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Category: Kooks
Posted on: January 6, 2009 11:24 AM, by PZ Myers
Did you know the Catholic church was established by Satan? You would if you read Chick comics. We also get the communion ritual explained for us.
You know what will happen if he doesn't. He will burn in hell for all eternity!
I do rather like the idea of an itty-bitty Jesus taking a dive off a cloud to land in a cracker, though. Wham!
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Comments
Posted by: DiscoveredJoys | January 6, 2009 11:28 AM
That looks just like a "Jesus Burger". Mmmm!
Posted by: Brian | January 6, 2009 11:29 AM
And oddly enough I feel obliged to say that I agree with Jack Chick on his first point: This is a belief in magic.
And yes, I'm both aware that I'm the 1,000,001 person to say this, and that people like Jack Chick believe in much other magic.
Brian
Posted by: Zeno | January 6, 2009 11:32 AM
Father "O'Tool". Ha! The understated dry wit must be the reason that Chick Comics are such effective evangelization tools for attracting converts.
As for communion wafers, let's not forget what they actually say during mass (while the altar boys try not to smirk): "Taste and see the goodness of the Lord."
Posted by: Sigmund | January 6, 2009 11:34 AM
Homunculus Jesus?
Posted by: Feynmaniac | January 6, 2009 11:34 AM
Eugenie Scott pointed out that how strange it was that creationist cartoons contain footnotes.
Posted by: the pro from dover | January 6, 2009 11:36 AM
Pointless religion wars (that do not actually result in the killing of people) should be beneath the dignity of Pharyngula. The retail version of evolution (as faulty as it is); however is really cool. TPFD.
Posted by: Denis Loubet | January 6, 2009 11:39 AM
You know, I couldn't have mocked the whole transubstantiation thing better than that "Wham!" panel.
It takes a Christian to be REALLY ugly towards someone else's religion.
Posted by: Jello | January 6, 2009 11:40 AM
I was an altar server (they let girls do it now too) and I always smirked a little whenever they asked Jesus to "come unto the people". ;) Of course I was fifteen at the time so that's pretty much all I ever thought about.
Posted by: Steve_C | January 6, 2009 11:42 AM
And the judges award Jesus a 9.6 for his dive! They deducted points for his feet being apart and his arms were not at right angles to his torso. But the degree of difficulty was astounding!
Posted by: Blake Stacey | January 6, 2009 11:42 AM
"TPFD"?
Time-Phased Force Deployment? Treatment Process Flow Diagram? Twin Peaks Fire Department? Thanks Phor Finding Dat?
Posted by: The Petey | January 6, 2009 11:44 AM
don't be silly
if the boy doesn't believe
the priest just rams some sacrement up his butt until he does.
Posted by: Jello | January 6, 2009 11:44 AM
Also, "Taste and see the goodness of the Lord." alwasys sounded like a jingle for a coffee brand.
Posted by: Moggie | January 6, 2009 11:44 AM
Wait. Every time a priest jebifies a cracker, it takes "as much power as the creation of the world"? How many watts is that, and where does it come from? And if priests have ready access to such a huge source of free energy, why are they wasting it on bread products rather than solving the world's energy problems?
Posted by: Sastra | January 6, 2009 11:45 AM
When confronted by such unflattering and graphic descriptions, Catholics usually deny that their beliefs are anything like what's being described. But when you get down to specifics there really isn't that much difference between what is being said about the religion, and what the religion says itself, when it comes to the supernatural beliefs. The big difference seems to be one of tone (respectful vs. mocking), and vagueness (enough to seek refuge behind metaphor, symbolism, and the numinous, if needed.)
There's also the matter of interpretation. To Catholics, the priest is not commanding Jesus: he is doing what Jesus wants him to do. Since there is no actual fact of the matter to investigate, one interpretation makes as much sense as the other. Chick is only wrong in that Catholics themselves don't perceive their ritual as showing that they have authority over God. It's supposed to be about humility and obedience. Same as Chick's religion. It's always about humility and obedience, even when you're kicking ass.
Posted by: Sami | January 6, 2009 11:46 AM
Jack Chick is a deranged and paranoid man - as a Christian who also plays Dungeons and Dragons, I feel highly qualified to vouch for this to persons at all points on the theological spectrum - but he does have a point. The Catholic communion ritual is just weird.
Posted by: J | January 6, 2009 11:49 AM
Yeah, I agree with several others here: This is *weird*. And not the normal Jack Chick Weirdness . . . we get to watch a fundamentalist Christian run out of the front door of the Atheist Pub . . . then a moment later burst right back in through the back door (*no* pun intended) exclaiming, "Howdy everyone: Drinks are on me tonight!"
Posted by: Alyson | January 6, 2009 11:51 AM
The most bizarre aspect of Chick Tracts is that they're dead serious. This shit is so funny, if it were coming from our side as a parody of theistic religion, it wouldn't look any different. Keep it coming, Jack!
Posted by: Jake | January 6, 2009 11:53 AM
Jack Chick really likes illustrating perspiration on people's faces.
I don't know whether I was typical, but I did the steps in a little different order than Jack Chick has them. I did 4: Confession (Reconciliation), then 3: Communion (Eucharist), then 2: Confirmation.
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 6, 2009 11:53 AM
Gee, you're no fun. It's the pointless, harmless religious wars that actually have some humor to them.
Heck, if it were up to me*, I'd have everyone go back to personalized, strict taboos for their sheer surreal nature. "Oh, I'm sorry, if I walk through that mall I have to step alternately on the black and white tiles, and I can't go past the fountain without a nut and bolt assembly to toss in, or the marsh god will afflict me with purple freckles on my ears".
*i.e., if I were a god
Posted by: Glen Davidson | January 6, 2009 11:54 AM
Now if Chick's cartoons were web cartoons, I'd vote them the funniest.
He manages a dry humor that never wavers from its pretense at being deadly serious.
On the other hand, you know that some of these people were silently applauding PZ during the cracker incident, not doing so publicly because they're on the side of theists wherever atheists are involved. Had some ranting evangelical done the same thing, a number of religionists would have cheered.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: Russell | January 6, 2009 11:55 AM
What I find weird is that religious sects can laugh at the oddities in other sects, while taking their own rites so seriously. The protestant believes that God sacrifices himself, in the guise of his son, to himself, to save us from himself. Now that makes perfect sense. But to say a bit of that ritual sacrifices is magically enacted in each mass -- well, that's just weird. Both the Catholic and the protestant laugh at the Mormon's magical underwear. None of them can fathom how the Muslim believes the Quran is the literal word of God, though all believe they have his words in the anonymous writings of the gospels.
Religion is weird. And the weirdest thing about it is that those who believe the weirdest things have utterly no sympathy with those who believe a slightly different set of weird things.
Posted by: Tualha | January 6, 2009 11:57 AM
Sure is funny, innit, that the virtuous Protestant faiths could have branched off from the defiled, decadent, Satan-founded Catholic church. Or do they deny that it happened that way? This tract just glosses over it, doesn't even mention where the Protestant faiths came from.
Facial-hair-guy strikes me as a perfect example of the fundie's favorite victims. If he's so freaking ignorant that he doesn't know who the Pope is, he'll believe anything the fundies tell him. How would he know it's nonsense? What could he judge it against?
Posted by: Brain Hertz | January 6, 2009 11:58 AM
Shorter Jack Chick:
Look how strange peoples' belief in magic rituals looks when you stand back and look at it! Except for our magic rituals.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | January 6, 2009 12:06 PM
I think I have a new catchphrase.
"It's the Pope, Jimmy! THE POPE!"
Posted by: The Science Pundit | January 6, 2009 12:06 PM
I'll have to second Jake (#18). For all his research and footnotes, Chick couldn't even get the order of the sacraments right. But should I be surprised that he's sloppy?
Posted by: nuts | January 6, 2009 12:07 PM
It's so cute when crazy people make fun of other crazy people's delusions :3
Posted by: Graham Douglas | January 6, 2009 12:11 PM
Has anyone told Bill O'Donahue about this?
Posted by: Galbinus_Caeli | January 6, 2009 12:12 PM
So Mr. Christ had to die to pay for the sins of the world and came back three days later, it should be possible to figure out how much death is required for each person.
Three days of death is 259,200 seconds of death. There were around 300,000,000 people alive at the time of this supposed payment. So apparently it costs a bit under a thousandth of second of death to pay for the sins of one person.
Posted by: JThompson | January 6, 2009 12:14 PM
@Sami: No weirder than the stuff other versions of the religion do.
Virtually all the Christian religions baptize.
You're told being dunked in a pool of water washes your sin off.
What if someone really bad got dunked before me? Could some of his sin stick to me on the way out? Would all my sin be washed off? What's the saturation point of sin in water? How many sins per gallon before sin no longer dissolves? Do they filter the water or are they just dumping raw sin into the ground water? Can we recycle the removed sin into something useful? Maybe a car that runs on sin? Better yet, can I have a girlfriend that runs on it?
There's also footwashing, snake handling, speaking in tongues, and faith healing to consider.
All religions have some element of spooky in them. Otherwise people don't take them seriously.
Rock on with the D&D though. ;)
RE the cartoon: The only thing that would convince me there was a god would be the simultaneous smiting of Jack Chick, Pat Robertson, and Fred Phelps. And I don't mean going gently into death's embrace. I mean fucking smiting them. Preferably at least one in a funny way. Like the septic tank falling off an airplane and crushing one just as he starts yelling about what god wants. With cameras recording his expression.
Posted by: nuts | January 6, 2009 12:15 PM
#28: remember that Jesus paid for the sins of every human ever, which up to date should be roughly 10 billion people (and since the Rapture will happen ANY DAY NOW...)
Posted by: Metro | January 6, 2009 12:17 PM
Chick is a dishonest sonofabitch. Even when I was still Catholic I knew that.
Witness his take on the "IHS" stamped on many communion hosts. Chick claims that it stands for "Isis, Horus, and Set." If he did any reading at all, he'd know it stands for "Iesus Hominem Salvatorum" ("Jesus, Saviour of Mankind").
So he's either completely mentally retarded AND dishonest, or completely dishonest AND mentally retarded.
Don't goddists go to hell for telling lies?
Jack Chick's in for a nasty surprise, eh?
*!* Somebody so badly needs to draw a Chick tract dedicated to that theme.
Posted by: Brian Knoblock | January 6, 2009 12:24 PM
Hmmm. Jesus goes into the cracker with a "wham?" I was always guessing it was more of a "splurt."
Posted by: The Petey | January 6, 2009 12:26 PM
WHAM!!!!
Jheez-it.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | January 6, 2009 12:27 PM
I really have to wonder just how many Chick tracts are currently in the hands of fundies who take him seriously, as opposed to the number in the hands of skeptics and moderate theists, who collect them for the sheer campy humour value. I've got half-a-dozen stashed in my Crackpots file (but since the Web, I no longer need to collect dead-tree versions).
Oh, and @#27: Damn you, for beating me to it ;-).
Posted by: aratina | January 6, 2009 12:27 PM
So is Jack Chick now a militant atheist to the CADC? Where's Donohue? This is *real* Catholic bashing.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | January 6, 2009 12:28 PM
Perhaps it is worth noting that, although some dispute the claim, "hocus-pocus" is thought be many to come from "hoc est corpus meum" (I don't know if "enim" matters or not). Even if that is not the "true etymology," people came to associate the two.
The fact that priestly words really are just "hocus-pocus" occurred to very religious people, one reason for the Protestant Reformation.
On the other hand, words in the vernacular directed to an unobservable, undetectable, and ineffective sky-god seemed just as ridiculous to people a bit more consistent in their thinking than Jack Chick is. "Hocus pocus" is as likely to work as any conjurations that Chick uses.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: - | January 6, 2009 12:30 PM
I watch a fair bit of wacky Christian preachers for entertainment (Jack Van Impe being a favorite--see YouTube), but only now and then do I get hit with this fleeting but strong sense of how astounding it is that people believe this stuff (I think the other times I am sort of inured to it). I got that sense again reading the whole comic.
Posted by: ThirtyFiveUp | January 6, 2009 12:30 PM
Metro #31
Please, please is that Poe?
Posted by: Brownian, OM | January 6, 2009 12:32 PM
Yes, it's really best to wait until someone dies before intervening against stupidity.
Posted by: PlaydoPlato | January 6, 2009 12:33 PM
1. "Anthony will eat his god."
2. "As for communion wafers, let's not forget what they actually say during mass (while the altar boys try not to smirk): "Taste and see the goodness of the Lord."
3. "I was an altar server (they let girls do it now too) and I always smirked a little whenever they asked Jesus to "come unto the people".
See, even as a kid, I always thought all the jebus-love talk sounded, well, kinda gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not how I roll.
Posted by: Watchman | January 6, 2009 12:33 PM
OT, but grimly satisfying.
HuffPo: Coulter Cancelled.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | January 6, 2009 12:36 PM
If someone does, I'll bring the popcorn.
Posted by: Watchman | January 6, 2009 12:39 PM
Hell. I'd love to see a slap-fight between Chick and O'Donahue.
Posted by: WRMartin | January 6, 2009 12:39 PM
JThompson @29:
You wish.I do too! ;)
Re: the smiting (smoting?). I second that wish too. With a triple strike on each just for good measure and to make it absolutely clear it wasn't an accident. Cameras rolling live, of course. At the moment when the Bible is held aloft and they spout something related to knowing what God wants then smote, Smote, SMOTE in huge lightning bolts from above. The first smote gets a surpised expression of dread and a little smoke off their head, second Smote causes flames to erupt from their torso, and that final oh so juicy SMOTE splatters their charred remains against the walls and ceiling. No collateral damage and clean up only requiring a little spray cleanser and a few rags.
Hey, a guy can dream. And if it does happen I'll need to get up early on Sundays and fulfill a little side wager I made a while back. I think I'll come to enjoy the smell of fresh smote in the morning.
Posted by: Patricia, OM | January 6, 2009 12:40 PM
Naughty Brownian, not just one, millions!
Posted by: PlaydoPlato | January 6, 2009 12:43 PM
I know what you mean. Ever since I came out of the choir, I really get a kick out of listening to radio-evangelists. It's so much more entertaining when you don't take any of it seriously. But I do still wonder how I could have ever believed any of it.
Posted by: Lilian Nattel | January 6, 2009 12:44 PM
All that energy? So you mean that's the real reason for global warming??
Posted by: gribley | January 6, 2009 12:45 PM
PZ, I think you switched points of view halfway through the post. "You know what will happen if he doesn't. He will burn in hell for all eternity! -- that's the Catholic view, not the Chick view.
It's baffling. If I read it right, Chick is saying that the poor kid should not believe such a ridiculous piece of sacrilege. On the other hand, the *priest* certainly thinks the kid had better believe. So it can go either way. Chick says by implication, "You know what will happen if he does [believe]: He will burn in hell for all eternity!, while the Church says, "You know what will happen if he doesn't: He will burn in hell for all eternity!
That's the clearest example I've ever seen of "damned if you do, damned if you don't." It's no wonder us poor Catholic boys get so messed up.
Posted by: Matt Heath | January 6, 2009 12:50 PM
So he's either completely mentally retarded AND dishonest, or completely dishonest AND mentally retarded.You forget that Chick, in addition to his other flaws, is a conspiracy nut. He believes that the world is being run by a conspiracy based in the Vatican (it's been in early comics and it's again in this one). He thinks the Vatican (on the orders of Satan) invented Islam and Communism and runs world finance. He'll have read what IHS really stands for but he probably honestly thought that all the books (except the few crazy ones that said what he wanted to believe) were written by people in on the conspiracy.I don't think that it is mostly about stupidity or dishonesty. I think he is just plain insane, suffering from some recognised mental illness involving paranoid delusions.
Posted by: cactusren | January 6, 2009 12:53 PM
@33--dammit, you beat me to it. First thing I thought of when I saw the picture of Jesus diving into a cracker was that Cheezit commercial.
Posted by: Patricia, OM | January 6, 2009 12:57 PM
#42 - Get the popcorn ready to go. The Catholic League didn't know about the new cartoon.
The phone number on their website is genuine, and the staff is very polite. ;o)
Posted by: Matt Heath | January 6, 2009 12:58 PM
Evangelicals spew anti-catholic hate all the time - the real stuff: not "catholicism is stupid" but "catholics are monsters" - and dicks like him don't say a word. They know they need to keep there right-wing allies happy. Groups like the catholic league are not primarily pro-catholic; they are about what they are anti-; anti-secular, anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-science...Posted by: Dr. Pablito | January 6, 2009 1:00 PM
Mr. Chick is a classic John Birch society anti-Catholic, anti-commie. And zealotry of all kinds wraps around to meet in the middle, doesn't it? Weird that way. And I'm compelled to recommend an out-of-print book which long ago explored the mindset of religiously inclined people: "Magic and religion: their psychological nature, origin, and function," by George B. Vetter.
Posted by: The Petey | January 6, 2009 1:01 PM
Jheez-it of Nabisco
Posted by: Raven | January 6, 2009 1:03 PM
@34:
Well, there is a guy who goes to the Alternative Press Expo (APE) in San Francisco and set up a booth to sell Chick Tracts.
Also, most RPG players have at least heard of his anti-D&D screed. ("Black Leaf! No!") On his website he addresses questions people have asked him, and he resolutely contends that D&D is dangerous because black magic is real, and goes on to say that before he became a fundie he actually practiced it. I already knew it wasn't much to do with reality because it shows a D&D group that's almost entirely composed of attractive women.
Posted by: Cruithne | January 6, 2009 1:05 PM
Pointless religion wars (that do not actually result in the killing of people) should be beneath the dignity of Pharyngula.
As one of a few regular Pharyngulites from Northern Ireland, I have to tell you that some people do take this shit seriously enough to kill others over it.
Besides, dignity is overrated, I'd rather show my arse to the lot of them and use one of Chick's tracts to wipe it.
Posted by: Ranson | January 6, 2009 1:07 PM
@ Sami #15
Hey, you wouldn't be the same "Sami" from Side Quest, wouldya?
Posted by: phein | January 6, 2009 1:07 PM
With regards to #28, the calculus of sacrifice brings out any number of oddities.
For instance, why don't Christians worship Mrs. Sullivan? She sacrificed FIVE sons just to save us from the Nazis. If eternal life had been on the line, I'm sure she'd have kicked in the daughter, too.
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 6, 2009 1:14 PM
I'd thought that was what heaven was supposed to look like.
Posted by: DuckPhup | January 6, 2009 1:15 PM
Ahhh... Purgatory. My brother wrote a song about that...
Purgatory
by LH
VERSE 1
I've consorted with women of dubious fame
The low-lifes and grifters all know me by name
I've drunk me some whiskey, and I've told me some lies
And for that, I apologize.
VERSE 1
But I'm not a bad fellow, I think you'd agree
I never have hurt anybody but me
I'm too seedy for heaven, but I'm too good for hell
So I guess Purgatory would suit me quite well
CHORUS 1
If the good Lord don't want you and the devil don't know you
If they're too high above you or too far below you
There's only one place that a poor boy can go to
It's old Purgatory for me.
VERSE 3
I'm too fat to fly and to stubborn to learn
I'm too tough to fry and I'm too wet to burn
I'm too old to change and too lazy to grow
If they're ready to take me, I'm ready to go.
CHORUS 2
If the good Lord don't want you and the devil don't need you
They got nowhere to put you and nothing to feed you
There's only one place that the good life can lead to
It's old purgatory for me
BRIDGE
Right there in the middle is the home of my dreams
I never have been one to go to extremes
I don't want no pitchfork and I don't want no wings
I just want to be like I am
VERSE 4
So when your ticket is punched and you pass on to glory
Stop by and see me in old purgatory
If the sun ain't too hot and the water is cool
I'll be havin' a daquiri, down at the pool
CHORUS 1
CHORUS 2
END
©2004 LH
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | January 6, 2009 1:17 PM
And that's exactly where Pascal's Wager utterly fails.
Posted by: Paul | January 6, 2009 1:18 PM
"What I find weird is that religious sects can laugh at the oddities in other sects, while taking their own rites so seriously."
It's also a great marketing tool. Fundamentalist Christians (Muslimsm, too) are always on the look out for the sect that "has it right," that is closest to the Bible or Koran, the most hardcore denomination if you will. When I was a Christian, I belonged to Armstrongism which not only defamed and ridiculed Catholicism, but all of Protestantism as well. We were taught that only we had favor in God's eye and all those not in our sect were all false Christians and would be punished for not following a lot of the old Testament Laws (I didn't work on Saturdays or eat pork for a very long time). It was heady stuff, thinking that you, a poor slob in your cheap suit with your big Bible, had more favor with God than the Pope. A lot of people found this to be very attractive. Of course, looking back, all of us shared common characteristics- paranoid, didn't trust the world around us, inferiority complex, ect.
Posted by: eddie | January 6, 2009 1:21 PM
Re WRM @44 -
write -> wrote
smite -> smote
[/pedantry] sorry.
This cartoon makes me suspect that crackers are mate of some white, pasty substance other than bread.
*boak*
Posted by: Jim A. | January 6, 2009 1:21 PM
#29 for the win:
Better yet, can I have a girlfriend that runs on it?
Posted by: Penguin_Factory | January 6, 2009 1:25 PM
Let's see, this is: anvilicous, stupid, preachy, sectarian, insane, virulently anti-catholic, features gross caricatures that remind me disturbingly of anti-semitic tracts from the 20th sentury, and, at least to me, just a wee bit anti-Irish, even if Chick didn't mean it that way (he hates everyone else, so why not?)
As someone who grew up catholic, I know from experience that very few priests are actually scary gangster-looking behemoths with chins that could crush icebergs. Nor are they all dicks. In fact, I think they're usually more all-right* that evangelicals like Chick.
* (Except for those ones. You know the ones I'm talking about. In fact, I'm surprised Chick wasn't all over that from the opening panel).
Posted by: Guy Incognito | January 6, 2009 1:26 PM
Forgive me if I missed it, but here we have a blog entry where PZ Myers kinda, sorta agrees with a Chick tract, and 60 comments later not a single troll has attempted to cite it as evidence that "the new atheism" is just another brand of fundamentalism? Wow, they must be slipping...
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | January 6, 2009 1:26 PM
Mmm, Jesus fertilizes a cracker. I'm so turned on now.
Posted by: Tom | January 6, 2009 1:30 PM
Please - what is with the use of the term "mentally retarded"?
http://www.r-word.org/
Posted by: culmastadm | January 6, 2009 1:36 PM
I didn't realize this was a religious tract. I thought it was a parody. I erad the beginning, laughed at the parody of Catholisism. Then he talked to another guy, and I thought it was going to be a parody of Evangelism. And, then, I realized what I was reading.
It would be great if this guy kept going from religion to religion getting these wildly differing stories about what god is.
Posted by: Quiet_Desperation | January 6, 2009 1:37 PM
You know, Goku from Dragonball Z rides around on a cloud, too. I'm just sayin.
Reference image: where did that wafer really come from?
http://www.rubberslug.com/user/c40d22e0dfbf4162b3940c14274faf16/409650-6254495-gokucloud1t.jpg
Posted by: mcow | January 6, 2009 1:37 PM
Does Chick not realize that Protestantism came into being after Catholicism? What does he think they were "protesting" against?
Posted by: raven | January 6, 2009 1:38 PM
That the RCC is the church of satan and the pope is the antichrist is a common fundie belief.
Michelle Bachmann's church, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutherans (WELS) says exactly that on their website.
I've always wondered what the Catholics in her district thought of having a wingnut anti-catholic bigot for a representative. Oddly enough, they didn't care enough to vote her out.
Mostly the catholics seem to ignore fundie hatred these days. After 400 years of warfare, they must have gotten tired of killing each other. The RCC doctrine is still that they are the only true church and Ratzinger said this again not too long ago.
Posted by: Tualha | January 6, 2009 1:40 PM
Obligatory quote:
"IT'S A FRACKIN' CRACKER!"
Posted by: Jason | January 6, 2009 1:41 PM
Good old Jack Chick. He never met a straw man that he didn't proceed to build into a towering giant and then also throw the first match.
Posted by: Dorkman | January 6, 2009 1:46 PM
My friends and I used to amuse ourselves reading Chick tracts. A number of them contradict each other.
For example, there's an entire tract about how trick or treating is Satanic. But then in a different tract, also set at Halloween, the good little Christian girls and boys are trick or treating as part of the incidental details; but since the tract is about something else, there's no apparent issue with it.
At the time we started to think that he was actually cashing in on the widest audience by telling them what they wanted to hear, and not what he actually believed. Since then I've come to realize that internal contradiction *is* the main feature of fundamentalist belief.
Posted by: Steverino | January 6, 2009 1:51 PM
I believe my 84 year old mother said it best..."That man is such an asshole!"
Posted by: rimpal | January 6, 2009 1:53 PM
Also note the demonization of not only Catholics, but also the Flannigans, O'Tools, and Eyetalian looking people! Now that is something Dr.Ignore may want to look into!
Posted by: Newfie | January 6, 2009 2:05 PM
Somebody go to communion, and when given the cracker, pull out a small tub of chip dip, and enjoy the cracker. Report back here with results and reactions.
Posted by: Richard Smith | January 6, 2009 2:07 PM
The kid in the last panel looks like the loser in a round of "Soggy Host." Last one to feel the glory eats the wafer...
Posted by: Cracker Jack | January 6, 2009 2:09 PM
Jack Chick: Single-handedly proving Poe's Law
Posted by: Isherwood | January 6, 2009 2:13 PM
Looking at that last frame reminded me why I enjoyed communion as a kid... the wafers were real bread and sweetened with honey at my church. It wasn't nearly as creepy as the cardboard everyone else uses.
Posted by: Randomfactor | January 6, 2009 2:16 PM
MSNBC Poll: should "In God We Trust" be removed from money?
The pious side is winning at present
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/
Posted by: Midnight Rambler | January 6, 2009 2:17 PM
The tone isn't the only thing he owes to them; don't forget that many of Chick's "bad guys" have heavy eyebrows, goatees, and bulging noses.Posted by: TNR | January 6, 2009 2:29 PM
I'm honestly disgusted by this (and I say this as a non catholic). The amount of bile heaped on people who have a specific spiritual faith is disgusting.
Is it your right to be a crass jerk spitting on people because they have different beliefs? sure the first is all about offensive speech. But the behavior of people here uses the letter of the law to dress up childish and mean spirited comments aimed at other human beings as courageous acts worthy of praise.
Posted by: CJColucci | January 6, 2009 2:30 PM
Since there is no actual fact of the matter to investigate, one interpretation makes as much sense as the other.
Amen, Sastra. When I read about the controversies that roiled the early Christian church, I find myself thinking the same thing. Even starting from the premise that Jesus was, in some sense, God or His authorized emissary, why wouldn't it have been sufficient answer to controversies over the eucharist to say: "The founder of our religion wants us to do this in memory of him, so we do it."? Why do we need to have an answer to unaswerable questions about transubstantiation or consubstantiation or real or virtual presence?
Posted by: NoAstronomer | January 6, 2009 2:32 PM
Hang on, doesn't this tract (along with all the others) violate the recent UN resolution on religious tolerance?
Posted by: llewelly | January 6, 2009 2:32 PM
I love Jack Chick. His favorite argument is sort of like a straw man ... except that it's made of nitrocellulose soaked in gasoline ...
Posted by: Randomfactor | January 6, 2009 2:35 PM
Wait. Every time a priest jebifies a cracker, it takes "as much power as the creation of the world"? How many watts is that, and where does it come from?
None--it's a shift of quantum state.
Posted by: speedwell | January 6, 2009 2:41 PM
Tom @ 68:
You're right. "Mentally retarded" refers to people whose minds, through no fault of their own, fail to develop properly. We should refer to Jack Chick and his ilk as "mentally self-castrated" instead.
Posted by: IBY | January 6, 2009 2:41 PM
I am an altar server (my parents made me), and I kind of smirk a little everytime the concecration thingy happens. Even though I don't understand much because the echoes, and they say it in Korean, it just feels silly that all of those people believe Jesus is actually on the crackers.
Posted by: nanahuatzin | January 6, 2009 2:41 PM
When i was a kid, i actually tought i was talking with god. I really believed it was an speciall moment. All the ceremony, the confession, etc contrived to make it a speciall moment. But soon i realized that people stayed the same. For most people it was an empty ceremony, done because their fathers have done it.
Later the sience books of G. Gamow, showed me there were much better explanations of the universe, and there were answers to things that my cathecism teacher could not give explain...
So i deciced that all that was the same kind of mithology that i have learned in grecorroman mithology. So it was intereseting to know... but not to be believed.
And speaking of mithology...
Tomorrow most catholic kids expected their presents, bring by the Magi. While i am an aheist, my daughters will receive their presents too, but mainly because i like to see the delight in their faces and it is a fun tradition...
Of course they know it is only a tradition, but I imagine that Chick would claim that they are islamic terrorists in disguise...
Posted by: DuckPhup | January 6, 2009 2:45 PM
Actually, it's a critique of gullibility, self-deception, self-delusion, willful ignorance, lies, hypocrisy, and toxic, drooling stupidity. It's hard to criticize those things 'nicely'.
However... we are duly grateful for the fact that 'religion'... especially the Abrahamic death-cults of desert monotheism... neatly wraps up all of those dubious 'qualities' into one neat and tidy little package... with a bow on top... where they can be criticized conveniently and efficiently.
Posted by: IBY | January 6, 2009 2:48 PM
@TNR
Suggesting the fact that Catholic faith doesn't make any sense, or in fact, any other faiths don't make sense, is a legitimate form of criticism.
Posted by: JP | January 6, 2009 2:54 PM
#43--good idea. i've been wondering lately if that's not the ultimate way we'll defeat theism. They all (the sects) hate each other so much, if we just kinda behind the scenes prodded them to fight each other (hey, so and so said yer church did xyz and is stupid), wouldn't they eventually blow themselves up?
Posted by: Metro | January 6, 2009 2:54 PM
@ThirtyFiveUp #38
No Poe. Dead serious. Chick hates Catholicism possibly more than he hates atheists. He's got a conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories, and the Holy Mother Church is right in the heart of it.
Here's a link to a Catholic website covering the Chick tracts addressing the subject. A sample:
The tracts themselves are listed on page four.Regarding the specific assault on the intellect I mentioned, that "IHS" on the Host stands for "Isis, Horus, and Set" ("Seb"--sez Chick, I got it wrong), scroll down about two-thirds of the way in part five, to the big panel reproduced addressing "Other Christs".
Catholicism is pretty nutso. But Chick is raving, foaming, eye-burning stupid-crazy served straight-no-chaser in a 44-Oz Big Gulp cup, and a dammned liar to boot.
Whoops--Matt Heath at 49 beat me to the conspiracy business ... Fast writer, slow reader I.
@Tom #68
My apologies if the r-word offends. Perhaps I should have stuck with "cretinous" for Chick.
Posted by: Interrobang | January 6, 2009 2:55 PM
The amount of bile heaped on people who have a specific spiritual faith is disgusting.
No, no, you've got us all wrong. We heap bile on people who have any sort of spiritual faith. It just happens to be Catholics' and fundamentalist Christians' turn in the bile barrel right now. Don't worry, we'll get around to Zoroastrians, Breatharians, and acolytes of "The Secret" eventually.
If you want us to respect religion, or some shit, you're in the wrong place and should probably leave now.
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | January 6, 2009 2:55 PM
waah waah christian bashing waah waah
Posted by: SteveM | January 6, 2009 2:55 PM
to paraphrase TNR: "sure the first amendment protects offensive speech, but that doesn't mean you should actually use it"
Posted by: Brownian, OM | January 6, 2009 3:01 PM
TNR, when those beliefs are dangerous, deluded, and threaten the well-being of others based on (and in fact praised for) an obvious lack of evidence, you can bet your non-Catholic bottom dollar that I'm going to spit on their beliefs whether that right is protected or not.
You're welcome to try to cure HIV/AIDS with your Kumbaya circle. But fuckers like the Pope and his cohort of genocidal pedophiles, Phelps and his hateful cronies, Jack Chick, Falwell, Haggard, Hovind, the Taliban, Scientology, Mormonism, and the rest of the bullshit will get no quarter from me.
It has nothing to do with 'different beliefs'. It has to do with the fact that they're murderously wrong about the world, and are more than happy to sacrifice others to prevent their beliefs from being challenged. And if you think a few 'childish insults' are just as bad or worse than the suffering these jerks cause, well fuck you too.
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 6, 2009 3:02 PM
TNR idiotically blathered:
I don't care what faith or lack thereof you possess. The "bile" here never goes so far as saying the religious should be killed, locked up, banished from the country, have their citizenship revoked, be disqualified from testifying/public office, or predict that they will (and should) suffer in eternal lakes of fire.
Maybe you should look at those who do have specific religious faiths before you start looking at atheists if you really want to see bile.
Posted by: Jadehawk | January 6, 2009 3:03 PM
Patricia, you're a wicked, wicked woman, and deserve an Order of the Tentacle Medal for it.Posted by: frog | January 6, 2009 3:03 PM
#22 Tualha Sure is funny, innit, that the virtuous Protestant faiths could have branched off from the defiled, decadent, Satan-founded Catholic church. Or do they deny that it happened that way?
As a matter of fact, some do -- actual historical evidence be damned. Many sects consider the "Catholic" period from 400 AD to 1600 as a kind of interregnum, where "True" Christianity was interrupted but continued secretly through the Holy Ghost, then re-erupted as Protestantism.
When you accept magic, anything is possible (including Masons building Penis fetishes in ancient Rome!)
Posted by: SeanJJordan | January 6, 2009 3:09 PM
Oddly enough, the eucharist is the way communion is SUPPOSED to be celebrated. It's the Protestants who took it and turned it into a symbolic ceremony instead of a consumption of the literal body and blood of Christ.
Weird, yes. But it's not a christian idea originally. It comes from an Egyptian mystery cult ceremony celebrating Osiris/Horus.
BTW, Did anyone else here know that the word "catholic" means "universal"?
Posted by: Metro | January 6, 2009 3:09 PM
@Interrobang:
Seriously? There are Breatharians left? You'da thunk they'd have starved to death by now.
Of course, after 1998 or so, Wiley Brooks decided on a revised form of Breatharianism that included Diet Coke and Quarter-Pounders, so he's probably living well off the fleecing of the flock.
Posted by: frog | January 6, 2009 3:14 PM
TNR: Is it your right to be a crass jerk spitting on people because they have different beliefs? sure the first is all about offensive speech. But the behavior of people here uses the letter of the law to dress up childish and mean spirited comments aimed at other human beings as courageous acts worthy of praise.
He's clearly advocating censorship -- that we are abusing "the letter of the law" against the "spirit of the law". The obvious response would then be to amend "the letter of the law" to put a stop to this abuse of a loophole.
Yes, TNR would use the police to put down defamation against religion --- of course the response to other view-points must be violence for the religionist (particularly the Christiano-Muslim variety).
Those people are all the same -- pathetic whiners who would use violence against their opponents.
TNR, your whining offends me. It is an abuse of freedom of speech. I hope you'll support me in getting free speech curtailed so I don't have to put up with it any longer.
Posted by: Leon | January 6, 2009 3:16 PM
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day Chick got something significantly right. But apart from the bit about Satan, this comic seems about spot-on!
You see Chick, we feel the same way about all of Christianity that you feel about all forms of it except your own. (Like he would have the capability to grasp that concept.)
Posted by: Tom | January 6, 2009 3:18 PM
speedwell @89:
Thanks! You hit the nail on the head. My son has Down syndrome and he may not be the smartest kid but he tries hard to learn and to understand. Jack Chick has no interest in learning. These people think they know everything they need to know. They are not mentally retarded. They have the ability to learn and to understand but they choose to let their biases stifle this ability. They don't want to learn. They want to wallow in their ignorance. And that is just sad.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield, OM | January 6, 2009 3:18 PM
Tom #68,
Well, "retarded" started out as being the "right" term, the alternatives at the time being "idiot", "imbecile", and "moron", which, in their turn, had replaced terminology like "cretin" and "feeble-minded".
When I was a kid, the accepted term for Down's Syndrome was "mongoloid", the term Down himself used, and kids used "mongo" as a term of abuse. Then society decided that was wrong, and that "Down's Syndrome" should replace "mongoloid", so kids started calling each other "Downers". I remember being told not to use "mentally handicapped", a previously acceptable term, and to use "special" instead. I remember "special" in turn being used in a derogatory way.
It seems to be a sad-but-true feature of language that it evolves like this: terminology is developed, stigmatised, used as an epithet, deplored, and then discarded by those who once accepted it as a descriptor for them. Nobody objects to "cretin" being used as an insult any more because it has long-since passed from being a descriptor of a level of intellectual disability to simply being an insult.
I think it's time for "retard" to go the same way. I doubt there is any realistic prospect of remediating "retard" any more than "imbecile", itself once a perfectly acceptable medical term.
Posted by: horrobin | January 6, 2009 3:20 PM
This is like Chick's claim that Muslims are actually worshipping a moon god when they pray to Allah. It's hard to understand if he thinks muslims and catholics are complacent in the occult, or are just unknowingly are following the secret schemes of the true masters of the world. Or maybe he thinks Isis and the moon god are real, vying against the big J. Pat Robertson once had a "special report" on environmentalists and their ties (according to his 'reporter', of course, deeply ingrained) to neo-paganism. At the end of the report, he shook his head and laughed incredulously, "These people actually worship Nature!" Ten minutes later, he was standing there with his eyes closed saying "There is a woman in Denver whose kidney stones are being dissolved by the power of the Lord! There's a man in Saskatchewan with painful bunions... "Posted by: The Science Pundit | January 6, 2009 3:21 PM
STOP FEEDING THE TNROLL! :-P
Posted by: Brownian, OM | January 6, 2009 3:26 PM
From Metro's link:
I'm impressed. Religious wackaloons with integrity? If they were Catholic, they'd have ordered the delivery boy and any witnesses hushed up, had a KFC secretly built in Brooks' basement, and denounced Ronald McDonald as the anti-Brooks just to throw everyone off the scent. Oh yeah, and they would've collaborated with the Nazis.
Posted by: MarkusR | January 6, 2009 3:29 PM
In the fervor of elections I had totally forgotten about certain protestant fervor against the catholic church.
Posted by: raven | January 6, 2009 3:34 PM
I'm not at all surprised at your clueless stupidity.
1. Jack Chick is a fundie xian who thinks catholics are the church of satan. We are just laughing at him.
2. Bile?? Mostly we just laugh at wingnut kooks.
3. Speaking of bile. Fundie xians are all about lies and violence. To make matters worse, they draw up lists of people to hate. The current one is gays, MDs, scientists, Moslems, mainline protestants, cathoics, and nonwhites. They also occasionally kill people on their lists.
I'll take some amusement or even bile over a bullet in the head any day.
Posted by: Ka | January 6, 2009 3:39 PM
Emmet Caulfield, OM # 108:
It seems to be a sad-but-true feature of language that it evolves like this: terminology is developed, stigmatised, used as an epithet, deplored, and then discarded by those who once accepted it as a descriptor for them.
aka the euphemism treadmill.
Posted by: Watchman | January 6, 2009 3:41 PM
Re: Emmett @ #108
Exactly. These things are moving targets. Any PC term, or more sensitive label, will eventually be coopted by the immature and insensitive.
My wife is in the mental health field, and regularly uses the abbreviation "MR" to denote mental retardation in a client. My sister, along with several of our friends are grade school teachers, some of whom are (or have been) in special ed. The point is, we're not exactly wallowing in ignorance and insensitivity. My son, however, is in 4th grade, and I recently overheard him and his friends using the terms "That's so SPED" to denigrate certain less-that-completely-brilliant statements or actions.
I don't know how widespread this slang is in his school, or nationally, but it may only be a matter of time before "sped" becomes the new "retarded". As for my son, I spoke to him about this usage, and reminded him that this slang was inconsiderate of special-needs students, that special needs didn't necessarily correlate with intelligence (and so what if it did?) and that he should remember that he himself, being the subject of an IEP, is a consumer of SPED services himself - as was his 17 year old brother, whose IQ is over 150 and whose SAT scores haven't been below 730.
The lesson here? It's obvious, I suppose: Human nature leads us to look for those to whom we can, rightly or not, feel superior.
Posted by: gingerbeard | January 6, 2009 3:46 PM
Posted by: The Science Pundit | January 6, 2009 3:21 PM
STOP FEEDING THE TNROLL! :-P
But it takes so little to keep them fed and willing to come back and be repeatedly beaten over the head.
What other entertainment can be had so cheaply, and trolls are cute, with there fuzzy green hair and big ears and all.
Posted by: David | January 6, 2009 3:54 PM
We should lock Jack Chick and Bill Donohue in a room until only one is left standing.
Posted by: nanahuatzin | January 6, 2009 3:59 PM
Patricia, OM @ 51
I saw the catholic leage website... and i am actually impressed.. To answer Chick Tracts, they recomend:
1. Use common sense.
2. Identify, evaluate, and check sources.
3. Check for misrepresentations.
4. Consult authentic sources.
5. Note admissions of lack of evidence.
6. Think through the implications.
7. Look for double standards
8. Watch for prejudicial presentations
If they used also to check their own religion, it would be wonderfull.
Posted by: WRMartin | January 6, 2009 4:01 PM
Ka @114- That euphemism treadmill has a pair of very curious ".22"s in the URL. Strangely enough that is sort of a mob euphemism. As in: Hey, Tiny (largest guy in the room) Mr. Soandso needs to be fitted for a size .22 suit. Why don't you go help him out...
Posted by: Ragutis | January 6, 2009 4:02 PM
"Look, Mommy! Satan has a funny nose like Mr. Goldberg from down the street!"
These tracts are like a smorgasbord of offense and intolerance. Or maybe an "I Spy."
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | January 6, 2009 4:06 PM
As long as they're busy codifying those ludicrous beliefs into laws I have to follow, you're goddamned right I will. As soon as the religious nuts are willing to live and let live, I'll stop publicly bashing them.
Posted by: Watchman | January 6, 2009 4:09 PM
Yeah - what Ka said. "The euphemism treadmill", yes.
I'm old enough to be slightly bemused at the "people of color" term that arose decades after "colored people" was discarded, and by the mandatory "African-American" tag (assignable to black Americans regardless of their place of birth, but not to white native-born Africans who have immigrated to the United States) that superseded the Black that was once so Beautiful... sigh.
Not that I particularly care. People should be called what they want to be called. That trumps other considerations, no?
Posted by: frog | January 6, 2009 4:11 PM
horobin: Or maybe he thinks Isis and the moon god are real, vying against the big J.
Bingo. Just look at all the little Satan cartoons and references to his minions. I'm sure he believes they are real gods -- just they happen to be opposed to our favorite universal dictator, while Satan is more of a traditional aristocrat with many levels of semi-independent vassals with their own private fiefdoms.
The Babble makes it clear that there are other gods -- and Chick is a fundamentalist believing it literally true (even if that is self-contradictory).
Posted by: Sanity Jane | January 6, 2009 4:13 PM
Tom @ #68:
FWIW, I agree. Not only is it hurtful to people with genuine disabilities, but it essentially absolves the insult's targets of intellectual responsibility for their beliefs. Sure, the religionists we mock here are often not the sharpest tools in the theological shed, but garden-variety ignorance and willful self-delusion are not incurable conditions. It's more reasonable to assume that they're capable of comprehending the facts and shedding their cherished delusions but simply afraid to do so.
"Concern troll" flaming in 3...2...1...
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | January 6, 2009 4:21 PM
I didn't realize this was a religious tract. I thought it was a parody
culmastadm, meet Poe
I really have to wonder just how many Chick tracts are currently in the hands of fundies who take him seriously, as opposed to the number in the hands of skeptics and moderate theists, who collect them for the sheer campy humour value.
Yeah, good old Chick enjoys as lofty a position in the cheap, goofy comedy pantheon as The Weekly World News.
Posted by: eddie | January 6, 2009 4:36 PM
Guys, hypersensitive much.
I don't know the history of your dealings with TNR but took his comments as critical of chick's ranting.
Am I missing something?
Also re EC @108:
Use the term cretin on Crete and you may make it off the island alive.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | January 6, 2009 4:40 PM
In the second panel, why is "Jesus" in quotes? Doesn't Chick believe in Jesus?
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | January 6, 2009 4:42 PM
Re: nanahuatzin
Patricia, OM @ 51
I saw the catholic leage website... and i am actually impressed.. To answer Chick Tracts, they recomend:
1. Use common sense.
2. Identify, evaluate, and check sources.
3. Check for misrepresentations.
4. Consult authentic sources.
5. Note admissions of lack of evidence.
6. Think through the implications.
7. Look for double standards
8. Watch for prejudicial presentations
Hmmm... no apoplectic denunciation or red-faced rant about fundagelical persecution? Could it be that Donohue is more interested in attacking libruls than he is in defending Catholics?
Posted by: Menyambal | January 6, 2009 4:51 PM
Jack Chick, God love him, has been scarily funny for many years, but seldom factual.
If my Outline Of History book is correct, the papal home was the Lateran for a long time before the Vatican was used. The "male organ" obelisk had probably fallen before then. Hmm, what does this mean about the one in DC?
Is is funny that Jack Chick has the same initials as Jesus Christ?
If Jesus died on Friday evening, and arose on Sunday morning, how does that add up to three days and three nights?
Posted by: eddie | January 6, 2009 4:54 PM
Yeah, I know. Hypersensitive refers to those who suffer a range of medical problems through no fault of their own.
How ironic.
Posted by: Rey Fox | January 6, 2009 4:54 PM
"I don't know the history of your dealings with TNR but took his comments as critical of chick's ranting."
Then who is he referring to when says "But the behavior of people here"?
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | January 6, 2009 5:05 PM
In the second panel, why is "Jesus" in quotes? Doesn't Chick believe in Jesus?
According to Chick, Catholic Jesus ain't real, blue-eyed, gun-toting Jesus. Catholic Jesus is the son of Satan and the Whore of Babylon (or Rome, Chick's sense of geography is not so great), engendered to lead the unwary into the clutches of teh debbil.
My favorite Jack Chick moment (one of my college roommates was born in Agra, so he loved quoting this):
"How many Gods did you say are in India?"
"300,000,000 -- and ALL of them are SATANIC!"
Posted by: Michael Paul Goldenberg | January 6, 2009 5:08 PM
Art Chick comics have been a guilty pleasure of mine since I first encountered them in the 1960s. They are brilliant propaganda. No matter how insane their viewpoint (and trust me when I say I've never had the slightest inclination to agree with anything in them), they are masterpieces of what they intend to communicate. They are little slices of insight into the mind of one fundamentalist self-appointed and self-anointed spokesperson, but the resonate so far beyond his idiosyncratic views as to speak volumes about a world in which one sect of one of the world's major religions gets naked about its hatred not only for other religions but for every slight variation from its own.
Having conversed with a few very nice local fundamentalists here in SE Michigan in my sixteen and a half years here, I am convinced that Chick is hardly an isolated nut. There are really plenty of folks who leave one fundamentalist church for another because the first one isn't pure enough, isn't "fundamentalist" enough, doesn't read the Bible with the "right" literal interpretations, etc. I've been told how great it is that I'm a Jew (though I am one only in cultural heritage), because of the crucial role Jews play in Christianity (thanks for nothing).
Bottom line: if I have to read hate-filled propaganda about religion and cultural mores, let it be in the form of an Art Chick comic. As I said: a definite guilty pleasure. And they're free!!!!
Posted by: Cenla | January 6, 2009 5:09 PM
@102
There's even a sad little tome known as The Trail of Blood that many Baptists believe link them to apostlic times. The basic gist is that the Waldenses, Albigenses, Cathari, the Paulicians and the Anabaptists were precursors to the modern Baptists. One of the local nuts on our newspaper forum tries to use this book as a way of establishing authority. It is usually followed by a claim that his church was founding in the upper room in Jerusalem and not in Rome.
Posted by: Michael Paul Goldenberg | January 6, 2009 5:11 PM
Oops. Jack Chick. Art Chick is someone quite different. Mea maxima culpa. :D
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield, OM | January 6, 2009 5:14 PM
Of course it does.
But that's not the case with "retard". The r-word campaign isn't asking you not to call people with cognitive/intellectual/learning disabilities "retards" -- surely, none but the most crass, ignorant, and insensitive would do that -- it's asking you not to apply that term to others as an epithet, which seems to me like a rather peculiar demand, given that they entirely reject the term for themselves in favour of those of more recent coinage. It is perfectly reasonable to say, "this word has become an insult, so we reject it entirely and prefer you to use these new terms for us"; everyone respects that. But it does seem odd to then go on to say "but don't continue to use it as an insult either", almost as if to say "because we still have some lingering attachment to it". It seems at least questionable that advertising resources are expended in a campaign that might serve to reinforce the, now very weak, association between the insult and those to whom it formerly applied legitimately.
I think it might make more sense to classify "retard" alongside "imbecile" and abandon it entirely. Nobody would dream of calling a person with cognitive/intellectual/learning disabilities an imbecile any more; such arcane usage would be regarded as utterly bizarre, the kind of thing only a complete crackpot would do. So, it seems to me that it might be more productive to try to speed the dissociation of "retard" from the c/i/l disabled, rather than suppress its use as an epithet, and that consciousness-raising activities, however noble and well-intentioned, like the r-word campaign, might wave a red flag saying "hey, we still own that word", which is surely not the right message and might actually be counter-productive.
Posted by: noncarborundum | January 6, 2009 5:35 PM
Ouch.
That should be Iesus Hominum Salvator.
Anyway, the Catholic Encyclopedia says that even this "erroneous", being a re-interpretation of what was originally a Greek abbreviation for Iesous (where "H" is the Greek long E).
Posted by: Jamdark | January 6, 2009 5:44 PM
You know, I can't but look at the comic and suddenly imagine a magic show (well, HOPEFULLY a more entertaining one):
"For my first trick, I'm going to turn this ordinary looking piece of bread into the Son of God! *gasps from the crowd* Right now, it's only bread, but watch what happens next! *rolls up sleeves* Nothing up my sleeves! *Shows audience his hands* And nothing in my hands! *lifts up a cracker* Now I say the magic words; And HALLELUIAH! Jesus! Oh dear, *picks off a few flakes* seems like he hasn't been moistering! *pause for laughter* Alright, for my next trick, I'm going to need a volunteer..."
*returns to lurking*
Posted by: Levi in NY | January 6, 2009 5:45 PM
Hmm...the last panel says "He'll save anyone who receives him!"
No thanks, I don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
Posted by: hje | January 6, 2009 5:48 PM
"Has anyone told Bill O'Donahue about this?"
I agree with #95. Jack Chick may not like atheists, but he really, viscerally hates Catholics (and Muslims, Jews, etc.). He definitely has something against those he perceives as "foreigners" --it's so obvious in his style (when he was doing the drawing).
Can you imagine a century from now--some prestigious museum will have a retrospective of the collected works of Jack Chick--just because they are so perversely weird.
Posted by: Elliott | January 6, 2009 5:53 PM
Is Chick saying that the Catholic eurachist is just a frickin' cracker?
If yes, they why does PZ get the grief and not ol' man Chick?
Posted by: MikeM | January 6, 2009 5:56 PM
Okay, I'm having a "Dear Abby" moment.
I found a Chick Tract in the center console of our friends' car when we borrowed it the other day. I sincerely believe they think Chick Tracts are a great idea.
So now what? Cut 'em off? Pretend I didn't see it? Steal it?
I like the last option best. I can tell them they're reaching me, but I need some more convincin'. Right at the end, say, "NAH!", then walk away. Go have a beer or something.
Thoughts? Recommendations? Ideas? Anyone? Remember, I'm approaching this from the POV that any belief in the spirit world is complete bullshit.
Posted by: Chris A. | January 6, 2009 6:01 PM
@MikeM
Maybe he saving it for laughs
Posted by: Kate | January 6, 2009 6:06 PM
@Mike M
...or maybe you could just, you know, not be a lying dick about it? Why not just ask?
...or would that interfere with your trolling?
Posted by: MikeM | January 6, 2009 6:12 PM
Thanks for the advice, Kate!
I was leaning towards "Ignore it", but really, if you think I'd be less of a dick if I blew it up, I'll take that under advisement!
Excellent answer.
Or... Maybe you might try wearing someone else's shoes for a while? Nah. Forget that idea.
Posted by: Miguel | January 6, 2009 6:17 PM
Somebody get out the popcorn! I'm waiting for the showdown between Jack Chick and the CADC. What!? "Never. Gonna. Happen.", you say? Bummer!
(Also bummer that aratina @ #35 beat me to it.)
Posted by: wicked, wicked Patricia, OM | January 6, 2009 6:41 PM
Thankyou Jadehawk! I will wear my new medal with pride.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | January 6, 2009 6:51 PM
Oh no, wicked, wicked Patricia and her henchhens are out to take over the farm. Run for your lives. :)
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | January 6, 2009 6:56 PM
Is Chick saying that the Catholic eurachist is just a frickin' cracker?
If yes, they why does PZ get the grief and not ol' man Chick
Simple answer- PZ is a liberal, Chick is an authoritarian reactionary. The Catholic League has always been more about the GOP than the RCC.
Posted by: Miguel | January 6, 2009 7:27 PM
Actually, it seems the CL doesn't like Chick, but they're not too vociferous about it.
Posted by: JakeS | January 6, 2009 7:37 PM
Did anyone else notice that panel four starts out with "Step Three", when steps one and two (presumably have second and third panel) are not pointed out as clearly?
Posted by: Metro | January 6, 2009 7:44 PM
@Horrobin #109
Chick believes Catholics started Islam. No Poe.
To All:
I humbly apologize for using the word "retarded" of Jack Chick. Stuck for a word to describe his deliberate, ignorant, conspiracist bigotry toward a group he has so much in common with, I retreated into the language of my high school and young adulthood. That was stupid of me, and insulting to people who genuinely suffer from developmental disabilities. My attitudes have perhaps evolved a bit faster than my language.
Posted by: steve | January 6, 2009 8:08 PM
Wow. An evangelist cartoon mocking a nearly identical sect?
My faith in humanity dwindles...
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | January 6, 2009 8:28 PM
Steve #153
No, a rival sect. Chick and many other evangelicals believe that if shown "the truth" about Catholicism, Catholics would become evangelicals.
Posted by: «bønez_brigade» | January 6, 2009 8:44 PM
Count me in for those who wonder is Bill Donohue has seen this yet. I agree that right-wingers like to keep other right-wingers as buddies, even if they hate them. But this is the kind of shit that should make Donohue shit a goddamn pack of crackers.
Where are you when we need you, oh William A. Donohue?
Posted by: dkew | January 6, 2009 8:46 PM
A current euphemism for "stupid" is "rides the short bus."
Posted by: Don't Panic | January 6, 2009 10:01 PM
dkew, as a parent of a child that literally "rides the short bus" but isn't "stupid" (just handicapped w/ ADHD) it's not a euphemism that I care much for and would much appreciate if the the two weren't associated. Actually two short busses visit our court of seven houses. The other boy isn't stupid either, just physically crippled. Not taking great insult here, just raising awareness. No doubt my concern will be noted.
Actually, I don't know how 'current' this euphemism is. I'm sure I used it at some point in the past prior to becoming aware how over-encompassing it was, which means at least 5 years ago. What's the half life of these terms of insult anyway?
Posted by: Jello | January 6, 2009 11:56 PM
Just a little nit pick of Chicks representation of the communion blessing but the magic words are usually spoken in the local tongue rather then Latin these days.
Posted by: Tom | January 7, 2009 12:19 AM
The MR label is still in current official use so it's hard to dispose of it. My son receives services from OMRDD in NY. So at this point I think we would prefer that the label only be used from a professional point of view. I think in the long run we would like it to go the way of the n-word but that isn't going to happen yet. Meanwhile, retarded doesn't mean stupid. It means delayed.
Posted by: arachnophilia | January 7, 2009 12:51 AM
chick writes, in his always curious footnotes:
i'm reasonably positive that communion is, and to some degree, possibly even transubstantiation. pretty curious for someone like chick to have never heard of the last supper and the words "this is my body" and "this is my blood" and the command to "do this in rememberance of me."
Posted by: Badger3k | January 7, 2009 12:56 AM
"Papa"?
Nah, for the better ones, look to "The Death Cookie". Nice one, but I expected more Wookies.
Posted by: Patricia, OM | January 7, 2009 1:52 AM
Nerd, you naughty lover of Redheads - my prissy, saucy, pullets prance past you, and wave their wattles in your direction!
Bon vivant that you are, I grant you carte blanche with the pullets,
may all your omelettes come true.
Posted by: Chris Tucker | January 7, 2009 2:27 AM
"WHAM!"
Wake me up, before you go go..
Posted by: antaresrichard | January 7, 2009 3:12 AM
Purgatory? Pffft! Our God just sends people straight to Hell!
Like that's an improvement??
Posted by: Muffin | January 7, 2009 5:21 AM
Sooo... does that mean that Jack Chick would approve of your cracker trashing? o.o
PZ Myers and Jack Chick agreeing on something that has to do with religion? The mind boggles.
Posted by: Matt Heath | January 7, 2009 6:07 AM
That's pretty damn tenuous though. I always thought it was hilarious that the catholic church holds that when desert pastoralists wrote down their illiterate ancestors' creation myths they were using metaphor (the RCC doesn't do YEC), but when a respected rabbi in a Roman province (Jesus) says that some bread is his body, that is literal.Also even if you do take it literally it's kind of jump from "I (the messiah) have made this bread be my body" to "If they go through so rites invented around the 10th century after my death certain otherwise ordinary men can make funny little biscuit things be my body".
Posted by: Snark7 | January 7, 2009 6:41 AM
Praised be the lorde !
He tasteth just like chicken!
Posted by: G. Shelley | January 7, 2009 9:19 AM
The most impressive thing about chick is that on hearing the magic words "Jesus died for your sins" every single person believes it, the majority falling to their knees and praying for him to come into their heart.
I would imagine any normal person, on being told "God won't allow sin into heaven, Jesus came to wash away our sins and the price was paid in full for those that believe it" would get a "huh?, that doesn't make any sense at all" response
Posted by: Grace Conyers | January 7, 2009 9:22 AM
I think I'm the only person here that is desensitized enough to Christian bashing that the first thing I noted was how similar the second panel looked like a panel featuring God in Sinfest. I wonder if Jack Chick is a fan.
Posted by: SteveM | January 7, 2009 9:36 AM
Those three quotes do not necessarily mean transubstantiation. The first two could easily just be metaphors. Didn't Jesus also say to someone, "You are the salt of the earth", did he transform into a pile of salt? Just about everything Jesus says in the Bible is a metaphor, why are these two alone to be taken literally?
Posted by: False Prophet | January 7, 2009 11:13 AM
Just about everything Jesus says in the Bible is a metaphor, why are these two alone to be taken literally?
Because it's a common misconception that evangelicals and fundies read the Bible literally and other Christians read it metaphorically.
In actual, fact, all Christians take parts of the Bible literally and parts of it metaphorically. It's all about reinforcing the ideology of your specific denomination. Fundies take the lines about homosexuality being an abomination literally, but tend to gloss over the nearby verses about wearing two kinds of fabric or eating shellfish. Catholics take the "this is my body/blood" literally but kind of ignore the graven images part. More liberal Christian denominations ignore or gloss over the homophobic verses but still embrace helping the poor and the belief in redemption after death.
Incidentally, parodies of Chick tracts are almost as humourous as the real deal!
Posted by: 60613 | January 7, 2009 11:25 AM
Of all the crap we must believe (or burn in hell for not believing) this transubstantiation is the most crappy.
If anyone other than a priest or theologian were to claim transubatantiation as a reality, that person would be hanged, drawn, quartered and excommunicated.
Just another exercise in magic to control the masses.
Jesus - I hate the church.
Posted by: Watchman | January 7, 2009 11:51 AM
Emmett: But that's not the case with "retard".
True, and just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply that it was. I was changing the subject (slightly). Anyway, I agree with you completely. Good analysis.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead | January 7, 2009 12:02 PM
Patricia, seeing wicked in your monicker started a flight of fancy that had you being a Bond villainess with
henchmenhenchhens, and your ladies struting around with bandoliers across their chests and mini-uzis under their wings, scaring your dogs. Slow day at work.Posted by: Inky | January 7, 2009 2:02 PM
Just wondering: Do they make organic wafers? Or Fair Trade wafers?
Posted by: dkew | January 7, 2009 2:39 PM
#157
Yes, concern noted. Although "rides the short bus" does amuse me, my thought was to add to the euphemism list. These threads on PC acceptable terminology tend to flame on endlessly, so consider this my contribution.
Late to the game, by now, but does anyone have suggestions for insults that are acceptable here? Insults are have a cultural context, and we have discouraged those based on gender, ethnicity, sexual preference, age, body type, age and mental status, at least. I like "shit-for-brains," but that probably offends the libertarians, being so apt. What's left? There was the Monty Python skit to develop the ultimate insult, the punchline being, "Bellll-gian."
Posted by: Don't Panic | January 7, 2009 5:09 PM
Oh, "rides the short bus" amused me as well. Probably still does to some extent.
As well as Monty Python using "Belgian" as an insult there is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/belgium.shtml. Still I'm not sure that we should use this as an insult in earnest as there are no doubt reasonable Belgians in the world.
Posted by: how | January 8, 2009 8:11 PM
First of all, PZ, you need to get yer ass out of academia and get yourself a national talk show. Or remain in academia and get yourself a national talk show, I'm not that picky, and Novella seems to have 138hrs a day, so why shouldn't you?
Secondly, I've been reading you for about 6 or 8 months now, and it seems to me that you've only recently discovered Jack Chick; here in NYC, his awesome l'il comic pamphlets have been circulating for years: many has been the time when I'd find a new one on the subway, detailing an outrageous story of some seeming innocent who was really on the highway to an ETERNITY OF DAMNATION IN THE FIERY PITS OF HELL...ahhh, I relished them like tranya, the utter malice & hate that dripped from their pages, disguised as Jesus' love. I had a collection of them, but they got lost in a move a few years back. Mem'ries...
Anyway, keep up the good work, and don't let that flagellum hit you on the way out....
Posted by: Anonymous
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January 13, 2009 10:58 AM
No, it's not magic, neither is it science. It's something else again. The main reason objective science only developed in the Christian West is that medieval theologians made a hard distinction between the Natural and the Supernatural and we've kept them separate ever since. Ever hear of Occam's Razor?
Posted by: Steve_C | January 13, 2009 11:14 AM
hehe. What is it? Do tell.