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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
…and this is a pharyngula stage embryo.
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Remember, the German people are the chosen of God. On me the German Emperor, the spirit of God has descended. I am His sword, His weapon, and His vice-regent.
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More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
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Category: Humor
Posted on: June 23, 2009 4:49 PM, by PZ Myers
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Comments
Posted by: Qwerty | June 23, 2009 4:55 PM
Coming soon to your megamall: The Gaps
Posted by: Kausik Datta | June 23, 2009 4:57 PM
Can I get that on a t-shirt? That would be awesome!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 23, 2009 4:58 PM
Damn that's good.
Posted by: Richard Harris
|
June 23, 2009 5:03 PM
The gaps are ever narrowing, & getting fewer in number. Too bad, as far a the god-besotted goobers are concerned, that there's still a long way to go, (if ever), before they're all closed.
The compensation is that the challenge is intellectually exciting.
Posted by: Bjørn Østman | June 23, 2009 5:04 PM
Haha, this should be widely distributed. Blog it, all.
Posted by: Brock | June 23, 2009 5:04 PM
Hehe, score another one for Jesus & Mo! One of my favorite comics for a reason :) Jump back through the archives for the Irony Meter cartoons, those made me laugh too.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
|
June 23, 2009 5:05 PM
Plenty of gaps exist, and there will be many in the future.
God still won't be living in any of them.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
|
June 23, 2009 5:11 PM
Will pay handsomely?
That God; always promising pie in the sky: "You'll be rewarded in my Heavenly Kingdom. Where? Um, in the clouds. Would you believe it's invisible? Something more tangible, huh? I'd give you the Earth, but I've already promised that to the meek. They take posession when Jesus returns. When's that? Uh, soon?"
Don't accept any personal cheques.
Posted by: Troy
|
June 23, 2009 5:12 PM
PZ, next time don't resize the pictures..
Posted by: Ompompanoosuc | June 23, 2009 5:20 PM
Speaking of gaps, I ran across someone asking "why is the speed of light what it is?" He/She claims that it is unknowable by science and I presume similar questions regarding other constants seem like a big gap. I have yet to engage. These seem like silly questions to me but if anyone has tactical advice I would love to hear it.
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 5:20 PM
Templetonians (?) will deny that they are playing a 'God of the Gaps' game. That requires being sure of yourself, and dogmatic, and saying "science proves God." Not so.
No, they're only making tentative suggestions, about vague possibilities, for which hefty amounts of cash are given out. Surely we can all see how very different that is.
Posted by: stogoe | June 23, 2009 5:21 PM
Uh, sir, about this 'meek inherit the earth' part?
Yeah, we're not doing that. What're the meek gonna do with the earth? They're meek!
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 5:26 PM
"Consider finally that the torment of this infernal prison is increased by the company of the damned themselves. Evil company on earth is so noxious that the plants, as if by instinct, withdraw from the company of whatsoever is deadly or hurtful to them. In hell all laws are overturned - there is no thought of family or country, of ties, of relationships. The damned howl and scream at one another, their torture and rage intensified by the presence of beings tortured and raging like themselves. All sense of humanity is forgotten. The yells of the suffering sinners fill the remotest corners of the vast abyss. The mouths of the damned are full of blasphemies against God and of hatred for their fellow sufferers and of curses against those souls which were their accomplices in sin. In olden times it was the custom to punish the parricide, the man who had raised his murderous hand against his father, by casting him into the depths of the sea in a sack in which were placed a cock, a monkey, and a serpent. The intention of those law-givers who framed such a law, which seems cruel in our times, was to punish the criminal by the company of hurtful and hateful beasts. But what is the fury of those dumb beasts compared with the fury of execration which bursts from the parched lips and aching throats of the damned in hell when they behold in their companions in misery those who aided and abetted them in sin, those whose words sowed the first seeds of evil thinking and evil living in their minds, those whose immodest suggestions led them on to sin, those whose eyes tempted and allured them from the path of virtue. They turn upon those accomplices and upbraid them and curse them. But they are helpless and hopeless: it is too late now for repentance."
Posted by: Darren Garrison | June 23, 2009 5:29 PM
That strip reminds me of a manga-- Jesus and Buddha have returned to life in modern times. And are roommates. In Japan.
http://www.onemanga.com/Saint_Young_Men/
Posted by: The Science Pundit
|
June 23, 2009 5:32 PM
Brilliant!
Posted by: JohnnieCanuck
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June 23, 2009 5:32 PM
Best Atheist cartoon I've come across. Sometimes deliciously subtle, always hard-hitting. That there are surprisingly few anti-Atheists in the comments is another bonus.
By all means, take a few days and go through the archives. The author is up there with cuttlefish and PZ, in my estimation.
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 5:34 PM
It's hard to tell if Tommy Traddles' quote from Anselm (or is it James Joyce?) is meant to accuse us, or the Christians who could believe it. I'll be charitable and assume the latter. Yes, Tommy, religion can indeed be divorced from morality. Not really on topic, but okay.
Posted by: dean | June 23, 2009 5:37 PM
"Uh, sir, about this 'meek inherit the earth' part?"
They will - when they sneak in an re-write all the wills.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
|
June 23, 2009 5:43 PM
Either way, Tommy's quote is wrong. Here's why:
Hell is empty.
Everyone who used to be there is in Heaven. It was a bloody coup, and it probably happened some time between the death of Christ and now.
Consider this:
Heaven is conquerable. God has an army, the Heavenly Host. God wouldn't need an army if there weren't external or internal enemies to worry about, or if there weren't the threat of invasion. Michael carries a flaming sword. If heaven were uninvadeable, he'd carry flaming sambucas.
Hell is a veritable breeding ground for guerillas and terrorists. History's bloodiest, most evil, most conniving, most dangerous, and smart people (y'know, the hell-bound eggheads we're always accused of being) all live there. And they've got nothing but time....
If at first you don't succeed... Hell sucks. In fact, it sucks so much that there's no place worse. No place worse means nothing to lose for trying to escape Hell. No place worse means nothing to lose for trying to conquer Heaven. No place worse means nothing to lose for trying until you succeed.
Nobody's heard from God or Jesus in nearly two millennia. Well, there was that guy Mohammed.
At this point it's all circumstantial, but the evidence so far suggests the castle was probably stormed quite a while ago.
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 5:45 PM
Check out the podcast Spiritual Enterprise: Doing Virtuous Business.
http://www.templeton.org/newsroom/audio_and_video/
They're just talking and talking and talking, and it's just nothing. It's just empty words. What are they talking about? I do not know.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 5:46 PM
"It's hard to tell if Tommy Traddles' quote from Anselm (or is it James Joyce?) is meant to accuse us, or the Christians who could believe it. I'll be charitable and assume the latter."
Joyce...
Take it howsoever you prefer
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
|
June 23, 2009 5:50 PM
Woah. Deep.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 5:51 PM
"They're just talking and talking and talking, and it's just nothing. It's just empty words. What are they talking about? I do not know."
Pharyngula? Or maybe talk.origins
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | June 23, 2009 5:53 PM
The goal of that Templeton chap
Was to re-write the scientists' map;
Though they thought it seemed odd,
He would print "Heere be Godde"
Where cartographers once left a gap.
Some scientists, sensing a trap,
Caused a ruckus, or maybe a flap
When they turned down his money
And said it smell'd funny
As if it were printed with crap!
Some others jumped right in his lap
Took his money in less than a snap
So the folks in the first
Group, expecting the worst,
Advised they be tested for clap.
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
|
June 23, 2009 5:55 PM
Go back to cutting and pasting others' work, Twaddles. You're way out of your depth here and probably most other places.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 23, 2009 5:57 PM
Oh noes! Such a scathing attack. However shall we survive the biting onslaught of Tommy Traddles?
Posted by: Jared Cormier
|
June 23, 2009 5:58 PM
Now Brownian, we don't want to upset him like "Petter"
/sarcasm
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 5:58 PM
Tommy Traddles, you didn't watch the videos.
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 6:00 PM
Tommy Traddles, you didn't watch the videos.
Not that I don't blame you for not, though!
Posted by: Tim H | June 23, 2009 6:03 PM
Famous story:
Someone once posted on the company bulletin board a printed sign with the biblical quote, "The meek shall inherit the Earth."
Someone scrawled underneath, in small letters, "If that's alright with you."
(Just went through a MS auto update to IE 8.0 . It screwed up my preferences, so I've switched to Firefox. Now I have auto spellcheck! No more embarrassing spelling errors in my posts! Now they just need to come up with logiccheck for the creotards.)(Just added "creotards" to dictionary.)
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
|
June 23, 2009 6:08 PM
I promised another poster here I'd refrain from calling him 'Twaddle'.
I hate to give up a good nickname though, especially when it fits what Tommy Notone just spewed out so well. So far we've got a long and tedious quote and a comment that essentially resolves to "I know you are but what am I?"
These are the chowderheads we're supposed to respect? Parrots without the plumage?
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 6:08 PM
Just went through a MS auto update to IE 8.0 . It screwed up my preferences, so I've switched to Firefox.
I would probably go with Opera. I don't think I would go with Firefox. I would use Firefox only in case of dire need for iMacros or something.
Posted by: Jared Cormier
|
June 23, 2009 6:15 PM
Who said anything about respect? No, I was saying to use words he cannot comprehend, that can't be too difficult...Posted by: Lynna | June 23, 2009 6:16 PM
Been thinking about Opera, 386sx. Why do you like it?
Posted by: Holbach
|
June 23, 2009 6:32 PM
Tommy Twaddles is the gap.
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 6:37 PM
Been thinking about Opera, 386sx. Why do you like it?
Everything is just easy. Bookmarks are easy. Taking notes are easy. Easier on memory than Firefox. (IE beats them both on memory though.) Pages load faster and smoother. Tabs are easier to handle. You can open more tabs than Firefox. You can do context searching and "go to web address" and things like that without having to get extra plugins that use up memory.
You might miss iMacros and other plugins and multi-part downloads if you switch from Firefox though. But not really because you can still use Firefox whenever you want. :P I would suggest the beta Opera. http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 6:42 PM
"You're way out of your depth here and probably most other places."
Mais non! Monsieur.
I can kick the ass of anyone who wants to engage me. :-)
Posted by: 386sx | June 23, 2009 6:49 PM
I would suggest the beta Opera.
But you might run into bugs, of course. Another thing you might miss is ad-block. But Opera does have ad blocking. You can get premade filter lists from places like this...
http://pgl.yoyo.org/as/serverlist.php?hostformat=operafilter&showintro=0&mimetype=plaintext
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 6:53 PM
Tommy Traddles #37 wrote:
On the Templeton Foundation? Or hell? Or on the relationship between the Templeton Foundation, and hell?
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 6:59 PM
"I promised another poster here I'd refrain from calling him 'Twaddle'.
I hate to give up a good nickname though,"
Making fun of someone's name does not qualify as "engaging"
In fact, it's dismally pathetic.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 7:10 PM
"On the Templeton Foundation? Or hell? Or on the relationship between the Templeton Foundation, and hell?"
How about the Templeton Foundation?
http://www.templeton.org/evolution/
After all Hell is just "other people".
Posted by: Holbach
|
June 23, 2009 7:11 PM
Tommy Twaddles @ 37
Can you kick your imaginary god's ass? Better yet, why don't you get it to kick all our asses for making an imaginary ass of it?
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
|
June 23, 2009 7:12 PM
We've got an internet tough guy here.
Posted by: Carlie | June 23, 2009 7:12 PM
You haven't engaged yet either, Tommy. So far you've only provided a tl;dr off-topic quote and a snide remark about Pharyngula and talk.origins. You've offered nothing to engage with.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 7:13 PM
So, Tommy (not Twaddles) Traddles. You want to put up your dukes and show what you've got or do you want to dance?
Maybe you want to be the new Dante and scare us all anew?
So. Waddaya got, kid?
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | June 23, 2009 7:20 PM
Tommy Twaddles squeaked:
Sounds like the only person you're 'engaging' is yourself; doesn't the bible say that's a bad thing?
Posted by: Ty | June 23, 2009 7:26 PM
"I can kick the ass of anyone who wants to engage me."
Empty boasting is AWESOME!!!11!
Now tell us how much you can bench press!!!
Posted by: Carlie | June 23, 2009 7:29 PM
No, no, tell us what grades you got in school! And how many debate tournaments you won!
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 7:29 PM
Tommy Traddles #41 wrote:
The site you linked to gives 12 different responses to the question "does evolution explain human nature?" All of them, I think, accept basic evolution. Is there one you agree with -- or disagree with -- more than the others?
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 7:31 PM
"Can you kick your imaginary god's ass? Better yet, why don't you get it to kick all our asses for making an imaginary ass of it?"
God is NOT imaginary.
Göd is a small town in Pest County, Budapest metropolitan area, Hungary
Location of Göd
Coordinates: 47°41′38″N 19°08′32″E
Country Hungary
County Pest
Area
- Total 22.3 km2 (8.6 sq mi)
Population (2007)
- Total 16,951
- Density 720.08/km2 (1,865/sq mi)
Time zone CET (UTC+1)
- Summer (DST) CEST (UTC+2)
Postal code 2131
Area code(s) 27
Göd is famous for its thriving tourism. It has a thermal spa open almost 365 days a year with its water already declared as rich in minerals. Just next to the spa is the closest golf course to Budapest, the capital of Hungary, equipped with a luxurious five-star hotel named Pólus Palace.
I don't think the good people of Göd would appreciate being labelled "imaginary"!
Posted by: speedwell | June 23, 2009 7:35 PM
I knew it. God is Hungarian. Of course, he has to compete with all the other Hungarians (and half-Hungarians like me) who think they're God.
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | June 23, 2009 7:37 PM
Tommy Twaddles bleated:
Are you from Pest County, Tommy Twaddles? It's starting to look that way.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 7:45 PM
I may be posting before I've stopped laughing and started thinking but this seems to be appropriate:
Nice counter punch,Tommy.
Now I need to bring up Google Earth.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 7:51 PM
"The site you linked to gives 12 different responses to the question "does evolution explain human nature?" All of them, I think, accept basic evolution. Is there one you agree with -- or disagree with -- more than the others?"
No. I have great respect for Margulis, Collins, Conway Morris, Ayala and the others but unfortunately, they're all wrong, to a greater or lesser degree.
The correct answer is NO!
Evolution DOES NOT explain human nature.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 7:55 PM
Yer right, Tommy! The town is where you said it was and from what I can gather from the limited Street Views it seems like a lovely place. Thoughtfully designed and well maintained.
When people say to me that the world is so thoughtfully designed that there must be a creator I always like to bring up the part about maintainence. Along with the privilege of ownership comes the responsibility of upkeep. I observe that most of my fellow humans take better care of their cars and flatware than Invisible Supernatural Spooks do of the whole of creation. Really. Some parts of it are going to Hell! See today's Astronomy Picture of the day: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
What'll we do when the Dark is upon us?
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | June 23, 2009 7:57 PM
Tommy Twaddles ranted:
To paraphrase our bearded overlord - PZ, not your pissant god - 'Your ignorance is not evidence.'
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 7:58 PM
Tommy Traddles #54 wrote:
Why not?
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | June 23, 2009 8:06 PM
PZ, can you promise us that if the expression 'impossibility of the contrary' appears in a post under Tommy Twaddle's name you'll plonk him without hesitation? Because one facilis was too many.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:12 PM
So what does explain human nature, history? Some will answer yes.
These would be the same ones who value second (or greater) hand accounts of what happened to someone else over precise measurement and repeatable tests. No wonder there are great, dark clouds gathering in the heavens!
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:17 PM
I forgot (imagine that) to mention how much I loves me some Jesus and Mo. At least in the comic they make some attempt to be honest.
And don't forget to tip the barmaid. How 'bout that girl? She's pretty sharp.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 8:21 PM
Sastra wrote:
"Why not?
I like what Ayala said:
"Science is a way of knowing, but it is not the only
way. Evolution tells us much, but certainly not
everything, about human experience and the
human predicament. In The Myth of Sisyphus,
Albert Camus asserted that we learn more about
ourselves and the world from a relaxed evening
gazing at the starry heavens and taking in the
scent of grass than from science’s reductive ways.
This may be literary exaggeration, but there can
be no doubt that we learn about human nature by
reading Shakespeare’s King Lear, contemplating
the self-portraits of Rembrandt, and listening to
Tchaikovsky’s Symphonie Pathétique. We humans
judge our actions toward others according to
systems of morality, and we derive meaning and
purpose from religious beliefs. Evolution may
explain our capacity to hold these principles and
beliefs, but it does not explain the principles
and beliefs themselves."
Posted by: Steve P. | June 23, 2009 8:26 PM
Truth is, explaining 'how' natural phenomena works has never taken God out of the picture.
If that were the case, none of the great scientists of the past 300 years would have done science.
Phrase of the day: Out of sight is not out of Mind.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | June 23, 2009 8:30 PM
Ompompanoosuc @ # 10: Speaking of gaps, I ran across someone asking "why is the speed of light what it is?" He/She claims that it is unknowable by science ...
Tell someone that the speed of light was first figured out exactly 100 years before the American Revolution:
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:31 PM
*Fixed.*
I recall an old proverb. Dutch, if memory serves: "Some people like cherries. Some people like religion."
So ... ahh ... kid. Whaddaya got?
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 8:32 PM
"These would be the same ones who value second (or greater) hand accounts of what happened to someone else over precise measurement and repeatable tests.
You sound like those people who tried (and failed) to make psychology, sociology and biology "hard science".
Posted by: Kora | June 23, 2009 8:34 PM
Re: The Ad
That's what HE said!
Thank you, and good night.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:37 PM
No, Tommy. I sound like one of those people who tried (and failed) to allow their own brains to be sabotaged by twice told tales. Thrice? More? Sure. Count the tellings, if you can, and show the changes, if you catch them.
Posted by: Carlie | June 23, 2009 8:39 PM
If this thread were a paper I were grading, Tommy would already be at a low C for using too many quotes and not enough of his own words.
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | June 23, 2009 8:41 PM
Yeah, except that, thanks to science, we've taken a whole lot of 'pictures', and found gods in none of them.
And since the religions which include a god in their structure posit that god as having significantly interacted with, and is still interacting with, the world in a physical, tangible sense, the fact that we haven't found any evidence for any gods is telling.
The idea of a god which is outside of science is only a relatively new defence (lies to the contrary notwithstanding) concocted by the desperate religious because science - which they've always expected would find their god - has found considerable evidence to suggest there is either no gods (theirs or anyone elses) or, at the very least, no gods which have left any indication they exist.
Posted by: Tommy Traddles | June 23, 2009 8:43 PM
"No, Tommy. I sound like one of those people who tried (and failed) to allow their own brains to be sabotaged by twice told tales. Thrice? More? Sure. Count the tellings, if you can, and show the changes, if you catch them.
Cue the Feynman "cargo cult" clip:
http://www.pd.infn.it/~loreti/science.html
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 8:43 PM
Tommy Traddles #61 wrote:
I generally liked what he said as well, but I'm not sure he quite answered the question. Or, perhaps, he went on to answer a different question. We wouldn't use evolution to explain the "human experience" any more than we would use it to explain Hamlet, in the same way that we wouldn't explain either one using the laws of physics. Evolution explains human nature only in a very broad meaning of "human nature." But that's a significant point.
Ayala writes this:
I am curious as to whether or not he thinks religion makes assertions about a 'supernatural world' -- or whether he has redefined or reclassified religion into some other area. "The stories we tell ourselves" perhaps.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:45 PM
Wow.
You Bagged 'em.
Nice. Expect to be quoted.
Posted by: Newfie | June 23, 2009 8:54 PM
I'm pretty sure that the evolution human emotion explains why I want to put my boot in yer arse.
Posted by: Owlmirror | June 23, 2009 8:55 PM
Problem is, Ayala is wrong. "Other ways of knowing" -- gnosis, revelation -- are fundamentally incoherent. He's getting all mystical and romantic, but mysticism and romance that have no contact with the empirical world are indistinguishable from imagination; from make-believe.
Posted by: Newfie | June 23, 2009 8:56 PM
ftfmPosted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 8:59 PM
Now, Tommy. Surely you know that cargo cults are the poster child of unreasonable and ill-informed expectations, no?
Why does it appear that Christianity and religion in general are becoming less distinguishable from cargo cults? Might there not be a connection with reference to a predisposition to welcome and even claim to be able to make magic? To the legendary ability of the faithful to petition the Lord with prayer? With me, boy?
Would that we all could. Our collective efforts might just be enough to destroy anything like civilization and many thousands of years of honest work and profit (upon which civilization is based). I know some people who would think that this would be a great development to be given thanks for. I know wome other people that would spew their monitors with the libation nearest at hand.
C'mon, Tommy. Put 'em up.
Posted by: John Morales | June 23, 2009 9:07 PM
Great, TT the copypasta flame warrior.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 9:14 PM
This typo is not a mistake: I know wome other people that . . .
I am womebody. Everyone is womebody. Even you, Tommy, are womeone.
I have no ideas pertinent to an Invisible Supernatural Spook loving you but I, in my horribly twisted and corrupt human manner, common to all human endeavor which, according to the holey word, is the unavoidable state of all humanity, love you.
You are a valuable human being and are no doubt loved by those you love. (Who am I to assume; sorry if that's a sore spot.)
You have come here to make apologies for the wide habit of faith. You have convinced no one. Maybe you should back up a few million miles and get a running start.
I'm pulling for you even while not agreeing with you. See what a horridly backslidden brother in the blood I am?
Posted by: Sastra
|
June 23, 2009 9:17 PM
Owlmirror #74 wrote:
Remember, this is the Templeton Foundation, so it's not very clear what Ayala means by invoking other "ways of knowing." He might mean mystical revelation and tradition. Or he might mean that things like values and preferences and poetry are not going to be discovered through science like empirical facts. I read him the second way. I think.
Posted by: Carlie | June 23, 2009 9:25 PM
You are a valuable human being and are no doubt loved by those you love. (Who am I to assume; sorry if that's a sore spot.)
Isn't that the whole raison d'être of modern Christianity? Some Very Important Being wuvs you. Sure, he's got a temper, and he's pretty strict, but still. That's how they get people. That's why they prey on children, and prisoners, and alcoholics, and other people in dire circumstances. God up there loves you. How can reality compete with that? You are terrible, and unlovable, and lonely, but that Very Powerful Being loves you. And they want to believe that so badly that they'll reject every bit of rationality they have.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 9:26 PM
Tommy?
Tommy?
Tommy can you hear me?
Are you thankful for "The Who"? I am. And I "won't get fooled again," if I keep my guard up. You? Got your guard up?
Posted by: Jared Cormier
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June 23, 2009 9:37 PM
Mr. Traddles, I would be more than happy to explain how evolution and history do, in fact, explain human nature, but I don't think you'd listen...
Posted by: Sameer | June 23, 2009 10:44 PM
They need to work a bit more on the comics (I mean the actual depictions/drawing of the cartoons). The guy with the beard and turban is supposed to be Mohammed I presume, but looks more like Guru Nanak or some other Sikh Guru.
Posted by: Sameer | June 23, 2009 11:02 PM
Religion requires an perversion of logic. I don't know how X works/ why X is the way it is/ where X came from? Therefore God must be the cause of X. You a replacing an unknown with another unknown/unknowable. But for the believers they are replacing unknown with what they believe is certainty. There must be some survival advantage in this magic trick. Maybe it took your mind away from thinking about lightening (you know for certain that God sends lightening) to hunting for food. The greatest leaps in science occurred only after we solved the basic problems of survival and some of us had the leisure to sit and think about abstract concepts, mathematics etc. For most of human history, we have been relegating a lot of things to the God account. Its a bad habit which was once perhaps a useful one. I guess it's gonna take some time for a lot of us to get rid of it.
Or do my pop evolutionary arguments not make any sense?
Posted by: John Morales | June 23, 2009 11:17 PM
Sameer @84, they do make sense, but I think the utility of religion to survival probably has more to do with group cohesion (we're a social species) than with peace of mind.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 23, 2009 11:28 PM
I just spent the time since my last post talking with a neighbor of mine, a Marine with two tours in Iraq. He is haunted by the knowledge that he had killed civilians in the course of his duties.
He wonders what had happened to his morals. I told him that nothing had happened to his morals; I told him that the underlying ethics of his morality had been modified by his exposure to some naked reality. Meaning that a moral code is the result of an agreed-upon ethic that defines what one would like and would recoil from. My point being that one will always defend the familiar against the strange, against the other. Observe that different populations have different values that are often unintelligible across cultural divides. No wonder we can't agree on morality, the foundations are fluid, frangible. Except the parts about personal authority and the obligation of government to insure such authority within commonly accepted limits.
In between those limits are the right to call someone who is an ass an ass. Too, the warning that one may also be so accused, whether by reason or emotion. I felt righteous. Was I?
I'm at a loss to explain it all and so again invoke a favorite quote, source mysterious:
"We live in a world of symbols and abstractions, and many a man dies by his own cliches."
Go well, Tommy. Stick around if you like. I think you could be turned.
Posted by: F | June 23, 2009 11:40 PM
@ Sameer, #83
That is Moses / Moshe / Moises. Hence, "Mo."
I'm not entirely sure what the Hebrews would have looked like in the post-Egypt days, but I think it flies.
An accurate depiction of "Jesus" is far more problematic. :D
Posted by: Don Rowe | June 24, 2009 12:39 AM
@ #87
No, it's Mohammed... at least his body double. Read the first cartoon of the series.
Moses appears as a separate character in some of the cartoons, eg http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/10/23/lost/
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | June 24, 2009 12:41 AM
Tommy?
My father's name was Thomas and people called him Tommy cause he liked it. Or Tom Cat. He liked that too.
What shall we call you?
And so, g'night. Unless you are quicker than sleep . . .
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | June 24, 2009 12:47 AM
There are lies of commission and lies of omission. THIS is a lie of omission: "Truth is, explaining 'how' natural phenomena works has never taken God out of the picture. If that were the case, none of the great scientists of the past 300 years would have done science."
Well,duh, most scientists of the past 300 years were in the process of MAKING our modern science. Before that, there wasn't science, only Godidit, like the Bible said. Most expected to find proof of Godidit. Much to their amazement, they found nature was often at odds with biblical 'truth' (i.e. in medicine, biology, geology, astronomy, to name of few branches that just didn't back up the Bible.)
Was Kepler a God Believer? Yes. But he didn't discover the 3 Laws of Planetary Motion until he shut the freaking Bible and studied nature with an open & unbiased mind.
Was Newton a God Believer? Yes. But he didn't discover the 3 Laws of Physics and develop the Theory of Universal Gravitation until he shut the freaking Bible and studied nature with an open & unbiased mind.
(And these 2 gentlemen were very perturbed that their observational discoveries were at odds with their religious beliefs.)
Was Pasteur religious? I don't know. But he didn't develop the Germ Theory of Disease until he shut the freaking Bible and studied nature with an open & unbiased mind.
It absolutely rots my socks to have simps claim these historic scientists were successful at explaining nature BECAUSE they were religious, when, in fact they had to 'set aside' their religious beliefs in order to make the discoveries they did. Just as scientists must today.
Posted by: Larry | June 24, 2009 3:16 AM
Thank you, PZ for posting Jesus and Mo. They deserve the recognition and the caricatures are just fine. It's the message they give that is the important part.
Posted by: uncle frogy | June 24, 2009 3:54 AM
I do not know what the problem is with the god botherers there is only one "gap" that fits the definition and is actually in the bible. it is the "time before the big bang"?
I do not remember how it goes and I am not going to look it up but it goes something to the effect "before (something) I A AM" and "I am the alpha and the omega."
and that makes no sense?
Posted by: gdlchmst | June 24, 2009 7:58 AM
@#92
That's god's way of saying "I'm the azzle to the zizzle...fo shizzle."