…and this is a 
Lack of self-awareness is a tragic disease running rampant in the fundagelical community. Here's an amusing instance: what happens if you tell children about Santa, and then they find out the truth? Why, they go on a terrorist rampage of murder and mayhem, of course.
Right. I'm sure you all remember that day when you discovered Santa Claus was just-pretend, maybe when you were 4 or 5, and you right away ran out and burned down the pre-school and strangled the cat. Funny, isn't it, how everyone reading this figured out that Santa isn't real and managed to survive the trauma without committing any felonies.
Not this poor kid, though. Look how he ends up.
Guess what? I bet Osama bin Ladin doesn't believe in Santa Claus either.
Alas, this Chick comic has a very muddled message. It seems to be that you shouldn't teach kids to believe in fairy tales, because they'll be disappointed when they find out the truth…but somehow, he thinks the fairy tale of Jesus is different.
Comments
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 19, 2008 12:41 PM
But if you kill yourself after finding out that Genesis isn't real, it's not the fault of the woo-purveyors, it's those nasty people who told the truth who are at fault.
I know, I read it on the Discovery Institute's blog.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 19, 2008 12:42 PM
You owe me a new irony detector!
Posted by: Bronze Dog | December 19, 2008 12:42 PM
Haven't read it yet, but I have a feeling I'll have to see about giving it one of my Image Dogtoring treatments. I don't know if I'll be able to do anything with it, though.
Posted by: Richard Harris | December 19, 2008 12:44 PM
Many more people got killed by the Jebus mythology than by the Santa mythology.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 19, 2008 12:45 PM
Santa on Jack Chick:
"WTF?"
Posted by: Orson Zedd | December 19, 2008 12:45 PM
The day I stopped believing in Yahweh was exactly like the day I stopped believing in Amalgam Odin. Simply put, everything became a lot simpler.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 19, 2008 12:48 PM
Then too, there wouldn't be a Saint Nickolaus without Jebus and Xianity.
So, Xianity kills. Thank you for pointing that out, Jack Chick.
(I do actually think that good ol' Saint Nick is one of the best things to come out of Xianity, with Chick representing much of the worst.)
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: «bønez_brigade» | December 19, 2008 12:49 PM
Jack Chick definitely has a friend in the WBC, with their "Santa Claus Will Take You To Hell" campaign/attempted-sign-in-WA-capital-bldg.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3c_1229133179
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 19, 2008 12:49 PM
Well, "Saint Nicholas" is the more usual spelling.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 19, 2008 12:50 PM
You've got love the fact that amongst the "liars, hypocrites, pagans and God haters" is a man pointing at a bone.
Posted by: Ol'Froth | December 19, 2008 12:51 PM
Interesting that he puts "Harry" up there with OBL, because, you know, OBL doesn't ever try to justify murder based on his belief in a god.
Posted by: JustJoeP | December 19, 2008 12:54 PM
"When extremists attack". It's always amusing to see how far these loons can take an argument, and how ludicrous the result is. Harry's a terra-ist because of disillusionment of a secular myth. Osama's a terra-ist because his belief in djinni was challenged when he was a kid at one of daddy's construction sites just outside of Medina? It's all crystal clear now.
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 19, 2008 12:55 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure they hate each other (unsurprising since they both hate most people). Chick is a fiercely jingoistic American patriot and Phelps things God hates America (for all the fag enabling it does).Posted by: Rudi | December 19, 2008 12:58 PM
4 or 5?
More like 9 or 10 in my case. Gullible as I was, though, I never believed in anything as silly as the Bible.
Posted by: gg | December 19, 2008 12:59 PM
I love the random use of italics and boldface. It really captures the spirit of a screed to the editor made out of pasted newsprint letters.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 19, 2008 1:01 PM
Between the stereotypical black-pointed-hat Witch and the bearded dude with pith helmet and bone (Evilutionist, presumably) is a parched-looking prune of a woman holding a sign reading "No Prayer"--Jack's depiction of a representative atheist?
Posted by: Richard | December 19, 2008 1:02 PM
I read the whole Chick tract, and it looks so much like a Poe. How do we know Chick tracts aren't a parody?
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 19, 2008 1:04 PM
My guess (as a Chick connoisseur) is that she represents campaigners to have prayer taken out of public schools. I think he's very angry about that.Posted by: mus | December 19, 2008 1:05 PM
More like 9 or 10 in my case. Gullible as I was, though, I never believed in anything as silly as the Bible.
Same here. I was about that age... never really believed the whole god thing though.
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 19, 2008 1:06 PM
Nobody commits that deeply to satire. Not even notedscholar.Posted by: MikeM | December 19, 2008 1:09 PM
Happy Monkey, everyone!
Yeah, but PZ, how do you know bin Laden didn't grow up thinking there was a Santa? Huh? I got you there, man!
Posted by: Doubting Foo | December 19, 2008 1:10 PM
Santa is pretend? Oh sad monkey!
Posted by: fmitchell | December 19, 2008 1:11 PM
It IS different. Even though it's completely indistinguishable from other fairy tales, the TALE of JESUS is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Any NUMBER of NOTED THEOLOGIANS and MEN OF GOD will use CAPS LOCK on you until you UNDERSTAND.
Posted by: The Countess | December 19, 2008 1:16 PM
What.. you mean...
Santa's not real???? NOOOOOO!!!!!
I'm going to go out now and feed some Alka Seltzer to sea gulls. A new serial killer has been born. :)
Posted by: designsoda | December 19, 2008 1:18 PM
Hah! At first I thought that strip was lampooning the idea that if we didn't believe in God we'd have no basis for morality. "When kids find out Santa isn't real they DON'T go on rampages, why should finding out God isn't real be any different?"
Posted by: Zeno | December 19, 2008 1:20 PM
Actually, Harry Garner grew up to be a physics & math major who looked a lot like Harry Potter.
Posted by: SethBdx | December 19, 2008 1:20 PM
Lets not forget the easter bunny & tooth fairy! How many atrocities would be committed per child before aged 10?
Posted by: C Barr | December 19, 2008 1:21 PM
If only more people had wished Harry a Happy Monkey this wouldn't have happened. Such a sad story.
Posted by: Sastra | December 19, 2008 1:26 PM
It's funny how you find counterpoint fears about Santa at different ends of the spectrum.
There are atheists who think the Santa story is bad for kids, because it teaches and encourages them to believe that myths like God are real.
There are theists who think the Santa story is bad for kids, because it teaches and encourages them to believe that real things like God are myth.
Posted by: Jason A. | December 19, 2008 1:28 PM
I love this.
It's like we don't even have to try anymore, the fundies make themselves look crazy all on their own!!!
(how's the random italics working for me?)
Posted by: JJR | December 19, 2008 1:36 PM
Interestingly, the FBI notice for Osama doesn't mention 9-11 at all...
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
Posted by: «bønez_brigade» | December 19, 2008 1:37 PM
@13 - Matt,
If only they would settle their petty differences and join forces, they would be such a godly power with which to be reckoned. Signs(ofthetimes) + (bugnutty)tracts = ultimate power of conversion. If only they knew; if only they knew...
This tract is good, though, for presenting to Xians who trash their brethren-in-christ in the WBC -- while a somewhat-more-well-respected fundy (in the fundy world) holds a nearly identical belief (Santa yields Hell, in this case).
Posted by: Robert Thille | December 19, 2008 1:39 PM
Wow, my irony meter just exploded. Yeah, we sure don't want to teach fairy tales to kids, it'll rot their brains...teach them Jesus instead!
Posted by: frog | December 19, 2008 1:39 PM
I guess Chick doesn't have any children? Or he's never paid any attention to them, other than in the bedroom (Yeah, I'll go there with this kind of scum)??
I guess the safe bet is that Jack is just that stupid.
Icthyic, care to comment on projection?
Posted by: MikeM | December 19, 2008 1:40 PM
By the way, the panel with the Asian cop, the witch, the Islamic-looking guy, the biker, and a couple others I can't really identify is pretty much the most racist thing I've seen today. Eesh. Do Chick Tracts actually work? Do people read those things and then fall to their knees in prayer?
Sad Monkey if that's the case.
Posted by: clinteas | December 19, 2008 1:40 PM
Who's this bin Ladin fellow?
And I mean,seriously,these guys,i give up,you just cant beat this.....
Posted by: tsg | December 19, 2008 1:45 PM
This is so disturbing it's not even amusing.
I mean, wow. Just, wow.
Jack Chick is precisely why Poe's Law exists.
Posted by: MikeM | December 19, 2008 1:46 PM
Not just rot their brains, but force them into a state where they need an exorcism. That's a very important distinction, ya know.
I mean, seriously, I heard Tubular Bells and saw heads spinning when Poor Harry was strapped to a gurney. Is there a Santa ward in your hospital?
Posted by: Slaughter | December 19, 2008 1:46 PM
Chick has it all wrong. Harry's life changed when Hagrid showed up with to take him to Hogwarts.
Posted by: tsg | December 19, 2008 1:54 PM
There are way too many people who take them seriously for it to matter. Whether or not it is intended, it stops being parody when it is an actually held position.
Posted by: Vic | December 19, 2008 2:01 PM
OMG! I had no idea Jack Chick was serious in all those comics!!! I thought he was lampooning the fundagelicals, not one of them. Poe's law is real!
I feel like Arthur Carlson. "As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly".
Posted by: DrBadger | December 19, 2008 2:01 PM
Isn't the capacity for self-awareness something that separates human intelligence from that of other species?
Posted by: Eamon Knight | December 19, 2008 2:02 PM
Lemme see if I've got this straight:
Case 1) Kid discovers Santa is a myth, goes ballistic -- According to Jack Chick, it's the fault of those who made him believe in Santa in the first place.
Case 2) Kid discovers Jesus is a myth, goes ballistic -- According to the DiscoTute, it's the fault of those who disillusioned him.
Maybe Chick and the DI should consult on getting a unified message.
Posted by: kjg28 | December 19, 2008 2:07 PM
I wrote a short commentary on this topic awhile back on the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Science and Reason facebook discussion group:
http://www.facebook.com/board.php?uid=2226393021#/topic.php?uid=2226393021&topic=4892
Posted by: Patricia, OM | December 19, 2008 2:22 PM
er, Vic - Turkey's can fly. And if you drink enough 'Wild Turkey' you can fly too.
Posted by: Lowell | December 19, 2008 2:31 PM
I know it's been posted here before, but I had to mention Chick's sickest work ever, the Lisa tract: http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5556735.html
The moral of the story, I shit you not, is that it's okay to rape your children as long as you accept Jesus as your personal savior.
It's not available on the Chick website.
Posted by: kryth | December 19, 2008 2:35 PM
This stuff is so stupid that you have to wonder if people really believe this crap.
Posted by: Spook | December 19, 2008 2:44 PM
When I read Dark Dungeons maybe a decade ago, I thought, "Wow, this guy is pretty crazy. I don't think you could possibly top that."
Oh how wrong I was. He just manages to top himself over and over again.
Jack Chick is exactly the reason that Poe's Law is out there. Yow.
Posted by: BruceJ | December 19, 2008 2:54 PM
Actually, it only seems that way. If you listen carefully those people who have fallen to their knees are usually whimpering "The STUPID!! It buuuuurns!"
Posted by: Tor A H | December 19, 2008 2:59 PM
When I was a kid I thought Star Wars really happened, not exactly like the movies but that wars in space once happened, because my dad told me so. It was pretty embarrassing when I learned the truth.
I didn't really believe in god though, that just didn't make much sense. lol
When I was three my dad tried the santa stunt on me and almost scared me to death. Luckilly I got a toy tractor for jul that year and all was well after that. I never believed in santa.
Posted by: Zach | December 19, 2008 3:00 PM
Interesting side note: Jack Chick says astrologers are going to hell.
Finally something we can all agree on!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0045/0045_01.asp
Posted by: Ann | December 19, 2008 3:11 PM
"Funny, isn't it, how everyone reading this figured out that Santa isn't real and managed to survive the trauma without committing any felonies."
PZ, do you have any data to back up that statement? Seems like you're making quite the leap!
And speaking of leaps, Patricia--or rather, drops--I think the Arthur Carlson quote is from "WKRP in Cincinnati," when the station dropped domestic turkeys out of a plane as a promotional stunt. Domestic turkeys can't fly.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | December 19, 2008 3:12 PM
If only it was Jack Chick who didn't exist.
Posted by: horrobin | December 19, 2008 3:12 PM
Lowell, that's a disingenuous aspersion on Chick's position: you also have to be really sorry you raped your kid.Seriously, though, my moment of unbelieving disgust in the 'Lisa' tract came when Dad implied that it was Mom's fault for not putting out anymore.
Posted by: ThinkingApe | December 19, 2008 3:18 PM
I'm still pissed I never developed magic powers after playing D&D.
Posted by: Qwerty | December 19, 2008 3:21 PM
Next, you'll be telling me that all the Elvii I saw in Vegas were no more real than the Santa at my local mall!!
Ahhhhhh... Time to go on a rampage!
Posted by: tsg | December 19, 2008 3:25 PM
And she agreed!
Posted by: tsg | December 19, 2008 3:33 PM
I've figured it out. Jack Chick is Satan.
Posted by: Ann | December 19, 2008 3:36 PM
At first glance, I thought it was satire. But they're really serious.. are people this stupid?
Posted by: Qwerty | December 19, 2008 3:41 PM
If you click to see the cover of this track, it appears that the tooth fairy is a big old bear of a man. Hmmmm... I wonder if he goes to the same gay bars that I visit?
Posted by: XymbionicX | December 19, 2008 3:50 PM
OMFG ! what planet is this loony living on - the Santa 1 is bad enough but Lisa ? this guy is in serious need of psychiatric help - fucking your kids is OK as long as u r sorry and skydaddy forgives u and that makes it all OK again does it ?? and its all the wifes fault ??? - excuse me while i puke.
Posted by: Janine, Vile Bitch | December 19, 2008 3:58 PM
One of the worst Chicks was one of the first ones. A young boys is thrown out of a hovel by his brutal father. The boy is shivering in a box in the middle of a snowstorm. He gets a Chick comic. The boy dies and is taken up to heaven in the arms of jesus. The moral, the kid was brutalized and froze to death. But it is not sad because he found jesus.
Why bother to try to improve people's lives?
Posted by: Caveat | December 19, 2008 3:59 PM
Hey, I still believe in Santa Claus in theory. Why wouldn't I? Unlike most mythical characters, Santa actually answers!
btw I pretended to believe in Santa Claus as long as possible. I didn't want to disappoint my parents, since they seemed to get such a kick out of it. I ashamed to admit there was a bit of greed involved as well.
Posted by: strangest brew | December 19, 2008 4:17 PM
methinks this jolly dude is just one sick and way past deluded ignorant bitter and totally wacko jeebus interferer!
How come he has not been sectioned yet?
Posted by: Medusa | December 19, 2008 4:23 PM
I don't believe in Jack Chick. Surely no one can be _this_ stupid. Or can he? Scary!
Posted by: Warren | December 19, 2008 4:28 PM
burned down the pre-school and strangled the cat
Or choked the chicken, or spanked the monkey...
What I find amusing is how many christards still seem to believe in Santa Claus, in the form of their god. They ask him for everything. Like some kind of vending machine in the sky.
Posted by: Lowell | December 19, 2008 4:29 PM
I don't know. Do you have to be really sorry in Chickland?
To me, Lisa's father didn't seem particularly sorry for what he'd done. He was sorry he got caught, of course, but he never actually apologized to Lisa.
In any case, anyone who could write that garbage has some serious problems.
Posted by: Hank Fox | December 19, 2008 4:33 PM
One of my Wise Old Sayings I Just Made Up (some time back, actually):
Never Lie to a Child or a Dog For Any Reason.
I'd be curious to know how many of my fellow unbelievers DO tell their kids that Santa is real.
I think a lot of us feel that it's a harmless childhood fantasy, but I'm not sure it is. If nothing else, learning that your parents deliberately lied to you has to have SOME effect.
Aside from that, though, encouraging kids to believe in something for which there is no evidence, and for which they're forced to blindly accept what they're told, that doesn't seem like good practice for life either.
Posted by: Fatboy | December 19, 2008 4:33 PM
I believed in Santa into the double digits. I guess it's the same personality trait that made me take so long to become an atheist.
I remember a few years ago when my daughter figured out the truth about Santa. She was furious, "I can't believe you've lied to me for my entire 6 years of life!" She's still not quite over it and brings it up from time to time. She gets pretty annoyed at all the Santa movies and classmates who still believe in Santa.
Posted by: tsg | December 19, 2008 4:36 PM
I do. They like it.
Ignoring the unsupported assertion, it teaches them that people aren't always honest. A first step in critical thinking.
Discovering there is no Santa is applied critical thinking skills.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 19, 2008 4:38 PM
We never lied to my daughter, but sorta weaseled around with phrases like "according to the old stories..." and "some people say..."
She figured it out pretty quickly.
Posted by: Christina | December 19, 2008 4:44 PM
I don't get why christians are so worried about whether or not their kid believes in santa claus. My parents are strict baptists and told me santa doesn't exist so my attention and praise went to God. Now I know enough to thank them and give proper credit for my christmas presents.
Posted by: Christina | December 19, 2008 4:47 PM
woops, I misread the context. But I don't think kids should be led to believe that santa claus is real anyways.
And as a bratty 7 year old I told plenty of kids that santa wasn't real and none of them ever went ballistic... that I know of.
Posted by: Jadehawk | December 19, 2008 4:50 PM
phhht, Lowell, you misunderstand! it isn't Lisa he must apologize to but to God, so that he may be forgiven. It's not important for him to apologize to his daughter, since his crime was one against God!!!
*barf*
Posted by: H.H. | December 19, 2008 4:52 PM
Hank Fox said:
Right. Hopefully that "effect" will be not to trust in the veracity of absurd stories blindly, even when told to you by people you trust. Perhaps I'm different in that Santa was never "revealed" to me as a hoax, I actually thought about it as I got older and concluded that the story was extremely unlikely. When I confronted my parents with my doubts, they confirmed my suspicions. I look back on finding out that the Santa narrative was fictional as probably the first skeptical epiphany of my life, and I have no doubts that it provided a first great lesson in the importance and value of critical thinking.
It's good practice if they find their blind acceptance to have been a mistake. You know, you can learn the stove is hot by heeding other people's warning, or you can just touch the damn thing and learn for yourself. Which do you think is more effective in the long run?Posted by: Jadehawk | December 19, 2008 4:59 PM
as for the whole santa thing... well, for as long as I rememember, every year on easter and christmas it was me and my cousin trying to find evidence for parents hiding the gifts/candy. to my parents credit, we never caught them, so until they got bored of the game, we never had conclusive evidence on that. the gifts always magically appeared sometime under the christmas tree sometime on christmas eve, no matter how diligently we watched.
it was a game, and harmless in the sense that we were pretty skeptical of it from the very beginning. it was a silly game of wits. and i'm afraid that my parents turned out cleverer. we really never caught them :-p
Posted by: Malimar | December 19, 2008 5:13 PM
When I was a wee lad, I never believed for a second in Santa Claus. Either my parents (Unitarian Universalists, which is among the less offensive religions, being basically organized agnosticism) never bothered to fill my head with lies, or I was smart enough to see through it the first time they mentioned it. I can't remember which.
Basically the same thing goes for the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, souls, deities, and most other nonexistent things.
Posted by: Fatboy | December 19, 2008 5:29 PM
I just read the Lisa tract. Holy crap. I'd always thought of Chick as an amusing kook before, doing little more than preaching to an idiot choir. Now I can't even find the right words to express my disgust.
Posted by: BMcP | December 19, 2008 5:33 PM
We are a bit different, all the children in out family are taught that parents, relatives an friends get the gifts and there is no Santa Claus (or Easter Bunny), they are just fairy tales. I figure, why lie to them at all? Just tell them straight out the honest truth.
Posted by: bastion | December 19, 2008 5:34 PM
We never explicitly told our kids, "Santa is real." But, I'll admit we certainly gave them reasons to believe that he was. And we never told them that he wasn't real.
I remember the day my older son came to me questioning the existence of Santa when he was 5 or 6 years old:
OS: Is Santa real?
Me: What do you think?
OS: I think he isn't. Is he?
Me: Do you really want to know?
OS: Yes, I really want to know.
Me: No, Santa isn't real.
OS: I thought so.
The look on his face and the sound of his voice wasn't rage, sadness, hysteria, or disappointment, but rather pride that he had looked at and evaluated the evidence, and had come to the correct conclusion. Not a bad lesson for any kid to learn, and an empowering one.
But there's more:
About 10 minutes later, he returned:
OS: And the Easter Bunny isn't real either, is he?
Me: You're right. The Easter Bunny isn't real.
OS seemed happy, not sad or otherwise upset, with the news. He'd figured out another puzzle that hadn't make logical sense.
Then, as he turned to walk away:
OS: And I bet the Tooth Fairy isn't real either!
He didn't seem damaged either by our letting him believe in Santa, or discovering that Santa wasn't real. But when he did find out that Santa was only make-believe, my son just seemed happily satisfied to have his own conclusion that Santa wasn't real confirmed.
Both my kids are atheists, and I didn't tell either of them that "god isn't real" either. They figured that out by themselves too. I like to think I've got smart kids.
Posted by: Denis Loubet | December 19, 2008 5:37 PM
Aside from that, though, encouraging kids to believe in something for which there is no evidence, and for which they're forced to blindly accept what they're told, that doesn't seem like good practice for life either.That's not exactly right, Hank. They're encouraging them to believe in something for which there is FORGED evidence, i.e. presents, devoured offerings, etc. The children are actually rationally justified in believing in Santa, given the concrete nature of the evidence available to them, it's just that the evidence is deliberately manufactured by their parents.
I guess teaching children to believe something based on forged evidence is still better than teaching them to believe something based on NO evidence. It demonstrates that they're gonna have to perform their own experiments to catch forgers in the act, i.e. find the presents in the closet.
Science in action!
Posted by: littlejohn | December 19, 2008 5:38 PM
Holy crap! I feel so stupid. Why didn't somebody tell me about this guy before?
Oops. Sorry. That was my head exploding.
Posted by: Denis Loubet | December 19, 2008 5:40 PM
Darn, my attempt at a blockquote for the first paragraph in my previous post was an epic fail.
Posted by: varlo | December 19, 2008 5:43 PM
Chick's website claims to be "equiping Christians for evangelism." The process evidently goes like this: (1) Remove original brain. (2) Insert sheep's brain. (I hope that sheep are sufficiently non-litigious to persuade them not to sue me for defamation.)
Posted by: TheOtherOne | December 19, 2008 5:45 PM
Oh, and don't forget that the (theoretical, alleged, totally bullshit) snowball started because dad lost his job and *mom had to go to work.* Because, you know, having your wife bring home a paycheck is the first step on the path to molesting your daughter. A guy with a job, a paycheck, and a properly subservient wife who believes it's immoral to say no to her husband (like a co-worker of mine) would never be tempted to molest his kid....
Posted by: strangest brew | December 19, 2008 5:54 PM
I suppose it has already been sussed but these comic strips is just Chick living out his own sick xian fantasies.
It is pure juvenile bigotry...about everything that upsets chick...it is almost axian fundamentalist porno I could well imagine Chick masturbating furiously over this effluent fit to rapture...
Posted by: GumbyTheCat | December 19, 2008 5:55 PM
How funny. Or sad. In any case, Jack Chick's a whackaloon. If there's any justice in this world, Santa and the Tooth Fairy will be the goons who toss Jack into the lake of fire.
What this guy does with his cartoons is child abuse, pure and simple.
Posted by: Krubozumo Nyankoye | December 19, 2008 6:13 PM
Today in the WSJ -W11
Tony Woodlief
OK, Virginia, There's No Santa Claus. But There is a God.
Sorry PZ he picks on Dawkins instead of you and to put it charitably mischaracterizes his "child abuse" argument. (3rd paragraph)
I can't link to the online version for some reason but
perhaps someone can.
In any event, there is a link to this guy's blog as well:
www.tonywoodlief.com
I just can't bring myself to try to comment on this and it's too early to start drinking.
Posted by: JM | December 19, 2008 6:23 PM
#80 - bastion
I think that you've got some young scientists there. Perhaps there is hope for the future, after all! Thanks for the funny and uplifting story.
Posted by: antaresrichard | December 19, 2008 6:24 PM
Yes, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus, and now we're utterly defenseless against the Martians!
Posted by: Levi in NY | December 19, 2008 6:35 PM
Okay, one kid dies at a school. Tragic. But how is that a "terrorist" act? I don't think a single homicide by a single angry kid counts as terrorism. Also, has anything like this ever happened anywhere?
I, for one, had enough emotional stability as a child not to go murderously berserk when I figured out that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, God, and souls weren't real. And while many of my former classmates made some bad decisions with their lives, to my knowledge none have turned to terrorism.
Posted by: maus | December 19, 2008 6:39 PM
"I do actually think that good ol' Saint Nick is one of the best things to come out of Xianity"
If you've got netflix, stream "What Would Jesus Buy".
It's very appropriate for this season, and not at all what I expected it to be.
Posted by: Sastra | December 19, 2008 6:50 PM
I'm assuming that Jack Chick left out the part where the kid's told him, over and over, from birth, that the only reason we don't kill people is because there really is a Santa: without Santa Claus, there is no reason to be good. Why would he leave that out? It's the worst part.
Posted by: nedlum | December 19, 2008 7:00 PM
I like this one. Mostly because I think it's a tract about Samuel Byck.
Posted by: Levi | December 19, 2008 7:28 PM
I actually think there are lots of parallels between God and Santa. Basically, kids are told that they need to be good, not because being good is a worthy goal in and of itself, but because being good will please a magical father figure who will give you lots of goodies if you're nice. But if you're not nice, you get coal (in the case of God, lots of burning coal).
This is a stupid thing to tell children, because it misses the whole point of morality, which is to be nice out of a sense of genuine care for others, not your own petty self-interest.
Posted by: arachnophilia | December 19, 2008 7:40 PM
i thought for sure that was going in a different direction: that when the kids find out that santa's a lie, they won't trust you about god.
but... jesus. chick never goes small, does he?
Posted by: John C. Randolph | December 19, 2008 7:47 PM
When Jack Chick's kids find out that Santa isn't real, are they going to kill him?
-jcr
Posted by: John Morales | December 19, 2008 7:51 PM
JCR @97, of course not. They'll kill whoever tells them! ;)
Posted by: Neil B ☺ | December 19, 2008 7:56 PM
Even better than the Chick tracts, cool as they are: the full-size full color comic books like "Alberto" (about horrors of the Catholic Church, perhaps ironically appealing to some here.)
Posted by: DaveG | December 19, 2008 7:58 PM
What's most twisted is that the Doc in the Lisa tract says that Jesus doesn't let Satan burden you with more than you can bear - meaning that letting Satan get to you is an effective way to bring you to Jesus.
"Flounder, you booted on Dean Wormer."
Posted by: Annie M | December 19, 2008 8:01 PM
Oooooooooooh! Apparently teh kids burst into flames, before thye go on a murderous rampage. "Flame on!" (with apologies to Johnny Storm)
When I read the "Lisa" one I felt sick to my stomach. I have always thought of Chick as a relatively harmless looney, who only served to set about making thinking Christians feel angry with looney fundamentalists.
But he is a fucking sicko. I don't usually swear in posts but this one makes me unbearably angry.
Every conceivable fucking cliche about child abuse trotted out in a straight line....
Prick.
No.
Even pricks have some bloody use.
Posted by: Crazyharp81602 | December 19, 2008 8:26 PM
That reminds me-- Years ago when my mom told me that what I believed about dinosaurs living millions of years ago was all a lie, I became hurt, enraged, and defensive. Even though I had constant fantasies over the years about killing mom, Ken Ham, and anyone else who tells me that the notion of dinosaurs living millions of years ago was all a lie and that evolution was a fairy tale, a joke, a teaching that says all life changed by accident, deny God, etc, I never actually done it. What it really lead me to is years and years of resentment, bitterness, screaming rage, angry, vengeance, and all sorts of negative feelings that carried me over the years until I discovered blogging and writing essays for websites to be the ultimate therapeutic tool. I begin researching on how creationists were lying about dinosaurs and evolution, searching for sites that expose their lies. Then I wrote essays on the subject and put them all on my blogs. What I did (and still do) really helped me to calm down to the point where I can have my dinosaur enthusiastic life back and above all make a big, huge difference in the science world in a positive way.
Posted by: Twin-Skies | December 19, 2008 8:37 PM
Look on the bright side...
It looks like Chick's illustrations are improving :)
Posted by: Cat | December 19, 2008 8:56 PM
I'm another member of the believed-in-Santa until age 10 club. It was a little humiliating being made fun of by the entire 5th grade (it was about that time when I figured it out). I think my "agnostic phase" probably started some time around then, but of course I didn't admit it, and was still trying to believe, for about 6 years.
I think their real fear is that once a kid figures out Santa isn't real he's going to feel the same way about god (I'm sure that's already been brought up). I think I'm a case where that actually happened.
Posted by: Shaden Freud | December 19, 2008 9:40 PM
I much prefer a nice Cthulhu tract.
Posted by: Ichthyic | December 19, 2008 9:55 PM
I much prefer a nice Cthulhu tract.
I wish you and yours an early place in line.
He who is first in line is most definitely a happy monkey.
Posted by: Carlos | December 19, 2008 10:49 PM
Actually, and I think I'm probably alone on this, the part that really rang false for me on the Santa tract was when the chaplain when to visit him in jail. The cellmate asks how the chaplain snuck in, and that the warden hated the chaplain. I'm not in the field now, but I've worked in both adult and juvenile detention and one thing I can tell you is that there is no shortage of religious groups working in detention facilities and the administration is usually perfectly happy to accept the free activities. The main reason I can think of that your average detention administrator wouldn't like a chaplain would be either a) the chaplain is just personally a dick, or b) the chaplain is a moron who's a security risk.
Posted by: natural cynic | December 19, 2008 11:53 PM
The doctor in the Lisa tract should be in serious trouble since MDs are mandated reporters for child abuse. Daddy wouldn't get anywhere close enough to Lisa to apologize and someone would be on the phone to child services and the cops.
And what kind of airhead mother wouldn't fly into a rage if her hubby admitted that he molested her daughter. No time would be left for any proselytizing.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | December 19, 2008 11:59 PM
Nothing ever rings true in Chick tracts. Ever. It's a window into a strange parallel universe in which human behavior is radically different than in ours.
Posted by: JimboB | December 20, 2008 12:05 AM
This is priceless. Their website shows christians some common logical fallacies committed by muslims. Oh sweet, sweet irony.
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/fallacies.asp
Bwa-ha-ha-ha!
Posted by: Kel | December 20, 2008 1:34 AM
I think Jack Chick is onto something here, just replace Santa Claus with God and it works just the same.
Posted by: Hermann | December 20, 2008 1:37 AM
How sad that Mr. Myers is no artist ...
If he could draw he´d be the Jack Chick of Atheism!
Posted by: RickrOll | December 20, 2008 2:37 AM
You know, i thought that Harry was actually Harry Potter minus the glasses. That would explain the obvious plot arc. Then the story would have been very different indeed. It would have been an Accidental fire. Much different that psychotic arson.
Hmmm, why would a school be on Main Street? Am i merely ignorant of city planning? Or is it some small hint that Learning/Atheism is "dangerously" centralized?
Either way, i think it's absurd. I mean what, is this kid a Muslim? Is that the reason why when his faith is disturbed , he goes on a rampage? This is a serious indictment against radical faith, not anything else. And it's a pretty insulting parallel. To say nothing of the
witch hunt that is the modern evangelical attack on atheism- which is role-reversal, since they insist that "Evolution is a religion".
Shorter: way to shoot yourself in the foot! Congratulations.
Posted by: Ichthyic | December 20, 2008 2:42 AM
If he could draw he´d be the Jack Chick of Atheism!
false equivalency.
you should look up what that means sometime.
Posted by: Kel | December 20, 2008 2:45 AM
I guess it could be like the militant atheists. A militant religious person is one willing to physically harm others for their beliefs, a militant atheist is one who publishes a book.
Posted by: Ichthyic | December 20, 2008 2:53 AM
a militant atheist is
one who publishes a book.all atheists are militants in the eyes of a fundigelical.
...as soon as an atheist claims such publicly, instead of keeping quiet about it, if they protest at all when their rights are taken from them, or their neighbors try to get them thrown out of the neighborhood, if they even try to criticize religious nutbars like Haggard or Hovind.
we're all militant atheists, haven't you heard?
It's how they justify their own militancy towards atheism. It's how they justify releasing all that bottled up angst from such high levels of cognitive dissonance.
...and we've seen it before. Atheists are just the latest targets.
Posted by: Kel | December 20, 2008 3:12 AM
That branding of atheists are militant / extremists / fundamentalists led me to using the term agnostic when dealing with religious. Once I realised it was them who was full of shit and not me, I've taken the Dawkins approach and been proud to call myself an atheist.
Posted by: RickrOll | December 20, 2008 3:39 AM
"we're all militant atheists, haven't you heard?"
Yep, it's just a matter of rank. PZ must be a 3 or 4 star general. Dawkins, of course, is the Supreme Comrade Commander of the European forces lol. I'm just a grunt Ha hah.
Posted by: RickrOll | December 20, 2008 3:41 AM
DOH!
/facepalm
That's Forces with an F.
Posted by: Andreas Johansson | December 20, 2008 5:17 AM
Do you imagine that any chaplain that meets Jack Chick's approval would not be a dickish moron?Posted by: Moxie | December 20, 2008 8:15 AM
It never fails that I end up reading comics like this thinking that they're satirical. I usually end up reading the whole thing before I realize that there is no punch line.
Posted by: Thomas | December 20, 2008 8:33 AM
Check this out for a Chick tract more topical to this blog:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp
Oh my.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | December 20, 2008 8:57 AM
Jack Chick is almost a parody of himself.
Posted by: William Brinkman | December 20, 2008 9:57 AM
I thought Jack Chick was a pseudonym for various christian writers and artists.
Anyway, moral of this cartoon is really don't tell children the truth about Jesus, or they will turn into killers!
Posted by: Levi in NY | December 20, 2008 10:45 AM
I have a feeling the reason the kid is so angry in the first panel is not because the other kids are making fun of his belief in Santa Claus, but rather that they seem to have set his head and shoulders on fire.
Posted by: Caveat | December 20, 2008 12:49 PM
Actually, there is evidence for Santa Claus if it's done properly.
I used to tell my daughter that Santa Claus was a spirit, a mood, that infected parents around Christmastime. So he was real but not real at the same time.
Worked pretty well, especially when at age two or so she stumbled out of her room and saw her incredibly lifelike toy Gorilla sitting on her little chair. She thought is was Santa Claus (I'd told her he would be small, an elf) and was scared s**tless. Had to do some damage control there so came up with my 'theory', which really isn't a lie at all.
Lifelong atheist who believes in Santa Claus - because he delivers. :>)
Posted by: crow | December 20, 2008 3:15 PM
When my son was about five or six he seriously asked me whether Santa was "real" I told him that he was now old enough to be on the other side of the fantasy and join the legion of conspirators BEING Santa. We bought toys and donated them to charity, and gave a few younger relatives presents with gift tags "from Santa". He seemed to enjoy protecting the fantasy for little kids who didn't know yet. Later he really enjoyed himself being "in on the secret" when his sister was little, and would say things like "I think I heard sleighbells, you'd better go to bed so Santa can come".
Posted by: BC | December 20, 2008 6:19 PM
Wow. I read more into it than that.
* There are spirits such as tooth fairies (No reference to such thing in the Bible)
* There are Dieties who bring presents yearly at the same time as the Son Of God(tm)'s birthday. Not referenced in the bible, idolatrous, placing another god before God.
* References to magic/witchcraft.
* Smackings of animalism with a rabbit diety at the time of rebirth. Not referenced in Bible, idolatrous, placing another god before God.
* There is consumerism in there as well. Money is emphasised by the writer as a benefit of believing in the tooth fairy. The child expresses love for receiving material goods from Santa.
* A horrible association that accepting Jesus = sins are absolved, you may go free now. What terrible morals! We don't know what Jamal's crime was, but he is with the murderous Harry, so it may very well be serious.
I see the point of the story in regards to not believing, but I think it shows a great deal of fear on the part of the writer. As I'm sure many of us have mentioned so far, we've all coped pretty well with the admission around Santa & the Tooth Fairy. Most have done pretty well without Jesus. The writer must be very scared of letting go of their confining views. They fear a total meltdown.
Anyway, it isn't really christian of particularly good.
Posted by: TheEngima32 | December 21, 2008 1:26 AM
These strips are hilarious... until it's a five year old girl who fully believes them, with all the earnestness painted on her face, handing them to you.
[soapbox/] It cannot be overlooked - there are people who believe this garbage, and they push it onto their children. They rob their children of any chance to be children, and they cram this nonsense down their throats. That, I feel, is the worst crime of all. Those of us outside looking in (including myself) can laugh our assess of at these things and wonder "how stupid can these people be" - but the truth is VERY stupid, and it's taught to them at a VERY young age. This is exactly why we need Public Education - to prevent stuff like this, and the other "Chick Tracts," from taking to firm a hold in young minds. Reason must be allowed to prevail. [/soapbox]
Having said that, did you know that Chick is THE ORIGINAL Christian Straw-man? His Dungeons and Dragons strips made him a virtual LEGEND in the circles I travel in (because even gamers need a laugh ever now and then). :)
Posted by: noodles | December 21, 2008 1:50 PM
Isn't the whole point of Santa so that adults can amuse themselves? Children are so gullible and trusting... let's make up a silly story and see how long we can fool the kids. It's great fun and we get to chuckle, smirk, and laugh at the naivety of young children. It's kinda like convincing the retarded kid in school to do something goofy and then everybody laughs.
Posted by: Bruce | December 21, 2008 7:14 PM
Reminds me of when I was little (about 10?) when I figured out that there was no Santa Claus (i.e. no chimney at our house; multiple "Santa's" at different shopping malls who had no memory of previous requests; impossible speeds required to deliver presents to every kid in the world in one night etc.).
Boy did I did I get the beating of my life when my parents caught me explaining how Santa Claus couldn't possibly be real to my little brother and sister :-)
Posted by: Andrew | December 23, 2008 11:41 AM
Santa isn't real? Does that mean the 2000 years of us being force fed that some paranormal pedophile impregnated a teen girl who gave birth in a manger which demands we all tithe to the world's oldest pyramid scheme every Sunday can also be confirmed as not based in reality?
Hallelujah!
Posted by: Shadowgm | December 23, 2008 12:21 PM
Christians who believe we should all be praising Jesus in school and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance with 'under God' because it makes us good people need to look at how quickly good people like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney sold honesty, integrity, and our constitutional liberties down the river.
Posted by: AMERICAPHILE MINISTRIES | December 23, 2008 2:53 PM
BARACK OBAMA AND AMERICA MUST WAKE UP TO THE GURU MAGGOT THREAT!!!!
Posted by: DexX | December 23, 2008 6:36 PM
Is it just me, or does Osama bin Laden look kind of cute and cuddly in his "Most Wanted" picture?
Trust Jack Chick to make bin Laden look loveable.
Posted by: Caroline | February 25, 2009 2:42 PM
beware ye people..thou doesn kno what ye up to
Posted by: Sastra
|
February 25, 2009 2:51 PM
Caroline #136 wrote:
Yes we do: we're all the way up to February 25th of 2009, and you posted a comment in a thread that has been over and dead for months. Do you seek to bring it back to life? Beware.