Pharyngula

Our local horror

If you think Sarah Palin is bad, try listening to
Michele Bachmann for seven minutes. This is her interview with Chris Matthews, in which she accuses swarms of people of being “Anti-American”.

One thing is amusing. Intermittently, Matthews tries to pin her down in her blanket screeds against liberals, and asks her to state specifically whether some Democrat is actually, literally anti-American. You can see her expression lock in place, her eyes stare blankly out, and you can imagine her tiny brain doing little shuddery spasms of confusion in the vast and roomy vault of her cranium…then <click> <reset> <reboot>, she glides right past the question and continues her imprecatory rant.

This is one of Minnesota’s representatives. Please, people in the 6th district, vote for Tinklenberg. It’s embarrassing to have this shrill munchkin in office here.

Comments

  1. #1 Ragutis
    October 17, 2008

    Dammit! I was just going to email this to you, PZ.

    Is guanophrenia a word? Can we make it one? Because she is flat-out batshit insane.

    Still, having folks like her and Buchanan ranting their fool heads off on Hardball day after day must be helping the progressive cause.

  2. #2 Nemo
    October 17, 2008

    I was watching that on MSNBC, and I had to turn away, lest I throw something at the TV.

  3. #3 funda62
    October 17, 2008

    Maybe I am naive but if he is “anti-American” why does he serve in American public office? Reminds me of the woman I once knew who thought “ex-patriot” meant someone who hated
    America.

  4. #4 Nerd of Redhead
    October 17, 2008

    Munchkin? Please don’t insult the little people. She is much smaller than that. Somehow gnat seems more appropriate.

  5. #5 LordJiro
    October 17, 2008

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/17/palin_clarifies_her_pro-americ.html

    Seems Palin feels similarly. Some places are more ‘American’ than places that don’t vote Republican others!

  6. #6 Thanny
    October 17, 2008

    I didn’t know human brains came that tiny.

    The Bachmann link at the beginning is broken.

  7. #7 The Science Pundit
    October 17, 2008

    PZ,

    Here’s the official NBC code in case the YouTube video gets taken down for copyright infringement. NBC has been pretty draconian lately about that stuff.

  8. #8 raven
    October 17, 2008

    Palin does the same thing. She was in N. Carolina and called them one of the most pro American states.

    Hmmm, well OK. Where are the anti American states located?

    Palin and Bachmann are just demogogues splicing words together for maximum emotional effect and minimum information transfer.

    One has to wonder why and at the citizens who elect these idiots.

  9. #9 The Science Pundit
    October 17, 2008

    Take #2:

    [iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27243547#27243547" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"][/iframe]

    Substitute “>” “]”for

  10. #10 Nick
    October 17, 2008

    I really don’t get this particular line of criticism against Obama–are they afraid he’s going to win the presidency, and then disband the military and invite terrorists over for a big barbecue? I mean, are the expecting him to resurrect the Weather Underground? Where is this supposed to be going?

  11. #11 harmlesstree
    October 17, 2008

    The ignorant useless, other than the labor power that is, right-wing morons in this country are generally the people who make this anti American charge, which is ironic. For if these anti Americans were to suddenly exit the United States of America, the country would fall apart – because of the flight of intellectual capital.

  12. #12 Ragutis
    October 17, 2008

    Rachel Maddow will be discussing this on her MSNBC show (9p.m.)

  13. #13 JM Inc.
    October 17, 2008

    Oh my god, you can actually see the gears grinding and the sparks flying like a Hollywood pyrotechnics crew put it together in there behind here eyes and smile. Holy shit that’s creepy.

    I’m very suspicious of people who think you have to be pro- or anti- a given nation, state, or group identity. It betrays a profound lack of understanding of the complexity of the social and political world in which we live. One thing I like about Canadian politics is that they bash the hell out of each other but nobody accuses the other person of being anti-Canadian. The closest you get is when they tell each other that that their opponents are incompetent to service the needs of the nation.

  14. #14 Rick R
    October 17, 2008

    You want hyperbole? Try this, from the American Patriarchy Assn.-

    “If the liberals win the upcoming election, America as we have known it will no longer exist. This country that we love, founded on Judeo-Christian values, will cease to exist and will be replaced by a secular state hostile to Christianity. This “city set on a hill” which our forefathers founded, will go dark. The damage will be deep and long lasting. It cannot be turned around in the next election, or the one after that, or by any election in the future. The damage will be permanent.”

    Michelle Bachmann is a piker. I wonder what Focus on Overthrowing the Government has to say?

  15. #15 Ghost of Minnesota
    October 17, 2008

    “What part of this country would you say is anti-American?”

    “I would say that it’s people who hold anti-American views.”

    How did this woman get elected in the first place?

  16. #16 Cliff
    October 17, 2008

    I saw this on Hardball this evening, but didn’t pay attention to her congressional district. So she’s one of yours, heh? Poor you. Can you say HUAC? I haven’t thought about that nasty little committee in a long time.

  17. #17 CalGeorge
    October 17, 2008

    Bachmann: “We associate with people who have similar ideas to us.”

    And that’s why you are a brainless moron.

    She refers to herself as “a fool for Christ” and once said that God “called me to run for Congress” and that God “focused like a laser beam” on her race for Congress.

    Bachmann once employed a bit of biblical inspiration in dismissing efforts to fight global warming to save the planet. She said: “We all know that someone did that over 2,000 years ago, they saved the planet…”

    http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/category/michele-bachmann/

    Way to go, Minnesota.

  18. #18 Avidor
    October 17, 2008

    Read about Bachmann’s Pardongate at Dump Bachmann and Greg Laden’s blog.

  19. #19 DarthChimay
    October 17, 2008

    To be fair, those pauses look more like a delay in the feed than her just sitting there, trying to figure out what to say. Don’t get me wrong – the words coming out of her mouth are idiotic and she shouldn’t be in any position of power (especially with her past).

  20. #20 harmlesstree
    October 17, 2008

    “Palin does the same thing. She was in N. Carolina and called them one of the most pro American states.”

    Palin is completely unaware of how ironic such a statement actually is, which is not surprising given her limited intellect. For it is profoundly anti American to attack states and locations in America in such away – for they are part of America.

    But we are talking about a movement that considers itself skeptical of the government/state, while at the same time maintaining that anyone who offers a critique of certain sectors of the state, i.e. the government’s foreign policy and military, is a traitor.

  21. #21 dr_igloo
    October 17, 2008

    “Shrill”??? I’ve got to call you out on this one PZ — describing her as “shrill” is sexist, in my view. I suffered through all 7:00 of that, and she was moronic, simple-minded, jaw-droppingly asinine, yes, absolutely. But she was not “shrill”, unless you consider all women’s voices shrill.

  22. #22 JStein
    October 17, 2008

    She’s a crazy right wing she-harpy. This is why Ann Coulter can’t be elected to congress, because we already have Bachman.

  23. #23 pcarini
    October 17, 2008

    I can’t stand Bachmann, and didn’t know anything about her until right after McCain announced Palin as his running mate. She does have what it takes to do well in politics, though, which is the ability to smile through a tough question and then change the subject.

  24. #24 mikecbraun
    October 17, 2008

    So by this logic, if you try to teach your kids right and wrong and are ashamed when they do something stupid, are you antichildren? Do you hate your children? I don’t get it. Taking an active interest in your country’s performance, wanting to see it do well, wanting to see it be regarded highly in the world, and being upset when your country behaves poorly is the most pro-American sentiment(s)I can think of. Doing whatever you want with no regard for international law and opinion, or with no regard even for a majority of your own public’s opinion, is not American at all.

    By the way, was this skank produced in a laboratory by inseminating Ann Coulter with the seed of Joseph McCarthy?

  25. #25 Bubba Sixpack
    October 17, 2008

    You think her brain was doing shuddery spasms of confusion, PZ? I think the only confusion was how to prevent the audience from reading the truth in her expression – Bachmann really does think liberals in general (defined as anyone to the left of Idi Amin based on her assessment of Obama being “far-left”) are anti-American.

  26. #26 mandydax
    October 17, 2008

    Wow, if she thinks that there are such people as anti-American US citizens, then she really doesn’t understand what being American is all about.

    In short, she’s really an asshole. I hate to go all ad hominem on her, but wow, that’s just a pile of steaming argument from repetition of ad hominem coming from her. Her argument has no merit, and as for her assertion that Obama hasn’t addressed his ties with White and Ayers, did she watch the same debate that I did? I wish I could vote against her. :(

  27. #27 Hal in Howell MI
    October 17, 2008

    If the liberals win the upcoming election, America as we have known it will no longer exist…

    Oh. please, please, please, make it so…

  28. #28 Betsy
    October 17, 2008

    The best revenge is to send her opponent money, right now. http://www.tinklenberg08.com/

  29. #29 Bill from MN
    October 17, 2008

    This woman is Bat-S**t crazy. I’ve heard her opponent has gotten 30k more in donations by people outraged by her comments.

    Didn’t we try this once before? Oh Yeah, it’s was called McCarthism!! Bat-S**t crazy I tell ya!

  30. #30 NJmikeV
    October 17, 2008

    I live in NJ. I just sent El $25 after seeing that obscene woman on TV. At about 9:15 eastern time Rachel Maddow on MSNBC reported that El Tinklenberg received over $30,000 today.

    Smooth move Michelle !

    OBAMA BIDEN TINKLENBERG 08 !!

  31. #31 Lago
    October 17, 2008

    You can’t blame her circuitry for her responses. Every robot is terrified of liberals because they are known to eat vacuum tubes.

  32. #32 Ragutis
    October 17, 2008

    Apparently, since Bachmann’s Hardball appearance 4 hours ago, Tinklenberg has received $30,000+ in campaign donations.

    It’ll be interesting to see if Bachmann is the next McCain surrogate to “disappear” or if this is the kind of thing they’re looking for and will keep her out there. Wouldn’t surprise me. And FFS, McCain is blaming Obama for the media attention Joe Samuel the $250,000 $40,000 plumber is getting. Because, you know, it was Barack that mentioned him 21 times at the debate.

    If I agreed with McCain’s policies 100%, I would not be able to bring myself to vote for him after he’s sunk to these tactics, the same ones that slandered him and sunk his 2000 campaign, the same ones he decried as hateful, dishonorable, and beneath contempt. Obama joked that Fox accused him of fathering two African American babies, but I’m just waiting for the “Lock up yer daughters! Obama wants our white wimmin!” shoe to drop.

    Anyone else see where the radio host claimed that the Ohio state flag was actually Obama’s and a sign of his megalomania and intent to become dictator?

  33. #33 Susan
    October 17, 2008

    Tristero on Hullabaloo blogged about this. I went here and donated to her opponent:

    http://www.actblue.com/page/red2bluemn

    I wish I could vote against her, too.

  34. #34 Timo
    October 17, 2008

    Hi, I’m writing from Finland and I’m stunned about how low the American self asteem is at the moment. It seemes strange to me that someone can be called anti-american just for being sceptical of made political decisions. Also, I hate to say it, but the repeated catch phrase of the US being the number one nation and by far the best in the world is beyond cheesy. I thaught Finns have a poor national self asteem. One Margareth Thacher once said If you need to say you are a fine lady you probably aren’t one.

    Where is the civilised discource, the REAL debates and comparing of actual policies? The debates are more like comedy central’s celebrity roasts.

  35. #35 LawnBoy
    October 17, 2008

    Ack! I’d never looked at where her district actually was. I grew up in that district, and my parents still live there. I’m 99% sure my parents voted for her last time.

    Yuck.

  36. #36 Jacquelyn Bockius
    October 17, 2008

    I love Minnesota, been there, it’s beautiful I have relatives there who are charming and I love them, and the people in general are sooo nice! How can you have this NUT representing you??? I am a veteran, a patriot, I LOVE MY COUNTRY, and I am voting for Senator Obama. Does that make me anti-American? SHAME on this crazy woman!!!!

    GET HER OUT! She is a repulsive mental-case witch! I am extremely insulted!

  37. #37 Jacquelyn Bockius
    October 17, 2008

    Michelle Obama’s statement reflects how millions of us feel. I LOVE MY COUNTRY, but I am NOT PROUD of it. I am ashamed of what George W Bush has done in 8 years of “leadership”. He has degraded all of us, and he should be criminally procecuted for his acts against our country. I FEEL EATL like Michelle, and I too am proud of supporting Barack Obama! He will lead our country to greatness again!

    Bug out Bachman!

  38. #38 me
    October 17, 2008

    I wish he had asked her if she wants the House Committee on Un-American Activities to return and investigate and expose Anti-American Congressman.

  39. #39 Bill
    October 17, 2008

    My girlfriend and I watched this on MSNBC and I mentioned to her during the interview, “I bet PZ mentions this.” I also just donated to Tinklenberg.

  40. #40 ThinkingApe
    October 17, 2008

    mikecbraun #24: You got it. True patriots can recognize their county’s faults, and then strive to fix them.

    I find it odd watchig American news sometimes, because I often hear people with pretty far-right ideals (like that Coulter broad), but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything more than slightly left-of-centre, let alone far-left. Are there any actual far-left intellectuals on the news down there?

  41. #41 MichiganGuy
    October 17, 2008

    I just donated to her opponents campaign. I hate spending money on this stuff but that lady has to go.

    Tinklenberg. He has a funny name but he looks sensible.

  42. #42 Ichthyic
    October 17, 2008

    Hmmm, well OK. Where are the anti American states located?

    which state was it where hockey fans booed her off the ice?

    that’s one of them, I’m sure.

    :p

  43. #43 me
    October 17, 2008

    which state was it where hockey fans booed her off the ice?

    Pennsylvania, but only if McCain loses there.

  44. #44 SteveC
    October 17, 2008

    Tweety should have asked her, “Are you familiar with the name, ‘Joseph McCarthy?’”

  45. #45 Ann
    October 17, 2008

    Timo, rest assured that a significant number of Americans also find that kind of rhetoric cheesy. It’s possible to love your country without also thinking it’s absolutely the best, most wonderful country in the entire history of human endeavor.
    But if you want the votes of conservatives, you certainly can’t say that!
    It reminds me of those similarly mindless “pep rallies” we had in high school before every football or basketball game. Our cheerleaders kept chanting “We’re Number One” regardless of our team’s actual performance.

  46. #46 Longtime Lurker
    October 17, 2008

    I bet Bernie Sanders throws a bottle at the T.V. every time he hears “most liberal senator” bandied about in an election year.

  47. #47 Mike Haubrich, FCD
    October 17, 2008

    Thanks to all of those who have donated to El Tinklenberg’s campaign. I will be out in her district tomorrow doorknocking and generally doing GOTV in this favor and we appreciate your help.

    It’s just do embarrassing to hear the words “Minnesota” and “Michele Bachmann” strung together.

  48. #48 eddie
    October 17, 2008

    I see Greg Laden is running a Bachmann Turn ‘er Over Drive.

    Y-y-y-you ain’t seen nuthin’ yet…

    *sorry*

  49. #49 Ragutis
    October 17, 2008

    Posted by: ThinkingApe | October 17, 2008 9:55 PM

    Are there any actual far-left intellectuals on the news down there?

    Not really. Not that I’m aware of. Certainly not mainstream. Maybe a few on radio somewhere, but Olbermann, Maddow, and the rest accused of being ultra-left are, as you say, much closer to center. In the political sphere, Kucinich is one of the few that I can think of that might genuinely be filed under “Left” in most countries. And I’ve heard some say that even he wouldn’t cut it. The Overton window here has been dragged consistently further and further to the right.

  50. #50 Mercurious
    October 17, 2008

    Just a bit of an update. On Tinklenberg’s Act Blue page Tinklenberg went from $2,500 to currently $53,000 in about 4 hours. That’s a lot of Blue love! DailyKos also has 3 Rec diaries up on the topic. This is going to get huge play.

  51. #51 Longtime Lurker
    October 17, 2008

    Sorry about posting again so soon… she managed to work Ward Churchill into this conversation, but she neglected to mention the evil, anti-American desecratin’ menace in her own backyard. You’re backsliding, dear professor!

    Re ThinkingAPe@40

    I find it odd watchig American news sometimes, because I often hear people with pretty far-right ideals (like that Coulter broad), but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything more than slightly left-of-centre, let alone far-left. Are there any actual far-left intellectuals on the news down there?

    The Overton Window has been shifted so far to the right in this country that Obama, a centrist, is seen as a radical leftist.

    Overton Overview
    http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=7504

  52. #52 Farb
    October 17, 2008

    Jeez, I just saw the footage of Bachmann pitching her hare-brained witch-hunt idea to Matthews on Maddow’s show. Man, this needs to be plastered across 6th District television screens for the next three weeks. They need to know exactly how poorly she is representing them.

    Remember the photos of her hiding behind the bushes during some rally opposed to one of her slimy projects while she was still a state senator? Perhaps it’s time for a list of Michelle Bachmann’s greatest hits. This steaming humanoid road-apple should roll back into some ditch.

    But then, you know you’re from the Midwest when you send someone to office to get them the hell out of town for a while. Maybe they have an ulterior motive?

  53. #53 bluescat48
    October 17, 2008

    First, just because a person is another’s friend doesn’t mean that they agree on everything. If I had to have friends that had all the same views as me, I’d have no friends. Second, why is it that conservatives imply that just because a person is liberal, he’s anti American.

  54. #54 abusedbypenguins
    October 17, 2008

    What does it mean to be “unamerican”? The 1st ammendment gives us the right of free speech so what ever any of us says even if it is “unamerican” is our right as Americans. To question any and all authority is our right as Americans. How can any action or speech ever be classified as “unamerican”? Unless it is perhaps done by an English person, French person, etc.

  55. #55 Moses
    October 17, 2008

    She has no brain.

  56. #56 clinteas
    October 17, 2008

    //What does it mean to be “unamerican”? //

    You know,for a German this has very interesting connotations.We used to say the same thing 70 years ago.

  57. #57 Porky Pine
    October 17, 2008

    I bet Stephanie Miller will be all over this Monday morning. :)

  58. #58 arachnophilia
    October 17, 2008

    i made it all of 36 seconds in before i shut it off. these clowns just make me angry. so if sarah palin is going to go for guilt-by-association, let’s look at who she pals around with.

    and since this election is primarily about the economy, who’s influencing her economic ideas? for instance, this anti-republican, rather socialist-sounding idea of government intervention to protect corporations that have committed fraud and racketeering. see, she’s made a few public appearances with someone who was involved in bailing out a savings-and-loan association that was under investigation by the regulatory committee for ripping off its bond holders. the same association that donated money to this person’s campaign finances. in the middle of the savings and loan crisis, less regulation failed, and even less regulation was not the answer, and this person was intrumental in trying to cover up failed economic policy, possibly due to the “donation.” associating with people like this does not speak well for her current ideals.

    this person’s name, btw, is john mccain.

    i figure that maybe if we keep bringing up the keating five, they’ll eventually get the idea that such tactics aren’t exactly fair. maybe, they’ll even figure out why. not the least of which are the person’s actions after said dark history. mccain eventually testified on the behalf of the bondholders, and spearheaded campaign finance reform.

    and if they don’t get that, just keep pointing out bush’s association with the bin laden family.

  59. #59 quantum cephalopod
    October 17, 2008

    PZ:

    Our local horror

    Excuse me?!?!?! You sexist pig!

    Oh wait… you said horror?

    Carry on.

  60. #60 clinteas
    October 17, 2008

    //just keep pointing out bush’s association with the bin laden family//

    Conspiracy theorist !!!!!

    I have to say I did not watch the video,because watching that cow on Larry King just creeps me out,that fake smile set in concrete and the shameless lies uttered with total conviction make me ill.

  61. #61 lkr
    October 17, 2008

    First the crazy “He’s an Arab” woman at the townhall, now Bachmann….

    What ever happened to “Minnesota Nice”?

  62. #62 Physicalist
    October 17, 2008

    There’s a campaign to have Congress censure Bachmann for these comments: http://www.censurebachmann.com/.

  63. #63 PYRETTE
    October 17, 2008

    It’s a joke, right?

    With McCain and Palin and now this nutter, does anyone else get the feeling that this might all just be some set up by the democrats so that they can’t possibly lose?
    No one can actually be serious about voting for these people, right?
    Oh wait, i forgot how stupid conservatives are. Every time the ‘They can’t be serious’ thought pops into my head i must repeat the mantra ‘Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush…’

  64. #64 Aquaria
    October 17, 2008

    Ah, who can forget another of Michelle’s…er…shining moments of stupidity:

    The Light Bulb choice bill.

    I kid you not.

    She put forth a bill to let Americans resist phasing out traditional light bulbs for more energy-efficient bulbs.

    The kicker: She said she was doing this because….

    Wait for it…

    “This is an issue of science over fads and fashions.”

    You can’t make up shit like this.

    Funny how these morons will invoke science when they think it might give their lunacy any credibility whatsoever, but being allowed to actually learn about science in school? Well, that’s something different!

    If I had the money, I’d send it to her opponent. I did last time. For all the good it did me.

  65. #65 MartinH
    October 17, 2008

    Since to criticize the USA is apparently to be anti-American, can we assume that anyone who opposes legally available abortion is anti-American? After all, this has been the law of the land for 35 years and is thus as American as half the population. And how about Government-run Social Security? An even more venerable American institution. How could any true-blooded patriot dream of changing that?

  66. #66 Randy
    October 17, 2008

    “Palin does the same thing. She was in N. Carolina and called them one of the most pro American states.”

    High irony, given that her husband belonged to the Alaska Independence Party, a secessionist group. Sarah spoke at their 2006 and 2008 conventions, before she got the VP nom. The Party of Lincoln, indeed.

  67. #67 Nephmon
    October 17, 2008

    I live in California. I’m not an American citizen. I can’t vote in the election. I watched that video. I sent my contribution to Tinkleberg. Mission accomplished, Michelle.

    (Plus, he’s called Tinkleberg. How could I not contribute to his campaign?)

  68. #68 dave
    October 18, 2008

    I’m sorry, but this has to be the most despicable woman I’ve ever seen in politics. If possible, maybe even slightly worse than Palin. Do you know how it feels a few seconds just before you have to vomit? That’s how I feel every time I see this woman – and that horrible feeling persists for minutes at a time! It’s torture. This woman is national health hazard.

  69. #69 Sioux Laris
    October 18, 2008

    I kept waiting for someone to slap a Mr. Gumby transparency over her crazy-eyed and -smiling form, then have her belt out:

    “MY BRAIN HURTS!!!”

    I’m “represented” by Congressman Herger (CA), who is a living example of the path to success described by Gilbert & Sullivan (“I always voted at my (“Republican”) party’s call and I never bothered thinking for myself at all!” [and if McCain somehow gets elected by crook, Herger has "thought so little" they'll likely award him a major position]).
    Watching Ms. Backmann or Mr. Inhofe makes me realize how (relatively) lucky I am.

  70. #70 Shaden Freud
    October 18, 2008

    #8 raven wrote:

    Hmmm, well OK. Where are the anti American states located?

    I think it’s those blue ones. With lots of elitist universities and so forth.

  71. #71 celdd
    October 18, 2008

    Nephmom:

    We appreciate your enthusiasm, but if you are not a US citizen, you are also not allowed to donate directly to political campaigns.

  72. #72 ABrit
    October 18, 2008

    I think all this un American rhetoric these days is just part of the bigger anti free speech culture that seems to be developing, which follows Bush thought “you are either with us or against us”.

    I really don’t get the USA, in the UK, politicians, satirists, comedians and anyone else pretty much say what they want, criticize what they want, in the most way out ways imaginable and I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say they are Un-British or anti British. People would laugh at anyone who said this because they know it is dangerous to play with such patriotic nonsense. Further most British people don’t need to prove they are British they just are, no one claims to hold the standard measurements for a citizen. And that is exactly how it should be.

    If the US wants to be a real country, and I am not talking economic and tech leadership, I am talking political, and moral leadership beyond the half arsed beacon of democracy, they you are going to have to grow up, and start following all those principals you hold (or did hold).

    Ta Ta

  73. #73 Ferrous Patella
    October 18, 2008

    Backmann does not get why Michelle Obama is only recently proud of her country?!? Spoken like a truly privileged whitey. Why is it that the total lack of empathy is such a hallmark for conservatives?

  74. #74 Annie
    October 18, 2008

    While you were all watching, I was reading. Charlie Savage ferreted out another Bush signing statement. This one may give PZ the need to nosh on some crackers to soothe his agita.

    This one allows religious discrimination in hiring for federally funded faith=based initiatives. I blogged about it (link at my name) and included a wee poll. Hope you’ll visit and take a spin. (There isn’t an option to choose the ten commandments, though)

  75. #75 The skepTick
    October 18, 2008

    Is that 2 second delay due to their communications setup, or does it take that long for her neurons to crank up? I would be interested in knowing what her definition of an American is. I suppose if you’re not Joe the plumber and you have even the slightest interest in preserving the Constitution, you’re probably not an American in her view.

  76. #76 Susan
    October 18, 2008

    #72

    If the US wants to be a real country, and I am not talking economic and tech leadership, I am talking political, and moral leadership

    On the plus side, we’ve done immigration/assimilation much better than most of the rest of the world. And, even as a causasian country, we might elect a black man as President. That’s pretty good, too!

  77. #77 raven
    October 18, 2008

    I’m sure Bachmann has a list of 50 or 500 Anti-Americans in the state department or NIH or somewhere. And would love to launch a witch hunt and root them out.

    This is just straight christofascism. She doesn’t really believe in democracy or civil rights. I could call her anti-American with a lot more justification. But a fruitbat religious kook is more accurate.

    You have to remember that people keep electing fruitbats like Palin or Bachmann. IIRC, her opponent is way behind in the polls.

  78. #78 Katkinkate
    October 18, 2008

    I take it the Weather Underground that I’ve heard mentioned recently isn’t this weather site. http://www.wunderground.com/

    I keep wondering what a bunch of weather geeks could do to terrorise people, beyond making up fake forcasts of violent weather. I know they can’t make violent weather.

  79. #79 Rey Fox
    October 18, 2008

    “”If the liberals win the upcoming election, America as we have known it will no longer exist.”

    America as THEY know it? Yes, yes, destroy. Toss it in the garbage can of history.

  80. #80 BlueIndependent
    October 18, 2008

    Humanity’s still got a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go…

  81. #81 Jenni
    October 18, 2008

    that was painful to watch

  82. #82 Rahne
    October 18, 2008

    At the very end, is she like promoting McCarthyism? Seriously?

  83. #83 Tucker
    October 18, 2008

    “negative view of the United States”?

    Does Mrs Bachmann not realize that only 11% of this country thinks it’s headed in the right direction? *Everyone* should have a negative view of the country.

  84. #84 shonny
    October 18, 2008

    HARDBALL???
    No, screwball!

    What these people do not see is that their rhetoric is as if straight out of the Stalinist witch hunts.
    Actually, most of these ‘conservatives’ would make excellent apparatchiks; same disdain for logic, democracy, decency and critical thinking.

  85. #85 alicia-logic
    October 18, 2008

    #77

    IIRC, her opponent is way behind in the polls.

    That depends whose poll you believe… DCCC polling puts El within 4 points of Bachmann with 15% still undecided.
    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/10/16/debate_sixth_district/?refid=0

    This MN-06 district resident’s fingers are crossed!

  86. #86 Nephmon
    October 18, 2008

    #71: Incorrect. As a legal permanent resident I have the same rights to contribute as a citizen. I just don’t get to vote. (Hmm, what was that about taxation without representation, again?)

    See, for example, http://tinyurl.com/639e7e

  87. #87 jeanette Garcia
    October 18, 2008

    Sweet, precious spaghetti monster, this woman had my head throbbing 15 seconds in. Thanks to the accident of my birth I’m a liberal. I like John F. Kennedy’s definition in this Acceptance Speech of the New York Liberal Party Nomination, September 14, 1960.

    “What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label ‘liberal?’ If by ‘Liberal’ they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer’s dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of ‘liberal.’ But if by a ‘Liberal’ they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a ‘Liberal,’ then I’m proud to say I’m a Liberal.”

  88. #88 Equisetum
    October 18, 2008

    @ #3:”Maybe I am naive but if he is “anti-American” why does he serve in American public office?”

    Because he’s part of a conspiracy to take over the government from within. “Bachman==McCarthy” kept running through my mind as I listened to this shit. That, and I kept wondering if she even realizes how fascist she sounds. I hate to be repetitive, but ‘bat-shit-insane’ really is the best diagnosis.

  89. #89 florian
    October 18, 2008

    US-Politics will be forever confusing me ;)

    “the most liberal senator”; “the third-most liberal” – do there exist actual lists, classifying politicians according to their liberality??

  90. #90 Luna
    October 18, 2008

    This disgrace of a woman really pissed off a lot of people who watched Hardball today. The good news to come of all this, of Tweety giving Bachmann enough rope to hang herself with, is that her Democratic opponent in Minnesota, El Tinklenberg, has been the recipient of money from a few thousand contributors just this evening, all because Bachmann had to spew her McCarthyesque hatred all over television.

    Tinklenberg has raked in $91,795 so far tonight. When this all started less than twelve hours ago, he was at approximately $2500, so she really unleashed an absolute shitstorm of Obama supporters’ fury without realizing what she did. All she had to do was open her creepy, smiling mouth and stare vacantly into the camera and people said, “No, that’s quite enough, thanks.”

    From what I understand, and my facts might be wrong here, he is only within about 4 points of her. This money might just be her campaign’s undoing if everyone contributes. Here is the link in case anyone was horrified by her remarks like I was.

    http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18660

    El Tinklenberg’s site, in case anyone is curious:

    http://www.tinklenberg08.com/

    Minnesota deserves a LOT better than Michele Bachmann and we have a chance to make that happen, even from afar!

  91. #91 wrpd
    October 18, 2008

    I tuned in to Harball about half-way through her rant. Her name wasn’t on the screen but I thought she looked familiar. She sounded completely insane. When her name popped up it all made sense, sort of, to me. It was like trying not to look at a train wreck. I fully expected her to start waving a sheet of paper with the names of the anti-Americans in Congress. I can’t wait to hear what Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert do with this on Monday.

  92. #92 The Chimp's Raging Id
    October 18, 2008

    What a complete lunatic!

    What I’d like to know is exactly what she means by “anti-American”? Is this a refusal to agree that everything that America does is great (suddenly the phrase “America, fuck yeah!” springs to mind)? To put it another way, is it the view that critiquing your own country is somehow dangerous, subversive and/or unpatriotic?

    Alternatively, does is being “anti-American” disagreeing with America’s core principles? If so, what or who defines these principles? Popular sentiment? Talking heads on TV? The Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

    I’d really like to know. I would say that I wished the interviewer had challenged her on this, but it’s obvious that she’s incapable of doing anything other than regurgitating Rovian taking points.

    I suspect that she and others who like to throw the “anti-American” epithet around are firmly in the first category. To me, this is the most dangerous and stupid form of patriotism imaginable. It serves as a way to keep the masses from questioning the actions of ruling elites and as such is a tool of totalitarianism.

    Finally, I’m sick of hearing mainstream American politicians being branded “leftist”. I doubt there’s anyone in Congress who fits this description. American politics are weighted strongly to the right of the rest of the world. Those who are so uninformed or indoctrinated to believe otherwise should make an effort to learn about and perhaps travel the rest of the world. They may find their views are in for a jarring adjustment.

  93. #94 dangeraardvark
    October 18, 2008

    @#93
    That was great, plus this comment from that page bears repeating:

    What is your name
    Sarah Palin
    What is your Quest
    The Whitehouse
    What newspapers do you read
    Uh, er, I don’t know— arrrrrgh

  94. #95 Keenacat
    October 18, 2008

    Congratulations, Republicans. You managed to make up your own Dolchsto▀legende (“stab-in-the-back legend” is not as catchy as the german phrase). With the slight difference that an US-Liberal is pretty far right of the german social democrats. And there is the absence of a serious world war, of course. You did a good job anyways. :)
    [/sarcasm]

    Watch out and take care of your country. To me, this sounds really scary.

  95. #96 Neil
    October 18, 2008

    I think that was the best one so far as well…I would say that mine about the Republican Inquisition was the best, but really…EVERYBODY expects the Republican Inquisition!

  96. #97 Fatpie42
    October 18, 2008

    Why are interviewers on American tv channels so awful? The most pressure they ever put on her was to ask “do you think there’s a connection between being a liberal and being anti-american?” Then they let her get away with saying yes and then just going off on her own rant again.

    What you really need is an American Jeremy Paxman. Here are some of his greatest hits. Check it out. You owe it to yourself:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCo7qbzEX3c&feature=related

  97. #98 benson bear
    October 18, 2008

    “Maybe I am naive but if he is “anti-American” why does he serve in American public office?”

    I would like to second the answer given above, but not from a sarcastic point of view: to subvert the government from within. I am not saying Obama is an anti-American who wants to subvert America from within, but it is a sensible explanation that some anti-Americans would really be motivated by such considerations. In fact, yes, communists were. I know communists personally who run for public office, albeit openly, (in Canada) and who have also given talks on their plans for infiltration of all the public institutions so that they will be well situated for action when the revolution comes.

  98. #99 Neil
    October 18, 2008

    How nice it must be, to have communists patiently waiting for the revolution…
    What we have in America are reactionary zealots who get elected through fear and jingoism, and then do their best to destroy our public institutions so that they can claim that our government is irrelevant, then substitute Supply Side Jesus for the rule of secular law…

  99. #100 shane
    October 18, 2008

    Every time someone mentions the Weather Underground I start singing “It’s rainin’ men… hallelujah…”. For a while I wondered what people had against The Weather Girls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWwyjmSbJPs

  100. #101 shane
    October 18, 2008

    benson bear @ #98

    “I know communists personally who run for public office, albeit openly, (in Canada) and who have also given talks on their plans for infiltration of all the public institutions so that they will be well situated for action when the revolution comes.”

    Not exactly infiltration by stealth or sleeper agents though is it.

  101. #102 shane
    October 18, 2008

    I suppose it all started when Pres. Bush said “You’re either with us or against us” and it has all gone down hill from there. Now these jumped up little douche bags have inflamed the rhetoric further. Fanning the flames of fear. They reek of fear now. They’re not afraid of liberals, or commies, or leftists, or terrorists. It is the fear of losing. They are so afraid of losing power they’re spinning any old shit. They’re wallowing in the stuff. They don’t care about the dividing the community or promoting hate. It is cynical, damaging and crap. Good luck America, you’ll need it.

    She does have nice teeth though.

  102. #103 bozone
    October 18, 2008

    This reminds me of Noam Chomsky’s answer to the Buffalo Beast when they asked him (facetiously), “Why do you hate America?”

    “I realize that the question is not intended seriously. However, there is a serious point lurking behind it. A crucial totalitarian principle is that the state is identified with the people, the culture, the society. For those who adopt that principle, criticism of the state is hatred of the country. In the old Soviet Union, for example, dissidents were condemned as “anti-Soviet” or “haters of Russia,” because they condemned policies of the Holy State. We, however, rightly regarded them as the people most dedicated to the welfare of the Russian people. The concept has biblical origins. King Ahab, the epitome of evil in the Bible, condemned the Prophet Elijah as a hater of Israel because he denounced the crimes of the evil king, who, like all totalitarians, identified state power–himself–with the society and people. Where there is a democratic culture, such a notion would be ridiculed. In Italy, for example, if someone were to publish a book called “the Anti-Italians,” denouncing people who dare to criticize government policy, people would collapse with ridicule. It is rather striking that in the US, such a book (of course full of outlandish lies) is reviewed seriously and treated with respect. The US is alone, to my knowledge, outside of totalitarian states, in that concepts like “hate America” or “anti-American” are adopted in the style of King Ahab and his totalitarian successors. That should trouble us.”

    I really, really hope this is the end of Bachman’s political career.

  103. #104 clinteas
    October 18, 2008

    She does have nice teeth though.

    No she doesnt.

    benson bear,@ 98 :

    I am not saying Obama is an anti-American who wants to subvert America from within, but it is a sensible explanation that some anti-Americans would really be motivated by such considerations

    And what exactly are some anti-Americans?You seem to be suffering from a bad case of communist angst mate,do you think the “communists” will come and eat your children,rape your wife and break your country? Then you should seek some therapy,its called projection.

  104. #105 jimmiraybob
    October 18, 2008

    Disgusting – this kind of simple-minded, reactionary, fascist thinking belongs at home….or a care facility….or that Russian island you can see from Alaska. As soon as I saw this last night I shipped Mr. Tinkleberg some good old fashioned American Visa love.

  105. #106 afterthought
    October 18, 2008

    In fact, yes, communists were. I know communists personally who run for public office, albeit openly, (in Canada) and who have also given talks on their plans for infiltration of all the public institutions so that they will be well situated for action when the revolution comes.

    You mean something like the Alaska Independence Party (AIP) infiltrating the established parties to advance their secessionist agenda? The Palins have very strong links to this party. Is that the kind of thing you mean?

  106. #107 benson bear
    October 18, 2008

    “You seem to be suffering from a bad case of communist angst”

    No, you seem to be suffering from a bad case of illiteracy. I never said or even suggested that I had any thoughts, let alone fears, that communists would do any of the things you list. What’s wrong with you?

  107. #108 +clinteas
    October 18, 2008

    What’s wrong with you?

    Nothing wrong with me,but youre a hypocrite.

    I know communists personally who run for public office, albeit openly, (in Canada) and who have also given talks on their plans for infiltration of all the public institutions so that they will be well situated for action when the revolution comes.

    So the communists are our problem?? They fucked up the ecomomy? Shit,and I was convinced it was them evil atheists !!

  108. #109 benson bear
    October 18, 2008

    From comment 98: “”the most liberal senator”; “the third-most liberal” – do there exist actual lists, classifying politicians according to their liberality??”

    “Liberality” is no doubt an essentially contested concept, but in this context, folks are referring to the National Journals annual vote rankings of senate members: nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/.

    So, unless your question was merely a rhetorical one, meant to suggest any such “actual list” would be essentially contestable, the answer is “yes”.

  109. #110 alex
    October 18, 2008

    she literally has one thing to say, and apparently can’t stop thinking (or talking) about it.
    the funniest thing for me was when she got all shocked about people calling America “imperfect”. heaven forbid!

  110. #111 Arnosium Upinarum
    October 18, 2008

    geez

    You said it earlier about her PZ: “aye aye aye”

    First, she is a classic NAG. Now I’ve got a terrible tooth-ache.

    This is a good example of the most common and virulent anti-American attitude that inflicts this Good Country of ours (warmed-over McCarthyism and the attack-politics he basically instituted) and aspirin won’t fix the pain.

    “I think that the people Barack Obama has been associating with are anti-American by and large, the people who are radical leftists, that’s the real question about Barack Obama…”

    “Take a look at these associations, Chris, add them all up, and this is the totality of the package that Barack Obama has been, in Sarah Palin’s words, ‘Palling around with’ – these are his friends – these are his associates – very troubling!”

    Delivered the whole time with a smile???? Is she in a beauty pageant undertaking the grueling question portion of the program too????

    It is to WRETCH on.

    One has to wonder what tune she will play when Obama becomes her president…and not appear to be overly contemptuous of her Commander in Chief.

    It might ruin her career if she’s not careful about identifying which current she ought to float along on. (Meaning, she doesn’t have EITHER a clue or any intention of properly REPRESENTING her consituen’s views. That’s a pretty lousy politician).

    Disgusting self-serving twirp.

    I wonder what it is that makes people in good states like Alaska and Minnesota vote in these good-for-nothing con-artists.

  111. #112 benson bear
    October 18, 2008

    From comment 106: “You mean something like the Alaska Independence Party (AIP) infiltrating the established parties to advance their secessionist agenda?” Yes.

    From comment 108: “Nothing wrong with me,but youre a hypocrite.
    So the communists are our problem?? They fucked up the ecomomy? Shit,and I was convinced it was them evil atheists !!” Once again, I never said they were anyone’s problem, did I? What is wrong with you?

  112. #113 clinteas
    October 18, 2008

    Something different and slightly OT,but very interesting :

    Olbermann on the Obama campaign’s request to investigate McCains claims of voter fraud :

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=X3WO7qYYFEQ

  113. #114 afterthought
    October 18, 2008

    One has to wonder what tune she will play when Obama becomes her president…and not appear to be overly contemptuous of her Commander in Chief.

    She is not in the military and therefore has no “Commander in Chief”. The president works for the people, the military is commanded by the president. This is a very important concept WRT American government and as much as “commander codpiece” would like to pretend otherwise, it is still the law of the land.

  114. #115 arachnophilia
    October 18, 2008

    @clinteas: (#60) re: bush and the bin ladens:

    Conspiracy theorist !!!!!

    nah, not really. just another not-entirely-accurate non-issue guilt-by-association kind of statement. it just sounds especially like “palling around with terrorists.”

    but i figure, if they can try to use crap like that, why can’t we? if only to show WHY it’s bullshit…

  115. #116 Teresa
    October 18, 2008

    Michele Bachmann is “Skipper” to Palin’s “Caribou Barbie”.

  116. #117 Mercurious
    October 18, 2008

    Elwyn Tinklenber says Thank you!

    A snip from his thank you over at DailyKos.

    Our phones haven’t stopped ringing. Many have called in to say they’re sorry they can only send money and wish they could be here to help. We want you to know what a difference your funds are making and that, thanks in part to your help, we are confident that we will be able to win this race. We are preparing to get out the vote on an unprecedented scale, and with supporters like you we will have the resources we need to get the job done.

  117. #118 doug livesey
    October 18, 2008

    Whenever I start feeling sorry for the state of British politics, I shall remember this & realise that it could be considerably worse.
    My condolences to all of you cerebrally active types across the pond.

  118. #119 raven
    October 18, 2008

    Anti American is a code word that the christofascists throw out a lot. Palin uses it also. They have others and use them a lot. One is “communist”, the other is “socialist”.

    Anti-American just means, “non christofascists with brains bigger than a walnut who don’t vote Theothuglican.”

    A lot of the rank and file haven’t bothered to update their buzz words, insults, and demonology and still use the older versions, “communists” and “socialists”. The lack of mental agility or ability to think is obvious among groups that are decades out of date. The cold war is over, we won, the Soviet Union doesn’t even exist and the Chinese own over a trillion dollars in US treasury bonds and supply us with huge quantities of cheap manufactured goods, at a profit of course.

  119. #120 mayhempix
    October 18, 2008

    They should call the movement to remove her the “Bachmann Turn Her Over Drive”.

  120. #121 ThirtyFiveUp
    October 18, 2008

    #32 Ragutis

    Whoa, the punchline is the win;
    “fathered two African American children IN WEDLOCK”

  121. #122 Joel
    October 18, 2008

    You folks are clearly right, anyone who says “God damn America” and anyone who plans the bombing of Government Buildings simply cannot be called anti-American.

  122. #123 raven
    October 18, 2008

    anyone who plans the bombing of Government Buildings simply cannot be called anti-American.

    You mean like Sarah Palin, the Theothuglican. Her husband is a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which calls for seccession from the USA. The founder openly hated the USA and was killed while trying to buy illegal explosives. Palin has appeared at their annual convention and addressed them several times, in 2006 and 2008.

    She also is on record as claiming god will destroy the earth and everbody on it including the USA, of course, in her lifetime. In her view, this is a Good Thing.

    Lets see, she is a fascist sympathizer married to a clown who wants to seccede from the USA and hopes the USA is destroyed soon. She is not only antiAmerican but anti-human as well.

  123. #124 foxfire
    October 18, 2008

    I saw this brainless bitch on Hardball yesterday. I actually screamed at my TV (so, what is it supposed to do – suddenly develop a return path?).

    Anyway, slim her down, dye her hair and Annie Coulter could have a twin. They both operate on the principle of having no faith in the shut-mouth-engage-brain approach.

    Go Tinklenberg – Although I know nothing about you, I do understand the concept of reaching the bottom of the barrel, where Bachmann seems to have settled in quite nicely.

  124. #125 Ehsan
    October 18, 2008

    If she thinks Nancy Pelosi and Barak Obama are far-left politicians, then what she thinks of people like Noam Chomsky?

    What sort of planet does she and the people like her live on?

  125. #126 Lee Picton
    October 18, 2008

    Until that Hardball appearance, I had never heard of this creature, as in, the sort of thing that leaps out of the chest of its victim in Alien. I didn’t think it was possible to be worse than the utterly appalling Sarah Palin.
    How does this formerly great country produce such retrograde humanoids? I am retired and on a fixed income so I couldn’t contribute much, but Visa sent along $10 on my behalf – and I’m from Maryland! BTW, I see that as of 11:15 PM last night the campaign raised an additional – wait for it – $86,000!

  126. #127 Jeanette
    October 18, 2008

    I think it is possible for actions and policies to be un-American or anti-American. Examples: McCarthyism is un-American. Forcing Christianity, or any religion, on those of us who don’t share those beliefs is un-American. These actions are in direct opposition to some of the finest of principles on which this country was founded, and are therefore un-American. They are in many cases also detrimental to this country, and are therefore anti-American, as well. The teaching of creationism in public school science classes, laws banning family planning, and many other examples show that it’s not necessary for anyone to blow up buildings in order to do serious harm to a country. Those who brag the most about their patriotism are often some of the worst traitors to this country, by trying to infringe on the rights of their fellow Americans.

  127. #128 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    October 18, 2008

    Wow. What a bunch of non sequiturs. In the middle of her rant about Barack Obama and his “associates” being anti-american, she throws in “Joe The Plumber”. I thought that the issue that Joe brought up was taxes, not americanism and anti-americanism.

    I guess I am amused be how ill defined everything she says really is. What is being an american? What positions makes a person anti-american. What it is about being “liberal” that makes a person untrustworthy and liable to be either a terrorist or a pal of terrorists. What Bachmann said was all buzz words devoid of true meaning. While I know that politicians make a habit of speaking in content less platitudes.

    She could have saved herself six minutes and fifty nine seconds of talking by simply saying her true message; Barack Osama is evil.

  128. #129 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    October 18, 2008

    Yes, that on purpose.

  129. #130 Richard Dawkins
    October 18, 2008

    As others here have remarked, the interviewer (when he could get a word past that awful voice) was positively remiss in not mentioning the Alaska Separatist connections of Sarah Palin. And also in not making the comparison to the House Unamerican Activities Committee. He seemed hell bent on simply getting her to repeat what she had already said, which she was happy to do. Two sadly missed opportunities.

  130. #131 Mia
    October 18, 2008

    Unlike McCain/Palin, who whip their supporters into a frenzy with their constant hate speech and then pretend they can’t understand why their crowds yell “Terrorist” and “Kill Him”, Obama always says, “Don’t boo, just vote.”

    Or, in this case, if you can’t vote, then donate money. I live in Florida, and I’ve sent Bachmann’s opponent $10. Everyone can afford $5 or $10 bucks.

    Watching Bachman’s surreal rant last night on Hardball was literally the most frightening thing I’ve EVER seen on TV in my entire lifetime! Are we witnessing a new era of McCarthyism? She actually referred to liberals as “anti-American”Ł and called for an investigation of Congress to search for and root out anti-American elected officials.

    Add this to Sarah Palin’s incendiary comments that Obama “pals around with terrorists”Ł and the McCain Campaign’s new robo calls claiming that Obama “worked closely” with a terrorist whose radical group “killed Americans” and you have a recipe for the next great American witch hunt and a call to violence against Obama and other “leftist” (anti-American) leaders.

    This is very dangerous rhetoric!!! Every American should study McCarthyism, read the Crucible, and send $$$$$$ to Bachman’s opponent (Tinklenberg) as soon as possible.

    Seriously, do it now! And, while you’re at it, send as much $$$$$$$$$ as you can to Obama to help him fight the smears. I just sent $50

  131. #132 mcpickard
    October 18, 2008

    In the last minute of the interview, Bachmann suggested that the media do an investigation into anti-Americanism.

    Let me get this straight, conservatives constantly whine about bias in the media because they perceive a liberal bias and it’s just oh so unfair to them. Really, all that means, is that conservatives object to the media inserting value judgments on facts and events – and rightly so.

    Ironically, Bachmann now demands that the media make such likewise value judgments. And how should the media determine who is pro-American or anti-American?

    Why, exactly what right-wing conservatives, like Bachmann, dictate.

  132. #133 Little Boots
    October 18, 2008

    She has no business being in congress, but I have to admit, I’m a little glad she is. When it comes to full on wingnut crazy, nobody bends it like Bachmann. She’s a guilty pleasure.

  133. #134 Nephmon
    October 18, 2008

    (Off topic) Mia@#131:

    Not sure how you got the control code +009D in your post, but for the “registered” symbol you probably want to use “&reg;” (without the quotes) which, if all goes well with this post, should display as ®…

    See http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_entities.asp for a list of other “entities” you can use in HTML, but YMMV as to whether they display correctly or not.

  134. #135 bio teacher
    October 18, 2008

    Yikes! Check this out! Federal aid can go to religious groups with discriminatory hiring practices!

    http://www.1115.org/2008/10/18/gonna-be-a-fun-three-months/

  135. #136 Mercurious
    October 18, 2008

    I actually disagree with you Richard. *gasp* HI Richard *regains composure* I think Chris did exactly the right thing. He handed her the rope and pointed her towards the tree, with the expected results caught on video.

  136. #137 Happy_Heretic
    October 18, 2008

    Wow. Just… wow. That level of malevolence may have just convinced me of evil. The entire population of Minnesota ought to hang their collective heads in shame.

    HH

  137. #138 nokin
    October 18, 2008

    Sadly, Ms. Bachmann is my representative here in MN. I felt sick to my stomach last election when she won. I literally felt nauseated. The fact that so many fellow Minnesotans actually vote for her has seemed to diminish my view of this great state.
    Please, if you can, donate to El Tinklenberg (http://www.tinklenberg08.com). We have to get this ignorant person out of her position of influence.

  138. #139 Eric Atkinson
    October 18, 2008

    Allright Mia, you convinced me. I was leaning towards Barr. but now I am going to vote for McCain.

    I’m not happy about it. But what really get to me is how the press not only is “in the tank” for Obama but how blatant they are about it. The media has done more “research” on joe the plummer in two days that they have done on Obama in two years.

    BTW, the “kill him” didn’t happen. http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html

  139. #140 Dancaban
    October 18, 2008

    She’s on the planet but clearly not of it.

  140. #141 Claudia
    October 18, 2008

    This woman has no idea what she’s talking about. Also, it annoyed me the way she said “menter”.

  141. #142 Dale Husband
    October 18, 2008

    Allright Mia, you convinced me. I was leaning towards Barr. but now I am going to vote for McCain.

    I’m not happy about it. But what really get to me is how the press not only is “in the tank” for Obama but how blatant they are about it. The media has done more “research” on joe the plummer in two days that they have done on Obama in two years.

    BTW, the “kill him” didn’t happen.

    One reporter mishears someone shouting at a McCain rally and that makes you pro-McCain and anti-Obama? And the comparison between Joe the plumber and Obama in terms of media treatment is simply baseless. I’ve seem plenty of Obama bashing all over the web. But if Joe the plumber is a fake, that should be exposed. Why are you against that?

  142. #143 Ichthyic
    October 18, 2008

    Why are you against that?

    because Eric is trolling.

    that’s all he does.

    engage at the detriment of your own intelligence.

    (IOW, just engaging him will kill more brain cells than a round of binge drinking)

  143. #144 Laser Potato
    October 18, 2008

    “BTW, the “kill him” didn’t happen.”
    O RLY?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFWahLTdUo

  144. #145 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    October 18, 2008

    Laser Potato, you can lead an ass to water but it will still try to kick you in the head. You see, Eric lives in the same cloudcuckooland as Bachmann.

  145. #146 KL
    October 18, 2008

    I was just going to reassure everyone that the US has always had these crazies, and thanks to the intertoobs, we now can hear what they say (they used to talk only with their imaginary friends) Alas, too bad, I just realized that this was on MSNBC, and this woman is an elected official. Maybe we are spiraling into Neverland? I grieve for my country.

  146. #147 Brian X
    October 18, 2008

    Politically incorrect, misogynistically loaded things we’re not allowed to say about Michelle Bachmann:

    -Bitch
    -Harpy
    -Skank
    -Shrill (she seems to have a rather normal, non-shrill voice)
    -Dingbat
    -Witch
    -Douchebag

    Politically correct things we are allowed to say about Michelle Bachmann:

    -Sellout
    -Hypocrite
    -McCarthyite
    -Theocrat
    -Climber
    -Attention whore
    -Jackass
    -Scumbag
    -[Dim|Fuck]wit
    -Shithead
    -Asshole

  147. #148 RM
    October 18, 2008

    She makes me feel a little better about what South Carolina sends to Washington. Even Lindsay Graham isn’t that nuts.

  148. #149 David Utidjian
    October 18, 2008

    I just watched the video. Is Michelle Bachmann actually a human being? I don’t think I have ever seen a real person do the Stepford Wife look quite so well.

    -DU-

  149. #150 Nick Gotts
    October 18, 2008

    Eric Atkinson,

    Still think McCain’s going to win?

  150. #151 Laser Potato
    October 18, 2008

    “Is Michelle Bachmann actually a human being? I don’t think I have ever seen a real person do the Stepford Wife look quite so well.”

    Slight nitpick: in the book, the Stepford Wives were merely brainwashed, while in the (original) movie, they were robotic doppelgangers. The godawful direct-to-TV sequels drop this aspect and make them brainwashed again, which is unfortunate, because replicants could have at least made those cinematic abortions INTERESTING.

  151. #152 Former PZ Student
    October 18, 2008

    I live in the 6th Congressional District and I will vote for Bachmann. I don’t like her McCarthyism talk, but she has done a wonderful job of protecting taxpayers.

    1. She started the Truth in Accounting Act. It basically states that the government needs to be fully transparent in all of its future expenses.

    2. She has voted to repeal the estate tax and reduce capital gains tax.

    3. People that describe her as frightening don’t really know her. I’ve personally met her. She has 5 children and is a foster parent to 23 children. They all love her and their father and none run away screaming in fright nor feel nauseated at her mere presence.

    I don’t resort to insults nor do I let them sway my vote.

    I won’t vote for Tinklenberg because of this (found in his website)

    “For years the federal government has shrugged its commitment to our public schools through underfunded mandates, shifting the burden to local property taxpayers. In 2007 there were 101 school levies on the ballot in Minnesota. This is not evidence of mismanagement; it simply shows the inability of our local schools to fulfill their obligations without adequate resources.”

    Our country spends over 16 trillion dollars a year on education…. 8.3% of GDP. That is more than any other country in the world and we’re still way behind in education on a global level. Throwing more money at it will not work and mismanagement is obviously dragging education down. This one issue tells me that his spending habits are far too loose…. the last thing I want is more taxes.

    I know I’m posting in a densely populated liberal blog, however, I am merely stating my opinion. I have to go to work now, so I won’t be able to respond to any criticisms until 4 a.m. or some time Sunday.

  152. #153 Hap
    October 18, 2008

    #125: I don’t think that she does think of Noam Chomsky. Though you could cut the last three words from the last sentence and it would also be an accurate characterization of Ms. Bachmann.

    #139: Well, I’ll be pickled and dipped in bleach. I would have sworn that you were going to vote for Nader this year. I am SO disappointed. I guess you didn’t find a good corner to stand on, after all.

  153. #154 mena
    October 18, 2008

    Wow, was she trying to do a Sarah Palin impersonation at the beginning of that spew of Stoopid?

  154. #155 Omega plus one
    October 18, 2008

    Slight nitpick: in the book, the Stepford Wives were merely brainwashed, while in the (original) movie, they were robotic doppelgangers.

    Which didn’t really make any sense, as even if the husbands were okay with the substitution, one would expect the children to notice if Mom were replaced by a glorified wind-up toy with a 400-word vocabulary.

    (and why kill the wives, why not just cheat on them with robotic hookers?)

    (and what about the protagonists two daughters? Was the father going to go to the trouble of raising them just to see them both snuffed immediately after their marriages?)

    (and what about “please give me the golf club”…and she JUST HANDS HIM THE @#$!@@ING CLUB!)

  155. #156 Observer
    October 18, 2008

    Former PZ Student,

    Fair enough, but would you be willing to call her office and let them know that this sort of rhetoric is unacceptible?

    If you’re not, then you can be fairly characterized as un-american.

  156. #157 Arnosium Upinarum
    October 18, 2008

    Afterthought #114:

    That constant retort drives me nuts.

    I – KNOW – THAT.

    Now go tell HER and most of her conservative buddies that. They’re are the ones who tend to labor under the delusion in a way that makes you think their president can order them around like a sargeant. Haven’t you noticed? They all treat the shrub that way.

    But that’s not the whole point either.

    Isn’t it even slightly reasonable for a voter to consider what qualifications a candidate has for her or his ‘Commander in Chief’ who will command her or his military forces? They’re all OURS you know.

    You want YOUR ‘Commander in Chief’ to command YOUR military forces with something resembling intelligence and stability, yes?

  157. #158 Omega plus one
    October 18, 2008

    Our country spends over 16 trillion dollars a year on education…. 8.3% of GDP.

    <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk> <headdesk>

  158. #159 Omega plus one
    October 18, 2008

    @157

    Dionysadorus: “Tell me, do you have a dog?”
    Ktessipus: “Yes, and bad one at that.”
    Dionysadorus: “And does he have puppies?”
    Ktessipus: “Yes, and they’re just like him.”
    Dionysadorus: “And so the dog is a father?”
    Ktessipus: “Yes.”
    Dionysadorus: “Well then, isn’t the dog yours?”
    Ktessipus: “Certainly.”
    Dionysadorus: “Then since he is a father and is yours, the dog turns out to be your father, and you are the brother of puppies, aren’t you?”

  159. #160 BK
    October 18, 2008

    What’s with the proliferation of the “batshit crazy” phrase. Enough already.

  160. #161 386sx
    October 18, 2008

    She wishes the news media would take a look and see how many people in congress are anti-american. What a cuckoo bird!

  161. #162 DangerAardvark
    October 18, 2008

    @158 Haha, I missed that from his post. I think he subscribes to the Oktar school of mathematics.

  162. #163 Reginald Selkirk
    October 18, 2008

    Matthews keeps asking her, “How many anti-Americans do you think there are in the U.S. Congress?”, and she apparently can’t remember the correct answer:
    Fiftyseven

    If this doesn’t make sense to you, you haven’t seen The Manchurian Candidate

  163. #164 Reginald Selkirk
    October 18, 2008

    Palin is scheduled to appear on Saturday Night Live tonight.

  164. #165 Dave J L
    October 18, 2008

    As an English guy it never ceases to amaze me every time I look on Pharyngula that I’m being introduced to yet another crazy right-wing moron in a position of political power in the US – seriously, how many of these nutters do you have in Government?!

    This anti-American thing also fascinates me endlessly; I know you guys possibly have a more established working definition of what your country stands for than many others but it’s hardly set in stone what being an American means – the idea that someone can be anti-American simply because they’re not cock-a-hoop about every right or wrong decision made in Government is just plain absurd.

  165. #166 Mercurious
    October 18, 2008

    DaveJL said:

    This anti-American thing also fascinates me endlessly; I know you guys possibly have a more established working definition of what your country stands for than many others but it’s hardly set in stone what being an American means – the idea that someone can be anti-American simply because they’re not cock-a-hoop about every right or wrong decision made in Government is just plain absurd.

    Welcome to ‘Murica.

  166. #167 Gustaf Sj÷blom
    October 18, 2008

    Whenever I see this kind of thing I’m simply beyond words. I simply cannot believe that this kind of thing could come about in my country (Sweden, also my reason for any grammar/spelling mistakes, sorry).

    This person shouldn’t in any reasonably educated country have any chance of being elected to any office of significant personal influence nor being able to participate in interviews like this without the interviewer saying that the persons unwillingness to address questions is unacceptable and shows disrespect to him, the media and the public that is watching it to such an extent that the only reasonable position for him is to encourage the voters to vote for whoever can actually answer questions.

    That was a long rambling sentence, but I had to let it be. Long sentences is often a result of trying to communicate something in detail and with passion which was my intent. I truly feel that it was the interviewers responsibility to point out that this was evasion and dogma. If you cannot say in “respectable media” that Sarah Palin and clones like this woman are ignoramuses when it comes to politics both national and international and even when it comes to everyday common sense issues and concepts, then media has utterly failed and the result can be just as bad as the taliban regime.

    Why? Because all the safeties have failed! Every single one. A person who thinks that what this woman says make any kind on sense might vote for her or persons like her and because of that the interviewers retorts are to mild. He need to call her out. He has to make her look as dumb as she is. He cannot be kind. He has to treat her with the same attitude he would a holocaust denier. If he doesn’t he is apart of the problem, even though he is against her!

    When I show videos like this to my friends the response is utter shock. They cannot believe what they are seeing. They think that it is a one of a kind thing, as if this or that clip/article is one of a kind and extreme. Simply put, I don’t know how to convince secular, atheistic and rational swedes to even grasp how deep this goes.

    The only reasonable solution that I can see is a renaissance of intellectualism. Demand explanations for every statement. Demand it as an absolute! If one person cannot give it on every issue then allow others to participate in debates since delegation is part of leadership. Sense and rationality must be allowed to take its course.

    When will intelligent Americans wake up? When will the rest of the educated world wake up? It seems obvious to me that the point is not reached when a person like Palin is an outsider to become the Vice President. Will it happened when such a person is the favorite to this post? How about the presidency itself?

    Where is the limit? Where is yours? Where is the medias? Is there any limit?

    I think the limit was passed the very second we allowed any argument that was not based in reason to begin with to stand unopposed. Because once we passed that border we had no reasonable line to defend.

  167. #168 prometheus
    October 18, 2008

    In the past day, thanks to Daily Kos and the good folks on the Internet, Tinklenberg has raised over $200K on Act Blue alone.

    http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18660

    I gave $50. C’mon people let’s see if we can get rid of Bachmann!

  168. #169 Nomad
    October 18, 2008

    Palin gave a speech at a meeting of a group that wants Alaska to secede from the USA, her husband is a member of that group, but because Obama served on a committee he must be anti american because someone else in that committee is a former radical.

    How the hell is this not splashed over all the papers? We hear endless talk about Obama having spent some time in the same room with a former radical and that that’s supposed to imply a similarity of ideals, Palin is married to a member of a group that wants Alaska to leave the union and what do we hear about it?

    We’ve truly entered another level of lunacy. I mean it was bad enough when the Republicans ran a platform of change in the 2004 election, as if they hadn’t been in power for the last four years and they were just asking for a chance to show what they could do, AND IT WORKED. Now we have a someone who has been anointed by an African witch doctor and tasked to infiltrate public schools as well as the government running as vice president and someone who had his head so far up the current president’s ass that he could have served as his personal proctologist running for president on a platform of change again.

    And they haven’t been laughed off the political stage for it.

    Gustaf, I agree with you. It’s time to start asking the hard questions and demanding answers based in reality. Unfortunately for your concept of an intellectualism renaissance the US is currently in the grip of a powerful wave of anti intellectualism. That was the moment when I lost all respect for Hillary Clinton, when she dismissed the objections of every economist who said that repealing the gas tax for the summer would do nothing to help gas prices and would only boost the profits of the oil companies. Her response was to call the economists intellectuals and insist that she knew better.

  169. #170 Eric Atkinson
    October 18, 2008

    How the hell is this not splashed over all the papers?

    Could it be that your statement isn’t true?
    Could it be?

    Yeah. the press is really hard on Obama.

  170. #171 Patricia
    October 18, 2008

    Eric the idiot troll, continues to be – an idiot troll.

  171. #172 Rick Schauer
    October 18, 2008

    M. Bachmann=holy shit…embarrassing all of
    Minnesota and the nation.

  172. #173 Rachel
    October 18, 2008

    For those of you who know German (and maybe others, too, because this might be pretty self-explanatory), you might enjoy this video clip that details what (or rather who) is really at work in these people’s brains…

  173. #174 pedant
    October 19, 2008

    #3: Reminds me of the woman I once knew who thought “ex-patriot” meant someone who hated America.

    Er…. it sort of does mean that actually, or, at least, it would mean someone who no longer loves their country.

    I think the word you have in mind (and, very likely the one she was confused about too) is “expatriate”: one who lives outside their native country (but might well still be quite fond of it). Of course, the pronunciation is similar (but not identical).

    Now please carry on with your hate fest for the clearly execrable Bachmann.

  174. #175 Azkyroth
    October 19, 2008

    You folks are clearly right, anyone who says “God damn America” and anyone who plans the bombing of Government Buildings simply cannot be called anti-American.

    “The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.” -H.L. Mencken

  175. #176 Azkyroth
    October 19, 2008

    Our country spends over 16 trillion dollars a year on education….

    The entire United States Federal Budget for 2007 was less than three trillion dollars. What evidence would you care to supply that it’s grown by that much?

  176. #177 Warren
    October 19, 2008

    Her expressions, in general, are remarkably similar to the glassy-eyed appearance of born-agains wishing to say with utter sincerity that Jesus made their lives better — you can see the active denial of reality behind the sheen of Pollyannaesque bullshit. They all have it. It’s endemic to them and a symptom of life in total denial of facts.

    “Most Americans are wild about America” … really, Ms. Bachmann? Got any stats to back that up?

    Yeah, I thought not.

    Ayers “Under the radar”? Hardly. Hillary Clinton brought it up six months ago, and Obama shut it down then. Case closed.

    The “reset” function, though, is just due to time lag over the satellite link; it takes about half a second from the moment the question is asked until the answer begins, and we see the answer beginning about a half second after that. It’s a function of the finite velocity of light and EM propagation in our universe.

    I don’t believe this suggests, however, anything about the velocity of thought in Ms. Bachmann’s brain, which can’t be measured, as obviously you can’t measure something that doesn’t exist in the first place.

  177. #178 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    October 19, 2008

    A fine example of Eric Atkinson’s unbeatable debating technique.

    How the hell is this not splashed over all the papers?

    Could it be that your statement isn’t true?
    Could it be?

    Yeah. the press is really hard on Obama.

    Ask a question. Any question. It really does not matter what the topic is. If the answer cannot be had between the time he types it out and posts it online, it means that everybody was stumped his question. Thus his point is proved.

    After all, no one was able answer his question Palin and Obama before he pressed the enter button. Thus proving the the MSM is taking it easy on Obama.

    I hear it is quite pleasant in Cloudcuckooland.

  178. #179 Mark Wisniewski
    October 19, 2008

    #97 said:
    Why are interviewers on American tv channels so awful? The most pressure they ever put on her was to ask “do you think there’s a connection between being a liberal and being anti-american?” Then they let her get away with saying yes and then just going off on her own rant again.

    A bit late, but if you want to get a thorough dissection of why our press corp is so awful, check out http://www.dailyhowler.com/ and go through the archives. Matthews is particularly singled out for utter awfulness.

  179. #180 Svetogorsk
    October 19, 2008

    I’ve been watching quite a bit of the US election coverage, and I’m astounded at how feeble the interviewers are. In my native Britain, if someone says something that’s ignorant, poorly thought-out, fautous or generally idiotic, this gets pounced on and ruthlessly highlighted during the actual interview, not afterwards. And if they don’t answer the question, it’s asked again.

    Jeremy Paxman is by no means the only person who does this – Brian Walden famously devoted a full half of an hour-long set-piece interview with the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to asking the same question repeatedly, to the point that her clear refusal to answer it became an eloquent enough response in itself.

    If the big set-piece Presidential debates had been moderated by a British interviewer, they’d have been very different – and, I suspect, rather more revealing. None of the candidates would have come out of it well, but Palin in particular would have been eaten alive.

  180. #181 FlameDuck
    October 19, 2008

    Two can play that game. McCain is a vivid supporter of Bush, and could certainly be described as paling around with him. The Bush family (more specifically Prescott Bush) had several assets seized by the US government under the Trading with the Enemy act in 1942. Additionally a parallel could be drawn to the way NSDAP pulled Germany out of the great depression, and the 700 billion nationalization of the US banks. Oh dear.

    So if the election really boils down to voting for a terrorist or a Nazi, well good thing I live in a country with Parliamentary democracy and more than 2 parties.

  181. #182 Alf
    October 19, 2008

    How is Al Franken doing in his Minnesota race?

  182. #183 michel
    October 19, 2008

    i really don’t get how these republicans keep saying that the american people have a right to have obama’s ties investigated and then go on to state the things that should be investigated as facts. i mean… wtf was that robo-call about???

  183. #184 eric
    October 19, 2008

    “One thing is amusing. Intermittently, Matthews tries to pin her down in her blanket screeds against liberals, and asks her to state specifically whether some Democrat is actually, literally anti-American.”

    This has it exactly backwards. It was she who was referring to Obama’s connections with specific people, and Matthews who was trying to make it a blanket statement about all liberals or Democrats.

  184. #185 Former PZ Student
    October 19, 2008

    #156 “Fair enough, but would you be willing to call her office and let them know that this sort of rhetoric is unacceptable?”

    I have called Gov Pawlenty several times and have only reached voicemail. I sent Bachmann two emails regarding the bailout and received a personalized response by mail. So I’ve been emailing, not calling.

    #158

    Sorry, my numbers were incomplete. I thought “Oh crap” during my drive to work yesterday. The U.S. has spent 16 trillion over the last 40 years, and today it is 8.3% GDP….which is still the highest.

    #176
    “The entire United States Federal Budget for 2007 was less than three trillion dollars. What evidence would you care to supply that it’s grown by that much?”

    Again, I apologize for my incomplete numbers. I was kind of in a rush to go to work.

  185. #186 Azkyroth
    October 19, 2008

    That makes a little more sense, but I still don’t find the argument convincing. “Heavily funding education hasn’t solved all its problems” doesn’t imply that withdrawing that funding is the answer. Having enough money is not an adequate condition to assure that American schools will perform well, but it is a necessary one.

  186. #187 David Utidjian
    October 20, 2008

    Former PZ Student:

    The U.S. has spent 16 trillion over the last 40 years, and today it is 8.3% GDP….which is still the highest.

    OK, so $16 trillion over the past 40 years (sources?), only 12 years of which have been under Democrat administrations. The remaining 28 years have been under Republican administrations. So what was the point of your throw-away figure regarding the future possibility of a Democrat administration?

    8.3% GDP?? sources? The highest numbers I have been able to find are in the 5.5 to 6% range for the US. Even lower if you look at what is spent privately vs publicly. As a percentage of GDP Cuba spends the most on education about 8.9% for 2007.

    What I DO know is that my local city property taxes are 54% for the local public schools. I have no idea what percentage of my state and federal taxes go towards education (primary through graduate.) I am sure it is much less than 54%. As a dollar amount 54% is about $5K in my area. This tells me that whoever is elected president of the US has very little to do with that $5K. Presumably if the next president spends more on education then that $5K number will go down… if the next president spends less then that $5K number will go up because my local district and taxes will have to make up the difference.

    If you are truly interested in how much is spent on education and where, take an interest in your local school district.

    Incidentally I have no kids of my own… but I want want my neighbors kids to have the best education that my (and their) money can buy.

    -DU-

  187. #188 Former PZ Student
    October 20, 2008

    #186 –

    I am not suggesting we reduce funding. I am suggesting we leave the funding alone and solve the problems before throwing more money at them. Particularly, I want more emphasis on science, philosophy, and economics and less emphasis on art, physical education, and social studies (these are just my preferences.)

    #187 –

    The source I used was the US Dept of Education. I apologize for not citing that earlier. Their recent tables contain data up to 2003 and at that time, the education GDP was 7.0%. The 8.6% has been extrapolated for 2008-2009. The following chart shows the US has spent more dollars per pupil ($8,900 primary and secondary)of all the G-8 countries, which are our competitors in the global education market (next highest being $7700).
    http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/IntlIndicators/index.asp?SectionNumber=1&SubSectionNumber=3&IndicatorNumber=101

    The US census Bureau released new information April 1, 2008 regarding the dollars spent per pupil in 2006. It has in fact increased to $9,138 per pupil (primary and secondary) and is still ahead of the other G-8 countries.

    http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/011747.html

    Remember, that dollar figure does not include higher education which is roughly three times higher according to the US Dept of Education Chart.

    The education GDP for Cuba that you cited at 8.9% is from the Global Digest of Education 2007 and it was referring to the global education budget. According to that digest, the US is tied with western Europe in using 28% of the global education budget, three times that of Cuba.

    My local taxes will most likely be increased this November. The school district in which I reside is asking for another 5.7 million to cover OPERATING expenses (lots of money was wasted by administration and only a few members have been fired). So, the district is starting to fix the problems, but they have a long way to go. I will vote for the operating levy until they get back on track, but then no more.

    Ultimately, the US spends more dollars per student than our global competitors (G-8) in education yet we are still behind in the education system. That tells me the system needs fixing, not more money.

  188. #189 Ex-drone
    October 20, 2008

    Was that an ad amicos attack against Obama instead of an ad hominem one?

  189. #190 David Utidjian
    October 20, 2008

    Former PZ student @ 188:

    Thanks for the linkages I will read up on those.

    How is your congresscritter (or mine) going to affect yours taxes with respect to the amounts we are paying now for primary and secondary education?

    If they bring in more federal money won’t that shift the burden off of your local taxes and possibly lower them?

    If they bring in less federal money won’t that shift the burden to your local tax base?

    If saving money and/or getting the biggest education bang-for-the buck is the goal what will your representative in the federal government have to do with it?

    -DU-

  190. #191 Natalie
    October 20, 2008

    A few people have suggested that the entire state should by ashamed for having Bachmann as a representative – actually, the only people who should be hanging their heads are the people in her district. I am represented by the secret turrist Muslim Keith Ellison, who destroyed the fabric of society by swearing his oath of office on a Koran. (The preceeding was sarcasm. Ellison has been a fine representative and is also a very nice person.)

    Alf, the MN Senate race is just about tied between the major party candidates (roughly 40% to 40%), with the remaining either undecided or voting for the Independent, Dean Barkely. The campaign has gotten kind of weird here – Franken has started using more of his comedy skills in his ads (and they are quite funny), while Coleman is trying to take the high road. He suspended all of his negative campaign ads (which has not stopped his supporters, such as the Chamber of Commerce and the national Republican Party), and he recently asked McCain to stop some of his more ridiculous negative assertions.

    My opinion of Coleman has actually increased during this election. I’m still not going to vote for him, but I think he’s changed a lot from his first run, when he was quite unfairly negative, IMO.

  191. #192 Former PZ Student
    October 20, 2008

    Correction to #188

    I wrote “8.6%” when I meant to write 8.3%. I didn’t proofread.

    #189

    “How is your congresscritter (or mine) going to affect yours taxes with respect to the amounts we are paying now for primary and secondary education?”

    According to the candidates’ websites, Tinklenburg wants to increase funding to levels he deems adequate and Bachmann wants to cut the waste (I don’t have any dollar figures). The problem is that I have to actually trust these politicians to do what they say.

    “If they bring in more federal money won’t that shift the burden off of your local taxes and possibly lower them?”

    “If they bring in less federal money won’t that shift the burden to your local tax base?”

    I do think some of the burden would shift to federal funding, however, the money has to come from somewhere. That could mean higher federal taxes and that’s a whole different discussion. The downside is that the federal government isn’t suited to handle a local school district simply because they don’t possess an intimate knowledge about the area as much as local politicians do. That opens up the possibility for more wasteful spending from the federal government.

    “If saving money and/or getting the biggest education bang-for-the buck is the goal what will your representative in the federal government have to do with it?”

    I honestly don’t know, and wish I had more time to check it out. I’ve been prioritizing my research to candidates in local elections.

  192. #193 JBlilie
    October 20, 2008

    She’s a freak, a loon, a POS, and an embarrassment for the state of Minnesota (I’m a native.) She’s just a freak. She believes the same kind of religious nonsense Palin does.

    Colin Powell made a nice, derogatory reference to Bachman in his comments following his endorsement of Obama (while remaining a Republican!)

    Think about the choice this election (Obama and Biden are calling no one terrorists or anti-American, although the Bush legacy is as anti-American as can be):

    What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

    What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

    What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

    What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was divorced?

    What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after she was severely disfigured in a car accident?

    What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

    What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

    What if Cindy McCain had graduated from Harvard?

    What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?

    What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

    What if Obama couldn’t read from a teleprompter?

    What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

    What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

    What if Michelle Obama’s family had made their money from beer distribution?

    What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?

    You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

    This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference. (And what does the melanin density in a person’s skin have to with their qualifications for anything (outside of acting maybe.))

    Educational Backgrounds

    Barack Obama:
    Columbia University – B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
    Harvard – Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

    Joseph Biden:
    University of Delaware – B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
    Syracuse University College of Law – Juris Doctor (J.D.)

    vs.

    John McCain:
    United States Naval Academy – Class rank: 894 of 899

    Sarah Palin:
    Hawaii Pacific University – 1 semester
    North Idaho College – 2 semesters – general study
    University of Idaho – 2 semesters – journalism
    Matanuska-Susitna College – 1 semester
    University of Idaho – 3 semesters – B.A. in Journalism

    Education isn’t everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world.

  193. #194 Greg Laden
    October 20, 2008

    This post has been included in the Replace Michele Bachmann web carnival:

    http://tinyurl.com/6fnn8a

    (Where you may find some additional interesting reading!)

    GTL

  194. #195 scotth
    October 20, 2008

    Some media coverage of her apparently downfall. (I can hardly keep from giggling).
    http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002976960

  195. #196 scotth
    October 20, 2008

    Greg Laden’s stuff nearly gave me convulsions… But, I just can’t feel bad about laughing at her.

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