Pharyngula

Ken Ham makes a few more bucks

The Secular Alliance of Indiana University took a field trip to Ken Ham’s Creation “Museum”…and they made a video!

Now nobody else needs to go. I suspect the nosh at the Waffle House at the end was the highlight of the expedition.

Comments

  1. #1 Jared
    December 10, 2008

    It really disturbs me that these things actually have the kind of business they do…

  2. #2 Nerd of Redhead
    December 10, 2008

    PZ, your spoiler gave the plot away! TSK TSK.

  3. #3 Glen Davidson
    December 10, 2008

    Well, the problem is that they didn’t go in with minds open to the possibility that life was designed. Or that things go up because they pertain to the aether, and down because they pertain to the earth.

    OK, my point is that they didn’t go in stupid. How do they ever expect to find god while having brains?

    Just trolling until Keith adds in his “thoughts.”

    Glen D
    http://tinyurl.com/6mb592

  4. #4 Gzalzi
    December 10, 2008

    Well, I’m sure it would be interesting to actually go there. Not that I would give them my money.

  5. #5 SC, OM
    December 10, 2008

    Thanks, SAIU!

    The Noah’s ark exhibit looks hilarious.

  6. #6 Glen Davidson
    December 10, 2008

    Sin causes the evolutionary adaptations of carnivores?

    It often appears that they don’t like evolutionary theory because it has such restrictions on change–it has to be slow and limited. They want it to be immediate, due to moral issues, and unrestricted. Sort of like “conversion” is supposed to be.

    Why else would Dumbski go off to a faith healer?

    Glen D
    http://tinyurl.com/6mb592

  7. #7 Parker
    December 10, 2008

    I went to college in IN for a while and am incredibly surprised at the amazing uh..free-thoughtness of it. This is incredible.
    Still, it amazes me how may people don’t think past the most superficial of presentations. Ball love this site!

  8. #8 Brownian, OM
    December 10, 2008

    OK, my point is that they didn’t go in stupid. How do they ever expect to find god while having brains?

    Yeah, for that you need to see a frozen waterfall, somehow. Suspecting that I have fewer brains than Collins but more than the maximum needed to buy Ham’s, er, ham, I eagerly await this coming Spring at which time I will find God in stream of slush and road gravel dripping into the sewer. (Allah better not show up in a potato before then, or God’s whole plan’ll be pooched.)

  9. #9 afterthought
    December 10, 2008

    The video is very nice. Like the soundtrack.
    The museum OTOH is just so sad – a monument to willful ignorance.

  10. #10 Kirk
    December 10, 2008

    So, I want to know why the second talking Noah dude has a “Mission Impossible Generic Bad Guy Russian Accent”. Any clues?

  11. #11 JohnnieCanuck
    December 10, 2008

    The Introduction to Logic book has me fascinated.

    Did a serious treatment of the subject get in by mistake or on purpose, or is that yet another get rich scheme by a god botherer?

  12. #12 I am so wise
    December 10, 2008

    What everyone is missing is how dangerous creationism is not only sciency subsets of history like evolutionary biology, geology, and astronomy but also the genuinely cool history as well. If the world was created in 4004 BC, well then you have to shift the invention of beer and glue forward about a 1,000 and then compressed everything from the dinosaurs to the modern day into 6,000 years without any archival, scientific, forensic, or much imaginary evidence what so ever.

  13. #13 Brendan White
    December 10, 2008

    How is it that they have so many females? Why doesn’t my secular/skeptical group have that many? Oh that’s right, because I’m in it.

  14. #14 Seiberwing
    December 10, 2008

    Those animatronics were just flat-out creepy there.

  15. #15 Eoban Binder
    December 10, 2008

    Hey folks,

    I’m the one who shot the video. Unfortunately there was even more stuff in the museum that didn’t even make the cut (or things I wasn’t allowed to film, like the pretty awful video about Jesus Christ, or the ‘dramatic reading’ of Genesis). Sadly there were also quite a few kids and Sunday school groups there. If anyone has an account on Digg, I hope you could vote it up here; I’d sure like for more people to see what this museum is like and come to the realisation that this stuff is threatening children’s science education:

    http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Inside_the_Creation_Museum_Not_for_the_faint_of_heart

  16. #16 AnthonyK
    December 10, 2008

    Anyone know how the anti-museum is doing? Is Satan, who’s apparently on our side, actually making these jerks suffer for their ignorance?
    There’s a good line in the vid:
    Girl to man: So, what happened to the dinosaurs after the flood?
    Man: I guess Jesus must have killed them all.
    Indeed.
    Man

  17. #17 Brownian, OM
    December 10, 2008

    Dugg.

    Good job!

  18. #18 Parsnip
    December 10, 2008

    I love the graphical illustration of “man’s reason” vs. “god’s word” as if it actually illustrates a point. They’re incredibly adept at making stuff up.

    Also, if carnivorism is a product of man’s fall, wouldn’t Christians strive for vegetarianism? I’ve never heard that perspective articulated by Christians. S’funny.

  19. #19 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 10, 2008

    Girl to man: So, what happened to the dinosaurs after the flood?
    Man: I guess Jesus must have killed them all.

    So Jesus is not only an asshole for killing the dinosaurs he’s a dummy.

    What was he planning on using as transportation with all his mounts killed off?

  20. #20 Holbach
    December 10, 2008

    Good freaking grief, I couldn’t even get a third of the way through the video before I felt like puking. We know what kind of mindless crap is in there, just as we know what is in a septic tank when we dig it open. And to think they have a sign on the highway marking the exit to this piece of mindless crap!

  21. #21 SamuelP
    December 10, 2008

    Bravo Eoban Binder and those in the SAIU…and PZ

    Thanks for doing this.

  22. #22 Zar
    December 10, 2008

    As a student of linguistics, I would joke about how the fundies would soon demonize the works of Saussure and other fine historical linguists in favor of a Babel-based Wrathful Dispersion Theory.

    But holy shit they actually did it!

  23. #23 Moses
    December 10, 2008

    That was so cool.

  24. #24 Brownian, OM
    December 10, 2008

    Good freaking grief, I couldn’t even get a third of the way through the video before I felt like puking. We know what kind of mindless crap is in there, just as we know what is in a septic tank when we dig it open. And to think they have a sign on the highway marking the exit to this piece of mindless crap!

    Well, wouldn’t you appreciate it if someone put up a sign letting you know you were near a septic system and probably shouldn’t dig?

  25. #25 Jadehawk
    December 10, 2008

    sooo…. lots of opinions, but not a single fact? not even a factoid? how surprising

    and I do wonder why all those non-carnivorous dinosaurs were designed to be carnivorous? I guess God already knew mankind would fuck it all up, and the whole Eden set-up was a massive case of “neener-neener, I made this cool place and you can’t have it”

    and if mankind is made in gods image, but is obviously flawed… then so is god (either he succeeded in making man in his image, and therefore man is like god, or man is flawed in ways that God is not, meaning God did NOT succeed in making man in his image, and is therefore flawed, himself)

  26. #26 bornagain77
    December 10, 2008

    Hell : A Warning to Atheists : Sodom & Gomorrah

    http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eef92723845f6aa9ac7c

  27. #27 ggab aka Cap'n Firepants I.S.
    December 10, 2008

    Bravo indeed.
    Better you than me I suppose.

  28. #28 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 10, 2008

    bornagain77

    um, no

  29. #29 Aaron Kinney
    December 10, 2008

    Woot!!!! Go IU!

  30. #30 Another Lost Soul
    December 10, 2008

    The heartbreaking thing is that little kids go to this museum hoping to actually learn. I know that my heart fractured when they were talking about the kid’s worksheet, and it instructed the child to find a picture of a monkey and say, “I’m not related to him.”

    The guy at the end, inside the waffle house, is correct: the Creation “Museum” is a nexus for incredible misinformation and counterproductive in the developments of science.

  31. #31 Feynmaniac
    December 10, 2008

    I thought the animatronics were actually pretty cool. Too bad they’re being used to misinform.

  32. #32 AdenB
    December 10, 2008

    Nice job SAIU! Thanks for taking one for the team!

    Hopefully the waffles made up for it?

  33. #33 ggab aka Cap'n Firepants
    December 10, 2008

    bornagain77
    That’s it! I felt it! I felt it inside!
    That’s the proof I’ve been waiting for my whole life.
    That was so brilliant that it won me over.
    I believe in God!
    Oh…wait…no it was just gas.
    Too much dairy I guess.
    Carry on.

  34. #34 Stina
    December 10, 2008

    This inspires me to have my SSA club make a video of their own. Great stuff.

  35. #35 Another Lost Soul
    December 10, 2008

    @bornagain77

    I’m not even going to waste my time. THIS video was depressing enough for me…

  36. #36 AnthonyK
    December 10, 2008

    bornagain, that is one dumn video.
    And yet, these morons seem intelligent. Such is the power of ignorance.

  37. #37 SC, OM
    December 10, 2008

    http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eef92723845f6aa9ac7c

    Hahaha! Thanks, man! Very, um, archeillogical!

    Charcoal and ‘Sulfer’! Hahaha!

  38. #38 Another Lost Soul
    December 10, 2008

    @ Feynmaniac #31

    I don’t know why, but the animatronic at 8:33 made me think of Yoda.

    Save your souls, Jesus does. Path of the devil, atheists follow. Lol ^_^

  39. #39 GodIsLoveIsHere
    December 10, 2008

    Hai Guys

  40. #40 negentropyeater
    December 10, 2008

    What I still find the most incredible is that this horrible propaganda instrument is allowed to be called a “museum”.

    Shouldn’t such term be protected ? I mean, are you allowed in the USA to call anything as you want, for instance a brainwashng operation a “university” ?

    Maybe it’s just an allergic reaction after seeing this film (Good job to Eoban Binder @15), bt is there really no way to alert the Government about this. I know that you have the “freedom of speech” laws, but certainly there must be some limitations to the quantity of lies and dishonest propaganda busnesses are allowed to take part in.

    Otherwise, it means as long as somebody has deep pockets (and this propaganda museum represents a significant investment), he can make up any stupid crackpot shit, market it as science, and brainwash the kids.

    Is there really no way to stop this from being marketed under false pretenses ?

  41. #41 Jaknelaps
    December 10, 2008

    Best Part: “No animals were harmed during the Flood.”

    (seen during end credits)

  42. #42 Zimriel
    December 10, 2008

    You’ve been noticed by the Lizard Kingdom. I do have to plug my trailer for Jesus Christ IS… The Dino Hunter.

    I’d totally watch that.

    (and no, I’m not blaspheming against Christ, just against morons)

  43. #43 mayhempix
    December 10, 2008

    My favorite parts were the animatronic girl who has the same glazed look in her eyes taht all true believers do and the story about the person who wondered what happened to all the dinosaurs on the ark and was told “I guess Jesus killed them.” ROTHFLMAO!

    I also noticed they offer a 2 day pass. What? No 7 day pass?

  44. #44 T. Bruce McNeely
    December 10, 2008

    As I’ve commented before, what a crap excuse for a museum. There are no actual specimens on display (except for a fish and a turtle) – just a bunch of signs and a few cheesy robots and dioramas.
    Anyway, thank you Eoban and the group. Amusing video, cool soundtrack and don’t miss the credits at the end!

  45. #45 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    The only way I would go there is if I could pay for my admission with Ray Comfort’s million dollar bill tracts.

    If I did go, either I would just go batshit insane, screaming at the top of my lungs “You Stupid Asswipes! How can you possibly accept such crap?”, and be escorted out by security, or my head would explode, and they would feed it to the K-9 guard dogs so they could get a taste of sinner for dinner.

  46. #46 Another Lost Soul
    December 10, 2008

    *Bows before Rev BigDumbChimp after reading #46*

  47. #47 IasonOuabache
    December 10, 2008

    Ah!! My fellow Hoosiers have done me proud!

  48. #48 Fitz
    December 10, 2008

    Mayhempix: I would think a 6 day pass would be more appropriate.

  49. #49 Richard Walker
    December 10, 2008

    Atheists just like to pretend there is no Creation Museum so they can’t be held accountable for shoplifting things out of the Creation Museum gift shop.

  50. #50 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    I would like to go into the museum, stand next to Ken Ham and say “I’m not related to him!”

  51. #51 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 10, 2008

    Me as Terran, one mate as Protoss and the other as Zerg dominated and obliterated the opposition.

    the constant intentional poe is BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING

  52. #52 mayhempix
    December 10, 2008

    Also those books… the one about the Grand Canyon…
    When I was at the Grand Canyon they were selling that creationist book in the National Park bookstore. There was this whole rack of creationist books, pamphlets and DVD propaganda. I complained but was told that the person in charge of National Parks under the Bush adminstration had given the OK and that they wouldn’t take any action to remove them.

  53. #53 mayhempix
    December 10, 2008

    Posted by: Fitz | December 10, 2008 9:47 PM
    “Mayhempix: I would think a 6 day pass would be more appropriate.”

    But don’t you get to rest on the 7th day?
    All of that stupidity is exhausting.

  54. #54 NewEnglandBob
    December 10, 2008

    Ken Ham’s Creation “Museum” must have the world’s biggest concentration of ignorant fucktards in the world.

    Its like a space-time warp where IQ drops by the minute into negative numbers.

  55. #55 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    definition of museum – A building, place, or institution devoted to the acquisition, conservation, study, exhibition, and educational interpretation of objects having scientific, historical, or artistic value.

    Nope, it is not a museum. I say lets start a lawsuit claiming false advertising. The name should be changed to “Ken Hams Silly Sin & Salvation Show”.

  56. #56 Alex
    December 10, 2008

    This is absolutely disturbing. I’ve not been long on human kind, and after watching this, the odds in my mind just went down. However, I’ve never been one to give up without a fight. Every last effort can help.

    Thank you PZ. Things like this must somehow galvanize the efforts of reason….at scale….effectively. Everybody, please find your secular charity or charities of choice, and donate….even $5. Anything. If you are capable of more and can organize and encite encourage dissension against the ignorance of the emotionally sedated, please contribute appropriately.

    I don’t mean to sound so dire, but these idiots used to only wield swords and axes. Things are different today. Weaponry has changed, and so has the means to control. We saw what Bush was about. With the new office, we have a chance to gain speed and momentum to our efforts.

    Reason has been spinning its wheels in deep sand the past 8 years, now it has the opportunity to apply traction to sticky asphalt. I think that it’s time to apply the accelerator.

  57. #57 mayhempix
    December 10, 2008

    Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 10, 2008 9:53 PM
    “U ARE ALL FAGS”

    Filtered or menthol?

  58. #58 Alex
    December 10, 2008

    U ARE ALL FAGS

    Is that an insult? No I’m not! What are you saying?! It makes me angry, but I love you man….I mean, not in that way, but, I thought you were one of us!

    ….I’m so confused

  59. #59 evolution schmevolution
    December 10, 2008

    AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

    Watch out Pharyngulans, Global Warming skeptics everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  60. #60 RBH
    December 10, 2008

    The highlight of the video was in the credits:

    The events pictured in this film are fictional. Any similarity to science, natural or social, is a major problem in the world.

    (At 12:02)

  61. #61 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    Aren’t they violating some kind of commandment for opening that vast abyss of analytical thinking seven days a week?

  62. #62 Holbach
    December 10, 2008

    Brownian, OM @ 24

    But of course. Why fall into it when a sign can alert you of the crap ahead. A lot better than coming upon it not knowing it was there, and thinking you stumbled into a rampant madhouse. What I would like to see above the highway sign, serving as a disclaimer, is “Alert: Mindless Crap Ahead; Not responsible for willful self-induced sepsis of the brain”. Might save a few unsuspecting rerasonable people.

  63. #63 RickrOll
    December 10, 2008

    “But of course. Why fall into it when a sign can alert you of the crap ahead. A lot better than coming upon it not knowing it was there, and thinking you stumbled into a rampant madhouse. What I would like to see above the highway sign, serving as a disclaimer, is “Alert: Mindless Crap Ahead; Not responsible for willful self-induced sepsis of the brain”. Might save a few unsuspecting rerasonable people.”- Holbach

    Agreed. Additionally, i think someone ought to simply blow up the fucking building when there is no one around, or break in and graffitti all over the place. Hell, maybe some of the Other non-biblical creationists of the world would be willing to do so!

  64. #64 Travis
    December 10, 2008

    Is some ass pretending to be the Rev. or have they lost their minds?

  65. #65 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 10, 2008

    My guess is that was Pharynguphat.

  66. #66 Isherwood
    December 10, 2008

    That was fantastic! Thank you, thank you to the group that made it. I, too, was disturbed by what I saw, and that after reading about it at Pharyngula for months.

    The video was high enough quality that I could actually go fullscreen and easily read the signs. Bravo for that.

    Wow. What else can I say that hasn’t already been? What a f’d up nation we are that with all our wealth and technology, this still thrives. Unbelievable.

  67. #67 Travis
    December 10, 2008

    Oh yes, I remember them. You are right. That does seem to have roughly the same level of intellectual discourse.

  68. #68 ishywood
    December 10, 2008

    #68, most people would say that about this blog.

  69. #69 Kimpatsu
    December 10, 2008

    I liked the scrolling titles at the end, which included:
    “No animals were harmed in the making of the flood” and
    “The museum is a work of fiction and no parallels with truth or science are intended or should be inferred”.
    Always get those movie disclaimers in!
    LOL

  70. #70 Alex
    December 10, 2008

    #62

    Good find.

    I still say that portraying non-scientific knowledge as scientific knowledge should be considered criminal and dangerous. Crossing the lines of charlatanism at the expense of lay people’s ideas about how to make safe and effective decisions that govern lives for profit is predatory and evil.

    It’s like selling someone aspiring to cure cancer in my opinion. The scientific method is proven and real. Any other method trying to claim hold on reality is not. Period. Prayer=Belief=fail. To try and prop up those miserable notions with an amusement park (with no dinosaur rides) called a museum should not be legally allowed. There is no science behind any of their content, only preaching.

    That should not be legally allowed.

  71. #71 afterthought
    December 10, 2008

    @ishywood

    #68, most people would say that about this blog.

    Only whack-a-loons and creationists, but I repeat myself.

  72. #72 Sarah
    December 10, 2008

    Well I’m glad to see there are a few sane people at my university…I could not have suffered through that myself though.

  73. #73 Alex
    December 10, 2008

    #72

    aspiring? FTW? = aspirin. Whoops.

  74. #74 David Utidjian
    December 10, 2008

    Cool!!

    Thank you SAIU.

    I hope some of the $10/month I send to the SSA helped pay for producing this video. If not… cool anyhow.

    -DU-

  75. #75 Jason A.
    December 10, 2008

    We have a local creation museum, not nearly as well funded as that one, but they claim to have the largest fossil collection in arkansas. I made a visit once, it’s one thing to hear the creationist arguments from individuals, but to see it all done up like that is pretty sickening. I remember a big wall sized mural explaining how carbon-14 dating gives crazy unrealistic dates when applied to things less than a few hundred years old or greater than a few ten thousand. So therefore you can’t use c-14 to date dino fossils. Well… yeah, that’s why we don’t use c-14 to date dinos.
    It was painted on a wall opposite a few dino bone exhibits, and they were careful not to say directly that scientists were doing it wrong, but the implication was pretty clear. It’s things like that which erase my doubt that maybe the high-profile creationists are just innocent fools. They’re very deliberately being misleading about the things they say.

  76. #76 coopsmom
    December 10, 2008

    My friend and I went to this museum last April- they were still finishing the landscaping and things inside were also unfinished in places. I went because I think it’s good to know your enemy and it was truly frightening.
    Because we went undercover (i.e. not as robotic drooling true believers)we felt a little out of place and as if we were being watched.
    As we were leaving- having looked at and listened to all the crap we could stand- my friend confessed her plan if we were grabbed by Security. She was going to point at me, scream “She’s a lesbian!” and run like hell figuring they would be horrified enough by my presence to allow her to escape. My plan was to point at her and yell “She’s divorced!” and similarly run for my life.
    Some of the photos I took that day are scarier than any Hollywood horror flick!

  77. #77 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    I, Imam Muhammad Bin Franklin, hereby officially declare a fatwa on the infidel Ken Ham and his heathen dinosaur building in the Satanic bluegrass State of Kentucky, USA.

    There is no mention of, or reverence to Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name) in his disrespectful assault on the One True Religion.

    An unrelenting Holy Jihad shall be loosed upon his land and people. His books shall be burned. His ark shall be sunk. His wall of graffiti shall be converted into a wall of respect for Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name). His tour guides shall be violated by animitronic figures and his turtle shall be placed upside down.

    The wrath of Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name) shall smite him.

    Jihadi volunteers are kindly to pick up application in the lobby. Please bring your own weapons of mass destruction. Glory to Allah! (Blessed Be His Holy Name) and beautiful virgins shall be your reward in paradise.

    /satire

  78. #78 Isherwood
    December 10, 2008

    Ishywood: How clever. And you made my point for me: The problem is “most people”.

  79. #79 KH
    December 10, 2008

    Thanks SAIU. How I wish that some students at the college where I teach would start a secular alliance group of some sort.

  80. #80 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    I, Imam Muhammad Bin Franklin, hereby officially declare a fatwa on the infidel Ken Ham and his heathen dinosaur building in the Satanic bluegrass State of Kentucky, USA.

    There is no mention of, or reverence to Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name) in his disrespectful assault on the One True Religion.

    An unrelenting Holy Jihad shall be loosed upon his land and people. His books shall be burned. His ark shall be sunk. His wall of graffiti shall be converted into a wall of respect for Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name). His tour guides shall be violated by animitronic figures and his turtle shall be placed upside down.

    The wrath of Allah (Blessed Be His Holy Name) shall smite him.

    Jihadi volunteers are kindly to pick up application in the lobby. Please bring your own weapons of mass destruction. Glory to Allah! (Blessed Be His Holy Name) and beautiful virgins shall be your reward in paradise.

    /satire

  81. #81 PZ Myers
    December 10, 2008

    Yes, that was the boring troll pharynguphat, who has now earned himself a plonking. He’s a morpher, though, so let me know when he shows up again, so I can axe his aliases.

  82. #82 tsg
    December 10, 2008

    Posted by: bornagain77 | December 10, 2008 9:13 PM [kill]?[hide comment]

    Hell : A Warning to Atheists : Sodom & Gomorrah

    The punishment for not believing in one thing is another thing you also don’t believe in.

    It’s at this point that I would normally ask, “will you never learn?”, but I think that question has been answered in a resounding “No!”

    But I can’t help trying: bornagain77, if you don’t believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, when you die you will be eternally tickled by His Noodly Appendage.

    So there!

  83. #83 LisaJ
    December 10, 2008

    That was a very well done video. But man, was it scary and disturbing. I’m feeling right now the exact sentiment that the one girl at the beginning projected: finding it absolutely hilarious, but then realizing that kids are being brainwashed by this stuff and then feeling angry. Just pathetic.

    No god = no parking and graffiti. Come on! That was pretty funny. Loved the ending credits too.

  84. #84 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 10, 2008

    I thought so.

  85. #85 Sarah
    December 10, 2008

    It’s great seeing all the comments, especially the support for our group! I’m the president of SAIU and started it in April 08. If anyone sees this and wants to get in touch please feel free to go to our website, http://saiu.org/, and email me. I love hearing from students, supporters, etc.

    Also, if you want tips on starting groups I just went through the process and have lots to share! Feel free to contact me!

    Last thing–if people have suggestions for REAL museums in the southern Indiana area that we could attend to actually learn something and ‘cleanse’ ourselves of our Petersburg experience, please let me know:)

  86. #86 John C. Randolph
    December 10, 2008

    You know PZ, I can’t help noticing that I hear far more about Ken Ham on Pharyngula than any other site I visit. Doesn’t this guy live for publicity? Wouldn’t you be doing more good for the cause of science by ignoring him and letting him fade into obscurity?

    -jcr

  87. #87 Jer
    December 10, 2008

    Dugg! Thanks for posting this!

  88. #88 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    Sarah-

    I think that your group should support and visit the Cincinnati Zoo for their courageous decision to terminate their cross-promotion with the Flintstone show.

  89. #89 RickrOll
    December 10, 2008

    jcr has a very good point PZ. You aren’t hurting him at all with your attacks. And i think that most people could easily recognize him for what we all know him to be. All it does is feed what is essentially, a village of trolls.

  90. #90 Benjamin Franklin
    December 10, 2008

    Wouldn’t you be doing more good for the cause of science by ignoring him and letting him fade into obscurity?

    If only he were fading into obscurity. Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands have already crossed the threshold of that tour de farce, and it should be vehemently and continually bashed until I can convince God to visit numerous plagues upon it.

  91. #91 ndt
    December 10, 2008

    I disagree with Rick and John. There are millions of Americans who would think Young Earth Creationism is silly if they’d ever hear of it, but they have no idea this kind of thing is going on in their country.

  92. #92 SC, OM
    December 10, 2008

    No one should forget that publicizing the planned cross-promotion with the zoo here played a big role in its eventual cancellation.

  93. #93 Rawley
    December 10, 2008

    #26: What the hell was that supposed to prove?

  94. #94 bluescat48
    December 10, 2008

    The “Museum” is even more insane than I thought.

  95. #95 Dr. P
    December 10, 2008

    I wish I had known about that group when I was there (or maybe it wasn’t formed yet 10 years ago).

    Makes me proud of my alma mater *sniff*

  96. #96 RickrOll
    December 10, 2008

    Ummmm, if i’d ever hear of it hmmm? I went to a private xian high school (oooh, the stupidity, it burns! Thankfully, hypocrisy makes a nice balm for that). I know the stupid of which i speak. I left there with a great pile of talkorigins articles sitting on the table in the gym. HA!

    SC, OM #92:

    “No one should forget that publicizing the planned cross-promotion with the zoo here played a big role in its eventual cancellation.”

    Naturally, but that was the encroachment of stupid upon the world. I think that institutionalized or promoted fuchtardism ought to be torn down efficiently and mercilessly, but the root of stupid is Far Tougher to kill. My point, and John’s too, if i’m not mistaken.

  97. #97 Jadehawk
    December 10, 2008

    Hell : A Warning to Atheists : Sodom & Gomorrah

    http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eef92723845f6aa9ac7c

    hmm… you show a video in which ruins of a large population center are shown, which are arbitrarily (i.e. without any evidence to support it) claimed to be the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah; then you compound it with an arbitrary claim that a large disaster destroyed these ruins (if you want to see what catastrophically destroyed cities look like, go take a tour of Pompeii).

    how exactly is a pile of freewheeling conjecture supposed to be scary?

    not to mention that according to your bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were NOT destroyed for atheism. they were destroyed for being so wicked, they broke the most fundamental rule of life in the Middle East: guests are to be honored, not harmed.

  98. #98 John Morales
    December 10, 2008

    RickrOll,

    jcr has a very good point PZ. You aren’t hurting him at all with your attacks. [...] All it does is feed what is essentially, a village of trolls.

    I consider otherwise, and I’m pretty sure PZ has considered this point yet still laughs at the ham.

  99. #99 Sman
    December 10, 2008

    Being that it is so near, I really want to go there… at least to have a photo proof that I was there.

    As a polite aside; the best way to get rid of “those” weirdos is- no thank you, I’m a Uniformitarianist.

    If that doesn’t work, you can always count on- Fuck you! Moron.

  100. #100 alex
    December 10, 2008

    v. nice video indeed – at least, nicely made, funny, full of humanity and stuff. the subject was somewhat horriffic.

  101. #101 Brownian, OM
    December 11, 2008

    not to mention that according to your bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were NOT destroyed for atheism. they were destroyed for being so wicked, they broke the most fundamental rule of life in the Middle East: guests are to be honored, not harmed.

    Jadehawk, you’ve violated the fundamental rule of life as a fundie: knowing what the bible actually says.

  102. #102 matt
    December 11, 2008

    goddammit my home state is so stupid sometimes.

  103. #103 scooter
    December 11, 2008

    Haha

    Great video, two opposables up.
    Very well done.

  104. #104 waldteufel
    December 11, 2008

    That the Creation Museum is a piece of shit goes without saying.

    The video in question, however, was disjointed, without a cohesive message, self indulgent, and, well, poorly made and, yes, pretty lame.

    Also, I’m sorry they paid AiG, and the bearded fraud who leads it, anything just to get in.

    Just saying . . . .

  105. #105 Dadeolus
    December 11, 2008

    am I losing it, or did I see a cavewoman with an orange carrot? Carrots weren’t orange until we selectively bred them that way, they were purple…unless I am totally misremembering that fact!

  106. #106 Dan F.
    December 11, 2008

    Their Hebrew is completely off on the sign about languages. Some characters are backwards; some are backwards and upside-down. They couldn’t even ask a Jew? Or at the very least consult a website? Very multi-cultural.

  107. #107 raptureThis
    December 11, 2008

    If I didn’t have kids, I’d be laughing my ass off. But seriously, I have to worry about what is being taught in school. It’s just plain f’d up that I have to watch out for signs of Inteligent Design creeping in; and now I have to watch out that teachers aren’t getting tricked into wanting ‘freedom to teach’. I fear their efforts are never ending and only getting more money and play time in the media ever so easy to suck it up to get more money. On a good note, we actually have lobyists representing us in Washington. Really. I have proof, for all you skeptics out there.

    http://www.secular.org/

    Our front line in Washington.

  108. #108 Samn
    December 11, 2008

    goddammit my home state is so stupid sometimes.

    Aaah, but sir, it “gits” worse.

  109. #109 Patricia, OM
    December 11, 2008

    But JCR, some of us like trolls.
    PZ must struggle with one hell of a troll budget to keep us supplied with feisty, raw and wriggling prey. Who knows how much he has to bid to get well aged, thoroughly bible marinated fundies.
    I’m tapping my ruby slippers together, and hoping Trollclaus will bring us something special for the Solstice feast!

  110. #110 Twin-Skies
    December 11, 2008

    @Dan F.

    I imagine they did inquire with more than one consultant, only to be told the equivalent of “F**k off!” Ken Ham…his name’s not even Kosher.

  111. #111 Wowbagger
    December 11, 2008

    I’m tapping my ruby slippers together, and hoping Trollclaus will bring us something special for the Solstice feast!

    Agreed – a good troll can be entertaining and good exercise for the thinkin’ and ‘splainin’ muscles.

    Just as long as he also brings, for everyone, the good sense to know which battles to fight – so they can not expend any unnecessary effort on poe-trolls and other time-and-effort-wasting assclowns.

  112. #112 Aaron
    December 11, 2008

    Sarah:

    Up here in Richmond, we have the “Indiana Football Hall of Fame” — I imagine that even with all the chest-thumping, the signal:noise ratio is probably much better than the Creation Mu…Mus…M.. I can’t say it. That place in Petersburg.

    Then again, it’s only open once or twice a week, possibly by appointment only; so you’ll want to book in advance! ;)

  113. #113 RickrOll
    December 11, 2008

    “I consider otherwise, and I’m pretty sure PZ has considered this point yet still laughs at the ham.”- John Morales

    If only there were some way to separate It from it’s pen and away from all the other pig-ignorant folk. There is something endearing about just how much stupid someone manages to encode in their grey matter, this is true.

    I’m curious also about the number of fundies who read this blog often but are too scared to come down to talk heh heh.

  114. #114 Wowbagger
    December 11, 2008

    I’m curious also about the number of fundies who read this blog often but are too scared to come down to talk heh heh.

    The cracker furor revealed there were a lot more people willing to come and attempt to lecture us on the finer points of catholic beliefs – though I can’t imagine any of them were regular lurkers; more likely they were brought here by a ‘call to the faithful’ by Donohue or one of his minions.

    It would be interesting to get a breakdown of the number of views by people who don’t post. I lurked for a while before gathering up the courage to post about something – and now I can’t seem to stop…

  115. #115 John Morales
    December 11, 2008

    Dadeolus @105,

    am I losing it, or did I see a cavewoman with an orange carrot? Carrots weren’t orange until we selectively bred them that way, they were purple…unless I am totally misremembering that fact!

    Yes, you did, and you just knew someone would check, right? ;) I know many common roots/vegetables are bred, but I hadn’t heard of this one.
    I get ambiguous
    The first mention of the root in classical sources is in the 1st century CE. The modern carrot appears to have been introduced to Europe in the 8-10th centuries; Ibn al-Awam, in Andalusia, describes both red and yellow carrots
    results:
    Brief History
    The bright orange fleshy root vegetable we know today as the carrot is a far cry from its wild ancestor, a small tough, pale fleshed acrid root plant. Probably no one would be eating carrots that were once small, very thin, red, purple, and even black taproots with a distasteful bitterness if no one had taken an interest in improving their flavour. Luckily, some motivated Dutch people took carrots under their horticultural wings and taught them how to be sweet, it’s a long story.

  116. #116 Jadehawk
    December 11, 2008

    a small tough, pale fleshed acrid root plant

    so the carrot originally looked and tasted like parsley-root? interesting. of course it didn’t even occur to me until now that they could be related. way to miss the obvious :-p

    Jadehawk, you’ve violated the fundamental rule of life as a fundie: knowing what the bible actually says.

    yeah I know… I’d make a lousy fundie

  117. #117 raven
    December 11, 2008

    Carrots are the domesticated version of wild carrots, also known as Queen Annes Lace. This is a European weed that has been naturalized in the USA. Where I used to live, it grew everywhere.

    Wild carrots look just like domesticate carrots except there are more leaves and stem, and the root is much smaller, tougher, and usually white. Supposedly they are edible and I’ve even tried them. They taste like a tough fibrous carrot.

    IIRC, the modern orange carrot is a relatively recent product of directed evolution. By of course, those evil Mendelians and Darwinists who have circumvented god’s plan of tribal warfare and starvation induced population control by feeding 6.7 billion people.

  118. #118 LUFTRITTER
    December 11, 2008

    This is a real tragedy!

    I feel appalled when I think in the waste of money and workforce invested in this big fraud.

    In my country we do not have any facility dedicated to real science and education near as good, big and modern like that. It saddens me when I realize how much money could be expended saving tropical rain forest or investing that in research.
    And I feel outraged when creationist justify this as acts aiming to the greater good of humankind!

  119. #119 Rey Fox
    December 11, 2008

    Richard Walker:
    “Atheists just like to pretend there is no Creation Museum so they can’t be held accountable for shoplifting things out of the Creation Museum gift shop.”

    Yes! Preach it, brother!

  120. #120 Walton
    December 11, 2008

    What was with the terrible soundtrack to this video?

  121. #121 RickrOll
    December 11, 2008

    “By of course, those evil Mendelians and Darwinists who have circumvented god’s plan of tribal warfare and starvation induced population control by feeding 6.7 billion people.”

    Excuse you how many? It’s going to be alot closer to 6 or 5.5 billion- there’s alot of starving people out there, Raven. Population, it’s the ax murderer in the room

  122. #122 Somnolent Aphid
    December 11, 2008

    ymmmmm wafflehouse

  123. #123 Somnolent Aphid
    December 11, 2008

    @bornagain77 – aw… somebody needs hug? I love you. Come here you big galoot.

  124. #124 Emmet Caulfield
    December 11, 2008

    Ken Ham’s Creation Museum

    Eh, no. It’s not a museum. It doesn’t meet any reasonable definition of “museum” (e.g. “a depository for collecting and displaying objects having scientific, historical, or artistic value”). I refuse to call it a “museum”. It’s an affront to real museums. Instead, I’m calling it Ken Ham’s Temple of Ignorance.

  125. #125 Emmet Caulfield
    December 11, 2008

    Thus spake Wowbagger:

    I lurked for a while before gathering up the courage to post about something – and now I can’t seem to stop…

    I know the feeling… it’s… it’s… addictive.

  126. #126 Brian
    December 11, 2008

    This would be better without the interspersed ridicule. But then, that’s also the case for this blog.

  127. #127 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 11, 2008

    This would be better without the interspersed ridicule. But then, that’s also the case for this blog.

    And why is Ham’s abomination to good museums not deserving of ridicule?

  128. #128 Nerd of Redhead
    December 11, 2008

    I lurked for a while before gathering up the courage to post about something – and now I can’t seem to stop…

    Et tu Brute…

  129. #129 J-Dog
    December 11, 2008

    We’re all lucky Bornagain77 didn’t post one of his usual 3,0000 word screeds, complete with biblical chapter and verse , “proving” Intelligent Design is really science.

    BA – If you’re reading this – LO^VE your Nan^ny Filter!

  130. #130 Neo-etymologist
    December 11, 2008

    New meanings for old words:

    Ham- 1. to over act. 2. To take an idea and explode it beyond all that is reasonable and/or logical.

    Hamster (hAm-sta) – a small mammal of limited intellect who believes anything they are told to.

  131. #131 Jiff
    December 11, 2008

    This place would be fun to go to stoned. Like a fun house of nonsense.
    Down is up! Black is white!

    Or walk through with a megaphone

    ‘People of Earth! This place is nothing but
    Big BIg Fake Fake LIES!’

  132. #132 JC DiStefano
    December 11, 2008

    Ha! I loved the inclusion of the excellent song by the Dandy Warhols, “Hard On For Jesus”!

  133. #133 Paul Nerves
    December 11, 2008

    Top notch! Thanks for enduring that.

  134. #134 AnthonyK
    December 11, 2008

    This would be better without the interspersed ridicule. But then, that’s also the case for this blog

    Yes, I agree. This blog would be so much better without humour and ridicule. Shame on us!

  135. #135 dorght
    December 11, 2008

    At 10:44 into the movie there is at last proof that creationist are an alien life form that we more common life forms cannot relate to. At the lower right corner of the frame is the Science is Awsome tee shirt which clearly illustrates that creationists have — left handed double helix DNA. I just knew there was something diffent about them.

    Noah’s Ark clip just had a different tune running through my. … If not for the prays of the holy crew the dinosaurs would be lost, the dinosaurs would be lost…

  136. #136 DiscoveredJoys
    December 11, 2008

    There’s a sucker Born Again every minute.

    Unfortunately.

  137. #137 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    December 11, 2008

    There’s a sucker Born Again every minute.

    Yeah, but don’t you find it strange that they are all patrons of the Creation Museum?

  138. #138 Nick Gotts
    December 11, 2008

    Excuse you how many? It’s going to be alot closer to 6 or 5.5 billion- there’s alot of starving people out there, Raven. RickrOll

    Crap. Many people are malnourished, but actual starvation currently occurs only as a result of war and the consequent inability to transport food. Global population is indeed currently around 6.7 billion, as raven said, and is increasing by about 75 million p.a. Why the hell do people feel the urge to write blithering nonsense about demographics when they know fuck-all about it? The basic facts are easily googled.

  139. #139 Not that Louis
    December 11, 2008

    If I recall correctly, the museum cost 25 million to build. If the creationist movement really felt they had a scientifically respectable argument, that money could have gone into the basic research to find evidence to support their case.

  140. #140 MPG
    December 11, 2008

    Seems to me that all those Creation Museum patrons are Hellbound – doesn’t Leviticus 11 say that swallowing Ham is forbidden?

  141. #141 Jadehawk
    December 11, 2008

    Excuse you how many? It’s going to be alot closer to 6 or 5.5 billion- there’s alot of starving people out there, Raven. Population, it’s the ax murderer in the room

    well actually, we do easily produce enough food to feed ALL the current world population. it’s a distribution problem: while we in the west feed food to our cars and to other food, people in other parts are starving.

  142. #142 davem
    December 11, 2008

    Hell : A Warning to Atheists : Sodom & Gomorrah

    Dear bornagain,

    Please go to your nearest library (you may have to get a card for what is undoubtedly your first visit), and take out a good geology primer. Look up ‘evaporites’, and consider the nearby presence of the Dead Sea.

    Then come back with some actual evidence for your fantasy.

  143. #143 Warren
    December 11, 2008

    There was one book that might have been of value in the bookstore: “Loving your Muslim Neighbor”.

    What’s most astounding to me about the museum is that so many people seem utterly blind to how silly the whole thing is.

  144. #144 Lyz Liddell
    December 11, 2008

    I hope some of the $10/month I send to the SSA helped pay for producing this video. If not… cool anyhow.

    David – thanks for your support to the Secular Student Alliance! We have provided SAIU with resources, guidance and a project grant since they formed, services that would not be possible without the people like you who support us. Our thanks go out to you and any other readers/commenters who support SSA!

  145. #145 Thomas Byrne
    December 11, 2008

    I mean do you laugh or cry I mean… what do you do with that shit?
    I know of a small (really small) creationist group in Co. Cork (Ireland) started by a group from AIG which seem to have drifted over here on a piece of bark. Seriously. Stay the hell over there don’t be comin’ over here with that bullshit. I’ll be waitin’ around the coastline with me stick beatin’ them back.
    Luckily this island is small so there won’t be enough whack jobs to become powerful where as the same perccentage of whack jobs happens to be quite big and hence powerful and organised.

  146. #146 Emmet Caulfield
    December 11, 2008

    If I recall correctly, the museum cost 25 million to build. If the creationist movement really felt they had a scientifically respectable argument, that money could have gone into the basic research to find evidence to support their case.

    Good point.

    I wonder if anyone has compared the fraction of the Creationist, em, “science” budget spent on promotion (near 100%, I’d guess) with the fraction of real science budgets spent on promotion (near 5%, I’d guess)?

  147. #147 khan
    December 11, 2008

    Glad they didn’t leave out:CCR “Bad Moon Rising”

  148. #148 Jeremy
    December 11, 2008

    $25 million could have helped a lot of poor people, which would have been in the spirit of Jesus’ teachings. Why does Ken Ham hate Jesus?

  149. #149 ChrisKG
    December 11, 2008

    Strange, they have a lot of security cameras and security guards around. What does that say about the Christians who go there?

  150. #150 Another Lost Soul
    December 11, 2008

    @ ChrisKG #149

    They’re probably worried that someone will break free from the brainwashing and see that this “museum” is really full of shit. The last thing they need is to have someone visit who is capable of independent thought.

  151. #151 ChrisKG
    December 11, 2008

    Another Lost Soul,

    This really begs the question, “how do you fix stupid?”

    They are not full of shit, they are overwhelmed with it!

    I wonder if they would answer a few simple questions like:

    “Were Adam and Eve Breast fed or bottle fed?”
    (Follow up: Was Jesus breast fed too?)

    “Why don’t snakes talk now?”

    “If the Earth was created in 7 24-hours days, what time zone was that in?”

    “How was the light formed before the sun?”

    and so on…

  152. #152 DingoDave
    December 13, 2008

    Posted by Dadeolus @ #105: “am I losing it, or did I see a cavewoman with an orange carrot? Carrots weren’t orange until we selectively bred them that way, they were purple…”

    They were indeed!

    See here;
    ‘History of the Carrot – Part One, Origins and Development’
    http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html

    You’ve got to love the British. Who else would have thought to start an online a carrot museum? Come to think of it, the Carrot Museum is a damned sight more educational than Ken Ham’s monument to ignorance. By the way, I would like to apologize on behalf of all Australians for this particular Australian export.

  153. #153 D
    December 13, 2008

    Here’s a picture of a wild carrot prior to selective breeding.
    Mmmm. Yummy!

    http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/820/40012698.JPG

  154. #154 Eclogite
    December 14, 2008

    Way to go SAIU! Thanks for sharing your adventure into creation science super-fantastic crazyland.