…and this is a 
What must it be like to live in New Zealand?
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Posted on: September 30, 2008 8:31 AM, by PZ Myers
A recent survey in New Zealand reveals that only 40% of the people believe in a god, and 10% do but have doubts. Only 52% believe in an immortal soul, and 80% accept evolution. I marvel at that — a country where I would not be a member of a rare minority, where I could start a conversation with a stranger and reliably encounter someone who wasn't barking mad, where the populace doesn't believe in angels? Next you'll be telling me the streets are paved with gold.
It's not perfect. There are still lots of conspiracy theorists and UFO buffs and lucky number innumerates, but man, it's just that the background looks so much less cluttered with nonsense (they also found a positive correlation between god-belief and belief in the paranormal, unlike a recent deeply flawed survey in the US, which tried to get around this problem by redefining belief in angels and miracles as not paranormal.) You must take a look at the full summary to believe it.
And then…they have a museum where they carry out public dissections of giant squid.
I'm having a hard time imagining such a place. Paradise doesn't really exist, you know.
Comments
Posted by: Umilik | September 30, 2008 8:36 AM
But then eagain according to the article, 33% believe in witchcraft. Hardly a place of total enlightenment...
Posted by: DaveP | September 30, 2008 8:37 AM
I have been dreaming of going there for some time now.
Posted by: Michelle | September 30, 2008 8:38 AM
Then do they make you eat the squid? That'd be soooo cool.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 30, 2008 8:40 AM
You'd think that Ray Comfort would have stayed there. Seems that the percentage of souls that need to be saved is much higher there.
Sure there aren't as many people to sell the Way of the Master vids but that's not his real goal.....
Posted by: clinteas | September 30, 2008 8:40 AM
Got to be a reason the Ichthyic is moving there !
New Zealanders and Australians are,most of the time,refreshingly non-bullshit and based in reality,there is dimwits everywhere of course,but around here,they are the exemption,not the rule.
Posted by: Yet Another Happy Kiwi | September 30, 2008 8:43 AM
It really is that cool. I've been an atheist since I was 10, and all I ever did was argue with friends of mine who weren't yet.
There's still some vague belief, but generally we just can't be bothered believing in anything.
"You mean I there's a place that's better than this when I die? And there's a place that's worse than Australia? You're taking the piss!"
Posted by: Jacques | September 30, 2008 8:46 AM
I'm French (sorry for my bad english btw) and, in my country, the situation is quite the same :
* 34% of French citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
* 27% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
* 33% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_France#Statistics
The situation is not perfect (like in New Zealand) but, well, we are very far from what you live in USA. It is astonishing to see how religious are your leaders in America. No politician would dare speaking too much of his/her faith in France : he/she would be just ridiculous and looks like he/she is stupid.
Posted by: Matthew | September 30, 2008 8:47 AM
I moved to the US (from England) about 9 years ago and was absolutely SHOCKED that I was in the distinct minority and was not to be trusted due to my lack of belief of God. Then I found out about "Intelligent" Design and I was horrified! Finally, I found out about young earth creationism and the large amount of those fools out there and I was utterly depressed.
If I spent too much time thinking about how ignorant and foolish many Americans are, I would probably leave the country and head back to the "old country". However, I love this country too much to reduce the amount of sane people by one.
Posted by: SC | September 30, 2008 8:48 AM
Getting even more jealous of Ichthyic...
Posted by: Johnny Vector | September 30, 2008 8:49 AM
But... But... In New Zealand, the moon is upside-down! Driving on the left I could take. Sheep everywhere I could take. Bunny-hunts for Easter entertainment I could take. The moon being upside down was just weird!
Posted by: Brad.p | September 30, 2008 8:50 AM
First Country to give women the vote, the first to climb Everest, and it gave us the father of nuclear physics.
Posted by: bsk | September 30, 2008 8:53 AM
Unfortunately, sample sets collected online contain only people with internet access, who tend to have more education and higher incomes than those without.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/Articles/hhold-access-inet.htm
Posted by: amph | September 30, 2008 8:56 AM
..the moon is upside-down
No, wrong. The moon is the same, but the people are upside down, because they are standing on the wrong side of the globe.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | September 30, 2008 8:57 AM
On the one hand, they have hobbits and elves. I've seen a documentary on it, so it has to be true. On the other, they have orcs and evil wizards.
Seriously, I wonder if the Maori still consider it paradise. Things have changed for them over the last 300 years.
Posted by: m.s. | September 30, 2008 8:57 AM
Well, it seems Sweden is even better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden
Too bad I live in Italy (hope to move in the UK!)
Posted by: MH | September 30, 2008 9:03 AM
Michelle #3 wrote "Then do they make you eat the squid? That'd be soooo cool."
Only if you like the taste of formaldehyde.
Posted by: jxc100 | September 30, 2008 9:05 AM
How embarrassing for Kiwi's - Ray Comfort is one of us. Who knew? Although I remember the 'preaching' in Christchurch's Cathedral Square in the early 1980's - he was probably one of those, but not in the same class as The Wizard (I see he has an entry in Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_of_New_Zealand). I guess Ray Comfort gravitated to where he is now for a good reason. As for the 33% of witchcraft believers, I suspect this is more a new-agey kind of thing than a complete submergence in dark age nonsense. At least, I hope so, and I hope that observation has less negative connotations (ie, new age vs old age superstition)!
Posted by: Lightnin | September 30, 2008 9:07 AM
I remember seeing several earlier documentary series. Apprently the place is full of greek gods and demigods, and "warrior princesses".
Posted by: bsk | September 30, 2008 9:08 AM
And on a completely unrelated note, Congress isn't voting on a new bill to save credit markets today... because it's Rosh Hashanah.
If ever there were a reason to disqualify the religious from public office, this is it.
Posted by: Martin | September 30, 2008 9:10 AM
I'm not sure I'd call 80% believing in Evolution "impressive". Well, maybe compared to some other countries. In Norway I don't think you'd find many people who don't 'believe' in Evolution. Though of course, on the paper we'd look quite bad with the vast majority a member of the state church (everyone is automatically entered).
Posted by: Matthew | September 30, 2008 9:11 AM
No, wrong. The moon is the same, but the people are upside down, because they are standing on the wrong side of the globe.
Why don't they fall off?
Posted by: Gareth | September 30, 2008 9:12 AM
Yeah, but a significant proportion of New Zealanders believe that the new rugby union experimental law variations are a GOOD thing for the game.
So I wouldn't really trust what they think...
;o)
Posted by: Svetogorsk | September 30, 2008 9:15 AM
My wife went to a wedding in New Zealand, and said it was like a cross between Nebraska and Wales, but stuck in the 1950s. She wasn't keen.
Posted by: GunOfSod | September 30, 2008 9:15 AM
I was born and raised in NZ (left last year). I never had any issues with being identified as an Atheist there, in fact as the statistics indicate it was generally the norm (at least in my social circles).
I think the reason may be that, in general NZ'ers are very individualistic and incredibly cynical about anyone trying to exert authority over them (be careful trying to tell a NZ'er what to do). There are exceptions to the rule, and we have recently seen quite large growth in Born Again churches in Auckland preying on (to a large degree) recent Pacific island immigrants.
In General the mindset seems to be diametrically opposed to that in the US, whereby if you express strongly held religious beliefs, people will nod and smile and quietly feel sorry for you, the effect being that fundamentalist thinking is quite marginalised and widely criticised.
I have lived in a number of other countries over the years (UK, France, Ireland) and found that although people are generally the same, for some reason they just accept the churches authority over them, their schools etc.
NZ has historically been at the forefront of pushing the boundaries of the social zeitgeist (Womens Sufferage, Anti-Nuclear stance, anti smacking laws, homosexual law reform etc). The parliament is very diverse and includes an Agnostic Women Prime Minister (Helen Clarke, who I think is fantastic), A transsexual Mayor, A Rastafarian, A Muslim and several christians. I'm hoping the rest of the world catches up soon.
Ohh and Te Papa is a fantastic Museum, we were so lucky to have that on our doorsteps in Wellington. I spent many hours there with my children and always discovered something new. I'm hoping the new Marine Education centre in Wellington gets the go ahead for our return next year.
NZ FTW.
Posted by: Marc Abian | September 30, 2008 9:17 AM
Ireland's not bad either, apart from the weather. The first time I'd even heard that there were people who didn't believe in evolution was about 4 years ago. It was around the time of that kansas school board doing that thing which led to dover. In fact, it was that time, because that was incident in question. We all had a good laugh.
Posted by: PYRETTE | September 30, 2008 9:22 AM
Seriously PZ, get out of that nutty country, Austalia will be glad to have you (contrary to what most locals think, New Zealand is actually a state of Australia :P).
The Future of America (as i see it):
McCain will win the election. I know is seems stupid but you guys have got a good crop of stupid fresh for harvesting.
McCain will subsequently have a heart attack or cancer and die leaving Palin in charge.
All intelligent or educated Americans will see the oncoming doom and emigrate to Australia, Canada, Sweden or some other sane country.
Without out any intellectuals all universities will close, except for those run by religion. Prayer will become a valid (and infact the only) form of medicine, as well as a valid form of engineering, research, meteorology, food hygeine, and production. Disease and famine will run rampant.
With the economy now lower than the republican party's reputation and all infrastructure in ruin and flames the middle east will finally make good on its threats of revenge for the 8 year occupation and land enough bombs to sink the USA like the fabled Atlantis, to much glee from the rest of the world.
This situation is inevitable if McCain wins the election.
Posted by: Hank Fox | September 30, 2008 9:24 AM
Just FYI, PZ and others, Anton van Helden, a New Zealand cetacean biologist and very cool guy ...
(He's also a well-regarded stage magician, a stand-up improv comic, an atheist, and was an Orc in the Lord of the Rings movie!)
... is coming to the US in October, to Washington DC and New York City, accompanying a whale exhibit.
I know him through friend Carl Buell, who's done some illustration work for him.
I can get the exact dates if you're interested.
Posted by: Robert Davidson | September 30, 2008 9:24 AM
A bit of a worry, though, that so many of them (82% of women) have bought the conspiracy story that the Iraq war is about oil, when there is precious little evidence for that simplistic conclusion.
Also 35.7% (41% of women) believe in 9/11 conspiracies! A worry...
I'd love to see a comparison with my own country of Australia - I had always thought NZ was more religious, but this seems to indicate otherwise.
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | September 30, 2008 9:26 AM
Those icky New Zealanders, oh so perverted
Walking around on a world that's inverted;
The reason they don't simply fall into space
Is that Kiwis comprise a completely new race--
Walking around in December's high heat
With mutated, gecko-like soles on their feet!
It's a small price to pay, for no rants about sin--
And PZ and his tentacles... he'll fit right in!
Posted by: PYRETTE | September 30, 2008 9:27 AM
"There are exceptions to the rule, and we have recently seen quite large growth in Born Again churches in Auckland preying on (to a large degree) recent Pacific island immigrants."
Don't you mean 'Praying on'?
He he, word games are fun.
Posted by: Marc | September 30, 2008 9:27 AM
Umilink,
remember: the perfect ist the enemy of the good. Of course, I agree with you that belief in witchcraft is no more warranted than belief in angels, devils, gods etc...
However, with these Wiccans I am never really sure how many of them really belief in the "magick" and how many simply see it as a piece of ritual and symbolism which they enjoy.
On a more general note:
I think it might be helpful to cut down that tired old Christian propagandist line "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything" to the perhaps somewhat pessimistc, but definitly more truthful statement:
"People will believe in anything"
Posted by: BobC | September 30, 2008 9:33 AM
Every developed country in the world has a more educated and less insane population than America, but "Only 52% believe in an immortal soul" is still disgraceful. A person has to be totally nuts to believe in a soul.
Posted by: Eric | September 30, 2008 9:35 AM
Another thing to note about NZ:
You are *not* required (at least in Christchurch) to wear shoes or shirt every place you walk into. Oddly, you *are* required to wear slacks (not jeans) to discos.
There is a bar license for 24-hour bars(!). (Not every bar is 24-hour, but there's a couple in Christchurch - the Casino and The Jolly Poacher (at least there *were* beck in '98).)
There seems to be a pool hall every couple of blocks!
As a wonderful way of recycling; you can purchase beer or cider in re-fillable 2-liter bottles (for about NZ$5 plus deposit as I (imperfectly) recall).
The landscape is some of the most beautiful in the world!
Best of all, the people are *incredibly* friendly and welcoming!
I had the good fortune of being able to spend 6 weeks in NZ back in late '98.
cheers-
Eric
Posted by: Heather | September 30, 2008 9:35 AM
My brother and his wife emigrated there almost 3 years ago and would agree with Svestogorsk's sister in many respects. They like it, but I think will eventually come back to the US.
Biggest hangups are:
Cost of food (and the best stuff is reserved for export)
Lack of public transit and bicycle friendliness
Can't get much iTunes content there. At all.
~Insanely expensive internet & telephone~
That last one was nearly a deal breaker for them. I still need to save up to go visit. (Oh yeah-because it costs $$$$$ to get much of anywhere from there.)
Almost perfect otherwise, though!
Posted by: Jake | September 30, 2008 9:38 AM
Two very sad and very stupid words: Kenn Ham
Posted by: Robert Davidson | September 30, 2008 9:39 AM
Yis, ut uz a virry nice country, full of ebsolutely charming people wuth bleck sinses erv humour. I've vuzuted theer siveral times and hed a ball ivery time.
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 9:40 AM
New Zealand is just trying to make Australia look bad. It's like your Canada...
Posted by: Rob Davidson | September 30, 2008 9:41 AM
@#35 Jake - No, Ken Ham is regrettably from Brisbane, Australia (he has a science degree from the university where I teach in Brisbane).
But the banana-coke man is from NZ.
Posted by: Mrs Bastardley | September 30, 2008 9:42 AM
My husband (Australian) and I (Irish) are about fourteen days away from permanently relocating to New Zealand. Originally we holidayed there, and were absolutely amazed by the friendliness of people, and their general attitude toward, well, everything.
I'm certainly happy to hear those statistics!
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 9:48 AM
The one redeeming factor about the likes of Ken Ham or Ray Comfort is that while they were brought up in these great* island nations, they needed to go to America to find an audience. Surely someone can weave that into a message about global consumerism, it's too late at night here for me.
*excluding New Zealand
Posted by: Nikki | September 30, 2008 9:51 AM
Has anyone else noticed that the heading and description on the survey makes it sound like evolution and big bang theory are 'paranormal' beliefs? Either someone's a nutjob or he needs to get a better sub-editor.
Posted by: Susan | September 30, 2008 9:51 AM
My husband and I spent six weeks cruising around New Zealand in a motorhome 20 years ago, before marriage and kids, and wanted to emigrate. Other than a distinct (and lamentable) dearth of Mexican food, it seemed like paradise to us-- it was like California turned upside down, separated by oceans from anyone else, with only 3 million people (1 million all in one city). You could still buy gorgeous beachside homes. Unfortunately, they seemed pretty picky about who they take in.
Maybe we can retire there? I'll definitely explore that option if Palin gets anywhere near the nu cu lar button.
Posted by: Enzyme | September 30, 2008 9:53 AM
In New Zealand, most people believe in hobbits. The rest are hobbits - but they have personality issues.
This is proven by SCIENCE and 100% OF FACT. Oh, yes.
Posted by: Kel | September 30, 2008 9:54 AM
It's really hard to think of him with an actual science degree considering just how wrong he is on all things science.Posted by: AlanWCan | September 30, 2008 9:56 AM
...also first county to give women the vote (in 1893). They have proportional representation, so you get to vote for who you want instead of against the other guy...and they're not all guys either. Helen Clark has been PM since 1999, and she's the second PM with two X chromosomes they've had. Strangely pertinent in these days of historic almost-nomination of a woman on the democratic presidential ticket and all the BS about sexism surrounding caribou barbie in the US. Take that land of the free, where national suffrage didn't come until 1920, the UK where it took until 1928, and Switzerland until 1973!!!
Posted by: Nick Gotts | September 30, 2008 9:56 AM
A bit of a worry, though, that so many of them (82% of women) have bought the conspiracy story that the Iraq war is about oil, when there is precious little evidence for that simplistic conclusion. - Robert Davidson
Look at the PNAC document "Rebuilding America's Defences" (2000), which states that: "the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein". Recall that securing oil installations had top priority after the invasion. Look at the new "oil law" and the concessions it gives to foreign interests - unique in the Middle East. Remember that former members of the BUsh administration have stated that an invasion of Iraq was planned from day 1. Consider Alan Greenspan's words:
"I'm saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: The Iraq war is largely about oil."
Conspiracy theory? Precious little evidence? Those who claim it was not about oil often say "But it would have been easy just to buy the oil". This (deliberately) misses the point: it was not about access to oil, but about controlling as much of the world supply as possible.
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 30, 2008 10:00 AM
BobC@32: Looked at rationally immortal souls are much more obviously ridiculous even than belief in a specific god but I don't buy "totally nuts". Fear of death is obviously very deep (not to mention the extinction of humans and all evidence that we existed falling to the increase of entropy). It's not surprising that people cling on to any "Get out impermanence free" card that they are offered.
Posted by: John S. Wilkins | September 30, 2008 10:10 AM
They also still allow kids to let of fireworks on Guy Fawkes Day. If I had a choice of nations, I'd live in New Zealand, with income in Euros.
Posted by: katie | September 30, 2008 10:16 AM
I work for a coupla Kiwis...they tell me, in New Zealand, chiropractors aren't considered doctors either.
Posted by: Digitalgoldfish | September 30, 2008 10:21 AM
My Dad lives over there, and while they might not believe in a deity much, they sure as hell suck up all the woo.. Homeopathy is huge!
My Dad once said to me "I can prove Homeopathy works. My cat's taking it, and he's definitely less stressed!" This from an otherwise highly intelligent individual. In fact the cat died a month later as they weren't actually treating it with any drugs..go figure..!
Posted by: SC | September 30, 2008 10:21 AM
Thank you for giving me an excuse to link once again to Robert Newman's great History of Oil
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/music_satire.htm
(Scroll about 40% of the way down the page to find it.)
Posted by: E.V. | September 30, 2008 10:23 AM
So the world perceives the majority of Americans to be delusional greedy arrogant pious racist fuckwits. Hmmm. Perhaps it is because most Americans are delusional greedy arrogant pious racist fuckwits, y'know, but nice delusional greedy arrogant pious racist fuckwits. And we display it proudly via satellite to televisions around the globe.
Anyone up for watching the "E Channel"?
Posted by: Tempyra | September 30, 2008 10:25 AM
Heh. I am an atheist from New Zealand. And I had Steve O'Shea for a lecturer when I was at university there. How lucky am I? :-P
Posted by: Nicole TWN | September 30, 2008 10:25 AM
Matthew@21: They have special shoes with magnets in them.
No, seriously; I'm dying to visit New Zealand, but since I just took 4 weeks in Europe (family wedding), it'll have to wait another umpteen years. Which makes me Very Very Sad.
P.S. Kiwis! Please adopt me if McCain gets in! I am very friendly and a good cook.
Posted by: Steve | September 30, 2008 10:27 AM
So why did they boot Charles Pellegrino? As I understand it, he was forced out of his position because his views on evolution didn't jibe with religion or the mainstream of scientists...
Posted by: Jacques | September 30, 2008 10:55 AM
I have considered moving from Canada to NZ to get far away from all the lunacy in the US. Only problem is they don't speak any french which would probably be a deal breaker for the partner and my son.
Posted by: Ray D. Noper | September 30, 2008 10:56 AM
Well, I do not want to sound overly proud, but according to Wikipedia, the most non-religious country is Estonia... The weather, though, is not very different from Minnesota, as I understand, so NZ might be a better choice of relocation.
Posted by: Quiet_Desperation | September 30, 2008 10:59 AM
I can just show up in New Zealand and start living there, right? And your politicians will put my needs and concerns over those of legal citizens, right? And activist groups in Auckland will declare it a sanctuary city and hide me, yes? And I can *demand* you print everything in American English instead of those Elvish runes you use, correct?
What? You mean every country doesn't do it the way we do? Huh.
But seriously, it's a good time to be an engineer. Seems like every country is looking for engineers.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/
Posted by: Quiet_Desperation | September 30, 2008 11:02 AM
but since I just took 4 weeks in Europe (family wedding)
Wow! That must have been some wedding. What, did they read the whole Bible in Latin or something?
Posted by: Jivlain | September 30, 2008 11:14 AM
On the other hand, I was in New Zealand a couple of months ago, and I read on the front page of their major newspaper an article bemoaning the godlessness of us Aussies.
Posted by: robbrown | September 30, 2008 11:14 AM
San Francisco seems pretty much like that to me. I don't feel in the minority here at all. (although the spanish speaking populace is large and tends to be quite strongly catholic)
Posted by: Lightnin | September 30, 2008 11:15 AM
Yikes, I just re-read what I posted a little while ago, I think I need to get to bed.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | September 30, 2008 11:31 AM
Brad you forgot about the jetboat, the automatic rotary milking machine and the world's first practical 'jetpack'. Oh and a farmer in South Canterbury flew before the Wright Brothers. One of his aircraft with rotating propeller pods for VTOL hangs in MoTaT in Auckland.
There is the recognition that sitting a long way from anywhere at the arse end of the world means you have to do things yourself, they are not going to come to you. Allied with a refusal to recognise any suggestion that just because you are a long way from anywhere at the arse end of the world that means you cannot invent something new, or be the first man to run under 3:50 for the mile and the first to run 100 sub 4minute miles (I was there when he did it). That is what makes us great.
Posted by: Mrs Tilton | September 30, 2008 11:57 AM
Hate to shatter your revery, PZ. I'm sure New Zealand is a lovely place in many ways, but those stats hardly make it unique. Other than the US (and, apparently, Turkey!), lots of developed countries have lots of people with no religious beliefs to speak of (and lots of other people who have such beliefs but think them a private matter and have no desire to tell the rest how to believe or live).
And as Gareth notes @22, support for the ELVs is a sin only slightly less grave than creationism. Worse, in some ways: say what you will about creationists, but I have never yet met one who would let people deliberately collapse a maul.
Posted by: nipsey russell | September 30, 2008 12:00 PM
"redefining belief in angels and miracles as not paranormal"
at the barnes and noble in philadelphia (the one in PA!), in the childrens' section under non-fiction.....thats where they keep alll the bible related kids books...lots of them.
Posted by: Driftwood | September 30, 2008 12:02 PM
And Janet Frame is a lovely, lovely writer. Go pick up her three-volume memoirs and see.
Posted by: kiwisteve | September 30, 2008 12:07 PM
I'm playing under the ELV's in the UK at the moment (no free kicks, but collapsing is ok, no passing into the 22 etc).
Collapsing the maul is actually suprisingly hard, but effective if you get it right. So far (three games) there have been three yellow cards for fights caused by guys collapsing mauls.
I'm not sure it's a good thing, but it does change the game. Also, it is much faster. Our first ref accidentally went full ELV - free kicks and all - and it moved so fast. I still like old school rugby though - like the Pittsburgh Steelers - knock everyone else unconscious and walk to the tryline.
But then again, I'm a forward.
Oh, and NZ is paradise, which is why it's so boring we all move overseas for ten years.
Posted by: bo | September 30, 2008 12:20 PM
PZ, maybe you should look into Norway... :D
Posted by: Holbach | September 30, 2008 12:42 PM
As I have on several comments over a period of time, and with all things considered, I still choose New Zealand as my first country of immigration, with Norway a second choice.
Posted by: Katy | September 30, 2008 1:00 PM
My boyfriend is a Kiwi, whom I met while on a backpacking trip a couple years ago in NZ. I am fortunate to be able to get a work visa through him and move to NZ in June. If McCain/Insane are elected, it will be even more sweet. I love NZ and wish I could convince the rest of my family to relocate. Seeing that the population as a whole is way more tuned into reality is just icing on the cake. What a country!!!
Posted by: QrazyQat | September 30, 2008 1:02 PM
We went there for a month a few years back and loved it. Go during the shoulder season (we went in their fall, our spring, in other words, May). The hotels are much cheaper and so are the rental cars. At the airport look for the board with the phones and find a rental car place away from the airport cause they're way cheaper. At the time our dollar was strong and the rental, with the optional windshield breakage insurance, was less than US$500 for the month. We got one of the less expensive ones (it was a nice Toyota) which you could take on either island. You can get rental cars where you leave yours off in Wellington and pick up another on the South Island, and this might be the same price actually because the ferries between the islands are very expensive, and you have to make reservations for a car. We were used to our ferries up here where you just drive up and wait til the next sailing; 2 sailings if it's really busy on a holiday. Not there. They actually apologised for the price; they said they heard from everyone about their high ferry prices. If you get a different car on each island you can just get on easily.
Don't bother taking any guidebooks, the (many) tourist info places have loads of guidebooks for free, all the recreation, sightseeing, and accomodation info you need.
Accomodation has a wide range of prices, because there's backpacker dorms, hotel rooms with shared bathrooms, hotel rooms with private bathroom, sometimes all in one place. So you can look in the book and see a place with prices ranging from $12-125.
There's also campgrounds, which often have cabins. There's a lot of places where you bring your own bed linen, and they're cheaper; we didn't have all that stuff so we didn't stay at those. But you could go pretty cheap.
Dinner meals are a little expensive, but when you consider the dollar difference and the no tipping (no pennies either, BTW) it isn't all that much. Lunches are cheaper and esp. fish and chips are a bargain and really good. Breakfast and coffee range from expensive to outrageous (like a McDonald's breakfast meal for $12). Hotels usually give you coffee (instant, usually not the best either) tea, and a small carton of milk, so buy a couple of cheap bowls and some cereal. They usually have microwaves so you can do some cooking. For coffee on the outside get a capuccino, preferably at a McCafe which many McDonald's have; they're very good and cheaper than other places, and they have nice comfy seats and coffee shop type baked goods and all.
Driving on the left side of the road takes a little getting used to, quite a few one-lane bridges, and they have an odd rule on turns at intersections; your rental car comapny will have the info.
Nice roads (almost all two-laners) good drivers for the most part, and a very nice place. Odd accents from a North American perspective. Mostly nice people. An example: in Nelson on the South Island we stopped at a hotel after dark and couldn't find anyone around. There was a sign on the office that said come in and phone this number. So I called and firgured someone would come out and take our money and get us a room. The guy who answered said "are you sitting at the desk?" I said yes. He said "All right. Open the drawer on your left and there should be several keys there; I'd suggest taking the front room because it's bigger, and we'll be in in the morning to check you in."
Posted by: Amused | September 30, 2008 1:04 PM
It's funny, cos here in Sweden you sort of assume that the people you meet are atheists. 's not something you really think about, at least not I. Every now and then I hear that someone's friend of a friend is religious, always makes me lul.
I saw a priest (with a collar and everything!) walking the streets of Stockholm the other day. Wuz kinda like when you're at the zoo and get to see those exotic beast from the discovery channel in real life.
Posted by: jj | September 30, 2008 1:08 PM
According to Zuckerman's well known survey (see his chapter in "The Cambridge Companion to Atheism" [google book preview pdf] the top 10 least religious countries are:
1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic).
Surprisingly, Israel ranks a somewhat respectable 19th with up to 37% claiming to be non-believer, atheist, agnostic. Meanwhile, the US with it's sub-state of Dumbfuckistan ranks a lowly 44th. New Zealand's numbers are not even close to Sweden's.
Zuckerman concluded that:
Also see the online essay by Paul and Zuckerman "Why The Gods Are Not Winning"
Posted by: AnswersInGenitals | September 30, 2008 1:10 PM
Wife and I visited NZ twice for four months each time traveling by small motor home all over the islands. The country and people are absolutely fabulous. Can't wait to get back. Never discussed religion with anyone. I suspect most New Zealanders would wonder why anyone would want to discuss religion. To me , the most notable thing about NZ is Smith's bookstore on Manchester street in Christchurch, the greatest used book store in the world. Worth the trip all by itself. Four large floors of books stacked floor to ceiling. Now, that is heaven!
Posted by: jj | September 30, 2008 1:15 PM
Yep, a rationalist's paradise in more ways than one (blondes, summer, Stockholm, no religion = unbeatable). PZ needs to return to (or at least visit) his Nordic roots.
Posted by: Bob Evans | September 30, 2008 1:17 PM
@#63 "That is what makes us great"
What also endears your countrymen in the hearts of many Americans, Pete, is the fact that New Zealand was one of only six countries that fought side by side with the U.S. in the Vietnam war. Thirty-eight New Zealanders were killed in action during that conflict.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | September 30, 2008 1:24 PM
How, when Obama keeps leading in the polls?
Bullshit. If the US economy tanks, so does the economy of the rest of the world. The effects of the current bank crisis have already started crossing the Atlantic. The world economy is way too entangled that anyone could just stand by and watch.
No, Switzerland has a separate date for each canton and even each of the few half-cantons. The insanely conservative Appenzell-Innerrhoden came last... on... brace yourselves... 27 November 1990, when the federal Supreme Court forced them.
On the federal level it came in 1971.
Posted by: Jamie | September 30, 2008 1:25 PM
I don't have anything to add to the religious views of New Zealand, but I took my wife there for our honeymoon four years ago. We spent a fortnight driving around the South Island, and it was one of the most wonderful experiences of my life. I cannot recommend the place enough for a visit. Also, if anyone ever goes to Haast and visits the bar in the hotel, please try the fish and chips. It was the best I've ever tasted, and my country supposedly invented the dish...
Posted by: jj | September 30, 2008 1:28 PM
Hmmm, for me that counts as a strike against it. As it would with any country that allied the US in its criminal and unjustifiable invasions of southeast Asia and Iraq.
Posted by: Sparky | September 30, 2008 1:55 PM
Dang! I thought I was the only American who had the brilliant idea of moving to New Zealand if McCain gets elected. I mean, how can anybody resist this:
http://ginini.com/nz/cpg/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=0
or this:
http://ginini.com/nz/cpg/displayimage.php?album=9&pos=4
I'll have to get my paperwork together quickly to beat the rush...
Seriously, if Palin becomes president, it really is the final nail in the coffin of a once great country.
Posted by: Bagel | September 30, 2008 2:29 PM
New Zealand is a whole lot of awesome. Feels a bit like the '80s in some ways, but wonderful for its crazier-than-Australia wildlife, geothermal and tectonic insanity, and the obsession with all things vertical.
Of course on my last trip to NZ I had the 'Oh, so you *believe* in evolution' line from a lady working at Global Culture in the Auckland airport. A vocal (evangelical, Jehovah's Witness) part of that 20%....
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 2:43 PM
suddenly new zealand...
(only for those who have heard the song)
http://blog.occasionalgoat.net/song/
OTOH...
Stay away!
I saw it first.
:P
Posted by: EvilSteveL | September 30, 2008 2:45 PM
When I traveled in NZ, what I noticed immediately upon entering a new town was that I couldn't find the churches. Towns in the US and Europe are built around the local cathedrals; in NZ, the churches tend to be very modest affairs on side streets.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 2:49 PM
How, when Obama keeps leading in the polls?
shades of the 2000 election.
Gore was leading in the polls with around this much time to go, too, IIRC.
In fact, Gore won the popular election.
yet... here we sit, with Chimpy McGrin at the helm.
Posted by: Bob Evans | September 30, 2008 2:53 PM
@#79 "Hmmm, for me that counts as a strike against it. As it would with any country that allied the US in its criminal and unjustifiable invasions of southeast Asia and Iraq."
As an American veteran of that conflict, jj, my sentiment is entirely directed at the sacrifice of my brothers in arms. As an 18 year old draftee, I don't recall having reflected on the "criminal" invasion I was embarking upon.
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 30, 2008 2:57 PM
I'll have to get my paperwork together quickly to beat the rush...
didn't you know?
It, uh, takes YEARS to process the paperwork, and New Zealand HATES american/UK immigrants.
and, uh...
oh yeah! It's in the middle of a big recession, and all the kiwis are moving to Oz!
and, oh! New Zealand is planning to start up a draft for immigrants - you'll be forced to serve in the armed forces for at least 3 years... and you'll be invading Borneo (nasty place, full of cannibals and horrible disease carrying insects!).
and of course, let's not forget the zombie sheep, which outnumber the human populace by nearly an order of magnitude. Here's the documentary on this horrific state of affairs to prove it:
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi2998534425/
for the love of all that is good, stay away from New Zealand!!!!
:p