Pharyngula

I was wondering why Harun Yahya kept sending me new copies of his remarkably tedious tome, the Atlas of Creation. It turns out he’s been busy expunging it of embarrassing errors, like the infamous caddis fly fishing lure presented as an example of a modern insect. Several of these revisions have been documented now — the Atlas evolves! I think in this case we can safely say that no intelligent design was involved.

Comments

  1. #1 Jaycubed
    February 26, 2009

    Everything evolves, even stupidity.

  2. #2 Merkin
    February 26, 2009

    The bible is the truth set in stone, except when it must finally be adapted to account for unavoidable, uncomfortable reality.

  3. #3 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 26, 2009

    Even new and improved, it is still drivel.

  4. #4 Eurosid
    February 26, 2009

    I commend him. That’s what you do in science, isn’t it? Winnow out the errors?

    Eventually, he will have no book left. That would be good.

    Keep after him, PZ.

  5. #5 Glen Davidson
    February 26, 2009

    The enormous error, that of having a preconceived idea for which one seeks only for confirmation (not willing to allow falsification), while ignoring the enormous confirmatory evidence on the other side, is not likely to be corrected any time soon.

    It glares out of the pages of all cretinism and IDiocy.

    Glen D
    http://tinyurl.com/6mb592

  6. #6 MissPrism
    February 26, 2009

    Do you know how he decides who to send them to? Is it like getting a “congratulations! you are now famous enough to attract cranks” award?

  7. #7 Kitty'sBitch
    February 26, 2009

    HA!!
    I’ve got the copy with the fishing lure.

    Classic crazy.

  8. #8 Matt Heath
    February 26, 2009

    @Merkin, Well in this case the koran rather than the bible, but you say potato…

  9. #9 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    On behalf of Mr Yaha, I’d like to point out that he is a sincere man, driven by the best of motives.
    If the best Professor Myers can do is to to sneer at this Godly man of science, s man without a single human flaw but without the means to defend himself, then it is a dark day for atheism.
    When oh when will the Godless, doomed hordes who post here learn to debate civilly?
    The rudeness here is shocking.
    I will continue to post this, without variation, until I have proved myself entirely correct.
    Good day.
    I will pray for your miserable, damned souls.
    In Allah.
    xxxx

  10. #10 freelunch
    February 26, 2009

    The Poe is strong with you, AnthonyK. I find no way to tell if this is delusion or mockery.

  11. #11 mig
    February 26, 2009

    I have that book. It’s available via Torretz. It has beautifull images and stupid words…

  12. #12 SteveN
    February 26, 2009

    “Mr Yaha… this Godly man of science, s man without a single human flaw”

    Please tell me that AnthonyK is just a Poe. No human being could be that blind, could they?

  13. #13 Doubting Foo
    February 26, 2009

    He sounds as kooky as the guys I saw last night from “Reasons to Believe”: Dr. Michael Shermer at UNF for the “University Skeptics Forum”

  14. #14 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    he Poe is strong with you, AnthonyK. I find no way to tell if this is delusion or mockery.

    AnthonyK smiled. He knew the Poe Field Generator could be used to his advantage…

  15. #15 co
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK says:

    I will continue to post this, without variation, until I have proved myself entirely correct.

    That may be the most brilliant meta-Poe I’ve seen.

  16. #16 Bernoulli
    February 26, 2009

    I think in this case we can safely say that no intelligent design was involved.

    Who knows. But what is sure is no natural selection was involved .

  17. #17 llewelly
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK | February 26, 2009 1:58 PM

    When oh when will the Godless, doomed hordes who post here learn to debate civilly?

    I will continue to post this, without variation, until I have proved myself entirely correct.
    Good day.
    I will pray for your miserable, damned souls.
    In Allah.

    Thank you for demonstrating polite discourse. I’m sure we will learn much from your kind example.

  18. #18 Marcus J. Ranum
    February 26, 2009

    When oh when will the Godless, doomed hordes who post here learn to debate civilly?

    When hell freezes over.

    And, since there’s no hell, it’s gonna be a loooooong time coming.

  19. #19 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    Wow, I’m beginning to believe that there must be a genetic deficiency like red/green color blindness for people who cannot distinguish a tongue-in-cheek satire from a straight-faced poe.

  20. #20 mig
    February 26, 2009

    Ah… finaly i learned how to sign in

  21. #21 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    But what is sure is no natural selection was involved .

    Prove your statement, oh mighty pedant of windbaggery.

  22. #22 Steve_C
    February 26, 2009

    Bernoulli.

    What’s your explanation for the diversity of life?

  23. #23 Bridget M. Blodgett
    February 26, 2009

    Oh no… I’m damned to a place I don’t believe in. :)

    I realize this is a total newb question but what is a Poe? I’ve seen the term several times but can’t figure it out.

  24. #24 dean
    February 26, 2009

    What would the fact that AnthonyK says “Mr. Yaha” when it apparently should be “Mr. Yahya” tell us? (other than the fact that they could be simply be yahoos)

  25. #26 Mike in Ontario, NY
    February 26, 2009

    Of course AnthonyK is a Poe, as the lack of grammatical error and rampant misspellings are usually the dead giveaways.

    When real creonuts post, they’re usually typing so fervently that errors are rampant.
    I guess the holy spook that moves them is lacking in sound writing skills.

  26. #27 Patricia, OM
    February 26, 2009

    Doubting Foo – Thanks for the link. That sounds like an interesting evening. I hope it shows up on YouTube. So gawd is still resting huh…first time I’ve heard that one.

  27. #28 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    The vile abuse has started already!
    Mr Yaha is a man whose bottom “Professor” Myers is not fit to wipe. His wisdom is without number, his compassion beyond weight, and his knowledge farther then any pointing.
    Crude attacks of the shrieking throngs of atheists here serve only to swell his pride almost to bursting.
    Be warned ye Harpies of Hell!
    In Allah’s Love
    xxxxx

  28. #29 Doubting Foo
    February 26, 2009

    YES AND HE DIDNT USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE HE WAS SO UPSET BY ALL THIS MATERIALISM THAT HE JUST HAD TO GET THE WORDS OUT QUICKLY

  29. #30 Newfie
    February 26, 2009

    um… that caddis fly pattern is not called a fishing lure.
    It’s a dry fishing fly, used for fly fishing. Lures are used for spin casting, or bait casting setups. The weight of a lure, when cast, loads energy into the fishing rod. In fly fishing, the weight of the line loads the energy into the rod.

    /fly fisherman

  30. #31 Doubting Foo
    February 26, 2009

    Patricia, they did video it so perhaps it will show up somewhere.

  31. #32 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    Don’t get Bernoulli started. He’s a Coarse Acting Festival King Lear (The actors and Brits in the crowd will get the reference). Or to quote Macbeth “…it is a tale told by an idiot – full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

  32. #33 co
    February 26, 2009

    Another fisherman (fly and otherwise) here. Dry flies (and wet flies, and all manner) are lures, by definition. Additionally, the rod gives energy *to* the lure (or to the fly line, which then moves the fly).

  33. #34 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    The sublime Mr Yaha wishes to inform the more thoughtful posters that he entirely agrees with Mr Bernoulli.
    He therefore hopes that Mr Bernoulli will also be treated with respect and allowed to repeat himself loudly and ignorantly over and over again until the last syllable of recrded time.
    The prophet sends kisses (tongues!)

  34. #35 Flori-DUH Rob
    February 26, 2009

    @28

    DUCK!!!! High velocity pride shrapnel coming!!!!!

  35. #36 Newfie
    February 26, 2009

    Another fisherman (fly and otherwise) here. Dry flies (and wet flies, and all manner) are lures, by definition.

    If you and I were flyfishing, and I asked what lure you used, you’d think that I was a noob. I’d ask, what fly? ..or, what pattern?

  36. #37 Qwerty
    February 26, 2009

    Nerd of Redhead @ 3 – Even new and improved, it is still drivel.

    That sounds like something booksellers should use for a sticker: NEW & IMPROVED DRIVEL!

  37. #38 co
    February 26, 2009

    If you and I were flyfishing, and I asked what lure you used, you’d think that I was a noob. I’d ask, what fly? ..or, what pattern?

    I *might* think that, but I’m pretty easygoing as to nomenclature when there isn’t much chance of mixing up concepts. :-)

  38. #39 Newfie
    February 26, 2009

    I *might* think that, but I’m pretty easygoing as to nomenclature when there isn’t much chance of mixing up concepts. :-)

    I wouldn’t want my surgeon to ask for “that small triangular knife”. :P

  39. #40 mig
    February 26, 2009

    Bernouli
    “Who knows. But what is sure is no natural selection was involved”

    That´s the only thing we actually know. Natural selection was involved. That’s what we learned 150 years of Biology. In what yaer are you living? The dark ages?

  40. #41 teammarty
    February 26, 2009

    And I always thought POE stood for “Parody of Evangelicals” or something simular.

    Here’s to ya Nathan.

  41. #42 WRMartin
    February 26, 2009

    The Elk hair caddis is my favorite-est dry fly ever. How very dare he!

    Harun Yahya?
    Gesundheit!

  42. #43 bungoton
    February 26, 2009

    Siveambrai,
    Poe refers to Poe’s Law which states that:
    Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.

    See Wikipedia for more info.

  43. #44 T_U_T
    February 26, 2009

    That´s the only thing we actually know. Natural selection was involved. That’s what we learned 150 years of Biology. In what yaer are you living? The dark ages?

    You misread him I think. He was obviously talking about the atlas of creation and its (d)evolution, not about biology.

  44. #45 NewEnglandBob
    February 26, 2009

    My boat needs a new anchor. Send me copies, please.

  45. #46 Darren S. A. George
    February 26, 2009

    I hear they have nice pictures- if you’re going to get rid of them, where do I sign up to receive a copy?

  46. #47 Rick R
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK- “Mr Yaha is a man whose bottom “Professor” Myers is not fit to wipe.”

    You blew it, bud. You spelled PZ’s name correctly.

  47. #48 Darren S. A. George
    February 26, 2009

    Or should I email Mr. Yaha to see if I can get a free copy, just to make sure he has to pay for the postage?

  48. #49 Darren S. A. George
    February 26, 2009

    Quote: “The prophet sends kisses (tongues!)”

    I think that should clear up any question about whether AK’s posts are tongue-in-cheek or not.

  49. #50 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    Hateful infidels!
    Allah spits in your porridge!
    Prove to me that even one boy descended from its mother’s womb – a different sex entirely!
    Allah sends lovebites
    xxxxxxx

  50. #51 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    It’s a good time to point out that the point of producing a poe is to be so outlandish and preposterous, without giving a nudge or a wink, and get your claims accepted as examples of fundamentalist inanity. It’s just good clean fun!
    Yet, many fundamentalist’s claims are so perversely preposterous that most people assume them to be wry parodies, which is the danger of crying “poe”. Some of the more militant with their hate/intolerance/woo screeds tend to be malevolent and/or violent when not taken seriously.
    More troubling are the numbers of intelligent people who have not bothered to listen to Christian/conservative radio or TV pundits like Rush. They may hear a sound bite or two but they are oblivious to the hatred and insanity spewed daily and dismiss their audiences as inconsequential. They cry “poe” when they should be alarmed that they are blind and deaf to a significant number of very disturbed people. You don’t have to sit in on a weekly vigil, just experience how different some people’s thinking is from your own, especially when it comes to science versus religion and conservatism versus centrism versus liberalism. It’s out there on the airwaves every day.

  51. #52 Kitty'sBitch
    February 26, 2009

    Why Anthony Knobcheese, what a mischievous little strumpet you are.

    “Allah sends lovebites”

    If he’ll throw in a reacharound, we’ll talk.

  52. #53 Alverant
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK, a tip to writing a good Poe is to NOT quote a Monty Python dialog. #28

  53. #54 E.V.
    February 26, 2009

    If he’ll throw in a reacharound, we’ll talk.

    Of course! Left hand only though.

  54. #55 Paul
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK,

    Thanks for using your normal handle for your satire. There is still a couple of people that think you’re serious, which keeps it interesting. But this way it keeps the regulars from going all Don Quixote on an obvious windmill, as they tend to pay attention to handles.

  55. #56 Otto
    February 26, 2009

    I really would like an atlas of creation, if it could be
    had for less than 25 bucks.
    It would provide me hours of amusement!

  56. #57 Patricia, OM
    February 26, 2009

    My, my. AnthonyK you are certainly full of piss and vinegar today.

    Harpies of Hell, like that.

  57. #58 Mark
    February 26, 2009

    PZ, how many revisions do you think he needs to make before the book becomes useful?

  58. #59 Kitty'sBitch
    February 26, 2009

    Otto
    It may cost you $25 just to ship it. This thing weighs like 12 pounds.
    I’d suggest looking on Ebay.
    Try to get the one with the red cover.

  59. #60 pk
    February 26, 2009

    If anyone wants a good laugh, check out Mr. Yadayada’s site, criesofdarwinism.com, in which he demolishes the theory of evolution due to the lack of lizarabbit fossils. …Oh, and the recent-looking cat skull he claims is a “tiger fossil that has remained unchanged for 80 million years”

    Then read this for additional ROF and LMAO…

  60. #61 'Tis Himself
    February 26, 2009

    If you and I were flyfishing, and I asked what lure you used, you’d think that I was a noob. I’d ask, what fly? ..or, what pattern?

    I’d have to see what the hatch looks like before I could tell you what I was using. Of course you could always use a caddis or a terrestrial, they often work if there isn’t a hatch.

  61. #62 Greg F.
    February 26, 2009

    Funny thing is that in his Atlas, Adnan Oktar/Harun Yahya (that second name means something really indecent in Russian by the way), doesn’t mention his long held belief that evolution is a Freemason/Zionist conspiracy.

    I kid you not. Here’s the write-up with references:

    http://worldofweirdthings.com/2009/01/19/who-wants-to-be-a-trillionaire/

    Which brings me to the following question. If he’s editing his book to conceal his many mistakes, does that mean I can send him a Tiktaalik picture and collect those trillions and trillions of dollars he bet on the idea that there’s no such thing as transitional fossils? I mean he is after all being shown wrong so I could take him to court and sue him for fraud…

    I’ll settle for just a trillion dollars and don’t worry, I’ll only buy one or two Fortune 100 companies and give the rest to colleges, education and commercial space ventures.

  62. #63 Alex
    February 26, 2009

    PZ, how many revisions do you think he needs to make before the book becomes useful?

    I can think of one – a new title: “Kindling”

  63. #64 Jaycubed
    February 26, 2009

    “um… that caddis fly pattern is not called a fishing lure.
    It’s a dry fishing fly, used for fly fishing. Lures are used for spin casting, or bait casting setups. The weight of a lure, when cast, loads energy into the fishing rod. In fly fishing, the weight of the line loads the energy into the rod.”

    Newfie(fly fisherman)

    A fishing fly most certainly is a lure, as it is an artificial bait intended to lure fish into biting it.

    Lure 3: a decoy for attracting animals to capture: as a: artificial bait used for catching fish b: an often luminous structure on the head of pediculate fishes that is used to attract prey. (M-W)

  64. #65 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    Monty Python quotes?
    Listen, chum, my un-god is mightier than your un-god.
    And, by the way, he fucked your mum.
    Monty Python.
    Hmmmph
    Oh, Allah thinks you have nice tits.
    xxxxx

  65. #66 ChrisKG
    February 26, 2009

    PZ,

    Please auction those stupid books and give the proceeds to NCSE http://ncseweb.org/

    That’s the only thing good about them is that they can be sold as door stops.

    Chris

  66. #67 Rick T
    February 26, 2009

    Anthony K,
    Allah seems to be feeling a little randy today, huh.
    What, did he give the 72 virgins the day off or are they out getting their virginity re-calibrated? Can I assume he’s filling in for them?

  67. #68 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    That’s 72 on each penis, oh temporary lifeforms!
    Allah thinks you’ve got nice pecs
    xxxxx

  68. #69 catta
    February 26, 2009

    @Greg F.: No, Tiktaalik wouldn’t impress him. Not one bit. He’d claim that that’s a species that is untouched by evolution.

    Here’s why – Yahya’s idea of what a transitional fossil is is identical to that of Ray Comfort. No kidding. He wants to see a Crocoduck or a Yakfish or a Hippopotagnat, because he hasn’t the faintest understanding of what evolution is or how it works.

    I always thought that the whole thing about the pictures, while hilarious, is a bit of a moot point – it’s more interesting that he thinks evolution is wrong because he doesn’t understand that selective pressure can work against change.

    Anyway, Richard Dawkins explains it all very nicely:
    http://richarddawkins.net/article,3239,UPDATED-Richard-Dawkins-on-Harun-Yahyas-Atlas-of-Creation,Richard-Dawkins-Council-of-Ex-Muslims-of-Britain

  69. #70 Twin-Skies
    February 26, 2009

    @AnthonyK #9

    “I will pray for your miserable, damned souls.”

    It would have sounded more authentic if you said:

    “I will pray for you miserable infidels.”

    IMHO, the former sounds more like a Christian fundie. The “infidel” gives it a more realistic touch ;)

  70. #71 AnthonyK
    February 26, 2009

    Yes I am sometimes unsure which god exactly it is that I don’t believe in most.
    I wonder what religion God believes in hiomself….

  71. #72 Greg F.
    February 26, 2009

    @catta,

    I’ve written about how creationists have no clue when it comes to transitional fossils many times and I’m right there with you on their level of incompetent when it comes to the subject.

    But that wasn’t my argument. If Oktar is revising his book, it means that he knows he’s wrong or doing fraudulent things. Therefore, I can use it as an example of rigging a contest and breaching his contract by means of fraud.

    That’s the point. It’s not about proving evolution to a wall who things it’s a Mason/Zionist/Illuminati/Chunky Monkey Cult conspiracy. It’s nailing him on covering his tracks.

  72. #73 Greg F.
    February 26, 2009

    @AnthonyK,

    I wonder what religion God believes in himself….

    He’s an atheist. He’s heard how his name is invoked.

  73. #74 catta
    February 26, 2009

    @Greg: It would be great if that worked, but I suspect it isn’t illegal for him to redefine “transitional fossil” to his own ridiculous idea for the purpose of the “challenge”; also, his book is not related to the challenge, iirc.

    I’m guessing that if anyone were to point out the changes he made to the book, all you’d get out of him is “so what? Scientists change their mind all the time, look at Piltdown Man and the peppered moth and the embryo pictures! I just made corrections to be accurate. So there. There still aren’t any transitional fossils that fit my definition, neener neener neener etc.”

    …so I guess it’s exactly like proving evolution to a brick wall. Except the brick wall would have it figured out more quickly.

  74. #75 Greg F.
    February 26, 2009

    @catta,

    I don’t think it would work for him. We’re linking his changes to specific criticisms from the same people who are the authorities on what constitutes a transitional fossil. He’s an art student, not an authority so in the eyes of the law, following the judgment of the authority figures places him under their definitions of what is and isn’t a transitional fossil.

    If he refuses to admit a transitional fossil while correcting the Atlas as scientists point out his mistakes, he’s breached his contract, i.e. the rules of his contest.

  75. #76 efrique
    February 26, 2009

    AnthonyK says:

    I will continue to post this, without variation, until I have proved myself entirely correct.

    I laughed out loud somewhere I really didn’t want to.

    AnthonyK wins teh internets.

  76. #77 Lotharloo
    February 27, 2009

    He probably thought you must have forgotten him by now. Is there anything out of ordinary about an incredibly stupid guy with camel toes who offers 10000000000 dollars to anyone who proves him wrong? I would be shocked if you could remember his name after finishing the post.

  77. #78 Sili
    February 27, 2009

    What’s with all the hate for Bernoulli? Does he have a history here?

    I thought he meant was “But what is sure is no natural selection was involved” in the production of Teh Great Yahoo’s Atlas.