…and this is a 
Yeah, I get odd threats. Apparently, I can now expect every Christian in the country to now inundate my university with mail accusing me of Marxism and telling us that evolution is dead. It's kind of a threat; if it happens, then I'll post Bonnie's full headers and we can wage a little internet war. I suspect, though, this will be nothing but a damp squib from an ignorant kook with delusions of competence.
Professor P.T. Myers
Dr. PZ Myers
Division of Science and Mathematics
600 E 4th Avenue
University of Minnesota, Morris
Morris, MN 56267Dear Mr. Myers,
I am writing to you concerning the email campaign you instigated against the Creation Museum and the Cincinnati Zoo and your personal vendetta against Mr. Hamm.
I don't know what your ultimate agenda is in propagating a writing campaign to a Zoo in a state you don't live in and your taxes don't support, but your ignorance is apparent. How someone so intolerant and closed minded could possibly be considered educated is beyond my comprehension. What scares me more is that people like you are teaching our children. You don't teach science. You indoctrinate with propaganda. Darwin has about as much evidence proving natural selection as you have in proving there is no God.
You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor, you should know that you have NO RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate just because you disagree with their arguement. This only proves your hatred of people of faith. What are you afraid of?
It is teachers like you that have exploded the growth of home schooling. It is professors like you that have encouraged the installation and growth of faith based and Christian Colleges. So for that, I guess I have people like you to thank. Thank God my children will have somewhere else to go. I don't want them learning the fairy tale of evolution, I want them to be free to investigate ALL available arguments. All of them. I mean, the theory of evolution is all you have? Seriously? Science isn't in the box, professor. You can't prove evolution and you can't prove creation. No one can. So why can't we talk about both? We rehash the same dead, unproven, broken theory when there are so many other questions out there to be asked, researched and experimented with? That sir, is intolerance. That is bigotry. That is ignorance.
I don't think the Cincinatti Zoo will be thanking you. As a result of your hatred and intolerance toward anyone that says "bless you", The Cincinatti Zoo has lost a very valuable partner,and a lot of visitors to their website.
I would like to point out to you, Mr. Myers, that you are not the only one who runs a blog,and you are not the only one who can write.
I may not be a professor, but I know how to write a press release and I know how to advertise. That's my business. So here's what I will do for you.
Let's see how your school handles an email blitz from Christians (which I will point out to you sir, comprises of approximately 97% of the population of the United States). I am suddenly motivated to hit every one of my news sources and let them know how marxist you are. I want every parent in this country to know exactly what dangers their kids face, risking having you as a professor in that school. I want them all to know that it's not good enough to indoctrinate just the students in your lecture hall. You want to make sure NO ONE gets exposure to any possible answers.
I want all those Christian families to think twice before ever considering sending their kids to University of Minnesota . . . and don't worry. I'll make sure you get plenty of credit for their decision. Email campaigns can work both ways professor. Oh, I know your school is not the only culprit and you're not the only marxist professor teaching in our colleges. However, we can start with this one.
Evolution is a failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested. You know it, and most of your radical scientists know it. And this kind of attack from you is just evident of the death throes of the false theory of evolution. Much like the snake trying to get one last bite as you cut off it's head, it knows it's dying . . . it knows it's not going to win, but it's going to try like hell to do as much damage as it can before it dies. Real scientific, doc. Darwin is your god. We have proof that he is dead. Mine is not. You have no proof that he doesn't exist. You won't let anyone try to prove it, which I guess answers what you are afraid of. Let the kids discuss it professor. What are you afraid ot? Research is the mother of discovery.
Ninety-seven percent are Christian in this country, professor, think about that. It's a well known statistic. . . I know state taxes don't pay ALL your school's bills.
You can post this on your blog, you can laugh or throw it away, delete it . . . I don't care. It is of no consequence to me. I just wanted to let you know how I feel and what I'm about to embark on. Because marxists are not the only ones afforded freedom of speech and freedom to inquire in this country. If freedom to bully others is an ammedment I haven't heard of yet, then I guess we both share that right as well.
I hope this doesn't offend you, but I end most of my letters this way . . . God Bless you. You are the one who needs it.
Respectfully,
Bonnie Cox
Comments
Posted by: Kobra | December 6, 2008 11:18 PM
Image courtesy of Encyclopedia Dramatica. http://encyclopediadramatica.com/TL;DR
Posted by: Kobra | December 6, 2008 11:22 PM
I was expecting this part to be followed up with fatwah envy.Posted by: folgsam | December 6, 2008 11:22 PM
tl;dr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | December 6, 2008 11:24 PM
Hmm... According to the CIA, only about 78% of Americans are Christians.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
-jcr
Posted by: Raytheist | December 6, 2008 11:25 PM
Hoooo-weeeee! That letter is full of FAIL.
You have no right to interfere with others, but she has a right to blast you up one side and down the other. Hmmm.
Why is it every time some fanatic cites a figure it is always higher than the polls report? Her breed of Christian numbers not much more than the combined atheist/agnostic/non-affiliated group, while a larger chunk of Christians are moderate/liberal and many understand evolution.
ah well... if I shut up and punch the button maybe I'll be #1 this time.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 6, 2008 11:26 PM
No . . . really??? (shock and awe!) Does it surprise you that Christians have an opinion? This is nothing. You just wait and see what's going to happen. Do you know what an Apostate is? How about a Heretic? How about a Hypocrite? Someone who derides someone for doing the same thing they themselves do (like worshiping a god). You guys have Darwin . . . uh, only we know HE'S dead. What a shame he didn't have as much faith in his own theories as you lemmings do.
Posted by: James | December 6, 2008 11:26 PM
Marxist is something good, how odd to use it as a negative.
If Mr Myers is a Marxist, it means he thinks everyone is equal (not racist) and that everyone should deserve a good life (socialism). Communism is the ultimate idealogy, unfortunately the world is to self-centered to accept it (thats why we cant implement it because of the racism and self-centered concern).
Posted by: llewelly | December 6, 2008 11:26 PM
OH NO PZ!!! Teh CYBERPISTOL iz pointed at YOU now! what will you do?
Posted by: Kobra | December 6, 2008 11:26 PM
Oh, how could I gloss over this?
And this:Last I checked, only half the US was Christian, and only one third of the world.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Religious_affiliation
If 8.4% of the USA is atheist/agnostic according to those numbers, how is it possible that 97% of the USA is Christian? Oh, they must be counting dead people in those statistics.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 6, 2008 11:26 PM
Dear Bonnie,
Fuck you, you ignorant twat. Less than 10 seconds of Googling would reveal evidence of evolution; reading this blog would do the same thing. But no, like a Good Little Christian (TM), you would rather assert your opinion as reality, just like your precious preachers do. But, alas, reality does not conform to your beliefs, your opinions, nor does it conform to what your preacher spits out on Sundays.
Oh, and no, Christians are not 97% of this country you dumb bitch; but again, that would require you to not assert fact, but actually read and obtain fact. And please, please continue to use mob-mentality and attempt censorship; it's what you retards do best.
Hope this didn't offend you,
Dr. D.
Posted by: Sastra | December 6, 2008 11:27 PM
There's so much that's wrong with this letter. I noticed this bit:
So Creationist "research" is kids discussing the idea in class. Yes. It reminds me of that conversation I had with the gentleman at the Young Earth Creationism booth at the county fair last summer. I asked him why, if creationism was so scientific, there were no studies published in scientific journals. "Where are all your research labs?"
He waved his hand towards the crowd. "Here. Here is our research lab."
Right. Creationists seem to confuse research with conversion. If they can convince enough people, they've tested and proved the truth of Creationism --scientifically. No wonder they think evolution is a 'religion.' It's all they know.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:27 PM
That was a pretty long letter to say "you're a poopie head and I'm telling everyone"
um no.
PZ did you pull and injunction out of your pocket that we didn't know about
Obviously this woman hasn't heard of cracker gate.
Not afraid, annoyed.
what the hell does this even mean. There is so much fail in that sentence.
Posted by: Maakuz | December 6, 2008 11:27 PM
P.T. Myers? Mr. Hamm? Who are these people??
Posted by: Christie | December 6, 2008 11:28 PM
The writer apparently hasn't heard that a good amount of those christians don't disagree with evolution... like, oh, I dunno, most of the Catholic, Prodestant, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, and Baptist ones... so who is going to e-mail you? The small minority of Creationists?
Posted by: Pustulio | December 6, 2008 11:28 PM
When exactly did "marxist" become the buzzword insult of choice among the right? Do any of these people actually know what a marxist is?
Posted by: Jodi | December 6, 2008 11:31 PM
I love how she ends it with "Respectfully." You certainly wouldn't want a disrespectful ranting, threatening letter.
Posted by: Porky Pine | December 6, 2008 11:31 PM
Bonnie writes:"What a shame he [Darwin] didn't have as much faith in his own theories as you lemmings do."
Wrong Bonnie. Darwin never recanted. The Lady Hope story is a lie.
Posted by: clinteas | December 6, 2008 11:31 PM
In 100 years when the USA is a theocracy without electricity,innovations or scientific institutions,when the IQ of the average american is below 70,the inhabitants of the first world will regard the US just the way they are regarding sub-saharan Africa today.
As a lost cause.
Well done,Bonnie Cox.
Posted by: Kobra | December 6, 2008 11:31 PM
@15:
marxist- noun. Any person that Rush Limbaugh would yell at behind their back.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 6, 2008 11:33 PM
Darwin has about as much evidence proving natural selection as you have in proving there is no God.
Yep, that's true, just not the way Bonnie was thinking. Though anyone who simply pulls "statistics" out of her ass and who thinks that Hitler and Marx are ideological bedfellows probably doesn't engage much in thought.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | December 6, 2008 11:33 PM
At least she respects you, PZ. You may be a deluded, atheistic, Marxist, radical scientist, but you still have her respect.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:34 PM
No. And it doesn't surprise me that frequently their opinions are stupid.
ooooooooooooooooooohhhh scary.
yes and what dos that have to do with this. Are you thinking of joining the rational and becoming an atheist?
I smell a witch BURNING!!!! Get the marshmallows.
Do you have something to confess?
Can you rephrase that into something intelligible?
Oh this should be good. Do tell us what you mean here.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 6, 2008 11:34 PM
It's late and I can only handle so much stupid at the moment. Total lack of valid reasoning, Hitler, the kitchen sink. Total fail to persuade. I wish these idiots would quit studying at IgnoranceR̈UsTM christian schools. The incoherence sounds the same for all the drive-by posters.
Posted by: James | December 6, 2008 11:35 PM
[quote]In 100 years when the USA is a theocracy without electricity,innovations or scientific institutions,when the IQ of the average american is below 70,the inhabitants of the first world will regard the US just the way they are regarding sub-saharan Africa today.
As a lost cause.
Well done,Bonnie Cox.[/Quote]
That is gravely insulting. I just came back from Sub Sahara and most countries have a people far more open and certainly superior to American population (whom are some of the most ignorant peopel you may encounter in the world today).
They may be poor, but the people are not stupid, like in the U.S. Mind your tounge dear sir
Posted by: Jesus Christ of Nazareth | December 6, 2008 11:35 PM
Psst. She's not with me.
Posted by: Mena | December 6, 2008 11:35 PM
Bonnie, don't bother replying to this because I use a filter and will never see your message.
Why can't you people see that nobody is upset that you are a person of faith, what everyone is reacting to is that you and those like you are dicks.
C'mon, are social skills really THAT hard to learn? Hint: if you are trying to emulate someone on Fox or on conservative radio, you are doing it wrong. They seem to be the biggest dicks of them all, although that could be due to their audience mindlessly repeating (like mantras) the same stuff over and over that they heard on tv or the radio. Try to go more along the lines of doing onto others and you would have done onto you. If you start acting like a Christian, you won't have to keep telling everyone that you are one. We surely can't tell by your love.
Posted by: dave | December 6, 2008 11:36 PM
"If freedom to bully others is an ammedment I haven't heard of yet, then I guess we both share that right as well."
i feel i'm the one being bullied and hated on by them. how can they in good conscious (and with their high school american education) say things like this? we should all bless bonnie cox with our letters
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:37 PM
yawn
Posted by: Sastra | December 6, 2008 11:37 PM
"You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor, you should know that you have NO RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate just because you disagree with their arguement."
Good to know that Christians will no longer boycott businesses which have policies they disagree with, in order to influence them to change those policies.
Of course, PZ Myers was fighting on behalf the scientific integrity of the Cincinnati Zoo, not against it.
"I want all those Christian families to think twice before ever considering sending their kids to University of Minnesota . . . and don't worry. I'll make sure you get plenty of credit for their decision."
Yes, I'm sure all those poor home-schooled Young Earth Creationists will be sorely missed.
This argument was not about religion. It was about pseudoscience. And I suspect the good Ms. Cox would be surprised to know how many Christians are on the side of evolution, and are relieved that the association with the Creation Museum has been removed.
After all, she cannot deny they're Christians. Not after citing that 97% figure, she can't.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 6, 2008 11:37 PM
If 8.4% of the USA is atheist/agnostic according to those numbers, how is it possible that 97% of the USA is Christian?
They're probably assuming that babies and fetuses are Christian by default.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 6, 2008 11:37 PM
Hi Bonnie, here's a little nugget of information for you: opinions don't mean jack fucking shit. Science isn't formulated by opinion, it's formulated by evidence; you know, that pesky little stuff about repeatable observations, predictability, all those things your stupid-ass bible can't seem to do?
Oh, and your opinion is fucking stupid. The only reason you're a Christian is because you were born here. If you were born in the Middle East, you'd likely be a Muslim, and likely just as stupid.
Posted by: Brian's A Wild Downer | December 6, 2008 11:38 PM
OK,Bonnie, you must be using some definition of the word "god" that has been unused for many centuries. So perhaps you should try explaining to us how it is that Darwin is a god.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:39 PM
Are you suggesting that Bonnie is a Mormon?
Posted by: KevPod | December 6, 2008 11:40 PM
Comic Sans only elevates that morass of bilge.
Posted by: Goheels | December 6, 2008 11:40 PM
Evolution is a theory in the same sense that gravity is a theory, or F = ma is a theory. Creationism is a theory in the same sense that the world is flat is a theory. This letter was rather disturbing. By the way PZ, thanks for letting us know about the Cinci Zoo/Creation Museum nonsense, I emailed the zoo and thus, in a small sense, feel somewhat responsible for the great triumph of truth over superstitious falsehood and nonsense in this case.
Posted by: Radioactive afikomen | December 6, 2008 11:41 PM
No, it's not. Approximately 55 million (18.3%) of Americans don't identify as Christians. And that doesn't count the many millions more whom are non-practicing and only nominally Christian.Posted by: JimB | December 6, 2008 11:42 PM
We sent email.
And now you threaten to send email.
But we're the hypocrits.
Logic, ur not doing it rite.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 6, 2008 11:43 PM
I always thought he'd be cool as one of the New Gods; Kirby could have given him the ability to randomly mutate his opponent, then naturally select the weakest mutation, then kick his ass.
Yeah, I don't get out much :)
Posted by: skepsci | December 6, 2008 11:43 PM
If I were PZ, I'd send a three-word reply: "Bring it, bitch." Before she started making threats it was just embarrassing, but then it started getting funny.
Posted by: James F | December 6, 2008 11:43 PM
Well, if more publicity is to be drawn to something by the antievolution crowd, let it be Ken Ham's museum. Dinosaurs with saddles. The nadir of willful ignorance and dishonesty.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:44 PM
?I have no idea what you're talking about but I like it.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | December 6, 2008 11:46 PM
It's sufficient for our purposes.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 6, 2008 11:46 PM
For the Reverend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Gods
Posted by: clinteas | December 6, 2008 11:46 PM
*sighs and sees another 1000 post one looming*
@ 24,
Dear Sir/Madam,
i was referring to the "lost cause",not the IQ.And I thought that would be obvious.
Indeed.Scary to see whats out there,the amount of sheer ignorance,coupled with blind religious fervor,and the ever-present persecution complex.
Posted by: Allan | December 6, 2008 11:47 PM
Sounds like Bonnie's in need of some serious medication.
Posted by: Peter McKellar | December 6, 2008 11:47 PM
I'm with Naked Bunny at #20 - the magisteria overlap (completely), evilution is with us (and provable in about 1,000 ways first hand). With the fact of evolution, physics etc all gods have to go. Sorry Bonnie - FAIL.
I really do get sick of this "world view" crap. try running this by the tax department:
$1 million gross income - zero (evidence for) deductions = zero taxable income (and gimme a big grant)
and see how far you get.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 6, 2008 11:48 PM
Yes.
They mean that someone is exercising freedom of religion.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:49 PM
Ahh that explains it. I was more a Marvel and indie comic reader. never got into the DC universe.
Posted by: Billy | December 6, 2008 11:50 PM
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
Maybe she made a typo and meant 79%, which is what CIA research suggests.
Oh wait, she later spelled out "ninety seven"
Judging by the rest of her letter, the odds of her being misinformed are greater than the odds of her being that dyslexic.
Sigh. I feel at times that we are arguing with a collective-minded 5 year old who wants a toy he's not allowed to have.
Posted by: Barry | December 6, 2008 11:50 PM
Bonnie. Please. Stop. Don't ever talk about science again until you read a science book. Any science book will do. Elementary school, highschool, whatever. Until you've figured out what a ribosome is, just stay out of these kind of debates and forums. Your letter is thoroughly embarassing and suggests that you may be legally retarded.
Posted by: Justin | December 6, 2008 11:50 PM
She, clearly, also does not live in Cincinnati or pay taxes to them, because she would then know exactly how Cincinnati is spelled (hint: 3 n's, 1 t).
So by her own logic, she has no right to be emailing anyone about this.
To quote JimB, "Logic, ur not doing it rite."
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 6, 2008 11:52 PM
Darwin my god? I thought it was the Redhead. :-)
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 6, 2008 11:52 PM
I was always a huge DC guy, got about 5 or 6 thousand comics. But you're in luck, Kirby is also responsible for one of the coolest guys ever: the Silver Surfer! Now imagine Darwin on that board!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:52 PM
Bonnie, come on back and tell us how wrong we are again.
Please!
Posted by: andrew | December 6, 2008 11:53 PM
fucking dip shit. Learn some science before talking about it asshat
Posted by: wtfwmd | December 6, 2008 11:54 PM
So, if I get this correct, if Hitler *was* PZ's mentor then he *would* have the "...RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate just because you disagree with their arguement. "
WTF?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 6, 2008 11:56 PM
AHHHHH that Kirby.
yeah I've got a few thousand sitting in boxes from when i was into them. I figured i'd sell them at some point and make a fortune...
In a move from Colorado to SC lost the only box of comics I wanted to keep. All Cerebus from 1 - 200 or so. Gone. Oh well. Sims became a giant religious idiot misogynist by the time I stopped reading anyway.
BONNIE!!!!!!!!!! COME BACK
Posted by: Alligator | December 6, 2008 11:56 PM
Her fixation with what can't be proven reminds me of dinosaurs listing things that don't exist. http://www.qwantz.com/archive/000233.html
Posted by: Bachalon | December 6, 2008 11:56 PM
Wow, the Hitler thing didn't take long did it?
Posted by: Peter McKellar | December 6, 2008 11:56 PM
"bless you"
the appropriate response (imnsho) is "Fuck You (I'm not inhabited by demons)" or "how about a simple 'cover your mouth'" if I'm feeling generous
Posted by: Kubenzi | December 6, 2008 11:57 PM
I bet she is already the laughing stock of her town and oblivious to it.That seems to often be the case with characters such as Bonnie.
Posted by: Robert | December 6, 2008 11:58 PM
Yes, she is a nut, but you have to admit that this letter is much better written than most of those that PZ gets.
Posted by: Chiefley | December 6, 2008 11:58 PM
Bonnie,
Did you know that about 1.8 billion Christians out of the 2 billion Christians in the world belong to denominations whose doctrines officially encourage science and specifically cite the theory of evolution as being the best explanation for the diversity of life on the planet.
I invite you to examine the social statements on the websites of the Presbyterians, the Episcopalians, the UCCs, the Roman Catholic church, and the recent resolution supporting the teaching of Evolution in public schools at the last annual convention of the Methodist Church.
You see, only a small minority of Christian denominations believe that there is a conflict between science and theology. In fact, some of the best writing on science and religion comes from Christian authors. ELCA Lutherans and Catholics are especially prolific in this area.
I dare you to go to the websites of the major Christian denominations and see for yourself that most of the Christian world disagrees with your quest to inject your faith into the world of science.
Posted by: Brian's A Wild Downer | December 6, 2008 11:59 PM
I do love a game of Name That Logical Fallacy.
Posted by: Feynmaniac | December 7, 2008 12:00 AM
1955 called. It wants it's insult back.
Can these people ever not project?
Half right. You can't show it to be true, but you can show it to be false and creationism is false.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 12:00 AM
True. Far less typos than I would have in something that long.
but the content is searingly stupid.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 7, 2008 12:01 AM
I think my favorite Kirby character was Etrigan the Demon. I've a few Batman comics from the 90s where Joker makes a deal with Etrigan, but then realizes that he's nothing to actually bargain with. Afterall, the devil already had the Joker's soul, he was just waiting to collect it.
And of course (Bonnie, take note here!), comics would be the only place where one would expect to find a soul; well, specifically, in a work of fiction.
But now, my all time favorite was Hal Jordan, aka Green Lantern, moreso than even Allen Scott.
And now back to our regularly scheduled thread...
Posted by: Paper Hand | December 7, 2008 12:02 AM
They mean that someone is exercising freedom of religion.
Indeed. According to Merriam-Webster, the etymology of heresy is:
Apostasy:
We're rebels who believe in choice! Sounds good to me!
Posted by: Helvetica | December 7, 2008 12:02 AM
@15: I was thinking about this last night. It's kind of like squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. People like Bonnie assume that all atheists/evolutionists/etc are Marxists, and that all rectangles are squares.
Posted by: Barry | December 7, 2008 12:02 AM
I truly feel bad for her kids. Could you imagine growing up being raised by such a belligerent moron?
Posted by: Loki | December 7, 2008 12:03 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Bonnie Cox sounds like a good name for a Scottish porn star?
I know, I know, entirely inappropriate and I'll go away now so as to not lower the tone of the discussion.
Posted by: Rey Fox | December 7, 2008 12:04 AM
"You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor, you should know that you have NO RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate just because you disagree with their arguement."
I zeroed in on the all-caps part pretty much reflexively, and decided the rest of the letter wasn't worth the bother, because Christianists always have the absolute most retarded concept of "rights" possible. PZ made a blog post about a zoo casting their lot with a psuedoscience organization and encouraged a letter-writing campaign against the decision. The Cincy Zoo could have just ignored us and gone on with the promo. Hardly what I'd call "interfering", and certainly what I would call well within anyone's rights.
What people like Bonnie keep reminding me of is that her kind see words (and, by extension, the cyberpistol one wields to use those words) as having magical power. So there's no point in reading any more of the letter.
Posted by: Liberal Atheist | December 7, 2008 12:06 AM
Since Bonnie is educated, I can only assume she does not believe in ancient fairytales, and I am also certain that she has a basic grasp on modern science. Therefore she is against the Creation Museum just like everyone else, and that is a good thing to know. ;-)
And on a serious note, I am totally intolerant against antiscience.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 12:09 AM
PZ if this is true you are responsible for the stupification of many people.
Shame on you.
Posted by: lamb | December 7, 2008 12:11 AM
I feel overwhelmed with joy whenever I read these emails. There is just something so delightful about people using large words in an attempt to sound intelligent - and then showing how stupid they are by not being able to spell properly. Granted she did a better job than some, but not by very much.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 12:12 AM
And we know that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is dead.
And as for Darwin...
I do hereby utterly renounce and deny that Charles Darwin is a god, or ever was a god. I deny the he was or is omniscient, or salvific, or able to work miracles. I deny that he walked on water, or turned water into wine. I deny that he died for our sins. I deny that he was perfect. I deny that he was descended from the line of King David. I deny that he was born of a virgin. I deny that he rose after death. I deny that it is correct to pray to him or offer sacrifices to him. And I affirm that any prayer and sacrifices made to him have no effect whatsoever. I affirm that I do not worship him, and that he is not worthy of worship.
OK, Bonnie, now it's your turn. You write what I just wrote, only substitute "Jesus Christ of Nazareth" for "Charles Darwin".
I double-dog dare you.
Posted by: mirroreyes | December 7, 2008 12:13 AM
Opinions are easy, even my dog has an opinion (just one, and it regards the guy that gives him food) ... it's backing one's opinion up that matters and to be honest, my dog has a better chance than you do.
Are you making fun of my dog because he worships me? My dog Rex demands equal time, and will take the podium after you stop barking.
I'm sorry, Rex interrupted me, he says you're not worth it, and requests I continue reading Origin of the Species to him to help understand how many levels you are wrong on.Posted by: BobC | December 7, 2008 12:14 AM
Bonnie Cox's letter: Lying about science in the 2nd paragraph. Godwin's Law in the 3rd paragraph. Suppression of free speech in the 3rd paragraph. PZ "hates" Christians in the 3rd paragraph. PZ accused of being afraid in the 3rd paragraph. More lying about science in the 4th paragraph. Demand for equal time for magical creation in the 4th paragraph. PZ called an ignorant intolerant bigot in the 4th paragraph. More PZ "hates" Christians in the 5th paragraph. Extremely dishonest claim in the 8th paragraph (97% of Americans are Christians). PZ is a marxist in the 8th & 9th & 12th paragraphs. More lying about science in the 10th paragraph. PZ worships Darwin in the 10th paragraph. Dishonest claim about percentage of Americans who are Christian repeated in the 11th paragraph. The insult "God Bless you" in the last paragraph.
Posted by: chuckbert | December 7, 2008 12:15 AM
Frankly I'd be surprised if 97% of US Christians are actually Christian.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 12:15 AM
Therefore relevance of my post @ 18.
They are outbreeding the intelligent people.And fast.
Posted by: Steven Dunlap | December 7, 2008 12:16 AM
Hmm. But we can and have disproven every other explanation than evolution, including and especially the one about the 6 day creation circa 8K years ago followed by the dingalings who failed to notice they were naked until after a snake talked them into eating an apple. I like apples. I wonder what that says about me?
Bonnie, it's about disproving the "disprove-able." Think about it (but, of course, stop if it hurts).
Posted by: Rick020200 | December 7, 2008 12:17 AM
Please Bonnie, please. Bring the proof. Link to the websites with the proof. Start a letter writing campaign with the proof. Better yet, pray that God brings the proof himself.
We really, honestly, are not afraid. We just haven't seen the proof yet. In all our searching, in all our discussing, in all our debating, we've not been touched by the proof.
This is your chance Bonnie, to win thousands of converts. Show us the proof right here, and we'll gladly convert. Seriously.
Posted by: Ron Sullivan | December 7, 2008 12:17 AM
Apparently, if she's describing her position accurately, Bonnie's some sort of publicist.
I'm a journalist. A mere scrabbling freelancer, but it gets me onto publicists' mailing lists. I have good relationships with a handful of them because (choose one) they're interested in the same things I am and/or they know how to push my buttons. (And they're interesting people themselves. Amazing how far that goes.)
Even the ones who seem to contact me at random with news of really odd products that I want to write about because they're weird, ungainly or just ridiculous (and usually overpriced) AND who spell my name wrong--even those publicists are better at their jobs than Bonnie is. For one thing, she thinks she knows how to write. For another, she thinks a press release has import. For a third, she evidently misunderstands the relationship between journalists and publicity agents.
Oh yeah, and she misunderstands the weight of an "e-mail blitz." Pile on those feathers, Madam!
Posted by: Buzz Buzz | December 7, 2008 12:17 AM
I usually abstain from cursing here and elsewhere, but fuck me, what an ignorant fucking bimbo.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | December 7, 2008 12:18 AM
No, no, no. Encouraging people to write a bunch of fucking letters is exactly the sort of thing that Hitler did. I mean, do you not remember the campaign of letter writing he engaged in against Austria? Not to mention the fucking deluge of letters he had the Wehrmacht send to Czechoslovakia and Poland.
Posted by: Alligator | December 7, 2008 12:19 AM
Actually, there's this thing called the First Amendment. It provides constitutional protection for the expression of opinions, including disagreement with other people's arguments.
To be fair, the freedom to bully others isn't explicitly stated in the First Amendment. Bullying, however, can be another name for persuasion or argument and is thus part of everyone's right to freedom of speech (as long as it doesn't threaten violence).
Posted by: druidbros | December 7, 2008 12:20 AM
I vote for Thorazine !!!
Posted by: Melissa | December 7, 2008 12:24 AM
Man....they can never help using the Hitler reference...every goddamn time.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 12:24 AM
Looks like 6 paragraphs of "you don't let us have free reign, therefore you are an intolerant bigot".
Posted by: Steven Dunlap | December 7, 2008 12:26 AM
Yes, Mr. Hertz. And as a matter of fact those countries quickly collapsed under the weight of those long German words.
Posted by: druidbros | December 7, 2008 12:28 AM
Oh and Bonnie? You are a shit headed bigot. Stop trying to push your Bronze Age beliefs on others and trying to intimidate us. It wont work. And as for teaching your kids at home, please do. It will save the public school teacher the trouble of trying to deal with your little shithead instead of teaching science to other students. Not that it will matter much when your kids are working at the local Walmart.
Respectfully,
druidbros
Posted by: LiquidThinker | December 7, 2008 12:29 AM
So, Bonnie Cox would like to know what PZ Myers is afraid of. I obviously can't speak for the good professor, but Bonnie, I can tell you what I fear.
I fear that people with your mindset will not stop until they have relentlessly pushed into our science classrooms mythical nonsense. This will thereby reduce our population into stagnant scientific illiteracy exactly when we need clear evidence based thinking the most, to both solve the many problems ahead of us and to remain globally competitive.
In your letter, you demonstrate a profound willful ignorance concerning the scientific method in general, and of evolution specifically. This does not, by itself, make you a bad person, but the fact that you seem determined to infect others with this lazy and arrogant thinking is reprehensible and dangerous. Fortunately, along with Prof. Myers, I think it likely that this bark is worse than the bite.
Posted by: Gary | December 7, 2008 12:30 AM
Has anyone seen Bonnie lately?
Posted by: Rick020200 | December 7, 2008 12:30 AM
A quick Intertoobs search for "Bonnie Cox" reveals one interesting possibility: http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/9528/bonnie_kotch.html. She's "a free lance writer and commentator" and is affiliated with the Upper Crossroads Baptist Church.
Posted by: chuckbert | December 7, 2008 12:31 AM
There's a librarian affiliated with Univ of Kentucky called Bonnie Cox. If that's her then it's a bit of a worry that she knows so little about the post-enlightenment world.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | December 7, 2008 12:32 AM
She doesn't seem to have stuck around... $10 says she'll claim it was because some people on the thread used bad words.
Posted by: kapro | December 7, 2008 12:32 AM
You, madam, make a fool of yourself. Do you seriously believe that anyone worships Darwin? Are you parroting what you've been told by other fools? Darwin was no god, and we all know it.We Atheists are also pretty damn sure that your god, God, as well as the many other deities espoused by the other "one true religion(s)", does not exist; not because of the overwhelming evidence for evolution, but because of the total lack of evidence for all deities.
Instead of getting all of your information from the Creation Museum, right-wing radio hosts, and Fox News, I recommend actually reading some decent, scientific material on evolution before you go around proclaiming it a religion. You should be able to find plenty of material not only on the internet (Conservapedia does not count), but in your local library.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | December 7, 2008 12:38 AM
Please adjust spell check, Bonnie. For a publicity expert, you must at least realize that cities like to have their names spelled correctly.
Posted by: Mr Doubt(hell)fire | December 7, 2008 12:38 AM
Semi-OT: If you wanted to offend PZ, I don't think you could do a better job than what Vox Day is doing. (Note: the thread is particularly vile. I like how he says that 'Pharygulites can't get sex', yet he's unmarried, and with his viewpoints that 'women's rights should be eradicated', he's not going to get any...
Posted by: Molly, NYC | December 7, 2008 12:38 AM
Bonnie-- First of all, congratulations for showing up in the discussion thread. It shows gumption.
That said, wow! You're wrong about so many things, it's hard to know where to start.
First off, how on earth did you get the idea that Myers is a Marxist? I've been following this blog for over a year, and I don't remember him ever talking about economics or communism. Are you confusing it with his being an atheist?
Second, without you saying anything else about yourself, it's clear that your science background is close to zippola. There's nothing wrong with that--it's not most people's cup of tea.
What is wrong is that some horse's ass (or more likely, a team of horses' asses) has told you that scientists, who spend decades of their lives doing research, people who pay the rent by hitting a lab bench week in and week out, they don't know anything about science; oh no, guys with Bible college degrees, they're the ones you should listen to on scientific matters--and you actually buy it.
You don't have to be an expert yourself to know what an expert looks like. But you weighed the opinions of virtually every scientist in the world on a scientific matter against the opinions of people who, for the most part, know nothing about science and are only interested in it insofar as it interferes with their agenda of imposing their religious views on everything and everybody--and you not only picked the latter, you insist that they're the science experts. (1)
I wouldn't call you an idiot, but with regard to this matter, it would be hard to defend you against anyone who does.
Moreover, you insist that, despite the extremely slender acceptance of Creationism or ID (or whatever its supporters are pimping it out as this year) among real scientists, our limited public monies and resources should be devoted to its dissemination. In other words, you can't convince anyone who actually knows a thing or two about science, so you bad-mouth scientists, try to make your case to people who are too naive to know the difference (as was done to you)--and you want the rest of us to pay for it.
By the way: There are a lot of good reasons for a kid to be home-schooled. But if reason is for his parents to prevent the kid from learning things, it's what the rest of us call "being a dropout."
(1) I know that the DI has a list of so-called scientists who've signed on with them, but--no hyperbole--there's no one on it with a life-science degree who isn't either paid to support ID, or doing it for religious reasons, or both.
Posted by: Iason Ouabache | December 7, 2008 12:40 AM
I don't feel like reading all of that abortion of an e-mail. I got as far as the end of the third paragraph and saw (at least) 8 insults and 3 outright lies. Does she ever get around to saying anything worth reading?
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 7, 2008 12:41 AM
One more and I'm off for the night. Bonnie asked if we new what a hypocrite was. A hypocrite is a person who denies evolution, yet receives vaccinations and/or flu shots. That is a hypocrite.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | December 7, 2008 12:43 AM
Argh! "new" should be "knew", of course, stupid tired fingers.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 12:46 AM
Better yet, a hypocrite is someone who denounces science while sitting at a computer.Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 12:46 AM
Shit, that's not offensive beyond Vox Day being a total dumbass and having people that agree with him publicly on his blog. Vox Day is a wanna be grade school bully. Pretty typical tactics.
Have you seen his sword? oh scary.
And he talks about us not getting laid. Hilarious.
Posted by: Tony Pelliccio | December 7, 2008 12:46 AM
Please I beseech you, give us her email address.
She cannot form a coherent sentence and she does PR. That gave me a very big laugh.
You have every right to try and block those two entities from doing any cross promotion.
Posted by: BobC | December 7, 2008 12:47 AM
From Bonnie's email: Evolution is a failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested.
Everyone here knows evolution is the strongest fact of science, and everyone here knows evolution has been tested for 150 years.
Bonnie's misconceptions about evolution are about average for American Christians. Most Americans know next to nothing about evolution, but they do know evolution is the greatest possible threat to their religion. Their solution is to deny it, or accept it if they can invoke their magic fairy to guide it. I suggest the only possible way to get Americans to be more scientifically literate is to first somehow eradicate Christianity. That sounds impossible but if America doesn't rid itself of this medieval religion it will forever be a backward 3rd world country.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 12:49 AM
I suppose if they repeat the mantra long enough, it'll become dogma.Posted by: Jason A. | December 7, 2008 12:52 AM
The cognitive dissonance required to say something like 'neither of us can prove we're right, so lets just study both!' then in the very next sentence call evolution a failure... I really have a hard time just understanding how these people think.
No Bonnie, I'm not surprised you have an opinion. What I'm surprised about is that you think it's worth a shit.
I think these people just can't grasp the concept that people might think differently than them. They worship a god, so obviously we must worship a god too. Must be Darwin! They're afraid of us, so obviously we're afraid of them.
"I'm not pissed, I'm just unimpressed" - Devin Townsend.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 12:54 AM
For some people, but her problem, and those of the Fox News commentators you refer to, is not lack of social skills but arguing, thinking, and living "in bad faith."
Posted by: RamblinDude | December 7, 2008 12:54 AM
Woo hoo! We're going big guns now!
Go ahead lady; bring a shitload of publicity to this site. Let's get this "Controversy" out in the open and talked about by millions. Or don't you realize that that's the plan? For people who are actually educated and intelligent to shine a lot of big, bright lights on your absurd medieval beliefs and ridicule the hell out of them for all the world to see?
Hey, maybe you will even learn what science is!
Do you know what an Apostate is? How about a Heretic?
I can't read that without cracking up. It's like there is a time portal open somewhere, and people from the 12th century keep popping up.
Posted by: leftystrat | December 7, 2008 12:56 AM
One thing that I always get from these reactionary diatribes -
I get to FEEL the LOVE.
Do you FEEL it?
I say DO YOU FEEL IT?
-------------------------------------
Definition of cult:
The other guy's religion
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 12:57 AM
fixed
Posted by: Rick020200 | December 7, 2008 12:58 AM
Mr Doubt(hell)fire @ #99: You suckered me into clicking that link. Teh stoopid. It burns!
Posted by: Jason A. | December 7, 2008 12:59 AM
Haha, I thought it was funny too. I imagined her leading a group wearing dark hoods and carrying torches.
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 7, 2008 1:00 AM
Here's a Bonnie Cox commenting in response to someone who has written on "Under God" in the Pledge ("... The Pledge of Allegiance should omit the phrase "Under God" in order to embrace all of the faiths or lack thereof that compose the melting pot that we all call home: America..."):
Not only are you disillusioned, you are running a circular argument. You are searching for unity in individualism when the two cannot co-exist. You also have absolutely no understanding in what our fore-fathers envisioned for this country. It certainly isn't what is going on today. Following your suggestions would lead our country to anarchy and division. We have an identity and you want to obliterate it. bulldozing the rights of the majority at the bequest of the minorities is not democracy, and it is in no way how our country is supposed to work.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/213428/how_does_the_phrase_under_god_live.html
Sounds like the same nut.
Posted by: Rick020200 | December 7, 2008 1:02 AM
OT: I just made some bumper stickers to mock the whole "God is Love" notion based on bible citations. I wrote about my inspiration here.
Posted by: PZ Myers | December 7, 2008 1:06 AM
Oh, no. Vox Day has unveiled my deep dark secret: I'm a virgin.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 1:06 AM
Oh those are good. Subtle, but for those in the know, both atheists and bible studiers, good stuff.
Posted by: Brian's A Wild Downer | December 7, 2008 1:09 AM
Rev. BigDumbChimp, I think that by considering all religions cults you're committing the fallacy of the false continuum. Just because the difference is subtle doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 1:09 AM
What a way for your kids to find out you aren't their real Dad :PPosted by: Andy James | December 7, 2008 1:11 AM
This particular little christian ghoul was appropriately named, Cocks. I mean Cox. If only these creeps possessed even a nano-scale sense of irony she would shudder into pieces at the thought of having composed such a confused scrawling.
Bonnie Cocks' work is the best intellectualism Christianity as to offer. And its the best reason to keep fighting them.
Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 1:11 AM
My Gay friends tell me that most Irishmen have Bonnie Cox indeed.
Posted by: Freelancer | December 7, 2008 1:12 AM
One thing you have to give Bonnie, she, like Affleck, has Olbermann's sophisticated outrage and inflection down pat.
This reads like some loony bin content version of one of his Special Comments.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 1:12 AM
Just because it is in the definition of false continuum you say I'm committing it?
What the hell?!?!?!?
Posted by: ishi | December 7, 2008 1:12 AM
Darwin is my god?
... does that mean that, as I'm actively contributing to evolution through my pregnancy, I don't have to pay taxes 'cause I'm sort of a church? That seems to be about as logical as any argument Bonnie put forth.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 1:16 AM
This is simply false.
...it makes the pray-er feel foolish.
Posted by: Robin | December 7, 2008 1:19 AM
If there's one thing I've learned from this already, it's that when you google "'bonnnie cox' god" you learn that there are more than 1 of them. Including one with a myspace page of her rockin' Christian band. And by "rockin'" I mean "This computer doesn't have speakers."
Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 1:20 AM
#124
Bwahahaha, that made me laugh. She also shares Olbermann's affection for words in abundance.
If some words are good, a shitload of them must be fantastic!!!
Posted by: Robin | December 7, 2008 1:26 AM
Also? She claims: "I know how to write a press release and I know how to advertise. That's my business."
PLEASE let this be the right Bonnie Cox: http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Does-Belief-in-Christ-and-the-Bible-Help-Us-Through-Life?&id=1450613
If it's the right one, then it's clear to me you were right not to publish her email headers. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Posted by: Teh Merkin | December 7, 2008 1:27 AM
You are close, very close...
Posted by: Jason A. | December 7, 2008 1:27 AM
CalGeorge #116:
The best arguments for god are the ones that have nothing to do with god. We should believe in god because... it gives us a strong national identity? *scratch head*
I think Bonnie might be a bit confused in the belief that she supports a democracy:
"Plato claimed that even though this would be false, if the people believed it, then an orderly society would result... Plato preferred this to the concept of democracy which he called mob rule."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie
Of course there's a major distinction between Plato, who advocated founding the lie, and Bonnie who has simply fallen for the lie. One is dishonest, the other is ignorant.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 1:29 AM
I think he's realized that returning women to de facto slavery is the only way he COULD get any.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 1:35 AM
@ 111,
Unfortunately for the rest of the world they have nuclear bombs.
Posted by: Blue-eyed Vidiot | December 7, 2008 1:35 AM
Please, good Dr., I'm begging you. Release them headers!
Posted by: Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker | December 7, 2008 1:39 AM
Posted by: PZ Myers | December 7, 2008
Oh, no. Vox Day has unveiled my deep dark secret: I'm a virgin.
I would not expect it any other way. After all, use of your Trophy Wife causes wear and tear. I would except you keep her safe in her original packaging.
Back to the main topic, is there anything in Bonnie Cox's screed that is correct?
Posted by: freelancer | December 7, 2008 1:43 AM
@ 129,
Thanks,
I love the guy, but he can be grating. Still I'd rather having him on my side than arguing against me. (In that respect, he is in the same venn diagram[izzard reference] as Hitchens.I tried to make Olbermann hip, even perhaps with broad appeal; with mixed results.
(Scroll to the bottom, and click on any of the tracks at the bottom media player. "we have caught you/ crazed/ vietnam redux)
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 1:46 AM
well there is this
Posted by: Voltaire Kinison | December 7, 2008 1:47 AM
Bonnie, yes Darwin is dead. But unlike your Jewish Zombie God, there is evidence he actually existed.
Posted by: Miguel | December 7, 2008 1:48 AM
Which includes, of course, "FSM did it!". I'm sure you always give equal time to discussions about the FSM (and evolution!) at your cherch gatherings. So even though you think evolution is a fairy tale you still want to talk about it?? (Of course, you can talk about creationism, and we equally have the right to point out that it's a myth with no scientific basis. None. Zero. Zip.)Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 1:50 AM
Robin @ 130 PLEASE let this be the right Bonnie Cox
hmmmm, the Cox you are pulling out it the link seems pretty whiney and flacid compared to the Cox we have here in this thread, far more rigid and ters....
Oh never mind, it's just tooooo easy
Posted by: BobC | December 7, 2008 1:51 AM
Yes. I found one correct sentence.
I would like to point out to you, Mr. Myers, that you are not the only one who runs a blog, and you are not the only one who can write.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 1:53 AM
one too many letters?
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 1:57 AM
How does this woman's brain even manage to form human speech?
All her threatening rant has managed to prove is that she is desperately in need of an education, and quite possibly the help of a team of qualified mental health professionals.
Did she make even one factual statement in the entire length of her dubious correspondence? I should re-read it to make sure, but I'm not keen to make another copy of it in my brain.
Posted by: Copache/Motley | December 7, 2008 2:01 AM
I would like to note that I am home schooled and not an idiot. I would also like to note that these results are not typical and home schooling is overtly a bad, bad thing and should be banned. But not until around June of next year when I'm done with High-Home-School.
I will say in defense of the letter from Mrs. Cox, I didn't get to criticize it all too much because I was too busy saying "oh ho ho" every time her ignorance was showing. As you can imagine my parents must think I've morphed into Santa Claus or some shit, which all the same is about right for the moment because her email sure made me jolly.
Posted by: Steve | December 7, 2008 2:02 AM
Why can't critical thinking and logic (as well as writing) be a requirement in our schools? This woman is proof positive that the schools she has attended have failed her miserably. Perhaps she only dun her readin' an cipherin' at wun of them home schools.
If the U of M administration reads this, let me say this: PZ MYERS IS A TREASURE. Having such a well spoken, knowledgeable, and dynamic proponent of real science is something you shouldn't throw away, no matter how many angry letters you get.
Posted by: John Morales | December 7, 2008 2:12 AM
BobC @142, Rev BDC @138, the sentence might be correct, but the notion that it needed to be pointed out was wrong.
Posted by: Bouncing Bosons | December 7, 2008 2:13 AM
97% of the country is christian? That's ridiculous and is clear evidence that 87.385% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 2:13 AM
good point
Posted by: Erin | December 7, 2008 2:15 AM
Wow, a Creationist afraid of something she doesn't understand? Never seen that one before. And...by the way, I don't know if anyone noticed, but she basically admitting that you can't prove there's a God.
But she still believes in the mythical being because he's most commonly used as a scape goat.
*Sigh* How I wish more of the world was Marxist. This whole belief that the Commies are out to get us and that there's terrorists inside my toothbrush has got to go. We're afraid of our own shadow! You wanna know what I'm afraid of?
Extreme radical Christians/Creationists like Bonnie and her no-doubt brainwashed brood.
Watch Jesus Camp, you see why the Christians should never be put into power.
-Erin
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 2:24 AM
Christian persecution complex posts in 3...2...1...
Youre right,but this doesnt apply to Christians only,if you look at the world as a whole,the trouble is always where religionists are in power.
Posted by: Ouchimoo | December 7, 2008 2:32 AM
All I got out of this letter was:
Bla - projection, projection, bla bla bla, projection projection, threaten mass mail dump on University, bla bla - projection etc.
Really PZ your poor school! I wonder how many letters they have to go through because of you :P.
Posted by: Capital Dan | December 7, 2008 2:36 AM
Man... Religion really fucks people up, and email makes them brave.
Posted by: Leigh Williams | December 7, 2008 2:38 AM
BobC: "Bonnie's misconceptions about evolution are about average for American Christians."
Hell, no. As another poster pointed out, the percentage of Christians who belong to evolution-denying sects is far tinier than this moron Bonnie thinks.
And Vox Dey, what a putz. As is typical of such a mysognistic little shit, he doesn't recognize that a whole bunch of us here are WOMEN.
But I can't waste any more time on the internet; Mr. Science is waiting for me in bed.
Posted by: Valis | December 7, 2008 2:45 AM
@Molly #100; Most excellent comment!
Are we voting for the Molly's yet? In any case, I would like to nominate Molly for a Molly ;-)
Posted by: fly44d | December 7, 2008 2:54 AM
"@Molly #100; Most excellent comment! "
I second that nomination.
Good job Molly!
Posted by: BobC | December 7, 2008 3:09 AM
That may be true for the entire world, but in America the latest polls show that only 14% of the population accepts evolution without invoking Mr. God to guide it. That's not much more than the percent of Americans who are atheists. I personally don't think a person can call himself scientifically literate if he invokes supernatural magic to guide evolution.
About half of America completely rejects evolution, preferring to believe every creature (and the entire universe) was magically created a few thousand years ago.
So yes, you are correct, but if you count only American Christians, Bonnie's ignorance is equal to at least half of the Christian population.
Posted by: reindeer386sx | December 7, 2008 3:14 AM
We have proof that he is dead. Mine is not. You have no proof that he doesn't exist. You won't let anyone try to prove it, which I guess answers what you are afraid of. Let the kids discuss it professor. What are you afraid ot? Research is the mother of discovery.
How is creationism supposed to prove that God isn't dead? Seems like kind of a giant leap in logic.
It's already a big enough leap to say that creationism is proof of a God. And then an even bigger leap to say that creationism is proof of Jesus Christ! That's a lot of really big leaps!
Posted by: CodeSculptor | December 7, 2008 3:23 AM
So, Bonnie was right on every point except for the minor disciplines as :
science,
politics,
the scientific method,
evolution,
statistics,
America,
religion,
demographics,
PZ,
spelling,
rhetoric,
history,
Darwin,
debate, truth, honesty, honour,
and reality.
Reading her diatribe, I feel the need to get my apostate checked.
Posted by: DrFish | December 7, 2008 3:27 AM
Part of me hopes that Christians are at least partially correct and that there is indeed an afterlife. Of course, I hope that there are an infinite number of afterlives, one for each worldview. That way, people like Bonnie can sit around for eternity in their afterlife, lets call it heaven, telling each other how right they were, listening to the kind of stories that make you guiltily relieved when an older relative passes, never growing in any way, and probably boring the G-man half to death.
My afterlife would be full of scientists, and I could catch a lecture by Darwin in the Galapagos Islands, stroll around a black hole with Stephen Hawking, or chase pesky electrons with Werner Heisenberg. In this heaven, knowledge would still be something that had to be gained, but sequencing would be free, cloning (the "I need a haplotype from a nuclear locus" kind, not the Dolly the sheep kind) would be unnecessary, and I could go to any point in the evolution of life in order to collect specimens.
Funny how I am trying to do my best to make my life on Earth, the only life I expect to get, as close to my vision of a perfect afterlife as possible, while some extremist Christians, I can only assume YEC folk included, have stated their goal to be making life on Earth bad enough for their god to kill me and prove them right. Nothing says piety like wishing for genocide. Humanity needs to grow up.
Posted by: reindeer386sx | December 7, 2008 3:28 AM
You won't let anyone try to prove it, which I guess answers what you are afraid of.
Hey Bonnie, I thought you said that nobody could prove it. You said that nobody could prove evolution or creation. "You can't prove evolution and you can't prove creation. No one can." Your letter is really really confusing. Sorry!
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 3:29 AM
It's kind of a blight on popularising science when less than 15% of the population believes what over 99% of scientists do. Where has the scientific establishment gone wrong?Posted by: MikeM | December 7, 2008 3:34 AM
Bonnie, I could just feel your face getting redder and redder. I really enjoy that feeling. Thank you.
I took my son to his visitation day at our local excellent Middle School on Wednesday. Now, I hate doing this, but I have to make sure... I like the science teacher, and apoligetically asked, "You don't go in for that ID crap, do you? I have to ask, even though I think I know the answer."
He gave the right answer. Bonnie, you have access to excellent science teachers, too. Stop pretending Genesis is on par with Darwin's theories and talk to one of these teachers. That's my advice.
Unless you prefer to know that imagining you getting redder and redder is giving me a massive hard-on. Keep goin', babe!
Posted by: MikeM | December 7, 2008 3:36 AM
"Apologetically". There, fixed.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 3:42 AM
She's probably right in saying her god isn't dead. It never existed, so there's nothing to have died; ergo, it isn't dead.
Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 3:44 AM
BobC @ 157in America the latest polls show that only 14% of the population accepts evolution without invoking Mr. God to guide it.
Polls are weird especially on a subject as complex as Evolution. It made perfect sense to me first time I heard it, maybe 7 yrs old, totally obvious.
As I got older I learned a bit more. Then I encountered Gould's articles in Nature, and read them whenever a Nature was laying around.
At this point, I became an EXPERT compared to average educated American adults. Then Ben Stein did EXPELLED, and I started reading this blog, where I am a complete idiot on the subject, so it's a question of degree.
It's not hard to confound secular educated Americans on the subject of evolution. You could skew a poll 40% by changing a word or two.
I hate to apolgize for ignorance, but as that old propagandist, Walter Cronkite used to say, "And that's the way it is"
Posted by: Holydust | December 7, 2008 3:54 AM
Is Bonnie aware that NOT A SINGLE OF THE COMBO TICKETS WAS SOLD before the letter-writing campaign closed the pairing down?
Hateful, sheltered little bint.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:03 AM
I agree with Bonnie. It should not be your job to try to sanitize the world of religion.
If people want to learn about science that is fine, but people should not be forced into what you want.
There are over 300 million people in the USA alone. It's not all about you.
People can learn science and religion on their own without you trying to sanitize it for them.
This is why we have FREEDOM and not a POLICE STATE.
Posted by: SamuelP | December 7, 2008 4:06 AM
I love when christians bring up marxism - that jesus fellow was the biggest socialist of the ancient world - jesus=immoral
Posted by: Peter Kemp (Aussie Lawyer) | December 7, 2008 4:06 AM
Indeed Bonny. It's getting the testiculars out of a theistic vice.
Chances are the Christians who believe Bonny's crap probably wouldn't qualify for the sciences there--Creationism 101 just doesn't cut the mustard as a prerequisite methinks.
OTOH, there may be a simple one question test PZ could use for admission of "recovering" creationist students to Biology 101 (which also of course must have great therapeutic/rehabilitative value):
Q: What is common to birds nests and the creationist mind?
A: Both consist of shit and sticks.
:-)
Posted by: KR | December 7, 2008 4:08 AM
Oh my. The horrible Vox Day appears to be using "autism" as an insult. Talk about ignorant bigots...
And from Vox Day's comment thread:
Earrings and makeup? Sign. Me. Up.
Nothing like eyeliner and piercings for seducing us dirty, nerdy young'uns.
(P.S. I think the guy he's describing sits in front of me in Ancient Civilizations 230, so he's only a little off; it's college, not high school. Still... Yes, please.)
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | December 7, 2008 4:09 AM
*Snicker* "Delusions of competence." I'm gonna use that in the future.
Anyway, WAS Hitler your mentor? You were suspiciously quiet on this point. I noticed you completely avoided the question. SHOW US THE PAPERWORK!
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:10 AM
"Bonnie, yes Darwin is dead. But unlike your Jewish Zombie God, there is evidence he actually existed."
Yeah and 2000 years from now, there will be no evidence to prove the Holocaust really happened either.
So, what exactly is your point?
Posted by: Bjørn Østman | December 7, 2008 4:18 AM
Bonnie, just do it!!! I want to see it done. I want to see [all sorts of hilarious effects censored because of the slight chance that you would't do it because I wrote it, which I didn't].
As for lemmings, I resent that comment. I have much higher respect for Lemmus lemmus (wiki) than most people. Lemmings are great, and thoroughly misunderstood.
To PZ: You science posts are great, but let's not forget that Bonnie and her ilk is the fuel that runs this blog. Thanks for posting.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | December 7, 2008 4:19 AM
#173
Yeah, you're totally right there, KC. There won't be ANY evidence at all. Not one bit. Not even a picture. You're just too clever. You've thought of everything! Your argument is rock solid! Your intellect humbles us all!
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:21 AM
Surefire way to know someone is not part of the scientific community is when they are under the impression, "Evolution is on its last legs." I have run into these people many times, and they seriously think the scientific community gave up on evolution years ago, but liberal atheists are attempting to hide that, "fact."
One guy I knew at school was a creationist Catholic, and he thought the above. What you need to do for these Catholic Creationists is to ask them to name any Catholic University. Then google their science courses and show them what is taught in their biology courses. It is fun to watch their worlds fall apart...
(And yes, he was a Catholic creationist, and he even tried to argue with a Lutheran I knew that, even though she was not a creationist, he had to be, as all Catholics are Creationists, even if Lutherans were not...I kid you not on this)
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 7, 2008 4:21 AM
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008
Yeah and 2000 years from now, there will be no evidence to prove the Holocaust really happened either.
Highly speculative there. You are assuming that many thousands if not millions of pieces of primary material will be gone. There are reasons why we know the certain parts of Roman, Greek, Chinese and Indian history happened is because it was recorded by people and there are collaborating evidence.
There is now prove that the Holocaust happened and two thousand years from now, there will be enough prove to proof such an ancient event.
So what is your point? I suggest you check with the Sunshine Band.
Posted by: Dust | December 7, 2008 4:23 AM
KC@ 173Yeah and 2000 years from now, there will be no evidence to prove the Holocaust really happened either.
Logical fallacy; strawman argument.
Fail
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | December 7, 2008 4:26 AM
I'm eagerly waiting for KC to take what I said sarcastically in my last comment and take it literally, adding a smug "Thank you, I agree."
That will be awesome. It will completely shut me up, that's for sure! I would think it would be safe to call it "complete ownage" on his part. I just wish someone would take his witticisms and put them on a t-shirt! I'd buy one!
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:32 AM
"Highly speculative there. You are assuming that many thousands if not millions of pieces of primary material will be gone. There are reasons why we know the certain parts of Roman, Greek, Chinese and Indian history happened is because it was recorded by people and there are collaborating evidence."
Highly speculative? Are you aware of what is going on with this planet?
We have become a lot more destructive and it is unlikely that we will make it 2000 years into the future without either destroying ourselves with our own weapons or getting killed by mother nature in the future (asteroids, global warming, natural disasters).
Books and things will degrade over time or get burnt up.
2000 years ia a long time and a lot of things can degrade as the history channel showed (life without people series).
We only know bits a pieces from the roman times and their library was burnt to the ground and we lost a huge amount of information and knowledge. The same thing is going to happen again as history repeats itself.
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:35 AM
I guess you people also doubt that Osiris was killed by his evil brother Set, and cut-up and thrown into the Nile, only to have most of his pieces later found and put back together by the animals of the river and his sister/wife, Isis, who, because of the still missing male genitalia, had to carve a new penis out of wood so she could get pregnant and give birth to Horus their son...
Anyone guess when Horus's birthday was celebrated?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:37 AM
KC said:
"their library"
Um....?
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 7, 2008 4:38 AM
So we know nothing about the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire.
Yes, lots of information was lost over the centuries. But not all.
Once more, what is your point?
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:39 AM
"Yeah, you're totally right there, KC. There won't be ANY evidence at all. Not one bit. Not even a picture. You're just too clever. You've thought of everything! Your argument is rock solid! Your intellect humbles us all!"
When you can't respond with an intelligent comment, then try to belittle a person.
Let me give you some social advice. Don't try this same technique in person.
Posted by: negentropyeater | December 7, 2008 4:39 AM
Bingo, we got a winner, it has them all :
1. Spelling mistake on surname (Ham, not Hamm)
2. False statistics (78% Christian, not 97%)
3. mentions "Hitler was your mentor"
4. .."you have no RIGHT to ..."
5. .."your hatred of people of faith (or variation thereof)"
6. add "intolerance" to 5.
6. .."Thank God my Children ..."
7. requests freedom to investgate all arguments
8. .."You can't prove evolution"
9. repeat accusations of intolerance
10. add "bigotry" to 9.
11. add "marxism" to 9.
12. .."You're not the only one who can write"
13. .."I'm not a professor, but I'm a marketing exec therefore I'm qualified"
14.add "endoctrination of Children" to 9.
15. repeat accusation of "marxism"
16. .."Evolution is a failed hypothesis"
17. .."Evolution cannot be scientifically tested"
18. .."most Scientists know 16. & 17."
19. mentions the "death throes" of evolution
20. .."Darwin is your God"
21. .."you have no proof that God doesn't exist"
22. gives advice on how to perform research
23. repeat again accusations of "marxism"
24. repeat same false statistics several times
25. .."God Bless You"
4 pts each = 100 / 100
Posted by: cl | December 7, 2008 4:39 AM
Bonnie,
If you really wish to persuade people of any stripe of your position, a few quotes seem peculiarly appropriate:
Also,
Also, note the unbiblical nature of your '97% Christian' argument - the Bible clearly says the vast majority of people will not be believers, that many would say 'Lord, Lord' and not make the cut. 97% hardly seems like a narrow path.
Comments #25 and #37 also seem especially relevant.
Posted by: Stephen Couchman | December 7, 2008 4:40 AM
@105
Ah, something on Pharyngula I'm technically qualified to comment on. That sword, ladies and gentlemen, is a fifty-dollar-or-less novelty catalog prop favored by the sort of person who shows up at living history events wrapped in a tablecloth, beer stein in hand and expectant of sexual favors, to sneer at reenactors who do real research and wear meticulous period regalia. A perfect parallel for the evolution-creation "debate" if I've ever heard one, and a telling revelation about this Pox Day asshat.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 4:44 AM
And contacting a group to express your disapproval of their proposed business decisions threatens their freedom... how exactly?
Posted by: Nick Gotts | December 7, 2008 4:45 AM
When exactly did "marxist" become the buzzword insult of choice among the right? Do any of these people actually know what a marxist is? - Pustilio
First time I heard it much (but I'm in Scotland, so this is largely from the web) was in this year's Presidential campaign, where it was one of the epithets thrown at Obama. Maybe the right were getting worried many people weren't reacting negatively, as expected, to "liberal" or even "socialist"? Some of the right certainly know what a Marxist is, as you find not a few ex-Marxists among the neo-cons, and I'd guess the "libertarians".
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:45 AM
KC said: "Let me give you some social advice. Don't try this same technique in person. "
Trust me, I do not back off from pointing out just how stupid comments are to people in person. I doubt many here stop as well.
The fact is we are so used to people making comments like yours that are so lacking in logic and supporting evidence that, after a while, we tend to just make fun of them because we know everyone else reading knows the flaws of your argument just as much as we do ourselves.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | December 7, 2008 4:45 AM
#184
"When you can't respond with an intelligent comment, then try to belittle a person."
Oh, I'm sorry. In that case, feel free to start making intelligent statements and I'll respond in kind.
Because based on your previous comments, it seemed like you were talking out of your ass and having fun, so I thought I'd go ahead and show you the same respect.
Or maybe you just operate on a different kind of social level than the rest of us. If a stranger accosts you on the street and starts asserting that you're a giant purple crocodile, do you patiently and kindly offer up all the evidence that shows you are NOT, in fact, a giant purple crocodile?
Or, if you're being honest (indeed, if you CAN be honest) do you rightfully assume that he's either an idiot, a madman, or just someone pulling your leg and respond appropriately?
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 7, 2008 4:45 AM
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:39 AM
When you can't respond with an intelligent comment, then try to belittle a person.
You are making the assumption that your first comment had any intelligence behind it.
Posted by: Miranda Hale | December 7, 2008 4:46 AM
Holy crap. Wow. And 97%? ORLY? Sigh.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:50 AM
Militant Atheist todo list:
1) Mock people because you have no social skills and can't communicate in a proper fashion.
2) Make fun of religion because it is fun to do and screw people's rights, they are not intelligent enough to handle their rights.
3) Beat on your chest and show how you have the biggest brain on the block!
4) Try to show off evolution because nothing else exists in life besides self.
5) Try to show off that you care about yourself and nobody else.
6) Talk about evolution again and how everyone else is stupid but you and how you are more educated and more intelligent than anyone else.
7) Show off how you can be an asshole to anyone else who might have a different view than you. Well, because nobody else can match your brain size.
8) Masturbate at how big your brain is.
9) Disrespect other people because of a lack of social skills and attack people for being idiots.
10) Talk about how everyone else is stopping your freedom of speech because you are more intelligent than anyone else. Not to mention that your attacking people and being a total douchebag and expect people just to accept you being an asshole.
11) Talk about evolution some more and how your brain and asshole have evolved over billions of years. Must be a reason why both have evolved.
12) Go back to Step one (but before that maturbate again to how big your brain is).
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:52 AM
KC
If you want to understand why people are making fun of you, then please explain what you meant by:
KC said: "We only know bits a pieces from the roman times and their library was burnt to the ground"
You may find everyone in here sees about a hundred flaws with the above statement. See how many you can find!
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 4:56 AM
OT
Aussies: Docu on the Dover trial on SBS now !
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 4:56 AM
KC..
You really seem into talking about masturbation, huh? So KC, before God, please tell me..have you ever masturbated, and about what?
We "A" people obviously masturbate over our big sexy brains...
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 7, 2008 4:56 AM
With KC's post at 194, I now get the point. KC is not here for a discussion. KC is here to show KC's moral superiority.
And just to point this out but Christians did most of the destruction of historical material. MASTURBATE to that.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 4:57 AM
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008
Yeah and 2000 years from now, there will be no evidence to prove the Holocaust really happened either.
Is that a threat?
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 4:57 AM
Take KC's list@194 and...
s/Militant Atheist/religion of your choice/
Are there any other changes to be made or is it an essentially perfect projection?
Posted by: negentropyeater | December 7, 2008 4:59 AM
He doesn't need to try when the person has already belittled himself...
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 4:59 AM
We are the atheists mastutbation soceity. We masturbate to ourselfs daily.
Now, let us all suck dicks.
All the religious people in the world must be bow down to our superior dick sucking abilities!
We atheists are the new militant cock suckers of the world!
We are not just ordinary cocksuckers, we are the most intelligent cocksuckers in the world!
We don't need a degree to show our intelligence, we don't need an IQ test. We just need to show that we can suck a cock and be (umm) fill an asshole!
We don't care about anyone else's rights. Screw the rights of the common man. We are evolved cocksuckers and thus are better than the common man!
Posted by: John Morales | December 7, 2008 4:59 AM
KC @194, you probably consider that a witty and intelligent comment; you probably don't think it's hypocritical, either.
Sad.
Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 5:00 AM
Ohhh brother,
these fucking martyr wannabe self inflicted cross nail ups are the worst hypocrites.
They are constantly on the assault against businesses who sponsor television programs they do not approve of, and flood the FCC with form letters over Janet Jackson's boob, or a flash of ass-crack, or Family Guy, you name it.
They lead wave after wave of letter writing campaigns to underwriters, TV stations, especially PBS, they try that shit on our radio station all the time, but ooops, no underwriters no sponsors, sorry Christards.
Gore their little ass-Ham, and suddenly it's NO FAIR!!!
fucking cry-babies
Posted by: Rey Fox | December 7, 2008 5:01 AM
Hmm, I see we have another poor sexually confused theist here.
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 7, 2008 5:02 AM
So, besides being rather on the dim side, KC is also homophobic. Color me shocked.
Posted by: scooter | December 7, 2008 5:04 AM
sounds like somebody needs a blow job
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:04 AM
KC, I am serious...If you want to discuss things, then please explain what you meant by:
KC said: "We only know bits a pieces from the roman times and their library was burnt to the ground"
Let us debate what is right and wrong here. Let us see how much you really know about of which you speak..
Posted by: jornin | December 7, 2008 5:04 AM
@KC 168
"I agree with Bonnie."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So do you think PZ is a marxist? Or that 97% of the population is Christian? Or that "Evolution is a failed hypothesis"? You're not going to have much fun around here.
"It should not be your job to try to sanitize the world of religion."
There is a joke about toilets in there somewhere, but it's to late and I can't think of a good one. Maybe a witty comment about Robert Mapplethorpe.
"There are over 300 million people in the USA alone. It's not all about you."
That's kind of the point. If you, Bonnie, the DI, Ken Ham, Bill Donohoe and the rest of your friends payed any attention, that is exactly what we have been telling you. It's not all about your beliefs. Many people find your beliefs ignorant and offensive. So keep them out of the government, and keep them out of the schools. This isn't all about you.
"This is why we have FREEDOM and not a POLICE STATE."
You're right there, kinda sucks for you and Bonnie. Can't lock up all the blasphemers with that pesky concept of freedom in the way.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:04 AM
"tell me..have you ever masturbated, and about what?
We "A" people obviously masturbate over our big sexy brains..."
yeah, I masturbated about you and your mom.
Posted by: Missus Gumby | December 7, 2008 5:07 AM
December 25th?Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:07 AM
"sounds like somebody needs a blow job"
Pull down your pants, bitch.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 5:09 AM
Is it just me, or are others also imagining KC as having to stop every few minutes to wipe the spittle (at least) from his screen and keyboard?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:09 AM
"December 25th? "
Good Dooby!!!
Posted by: negentropyeater | December 7, 2008 5:10 AM
looks like KC is losing it...
Advice to KC : click on the red tab with a white X in the upper right corner of your screen, drink a large glass of milk and calm down.
Posted by: MickyW | December 7, 2008 5:10 AM
"You just wait and see what's going to happen. Do you know what an Apostate is? How about a Heretic?"
Yet another Christian clearly enjoying the prospect of us all burning in hell.
Well, just as she thanks PZ for driving people into homeschooling and the church to escape the scary Marxists, let me just say a big thank-you Bonnie, for being the type of Christian that drove me and many others away from the church.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:10 AM
"It's not all about your beliefs. Many people find your beliefs ignorant and offensive."
A lot of people including myself think your beliefs are ignorant and offensive. So fuck off.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | December 7, 2008 5:10 AM
Why can't critical thinking and logic (as well as writing) be a requirement in our schools? - Steve
That would hardly do: people might start questioning the distribution of wealth and power.
Posted by: jornin | December 7, 2008 5:11 AM
"yeah, I masturbated about you and your mom."
Yea but what we really want to know is do you rub one off while thinking about Bonnie Cox?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:11 AM
"Is it just me, or are others also imagining KC as having to stop every few minutes to wipe the spittle (at least) from his screen and keyboard?"
Hey leave the guy alone. According to him he is busy masturbating over me and my mom...
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 5:13 AM
To quote Emmet Caulfield :
We've got ourselves a life one !!!
Ahem,I need much more alcohol to contemplate that.But sounds like fun.
I will have to research this persecution complex thing.It amazes me.Almost like a freudian reflex,like Kryptonite against Superman,its the christians passepartout !
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 5:13 AM
Thank Mithras for KC! The luls unending!! HA HA HAHAhahahaha
i love how you automatically assume humanity will wipe itself out in the next 2000 years, when the ones who would likely accomplish such a feat are dictator theocrats. Sans religion, most of the venom is gone from their fangs. People will not cease to be assholes- and oh yes, i do identify with that statement (as a proper atheist and taurus HA HA HAhah- oh, i digress)- but the world will be so much simpler without nearly as many outright hypocrites and moral absolutionists clogging up the works...Whoops, is my nihilistic optimism showing again? ;)
Posted by: jornin | December 7, 2008 5:16 AM
I know we shouldn't be feeding this one, but I'm thinking we can make his head exploded if we keep it up.
Was he really offering oral sex for atheists in @212?
Go to bed KC.
Posted by: John Morales | December 7, 2008 5:16 AM
Wow. Even the basics of a decent retort are beyond KC. Why am I not surprised? ;)KC, Scooter meant you, not himself...
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:18 AM
Yea but what we really want to know is do you rub one off while thinking about Bonnie Cox?
Well she does have the name COX. While you are at it, why don't you try sucking my dick. You might learn something, you little twat.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:18 AM
it took this loon only three paragraphs to violate Godwin's law.
teh stoopid burns!!!
Posted by: Claudia | December 7, 2008 5:18 AM
KC degenerated pretty quickly... He/she has no staying power. And to be fair, Lago, you and your mom are pretty hot.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 5:21 AM
You mean to fulfil Godwin's law?
And yes,KC is a disappointing troll.
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:21 AM
"And to be fair, Lago, you and your mom are pretty hot."
No need to tell me, I am currently masturbating over my big scarlet "A" brain as we speak!
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 5:21 AM
Now that KC is officially frothing at the mouth, having surpassed even Bonnie's demonstrably stupid assertions, perhaps it's a good time to attempt to convert the troll to worship C'thulu. One creepy mythos deserves another. =)
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 5:22 AM
leave [ KC ] alone. According to him he is busy masturbating over me and my mom
Well, given the truthfulness and plausibility of KC's other claims, I suspect neither you nor your mom has anything to be concerned about. Other than association with someone who is so truthful and plausible, that is.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:22 AM
hey kc. prove to me right now that god exists. any way you can.
I'll await your evidence patiently.
I guess I won't be sleeping tonight.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:24 AM
KC degenerated pretty quickly... He/she has no staying power. And to be fair, Lago, you and your mom are pretty hot.
Your right, I came! I came for largo and his mom.
Posted by: Kelly | December 7, 2008 5:24 AM
The thing that gets me is that these people will count anyone who will self identify as a Christian (and add some for good measure) when they want to talk about how "Christian" the US is...but then they turn around and claim that most of them are not true Christians. What is it with wanting to have their cake and eat it too! Do they think no one notices such obvious shifts -- "today I need you brothers, tomorrow you are no brother of mine!" Sheez glad I don't have friends like that!
Posted by: negentropyeater | December 7, 2008 5:24 AM
Does KC stand for King of Cocksuckers ?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:24 AM
"perhaps it's a good time to attempt to convert the troll to worship C'thulu. One creepy mythos deserves another. =)"
Hp Lovecraft's grave is not too far from where I live, though I am not sure I know exactly where it is, because the tombstone is not above his grave, as they placed it in the cemetery but in a different place.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 5:24 AM
Nice random quote when I refreshed the page :
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
[Lynn Lavner]"
Posted by: A Giant Purple Crocodile | December 7, 2008 5:25 AM
If a stranger accosts you on the street and starts asserting that you're a giant purple crocodile, do you patiently and kindly offer up all the evidence that shows you are NOT, in fact, a giant purple crocodile?
Certainly not. I might remark that he's the nineteenth person today to have drawn my attention to a fact of which I was, inevitably, already well apprised. Excuse me, I think the antelope I drowned last week will be rotten enough to eat now, so I'll say ta-ta.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:26 AM
Yes. It's been a long night.
I stand corrected.
However, 3 paragraphs in is truly a "tell" that Bonnie's argument is w.e.a.k.
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:28 AM
You mean to fulfil Godwin's law?
oh shit, I mentioned the holocaust too early!
I should have waited a few pages before I called atheists here "The New Nazi party" and gave another analogy.
Well fuck, why didn't you warn me!
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 5:28 AM
Now that KC is officially frothing at the mouth ...
Ooohhh! One cappuccino please, no sugar.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 5:29 AM
But, KC, I've already flossed today.
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:29 AM
"I think the antelope I drowned last week will be rotten enough to eat now, so I'll say ta-ta."
Mmm, rotten stanky antelope!1
OK, back to KC..
KC..ever felt a feeling coming from the sea off in the distance? A feeling of longing of things long past? If so, maybe the Old Ones are for you!
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:30 AM
However, 3 paragraphs in is truly a "tell" that Bonnie's argument is w.e.a.k.
No, it's more evidence that you are a cocksucker.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:30 AM
I've just entered this conversation, but it seems to me that KC is "Bonnie".
Wow.
Whackadoodlism and sockpuppetry.
Now that's a feat!
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 5:32 AM
KC troll,meet killfile.
Watching Dover docu,i wish there would be more people like Judge Jones in your country,a republican christian with knowledge of the constitution and the law,there would probably be some hope to turn this around and prevent to turn the US into a theo/idiocracy.
Posted by: jornin | December 7, 2008 5:34 AM
@240
ummm KC, you do realize the comment about Godwin's Law had nothing to do with you?
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:34 AM
How many times can we count the word "sockpuppetry" on all the threads of each blog?
It has to be in the new atheist thesaurus.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | December 7, 2008 5:34 AM
And just to point this out but Christians did most of the destruction of historical material. - Janine the Insulating Sinner
Ah - that's how KC really thinks he knows there will be no proof of the holocaust in 2000 years - he assumes his Christofascist crew are going to take over and destroy all records of it.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:34 AM
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle® stick!!
Ya suck one cock and you're a cocksucker for life.
KC, you are truly a rare intellect. May I bow in your presence?
On my knees of course. ;^)
Posted by: KC | December 7, 2008 5:37 AM
he assumes his Christofascist crew are going to take over and destroy all records of it.
No, it will be dickheads like you who are fucked up.
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 5:40 AM
KC- you are a complete waste of space. Don't talk to this thing anymore, let PZ take care of it.
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 5:40 AM
KC troll,meet killfile.
clinteas life is a bitch isn't it?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:40 AM
"No, it will be dickheads like you who are fucked up."
Is that really your best? Reeally?
If so, how are you even able to freakin' type a response with such limited cognitive skills?
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 5:41 AM
KC troll,meet killfile.
Oh, I dunno, it's still amusing. What do you think will happen if we toss it a billygoat? (I don't think a well-rotted antelope will do.)
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:41 AM
KC, I'm still waiting for proof that your Christ ever existed. Or your god.
Tick, tock, tick, tock.
Here's a hint: You're deluded. And stubbornly so.
However, I'll gladly examine your "evidence". As long as your "evidence" isn't gleaned from a piece of shit book that was written in the 16th century by sexually repressed and sadistic authoritarians.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 5:41 AM
Ah ha! I submit exhibit A as evidence of both evolution and the Old Ones:
Both Bonnie's and KC's gill-slits are showing. I don't know how I initially missed it! Let's see those Innsmouth library cards...
I feel compelled to thank the both of them for the bread and circuses! Though it's gone downhill since KC began to stray off-topic by offering us all sexual favors, and throwing around playful "pet names".
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 5:45 AM
KC,...go to th sea and swim out.
Keep swimming until you feel a tug.
Do not worry, as it is only, "The Old Ones."
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 5:45 AM
Is that really your best? Reeally?
If so, how are you even able to freakin' type a response with such limited cognitive skills?
Here is a little hint. It doesn't require any of my best. Everyone here is fucked beyond belief. They are so fucked in the head that they don't even know they have their head up their ass.
My point is that it does not require any thought to be a fucked up person like these atheists are on here.
You know that list that I posted. It sounds like a joke right? Well, that is actually how people on here really are.
The joke is on you.
Posted by: John Morales | December 7, 2008 5:47 AM
Shame, in a post categorised in "kooks", we don't even get a real kook - only a sub-kookish juvenile penis-obsessed troll.
'Tis indeed amusing to see the troll's initial effort at #168, and the subsequent descent into infantile, unimaginative invective at the first challenge.
Posted by: Brachychiton | December 7, 2008 5:48 AM
KC sans Sunshine Band:
I've never understood this attitude of going to someone else's blog and telling other readers to fuck off.
And as for:
Someone's going to get lucky tonight because I'm betting KC doesn't have a tooth in his mouth.
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 5:49 AM
The people on here whine like little bitches
Boo fucking hoo...
Grow some balls bitches
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 5:49 AM
Funny that the evidence for evolution has lasted hundreds of millions of years, and that the evidence will still be there even if all records are destroyed by fanatical zealots.
Posted by: Derek | December 7, 2008 5:50 AM
Delusions on competence and grandeur. Nice. As if this is the first nut that thought that by virtue of being Christian she could command the entire American population to do her bidding.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:50 AM
Just as I thought.
No "evidence".
Now KC, do us all a favor and return to your church and offer an intercessory prayer that we are all struck down by the wrath of The Wizard in the Sky.
We won't worry, but it may prevent you from displaying your ignorance here.
At least in church you will be surrounded by like minded fools that will pat you on the back and tell you that your delusion is reality.
You won't feel better about the beating you've taken here, but you're sure to be in good company holding hands with familiar sweaty palms and munching on stale consecrated hosts and a few shots of MD20/20.
Try a little cheezwhiz on the cracker. It may enhance the whole "body of Christ" concept by adding a tissue like texture to the ritual.
Posted by: Claudia | December 7, 2008 5:51 AM
Ohhhhh! The joke is on US! Because I thought we were all poking fun at KC's inane ramblings... Who knew?
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 5:51 AM
Shame, in a post categorised in "kooks", we don't even get a real kook - only a sub-kookish juvenile penis-obsessed troll.
'Tis indeed amusing to see the troll's initial effort at #168, and the subsequent descent into infantile, unimaginative invective at the first challenge.
John, you must not be good in bed. I bet the girlfriend/wife isn't happy.
Posted by: archgallo | December 7, 2008 5:53 AM
I don't get this part:
"I don't want them learning the fairy tale of evolution, I want them to be free to investigate ALL available arguments. All of them."
So...she wants her children to learn ALL available arguments, as long as they fit into her world view?
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 5:53 AM
You guys are quite bored aren't you? KC is nothing more than an 8 year old brainwashed creationist fucktard with an inflated sense of morality that it seems to have abandoned for the sake of.... Well, being a complete dickhead. *sigh*, it's depressing even talking about what a completely redundant system of fucked-up lies KC continues to refer to as some sort of argument.
You know what, no one can be this stupid without conscious effort. Whether He realizes it or not, KC is a poe.
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 5:54 AM
KC, I'm still waiting for proof that your Christ ever existed. Or your god.
Tick, tock, tick, tock.
Here's a hint: You're deluded. And stubbornly so.
yeah, I need a big brain and be a douchebag like you.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | December 7, 2008 5:54 AM
I'm not sure if I should feel sad or entertained by the fact that KC is having a meltdown here before our eyes.
I'm gonna try for both.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 5:55 AM
KC...
When you get to Middle School, you're going to be rather disappointed to learn that "suck my dick" stops being a good insult once you reach a certain age.
Next, you'll discover that these "girl" creatures you've been hearing about are real, and someday you may realize the implications of that.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 5:56 AM
The sad thing about all this is that people like Bonnie and KC exist in real life.
If it was some sort of challenge in a computer game,it would be fun for a little while,but these might be the people sitting on your local school board in the US,or on your city council.
Sad thing for mankind,really.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:56 AM
Does "ALL available arguments" include the Flying Spaghetti Monster's Noodly Appendage?
Posted by: Carlie | December 7, 2008 5:57 AM
Wow, it's like KC is some kind of mutant meld between a Wingnut Daily reader and a 4chan regular. It's rare to see a specimen of creationist whose only method of insult is to talk about sucking cocks. Sure, most of them probably spend a lot of time thinking about it, but usually they don't advertise that in public.
Posted by: Joeyess | December 7, 2008 5:58 AM
Still waiting for this "evidence".
I told you people that I didn't think I was going to get any sleep tonight.
Posted by: mayhempix | December 7, 2008 5:58 AM
Bonnie,
Let's be very clear about something. You are not a player in the advertising and PR world. Your hysterical threat of a campaign against PZ is just as delusional as your superstitious belief in a vengeful sky god. I know you are upset because the wingnut Christian right's fantasy of controlling the US as a Christian empire is over. But please understand, it is over. Ken Ham is an ignorant arrogant fool. God and Jesus will not help you. The Rapture will never occur. So please get over it for your own sake and the sake of any children you might brainwash with your silly and destructive ideology.
Posted by: KX | December 7, 2008 5:59 AM
You guys are quite bored aren't you? KC is nothing more than an 8 year old brainwashed creationist fucktard with an inflated sense of morality that it seems to have abandoned for the sake of....
oh you hurt my feelings. All I want it to be as smart as you. That is all I ever wanted.
If I could only be as big as an asshole as you are I would be all set.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:02 AM
Personally, I think that KC/Bonnie is really Ken Ham in cyber-drag.
Hey KC, did you remember to duct-tape your genitals properly?
Posted by: Lago | December 7, 2008 6:02 AM
OK, last post as I actually need to get up and go to church in the morning (no shit,..I mean I really do).
KC, You knew all along what you were going to do. Come in, state your crap, ..wait for the response..and then claim you are being attacked by the weakling atheists instead of actually backing up your claims. Then you could get all macho on their asses and get out your frustration that you do not have the intellectual capacity to defend your position.
We have offered you many a chance to defend your case, and you knew from the beginning that we would make fun of you if you threw out BS and did not back it up. You are simply a drunken chimp to us at this point...
Posted by: KC2 | December 7, 2008 6:02 AM
Still waiting for this "evidence".
I told you people that I didn't think I was going to get any sleep tonight.
What evidence do you need that you an asshole?
{.}
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 6:03 AM
I prefer to dip my defenseless crackers. It provides a wonderful sort of spiritual au jus deliciousness. But they're just as tasty as a Triscuit with enough Easy Cheez.
Blasphemy can become a wonderful cornucopia of delights when one doesn't live in fear of eternal divine torture by the imaginary gods of others.
Come to think of it, C'thulu might be rather tasty with some cocktail sauce on a defenseless Christ-cracker. Then again, that might be in poor taste. After all, C'thulu is warm and cuddly when compared with the Abrahamic god's "eternal love".
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:05 AM
Got syntax, genius?
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 6:05 AM
-"KY"KY, stop licking Lago.
Posted by: Claudia | December 7, 2008 6:06 AM
Bored now...
(For all my BTVS nerds; Holla!)
Posted by: mayhempix | December 7, 2008 6:08 AM
@Joeyess
Do you happen to be the Joeyess from Moonbat Chat?
If so, "WildK" says hi.
Posted by: KC4 | December 7, 2008 6:08 AM
Hey, I am actually becoming educated!
This is not a threat, but an observation (I am actually using a step out of the scientific method).
Do you realize that if every single person in this thread died all at once the world would be a much better place?
Imagine there are no assholes. You can do it if you try.
I mean just think how the world would improve for everyone else. I mean all of the people on here could be eliminated and nobody would give a shit because automatically their lives would improve.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:09 AM
I am one in the same. Hello back atchya!!
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 6:10 AM
Sounds lovely. Gulp some drain cleaner and start it, will ya? We'll catch up. Really, honest.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 6:12 AM
PS: KY, I'm a little surprised to hear that you're inclined to imagine a world with no assholes, but then again, I'm guessing that when you get over your self-loathing and come out, it'll be as a bottom.
Seriously, there's no reason to be ashamed of who you are. Just accept it and find a nice muscular leatherman to spend your days pleasing instead of crawling around here mewling and begging to be spanked. We'll all be happier.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 6:13 AM
KC, that's such an awesome idea. It makes me almost wish I could be around to watch you and your ilk try to make fire after exterminating all the world's critical thinkers.
To paraphrase Douglas Adams: "10 out of 10 points for style, but minus several million for good thinking."
Posted by: KC9 | December 7, 2008 6:17 AM
....................../´¯/)
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.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
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Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:17 AM
It never takes long for wingnuts to deploy their eliminationist rhetoric, does it?
You people are a danger to reason and liberty.
Just pray. No one is listening, but it's the only thing you're practiced at.
You seem to fuck up everything else you attempt.
Try the beatitudes. You know, the rules that your saviour set down? We atheists do these things naturally, because we actually give a shit about this life and don't believe in the next.
My mother has a saying: Some people are so heavenly bound, they're no earthly good.
You and people of your ilk are the personification of that particular bit of wisdom.
Posted by: Unicorn | December 7, 2008 6:18 AM
"What are you afraid of? "
Reminds me of Scientology phrases...
Posted by: Carlie | December 7, 2008 6:18 AM
#278 and #287 - are you trying badly to sockpuppet yourself, or are you now so incoherent that you can't even remember your own handle?
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 6:18 AM
"oh you hurt my feelings. All I want it to be as smart as you. That is all I ever wanted."
-impossible without a frontal lobe.
"If I could only be as big as an asshole as you are I would be all set."
Yep, all your gay friends will appreciate it. Seriously, the only functional word in its vocabulary: "asshole" along with the phrase "suck my dick." This isn't a coincidence. Repression leads to bad things, but in your case, i hope you are so far in the fucking closet that you find yourself in Narnia. Maybe you would be too busy fucking Mr., Tumnus to give a shit about the minds and genitals of normal citizenry.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 6:21 AM
The troll has descended into homicidal lunacy,dont feed it.
Posted by: Carlie | December 7, 2008 6:21 AM
Sigh. When PZ wakes up and takes a look at the thread, hopefully KC will get tossed in the dungeon. Sockpuppetry, death threats, and most damning of all, repetitious and boring as hell without ever making a point of any kind.
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 6:22 AM
"Do you realize that if every single person in this thread died all at once the world would be a much better place?"
Seig Hail!!
Seriously, lead by example.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | December 7, 2008 6:22 AM
I mean just think how the world would improve for everyone else. I mean all of the people on here could be eliminated and nobody would give a shit because automatically their lives would improve. - KC4
Genocidal fantasies as well. That's one sick individual. Let's hope KC4 doesn't work in a high-security disease or biotechnology lab.
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:23 AM
Oh ho ho ho..........
That ship has done sailed.
Hahahahahahahah.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 6:23 AM
Either KC is mutating before our very eyes, or there are now some decent Poe's (KX, KC2, KC4, ...), or it's keyboard is so covered in spittle (and whatelse I won't speculate on) it can't see the keytops clearly...
Presuming those are all the real KC, it's moved from a remarkably poor initial comment, to funny (to everyone but KC, I presume) insults, and is now flailing around hoping its great sky fairy will bring selective death and destruction on everyone who has commented in this thread. (I wonder if KC realises that includes itself? And don't forget the well-rotted antelope, just to be sure no-one's missed.)
Shall we start a poll on what it will do next? Choices include:
* Go home and cry to mommy.
* Silence.
* More inept insults, then one of the above.
I suppose it could try answering some of the questions asked of it, but there's no observational reason to think that.
Posted by: Horwood Beer-Master | December 7, 2008 6:26 AM
Woah! You'd better stop adding on those numbers after your name KC - they've surpassed your IQ already.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 6:29 AM
Oh, the low-hanging fruit is so delicious at first, but the aftertaste... Hopefully nothing a bit of single-malt mouthwash can't cure.
Posted by: nunyer | December 7, 2008 6:29 AM
Now that KX/KC/KC2 has gotten off from the attention, is it dungeon time yet?
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 6:30 AM
like i said, must be Poe, even if it is the real KC. Certainly Poe's Law still holds for those that are so stupid as to be self-satirical?
KC-the Mobius strip of fuck-headed-ness.
Fractal fucktard,
etcetera
etcetera
Posted by: David | December 7, 2008 6:35 AM
When did the 4chaners show up?
TL;DR, you're doing it wrong, etc.
PZ is sort of an irl/ol troll. lol
Posted by: AForce1 | December 7, 2008 6:35 AM
As much as I hate the thought of giving this Bonnie woman the oxygen of publicity, I think a counterattack should be launched. That is, everyone on this blog should email this illogical insulting diatribe to sympathetic friends etc who in turn email it to all their contacts. Let as many people see what ostriches people like her are.
It's said that ignorance is bliss so Bonnie must be very blissful as well as arrogant.
Posted by: Marc Abian | December 7, 2008 6:38 AM
Can we stop feeding the troll? I'm happy to see actual arguments they make on here get ripped to shreds, but let's not indulge the fellatio-based insults KC has brought home from the playground.
Posted by: Carlie | December 7, 2008 6:38 AM
Getting back to the original post, I find it amusing that Bonnie puts "Professor P.T. Myers" and then "Dr. PZ Myers" at the top of her address, then writes "Dear Mr. Myers". Could she simply not decide what to call him? And was PT a genuine error or a clever insinuation of Barnumness? (Barnuminity?)
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 6:40 AM
Please read up on Poe's law and come back when youve understood it.
Posted by: John M | December 7, 2008 6:40 AM
Don't you just hate it when these deluded creationists talk about proof. Haven't they yet learned the fundamental theorem of sciences - proof is possible only in mathematics.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 6:44 AM
Visual aid.
Posted by: mayhempix | December 7, 2008 6:47 AM
Posted by: joeyess | December 7, 2008 6:09 AM
I am one in the same. Hello back atchya!!
Good to see you here!
Posted by: RickrOll | December 7, 2008 6:57 AM
seems like this new thing could be a follower of A. Davidson: he noted being on this specific thread rather recently. Seems suspicious.
Interesting to note, you took what i said seriously about Poe's Law, how ironic clinteas.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 7:06 AM
Sorry about that,I wont take what you say seriously anymore from here on in then.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 7:10 AM
John M@312, yep. It is highly annoying, isn't it? Along with all the dribble about it's not a law or is only a theory or worshipping the person it's named after or fill in the blank . But perhaps the most annoying (leaving aside lunacy, illogic, quote-mining, and so on) is the gibberish that if some detail has changed, then the whole has been disproven or cannot "be true".
With evolution specifically, the garbage that it doesn't explain the origins of the earth, or of life on earth, I find highly obnoxious. (I just giggle at the claim that evolution doesn't explain the "meaning of life"; I'm not at all sure why I find that not-relevant claim funny and the other cited examples obnoxious?)
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 7:12 AM
Where the hell is truth machine when you need him?
Its not only that the creotards are poisoning the thread,the potentially reasonable commenters also dont get the most basic concepts...*dispairs*
Posted by: Fatpie42 | December 7, 2008 7:16 AM
Oh ffs:
"Evolution is a failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested. You know it, and most of your radical scientists know it. And this kind of attack from you is just evident of the death throes of the false theory of evolution. Much like the snake trying to get one last bite as you cut off it's head, it knows it's dying . . . it knows it's not going to win, but it's going to try like hell to do as much damage as it can before it dies. Real scientific, doc. Darwin is your god. We have proof that he is dead. Mine is not. You have no proof that he doesn't exist. You won't let anyone try to prove it, which I guess answers what you are afraid of. Let the kids discuss it professor. What are you afraid ot? Research is the mother of discovery."
1) We regularly test evolution scientifically. He knows it just as all the scientists know it.
2) Since when is criticising something a sign that your argument is weak? Even if that were true, wouldn't that same logic apply to this letter too?
3) "Darwin is your God." Um... Not really... No.
4) No one has any proof whether God exists or not - true. That's the problem. Myers won't even let anyone prove it? Not true. I actually remember Myers regularly claiming that he'd like to see some evidence or arguments. I can only presume this guy think that "intelligent design theory" is an opportunity to prove God's existence. Even ID-theorist have been happy to note that their theory no more proves God's existence than the existence of aliens. An 'intelligent creator' does not necessarily mean a God.
5) "Research is the mother of discovery." Indeed. Let's respect the research then and not allow pseudoscience to get in the way of it.
Posted by: mayhempix | December 7, 2008 7:26 AM
When exactly did "marxist" become the buzzword insult of choice among the right? Do any of these people actually know what a marxist is? - Pustilio
Paranoid wingnuts think that marxism and atheism are inseparable. They first played that card to gain traction against the Dems who had a lock on government after Hoover's debacle and FDR was elected. Senator Robert Taft, an Eastern establishment conservative, gave "the marxists/commies/atheists are coming to eat your children alive" McCarthyites tacit approval when he felt he was demonized unfairly by the left and had nowhere else to turn. The owners of major companies used it as means to discredit unions (thus began the unholy alliance between big biz and Christianists.) After McCarthy's witchhunt was completely repudiated, wingnuts like the John Birchers and fundie Christian leaders kept the myth alive amongst the true believers. The advent of rightwing talk radio, Fox News, the internet and 9/11 refueled the movement adding the term "liberal" to the mix. The marxist=liberal=socialist=commie=terrorist=islamist=atheist meme was trotted out to the public as a last resort by the McCain campaign to pin on Obama as voiced by Sarah Palin and other surrogates.
Obviously this is an abbreviated synopsis and there is much more including going after "effete atheist intellectuals" which was code for secular Jews who the wingnuts felt dominated science... physics and biology in particular.
Posted by: majkia | December 7, 2008 7:35 AM
Hey! You're in good company! Amazing how many good folks are suddenly called "Marxist." Obviously she got that Republican blast fax.
Posted by: Mike | December 7, 2008 7:37 AM
I'm sure it's been said, but I can't be expected to read through 319 comments first... what does marxism have to do with any of that idiot's claims??? That's out of the blue.
Posted by: Wolfhound | December 7, 2008 7:40 AM
Do you praise Jesus with that mouth, young man?
Posted by: Kimpatsu | December 7, 2008 7:40 AM
And she misused the apostrophe.
With people like her, is it any wonder China's economy is poised to overtake that of the USA? Oh, but that will never happen, because America is god's Most Favoured Nation(TM), and he won't let it.
Right...
Posted by: Cowcakes | December 7, 2008 7:44 AM
I Despair for the USA. I just finished watching a TV program on the Westborough Baptist Church and then find this letter from Bonnie Braindead. It sometimes makes me think we should put you all under quarantine. But then I figure that hey most of you voted for Obama and there's Pharyngula so maybe there is hope after all. ;-)
Posted by: Pirate AM | December 7, 2008 7:47 AM
Not on the topic but you may be interested in this poll:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/
Posted by: Frank | December 7, 2008 8:00 AM
hey, at least that e-mail wacko apparently used spell check...
Posted by: Voice 0'Reason | December 7, 2008 8:00 AM
Do Creationists have any idea how funny it is when they label evolution a fairy tale? Because, of course, evolution is all about talking serpents and talking shrubbery and seas that magically part and... Oops. That's not evolution, that's the Bible. Must stop getting those confused.
All of them? That should make for an interesting biology class. Alongside evolution, students can learn that humans came from (check all that apply): the dust of the ground; the vomit of a god; driftwood; the blood of Kingu; rocks; etc.
Not accurate, but well known. Sort of like the Bible.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 8:03 AM
@Pirate AM #326
Well, Christ on a cracker, we're only about nine million votes in arrears.
Should the motto "In God We Trust" be removed from U.S. currency? * 9092120 responses
Yes. It's a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.
18%
No. The motto has historical and patriotic significance and does nothing to establish a state religion.
82%
Luckily this is not actually up for a vote. The addition of god to currency is unconstitutional. Shall we vote to decide whether or not the Constitution is constitutional?
If this was a democracy rather than a republic (it's actually an oligarchy), mob rule would have us stoning people to death in the streets and praying for our computers to fix themselves.
Posted by: WhenDanSaysJump | December 7, 2008 8:09 AM
I'm interested to hear what The Sunshine Band have made of KC's antics.
Posted by: Dave | December 7, 2008 8:14 AM
Darwin has about as much evidence proving natural selection as you have in proving there is no God.
It always... interests me that an argument would be presented like this.
Personally, I don't have *any* evidence proving there is no God. At the same time, I don't have any evidence proving there *is* one (or many--funny how many Christians leave all that out) either.
That aside, that Darwin (and the others) arrived at the conclusion *without* the overwhelming evidence *we& have, I've thought, is pretty cool. Imagine what they would have thought about molecular biology...
This drives me nuts.
Posted by: FisherQueen | December 7, 2008 8:34 AM
There are a lot of Christians in this country, but quite a few of them are A-OK with science. I'm one of the many Cincinnati Christians who is embarrassed to have the Creation "Museum" in my backyard, and who will do a little happy dance when it finally goes bankrupt. Of course, she might say that, as a person who thinks evolution is a fascinating and beautiful process, I'm not a 'real Christian.' But if she's only counting people as Christians who believe in young-earth Creationism... there's a lot fewer than 97% of that kind of Christian in this country.
Posted by: trj | December 7, 2008 8:35 AM
ALL of them? You mean BOTH the creation stories in Genesis?
Posted by: Orac | December 7, 2008 8:35 AM
Where's the Hitler Zombie when you need him?
Posted by: cyan | December 7, 2008 8:44 AM
Dave,
It drives you nuts perhaps because you are drawing logical conclusions from physical evidence whereas a majority of US citizens are drawing conclusions based on the conclusions of some people 2000 years ago?
I empathize with your mental pain.
Posted by: Stephanurus | December 7, 2008 8:48 AM
I liked this one:
"Darwin has about as much evidence proving natural selection as you have in proving there is no God."
Stephanurus
Posted by: Claire | December 7, 2008 8:49 AM
If any group seems to promote Hitler or Nazism, it is the Christians. It is their intolerance that reminds me of Hitler's intolerance of people who did not fit the blonde hair blue eyes mold. Ghandi said it best.."I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are nothing like your Christ".
And Bonnie, Darwin is not our "god" as you say. He is a man we greatly admire and has formulated an amazing theory that has been re-formulated once we understood the basis of inheritance. Read a text book and maybe you would know that. Stop being so close minded, it really isn't flattering. Also, maybe you should stop taking medicine. It isn't like bacteria are constantly evolving into new drug resistant forms, thus requiring new treatments to be searched out (please note the sarcasm here).
Posted by: Richard Harris | December 7, 2008 8:51 AM
Bonnie, you need to study the use of logic.
For instance, just because you fervently believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. And just because something is written in an old book doesn't make it true either.
You also have a problem with factual knowledge, such as the percentage of people who believe in a specific superstition, Xianity, in the USA. This is probably due to quite normal psychological processes, handicapped by false logic, such as wishful thinking.
I would suggest that you read Darwin's 'On the Origin of Species...' or 'The Descent of Man'. If you do so with an open mind, then you should find it liberating.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 7, 2008 8:54 AM
After a full night of this nonsense, I thought this might be an appropriately absurd form of Unicorn Chaser.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/LAKINGZ/hitler-watermelon.gif
Posted by: Scott | December 7, 2008 9:03 AM
I am suddenly motivated to hit every one of my news sources and let them know how marxist you are.
Hello, delusions of grandeur.
And hello to all of your "news sources" putting you in their spam list as soon as they start getting whacked-out creationist e-mail from you.
Posted by: Andrew G | December 7, 2008 9:04 AM
Woa, I've just read the letter, Mr Cox has a bad dose of religious fever. You poor American atheists, how do you survive among so many crazy people?
Posted by: R.W. Thomas | December 7, 2008 9:07 AM
"I may not be a professor,-"
You're right, Bonnie. You aren't.
Posted by: Snark7 | December 7, 2008 9:08 AM
@Claire, #337:
"If any group seems to promote Hitler or Nazism, it is the Christians. "
You are absolutely right there. Not only had the antisemitism deep roots in christian theology, but according to a census of the german protestant church, in the middle of 1939, after 6 years of pogroms, murder and nazi dictatorship, 98.5 % of germans and about 100% of Nazis were either christians (95% of all germans) or other believers in a god.
The 1.5% rest of freethinkers and atheists either left the country of were murdered by the faithful scum.
By and large Xianism is utterly evil, stupid dreck.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | December 7, 2008 9:09 AM
You know? There's not a single word of truth ANYWHERE in Bonnie's letter. Zilch. Respectfully.
Evidently, the poor thing is trapped in her hermetically-sealed mind, and the lack of permeability just won't let in any information from the outside into it. Rather tragic.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 9:11 AM
And just because something is written in an old book doesn't make it true either.
A close relative of mine once tried a variation of that one on me, "if it isn't true, then why has it survived thousands of years of attempts to ban it?" (or words to that effect). My reply, "The pyramids of Egypt with their hieroglyphics have also survived thousands of years of vandalism and attack. We did lose the knowledge of how to read the hieroglyphics for a long time. But the knowledge did not stay lost. The pyramids are older than the babble. So the pyramids must have priority. They are older survivors! Hence, it must be the case we should worship many gods, including the giant dung beetle that looks after the Sun."
If my memory is correct, the reply (when it eventually came) was on some other topic entirely. There are perhaps better answers/rebuttals, and I probably made some factual errors (minor ones, I hope!), but I fecking wasn't going to spend too much time rebutting the silliness. Even silliness from a close relative.
Posted by: stevogvsu | December 7, 2008 9:27 AM
We really should turn these emails in to some sort of drinking game. Every time they use the word intolerance, mention Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc, and every time they declare the iminent death of evolutionary theory take a shot P.Z. It will make reading this tripe much more entertaining. Hell, you might start looking forward to it.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 9:31 AM
Yawn,no more trolls...
SC,you missed all the fun !!!
Off to bed......
Posted by: Plex Flexico | December 7, 2008 9:35 AM
@stevogvsu #346:
I don't drink but I want to play too! Can I use grape juice?
Posted by: Seeker | December 7, 2008 9:38 AM
@ PZ, 118
You're not the only one PZ, for more than 3 years now, I've been hiding that same terrible secret from my wife :D
btw, now that we're on the subject of family anyway. Something I've been really curious about for quite a while now... Does Skatje's name refer to/come from the Dutch word "Schatje", which means darling, of sweetie?
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate | December 7, 2008 9:44 AM
Ah, but how many of those are TRUE Christians(TM)?Posted by: raven | December 7, 2008 9:45 AM
OOOhhhhh!!! A threat. Not very original, PZ probably gets thousands of threats a year. Plus a bunch of lies. Xians are not 97% of the population, it is 78%.
One thing I got out of reading PT and Pharyngula.
Hatred, Lies, Violence, and Murder are never far below the surface of religious fanatics like the xian Death Cultists.
If xian becomes synonomous with hater, liar, killer, and moron, who would want to be one? There is definitely a backlash against these clowns and the fundies are definitely slowly losing their members, mostly the best and brightest of course.
Posted by: Jackie | December 7, 2008 9:45 AM
Wow, this woman is just fractally wrong at every point. Thanks for the amusing read.
Posted by: Michelle | December 7, 2008 9:46 AM
My favorite part is the "Respectfully". See? She says all kinds of threats and bull but she still respects you!
Posted by: Don | December 7, 2008 9:52 AM
stevogvsu
Is there a surplus of liver donors in your area? Or are you just trying to kill us all?
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/opinion/media/r_drunk.jpeg.jpg
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 9:54 AM
Re this drinking game... It's a shot only if the troll mentions the nonsense first, right? That is, being thirsty and leading the troll by the nose with suggestions or ancient quotes or whatnot into making the desired statement doesn't count, does it?
And grape juice is fine. So is, for that matter, chocolate.
Posted by: dkew | December 7, 2008 9:54 AM
Looks like KC's mom came out of her drug induced stupor and made him go to bed. Hope she made him clean the semen off the monitor and keyboard first. But why have so few of the regulars remembered how to use blockquotes and preview on this thread? It gets confusing trying to figure out what is a quote and what is a new comment.
Posted by: raven | December 7, 2008 9:55 AM
Of course we know what heretics and apostates are. Those are the people burnt at the stake or stoned to death centuries ago. Give it up, wacko. These days we no longer allow homicidal religious fanatics to run around loose killing and torturing anyone they want. At least in the west. You can always move to Iraq, Afganistan, or Somalia where religious fanatics have a freer hand and kill frequently for reasons we normal people find horrifying.
Superficially, Ms. Bonnie comes across with a bad case of Dark Ages envy. But really this is just some nutcase.
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 9:55 AM
No she doesnt.She thinks we are the antichrist.Literally.It is a worry.
Posted by: Valis | December 7, 2008 9:55 AM
Actually, that is a a common misconception. None of the Pyramids at the Giza complex contain any hieroglyphics at all whatsoever. What makes this so fascinating is that the Egyptians covered every other (surviving) structure they built with hieroglyphics. Why this is I don't have the faintest idea, but it bugs the crap out of me that we will probably never know. (And no, I don't believe the pyramids were built by aliens, hehe.)
Posted by: cap | December 7, 2008 9:58 AM
"How someone so intolerant and closed minded could possibly be considered educated is beyond my comprehension."
She should have re-read that part to herself a handful of times before hitting send.
"You can post this on your blog, you can laugh or throw it away, delete it . . . I don't care. "
If she doesn't care, why bother sending the message in the first place?
BTW If these emails WERE turned into a drinking game, we would all quickly end up dead with gooey livers.
Posted by: Carol | December 7, 2008 9:59 AM
That poor woman's mind has been enslaved.
Posted by: Valis | December 7, 2008 9:59 AM
Ahem, by this I mean the three main pyramids, not the smaller satellite structures of course.
Posted by: bric | December 7, 2008 10:11 AM
I've noticed in Reddit as well how many of the anti-liberal/science/freethought persuasion use homoerotic genital imagery; as a gay man I find this disturbing. Are they afraid of female genitalia? KY is sacred to some of us you know.
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 7, 2008 10:13 AM
"Darwin has about as much evidence proving natural selection as you have in proving there is no God."
So... the evidence for God is... where, exactly?
They love to harp on evidence, evidence, evidence and yet, how easily they forget that there is absolutely zero evidence for their beloved mega-authority figure, MR. GOD.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 10:18 AM
Interesting! You're right, I don't think I ever knew that. However, weren't all three looted? Is it possible that whilst the structures themselves lack any hieroglyphics, some of the (looted) contents may not? (I am aware hieroglyphics were rarely written on wood or papyrus, so I'm thinking here more of stone, pottery, and perhaps metals.)
Posted by: Nick Gotts | December 7, 2008 10:19 AM
the fundies are definitely slowly losing their members, mostly the best and brightest of course. - raven
...thus reducing the average quality both of fundies, and of non-fundies.
Posted by: Noni Mausa | December 7, 2008 10:20 AM
Am I the only person who spotted this?
Oh noes! A trained perfessional! Oh, wait.I have stopped using the word "comprise" because it is never used correctly. Usually it is misused this way: "X is comprised of..." But I give bonus points for people who discover a new way to abuse the poor word. Bonnie has succeeded -- I have never seen "comprises of" before.
For anyone who cares, the word is used this way:
Trained perfessional? False alarm.
Noni
Posted by: Candiru | December 7, 2008 10:24 AM
I find it interesting that someone who supposedly writes press releases and advertisements for a living cannot spell "amendment," or be troubled to find out the correct spelling before launching her tirade.
Posted by: Ron Gove | December 7, 2008 10:26 AM
To many of the writers above. I am an orthodox atheist and agree that people like Bonnie Cox and other creationists have the IQ of a frog (and I hope that I haven't disrespected any frogs)but it really is unnecessary to fill your comments with profanity. Calling her a fuck face or twat or whatever doesn't help make your point. Of course rational arguments don't work either. These people have been brainwashed since childhood and will go to their deathbed believing that god has a special place for them and sadly they will never know they are wrong. Please let's all keep our comments rational and avoid ad hominem arguments.
Ron Gove
Posted by: The Chemist | December 7, 2008 10:30 AM
I realize this hypothesis may not be accepted too readily, but I get a strong nagging feeling this letter is a Poe.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 7, 2008 10:32 AM
1. The pyramids of Giza aren't the only pyramids. See the "Pyramid Texts", the oldest of which date back to c. 2400 BCE.
2. Inscriptions were left behind as part of the construction process. To quote the Egyptologist Mark Lehner,
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 7, 2008 10:33 AM
I missed all of KC's cocksucking comments because I was busy sucking someone's cock. Is my sex life by being influenced by Pharyngula's trolls? Because the results so far are awesome.
I am a bit sleepy though, darnit.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 7, 2008 10:39 AM
Hmmm, unedited interview transcripts are probably not the best thing to quote. . . dammit, it's early and I need my caffeine.
Posted by: nigelTheBold | December 7, 2008 10:40 AM
KC said in #194:
"2) Make fun of religion because it is fun to do and screw people's rights, they are not intelligent enough to handle their rights."
Uhm.... please explain how mocking someone interferes with their rights in any fashion? Is it because they are so insecure with their beliefs they might reconsider, and become atheists themselves?
Or is it because they might get thew feewings huht?
You are right, though. It is fun to do. And with Christians, it's very easy, as they are generally so mockworthy.
Posted by: bill ringo | December 7, 2008 10:41 AM
Poor deluded woman. I will prey on her.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 7, 2008 10:44 AM
Please let's all keep our comments rational
Why? You said yourself it doesn't matter. May as well vent our frustration. You even tossed out an insult yourself.
and avoid ad hominem arguments.
Name calling != ad hominem.
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 7, 2008 10:45 AM
"Because marxists are not the only ones afforded freedom of speech and freedom to inquire in this country."
It's nice to see Bonnie exercising her right to free speech but in the freedom to inquire department she could use some pointers.
Posted by: PZ Myers | December 7, 2008 10:46 AM
I hope you don't miss him too much, because KC has been banned.
Posted by: hje | December 7, 2008 10:48 AM
Crank, baby, crank.
Posted by: Christophe Thill | December 7, 2008 10:52 AM
"Evolution is a failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested."
This coming from an expert in the science of... what exactly? Advertisement? Public relations? Communication?
Posted by: negentropyeater | December 7, 2008 10:58 AM
The average quality of each group would reduce, but the average quality of both together would stay the same. That's assuming the move from fundie to non fundie would not be associated wth any quality improvement.
Otherwise fundie quality would definitely reduce and non fundie could possibly increase, the total population increasing in average quality.
Posted by: Barry | December 7, 2008 10:59 AM
Please unban KC! Don't let it end.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 10:59 AM
Thanks PZ. That saves a few brain cells.
Posted by: zaardvark | December 7, 2008 11:04 AM
Am I the only who thinks Bonnie Cox is absolutely right? Screw you, PZ Myers!
Sincerely,
Lovely Penises
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 11:05 AM
... KC has been banned.
So what I am going to do now with this billygoat?
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | December 7, 2008 11:05 AM
The Chemist #370
I believe it's real, mainly because it's fairly representative of its type. If anything, it's mild, contains no profanity or death threats, and doesn't tell PZ (and the rest of us) we're going to Hell.
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 7, 2008 11:08 AM
"Darwin is your god. We have proof that he is dead. Mine is not. You have no proof that he doesn't exist. You won't let anyone try to prove it, which I guess answers what you are afraid of. Let the kids discuss it professor. What are you afraid ot? Research is the mother of discovery."
Something tells me she hasn't seen the Hundreds of Proofs of God's Existence page.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
She would like this one:
ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF DISPROOF
(1) You can't prove God doesn't exist!
(2) Therefore, God exists.
She would probably like this one, too:
ARGUMENT FROM HIDDEN LOGIC (II)
(1) Atheists say that God doesn't exist.
(2) But they only say that because they want to look cool and intellectual in front of their peers.
(3) They don't fool me!
(4) Therefore, God exists.
Posted by: bernard quatermass | December 7, 2008 11:12 AM
"Am I the only who thinks Bonnie Cox is absolutely right?"
Not at all. There is no shortage of idiots. So you can take some solace in that, I suppose.
Or not.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 11:13 AM
I miss bonnie.
Posted by: damnedyankee | December 7, 2008 11:13 AM
Ooo, I hate coming in late for the kook threads. The trolls are all used up by the time I get to them. Ah, well. I brought a bottle. Where d'ya want it?
Bonnie must be a Bill O'Reilly fan. He does that same "with all due respect, shove it" shtick.
I wonder when they're going to figure out that the constitutional right that allows them to blather on about their beliefs also gives us the right to mock their stupidities? No time soon, I'm guessing. I dream of waking up in a world where people don't scream "oppression" when all that's happening is that they're not being treated like Special Pretty Princesses.
Posted by: Don | December 7, 2008 11:14 AM
#380
Ah, but Christophe, biology is special. Because it is such an easy discipline then even someone who has not taken a single class in the subject or opened a single book is fully qualified to declare 'scientists' utterly wrong in the field to which they have dedicated a lifetime of meticulous study. It's not like TV repair or something, where expertise matters.
Just because Bonnie hasn't the faintest inkling of what she is talking about doesn't make her point less valid than that of a so-called 'professor' in the field. What are you, a marxist?
(Hands up. I have no science qualifications either, I just think science is cool.)
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 11:16 AM
No. There are plenty of ignorant half-wits out there. I'm sure you'd be right at home with them.
Posted by: The MadPanda | December 7, 2008 11:16 AM
(In response to His Tentacularness @ #378)
Miss him? My dear sir, I was looking forward to the months of target practice to reduce that nasty leftward drift on my chu no ku. Now I shall have to content myself with ordinary haybales, which is nowhere near as fun as they don't dodge and squeal.
Ah, well. Now that he's well and properly banned he can go cry about how the mean ol' atheists won't let him insult them and spew homophobia anymore. He was a boring little d'Orc anyway, rather like that Baba kid a while back. Not worth the XP.
Eh bien.
The MadPanda, FCD
Posted by: Father Shaggy | December 7, 2008 11:20 AM
This is me being an English teacher, but what I found most disturbing about the letter was this bit:
"I may not be a professor, but I know how to write a press release and I know how to advertise. That's my business."
The spelling and grammar were bad, but the mechanics set my teeth on edge. I was so twitchy about the basic errors that I didn't even bother getting annoyed about the made-up stats, the falsehoods, the threats or hypocrisy.
A reread only makes it worse. I find I glossed over some of them because I was fogged by her bullshit.
That this woman makes a living writing press releases, and presumably ad copy, indicates that the US economy is either worse than we thought, or in much better shape than we feared.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 11:21 AM
As already point out, ad hominem ≠ name calling.
In my opinion, referring to someone as having the "brains of a frog" (or, as recently happened on one of Orac's threads, "less intelligent than an uncooked walnut") is less bothersome than calling the person a "twat" or the like. Which is not to say "twat" isn't an appropriate name at times. It's all a matter of style and elegance.
Whilst I certainly don't succeed in this all the time myself, I do prefer the elegant stylist witty concise put-down. "Twat" is rarely any of those. "Frog-brained" can be.
Posted by: zaardvark | December 7, 2008 11:26 AM
#388 and #392... sigh. You couldn't be bothered to read the other two sentences? :P
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 11:33 AM
No I read them. Was this some attempt at Poe?
Posted by: The MadPanda | December 7, 2008 11:36 AM
Ah, it seems blf might be a fan of the Shakespearean Insult Generator ("For when common four letter words just aren't enough"). I must concur--while straightforwardness is often a virtue, perhaps we ought to try for the most melodious, flowing, and amusingly obscure insults.
We could perhaps aim to greviously insult a Troll or D'Orc in so flowery a fashion as to leave them uncertain of their status. Or better yet, thanking us for high praise! This might be more fun than a drinking game, and better for our livers.
Sometimes, though, they do deserve a good 'fuck off, you slimy little bastard' with no embellishments.
The MadPanda, FCD
Posted by: TetrahedralPete | December 7, 2008 11:41 AM
Well, Bonnie is not very "bonny" in this letter. PZ is right not to glorify her silliness with any answers...
Posted by: Phyllis | December 7, 2008 11:53 AM
I like how she misspells Cincinnati when blasting you for interfering in Cincinnati.
And 97% Christian?
So.... she thinks that the alternative universities and all that homeschooling is a GOOD thing.
Posted by: kemibe | December 7, 2008 11:57 AM
I don't believe a real person wrote that. I think it was generated by a sophisticated script fed all the characteristic of the classic hyperindoctrinated, primitive, and infantile chowderhead. We've come a long way since ELIZA!
In other words, "You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but I don't really believe that, and even if you dd have that freedom, you need to keep views I don't like to yourself." And in the same passage, Bonnie likens PZ to a totalitarian figure. This would all be a knee-slapper if there weren't so many Americans with 'tard factors rivaling and even exceeding Bonnie's, all of whom are happy to tell you to shut the fuck up in the name of a psychotic bearded skyprick who somehow blends omnipotence with an inability to defend himself.
Honesty is simply not a component of these people's world view. Bonnie's not lying here; she's plainly incapable of dealing in reality and one of its chief elements--honest discourse.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | December 7, 2008 11:57 AM
"I hope you don't miss him too much, because KC has been banned."
LOL!!!
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | December 7, 2008 12:00 PM
Of course: ...he [Darwin] is dead.
The fount of all knowledge, wikipedia, informs us that this happened on 19 April 1882.
Posted by: blf | December 7, 2008 12:04 PM
MadPanda@398, how embarassing! I'd totally forgotten about the Shakespearean Insult Generator. ;-(
Perhaps because I try (and often fail) to think up suitable insults and put-downs all by meself.
And I agree, at times a "yer a fecking troll with less marbles than a rotten mushroom" is quite satisfying.
Posted by: Jules | December 7, 2008 12:04 PM
She says "...you have NO RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate(sic) just because you disagree with their arguement(sic)."
Yet she is now interfering with University of Minnesota? How stupid. She is doing exactly what she says people have "no right to do."
Also, this woman says her job is to write press releases? I would feel sick if she was handling my company's PR. She can't even spell or use correct grammar.
These people don't get it. No one was trying to harm the creation museum. People were just trying to protect the zoo's credibility. No one is protesting the creation museum. If people want to have a for-profit museum for idiots, it's a free country.
Posted by: Allytude | December 7, 2008 12:06 PM
Replace indocrinate with irrigate, irritate or urinate or any "ate" word and it makes the same sense- none. That guy is an idiot.
Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2008 12:13 PM
-Bonnie Cox-
aka, "Bonnie "The Brain" Cox
Posted by: kemibe | December 7, 2008 12:14 PM
Holy hell, this is truly insane. I posted my last comment without bothering to navigate the entire lake of verbal excrement. Bonnie claims to be in the ad business and says she can write press releases, yet is about as literate as a moderately gifted fifth-grader. I mean, "ammedment"?
I'm sure she never stood a chance and had parents as bankrupt of education as she herself is, just as her own kids are probably well beyond help already. Still, when she says she's glad she has alternatives for her kids to the marxist and hatemongering public schools run by the Pee Zees of the worlds, I can't help but be blackly grateful, because wen I picture the offspring of people like Bonnie I imagine syndactylous grunting cretins with eyes on stalks and an untold number of extra or missing chromosomes.
All of the ones that lead to God and don't mention evolution, that is. Do people like Bonnie think they're fooling people or are they really too stupid to understand the massive self-contradictions in what they say?
PZ must be just like me. The other day I was riding the bus and sneezed. When the old lady next to me said "Bless you," I hauled off and punched her square in the fucking face.
Posted by: mayhempix | December 7, 2008 12:28 PM
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 7, 2008 10:33 AM
"I missed all of KC's cocksucking comments because I was busy sucking someone's cock."
Someone has a lucky cock.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 12:34 PM
Kevin. I didn't realize you were back.
Cool
Posted by: strangest brew | December 7, 2008 12:36 PM
'This coming from an expert in the science of... what exactly? Advertisement? Public relations? Communication?'
Whatever...methinks her projects must be few and far between because if this is an example of her..."I know how to write a press release and I know how to advertise. That's my business." acumen and professional skill...they must be rarer then 'transitional fossils'...by her reckoning...
As for KC...with or without his band...methinks he has pleasured himself in to paradise...hopefully the rapture will dump him there for an eternity of dirty tissues...that's if he bothers to actually use them...
Posted by: Alex | December 7, 2008 12:37 PM
PO- PO- PO- POE'S LAW
Read it thinking it's satirical and it makes much more sense.
Posted by: Voice 0'Reason | December 7, 2008 12:43 PM
But he arose on the third day and ascended into heaven on a beagle! I reserve the right to burn at the stake anyone who denies it!
Posted by: Black Jack Shellac | December 7, 2008 12:58 PM
It never fails to amaze me at how much love a good christian woman like this Bonnie Cox woman can spread with one misinformed, self-righteous letter. Bonnie, I assume you won't have the stomach to read these comments, but your god doesn't exist, never did, never will. Darwin, I know for a fact, did live, and he was by far a better christian than you will ever be.
Posted by: The MadPanda | December 7, 2008 1:02 PM
blf (#404)
You're very welcome! I keep a copy hanging in my cubicle at work, but rarely have an opportunity to consult it in a timely fashion. The online version is doubtlessly superior.
I need one by the home computer as well. :)
The MadPanda, FCD
Posted by: H.H. | December 7, 2008 1:04 PM
We always said there was only one thing that could take down evolution--facile bonnies in the Precambrian.
Posted by: The Count | December 7, 2008 1:15 PM
1. "...marxist...": Because the hard-wrong wing really misses the old black and white days between 1917 and 1990. R.I.P.
2. "...roman times and their library...": Well, besides the fact that we do in fact have a plenty of Greco-Roman literature, we also have a tremendous amount of literature from the non-European world, such as North Africa, the Middle East and Asia. Central and South Africa also has literature but it tended to stay oral vs written. Sadly, the white guys killed off (in the name of jesus and greed, no less) the Native American civilizations before they could adequately defend themselves. You do remember that the world consists of more than just Europe and North America, don't you?
3. Christians: To go with point 2, it is demonstrable that during the heyday of Christian rule in Europe (that is, when Christian clerics called the shots on secular life) the Islamic world and Asia were more advanced. It is not until the ossification of thought in those areas of the world with the parallel Enlightenment in Europe (that is, the uncoupling of the church from secular life) that Europe becomes more technologically advanced. The Enlightenment, by the way, allowed the scientific method to supplant religious dogma which ultimately developed the technology which allows you spew your ignorance wherever you choose. Robert Merton lives on.
4. Christian fundamentalist prat: That would be you. As an example, whilst I am an atheist, I can appreciate the science of people like Gregor Mendel, a priest, later abbot, who is considered the father of genetics. Charles Darwin, a theology student who was so revered because of his work that he was buried in the holiest of Anglican holies, Westminster Abbey. Isaac Newton, an intensely religious scientist who happens to lie next to Darwin in the Abbey. I'm delighted those three weren't raised by you, imagine the tragic loss to humanity.
5. Off topic: This is really causing a case of cognitive dissonance in me, but even Little Green gooFballs thinks that Ken Ham's museum is a crock and the zoo/museum link wrong. LGF is about as wingnutty as it gets, but even they won't disgrace themselves that much.
6. Hitler: Godwin's La...
Posted by: dahduh | December 7, 2008 1:23 PM
Dear Bonnie,
You could have saved us all a lot of time by expressing yourself more succinctly:
"Dear Mr. Myers,
I'm clearly an ignorant moron.
Respectfully yours, etc"
Though even here you would have gotten the first and last lines wrong.
Posted by: Chiroptera | December 7, 2008 1:34 PM
Thank God my children will have somewhere else to go.
Interesting. Would this be an accredited school?
Posted by: Bubba Sixpack | December 7, 2008 1:42 PM
Bonnie Cox:
"We rehash the same dead, unproven, broken theory when there are so many other questions out there to be asked, researched and experimented with? That sir, is intolerance. That is bigotry. That is ignorance. "
I'm pretty sure the irony is lost on her.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 1:46 PM
Probably IgnoranceRUsTM bible school.Posted by: Neil Schipper | December 7, 2008 1:48 PM
Let x = the satisfaction of anonymously posting insults to Bonnie Cox, and advertising your superior knowledge of science and history.
Let y = the satisfaction of trying to influence your local museum to celebrate the Darwin Bicentennial year, and trying to influence your local zoo to employ signs showing cladograms, and the % DNA an exhibited species shares with other species both living and extinct
Then, x > y
Posted by: Parcaso | December 7, 2008 2:06 PM
This letter is glorious. I really hope she can rally her whopping (and imaginary) 97% of the population for some good ol fashioned hate-yellin'.
I wish I didn't live in Oklahoma, where idiots like her abound and multiply with no restraints.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 2:15 PM
Hm.
The obsessive KC reminds me of Kenny/PlanetKiller, especially in his certainty that the world was going to destroy itself, his martyr complex, and his (almost certainly closeted and self-loathing) homophobia/obsession with homosexuality. While the continued vulgarities and angry crudeness are highly unusual for K/PK, I have an hypothesis: When posting earlier, he was taking his medications (or the medications that he was taking were working, or even unnecessary). His neurochemistry has now changed sufficiently that his brain spiraled out of control.
Posted by: Bubba Sixpack | December 7, 2008 2:18 PM
PZ, did Vox Day comment? I must have missed it. Guess I'll get around to looking for it after I watch paint dry. Or moss grow. Whichever comes last.
Posted by: Bubba Sixpack | December 7, 2008 2:29 PM
KC:
"We only know bits a pieces from the roman times and their library was burnt to the ground and we lost a huge amount of information and knowledge. The same thing is going to happen again as history repeats itself."
Judging by all of the epic fails in the first sentence, it's already happened. In our educational system, anyway.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 2:30 PM
I just wasted an hour and a half of primo procrastination time reading all these comments. Thanks to the person (Noni? Nomi? can't be bothered to find it) who pointed out the one detail of Ms. Cox's diatribe that bothered me most: the creative misuse of "comprise."
As for the lamentedly banninated KC(x):
LOL Wut?
Posted by: older | December 7, 2008 2:30 PM
KC, whyever would I want to suck your ugly little cock, when I have daily access to a larger, handsomer one? (See? I can do it too, and what does it "prove"?)
PZ, I take it you have a no-ban policy?
Posted by: Saber | December 7, 2008 2:49 PM
Lol
Bonnie lass @ #6 thinks PZ is an apostate. Teh fail, it nevah ends.
Rev @ #138 lmao
Ohh, and who wants to bet that poor Bonnie has confused Marxism with Stalinism?
Posted by: BMS | December 7, 2008 2:56 PM
older -
See comment #378.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 2:58 PM
Nope. But it's hard to get banned. They have to work at it.http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
Posted by: GregZ | December 7, 2008 3:01 PM
The disturbing thing about people like Bonnie is that they are intentionally ignorant, and quite proud of it. That was certainly an image put forth by Sarah Palin to appeal to the GOP base.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 3:05 PM
Well, technically speaking, he is.
But so am I.
And so are a lot of people.
Every "deconversion" story is, from the point of view of the adherents of the religion deconverted from, a confession of apostasy.
(But then, the same goes for conversion stories — if a Mormon becomes Catholic, frex, they are an apostatizing from Mormonism)
Theology, it's just full of lulz.
Posted by: Fatpie42 | December 7, 2008 3:06 PM
Alongside evolution, students can learn that humans came from (check all that apply): the dust of the ground; the vomit of a god; driftwood; the blood of Kingu; rocks; etc.
Oooh, I didn't know about that myth. I'd heard the song Blood of Kingu by Therion, but I'd never known what it meant before:
Blood of Kingu myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingu
Therion video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPUS1QgbqYU
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | December 7, 2008 3:06 PM
I don't think so: no NDE references. I think it's one particular troll who uses different nicks to drop a similar pantload on here every time Beale/Day is mentioned, and occasionally otherwise. I think he's probably been previously banned as "Ostiarius" and highly likely to be one of the cabal of slobbering sycophants who spend their time rimming Beale.
Posted by: EB | December 7, 2008 3:08 PM
I think Bonnie (and KC) seem to be looking at this slightly askew. It's not as if PZ & others emailed the Cincinnati zoo and somehow forced them recant the ticket offer. What the crew here did was to point out to the zoo that they had made a move which seemed to go against their charter. With this in mind, the zoo made the decision *themselves* to recant the ticket offer.
It seems to me all those upset at the outcome should complain to the zoo, not PZ. After all, the zoo had the final say.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | December 7, 2008 3:12 PM
I'm shocked.
I was starting to wonder whether he was attempting to hit every offense listed in the rules (I counted insipidity, morphing, slagging, possibly sockpuppetry, stupidity, tolling and wanking).
Also, maybe you should consider adding "failure to pass a Turing test"* to your list, which KCx seemed to be working on pretty diligently.
*ie repeatedly replying to comments with non-sequitur insults to such an extent as to not require any non-machine intervention.
Posted by: Noadi | December 7, 2008 3:15 PM
Why did someone have to post the link to the Vox Day post? I feel like I need a shower now.
Posted by: bluescat48 | December 7, 2008 3:21 PM
What we need is a time machine to transport all these fundies back to the dark ages where they belong. It is obvious that that they have been born in the wrong time. Let them go back to when their mythical beliefs were accepted as truisms because the people of the time were totally ignorant to science and all they had was the biblical myths.
Posted by: Amy | December 7, 2008 3:21 PM
"...You know it, and most of your radical scientists know it."
You get radical scientists? *I* want radical scientists, dang it!
Posted by: EB | December 7, 2008 3:23 PM
@ KC #180
I'm wondering what your point is. If my ancestors 2000 years from now were to have zero evidence of the Holocaust (for whatever reason), and someone came along and suggested this event happened based on some stories passed down through Jewish tradition, I would *expect* my ancestors to be skeptical and to demand evidence. If the evidence is totally lost, oh well.
By the same token, if the divinity of Christ was a reality 2000 years ago, but I now lack evidence of this, no one can blame me for being skeptical. Unlike lost evidence of the Holocaust, God can supply me with the evidence now without a problem. I'll gladly consider it if/when it comes along.
Posted by: wunelle | December 7, 2008 3:32 PM
Wow. What a nutbag. Such desperate intellectual dishonesty in pursuit of a retreating goal.
What's REALLY a failed theory here--and she knows it--is the world of gods and demons and sprites and goblins and faeries as an explanation for anything in the world.
So go ahead and rally your armies. Smoke out all that massed ignorance into the light of day so that the sun of an evidence-based view of the world can begin to dry up the mold of mysticism and fairy tales.
Posted by: a3maniac | December 7, 2008 3:38 PM
Hitler! Marx! Giraffe! Dishwasher! Lamp post!
Oh wait... I thought we were just listing things that have *nothing to do with each other*.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 3:43 PM
ok - sorry! I guess you are right and I was wrong.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 7, 2008 3:59 PM
PZ, I take it you have a no-ban policy?
I think he was just busy having a life or something. ^^
Posted by: strangest brew | December 7, 2008 4:04 PM
'ok - sorry! I guess you are right and I was wrong.'
that's okay Bonny C we all make mistakes..now fuck off back to dumbville there is a good clone...your projects are piling up...
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 4:11 PM
Is that you Bonnie?
nah
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:21 PM
The theory of evolution may be true - but it cannot be proven. You can only prove things in mathematics, not in biology. I cannot prove GOd's existence - but I can believe in it!!
Posted by: Tor A H | December 7, 2008 4:24 PM
It always makes me laugh when asshat creationist boobs use tools that are a result of scientific research (computers, internet, etc.) to spread their anti-scientific batshit crazy ideas and complain that science is wrong.
Posted by: wunelle | December 7, 2008 4:28 PM
Wow. What a nutbag. Such desperate intellectual dishonesty in pursuit of a retreating goal.
What's REALLY a failed theory here--and she knows it--is the world of gods and demons and sprites and goblins and faeries as an explanation for anything in the world.
So go ahead and rally your armies. Smoke out all that massed ignorance into the light of day so that the sun of an evidence-based view of the world can begin to dry up the mold of mysticism and fairy tales.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 4:29 PM
Bonnie, there is scientific proof versus mathematical proof. And evolution has a huge pile of evidence backing it up. Probably over 100,000+ scientific papers. And no unrefuted papers for any other theory. And not even any other theory in the scientific literature. Science can only be refuted with science. Science cannot refute religion, and religion cannot refute science. But religion does look silly when its claims are not backed by science.
If you choose to believe in something without proof, do so, but nobody else has to follow you. Personally, until there is positive physical proof for god, god doesn't exist. Occam's razor. Besides, which of the 1000+ gods do you believe in? All the rest, your are an atheist on. We just believe in one less god than you.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 4:32 PM
The same goes for every scientific theory out there — including the theory of gravity and germ theory.
Oh, and the theories of electricity and communications that enable you to connect to the internet on a computer.
Science looks for evidence, and attempts to falsify theories. Non-falsification of theories provides further evidence.
Do you have falsifiable hypotheses about God's existence?
Posted by: Rowan | December 7, 2008 4:33 PM
i read bonnie's letter, then enjoyed the extensive number of posts in this thread.
truly amazing how hypocritical bonnie shows herself to be in her missive. sadly, i am certain she doesn't recognise herself as such. i would like to recommend to her the use of an online spellchecker. they come in handy for writing professional correspondence and disguising a lack of education.
KC# shall be missed. i would have liked to have fed him some road kill i came across earlier this morning whilst driving the backcountry.
thank you, PZ, for today's distraction from the vagaries of the world.
Posted by: Sherry | December 7, 2008 4:33 PM
There's a Bonnie Cox who is a member of a United Methodist church in a Cincinnati suburb. I don't they are the same person though, because the Methodists just aren't that "oogedy- boogedy". (Borrowed from Kathleen Parker -- noted conservative columnist)
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:34 PM
@Nerd of Redhead: Why are you so aggressive? I feel very relaxed (maybe you should pray to GOd).
"If you choose to believe in something without proof, do so,...": That is precisely what I am going to do. And I recommend you to relax a little (and pray)
Posted by: Katharine | December 7, 2008 4:35 PM
You fucking idiotic godbot.
Evolution has MOUNTAINS of evidence - have you ever read a scientific article? There are thousands of scientific papers backing us up.
You have no proof for your imaginary friend, so your belief that you have an imaginary friend is ridiculous. You might as well believe in a teapot on the other side of the sun or an invisible pink unicorn.
Fuck off, you un-American, unscientific shitbag, and take the rest of your cult with you.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:36 PM
@Owlmirror: You ask "Do you have falsifiable hypotheses about God's existence?"
My answer: No, I dont.
Posted by: Dale Headley | December 7, 2008 4:36 PM
In 1935, penicillin became widely available to the public. Immediately it was predicted that many of the bacteria it kills would no longer be affected by it. Who predicted this? Not the ministers, priests, and rabbis, not the Bible, not theological seminary professors. It was the evolutionary biologists. They confidently predicted it because the Theory of Evolution rendered it inevitable. Charles Darwin himself made a prediction (one of many similar ones) that a moth with an 11" proboscis would one day be discovered on a particular island in the Galapagos. 40 years later, one was discovered. How did Darwin know this? Because he had discovered a flower that could only have EVOLVED in conjunction with a moth that had a proboscis long enough to reach down to the stamens and pollinate it. Darwin's theory has been proven beyond any doubt time and again. No educated scientist in the world (unless you consider Michael Behe "educated") doubts evolution. Scientists have proven empirically the truth of the Theory of Evolution. I have yet to see, hear, smell, taste, or touch any thing such as a god. The writer of the email should read "Evolution 101," by Randy Moore and Janice Moore. Ir explains evolution so clearly, concisely, and forcefully that even this ignorant writer could understand it. But of course, she won't, because people like her cling tenaciously to the myths and fairy stories they learned on their parents' knees; and because they are so fearful of death that evidence that life eventually ends is too horrible for them to contemplate.
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 4:37 PM
Speaking as a former gifted fifth grader, I resent that comparison.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:38 PM
@Katharine: "Evolution has MOUNTAINS of evidence"
Evidence is not the same like a proof you imbecile cretin
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 4:38 PM
Bonnie, back to the concern mode. We've seen a lot of it lately.
How was I aggressive? Denying the existence of imaginary beings is aggressive? Point out the difference be scientific proof and mathematical proof aggressive? Or is your insult meter set too low?
Posted by: MrMarkAZ | December 7, 2008 4:39 PM
True, but Dr. Myers can write intelligently, and well, on any number of topics. Ms. Cox is hard-pressed to write a sentence that
a) contains accurate information on the subject of evolution, and
b) employs standard punctuation, spelling, capitalization and syntax.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:41 PM
I think we should all pray together now:
Dear God, please take care of my daddy,
mommy, sister, brother, my doggy and me. Oh, please take care of
yourself, God. If anything happens to you, we're gonna be in a big mess.
Posted by: Steve_C | December 7, 2008 4:43 PM
Bonnie is clueless.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 4:43 PM
You can empirically prove it by gathering an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports it and which could potentially falsify it.Looking at our genome and seeing how close we are to chimps - falsifiable evidence that supports evolution. Fused chimpanzee chromosome - falsifiable evidence. The fossil record of intermediate forms between our ancestors and us - falsifiable evidence that supports evolution. Observed mutation, adaptation through natural selection, and speciation - falsifiable evidence that supports evolution.
It's a false dichotomy to say it's either able to be mathematically proved or it's a belief like the belief in God. Especially because a mathematical proof can be wrong if it doesn't support the evidence. The empirical evidence is the most important thing in science, and the empirical evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 4:43 PM
Bonnie, Your imaginary god doesn't exist, so he won't answer. Prayer is mental masturbation. It should be done in private.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | December 7, 2008 4:46 PM
Bonnie:
"Evidence is not the same like a proof you imbecile cretin"
I'm sorry. I know that you are hopelessly outnumbered here, and that some commenters are less than gracious in their approach.
But, are you serious?
Posted by: Moses | December 7, 2008 4:47 PM
Barring an apocalyptic event, that destroys the human race there almost certainly will be. Just as there is evidence of ancient Egypt 1000's of years older than your Jesus myth.
Which is one of the kickers. There is lots of evidence for a lot semi-mythical people and/or events. But, except for the circular reasoning of "the bible proves it" there is no for Jesus Zombie.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 4:47 PM
Awww, haven't you heard the the madman?Gott ist todt! Gott bleibt todt! Und wir haben ihn getödtet!
(God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed him! )
"Was sind denn diese Kirchen noch, wenn sie nicht die Grüfte und Grabmäler Gottes sind?"
("What are these churches now, if they are not the tombs and monuments of God?" )
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:48 PM
← prev | next →
Our lager
Which art in barrels
Hallowed be thy drink
Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk)
At home as it is in the tavern
Give us this day our foamy head
And forgive us our spillage
As we forgive those who spill against us
And lead us not into incarceration
But deliver us from hangovers
For thine is the beer, the bitter, and the lager
Barmen
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:50 PM
Gott ist tot! Gott bleibt tot! Und wir haben ihn getötet! Wie trösten wir uns, die Mörder aller Mörder?
Posted by: Katharine | December 7, 2008 4:51 PM
You have NO evidence, you anencephalic, credulous fuck. Evidence is REQUIRED for proof, and we in fact have proof.
You haven't even demonstrated that you can think logically - you're exhorting your illogic-ridden claims of your supposed scientificness but you FAIL, you utterly FAIL.
Go back to your little cult and stay there and keep your crackers to yourself.
You can't even deliver an argument, you've just been making brainless mocking. Shove your fucking bible where the sun doesn't shine.
You fuckheads are going to drive the world into the dark ages - in the meantime, stop using our medicine, because you apparently are so benighted as to deny how we arrived at it.
DIAF, you uneducated, moronic pile of shit.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:51 PM
dear jebus - a sacriligious agnostics prayer
dear jebus
please give me the strength to get through this day without fucking off someone on the way to or from work
please give me the strength to answer my phone "good day" instead of "what the fuck do you want"
please offer me the ability to maintain a conscious cool when i'm hungry and haven't been able to go to lunch yet
please give me the strength not to strangle the person walking 2 mph in front of me when i'm trying to get food
please provide me with the power to restrain myself from reaching over the counter and jabbing a soda cup down the throat of the overweight fast food server who's waddling around and not giving me my grilled chicken burger
please give me the strength to deal with ignorance on a daily basis
but most of all jebus... PLEASE give me the strength to get through one more boring pain in the ass motherfucking goddamned piece of shit ass pussy smelling day without taking my own life
Posted by: chancelikely | December 7, 2008 4:52 PM
Sherry #453: I don't they are the same person though, because the Methodists just aren't that "oogedy- boogedy".
I grew up in the UMC; you can be almost anywhere on the theological spectrum and still fit in with the Methodists. Most of the members of the church I grew up in are just on this side of closet agnostics, but many members of congregations in less liberal areas are indistinguishable from Baptists or what-have-you. Methodism is kind of like tofu, it takes on the flavors of whatever's next to it.
Posted by: Moses | December 7, 2008 4:52 PM
You thin-skinned twit, you were mocked because your argument is stupid. We know lots of things about large historic events from four and five thousand years ago.
And, with the dissemination of knowledge through the world, it would take an extinction-event to erase the Holocaust from history.
Posted by: Katharine | December 7, 2008 4:53 PM
It is times like this I wish we had some lions. Metaphorical ones, but lions all the same.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 4:53 PM
Has KC come back as Bonnie?
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 4:55 PM
I was under the impression that is what's in PZ dungeon.Posted by: Katharine | December 7, 2008 4:56 PM
Dear FSM,
Protect me from the Christians and don't let them make me any angrier than they've already made me with their stupidity.
I have a fairly good day until they start spewing bullshit.
Ramen,
Katharine.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 4:56 PM
Oh my fucking god - it is soo great fun to pretend to be Bonnie. You guys dont realize _anything_ MUHUHAHAHAHA
Posted by: Azkyroth | December 7, 2008 4:57 PM
Would you advocate releasing everyone who's ever been convicted of a crime? Because those convictions were made on the basis of "evidence," not "proof."
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 4:57 PM
Sure you can, sure you can. *shrug* Please do.But while you're at it, please realize that your belief in the GOd whose existence you cannot prove is in no way comparable to my "belief" that evolution is the explanation for life's demonstrable diversity and unity.
You choose to believe in a GOd (unusual spelling, by the way, but I'm following your lead as a token of my respect for your beliefs) for which you can produce no meaningful evidence at all. You believe because of "faith," plus (if you're among the extremely lucky few that claim to have attracted GOd's direct interest) "personal revelation."
My "belief" in biological evolution is quite different. It is based on learning as much as I can about biological systems--both by book learnin' and by actually performing scientific studies to answer my own questions--and about current ideas about how evolution works/could work/might work, and then thinking hard about whether there is any mismatch between what I know--these are empirical observations supplemented by sophisticated statistical analyses--and what would be predicted from my current knowledge of evolutionary processes.
There is never, ever, the slightest mismatch. Oh, occasionally I'll read something and my BS-meter tingles and I'll mutter "wtf? how could that have evolved?" but it always turns out either that the original information was wrong, garbled, or misinterpreted OR that I learn something new about evolution.
Can you spot the difference? Your belief is a priori and dogmatically unwavering; anything that contradicts your belief or threatens the Truth of your belief or might even just slightly undermine your belief is deemed wrong (or, in a real weasel-move, "possibly true but not provable!!!) without further thought. My "belief" is tested every...single...day and so far so good.
That's one major difference. Another, of course, is that I know what I'm talking about.
Posted by: Timothy Wood | December 7, 2008 4:58 PM
...somehow I don't think that's the real bonnie.
Posted by: Katharine | December 7, 2008 4:58 PM
That was a poe? Wow.
Points for accurately capturing the fundies' stupidity.
Posted by: tresmal | December 7, 2008 5:03 PM
"bonnie" is clearly KC, and accurately capturing the fundies' stupidity comes naturally to him. Time for more bannage.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 5:03 PM
I feed very bored and would like to do something blasphemic. Any ideas?
Posted by: Connie Box | December 7, 2008 5:06 PM
Bonnie, Bonnie Bonnie...It's Connie here, your writing coach. Your letter is good, lots of passion, but way way way too long and repetitive. Look, I've taken your text and edited it down for coherence--I haven't changed any words or altered the order, I've just cut out all the dross. What do you think? Much better, isn't it sweetie? You really shouldn't write when your dander is up. Love from your sister in Christ--Connie xoxox
-------------------
CONNIE BOX'S EDIT OF BONNIE COX'S LETTER
I am your personal vendetta Mr. Hamm. I don't know what your ultimate agenda is but your ignorance is apparent. How someone so intolerant and closed minded could possibly be considered educated is beyond my comprehension. What scares me is that people like you indoctrinate with propaganda. You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor, you should know that Christian Colleges can't prove creation. No one can. So why rehash the same dead, unproven, intolerance? That is bigotry. That is ignorance. I don't think the Cincinatti Zoo will be thanking you.
I know how to blitz Christians. I am suddenly motivated to hit every parent in this country to let them know exactly what dangers their kids face, risking having you indoctrinate all those Christian families. I'll make sure you get plenty of credit for your failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested. You know your god is dead. I just wanted to let you know how to bully others.
I hope this does offend you God. You are the one who needs it.
Respectfully,
Bonnie Cox
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 5:07 PM
Ah, I see. What a waste of time.
p.s. "blasphemic"? Maybe this person does comprise from the original Bonnie...
Posted by: Badger3k | December 7, 2008 5:08 PM
Do we call Poe? The "sacriligious (sic) agnostics (sic) prayer" is way too much. The beer prayer and the dog prayer were on the funny side, but the last was just too lame even for a theistard. So far there haven't been homoerotic imagery, so I doubt it is KC come back, but I also doubt this individual is the same as the one who wrote the email (I think the attempt to sound like a fifth grader - apologies to most 5th graders - is a bit much as well).
Of course, I could be wrong - the evidence can go either way in this case.
Posted by: Connie Box | December 7, 2008 5:09 PM
two girls one cup
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 5:11 PM
we are a bunch of drunk teenagers in Denmark (11pm local time) making fun out of you americans. Thank you and good night!
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 5:13 PM
Then perhaps you can understand why I am an atheist; why so many of us here are atheists:
Does a God who provides no evidence of his existence make any sense at all?
I used to wonder if perhaps there was something vast and incomprehensible and utterly silent out there. I still do so wonder sometimes.
But the God of the bible is not so completely ineffable. The God of the bible wants certain things to happen or not happen. The God of the bible is claimed to have created humans in his own image; a God who understood the frailties of human knowledge would not remain silent in the face of our utter ignorance of what God actually wants.
The God of the bible is claimed to have done certain things a few thousand years ago. We now have genuine testable, falsifiable methods to date when things happened, with an understandable degree of uncertainty that becomes greater the further back in time we look.
We now know what to look for, and we know that what we find when looking at the earth and the universe around us does not match what is in the bible.
Creationists do not doubt carbon dating when it is used to date a fishing boat dug up on the shore of the Galilee to around the time of Jesus, or similar dating methods of other artifacts from the Middle Eastern areas the bible stories come from when the archeology confirms places and people mentioned in the bible.
Yet similar radio-element dating of geological strata is rejected by creationists, despite the fact that it works on the exact same quantum mechanical principles as the carbon-dating they accept when it's something they like.
And we have other, multiple methods to date things in the universe. They work. They are based on falsifiable physical principles that are known, and work for other areas of science and technology that those same creationists use every single day.
Everything we can tell about the bible and the universe, from archeology and the more physical sciences, is that the bible is a book of stories, made up by human beings who did not know how to find evidence of how the universe formed, and how the earth itself formed and changed over the time of its existence.
And the Creation Museum says that all these dating methods and scientific findings are wrong, and that the bible is literally true. This is deeply hypocritical. This is anti-science and pseudo-science being given precedence over real science.
And that is why people complained to the Cincinnati Zoo about associating with the Creation Museum. As Sastra points out elsewhere, the Creation Museum has the right to claim and promote what it does, but it is deeply inappropriate for the Zoo to co-operate with the Creation Museum.
No-one forced the zoo to drop the offer. The zoo officials made the decision on their own once the complaints were made.
One final thought: Despite the Museum having the right to say what it does, "freedom of speech" is the weakest of arguments to rely on.
Science has stronger standards than just free speech.
Posted by: HappyKiwi | December 7, 2008 5:15 PM
For the record--the edited letter from Connie Box was mine...I arrived late to the party and didn't want to miss all the fun. I don't know who the other Connie is, or the other person stealing my Connie Box persona. This blog needs assigned avatars to prove ownership of all humorous and off-color posts. The real 'Connie Box' will not post again. Trust no one...
Posted by: Tor A H | December 7, 2008 5:16 PM
Hell hath no fury like the vast robot army of a woman scorned.
Posted by: Bonnie | December 7, 2008 5:26 PM
Then perhaps you can understand why I am an atheist; why so many of us here are atheists:
Does a God who provides no evidence of his existence make any sense at all?
I used to wonder if perhaps there was something vast and incomprehensible and utterly silent out there. I still do so wonder sometimes.
But the God of the bible is not so completely ineffable. The God of the bible wants certain things to happen or not happen. The God of the bible is claimed to have created humans in his own image; a God who understood the frailties of human knowledge would not remain silent in the face of our utter ignorance of what God actually wants.
The God of the bible is claimed to have done certain things a few thousand years ago. We now have genuine testable, falsifiable methods to date when things happened, with an understandable degree of uncertainty that becomes greater the further back in time we look.
We now know what to look for, and we know that what we find when looking at the earth and the universe around us does not match what is in the bible.
Creationists do not doubt carbon dating when it is used to date a fishing boat dug up on the shore of the Galilee to around the time of Jesus, or similar dating methods of other artifacts from the Middle Eastern areas the bible stories come from when the archeology confirms places and people mentioned in the bible.
Yet similar radio-element dating of geological strata is rejected by creationists, despite the fact that it works on the exact same quantum mechanical principles as the carbon-dating they accept when it's something they like.
And we have other, multiple methods to date things in the universe. They work. They are based on falsifiable physical principles that are known, and work for other areas of science and technology that those same creationists use every single day.
Everything we can tell about the bible and the universe, from archeology and the more physical sciences, is that the bible is a book of stories, made up by human beings who did not know how to find evidence of how the universe formed, and how the earth itself formed and changed over the time of its existence.
And the Creation Museum says that all these dating methods and scientific findings are wrong, and that the bible is literally true. This is deeply hypocritical. This is anti-science and pseudo-science being given precedence over real science.
And that is why people complained to the Cincinnati Zoo about associating with the Creation Museum. As Sastra points out elsewhere, the Creation Museum has the right to claim and promote what it does, but it is deeply inappropriate for the Zoo to co-operate with the Creation Museum.
No-one forced the zoo to drop the offer. The zoo officials made the decision on their own once the complaints were made.
One final thought: Despite the Museum having the right to say what it does, "freedom of speech" is the weakest of arguments to rely on.
Science has stronger standards than just free speech.
#492
Posted by: HappyKiwi | December 7, 2008 5:15 PM
For the record--the edited letter from Connie Box was mine...I arrived late to the party and didn't want to miss all the fun. I don't know who the other Connie is, or the other person stealing my Connie Box persona. This blog needs assigned avatars to prove ownership of all humorous and off-color posts. The real 'Connie Box' will not post again. Trust no one...
#493
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 5:28 PM
Another beautiful hypothesis slain by some ugly facts. Oh, well.
Didn't we argue, a while back, about having md5sums/sha1sums of e-mail addresses (or something similar) appended to posts?
Maybe I should be signing with a public key...
Posted by: DingoDave | December 7, 2008 5:30 PM
-"Evolution is a failed hypothesis. It cannot even be scientifically tested."
Bonnie,
Whoever told you this was lying to you, and you are either wittingly, or unwittingly spreading the lie.
Remember what your 'Good Book' says about liars.
"Beware then of useless murmuring, and keep your tongue from slander; because...a lying mouth destroys the soul."
And,
"Truthful lips endure for ever, but...Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD"
Speaking of liars: Why weren't Bill Buckingham and Alan Bonsell, who lied in their sworn statements, and to the judge during the Dover trial, brought up on perjury charges?
Posted by: Bob | December 7, 2008 5:30 PM
Alice? Is that you? I mean, really you?
Posted by: Eve | December 7, 2008 5:33 PM
Why, yes, Bob, of course it is me, Alice.
How could you doubt me?
Posted by: Monado in Toronto | December 7, 2008 5:34 PM
The encouraging thing about the Cincinnati zoo pulling its inappropriate partnership with the Creationism Museum was that two people wrote really nice letters supporting the zoo sticking to science. And then someone wrote a letter saying they were disappointed. Virtually all the following comments were pro-science, along the lines of "The zoo is a place where science prevails not religion."
Posted by: Mrs Tilton | December 7, 2008 5:43 PM
Noni and Sven,
you're right. The worst thing about this woman is that she cannot write English. (We shouldn't be hard on her though, as it obviously isn't her first language.)
It's a useful heuristic, I think, that when you see somebody trying to use the word "comprise" but unable to do so correctly, you can pretty much ignore anything else they might possibly have to say. (And, oh: "comprise of" is pretty bad, but just this past week I was dismayed to see "comprise with".)
Posted by: Sanity Jane | December 7, 2008 5:45 PM
Valis @ #359:
Maybe their gods were illiterate?
Posted by: Aftergloom | December 7, 2008 5:53 PM
Raving lunatic FTW.
Posted by: Shiftingname | December 7, 2008 6:37 PM
RICK!!!!! Those are FANTASTIC. I immediately envisioned going to the local megachurch ( http://www.angelustemple.org/ )and handing them out/leaving them by the door with a sign that says "love is the answer" or something...and wait to see how long it would take for them to show up along the "Jesus is God read the bible" bumperstickers on the same car!!!
P.S. - I never understood "jesus is god read the bible", and not for lack of commas. Isn't Jesus the son of god or 1/3 of god or something? Doesn't the bible...aw, hell, what, I'm trying to make sense of it now?
Posted by: damnedyankee | December 7, 2008 6:53 PM
Too bad KC got banned, in a way. Considering the downward curve his rhetoric was taking, I have to wonder how long it would have been before he finally just started posting utter gibberish: "Ufhght! Fauty hgklns dfvnoghiubn jksdf bjkg? Fuck!"
Posted by: Vic | December 7, 2008 6:55 PM
I have learned that the trinity means one thing: "sit down and shut up". For all extents and purposes it appears to be nonsensical on purpose to convince people they need to leave the theology to the big boys. Typical baffle with bullshit tactic.
Posted by: Gordy | December 7, 2008 7:25 PM
Well, she kept us waiting for the punchline, but...
"Respectfully"
...it was laugh out loud funny!
Also, I must have missed something - the connection between PZ Myers and Karl Marx isn't immediately obvious to me.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 7:43 PM
Hi Larry! Did you read any of KC's idiotic "comments" or are you just being your usual off-the-meds irrelevant self? Hmmm?
Posted by: Shiftingname | December 7, 2008 7:43 PM
Huh, "arbitrary censorship"? Yes, I certainly can't imagine why in the world that KC fellow and not someone else wone the dungeon lottery.
I blame the illuminati or something. Didn't you know PZ is like totally a freemason, too?
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 7:46 PM
Banning a troll is not censorship.
As for evolution, the battleground is not the blogosphere. If KC has an argument against evolution, he can write it up and submit it for peer review. Arguing for or against evolution on here doesn't change the scientific establishment, if evolution is going to be superseded, it's going to happen in the lab.
Posted by: Gordy | December 7, 2008 7:48 PM
Farry Lafarman - Perhaps you could go back to KC's posts and tell us if any of them contained any reasonable arguments either for or against "Darwinism". I couldn't see any. If you can't find any either, I'm sure you'll be good enough to withdraw your allegation that PZ is trying to make sure that only his agenda is heard. Unless and until he starts preventing people from posting because they presented some evidence against evolution, you cannot justify that claim.
Posted by: Shiftingname | December 7, 2008 7:50 PM
"You and the rest of the Darwinist liars (Fatheaded Ed Brayton, Greg "Osama Bin" Laden, Wesley "Ding" Elsberry) never miss an opportunity to make sure that your agenda is the only one heard, do you, dunghill?"
Yes, our AGENDA, mwa ah a ha!We shall use sinister means to.....STUDY THINGS USING THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD!And from this we shall make EEEvil advances in medicine, technology, and all kinds of other things! Things we don't even know exist yet!
Be afraid, fundamentlist Christians, we might bring forth .....CARS THAT CAN RUN ON ELECRTICITY! or, howabaout a VACCINE FOR AIDS!!!! Maybe we can even figure out WAYS TO TREAT GENETIC DISEASES!!!!
OUR AGENDA IS PURE EVIL!!!
(cue references to thalidomide, nuclear bombs, eugenics in...)
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 7:50 PM
Could you please stop calling us Darwinists? If anything we are Hubbleists - the universe is expanding and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do about it.Posted by: Moses | December 7, 2008 7:52 PM
Crazy Larry has learned how to spoof! Hey, how are you crazy Larry? Still making a damn fool of yourself all over the Internets?
Oh, why did I ask, he asks rhetorically, YES YOU ARE!!! It's what you do you nut-bag loser.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 7:54 PM
Yes, Larry, you're right. For we are but blindly hero-worshipping sycophants, unable to think for ourselves and dedicated to ruthlessly quelling any perceived dissent from our dogmatic agenda.
OK? Maybe go away now?
Posted by: shonny | December 7, 2008 7:55 PM
[This response is taken out of context, and aimed at Bonnie the cretin Cox]There is no proof, and no likelihood that there ever was any Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and something that never was cannot die.
Yes, Darwin is dead, but that's because he really was. As is his theory. Living on. Real. Useful. Logical. Intelligent. Scientific.
Words that has no relevance to religion, god, or jesus motherfuckin' christ!
Posted by: Sanity Jane | December 7, 2008 7:55 PM
I'm getting in a little late on this, but, re: Rev. BigDumbChimp @ #105:
SJ [mopping merlot spray off monitor]: Voxie Boy, is that a declaration of your inadequacies, a cry for help, or both? Though IANADNDIPOPTV, I'd recommend a visit to your local free clinic for a diagnosis and, as indicated, a course of cephalosporins - I hear they're the current treatment of choice for "flaming sword" since many strains have EVOLVED RESISTANCE to other antibiotics. Or you could just try praying it away. In any case, no more bareback. If those cheap hookers don't provide complimentary condoms, bring your own!
What most amuses me about Cox and Vox is how they try to bolster their shallow, insecure "faith" by intervening on their impotent Imaginary Friend's behalf. Here's some advice for you kiddies straight from a Christian bumper sticker: Let go, and let God. (If you think He's real, and if you think He can, of course.)
I'm with DrFish: If their delusions were truth and people like this populated "heaven," I'd happily join the sane, loving, intelligent people in the "other place," whatever its nature might be.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 8:02 PM
See what Larry does there, with the rhyming of "Sleazy" and "PZ"? It just never gets old!
Posted by: Jadehawk | December 7, 2008 8:03 PM
If you want to be taken seriously, I'd strongly suggest you do not use words which meaning you do not know.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 8:03 PM
That we live in an expanding universe?Posted by: Shiftingname | December 7, 2008 8:03 PM
Please do tell, I really want to understand, Farry, what is our agenda? Last I checked Osama Bin Laden was neither an atheist nor scientist. Nor a Marxist...so...
Also, I kind of like the idea of all this BVD-clad-ness.
Posted by: Loki | December 7, 2008 8:06 PM
Larry barfed:
Truth Will Out!
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 7, 2008 8:07 PM
Ignore Larry the Banned. He's just come to rant. If he had an argument, he'd have made it years ago.
Hey, Larry! Let's play "dance, trollboy, dance"! How do you explain stupid design? Like using DNA as the material of heredity when DNA falls apart when stored in water.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 8:11 PM
Just a quick point of information for those that don't know what a treat this is, L*rry F*f*rm*n (letter 'a' altered to avoid automatic moderation) is a near-legendary figure in the internet creationist wars. A glance at PZ's Dungeon will show that Larry has the honor of being listed first and foremost. He is dumb as a post, crazy as a loon, and stubborn as a mule, and has been so for many years. Go ahead, click over to his blog for laffs. A dedicated obsessive, Larry's usual style of argument includes humorous nicknames for his chosen foes, such as Judge "Jackass" Jones (who seems to draw nearly as much of Larry's ire as does PZ Myers). He's one of a kind, and his little drive-bys here are all too rare.
*waves again* Hi, Larry!
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble | December 7, 2008 8:17 PM
Greetings evil atheist Pharyngulites--Smoggy here, stopping over from my usual home at God's Blog (www.stuffgodhates.com) because I heard my good friend and fellow sheep molester "F-Farry Anal-Ram" (excuse the stutter) is over here gingering things up. He's a real card, is Farry, bitter and edgy, he's the man who put the 'act' into reactionary and the 'anus' into AmericANUS. But don't be too hard on him--if you had a difficult birth you'd be a little twisted and have a head with one flat side as well. As least he can write in words of more than one syllable now--'sleazy barf vomit' is a quantum leap in sophistication for Mrs Anal-Ram's little F-farry. Well done graduating from 'poo-poo' and 'pee-pee' Farry, you're a credit to your evolution.
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 8:18 PM
Keep up the good fight Larry. Perhaps one day we'll all eat humble pie and you will be shrouded as the champion who revolutionised science in a manner not seen since Newton. But if you keep wasting your time here, how will you be able to complete your magnum opus and submit it to the world?
Posted by: SC | December 7, 2008 8:21 PM
OK, I admit it - "Greg 'Osama Bin' Laden" is still making me laugh. Sorry, but they are funny.
Posted by: Shiftingname | December 7, 2008 8:24 PM
You know what I don't understand? I just turned on one of the PBS stations on TV and you know what's on? These Irish people singing about Christmas, complete with a Christmas tree.
I thought that we (liberal, pinko, elite PBS watchers)had waged a full on war on Christmas....oh, wait, I get it. The fact that they're Irish means that they're UnAmerican, and the Christmas tree is a pagan symbol, so what I'm seeing isn't a lovely holiday presentation on PBS, but the promotion of an un-American, pagan agenda, indoctrinating unsuspecting viewers.
Not like the well-researched, peer-reviewed science presented on TBN's science show.
Oh, wait....
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 8:29 PM
Larry do you have something to present here as some sort of refutation of ...well anything or are you just here to let us know you're still off your rocker and hurtling head first into dementia?
Posted by: gil mann | December 7, 2008 8:30 PM
Echoing SC, "Wesley 'Ding' Elsberry" is wonderfully subtle.
We've gotta find a worthwhile pursuit for this guy.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 7, 2008 8:33 PM
Oh come on now Lar. You know that isn't true and even if it was, he was right.
Tell us where he was wrong.
Pretty please?
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | December 7, 2008 8:34 PM
Wait a minute. PZ is a virgin? This means....
OMG! Skatje is the Messiah!!!11one!!
Posted by: Kel | December 7, 2008 8:38 PM
What I loved about the trial on intelligent design is that the Discovery Institute wouldn't defend I.D. under oath - to a conservative judge they initially labelled a good appointment.
Posted by: llewelly | December 7, 2008 8:41 PM
Better keep your aluminium foil hat on. If it slips our mind-control satellites will get you too.Posted by: Steve_C | December 7, 2008 8:45 PM
haha Larry!
It's not like the case wasn't a foregone conclusion! EVERYONE knew how it was going to play out... except perhaps those dumb enough to think that ID is science and not disguised creationism.
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble | December 7, 2008 8:46 PM
F-farry mate, Smoggy Batzrubble here--your old friend from Stuff God Hates. God says he's pleased with the effort you're putting into sorting out the evil atheists, and as a reward he'll clear up that nasty genital infection you have. But NO MORE PUBLIC RESTROOMS!
Your friend Smog
PS Mama Anal-Ram wants to know when you'll be home for din-dins F-farry. She's a bit cross 'cos you forgot to put on a clean diaper this morning.
Posted by: Aquaria | December 7, 2008 8:50 PM
I have a feeling that KC was a Vox Day adherent. He was actually on the brighter side of the spectrum there. Scary, I know.
Posted by: Insightful Ape | December 7, 2008 8:51 PM
Dear original Bonnie Cox(if she exists):
While the chances that you will see my post are almost negligible, in case you do, here's a piece of advice:
The "Marxist" slander was used just recently against an individual whose middle name is Hussein. Sorry to break it to you but, it didn't work. You may want to be more original.
My the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you. You will need it.
Respectfully yours,
Insightful Ape
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 7, 2008 9:00 PM
Hey, Larry! Answer my question! Dance! :-)
Posted by: clinteas | December 7, 2008 9:02 PM
So this is what teens get up to in Denmark when theyre drunk?
And the collection of total lunatics in this thread is in deed a little worrysome.
Posted by: Matt Gerber | December 7, 2008 9:04 PM
You know PZ, sometimes I'm a little jealous of what you get in your inbox. I couldn't pay for comedy like this.
The "fairy tale" of evolution... haha, oh man.
Posted by: Twin-Skies | December 7, 2008 9:21 PM
"Let's see how your school handles an email blitz from Christians (which I will point out to you sir, comprises of approximately 97% of the population of the United States). "
Tyranny of the majority. So she threatens us with a logical fallacy. Terrific. And just how many Christians within that percentage does she think agrees with her insanity?
Posted by: Rowan | December 7, 2008 9:27 PM
um, does f/larry(?) ever have anything worthwhile to say to add to the discourse or does he simply hurl invectives and insults?
thank you, Sven DiMilo @#526, for explaining who he is.
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 9:29 PM
If he did, he wouldn't be plonked, now would he?
Posted by: Twin-Skies | December 7, 2008 9:32 PM
@Farry
I'm a also regular at the GamePolitics blogs, though it's been real quiet over there ever since Anti-gaming nutzoid Jack Thompson had been disbarred and demoted to crazy right-wing pundit.
Thank you. You're made a terrific replacement for JT - just as nutty and colorful...like this year's Xmas fruitcake!
Posted by: Mr Twiddle | December 7, 2008 9:37 PM
#111 - RamblinDude -"It's like there is a time portal open somewhere, and people from the 12th century keep popping up." - I like it. It's your turn to guard the portal and whack the mole when it pops its head out.
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble | December 7, 2008 10:03 PM
I agree with Clinteas @543, there are too many many friggin loonies turning up here. F-farry Anal-Ram and I are trying to be serious...and all you other dipwicks lower the whole tone. Might I recommend that all you lightweights pop on over to God's blog (Stuff God Hates) and Super-Yaheweh will smite you with some painful warty affliction on your privates. That'll teach you a bit of perspective.
F-farry mate, where are you? Mama Anal-Ram has got cookies and milk out for you. And she's worried your diaper needs changing...
Posted by: Ellid | December 7, 2008 10:08 PM
Actually, I rather like your blog. Then again I'm a Unitarian, not an evangelical, so I guess I don't count.
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | December 7, 2008 10:27 PM
You ever get the chance, compare what a creationist and a Obama Truther says about evidence that contradicts what they believe sometime. It's the same basic reasoning. Namely, "It doesn't say what I want it to say, therefor it must be false, or it must actually say what I want it to say." You can play the same game with Holocaust Denial and 9/11 Trutherism.
Never trust anyone who places his feelings above readily obtainable evidence. Especially when he agrees with you.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 7, 2008 10:33 PM
Sorry. A what?Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 7, 2008 10:38 PM
Sven, remember EricA? I think he thought he was an Obama Truther
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 10:47 PM
Inferring that it's a similar construction to 9/11 Truther, presumably one who holds that the truth about Obama is that he is secretly a Muslin (sic), or even worse, conspiring with terrorists to attack America!1!! (see the comments of Cynthia Dunbar linked to in the "public schools are screwed up" thread)
Posted by: Owlmirror | December 7, 2008 10:52 PM
Indeed, copying and pasting from that thread:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Texas_official_Obama_plotting_with_terrorists.html
Posted by: SC | December 7, 2008 10:57 PM
Ad Populum.
Better than being threatened with Occam's razor! :)
Posted by: Wowbagger | December 7, 2008 10:58 PM
OT - gun manufacturers creating concealable pistols especially for the elderly that will be subsidised by the government. No, I'm not kidding. Go here to read about it.
I can see the corpses piling up at bingo halls across the nation.
Posted by: Twin-Skies | December 7, 2008 11:25 PM
@SC
There is a fine line between KISS, and oversimplifying issues. She almost levelled a Godwin at PZ though:
"You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor..."
Posted by: Ted Powell | December 8, 2008 12:06 AM
Farry Lafarman, #532
Non sequitur. The judge is entitled to include whichever portions of whichever briefs were submitted to him that he pleases when he is writing his findings. They were, after all, written for him. His selection of which parts to use is influenced by his conclusions, not the other way around, as you seem to be suggesting.If you were to spend some time over at http://www.groklaw.net/ you might get some insight into how these things are handled.
Posted by: skepsci | December 8, 2008 12:09 AM
I don't think email addresses would work all that well, since you can use whatever email you want, so all you would have to do to pretend to be someone is guess their email. Very hard in some cases, but very easy in others. I think IP addresses would make more sense, but I think it should be possible to register a username and so this would only be needed for anonymous commenters.
In any case, I imagine you would have to take it up with ScienceBlogs.
Posted by: Alex | December 8, 2008 12:13 AM
Is it really necessary to denigrate the writer for her gender? The same moronic email could have been written just as easily by a man, and her gender has as much to with the stupidity of her rant as her race.
Posted by: SC | December 8, 2008 2:57 AM
Huh? Did you not get my little joke?
Posted by: Twin-Skies | December 8, 2008 3:45 AM
@SC
Occam's razor....I got it XD
Sorry, I was taking it a little too seriously.
Posted by: Pikemann Urge | December 8, 2008 4:02 AM
It's funny how most people comment when comments are purely redundant. Ms. Cox's e-mail spoke for itself. Did it not? And yet here I am pointing it all out...
Molly #100, Owlmirror #49 and Bonnie #494, I barely made it through Bonnie Cox's dissertation. Do you really think I'm going to bother with yours?
Posted by: raiko | December 8, 2008 4:15 AM
I love how she thinks all of those 97% Christians are as nutty as she is.
Posted by: hermit | December 8, 2008 4:28 AM
@560
Judges very often cut and paste from the briefs at his disposal, especially if he agrees with the argument, this is extremely common. Perhaps Farfarman feels and entirely new document must be composed by the judge for the benefit of this case....he is full of it.
Posted by: hermit | December 8, 2008 4:39 AM
Oh and one other thing, Farfarman...Judge jones did not ignore the defendants briefs....he rejected their content..... that's his job, you know, to decide who's right and who's wrong.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 8, 2008 4:43 AM
denigrate the writer for her gender?
Using gender-specific insults is not the same as denigrating someone for their gender, and I have yet to see someone make this sort of erroneous assertion when males are similarly insulted.
Posted by: Ms_Misery | December 8, 2008 5:06 AM
Im an avid reader of Pharyngula and have never posted before. This thread however, has motivated to express my profound gratitude to Bonnie, Kc, Larry and co. for the entertainment. Seriously, you guys should consider stand-up comedy.
Posted by: RickrOll | December 8, 2008 5:21 AM
Happy travels Ms_Misery. Always nice to hear from someone else new.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 8, 2008 6:12 AM
To Ms_Misery @ #570
Ah yes, we loves us some bread and circuses, we does. And pie. And anything squidly.
I'm fairly new here myself, but I think I've seen enough to feel safe in speaking for all those here like me who would welcome you to what is arguably among the most interesting blogs around.
And to the regulars here, I ask that you please point me to the primer for html tags peculiar to this particular blog engine. I've figured out a few of them, but can't seem to coax my primate brain to identify the tag for quoting text from other posts. Thanks in advance.
Posted by: John Morales | December 8, 2008 6:27 AM
Flerndip22, for quoting use <blockquote>quoted text here</blockquote>. I suggest you use the post preview feature (saving your combox input before previewing as it gets processed during preview) to experiment, and cancel out unless you actually wish to post. You can also use a, b, i and other tags.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 8, 2008 6:30 AM
I tried this previously, but since this thread has died down, it is hopefully safe to test the blockquote tag again without bugging anyone.
Ah, the joy of learning you were wrong about something. Excellent. Tag sorted.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 8, 2008 6:32 AM
Thanks John. You beat me to my test post.
Posted by: John Morales | December 8, 2008 6:35 AM
Heh. I should practice what I preach; I didn't preview and missed the runaway b tag.
Posted by: Patrick | December 8, 2008 7:09 AM
This guy doesn't have faith. He is infected with faith. There is a difference. Think of it as a drug or medicine. Some people tolerate it well, while others have adverse reactions. People of this guys ilk are the ones with the adverse reactions. They get rabid with faith. It's kind of like a mental disease that you can catch by being in a prolonged state of gullibility (especially at a young age).
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 8, 2008 7:37 AM
I think you're right. He doesn't have faith. Faith has him. Faith short-circuits one's ability to formulate one's own opinions, exercise free will and inherent moral judgement, instead relying entirely on dogma for all the answers. And when that dam inevitably bursts, it's not a big surprise which swollen finger is pulled from the hole in the dike and re-tasked for the most primitive form of communication.
Posted by: Flerndip22 | December 8, 2008 7:45 AM
@Patrick:
Additionally, try to imagine the impossible burden the faithful must shoulder. Imagine feeling duty-bound, by threat of eternal agony, to defend the indefensible.
On the other hand, he has a mountain of logical fallacies upon which to draw, and is used to seeing them succeed in spades when used on his fellow sheeple. Imagine the surprise and frustration that results from using those tactics on people capable of critical thinking. It must be enough to drive one mad.
When cornered, animals will often act out of panic and last resort. And animals we are. All of us.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 8, 2008 8:01 AM
Oh and we allll thank you so much for being the comment police.
Yes the comments are here for your amusement only.
Once again thank you for filling your role.
Posted by: Bezoar | December 8, 2008 8:07 AM
97% of the population is christian? So, what's the point. That's like saying that because Chevrolet sells more cars than BMW that it is a better product. And pullin out the 'Hitler card" shows a typical degree of religious tolerance.
Posted by: Charles Darwin's Ghost | December 8, 2008 8:08 AM
Rumors of my being alive are greatly exaggerated.
Posted by: trash | December 8, 2008 8:25 AM
That lunatic, Vox Day had this to say...
I am sorry that I went to that link. I think I am going to puke.
Posted by: DuckPhup | December 8, 2008 9:00 AM
Well, waddaya know? I may have found Bonnie Cox's better-half... Barry Cox (lives in Milford with his wife and two high school age sons). Here's his recent letter to the Cincinnati Enquirer...
Leftists show bigotry in zoo-museum flap
Posted by: Greg Laden | December 8, 2008 9:16 AM
Larry. I've never banned you from my site, so please don't make this false (though implied) accusation.
Oh, and it's "Greg Laden" rhymes with "Tom Hayden" ... not "Greg Laden" rhymes with "Osama bin Laden"
Just stay away from my nephew, Ben Laden. He'll kick your ass.
Posted by: Fatmop | December 8, 2008 9:17 AM
Her name is "Bonnie Cox."
I was unaware that rational discussion was necessary when you've got someone with a name like that.
Posted by: Cheshire | December 8, 2008 9:55 AM
I've been trying to get my way through Alan Bloom's Closing the American Mind. His book seems to be about the latest fad in academia, people are more worried about being branded a bigot than being right. Lots of people, especially denialists, cash in on this. We see things like 'respect my opinions' and such.
Anyone else read it?
It seems that a lot of the time when someone is shown to be wrong or a point is shown to be invalid, rather than try to come back with something else to back their line of logic up, they resort to calling the other side a bigot.
Or as I prefer to call it, 'invokin teh biggutreez'.
Posted by: DuckPhup | December 8, 2008 10:02 AM
Yep... confirmed...
Bonnie & Barry Cox
Milford Athletic Boosters Club
Membership Roster
2007 - 2008
The husband is just as warped as the wife: Leftists show bigotry in zoo-museum flap
Posted by: Sherry | December 8, 2008 11:15 AM
But Barry and Bonnie Cox of Milford OH belong to the local United Methodist church!
According to the Methodist doctrine, they are actually more concerned with the "here and now". They do not endorse the "Rapture" or Creationism!!! I believe that right now, the governing body is preparing to endorse evolution.
What will the Cox's do then? Move to Arkansas?
Posted by: Billy Sands | December 8, 2008 11:19 AM
That was weird!
"You are quite free to believe what you want to believe, but unless Hitler was your mentor, you should know that you have NO RIGHT to interfere with other organizations or businesses that want to colaborate just because you disagree with their arguement."
Is this wingnut saying that if Hitler was your mentor then you can do what you want?
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 8, 2008 11:25 AM
Re:Trash #583, quoting VD.
In fact, I thought he was a she for a while, not having paid much attention to him.
For VD, being a women is the worst insult.
Posted by: Taz | December 8, 2008 11:27 AM
I've got to ask, what's with "BVD-clad"? Does Larry consider it an insult to accuse somewhere of wearing underwear?
Posted by: ian | December 8, 2008 11:27 AM
respectfully yours, indeed. There was nothing respectful at all about that letter. It was ignorant, arrogant, and just plain rude.
BTW, according to the CIA World Factbook, the total percentage of christian folk in the US is 78.5%, and that's if you're including Roman Catholics(23.9%), Mormons(1.7%), and other Christians (whatever the hell that means - 1.6%).
Of course saying 78.5% of Americans are Christians doesn't mean 78.5% of Americans are Creationists or even tolerant of Creationists. Most probably believe Creationists have hijacked the meaning of their religion with foolish, vanity driven quibbling.
Posted by: Janine, Insulting Sinner | December 8, 2008 11:39 AM
DuckPhup, thank you for that link. I just want to draw some attention to this statement.
It is an insult to almost everybody. Sadly, I have known plenty of people from the "left" who are rather woo addled and do not have a problem with the concept of creationism.
This statement is also an insult to those people on the "right" and all of the conservatives who do not buy into Ken Ham form of insanity.
But what the hell, one cannot have a culture with making up imaginary enemies and nonexistent allies.
Posted by: Metro | December 8, 2008 12:32 PM
@Mrs Doubt(hell)fire
From your #99
Late to the party, but had to say:
I knew I could stop reading the VD comment threads when I read Clay's number one comment (which is really more a number two):
Sums up the entire creationist attitude in a dozen words.Teh stupid is strong at Vox Dei. As is the projection of sexual inadequacy, I suspect (BUT absolutely do not wish to know for sure).
@Mr. Farry Larfarman:
How strange--you sound just like this other troll that used to hang around scienceblogs.
If you want to see censorship, pop over to Vox Day's blog. Don't expect to be allowed to comment though. Registration is required.
It takes a real effort of will to get banned at scienceblogs, but with VD it's the default posiition. I assume it's because teh dissent is teh scary.
Sic semper deii.
Posted by: SC | December 8, 2008 1:31 PM
I read it with great care when it came out, years ago. It's pretentious, verbose garbage that formed part of the so-called "Culture Wars" of those years. It's not worthy of my time or energy to demolish it here, but you may be interested in Susan Faludi's critique in her Backlash, which was released shortly thereafter. There are many others, but this is the one that comes most immediately to mind.
Posted by: spinetingler | December 8, 2008 1:50 PM
Brain Hertz |
Encouraging people to write a bunch of fucking letters is exactly the sort of thing that Hitler did. I mean, do you not remember the campaign of letter writing he engaged in against Austria? Not to mention the fucking deluge of letters he had the Wehrmacht send to Czechoslovakia and Poland.
Brain FTW.
Posted by: Paul Murray | December 8, 2008 3:41 PM
Posted by: Cheshire | December 8, 2008 4:49 PM
Thanks.
Like I said...I've only thumbed through it and haven't really started reading it as of yet.
I'll check that out when I get the chance.
Posted by: Jason | December 8, 2008 5:28 PM
I just wish that these people would realize that the Catholic church (Vatican) says that evolution is completely compatible with Christianity and they fully admit that the Bible is not scientific literature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution
Nothing wrong with spirituality or even some theistic beliefs, it is this ignorance towards fellow man while preaching acceptance that is so backwards.
I just don't understand how one could say "there is no proof" to one concept by not showing proof of the competing concept.
Posted by: Bonny Cocks | December 8, 2008 6:22 PM
Jason, either the world is 6000 years old or it isn't. Either "god did it" or he didn't. There is no "sorta god" in the Catholic canon. No "kinda miracles". There is so much evidence for the veracity of Darwin's theories that the church could no more deny them than they could deny the Copernican model for the solar system. They're starting to fudge their own beliefs . . . and their vestments too.
Posted by: Colin | December 8, 2008 7:09 PM
Can we just clear up this statistics thing? There's nothing wrong with America being 97% christian and 18% non-christian. It just means the USA is contributing 115%!!
Posted by: Shoter Bonnie Cox | December 8, 2008 8:00 PM
Shorter Bonnie Cox.
There's a 700 foot tall Jessica Simpson standing next to me but you can't see her.
Doesn't mean she isn't there.
Posted by: Chris (in Columbus) | December 8, 2008 8:55 PM
Wow, I cannot get over how dumb this lady is. She calls you a Marxist but then wants you censored, she claims Christians are 97% of this nation, she says she wants students to discuss research with each other but not listen to Professors...I just don't get her logic. What an idiot.
Posted by: Marion Delgado | December 9, 2008 4:37 AM
Creationist research IS kids discussing things in class!
A man's convictions should exceed his knowledge, or what's a Conservapedia for?
Posted by: pieco | December 9, 2008 8:17 AM
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Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 9, 2008 8:20 AM
i love spam
Posted by: Ian | December 9, 2008 8:46 AM
Why is it that so-called Christians consistently fail to turn the other cheek? I guess Bonnie Cox isn't so bonnie after all, and she certainly doesn't exhibit an iota of Christianity. Unless you consider only the worst aspects of it; then she's right on the money.
Posted by: Kasei Valles | December 11, 2008 12:12 AM
The Percentage of the population in the state of Ohio that attended any type of religious gathering in 1990, including those who attended only once or twice a year, was listed as less than 51% according the the source I have cited below.
Keep in mind this figure also includes Jews, Muslims, and other groups that are not generally considered "christian". I find it hard to believe that Ohio is grossly out of step with the rest of the country, therefore I find Bonnie's contention that approximately 97% of the country is "christian" unbelievable. I wish she would cite her sources for her statistics.
Source for my statistics:
Ramos, Mary G. (ed.). 1996-1997 Texas Almanac. Dallas, TX: Dallas Morning News (1995), pg. 325. [Source: Glenmary: "Churches & Church Membership in the U.S., 1990 "]
Posted by: Ken Cavanaugh | December 11, 2008 2:39 PM
It's people like Bonnie that give home schooling a bad name. My wife and I home school our son, but not for religious reasons (I'm an atheist, she's not religious in any real sense).
We home school because the schools here in coastal northern California are mainly crap: too
much time spent on disciplining problem kids and trying to help the slow kids achieve NCLB standards, not enough time spent on brighter children. Home schooling (through a
charter school in our case) gives us the opportunity to find and construct the best
curriculum we can for our child.
Just one small set of statistics (admittedly out of context, with no attempt to find a complete picture of the relevant research): the table at
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp
shows the main reasons cited in a US education department survey (2003) for home schooling.
The first reason is school environment, the third concern with academics. Religious
instruction is the second, obviously still very important for many. Considering
parents for whom academics is a concern, not just the most important one, moves academics to second place.
What would be more interesting would be to see the change over time in these reasons, but I don't know
where to find that. I have heard from others that secular home schooling has been
growing quickly in recent years.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 11, 2008 2:46 PM
PZ, any sign of the deluge of letters from Bonnie's campaign starting to pour in?
Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 11, 2008 2:57 PM
Chimpy, what happened to all of your letters? KOT, OM?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 11, 2008 3:04 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about......
Posted by: White | December 11, 2008 3:39 PM
If im reading this right the CIA's website says there is only 1.6% christians in this country.
"United States Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)"
So that means "BONNIE" is about 95% off and shouldn't be bothering people about this crap. Christians make up a very small percent in this country and its pretty much a meaningless religion. I'm not saying that any religion has any meaning its all make believe............... Made up to make people act civilized, but that just hasn't worked out with all the religious wars in the history of this world. Its pretty stupid to keep this charade going, because in the end its just going to kill all of you dumb bastards, and your just going to drag us into your stupid wars with other stupidass suicidal religions. So if you have something to say about christianity and how great it is just think about the history of the crusades and all of your stupid "HOLY WARS" and do everyone a favor and keep your mouth shut.
Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 11, 2008 3:50 PM
OK, now I see. #608 is a naked Chimp, #610 is a Chimp in a tuxedo. Very stylish, ooh la,la!
Posted by: PZ Myers | December 11, 2008 6:10 PM
Why, no. I've gotten a few of the usual Catholic pious whinge, and a recent surge from Ham acolytes, but otherwise, it's pretty quiet.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 11, 2008 6:12 PM
Do you think... it is possible that Bonnie was...LYING!?!?!
Or maybe she was just skiing way out over her tips.
Internet threats are so lame.
Posted by: janegael | December 15, 2008 3:16 AM
I work with one of these. After explaining to her that I hated Sarah Palin because she actively promotes hunting wolves from helicopters and that the day before her nomination came out one of those chopper murderfests ended with a litter of 5 week old puppies being shot in the head.
I finished my explanation and she belligerently stated: "Well I LIKE her." When I asked her why -- she replied: "Because she's a Christian."
She's blind so I told her the sound she was hearing was me pounding my head against the wall...