…and this is a 
Descended from a monkey?
Category: Creationism
Posted on: November 8, 2008 9:30 AM, by PZ Myers
She'll be back: watch this mob of blinkered Republicans gush over Sarah Palin, especially Pat Buchanan, who makes up 'facts' as he goes along. The Republicans are accused of being a party that celebrates ignorance, Buchanan is asked if he accepts evolution, and he blithely confirms the accusation by repeating the notorious query of Soapy Sam Wilberforce.
I've heard a few times now the idea that the Republican Party has become the Know-Nothing Party. It's entirely true.
Comments
Posted by: TSC | November 8, 2008 9:43 AM
Once Palin gets her GED in political science, world history and geography...look out!
Posted by: castletonsnob | November 8, 2008 9:47 AM
I'm having hardware problems and can't actually hear the conversation in the video, but can someone offer a quick, witty response--or a concise technical response--to the assertion that humans are descended from monkeys? Thanks!
Posted by: Bret Hall | November 8, 2008 9:49 AM
Oh dear, the most ignorant are always screaming the loudest RIGHT PAT? If you can't beat them intellectually, JUST SAY THINGS REALLY LOUD AND DON'T GIVE THE OTHER PERSON TIME TO SPEAK.
I would suggest that maybe Pat really DID evolve from a monkey, but that would be insulting to the monkey.
Posted by: S. Rivlin | November 8, 2008 9:54 AM
At age 44, with a Down Syndrome baby, a Redneck husband, a pregnant teenage daughter, a son in Iraq and a state government to run, does anyone really believe that this ignorant and arrogant woman will either find or take the time to study elementary and highschool basics?
She maybe smarter than George W. Bush, but she is as ignorant as he is and the fact that the Republican Party celebrates these idiots is the reason this party is becoming irrelevant in America!
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 9:54 AM
Once Palin gets her GED in political science, world history and geography...look out!
That comment was hilarious. She'll learn, and someday be able to speak "convincingly" about international affairs. Dare to dream.
They are so far gone.
- SC, kin to a monkey
Posted by: Holydust | November 8, 2008 9:54 AM
ROFL. That any Republican thinks the GOP will do anything with Palin now other than continue to throw her under the bus -- not that she doesn't deserve it, of course -- is amusing to me. She's singed her bridges a little too far to go back now. :) I think the "2012" chant is a prime example of a people who are already known for being unable to accept reality.
Posted by: Tim | November 8, 2008 9:55 AM
A side effect of Nixon's "Southern strategy", while pandering to folks who are confused about the uses of sheets, the GOP got along with the votes of former southern democrats, got the baggage. "Yellow dog rethuglicans" tends to explain why McCain - Palin seemed like a good idea to them, might've worked better if they hadn't looked like Boris & Natasha on the podium.
Posted by: Zhok | November 8, 2008 10:02 AM
I don't understand why everyone's ripping on Palin. It's no more her fault than Bush's reign is that of W. The scape goat always gets it while the puppet masters stay back and enjoy the show.
Posted by: Norman Doering | November 8, 2008 10:04 AM
Holydust wrote:
But the "2012" chant should be encouraged. And so should the purging of moderate Republicans. And we should reinforce the belief that Africa is a country and not a continent. The farther they sink the worse they'll do.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/11/can-you-hear-me-now.html
Bachmann / Palin - 2012
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | November 8, 2008 10:07 AM
From wikipedia:
Posted by: barry21 | November 8, 2008 10:13 AM
Every candidate gets a bump in the polls on the heels of his or her convention. As Obama's 'artificial' convention polling numbers faded, McCain's rose. That tidily explains the numbers trotted out by Pat Buchanan.
It's funny that Pat is so impressed by the initial positive reaction many people had. She was new. They were curious. She presented herself to their satisfaction. As soon as the teleprompters were shut off, her true color showed. And her true color is as brown as the shit she is so full of.
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 10:14 AM
Sure, it sounds astonishingly stupid when simply written in everyday English, but when it's SHOUTED while SMIRKING it's highly convincing.
Posted by: Paguroidea | November 8, 2008 10:15 AM
Buchanan's comments don't surprise me, unfortunately. He wrote an article called "What are the Darwinists Afraid of? "
http://www.theamericancause.org/a-pjb-050808-darwin.htm
Posted by: I am so Wise | November 8, 2008 10:18 AM
Give Buchanan time. He's got a thing for Rachael Maddow that's mellowing him out. I'm willing to go as far as to say that I think the biggest regret Buchanan has about Maddow being a lesbian is not the fact that in Buchanan's belief she's going to spend eternity in hell, but the fact her lesbianism prevents him from having a shot at being her sugar daddy.
Posted by: greg laden | November 8, 2008 10:20 AM
PZ: I was just about to email you this clip.
This is a very nice piece. I love the idea of the "evolution test" as a titer for organized ignorance.
Posted by: tripwire | November 8, 2008 10:24 AM
If one would make such a creationist statement here in the Netherlands, you would immediately disqualify yourself on an intellectual level, and you would be mocked for ages. This is a good thing, and I don't understand how these people are not laughed away and ridiculed.
Posted by: Jeff | November 8, 2008 10:26 AM
This has been my impression for many years. A segment of our population wants to stay ignorant, and they're a big part of the Republican base.
The McCain people are pretty anti-Palin, rightly so, but the know-nothing social conservatives love her. The question is are the McCain types the future of the party, or are ignorant people like Palin?
I found this Hardball segment interesting
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27599593#27599593
Posted by: Norman Doering | November 8, 2008 10:27 AM
Buchanan is merely Rachael Maddow's token Republican, not necessarily chosen to make Republicans look good. Just like Larry King has Ben Stein going opposite Robert Reich and Barney Frank.
How come you never see someone like Richard G. Lugar (whom Obama liked) or some other Republican doing these shows?
Posted by: Tim Fuller | November 8, 2008 10:32 AM
Attention Poll Crashers....and likely website crashers (this may be a real test to my hosting company)
I have published my first online poll over at my website.
How to reconcile God's will
http://thetimchannel.com/?p=242
Enjoy.
Posted by: 60613 | November 8, 2008 10:34 AM
Buchanan is a loud mouthed fool who loves loud mouthed fools - hence his obsession with Scairabou Barbie. He's also of the same ilk as Bush / Chaney / Rove: say something loud enough often enough and someone will believe it... until the WMD can't be found.
Unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime.
Posted by: Sili | November 8, 2008 10:37 AM
Hold me, mommy.
I'm scared.
Posted by: Andrewc | November 8, 2008 10:37 AM
I think the moderate Republicans are making the decision that they'd rather vote for a smart person they disagree with than a stupid person they agree with.
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | November 8, 2008 10:42 AM
My Buchanan doll (I couldn't be prouder!)
Has two voice settings: Loud! and LOUDER!!!
Just wind him up and pull his string;
He'll shout and shout just anything--
When Caribou Barbie invites him for tea
He's happy as a doll can be
They sit and talk and say dumb stuff
Until I think they've had enough.
They really are a funny pair;
When you open their heads, there's nothing there!
As dolls, these two have some appeal--
They'd be scary as hell if they were real.
Posted by: Burning Umbrella | November 8, 2008 10:42 AM
McCain and Palin would've won their hard-earned victory, had the economical crisis not disturbed the mainstream media from the truly important stuff, such as the hype for Palin.
Posted by: debaser71 | November 8, 2008 10:45 AM
All their laughing, hahahahahya hahahaha oh Lawrence. Is ridiculous. They think ignorance is something to be proud of and knowledge is something to be laughed at. WTF
Republicans embrace ignorance! I like the phrase.
Posted by: Jackal | November 8, 2008 10:45 AM
castletonsnob writes
If you think evolution means that humans descended from monkeys, you don't even know what you're denying. No modern species descended from any other modern species. Humans and monkeys - and all living things - share a common ancestor. That is evolution.Posted by: Cheezits | November 8, 2008 10:50 AM
Some moderate Republicans have probably done like I did, and become Democrats.
Posted by: Nattering Nabob of Negativism | November 8, 2008 10:51 AM
There's an example of why I am so disgusted with the mainstream media hosting panels. Whenever somebody breaks the ground rules by shouting or overtalking somebody else, it is a simple matter for the moderator to cut off their mike. Then the viewer gets to see the spoiled brat get his comeuppance and the grownup who'd been talking gets to finish their point.
None of them shows any such discipline, which means they would rather have the tirades and shouting matches than reasoned discourse.
Pass it on.
Posted by: Sam C | November 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Did Pat Buchanan evolve from a monkey?
No, he keeps his tail hidden.
Posted by: Donnie B. | November 8, 2008 10:51 AM
How about, "I'll be a monkey's uncle if I'll fall for that rhetorical trick."Posted by: druidbros | November 8, 2008 11:03 AM
The Republicans just dont realize how far out on the bridge to nowhere they really are because they choose to be ignorant. I, for one, hope they remain in that state. They will get further ridicule heaped upon them as the votes for them keep shrinking. And they will get to see what the 'real America wants.
I get more and more positive comments here in Kansas when I wear my FSM tshirt. The Republican ignorance has jumped the shark.
Posted by: Diego | November 8, 2008 11:03 AM
I think Pat Buchanan must sit at home and write in his notebook:
"Mrs Sarah P. Buchanan
Sarah Buchanan
Mrs. Sarah Palin Buchanan"
Hope springs eternal.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | November 8, 2008 11:04 AM
This is a crisis point for Republicans. Eight years ago the conservative punditry was claiming that it would be 100 years before a liberal would be elected president. The Republican hold on the federal government didn't even last as long as Hitler's Thousand Year Reich.
The right wing of the GOP, neocons like Rove and Limbaugh and religious conservatives like James Dobson, are whining that McCain wasn't conservative enough. Moderate Republicans like Charles Krauthammer, Christie Todd Whitman, and Arlen Specter are saying the right wing has worn out their welcome with rank and file Republicans.
It'll be interesting to see if the right wing continues to control the Republican Party or if the moderates will make a comeback.
Posted by: raven | November 8, 2008 11:04 AM
Palin is genuinely stupid, a low IQ. She couldn't even find Africa on a map, didn't know what NAFTA was, and so on. You will notice, for the entire campaign they kept her away from the press conferences and interviews as much as possible. Clearly her handlers thought she was incapable of normal levels of thought. Some estimates of her IQ range around 85 by who knows really?
Bush seemed to have average intelligence at one time. Something happened, drugs, alcohol, aging because it appears to be gone.
Reagan had Alzheimers during much of his tenure in office. What the Theothuglicans do with these cognitively challenged "leaders" is use them as meat puppets. Palin is and will be a meat puppet for the fundie Death Cults.
Posted by: Sceptical Chymist | November 8, 2008 11:07 AM
"Where ignorance is bliss, Tis folly to be wise", Thomas Grey. This sums up the loony branch of the Republican Party rather well.
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 11:09 AM
Yeah - or at least he wants to take a falafel to her (that was Buchanan, wasn't it, Rev.?).
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | November 8, 2008 11:11 AM
This is merely a funny rhetorical joke but it does get the point across. When a person challenged me on evolution, asking how I could believe that we were descended from monkey/apes, I would ask who would they rather have in their family tree, Jesse Helms (Or any other loathsome fool) of The Great Apes Of Africa? It is amazing how many people who laughed and admit they rather be related to the apes.
As for the video, it is funny that Richard Wolffe is there. He called Sarah Palin's comment on fruit fly research one of the most stupid and ignorant statements a politician could say. Funny how he did not get as loud as dear old Pat.
Posted by: raven | November 8, 2008 11:18 AM
Full scale civil war in the GOP right now. Most of the stories leaked to the press are agit-prop and ammo.
Fundie cultists versus moderate/conservatives.
The fundies claim Palin and McBush weren't extreme enough, a stupid strategy to move further into the lunatic fringes and lose forever. Just repeating the same mistakes again.
Hard to say whether the pragmatic thinkers will win or the ignorant fanatics. So far the ignorant fanatics seem to be ahead but it is early in the game.
Posted by: Norman Doering | November 8, 2008 11:18 AM
raven wrote:
I was ready to believe that, Palin did look bad on her first interviews, but I've got my TV on CNN right now and they just had an interview with Palin and she denied it was true.
Then I think about the original sources -- The McCain campaign and Fox news. Maybe it's not true.
The Palinfreude just goes on and on and I'll have to update this post:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/11/can-you-hear-me-now.html
Posted by: ggab | November 8, 2008 11:18 AM
How much do we really believe that this is the end of ignorance?
The thugs are already talking.
We've got Palin, Huckabee, Jindal all gearing up for 2012.
We simply must do what we can to support Obama and give him the best chance to succeed in getting this country back on track.
I'm not saying we should blindly follow his every move, but we should make sure that we are doing our part for this country. Show them what an intelligent leader may be able to accomplish.
We're all pretty fed up with ignorance at the helm. Let's keep that in mind for the next four years.
Posted by: JM | November 8, 2008 11:22 AM
It's truly unfortunate that the republicans are taking on this reputation.
One might think that they would learn from this election, and take steps to, I don't know, maybe ditch the religious right pandering and embrace a more responsible and honest platform.
But, after hearing the republican strategists speak, it doesn't sound like this will be their plan. Instead, we'll likely get more of the Sarah Palin types.
We, the reasonable portion of the population, need to speak up and make it clear to them why they are losing our support.
When did the republican base become the ignorant? And how long do they intend to keep this up?
Posted by: Arno | November 8, 2008 11:27 AM
lol. I just love it when people like BUCHANAN ask/shout people to give an answer but shout so much that the person cannot give an answer.
What a joke.
..and Cuttlefish, that was a brilliant response :)
Posted by: raven | November 8, 2008 11:28 AM
The best way for the dems and Obama to win again, is very simple. Competent government and success. Worked for Bill Clinton.
We haven't had either for 8 years now. Bush/McCain/Palin bad, Obama good is a false dichotomy. Obama has the ball right now, if he runs with it he will be a hero. If he falls, 2012 won't be pleasant. Wish him well and hope.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | November 8, 2008 11:30 AM
I disagree. Palin isn't a genius but she isn't stupid either. She's extremely ignorant about even quite basic things like world geography and foreign affairs. I believe her main problem is that she doesn't know what she doesn't know.She came without any intellectual training relevant to the challenges that a candidate requires, let alone an elected official. There is nothing to suggest that she saw a role for careful analysis or a deep understanding of world events when it comes to deciding the fate of a nation. In her interview with Charles Gibson, Palin managed to turn a joke about seeing Russia from her window into a straight-faced claim that Alaska's geographical proximity to Russia gave her some essential foreign-policy experience.
What didn't she know about financial markets, Islam, the history of the Middle East, the cold war, modern weapons systems, medical research, environmental science or emerging technology? Her relative ignorance was guaranteed on these fronts and most others, not because she was put on the spot, or got nervous, or just happened to miss the newspaper on any given morning. It was because she didn't really care about those things and many others.
Like George W. Bush, she lacks intellectual curiosity. What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents--and her supporters celebrate--the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance.
Posted by: brooks | November 8, 2008 11:33 AM
Jackal wrote:
imo john hawks says it better - if we traveled back some 6-7 mya to our common ancestors with Pan, what word would immediately spring to mind besides "ape"? and some tens of millions of years further back, again - "monkey" would be the most appropriate descriptor! (hey, use 'quadrupedal hominid', or 'primitive catarrhine', if it makes you feel better....)
no, they wouldn't be chimps, or gorillas, or baboons, or macaques, or any other living species; but surely there'd be an inescapable resemblance. denying this just strikes me as mealy-mouthed and a tad disingenuous.
Posted by: Joel Grant | November 8, 2008 11:34 AM
O'Donnell is the rationalist in this video. And yet later in the day, on Rachel Maddow's show, he was arguing in favor of keeping Lieberman in the Dem caucus, letting him keep his seniority and Homeland Security chair.
The center has held, but there is plenty of work to be done.
Posted by: oldtree | November 8, 2008 11:35 AM
I think it is hilarious that these tubewhiners are still working after the election they tried to Influence with their brilliance.
Poor old Pat. He has a long term contract with nbc because of something someone said that gave him the choice of a payoff via settlement, or a long term job. It is pretty pathetic that they allowed him the job considering how laughable he is.
Just like Candy Crowley. If someone hadn't made fun of her size, she wouldn't be working on TV any more. She nailed a long term contract instead of taking the payoff for the libel suit.
Frank Zappa said it best. I will paraphrase. Just like high school only guns and money are involved. Too bad so few people ever really graduate high school, isn't it?
Posted by: raven | November 8, 2008 11:36 AM
The GOP really ought to ditch the fundies. The rule in politics, when you have a captive segment, hold them and reach out and steal the other party's groups.
The fundies won't vote for Dems even if jesus C. was running.
The majority of the population is sick of the wingnuts, polls show that. And they are a dying group with nothing to offer but death, lies, destruction, and a return to the Dark Ages. Most of us would rather watch TV than sit on a pile of rubble, while skinning a rat for dinner, and chanting "Jesus loves us".
Posted by: Burning Umbrella | November 8, 2008 11:37 AM
What would be interesting to know is that how abstract intellect is tied to ignorance, are the current "IQ" tests really tests if abstract intellect or culturally bound, and is "abstract intelligence" a measurable, or even existing quality at all.
The assertion that "X is stupid, hence has low IQ, because of lack of information on certain fields" looks just an oversimplification to me.
Oh, going off-topic.
Posted by: whomever1 | November 8, 2008 11:38 AM
I think it's important to remember that "intelligence" is not just one entity--it's a group of different data-processing functions that are only somewhat correlated. Bush, Palin and many of the right-wing talking heads all seem to me to have a high social intelligence: They are very skillful in mapping the social landscape, and have a lot of tools for dominating conversations. And that's all they need. Actual data, or reasoned argument would just get in the way of their quest for social dominance, so they usually just treat it with contempt.
Posted by: ggab | November 8, 2008 11:42 AM
raven
Totally agree.
What I'm saying is that we should all be active about it.
Get your house rep. and senators offices on your contact lists.
They can't represent you if they don't know where you stand.
Be aware of what our country is faced with, and do your homework. Get involved.
Obama says we'll change this country together from the ground up. Let's test that theory.
I would hazzard a guess that the folks who frequent forums like this have above average intellects, let's get in there and mix it up.
If our problem is ignorance, we fight it with clear, rational, constructive thought.
Posted by: Tim Fuller | November 8, 2008 11:43 AM
I see the hand of pharyngula all over my poll because the Withes are way ahead...
http://thetimchannel.com/?p=242
Of course we're common ancestors with the monkeys, it's just that some of us have evolved a lot further than others.
Enjoy.
Posted by: ggab | November 8, 2008 11:50 AM
Tim
I liked the witch answer but I've always been partial to "didn't pray hard enough" as a knife in the heart response for occasions such as this.
I may have bet on a losing horse in this race, but I bet on a winner earlier this week, so I'm alright with it.
hehegigglegiggle
Didn't pray hard enough.
Posted by: Burning Umbrella | November 8, 2008 11:52 AM
Also visit my site and learn how to grow a bigger penis... in a vat!
Posted by: Tim Fuller | November 8, 2008 11:53 AM
The argument they are having over evolution is an attempt to shape an environment for Palin to return in 2008. If the media outside the confines of my small blog would press the 'meme' that Palin wants your daughter to carry the rapist's baby to term, we could quickly put her aspirations of a political future to rest. Why is that such a hot potato? For me, it's the main reason she avoided press conferences.
Enjoy.
Posted by: ggab | November 8, 2008 11:56 AM
So I said to Burning Umbrella "Thanks but no thanks to that bigger penis." However, I did wonder if he/she could help me with my premature ejaculation problem.
Well...it's not a problem for me...but...y'know.
Posted by: Ken Cope | November 8, 2008 11:56 AM
#2: can someone offer a quick, witty response--or a concise technical response--to the assertion that humans are descended from monkeys?
In debate with the Bishop of Oxford, "Soapy Sam" Wilberforce, T. H. Huxley was reportedly asked whether he'd prefer to be descended from an ape on his grandfather's or his grandmother's side. He did not reply that he would rather be descended from an ape than a bishop, although fainting couches were required. No exact transcript of the debate exists; Huxley recalled his rejoinder in print long afterwards:
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 12:07 PM
I'm happy for any thread on which Ken Cope shows up. :)
Posted by: David Marjanović | November 8, 2008 12:08 PM
The Old World monkeys are more closely related to us than to the New World monkeys... If you want to use the term "monkey" at all, then we have monkeys among our ancestors.
What future?
Posted by: Chris Davis | November 8, 2008 12:11 PM
The point is, Castletonsnob, that we humans and monkeys are both descended from a fairly distant common ancestor.
More recently, however, we apes split from the monkey side of the family, and we don't like to think of them as more than second cousins nowadays.
Posted by: raven | November 8, 2008 12:11 PM
Looks like the GOP will vote for hari kari, suicide. Rather thoughtful of them really. Better they commit suicide than bring the USA down first in a murder-suicide duo.
Posted by: Mozglubov | November 8, 2008 12:20 PM
@ Zhok, #8
Yes, it is primarily the puppet masters, but without knowing exactly who they are, it is difficult to rip into them. For Bush, I think many people recognize that Cheney was in many ways in charge, and many people despise Cheney as much or more. Even if the puppet masters are entirely in charge, though, it is still the fault of the candidate that they lack both the intellectual strength and commitment to truth that would allow them to be their own person (at least to a certain degree, I recognize all politicians have a certain degree of behind the scenes manipulation to attend to). Not caring enough to know enough to realise that you are being manipulated into a terrible and indefensible position is worthy of contempt, in my books.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 8, 2008 12:25 PM
They are using not being able to name the counries of North America as a sign of serious ignorance. Not to claim Gov. Palin isn't grossly ignorant but is naming the countries in North America actually all that easy?
I wouldn't know whether to include the little central American ones (I think geographers tend to) or the Caribbean islands (and I'd be bound to miss some if I tried). Bermuda? Greenland?
Posted by: Ken Cope | November 8, 2008 12:27 PM
#58, aw shucks, now I'm gonna be speechless for a while.[/blush]
Posted by: Tim H | November 8, 2008 12:28 PM
---"Tis Himself said
Palin isn't a genius but she isn't stupid either. She's extremely ignorant about even quite basic things like world geography and foreign affairs. I believe her main problem is that she doesn't know what she doesn't know. ---
I agree, but some elaboration is needed. Not only does she not know what she doesn't know, she doesn't care about what she doesn't know. She doesn't value knowledge.
But she's not stupid. It's just that all her fuctioning brain cells are dedicated to image, not substance. That makes her good at politics. It did take political skill to craft her image and beat the old boy establishment in the Alaska GOP. One of her first acts as governor was to hire a publicist. In this regard she is very similar to Bush- good at the shallow political performance arts, incompetent at actual policy.
Posted by: jimmiraybob | November 8, 2008 12:29 PM
I tell ya, if your not working for a Palin/Joe the Plumber ticket for 2012 your not a commie, socialist, islamo-caliphate-enabling, terrorist coddling, godless-horde-worshiping, liberal fascist America hater worth you salt.
Shovel Baby Shovel!
Posted by: Ken Cope | November 8, 2008 12:33 PM
Not to claim Gov. Palin isn't grossly ignorant but is naming the countries in North America actually all that easy?
The only ones she needed to be able to name were the NAFTA signatories: Canada, The United States, and Mexico. NAFTA had been a big deal in the primaries.
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 12:33 PM
Oh, great - and it's my fault. Talk about unintended consequences.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 8, 2008 12:34 PM
and probably is proud of her ignorance. Maybe not but it's a common personality ..um..
characteristicflaw of those types.Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 8, 2008 12:36 PM
Or as john stewart said
Us, Gay us, and the burrito place.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 8, 2008 12:43 PM
Humm. meant to put a link with that last one
Here
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 8, 2008 12:45 PM
HA! Ok that's good evidence of ignorance.Posted by: Ken Cope | November 8, 2008 12:47 PM
#68 and it's my fault.
Not so! I'm suffering through time management issues that are making a course in Symbolic Logic even more challenging than it should be, while also having to regurgitate a US History teacher's views on history. Last week we were covering the 1950s, during which I was at least present (1955) and found myself correcting him. "Beatniks." "No, that was a Herb Caen pejorative. They were 'The Beat Generation' or just 'The Beats.'" When commenting on the election, he told us he didn't think there was much of a future for Sarah Palin, but we should watch out for a future rising star of the GOP, Bobby Jindal, I'd already used my outside voice to respond, "The theocrat who wrote about performing an exorcism on a classmate when he was in college?" I don't know why I was busy learning how to animate instead of getting a degree for the credentials to teach back in the 70s, but I'm paying the price now.
So, I lurk way more than I'd like.
Posted by: Ken Cope | November 8, 2008 12:54 PM
#69 is proud of her ignorance.
She has the confidence of one who believes she was ordained and appointed by goB to succeed. Do you suppose she blames the outcome of the election on some of those Guys! and Gals! who just weren't prayin' hard enough? Fightin' that spiritual warfare is what this election was all about, ya know?
Posted by: negentropyeater | November 8, 2008 12:55 PM
This thing that a lot of right-wing pundits like to repeat like parrots drives me crazy : "that if there hadn't been this market crash, the GOP might have won..."
Do they realise what they are saying these idiots ?
How can they separate the market crash from the past history of policy mistakes ?
I mean already for at least a year before the crash, most people with half a brain knew that the recession clock was ticking, but Bush tried very hard during that period to postpone as much as possible the evidence of a recession with a useless stimulus and manipulation of economic data.
Oh, if they could hav hidden it a little longer !
Assholes.
It's a bit as if the captain of Titanic would have said, "if that Iceberg hadn't been there, we wouldn't have sunk."
Posted by: Monado in Toronto | November 8, 2008 12:55 PM
Is Hank Fox off the air? I just referred to his blog for his story of how evolutionary knowledge cured his racism: "Earthman's Notebook: Thank you, Mr. Darwin. Again." and came up with "site not found." Could he be economizing? Would he take contributions?
Q. Are humans descended from monkey?
A. No more than you are descended from your third cousins.
Q. How come there are still chimpanzees?
A. Did your uncles die when you were born?
Posted by: Gary Bohn | November 8, 2008 12:59 PM
Ah yes, tribalism in action. I guess when it comes to monkeys, we're all conservatives.
Did I just insult conservatives, or monkeys?
Posted by: negentropyeater | November 8, 2008 1:01 PM
Continuing on post #75, it's easy to deny reality :
when these right-wing pundits say "if there hadn't been this market crash, the GOP might have won", what they mean in the real world is "if there hadn't been 8 years of Bush before, the GOP might have won".
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 1:03 PM
Be kind. I don't have any nontraditional students where I'm currently teaching (though I adore and respect the students that I do have). When I did in the past, I loved their contributions, but at the same time feared saying something historically ignorant. I must have done a decent job, since no one that I recall ever challeged the factual accuracy of my historical statements. That said, I would never expect, or want, my students to regurgitate my views, since I genuinely want them to think critically. It's a shame when professors do. I'm sorry you're having to deal with that.
I always enjoy your comments here.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 8, 2008 1:04 PM
Well, if we want to use in a way that is neat and logical from a scientific point of view it would seem to imply that we (and out fellow apes) ARE monkeys, right?Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 8, 2008 1:04 PM
Yes, I'm afraid it's absolutely true: humans did, in fact, descend from monkeys. Certainly not from any extant species we call a "monkey," but equally certainly both the common ancestor of us apes and extant Old World "monkeys" and the common ancestor of extant New World and Old World "monkeys" would have to be classified as "monkeys" if we could identify them. I find the "common ancestor" answer to be misleading and disingenuous. The right answer is straightforward agreement: Yes! I descended from monkeys and so did you! Also from synapsids, lobe-finned fishes, and various "worms." Deal with it.
Posted by: The Chemist | November 8, 2008 1:05 PM
I think it just dawned on me. HOLY SHIT! Obama's going to be president! He actually won!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 8, 2008 1:08 PM
Right now I'm guessing she's out in her back yard with her AR-15 taking shots at pictures of McCain's campaign staff.
Posted by: Monado in Toronto | November 8, 2008 1:12 PM
Never mind - the problems with connecting to Hank Fox were on my end. He's back.
Thanks for naming the Dunning-Kruger effect; I was thinking of it the other night when I said that Palin was not stupid but unskilled and unaware of it and thus overestimated her abilities. It's weapons-grade ignorance.
Posted by: SC | November 8, 2008 1:12 PM
Rev.,
What's the link I had in mind in #36?