…and this is a 
I never sign up for these things, but apparently many people think it's hilarious to give crazy right wing sites my email address, so part of my daily flood of email is crap from places like WorldNetDaily. Most of it just gets a filter entry and I never see it again, but I have a soft spot for WND — it's barking mad, full of the craziest deluded wackos with this strange sense that, since the Bush years, they represent the mainstream. I learn the wildest stuff from their mail.
Did you know that the Girl Scouts are out to turn your daughters into lesbians? It must be true, since WND says it is.
But here's a perfect example of the strangely twisted minds behind WND. In one section, the author is complaining about one of the books the Girl Scouts use, called Girltopia.
In the next age group, for teens in the ninth and tenth grades, girls are taught about wage disparities between the sexes, and a lack of assets and senior management positions held by women.
"Girltopia" poses the questions, "When women don't earn enough, what happens to their children?" and "How could everyone help create a Girltopia?"
Asked what the purpose of including a message of inequality served in the Girl Scout curriculum, Tompkins explained:
It's to show girls what's going on in the country and have them be part of the dialogue. A lot of girls just aren't aware of what's going on. I think that specific topic might be new this year, but in the broader scheme of things, it's not that new. I'm sure it's something that came up in the 1920s as well. Girls Scouting has been around since before women had the right to vote, so I'm sure these discussions were always part of this.
The text praises Renaissance author Sir Thomas More for his book "Utopia," Mary Cavendish for her book "A New World: The Blazing World" about a utopian kingdom and 24-year Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Planned Parenthood and feminist author Sheri S. Tepper for her novel, "The Gate to Women's Country."
"Girltopia" encourages girls to "let songs inspire you," and as some examples, it provides lyrics to songs such as "Independent Women, part 1" by Destiny's Child; "Hammer and a Nail" by the Indigo Girls - an "out" lesbian rock band; and "Imagine" by John Lennon. The curriculum also asks girls to create an avatar "to represent the ideal you in Girltopia" and features "Wild Geese," a short poem by lesbian poet Mary Oliver.
I read that and was thinking that, hey, I'd like to read that — and those sound like strong, positive messages to send out to girls. Be aware of the real problems you face, but stand up for what is right. Good stuff.
And then I read WND's assessment of the book…and it's exactly what makes these rascals such a bizarro mirror of the real world.
"This book was so depressing that I don't know what I would have done as a teen reading it," Garibay said. "The sense of hopelessness abounds in 'Girltopia.' The positivity, the enthusiasm and the vigor of youth is completely destroyed by data found to further the Girl Scout USA's feminist agenda. It plants seeds of despair and hopelessness in today's girls."
I don't quite see it. All I learn from WND is that conservatives are obsessed with lesbians, and somehow equate them with despair.
Comments
Posted by: Matt M | May 19, 2009 10:12 AM
It seems that these people are worried that our girls are not going to end up in the kitchen, and the bedroom. Instead, they are going to grow up strong and confident, in charge and on top. That must worry these guys a lot, probably because they have deep seated insecurities.
Posted by: stogoe | May 19, 2009 10:15 AM
Of course lesbians cause despair. They're living proof that not everything in the universe stands in awe and admiration of the Almighty Penis.
[/snark]
Posted by: Alex Deam
|
May 19, 2009 10:16 AM
"It plants seeds of despair and hopelessness in today's girls"
and
"I read that and was thinking that, hey, I'd like to read that"
are not mutually exclusive positions.
PZ, you're not a girl.
Posted by: DLC | May 19, 2009 10:16 AM
Right... and by the way, they have American Heritage Girls as a counter. Somehow I am reminded of the scene in The Great Escape where Flight Lt. Hendley (played by James Garner) is chatting with the guard, Werner (Robert Graf).
Werner says he was in the boy scouts, and Hendley says he was an eagle scout. Werner says he would also have been an eagle scout, except one day the nazis came in and said everyone now belonged to the Hitler Youth.
Posted by: Janine, OMnivore | May 19, 2009 10:17 AM
They do not like talk about the inequities between the genders because it might discourage the young girls from cheerfully embracing their big sky daddy ordained role as baby factories. And lesbianism is the most obvious way to turn from the role.
Posted by: Me | May 19, 2009 10:20 AM
"I don't quite see it."
Well, you didn't read the book did you? How could you have seen it if you didn't read the book?
Posted by: Seokso | May 19, 2009 10:21 AM
Yeesh, that article is filling me with despair.
Seems they're more worried about the girls' fragile faith. If the religion is so weak it could fall apart from the mere mention of Buddha or -horror of horrors- failing to mention jesus every minute, then they have much to worry about.
Posted by: mothworm | May 19, 2009 10:21 AM
So, it's not the oppression and inequality that are the problem, it's being told who your oppressors are and how you might fight them.
Sort of like how pointing out intolerance has become the worst form of intolerance; now providing a message of empowerment is just another way of rubbing your face in your oppression.
Posted by: Mike K | May 19, 2009 10:21 AM
@1 Matt M: basically stole my point there...
I hope my daughter grows up to laugh about anyone wanting to force gender roles on her.
Just imagine, she even gets to play with toy cars!!!
PS: and my son has a doll! We are all worried he will grow up to be gay!
... the world these people live in, it msust be terrifying
Posted by: Polling Station | May 19, 2009 10:28 AM
*Alert. Poll. Poll. Poll. Poll. Alert.*
Should Transpo allow atheist ads on its buses?
http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/45341562.html
Posted by: Siina Järvi | May 19, 2009 10:33 AM
Do these people ever stop to think why exactly it is even necessary to point out these things? They should just look in the mirror and see that they caused this in the first place. They shoudl also realise that the only reasonable thing to do is to bring girls up to be independent and strong women who act to be treated equally, instead of making them women who quietly accept their fate when men tell them to shut up and spread their legs for the Almighty Penis and beat them up if they don't bear baby boys.
Posted by: Bachalon | May 19, 2009 10:36 AM
That's a great poem.
Posted by: shen | May 19, 2009 10:38 AM
Sounds like a pretty good book, i am considering buying it for my 10 year old daughter. Wish it was at Amazon so i could see inside...
Anyone have any better recommendations?
Posted by: Pablo | May 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Of course they don't. Come on, you women got the right to vote 90 years ago. Now what are they complaining about? This isn't 1950 anymore. We even support women who get jobs (so long as they don't act like that is more important than their wifely duties).
Posted by: Geds | May 19, 2009 10:40 AM
To be fair to the conservative wackos, I spend a bit of my time obsessed with lesbians, too.
I, um, I don't have quite the same outcome, though...
Posted by: Laurie | May 19, 2009 10:45 AM
Yes, according to WND, it is clearly much better for girls to have a false impression of the world and the lack of obstacles they may face. What they probably really mean is that it is better for girls not to worry their pretty little heads over such things as equality. It is so much easier for everyone when girls and women happily embrace a subservient role, isn't it?
I remember as a girl (albeit in a very different era -- the 70s) thinking the unequal roles of the sexes was blindingly obvious and terrible, yet no one ever seemed to acknowledge how awful it was. Far from being depressed by feminist thought, I was always thrilled when someone actually called the gross sexism that surrounded me what it was.
The truth shall set you free, as the Christians say. Why shield girls from difficult facts that they will encounter anyway?
Posted by: MPG | May 19, 2009 10:48 AM
So...wanting to destroy young girls' hopes and prevent them from achieving equality...is part of the "feminist agenda"? DOES NOT COMPUTE! *head asplode*
Posted by: Pablo | May 19, 2009 10:48 AM
Well, you know that ignorance is bliss, right?
It's kind of a Flowers for Algernon thing.
Posted by: eric | May 19, 2009 10:55 AM
Gate was a good book (unsubtle but still worth it as a story). I thought she did her best with Grass and Raising the Stones - those were excellent. However I don't think I'd recommend many of Tepper's more recent works - same social message(s), but far more tedious stories. Just my personal opinion.
Posted by: Janine, OMnivore | May 19, 2009 10:55 AM
As an other child of the seventies, I remember some of the televised debates between supporters of the ERA and the Stop ERA. Even as a kid, I though some of the arguments that the anti-ERA women trotted out were silly. The one the stuck to be through all of the decades was that they did not want their girls to grow up and carry rifles. All I could think was; but it is alright for the boys to do so? I guess I thought of those women as alien beings.
Posted by: Victor
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May 19, 2009 10:58 AM
Depressing? So, I guess the answer is to never acknowledge anything that may upset anyone. Theists, they embrace ignorance like it's a virtue.
Posted by: Ick of the East | May 19, 2009 10:58 AM
Thin Mints lead to Lesbianism.
And I'm OK with that.
Posted by: Cathy W | May 19, 2009 10:59 AM
Tompkins is right that this kind of discussion went on right from the start - the first Girl Scout troop in the US caused a scandal by (gasp) playing basketball in public, where anyone walking by could see their knees! (They were eventually forced to put curtains up around the court when they played, but didn't stop playing.)
When I was a Scout leader, I didn't use Girltopia - the program was revised in the last couple years, and I think this book is new - but it seems to fit really well with one of the basic ideas of the Girl Scout program: "Find a problem. Fix it." The only reason to respond to the existence of a problem with hopelessness and despair is if you've been taught there's nothing you can do about it - and that's exactly the opposite of what girls should be learning about sexism.
(The Girl Scouts also don't witch-hunt for lesbians and atheists; another reason they're on WND's hitlist?)
Posted by: Sniper | May 19, 2009 11:06 AM
It plants seeds of despair and hopelessness in today's girls.
See, because telling girls the truth about petty little things like the wage gap, sexual assault, and systemic sexism hurts their mushy little girl-brains and makes them unhappy. Better to lie to them - they'll never figure it out on their own.
Posted by: Richard | May 19, 2009 11:09 AM
The WND article concludes by highlighting the alt-Girl Scouts: American Heritage Girls. It says that group's mission is:
and this is where the girls will
I've never been impressed by the slavish philosophies behind "servant-leadership." It's such a transparent case of newspeak seeking to rationalize submission :/
Posted by: Revyloution | May 19, 2009 11:11 AM
I was almost kicked out of the Boyscouts.
For eating Brownies.
Posted by: Katsu | May 19, 2009 11:11 AM
I actually used to be in the GSA, and I'm glad to know that their message has continued to be progressive and feminist, even if I'm starting to wonder about the quality of the non-thin mint cookies. Since the entire point of the organization is to help girls become the leaders (and also kick-ass career women or moms or whatever they dream to be) of tomorrow, I'm glad they're looking at relevant issues.
Or maybe that's just easy for me to say since I escaped without becoming a hairy, granola-eating lesbo. :P Cause you know, that's where feminism leads you. Straight into comfortable shoes and sensible haircuts.
Posted by: catgirl | May 19, 2009 11:14 AM
Essentially they are saying that we should lie about reality to teenagers (not even children), because it might make them feel sad. I'm sure it's just a flimsy excuse for wanting to boycott any work done by a lesbian.
Posted by: James Sweet | May 19, 2009 11:16 AM
I hope someday BSA will follow their lead. I had a pretty good experience in Boy Scouts, despite the fact that the troop I was in was affiliated with my parents' church, and I would love for my son to have a similar experience... but I can't in good conscience send him to an organization with such backward positions on homosexuality, and where he would have to lie about his parents' beliefs (BSA explicitly disallows agnostics and atheists). Luckily, we've got another decade before my son will be old enough, so maybe they will change by then..
[Yes, I know there are theoretically secular alternatives to BSA... but not within 100 miles of where I live :( ]
Posted by: Jackal | May 19, 2009 11:19 AM
As someone who prescribes to the "feminist agenda," I don't see what we would have to gain from planting the "seeds of despair and hopelessness in today's girls." Sexism is so pervasive in our society that we don't even recognize it most of the time. Case in point: Iron Man (2008), discussed here. This book sounds like a great primer for everyone who wants to be more aware of gender inequality in the USA. Remember, the first step to recovery is admitting we have a problem.
Posted by: Darren Garrison | May 19, 2009 11:19 AM
I, for one, welcome our new Girl Scout lesbian overl... what, Chris Hansen? You want me to have a seat where?
Posted by: red rabbit | May 19, 2009 11:20 AM
I think PZ just wanted to improve the bacon/lesbian balance in the comment thread.
I found Girl Guides to be a waste of time. In my area it was clique-ish, and the badges girls got were for sewing and setting tables.
I was much more interested in climbing trees and building forts, which I did with the local boys. I'd be glad to see this sort of change in programme. After all, it's been widely shown that educating women is the surest way to end poverty.
Posted by: Nightsky | May 19, 2009 11:24 AM
I remember being aware of the wage gap as a kid (in the Eighties), but it didn't fill me with despair and hopelessness. It filled me with resolve.
And it's not the anti-feminists who pointed out to me the sexism I was absorbing without even being aware of it--I spent years convinced I was bad at math, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary--it was the feminists.
When my mother told me about having been groped at one of her jobs, and not hired for another job because she hadn't had her kids yet, I was notably not filled with despair and hopelessness. I went, "Wow. Astonishing. Thank Ghod it won't happen to me."
It's fashionable to make fun of First Wave feminists, but really I owe them a debt I can never repay. It was them being shrill and humorless that got us workplaces without casual sexism. It was them being uppity ball-busting bitches that meant I could get an engineering degree and not have to worry about not being hired because I didn't have kids yet.
Posted by: rrt | May 19, 2009 11:25 AM
Gotta echo some other comments...the WND author totally went into "don't worry their pretty little heads" mode there. Claiming it's bad to point out inequality between the sexes because then that knowledge will depress girls doesn't seem to me to be a winning strategy these days. The truth will set you free...and you wouldn't want THAT, would you? All that depressing thinking and decision-making...
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 19, 2009 11:36 AM
Thin Mints lead to Lesbianism.
When one of my relatives was on the board of directors of the local planned parenthood, one of their fundraisers was selling "condommints," thin mints shaped and wrapped up like condoms.
That relative was heterosexual at the time of that fundraiser. She is now a lesbian. So, yes, it's quite obvious to me that thin mints do lead to lesbianism.
Posted by: lefthandhexnut | May 19, 2009 11:37 AM
my niece is not a scout, but I will make sure she gets hold of these books
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 11:38 AM
The Mormons in my neck of the woods solved the problem of Boy Scouts turning into homosexuals long ago. The church simply incorporated the Boy Scouts into their Bishop-defined "callings" for male church members. So guys can be "called" to be Boy Scout masters. Wait...this hasn't always worked out. There have been several scandals related to sexually abused boys within the program. Oh well, for a minute there I thought I had the answer for those lesbian-leaning girls.
Posted by: wheatdogg
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May 19, 2009 11:45 AM
Can anyone think of anything that the yokels at WND are NOT afraid of?
The GSA will turn girls into lesbians. Right. Next they'll be saying a black president will lock up all the white Christians in concentration camps ...
Oh, wait ... they said that already.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | May 19, 2009 11:56 AM
Zounds! Surely we can't let girls learn about self-reliance, hard work, and hands-on interaction with the world (hey, aren't those all things conservatives claim to support?) from lesbians?!?!
OTOH...
Damn atheistic communism!
One of the most interesting things I've observed in recent years was during the summer of 2006, when then-senate-candidate Ned Lamont was attending a street festival in Willimantic, CT. Lamont sat in on keyboards with one of the bands playing the event for a couple of songs, culminating with his playing and singing "Imagine." Of course, he was explicitly running as an anti-war liberal candidate, but even so, I thought it was brave of any U.S. politician to sing that song. As it happened, no video of the event showed up in opponents' ads... but it's not hard to (you should pardon the expression) imagine how it could be used.
Posted by: mattand | May 19, 2009 11:58 AM
Does anyone have some good sources for debunking the whole "lesbian agenda" bullshit? The Wikipedia articles are fairly informative, but I'd like to gather some more.
A guy I sometimes work with unloaded that whole spiel on me last week. He's got some major axes to grind regarding the subject (very active with BSA and a born again conservative) and, having never heard of this "conspiracy", didn't really know enough to offer an informed rebuttal.
Well, I did laugh out loud at the phrase "Girl Scout's lesbian agenda" but that just seemed to spur him on.
TIA
Posted by: Kate | May 19, 2009 12:03 PM
I'm a Scout, a lifetime member (just got my 25-year pin not too long ago) and I can safely say that I've never ever even so much as once looked at another girl...
Well okay. Maybe just the once...
And she was in Boy Scouts, with her brothers.
Heeeeey...BOY SCOUTS is turning girls into lesbians!
Posted by: Interrobang | May 19, 2009 12:03 PM
Pretty much every antifeminist of any stripe out there figures that the only reason women become feminists in the first place is because they're (ugly) lesbians. See, if a woman actually liked men, she wouldn't be one of those (perforce man-hating) feminists. Because everybody knows that hating a male-dominated system of oppression is exactly the same as hating (individual) men...
Anecdotally, that's nutzoid, because I'm about the closest thing to a seriously radical feminist as one can be without being either an academic or a female separatist, and I actually have male friends, and even a boyfriend. *gasp* I also think PZ is so cute he should be available in six-packs at convenience stores everywhere, but that's tangential. :)
I will, however, cop to sensible shoes, but you would too if you had cerebral palsy and arthritis in your feet. (You'll wind up with arthritis in your feet if you keep walking around in those bloody high-heeled shoes, though, folks... I don't recommend arthritis; one star, would not purchase again, customer service sucks.)
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 12:11 PM
I'll add to the recommendations for good poetry: anything by Sharon Olds.
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 12:21 PM
Re my Sharon Olds recommend @#43: Her poetry is not suitable for most ten year old girls -- too much explicit eroticism in some cases. But it's great for self-aware teenagers. See
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poet.html?id=5124
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 12:33 PM
Excerpt from a Sharon Olds poem, nice combo of poetry and science:
and the shampoo, mild soldier,
take her by the shoulders and pour the gold eel on your head.
Then feel them going:
salp, chitin, diatom, dulse, the
blind ones of the ocean.
[excerpted from "Outdoor Shower"]
Posted by: Roy | May 19, 2009 12:36 PM
Did anyone else get forwarded to a fairly skeptical article after submitting the suggestion form?
It seemed very strange that submission to Oprah would kick you to an article critical of her...
hacked? I hope so.
Posted by: Teleprompter
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May 19, 2009 12:40 PM
I don't equate lesbians with despair -- just bacon.
Posted by: Endor | May 19, 2009 12:40 PM
"The positivity, the enthusiasm and the vigor of youth is completely destroyed by data found to further the Girl Scout USA's feminist agenda. It plants seeds of despair and hopelessness in today's girls."
Cue wingnut translator: It doesn't teach women they are worthless aside from having and taking care of my babies, therefore it's bad.
Posted by: Lance
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May 19, 2009 12:46 PM
Oh no!! Learning about such things as yoga and world peace?! Those are terrible. Touching your toes and having happiness are so overrated. As a person who cannot touch his own toes, I DID relate those two subjects. :)
Posted by: Watchman | May 19, 2009 12:57 PM
Laurie @ #16:
Exactly. It's an example of the Barbara Bush "So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" school of denial, which is admired and emulated by top conservatives all across this great nation.
Posted by: Michelle R
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May 19, 2009 1:04 PM
...despair and hopelessness? You mean, the despair they'll feel when they realize they have to be human beings, think for themselves and not be baby-popping slaves to their husband?
I can understand that. Thinking for yourself and taking control of your life and body is a huge responsibility.
Posted by: Jess T
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May 19, 2009 1:09 PM
I'm obsessed with lesbians, but I certainly don't equate them with despair.
Posted by: Drew | May 19, 2009 1:09 PM
I think this is the first time I've ever gone to WorldNetDaily and actually been pointed to something cool: their "Evolution Watch" section now has a link to the big new fossil find, Ida, which I hadn't yet heard about. Bad news for them, I suppose. Though I'm not sold on how the fossil is being sold to the media: yet another round of "missing link" palm-to-forehead slapping.
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 1:15 PM
Punishment for speaking up for women:
“We are trained not to see male privilege.”
to be silent is to participate in an abuse of authority and to damage the community that I care about.’” I believe that the present structure of the church damages women's sense of worth.”
- Margaret Toscano; excommunicated BYU professor
Posted by: Lynna | May 19, 2009 1:23 PM
Lesbians are dangerous if only because they are more likely to stray from the ordained roles. Hence the "despair" that wingnut daily would prefer that lesbians experience. Hence also the constant yammering on about the right and god-given roles for women. Maybe if they repeat that crap often enough, we will believe it? Right, that'll work.
Posted by: PixelFish | May 19, 2009 1:28 PM
Well, crap, I must've done something wrong, since I spent ten years as a girl scout and have got no lesbian action whatsoever.
Lynna: I loved Sharon Old's poetry. The first one I happened on was The Connoisseuse of Slugs.
I also note that Sherri S. Tepper's Gate to Women's Country got a mention. The weird thing is I had to discover these on my own. At the time Girl Scouts wasn't even close highlighting these kinds of materials. In fact, it felt hopelessly retrogressive for a while, although that might have been a factor of my troop being in Utah. So I'm glad to see these new-to-me materials being given to the girls.
And I'm glad to see the Girl Scouts Organisation itself reconsidered the inclusion of materials and activities directly relating to God. One thing the Girl Scouts definitely did for me was introduce me to a lot of people who had different faiths than me--something of a small feat in the most Mormony parts of Utah. It's good to see them go one step further and remove the focus on God, and return the focus to the girls themselves.
Posted by: JarrodB | May 19, 2009 2:01 PM
I like the girl scouts. It's a separate organization from the homophobic, religious boy scouts and it encourages feminism and equality.
Posted by: rationalhumanbeing | May 19, 2009 2:28 PM
One could/should report the WND to Google as it is very anti-homosexual and intolerent of "other religions", which is against their AdSense/AdWords policies.
"Content related to racial intolerance or advocacy against any individual, group or organisation"
Posted by: Kagehi
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May 19, 2009 3:10 PM
They won't. At one time they where merely "associated" with the local churches, to the discomfort of some people wanting to join them. Now, they are owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the Mormons, as I understand it, and their once wishy washy view of who was the "right sort" to be a member has become far less wishy washy. In fact, in all but rare cases, its become strict anti-"anything not Christian". And, of course, every attempt to create an alternative has been attacked, not the least by government officials, which "endorse" the idea that its still the nice old national youth group, and not a borderline hate group. Not sure Werner's commentary on the Eagle Scouts, and by extension, the Boy Scouts, is all that inaccurate. I have no doubt what so ever that the newest neo-nazi, white power, but nice as hell about being such, so they don't look so crazy as they used to, types are sending their kids to the local Boy Scouts, in those areas where bigotry is rampant, and they know there won't be too many non-white kids (or any) in the troop. The whole system has been poisoned, but, nothing stops them from poisoning the "local" branches even more, especially now that the SOP of such hate groups is to do everything they can to not **look like** hate groups, or **sound like** hate groups, until you are far enough inside their net that they can tell you the "bigger truths", instead of picking at little minor infractions and perceived injustices, to hook you.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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May 19, 2009 3:11 PM
On the contrary. I suspect that you have the same "outcome" as many conservatives when thinking about lesbians. They're just more ashamed of it.
Posted by: Alex Deam
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May 19, 2009 3:56 PM
1. Lesbians are a violation of the will of God.
2. Bacon.
3. Therefore God does not exist.
Posted by: O.P.E | May 19, 2009 4:10 PM
Delurking for a quick anecdote. I was a boy scout in Utah, and it is complete run by the mormons. In response to #59, it's not just anti-non christian, they are fairly uncomfortable with other christians. I was onced asked to say the prayer before a meeting, and after a quick sign of the cross(catholic at the time) I was never asked to do it again.
Posted by: O.P.E | May 19, 2009 4:14 PM
Damn, that was a mess of spelling errors. I guess I should stick to lurking.
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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May 19, 2009 4:19 PM
Because of a few typos? Naaw.
Posted by: Otto
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May 19, 2009 4:38 PM
Whatever the wing nuts say, support the girl scouts!
Today's brownies will be tomorrows cookies.
Posted by: Chgo_Liz
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May 19, 2009 4:51 PM
Notice how if there's any "dirt" on a woman listed it's used as an adjective: lesbian poet, lesbian rock band...Tepper makes it in with "feminist"...leading me to assume that all the other women are white, straight, not publicly known for their feminist stance, & at least nominally Christian/Jewish. So, even in their complaint, most of the role models cited are exactly the sort of woman they say they want girls to grow up like.
Janine & Laurie, I worked on the ERA at the national level. I never could understand why those 24 words (in the first part: following parts were boilerplate about enactment) were so frightening for people. Schlafly's arguments revolved around the following fears: there would be unisex bathrooms, women in combat, husbands would no longer be solely responsible for supporting their wives, and gays would be allowed to marry.
No ERA, but we got all of that ANYWAY.
*stomps off muttering under her breath*
Posted by: Laurie | May 19, 2009 5:42 PM
Hey chgo_liz,
Thanks for your work on the ERA! Even though it didn't pass, the whole debate was both inspiring and an eye-opener for girls like me (born 1971).
Posted by: eintob | May 19, 2009 5:42 PM
Hmm... For an organization so allegedly rife with lesbianism and deviant agendas, my daughter sure has to listen to an awful lot of god talk/songs each meeting!
Posted by: Snarla | May 19, 2009 6:36 PM
When I was a girl scout thirty-plus years ago, our handbook had a page devoted to the importance of making the bed and a two-page spread on cute ways to fold and wear your bandanna. I really hope today's girl scouts get better material than that.
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | May 19, 2009 6:49 PM
Nightsky: just a small factcheck for you. We 1970s hairy-legged man-hating lesbians in sensible shoes who campaigned for bodily autonomy and workplace and legal equality were the Second Wave. The First Wave was the indecently bloomer-clad man-hating nutcases who chained themselves to railings and haha, thought ladies should vote and ride bicycles, and even keep their property when they married.
I suppose that Mary Wollstonecraft and Susan B Anthony and so on must have been the zeroth wave. I eagerly await the Third Wave.
Posted by: Piltdown Man | May 19, 2009 7:44 PM
Sir (aka St) Thomas More was a staunch defender of the Faith who consigned Lutherans to the flames and was martyred by Henry VIII.
He wrote Utopia as a satire.
Stupid leftards.
Posted by: boom | May 19, 2009 7:48 PM
I also await the Third Wave, Cath. I'm sick of HEARING about it and seeing, well, nothing.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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May 19, 2009 7:53 PM
Stupid godbotter who can't show physical evidence for his imaginary deity...Posted by: Jay F | May 19, 2009 8:14 PM
If WND wants something really depressing have them sit through a semester's worth of ecology and ornithology. Then give them a week of lectures devoted to habitat loss and its effect on bird populations.
I really really took to my ornithology course work, I now am extremely interested in birds, but I felt like every time I left both ornithology and ecology I had the feeling that we are driving the biosphere around like a red ferari, and neglecting the brick wall we are about to run it into.
Posted by: Janine, OMnivore | May 19, 2009 8:38 PM
Sir (aka St) Thomas More was a staunch defender of the Faith who consigned Lutherans to the flames and was martyred by Henry VIII.
And poor little Hoax is powerless to do the same to all of the heretics who come to this site.
Stupid wannabe torturer.
Posted by: john | May 19, 2009 8:43 PM
If these guys think thatGirls Scouts is bad they should check out Girl Inc. A very good progressive and SECULAR group that teaches girls to be strong, smart and bold. My wife and I taught science, math and related technologies and tutored there.
They do alot of good and we have worked side by side with the Girl Scouts. My suggestion is that you support these groups if they are in your area and give them, not money but some knowledge of your beliefs and background. It will do some good.
ok, off of the soapbox and back to the works.
Posted by: adam | May 19, 2009 9:52 PM
Reminds me of a great bumper sticker for some reason...
I got kicked out of the Boy Scouts for eating a Brownie.
Posted by: wheatdogg
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May 19, 2009 10:35 PM
Puts a new spin on the old Tom Lehrer lyric:
"And you come across a Girl Scout who is similarly inclined
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared,
Be prepared!"
Posted by: Paper Hand | May 20, 2009 1:08 AM
Man, I read that article. It's astonishing. Even though they're presumably quote-mining to support their claims about Girl Scouts being such a horrible group, none of it sounds bad at all! The quotes that were presumably meant to incite anger in their readers all sounded pretty reasonable to me!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 20, 2009 1:16 AM
Pilty may have a point about Utopia (though More's satirical intentions aren't as clear as one might think) but I do wonder what Girltopia has to say about it, and in what way More's work is "praised." WingNutDaily is not the most reliable or scrupulously honest source of information on the toobz.
Furthermore, the unqualified way in which More is mentioned in the article - as if Utopia equated to Mein Kampf, as opposed to Gulliver's Travels - makes me strongly suspect that the writer, Chelsea Schilling, is at least as clueless about the satirical nature of Utopia as the Pilty's "leftards."
Posted by: Kseniya | May 20, 2009 1:34 AM
Paper Hand: Yes, that's exactly it. The culture gap. Look at all the "horrible" things we're teaching girls about these days: "... stone labyrinths, world peace, global warming, yoga...".
The message? Anything that's not white-bread Christianity is corrupt, anti-American, and - get this - intolerant.
Of course the author notes - accurately, if inappropriately - that the Indigo Girls are openly gay. Never mind that the song in question, "A Hammer and a Nail", is a wonderful song about hard work and self-empowerment. Gotta raise that "gay" alarm, yes sirree!
One of the great ironies here in the USA is that a popular 4th of July concert number, one that features stirring melodies, militaristic themes, and real live cannons (if it's done right) is the 1812 Overture, which was composed by homosexual Russian.
Posted by: Susan Silberstein
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May 20, 2009 2:44 AM
This former Girl Scout would not offer Thomas More as a role model, unless a champion and personal instigator of imprisoning and burning "heretics" is someone girls should look up to.
Posted by: Ben | May 20, 2009 8:30 AM
The bottom line is that, generally speaking, it's not the content itself that is positive and energizing or negative and discouraging for a kid. It's the combination of the material and the type of support around the child.
Children don't come out of the womb as self-assured educated adults. They get assurance from their family and social group, and education from the same as well as their school. I can believe that for the author of the review cited, in her social group, such negative statements could be despairing. A focus on the "norm", a lack of diversity in world-views, and a strong need to belong could all contribute to that type of view.
PZ, hope that helps you understand how such a review can come about.
Posted by: Kseniya | May 20, 2009 10:05 AM
Ben: In other words, the author is narrow, shallow, insular, and wants everyone else to be the same way. However, people like her rarely show enough restraint to avoid scaring their children with tales of how the Liberal Bogeyman wants to take away all their
toysguns.Posted by: Nightsky | May 20, 2009 10:09 AM
Cath@70: I am chastened and informed. Thank you, and thanks again for fighting.
Posted by: Lotharloo | May 20, 2009 10:14 AM
So, the girl scouts make girls lesbians, boy scouts make boys gay and the mixed scouts make them fornicators. I suppose their solution is to ban all human contact, put girls in garbage bags as Islam does and whenever a guy gets horny, find a random girl in the neighbourhood and marry them together, a perfect religious solution.
Posted by: Howard Gray | May 20, 2009 1:58 PM
I'm so confused.... Bacon=Lesbianism????
is it because the are both fun to eat, but ultimately bad for you????
will have to forward this thread to the Wingnut Republi/Demo-tard Daily.NET to see what Jebus would have said(well the OT pre-dates the NT and both names begin with J and B comes before S so that gives the former more legitimacy...doesn't it...) but now I am really worried, because I ate bacon before this insidious plot was shown to me so clearly by the postings here. I guess what I am wondering, is because I ate bacon and brownies, how long do I have before I become a lesbian???
Terrified old white guy
please help.
Posted by: Susan Stanko
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May 20, 2009 2:52 PM
I think it is already to late for you.
Posted by: Alex Deam
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May 20, 2009 5:19 PM
Zing!
Posted by: Thunderbird5 | May 25, 2009 3:51 PM
As a 70s London kid, I went to Woodcraft Folk youth groups. Despite the pastoral name, its a left-wing organisation, formed in response to the imperialist Scout movement and strongest in industrial areas. My family were from rural Cornwall but unemployment (Bodmin had the highest UK rate in 74) drove us to London. We were lucky to get a house on a 30s-built council estate (project), where the cottage-style houses were still largely inhabited by the working-class families who'd escaped the slums. The social structure from those streets still prevailed (certainly compared to the alienating tower-block lifestyle). I think I was truly priviledged to be a part of such a neighbourhood.
Anyway, our Woodcraft Folk group was mostly kids from the estate: the Guides and Scouts were from the owner-occs on the other side of the main road. We went to the same school - something of a leveller - but your youth group was a signifier. We were proud of our group and its principles have stayed with me. Now back in Cornwall, my brother's kids go to Woodcraft Folk in the nearest town. The emphasis on social equality, multi-cultural understanding and community effort still prevails and I'm glad to see how my nieces have thrived on the WF's antidote to consumerist, anti-intellectual girlygirlism.
My school friend described to me why she left the Girl Guides after a year (age 11-12). She'd had no encouragement to take the Writer's badge despite her obvious talent and it took several months of badgering before they grudgingly sent off her work for adjudication. Brown Owl preferred the troop to do badges together, so in that year of 1978 they were prepared and examined for their badges. Flower Arranging, Crafts (macrame) and Needlework.
The Scout movement has come a long way. And so, in their inimitable manner, have WND - although how they ever got their hands on that time machine is a mystery.
Posted by: Kseniya | May 25, 2009 8:58 PM
Interesting story, Thunderbird5. Thanks for sharing.