Pharyngula

Rick Warren’s legacy

We have a new word added to the English language in honor of the teachings of people like Warren: saddlebacking. Share it and use it!

Comments

  1. #1 Fernando Magyar
    January 29, 2009

    All night?!

  2. #2 Joseph
    January 29, 2009

    Do you really lose your virginity with anal?

  3. #3 Wowbagger
    January 29, 2009

    Damn it, those Christians get to have all the fun.

  4. #4 Sigmund
    January 29, 2009

    “All night?”
    I suspect they’d be feeling haggard by the morning.

  5. #5 Nerd of Redhead
    January 29, 2009

    Funny how they do it without doing it. But then, for illogical ideas, being Xian helps.

  6. #6 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 29, 2009

    So when teens are saddlebacking I guess they produce a fair amount of Santorum

  7. #7 Porco Dio
    January 29, 2009

    Share saddlebacking and use it, says PZ…

    thanks!!! but i will wear a raincoat!

  8. #8 Wowbagger
    January 29, 2009

    Funny how they do it without doing it. But then, for illogical ideas, being Xian helps.

    Yeah, I once had a conversation about this with a Christian guy I knew who was talking about how much he’d done with his girlfriend – everything else other than penetration (no saddlebacking though) – and I asked him why he didn’t just go ‘all the way’, to which he said that it would be wrong – but what they were doing was okay, ‘technically’.

    My response to him was that if it’s alright, what did his priest (or whatever the witchdoctor of his particular sect is called) tell him when he spoke to him about it. He got really uncomfortable and told me he wouldn’t tell the priest because ‘it was private’.

    Which told me pretty much everything. So yeah, they’ll do pretty anything they can to try and trick their God. I guess they don’t have much faith in his omniscience.

  9. #9 brokensoldier, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Definitely not a good idea to read this during my morning cup of coffee. My very hot (and, upon its expectoration, ultimately very painful) morning cup of coffee.

  10. #10 MissPrism
    January 29, 2009

    If you’ve been saddlebacking before you get napolied, are you allowed an abortion?

  11. #11 AF Comm Guy
    January 29, 2009

    I don’t know what is funnier, the definition or the fact that someone has a dedicated website for it.

  12. #12 JackC
    January 29, 2009

    What an odd term, being as placing ones self on the back of ones partner nets one not even remote access to ones goal.

    The wizards coining such terms (I think my 8th grader may know some of them) don’t understand the purpose of a saddle, where it is placed or possibly just need to wait a few more years for a Human Anatomy course.

    The concept itself…. just weird. Does it preserve virginity? Well I suppose technically, for a female, perhaps yes. It definitely preserves the persistent myth that only the female has any virginity to preserve.

    But then, we are talking about people in whom the concept of “reason” is considerably atrophied.

    JC

  13. #13 black wolf
    January 29, 2009

    This is a nice parallel to the contraptions (Orthodox?) Jews invent to avoid actually doing work on the sabbath. Some of those were shown in ‘Religulous’. The inventor/salesman got really nervous when asked if G-d was going to be fine with that sort of deception. But in their way of thinking, it’s probably ok to build and sell the stuff, and it’s your own fault if you actually use it then and get smoten.

  14. #14 JeffreyD
    January 29, 2009

    Despite what some people may think, saddlebacking can lead to an unwanted child. Examples of this would include Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Savage and others.

    Ciao y’all

  15. #15 brokensoldier, OM
    January 29, 2009

    JC:

    But then, we are talking about people in whom the concept of “reason” is considerably atrophied.

    I think you’re being way too generous there – atrophy suggests simple neglect of use. What these people have done to their ability to reason is – IMHO – far more deliberate. They’ve essentially taken it out back, beaten it mercilessly with a club, and left it for dead in the gutter, only taking with them enough bits and pieces to throw together weak arguments without realizing how utterly idiotic and redundant they have become, resulting in their unique ability to focus on any piece of sympathetic junk science they can find and collectively hold it up as support for their claims, all while keeping a straight face, no less. To me, that’s by far the more impressive accomplishment…

  16. #16 Miguel
    January 29, 2009

    Purity Ball? I really hope Bill isn’t Heather’s father. *shudder*

  17. #17 JeffreyD
    January 29, 2009

    BrokenSoldier, off topic, but you might want to visit DailyKos for http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/1/28/234649/371/292/676015 “Body armor: some people get rich, some people die (Part 1)” if you have not seen it.

    Ciao

  18. #18 Shaden Freud
    January 29, 2009

    Bill Maher on saddlebacking (before it was known as such).

  19. #19 Christopher Risi
    January 29, 2009

    http://www.bttoronto.ca/poll/?p=1&id=1106

    This is a new poll in Canada I don’t know how to message PZ directly but 75% of Breakfast Television Toronto people think that Atheism ads on buses are offensive! Maybe yet another poll to take back?

  20. #20 Zeno
    January 29, 2009

    If “saddlebacking” has now been hijacked as a synonym for anal sex, how do we now refer to the act of doing it on horseback? “Joining the 15-hands high club”?

  21. #21 NewEnglandBob
    January 29, 2009

    The fundies do this due to better sensations since it is closer to their brains.

    This is also the genesis of the phrase “shit for brains”

  22. #22 Lindsay
    January 29, 2009

    This definition is courtesy of the always wonderful Dan Savage and the readers of Savage Love, who previously brought us the alternate definition of ‘santorum.’

  23. #23 Rynaldo
    January 29, 2009

    Christopher Risi wrote:

    “http://www.bttoronto.ca/poll/?p=1&id=1106

    This is a new poll in Canada I don’t know how to message PZ directly but 75% of Breakfast Television Toronto people think that Atheism ads on buses are offensive! Maybe yet another poll to take back?”

    It looks like this poll has been changed around, it now shows only 23% think that the ads are offensive.

  24. #24 No One Of Consequence
    January 29, 2009

    Great Idea. We need to do this for more words…

    * Phelpsing
    * Rapture
    * Born Again

  25. #25 LisaJ
    January 29, 2009

    Christopher Risi, I was so angry when I read your post at #19! I do enjoy BT most mornings, and I was shocked at your reported results. Luckily, it looks like either you interpreted the results the wrong way, OR all of us Pharynguloids managed to switch the results around in a matter of minutes. Either way, I am much happier now to see that 77% of poll takers are not offended by the atheist signs. I heard about this on the radio this morning actually, and gladly they were supportive of the signs. It seems that the atheist signs are starting to spread at least throughout most major Ontario cities. Yay for Canada for not being offended!

  26. #26 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 29, 2009

    If “saddlebacking” has now been hijacked as a synonym for anal sex, how do we now refer to the act of doing it on horseback? “Joining the 15-hands high club”?

    Well it’s not just a synonym for Anal sex, it’s a particular kind of anal sex done to avoid breaking “the rules”.

  27. #27 Ian Monroe
    January 29, 2009

    @Zeno: Saddlebacking isn’t in any dictionary that I know of. Up-to-now, saddleback is a noun used to describe things in a saddle-shape I think.

    @JackC: this term wasn’t coined by 8th graders, it’s in reference to Rick Warren’s church and the whole ‘purity’ movement which research has shown results in more anal sex. And no anal sex doesn’t preserve you virginity, but this is what some Christian teens are led to believe via abstinence-only education (which I guess avoids the topic of sex, so it leaves it to the teenagers imagination what constitutes sex or not).

  28. #28 ennui
    January 29, 2009

    Saddlebacking all night? Nah, that’s gotta be an exaggeration–what we might call saddlefrontin’.

    *gets coat, shuffles out door 2*

  29. #29 Ted Dahlberg
    January 29, 2009

    Posted by: No One Of Consequence

    Great Idea. We need to do this for more words…

    * Phelpsing
    * Rapture
    * Born Again

    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    “After saddlebacking all night after the Purity Ball Bill just raptured and never called Heather again.”

  30. #30 csrster
    January 29, 2009

    The practice of using heterosexual anal sex as a way to preserve your virginity until marriage predates christianity. The poet Archilocus was complaining about it in the 7th Century BCE.

  31. #31 Wendy
    January 29, 2009

    Mary was a virgin….if you don’t count anal.

  32. #32 Wendy
    January 29, 2009

    My favorite t-shirt ever: Mary was a virgin…if you don’t count anal.

  33. #33 Kobra
    January 29, 2009

    Funny, I always thought “Saddleback” was some kind of gay cowboy slang. Nevertheless, I will use this word.

  34. #34 Naked Bunny with a Whip
    January 29, 2009

    This definition is courtesy of the always wonderful Dan Savage

    Not always wonderful. He has his own blind spots and sexual bigotry.

  35. #35 BAllanJ
    January 29, 2009

    The BT phone in poll was running about 900 to 750 for “offended” when I left for work this morning… tied earlier. I expect the offended would be more likely to phone in than the unoffended.

    Re re-use of religious words: we used to have a condom store here in Kingston called Wrap-sure. I loved that name.

  36. #36 Matt Heath
    January 29, 2009

    Naked Bunny @43: What like? Are you thinking about his lack of sympathy to people who are squicked by weird requests?

  37. #37 Evolving Squid
    January 29, 2009

    This is a bit off topic, but it tends to be a hot topic in the US lately, and I am sure it will interest readers here.

    What happens when your doctor’s religion interferes with their work in Canada:

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorials/Some+medicine/1229242/story.html

    It’s unfortunate that this sort of bullshit happens here too. They’ve filed a human rights complaint, and while I’m not a fan of those (usually kangaroo) courts, at least this sort of thing is what they were intended for.

  38. #38 AJ Milne
    January 29, 2009

    Nah, that’s gotta be an exaggeration–what we might call saddlefrontin’.

    I feel obliged to say: that’s just awesome.

  39. #39 Matt Heath
    January 29, 2009

    me@#36 43\mapsto 34

    mathematician fails at numbers!

  40. #40 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Funny how all three words coined for a sexual activity; santorum, peg and saddleback; are all anal.

  41. #41 Christopher Risi
    January 29, 2009

    Hmm I didn’t think I interpreted the results wrong, but I may have! They were running two of the same poll one is a call in poll the other is a online poll and like BAllanJ said the call in poll the offended people were definitely higher! I don’t see the phone in poll on the website however.

    Even so I would prefer to see it more obliterated then just 74% of people not offended!

  42. #42 Tulse
    January 29, 2009

    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    Ted FTW!

  43. #43 Christopher Risi
    January 29, 2009

    If you want to find out more about it there is an amusing article at the globe and mail:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090129.ATHEIST29/TPStory/National

    “”There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

    Charles McVety, president of the Canada Family Action Coalition, which fought against the legalization of same-sex marriages, said his group has not decided whether it will formally complain about the ads once they appear.

    “On the surface, I’m all for free speech. … However, though, these are attack ads,” Dr. McVety, president of Canada Christian College in Toronto, said in an interview yesterday.””

  44. #44 Andyo
    January 29, 2009

    I think Savage got at least the idea from Colbert. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  45. #45 Evolving Squid
    January 29, 2009

    “On the surface, I’m all for free speech. … However, though, these are attack ads,”

    That’s awesome. he should be held to that standard. By that very statement, every public display of religion is an attack on both the non-religious and people of other religions.

    I wonder if he really wants people to start painting with that brush.

  46. #46 Jared Lessl
    January 29, 2009

    > The practice of using heterosexual anal sex as a way to preserve your virginity until marriage predates christianity

    Yes, and now it has a name.

  47. #47 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Andyo, you would be wrong about that. Dan Savage started spreading santorum back in 2003. Long before Colbert got his show.

  48. #48 george.w
    January 29, 2009

    Do they even read their own bible? Jesus said that if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, it was (in God’s eyes) the same as if you’d actually had adultery with her. Presumably the same would be true with saddlebacking, though the bible is silent on the use or non-use of lube.

  49. #49 Roger
    January 29, 2009

    Sounds patently stupid (quelle suprise!). If “saddlebacking” is done in order to preserve the virginity of some dead zombie-worshipping teenagers, it seems only partially effective. Sure, the saddlebackee (presumably the female) gets to say that no one has penetrated her secret garden (only her compost pile), but the saddlebacker (presumably the male) can’t say that he’s a virgin–after all, his garden implement has, in some way, um, “tilled soil,” hasn’t it? So, no,young Christian buck, you are *not* a virgin if you saddleback. You’re just a common whore, like the rest of us.

  50. #50 Naked Bunny with a Whip
    January 29, 2009

    @Matt Heath #36: Savage is of the opinion that the vast majority of bisexual men are either homosexuals in denial or heterosexuals who are looking for easy sex with guys but who can’t commit emotionally to another man. This is actually a common view among heterosexuals and homosexuals alike, so it’s not terribly surprising that Savage buys into it, but disappointing given his obvious flexibility in other areas.

    Here’s an article with links, since I can only post one URL:
    http://www.newscred.com/article/show/title/dan-savage-cool-with-drinking-piss-weird-about-bisexuality-sex-organs-489b747b1f924

  51. #51 Prometheus
    January 29, 2009

    And the winner for “things about home schooled kids you would rather not know” is……..

    Honestly that’s horrid. Could fundies be any more twisted than making legalistic loopholes in some bronze age bogus death cult’s list of taboos? It makes me kind of nervous because the same line of cognitive dissonance that makes an eighth grader think “Oh hey, they didn’t say, ‘No Anal!’” might make them notice that babies aren’t SPECIFICALLY listed in the old testament with the stuff Yaweh says you can’t butcher and eat.

  52. #52 Chris Hughes
    January 29, 2009

    Here in the UK there is a Saddleback Breeders Club — the Saddleback being a breed of pig…

  53. #53 Tulse
    January 29, 2009

    the saddlebackee (presumably the female) gets to say that no one has penetrated her secret garden (only her compost pile)

    Now that is all kinds of comedy awesome.

  54. #54 Bryson Brown
    January 29, 2009

    Evolving Squid: I like it too– but you realize, of course, that ‘sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander’ just doesn’t apply to these guys. McVety is a perfect example of the blow-hard religious bully– he talks (yells) over anyone who tries to argue with him and then complains when anyone actually resists being talked over…

  55. #55 ennui
    January 29, 2009

    I know it’s corny, but it just makes my brown eyes blue, thinking about how hard these kids are trying to stay cellibutt and holey.

  56. #56 Ted Dahlberg
    January 29, 2009

    Here in the UK there is a Saddleback Breeders Club — the Saddleback being a breed of pig…

    I… no. No. Better not go there. But the images in my head, oy!

  57. #57 Benjamin Geiger
    January 29, 2009

    Janine, Shapeshifting Wit @ #47:

    Hasn’t Savage been “spreading santorum” for a lot longer than that? He may have coined the *term* in 2003, but…

  58. #58 Brad
    January 29, 2009

    Wow, it’s now possible to saddleback and bareback at the same time!

  59. #59 bezoar
    January 29, 2009

    been doing this for years and had no idea that it had a name :-)

  60. #60 Elliott Grasett
    January 29, 2009

    Christopher Risi (# 19) appears to have his bacts fackward.
    73% of respondents are for the ads, only 27% against.

    Hey! has this poll been getting a little help from PZ’s fans?

  61. #61 Breakfast
    January 29, 2009

    Dan Savage is a fucking genius.

  62. #62 Bob
    January 29, 2009

    Was it Molly Ivans who replied when asked if pregnancy could result from anal sex, “Where do you think Republicans come from?”?

  63. #63 Tulse
    January 29, 2009

    And speaking of Dan Savage:

    here’s another interesting study: While straight kids are busily boning each other’s butts?the better to preserve their virginities!?gay teenagers are knocking each other up. According to a study out of the University of British Columbia, lesbian and gay teenagers are seven times likelier to get knocked up than their straight peers. How the hell does that happen? Well, gay teens are having straight sex in order “to prove they are heterosexual to avoid harassment and discrimination” by their parents and peers. In other words, gay kids are still having heterosexual sex under duress. This is where abstinence education and homophobia have gotten us: Gay kids are having vaginal intercourse and straight kids are having anal intercourse. Good work, sexphobes!

    Yep, that’s irony.

  64. #64 Andyo
    January 29, 2009

    Janine,

    I was talking about “saddlebacking” though, not the general inventing words thing. Although, saddlebacking sounds dirty (the good kind of dirty) already, I think all late night talk show hosts have had a go at the word.

  65. #65 NVattorney
    January 29, 2009

    Why does every generation act like anal sex is something new? Regardless, I first heard about this particular “trend” about seven years ago.

  66. #66 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Kind of gives added meaning to Back In The Saddle Again.

  67. #67 Randomfactor
    January 29, 2009

    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    If we’re going to re-define the term it should make some reference to the partner’s being left behind, um, prematurely.

    Cf: Revelation 3:11

  68. #68 Hugh M.
    January 29, 2009

    ^^ All this and still masturbation is “self abuse”.

  69. #69 Walton
    January 29, 2009

    Ewww. This thread is absolutely disgusting. Why did I read it?

  70. #70 Randomfactor
    January 29, 2009

    ^^ All this and still masturbation is “self abuse”.

    Not “the laying-on of hands”?

  71. #71 Jimbob
    January 29, 2009

    Did you all hear about the sorority girl who asked her doctor if saddlebacking was OK.

    The doc asked her if there was any pain or discomfort, and upon a negative response said:

    “Well, so long as you take appropriate precautions against getting pregnant, go ahead and enjoy your self.”

    The shocked sorority girl said:

    “You can get pregnant from anal sex??”

    “Of course,” replied the doc. “Whrere did you think attorneys came from anyway?!”
    ;-)

  72. #72 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Patricia, you are needed. Someone has to pull the stick out of Walton’s ass.

  73. #73 Ted Dahlberg
    January 29, 2009
    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    If we’re going to re-define the term it should make some reference to the partner’s being left behind, um, prematurely.

    Cf: Revelation 3:11

    Quite right. Second revised edition:

    Rapture: vb: To depart unceremoniously after sex leaving behind one’s unsatisfied partner. (Synonyms: lahaye)

  74. #74 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 29, 2009

    Ewww. This thread is absolutely disgusting. Why did I read it?

    Walton.

    ANAL SEX ANAL SEX ANAL SEX.

    they’re only words. You’ll be ok.

  75. #75 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    And then of course there’s the horizontal variation:
    side-saddlebacking.

  76. #76 Dianne
    January 29, 2009

    Did you all hear about the sorority girl who asked her doctor if saddlebacking was OK.

    No, no, no. Wrong response. Anal (and oral, vaginal, knee, toy, phone, etc) sex is ok as long as you take appropriate emotional and physical precautions. Saddlebacking–having anal sex in order to “preserve” your virginity and avoid punishment at the hands of a sick, twisted imaginary being and/or his sick, twisted and quite real followers–is emotionally dangerous. And is more likely to be physically dangerous because saddlebackers are likely to be barebacking as well.

    (Yeah, I know it’s a joke. Just can’t resist adding a lecture sometimes anyway.)

  77. #77 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    Walton needs a good prostate massage.

  78. #78 Matt Heath
    January 29, 2009

    Naked Bunny: O Right. I actually remember him discussing the arousal study thing. The difference in arousal patterns is interesting in itself but Savage’s reaction was kind of weird. I mean he must know that the weird fetish stuff he deals with is partly about high-level mental stuff and won’t reduce to arousal profiles and yet he assumes which sex people want to fuck will reduce down easily. I think you (and the writer at Jezebel) are probably right about his squickedness.

    I suppose in the interests of equality we ought to attribute his biphobia to a similar root as the default for homophobes. Dan Savage: closet bisexual.

  79. #79 Ted Dahlberg
    January 29, 2009

    Patricia, you are needed. Someone has to pull the stick out of Walton’s ass.

    Walton needs a good prostate massage.

    Isn’t that what the stick is for?

  80. #80 JackC
    January 29, 2009

    BrokenSoldier@15 – I do not disagree. It was my first post of the day and I had only started my coffee. Or perhaps I was being “generous”.

    I will just note that one of the defs for “atrophy” is “arrested development or loss of a part or organ incidental to the normal development or life of an animal or plant”

    I submit it still applies, though your treatment is more rigorous.

    Ian@27: Have YOU had YOUR coffee yet?

    JC

  81. #81 Andyo
    January 29, 2009
    Posted by: Walton | January 29, 2009 11:28 AM

    Ewww. This thread is absolutely disgusting. Why did I read it?

    Says Walton, #69. Coincidence? You decide.

    By the way Walton, you probably should have stopped way before #68, if you didn’t really wanna read the thread.

  82. #82 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    I’ll have a hard time keeping a straight face next time I drive through and see all the well-scrubbed Christian kids earnestly working away at In ‘N Out Burger.

  83. #83 Louis
    January 29, 2009

    I might have missed something here, but is anal sex when you tidy up in a most thorough, possibly obsessive, fashion after coitus?

    If so the wife and I have been doing it for years.

    Louis

    P.S. My coat, I’ll be getting it.

  84. #84 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    Posted by: Bob | January 29, 2009 11:00 AM
    Was it Molly Ivans who replied when asked if pregnancy could result from anal sex, “Where do you think Republicans come from?”?

    No. It was Molly Ivins.

  85. #85 Silver Fox
    January 29, 2009

    Clicked over to Vox Day’s blog and found that he has a whole thread devoted to PZ. I think its titled: Why the ugly atheist ran away or something like that. His regular posters are eating PZ’s lunch over there. You might want to give it a quick glance. They do refer to Durston as a second rate Canadian apologist. From what I have been able to find out about KD, they undervalue his talents; he does appear to be a top of the line debater.

  86. #86 Matt Heath
    January 29, 2009

    argh… I don’t want to pile on Walton; I always feel bad if I do, but seriously, the prudish, priggish, slightly pompous, Tory-libertarian undergrad just makes it so tempting sometimes.

  87. #87 Bill Dauphin
    January 29, 2009

    Rev BDC (@73):

    I’m afraid it’s not the words, nor even anal sex per se, that squicks Walton: Some comments in previous threads lead me to believe it’s the whole concept of sex that turns him off.

    And that makes me sad (really… no snark intended). Walton, sexuality is a truly glorious part of human life. Inevitably there will be particular expressions of sexuality that will not be to your taste, but I beg you to get past, for your own sake, this notion you’ve expressed that humanity would be better off without sex altogether.

    In addition, try to break away from the instinct to equate not to my taste with ewww… disgusting, as this is inherently judgmental, and will lead you to denigrate people based on their tastes, even when that’s not your intent. I don’t much like organ meats or offal, for instance, but I don’t run to shut off the TV when someone on Iron Chef America cooks a liver or Tony Bourdain waxes rhapsodic over some tripe he’s eating. I’ve learned to appreciate others’ joy, even at things I wouldn’t myself enjoy.

    I won’t repeat the exhortation that “you need to get laid!”… but I hope you will make some kind of peace with your sexuality sooner rather than later. If you do, I predict it may take you in directions you wouldn’t necessarily guess at today.

  88. #88 Hugh M.
    January 29, 2009

    Not “the laying-on of hands”?

    ^^ I’ve done lathering of hands, is that close?

    Walton.
    I find it disgusting that so many young adults are sexually repressed to the stage that, in order to express their sexuality, they are required to harm themselves. This thread I merely find amusing.

  89. #89 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Silly old goat, they are not eating PZ’s lunch. They are battling straw men. And you are being very rude by going off topic.

    Say! Does anyone want to bugger the old goat?

  90. #90 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    For some reason, I can’t Van Morrison’s Brown Eyed Girl out of my head today.

  91. #91 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    Posted by: Wowbagger | January 29, 2009 7:35 AM
    “Damn it, those Christians get to have all the fun.”

    I’m surprised they even know the difference between the two portals.
    I guess that’s what the “Holey Spirit” is for…

  92. #92 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Siver Fox:
    Ho hum *yawn*

    Hmmm, as I remember SF, you were the guy saying Astral Projection proved that the spirit/soul exists, and therefore God exists.

  93. #93 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    JanineTLB:
    Girl, you bein’ nasty. Nobody wants to be anywhere near that old goat’s hindquarters.

  94. #94 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    E.V. Thanks, now I have Astral Weeks playing in my head. Time to find Madame George.

  95. #95 jamie d
    January 29, 2009

    roger @49: Protecting virginity is really all about controlling female sexuality anyway, so they don’t care about male virginity as much. Besides, there’s not so much chance of visible consequences for the guy as there is for the gal… she’s the one who could potentially get knocked up, after all; especially since, due to abstinence-only sex education, they don’t know that condoms actually are effective for the same purpose.

  96. #96 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    After saddlebacking they turned to each other, say, i love you, I love you
    The way that young lovers do

  97. #97 And-U-say
    January 29, 2009

    One of the best threads ever.

    Blazing Saddles – a whole new meaning. Mel Brooks was WAY ahead of his time.

  98. #98 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    To the religious right, condoms are a totem of the godless.

  99. #99 Anne Nonymous
    January 29, 2009

    Honestly I’m not a fan of this definition for “saddlebacking”. It really ought to mean sex with a condom, as contrasted to “barebacking”, sex without a condom.

  100. #100 llewelly
    January 29, 2009

    Funny. But I find it very weird that both saddlebacking and barebacking refer to unprotected anal sex.

    Does anyone know a slang term for protected anal sex?

  101. #101 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    January 29, 2009

    Clicked over to Vox Day’s blog and found that he has a whole thread devoted to PZ. I think its titled: Why the ugly atheist ran away or something like that. His regular posters are eating PZ’s lunch over there. You might want to give it a quick glance. They do refer to Durston as a second rate Canadian apologist. From what I have been able to find out about KD, they undervalue his talents; he does appear to be a top of the line debater.

    Let me see hos this relates to this thread.

    Vox Day

    Anal.

    Vox Day has his head up his ass?

    Vox Day talks out of his ass?

    Interesting.

    Silver Fox. What is your take on Anal Sex?

    Do you prefer to be facing the person or are you more of a doggy style type?

  102. #102 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    “GodLube” now comes in three delicious flavors:

    “Wine” The perfect accompaniment to help her relax and and ease the way.
    “Wafer” For when just two won’t do and you must share with a third.
    And the original but still popular crowd pleasing “Fish”.

  103. #103 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Does anyone know a slang term for protected anal sex?

    Sheath dip? (It sort of goes with the western theme).
    (I’m sure Hank Fox got that one.)

  104. #104 Hairhead
    January 29, 2009

    I think this thread shows two (2) distinct things:

    1) That the human drive/desire for sexual intimacy is just about the most powerful thing we have, able to overturn decades of cruel, sadistic, brainwashing and able to stimulate the mind to extremely creative ex post facto rationalizing of the satisfaction, however partial, deviant, twisted, or strange, of that drive.

    2) Everybody is squicked about something. Everybody. The libertarian polysexual into BDSM, cross-dressing, role-play, and bestiality will draw the line at, oh . . feet! That person will declare self-righteously that “shrimping” (the sucking of toes) is simply the *most disgusting* thing imaginable, and anyone who enjoys that perversion is . . (fill in the blank).

    I am the son of a minister, brought up deeply ignorant and fearful of sex, and it has taken a *long* time to come to terms with my own individual sexuality, which, unfortunately, is *squicky* to the majority of binary-thinking society. I think one of the three most damaging acts of religion is its insertion into and between the couple/sexual unit. (The other two are: creating “the other” whom it is acceptable to rape, enslave, torture, and kill; and the denial of physical evidence.)

    Rant over.

  105. #105 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    “Does anyone know a slang term for protected anal sex?”

    Back End Security

  106. #106 Guy Incognito
    January 29, 2009

    Silver Fox reminds of that one weirdo who pops in occasionally to report the opinions of that other weirdo, minus the really poor English.

  107. #107 Bill Dauphin
    January 29, 2009

    Louis (@83):

    You remind me of a favorite joke (an actual exchange from a forum I used to participate on, really, but it reads like a “written” joke):

    Q: Does “anal retentive” have a hyphen?
    A: No; “anal retentive” has a colon!

    I’ll be here all week; don’t forget to tip your waiters….

    Re Dan Savage (@various):

    I haven’t followed the whole Savage-versus-the-Bis kerfuffle closely, but the one time I heard him speak on the subject (an interview on Susie Bright’s audible.com podcast) he was at great pains to make it clear he wasn’t denying the reality of bisexuality. Rather, he was saying that, in part because being bi has become (in some circles, anyway) trendy, some folks might be publicly identifying themselves that way even if that label didn’t accurately portray their indwelling sexuality. The examples he gave — gay men in some degree of self-denial, who find it socially easier to call themselves bi than fully come out as gay; teens still in the process of discovering their true sexuality, etc. — made sense to me… but then, as a middle-aged vanilla straight guy, what do I know? As I say, I haven’t followed this argument closely, but Savage is so openminded and humane in general that it’s hard for me to imagine he’s truly a “biphobe.”

    Personally, I think some folks have a sort of Schrodinger’s Cat sexuality: neither gay nor straight until they “open the box” by falling in love with someone. I have in mind a woman my wife and I met and befriended while teaching in Korea. This woman was totally focused, while we knew her, on finding a man, yet shortly after we all returned to the U.S., we got word from her that she’d fallen in love with a woman… and they’ve now lived together as a completely committed couple for more than two decades. This woman who, AFAIK, had never had the slightest passing sexual thought about another woman was transformed more or less instantly into a completely stereotypical (in the nicest sense of the word) long-term lesbian partner.

    I suppose it’s possible she’d spent the first 30-some years of her life denying her essential nature, and her apparent boy-craziness when we knew her was subconscious overcompensation… but I tend to think not. Instead, I think she was just hungry to love and be loved, and that mattered much more to her than the gender of her lover. I’ve always thought that if the Brownian motion of life had thrown her together with a man who loved her and wanted to share her life in the way her current partner does, she’d have been just as happy with that.

    But I’ve never quite had the chutzpah to ask her about this theory, so I might just be talking through my hat. It’s happened before.

  108. #108 The Countess
    January 29, 2009

    Not only have Christian teens who make “purity pledges” been “saddlebacking” for many years, they are almost as likely as non-religious teens to get an STD.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48509-2005Mar18?language=printer

    “Teenagers who take virginity pledges — public declarations to abstain from sex — are almost as likely to be infected with a sexually transmitted disease as those who never made the pledge, an eight-year study released yesterday found.

    Although young people who sign a virginity pledge delay the initiation of sexual activity, marry at younger ages and have fewer sexual partners, they are also less likely to use condoms and more likely to experiment with oral and anal sex, said the researchers from Yale and Columbia universities.”

    That article is from 2005. I love the term “saddlebacking”, though. Suitable.

  109. #109 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    “After saddlebacking they turned to each other…”

    When saddlebacking only one turns.

  110. #110 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Mayhempix, please just play along. I was working a Van Morrison theme.

  111. #111 Epikt
    January 29, 2009

    If they really wanted to promote abstinence, circulating pictures of Rick Warren saddlebacking would be a good start.

  112. #112 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Unfortunately the ‘get the fence post removed from Waltons ass’ fund never got over $40 in donations.

    (A saddleback is also a land formation and a New Zealand wattlebird.)

  113. #113 jimmiraybob
    January 29, 2009

    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    I assume this would include leaving the clothes behind…perhaps as in beating a too hasty retreat out the back door.

  114. #114 AJ Milne
    January 29, 2009

    If they really wanted to promote abstinence, circulating pictures of Rick Warren saddlebacking would be a good start…

    Or, for that matter, just suggest the same in a blog comment thread, at which point mental imagery will get the job done more or less as well.

    (/… Thanks, but not this decade, dear. I have a headache.)

  115. #115 Fred Mounts
    January 29, 2009

    Remember everyone, we’re to be nice to Walton, no matter how stupid, twisted, asinine, hypocritical, or otherwise nonsensical his comments may be.

    Perhaps he needs saddlebacked. Is the fundraiser to get him laid still ongoing?

  116. #116 Muffin
    January 29, 2009

    Wow – sure makes you wonder what the whole “And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab” spiel REALLY meant. :)

  117. #117 JackC
    January 29, 2009

    Mayhempix@83 – you just HAD to make me remember this place didn’t you?

  118. #118 jimmiraybob
    January 29, 2009

    Rapture: vb: To leave unceremoniously after sex.

    I assume this would include leaving the clothes behind…perhaps as in beating a too hasty retreat out the back door.

    While saddlebacking one afternoon Dick and Jane noticed Jane’s husband pulling into the driveway. Dick was suddenly raptured leaving Jane to explain the mysterious ways of the Lard as manifest in the mystery of the holy clothing left behind.

  119. #119 WRMartin
    January 29, 2009

    Does anyone know a slang term for protected anal sex?

    Anyone for saddlebagging?
    The term, I mean. Except for Walton – that was a proposal, Walton.

    [watching Walton run away screaming]

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that. (Watching Walton run, that is.) ;)

  120. #120 jimmiraybob
    January 29, 2009

    Having thought that my first comment had been raptured I proceeded to expand upon it and post again. I was promptly saddlebacked by the mysterious ways of the internets, when on the third second it arose. Apologies for my double post with bonus feature.

  121. #121 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Y’know, Rick Warren sure does have a purty mouth….
    I’m sure it’s just that beard he’s sporting.

  122. #122 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    @JackC #117

    It’s another sign that the Rapture (Rupture?) is on it’s way.

  123. #123 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    @ Janine, Leftist Bozo
    “Mayhempix, please just play along. I was working a Van Morrison theme.”

    G.L.O.R.Yyyyyy!!!!!
    Glory Hole!
    G.L.O.R.Yyyyyy!!!!!
    Glory Hole!
    Yeh yeh yeh yeh yeh yeh….

  124. #124 jimmiraybob
    January 29, 2009

    Does anyone know a slang term for protected anal sex?

    Saddlebacking with a slicker?

  125. #125 Peter Ashby
    January 29, 2009

    That the human drive/desire for sexual intimacy is just about the most powerful thing we have, able to overturn decades of cruel, sadistic, brainwashing and able to stimulate the mind to extremely creative ex post facto rationalizing of the satisfaction, however partial, deviant, twisted, or strange, of that drive.

    You are so right Hairhead, have you encountered the post and even pre facto reasoning by which a celibate Catholic priest decides that sex with young boys is not sex so they are not violating their vows of chastity? You see the bible simply says that sex is between a man and a woman and homosexuality is between two men, so . . . And that’s just for the ones who didn’t start out as paedophiles anyway.

  126. #126 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    The fund for removing Walton’s poker died from lack of ‘backing’….

    This was my choice of the professional to hire to do the job -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT_BxSuSVVU

  127. #127 ggab
    January 29, 2009

    Walton
    About the prostate massage.
    It almost doesn’t matter whether or not you find the prostate…
    As long as the search is vigorous.

  128. #128 Janine, Leftist Bozo
    January 29, 2009

    Meyhempix, here ya go.

    Gotta do my thing

    Aah-ah (in the back room)

    Aah-ah

    Gotta do my thing (in the back room)

    In the back room (in the back room)

  129. #129 eddie
    January 29, 2009

    Re E. V. @121;

    That’s not a beard, it’s encrusted …ew!

  130. #130 mayhempix
    January 29, 2009

    OK Janine…
    but don’t forget the #1 Christian teen love sing.

    Moondance

    Well, its a marvelous night for a moondance
    With the star down below in your eye
    A fantabulous night to make romance
    ‘tween the cheeks of pink virgin thigh
    And the pants to my knees they are falling
    To the sound of my zipper below
    And Im trying to please to the calling
    Of your fart-strings that play soft and low
    And all the tight magic seems to whimper and push
    And all the pink mooning seems to shine in your blush

    Chorus:
    Can I just have one a more moondance with you, my love
    Can I just make some more romance with a-you, my love

  131. #131 Sven DiMilo
    January 29, 2009

    “‘tween cheeks of…thigh”?
    Sounds like Dr. Strange: “By the Cheeks of Thyghe: Begone!”

  132. #132 gramomster
    January 29, 2009

    I think everyone should go visit the XXX Church website. In their Projects area there is something called Operation Save the Kittens… apparently, everytime you masturbate, gawd kills a kitten. So young folks can make cute little ‘accountability e-mail groups’ to monitor their own and others’ masturbatory practices. Suggested e-mail subject lines include, Killed any Kitties this week? OSTK, How are the Kittens…

    *gag*

    Because, you know, gawd said “…sex is for a man and his wife, not a man and his girlfriend or a man or woman and his or her self.”

    Sheesh… WTF

  133. #133 Redhead
    January 29, 2009

    Congratulations, barebacking is now upgraded to saddlebacking! How interesting that those anti-gay bigots are promoting gay-sex so that you can be a vaginal virgin as a girl. Question, is the boy also a virgin if he inserted his dick only anally?

  134. #134 Menyambal
    January 29, 2009

    Yeah, I remember when the Righteous Republicans were all riled up about Bill Clinton saying that he “did not have sex.” I was living in a town where the girls claimed to still be virgins well past the Bill-and-Monica level. Those girls, their boyfriends, friends and families all hated Bill Clinton.

  135. #135 Rey Fox
    January 29, 2009

    “Perhaps he needs saddlebacked. Is the fundraiser to get him laid still ongoing?”

    Yes. Direct all funds and willing partners to reyfox@rey.fox

  136. #136 The Petey
    January 29, 2009

    Felching – the act of inserting fluids into a colon and than sucking it back out.

    Phelpsing – The Act of sucking shit

  137. #137 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Rey Fox:
    Thanks. Now I have to poke out my mind’s eye… while retching.

  138. #138 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Ewwww! Petey!! You’re worse than that slut Emmet. Ewww.

  139. #139 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Rey:
    Oops, I was so ooged out I only caught your name, when it was THE PETEY all along. Sorry Rey. Bad Petey! Bad Petey!

  140. #140 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Petey, you deserve a good spanking.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_o_zfQcdgQ

  141. #141 Wowbagger
    January 29, 2009

    If anyone hasn’t seen the film Josie and the Pussycats, here’s a rather funny song alluding to the topic…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwykvrwvWW4

  142. #142 JeffreyD
    January 29, 2009

    Oh come on folks. For once I think Walton was trying to wry and funny with his comment. You know, like, “this is a disgusting thing you are doing to my body…I will give you twenty minutes to quit”.

    Now, who can give me the definition for saddle bagging?

    Ciao y’all

  143. #143 The Petey
    January 29, 2009

    I only mentioned ?felching? to set linguistic precedence and show that the definition for ?Phelpsing? is appropriate.

    The fact that it?s grossing people out is just a fringe benefit and providing me with a lot of amusement.

  144. #144 Sven DiMilo
    January 29, 2009

    wanna come up to my stall and see my pommel?

  145. #145 'Tis Himself
    January 29, 2009

    Now, who can give me the definition for saddle bagging?

    It’s similar to wolfbagging only involving a live gerbil.

  146. #146 JeffreyD
    January 29, 2009

    ‘Tis Himself, not the definition of which I was thinking. I have to go now and try to figure out how to gouge out my mind’s eye. :)

    Ciao

  147. #147 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Pommel no, horn yes.

  148. #148 Patricia, OM
    January 29, 2009

    Thanks Petey. Once you boys start being icky you just have to one up each other.

    Tis Himself – Ewww!

  149. #149 Diane G
    January 29, 2009

    Posted by: MissPrism | January 29, 2009 8:06 AM

    If you’ve been saddlebacking before you get napolied, are you allowed an abortion?

    Which is a good excuse to post this site–oldie but goodie:
    http://southdakotamottocontest.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

  150. #150 Sanity Jane
    January 29, 2009

    Way to ruin a perfectly good song, mayhempix.

  151. #151 Watchman
    January 29, 2009

    Bill D:

    I’ve always thought that if the Brownian motion of life had thrown her together with a man who loved her and wanted to share her life in the way her current partner does, she’d have been just as happy with that.

    Perhaps. Sexuality and sexual orientation do appear to have some plasticity.

  152. #152 Ted Dahlberg
    January 29, 2009
    Posted by: ‘Tis Himself

    Now, who can give me the definition for saddle bagging?

    It’s similar to wolfbagging only involving a live gerbil.

    A gerbil, you say? I’ll take any excuse to reference The Boys. And anyone enjoying this thread will likely enjoy that comic. Oh, and link NSFW.

  153. #153 clinteas
    January 29, 2009

    *Note to self*:

    Need to date more christian girls….

    Ahhh,Pharyngula,my primary source of weird facts of life ! “Felching” and “Shrimping”,who would have known..:-)

  154. #154 E.V.
    January 29, 2009

    Bottom line: Rick Warren is the butt of these jokes.

    Start throwing those shoes now, Daddy needs a new pair.

  155. #155 Ragutis
    January 29, 2009

    Posted by: ‘Tis Himself Author Profile Page | January 29, 2009 5:27 PM

    Now, who can give me the definition for saddle bagging?

    It’s similar to wolfbagging only involving a live gerbil.

    Pardon my naiveté, but… Which end does the gerbil go in?

    Posted by: Patricia, OM | January 29, 2009 5:45 PM

    Once you boys start being icky you just have to one up each other.

    Who? Us? *whistles nonchalantly*

    Anyone else find it amusing that when I went to an online dictionary to double-check my spelling of “naiveté”, there were a bunch of hair restoration and exercise-free rapid weightloss sponsor ads?

  156. #156 Wowbagger
    January 29, 2009

    Ahhh,Pharyngula,my primary source of weird facts of life ! “Felching” and “Shrimping”,who would have known..:-)

    They didn’t teach you about that at Hollywood Upstairs Medical College?

  157. #157 Albert Nonymouse
    January 29, 2009

    Ah yes, “Saddlebacking.” Otherwise known as “the poophole loophole.”

    I must say that I’ve spent some considerable and pleasurable time in the company of various Xian women and experience has shown that they are a singularly frisky lot. They certainly can put the “fundament” in fundamental. I suspect that this may in part be due to the fact that they can obtain a kind of “forgiveness” that is foreclosed to us heathens. Indeed, fundamentalist preachers obviously trade on the fact that their congregations are primarily composed of “weak and sinful” people.

  158. #158 Doug the Primate
    January 29, 2009

    Anal sex, as a means of avoiding “deflowering”, was common in the late 1970s. Hypocrisy is nothing new.

    DR

  159. #159 sea creature
    January 29, 2009

    On a sadder note, I recently reconnected with some high school friends who have high school age children now, in Kentucky, in abstinence only school districts. They lamented to me the tremendous pressure on their daughters to perform oral sex on boys, since “you won’t lose your virginity anyway.” There is still no real valuation of what girls want, just the pressure to satisfy first God, then boys. And certainly this is not healthy for the boys either.

  160. #160 Colonel Molerat
    January 30, 2009

    RE: Felching
    Felching is also the name given to professionally putting thatched roofs on houses, I believe. I have heard that one of the UK societies representing these professionals produces bumper stickers that say:
    “I’d rather be felching”

  161. #161 Bill Dauphin
    January 30, 2009
    I’ve always thought that if the Brownian motion of life had thrown her together with a man….

    Perhaps. Sexuality and sexual orientation do appear to have some plasticity.

    After seeing my earlier words quoted, I want to clarify something: I was not suggesting the “Schrodinger’s Cat” sexuality I described applies to everyone, or even very many people. I’m not a gay-denialist nor (as some seem to think Savage is) a bi-denialist; I just think there may be some (probably small number of) people for whom the yearning for emotional intimacy trumps the physical details of gender and sex, without regard to what their “tastes” may have originally been.

    And then what to make of someone like Anne Heche, who seems to have dated only men before her famous relationship with Ellen Degeneres and married a man immediately after splitting from Ellen? She has said she doesn’t call herself straight, but what would you call her? Does a single same-sex relationship in a lifetime of opposite-sex couplings make one “bisexual”? And while Heche’s marriage has ended, does entering into an ostensibly permanent, exclusive relationship with a single person in some sense make the label “bisexual” moot?

    Of course, the logical implication of all this is that labels like gay, straight, bi, etc., are all bullshit… and in a philosophical sense, I think that’s true. But humans seem to have a strong impulse for taxonomy, and labels can be socially useful, as long as we’re careful not to use them to justify bigotry.

    BTW, since this thread is about pastors and sexuality, did anyone see Ted Haggard (and his family) on Oprah Wednesday? I don’t usually watch that show, but was home from work a bit earlier than usual and stumbled across it. FSM only knows what label applies to Haggard; he’s as weird as snakes’ shoes!

  162. #162 Stephen Wells
    January 30, 2009

    No, thatching roofs is called thatching, performed by thatchers. Do not attempt to visit the UK until you have carefully verified anything else you may have been told.

  163. #163 Angela
    January 30, 2009

    Sea creature, I am given to understand that the “surge in oral sex” with teenagers is mostly girls performing it on guys, which sounds more like servicing than a mutual sexual experience (I’m referring to the unidirection here, not the act itself). I imagine “saddlebacking” accomplishes much the same purpose, at least for teenagers. I find that a little sad.

  164. #164 Sven DiMilo
    January 30, 2009

    Sexuality and sexual orientation do appear to have some plasticity.

    Understatement of the young century.
    Exhibit 1: sheep.
    Exhibit 2: shoes.
    Exhibit 3: two wetsuits and a dildo.
    And the list goes on!

  165. #165 KnockGoats
    January 30, 2009

    No, thatching roofs is called thatching, performed by thatchers. Do not attempt to visit the UK until you have carefully verified anything else you may have been told. – Stephen Wells

    There’s a whole British subgenre of “misleading advice for foreigners” – perhaps the misdefinition of felching was an example? My favourites are “Try the famous echo in the British Museum reading room”, and “When entering a railway carriage, it is customary to shake hands with all the other passengers before sitting down”.

  166. #166 Brian X
    January 30, 2009

    Bill Dauphin:

    As someone who identifies as “uselessly bisexual” (long story, but it puts me on the skittish side of “heteroflexible”), re: Anne Heche, why the hell not? After all, how do you know her and her husband don’t share porn or something like that?

    In the case of Ted Haggard, I’m coming down on the side of “bisexual, non-monogamous, and in horrible denial about it”. If he had a less moralistic and restrictive world view, he and his wife could have had an awesomely kinky marriage, but he had to go off and become a homophobe. Major loss for both of them, but even more so for all the people Haggard so hypocritically preached at.

  167. #167 Tulse
    January 30, 2009

    In the case of Ted Haggard, I’m coming down on the side of “bisexual, non-monogamous, and in horrible denial about it”.

    Given Haggard’s behaviour, my guess is more “formerly closeted gay” than “bisexual”.

  168. #168 Bill Dauphin
    January 30, 2009

    Brian X:

    As someone who identifies as “uselessly bisexual” (long story, but it puts me on the skittish side of “heteroflexible”),

    I like “heteroflexible”! Now that seems like a useful and evocative label.

    re: Anne Heche, why the hell not? After all, how do you know her and her husband don’t share porn or something like that?

    Interesting point. For all I know, Heche may be actively bisexual (i.e., she may have had girlfriends or at least female play partners all along, even while she’s been in relationships with men), but let’s imagine she hasn’t touched a woman since Ellen, and has no plans to ever again… but what if she even so enjoys erotic images of women? Does that make her bisexual? Imagine someone who loves looking at BDSM porn but has no plans to ever live out any of those scenarios: Would you call that person “kinky”?

    More generally, I’m pondering what part of the Venn diagram that includes our sexual interests and our sexual behavior we’re drawing on when we give ourselves sexually identifying labels?

    As I said before, there’s a certain extent to which all such labels are bogus… but as long as we’re going to use them, it’s interesting (to me, at least) to think about what, precisely, they’re intended to mean.

    Re Haggard, I agree with your take. Apparently he no longer believes his erotic feelings for men are literally “demonic,” which I guess is a step in the right direction, but he still views them as something to struggle against, and on which he should not act. If he could just get over that moralistic BS, he and his wife (and their playmates) could potentially have a really good time. A bonus of that would be that his church would chuck him out (again), and he might perhaps be able to live in the Reality-Based Community™. As it is, though, he’s so internally conflicted that I’m afraid he’s a mental breakdown waiting to happen.

  169. #169 Bill Dauphin
    January 30, 2009

    Tulse:

    Given Haggard’s behaviour, my guess is more “formerly closeted gay” than “bisexual”.

    So you didn’t hear — or maybe just didn’t believe — his wife’s comments about what a hot sex life they had (have?)?

  170. #170 Brian X
    January 30, 2009

    let’s imagine she hasn’t touched a woman since Ellen, and has no plans to ever again… but what if she even so enjoys erotic images of women? Does that make her bisexual? Imagine someone who loves looking at BDSM porn but has no plans to ever live out any of those scenarios: Would you call that person “kinky”?

    Without evidence of someone of that persuasion acting on such a thing, you can never really know for sure, but I would lean towards “yes” in such cases. After all, there have certainly been cases throughout history of gay people who have never had sex with someone of the same sex, but that wouldn’t make them any less gay.

    I like “heteroflexible”! Now that seems like a useful and evocative label.

    Yes. Yes it is. I didn’t invent it, mind, but every straight guy who’s ever gone to another guy for a blow job — or, for that matter, every straight woman who’s ever had a fling with another woman — and still overall prefers the opposite sex can attest to the usefulness of the term. It’s just a reflection of the fact that many people are at least somewhat bi, but very few symmetrically so. (A friend of mine used to have a homoflexible roommate — she identified as lesbian but didn’t mind having sex with a guy occasionally.)

  171. #171 Carlie
    January 30, 2009

    I’ve always thought that most people are at least somewhat bi, within a normal distribution having completely straight on one end and completely homosexual on the other. This is also my pet theory on why so many evangelicals insist that being gay is a choice; if they are attracted to both men and women and made the conscious choice to ignore the same-sex attraction, they probably think this is true for everyone else too.

  172. #172 Graham
    February 1, 2009

    @Jared Lessl #46.

    It’s probably because of csrster’s reference to Archilocus that I have always known it as doing it “Greek fashion”.

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