…and this is a 
Elitism is not a four-letter word
Category: Politics
Posted on: October 25, 2008 10:05 PM, by PZ Myers
I just got this in the mail, and smug elitist that I am, I thought it was worth passing along.
Dear friends, In these times, with extremely serious, complicated crisises confronting us both economically and internationally, we need to have intelligent, educated people as president & vice president:
Educational Background:
Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A.
Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Brad D | October 25, 2008 10:15 PM
That just about says it all.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 10:17 PM
From my experience, college hopping like Palin did is usually caused by either money problems or academic problems.
Posted by: Robin | October 25, 2008 10:18 PM
Or just being a dumbass.
Posted by: Stephen | October 25, 2008 10:23 PM
We don't need those eggheads running our country. We need good, down-home country folks. Even if they run the country into the ground, they'll at least do it with a smile and a folksy accent.
And what would Obama do? Even if he made America a better place, he'd do it while being MUSLIM. And EDUCATED.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 10:27 PM
I'm sure that Rev. Wright, whose church Obama belonged to for years, might have something to say about that. Where did you get your information? Faux News or the Drench Report? And why lie about something so easily disproved.Posted by: Quat | October 25, 2008 10:28 PM
Maybe we should write Truman, Washington, Eistein, Jobs, Gates, Dickens,Bach, etc. out of the history books before people start to think that a Degree is not required for, nor creates intelligence or genius, and certainly, not honesty integrity or charity .
Of course, why should we listen to the advice of someone who is only an associate professor at the University of Minnesota,,,,,,,,,at Morris no less.
Just sayin'
Posted by: SC | October 25, 2008 10:29 PM
Did it really say "crisises"?
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | October 25, 2008 10:31 PM
Two lawyers vs two non lawyers.
Some fracking choice.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 10:33 PM
And why should we listen to you about anything? After all, Einstein did get a degree from the ETH in Zurich.Posted by: Sadie Morrison | October 25, 2008 10:33 PM
Nerd of Redhead, I'm fairly certain that Stephen was being facetious.
Posted by: The Science Pundit | October 25, 2008 10:34 PM
You elitist smug bastard! How dare you point this out! The people's candidate will win--and that's a promise!
Posted by: Unstable Isotope | October 25, 2008 10:34 PM
Sarah Palin has a B.A. in journalism yet can't even name one news source she reads! I agree that her many college changes is pretty fishy. Her family doesn't seem to value education. Her son did not attend college and her soon-to-be SIL dropped out of high school. There's no talk of her eldest daughter attending college. Her 7-year-old must not attend school either because she does a lot of appearances with Palin. I don't think she values education very much. I read that her father is a science teacher though!
Posted by: Paper Hand | October 25, 2008 10:35 PM
@#8:
Yes, we all know how terrible presidents lawyers make. I mean, John Adams? Thomas Jefferson? Abraham Lincoln? What a bunch of losers!
Posted by: Kel | October 25, 2008 10:36 PM
Sounds like all the bases are covered to me.Posted by: SoMG | October 25, 2008 10:37 PM
Hey PZ a while back you were asking for creepy, Hammeresque movies and TCM is showing a great one right now: PEEPING TOM (1960). With divine (excuse me) Anna Massey, who later starred in Hitchcock's last great movie, FRENZY.
And have people recommended SCANNERS to you? It's sort of about thalidomide. And Patrick McGoohan plays a very unusual role for him: someone who actually cares about other people.
Posted by: Sastra | October 25, 2008 10:38 PM
In 1935 Sinclair Lewis wrote one of his lesser-known novels, It Can't Happen Here, a story of a fascist takeover of the United States. I read it a while back, but I remember that it comes from withi8n, wrapped in a flag, a Bible, and populist sentiment.
Just now I opened it up, and came across a speech early in the book, given by one Mrs. Adelaide Tarr Gimmich, DAR. I thought I'd share part of it:
"What this country needs is Discipline! Peace is a great dream, but maybe sometimes it's only a pipe dream! I'm not so sure -- now this will shock you, but I want you to listen to one woman who will tell you the unadulterated hard truth instead of a lot of sentimental taffy, but I'm not sure but that we need to be in a real war again, in order to learn Discipline! We don't want all this high-brow intellectuality, all this book-learning. That's good enough in its way, but isn't it, after all, just a nice toy for grownups? No, what we all of us must have, if this great land is going to go on maintaining its high position among the Congress of Nations, is Discipline -- Will Power -- Character!"
You betcha.
Posted by: hii_oo | October 25, 2008 10:39 PM
Wow none of them are smart enough to study math or physics or even biology.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 10:39 PM
I don't recognize all the regulars. After all the other posts today, it can be hard when one of us is putting on a joke. If that is the case, my apologies.
Posted by: Owlmirror | October 25, 2008 10:45 PM
Might or might not be a regular, but was definitely being facetious.
"Even if he made America a better place, he'd do it while being MUSLIM. And EDUCATED."
Posted by: quat | October 25, 2008 10:48 PM
1) I agree, Stephen was being ironic. It's difficult for a good number of people to grasp irony. I think especially redheads.
2)ETH, yes, but it was only a lowly polytechnic at the time, not a REAL UNIVERSITY like where Obama went. Einstein was no Oxford man.
3) yes, and why should you listen to me...I'n not spouting off arrogantly, and have no wish for a cult following. I bet you're still listening though.....stop following me.....I said go to bed!!
Posted by: John Morales | October 25, 2008 10:49 PM
SC@7: Nice pickup - I missed that one.
I suspect there'll be accusations relating to credentialism, but political science and law are surely very relevant to the position.
Posted by: quat | October 25, 2008 10:54 PM
Glad I heard of this blog. I don't spend much time reading blogs, but after hearing about the author: This site could be a morbid obession of mine as well. Myers is a much grander Quat. Certainly rivals Dawkins for silliness when he steps outside of his field.
Quat on.
Posted by: nanu nanu | October 25, 2008 10:56 PM
quat, go DIAF
Posted by: InTheImageOfDNA | October 25, 2008 10:57 PM
Sastra,
I've read It Can't Happen Here as well. Lewis' picture of what a fascist takeover of the country would look like is spot on and we see much of the character of the fictitious rhetoric he crafted for that book mirrored today in the actual rhetoric of the right-wingers.
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 10:57 PM
I just got very depressed.
Palin is more educated than I am, and more traveled.
Oh well, she's certainly not BETTER educated.
Posted by: quat | October 25, 2008 10:59 PM
Glad I heard of this blog. I don't spend much time t all reading blogs, but after hearing about the author: This site could be a morbid obession of mine as well. Myers is a much grander Quat, and certainly rivals Dawkins for silliness (and well, hatred and meglomania as well) when he steps outside of his field.
Quat on.
(I said stop following me Red)
man, am I in a bitter mood lately.
Posted by: Owlmirror | October 25, 2008 11:03 PM
Have you tried reading "Garfield"?
That should turn that bitterness into pure acidic nihilistic suicidal despair. Fun with mood alchemy!
Posted by: me2i81 | October 25, 2008 11:03 PM
McCain also attended the National War College after he returned from Vietnam. Both the Naval Academy and the National War College are elite institutions, but in both cases McCain got in because of his father, not because of merit, just like George W. Bush.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 11:04 PM
Quat, the Redhead is my wife. My hair color is bald.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 25, 2008 11:04 PM
Oh, looky here. Yet an other self important dumbass here to show how we are all followers of the Cult Of PZ.
Quat, you bore me already.
Posted by: los tacos | October 25, 2008 11:07 PM
Holy Crap!
I just realized my OWN FATHER got degrees from Harvard AND Columbia, too!
Does that mean he's ALSO a Secret Anti-American Terrorist Muslim Socialist? I even "palled around" with him when I was eight years old!!!
Thank you for pulling the wool from my eyes. If only he'd gone to a community college in Alaska.
Posted by: andyo | October 25, 2008 11:09 PM
Uh, I did some university hopping in my time. *Extends hand a la Colbert* (vice)Presidency, please?
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 11:09 PM
The cult of PZ??
I'm in a cult?
I haven't been in a cult since I left Christianity.
It's like coming home again, but without the human sacrifice and cannibalism ritual.
Can we have a cannibalism ritual?
Posted by: andrea | October 25, 2008 11:13 PM
"crisises"?!
Surely even spell-check would flag this as needing to be changed to "crises"...
andrea
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 25, 2008 11:13 PM
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008
Can we have a cannibalism ritual?
All you need to do is mistreat a cracker.
Posted by: The Chemist | October 25, 2008 11:16 PM
Wow! Maybe I shouldn't go to grad school. Then I can have half the votes in this country guaranteed!
Oh wait! I really am Arab and Muslim. Crap!
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 11:17 PM
PZ
What incantation would we have to say in order to transform a cracker into your flesh?
And also, would you mind if we used low sodium crackers.
I'm trying to be careful with sodium.
Posted by: Clemens | October 25, 2008 11:17 PM
Our chancellor has a PhD in physics. Yarrr!
There may be great people and politicians without a high university degree, but they have earned merit in other ways. I don't really see what Palin has done in any way to earn merit.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008 11:17 PM
ggab, we admire cephalopod photos every Friday. And give PZ grief if he doesn't post one. We hail the praises of the Flying Spaghetti Monster if we feel playful. Otherwise, not much of a cult.
For example, they still haven't shown me the secret handshake to get into the meetings in Morris where they plan to take over the world.;)
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 11:21 PM
PZ could never rule the world.
I heard he palls around with atheists, which is even worse than terrorists. They'd never let him lead.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 25, 2008 11:21 PM
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 25, 2008
For example, they still haven't shown me the secret handshake to get into the meetings in Morris where they plan to take over the world.;)
There is no handshake, the paws are too small. But you have to show some respect to the mouse with the Orson Wells complex.
Posted by: Malimar | October 25, 2008 11:25 PM
Something that has annoyed me about people bringing up Sarah Palin's educational history: bouncing from college to college is not a sign of stupidity. [anecdata]Many of the smartest people I know have taken longer than 4 years and more than one college to get a degree.[/anecdata]
Doing well in college is less an indicator of intelligence and more an indicator of work ethic, ability to adapt, mental stability, and whether you picked a college that you fit into in the first place. The first three of those may indicate an inability to rule a country, but they don't make her stupid.
Of course, I'm not saying she's not stupid: her religious beliefs incontrovertibly prove the opposite. I'm just saying her college history is not evidence for her stupidity.
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 11:27 PM
No handshake but there is a code word.
Tell them you're there to see Dr. Jiggleitalittleitllwork.
(My favorite Pinky and The Brain line, but you may have to read it a couple times)
Posted by: The Chemist | October 25, 2008 11:29 PM
@ Quat,
It's a respect for learning that made those men you mention great. They were autodidacts, but didacts they were. With their anti-intellectualism, McPailin have made it clear they are uninterested with informing themselves.
Hell, Lincoln wasn't a military strategist, but the first thing he did when he realized that war was coming, was go to the library of congress and get as many books as possible about military strategy. I don't see either McCain or Palin doing anything similar in a crisis. I see them falling into the laps of advisers with their own agendas (like Bush).
As for Einstein not being an Oxford man, he was actually a cut above an Oxford man- he went to ETH when Europe was the Place To Be(TM) for advanced physics and the US was still a comparative physics backwater (this would change with the advent of Big Science and the migration of European professors to the US).
Posted by: mayhempix | October 25, 2008 11:38 PM
Oh come on everyone...
Sara has a BS in Palintology from Ubetcha U.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 25, 2008 11:39 PM
I am sorry to be completely off topic but what is this? I have no problem with PZ deleting my post.
Posted by: Zeno | October 25, 2008 11:47 PM
Gov. Palin gets credit for her BA in journalism even if she nickel-and-dimed her way through several schools to get there. One would like, however, to see that some of it soaked in.
I think degrees from exclusive schools are all very nice and I congratulate those who earn them. But degrees from less exalted schools are also fine by me. And some people do well without any degrees at all (but that's an increasingly less viable course -- unless you're Bill Gates or someone like that).
Of course, I'm really impressed that McCain was in the top 900 of his graduating class. Perhaps that explains all the crashed planes.
As for Obama, he graduated from Harvard magna cum laude. Only "magna"? What? No "summa"? I am so disappointed.
Posted by: Brian | October 25, 2008 11:48 PM
I've been a long time reader of this blog, but this is my first time posting. At the risk of making a horrible first impression, I'm going to have to agree that Quat has a very good point. I am a 3rd year University undergraduate with plans of going further in academics, but there's a good reason 'elitism' has normally been considered a negative word. The education of the presidential candidates can be used to conclude some things, especially when taken together with what we already know about them. But any conclusions to the effect of "this person is better because he/she holds a degree" is ridiculous.
As was pointed out, there have been several worthy presidents of your country that had no post-secondary education, and I don't think they were lesser men because of it.
I agree with most of the opinions I read on this blog, and don't know what PZ's thoughts on this post are (he didn't say) but I thought the backlash against Quat was quite juvenile.
We should be governed by smart people, but you can't tell who those people are by the degrees they boast.
Posted by: Thadd | October 25, 2008 11:50 PM
[Quote]Maybe we should write Truman, Washington, Eistein, Jobs, Gates, Dickens,Bach, etc. out of the history books before people start to think that a Degree is not required for, nor creates intelligence or genius, and certainly, not honesty integrity or charity .[Quote]
The thing is, all of these people did well with their work. McCain was what 5th worst in his class, and then crashed multiple plains and got captured. Now he claims he can find Bin Laden, but hasn't said a word about it. Yeah, he's going somewhere with that military education
Palin on the other hand can't name a single periodical she reads, even something like People.
Posted by: FishyFred | October 25, 2008 11:53 PM
You are going to be stunned to see this monstrous video.
Posted by: Thadd | October 25, 2008 11:54 PM
Brian, yes there have been many presidents without degrees, but since 1897 only Truman. This speaks something to the changing systems of understanding and expected knowledge in political figures.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | October 25, 2008 11:55 PM
Maybe we should write Truman, Washington, Eistein, Jobs, Gates, Dickens,Bach, etc. out of the history books
Quat tries to lump Sarah Palin and John McCain in with these people. Just one post and I knew I could skip every one of his subsequent posts without missing a thing. Well done, Quat. Very efficient.
bouncing from college to college is not a sign of stupidity.
I wouldn't be able to agree or disagree with you on that. All I know is that Palin proves her stupidity empirically and repeatedly without reference to her education background almost every time she speaks.
Posted by: ggab | October 25, 2008 11:55 PM
Hi Brian and welcome.
I assumed that quat's chilly reception was actually more due to the fact that the first thing he did was try to insult PZ.
This is PZ's blog after all. That kind of rudeness won't make you a lot of friends.
Posted by: Owlmirror | October 25, 2008 11:56 PM
That is comment spam. There's a bunch of it hanging off of old threads. Some of it even in Turkish.
Presumably, they long for the power-boost of Pharyngulan Googlejuice.
Posted by: keri | October 25, 2008 11:57 PM
@7: This is really dumb, but a lot of people are speaking "crisises" because the switch from "crisis" to "crises" doesn't match the general method of pluralizing English nouns, and it's not a word they've previously used or read much.
Of course, it could also be someone hedging their bets because they don't know if it's "crisis" or "crises" that's the plural.
---
Looking at Palin's education history, I'm not really all that bothered, since it looks like she first went to Hawai'i because of the exotic locale, found out it wasn't working (too expensive? too far from home? too much slacking off?) then did a community college in preparation for the university in Idaho. I'd not be surprised if the other college is in Alaska and it's a summer semester, or something.
Still, only 9 semesters to get a degree? That's not so crazy, and almost twice as fast as me. (stupid half-time enrollment so I can work to pay tuition) Besides, check it out, it's not like she went to Bob Jones or Liberty Universities. That's worth something, right?
(I'm not so sure the journalism degree is quite worth it, though. I know a lot of people who've done journalism because it's an "easy" major.)
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | October 25, 2008 11:59 PM
I am sorry to be completely off topic but what is this? I
Comment spam from some site that sounds like it's scamming World of Warcraft players out of money. I didn't follow the links, so can;t say for sure.
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | October 26, 2008 12:00 AM
Gotta jump on the "It Can't Happen Here" bandwagon.
What this country needs is Discipline! Peace is a great dream, but maybe sometimes it's only a pipe dream!
Reminds me of "Outside the Trains Don't Run on Time" by Gang of Four.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25waL5oTWDI
Commence rump shaking!
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | October 26, 2008 12:02 AM
Malimar, I have interviewed candidates for jobs where I have worked over the years. Looking at Palin's record, 9 semesters to get a BS is not necessarily a problem. In some fields, it may even be the norm. But that many changes in colleges would need to be explained. The explanations would be part of the overall evaluation for the job. If the explanations are good, no problem. But if the explanations aren't good, that many changes can be the sign of somebody who is not all there; a problem. So I can't draw any conclusions based on her college record, but a warning flag is up.
My conclusions as to her intelligence is based on what I have heard from the media. And that hasn't been very favorable.
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:05 AM
@51
There's nothing wrong with expecting your leaders to be knowledgeable, but having a degree isn't the only measure of knowledge. Simply saying one person is more suitable for the presidency than another person, based entirely on whether or not they earned a degree seems petty. My best friend has spent... I don't really know how many years at University without earning a degree. 5 or 6 at least. Put on academic probation twice. But he's traveled the world and has a much more enlightened perspective on worldly matters than most people (including me). But I'll have a degree in a year and he won't.
@52
I'm not sure why everyone assuming Quat was promoting Palin and McCain. Does disagreeing with a characterization of 'non-university graduates as stupid' automatically makes me a Republican to? And yes I agree that the two Republican's have shown they would do horrible things for the country and the rest of the world if elected, but Quat was making a point about their degrees (or lack thereof).
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:07 AM
@51
There's nothing wrong with expecting your leaders to be knowledgeable, but having a degree isn't the only measure of knowledge. Simply saying one person is more suitable for the presidency than another person, based entirely on whether or not they earned a degree seems petty. My best friend has spent... I don't really know how many years at University without earning a degree. 5 or 6 at least. Put on academic probation twice. But he's traveled the world and has a much more enlightened perspective on worldly matters than most people (including me). But I'll have a degree in a year and he won't.
@52
I'm not sure why everyone assuming Quat was promoting Palin and McCain. Does disagreeing with a characterization of 'non-university graduates as stupid' automatically makes me a Republican to? And yes I agree that the two Republican's have shown they would do horrible things for the country and the rest of the world if elected, but Quat was making a point about their degrees (or lack thereof).
Posted by: waldteufel | October 26, 2008 12:08 AM
Well, gee, Brian . . . .Palin thinks the earth is 6,000 years old, and dinosaurs and men lived together.
She can't complete a sentence without talking points spoon fed to her.
Palin can't name a single magazine or newspaper that she reads. She thinks Jeebus is coming back in her lifetime.
If you, Brian, are comfortable with this non-thinking, uneducated, provincial, clothes-horse breeder hick in posession of the nuclear launch codes (she says nu-cu-lar - she can't even pronounce the word) then you are welcome to her.
I'm happy for her to return to Alaska and spend her days huntin' and fishin', by golly. You betcha.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | October 26, 2008 12:08 AM
I'm going to have to agree that Quat has a very good point.
Not really. He missed a vital point. The people in his list may not have had degrees or done well academically, like McCain and Palin, but they *did* strive and succeed in later life. They applied their natural intelligence and made names for themselves that way. That's why we remember who they are.
McCain and Palin has done nothing to distinguish themselves and will likely become obscure footnotes in history in a week and a half.
Posted by: LotharLoo | October 26, 2008 12:09 AM
Laugh it up filthy liberals. You think that achievement was easy for McCain? It's not easy to make it among the top 5 at the bottom of the barrel.
Posted by: John Morales | October 26, 2008 12:10 AM
Keri, the misspelling of crises is interesting because it's in an exhortation advocating the importance of education. Whether it detracts from or adds credibility to the attempted suasion is a matter of interpretation, of course.
Posted by: keri | October 26, 2008 12:12 AM
@7: This is really dumb, but a lot of people are speaking "crisises" because the switch from "crisis" to "crises" doesn't match the general method of pluralizing English nouns, and it's not a word they've previously used or read much.
Of course, it could also be someone hedging their bets because they don't know if it's "crisis" or "crises" that's the plural.
---
Looking at Palin's education history, I'm not really all that bothered, since it looks like she first went to Hawai'i because of the exotic locale, found out it wasn't working (too expensive? too far from home? too much slacking off?) then did a community college in preparation for the university in Idaho. I'd not be surprised if the other college is in Alaska and it's a summer semester, or something.
Still, only 9 semesters to get a degree? That's not so crazy, and almost twice as fast as me. (stupid half-time enrollment so I can work to pay tuition) Besides, check it out, it's not like she went to Bob Jones or Liberty Universities. That's worth something, right?
(I'm not so sure the journalism degree is quite worth it, though. I know a lot of people who've done journalism because it's an "easy" major.)
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:12 AM
Sorry for the double post, Firefox did something screwy there.
@53
I'd understand that if he actually attempted to insult anyone. I'd say what he did was pretty fair, take a second to reread it just to be sure. PZ's a great, intelligent guy. But was he top of his class at Yale? This whole thread is about judging people by their college degrees, and that's what Quat was pointing out. It was a pointed criticism of the attitudes expressed in the first few comments, as PZ didn't give his own comments.
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | October 26, 2008 12:13 AM
Gotta jump on the "It Can't Happen Here" bandwagon.
What this country needs is Discipline! Peace is a great dream, but maybe sometimes it's only a pipe dream!
Reminds me of "Outside the Trains Don't Run on Time" by Gang of Four.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25waL5oTWDI
Commence rump shaking!
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:15 AM
@61
Read my posts before speaking this way to me please.
I stated my opinions of Palin and McCain.
Posted by: Gary Bohn | October 26, 2008 12:15 AM
I have a couple of degrees I can sell to Palin, they sure the hell ain't doin' nothing for me and she needs to pad her edumication.
Posted by: King Mob | October 26, 2008 12:17 AM
What this really proves is that college is overrated.
Posted by: keri | October 26, 2008 12:17 AM
ack, apologies for repeating my comment. I'm going to have to blame it on the cat, because I haven't the foggiest why else that happened, except random pushed buttons.
I did understand why the misspelling would undermine the purpose of the email, I just thought I'd point out that I hear "crisises" a lot around here, with my guess about why. Maybe all the people using it haven't had much of a higher education? It reminds me of how the word "data" has shifted to encompass both the singular and plural.
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:19 AM
Science blogs asked me to resubmit my post, so here's hoping it doesn't double post:
@61
If you're going to write to me that way, could you at least read my posts? I stated my opinion of Palin, and do NOT think she would be good for your country, or the world.
@62
Again, I'd agree here if he Quat had endorsed either of the Republican candidates. He didn't. It's unfair to casually label him as the enemy in this situation.
Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | October 26, 2008 12:21 AM
The list of candidates' credentials is interesting, but the real issue isn't a mere comparison of the candidates' levels of formal education -- it's whether or not they exhibit intellectual curiosity. And after eight years of a president whose curiosity compares poorly with that of a cinderblock, maybe the voting public is starting to figure this out.
I personally don't care whether Sarah Palin attended five colleges, one, or none. There's nothing wrong with taking a circuitous route to a college degree. But if a person gives absolutely no indication that she cares to learn anything about the world, she's a poor choice to hold a national office.
Posted by: ggab | October 26, 2008 12:22 AM
Brian
I see what you mean. I was actually looking at a later post from quat that I felt was insulting. I agree with your reading of the first one.
I rushed through most of the posts when I got to this thread and only had the overall impression that he was a tool. I guess it wasn't from his first post though.
Posted by: John Morales | October 26, 2008 12:23 AM
Brian @66:
I draw your attention to my post @21, where I've pre-emptively addressed this.
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:23 AM
Julie Stahlhut proves that she is better with words than I. Although a little less of a confrontational spin than I put on it. ^^
Posted by: King Mob | October 26, 2008 12:25 AM
What this really proves is that college is overrated.
Posted by: Azkyroth | October 26, 2008 12:25 AM
Um...
-quatWhat point?
Posted by: shonny | October 26, 2008 12:25 AM
Just out of curiosity, wouldn't coming out no. 894 of 899 qualify as a fail? Surely it would in a high school setting?
Ok, it is the military, so they need all and anything, even the dimwits like McCain (aka 'songbird'), in their ranks.
McVain must have been a real source of pride and honour to his family!
Posted by: BobC | October 26, 2008 12:25 AM
B.A. in Political Science? I'm not impressed. I think the world could easily survive without professional politicians.
B.A. in Journalism? That's almost as worthless as a B.A. in Political Science.
Class rank: 894 of 899? That's disgraceful. After watching the first debate I'm not surprised. McCain doesn't seem too bright.
Posted by: clinteas | October 26, 2008 12:26 AM
I find it fascinating how having an IQ above room temperature and being able to read a book and summarize its contents has become "elitist"in your country,and what strongly negative connotations this ability apparently has.
The movie Idiocracy comes to mind.
I just didnt think I would actually see it come true in my lifetime.
Posted by: Thadd | October 26, 2008 12:26 AM
Brian, No, I am not saying a degree is a true measure of intelligence. But in the same way I don't want a doctor who doesn't have an MD, I don't want a president who cannot fulfill his or her job do to a lack of knowledge.
What knowledge is this? A broad understanding of the law, economics, history, political science, math, the physical sciences, etc. Now I am not calling for an expert level knowledge of any of these, but something beyond primary education would make sense for the job.
Additionally, McCain outright failed miserably at his college. For someone selling himself as a military force to be reckoned with, you would hope for at least the top 90%
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:28 AM
@John Morales
Heh, prescience. I'll readily agree that degrees in Political Science and Law are very relevant. I agree that the presence of degrees goes towards a persons character, but argue that their absence does not count against it.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 26, 2008 12:29 AM
Brian, this is the reason I snapped at the dumbass.
Posted by: quat | October 25, 2008
3) yes, and why should you listen to me...I'n not spouting off arrogantly, and have no wish for a cult following. I bet you're still listening though.....stop following me.....I said go to bed!!
I realize he is making a Life Of Brian reference. But fuck him for being yet an other parachuting troll pointing out the "cult" atmosphere here.
Posted by: Jeanette | October 26, 2008 12:31 AM
There's another fact that's buried in the Christian rewriting of this country's history: Aside from the fact that many of the founding fathers were not theists, or were theists whose knowledge of the world made them advocates of separation of church and state, they were also among the most educated people of their time. Many had college degrees at a time when achieving that level of education was a rarity. And yes, there were lawyers among them.
The Christian Right gets one thing right without knowing why: we need to return to the values of the founders on many issues (but without reverting to the status racial minorities, women, and gays had, obviously).
Throughout U.S. history, those who were known for their "folksiness" had the reputation for folksy honesty and straightforwardness, not folksy dumbness. Politicians who have lacked education had to compensate for it by being intellectually brilliant. It's only today that someone would list her qualification for being Vice President as "I'm a mom. I'm a soccer mom." If we should make those into Vice Presidents, we're going to have way too many of those.
Posted by: John Morales | October 26, 2008 12:33 AM
Brian @83, it's relevant mutatis mutandis.
And I suspect that the Democratic candidates, given their educational qualifications, would not need to look that term up.
(Disclaimer: I have no tertiary qualifications)
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:35 AM
@84
I didn't even catch the [i]Life of Brian[/i] reference, I just thought he had started being silly. Whoops. As for the "cult" atmosphere... well, this is a blog who's readership has fairly similar opinions on most things. I wouldn't call it a "cult", but you can see where he's coming from when his posts elicit responses such as #23. I don't necessarily agree with the tone of Quat's last post, but I'll say that it does take a but if bravery to go against the flow in a forum such as this.
Posted by: clinteas | October 26, 2008 12:39 AM
@ 87,
Nothing could be further from the truth methinks.And uniformity is not a virtue.
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008 12:42 AM
Ok, so my attempt at using HTML failed. Oh well.
John Morales @86
I -did- have to look it up. ^^;
And I can see where you're coming from. If I was hiring for a job and looking at two similar resumes, one with a relevant degree and one without, it could very well make the choice for me. But (and I'm having trouble writing this because I know it'll sound bad, I really DO support Obama/Biden) I would also look at whether or not either candidate for the job had relevant real world experience. Other things you have done with your life matter, not just your University years.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | October 26, 2008 12:44 AM
Posted by: Brian | October 26, 2008
I didn't even catch the [i]Life of Brian[/i] reference, I just thought he had started being silly. Whoops. As for the "cult" atmosphere... well, this is a blog who's readership has fairly similar opinions on most things. I wouldn't call it a "cult", but you can see where he's coming from when his posts elicit responses such as #23. I don't necessarily agree with the tone of Quat's last post, but I'll say that it does take a but if bravery to go against the flow in a forum such as this.
What bravery does it take to post on a message board?
Also, when people make cracks about a cult being here, they are getting ready for the bullshit argument that "atheism is a religion".
Sorry but I dislike parachuting trolls. And Quat is acting like one.
Posted by: Brian |