can I nominate Nick Gotts for Hooker of the Week?
Posted by: Epinephrine | September 26, 2008 11:46 PM
We'll just take over this one :P
I thought it was overall Obama's debate, but I wished he hadn't been so polite - all the "Senator McCain is right about..." are going to be a nightmare.
Obama hit hard a few times, and I don't think McCain landed many hits. He was perhaps too polite and gentle, but I think he was clam and showed a lot of diplomacy (the bomb Iran song mention was a bit less diplomatic, though well deserved)
McCain basically said "what Senator Obama doesn't understand"" over and over, but it didn't make me believe him at all. That and refer to really old history, "in 1983, I something or othered". I'm actually baffled at how McCai supporters see it as a victory when all McCain did was refer to ancient stories and act like a jerk. Saying that someone doesn't understand over and over doesn't make them fail to understand - in fact, when they demonstrate understanding, it makes you look like a moron.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:47 PM
Application of the term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.
Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities. Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts -- hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls".[11]
Frequently, someone who has been labelled a troll by a group may seek to redeem their reputation by discrediting their opponents, for example by claiming that other members of the group are closed-minded, conspirators, or trolls themselves.
Recently, many websites have openly welcomed and encouraged trolling amongst their members
Wikipedia
Anyway goodnight and have wonderful dreams about BHO being president.
Posted by: Chuck | September 26, 2008 11:49 PM
Fallacy record from the debate:
McCain: 27
Obama: 4
Posted by: Epinephrine | September 26, 2008 11:50 PM
Typos...
Calm, not clam, and obviously McCain, not McCai...
Posted by: Minus | September 26, 2008 11:52 PM
PZ a CPA? I once knew a lawyer that was also a CPA, but this is the first time I ever heard of a biologist that was a CPA.
Wow.
Minus
Posted by: Kel | September 26, 2008 11:52 PM
Calling these people communists is trolling, or just ignorance manifested. You are either trying to get a rise out of them (trolling), or you are just an idiot. But not quite an idoit yet :PPosted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 26, 2008 11:53 PM
dear eric.
Commies or communists? Words have meaning, and yours is obvious.
ok fine.
not a troll.
Answer the rest of what I wrote.
Posted by: chuck | September 26, 2008 11:56 PM
The bookstore openly endorses communist literature. It's not trolling to suppose that they're communists. Don't be stupid.
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | September 26, 2008 11:58 PM
Dear #69
Please go to the Libros Revolucion web site.
You tell me about those people.
Posted by: chuck | September 27, 2008 12:00 AM
Kel, I'm embarrassed for you.
Just thought I'd let you know...
Posted by: chuck | September 27, 2008 12:03 AM
"Stalin wasn't motivated by communism."
Stupidest statement ever.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 27, 2008 12:05 AM
Yes it's obvious they are communists.
Eric suggesting that he's teaching them about communist history is hilarious.
The term commie vs. communist has a different meaning as applied and as a typical right wing slur.
People who are "commies" are anyone who thinks left of right wing policies according to many a loud screaming conservative but by definition are not Communists. So I was curious what he meant. Actual communists or commies as slurred by conservatives frequently. Eric has demonstrated a lack of knowledge on the subject throughout this post as shown in his whole lysenko string of comments.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 27, 2008 12:07 AM
Communism alone, or by majority.
Posted by: chuck | September 27, 2008 12:11 AM
Too late to backpedal, Reverend Dumb. It was a decidedly stupid thing to assert. Congrats.
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 27, 2008 12:15 AM
"But not quite an idoit yet :P "
Certainly maladroit though.
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 27, 2008 12:20 AM
"Anyway goodnight and have wonderful dreams about BHO being president."
Don't let the big bad communists getcha!
Posted by: BobC | September 27, 2008 12:22 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Live Vote: Who do you think won the first presidential debate?
295,055 responses
John McCain 35%
Barack Obama 51%
Tie 6.3%
Not sure 7.8%
I watched the debate. McCain did OK but Obama was much better. It's obvious Obama is more intelligent than McCain.
Posted by: Patricia | September 27, 2008 12:49 AM
I watched the debate. Howling and hurling furious comments at both candidates.
McCain surprised me. He was actually awake and answering the questions.
Obama disappointed me, he should have done better. It looks like he won't skewer McCain because he's afraid of offending the white vote and the VietNam era vote. He did however say science and education several times.
My parents are children of the 1930's they have both decided not to vote.
My husband is a VietNam era veteran, and I don't know how he will vote. Nader doesn't seem to give a fuck about me anymore so my vote is up for grabs, except that Palin is a complete christian nutcase.
Posted by: Brando | September 27, 2008 12:50 AM
I just got back from the talk at the bookstore. It was good - PZ's a masterful speaker. I only wish some of the folks in the audience would let him speak more. At times it became more of a free for all with long winded comments rather than questions, but I suppose that can't be all bad. I was only disappointed that I couldn't get my question about Evolutionary benefits to superstition...that and a plug about Physics, seeing how Sean Carroll and Jennifer Ouellette were in the audience.
The new "place for religion analogy" is no longer knitting...it's "masterbation"!
Posted by: Patricia | September 27, 2008 1:27 AM
What? Not knitting, now I am intrigued.
(although I only tat)
Posted by: Phil | September 27, 2008 1:34 AM
You had to pick the night of the Prez. debate didn't you? Oh well. Hope you have fun in the sun and go hang out at Book Soup or something.
Posted by: Patricia | September 27, 2008 1:55 AM
Good night sweethearts. ;o)
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | September 27, 2008 2:06 AM
Eric says, "But I think most liberals want me to be dependent on their social controls."
What the flaming hell do you know about what liberals want?
You're so full of shit it's amazing that you can detect a whif of any problem beyond your immediate vicinity, let alone all the many faults you pretend to nose out.
Posted by: Mike | September 27, 2008 2:35 AM
he best opportunity is tonight (Friday, 26 September)...
What's the second best opportunity, PZ? ;-) I just got home and am disappointed to miss the heresy!
Posted by: Escuerd | September 27, 2008 3:24 AM
PZ used masturbation to replace knitting as a model for the proper role of religion in society because although almost everyone engages in it, it's generally considered rude to do so in public. And as an audience-member noted, it's also problematic when someone gets so into it that they really think someone else is there.
Of course, I can see why people who actually believe in a magical meta-world don't find this acceptable. If I thought religion were an accurate portrayal of reality, I wouldn't either.
As for the bookstore, several of those associated with it were quite excited about the opportunity to evangelize for communism afterward (there was a decidedly religious flavor to one of their volunteers that I spoke to, anyway). Of course, that the hosts would see a talk by a prominent atheist as just a means to another end was to be expected.
I also wished one or two of the more vocal commenters would stop dominating the conversation with tangential topics. PZ was quite patient, but I think even he showed some signs of exasperation at this.
Posted by: PZ Myers | September 27, 2008 3:30 AM
Nah, I wasn't at all exasperated. Someone noted that the talk was a lot like the blog: I threw out leading ideas, and then there was a free-for-all as people argued over them. It was good and very entertaining.
Posted by: Susan | September 27, 2008 3:54 AM
I enjoyed the talk very much, too. It was interesting meeting real Communists. I liked the new analogy of religion to masturbation, but think this may be a one-way deal. [Religion is like masturbation, because... it feels good, is best done in private, etc. But masturbation is not like religion in that... there are no nifty monuments, it's rarely enjoyed in large groups, and, you know, the music is nowhere near as good.]
I was disappointed not to get a chance to tell PZ in person how much I enjoy his blog, but he was pretty much always surrounded by a huge group of fans. My feet hurt from wandering the streets of downtown LA trying to track down the Pharyngulites as they hopped from bar to bar, so when I finally found them, I snagged a seat in the smokiest place I've been in LA in a *really* long time, and discussed the realities of Communism with a (non-Pharyngulite) who had actually lived in some Communist countries.
It was interesting! It was smoky! I bought the T-shirt! Thanks for coming to LA, PZ.
Posted by: Micah | September 27, 2008 4:25 AM
It was a fun evening. The communists were indeed trying to get more converts; I left their newsletter in the bar, since I am not a communist, nor am I interested in communism. Still, one guy I talked to was pretty entertaining when he was on other subjects.
The talk itself was a lot of fun. PZ was very good, and the audience was very engaged. There was a lot of good back and forth (the masturbation analogy was pretty funny), and some contention about the appropriate role of humor in attacking religion.
I was wearing a 'Teach the Controversy' shirt with a picture of Discworld on it, which amused a lot of people (PZ included, I think). Ichthyic got some pictures of me after the talk, in which I look like a terrifying demon of some kind. I photograph very poorly. He was gleeful, of course. I am looking forward to seeing just how crazy I look when he gets them up.
I was sitting very close to Sastra, and we found ourselves agreeing a lot during the talk, then spent a good bit of the evening chatting. She an Ichthyic are both good people, as are a couple of others whose names escape me at the moment (introductions were made early in the evening and I am bad with names). PZ is pretty quiet in person, it turns out.
Overall, it was a great evening and totally worth the traffic. I am very much looking forward to tomorrow's talk by PZ.
Posted by: Kel | September 27, 2008 5:36 AM
Chuck, unless your last name is Palahniuk, I couldn't give a shit about what you think of me.