…and this is a 
Someone in Kissimmee, Florida got it into their head that the city logo was lacking in pointless accolades to their deity, so they want to jam one in. There's a poll, of course.
Kissimmee city commissioners are considering putting "In God We Trust" on a new city logo. Commissioner Art Otero says he proposed the change because he doesn't like the way the country is headed. Commissioner Carlos Irizarry questioned its legal advisability. The ACLU says it discriminates in favor of religions that believe in one God.
Should Kissimmee add "In God We Trust" to its official city logo?
Yes. It's a patriotic move, just as the commissioner said. 53.3%
No. It discriminates in favor of monotheistic religions. 35.5%
I don't know. What's wrong with leaving it the way it is? 11.2%
I never can quite get the connection between patriotism and religion. Oh, wait, of course: it's because the loudest proponents of both tend to be equally mindless!
I think they should have a new poll: "Should Kissimmee add 'There is one god and Mohammed is his prophet' to its official city logo?" If Art Otero can see that as a reasonable alternative, then I'd give him credit for being open-minded and really wanting to endorse faith as a solution to the nation's problems, rather than being just another sectarian wackjob.
Comments
Posted by: charlied | July 23, 2009 9:26 AM
What ever happened to E Pluribus Unum?
Posted by: The Science Pundit
|
July 23, 2009 9:26 AM
Yes
49.5%
No
41.1%
I don't know
9.4%
The pharyngulation hath begun!
Posted by: ThorSonofOdin
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July 23, 2009 9:28 AM
OT but does anyone else working on a University campus for the summer encounter the "Christian Crusaders"? They seem to have taken over the entire campus at Colorado State University for the last week. Complete with stages and banquet tents and makeshift alters all over our Moby arena and surrounding greens. Hoards of hugging people of all ages are clogging my bike paths to the lab. What if the campus was hosting the "Atheist Avengers" or "Satan Squad" I'd bet there would be a little uproar. Just wondering if other Universities prostitute out their campuses during the summer.
Posted by: Moggie | July 23, 2009 9:30 AM
I'm not impressed by the poll choices. "It discriminates in favor of monotheistic religions"? Firstly, no, that's not why I object: I'd be just as much against it if the logo were explicitly polytheistic. Secondly, stop being so coy: we all know which particular "mono" Mr Otero is thinking of.
Posted by: Becca Stareyes
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July 23, 2009 9:31 AM
I wonder how they'd take it if we asked to have it read 'In the Gods We Trust'. I mean, same basic sentiment, but now includes polytheists as well as monotheists. I suppose we could even make it 'Those of Us Who Believe, in the Gods We Trust', which at least admits the possibility of non-believers, if not saying what they put their trust into.
Posted by: Armand K. | July 23, 2009 9:33 AM
Not so sure about the US, but here in Europe this mix usually came in the form of fascism.Posted by: BobbyEarle
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July 23, 2009 9:34 AM
Wow, 20 minutes after PZ posts and "No" is already in the lead with 47.8%.
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 23, 2009 9:35 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but the most important thing I took from this was the statement of the Commissioner the he "proposed the change because he didn't like the way the country is headed".
Given his obvious religious affiliation, I am greatly encouraged by his recognition of the direction the country is headed and even more encouraged that it's caused him to fret to the point of making clearly illegal proposals.
Posted by: Didac | July 23, 2009 9:39 AM
A more direct logo against the "way the country is headed" would be: In a Half-Bred Muslin Non-Natural Born Citizen as Usurper President We Do Not Trust. More direct, more natural, more sincere.
Posted by: JefFlyingV | July 23, 2009 9:41 AM
Seems odd that god needs an advertisement on a city logo. Will there be a picture of "him" as well?
Posted by: ice9 | July 23, 2009 9:42 AM
First I'd like to see Mr. O'Tero's birth certificate. I think he was born in Belfast.
ice
Posted by: DrFrank | July 23, 2009 9:45 AM
Ugh, there's an advert on the right hand side of the page right now promoting a pro-Creationism magasine called "The Good News". I personally clicked on it a few times to use up a bit of their advertising budget.
Posted by: Andrés Diplotti | July 23, 2009 9:51 AM
Aren't options 2 and 3 just two different ways of saying "no"? Did they purposefully split the "no" in two so each of them would individually get fewer votes than the single "yes"? Or are they just dim witted like that? It's not the first time I've noted that in a poll.
Posted by: Ashley Moore | July 23, 2009 9:54 AM
Otero say, "This nation has been moving toward more liberal postures such as homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion and the legalization of marijuana. I'm against that way of thinking. Those are not the values upon which this nation was founded. I think we need to fight for the values we're losing."
Emphasis mine.
Considering many of the founders where hemp farmers, I think Otero needs to take a history lesson!
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | July 23, 2009 9:54 AM
Discriminates in favor of monotheistic religions (*snort*)
I'd buy that if the suggestion was to put up "In Allah we trust" or "In a Florida Swamp Great Cthulhu Sleeps, Dreaming."
Posted by: chezjake | July 23, 2009 9:54 AM
And here I'd thought all along that Kissimmee's deity was Mickey Mouse.
Posted by: a different phil | July 23, 2009 9:59 AM
As of 9:58am EDT:
Should Kissimmee add "In God We Trust" to its official city logo?
Yes. It's a patriotic move, just as the commissioner said. (270 responses)
25.4%
No. It discriminates in favor of monotheistic religions. (726 responses)
68.4%
I don't know. What's wrong with leaving it the way it is? (65 responses)
6.1%
1061 total responses
(Results not scientific)
Posted by: daveau
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July 23, 2009 10:04 AM
I voted no like a good little PZ sheepy, because that's how we make a point around here. But, what is wrong with leaving it the way it is. Why is that answer an "I don't know"? And discriminating against non-monotheistic religions? After all the money I send them, that's the best the ACLU can come up with?
Posted by: JiminKy | July 23, 2009 10:04 AM
I suggest an experiment. Get a dozen Florida towns the size of Kissimmee to participate. Let Kissimmee change its slogan to "Yahveh, we all want to give you head." Let the next one up the road announce "Thor, you're lookin' hot today!" Next town can proclaim "Shamash, you da man!" A dozen more towns with bland mottoes can be monitored as controls.
Since Kissimmites are obviously sure their god is listening – and so many people think we're vulnerable to sky-bolts if we don't worship the right one – let's see just how well each of these towns does over the next year. If Shamashburg wins, through some economic windfall or avoidance of hurricanes, then we can begin concocting quotes from the Founding Fathers to prove that they all had always worshipped Shamash, and founded the United States as an exclusively Shamash-worshipping country.
That's fair, right?
Posted by: tangent_woman | July 23, 2009 10:07 AM
"Should Kissimmee add 'There is one god and Mohammed is his prophet' to its official city logo?"
I'd like to nominate "Kissimmee -- touched by his noodly appendage." to be an option.
Posted by: G | July 23, 2009 10:10 AM
Good luck with that.(Though I agree it's a terrible idea.) I used to work for the Osceola County government (where Kissimmee is located) and they open their council meetings with a prayer, so this isn't all the surprising to be honest.
Posted by: a different phil | July 23, 2009 10:10 AM
I doubt it was intentional. You should always be sure to apply a liberal dose of Hanlon's Razor:Posted by: c | July 23, 2009 10:11 AM
"Patriotism is the virtue of the wicked"
-Oscar Wilde
Posted by: BaldySlaphead | July 23, 2009 10:17 AM
Well, I voted for leaving it the fuck alone. The second one means that Hindus could vote for it.
Posted by: Larry | July 23, 2009 10:29 AM
I wonder if the godbots like this floridian dipshit ever consider that their invisible sky pixie fella has actually made things the way they are and that "not liking the way the country is headed" is blasphemy for which they will burn in hell for all eternity? So much for that trusting in god bullshit.
Posted by: Alverant | July 23, 2009 10:30 AM
I think the godly-patriot link is the worst part about the poll. They probably agree with HW Bush when he said he didn't think Atheists were really US citizens. Isn't this the part of the country that is putting quotes by George Washington that he never said and in 2000 believed the "I invented the internet" quote by Gore that Gore never said. I guess "bear false witness" is just a suggestion commandant.
Posted by: stogoe | July 23, 2009 10:43 AM
Bullshit. That's just the line that Malice has spread for decades, so it can keep working in the shadows.
Posted by: Randomfactor | July 23, 2009 10:48 AM
In god they trusted, now they're flat-busted:
http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/politicsanyone/47329/#c_424690
Posted by: Randomfactor | July 23, 2009 10:50 AM
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Any sufficiently-advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.
Posted by: Tim Eisele | July 23, 2009 10:53 AM
Years ago, one of my college housemates had a gag "inflated dollar" dating back to the Nixon administration. The motto on it was:
"In God we trust, all others pay cash."
And now, I can't help mentally completing the motto that way every time I hear it. Well, it amuses me, anyway.
Posted by: Paul | July 23, 2009 10:56 AM
It's patriotic because God loves the USA best!!!
Posted by: Erik | July 23, 2009 11:06 AM
"I never can quite get the connection between patriotism and religion."
I always thought that both provided a way for an individual to basically communicate to others in their society that the individual can be trusted. Flying the flag or engaging in a religious ritual is the same as saying "I will follow the group's rules and won't question them."
Posted by: MadScientist | July 23, 2009 11:08 AM
Don't confuse patriotism and nationalism. The religiotards are nationalistic, not patriotic, although they do their best to confuse the two. If we accept the words as synonymous then we can never praise the actions of long gone patriots and if we don't call people patriots, what name shall we use when we speak of people who have had a profound positive influence on the development of the nation?
Nationalism is the mindless belief that you're better than other people simply because you were born in the best nation on earth (whatever that may be). Nationalism is a mental illness which is every bit as dangerous and insidious as religion.
The phrase "in god we trust" is neither nationalistic nor patriotic, it is simply religious. Of course various religious cults would want religion associated with their brand of nationalism which they try to pass off as patriotism.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 23, 2009 11:11 AM
This works for any regional issue. We see it here all the time.
Posted by: teammarty | July 23, 2009 11:55 AM
#6 Religion and Patriotism are usually mixed in with fascism here too.
#1 E Pluribus Unim got booted out in the McCarthy Era in the 50's.
Soon it will be E Unim Pluribus
Posted by: not a gator | July 23, 2009 12:09 PM
@6 (see 35) Google Sinclair Lewis fascism
@35 That's E (=ex) Pluribus Unum. The inverse is Ex Uno Plures. That would be a good motto to describe the history of Christianity. :D
Posted by: Barklikeadog | July 23, 2009 12:13 PM
In my home town there used to be a cross on the city seal. The ACLU challenged it and the city had to remove it. There were 4 symbols inside a circular logo with each symbol representing some important aspect of the city itself. When they were forced to remove the cross from the seal they just left a big blank hole in the seal as a protest. So now the seal has the other 3 with the 4th left blank.
This is the same town that refused to allow a prominent local cardiologist, who was Muslim, from building a mosque in the city limits. I don't know why he didn't fight it and get the ACLU involved. People couldn't stand the fact that a Muslim with money would try to do such a thing. It was an affront to their Christian sensibilities.
Another example of religious tolerance and Christian love. Wasn't it said somewhere in the babble "You will know that they are Christians by their love"
So true! Their love seems different from mine.
Posted by: Bob Wahr | July 23, 2009 12:19 PM
Here too:
http://www.redding.com/news/2009/jul/22/shasta-lake-council-oks-god-we-trust-display/
Posted by: atheistgrrrrl | July 23, 2009 12:30 PM
You ONLY have them during the summer?!?! I go to a community college in Sacramento and they are a permanent infestation here. They go by the name Campus Crusade for Christ and they are a huge problem. Last year they protested for Prop 8 and made sure every time they were on tv they were identified with our college, and since they ruled the student council they released a statement in support of it for the whole school. They have a permanent tent in the main quad and last fall disseminated flyers stating that all Muslims are terrorists(we have a large Muslim population). And to top it of they had Eric Hovind speak in the cafeteria quad and the end of Spring semester.
Several students tried to set up a gay-straight alliance last year and felt so harassed and threatened that they left school. I'm fairly certain atheists and satanists would receive the same treatment. And this is all at a public state run school.
Posted by: tsg | July 23, 2009 12:56 PM
Should Kissimmee add "In God We Trust" to its official city logo?
Yes. It's a patriotic move, just as the commissioner said. (468 responses) 12.9%
No. It discriminates in favor of monotheistic religions. (3008 responses) 82.9%
I don't know. What's wrong with leaving it the way it is? (152 responses) 4.2%
3628 total responses
(Results not scientific)
Posted by: Holbach
|
July 23, 2009 12:57 PM
"Should Kissimmee kiss their god's ass or kick it'? Of course both are impossible, but what do they know of anything?
Posted by: Tom | July 23, 2009 1:05 PM
So the commissioner is making it part of their slogan because they don't like Obama? Do they think Obama doesn't like god and this will make him cry? Why not just make their slogan "Obama sucks"? Wouldn't that be more to the point?
Posted by: Cathal | July 23, 2009 1:42 PM
C @ 23:
That should be "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"
Trust someone not of God's chosen race to mangle that one, tsk!
Posted by: Cathal | July 23, 2009 1:46 PM
And I can't access the Orlando Sentinel website, so it looks like you've all managed to break it.
Good hustle.
Posted by: eric | July 23, 2009 2:03 PM
13% Yes
83% No
4% Don't know.
The pharyngulation is complete :)
Posted by: tmaxPA | July 23, 2009 2:03 PM
RandomFactor@29:
Brilliant.
Posted by: Randomfactor | July 23, 2009 2:24 PM
Feel free to use; I've already filed off the original serial numbers.
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 23, 2009 2:30 PM
Andrés Diplotti:
Good point, that. I'm working on getting the "I don't know" vote above the "yes" vote, just to spite them.
Posted by: The Archduchess | July 23, 2009 3:00 PM
@19 & 20: That's the scientific way to do it! With an experiment! I also propose adding "In no god we trust" to the list. Really, if the government were logical and thought like scientists (hahahahaha, that's likely), we'd have the whole religion problem solved. Experiment with different mottoes, notice the lack of smiting, renounce the silly business.
Posted by: MikeD | July 23, 2009 3:34 PM
Art Otero says it's about patriotism, because he doesn't like socialism, so it's necessary to say "we trust in a specific deity".
Huh?
Why not a new motto, "Who Is John Galt?"
Posted by: SEF | July 23, 2009 3:49 PM
@ daveau #18:
I think they're actually being quite canny there.
The religious scum are capable of switching between claiming atheism is a religion (and hence dodgy) and claiming it isn't a religion (and hence deserving of religious protection) mid-sentence whenever one position suits them more than the other. There's also widespread rejection (from both unthinking and dishonest believers) of the fact that freedom of religion necessarily requires freedom from religion.
However, for all but the most clueless of UnSAnians, pointing out how such a slogan favours monotheistic religions over polytheistic ones makes it clear it's in breach of the law which specifically says they can't do that.
Anything else would be too hard for them to understand - or too easy for them to contrive to misunderstand.
Posted by: Dahan | July 23, 2009 4:57 PM
Someone's trying to fight us. We're down to 72.4 %. Let's go people, keep clicking!
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 23, 2009 5:12 PM
Dahan:
That "someone" is probably, in some part, me. I ran this for a while:
while true; do wget http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/osceola/orl-kissimmee-in-god-we-trust-poll-072309,0,5982262,post.poll --post-data="q147598=353699"; sleep 10; rm -f orl-kissimmee*; done
(In other words, voting for "I don't know" every ten seconds.)
I've stopped, though, since "I don't know" now beats "Yes" (and is a distant second to "No").
Posted by: Ian | July 23, 2009 7:31 PM
E Pluribus Echo
Posted by: Joreth | July 23, 2009 8:57 PM
Of course I voted No because the goal is to point out that I don't want the slogan.
Unfortunately, I also don't agree with the way the two negative options are worded. But, in cases like these, it's more important to vote the way that will result in the *effect* I want, rather than nit-picking over the incorrect language use.
How about, I don't want the slogan because it's a violation of the Constitution's separation of Church and State?
Although I *do* say "what's wrong with the slogan the way it is?" the more important point to make is "no". I can send a strongly worded letter to my congressmen and city officials that more accurately reflects my opinion.
**P.S. I live in Orlando, which borders Kissimmee, and us rationalists are fond of saying that we're the buckle of the Bible Belt. For all that Florida likes to pretend it's all metropolitan with its huge tourist industry, the natives around here are some of the most bigoted, religious, close-minded, under-educated, willfully ignorant people I've yet to encounter. Florida just hides it better because we get all those tax dollars from the crazy liberals and furriners.
At least in the rest of the Bible Belt, they're more honest about their bigotry.
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 23, 2009 9:37 PM
Joreth:
I lived in Davenport for a few years, and now live in Bartow. Believe you me, I know from bigots.
Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 23, 2009 11:13 PM
Oh my, the poll fornication continues. Why did the Atheist Leftist Communist Underdogs get involved in this? I think every church in America should pool their resources and file a criminal class action lawsuit against the ACLU and look into every dime that organiztion has took in and spent since it's existence and see wether it really is working for or against America. My bet would be against America and for Islam. I wonder how much BIn Laden, Russia, and China is paying the ACLU to destroy America?
Oh well, it doesn't matter so much that communist organizations are running loose in America as long as we have the freedom to fornicate polls.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 23, 2009 11:14 PM
Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 23, 2009 11:13 PM
That's quite the word salad.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 23, 2009 11:16 PM
you fucking moron.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 23, 2009 11:22 PM
you fucking moron.
The right-wing hatred of the ACLU is such an odd phenomenon. The reasons given are always blatantly untrue. The right's dishonesty is just so open when it comes to the ACLU.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 23, 2009 11:32 PM
Its part and parcel with how the mouth breathing "grassroots warriors" of the right don't bother to fact check what their spit flinging radio idols, op-ed page polluting and "so bad I cringe calling them authors" mini-skirt wearing "authors" command them to believe.
Why strain what limited processing power their gray matter has actually verifying something when they can be just as loud, just as obnoxious and just as wrong as the people they idolize?
If they bothered to look it up they'd see the ACLU working for their people too.
And by their people I mean the dumb asses who have rights just like everyone else but don't want anyone else to have those rights defended.
Posted by: Guardian of the Poll | July 23, 2009 11:47 PM
Rev. Big Dumb Chimp:
I know all about the ACLU's so called fight for "religious freedom". It's a ruse!
How can they defend religious freedom while at the same time defend same sex fake marriage? The two conradict each other.
What happens if a Christian church sues a homosexual organization and uses the ACLU for the lawsuit? Would they take it? Whose side would they be on?
They cannot defend both sides of the same coin at the same time. it's impossible. They claim to defend Christian freedom, but asre the first in line to banish the word Christmas every year and then wonder why we hate them.
If they really loved religious freedom so much, they would let us celebrate Christmas. Thye never say a word about St.Patricks Dat, Easter, Thanksgiving, or any other day, just Christmas. Why is that? Why not banish all holidays? Why not pick on Muslims for celebrating Rhamadan? Why not pick on Jews for celebrating passover?
Instead they pick on Christmas. if they really want to earn our trust they will stay out of religious issues all together - particularly Christmas! And leave the 10 commandments alon and leave "In God We Trust" alone and leave all of it alone. Then we will show respect. Until then they deserve a hard time.
Posted by: Steve_C | July 23, 2009 11:57 PM
Wow. You really aren't very bright. Keep going. Your ignorance is kind of fascinating.
Posted by: Taylor Seim | July 24, 2009 12:04 AM
Yes - 4.5% (665 responses)
No - 88.2% (13162 responses)
I don't know - 7.4% (1104 responses)
Go team!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 12:04 AM
Oh yes, all those cases are a grand conspiracy. Dumbass.
non-sequitur much?
Are you really this stupid? Sues a homosexual organization for what? You don't "use" the ACLU, they come to your aid in issues of violations of your rights. You incredibly fucking stupid person.
They banish the word Christmas? Please cite the case where the ACLU was behind banishing the word Christmas. I can wait.
I'm sorry, you can't celebrate Christmas? Where is this going on? I celebrated it with my family just this past December. I'm even pretty sure it was December 25th.
You really should stop. I didn't think it was possible but your arguments are getting dumber by the word.
Strange that they would "banish" Christmas but leave the much more holy holiday of Easter alone.
Wait, maybe you're right. They should go after Groundhog day. Why the fuck are they leaving groundhog day alone? CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT? CAN YOU?111?1?1?!!!?!?
I'm still wondering where this "banishment" occurred.
As soon as Christians stop demanding that the rest of the country accept Christianity as the one true religion and stop violating the Constitution, the ACLU will stop.
Stop trying to post the 10 commandments in Government buildings, violating the constitution and they'll stop. I'm serious, they will.
And You obviously don't know the history behind "in God We Trust".
How old are you?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 12:43 AM
Did you run off with your tail tucked between your legs?
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2009 12:52 AM
Wooo...88.2% and I cast the 15,000th vote.
Well done, all.
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 24, 2009 1:05 AM
Please don't engage the guradian. He'll ignore the vast majority of your comments and come back with a whole new set of paranoid wingnut non sequiturs. It's like a Gish Gallop of crazy. The jury's still out on whether he's for real or not.
Posted by: Dave | July 24, 2009 1:30 AM
No joke: I just voted in the poll, and I swear to gawd, the "yes" tally was at 666. Rather appropriate, if you ask me.
Posted by: Thunderbird5 | July 24, 2009 3:41 AM
#42 - Tom
EXACTLY what I was thinking. It seems Commissioner Otero was righteously pissed off that Obama won but really flipped his JayneCounty when Palin did her lake-front point guard pullout job. Hence the bawwww.
Frankly, I think he should poll to change the name of the town as well. All that Kissimmee could lead to onanism - one of the very few sins which his biblical god was wrathed-up enough to personally smite someone for.
Posted by: Novparl | July 24, 2009 6:32 AM
In Darwin we trust.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 7:40 AM
Yes, yes I know. But I was feeling a bit ornery last night.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 24, 2009 8:52 AM
How can they defend religious freedom while at the same time defend same sex fake marriage? The two conradict each other.
That's some intense stupidity. Highly concentrated shit.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | July 24, 2009 8:54 AM
If they really loved religious freedom so much, they would let us celebrate Christmas. Thye never say a word about St.Patricks Dat, Easter, Thanksgiving, or any other day, just Christmas. Why is that? Why not banish all holidays? Why not pick on Muslims for celebrating Rhamadan? Why not pick on Jews for celebrating passover?
Instead they pick on Christmas.
Liar.
Incapable of thought, and a liar. How surprising coming from a right-wing jebofascist.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 11:23 AM
Guardian of the poll
Tell me about this?
Posted by: Traveler | July 24, 2009 4:12 PM
The city should change its motto to "Only I'm Right!!" Everyone can assume that this is referring to themselves and not the other guy.
Posted by: bilsemon | July 24, 2009 11:34 PM
I just voted and there were 12 "nos" and three "yeses". What happened to all the votes?
Posted by: Larian LeQuella | July 25, 2009 1:04 AM
Seems they reset the poll once again.
Posted by: Meyrick Kirby | July 25, 2009 4:06 AM
Yes, the fools have reset the poll. This of course works in my favour. Now the poll is:
Yes: 3 (0%) No: 514 (99%) Don't know: 2 (0%)Posted by: Meyrick Kirby | July 25, 2009 10:10 AM
Damn it, over 30 people have voted 'Yes'. I'll just have to fornicate this poll some more ... cue evil maniacal laugh ... oh ha ha ha!
Posted by: mike daniels | August 3, 2009 12:18 AM
Cthulhu Fhtagn!
I think it deserves to be publicized! (Sorry, apparently can't post an image here.)