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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
Category: Kooks
Posted on: January 22, 2009 8:00 AM, by PZ Myers
Here's another gagworthy media experience for you all: an interview on Skeptiko with Denyse O'Leary, author of one of the worst books I've ever read, The Spiritual Brain. O'Leary is awful, as usual, but the interviewer is horribly credulous as well — I had to turn it off when he started nattering on about the wonderful evidence of near-death experiences.
I'm feeling terribly cruel this morning. It must be the fact that on Thursdays I have to teach an 8am class.
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Comments
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead
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January 22, 2009 8:07 AM
An 8 AM class? I thought you had some seniority. Oh, probably a lab. The inhumanity of it. No matter how hard it is you, it is harder on the students.
Posted by: Libbie | January 22, 2009 8:09 AM
We love you best when you're cruel, P.Z.
Somebody needs to point these two buffoons in the direction of the Penn & Teller Bullshit episode about NDEs.
Posted by: Logicel | January 22, 2009 8:13 AM
We would perish without your 'tough love.'
Posted by: Philos | January 22, 2009 8:14 AM
Per the current Texas Curriculum Standards debacle:
"I hope you understand now that there are good reasons to think that, yes, evolution has weaknesses that reasonable people can see, that, yes, those weaknesses do really influence the theory," said Ralph Seelke, a biology professor at the University of Wisconsin-Superior, who served on the review panel.
Posted by: EMUAlgaeGirl | January 22, 2009 8:27 AM
I feel your pain! I teach at 8:30am that I have to get to campus at 7:30 because of parking! Go ahead and be mean. It'll keep you awake.
Posted by: X. Wolp | January 22, 2009 8:40 AM
Skeptiko is, despite the name, an apologetic podcast that buys into all sorts of woowoo and horribly designed studies, so that is not a big surprise.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | January 22, 2009 8:42 AM
They probably should have changed their name after their first episode, since their agenda is:
Right.
These jokers rail against materialism, but they still recognize materialism as the starting point of their "investigations".
i.e. what would 'paranormal' mean to them if materialism wasn't 'normal'?
Posted by: PZ Myers | January 22, 2009 8:45 AM
I was horribly confused at first -- I thought it had something to do with Skeptico, which is actually a blog for skeptics. The more I listened, though, the more appalled I became.
Maybe that's why I was cranky. I'm up early for classes, and then I was cruelly tricked by this misleading podcast.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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January 22, 2009 8:46 AM
I wonder book and blog plugs she got in. I couldn't stomach listening to it.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | January 22, 2009 8:47 AM
Skeptico is not Skeptiko.
Posted by: Sigmund | January 22, 2009 8:49 AM
Skeptiko has featured on the Skeptics Guide to the Universe before (I think episode 125 if you want to search it out).
As others have said it's not a skeptic site - its pretty much a standard woo-woo advocacy group. Their big thing is psi so one can imagine they are pretty much just as scientific as 'Denyse Denyse - I'm so in love with woo-oo-oo' (apologies to Blondie fans).
Posted by: mr-zero | January 22, 2009 8:50 AM
'Skeptiko.' Who said Americans don't do irony?
Posted by: Orac | January 22, 2009 8:50 AM
Actually, the real Skeptico is none too happy about the fake Skeptiko.
Posted by: Orac | January 22, 2009 8:55 AM
8 AM? I long for an 8 AM start to my day. I could sleep in.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | January 22, 2009 8:57 AM
Fuck the heck? Did philos escape from the dungeon? What's with the pointless, out-of-context and content-free quotes from known ID boosters?
Posted by: Pete | January 22, 2009 8:58 AM
I used to post reviews of the awful Skeptiko podcasts on the Skeptics' Guide forums until I couldn't stand it any more. I haven't listened to a Skeptiko episode in months, but I'm not surprised that Alex (the host) is still batting away at near death experiences - that always seemed to be the single biggest pseudo claptrap he tried to push. When he wasn't spouting about NDEs, he was kissing the feet of Rupert Sheldrake and Dean Radin. What a dope.
Posted by: Jello | January 22, 2009 9:08 AM
Of topic but If anyone's interested we are unflatteringly depicted in today's Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
http://www.smbc-comics.com/#comic
Posted by: mayhempix
|
January 22, 2009 9:11 AM
"I'm feeling terribly cruel this morning..."
That's what happens when you go to evil portals like Suicide Girls.
Next thing we know you'll posting pics of your new nipple rings.
Posted by: mayhempix
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January 22, 2009 9:13 AM
Grammar Police@#18
"Next thing we know you'll BE posting pics of your new nipple rings.
Posted by: Codswallop | January 22, 2009 9:34 AM
"Skeptiko" is a notorious fraud. The SGU guys have had some dealings with them, including trying to design a protocol for testing psychics.
In reference to Skeptiko's claim of skepticism: "It's like Sylvia Browne wearing a beard and glasses and showing up at TAM claiming to be Randi."
Posted by: tewhy | January 22, 2009 9:34 AM
I'd point out that the URL is missing a '3' at the end, but considering the mood the interview apparently put you in, maybe a broken link's better after all...
Posted by: Holbach | January 22, 2009 9:37 AM
The book should be rightly titled:
"The Dead Brain: A Phony Scientist's Case For the Existence of Religion As the Cause Of Insanity".
Posted by: Codswallop | January 22, 2009 9:39 AM
"Skeptiko" is a notorious fraud. The SGU guys have had some dealings with them, including trying to design a protocol for testing psychics.
In reference to Skeptiko's claim of skepticism, Rebecca Watson once said: "It's like Sylvia Browne wearing a beard and glasses and showing up at TAM claiming to be Randi."
Posted by: Jim Lippard | January 22, 2009 9:49 AM
Here's a must-read on near-death experiences:
Keith Augustine's "Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences" at the Secular Web:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html
Also of note is his "Case Against Immortality":
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/immortality.html
Posted by: BdN | January 22, 2009 9:55 AM
Sssshhhhhh! Don't be too harsh on them, they already think we are jerks (http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-podcast/628-why-skeptics-jerks.html).
BTW, notice the adress and the name of their "skeptics" forum...
Posted by: llewelly | January 22, 2009 9:56 AM
Mysteriously, 'near-death experiences' became much less common when use of ketamine in hospitals was replaced with other drugs.Posted by: BdN | January 22, 2009 10:04 AM
"Mysteriously, 'near-death experiences' became much less common when use of ketamine in hospitals was replaced with other drugs. "
Does this imply that plenty of animals, including monkeys, know Gawd ?
Posted by: wiz5 | January 22, 2009 10:16 AM
It's amazing that he made Denyse sound like the sane one.
Why does it end suddenly?
Posted by: Vronvron | January 22, 2009 10:20 AM
Denyse O'Leary is from Toronto.
She can be cured of her delusions if she hops on a bus, an atheist bus.
Coming soon to the streets of Toronto.
http://atheistbus.ca/
http://atheistbus.ca/banners/forumsig-donated.jpg
Posted by: Skeptico | January 22, 2009 10:20 AM
Skeptiko is an embarrassment. I wish I'd thought to register that domain first.
Posted by: Jyotsana | January 22, 2009 10:30 AM
Sigmund #11 - Apology accepted (although now I have that song stuck in my head) :)
Posted by: kermit | January 22, 2009 10:40 AM
Well I don't know about you guys but *I find NDEs to be pretty persuasive evidence that some people have almost died.
Posted by: Brian Hogg | January 22, 2009 10:42 AM
I agree that it's quite impressive that the Christian Scientist comes off like the sane one, and the one who actually listens.
To the Alex's (the host) credit, he started out with the goal of investigating paranormal claims. He professed to be a skeptic of such things, and expected to find little reason to believe. He seems, in retrospect, to be not unlike so many people who say they were an atheist before they realized the truth of religion: namely, that their reasons for not being religious were pretty stupid, and such stupid reasons fall in the light of more appealing, but equally stupid reasons. He and his fans are your typically ardent believers who are sure that we skeptical folks are adhering to our meaningless, totally-not-responsible-for-the-way-we-can-live-for-a-long-time-and-understand-the-universe materialsm is because we have too much invested in it, and we're awful and closed-minded and if we just Did The Research we'd see the light and know that the world is much more exciting than we think it is.
Alex himself has shut himself off from inquiry and dissenting views, having decided he's found the answer, and has the energy of the newly converted, as evidenced by the rather remarkable fact that, in this particular episode, he actually attempts to proselytize to a Christian Scientist.
Posted by: LiquidThinker | January 22, 2009 12:28 PM
I don't see how she can use near death experiences as any type of evidence after I've already taken them apart in my own little blog.
In summary:
1)There's a physiological basis for the tunnel and light (as discussed by Susan Blackmore.).
2)Problems with a specific brain structure results in the feeling of disunity with the body giving rise to the out of body experiences (easily reproducible).
3) Evidence indicates that shutting down a neural network gives rise to "life reviews", or reliving past experiences, and hallucinations.
An out of body existence is not necessary to explain any of these experiences and doesn't answer anything.
Posted by: qbsmd | January 22, 2009 12:45 PM
I would like the reference for that. That would very useful to have around.
Posted by: BdN | January 22, 2009 1:01 PM
http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/jansen1.html
Posted by: BdN | January 22, 2009 1:06 PM
Not considering the babbling before the abstract....
Posted by: Kraid | January 22, 2009 1:45 PM
Denis Leary > Denys O'Leary
Posted by: Steven | January 22, 2009 2:13 PM
KEE-RIST 8am? Are you all barbarians in Minnesota. The earliest I ever have had a class is 9am and even that my eyes are still stuck together and I am still in the process of becoming concious.
Posted by: Rey Fox | January 22, 2009 2:25 PM
"No matter how hard it is you, it is harder on the students."
I kinda doubt that. PZ has to get up extra early to actually prepare the lecture or the lab and whatnot. Whereas if I had an 8 AM class in college, I wouldn't have been out of bed before 7:40.
Posted by: Robster, FCD | January 22, 2009 5:01 PM
I hate teaching my 8am lab already. They aren't awake enough for me to really mess with their minds, i.e. spoon bending followed by an explanation of how the trick is done. You need it to be 9:30 for the caffeine to kick in and to be astounded by a not quite psychic phenomena.
Posted by: Desert Son | January 22, 2009 5:55 PM
Brian Hogg at #33:
Thank you for making this point.
What particularly drives me batty about this is that, news flash for the supernatural supporters: Earth (and the universe in which it hurtles) really IS more exciting than we think it is, in part because there's still so much we don't know, and the journey of discovery is really, really fun! Come! Join our reindeer games! Reality is totally awesome (in the original sense of that word). Not to mention, the stuff we do know a few things about, is often really, really cool! Physics! Chemistry! Star genesis! Molecular biology! Background radiation! Human psychology! Great sex! Dinosaurs millions of years ago! Rock and/or Roll! Ice cream! The aurora borealis! Domestication of dogs (and other neat-o animals)! Non-domestication of neat-o animals! Neat-o animals! Roller coasters! Red shift! Evolution! Environmental influences on human psychological development! Ethiopian food! Languages, foreign and domestic! Damascus steel! Binary circuits! Watercolors! Thelonious Monk! The list goes on and on!
But, well, shit, if they can't appreciate it, their loss.
No kings,
Robert
Posted by: Wayne | January 22, 2009 9:43 PM
"Posted on: January 22, 2009 8:00 AM, by PZ Myers"
Hey, shouldn't you actually be in the class to teach it, rather than indulging our craving for more posts?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
|
January 22, 2009 9:46 PM
Yes technology has not evolved to the point where you can schedule posts to occur at a different time than when you wrote them.
Posted by: Ema | January 22, 2009 10:40 PM
I skip my 8:30 classes...maybe you should too! :P
Posted by: DLC | January 23, 2009 12:53 AM
Dense O'Bleary. right. I'll pass on it.
Posted by: africangenesis | January 23, 2009 1:13 AM
I think PZ is employed in the central time zone, and the blog is in the eastern.
Posted by: JM Inc. | January 23, 2009 2:47 AM
Wow, they're both hideously annoying people. I love how they both sit there arguing over their own idiotic misunderstandings, both trying insufferably to inject their personal opinions into the conversation as though either one of them cared what anybody other than theirself thought. The best part (as far as I know, I didn't listen to all of it), was when they both got to agree that mainstream science rejects the mystical misunderstanding of near-death experiences, but that therefore we must reject mainstream science, because it doesn't tell us what we know we ought to hear. Ah yes, all the convincing research done by a small minority of people who were convinced to begin with; what a powerful argument.
Posted by: Badger3k | January 24, 2009 3:07 PM
I never thought of this in this way, but I have some kind of neurological thing (still trying to figure it out) and maybe something with sugar (although I do not have anything with diabetes yet) that makes me...drift. I start by feeling disconnected, like I am watching everything from a short distance, although I am not out-of-body. I still am in control, but it just seems like I am not fully in reality. Completely odd, but I wonder if this is something similar. Maybe that part of the brain is being stimulated or suppressed. Might have some connection to OBEs or NDEs.