…and this is a 
I wish this were a Poe
Category: Weirdness
Posted on: November 23, 2008 9:38 AM, by PZ Myers
But it seems to be serious. You have to read Christians AGAINST Cartoons — it claims that most cartoons are part of an anti-Christian campaign, and that they promote unwholesome values (like, say, a sense of humor). You will learn that Dora the Explorer promotes SATANISM and COMMUNISM, and that she has a TALKING GOAT (nudge, nudge). Hello Kitty leads children into Egyptian paganism. Adult Swim Sin is nothing but pornography and perversion. As for Spongebob Squarepants…Heads of the BEAST Ridden by the Mother of HARLOTS!!! Abomination of the Earth!!!
Man, now I have a real itch to turn on Nickelodeon and the Cartoon Network.
Comments
Posted by: Diego | November 23, 2008 9:45 AM
Are you sure that this isn't an example of Poe's Law? I strongly suspect satire here.
Posted by: Tracy | November 23, 2008 9:48 AM
I vote for parody, based on the posts being authored by "Bro. Cletus."
Posted by: Seiberwing | November 23, 2008 9:49 AM
Admittedly, Adult Swim isn't the most family-friendly of shows.
But I'm thinking this is a joke.
Posted by: LotharLoo | November 23, 2008 9:50 AM
The religious can be this stupid. No need to invoke Poe.
For example, the religious Iranian profession claims, Tom and Jerry and Jewish conspiracy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40VFcJTIduw
Posted by: clinteas | November 23, 2008 9:54 AM
Hm,
I lean towards Poe...
But such is the nature of Poe's law,that you cannot tell !!
Posted by: Paul Burnett | November 23, 2008 9:56 AM
This reminds me of the whacko rhetoric that led up to the Comics Code Authority - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority and particularly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent
...and here's a bonus illustration for PZ:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Goodgirls2.jpg
Posted by: Narc | November 23, 2008 9:57 AM
That's got to be a Poe. Every article has the byline of "Bro. Cletus", and notice that the "God Hates Gays" link in the sideline is a parody.
This, of course, just proves that Poe's Law is one of the fundamental laws of the universe.
Posted by: Joe | November 23, 2008 9:59 AM
I really thought this website was satire. It can be so hard to tell.
I was struck by the quotation, regarding "beestiality"-sex with bees!:
"And note that Hollywood wasn't content to begin with a man and dog or woman and horse relationship, but went even further with its arrogance by green lighting sex between American women and bugs!
For as it says in Leviticus 11:27:
"And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcass shall be unclean until the even."
Who thinks insects have four paws?
Posted by: J Myers | November 23, 2008 10:01 AM
Are you kidding me? Obvious satire.
Posted by: AJ Milne | November 23, 2008 10:03 AM
Lo, they are a wicked people. For they have not kept our commandments. And have laughed at Robot Chicken.
Verily, there is no health in them.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD | November 23, 2008 10:04 AM
I think it is real. No one would go to that much work without a few more obvious clues if it were Poe. But as clinteas says, you cannot tell.
Posted by: Little Orphan Annie | November 23, 2008 10:10 AM
DAMN! They're on to us!!!!
Posted by: 'This Himself | November 23, 2008 10:14 AM
If saying "happy holidays" is a sign of the anti-Christ, then how can anyone doubt that SpongeBob SquarePants is a minion of Satan?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | November 23, 2008 10:15 AM
Come on. This is satire. Quite good satire too.
Posted by: alex | November 23, 2008 10:15 AM
POE POE POE POE POE
Posted by: Orac | November 23, 2008 10:16 AM
I vote satire.
Posted by: Noam Zur | November 23, 2008 10:21 AM
I SO hope this is satire... but I can't say for sure.
However - why stop there? It's not only on TV, after all.
Dilbert shows us the downward spiral of stopping to think by being micromanaged (substitute pointy-haired by pointy-hatted), where Garfield shows Egyptian paganism just as much as Hello Kitty does, in addition to promoting sloth and gluttony...
Posted by: Tom Woolf | November 23, 2008 10:22 AM
There is no freaking way that is NOT a parody site. C'mon - that can't be real...... Only one minor statement about South Park?
Posted by: spyderkl | November 23, 2008 10:26 AM
Hello Kitty is a gateway for Egyptian paganism? Well, I'm happy it's good for something, because my daughter is obsessed by Teh Kitteh. Drives me crazy, which I guess is part of the appeal.
If it's not satire, it sure reads like it. Yes, it does.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | November 23, 2008 10:31 AM
Whats the deal with "egyptian paganism"? Don't they know their own religion is based partly on the ideas of early egyptian religions?
This is sillyness on the same scale as people who think christmas is solely a christian holiday.
Posted by: Alfonso Armenta | November 23, 2008 10:38 AM
What a bunch of fucktards...
Posted by: MissPrism | November 23, 2008 10:39 AM
I vote satire. It's very close to the Poe line, though!
Posted by: Spook | November 23, 2008 10:44 AM
So how do they feel about Jack Chick?
Posted by: Zeno | November 23, 2008 10:49 AM
I vote for parody. Especially after I read the link about how Jesus uses his carrot.
Say, does anyone know if there is a "Poe detector" out there? It would be tricky to devise one.
Posted by: Random Chimp | November 23, 2008 10:50 AM
I ran the domain name against the whois database and it came back as registered to a Brendan Burch
A Google search for that name reveals a Brendan Burch as the CEO "Six Point Harness Studios" (which just so happens to be an animation studio... oh the irony...)
Posted by: bigjohn756 | November 23, 2008 10:51 AM
Poe or not? I think it's difficult to decide, but, it seems to me that the prose at Christians AGAINST Cartoons is reminiscent of that used on the Landover Baptist Church site. (Disclaimer: I am a fervent follower of Pastor Deacon Fred and his Church.)
Posted by: Prof MTH | November 23, 2008 10:58 AM
It may be for real. One of the outgoing links is to an anti-catholic website which contains some fairly standard ignorant Protestant propaganda against Catholicism. Another outgoing link is to Guideposts, a Reader's Digest like magazine commonly found in religious affiliated hospitals.
But what about the Rankin and Bass cartoons?!?! They have talking animals and a anthropomorphized Mother Nature.
Posted by: Rand Careaga | November 23, 2008 11:01 AM
C'mon, PZ. Your irony detector is miscalibrated. "Bee for Besiality" indeed.
Posted by: george.wiman | November 23, 2008 11:11 AM
I'm totally getting satire vibes from this one. What does it say about Christians that it's hard to tell?
Posted by: Didac | November 23, 2008 11:20 AM
Frankly, it's pretty clear that it is a Poe. Phraseology such as "There are disturbing things in the "Dora the Explorer: Dance to the Rescue" DVD. This is potentially the most dangerous and blasphemous cartoon I have yet reviewed for this site" contains typical exageration of parodies.
The problem is that parody of religious bigotry is only funny if that bigotry is not specially on rise. If bigotry is on the rise, parody loses part of its sense unless it is made in a utterly ridiculizing way.
Posted by: I am so wise | November 23, 2008 11:23 AM
This may be parody, but Answers in Genesis has not failed us. TV is evil. http://www.answersingenesis.org/us/newsletters/0107lead.asp
Posted by: Bert Chadick | November 23, 2008 11:24 AM
I'd guess POE, but I've read the flat earth sites and they are deadly serious.
Adult Swim gems they missed: "The Venture Brothers", "Lucy, Daughter of the Devil", "Moral Orel".
Of course the "South Park Easter Show" is an all time favorite for the discriminating heathen.
Posted by: scrabcake | November 23, 2008 11:24 AM
This is definately a Poe. I know because my p'oemeter returned the "laugh" function instead of the "cringe" function. Also, hello kitty looks nothing like sakhmet, who is a lion headded goddess. Hello kitty is surely Tamiwt ( Egyptian for "teh kitteh"), a lesser demon of the underworld.
Posted by: JT | November 23, 2008 11:24 AM
It's definitely a parody. The easiest way to tell is by what this page is conspicuously missing: errors. This guy knows the subject entirely too well to be a non-fan.
Posted by: trj | November 23, 2008 11:25 AM
Regardless of whether that site is satrirical, there really are some people who are this demented ("Harry Potter promotes witchcraft" springs to mind).
Here's a clear-cut example, which is not satire (although it is funny in its own idiotic way):
http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1021.html.
Apparently, My Little Pony is a tool for the Anti-christ, and smurfs promote satanism.
Posted by: CS | November 23, 2008 11:27 AM
This is satire. Check out some of the links on the left, particularly the "Gods and Gays" one which contains an interview with Jesus about how much he hates the gays.
Posted by: matt | November 23, 2008 11:27 AM
Got to be satire. The level on intelligence and articulation in the prose is too high for it to be a truly crazy christian site. Plus, they referenced Rick "man-on-dog" Santorum! Sweet!
Posted by: cadicusthedamned | November 23, 2008 11:28 AM
I call POE. This was one of the sister site links:
http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html
What does the Bible say about Homosexuality?
In the Book of Romans:
"Thou shalt only put thy greased up carrot into barnholes."
In the Book of Moses:
"And God said, 'You are a bunch of stupid faggots and I hate you all.'"
In the Book of Corintheans:
"Screw off, you filthy homosexual pigs! You're all a bunch of retarded perverts! God vomits all over you, you stupid morons!"
In the Book of Proverbs:
"Don't give into your desires. It is best to live a lie for your entire life."
Those aren't quotes from my King James Version of the Bible. Maybe the New International version though...
Posted by: Jim Anderson | November 23, 2008 11:30 AM
Random Chimp, above, is right. Brandon Burch is an animator with a sense of humor and a lot of spare time.
Posted by: Zeno | November 23, 2008 11:30 AM
For earnest Christian fun that often seems to be a Poe but is really sincere, check out the movie reviews at ChildCare Action Project. These poor people actually count and catalog every profanity in movie dialog in their bizarre reviews. The South Park Movie really caused them to bust a gasket and blow a fuse (it's a must-read review).
The website is rather a mess and the reviews aren't updated as rapidly as they once were, but it's a clear window into the Christ-ridden Bible-twisted mind of the true believer. Scary!
Posted by: Gary | November 23, 2008 11:31 AM
As the author of the only (as far as I know) Loki creationist post nominated for a POTM at t.o., in my expert* opinion, this is a well done satire.
*I really can't tell the difference between my ass and a hole in the ground.
Posted by: Morkleb | November 23, 2008 11:31 AM
I hope this is satire, but I have my doubts. As someone else said, there was a lot of effort put into this site...
Posted by: Neil B | November 23, 2008 11:38 AM
This link is satire, but it expresses what many Christians are like (hat tip to Sullivan):
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/im_not_one_of_those_love_thy
BTW for anyone interested in the issues of Many-Worlds theory and decoherence, I'm having some discussions at my blog.
Posted by: Freakin 'n' Nerd | November 23, 2008 11:42 AM
As "trj" (#35) says, whether Poe or not (and I've not made up my mind as to that), the reality is there ARE people who really think this way! As a former fundmenentalist christian I believed some pretty paranoid stuff. In other words you begin to see the devil everywhere. The first time I saw "Cocoon" I left the theater shivering because I just knew the aliens were "demons" diguised as "angels of light". It's an insanity that seems hard to believe exists unless you've actually been there
Posted by: co | November 23, 2008 11:47 AM
Zeno@ 40: Thanks for that link. I did read the South Park review. It (and the movie) was great!
I also googled "Thomas A. Carder", the wacko CCAP's President. I'm not sure if it's the same guy who published a book titled Handling of Radiation Accident Patients by Paramedical and Hospital Personnel. That poor book gets a bad review based on a coincidence of names. Does anyone know if the book's author and the CCAP President are the same person?
Posted by: Bronze Dog | November 23, 2008 11:48 AM
Parody or not, that's quite silly. Except for the SpongeBob part. We know he's evil, because he's Kira.
Posted by: Neil B | November 23, 2008 11:50 AM
This site linked to from the featured site clearly looks phony, so I wonder about the whole thing:
http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html
Posted by: Steve in MI, Sfs/PZM | November 23, 2008 11:56 AM
Help, teh gay! Itz contagious! And itz commin tru my tee vee!
Posted by: Moses | November 23, 2008 12:01 PM
Poe. I think the Bro. Cletus thing is an homage to Jesus' General and his mythical "not gay" friend, Cletus.
Posted by: deep | November 23, 2008 12:06 PM
"he continuously lives in this deceptively fun looking hell."
The is nothing deceptively fun in Foster's home for imaginary friends, it IS fun.
Posted by: Tualha | November 23, 2008 12:08 PM
I'm sure it's a parody.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 23, 2008 12:10 PM
Seriously? Pretty clearly parody from where I sit. I would be interested, though, in Bro. Cletus's treatment of what, IMO, is just about the only thing worth watching on television: Avatar.Posted by: Sili | November 23, 2008 12:14 PM
So, if someone was to show him Superbook or one of the other 'wholesome' Bible-exploring cartoons, would his head explode?
Posted by: ChrisKG | November 23, 2008 12:17 PM
I couldn't help but notice that there is a cartoon graven image of Jesus at the bottom of the main page. Strange.
As for the Family Guy, they are dead on and that's what makes it funny.
Posted by: Greg Laden | November 23, 2008 12:17 PM
One of my readers has discovered conclusive evidence that this is a parody. (his comment is in my url, above)
For me, I was suspicious of the rotating animated GIF crosses. But that's just me.
Posted by: bmeissner | November 23, 2008 12:18 PM
Pretty sure that it is either a parody, or they accidently linked to a parody. This was one of their links:
http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html
My Poe alarm is ringing like hell.
Posted by: Sydney S. | November 23, 2008 12:18 PM
I don't know PZ, I think you may be wrong on this one. I think this is more likely a Poe, albeit one of the more entertaining ones I've seen.
Posted by: Ygern | November 23, 2008 12:25 PM
Hard to tell. Its so absurd, it ought to be.
But there are real Brother Cletuses out there - so it might be for real
http://www.brothercletus.com/
Posted by: Adviser Moppet | November 23, 2008 12:26 PM
They missed another Adult Swim show, it's one of my favorites. SUPERJAIL! They couldn't get a more raunchy, violent, bloody, gory show even if they scoured the Earth.
Posted by: ÃĐ | November 23, 2008 12:30 PM
BTW for the naive amongst us, someone please define "Poe" - is it an acronym for a parody site, i couldn't find the def. on google, tx
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 23, 2008 12:33 PM
Totally transparent parody.
Posted by: s9 | November 23, 2008 12:35 PM
My vote is for culture jamming.
Posted by: SteveR | November 23, 2008 12:36 PM
It's a parody..
His review of Megas XLR says that it promotes the idea that "it's okay to be white trash".. Still very funny.
Posted by: Ygern | November 23, 2008 12:36 PM
Poe: where a parody or satire is almost indistinguishable from a genuine rant.
Posted by: Frasque | November 23, 2008 12:37 PM
Well, Venture Bros. did have a character who used equations to prove Catholicism was a lie (of course, it turned out later the same equation was wrong about the existence of chupacabras).
Posted by: GuyIncognito | November 23, 2008 12:56 PM
This article seems to be arguing that the opposite is true:
Dora the Explorer and the Dirty Secrets of the Global Industrial Economy
Posted by: Random Chimp | November 23, 2008 12:57 PM
ÃĐ said:
Poe as in Poe's Law:
Posted by: John | November 23, 2008 1:01 PM
#44-
Absolutely. I believe that what makes Poe's law work is a deep congruity with Rule 34:
No religious doctrine exists that is so nutty that it is not promoted by some member(s) of Christianity. Therefore, satire is impossible: for the satirical situation, if it does not already exist, will sprout into being when it encounters the fertile ground of Christian dumbness.
------------
From my own experience, here are a few examples learned while attending a fundie Baptist private school: (this is around 1980, btw)
Smurfs were satanic. But that one's common, really! Google it!
Mars has canals, left there by the Noahic flood. Kinda retro for 1980.
If that one's not retro enough... The principal devoutly believed that apple cores are poisonous. No, not from the usual cyanide excuse; rather, the ancient pagan source of the Christian superstition. Cut an apple in half side-to-side rather than top to bottom, and you might see a pentagram with seeds at the points. He told us kids we'd summon demons which would possess us if we cut an apple this way, and that demons would torment us if we ate the core. (by the way, he's still teaching. In a public school.)
Posted by: Kagehi | November 23, 2008 1:03 PM
Umm. Got to be a Poe. There is no way they could watch Adult Swim, and "completely" miss Morel Orel, which is 100%, completely and totally, dedicated to mocking their religion... I mean seriously, the last several episodes have had the kid a) successfully convince his father to ban eggs as coming from a dirty place, b) his father, over the same egg issue, start an extra marital affair with the crazy loon that started Orel on the whole "ban sinful things" craze, due to them both being egg lovers (she was quite distraught at Orel picketing eggs, but went on with it anyway, since she couldn't admit she was full of it), and finally, in the latest I saw, he is caught masturbating, gets told its a sin to kill "potential" babies, get the idea in his head, from his father, than its OK as long as it isn't wasted, so becomes, "God's baker", running around the neighborhood at night using a frosting bag to get rid of his seed in sleeping women, only to later get told its only a) the missionary position that is right and b) "use of fun items during sex is a sin too".
I mean, you can just see every fundie loony in the kid, convinced he is trying to follow the right path, but too ignorant about "anything" resembling reality, to not get all of it dead wrong, or recognize that he has.
So, yeah. If they can find the "Sin", cartoon, but completely miss Morel Orel... Its Poe. lol
Posted by: Guy Incognito | November 23, 2008 1:07 PM
Urban Dictionary, though annoying at times, is your friend:
Poe's Law
I especially love the second definition.
Posted by: Lee Picton | November 23, 2008 1:21 PM
No question about it, it is satire. For one thing, there are a LOT of exclamation points. The quality of the writing is too high for it to be a fundie site (I check up on them occasionally and they are totally devoid of humor). This produced giggles rather than head-shaking and "brother Cletus" is nearly a clone of Pastor Deacon Fred. This was produced by someone with some real talent - maybe even an unfortunate recently out of work in this economy
Posted by: Dave | November 23, 2008 1:26 PM
Within the next two weeks, you will see that God will not be mocked. You have been warned!!
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 23, 2008 1:27 PM
Weirdly, that second definition does seem to be what the Harry Lee Poe mentioned there really wrote. The Poe's law on parody was (according to rational wiki) due to some liberal Christian on a Christian forum called Nathan Poe. Wikipedia's list of eponymous laws also carries an (Edgar Allan) Poe's law on the length of poems.Posted by: Kev | November 23, 2008 1:35 PM
Satire - and very sweet. The domain registrant (Brendan Burch, as Random Chimp said) is listed as a producer of "Sunday Pants", a TV comedy show that includes characters like "Gordon the Devil". Yup, quite nice.
Posted by: bill ringo | November 23, 2008 1:37 PM
It almost seems like a spoof but it goes on and on and etc.
Posted by: Sven DIMilo | November 23, 2008 1:39 PM
Dave (#72): Could you please specify to whom your weird cowardly threat is addressed? Thanks!
Posted by: Godless Woman | November 23, 2008 1:40 PM
I vote Poe based on the advertisement for MetalForJesus.com the link reads: "These guys love Jesus HARDER than anyone we know! METAL FOR JESUS.COM".
Posted by: 'This Himself | November 23, 2008 1:41 PM
The Urban Dictionary says
I've come across enough fundie nuttiness that nothing attributed to them would surprise me.
Posted by: Cannabinaceae | November 23, 2008 1:44 PM
"If it tastes good, spit it out"
Seems to be a meme (or perhaps it is a phene) that combines with self-righteousness and a little bit of self-discipline to form a hard-to-escape positive feedback loop. I can give up candy bars*, and it makes me feel superior; you should do what I do or else you are inferior, I posture. If you sputter it encourages my self-righteousness, and rewards my self-discipline. If you endorse it does the same. Positive feedback.
Getting the self-righteousness-addicted to give up that indulgence is one of the hardest jobs, whether they obsess over Jebus or Joo-joo beans.
*An example. In the present context it would be reason that would be sacrificed.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 23, 2008 1:48 PM
See that>/emWhile we are playing "is it a parody", maybe some of you can help me out with notedscholarPosted by: Sastra | November 23, 2008 1:51 PM
Took a look around, and I too agree that PZ has gotten his wish. It's satire. I'm guessing that those who put the website together love laughing at feedback from those who don't get it. If they follow the traffic from the Pharyngula link, they're snickering even now over the 'debate' in these comments. Sure, it's kinda hard to tell. That's their point.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have the smoking gun clincher which the last site we were arguing Poe-or-No over had: an online store for the site which sells WWJD thongs.
Posted by: Tim Fuller | November 23, 2008 1:54 PM
No, I don't have to read it, but thanks for the offer.
Enjoy.
Posted by: JackC | November 23, 2008 1:56 PM
Poe, most definitely- though it is hard to tell without the (implied) quotation marks.
Oh... wait.... haven't we done that already?
JC
Posted by: Dagger | November 23, 2008 1:56 PM
Oh, now way that site is serious. Look at that links page if you're still deciding. I mean, really, "Jesus Hate Stupid Homosexuals Like You" (http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html)? Poe.
Posted by: John | November 23, 2008 1:57 PM
Meant as parody or not, all of the examples have real analogues which can be found with a quick Google search.
Adult swim? No problem, vastly hated.
Spongebob? A veritable treasure trove of... Satan! He'll give your kids the Gay, too.
Dora? Disappointing. Very low incident of Satan.... Until you throw in racism, then the flood gates open.
Make up a wacko Christian belief. Someone, somewhere believes it, or a reasonable analogue.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 23, 2008 2:02 PM
*mends markup*
See that is Poe's law in action. 2 exclamations but no "!!!1one". A faintly comical, non-specific threat. I've no idea if that's real.While we are playing "is it a parody", maybe some of you can help me out with notedscholar
Posted by: kerovon | November 23, 2008 2:37 PM
It is definetly satire. Both CaC and six point harness are registered out of LA, to the same man, Brendan Burch.
Posted by: jimmiraybob | November 23, 2008 2:41 PM
Uh, technically I think Dora the Explorer promotes adoraciÃģn de diablo y comunismo.
ÂŋEspaÃąol de enseÃąanza? ÂĄVaca santa!
So, it's really worse than they think.
Posted by: Susannah | November 23, 2008 2:42 PM
Poe. They don't ask for donations after each item.
Posted by: Strider | November 23, 2008 3:10 PM
At a post-meeting dinner I was speaking to a fellow DOI employee and somehow one of the topics was cartoons and she said she doesn't let her kids watch SpongeBob. My colleague and I looked at each other and expressed our shock at this; I mean, really, SpongeBob? A harmless, very amusing show, right? Perhaps this explains it.
Posted by: SC | November 23, 2008 3:12 PM
From the most recent post:
Hmmmm. I'm going with a very clever sort of parody designed to get people to think. (But I might not be very good at this - I thought for several weeks that Pete Rooke was an avant-garde art piece.)
Posted by: JM Inc. | November 23, 2008 3:12 PM
Adult Swim? Harvey Birdman for the wayne!
...
Think I'll go engage in some sodomoy now.... *cue laughtrack*
Posted by: Hank Fox | November 23, 2008 3:12 PM
It's worth reminding ourselves that the confusion over whether this is an example of Poe's Law or not is significant in that, if you can't tell the difference between the real thing and a ridiculous parody, the real thing is so bent that it's impossible for it to be any good.
... And then maybe remind ourselves of Poe's Law itself: that no matter how blatant the parody, some people will still take it seriously. Right now there are probably parents writing letters to Congress about Dora the Explorer.
I did laugh at the image far down the Christians Against Cartoons home page, of a TV screen switching back and forth from a goat-headed Beast to the huggable blue-furred "Sulley" from Monsters, Inc.
This link from the CAC page -- http://www.capalert.com/ -- might just be the ugliest website I've ever seen. And the Christian "Movie Ministry Analyses" on it are multiply disturbing.
Posted by: Scrambled Stoic | November 23, 2008 3:13 PM
Another vote for Poe. When whackaloonery reaches that sort of extreme, the writer usually is no longer capable of expressing his/her thoughts as clearly as the satirist.
The fundies who are most obsessed with censoring or suppressing forms of mass media usually tend to have a healthy dose of Luddite in the mix, too (eg. Jack Thompson.) Brother Cletus' nice Photoshop work in the Dora article runs dramatically counter to that trend, whereas Photoshop skill is a great asset for a satirist.
Posted by: Jimi 45 | November 23, 2008 3:13 PM
PUNK'D, SUCKER!!!
Dude, c'mon. Srsly.
I know there are enough Xian whackjobs out there to make this seem plausible--that's why it's so successful--but do a little research.
P.S.- babysue rocks--25 years of spreading adolescent mayhem in the American South and still goin' strong!
Posted by: Austin! | November 23, 2008 3:19 PM
Satire, but straight-faced enough to make you wonder. It reminds me of Objective Ministries, the most extensive parody site that I've ever seen (Objective goes even further, containing links to countless Christian sites and businesses that are just as ridiculous as Objective is pretending to be).
http://objectiveministries.org/
And as for a "Poe Detector," I think Susannah@89 has the best one so far.
Posted by: ScottKnick | November 23, 2008 3:19 PM
Yeah, they give the game away with Bee is for Bestiality and Hello Anubis. And the "red ants" thing -- gimme a break.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | November 23, 2008 3:31 PM
But what does Christians Against Cartoons have to say about 'toons of Mohammed???
Posted by: Austin! | November 23, 2008 3:31 PM
Oh, and the fact that their acronym in a homophone of 'cack' is another clue.
Posted by: Randallphobia | November 23, 2008 3:48 PM
I agree with the people who think that it might be parody.
It sounds so much like Landover Baptist Church that I started laughing.
Posted by: GuyIncognito | November 23, 2008 3:53 PM
Roger Ebert would have seen the satire from a mile away. You, sir, are no Roger Ebert!
Posted by: Vorn | November 23, 2008 3:56 PM
To be fair, Adult Swim is rather a cesspool.
Posted by: Baraeris | November 23, 2008 3:56 PM
I wish it were Poe too, but you should see the site. Nobody puts that much effort into a gag.
Posted by: Michael | November 23, 2008 4:06 PM
Definitely a Poe:
"This interview with Jesus was conducted specifically with screwed-up homosexuals like you in mind." (http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html)
Posted by: omg no! | November 23, 2008 4:13 PM
NOONE I MEAN NOONE WILL EVER GET AWAY WITH TALKING BAD ABOUT SPONGEBOB AS LONG AS IM AROUND. I'LL GUT YA!
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 23, 2008 4:24 PM
Yeah they do. Objective Ministries is much more extensive.Posted by: Raphael | November 23, 2008 4:44 PM
I thought that was bad, but at least it made me laugh. However, a sidebar link, Gods and Gays- was worse.
Far, far, far worse.
http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html
Posted by: Raphael | November 23, 2008 4:48 PM
Wait, upon reading further, it IS a Poe.
Which means, the original site must be as well, since it's a direct link.
Jeez, for a minute there, I thought religion had seriously gone off the deep end. Wait...
Posted by: Marcus Christian | November 23, 2008 4:50 PM
So "Foster's home for imaginary friends" teaches kids that its OK to have an imaginary friend and they have an issue with that? Wouldn't that actually be something they'd want?
I may have missed it, but did SouthPark escape?
Posted by: Jadehawk | November 23, 2008 4:51 PM
#40
I love the reviews at CAP, it almost makes me sad that they're running out of funding and are doing fewer of them now. it's always amusing to read the reviews of favorite movies :-)
Posted by: jayh | November 23, 2008 5:46 PM
That poor book gets a bad review based on a coincidence of names. Does anyone know if the book's author and the CCAP President are the same person?
People who google my unusual real world name get a medical researcher who's published several papers and a doctor. They would also find some of my tirades (especially on the cypherpunks list in the 90s) that would, as my brother put it, "render me unelectable".
They must hate it.
Posted by: Ron Brown | November 23, 2008 5:57 PM
Ha. Their acronym is CAC. How's this for a slogan "Conservative Christians LOVE the CAC!"?
Posted by: casey | November 23, 2008 6:02 PM
#46
That was hilarious! Thank you for that link.
Posted by: buttonwillow | November 23, 2008 6:08 PM
#47, babysue is not phony! They did a cartoon about me once! It's not online though :(
Posted by: Rob Jupp | November 23, 2008 6:14 PM
Come on! This HAS to be a joke, surely. Nobody, not even the devout, could be that stupid. Please, tell me I'll right.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap | November 23, 2008 6:38 PM
I vote Poe, mostly because the fundie Christians often object to fiction for much the same reasons as stated in the CAC site. Librarians in public libraries in fundie areas have reported that they often have parents asking them not to check out fiction books to their children or let their children read fiction. The fear of imagination has its roots in a fear of their children losing the ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality (no joke, this is their fear, as they explain it) and not so much on the "being led astray" angle. Making a special site for denouncing cartoons is a bit redundant, even for them.
Posted by: Adrienne | November 23, 2008 7:35 PM
Nah, it's a satire.
Posted by: Mike | November 23, 2008 7:41 PM
That CAC is a tongue-in-cheek. If you check out the links, you'll see that it's all in fun.
Posted by: Dahan | November 23, 2008 7:49 PM
Poe.
Posted by: jomega | November 23, 2008 7:54 PM
After 116 comments, I think this this thing's status as Poe has been well established. Now I feel compelled to direct the weary Pharynguloid's gaze to the blessedly wonderful http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/ Bro. Cletus linked to. I don't think it's been updated in this Century, but it's sincerely cracked and chock full of Jesusy Goodness! There used to be some fantastical refutations of the Copernican Heresy, for example. I always wondered if the site's creator knew that the hacking-armored-knight animation was from the game DIABLO?!
Posted by: Greg | November 23, 2008 8:21 PM
This is satire, no question.
See the links on the site, such as:
http://www.babysue.com/jesushates.html
The "Bro. Cletus" as sole author of everything is also a tip-off.
At least some atheists can be as gullible as some fundamentalist Christians. :-)
Posted by: pablo | November 23, 2008 8:54 PM
Satire. It's got Landover Baptist written all over it.
Posted by: pablo | November 23, 2008 8:57 PM
I also love the CAP Alert movie reviews. My favorite category is "Statue Nudity". Yep if there's a statue of a naked person in a movie, it gets a negative point.
Posted by: Stan | November 23, 2008 9:09 PM
Too bad they haven't found an evil cartoon in almost a year, though...
Still, the site is hilarious!! LOL
Chavez, Castro, Satan himself (??), and a Dora the Explorer DVD in the same photo? Priceless!!!
Posted by: Sastra | November 23, 2008 9:14 PM
Ok, I have a question now. I've been working on the assumption that if some religious article or website is a "Poe," then this means that it's a satire. That's what I mean by the term. A "Poe" is a parody which is so spot on, it's hard to tell it apart from the real thing.
But I'm getting the impression from some of the comments that others are applying the term in the opposite sense: if it's a "Poe," then it's a genuine bit of religious crankery which is indistinguishable from satire. It's sincere. But nuts.
So which is it? Poe = satire? Or not? And is everyone on the same page here?
Posted by: Sastra | November 23, 2008 9:16 PM
forgot to add: PZ is clearly using it in the first sense...
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 23, 2008 9:19 PM
First sense. Poe = parody.
Posted by: S.Scott | November 23, 2008 9:22 PM
As long as you are watching cartoons --- I suggest "Dexter".
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | November 23, 2008 10:01 PM
Posted by: pablo | November 23, 2008
I also love the CAP Alert movie reviews. My favorite category is "Statue Nudity". Yep if there's a statue of a naked person in a movie, it gets a negative point.
I think that is in honor of John Ashcroft and The Spirit Of Justice.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | November 23, 2008 10:10 PM
Further strong evidence in favor of Poe's law: that is to say, it just isn't possible to tell.
Unless the owner of the site tells us. And if the owner of the site tells us it's for real, we still won't know. Bummer.
I'm voting "satire", though.
Posted by: RickrOll | November 23, 2008 10:52 PM
to be fair to these guys, Bugs Bunny was a crossdresser, and most kids shoes now promote witchcarft and such intolerable blasphemies lol. Evolution was a main staple of Pokemon lol. Aw, but Star Wars was considered evil for real when it came out as well - good witches vs. bad witches lol; don't watch or you'll burn in hell! Hey wait, what about Harry Potter, also attacked simply because it uses a completely inaccurate form of witchcraft as a concept base? Hmm, ok, so popular=evil. okay, i get it now...
Anime, if they wanted to attack that, yeah. definately. Ever hear of Bible Black? Yeah lol, look it up.
Poe or not, TV is a place where christianity is ever more so becoming a domain of idealists; christian values are a punch line, this much is true. Some of them ought to be.
Posted by: Jello | November 23, 2008 11:16 PM
And all this time I thought that being 25 and still watching cartoon meant I was immature. Good to know I was actually subconsciously destroying Christianity.
Posted by: Jeanette | November 23, 2008 11:39 PM
You had me going for about a minute, PZ. Hilarious satire.
It's quieter than usual on here; everyone must be out getting it on with the bees.
Posted by: RickrOll | November 23, 2008 11:55 PM
bee sex is very time consuming, there are so many to satisfy. And you have to be careful not to drown them, lol (eeew, gross lol).
Whether it is satire or not Jello, you are subconsciously destroying Christianity by watching Cartoons (Especially some more interesting ones that i know of lol.) and telivision in general. Just seeing it in hyperbole is worth the giggles, that's all.
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | November 24, 2008 12:26 AM
John, #85
My cognitive dissonance meter just threw up.
Posted by: Wowbagger | November 24, 2008 12:33 AM
Alan Kellogg wrote:
Maybe if you didn't insist on feeding it so much you wouldn't have this problem.
Posted by: RickrOll | November 24, 2008 12:38 AM
alan, he's right. Christian Science, Eastern Orthodox, Calvanist, et all. "Reality is an illusion"; "Jesus is not a sacrifice, cannot take our sins away"; "There is no free will," respectively
Posted by: Nadia | November 24, 2008 2:35 AM
Christians Against Cartoons... The acronym would be CAC.
That's Gaelic for sh*t.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | November 24, 2008 2:51 AM
I've just discovered that Beaujolais Nouveau really burns the inside of the nasal passages...
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | November 24, 2008 5:00 AM
wowbagger, #136
Phrases such as "reasonable analogues" in conjunction with "whacko Christian belief" seem to trigger the poor thing's gag reflex.
Posted by: Wowbagger | November 24, 2008 5:39 AM
I'm not sure I get you here, Alan - are you implying that there aren't a wide range of Christian beliefs, some of which could reasonably be described as 'whacko'? And that we couldn't have a stab and thinking some up that someone already hasn't claimed?
Posted by: Patrick | November 24, 2008 6:55 AM
If you can't go to cartoons for your fix of communist satanic pagan talking goats, where do you go?
Posted by: Masks of Eris | November 24, 2008 7:02 AM
Bulgaria?Posted by: Masks of Eris | November 24, 2008 7:10 AM
(And I hasten to point out that #143 was a joke. I have no idea about the actual availability of goats of any kind in Bulgaria.)
Posted by: Andrew | November 24, 2008 8:07 AM
Rob Jupp @ 115:
Whilst I agree with the general consensus on this thread that it is a parody, you should be very careful saying "noone could be that stupid". It doesn't matter what provokes that statement, it's wrong.
Posted by: CrypticLife | November 24, 2008 9:52 AM
Okay -- I'm pretty sure most Christians think it's just fine to have imaginary friends, and if they alienate white trash they're going to ruin their congragation base.
Posted by: Neil B | November 24, 2008 9:58 AM
Note this other form of "Poe's Law" (and not per being real and not a satire, as reversed common PL) from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poe%27s+law. It could appear around and cause confusion:
2. poe's law
"Poe's Law" is a Christian theological principle that states: "Elements of the Gospel speak to different levels of spiritual concern in different cultures at different times." It is taught to modern evangelists as a way to better target the message of the Gospel to different audiences for maximum salvific efficacy. The law was named after theologian Dr. Harry Lee Poe, a cousin of Edgar Allan Poe, who promoted the concept in his book "The Gospel and Its Meaning: A Theology for Evangelism and Church Growth."
According to Poe's Law, we should emphasize the radical aspect of Jesus in order to appeal to today's spirited youths.
I like the part of "radical aspect of Jesus" if meant in the political type sense. All that liberal stuff about forgiveness, peace, giving up your treasure to the poor, etc, the real Christianity as expressed in this cute Onion thread:
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/im_not_one_of_those_love_thy
Posted by: No One Of Consequence | November 24, 2008 10:24 AM
I wrote a satirical post about Christians boycotting Sponge Bob back in 2003.
I hate it when reality out-crazies satire.
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | November 24, 2008 11:24 AM
Wowbagger, #141
No, more like reasonable analogues to whacko Christian beliefs.
Then again, I have a talent for making connections others don't. :)
Posted by: Sven DIMilo | November 24, 2008 11:36 AM
RickrOll:
I doubt you are laughing out loud as often as you claim to be.
Posted by: Owen | November 24, 2008 11:38 AM
Urban Dictionary definition #2 is itself a Poe. Delightfully meta...
Posted by: ndt | November 24, 2008 8:49 PM
Posted by: Seiberwing | November 23, 2008 9:49 AM
Admittedly, Adult Swim isn't the most family-friendly of shows.
Which is why they put "adult" in the name and start it at 10 PM Central time.
Posted by: RickrOll | November 24, 2008 9:26 PM
sven, you're right. Too much lol sauce (*chortles* {see, doesn't have the same "zip" to it, the same ease of information transfer. But perhaps it's a little too easy to say. hmmm. possible substitutes?})
- Megas XLR (Cartoon Network is at it again with this one, teaches kids that it's "ok" to be white trash)
"Okay -- I'm pretty sure most Christians think it's just fine to have imaginary friends, and if they alienate white trash they're going to ruin their congragation base."
Naw, only New Jersey white trash. awesome show by the way.
Posted by: Nerdcore Steve | November 24, 2008 9:55 PM
I remember this silliness very clearly when I was a kid. It seemed anything that was fun was bad. He-man and care bears had magic and allusions to terrible "pagan" beliefs like Buddhism. (It doesn't have to make sense). Batman and Transformers were too violent too be compatible with true christian values. Etc.
It's the same silliness that opposes Harry Potter and Dungeons and Dragons.
Posted by: RickrOll | November 25, 2008 12:04 AM
The thing about D&D is that it also provides a very poignant example of how wrong IDiots are. After all, why not exist in a world with all these fantastic Cryptozoological entities, and the Prevalance of a different energy source (mana or magic)? The fact that us humans can envision more interesting worlds than our own on a daily basis belies the absurdidty of thier pretentios claims
Posted by: FrodoSaves | November 25, 2008 6:52 AM
Well, to be fair, some cartoons are anti-Christian. For example, there's one on my blog of Jesus being hit over the head with a 2x4 to stall the Rapture.
Posted by: Rick R | November 25, 2008 7:43 AM
#48- "Help, teh gay! Itz contagious! And itz commin tru my tee vee!"
I just KNEW "The Ring" had gay overtones. The bad girl comes through your teevee and fills your head with "filth". With predictably deadly results.
Or is she a metaphor for televangelists?
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | November 25, 2008 9:47 AM
If cartoons are teh ebil, what does that say about Jack Chick?
Posted by: graham | November 25, 2008 12:12 PM
http://jfcshow.com
Posted by: outeast | November 27, 2008 7:13 AM
I really, really hope PZ was joking when he said this looked serious...
Posted by: Magistra Ygraine | November 27, 2008 11:26 AM
I wish that the page was more recent and that I knew it was being read by Christians.
I think they might be surprised that a member of the clergy of the Church of Satan is in agreement with their established bottom line that these cartoons are against my religion (although they may identify them as Satanic, I'd identify them as anti-Satanic---the end result is the same) , and damaging to children.
Can you imagine the look on their self-righteous faces were they informed that they were being supported by the Satanic Mommy of Five?
I wonder if that would make them take it down, or at the least, re-assess their position?
Y~
www.churchofsatan.com
http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/