…and this is a 
Ken Ham: still whining, but an online poll supports him
Category: Creationism • Pointless polls
Posted on: December 3, 2008 2:58 PM, by PZ Myers
Yeah, poor Ken — he's still distressed that his attempt to prop up his credibility with the Cincinnati Zoo's was foiled. He's also complaining about an "atheist (a professor from the University of Minnesota-Morris)" who engineered his defeat. I wonder who that might be?
Even more foolishly, though, he cites an online poll to back up his claims.
The news website NKY.com (http://nky.cincinnati.com/) ran an online poll on the controversy. They gave the following options:
YES--The museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo's scientific mission.
NO--The promotion does not mean that the zoo endorses the museum or that the museum endorses the zoo.
As of last night, 86% voted "NO--The promotion does not mean that the zoo endorses the museum or that the museum endorses the zoo." I know this is not a statistically valid poll, but I think it does show, as we have seen many times before, that most people are not intolerant. Sadly, it is an intolerant minority that can intimidate people to give in on matters they should take a stand on.
Crazy innumerate wacko. He notes that it is not "statistically valid", and then in the same sentence claims it "does show". No, it doesn't, Ken. All it shows is that creationist fans beat science fans to this particular poll.
But we can fix that, can't we, boys and girls?
The poll currently stands at 17% yes, 83% no, with a bit over 400 votes total. I suspect we can scramble that all around within an hour.
Comments
Posted by: Bonobo | December 3, 2008 3:06 PM
Voted!
Posted by: Kubenzi | December 3, 2008 3:07 PM
I was about to get mad at us,until i saw "1 comment" for this.Let the crashing begin!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 3, 2008 3:07 PM
I think Ken Ham spends more time whining and crying than he does preaching.
Maybe this is having a dual positive effect.
Posted by: Ken | December 3, 2008 3:08 PM
Voted! shows 24% now.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | December 3, 2008 3:08 PM
Your wish is my command, oh Tentacled Overlord!
The tide turneth as we speak.
Posted by: Jon | December 3, 2008 3:09 PM
woo hooo 28%
Posted by: Galbinus_Caeli | December 3, 2008 3:09 PM
Whining and Crying doesn't count as preaching?
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | December 3, 2008 3:09 PM
Quite amazing how fast that is changing. Literally swung 10% in the time it's taken me to write this. Ooops 15%.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | December 3, 2008 3:09 PM
Voted. And will hit it with each browser when I get home.
Posted by: GumbyTheCat | December 3, 2008 3:10 PM
No time to comment - must crash poll -
Posted by: broxster | December 3, 2008 3:10 PM
It's moving!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM | December 3, 2008 3:11 PM
Well it jumped to 35% yes in less than 10 mins.
Posted by: Cujo359 | December 3, 2008 3:11 PM
There are about 60 new votes in that poll, so I'm guessing that the votes to comments ratio is about 20. This one is well on its way to being freeped.
Posted by: jeremy | December 3, 2008 3:11 PM
I think we've crashed the site already... (can't load up the page)
Posted by: quasarpulse | December 3, 2008 3:13 PM
Is this one cookie-based or IP-based?
Posted by: Ley | December 3, 2008 3:14 PM
Wow. 15 minutes later and its almost tied!
Posted by: Benny the Icepick | December 3, 2008 3:14 PM
28 minutes out, and we're up to 48%. This should be easy.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 3, 2008 3:14 PM
The "yes" and the "no" aren't even true opposites, since "yes" could conceivably be true along with the "no" being true.
I do not think that the promotion was at all intended to actually endorse the museum, but of course it implicitly does.
And of course, even if the poll were properly worded and statistically meaningful and the still "no's" predominated, it would nevertheless probably mean nothing other than that you can fool most of the people some (or possibly most) of the time.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Galbinus_Caeli | December 3, 2008 3:14 PM
Over 50% Go Fighting Cephlapods!
Posted by: David | December 3, 2008 3:15 PM
When I popped over to pharyngula, there were zero comments. I then watched the poll gain a little over 35 Yes votes in 60 seconds. PZ, you the man.
Posted by: JackC | December 3, 2008 3:15 PM
Voted. Nearly 50/50 now. I trust piggie will be as direct with his quoting and commentary when the numbers are reversed?
Well - it was an interesting thought...
JC
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | December 3, 2008 3:15 PM
... and .... 51%. That took about 8 mins from 3:06 - 3:14. Nice work.
Posted by: Jason, Cincinnati | December 3, 2008 3:15 PM
And 15 minutes later, Yes takes the lead.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 3, 2008 3:18 PM
The numbers sure have improved, never mind what a bad poll it really is. Obviously I voted "yes," no matter that "no" is arguable, simply because of how lying boobs like Ham like to spin meaningless numbers.
I suppose I should state the obvious for any missing it--Ham's use of statistics is as intelligently done as all of his "science" is.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Shamar | December 3, 2008 3:18 PM
Woo Hoo, 54% yes! Last time I checked at least!
Posted by: mus | December 3, 2008 3:18 PM
Sweeet, cookie-based poll!
Posted by: chiral | December 3, 2008 3:18 PM
What a whiny bitch. He'll probably cry about crashing the poll too.
I still don't see how insisting on scientific rigor at scientific institutions is intolerant, but maybe I'm just too elitist.
Posted by: Teleprompter | December 3, 2008 3:19 PM
58% yes, 41% no...and I have now voted.
Posted by: AJ Milne | December 3, 2008 3:20 PM
Well, I think it's totally awesome Ken Ham figures online polls are to be taken so seriously.
In that spirit, please answer my poll: should Ken Ham take a flying leap off a really high cliff?
_ Yes.
_ Not if there's a higher building available.
Vote early and often. And thankee kindly. (Tips hat.)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 3, 2008 3:21 PM
"Yes" currently leads "No" by 634 to 358.
Posted by: VOTE YES | December 3, 2008 3:22 PM
i think a ton of folks probably read it as "yes, this is a ridiculously discrimnatory event" and thusly voted yes. it's ok, problem now fixed. merry squidmas!
Posted by: Baudi | December 3, 2008 3:22 PM
Well that changed quickly haha 66% Yes 33% No.
Posted by: Kobra | December 3, 2008 3:23 PM
Poll CRASHED!
:D
Posted by: Patricia | December 3, 2008 3:23 PM
Oh goodie, goodie! More excuses for foul language and denigrating gawd.
May the farce be with you, christian freaks.
Posted by: co | December 3, 2008 3:23 PM
Mmm. Cookies.
They made the big mistake of showing percentages to 1/100th of a percent. Never mid how valid that is for small (in this case, less than 10^4) sample sizes; it shows that one's vote has an impact, no matter how small. It's much more fun to crash than a poll where there is no discernible impact.
Posted by: Platypus | December 3, 2008 3:24 PM
OT: Here's a webcomic that uses the Wizard of Oz to make fun of creationists.
http://www.legorobotcomics.com/?id=36
(Note: the rest of the webcomic is a bit like Jhonen Vasquez' Happy Noodle Boy, in that it is trying very hard to be badly drawn and deliberately moronic to make fun of the medium of webcomics. This strip is a stark deviation from that shtick. The rest of the archives aren't really worth perusing unless you find badly drawn dick jokes amusing.)
Posted by: Alex | December 3, 2008 3:24 PM
Voted. Well over 60% now.
Posted by: Boomer | December 3, 2008 3:24 PM
As of this afternoon, 61% voted "YES-The museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo's scientific mission." I know this is not a statistically valid poll, but I think it does show, as we have seen many times before, that most people understand that science education is an important institution that should not be undermined by stone age superstition. Sadly, it is an ignorant minority that can intimidate people to give in on matters they have no expertise on or business meddling in.
Posted by: Kobra | December 3, 2008 3:25 PM
As soon as I read the title, a large Cheshire smirk appeared on my face.
Posted by: co | December 3, 2008 3:26 PM
What's even worse (better?) is that the poll results open in a new window (or tab, here), *and this doesn't steal focus from the main page*. This means you can *keep clicking on the poll button* to keep changing the results. There's no need to keep closing new windows or tabs.
Posted by: David | December 3, 2008 3:26 PM
It's a slaughter 71%
Posted by: 8teist | December 3, 2008 3:26 PM
What a pack of whiny crybabies these gibbering creationists are when they get a taste of their own medicine .
Posted by: Platypus | December 3, 2008 3:27 PM
Boomer @ 38: "...most people understand that science education is an important institution that should not be undermined by stone age superstition."
Now now, be fair. These are at least Iron Age superstitions.
Posted by: Curt Cameron | December 3, 2008 3:28 PM
It's up to 73% YES now. Shall we inform Ken Ham so he can update his article?
Posted by: Nightsky | December 3, 2008 3:28 PM
73-26% split! Go Forces of Righteousness, go!
Posted by: Boomer | December 3, 2008 3:29 PM
Platypus @ 43:
I stand corrected. Actually, I was demonstrating by example how cretinists make authoritative statements about subjects they know nothing about. Yeah, that's it!
Posted by: mus | December 3, 2008 3:30 PM
There, I did my part(s) and helped it reach 75%. Now I gotta go study organic chemistry (eep!)
Posted by: Darth Wader | December 3, 2008 3:31 PM
Allright! That will show the Kentucky Enquirer! I really feel like we accomplished something here.
Posted by: Pete UK | December 3, 2008 3:32 PM
Just added my "yes" vote. Interesting choice of colour in the bar chart showing the cumulative voting: red for yes, blue for no. I venture to suggest the other way would be more natural, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Posted by: Steve P. | December 3, 2008 3:32 PM
The horde is making a mark! Up to 76% now! Why is this so much fun?
Posted by: RR | December 3, 2008 3:34 PM
Yes 1152 (76.19%)
No 360 (23.81%)
Wow... that was fast!
Posted by: Jackie | December 3, 2008 3:35 PM
I am quite amused that this poll has been completely owned and then clicked refresh only seconds later shows more yes votes. XD 78% now.
Posted by: jj | December 3, 2008 3:35 PM
From Ham's blog that PZ linked to, this caught my eye:
I wonder if this "unbiased" and adamant defender of free speech, Bill Cunningham, asked PZ for an interview? If not, he should've. I'd like to hear PZ's response to this though maybe Ham just wants more publicity good or bad.
Posted by: CaptainKendrick | December 3, 2008 3:35 PM
Gangrened Jesus on a 2x4!... we're such pricks.
There's no way that stupid-ass poll even has cookie counters.
If I had the time before I go home today, I'd write a bash script to do all my dirty work. But as it stands, I might as well answer a few of my boss's emails, and keep hitting 'refresh' in between while pretending to do real work.
Posted by: tsg | December 3, 2008 3:36 PM
"No" isn't moving, and another 500 "yes" votes will put it at 80%. Another 1500 on top of that will make it 90%.
Posted by: Doo Shabag | December 3, 2008 3:38 PM
It's really amusing to keep refreshing the poll and watch the "yes" numbers climb (it's gone up 2% while I watched, now over 81%) while the "no" number holds steady at 360 votes.
Posted by: tsg | December 3, 2008 3:38 PM
Stupid arithmetic. That should be "150 'yes' votes".
Posted by: Carlie | December 3, 2008 3:39 PM
It's curtains for you, poll. Lacy wafting curtains.
Posted by: SteveM | December 3, 2008 3:41 PM
currently at
Yes = 1587 (81.51%)
No = 360 (18.49%)
Posted by: Kristine | December 3, 2008 3:42 PM
Poor Ken hasn't figured out that news organizations only sponsor polls like these so that PZ will blog about them , sending Pharyngulites to them and upping their number of site hits. ;-)
If the "promotion does not mean that the zoo endorses the museum or that the museum endorses the zoo," why do it at all? Isn't that rather like "we here at the Disco 'Tute don't want to push ID in schools"?
Posted by: Ben Edmans | December 3, 2008 3:43 PM
WooHoo! 82% !
Kentucky Fried Creationists - Hamming it up one again.
Posted by: marty | December 3, 2008 3:44 PM
OK, Ken Ham, you can point to the poll now.
Posted by: Paul Lundgren | December 3, 2008 3:44 PM
[CylonVoice]
By. Your. Command.
[\CylonVoice]
I think we've officially left Ham with (green) egg on his face for the day.
Posted by: BpB | December 3, 2008 3:46 PM
I love poll crashing...
Posted by: Isherwood | December 3, 2008 3:47 PM
Well, it's more than fully reversed now at 86/14, though Ham has already extracted what he wanted from it and thrown it away.
Posted by: Patricia | December 3, 2008 3:47 PM
A big cyber *smooch* to all of you unseen Pharyngulites that don't post but vote like the naughty savages we all know you really are.
Posted by: jpf | December 3, 2008 3:47 PM
Wow, that was a poorly constructed poll. It practically invites stuffing. All you have to do is block cookies from cincinnati.com and then just keep pressing the "submit vote" button -- no closing windows or anything else. I personally moved the value by 2% in like ten minutes.
Posted by: c-serpent | December 3, 2008 3:49 PM
Over 86% yes now.
Posted by: Mozglubov | December 3, 2008 3:49 PM
I really don't get how people are trying to spin this as a "free speech" and "intolerance" issue. No one advocated that the Creationist Museum needs to be shut down... people just got upset that it is so laughably wrong that it shouldn't be linked to the operation of a secular, publicly funded (I'm assuming, since I believe most zoos are), ostensibly scientific organization. This is not about free speech and tolerance at all.
Posted by: s_mander_r | December 3, 2008 3:50 PM
I notice that the poll is approximately opposite from where it was when the post went up.
About 86% yes, 13% no : )
Posted by: J-Dog | December 3, 2008 3:52 PM
As of 2:50 CST, it is Yes 2567 = 87.58%, and No = IDiots = 367 or 12.42%.
Nice poll results Ham you ignoramus butthead...
Posted by: CaptainKendrick | December 3, 2008 3:52 PM
Ok kids, if you all work hard, we can get it to 99% by tomorrow morning. The poll does track your cookie, but not IP address, so just vote, flush cache/cookies, vote, flush cache/cookies, vote, etc. etc. Or if your browser blocks cookies, feel free to skip step 1.
I felt so bad about this, I gave one to the "No", just to be nice, but back now to being a prick.
Posted by: currie jean | December 3, 2008 3:52 PM
Hats off to Carlie, #58, for contextually quoting Captain Hammer. XD
Man, I'm disappointed I didn't get to participate in this one. It wouldn't been fun.
Posted by: bezoar | December 3, 2008 3:52 PM
added mine. 86% yes and rising!
Posted by: jpf | December 3, 2008 3:53 PM
This is too easy. I'm going to start voting "NO" just to mess with Ken's emotions a bit. If you see "NO" rising, that's me.
Posted by: No One Of Consequence | December 3, 2008 3:53 PM
89.89% Yes after my vote
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | December 3, 2008 3:54 PM
Stop brethern STOP. This is simply senseless slaughter! Please, I beg of you, think of the children ....
Posted by: Shaden Freud | December 3, 2008 3:54 PM
#63
Indeed.
Wow. 91% to 9%.
Posted by: mus | December 3, 2008 3:55 PM
Ooohhh, the creationists are now mobbing the site!!!
WAAAARRR!!!!!!!!
Posted by: currie jean | December 3, 2008 3:55 PM
*would've been fun.
Posted by: Katie | December 3, 2008 3:55 PM
WTF? The vote counts are going up by, like, fifteen votes per second. Oh, and it's over 90% now, just under an hour from the post. Way to go PZ.
Posted by: CaptainKendrick | December 3, 2008 3:56 PM
WATCH OUT! Ken must have been reading our comments, and we revealed what we're up to, and now has his minions are jacking up the "No" column.
This could turn into a finger-click death-race to the finish....
Posted by: joeyess | December 3, 2008 3:56 PM
Apparently it no longer shows that most people aren't stupid, Ken.
Posted by: Rey Fox | December 3, 2008 3:56 PM
"YES--The museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo's scientific mission. "
They really did seem to design the poll to make us look bad, since unfortunately, a great majority thinks that science and religion are totally best buddies. How about a "YES - The museum presents outright fucking LIES" option?
Tolerance, you say? Kennie, your museum has dinosaurs with saddles on them. You should be in a mental institution.
Posted by: jpf | December 3, 2008 3:57 PM
No, it's just me. Every time I click "NO" it goes up one.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | December 3, 2008 3:59 PM
Again I state the obvious, but it might be forgotten to some degree simply because it is so obvious--the "poll" was aimed at Kentucky, which meant that it was already stacked in the creationists' favor from the beginning, which even Ken Ham is probably intelligent enough to recognize.
It's lying with statistics, one of the few intellectual tools (though dishonest ones) that Ham has at his disposal.
Poll crashing is not something in which I normally participate, but this was an exception, because the meaninglessness of the current poll results shows up the meaninglessness of earlier poll results in a manner that Ham will have to deliberately (and noticeably to some) ignore in the future. The good thing is that he might not dare to refer to the earlier results again.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: joeyess | December 3, 2008 4:00 PM
I think Ken should be forced to dress like Jebus in a cowboy hat and then saddle up on a T-Rex when the kiddies come in, and scream at the top of his lungs; Get along, little creature of Gawwwd!!!
Posted by: Gary Bohn | December 3, 2008 4:00 PM
Dehumanization of your opponent is an important war tactic. In this case they are trying to deAmericanize their opponent by claiming an anti-free speech tyranny is destroying their God given right to be stupid.
Posted by: kapumichael,Web USA | December 3, 2008 4:01 PM
We got a huge lead, but it seems that the jeebus lovers are try to crash now, too.
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | December 3, 2008 4:01 PM
No, it's just me. Every time I click "NO" it goes up one.
Atta boy! Fairness at its very best. Although you seem to be tiring .... 9.5% just breached down to 9.46% .... click faster!
Posted by: Mike | December 3, 2008 4:02 PM
Over 80% yes. Hambone can stew on that now.
Posted by: jpf | December 3, 2008 4:02 PM
I doubled the number of NO votes, and still the YES is increasing in percentage.
Posted by: Dave H | December 3, 2008 4:02 PM
Ok, it is exactly one hour after PZ made the post and the yes column has 7157 (90%) votes and the no column has 764 votes (9%).
Impressive.
Posted by: joeyess | December 3, 2008 4:03 PM
Look at these numbers. i think that this has got to be proof that god's hand is involved in this poll:
You've already voted in this poll.
The Cincinnati Zoo ended a promotional deal between the zoo and the Creation Museum after protests. The deal offered tickets for both the Festival of Lights and a museum event called Bethlehem's Blessings. Should the promotion have been canceled?
Yes - The museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo's scientific mission.
7771
(90.91%)
No - The promotion does not mean that the zoo endorses the museum or that the museum endorses the zoo.
777
(9.09%)
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Posted by: KH | December 3, 2008 4:04 PM
"Yes" is now above 90%. Given that there were only 400 votes as of PZ's original post today, Ken Ham's "86% no" statistic from last night must have been based on a grand total of 7 votes only--1 random "yes" vote and 6 "no" votes from his own various browsers.
Posted by: Scaryduck | December 3, 2008 4:04 PM
91.3% plays 8.7%
Job done.
Posted by: Lambert Heenan | December 3, 2008 4:04 PM
This is great. I just voted Yes a few times and every time the poll results window refreshes there's another 20-30 Yes votes and zero No votes - this is at half second intervals. :-)
Posted by: Blackbird | December 3, 2008 4:07 PM
Ha! This is fun!
Posted by: jpf | December 3, 2008 4:07 PM
That's because I have gotten bored. Although someone added some NOs to bump the number up from the Godly 777 I left it at.
Posted by: Ben Edmans | December 3, 2008 4:07 PM
Dead mouse finger.
Can't wait to explain tomorrow why I can't hold a pen.
*Sigh*
The things we do for reason...
Posted by: Jaketoadie | December 3, 2008 4:07 PM
Looks to me that a bot may have gotten a hold of the site as I am seeing Yes increase by a decent amount every time I hit refresh. Something in the area of 5-10 per second
Posted by: Vegeta | December 3, 2008 4:08 PM
It's OVER NINE THOUSAAAANNNNND!!!!!!
Posted by: Robert W | December 3, 2008 4:08 PM
Love it! Up over 90% now. Take that, Ken.
Even though this isn't a statistically valid poll, I think it goes to show that the VAST MAJORITY of people are free-thinking, logical, reasoning entities not willing to blur the line between science and superstitious bunk.
Ha ha.
Posted by: Corey Schlueter | December 3, 2008 4:08 PM
Yes - The museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo's scientific mission. at 92.55% (over 10,000 votes cast)
Posted by: Hayate | December 3, 2008 4:09 PM
Does anyone else get the feeling that it doesn't have any sort of multi-vote protection on it? I waited two minutes, hit refresh, and the totals went up a LOT, then I hit it a couple more times, really quickly, and it went up a couple more.
Posted by: Patricia | December 3, 2008 4:09 PM
Hey PZ, your ol' buddy at the Catholic League is warming up to fight the U.N. over the gay issue. Don't give Ham all the credit for being an idiot today.
Posted by: GumbyTheCat | December 3, 2008 4:09 PM
It's too bad that Ham doesn't allow comments on his blog, how intellectualy brave he is! I'd be happy to let him know that the poll results are now like 94% to 6% in reason's favor.
Posted by: Gary Bohn | December 3, 2008 4:09 PM
PZ, please post something else before this becomes an addiction that consumes your readers.
Posted by: kapumichael,Web USA | December 3, 2008