Pharyngula

Posted by: lynna | March 28, 2009 12:45 PM

Sign on a local church here: "The Big Bang, You Gotta Be Kidding."

Worse yet, sign advertising upcoming 4H Club meeting: "Intelligent Design Discussion"

No venue left untouched.

Posted by: AlexS | March 28, 2009 12:47 PM

Isn't that a Martin Luther quote?

Posted by: ambulocetus | March 28, 2009 12:48 PM

Well, there's one thing we can agree on. There is a church sign on my way to work that says, "To ignore god is the height of selfishness." I wish there was some way to reply to that non-sense. At least this sign would make me grin a little.

Posted by: Johnny | March 28, 2009 12:49 PM

It's a Martin Luther quote, PZ.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Posted by: Mark B. | March 28, 2009 12:53 PM

Yeah, PZ, I thought for sure this was from http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/ but they don't have that template, and don't allow you to put lettering on the stanchion. Hmm, the fact that it's a Martin Luther quote makes it more interesting than it should be.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | March 28, 2009 12:54 PM

it being a ML quote actually makes it worse: it's not even original or honest, it's just more rote memorization, and from such a vile source no less

Posted by: Kelreth | March 28, 2009 12:55 PM

It is saddening to see such a quote anywhere. Regardless of where it came from.

As an armchair philosopher that is particularly annoying.

Posted by: JamesR | March 28, 2009 12:56 PM

Back in the 70's I knew this Jewish woman. She used to say "Reason is the greatest gift God gave to man". I wonder if the christers got that message? Apparently NOT. Dumbasses. Couldn't read their way to comprehension of much of anything.

Uniquely interesting is the fact that we developed the power to reason on our own. No god needed.

Posted by: Zeno | March 28, 2009 12:58 PM

At last! A church makes a statement with which I can unreservedly agree. Amen!

AlexS: Yes, Martin Luther said something very like it. The quote is "Reason ... is the greatest whore that the devil has." I quote it in both German and English here.

Posted by: Kelreth | March 28, 2009 12:59 PM

Wait..wouldn't other faiths be more of a threat than reason? I mean other faiths cater to the same ideals of bowing before some deity. While reason would imply a completely different course of actions. So reason is the greatest enemy but other faiths are more dangerous.

Posted by: lynna | March 28, 2009 1:02 PM

Thanks to Zeno @18: Great quote from Martin Luther. Captures the attitude perfectly -- and illustrates the amount of Scary that seethes below the surface of the Church-goer's attitude. Holy Buckets!

Posted by: kamaka | March 28, 2009 1:03 PM

Ummm...yah...thanks for the warning, but I kind of knew that already...

Posted by: DJ | March 28, 2009 1:09 PM

You guys are scaring me. PZ, is this really such a prevalent problem? I mean, I know you are actively looking for these things but I've got to wonder if this is evidence of an epidemic of truly stupid Americans, or just a high level of exceptions to a reasonably intelligent population.

I sure hope it's the latter. Frankly you have me a bit scared for the future of science. I don't want to battle fundies all my life.

Posted by: lynna | March 28, 2009 1:11 PM

Interesting to see photos of Georges Lemaître, wearing his clerical colloar, standing next to Einstein. Georges Lemaître was a great mathematician, so his brain must not have been too damaged by cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: lynna | March 28, 2009 1:13 PM

That's supposed to be "collar" in post 28. Can't proofread on Saturdays, apparently.

Posted by: Dutchdoc | March 28, 2009 1:16 PM

#1 (and a few others): "I do not respect the idea"

You DON'T????

I do! Wholeheartedly!

They are absolutely right!

Reason IS the ultimate enemy of faith. No doubt about it.

And that's exactly why we should keep promoting reason!

And no, we shouldn't allow them to call themselves anti-reason. They're UN-reasonable!

The people who erected this sign are self-addmittedly UN-reasonable!

Posted by: efp | March 28, 2009 1:18 PM

My all-time favorite real church sign , from Terre Haute, IN:

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED
WE ARE NOT BORGS
WE ARE SOUTHERN BAPTIST

[sic]

Posted by: Dutchdoc | March 28, 2009 1:20 PM

I also would LOVE to ask the people who put up this sign:

"What's the reason you put up that sign?"

The only correct (to them) answer would be "No reason whatsoever" (which would be an obvious lie).

Any other answer would of course, per (their) definition be rather un-faithful! Or at least an attack on their own faith.

Posted by: (((Billy))) | March 28, 2009 1:21 PM

Odd how many theists attempt to witness atheists and other non-believers through 'reason.' "God must exist because X, Y, or Z" is a statement based upon reason, right?

Posted by: AdamK | March 28, 2009 1:22 PM

Absolutely true, and reason kicks faith's sorry ass every time.

Posted by: NewEnglandBob | March 28, 2009 1:25 PM

DJ @ 26 asks:

...I've got to wonder if this is evidence of an epidemic of truly stupid Americans, or just a high level of exceptions to a reasonably intelligent population.

Yes, this is due to a high level of ignorance and intolerance in America.

Read the recent book (2008):

"The Age of American Unreason" By Susan Jacoby

She writes about anti-intellectualism, anti-rationality and evangelical fundamentalism and where they originated in America.

Posted by: RamblinDude | March 28, 2009 1:39 PM

Complete, undisguised honesty? Is this a new tactic or did they just get confused for a moment?

Posted by: D. C. Sessions | March 28, 2009 1:45 PM

I trust that it's fair to say that the converse is also true.

Posted by: Zeno | March 28, 2009 1:47 PM

Thanks, chrisj. Yours is a better match.

Posted by: Olowkow | March 28, 2009 1:49 PM

...and truth and honesty are the greatest enemies of the religious, and vice versa.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | March 28, 2009 1:51 PM

facilis, the Martin Luther apologist. not really surprising, but pathetic nonetheless

Posted by: Angel Ventura | March 28, 2009 2:01 PM

Reason debunks faith, shows how silly faith can be I prefer trust my reason over ay faith

Posted by: fcaccin | March 28, 2009 2:13 PM

"Cognitive idolatry" is a lovely expression, mostly because it should be thought of as a bad thing, I surmise.
Besides, am I the only one to think that Mr. Luther often sounded like a mental case?

Posted by: Rey Fox | March 28, 2009 2:16 PM

"There is a church sign on my way to work that says, "To ignore god is the height of selfishness."

Sometimes people warning against selfishness are being sincere and helpful, but most of the time, I'd say keep an eye out for any hands in your pocket.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself | March 28, 2009 2:21 PM

"Don't make me hunt you down. God"

God lives in the bathroom of my parent's house. Every morning my dad would beat on the bathroom door and yell: "God, are you still in there?"

Posted by: Roger the Shrubber | March 28, 2009 2:32 PM

Um, how, exactly, did they reason their way to that conclusion? If there was no reasoning, then they are taking it on faith, but taking it from whom?

Posted by: David | March 28, 2009 2:33 PM

If the creationists eventually win a majority, I wonder how long it would take for the United States to become a third world power, dependent on other countries for basic science research? Not to mention, how long would it take before we couldn't fix our own machines?

Posted by: MRMAcrum | March 28, 2009 2:39 PM

Real Huh? Real Scary is more like it. I am going to poach this image.

Posted by: T_U_T | March 28, 2009 2:41 PM

Another stray thought: People who don't believe in science should not use tools and technologies that developed out of scientific research. For them to use cell phones, computers, etc., is extremely hypocritical.

that is the ministerial use of reason facilis wrote about.
Using reasoning and products of reason to destroy reason in the name of faith.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | March 28, 2009 2:52 PM

Here was an other joke that sadly backfired. In Slaughterhouse Five, Billy Pilgrim had a 'Ronald Reagan For President' bumper sticker.

Posted by: ckitching | March 28, 2009 2:57 PM

Some other nice quotes:
"But the Jews are so hardened that they listen to nothing; though overcome by testimonies they yield not an inch. It is a pernicious race, oppressing all men by their usury and rapine. If they give a prince or magistrate a thousand florins, they extort twenty thousand from the subjects in payment. We must ever keep on guard against them. " - Table Talk, pg863
"Idiots, the lame, the blind, the dumb, are men in whom the devils have established themselves: and all the physicians who heal these infirmities, as though they proceeded from natural causes, are ignorant blockheads."
"If [women] become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth--that is why they are there."
"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."

Yep, this Martin Luther fellow was a real pleasant fellow.

Posted by: Stacy | March 28, 2009 3:08 PM

At least they're honest about it. sigh...

Posted by: CRS | March 28, 2009 3:22 PM

As a former Arkansan (left with much fanfare at the age of 21 in 1991), I can affirm that sign sums up the majority view nicely. It does not make a gross generalization. I recall the minister of Open Door Baptist Church in Harrison, Arkansas stating that he believed English had been the original language, pre-Tower-of-Babel. WOW!

Slightly OT, we had one of those "Hell House" plays come to town. I was probably 14 y/o, way in touch with my gay side and already waging my war of reason with Xtianity. Yet I went out of curiosity. The point where a woman who had once had an abortion was thrown screaming into a fiery pit while her god-fearing mother was rewarded with a resurrected fetus/baby and the bitch smiles made me emotionally upset and sick to my stomach, but for reasons other than they intended. (She smiles at the baby in her arms???? Screw her daughter burning newly burning in hell I guess.) I can only imagine the effect it had on the true believer. Disgusting in the extreme. Great, now I need another xanax. Oh the memories...

Posted by: mike myles | March 28, 2009 3:36 PM

Well, that sign does speak for itself. I must say that it is a pleasure to have found your website. Good to see evidence of intelligent life on our planet. All too often I feel like a Star Trek character observing that "There are no intelligent life forms on this planet". Speak out against creationism. Speak up for evolutionary fact - step out of the closet as it were. Hopefully, there are more of us than meets the eye. Of course, we are vastly outnumbered, but we must take a stand. We are threatened - all of us - by zealots - zealots of all flavors. Though believers are threatened by reason, believers threaten civilization itself (think dark ages then multiply by religion and finally add nuclear weapons). I've always been of the opinion that the voice of God exists in believers heads. How must it feel to have God speak from within your head and for him/her/it to say "Its lonely in here." His voice echoes throughout the emptiness of their skulls - Hollow-be-thy-name. Again, happy to have found this place.

Posted by: Ryk | March 28, 2009 3:41 PM

I don't see it as a difference at all. I agree one hundred percent. People with reason have no faith in superstition. People who have faith in superstition have no reason.

The Fundies got this one right. Even a broken clock is accurate twice a day.

Posted by: LeeLeeOne | March 28, 2009 3:55 PM

#81/CRS - LOL! Ok you may not be a fellow "PsyD" but you still think like one! love your humor!

and ps

keep up the humor - all may be in desperate need

Posted by: LeeLeeOne | March 28, 2009 4:03 PM

Sorry, I should explain perhaps. I am "drowning" in the the current "great plains 2009 flood" (which includes limited battery time - writing pt notes by hand only to re-dictate when we have a working system). Yes, I join you in the recognition of Arkansas (I spent a spell there for my internship). There is a reason I said NO to AS and TX when I was done.

Posted by: ZK | March 28, 2009 4:22 PM

Priceless! :-)

Accurate too.

Posted by: www.10ch.org | March 28, 2009 4:38 PM

In today's reasoning society, such quotations are surely turning more and more people non-religious.

Posted by: www.10ch.org | March 28, 2009 4:40 PM

"Reason ... is the greatest whore that the devil has."
That is unreasonable.

Posted by: Facile Princeps | March 28, 2009 4:44 PM

@Susannah
"Whatever became of "Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord"? (Isaiah 1:18 KJV) Or "be always ready to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you ..."? (I Peter 3:15 KJV)"
I agree we should use reason. Martin Luther agrees.
"so it is with human reason, which strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it."
-On Justification CCXCIV
It goes back to what I was talking about ministerial and magisterial use of reason. You can't use reason against God and for the devil because that is idolatry.

Posted by: Citizen Z | March 28, 2009 4:48 PM

I think people often misquote Martin Luther on this. Luther distinguished between 2 uses of reason (ministerial vs. magisterial) that people take. The former is a reasonable position to take , the latter is tantamount to cognitive idolatry.

Yeah, and his distinction was crap. To say that "magisterial" use of reason is illegitimate is nonsense. And that argument is doing exactly what everyone here is criticizing these quotes for: it's an attempt to artificially limit the use of reason, to "block off" faith from reason. For obvious reasons.

Posted by: Monado | March 28, 2009 4:53 PM

Former Facilis [49], so it's reason as a propaganda tool, like science in service of Big Business and not business in service of Science? Gotcha.

When Martin Luther wrote, there was no Germ Theory, no psychiatry, no science of economics. Governments forbade Jews to own land and then cursed them for going into commerce. Kings routinely borrowed staggering sums of money from the Jewish community and then fomented persecution to kill them or drive them away instead of paying them. Anti-Semitism was a tool of the powerful and Martin Luther fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

Posted by: Susannah | March 28, 2009 5:00 PM

Facilis #92:

I agree we should use reason. Martin Luther agrees.
"so it is with human reason, which strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it."
-On Justification CCXCIV

Whereas I Peter speaks of a reason for faith, Luther writes of reason as a "Me, too!" device. That's apologetics, not reasoning.

You can't use reason against God and for the devil because that is idolatry.

Idolatry = worship of other "Gods". Are you saying that the devil is a god?

And why would you imagine that reason can be against God and still be for the devil? One is just a mirror image of the other. If no god exists, neither does the devil.

Posted by: Free Lunch | March 28, 2009 5:06 PM

I'm gathering his table talks were collected into book form at one point.

There may be other publications, but Vol. 54 of Luther's Works, the cooperative translation of everything* Luther wrote by the American publishing arms of the various Lutheran bodies, has Table Talks in it.

* The first 55 volumes apparently were only about a third of what Luther wrote, so Concordia Publishing House has decided to do some more. They would like you to subscribe to the next 20 volumes. Isaac Asimov, eat your heart out.

Posted by: LeeLeeOne | March 28, 2009 5:20 PM

Facilis, #92 - you may be a "survivor" but you are still one dumb fuck. And that is not meant in the nice way either. (Sorry to everyone - I quote from an anonymous source)

Posted by: Laser Potato | March 28, 2009 5:24 PM

"Please, Facilis, explain to us how we misunderstand Luther's hatred of Jews just like we misunderstand Luther's hatred of reason. I can use the laughs."
Because he says so, of course.

Because he says so, of course.

Posted by: Blair Talbot | March 28, 2009 5:28 PM

I am not religious (nor do I believe -- I'm agnostic), but I respect the idea of believing, of faith, although I've never experienced it. There IS such thing as a knowledge beyond knowing, a "knowing" in your bones that defys logic/ration/reason/explanation. I haven't experienced this, but my own seeking and asking questions of intelligent, educated believers who have has convinced me that they've experienced something real (or beyond real, even) and legitimate (and worthy of worship) that does indeed warrant disregarding "logic" (WHICH IS A TOOL, DEVISED BY MAN'S PERPETUALLY LIMITED RANGE OF KNOWLEDGE AND LIMITED EXPERIENCE... also continuously disproved throughout the ages, therefore the validity of its foundings is bound by it context -- ie, not immortal/undeniable/infinitely true and wise).

Don't ever forget that logic is just as guilty of idolization as a Christian/other god. Hubristic science can be more dangerous than worshiping God.

Posted by: uppity cracka | March 28, 2009 5:37 PM

Aren't they just reiterating what we've been saying all along? So it's agreed, then!

Blair Talbot-CAPS LOCK IS NOT A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT FOR PROFUNDITY

god, I'm fuckin sick of that.

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | March 28, 2009 5:44 PM

There IS such thing as a knowledge beyond knowing, a "knowing" in your bones that defys logic/ration/reason/explanation.

Posted by: T_U_T | March 28, 2009 5:47 PM

Concern trolls are seriously concerned again....

Posted by: CRS | March 28, 2009 5:54 PM

Ugh. I just saw on CNN that the army is paying a chaplain in Afghanistan $7,000 to preach teach soldiers about financial management. It was preaching, honestly. A chaplain? A chaplain?

The talking head said it was "amazing" that more people attended the lecture than Sunday worship. Maybe that should tell the chaplain and the army something.

Posted by: Kel | March 28, 2009 6:02 PM

At least they are being honest about it.

Posted by: Insightful Ape | March 28, 2009 6:07 PM

The troll known as Facilis, you need to pull your gawd out of a hat because you can't find him through reason.
Or are you a better Christian than Martin Luther?

Posted by: Insightful Ape | March 28, 2009 6:15 PM

Blair, I'd refer you to Dan Barker's book "Godless". As a former pentecostal preachers, he describes, not only did he used to have those same feelings, he can generate them at will if he decides even as an atheist. They mean absolutely nothing, other than that your mind can play tricks on you.
When people claim they KNOW something beyond reason/evidence,we have a word for that. We call them delusional.
By the way what is "hubristic science" anyway? Did you coin that phrase?

Posted by: Brutal Gourmet | March 28, 2009 6:28 PM

LeeLeeOne

WTF?

I'll join you in a xanax but I will up you 2 scotch on ice... any takers? what's your ante?

For me it is Booker's small batch bourbon, six drops of water and three poundings of my head upon the desk.

Posted by: eddie | March 28, 2009 6:38 PM

How many libertarians does it take to change a lightbulb?

No need for change. The market will make it work.

Posted by: Heather | March 28, 2009 6:49 PM

That church is for real all right. It even has a review.

From http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3709670980

Holy Spirit Filled Church-Beryl Baptist Church

By Michelle C.

"I love this church, have been attending there for 17 years and have grown closer to the Lord each year. We have a new pastor, John Lindsey and he is fired up for Jesus. Very inspirational and motivating friend and brother in Christ. We welcome all whom want to attend. God Bless You"

Posted by: George Atkinson | March 28, 2009 7:01 PM

Last year the local (Silver City, NM) Harvest Fellowship overlooked the alternative meaning:

ARE YOU THIRSTY
FOR GOD COME
DRINK OF THE
LIVING WATER

Posted by: anti-supernaturalist | March 28, 2009 7:26 PM

"Reason is the Devil's whore."

C'mon PZ if you're goin' to talk about fundies -- the least you should know is that Luther said it better 500 years ago: "Reason is the Devil's whore."

And where did Luther get "permission" to damn reason? Why from old Justification Paul . . . read on:

For 2,000 years one vile hallmark of xianity has remained its hatred of natural science (world) and of skeptical philosophy (reason). The Stoics and Epicureans of Athens laughed at Paul of Tarsus when he spoke to them (50-60 CE). Paul's anti-intellectual rejoinder is still holy writ:

20-Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22-Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23-but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles . . . . 1Cor1 20-23 NIV

In short, Paul and his fellow slum dwellers created a god glorifying their nihilistic valuations.

27-But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28-He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are . . . . 1Cor1:26-28 NIV

Xianity still appeals to those who believe themselves mistreated. To those in whom resentment surges. To those who must punish their guilty selves.

“Xianity is the practice of nihilism.” -- Nietzsche. Directed inward, hatred of self. Directed outward, hatred of others and of nature.

Unquenchable hatred arises not from some peripheral ideological source -- it spews from Paul's life-negating worldview, tarted up as the religion of "love".

anti-supernaturalist

Posted by: John Morales | March 28, 2009 10:55 PM

Phil in Santa Cruz:

Who among us does not enjoy attacking and ridiculing people whose beliefs differ from ours?

What I enjoy is ridiculing ridiculous beliefs. That they're different is incidental.

As for attacking beliefs, I only attack those I consider pernicious; whether they're different or not is not a consideration.

Posted by: Ted | March 28, 2009 11:21 PM

Hard to convince someone they are incorrect, if they deny reason, hehe.

Posted by: Kyla | March 29, 2009 12:02 AM

The sign is sad and scary. I consider myself a person who has spiritual beliefs. Beliefs that don't have any proof. However, I do not close my mind to the possibility that I am wrong. It is the "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up" kind of people that seem so pervasive in this country that frighten me. Unreasonable people are dangerous. People who refuse to accept overwhelming evidence that evolution is true, that the Bible (or Koran, or Torah) is the only book of worthwhile knowledge - these people choose ignorance. I don't understand how anyone can be proud of stupidity. How do the rest of us keep them from making policy in our society?

Posted by: JamesR | March 29, 2009 12:41 AM

Here is one more from Psalms

Psalm 119:66
The goodness of reason and knowledge teach me, For in Thy commands I have believed.

Like I've previously stated. They don't even know their way around their own book. How can they be trusted?

I don't enjoy attacking people but I sure do like attacking their faulty beliefs. Especially when there is a scientific component that can be used to prove that they are wrong.

Posted by: Bacopa | March 29, 2009 1:24 AM

Recovering Catholic: I don't know whether you're Grace Community Church in Houston, but I will point out that many Baptist megachurches in the Houston area breakaways from the liberal-leaning Texas Baptist Convention which has a woman president and has loosened its ties to the Southern Babtest Convention.

And yes, reason is indeed the enemy of faith. And reason tells us that we will not be free until we who reason gain the power to trample the faithful under our boots. We will exercise this power with more mercy and respect than they have shown us because we are better than them, but we must never forget what they have done and would do again if they had the chance.

Posted by: PeterKarim | March 29, 2009 2:38 AM

AMEN

Posted by: Tokorona Shinjitsu | March 29, 2009 4:02 AM

Well, reason kills faith. It's true. Faith does not need reason, and indeed, reason removes faith.

.. which is why it's possible to have both, just as long as you don't apply reason to your faith or faith to your reason.

.. but that requires duality. Some people can't really maintain that.

Posted by: Tom | March 29, 2009 5:48 AM

If not staggeringly stupid, then literally insane - the mind is fundamentally nothing but a reasoning device, albeit one that's a great less than 100% reliable. Without reason, there is no conscious thought at all, just dumb animal instinct and pavlovian induction.

Even the moron who put up that sign was trying (and, evidently, failing) to apply reason when he wrote the damn thing! What possible thought process, other than reason, could produce such an argument? When such a person gives a sermon, and tries to explain how we should emulate Jesus' alleged goodness or whatever, they're attempting to use reason!

Posted by: clinteas | March 29, 2009 6:40 AM

@ 131,

Who among us does not enjoy attacking and ridiculing people whose beliefs differ from ours?

Not many here,I would assume.

We ridicule ridiculous religious beliefs and obvious insanity.
A lot of atheists or commenters here,say,disagree on a lot of topics all the time,but then we debate,and ridicule has no place in a serious discussion between parties that disagree on an issue.

Project much?

Posted by: dave | March 29, 2009 10:45 AM

Arrgh! This is the second time I have stumbled across your site. Surprise! It still sucks. Not commenting on the sign, I agree with you it is ignorant, if real.

You, however, do not make informed comments. Your attempt at logic is sad and you foster simplifications and generalizations that are harmful to having any intelligent debate on any issues.

I truly believe you are doing more harm to atheism discussion than good. Pardon my grade school understanding of psychology here, but it seems as though you have some need to feed off the negative comments about the other side. You show yourself to be a small man. Don’t be so juvenile where does the anger/hate come from? Judging your photo you look to be in your 50’s so grow up. You could use and moderate your site as a real informative and sensible tool. What is empty inside you? Have you given though to the creature you are feeding? Ha ha, look at them. They is stupid!, seems to be the best you can come up with. With just A LITTLE thought I am sure you could make persuasive and logical arguments for atheism/evolution. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best.

Posted by: Laser Potato | March 29, 2009 12:20 PM

Shorter dave:
BAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW

Posted by: radioXwaves | March 29, 2009 1:38 PM

I have seen this exact phrase on the sign of a church near my sisters home in Pittsburgh PA. As of last week the sign read "If you are too open minded your brains will fall out"

Posted by: 'Tis Himself | March 29, 2009 1:43 PM

Dave,

Your concern is noted.

Posted by: rodneymcname44 | March 29, 2009 2:57 PM

Heh, truth-in-advertising is completely fine by me.

I find this to be hilarious though, is that bad?

- Rodney, Government Grants Consultant/Rep

Posted by: TKD | March 29, 2009 5:06 PM

I think the sign should read "Darwinian reasoning in the Anti-Christ"

Jeremiah 10:23

I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

Posted by: brightmoon | March 29, 2009 7:21 PM

im a christian ..just not a scientific illiterate
. just what i needed, to be associated with ignorant f**kwits ....some theists in this country are incredibly stupid ..they just don't think at all

sorry, if reason says that faith is wrong, i go with reason

the creationist pastor right across the street from me wonders why i'll say hello in the street, get into long friendly conversations with him and his wife, and NEVER go to his church .....it's unthinking idiotic stuff like this that i try to keep away from . and i REFUSE to support it by giving money

Posted by: Angela | March 29, 2009 9:05 PM

Regarding #150: OOOHHH the humanist of the year upset a guy named Dave. yeah, that's really going to make waves and make PZ beat his chest and regret everything he's ever said.

Posted by: Drosera | March 30, 2009 3:05 AM

Thinking Not Allowed

Morons Only

Posted by: astrounit | March 30, 2009 3:37 AM

Of course it's true. It perfectly highlights how mindless they've become. "Faith" to them is a is a nice shiny word, and they give it some vague positive associations. They don't know why.

As they will be the first to volunteer, they don't have to know why, and assert it with a senseless pride. All that matters is that it is to be mindlessly defended against attack by bad things like "reason". (And a host of other push-button 'bad words' like 'liberals' and 'atheists').

They are so void of reason and devoted to its antithesis that they don't know how irrational they are. They just don't understand you need reason to properly understand anything. It doesn't matter to them. It's "all a matter of faith" and they don't need to think about it. Thinking is too tough. They have faith that God takes care of all the thinking for them...

It's curious how fundamentalists will throw a fit when confronted with the suggestion that humans are thoughtful animals, when their faith does such a good job of turning them into the equivalent of mindless worms. Worms don't need reason either. God does their thinking for them, just as He does for the other sort.

Posted by: Katharine | March 30, 2009 9:45 AM

Fun fact: 40% of Americans are incapable of using logic.

They're stuck in the concrete operational stage.

I'm not kidding.

Posted by: Bunk | March 30, 2009 11:09 AM

I saw the same quote on an Alabama Baptist Church about a year ago. I started to take a picture of it, but decided it wasn't worth turning around. I guess I should have. As others have pointed out, you rarely find a profound truth on a church sign.

As a small-town Alabamian, I pass hundreds of churches on a drive of any length. You notice that the same messages are appearing on different churches as if there is some kind of rotation. There has to be a booklet, or a ministerial email forward of quotes going around. It's as if the only marketing tool they have left is the (occasionally) witty one-liner.

Are there any churches left without a storefront sign with changeable letters? 20 years ago the signs in front of churches simply stated times of worship and the pastor's name.

Posted by: Stanton | March 30, 2009 3:44 PM

Fun fact: 40% of Americans are incapable of using logic.

They're stuck in the concrete operational stage.

I'm not kidding.

3 out of every 10 Americans can not find Canada on a map.

4 out of every 10 Americans refuse to believe that I'm actually joking about the previous statistic.

Another 3 out of every 10 Americans believe that the annexation of Canada as the 53rd state is inevitable.

Posted by: kcs | March 30, 2009 10:18 PM

fyi, not all Christians are as dumb, or as hypocritical as the more outspoken make us seem. Some of the loud ones give us a bad name by comdeming others for faults of their own. We are all sinners, and many of them forget that they are too. (I believe that many of them have forgotten John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.") Just know that there are some intellegent, caring, non-hypocritcal Christians out there who realise that they fall short. We are called to love, not to condemn, some people forget that.

Posted by: Anon | March 31, 2009 11:59 AM

I grew up right down the road from Beryl :D Weird! I'm surprised to see most of the comments are degrading to religion, as opposed to my home state ^_^ I thought for sure I'd see the words "inbred" and "rednecks".
The hostility against religion is stupid. Individuals should be blamed for their actions. Blaming Christianity for violence or narrow-mindedness is like blaming GTA for school shootings. Besides, as long as there are humans there will be religion, its just how human nature works. Most Christians aren't bad people, they're just misled like everyone else is. Let's face it, as a species we've been kind of laugh out loud stupid since the get go, there are no superior groups.

Posted by: gundisalvus | April 2, 2009 1:54 AM

You could say I am an agnostic strictly speaking, but an atheist because it's the most reasonable position, even if untenable epistemologically. But before I'm either of the two I am a rationalist.

So, I think comments like "I can use the laughs" are useless, and demerit the rationalist position. Historical perspective is needed to explain why and exactly how wrong Luther's take on reason was. Let facilis point out history. What we can use afterwards is serious unbiased analysis, not cheap sarcasm.

Posted by: Derek Beggs | April 30, 2009 9:32 AM

how about

To ignore selfishness is the height of god.