…and this is a 
We're all going to be rich!
Category: Creationism
Posted on: September 29, 2008 9:59 AM, by PZ Myers
No, that's not right. It would be selfish for us as individuals to take advantage of this incredible windfall.
A controversial creationist who successfully campaigned for Richard Dawkins' official website to be banned in Turkey has offered a multitrillion- pound challenge to scientists.
Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" - a sum roughly equal to £4.4trn.
I had to look up the exchange rate. That's $8,010,890,000,000. Eight trillion, ten billion, eight hundred and ninety million dollars. I could live reasonably comfortably on that.
Instead, though, I'm going to suggest something that will help out the entire country. The US government should immediately send a plane to pick up Mr Oktar, bring him to our country, and take him on a guided tour of the Smithsonian and the American Museum of Natural History, accompanied by Niles Eldredge, Kevin Padian, Jerry Coyne, Sean Carroll, and the entire scientific staff of those museums. Afterwards, they can accept the check from Mr Oktar, run down to the local bank and cash it, and use one trillion dollars to resolve the current financial crisis, seven trillion can be sunk immediately into the American educational system, and they can send the change left over to me as a reward for coming up with this brilliant plan.
Unless…
You don't think…
Adnan Oktar couldn't possibly be lying about how much money he has, could he? And he couldn't possibly by planning to weasel out of accepting any honest evidence, could he?
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Beth B. | September 29, 2008 10:04 AM
You'd think he could have afforded a better lawyer, were that the case.
Posted by: CosmicTeapot | September 29, 2008 10:05 AM
This depends on his definition of an intermediate-form fossil, I presume?
Thought so!
Posted by: Kel | September 29, 2008 10:05 AM
I think this is going to be like the Kent Hovind stunt; ultimately worthless but will be latched onto by fundies everywhere as proof evolution was made by the devil.
Posted by: tyaddow | September 29, 2008 10:06 AM
Brilliant plan, except that we don't have transitional fossils, no--we only have "kinds" that god has seen fit to let go extinct in the last 6,000 years of Earth history. Get your facts straight.
Posted by: Snark7 | September 29, 2008 10:08 AM
Well.... I guess Mr. Oktar could at least pay for a bit of tzhat debt by having his organs donated.
Posted by: Snark7 | September 29, 2008 10:10 AM
@#1: Beth, he wouldn't need a lawyer with this kind of money. He would've just bought turkey. And china. And some other countries. Like...all the rest of them.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | September 29, 2008 10:11 AM
What? A creationist lying? What a radical approach, Mr. Oktar!
Posted by: Tulse | September 29, 2008 10:14 AM
This sounds like a scheme Dr. Evil would have come up with: "I'll give you eight TRILLION dollars!"
Posted by: DangerAardvark | September 29, 2008 10:15 AM
Another asshole demanding crocaduck fossils. I wish he'd get eaten by a crocaduck.
Posted by: BdN | September 29, 2008 10:18 AM
And now, the Turkish publisher of The God Delusion may be going to jail : "Richard Dawkins' best-selling atheist manifesto The God Delusion was at the centre of a growing row over religious tolerance yesterday after the Turkish publishers of his book were threatened with legal action by prosecutors who accuse it of 'insulting believers'. Erol Karaaslan, the founder of the small publishing house Kuzey Publications, could face between six months and a year in jail for "inciting hatred and enmity"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dawkins-publisher-faces-jail-over-atheist-manifesto-761063.html
Posted by: BdN | September 29, 2008 10:21 AM
BTW, Oktar is Harun Yahya.
Posted by: JasonE | September 29, 2008 10:21 AM
Lutfen benni uldur!
Posted by: Cliff Hendroval | September 29, 2008 10:22 AM
I've always thought that one of the most common markers for a creationist is someone who can't grasp large numbers.
Posted by: DangerAardvark | September 29, 2008 10:25 AM
The money is clearly in metaphorical dollars, where every metaphorical dollar equals a thousand real dollars.
Posted by: bstark | September 29, 2008 10:29 AM
Maybe he's offering 10 trillion old Lira. They removed six zeroes in 2005.
I met people in France who were still reckoning in old Francs in the mid-1990s (France revalued the Franc in 1960). There was even a lottery specially tailored to senile old farts: It was called "Millionaire", and the first prize was 10,000 Francs.
Posted by: trj | September 29, 2008 10:32 AM
Probably a typo. He must have meant 10 trillion Zimbabwe dollars.
Posted by: Jams | September 29, 2008 10:32 AM
I thought everything was an intermediate form. I'm having trouble keeping my bogus creationist theories in a row. What does an intermediate-form look like again?
Posted by: Father Nature | September 29, 2008 10:34 AM
I will give TEN TRILLION DOLLARS to anyone who can present evidence that PROVES that even one case of divine creation has occured.
Your move Adnan.
Posted by: Jared | September 29, 2008 10:34 AM
I'd be reasonably comfortable with $5 million, that's less than one millionth of that...
Also, he'd be THE richest man in the world if he had that kind of money. He doesn't.
Posted by: Canuck | September 29, 2008 10:35 AM
If you needed any more evidence that this guy was a total nutter... Waving that kind of reward money around when he knows he couldn't pay...
Posted by: Gilgamesh | September 29, 2008 10:39 AM
Actually, I think there is even more money meant here. In the UK, their billion is the US's trillion. In that case, the creationist offers 4.4 *10^18 sterling pounds. But then again, the GDP of the world isn't even that much.
(World GDP ~55*10^12 US dollars)
Posted by: Ruben | September 29, 2008 10:45 AM
I'm shocked by your insinuation that he might be planning to weasel out. Shocked! And everybody knows true believers are honest and can't lie.
Huh wait a minute.
Now that I think about it.
Er, let me think this over again.
;)
Posted by: Mu | September 29, 2008 10:49 AM
There are probably old Turkish lira. Or the equivalent of $3.50.
Posted by: Ploon | September 29, 2008 10:54 AM
Can't call this Lying For Jesus. We need a moniker for non-christian creationist shenanigans. Mendacity/misdirection/misinformation for Mohamed? Antics for Allah? I could go on...
Posted by: Jefe | September 29, 2008 10:54 AM
Face it. He wants a fossilized crocoduck.
Posted by: ReDSHiFT | September 29, 2008 10:55 AM
Reminds me of a challenge some wankers put a while back about offering 10 million dollars to anyone that could prove them wrong about there being an afterlife. fallacious argument is fallacious
Posted by: Chris | September 29, 2008 10:56 AM
Of course he is not lying. He's a Muslim, not a Christian (creationist).
In Islam, salvation is determined by good work -- a Muslim lying to a non-Muslim is doing a good work, thus earning (the Muslim) salvation.
Which boils down to: if you're not a Muslim, he ain't lying. Even is he is.
Posted by: Tim H | September 29, 2008 10:56 AM
If we were to announce that we were going to spend $7 trillion on education, I'm afraid the only major change would be that all the Wall St geniuses that caused the current problems would quit their jobs and become teachers. Hardly a gain.
We could use the entire $8 trillion to pay off the national debt, and use the money we save on interest to fund education. But wait- $8 trillion isn't enough to pay off the debt.
Posted by: Hans | September 29, 2008 10:57 AM
PZ, your measly transitional fossils ain't gonna cut it. These people expect a full, complete, documented list of individuals, with birth records notarized and signed in triplicate, that shows exactly who begat whom, before they'll accept that evolution happened. Your Tiktaalik proves nothing to them.
Posted by: clinteas | September 29, 2008 10:58 AM
//anyone who produces a single intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution//
I love it when total utter failure to even begin to understand anything at all about evolution is on display like this.
Posted by: BobC | September 29, 2008 10:59 AM
Turkey and Idiot America have almost the same percentage of creationist retards.
Here's more evidence Americans are uneducated hicks:
Only 51% of Americans agree this incredibly stupid claim is false: The earliest humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs.
There is virtually no difference between Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists. Both groups are a disgrace to the human race. America needs a lot more 'pointing at Christian morons and laughing at them'.
Posted by: Anoymouse | September 29, 2008 11:02 AM
@21. Technically, you're right, the UK billion is 10^12. However, over the past 10-20 years or so, we've become infiltrated by the (significantly more useful) US billion (10^9), and by now almost nobody using 'billion' means 'a million million'.
Posted by: Philip1978 | September 29, 2008 11:03 AM
Can someone please inform me as to how a convicted prisoner and rapist can not only get RD.net banned in Turkey but also issue stupid challenges such as this one?
Someone will have to break him out of his cell or wait 3 years after his sentence has finished in order to get him his much needed tour of the Smithsonian and the American Museum of Natural History
Posted by: Cronan | September 29, 2008 11:05 AM
21: Nice idea, but unfortunately that usage of trillion is deprecated in the UK. Certainly, the whole financial industry uses the US definition, as does the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5128220.stm
Posted by: BdN | September 29, 2008 11:06 AM
He already promised "10m New Turkish Lira (approximately $8.2m" a few months back and it is completely impossible to provide him with what HE calls a transitional fossile :
"If evolution had taken place, then there should be millions of fossils showing that living things assumed their present forms on a stage-by-stage basis. The fossil record should contain strange creatures with organs not fully-developed, with pathological characteristics, with features belonging to many different species. Specimens unearthed from beneath the ground should bear the signs of a strange world like that of the Island of Dr Moreau, and fossils showing that strange creatures like those on the island had once existed should frequently be found."
"The fact is that the living things referred to as transitional forms by evolutionists would have been very odd-looking entities, with limbs protruding from the most unlikely places, with ears where their eyes ought to be, legs protruding from their ears, with fins on one side of their bodies and legs on the other."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/01/evolution.islam
Posted by: Gilgamesh | September 29, 2008 11:07 AM
@32 Thanks for the info
None the less, the creationist here is offering up about a seventh of the world's GDP, offering up more than 10 times the value of Turkey's GDP.
What a crock!
Posted by: BdN | September 29, 2008 11:10 AM
Oh, I forgot : ROTFL!!!
Posted by: lylebot | September 29, 2008 11:21 AM
When I saw the title, I thought this post was going to be about how some mega-churches may be in danger of losing their tax-exempt status (through their own actions, of course).
link
Posted by: MLE | September 29, 2008 11:23 AM
Fortunately, there are ways of forcing him to pay up. Mr Oktar is essentially offering a unilateral contract, which can be accepted merely by fulfilling its terms. Since "providing" probably does not require him to actually see the fossil in question, it would seem merely having such a fossil publicly available suffices. I'll suggest an immediate demand for payment, followed by a lawsuit, though you're only likely to get whatever he has, not the full ten trillion Lira. Once at trial, its up to a jury, and not Mr Oktar, to determine whether the contract terms are satisfied (aka the provided fossil is transitional and demonstrates evolution).He apparently will need a hell of a lawyer.
Posted by: Patricia | September 29, 2008 11:29 AM
That bet isn't worth sour owl shit.
I will wager something of real value.
Ten prime, plump, pullets to the first person to show up at my door with gawd.
Posted by: kraut | September 29, 2008 11:30 AM
"The fact is that the living things referred to as transitional forms by evolutionists would have been very odd-looking entities, with limbs protruding from the most unlikely places, with ears where their eyes ought to be, legs protruding from their ears, with fins on one side of their bodies and legs on the other."
I figured he had absolutely no clue about biology.
He is just another ill informed idiot.
I had not realized that the limbs in reptiles are attached at the head in contrast to us mammals.
It also shows how easy it is to evade a challenge - just make up your own definitions.
Posted by: magetoo | September 29, 2008 11:36 AM
Seeing as how RD.net was banned for a comment, one might be forgiven for thinking that this whole stunt is intended to generate negative comments regarding Oktar's intentions of ever paying up, followed by similar legal action directed against Scienceblogs and anyone else in the pro-science and skeptical blogosphere who might have slandered Mr. Oktar and his most generous offer; thus silencing a large number of critics in one fell swoop.
Of course, far be it from me to even suggest that such a despicable scheme is what is behind this unexpected move!
Posted by: DrFrank | September 29, 2008 11:51 AM
"The fact is that the living things referred to as transitional forms by evolutionists would have been very odd-looking entities, with limbs protruding from the most unlikely places, with ears where their eyes ought to be, legs protruding from their ears, with fins on one side of their bodies and legs on the other."
Would it actually have been possible to pack any more weapons-grade ignorance into a single sentence?
Posted by: elbuho | September 29, 2008 11:52 AM
My concern with this is that it will devalue the Randi million dollar challenge. No-one seriously believes Oktar has any intention of allowing anyone to win dollar one of his 'prize', and this perception may spread to the JREF prize if it gets referred to in articles on the Oktar prize.
Posted by: JStein | September 29, 2008 11:58 AM
Yeah, since Mr. Oktar has thus far denied all of the scientific evidence, I would imagine that this man has no intention of paying people.
Oh well... imagine the money I could have made for my new Porshe... I mean... country.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | September 29, 2008 11:58 AM
From Oktar's challenge,
There's a reason that that book is considered fiction.
Far be it for any creationist to understand the distinction...
Posted by: bsk | September 29, 2008 12:00 PM
I'm no biologist, but doesn't the (very much alive) duck-billed platypus exhibit both reptilian and mammalian features? Isn't that the very definition of a transitional form?
Posted by: VegeBrain | September 29, 2008 12:06 PM
Darn! I came to PZ Meyer's blog thinking I could quit my job and all I find is another creationist lie.
Posted by: QrazyQat | September 29, 2008 12:09 PM
I don't even get out of bed for less than a bazillion.
Posted by: SteveM | September 29, 2008 12:12 PM
My concern with this is that it will devalue the Randi million dollar challenge.
Except the Randi challenge is no more (or very soon to be no more). Randi announced that it was just taking too much time and it had been running long enough that its purpose had been served.
Posted by: jagannath | September 29, 2008 12:12 PM
The first question is not if he is lying or has no concept of numbers or any other issue regarding fossils. The main issue at hand is; "Show me the money!".
The challenge is moot up until the point he can prove he has the money and ability to pay up. After that we can show him the evidence, which he most likely ignores as any true ignoramus muslimus, subspecies of Ignoramus religus, but that too is beside the point without the cash.
Posted by: SteveM | September 29, 2008 12:15 PM
How is Archeopterix not a transitional form? Wings and feathers of a bird, tail and teeth of a lizard/dinosaur.
Posted by: Left_Wing_Fox | September 29, 2008 12:41 PM
Yeah... the annual revenue of the US federal government from all sources (Taxes, tariffs, interest payments, etc) comes to just over 2 Trillion dollars a year.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | September 29, 2008 12:58 PM
Nope. Wings, feathers, tail, and teeth of a particular type of dinosaur called a "bird." Just a particular type of bird that's no longer around.Posted by: cactusren | September 29, 2008 2:12 PM
Hmm...perhaps an embryologist or geneticist could create such animals, a la Dr. Moreau? Obviously, things like duckbilled platypi, Archeopterix, and Tiktaalik should qualify, but it seems he wouldn't consder them to be transitional. I say, fight dishonesty with dishonesty, and create something he actually wants to see. Of course he doesn't have as much money as he claims, but we could make him pay up as much as possible, and bankrupt the liar.
Posted by: The Hogfather | September 29, 2008 2:15 PM
Erm..... isn't every fossil an intermediate form though? Intermediate between one thing and something else. I want that money please. Bloody hell, if only Who Wants to be a Millionaire was that easy!
Posted by: The Hogfather | September 29, 2008 2:16 PM
Erm..... isn't every fossil an intermediate form though? Intermediate between one thing and something else. I want that money please. Bloody hell, if only Who Wants to be a Millionaire was that easy!
Posted by: The Hogfather | September 29, 2008 2:17 PM
Erm..... isn't every fossil an intermediate form though? Intermediate between one thing and something else. I want that money please. Bloody hell, if only Who Wants to be a Millionaire was that easy!
Posted by: Jonathan Rothwell | September 29, 2008 2:18 PM
Ooh, this guy's clever. (Well, at least in the trickery department.)
To understand this, you need to look at the wording:
It's impossible to prove something is transitional without another stage in the transition to prove it's going through that transition. He is demanding a single fossil. Although we can prove evolution with two or more fossils, we can't with a single fossil. Neither can you prove, by looking at a picture of an egg being cooked, whether the egg completed being cooked or whether the egg was always in a half-cooked state.
Very, very sneaky. 8 trillion dollars would be nice, though...
Posted by: kickstand | September 29, 2008 2:25 PM
Arcaeopteryx wins it.
http://skeletaldrawing.com/Archaeopteryx/archaeopteryx_WDC_small.jpg
Posted by: The Atheist Jew | September 29, 2008 2:33 PM
BobC, I'm not comfortable typing creationist retards all the time.
I prefer the shorter version: Cretards.
Posted by: Allahuekber | September 29, 2008 2:52 PM
Im from Turkey. Adnan Oktar is a perfect idiot.
He writes nonsense books and gives these books for free.
Posted by: Mete | September 29, 2008 3:02 PM
People, when he says 10 Trillion, he mean 10 million YTL, or around 8 million dollars. Although we've had a currency change in 2005, we still refer to "1 lira" as "a million".
Still, it's a nice amount of money and I'd like to lay my hands on that. Too bad I'm a good physicist and not a biologist.
Posted by: Snark7 | September 29, 2008 3:28 PM
#61 Cretards is very nice.... so, can we please call turkish creationist retards like Mr. Oktar/Yaya : Creturds ?
Posted by: Bas | September 29, 2008 3:39 PM
Nah, at current exchange rates that would be about 3 Euros and 50 cents :P
Posted by: Neural T | September 29, 2008 3:41 PM
"Afterwards, they can accept the check from Mr Oktar, run down to the local bank and" bounce it.
Posted by: Hnn | September 29, 2008 3:45 PM
Greetings from Turkey,
Adnan Oktar is a moron.
Have a nice day.
Posted by: WRMartin | September 29, 2008 3:51 PM
Harun Yahya - that's his name? More like the sound I made when the hot tea blasted out my nose.
Gesundheit!
[gathering towels to clean off my monitor and keyboard]
Memory starting to click in...
Yes, Rolling Stones live album: Get Yer Ya Ya's Out!
Special guest: Harun Yahya.
"Ya Ya" is old blues slang for ARSE. Coincidence? I think not.
Hey, Harun Yahya - put your Yahya (Turkish spelling) away.
Must. Stop. Now. - this is funny only in my head.
Posted by: oldtree | September 29, 2008 4:08 PM
headline reads;
Octopus Man wins 8 trillion dollar bet and saves America
Posted by: Jake Mcfly | September 29, 2008 4:17 PM
There is one thing missing in the article. There is not even one single transitional fossil in any of the natural history museums. My friends and I have seen many of the natural history museums. All the fossils within them certainly prove Creation.
Niles Eldredge also made a confession as such:
Darwin himself, ...prophesied that future generations of paleontologists would fill in these gaps by diligent search ...
One hundred and twenty years of paleontological research later, it has become abundantly clear that the fossil record will not confirm this part of Darwin's predictions. Nor is the problem a miserably poor record. The fossil record simply shows that this prediction is wrong. (Niles Eldredge & Ian Tattersall,
'The Myths of Human Evolution', 1982, pp. 45-46)
Posted by: kermit | September 29, 2008 4:52 PM
Jake McFly: All fossils are transitional, except those species which have gone extinct. The fossil record is not the strongest class of data supporting evolutionary theory, but if you want fossils, here ya go:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
I'd be interested to know how you think a 3MY old Lucy (australopithecus)fossil or 65MY old archaeopteryx "proves creation". Do you, like Harry Yahoo, think that transitional fossils should have legs where their eyes should be, and a wing on one side of the body?
Posted by: folderol | September 29, 2008 4:54 PM
What about married fossils? Fossils in long-term committed relationships? Do they count?
Also, re #70: Oh, puh-leeze. We won't even go into the "I've been in a natural history museum" thing. That's like Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her house.
Way to go with that 26-year-old reference, by the way. Cutting edge, that is.
Posted by: BdN | September 29, 2008 4:58 PM
Bad troll goes to rest...
Posted by: mlp | September 29, 2008 5:07 PM
How about Amphicyon, the appropriately named "ambiguous dog"?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | September 29, 2008 5:08 PM
Jake McFly is, of course, lying. Eldredge did not confess that fossils prove creation. He claimed they showed evolutionary change was intermittent, or "punctuated". Can a creationist ever post a comment which does not contain at least one bare-faced lie?
Posted by: Hen3ry | September 29, 2008 5:21 PM
It seems that he is convinced that evolution works like this:
http://www.collectedcurios.com/spiderandscorpion.html
No. 67 if it updates...
Posted by: Halil | September 29, 2008 7:03 PM
He meant he can give 10 trillion old liras,which makes 10 million new liras,which is like 8.1 million dollars,which he is able to pay actually..
Please at least be a little more careful about these things..
Posted by: Polyester Mather, D.D | September 29, 2008 7:40 PM
Let's offer The Discovery Institute Eleven Trillion in cash on arrival to move to Zimbabwe. By the time they alight, that should cover a Big Mac and a cab from the airport.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 7:55 PM
Please at least be a little more careful about these things..
ROFLMAO
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 8:03 PM
Harun Yahya - that's his name?
not exactly. His name is actually Adnan Oktar
Harun Yahya is a pseudonym of his, and I think has also been associated with his first creationist organization (now known as the "Science Research Foundation" - irony).
I think wiki has a brief overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_Yahya
I saw his "Atlas of Creation" while visiting Gary Hurd the other day.
I have to say... that tome has the highest production value, and likely cost, of any tome I have ever held in my hands. it even has little plastic 3-d inserts in the cover.
seriously, that book must cost a fortune to produce.
It's so bloody heavy I can't imagine adding it to my collection, however. Even for the humor value of the wonderful examples of fishing lures used as legitimate representations of actual organisms.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 8:09 PM
Can a creationist ever post a comment which does not contain at least one bare-faced lie?
my immediate thought was of course they can... but now that I think about it more, I'm not so sure.
so much denial and projection inherent in the creationist mind, it might really be a question of "can" instead of "will".
Posted by: jake mcfly | September 29, 2008 8:11 PM
Kermit: There are 100 million fossils unearthed, all of which are fully-formed beings with no transitional form characteristics. Not even a single one of them is a transitional form. This is why they have been concealed by Darwinists. You may see some of these fossils on www.atlasofcreation.com.
It is now acknowledged with certainty by the scientific world that Lucy is a species of ape. There are millions of similar ape fossils. In the wake of evolutionary speculations on Lucy, it was soon understood that it was not an intermediate and this was announced by the famous French Darwinist magazine Science et Vie under the headline "Adieu Lucy" (Goodbye Lucy). It was also understood that Archaeopteryx was not an intermediate either. Hoatzin, a similar bird to Archaeopteryx, is living today. It has claws just like Archaeopteryx did. Furthermore, a fossil bird, fully-formed and at the same age as Archaeopteryx, has been found. The fact that a fully-formed bird lived at that period invalidates all the theses about Archaeopteryx. You may check Harun Yahya's web site at:
http://www.harunyahya.com/books/darwinism/atlas_creation_II/atlas_creation_II_10.php
Today these are known by even secondary school students. It is most surprising that you don't.
It is not appropriate to post a comment here before reading Harun Yahya's book. First read Harun Yahya's books (www.harunyahya.com), then you will not feel the necessity to write a comment here anymore. These comments stem from ignorance.
Posted by: Monado | September 29, 2008 8:27 PM
I found you a nice transitional fossil between birds and dinosaurs.
Posted by: James F | September 29, 2008 8:27 PM
#68
It reminds me of a quote from Buckaroo Banzai:
"You are... John YaYa. And you... John Smallberries!"
Posted by: Shane Killian | September 29, 2008 8:35 PM
$8 trillion? Wow! That's almost enough to bail out the banking industry!
Posted by: Robert Byers | September 29, 2008 9:49 PM
This creationist says then you evolution thumpers should take him up.
A good chance to educate a increasingly sceptical public about evolution concepts.
Of coarse there are no intermediate fossils.
However what would be trotted out would be a fossilized dead creature , that was fully adapted to its world, said to be on its way to a new anatomical life.
When in fact its just fine and fixed, save for minor details, and going nowhere.
The geology record anyways is flawed in its presumptions it shows accumulation of time when actually it was a sudden instant collection.
Intermediate fossils need never be accepted by those already not persuaded by evolution. They are just snapshots in time.
Anyways boys go for it. Give your best three intermediates and call Turkey.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 9:54 PM
This is why they have been concealed by Darwinists.
and of course, Oktar can't produce them either, so he makes cheap plaster fakes of them.
ROFLMAO
damn, you guys take the proverbial cake.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 9:55 PM
Give your best three intermediates and call Turkey.
how bout not, and we just call YOU turkey?
turkey.
Posted by: Steve_C | September 29, 2008 9:58 PM
I love when the kooks crawl out of the woodworks.
"Nuh Uhhhh!!!!" Is such a great argument.
But please keep going. :)
Posted by: co | September 29, 2008 9:59 PM
#s 82 and 86: Poe? I can see 86 being one, but 82? Seems too convinced of his own creotardery to me.
Posted by: tresmal | September 29, 2008 10:31 PM
jake mcfly:"First read Harun Yahya's books (www.harunyahya.com), then you will not feel the necessity to write a comment here anymore. These comments stem from ignorance."
First you should learn a little about evolution before you post, or charges of ignorance will be, rightly, thrown at you. As for the thread topic, here is a good place to start:Transitional fossils.
co @90 No they're both real. Byers has commented here before and in his own mind, such as it is, his comment was a devastating riposte.
Posted by: Ultraman Ice | September 29, 2008 10:39 PM
You'd think that it would serve himself better to make it at least a marginally serious amount, like $100 million. Large enough to tempt, and small enough to actually exist.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | September 29, 2008 10:50 PM
The facts are true; the conclusions are stoopid.Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 11:00 PM
It is not appropriate to post a comment here before reading Harun Yahya's book.
I've held it in my hands, seen the ridiculous 3-d cover, and marveled at the pictures of obvious fish lures used to falsely display actual organisms.
does that count?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 29, 2008 11:03 PM
The facts are
true[used in a misleading way]; the conclusions are stoopid.thought I might take the liberty of amending that, if you don't mind.
Posted by: Kel | September 29, 2008 11:10 PM
Do you even know what a transitional form is? It's not a "missing link" or "common ancestor", it's a species that contains both characteristics of two distinct species.Archaeopteryx is indeed a transitional form, just as Tiktaalik is. The archaeopteryx has reptilian features not found in modern birds.
But of course when you believe in Creationism, you can make words mean whatever you want. Instead of using the scientific definition of a transitional form, you make your own then complain at science for not finding what you deem to be one.
Posted by: Kel | September 29, 2008 11:12 PM
The irony meter exploded!Posted by: SteveM | September 30, 2008 12:06 AM
The irony meter exploded!