Pharyngula

Posted by: Elwood Herring | July 7, 2009 6:41 PM

The bar for stupid has just been lowered yet again.

Posted by: Kobra | July 7, 2009 6:43 PM

Your question, "How ignorant can a creationist be?" must be rhetorical.

Posted by: Slaan | July 7, 2009 6:43 PM

I don't know Elwood. I don't think you can fall far from the "Banana disproves Evolution" tree.

Posted by: Nyxator | July 7, 2009 6:52 PM

Ok, did anyone else check out the pictures on the page about vestigial organs? Check out he URL, it's absolutely awesome!

Posted by: charlied | July 7, 2009 6:53 PM

It looks like they converted more creationist to evolution (9.23%) than evolutionists to creationism (6.15%)

Posted by: Darren Galea | July 7, 2009 6:57 PM

They wouldn't be creationists if they weren't ignorant.

Posted by: Krystalline Apostate | July 7, 2009 7:00 PM

Do note you can vote several times.
Nyaxator @ &

Ok, did anyone else check out the pictures on the page about vestigial organs

Posted by: Darren Garrison | July 7, 2009 7:01 PM

Meh. Not worth wasting time on. This isn't an organization-- this is just one guy who is a lot less intelligent and educated than he thinks he is. Sites like that are a dime a hundred.

On a tangentially related note:

http://bytesizebio.net/index.php/2009/07/04/from-predator-to-plant-in-one-gulp/

Posted by: Nominal Egg | July 7, 2009 7:01 PM

Creation, and now only Evolution.
That's how we're supposed to vote, right?

I mean, fornicate!

Posted by: John Swindle | July 7, 2009 7:03 PM

Yes, I laughed at first. But as I continued to read, I was filled with pity. So wrong, and yet so arrogant.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | July 7, 2009 7:03 PM

How ignorant can a creationist be?

*shrug* How ignorant do you need 'em?

Posted by: Ramel | July 7, 2009 7:05 PM

The higlight of the sit is definatly the FAQ: http://missinguniversemuseum.com/faq.htm

Posted by: Mu | July 7, 2009 7:06 PM

I find their dating (age, not sex) section the most hilarious

Assumptions made in radioactive dating methods:

* That the atmosphere has had the same (all instead of Carbon 14) concentration in the past as now. Who knows? This is a false assumption.
* That the production of parent isotopes has been constant. Again, who knows? This is a false assumption.
* That the original ratio and amounts of the isotope in the fossil or rock is known. This is based on current processes and assumes the rate of absorption was the same in the past. This is a false assumption.
* That the decay rate is constant. Many things are known to affect decay rates. This is a false assumption.
* That no contamination has occurred. This is a false assumption.
* That no daughter (stable) element was originally in the fossil. This is a false assumption.
* That the decay rate was determined accurately. Decay rates are constantly being modified and criticized. This is a false assumption.
* That the only loss of the isotope is due to the decay process. This is a false assumption.

So the many things affect decay rates is the best, if they could just show us how to do that, we'd solved all our energy issues in a heartbeat. No more nuclear waste, we just decay it all, and get free energy to boot.

Posted by: @BangClangCrash | July 7, 2009 7:15 PM

"I used to be an Atheist, but now I'm a Bible-believing Christian". Poor guy, cocaine really must be a hell of a drug.

Posted by: NaonTiotami | July 7, 2009 7:16 PM

Ooh, nice evolution test. Very... do-able.

It's funny how there seems to be three camps in the creationist movement:

1. The "ignorant" creationists, like the one who wrote the website mentioned here.
2. The "knowledgeable" creationists, like the ones at Answers in Genesis, who seem to have an answer for every criticism leveled at them.
3. The "scientific" intelligent design proponents, like the Discovery Institute, who shroud there creationism in scientific-sounding language.

Of all of them, I think the intelligent design proponents are the most dishonest, and frankly, the most dangerous.

Posted by: slang | July 7, 2009 7:19 PM

Damn.. it's like the authors of that site can only think of representing reality in LEGO blocks, while vehemently denying the possibility of representing reality like Van Gogh, Cezanne, or even Dali. Four is two plus two! Begone thou heathen two-squarers, thou threeplusoners, thou sinning eight-dividers, begone complexity!

Posted by: MPG | July 7, 2009 7:19 PM

Love their website design - it's like it's 1996 all over again! All it's missing is waving flag/flame/smiley animated GIFs, and those rainbow horizontal divider bars. Oh, and some <marquee> tags somewhere. It's rather sweet in a way.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2009 7:19 PM

[evolution believes in] Renewable Coal And Oil?

Can you believe that?

I don't know anybody who thinks that oil and coal are renewable in any logical sense. Sure, on an immense timescale coupled with a whole bunch of coincidences.

Funny thing, it's the right that seems to be using fossil fuels as though they are renewable.

Posted by: TBRP | July 7, 2009 7:22 PM

Creation, and now only Evolution FTW!

Posted by: cag | July 7, 2009 7:22 PM

I voted "Evolution, and now only Evolution" as I wouldn't stoop to lie because lying is what fundies do. We have no reason to lie, even if it would tick off the fundie to have a result of creation --> evolution.

Posted by: Graham | July 7, 2009 7:26 PM

If you still believe Evolution why don't you collect the rewards for proof?
See the Reward for Proof of Evolution page.

Apparently, I've won some kind of cookie or something. I think I'll pass.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself | July 7, 2009 7:27 PM

Actually the author of the Missing Universe Museum web site is a former atheist. I was an absolute skeptic and enemy of all religions.

Yeah, right. It seems that every single fundamentalist was an atheist and then found Jebus and learned to hate evolution. This particular lie is the one I find most insulting to my intelligence.

Posted by: Smidgy | July 7, 2009 7:28 PM

Ah, he does know enough about evolution to offer a million bucks to prove evolution, but heavily skew the 'proof' required in favor of not proving it. You see, he wants living species that all form a chain of transitional forms. Transitional fossils don't cut it. This means that, if natural selection does its thing, when an organism devlops a feature that is advantageous, which later turns out to be a transitional form to something else, would spread throughout the population, it will displace the old subspecies that doesn't have this feature, and cause it to go extinct. This means that, to qualify for the million buck reward, you need a feature that develops, then gets improved on, or develops into something else, several times, WITHOUT any of the species or subspecies that form the previous steps in the chain getting displaced by the new species or subspecies and going extinct, which kinda goes against how natural selection works.

Of course, I'm not exactly a biologist, so there may very well be a living chain of evolution like this guy wants, somewhere, that I don't know about. No doubt, though, if you presented him with it, unless it is something as outlandish as a horse growing wings, he'll disqualify your entry, for one excuse or another.

Posted by: Porco Dio | July 7, 2009 7:30 PM

ha! i hope this is a hoax...

in fact we need more like it...

pre-poison wannabe IDiots with the null-dimensional arguments displayed here...

then they can parade their brainless pompousness made all the more easy for us to expunge...

Posted by: Eyeoffaith | July 7, 2009 7:32 PM

Evolution Test
Students, give this test to your teachers. When they fail it, ask them why they are teaching this nonsense!

Teachers, give this test to your students if you really want them to know the truth about evolution!

1. Which evolved first, male or female?

They co-evolved.

2. How many millions of years elapsed between the first male and first female?

Zero

3. List at least 9 of the false assumptions made with radioactive dating methods.

i. That creationists can understand it
ii. That creationists can accurately report radiometric dates.
iii. That creationists will honestly evaluate the methods.
iv. That creationists will even try to be honest.
v. That creationists will accept valid science.
vi. That creationists are interested in science.
vii. That creationists are interested in the truth

I don't think I can reach 9.

4. Why hasn't any extinct creature re-evolved after millions of years?

Evolution does not predict this.

5. Which came first:
...the eye,
...the eyelid,
...the eyebrow,
...the eye sockets,
...the eye muscles,
...the eye lashes,
...the tear ducts,
...the brain's interpretation of light?

i) The brain's interpretation of light
ii) eyes
iii) sockets and muscles.
iv) tear ducts and eye lids would be after animals came on land
v) lashes and brows are a mammalian feature which came last.

6. How many millions of years between each in question 5?

Not sure.

7. If we all evolved from a common ancestor, why can't all the different species mate with one another and produce fertile offspring?

Incompatibility between genomes....Geez....learn some basic biology.

8. List any of the millions of creatures in just five stages of its evolution showing the progression of a new organ of any kind. When you have done this, you can collect the millions of dollars in rewards offered for proof of evolution!

Conodonts have a very detailed evolutionary sequences known. I don't know why a new organ would be necessary in this question. Do humans have organs that chimps don't?? I guess evolution of chimp to human is only a minor change according to the wording of this question.

9. Why is it that the very things that would prove Evolution (transitional forms) are still missing?

Lots of Transitional forms are know. Read some books on evolution that haven't been written by creationists.

10. Explain why something as complex as human life could happen by chance, but something as simple as a coin must have a creator. (Show your math solution.)

No maths needed. We have obsverved humans making coins so we know coins have a creator. We have yet to find something creating life (except through sexual reproduction - but I assume the examiners aren't thinking about that)

11. Why aren't any fossils or coal or oil being formed today?

They are. What are coral reefs if not currently forming fossils. Lots of Quaternary fossils are known. And how are peat mounds not potentially future coal?

12. List 50 vestigial or useless organs or appendages in the human body.

i) appendix
ii) creationist brains
iii) bored with this question now.

13. Why hasn't anyone collected the millions of dollars in rewards for proof of evolution?

Because creationists are dishonest and it is a rigged challenge.

14. If life began hundreds of millions of years ago, why is the earth still under populated?

I have no idea what you mean by this. It looks well populated to me.

15. Why hasn't evolution duplicated all species on all continents?

It never claims it would.

Wow. What a lame exam.

Posted by: Guradian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 7:33 PM

So, the happy little Poll Fornicators are at it again. Does it make you feel better to fornicate polls? If so, how many millions of years did it take for atheists to evolve into poll fornicators and at what point will they evolve into something even more annoying? Poll fornication is funny, but mean at the same time. I am glad our brilliant minds in the "scientific" field have nothing better to do than fornicate polls and talk about a non existant problem of global warming. (AKA - tax hike ponzi sheme power grab).

I am glad that some people are silly enough to believe that evolution can actually occur. It gives us normal people something to laugh about. I am glad that evolution has brought us scientists that are on the same hygene level as neanderthals - bth never take a bath, comb their hair, or shave and neither can get a woman without knocking one in the head with a big stick.

It's funny that evolution (HAHA) made mankind the way we are today, but kept atheists and "scientists" back about 20,000 years in the hygeine department. I guess evolution isn't a perfect "science" though.

While you wierdos look for answers to your "millions of years" conspiracy theories, we normal people already have the answers. We have had them for over 6000 years now. Look like evolution is running about 6000 years behind schedule after all.

Until, next time, happy poll fornication. Now go take a bath and comb your hair and you might get a date with a neanderthal woman. Nancy Pelosi?

Oh, and put down that trash called evolution and look at the real world. You might learn something important. Stop listening to demons and get away from darwin worship. It's for the birds.

Posted by: sasqwatch | July 7, 2009 7:34 PM

Damn. Just a few moments ago I was a young-earth creationist. It all turned around for me after just a few minutes at the Missing Universe Creation Museum, though. However did we manage before the rise of the information age?

Posted by: Brain Hertz | July 7, 2009 7:35 PM

Ok, I don't even know what to say about this page. Mostly because I don't know what it is saying:

http://missinguniversemuseum.com/Exhibit14.htm

the incoherence is strong with this one...

Posted by: Jason A. | July 7, 2009 7:37 PM

#46 quotes:

Light from Distant Stars This is said to prove billions of years. Geometrically, the maximum that can be measured is 330 light-years (330 years old) distant.

Wait, what?

Posted by: Jason A. | July 7, 2009 7:41 PM

Heh, from the probability page:

we can apply these laws of probability and mathematically prove that Evolution is absolutely impossible

I wasn't aware that probability could be used to absolutely prove anything...

Posted by: pixnlil | July 7, 2009 7:45 PM

"Also, how is the transitional form supposed to live while its jaws, teeth and gills are changing into some other form?"

Really?! That just hurts to read. I don't know that I can even laugh at that, it just hurts so much.

Posted by: Tabby Lavalamp | July 7, 2009 7:47 PM

See Exhibit 5 Transitional Forms then see if you think you can collect this reward*.

*Reward of at least $1,000,000 shall be paid in U.S. dollars. It would be no problem raising this amount of money if you have evidence of Evolution, scientists from around the world will gladly pay dearly for it! An independent jury of Evolutionists and Creationists will review your submission and their conclusion is final.

I am curious about this independent jury though and would like to know if any of the alleged "Evolutionists and Creationists" are aware they are on it.

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 7:49 PM

@ Guradian of the Poll [sic]: ... poll fornicators? I mean, not that the rest isn't utterly ridiculous- I find the fact that your argument seems to consist entirely of baselessly insulting the hygiene- spelled, by the way, hygiene- of scientists particularly amusing- but really- "poll fornicators"? What the hell is that even supposed to mean?

I can't quite tell if this is a Poe or not.

Posted by: Funkjunkie | July 7, 2009 7:52 PM

I'm thisclose to believing that this site is actually a hoax. For example: its answer to whether we can trust the Bible:

[The Bible] claims to be the Word of God. Now that should be easy to prove. If it was written by ignorant, uneducated men and women over that many years, it would be full of nonsense and contradictions.

Ummm.... Wait, are you saying that it's NOT full of nonsense and contradictions?? FAIL.

Posted by: Joffan | July 7, 2009 7:53 PM

Taken at random I present:
Numeracy Fail:

Stalactites and Stalagmites are said to require thousands or even millions of years to accumulate. ... In the man-made entrance to Kartchner Caverns in Arizona, a stalactite was growing in December of 2000. The cave had been open for about 2 years and this stalactite was 1/4 inch thick and 3 inches long. At that rate in just 1,000 years it could be 125 feet tall and over 10 feet thick.

(And damn, more of that "specie" nonsense... I'm going to lie down).

Posted by: raven | July 7, 2009 7:55 PM

from the FAQ:

Actually the author of the Missing Universe Museum web site is a former atheist. I was an absolute skeptic and enemy of all religions. I totally believed the theory of Evolution ...

I don't believe this, a lie. They all say that. It's some sort of death cult xian formula like "Once upon a time", "You atheists are all going to hell", "We will kill you once we take over." , or "Jesus loves you so we will pray for you, once the ashes of your bonefire have cooled."
I'm not even sure he made up the lie. He seems pretty stupid. Probably just copied it from another xian creationist web site.

Today I am a Bible believing Christian.

How sad. Another victim of toxic religion doomed to lie and hate all through what could have been a normal life. This is what happens when you are dull witted and suffering from mental illness.

Posted by: Traffic Demon | July 7, 2009 7:57 PM

How nice of them to preserve your vote if you block cookies and hit the "back" button. Click back, hit return, lather, rinse, repeat, crash.

Posted by: robhoofd | July 7, 2009 8:00 PM

Genesis 5:4 says Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. Yes this would be incest. You also have incest at some points with the Evolution model. In the Bible, incest is not a sin until Leviticus 18:6 which is after the Flood and the genetic burden is becoming worse.

Ha, the Evolutionists do it too, but God's cool with it anyway, except when it's Evolutionism, but if this guy in the bible did it, it's fine, but mind you, it happens in Evolution too, and that's super icky, so there.

Also, there's genetics in the bible, so there's your answer.

Posted by: MPG | July 7, 2009 8:03 PM

Jason A @ #57

Light from Distant Stars This is said to prove billions of years. Geometrically, the maximum that can be measured is 330 light-years (330 years old) distant.

Wait, what?

I'm guessing they mean that's roughly the limit at which a star's distance can be measured by parallax and triangulation; that is, measuring its position relative to distant "background" stars, waiting six months for the Earth to travel halfway around the sun and measuring again. They're out-of-date with their info there though - the Hipparchos satellite launched in 1989 was sensitive enough to boost the range of parallax measurement to about 1,600 light years (and there's a mission due to launch in 2011 that will increase that range by at least 10 times again). And of course, they're ignoring all the other methods used for measuring distance, like the "standard candles" of Cepheid variables and supernovae, doppler shift, etc. etc., never mind the fact that we can see other distant galaxies, even through a modest pair of binoculars. One wonders how they breathe with their heads buried so deep in the sand.

Posted by: Ryan | July 7, 2009 8:08 PM

Great job voting everyone, the current results are hilarious! Seems like everyone either started out as evolutionists and retained their stance or started out as creationists and the site backfired! too funny.

Posted by: NixNoctua | July 7, 2009 8:09 PM

Or maybe a thousand monkeys typed randomly on typewriters for millions of years until by chance this web site was produced.

Well, that would explain a lot...

Posted by: Elwood Herring | July 7, 2009 8:10 PM

MPG: Spot on, I was going to tackle that too but you beat me to it and said it better than I could. Key words: parallax, cepheid variables, redshift. Done.

Posted by: Elwood Herring | July 7, 2009 8:12 PM

(Plus you can now also add gravitational lensing!)

Posted by: techskeptic | July 7, 2009 8:14 PM

Ok guys, someone win the challenge.

"*Reward of at least $1,000,000 shall be paid in U.S. dollars. It would be no problem raising this amount of money if you have evidence of Evolution, scientists from around the world will gladly pay dearly for it! An independent jury of Evolutionists and Creationists will review your submission and their conclusion is final. "

you just gotta fill in 5 boxes with fossils that show one species transforming into another.

I'm gonna guess that they don't have the money.

Posted by: raven | July 7, 2009 8:17 PM

Guradian (sic) being crazy:

Until, next time, happy poll fornication. Now go take a bath and comb your hair and you might get a date with a neanderthal woman. Nancy Pelosi?

Oh, and put down that trash called evolution and look at the real world. You might learn something important. Stop listening to demons and get away from darwin worship. It's for the birds.

Guradian thanks for posting that. It confirms my initial diagnosis. Mental illness for sure.

A sociopath for sure. Most likely a schizophrenic, delusions and incoherent thoughts are a hallmark. Hostility such as he exhibits is variably present.

Posted by: Caine | July 7, 2009 8:20 PM

@86, Dear Guradian of the Poll [sic], please go fuck yourself. Or go fuck a poll, since it seems to be on your mind. I responded to the poll honestly.

Now I must be off to do some good, like Happy child mind liberating or some such.

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 7, 2009 8:24 PM

Posted by: Guradian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 8:12 PM

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | July 7, 2009 8:27 PM

Guradian [sic] of the Polls wrote:

We surrender not [sic] my friend.

I'm not your friend, buddy.

Posted by: IvyMcAllister | July 7, 2009 8:30 PM

"14.) If life began hundreds of millions of years ago, why is the earth still under populated?"

You have GOT to be fecking kidding me.

Oh, and Guardian of the Poll (comment #86) *is* a spoof, right? A forum member having a laugh? Because he or she managed to cram so much of the typical, brain-dead-fundie rhetoric into one reply that I desperately need to believe it's an exercise in parody.

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 8:31 PM

@ Guradian: "Ponzi scheme." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 7, 2009 8:35 PM

The words gay and marriage together is equally annoying, but I have to live with it becuase of some sick perverts in the world.

Such a cute little insane bigot.

Posted by: Jason A. | July 7, 2009 8:37 PM

Guardian's the same fellow who's been following us around so he can 'tell on us' to poll owners. Was the name Rob? Whatever. It was cute the first time, but it's kind of disturbing now. Someone who makes it his righteous mission to save worthless internet polls must be seriously mentally unstable.

Posted by: Dirk Diggler | July 7, 2009 8:40 PM

I can do poll fornication. Just show me where to stick it.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself | July 7, 2009 8:45 PM

IvyMcAllister #96

Guradian [sic] of the Polls is another brain dead creationist, afraid of the word fuck, ignorant about evolution, ignorant about ponzi schemes, and with a hard-on for Nancy Pelosi.

Posted by: raven | July 7, 2009 8:49 PM

It was cute the first time, but it's kind of disturbing now.

I'm sure stalking is the least of his peculiarities.

We might be looking at the next Paul Hill, Michael Korn, or Scott Roeder. The xian terrorist organizations love these kind of nuts. They wind them up, point them in the right direction, and let nature take its course.

You don't think Terry Randall or Mary Kay Culper are going to get their hands bloody and spend the rest of their life in jail do you? They have better things to do.

Posted by: Graham | July 7, 2009 8:56 PM

He looks like a democrat to me. All those greedy fingers just woiting to get a hold of my money and give it to some abortion clinic that is in financial crisis.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Posted by: Hank Fox | July 7, 2009 8:59 PM

I was curious about who's behind all this.

The best I can tell, for those readers who need an equally cool Christian website, Ark Webs Ministries was apparently "created" by Ark Web Christian Web Hosting and Design:

David Campbell, 158 Grazing Meadows Drive, Jonesborough, Tenn., 37659-5489, 423-753-7569

What a weenie: On Google Street View, he doesn't even have an American flag outside his house. And not a crucifix in sight.

But then again, he lives in the right place. Jonesborough is home to the National Storytelling Center and National Storytelling Festival. I guess if you're dealing in websites devoted to fiction, that's the place to be.

Posted by: Fez | July 7, 2009 9:02 PM

@Guradian:

I'll grant you that at least you're consistent. You require no proof to justify your actions or opinions but instead consider your opinions to be fact, above reproach, and act on that assumption.

You better hope atheists are correct; if you had ever actually read and understood that book of Bronze Age myths you allege to live your life by you'd realize that your hubris is trespass on the domain of your god. What's the penalty for that, hmmmm?

Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | July 7, 2009 9:04 PM

'Guradian' wrote:

All those greedy fingers just woiting to get a hold of my money and give it to some abortion clinic that is in financial crisis.

It's a pity there weren't more abortion clinics around when your mother was pregnant with you, shit-for-brains; she might made the sensible choice and spared us the displeasure of your odious company.

Posted by: FatherNature | July 7, 2009 9:06 PM

Did someone forget to put out the troll repellent today? Between Grant over on the I Get Email thread and this intelligent & amusing fellow, Guardian, it's hard to pick a favorite. Ignore them. They'll soon lose interest and go back to beating off under the bridge.

Posted by: Graham | July 7, 2009 9:08 PM

Give me frededom. You can keep your change.

Frededom? Apparently, proper spelling and grammar have a well known liberal bias.

Posted by: Caine | July 7, 2009 9:12 PM

Hmmmm. I had a look around at http://www.arkwebs.com/ - this caught my eye:

"Co-Crucifixion. Have you made the following decision about sin—that it must be completely killed in you?" - Powered by Church Webs

Posted by: Dirk Diggler | July 7, 2009 9:16 PM

Lulz. The poll has 9500 votes with 99.6% going for evolution.

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 9:19 PM

Hoooooly crap look at that poll now. No matter how many times I see the results of a good, old-fashioned PZ poll crashing, it still amazes me.

Also, I see we've decided to go for "creation, now evolution" pretty overwhelmingly, eh? I'd have expected it to be split a little more evenly... meh.

Posted by: Brain Hertz | July 7, 2009 9:24 PM

Hurray! Guradian has learned how to use a spellchecker. Now onwards to defend frededom!

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 9:28 PM

What I want to know is, does Guardian (finally spelled correctly, so I guess I'll relent) dare to venture onto /b/ and bitch at them when they crash polls?

Posted by: Guradian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 9:36 PM

Did people just get dumber or something. Those poll indicates that 99 percent believe that the entire universe poofed into existance and all life on earth simply just heppeened without cause or purpose. Yet, I await to see which of those 99% collects the cahs reward for actually proving any of this conspiracy theory called evolution.

Okay, people I'm waiting. Someone go collect their reward now.

I have one more questions. I assume not that many conservatives (real ones) voted in the poll anyway. Sincere atheism is only about 3 to 5 percent of the population of the United states, in a real poll you would loose big time and no amount of poll fornication could win that. I guess some of that global warming combined with Sodomy unionism (not marriage) finnaly caught up with a small portion of the population. I guess that global warming reaaly did affect our brains more than I thought. i am proud to be in the .01 percent of normal people left on earth. Why should we even label conservatives anyway. We should just label liberals and leave normal people alone. We are a monority, but a proud one.

Posted by: mathyoo | July 7, 2009 9:37 PM

It shouldn't amaze me, but Exhibit 1 right off the bat proves how delusional they are. In the comparison between creationism and evolution, evolution matches the facts (for the most part) while the points they list for creationism contradict everything we know scientifically. Unbelievable.

Posted by: bumlet5 | July 7, 2009 9:41 PM

Gilgamesh, thank you for mentioning that. I noticed, and it had me rolling with laughter.

Posted by: Katherine | July 7, 2009 9:44 PM

Wow, you guys are kinda silly. I would have thought you'd have at least voted evolution to evolution. But then I guess I forgot your point was to make fun of all internet polls regardless of their question. Wish I could import you all to make fun of the ridiculous referendum we have going on in my country in August this year.

Posted by: Frink | July 7, 2009 9:48 PM

wow... I'm not sure if I've ever felt the urge to strangle somebody this strongly before.

Posted by: Medievalist Jon | July 7, 2009 9:51 PM

Guardian,

When you say "fornicators," does it echo?

Posted by: raven | July 7, 2009 9:54 PM

What if our local region of space has a big wall around it, with glow-in-the-dark stars and galaxies painted on? This is the sort of argument we need to start taking more seriously if we want to be fair to Creationists.

Heresy!!! The inerrant bible says the sky is a dome and the stars are just lights stuck on it.

Actually, some creationists believe exactly that. The bible also says the moon is a glow in the dark disk, the lesser light in the sky for night. They believe that too.
.

Posted by: felixthecat | July 7, 2009 9:55 PM

@ Guradian...

Fornicate? Are you as retarded as that site? The word you want, but are afraid of, is FUCK. Say it now, because I know that you are thinking it.

Posted by: Guradian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 10:01 PM

the points they list for creationism contradict everything we know scientifically.

---------

EXACTLY. "scientifically" is usually wrong these days. We need scientists to forget this evolution mess and go back to being real scientists who thought with their own brain instead of someone else's . Science is like being a detective. You cannot use a book to solve every case. At some point you have to forget what you know and go with what you feel is right. You have to forget what some professor says and use your own judgment. You have to forget the world and learn common sense. That's the only way to survive in any field including science. Evolution is not a science. It is the hijacking of certain elements of science and combining those elements to justify secularizing a society. The evolution movement is a leftwing movement. It is the hatred of all that is good and just. It is the movement away from God and toward evil. It is the justification in humanity rather than spirituality.

Many Christians do not even believe that Satan is an actual physical being as real as you and I. Why? Blmae liberalism for tenderizing reality for people. Hollywood has done a good job of reversing good and evil roles. Evil is good and good is evil. That's not right!

That is dangerous and it shows in today's youth. Every generation ets dumber and less spritual. Eventually this will be the downfall of America just as it was the downfall of Israel so many times. We have to kill liberalism and paganism and Hollywoodism and secualism if we are to survive as a nation.

We can start by reinstituting 1950s. Let's forget what happened in the 1960s and 1970s with all the crazies running around high on dope.

Let's return the Bible back to the classroom like it was so many years ago. Let's take evolution out. Let let prayer back in. Let take the ACLU out of our schools and prisons and ban that wretched organization once and for all. Then let's re-ban abortion, reinstate censoship of language and violence on tv and re-instate personal responsibility and civics classes in our schools. lets re-instatr shop classes for boy and home ec for girls and let put this country back like it once was. Otherwise, we will only continue down this downward spiral of sinfilled arrogance and somody we call life. This world is no place for children. This world corrupts them faster than they can be taught right from wrong. Liberalism poisons everything. it is the ultimate sin. It leads others to sin. Fighting it is useless, unless we fight it in mass numbers.

Let's take today's "evolution" and destroy it and exchnage it for some real science. My best subject in high school was anatomy. It was easy. So was Biology. I had physical science in high school and college and they were petty easy too. However, when evolution was mentioned and taught as absolutely irrefutible fact, I cringed at going. This crap kept me from studying science even further. You might say it turned me against science. Evolution is nothing more than a farce desiged to have a human desired greed afteraffect. Just ask Darwin what his personal agenda was. What was his justification in evolution? I think it was to justify his hatred for black people and his hatred for CHistianity. At least Hitler thought so. Nothing good has ever come from evolution. Only pain and death and secularization.

Posted by: damnedyankee | July 7, 2009 10:04 PM

Awww, isn't he cute? I could pinch his cheeks. And he still hasn't fixed the glaring spelling error in his screen name.

"'I believe God created me!'

"'Yeah, it looks like he rushed it...'" - Bill Hicks

Posted by: Joe | July 7, 2009 10:06 PM

That reward* is yours if you can fill in the frames below with living transitional forms from one kind to another as shown in the fictional example above.

This was just too good to pass up. Note, the asterisk leads to the equivalent of "I don't have any money, but surely evolutionists would raise it and give it too you". What really set this apart for me was the bit about "living transitional forms". If they're living, they aren't transitional. This person clearly has no idea how evolution works at all. The only living species will be the one that is best adapted for its niche - the "transitional" species won't be able to compete. Ironically the evolution of the eye is actually a great example of this. Going from simple light sensitive cells, to concave pits for direction, progressing to focusable lenses with thousands of photoreceptors is a beautiful proof of evolution. Hell, you can show him animals at different stages of eye evolution - from cave dwelling fish to mollusks all the way up to humans. Where's my million?

Posted by: djsutton | July 7, 2009 10:08 PM

As for the million dollar challenge, do you suppose that five living species evolving in turn could be satisfied by five members of a circle species, such as the salamanders in California or the gulls around the arctic circle?

Daniel Sutton

Posted by: Brain Hertz | July 7, 2009 10:13 PM

Guradian,
calm down before you give yourself an aneurism.

A large gin and tonic is probably what you need at this point.

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 10:14 PM

@ Guradian: "At some point you have to forget what you know and go with what you feel is right. You have to forget what some professor says and use your own judgment. You have to forget the world and learn common sense. That's the only way to survive in any field including science."

SCIENCE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!!

"Let's return the Bible back to the classroom like it was so many years ago. Let's take evolution out. Let let prayer back in. Let take the ACLU out of our schools and prisons and ban that wretched organization once and for all. Then let's re-ban abortion, reinstate censoship of language and violence on tv and re-instate personal responsibility and civics classes in our schools. lets re-instatr shop classes for boy and home ec for girls and let put this country back like it once was. Otherwise, we will only continue down this downward spiral of sinfilled arrogance and somody we call life. This world is no place for children. This world corrupts them faster than they can be taught right from wrong. Liberalism poisons everything. it is the ultimate sin. It leads others to sin. Fighting it is useless, unless we fight it in mass numbers."

What the FUCK do you morons have against the ACLU? No, really. Explain to me how an organization dedicated to PROTECTING THE SAME CIVIL FUCKING LIBERTIES THIS COUNTRY WAS FUCKING FOUNDED ON is evil.

As for the rest- oh, just fuck you. I hate to overuse the profanity here- I usually like to be more creative- but this entire thing is a load of crap. The 50's was a horrible period in our country's history, full of mindless, oppressive conformity, the fear of anything different, and just general repression to such a degree that the next two generations said "fuck it." You hate the hippies? They were the fault of your "perfect" society.

Re-instate censorship? What happened to the First Amendment?

Shop and Home Ec? We've got those in my high school. Only thing is, they're voluntary. I'd like to keep it that way, but if we don't, then at least give us fucking gender equality- none of this "home ec only for girls and shop only for guys." I'm a girl, and I'm a hell of a lot more comfortable with power tools than I am with a stove.

"At least Hitler thought so."

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/Obsidian_Dagger/gott_mit_uns.jpg

http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm
(note this quote: 6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).

Hitler was not a fucking evolutionist, nor an atheist. Get it through your head.

"Nothing good has ever come from evolution. Only ... secularization."

I genuinely fail to see how that's a bad thing.

Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | July 7, 2009 10:15 PM

Percy would wander for years at a time;
He was terribly sad and incredibly lonely—
Percy was looking for love, but too bad;
The world had, so far, evolved male creatures only.

Percy was restless, and anxiously watching,
He knew what he wanted; he wanted a wife.
(Although, since the female had not yet evolved,
He had never seen women in all of his life!)

For long generations, his forefathers sought
For some womanly tenderness, softness, and mercy,
But cold evolution denied them their wish;
Now the burden was borne by poor, motherless Percy.

From Grand-dad to Father, from Father to Son,
Generations would pass, without calling for sex.
I haven’t a clue how they managed to do it;
The method, it seems, is a little complex.

Percy has walked tens of thousands of miles
In search of a hopeful mutation or two.
You see, he has parts that he thinks may be useful,
Which haven’t, as yet, had a damned thing to do.

Far away, on the shores of a vast, distant ocean,
A small population is camped by the water,
Where all by themselves, they just sit there evolving,
Granny to Mother, and Mother to Daughter.

Someday, perhaps, as he wanders and wanders,
Percy could find, with a great deal of luck,
He may stumble upon this remote population,
And finally end up with someone to love.

http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2009/07/lonely-percy.html

Posted by: OurDeadSelves | July 7, 2009 10:19 PM

Blmae liberalism for tenderizing reality for people.

Whoops, there goes the spell-check.

Posted by: RobertDW | July 7, 2009 10:22 PM

I remember reading one model of sexual evolution which hinted how males may have evolved first.

The model starts with asexual reproduction - results in slow evolution, as changes can't cross between lineages. Any change which allows for interchange of genetic information (sexual reproduction) will cause faster evolution.

Assume (for the model) you end up with hermaphrodites - individuals can both transmit and receive genetic information. This seems likely as it doesn't require specialisation.

A mutation that strengthens transmitting genetic information will be spread faster - a single proto-male can spread 'his' proto-sperm over a larger pool of receivers. This will encourage development of a 'male' gender, because mutations that weaken receiving genetic information won't be penalised as much (due to the strong transmitting effect).

By converse, a mutation that strengthens receiving information can only spread downwards (unless it can piggyback on the 'male' genes, but that's for second generation effect). So any 'proto-female' is going to have a hard time standing out in the crowd of hermaphrodites.

It's been a while, and I'm not a biologist, but the model went on to show how the XY/XX pattern (common to mammals - a different but similar pattern with birds) is the fastest transmitting variant for land animals - you get the strong transmission effect (the male chromosome), coupled with a way to spread strong receiving effects (every male also has a female chromosome).

But different effects rule liquid environments (which is why most fish & amphibians change gender through their life), and with plant reproduction.

So - Male AND Female He Created Them - both at the same time. :) True Males and Females came later...

Posted by: dogmeatIB | July 7, 2009 10:25 PM

PZ,

You're getting a bill for all of the brain cells that committed suicide after being exposed to that toxic collection of stooooopid.

I agree with the others who said the most effective response to the quiz was ... what???

On the transitionals page, this guy either put this page together years ago, or he refuses to acknowledge Tiktaalik in his "fish with feet" section. No actual fossils, just drawings? The level of bullshit on this site suggests either a poe, or total bug-fucking-nuts.

Posted by: Religion™ Brand Brain Staples | July 7, 2009 10:33 PM

RE: Living transitional

Think outside the box! Or rather, think inside very small boxes. This has already been done.

Nylon eating bacteria. Experimental replication of the chain of mutations. Population snapshots.

Everything you need to win* is right there. Evolution is trivial reproducible with a big enough enough population and a fast enough generation time, which bacteria are only too happy to provide us with.

*As soon as this evidence is presented, the goalposts will be moved. But nylon-eating bacteria are still really cool... They're in your polymers eating your carbons. ;)

Posted by: Religion™ Brand Brain Staples | July 7, 2009 10:36 PM

Ick. Sorry for all the errors in my post... clearly reading all those posts by "Guradian" is having a negative effect on my communication skills ;^_^

Posted by: speedwell | July 7, 2009 10:45 PM

Hey Guradian, didn't I see you at the Tea Party on Saturday?

You may have been the woman (I'm not calling her a lady) who spat at me when I shouted "Liar" at the moron who claimed the "blessings" of liberty could come only from "God." You may have been the guy who shouted "Hell, yeah" when Governor Perry hinted broadly at "the situation on our Southern border," scaring all hell out of my eight-year-old nephew, whose mother is a Mexican immigrant (and, incidentally, a conservative). You may have been the fat idiot carrying a misspelled sign that called for the death penalty against women who get abortions. You might have been the ignorant hick woman who was whining to her friend that there wasn't enough religion at the rally. You might have been the man hissing and booing whenever a speaker said the word "Muslim," regardless of context. Or, you might have been the shadowy figure I saw fellating Joe the Plumber behind the grandstand... actually, I made that up, but I didn't make up the rest.

You're a disgusting, ignorant creep, clinging madly to ignorance, pretending to have all the answers, reciting right-wing extremist, fake-Christian blasphemy like a magic spell, expecting us to be slain by your schizoid rhetoric when the only thing we're likely to die of is laughing, you pathetic piece of shit.

Oh, and I'm no left-winger myself... ask anyone here, if you can get anyone to listen to you.

Posted by: euterpe42 | July 7, 2009 10:52 PM

I loved the test. I was giggling so hard while reading it. They obviously have no understanding whatsoever of evolution.

My favorite question: "If life began hundreds of millions of years ago, why is the earth still under populated?"

....do they not realize the problem of overpopulation? Of course not, they're the same ones who are trying to stop women from deciding whether or not they want to have kids.

Posted by: Josh West | July 7, 2009 10:53 PM

Are we sure this isn't a Poe?

Posted by: speedwell | July 7, 2009 10:56 PM

Josh West @ #177: Are we sure this isn't a Poe?

As far as I understand what a Poe is supposed to be, if we were sure, it wouldn't be a Poe.

Right, guys?

Posted by: syzygy | July 7, 2009 10:59 PM

Guardian do you realize that your life is dependent of the beliefs and groups you lambasted? You are a beneficiary of government aid every time you send a kid to school, go to church or heck even buy something. Most churches and nonprofits receive tax benefits and government aid, companies often get money from the government as well. If you've ever watch a sports team, many of the stadiums have been partially funded by local and state governments.

And don't get me started on unions. The easy lifestyle that you get is in part because of unions. If you've ever been employed, the weekends off, occasional bonuses and vacation time that companies give you is due to the sacrifice of past unions. Without them, you would not have employee sponsored healthcare, pensions etc. Not to mention you would probably be working at not even minimum wage because it was the work of unions that forced the government to impose that.

Oh and scientists. Special relativity is the reason your computer exists. Medical science is the reason you're probably still alive. Mechanics and Newtonian science is the reason we have cars, TV's etc. Without science we would still be living in mud huts and farming with wooden plows and oxen.

And I won't even get into evolution. Without you wouldn't exist.

Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 7, 2009 11:03 PM

(You know, it seems rather obvious to me that "Guardian" and "Guradian" aren't necessarily the same person, and I don't think anyone has brought that up yet.)

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 11:07 PM

Peterd102:

You are wrong. Creationists do beleive that neaderthals existed. We believe they were another species or race of humans. That's like saying Asians do not exist. Of course they exist. I know you are not a creationist, but I do encourage yout to read AIG's website about Neanderthals to see what we believe about them. We do not believe them to be dumb brutes as they are protrayed in the media. The media still portay modern males this way though. You have to haved noticed that by now.

Posted by: Dagger | July 7, 2009 11:11 PM

@Guardian:

Hardly since both lived at exactly the same time according to the Bible.

You keep referencing the Bible. Mind giving us any proof of its accuracy?

As for species evolving- how about the Caribbean island lizards? One species of lizard was introduced to a variety of lizard-free islands in the Caribbean. There are now over 150 species of lizard on those islands. (http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/evol/lizard.html)? Or maybe the lizards introduced to Croatia that developed "a completely new gut structure, larger heads, and a harder bite" (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html)? Or what about the two different ways that different bacteria have evolved to be able to eat nylon? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria) I'm sure people more familiar with evolutionary science and the evidence for it could give better examples.

Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble | July 7, 2009 11:19 PM

Dear Brother Poll Guardian,

Praise the Lord for your belief in Neanderthals! Within the warm confines of your tolerance, I feel safe in revealing that we Batzrubbles are long forgotten descendants of Neanderthals. And you are correct, we are not as dumb as people think! I myself am the keeper of the last Neanderthal Bible. It has a family tree that goes back some 175,000 years to the clan patriarch Bob Batzrubble. In my Neanderthal Bible it says, quite clearly in Genesis 1:1 'In the beginning Man created God, by which time life had been evolving for many billions of years.'

Sob. For this heresy Homo Sapiens wiped us out. They said their God needed some scapegoats, and we were it.

Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | July 7, 2009 11:30 PM

Speedwell wrote:

As far as I understand what a Poe is supposed to be, if we were sure, it wouldn't be a Poe. Right, guys?

I think that's would be meeting the formal definition of Poe's Law, yes.

But, from what I can tell, the standalone term 'Poe' is becoming common to describe someone posting as if they were, in fact, some kind of woo-soaked Christian retard for whatever reason (to irritate, like Garuniad; or amuse, like Smoggy)- paradox notwithstanding.

Posted by: JohnnieCanuck | July 7, 2009 11:33 PM

So many possibilities - Poe; more than one person at the keyboard; multiple personality disorder; self medication with uppers and downers; I have the feeling I'm missing some possibilities.

Who gurads the guradians?

We need someone to take the responsibility for keeping this poor specimen from harming himself or others.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 7, 2009 11:38 PM

Praise the Lord for your belief in creationists! Within the warm confines of your tolerance, I feel safe in revealing that we Guardians are long forgotten descendants of Adam. And you are correct, we are not as dumb as people think! I myself am the keeper of the Bible. It has a family tree that goes back some 6,000 years. In my Bible it says, quite clearly in Genesis 1:1 'In the beginning God created Man, by which time life had been corrupted for many years.'

Sob. For this heresy Homo Sexuals wiped us out. They said their lustful desires needed some scapegoats, and we were it.

Posted by: hje | July 7, 2009 11:41 PM

Faux-Guardian: Now you're just making a fool of yourself. How pathetic.

Posted by: Southern Comfort | July 7, 2009 11:50 PM

OK I lied and am going to hell but I just couldn't help myself. I said I first believed in creation but after visiting the "museum" I now believe in evolution.

Wait--I just noticed 22000 other people voted the same way.

At least I will be in good comapny in hell.

Posted by: Ryan | July 8, 2009 12:06 AM

4. Why hasn't any extinct creature re-evolved after millions of years?

I saw this on the Science Channel but I may not have fully understood what meant. Apparently the sabre-toothed tiger has done this very thing multiple times.

Posted by: meh1963 | July 8, 2009 12:18 AM

I'd say that Guradian (whose misspelling sounds like a relative of William Saroyan) is a poe for sure, but I've met people who think like that in the last four weeks. Sigh.

Posted by: The Other Ian | July 8, 2009 12:29 AM

#202:

Better, just replace "for i in range(1,100):" with "while True:"

I intend to leave it running all night.

Posted by: raven | July 8, 2009 12:48 AM

A satanic religion would look a lot like guardian's brand of death cult xianity. Complete with a sadistic, not very bright monster of a god.

When xian becomes synonymous with Liar, Hater, Ignorant, Crazy, and sometimes Killer, who would want to be one?

The guardians are killing the religion in the USA. Between 1 and 2 million people leave the xian religion every year. Who would want to be a member of a death cult of ignorance and hate like that? Not me, I left it and hope it dies before it kills us and the country.
PS I know a Death Cult xian a lot like him. He's big into calling other xians Fake Xians and thinks his own lunatic brand is the Only Real Xianity. He's also deranged but fortunately very old. From Tennessee and, if the ID of guardian is correct, they could be neighbors. Doesn't look like Tennessee has any plans for joining the 20th century much less the 21st.

PSS I'm sure he is a faith healing Rapture Monkey as well. Many of these guys collect delusions and weave them into elaborate tapestries of conspiracy.

Posted by: Jeff S | July 8, 2009 12:56 AM

I think creationists would accept evolution if they knew what it was.

Posted by: Aquaria | July 8, 2009 1:04 AM

10. Explain why something as complex as human life could happen by chance, but something as simple as a coin must have a creator. (Show your math solution.)

BWAHAHAHAHAH⁄A!

Oh, how precious!

Does he mean the odds of humans existing? Then the "math solution" would be 1:1. Because we do exist, thanks to evolution by natural selection.

Duz I winz teh Net?

Posted by: raven | July 8, 2009 1:12 AM

4. Why hasn't any extinct creature re-evolved after millions of years?

Didn't bother to address guardian. Close minded Kooks like that just ignore anything you post, why bother.

But 4 is an interesting question with a simple answer. It has. Convergent evolution happens constantly, enough that many, many books have been written on exactly that subject. Conway Morris has one and IIRC, his arch nemesis Gould also wrote one.

1. Ichthyosaurs, Mosasaurs, and dolphins all look superficially alike even though the reptiles came from lizards and dolphins from land ungulates.

2. Flying vertebrates evolved several times. Front limbs became wings in pterosaurs, birds, and bats.

3. Saber toothed cats evolved 2 or 3 times in North America and there was also a marsupial form.

4. A lot of placental mammals have analogues among the marsupials, marsupial wolves and so on.

Of course they aren't exact. Evolution predicts that. Different starting points leave their history in the final forms, and a lot of evolution is contingent. Who needs a whooly mammoth today, the ice age is over. If it comes back, there will be whooly whatevers derived from non whooly whatevers.

Posted by: ambulocetus | July 8, 2009 1:32 AM

Remember to copy and paste the links so that they don't know that we are all coming from the same place.

Posted by: Timothy | July 8, 2009 1:42 AM

I didn't see any choices for the vote. Did my adblocker stop them or is their crappy site just fucked even worse than it looks?

Posted by: David Harper | July 8, 2009 1:48 AM

Timothy #217:

The questions have been removed from the poll page, but the "Vote" button is still there. I checked the page's HTML source. And I don't use an adblocker, so that't not the explanation.

Posted by: arachnophilia | July 8, 2009 2:24 AM

we should totally submit stuff for their reward. it would be fun. i mean, nevermind that it's a blatant double standard (millions of years, AND all alive today?) and a complete misunderstanding of evolution. i bet we could come up with something that would fit their ridiculous requirements.

also, i notice that they are not awarding the prize. the expect scientists to come up with it, because a series of five pictures will finally prove what every biologists has had much better proof of for years.

Posted by: The Archduchess | July 8, 2009 2:54 AM

I spent the last hour and a half writing a calm response to the Evolution Test and providing sources about fish with feet. I hope they email me back--though I doubt it.

Someone is wrong on the Internet--and we've got to stop them. No sleep for me!

(I'm a new reader, and I'm absolutely in love with everything here. The sound, scientific facts, that is. And Terry Pratchett quotes.)

Posted by: Geoff | July 8, 2009 2:58 AM

Why suggest cocaine was responsible for the guy's 'understanding'? More likely white lightening and crystal meth.

Posted by: AlanWCan | July 8, 2009 4:25 AM

FAQ: Who wrote this Missing Universe Museum web site?

whois missinguniversemuseum.com

Registrant:
Ark Webs Ministries
167 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States

Registered through: Christian Domains
Domain Name: MISSINGUNIVERSEMUSEUM.COM
Created on: 08-May-02
Expires on: 08-May-10
Last Updated on: 17-Apr-09

Administrative Contact:
Administrator, Domain aw.domain.admin@gmail.com
Ark Webs Ministries
167 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States
4237536193 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Administrator, Domain aw.domain.admin@gmail.com
Ark Webs Ministries
167 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States
4237536193 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS5.EV1SERVERS.NET
NS6.EV1SERVERS.NET

whois arkwebsministries.com
Registrant:
Ark Webs Ministries
158 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States

Registered through: Christian Domains
Domain Name: ARKWEBSMINISTRIES.COM
Created on: 19-Feb-02
Expires on: 19-Feb-10
Last Updated on: 26-Jan-09

Administrative Contact:
Campbell, David domain-admin@arkwebs.com
Ark Webs Ministries
158 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States
4237536193 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Campbell, David domain-admin@arkwebs.com
Ark Webs Ministries
158 Grazing Meadows Dr.
Jonesborough, Tennessee 37659
United States
4237537569 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.EV1SERVERS.NET
NS2.EV1SERVERS.NET

ark-web-design.com (ARK-WEB-DESIGN.COM) is for sale

He's 50. Born (first time) April 25, 1959

This is from his tangle page:

I just wanted to tell you a little about myself. My name is David Campbell, also know as knowhim on GodTube. I am an online evangelist working as a web developer/designer for Ark Web Design - Christian Hosting. I am also the webmaster of Fish the Net - The Online Evangelistic Tackle Box. I live in Jonesborough, Tennessee. If you ever have any questions about how to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, please email me (david@fishthe.net). Go to http://fishthe.net/david.htm to read my testimony, in which you will see I have not always known the Lord Jesus Christ. I am so glad others prayed for me and witnessed to me

That's him on the left (hey, how do you post images in comments?)

And he sounds like the typical out of control roaring substance abuser turned to jeebus to me. Nowhere in his little biog did I find anything suggesting that he has any background at all to justify his confidence that he understands anything he thinks he does.

He's also a spammer for jeebus

I'm bored with this one now.

Posted by: Joe | July 8, 2009 4:34 AM

Keep all aspects of Eurpean government at least 10,000 miles away from at all times.

Hmm. Perhaps you can ask your sky monster for some special geography? Paris is only 3635 miles from New York, so a 10,000 mile separation between the US and Europe would be a bit difficult...

Playing with the trolls is fun! (Also, I totally call Poe)

Posted by: Falcon | July 8, 2009 5:10 AM

@Guradian: Conservatives are experts at poll-crashing. The conservative website Free Republic pioneered the practice. It is for this reason that poll-crashing is often called "freeping" -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic . You can't really blame liberals if they want to join in the fun.

Posted by: JThompson | July 8, 2009 6:06 AM

I'm fairly certain Guradian is a troll and can be ignored.
The only real problem in what he writes is switching two letters around in some words....and he's consistent with that. The writing style doesn't match the content at all.
With that much batshit in a post, I at least expect random capitalization and no punctuation at all.
I did laugh a bit when he called us "Poll fornicators".

Posted by: Josh | July 8, 2009 6:30 AM

Hold on there--convergence, while very cool, is absolutely not even remotely the same thing as an extinct organism re-evolving. Functional similarity of form does not the same organism make.

Posted by: cyan | July 8, 2009 6:37 AM

re: Guardian's comments at 148 (and 149):

(so many things he wrote: warped, but I'm focusing on this:
"My best subject in high school was anatomy. It was easy."

Let me guess: the class was all about the human body, which interests him the most, or the all. And the information presented was that about the idealized human body: always the perfect specimens, and in the age range of say 25-35.

This limited presentation of anatomy/physiology information assumes the student has an extensive background in the real variations found consistently in the current and past real world, and so can adequately place it in context.

Not all, and probably few, have that background and so can put it in context.

An anatomy/physiology class which starts with those idealizations: necessary, but not sufficient for understanding.

The more examples of the extensive variations from the ideal that actually occur, and the more inclusions of comparisons of the human body to other mammalian bodies and to other animal bodies, both living and extinct, the better understanding of the flow of life a student may come away with.

If a student such as Guardian had been presented with that additional information in that anatomy class, I think that either he would not be thinking so ignorantly as he has shown from his posts or he would not have found it easy.

Posted by: Elwood Herring | July 8, 2009 6:54 AM

raven #206: That's why I never insult loony trolls despite the mad craving to do so. I don't want the cops knocking on my door accusing me of pushing some nutter "over the edge" into a killing spree. I stick to referring to them in the 3rd person as much as possible, and concentrate on refuting the arguments (if there are any coherent ones that is!)

Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 8, 2009 7:36 AM

parody trolls may be a lower form of humanity than real trolls, right "Guardian"?

Posted by: ??? | July 8, 2009 7:48 AM

Looks like all the poll numbers have been reset to zero.

Posted by: strangebrew | July 8, 2009 9:06 AM

They have now rigged the pole...

There is no vote button...I could find...there are no choices that can be clicked and during faffing around looking for vote button the site suddenly informs you that you have already voted...but does not reveal the results...

I sense the poll was not going quite as they hoped and a certain amount of irrationality is occurring that is creeping in under cover of freaked fingers in lugholes and loud lah lahing.......or is that out and out lying for jeebus!...I leave that conclusion to the good readers...

Posted by: Lynx | July 8, 2009 9:27 AM

#86

Becuase one day victory will be ours for the taking and it will last for eternity. Are you ready to be defeated yet? Give up. You may be winning the battles, but we already won the war. In the end, we will prevail. We surrender not my friend. We fight until the very end and claim victory at last.

If you've "already won" why are you still fighting? Makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts: i.e. none.

Posted by: Lynx | July 8, 2009 9:44 AM

We can start by reinstituting 1950s. Let's forget what happened in the 1960s and 1970s with all the crazies running around high on dope.

Oh, how cute. "Guradian" doesn't even know recent history. As though there weren't a ton of people in the 50s "running around high on dope". Ah, those beloved 1950s. The era of nuclear war paranoia, institutionalized racism, swingers parties, burgeoning pornography, the Red Scare and blacklisting, biker gangs and widespread alcoholism and drug use. No wonder conservatives love it so.

Posted by: Black Jack Shellac | July 8, 2009 9:51 AM

I simply love how the christians continually trot out this claim that the "end times" are upon us, even though Jesus (allegedly) stated in the Bible (that inerrant source of God's wisdom - transcribed by iron-age schizophrenic humans) that those times would happen in the disciples' lifetime. Major bloody fail.

Posted by: A Hermit | July 8, 2009 10:19 AM

LOL! POLL DOWN! POLL DOWN!

There are no choices to vote for, and all the totals have been reset to zero...

Cowards...

Posted by: Gruesome Rob | July 8, 2009 10:36 AM

If the pollster sets the poll up right, you can't vote repeatedly

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too?

The only way to do that is two factor authentication against some government issued ID. Not very easy or practical. If you're talking internet based, there's no way to do it. IP? You block out AOL pretty quickly;killing a large chunk of the net after one or two responses is not a good idea. E-mail? I have an infinite number of e-mail addresses. Cookies? Clearing cookies is trivial; People have posted scripts here for it for various polls.

Posted by: Brain Hertz | July 8, 2009 11:24 AM

It almost seems like a caricature of a creationist site. There's no actual physical museum that I can find mentioned, all the pictures are cartoonish at best, the arguments are too far-fetched, and the writing is like that of a middle-schooler.

As compared to...?

Posted by: Steve_C | July 8, 2009 11:59 AM

I think they reset the poll on purpose. You can't vote now.

Posted by: catgirl | July 8, 2009 1:10 PM

That evolution test on their website was the easiest test I've ever taken!

1. Which evolved first, male or female?

Trick question; they evolved at the same time.

2. How many millions of years elapsed between the first male and first female?

Zero

3. List at least 9 of the false assumptions made with radioactive dating methods.

There are none.

4. Why hasn't any extinct creature re-evolved after millions of years?

Selective conditions are not the same as they were millions of years ago, among many other reasons.

5. Which came first:
...the eye,
...the eyelid,
...the eyebrow,
...the eye sockets,
...the eye muscles,
...the eye lashes,
...the tear ducts,
...the brain's interpretation of light?

Again, they evolved together, although it's most likely that light-detecting cells evolved along with nervous system interpretation of the signals, and then the rest evolved as the primitive eye continued to evolve.

6. How many millions of years between each in question 5?

Zero

7. If we all evolved from a common ancestor, why can't all the different species mate with one another and produce fertile offspring?

Do to geographic separation and other types of separation, gametes evolved to become too physically and chemically different from each other in different species. Also, in the cases where two gametes from different species can form a fertilized egg, the conflicting developmental signals from each set of DNA start to develop and organism that will miscarry due to deformities. Species are largely defined by their ability to breed, so wondering why species can't interbreed is basically asking why species fit the definition of a species.

8. List any of the millions of creatures in just five stages of its evolution showing the progression of a new organ of any kind. When you have done this, you can collect the millions of dollars in rewards offered for proof of evolution!

I'm not a biologist so I don't know of any specific examples, but I do know the basic stages of circulatory system development. I have no idea why it's considered necessary to have just 5 stages of development.

9. Why is it that the very things that would prove Evolution (transitional forms) are still missing?

They aren't missing. Willfully ignoring evidence does not mean that it is actually missing.

10. Explain why something as complex as human life could happen by chance, but something as simple as a coin must have a creator. (Show your math solution.)

Coins do not reproduce. Here's my math. 1 coin + 1 coin = 2 coins. 1 human + 1 human can equal 3 humans, given enough time. Reproduction is necessary to pass on traits.

11. Why aren't any fossils or coal or oil being formed today?

Fossils, coal, and oil are being formed today.

12. List 50 vestigial or useless organs or appendages in the human body.

Although there are several organs that may be considered vestigial, there are no useless organs in the human body.

13. Why hasn't anyone collected the millions of dollars in rewards for proof of evolution?

Evolution deniers will not accept any amount of evidence. Therefore, they will never give the money to anyone for any reason.

14. If life began hundreds of millions of years ago, why is the earth still under populated?

The earth is not under-populated. There is life almost everywhere. Even the most inhospitable locations usually host extremophile bacteria.

15. Why hasn't evolution duplicated all species on all continents?

Selective pressures are not the same on all continents. However, similar environments have often produced similar organisms. This is called "convergent evolution".

Posted by: Alexis | July 8, 2009 1:17 PM

That sight is clearly not the result of "intelligent deisgn". It looks like the websites I made on geocities in middle school in celebration of Johnny Depp.

Have you seen the "vestigial organs" thing? Absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, reading this kind of crap is getting me closer and closer to atheism.

Posted by: dogmeatIB | July 8, 2009 1:59 PM

I did laugh a bit when he called us "Poll fornicators".

*chuckle* I found that amusing as well, a little dinner, a little dancing, a little poll...

It appears we fornicated this poll to death ... whoops.

One of the other parts I enjoyed:

The population issue: Obviously the guy has never heard of Malthus ... or the black death ... or cholera ... or typhus ... or ...

---------------------------
Guardian, I am pretty sure, is a Poe. But, really, at this point, it doesn't matter since he's gone beyond a funny creationist parody over to he might as well be a creationist because he's just as annoying as one.

I do so love the "let's roll the clock back to the 50's" bullshyte:

We've seen he wants to reinstall sexism and that bogus Ozzy & Harriet society. Question is, what about segregation? Do those "uppity colored folk" need to get back into "their place" as well? Are we going to restore HUAC? How are people going to pay for everything? The reality is we need dual income for households to survive in the 21st century, how do we return to the 'perfect' 1950s while at the same time not utterly destroying our economy and reducing nearly every household in America to abject poverty?

Posted by: (((Billy))) The Atheist | July 8, 2009 2:21 PM

I took a look at that test. Now, keep in mind, I'm an historian. Even I could see the flaws in the questions. Sometimes I reach a point on my blog (with a reality-challenged commenter) where trying to argue the points becomes pointless. The absurdity is so far out there that the only thing I can do is patiently explain that the sky really is not plaid. Because the absurdities are right up there with that claim.

Posted by: pdferguson | July 8, 2009 3:30 PM

We are a monority, but a proud one.

Actually, I think you meant to say "We are a moronity, but a loud one."

Posted by: Caymen Paolo Diceda | July 8, 2009 5:42 PM

I wrote him a note:
I hope you realize that that all of the "exhibits" on your website have been addressed and dismissed for many years?

It astonishes me and most other scientists that this evolution/creation debate still goes on. Take a look at (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html) for a detailed discussion of why your exhibits are non-sense. This website backs its claims with peer reviewed scientific publications in contrast to yours which has none.

Get over it. The world is 4.5 billion years old and evolution has created all its wonderous diversity. Young Earth Creationism is just intellectual poverty that denies how wonderful our world really is and disparages God's real creation through science.

ICR? Scientists? There are always a few, no more than a dozen or two in the entire world who profess creationism. And they are generally outside their area of expertise. Notice how the thousands and millions of serious scientists out there do not take them seriously and their ideas cannot pass peer review in any serious scientific debate.

A reward for "proof of evolution." Kent Hovind has one for $250,000 and no one has claimed it! And that proves that evolution is false! Make me laugh. Always fighting a rear-guard action he moves the goal posts when confronted by evidence. See (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html).

Alone among western countries America seems to persist in this medieval superstition of creationism because of our obsession with a literal reading of the Bible. This is an embarrassment. See what one of our emminent Biblical scholars has to say: "Of course it’s not meant to be understood literally, the early Christians seem to sigh across the centuries." Karen Armstrong in The Case for God: What Religion Really Means by Karen Armstrong.

------------
Ok I don't have any religious beliefs like I imply, but creationists seem to regularly confuse atheism with evolution and then get hopelessly off the rails. I also ran across an interesting .pdf on a christian website that I could hardly believe when I read through it. (http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wonderly2006.pdf) It nicely takes YEC to task for ignoring scientific evidence for the age of the universe in the bible-babble that they understand. One christian beating on another!

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 7:45 PM

No, Jesus Christ rules our church. He is the head of the church and the government cannot chnage that although they are trying. Yes we may have to comply with big brother mandates for now, but one day big brother will answer to the head of the church. Then we'll really see who's in charge.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 7:52 PM

Billy the Atheist:

Are you a real historian or a left wing hate American Christain heritage revisionist historian? There is a difference.

Posted by: Josh | July 8, 2009 8:08 PM

Then we'll really see who's in charge.

Yeah--Odin of course.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 8:09 PM

We've seen he wants to reinstall sexism and that bogus Ozzy & Harriet society. Question is, what about segregation? Do those "uppity colored folk" need to get back into "their place" as well? Are we going to restore HUAC? How are people going to pay for everything? The reality is we need dual income for households to survive in the 21st century, how do we return to the 'perfect' 1950s while at the same time not utterly destroying our economy and reducing nearly every household in America to abject poverty?

------------------

Nothi ng was said about sexism, segregation, etc. Learn to read.

I was talking about moral principles. Yes we can survive a single person income. Many already do it. My mother never worked outside of the home and we alays made it just fine. We may not have had a lexus and mansion with a big screen tv, but we alway had clothes on our back and food on the table.

Throw away the credit cards, use cash. Next, stop spending money you do not have on things you do not need. If you can barely afford to eat lunch, common sense dictates you cannot afford a new Porshe. If you make less than $30,000 a yea like me, you do not buy a $350,000 house. Common sense says that I cannot afford the payments. Live within your means. Stop spending money on fast food, satellite tv, and the like. Use yo money on things you need and can afford.

There are families out there with a single income source that may not have all of the world's precious luxuries, but they have thier needs met.

The government could learn a lesson here as well. They should not spen more than they take in in taxes. Not only that, but they should save 10 percent of all their income for emergencies. The 10 percent rule should not just apply to christians. It is an effective money management strategy.

Get some common sense.

Yes I do wish we had 1950s tv back. it certainly better than the trashy garbage on now. A word of advice to christian parents: Burn your tv (and the biology book - chapter on evolution) and spend time with your kids. They'll profit from it considerably down the road.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 8:12 PM

We've seen he wants to reinstall sexism and that bogus Ozzy & Harriet society. Question is, what about segregation? Do those "uppity colored folk" need to get back into "their place" as well? Are we going to restore HUAC? How are people going to pay for everything? The reality is we need dual income for households to survive in the 21st century, how do we return to the 'perfect' 1950s while at the same time not utterly destroying our economy and reducing nearly every household in America to abject poverty?

------------------

Nothi ng was said about sexism, segregation, etc. Learn to read.

I was talking about moral principles. Yes we can survive a single person income. Many already do it. My mother never worked outside of the home and we alays made it just fine. We may not have had a lexus and mansion with a big screen tv, but we alway had clothes on our back and food on the table.

Throw away the credit cards, use cash. Next, stop spending money you do not have on things you do not need. If you can barely afford to eat lunch, common sense dictates you cannot afford a new Porshe. If you make less than $30,000 a yea like me, you do not buy a $350,000 house. Common sense says that I cannot afford the payments. Live within your means. Stop spending money on fast food, satellite tv, and the like. Use yo money on things you need and can afford.

There are families out there with a single income source that may not have all of the world's precious luxuries, but they have thier needs met.

The government could learn a lesson here as well. They should not spen more than they take in in taxes. Not only that, but they should save 10 percent of all their income for emergencies. The 10 percent rule should not just apply to christians. It is an effective money management strategy.

Get some common sense.

Yes I do wish we had 1950s tv back. it certainly better than the trashy garbage on now. A word of advice to christian parents: Burn your tv (and the biology book - chapter on evolution) and spend time with your kids. They'll profit from it considerably down the road.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 8:14 PM

We've seen he wants to reinstall sexism and that bogus Ozzy & Harriet society. Question is, what about segregation? Do those "uppity colored folk" need to get back into "their place" as well? Are we going to restore HUAC? How are people going to pay for everything? The reality is we need dual income for households to survive in the 21st century, how do we return to the 'perfect' 1950s while at the same time not utterly destroying our economy and reducing nearly every household in America to abject poverty?

------------------

Nothi ng was said about sexism, segregation, etc. Learn to read.

I was talking about moral principles. Yes we can survive a single person income. Many already do it. My mother never worked outside of the home and we alays made it just fine. We may not have had a lexus and mansion with a big screen tv, but we alway had clothes on our back and food on the table.

Throw away the credit cards, use cash. Next, stop spending money you do not have on things you do not need. If you can barely afford to eat lunch, common sense dictates you cannot afford a new Porshe. If you make less than $30,000 a yea like me, you do not buy a $350,000 house. Common sense says that I cannot afford the payments. Live within your means. Stop spending money on fast food, satellite tv, and the like. Use yo money on things you need and can afford.

There are families out there with a single income source that may not have all of the world's precious luxuries, but they have thier needs met.

The government could learn a lesson here as well. They should not spen more than they take in in taxes. Not only that, but they should save 10 percent of all their income for emergencies. The 10 percent rule should not just apply to christians. It is an effective money management strategy.

Get some common sense.

Yes I do wish we had 1950s tv back. it certainly better than the trashy garbage on now. A word of advice to christian parents: Burn your tv (and the biology book - chapter on evolution) and spend time with your kids. They'll profit from it considerably down the road.

Posted by: Steve_C | July 8, 2009 8:21 PM

Fuckwit posts 6 times without reading the message.

Fuckwit is a fuckwit.

Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 8, 2009 10:19 PM

Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.

---------

Come again? I dont't speak this language. My native language is english - with a deep southern accent. This is my native language since my native country is America. Some do not seem to understand the concept of borders, lanuage, and culture. Our official language here is english my boy. Please do refrain from the Germanese, Latinese, Chinese, and all other eses unless you are actually from that group of people and have a need to speak the language here.

No speaking english is not racist. I fail to see the connection.

-----------

I do not want to burn all books and all things. Just a few - starting with the origin of species. If I cannot burn it, can I at least change its genre to science fiction? That would help alot. It would also explain why modern apes carry light sabers and why A hippopotamus says grace before grazing on posion ivy in Mississippi. The theory (all it ever was)of evilution (pun intended) makes about as much sense as blue pancakes sliding down an onion hilsides wearking a red dress and screaming for nails in the head. \

The theory of darwinism says that two monkeys got together and fornicated with Aunt Jemima to create atheists that would one day wipe out civilization becuase no female was attracked to bearded brainiacs with 1 inch penises that glows in the dark from too much radiometric dating tests.

Forget global warming, the world will end if science keeps growing. Mad scientists will be our doom says Darwin.

The Darwinites often yell about normal people laughing at them, but they still refuse to stand on the Ocean and proclaim liberty from the Queeen of the Octopi from whence they came.

When their blue frogs met with their purple men and mated for the first time, socialism was born, says Darwin.

Fir crying out loud, I forgot all about the red golf course over at the blue lagoon across from the pancake syrup that I spilled on the ingrown tonail this morning. I guess puingiuns really do love calculus at midnight when the sun is at it brightest.

Get it yet? If not, don't feel bad. I feel the same way about darwinism. Only I make more cents.

I had five dollars and gave away two to three poeple four days ago. Yesterday I inhereted a quarter and gave it to my best friend's son's girlfriend's sisiter-in-law. She split the quarter up. She gave me a dime of it. I gambled it away and lost it becuase of my sin. Then I found a penny on the sidewalk, invested it in GM and lost it. Today I made $100. I gave $10 dollars to the church and $ 20 to LIberty Counsel. I lost $30. Tomorrow I will spend $24. I have bill due for $20. I received it four days ago when three of my friends lost seen dollars each and warned me about gambling.

How much will I have 4:00 pm on July 17, 2009?

If any of you are smart enough to figure this out you get a prize.

Posted by: Vlad The Impaler | July 8, 2009 10:59 PM

There is no such thing as a vestigial organ. I know some silly mad scientist decided to name some organs "vestigial" becuase he/she does not understand the purpose of that organ - yet. maybe someday we will. I doubt it though. Medical science gets dumber as civilization grows.

If the organ serves no purpose, then it should not exist. It does serve purpose. Evolution is a farce.

You should call this site Farceyngula. Maybe even fartyngula.

Posted by: Brain Hertz | July 9, 2009 1:57 AM

(re-including full context for clarity)

It almost seems like a caricature of a creationist site. There's no actual physical museum that I can find mentioned, all the pictures are cartoonish at best, the arguments are too far-fetched, and the writing is like that of a middle-schooler.

As compared to...?

My point was that it seemed more Landover baptist than Westboro Baptist.

And, it's poorly written, as if by someone who did not receive a complete education, or has not completed theirs (thus the comparison to a middle-schooler).

I understand what you said, but I drew the opposite conclusion. If you look at the writing at Westboro Baptist's site (I won't link to it...) the writing is pretty atrocious and the claims well beyond anything that you could call "far fetched". Compare that to something that Landover Baptist produces and you find a generally much better quality of writing.

My observation was that parody sites are typically much more slick and better written than the actual fundie sites they parody. Noting that a website has shitty grammar and layout isn't any kind of indication that it's a parody...

Posted by: uriel1972 | July 9, 2009 5:39 AM

@Gaurdian um your native country appears to be the United States of America. America is not a country and english is not native to that country, in fact english is a bastard creole of french, german, latin and greek.

The point of the german quote was to remind us of the book burning by the Nazi's I think as I don't understand german. No someone quoting another language does not insult me, it reminds me of my inadequacy as I speak only english.
Do not be proud of your ignorance, pride commeth before the fall so to speak

Posted by: Cosmic Teapot | July 9, 2009 8:46 AM

A Air Dung of the polls

I don't have a common ancestor.

Sure you do, monkey man.

_____________<;,><_____________

If it works so well and you like it so much, MOVE THERE

Ich wohne heir, arschloch.

_____________<;,><_____________

The words gay and marriage together is equally annoying

So you have a problem with Gay Marriage? Not just the phrase Gay Marriage, but actually Gay Marriage itself. Tough. Gay Marriage should be allowed, and just because your religion is against Gay Marriage, what right do you have to foist your opinion (whether about Gay Marriage, or something else) on others who do not share your religious belief.

_____________<;,><_____________

You have to forget the world and learn common sense.

That will really help with Gay Marriage Quantam mechanics.

_____________<;,><_____________

You know why we conservatives don't want to prove the Bible for a million dollars? Becuase Obama and the government would steal (like the governmemt always does) it from us abnd give to some drugged up hippy in San Francisco.

Wow, that's sure going to be one happy hippy.

_____________<;,><_____________

I think it was to justify his hatred for black people and his hatred for CHistianity.

Ignorant fuckwit. Charles Darwin was an abolitionist. Do some research and stop believing everything fed to you by christian propaganda machines.

_____________<;,><_____________

Tell me on animal that has evolved from another?

OK, they're plants, but:

Speciation of Stephanomeria malheurensis, was observed in Burns County, Oregon. Gottlieb, L. D. 1973. Genetic differentiation, sympatric speciation, and the origin of a diploid species of Stephanomeria. American Journal of Botany 60(6):545-553

In the 1940's a fertile species was produced through chromosome doubling (allopolyploidy) in a hybrid of two primrose species. The new species was Primula kewensis. The story is recounted in Stebbins, G. L. 1950. Variation and Evolution in Plants. Columbia University Press. New York

_____________<;,><_____________

Never claim to beleive in od and evolution too.

OK, I won't. But can I just say ay Marriae!

_____________<;,><_____________

according to the Bible.

According to the bible, Jesus was born in 4BC (Matthew) and 6/7 AD (Luke). Enough said.

_____________<;,><_____________

P:S, Gay Marriage

_____________<;,><_____________

And stopping for now at comment 200, I have some work to do.

Posted by: Cotku | July 9, 2009 11:33 AM

*headdesk*

People like "guardian" make me very ashamed of my southern accent.

I suppose that's why the other atheists and science-minded people I know around here work very hard to mask it, even in the face of other southerners.

Posted by: Caymen Paolo Diceda | July 9, 2009 2:17 PM

I don't have a problem with accents of any kind, nor with catering to those who speak other languages. The United States was built upon diversity and a great mix of cultures. It is our strength and we should revel in it for all the new and wonderful ideas it brings to our doors. English is not the official language of the US, nor should it ever be made so. We should reach out and draw all these other cultures toward us, including trying to understand what they say in their languages. In the end we will be the richer for ideas and the business and hard work that these non-english-speakers bring to us

I do have a problem with willful ignorance and anyone who is proud to wallow in it. This is the conservative's path to intellectual poverty AND monetary poverty that goes along with it.