…and this is a 
Oy, it's War on Christmas time again
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: November 12, 2008 9:18 AM, by PZ Myers
Fresh off the British Humanist Associations's successful bus campaign, the American Humanist Association has fired up its own set of big signs on buses in the Washington DC area. Their message is "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake".
Of course, CNN considers this another salvo in the War on Christmas. Silly news organization. Didn't you get the word? The war on Christmas is over. We won. It's a secular holiday, atheists can celebrate it any way they want, Christians can continue to pretend it's baby Jesus' birthday, and everyone has the freedom to interpret the meaning of the day in whatever way they choose. The freethinkers of America are victorious.
The only people left fighting it are desperate holdouts who look sad and comical when the emerge from the jungles of their own making. Like the American Patriarchy Association.
In mid-October, the American Family Association started selling buttons that say "It's OK to say Merry Christmas." The humanists' entry into the marketplace of ideas did not impress AFA president Tim Wildmon.
"It's a stupid ad," he said. "How do we define 'good' if we don't believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what's good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world."
Guess what, Tim? It is OK to say "Merry Christmas". Even I have been known to say it. Go ahead, have a good time with the greeting, although it does rather rip the spirit out of it if you say it through clenched teeth with furrowed brow, looking like you're daring everyone to object so you can punch them in the throat. It's also OK to say "Happy Solstice," "Season's Greetings," "Happy Holidays," and "Merry Cephalopodmas," whatever feels right to you.
But I'm sorry, this Biblical god fellow is not a very good source for goodness. If we went by that definition, Christmas would be a time when we'd slaughter Amelekites, get drunk and have sex with daughters, stone gay people, and treat molluscs as abominations. None of those things sound very merry to me. Wouldn't there be a better source for goodness that doesn't rely on archaic xenophobia and delusion from bad old books? How about empathy and the general principle that we should do to others what we would like them to do for us? Atheists can follow that one, and they don't believe in god at all.
Comments
Posted by: funda62 | November 12, 2008 9:27 AM
Well at least we wouldn't be eating the molluscs!
I think the bus campaign rocks and is an even better message than the one in London. Going to DC soon and will try to get pictures.
Posted by: Michelle | November 12, 2008 9:29 AM
Yay for secular Christmas! I love christmas time... When I'm not attacked with it left and right in the middle of fucking NOVEMBER or even before HALLOWEEN. Wait until december for the damn decorations, assholes!!!
...ahem.
The problem is that them folks don't know their bible. God is no source of morality. He's a douchebag, a murderer, a saddistic freak. He's a dictator. If that's a loving, good god... I want a divorce.
I hate hwne they think that you can't be moral if you don't believe in god. It's sorta scary too. Does that mean they're going to rape me if I prove god doesn't exist since they will be no afterlife consequences?
...Which brings me to the bible again... The frickin' rape rules are ridiculous. I'm gonna have to marry that guy if he rapes me?! God IS an asshole.
Posted by: Greg | November 12, 2008 9:29 AM
I know it's a commonly shared sentiment, but the fact that there are large groups of people who tell us they have no morality of their own and require it to be provided from an outside source, is terrifying.
Posted by: Bart Mitchell | November 12, 2008 9:29 AM
Im planning my normal year of using the phrase liberally throughout the season, with one exception. On the anniversary of Darwins 150's year of Origin, I went around telling everyone 'Happy Darwin Day'. If anyone asked why, I told them, if they didn't ask, I just walked on.
One of my suppliers asked. I told him is was the 150th anniversary. His response was '150 years of a STUPID theory'. I was a bit taken aback. Anyways, as I'm sure to get a 'Merry Christmas' from him this year, I'm working up a quick retort. "jesus was a myth!" or "Christ? Do you believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too?"
Any other quick returns you can think of?
Posted by: Lynnai | November 12, 2008 9:29 AM
Have pity on the molluscs!
Posted by: Prof MTH | November 12, 2008 9:30 AM
I prefer to say:
"Happy Chris-Han-Kwana-Rama-Solsti-Vus"
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 12, 2008 9:30 AM
"Be good for goodness sake"
Wall of Sound win.
Posted by: Michelle | November 12, 2008 9:32 AM
@Bart Mitchell: Maybe... Happy 4,5 billioneth?
Posted by: DLC | November 12, 2008 9:36 AM
Oh blast. this time of year is annoying and depressing enough without having to listen to people blather about "War on Christmas". Have the day off on the 25th and get over yourselves. Call me when something worth noticing happens.
Posted by: michael Fonda | November 12, 2008 9:40 AM
I have found that an excellent way to get a cheap laugh is to wish people "Happy appropriate holiday." Even fundies will smile at that one.
Posted by: GK4 | November 12, 2008 9:40 AM
I understand why many atheists (etcetera) say that the current December 25 holiday is very secular. But the name is still a reference to a church ritual! The Christians can keep it, and I will (in December) instead wish people a "Happy Crimble".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW6nZyJSERw
Posted by: Sidheag | November 12, 2008 9:40 AM
Happy to hear that the US will have something like this, but "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake" is a pretty terribly slogan, isn't it? Talk about ponderous.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 9:43 AM
I kind of like it.
Posted by: Deepsix | November 12, 2008 9:44 AM
Finally! I've been waiting all year to try out my new flame-thrower. "Fire-resistant Christmas trees" my ass.
I think we call all agree, there's nothing more we atheist hate more than family, food, and free gifts.
Posted by: Theron | November 12, 2008 9:48 AM
It's the authoritarian mindset. Evil come from violating rules, and rules must have a rulemaker. That rulemaker, in order not to be universal, must come from outside humanity -- therefore God. The more liberal mindset, I believe, holds that evil come from violating each other. You don't need some outside entity to work out a moral system based on that idea.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 12, 2008 9:48 AM
Sidheag. NOO It's frikkin' awesome! It's a line from "Santa Claus is Coming to Town"; who doesn't love that song. And it's also the perfect "up yours" to claims that we need God for morality.
Posted by: Grumpy Mr. Gruff | November 12, 2008 9:49 AM
Merry Cephalopodmas sounds like something celebrated at the Church of Dagon in H.P. Lovecraft's Innsmouth.
"Have yourself a merry little Ceph'l'mas,
On that darkest night
From now on,
the Old Ones will call forth the blight..."
I'm done geeking out, honest.
Posted by: Michelle | November 12, 2008 9:49 AM
@Sidheag: You think so? I thought it was pretty clever and sharp. I always loved that line anyway.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 12, 2008 9:50 AM
me@16: Or something similar with grammar.
Posted by: HumanisticJones | November 12, 2008 9:50 AM
I tend to like Festivus myself. Nothing quite like a good airing of grievances followed by the feats of strength. Always pick a scrawny person to have to wrestle you to the floor. It makes the party last longer.
Posted by: Jeanette | November 12, 2008 9:50 AM
Yay! War on Christmas is on the way! War on Christmas is one of my favorite holidays.
But it does seem to drag on forever nowadays. I remember when I was younger, the War on Christmas didn't start until after Thanksgiving. Anymore, the War on Christmas hype starts the moment Halloween is past.
And the War on Christmas has become so commercial these days. It's like people don't even recognize the sacredness of the occasion.
But the worst of it is those politically correct types who aren't even willing to say the words, "Merry War on Christmas." Don't they realize that those who claim a holiday as their own are entitled to demand that everyone else observe it in the same way?
Posted by: mike | November 12, 2008 9:50 AM
I'm so angry, I could punch a mollusk in the throat!
Posted by: Josh West | November 12, 2008 9:51 AM
I'll be celebrating agnostica again this year.
http://www.agnostica.com/
Posted by: Bart Mitchell | November 12, 2008 9:51 AM
Ohh, I had an idea after I posted at #4.
My good by phrase is 'Ciao dios.' which is Goodbye God, in Italian and Spanish respectively. Most people never catch it, its just a cute phrase.
I think this year, Im going to use 'Merry Christmyth'
Then again, everyone is just going to think I have a lisp.
Posted by: J-Dog | November 12, 2008 9:53 AM
Ah Yes! My FAVORITE time of year! I love telling people off for saying "Merry Christmas"! From a simple "No, thank you, to the more aggressive F^^k off and die Christian Scum, I like to vary it.
It puts me in the proper spirit, and I always consider that they may then pass on my disdain for their stupidity to Bill O The Clown Himself.
Ho! Ho! Ho!
Posted by: Ouchimoo | November 12, 2008 9:56 AM
Pffftt Good ole'CNN. First they show a story about an atheist family that was getting persecuted in their community. Then they mock said atheist. Then they try to make amends by having Richard Dawkins on. Then they throw Richards interview under the bus to cover 3 f#cking weeks of Ana Nichole Smith. And through it all they still can't stop crying "OMGODS THEY'RE STEALING OUR HOLIDAYS!! They're EVIL!!!"
Christmas, like Halloween and Easter, is commercial holidays anyways. It's all about the sales. One of the big reasons why I don't like Xmas is because it's not really about getting together with family anymore. It's now just a mad rush of buying useless crap to try and appease people and having to listen to crappy xmas music from the First of Nov to the end of Dec.
Posted by: Greg | November 12, 2008 9:57 AM
@Bart Mitchell, #24
Well, that depends on if you pronounce it Christ-myth or Chrithst-myth. The former would likely get you stranger looks.
I may have to borrow the spanish, though. :)
Posted by: Carlie | November 12, 2008 9:58 AM
Well, according to this handy list of winter festivals in Wikipedia, you could wish Xtians a Happy Feast of the Circumcision, and it would still be their own religion so they couldn't object.
Posted by: Ric | November 12, 2008 9:59 AM
Getting drunk and having sex with somebody's daughter sounds good to me. :)
Posted by: Interrobang | November 12, 2008 10:00 AM
The War on Christmas stuff doesn't get much traction here in Soviet Canuckistan, I think probably because of our more generally apathetic culture. I've been going around for years wishing people a "Happy Yule," and even the Salvation Army mendicants don't bat an eyelash. It's slightly disappointing. I think I could have some fun with BillO; I suspect I'd wind up counting how many veins I could get to pop out of his forehead.
Posted by: Carlie | November 12, 2008 10:01 AM
I think this year, Im going to use 'Merry Christmyth'
Make sure you use a good Igor hunch and limp while you do it.
Posted by: E | November 12, 2008 10:01 AM
I content myself with wishing my friends and neighbours a
Salubrious Solstice, and a Perfectly Peachy Perihelion.
Posted by: Sastra | November 12, 2008 10:02 AM
GK4 #11 wrote:
So what? We use the word "Easter" without making explicit reference to the goddess Estre, we don't care about the technical definition of "Halloween," and any use of the word "saint" in "St. Valentine's Day" is purely ceremonial. Christianity is part of our historical, aesthetic, and cultural past, same as many other no-longer-current beliefs and forms. A pre-existing holiday based on secular values picked some name up along the way, and it stuck. Ok.
So, ironically, the REAL "war on Christmas" is not substituting "happy holidays" or some other expression for the word "Christmas." It's using the word "Christmas" over and over again, without any religious connotations. Take it away from the Christians. That's their fear. Saying "Merry Christmas" is worthless if people are not "keeping the Christ in Christmas." I grew up in a freethought household that celebrated Christmas as a time of good will, cheer, and charity -- and no big deal made about the Baby Jesus story. It was just one more item in the celebration, next to Frosty and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.
As for the "you need God to be moral," Christians constantly play metaphysical hopscotch on that. What does it mean?
1.) God is the source of goodness in the world, which can be recognized whether you know where it ultimately came from or not.
2.) God is the reference for what is good; you can't tell if an action is right or wrong unless you check with the correct holy text.
3.) God is the motivation to be good; doing good or evil to others is ultimately based only on an exterior reward and punishment system.
Each one of these can be attacked and dismantled. That's why they keep skipping from one to the other. Refute #3 by explaining why virtue has intrinsic value? Yes, but where does it come from? Give an evolutionary explanation for the basic human moral sense? Oh, but how do you know which group is correct on the details (#2)? And so on and so forth...
Posted by: dNorrisM | November 12, 2008 10:05 AM
Very PC poem here ;-)
'Twas the night before Solstice...
Posted by: Britomart | November 12, 2008 10:06 AM
Bart my favorite response to "I will pray for you" is I will dance naked under the oaks next full moon for you.
Feel free to modify it depending on the climate where you are. I used to live on Cape Cod with a high fence and a lovely garden full of oaks...
I find it doesn't seem to have occurred to a lot of people who mindlessly wish everyone a Merry Christmas that not everyone is celebrating that. Last December I responded "Happy solstice" to a grocery clerk and the woman in front of me turned and wished her a happy Hanukkah and the woman in back of me had a headscarf. We had a conversation about it and I think she ended up persuaded that Happy Holidays was far more appropriate and a real statement of good wishes, whereas Merry Christmas excludes a lot of customers that her boss might not wish to offend.
Posted by: Ouchimoo | November 12, 2008 10:08 AM
OOOoo I just thought of a great idea for a poster:
Picture of Santa. . doing Santa stuff with big letters above him saying:
Santa is a humanist!
LooOOooLS
Posted by: JM | November 12, 2008 10:12 AM
I personally think that these bus ads are a bit too much. The will likely be met with knee-jerk reactions of disgust.
In my experience, one does not just go from a God fearing believer to an atheist. They start by questing certain aspects of their faith. Then they say things like 'I believe in God, but I don't follow any organized religion". Then they say things like I believe God and the universe are the same, and I am a spiritual person. Then the finally come to the conclusion that the old God they once knew, was just an idea, and they finally accept being an atheist.
God is the last thing to go. I think we should be starting smaller. How about:
"You can have God, without all these crazy religious people"
"Save me lord, from your followers"
Then move onto...
"Be spiritual, not religious. Follow the enlightenment."
Then finally...
"Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake".
Posted by: Dunc | November 12, 2008 10:16 AM
And how do you tell God from Satan (or a false prophet from a true prophet) if you don't know what "good" is? "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
Also, isn't there something in Genesis about us getting kicked out of Eden for eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
False prophet! Stone him!
Posted by: Kobra | November 12, 2008 10:27 AM
A major source of irritation for me is when people protest against the word "Xmas." Roland Martin wrote a piece last year that I criticized to hell. http://tinyurl.com/5um5un
Attention butthurt Christians: The X in Xmas stands for The letters Chi Rho in Greek-- which is short for Christ.
Why are nationally syndicated columnists bitching about something that doesn't even remove the cosmic Jewish zombie from the name?
Ranting aside, my family celebrates Christmas out of tradition rather than religion. No nativity scenes or any of that crap-- just gift-giving, feasting, and stocking up on liquor for New Year's Eve. :P
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 10:31 AM
Same here but we do put up a tree.
My mother still goes ape shit with Santa stuff, but no Jesus stuff thankfully. My nieces and nephews love it.
Posted by: JStein | November 12, 2008 10:33 AM
Hey, with the Jewish family I still celebrate Hannukah. Not in the religious way (my dad's secular too, so it's never really been that religious), but we have fun.
People like this make me laugh.
Posted by: Matt Heath | November 12, 2008 10:35 AM
Or for that matter, "Why is good to obey God?". The usual reply is "That is what good means" which is: a) factually inaccurate (just look at the word's history and usage) and b) exactly what my answer would be to "How do you know it is wrong to hurt people without God?".It's a funny argument, the argument from morality.
Posted by: Hank Fox | November 12, 2008 10:36 AM
JM #37: "I personally think that these bus ads are a bit too much."
JM, it's not all about Christians. Mainly, I think the campaign is to reach people who ALREADY have doubts, or already know they're atheists/agnostics, but just need to know that they're not alone and it's okay to come out of the closet.
As for me, I'm waiting for Bill-O or other wingnut conservative Christian to blame this on Barack Obama.
Three ... two ... one ...
Posted by: raven | November 12, 2008 10:37 AM
The War on Halloween has fizzled out the last few years too. The fundie morons have lost the will to stand up and gibber about how Halloween is....well whatever nonsensical idea it is that they claim.
The War on The War on Xmas seems to be going the same way. After a while listening to wingnuts babble gets boring. People stopped paying attention to Bush years ago, they just lost interest.
The fundies will have to find something else to irritate and amuse the general population. Maybe they can declare war on the Easter Bunny, who isn't mentioned a whole lot in the bible.
Posted by: Greg R. | November 12, 2008 10:40 AM
@Bart Mitchell, #4
You could just smile and say it's your favorite made up holiday.
@HumanisticJones, #20
I like Festivus, too. "A Festivus for the rest of us!"
Posted by: mike | November 12, 2008 10:41 AM
Don't forget the Aussies!
They are also planning bus advertisments...
http://www.meetup.com/sydneyatheists/messages/boards/thread/5706263
Posted by: Brad D | November 12, 2008 10:42 AM
There are always a few billboards around here (San Diego) that spring up about this time with this slogan: "Jesus is the reason for the season."
It would be nice to rent a billboard near each of these explaining that the earth's tilted rotational axis is the reason for all seasons.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 10:43 AM
I'm gearing up for the War on National Frozen Food day.
Following that, the War on Hug your Cat Day
Seriously.
Posted by: Ricahrd Eis | November 12, 2008 10:45 AM
I wish they would put these bus messages to the vote before using them. I'm sure we can get something punchier than the second sentence. It sounds like something my mother would say when i was younger for goodness sake.
Also the main reason for believing in a god is not morality, thats just an excuse IMHO.
Posted by: Sastra | November 12, 2008 10:46 AM
JM #37 wrote:
I think you're right about the gradual progression from faith to nonbelief, but wrong about the value of the 'extreme' bus ads. One of the reasons that even moderate and liberal theists scorn atheists is an underlying cultural consensus that belief in God is ubiquitous, spirituality signals depth of character, and faith is a virtuous thing to have. And whatever you do, don't tell anyone their supernatural beliefs are wrong. Belief in belief itself, is sacrosanct.
The regular insistence coming from the religious that atheists will be respected "only as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on others" is, I suspect, a self-serving load of bull designed to protect beliefs from open criticism by granting them sacred status. The "harmony" among religious believers -- I won't attack your beliefs as long as you don't attack mine -- comes with the price that atheists will be marginalized out of the mainstream. Expressions of one's religious beliefs are not seen as attacks on other religious beliefs -- unless you're an atheist. Do you view "Jesus Is The Reason for the Season" ads on buses as, not just wrong, but 'a bit too much?' Does the general public? Why the special rules for nonbelief?
As atheists, we're in a double bind -- damned if we speak out, and damned if we don't. The general consensus of the culture is that "atheism makes no sense." People can't figure out how anyone could not believe in some sort of God. It's extreme, loony, fruitloops -- but the religious will "tolerate" it as long as atheists keep their mouths shut, say nothing about why they don't believe in God, try to pass as 'straight,' and stay firmly out of the way.
The "look at me, I'm a nice quiet atheist who would never try to talk anyone out of believing in God just pretend we're not here" hasn't worked very well. I like the idea of the bus ads. A bit tacky? Maybe. But it's a step towards public recognition. It's a pretty neutral message, really. In order to call the ads "hostile" and "extreme" folks are going to have to acknowledge, at some level, that it's not the WAY we're coming out that's the problem: it's that we're coming out at all. Atheism itself is seen as aggressive.
They want it to be unthinkable. You can't start questioning faith itself if being an atheist is unthinkable.
Posted by: Sigmund | November 12, 2008 10:50 AM
"A 23 degree axial tilt of the Earth is the reason for the season - Thank Goodness for Science!"
Posted by: eric | November 12, 2008 10:51 AM
hmmm...minor quibble with the post: Cephalopodomas rolls off the tongue much easier than Cephalopodmas.
Posted by: spyderkl | November 12, 2008 10:52 AM
I have to say, I like these ads better than the ones on UK buses. It just feels like a slightly lighter touch to me.
Since it's already well-established that the Judaeo-Christian-Muslim God is a rip-roaring a**hole, I'd think you could come up with far better moral models.
Sastra/#33:
I love that! Mind if we steal that for this year? Usually the phrase we (as in everybody at our house) use is, "Thanks! You, too!"
Posted by: Kobra | November 12, 2008 10:53 AM
@47:
I support this idea.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | November 12, 2008 10:54 AM
Oh damn! What're we gonna do, honey? Wal-Mart is all out of Amelekites!
Posted by: Sarcastro | November 12, 2008 10:57 AM
If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world.
Going to be? I take it the Spanish Inquisition and the Albigensian Crusade were perfectly sane.
Meh. Happy Decemberween everybody!
Posted by: Ranson | November 12, 2008 11:07 AM
I have yet to convince my son that setting a trap in the fireplace is a good idea. I think it's because my wife opposes me in the matter, (but I think she fails to see how it can work for the Santa phenomenon, especially with a remote trigger).
Such is my war on Christmas. Take out the big man, and the whole system comes tumbling down. That, and we all know how it works when you capture a magical being. Of course, if it turns out to be just some old Eastern European priest, I'm going to be pissed.
Posted by: Fred Mounts | November 12, 2008 11:07 AM
Sastra #50 wrote:
I was watching Hardball yesterday evening, and one of the talking heads (not the band, though I am listening to the band right now - Papa Legba is the track) mentioned that Sarah Palin is a person of faith. An exasperated Chris Matthews replied: "Who isn't?!"
I already gave up on the no-talent ass clowns at CNN. Does MSNBC have to go next? At least Matthews may.
Posted by: Kobra | November 12, 2008 11:09 AM
@57: Are you referring to a pedopriest dressed as Santa trying to break into your home to rape your son? I'd be pissed too.
Posted by: tim rowledge | November 12, 2008 11:10 AM
Happy Newtonmass!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
Posted by: Prof MTH | November 12, 2008 11:10 AM
I put up a Krampus tree every year. It is red and has homemade Krampus ornaments.
My spouse and I also put up a solstice tree which is usually blue, purple, and white (very Jewish colors) decorated with family memorabilia.
Posted by: chancelikely | November 12, 2008 11:12 AM
That does it.
I'm going to email Bill O'Reilly and wish him a Merry War On Christmas.
I know War on Christmas is his favorite time of year.
Posted by: Dirty Hairy | November 12, 2008 11:14 AM
"...Christmas would be a time when we'd slaughter Amelekites, get drunk and have sex with daughters, stone gay people, and treat molluscs as abominations."
Where do I sign up???
Posted by: Paul Lundgren | November 12, 2008 11:15 AM
Dr. Myers, I have to take you to task for your discrimination. In your list of acceptable seasons greetings, nowhere did you list "Spicy Spaghettimas!" in that list. I consider this an affront to Pastafarians everywhere, and demand an immediate apology. Or, at least, please pass the Parmesan.
kthxbai.
Posted by: Pim | November 12, 2008 11:16 AM
I'm envious of you Americans. We can't have a proper war-on-christmas because our word for christmas (kerstfeest) already took most of the 'Christus' out of it. And taking the Weihn out of Weihnachten or the No out of Noël also makes little sense for those other parts of Europe that don't speak English.
Posted by: SeanD. | November 12, 2008 11:18 AM
"Merry Fucking Christmas & Happy Fucking Holidays - Now will you shut the fuck up."
Best T-shirt EVAH!
Posted by: Ted H. | November 12, 2008 11:20 AM
My favorite irony is the way this alleged War on Christmas is supposed to take form. They insist that the Wal-Mart greeter, or whoever, say 'Merry Christmas' while they buy all their crap in a display of materialism.
40+ years ago the alleged problem with christmas was that the holiday became too commercial as in 'A Charlie Brown Christmas'. Apparently, Linus was wrong. Commercialism is not the problem, it's forgetting what became so commercial. Americans gotta have their crap.
How many of these 'Jesus is the reason for the season' losers actually go to church on christmas?
I'm also willing to guess that most of these people celebrate Thanksgiving in a completely secular way. It was a type of religious holiday at one time. I'm sure the original intent was that you're supposed to give thanks to invisible sky-daddy.
Posted by: Evolving Squid | November 12, 2008 11:20 AM
@mike (#22)
You mean, like this guy: http://www.squidzone.ca/UT/puchceph.jpg ? As I recall from the writeup, the mollusc won this encounter :)
That's taken from the book that PZ uses to get many of his Friday Cephalopods.
Posted by: GK4 | November 12, 2008 11:30 AM
Sastra #33 wrote:
"We use the word 'Easter' without making explicit reference to the goddess Estre, we don't care about the technical definition of 'Halloween,' and any use of the word "saint" in 'St. Valentine's Day' is purely ceremonial."
"Crimble" is a linguistic "corruption" of "Christ mass". The same process gave us the words "Easter", "Halloween", and "Valentines Day" (sometimes with an "m" for good measure). The roots of these new words acknowledge "our historical, aesthetic, and cultural past", as you put it, but the fact that the words have *changed* represents that the holidays and their meaning have also changed. The past is a source, but it's still past.
Besides, I like inducing cognitive dissonance in Christians by reminding them that this two-month-long commerce holiday is very different from the solemn two-hour religious ceremony from which it derives its name. This is my way of reminding them that they've already lost; everyone celebrates Crimble, and no one attends Christ mass.
If it weren't still November, I'd wish you a Happy Crimble, Sastra.
Posted by: Cliff | November 12, 2008 11:30 AM
@58 Fred Mounts
I saw that, too. Frankly I was a bit surprised, and a lot disappointed at his response. Who knew?
Posted by: ggab | November 12, 2008 11:30 AM
What ever happened to our great traditions?
Remembering the good old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McggLIYmnE
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | November 12, 2008 11:35 AM
"I'm so angry, I could punch a mollusk in the throat!"
I dare you.
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | November 12, 2008 11:38 AM
I actually have quite a few christmas/cephalopodmas verses floating around... But for this thread, I think perhaps this one:
An atheist Christmas
We'll all open presents, and cook a big dinner,
And share in traditions we learned long ago
But Christmas is different for this humble sinner,
No "birth of the saviour", just people we know.
It has nothing to do with a babe in a manger
Or kings being led by a star up above,
But rather in family, friend, and in stranger,
In kindnesses done for the people we love.
A spirit of hope, and a spirit of giving,
A promise of peace in a troubling day,
A chance to examine the way we are living--
The courage to say what we've wanted to say.
You don't need to think there's a god up above you
To want to be good to your fellows on Earth.
To give to your friends, and to tell them "I love you"
Has nothing to do with some son of god's birth.
For love, and for giving, we say "tis the season"
For caring, for kindness, for sharing good cheer
But why limit ourselves? I mean, what is the reason?
Why can't we be giving the rest of the year?
This Christmas, my wish for each sister and brother,
To you, and to everyone you may hold dear;
Remember, this Christmas, to love one another--
Not only this season, but all through the year!
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-chistmas.html
Posted by: Robert W | November 12, 2008 11:40 AM
One of your best posts yet, PZ. Thanks for putting this so well. Happy solstice!
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | November 12, 2008 11:41 AM
E @ # 33: ... a Perfectly Peachy Perihelion.
Uh, isn't perihelion around Jan. 22? Most of the people I know will still be celebrating the End of the Bush Error then...
Posted by: Tim | November 12, 2008 11:42 AM
Roman christians just took a pagan holiday and filed the serial #s off, the really intense fundies won't celebrate it. How about a different carol? http://www.cthuhulives.org/solsticecarol.html
Posted by: BobbyEarle | November 12, 2008 11:43 AM
Rats.
I got all zippered up for this year's installment of the War on Christmas, and now you tell me that WE WON???
I wonder if I can get a store credit for the flame-throwers, and death ray blasters I bought....
Wait, never mind. I can use them for the upcoming Assault on the Gnome Agenda.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 11:43 AM
Appropriate considering that fox news uses voodoo and magic as their sources.
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | November 12, 2008 11:46 AM
We have a damned good reason for waging a war on Christmas, in the future Santabot will be after us.
Preemptive strike!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 11:49 AM
Bah nevermind.
Reading fail.
Hardball not Hannity.
failly fail fail
Posted by: marcus | November 12, 2008 11:49 AM
Sir: I defy you to prove scientifically that molluscs are not abominations! Slimy little beady eyed creatures always hiding under their shells plotting the overthrow of decent god-creating mammals. They should all be steamed in their shells and eaten! Eaten I say!
Posted by: Josh | November 12, 2008 11:50 AM
Where do I donate so I can get these bus ads in Chicago too?
Posted by: Pete Rooke | November 12, 2008 11:52 AM
Bill O'Reilly has done a great job in the past of highlighting this issue, as well as the Catholic League.
It's symptomatic of societies in which people feel unable to culturally identify with anything - whether it be citizenship (am I American, what does that mean, why classify me in terms of arbitrary lines on a map), whether it be sexuality (why should marry someone of the opposite sex, is it because it's in my genes, surely that would be committing the naturalistic fallacy..), whether it be immigration and a subsequent lack of assimilation resulting in corporations, which drive Christmas as we know it, wanting to be inclusive and deciding that a "holiday season" inclusive of everyone would be more profitable.
Nary a thought is given to the ultimate sacrifice that Christmas celebrates, what this means to us and why this is so important. I'm all for exploiting the commercial activities if it spreads the message of Christianity. As it is I feel that committed Christians should consider forgoing present giving and "Thankgivingisize" Christmas returning it to a purely religious celebration with a emphasise on the nuclear family - without commercial pressures and the distractions this brings. On a positive note, at least Churches bulge around December.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 11:52 AM
I don't know if that was intentional or not, but
nice
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | November 12, 2008 11:53 AM
Ok, a new (old) one. I think you already know the tune:
And so this is Christmas
So back to the war--
It's time to remember
What Christmas is for
An so this is Christmas
Let's make a big fuss
Cos Christmas is only
For people like us.
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Unless you are godless
Unless you are queer.
And so this is Christmas
For people like me
For Christian believers
Good people, you see
And so Happy Christmas
It's so black and white
Don't say "Season's Greetings"
'less you're ready to fight
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Unless you are godless
Unless you are queer.
And so this is Christmas
So back to the war--
It's time to remember
What Christmas is for
An so this is Christmas
Let's make a big fuss
Cos Christmas is only
For people like us.
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Unless you are godless
Unless you are queer.
War is over when we win it
War is over then
Posted by: Liberal Atheist | November 12, 2008 11:53 AM
Merry Christmas is ok, of course, even if you can't possibly know which holiday the other person is celebrating, if any. But then "Happy Holidays" is ok too, even more so, since it's more inclusive. I am sure the Christians are logical enough and tolerant enough to understand that. ;)
Posted by: Mikayla | November 12, 2008 11:55 AM
Like I end up saying every year, I do say 'Merry Christmas'. Even as an atheist. It's just what I'm used to saying, as a cultural matter. The AFA needs to pull it's head out of its rear end.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | November 12, 2008 11:55 AM