…and this is a 
I don't think I'd trust this Latvian money-lender to stay in business for long — he's giving small loans and asking for your soul as the only collateral. He doesn't employ collection agents, using only fear and superstition to get people to pay him back, which might work for a little while…but only until the atheists show up. Sure, I'll take a loan for $500, and hey, I think I'll just default and let you keep the collateral. If you only want to trust me for $1.98, that's fine, I'll take it and you can have my soul for as long as you want.
There's also a poll with the story: Would you use your soul as collateral for a loan?. Unfortunately, you'll have to until tomorrow to get the results.
Comments
Posted by: Uncephalized
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July 6, 2009 1:46 PM
Absolutely! I wonder how much I could get...
Posted by: Cthulhu | July 6, 2009 1:48 PM
Hell yes I would as long as he doesn't try and "collect" early
Posted by: Randy | July 6, 2009 1:48 PM
He could have mine too... very low mileage.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
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July 6, 2009 1:51 PM
It is odd how people like Egnor, who wants desperately to hold to the idea that humans have souls, generally won't go for such transactions. This guy at least sounds like he takes the soul seriously.
But hey, I'll sell my soul to Egnor for $500,000. It must be worth a lot, the way he talks, while I can't see a damn thing that it actually does.
So come on, Egnor, surely it would be worth it...
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: rnb | July 6, 2009 1:55 PM
Just make sure he doesn't have tentacles hidden
around him somewhere.
Posted by: rnb | July 6, 2009 1:57 PM
Just make sure he doesn't have tentacles hidden
around him somewhere.
Posted by: SaraJ
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July 6, 2009 1:57 PM
If I sold my soles then I'd be barefoot, but if I got enough money for it I guess I could just buy a new pair of shoes.
Posted by: Kausik Datta | July 6, 2009 2:06 PM
Of course I shall sell my immortal soul for money... provided the money comes in this life!
Posted by: KemaTheAtheist | July 6, 2009 2:08 PM
Man... I wonder if I could sell mine on eBay. Send them a nice piece of paper that says "This is soul of Nick. This certificate grants you to do with it what you choose for all eternity."
How awesome would that be to see one of those certificates show up on the Galactic Antiques Roadshow in 1000 years? The price of my soul could only go up! It would be the most treasured (on paper) soul ever! I bet it would be worth even more if I get end up famous... hmmmm...
Hey, PZ, would you send me a signed certificate saying that I own your soul? I'll give you $5......
Posted by: ConcernedJoe | July 6, 2009 2:10 PM
Actually I suspect most of us baby-eating atheists would take our repayment responsibilities very seriously - and need no threats of supernatural damnation to maintain our moral bearings.
On the other hand if someone wants to buy my soul at a good price - well I have it for sale!
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip
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July 6, 2009 2:13 PM
I suspect Doctor Doom would not approve.
Oh wait, wrong country.
Posted by: tsg | July 6, 2009 2:14 PM
I'd be more concerned what defaulting on the loan would do to my credit rating. On the other hand, I'm giving my soul away to the first person who wants it.
Posted by: Fred the Hun
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July 6, 2009 2:15 PM
Jonathan Haidt touches on this during the talk he gave at the
Beyond Belief: Enlightenment 2.0 conference.
http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/beyond-belief-enlightenment-2-0/jonathan-haidt
Posted by: Robyn | July 6, 2009 2:26 PM
Poll over =(
I wouldn't use my soul as collateral, not because I place some value on it, but because of my sense of ethics. (Ironically enough I find that atheists seem to have rather a rather firm sense of morality). I simply don't think it would be right to accept a loan based on false pretenses.
Posted by: Jim A | July 6, 2009 2:29 PM
I'll join the chorus that says that one should repay the debts one owes regardless of the quality (or existance) of the collater pledged. Are his interest rates lower than OTHER unsecured credit? Exactly HOW does he propose to take posession if you default?
Posted by: Grumpy Mr. Gruff | July 6, 2009 2:29 PM
I sold my soul in high school for a refreshing ice-cold can of Coke. Would my check would bounce if I tried to take out a loan from this guy?
Posted by: tsg | July 6, 2009 2:37 PM
@14
In this case, I don't think there's any false pretense involved. We're all pretty much saying up front we don't have a soul.
Banker: We'll give you this loan using your house as collateral.
Borrower: I don't own a house.
Banker: Sure you do, everyone does.
Borrower: Really, I don't.
Banker: Then you won't mind putting it up for collateral since you don't really have one.
Borrower: Fine. Shall I draw the deed in crayon on the back of a cocktail napkin?
Posted by: Dutchdoc
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July 6, 2009 2:40 PM
I too would have to decline the offer on ethical grounds:
If I ever were to default on the loan and he would come to collect the agreed upon collateral .. I would have to admit that I didn't have a soul.
Posted by: woozy | July 6, 2009 2:44 PM
Funny thing. Even if I believed in a soul (or wasn't willing to take the anti-pascal wager that I don't have one) I wouldn't believe he'd have any ability to collect.
I mean, duh, I die, Satan and God want my soul but I say I promised it to some yahoo with no authority and I expect them to say, "Oh, gosh.... too bad for us"?
Theoretically, I guess but again 1) this guy would have to try to collect and 2) the guy who gave you the coke would have to lay claim. I'd say don't sell out for a coke or a 1.98 but hold out for a higher bidder, but as I doubt anyones ability to collect... phooey... send/lend to *everybody*.Posted by: MikeM | July 6, 2009 2:47 PM
Sorry for the O/T... Apparently, Michael Jackson's ghost has already been spotted. That didn't take long!
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,28383,25739531-5019114,00.html
And it has a poll to crash!
By the way, I don't blame anyone for being skeptical of what I'm about to claim, be my wife and I "won" the right to go to the memorial. I can send the email to PZ if you don't believe me, so at least he can verify my claim.
We can't go. We live in NorCal, and the fact that you have to go to Dodger Stadium to get the tickets really fouled us up. We gave our rights to a friend.
Posted by: Gruesome Rob | July 6, 2009 2:51 PM
Another business plan to fleece suckers^w^w help the faithful
Posted by: Ten Bears | July 6, 2009 2:54 PM
The poll is closed, so I guess I won't find out if there's a "don't have one" option.
Posted by: Andrea | July 6, 2009 3:07 PM
I have to agree that I wouldn't do this, not because I believe in souls but because it would be unethical to take out a loan I had no intention of repaying.
Now selling my "soul", that's a different matter.
Posted by: xebecs | July 6, 2009 3:27 PM
Unless, of course, this guy is the devil (or god).
Seriously, that's probably what the religiots who would be afraid of defaulting are going to think -- this is a clever way for the devil to get one over on them.
Posted by: gdlchmst | July 6, 2009 3:30 PM
Too bad. I already sold my soul for $2, and again for $5, and later for a burrito. I'm still waiting for the Big Buyer, i.e. Satan, to show up.
Posted by: Barklikeadog | July 6, 2009 3:37 PM
What a maroon!
Posted by: SantaCruzOM | July 6, 2009 3:43 PM
Funny enough I happen to have an extra soul, which I've not had a use for until now. It's just been sitting in my closet. I'm the second owner, so it's slightly used, but in tact. I won it in a game of doubles 8-ball a few months ago. My only concern is that it's starting to smell, so everytime I open my closet my dog makes a move for it. I'm afraid he's going to eventually find a way to get in the closet while I'm at work. Last thing I want is to come home and find someone's shredded soul scattered all over my house. It's not easy to get soul out of the upholstery you know.
Posted by: Matty S | July 6, 2009 3:44 PM
I suspect that for the cameras it's only your 'soul' as collateral; behind closed doors, it's probably kneecaps too.
Posted by: Chris Richards | July 6, 2009 3:46 PM
Oh man, I wish I hadn't sold mine to the highest bidder a decade ago!
Posted by: Brownian, Most Vicious & Petty of Pharyngulites
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July 6, 2009 3:47 PM
No deal. If I ever need money, I'll sell this solid gold fiddle.
Posted by: Anton Mates | July 6, 2009 3:47 PM
Nope. Somebody already tried.
Posted by: Bunk | July 6, 2009 3:48 PM
If anyone can extract it, they can have my soul for a song. I suspect this guy will also be using the threat of ruining your credit history for non-payment along with the threat of . . . now what else was he threatening? To send you to hell for all eternity? or just keep your soul in a box in his closet? or huh?
Posted by: AdamK | July 6, 2009 4:00 PM
I have an endless supply of immortal souls, and you can have as many as you want for free.
Posted by: Larry | July 6, 2009 4:00 PM
When I sold my soul decades ago so I could have that shot at that cute blonde sitting two rows up from me in history, I never imagined that it would cost me a loan years later.
Ah, choices made when we're young, dumb, and horny.
Posted by: The Skepdick | July 6, 2009 4:01 PM
Certainly, I'd sell my soul to anyone who would pay for it. Caveat emptor.
As far as using it for collateral, I don't consider it an ethical dilemma at all. The agreement to pay back the loan would be between the lender and me. It is that agreement that I would find ethically binding. Collateral is, in this purely ethical transaction, irrelevant.
Since the collateral would be irrelevant, it poses no ethical dilemma.
Further, the value of the collateral is in the mind of the lender, anyway. If the dumbass thinks something he wants to call my sould has value as collateral, that's his business.
Posted by: Sherry
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July 6, 2009 4:05 PM
How many times can you sell your soul? Who would know?
I'll sell my soul everyday if it'll get me coffee on the bed table every morning.
Posted by: RizzleG | July 6, 2009 4:11 PM
It didn't work for Bart Simpson, therefore I think I'll pass.
Posted by: SantaCruzOM | July 6, 2009 4:18 PM
Sherry,
I think we may be able to work something out....
Posted by: Mu | July 6, 2009 4:20 PM
Somehow I don't think our souls have much value to the "big buyer" since they are his anyway, if you believe that stuff. Plus, according the accepted writing getting a "get out of hell" card wouldn't mean you have a "get into heaven" card instead. All you could hope for is sitting outside the gate for eternity, what might get mighty boring in and itself.
Posted by: Mrs Tilton, of counsel to Satan, Beelzebub & Asmodeus LLP | July 6, 2009 4:23 PM
PZ the naive non-lawyer:
Sure, I'll take a loan for $500, and hey, I think I'll just default and let you keep the collateral
Oh, and did we check to make sure the loan is non-recourse? Oh, we did not. So your collateral is worthless (because non-existent)? That's no problem, we'll just enforce the judgement and make you sell you collection of Cthulhu knitwear!
MWA-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: humorix | July 6, 2009 5:00 PM
Then I also to sell the soul of the others? 2 for the price of one!
Posted by: humorix | July 6, 2009 5:03 PM
Then I also to sell the soul of the others? 2 for the price of one!
Posted by: Io | July 6, 2009 5:08 PM
PZ, you do realize it's a practical joke, i. e., no money lending actually goes on, don't you?
Posted by: Happy Tentacles
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July 6, 2009 5:23 PM
Well that solves the overdraft problems of all us impoverished museum employees. Does he pay in cash?
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | July 6, 2009 5:28 PM
Hmmmm...
It's kind of like Pascal's wager except Vega$ Style 'cuz there's real money involved. If you sell your "soul" for $10 in the here and now, you win $10 if there aren't any souls...
On the other hand, since souls are ineffable and immeasurable, you can sell all of them you want and the buyer can't tell if they've been sold over and over. It worked for John Constantine, after all. So...
I assert that I have 100,000 souls and will sell them for $1 apiece. Any takers?
Posted by: AwesomeRobot | July 6, 2009 5:29 PM
I wouldn't do this either, because as a skeptic, I am familiar with the psychology of cons and con-artists. My first thought is that I could get a way with a lot of money by taking advantage of this guy. Since cons prey on that kind of mentality, I suspect that this is a con.
Posted by: stuart | July 6, 2009 5:38 PM
Wow! I just read the greatest atheist manifesto ever written. Seriously. It's called the Real Messiah:
http://www.amazon.com/Real-Messiah-Throne-Origi...
I was turned on to the book by Robert Price. It's written by a Jewish writer who found proof in a number of ancient sources that Jesus never claimed to be the messiah. It was all made up by later Christians in Rome to distract from the truth that threatened to overtake the whole Empire.
You see there was this Jewish king named Marcus Julius Agrippa. He was the St. Mark who wrote the gospel. He wrote the gospel secretly to have Jesus announce HIM as the messiah. Then the Roman authorities caught wind of what was going on and then cut Agrippa out of the gospel.
Don't you see!!! It's all a big lie - even the biggest lie in history. Jesus never claimed to be what all these people now say he was. They have been fooled by a second century editorial effort that still goes undetected.
How is Huller so sure of this conspiracy? He found an ancient throne in Venice which Italian sailors stole from the most ancient Church of St. Mark in Alexandria in the ninth century. The author proves that the throne goes back much further than that - i.e. all the way to the beginning of Christianity in Egypt.
In any event the throne has Hebrew letters and symbols which prove the real story of Christianity and how the modern Church is one big fake.
The throne is real. Here are pictures of the throne:
http://www.therealmessiahbook.blogspot.com
You can look it up with Google. It's a real object. But now the game is up. Christianity is proved to be a big lie and the world will never be the same again.
It's so great to be on the winning side at last! I've got to tell everyone.
All I got to say is that you got to read this book. This is the straw that breaks the back of the Church.
Posted by: littlejohn | July 6, 2009 5:42 PM
I tried to sell my soul, but the poll was closed. Drove my Chevy to to the levee but... oh, forget it.
Posted by: RickD | July 6, 2009 6:01 PM
Didn't this backfire on Bart Simpson when he sold his soul to Milhous?
Posted by: Roland Branconnier | July 6, 2009 6:13 PM
Sign me up! This the best offer I've had in a long time. It's something for nothing. On second thought, would this contract be null and void because it violates physical causal closure?
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | July 6, 2009 6:38 PM
This is the straw that breaks the back of the Church.
The question "how do you know what you claim to know about 'god'?" does that, and was racking up religion since before the christians even came along.
The fact that the codex sinaiticus (and the dead sea scrolls) omit all kinds of stuff about 'jesus' and other current christian dogma would also make rational christians go "oopsie" -- but there are no rational christians, by definition. So: you can lead a christian to water, but you can't make them think.
I'm sure a bit more oopsie and inconsistency in the dogma will just roll right off their impermeable brains.
Posted by: NixNoctua
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July 6, 2009 7:11 PM
Congratulations?
Posted by: Sherry
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July 6, 2009 7:23 PM
Why am I not surprised that the Devil has dealings with Santa Cruz?
Posted by: efrique | July 6, 2009 8:06 PM
I would not (at least in ordinary circumstances) use my soul as collateral for a loan, because I would regard it as taking money under false pretenses. I don't care if the other guy thinks it's real - I know it isn't, and I don't wish to deal dishonestly with the other fellow just because he's gullible enough to take it.
On the other hand, I don't require such fear-motivation just to pay back a loan. I happen to be an excellent financial risk (based on past evidence of always paying back loans on time or early even under very difficult circumstances), so the chance that he'd be left trying to collect a soul would be extremely close to 0.
Posted by: BobbyEarle
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July 6, 2009 8:31 PM
Santa Cruz...those were the days.
Hanging out at Moss Landing, stopping at the A&W on the way back to San Jose, then getting off 17 at the Winchester Drive-In. Man!
I tried to sell my brother's soul, but I couldn't get the price I wanted.
Posted by: ajbroome | July 6, 2009 9:42 PM
Poo! I *gave* mine away to a pizza company...
http://www.hell.co.nz
Posted by: MDUV | July 6, 2009 10:20 PM
Very Gogol. It was part of the Russian Empire when Nicolai Gogal wrote dead souls- the story of a scam artist who travels around Imperial Russia buying the "souls" of serfs to use as collateral.
I wonder if someone is pulling the journalists leg.
Posted by: MonkeyBoy | July 6, 2009 10:39 PM
Poll Time
Christianity Today is running a poll - "What is your overall opinion of Sarah Palin?" Currently with 734 votes the results are
30% Very favorable
30% Mostly favorable
19% Mostly unfavorable
21% Very unfavorable
Posted by: George | July 6, 2009 11:23 PM
I'll sell my soul clear title for $1,000? Any takers? If so, I have this bridge....
Posted by: RamziD | July 6, 2009 11:53 PM
I have to agree with #17. It's not like we would be trying to intentionally deceive the guy. He's the one asking for the soul as collateral in the first place. Whether you admit to him that you don't believe you have a soul or not, in his mind he would still have something substantial to collect on if you default.
Posted by: chaos_engineer | July 7, 2009 12:19 AM
Bart Simpson did have bad luck selling his soul, but Homer made out OK in the Halloween episode when he sold his. (The loophole was that he'd already promised his soul to Marge in a love letter, so the later sale was invalid.) This points to a useful backup plan in case souls really do exist: If you sell your soul to a believer, then on Judgment Day you can play the "Love thy Neighbor" card and make him take your soul into Heaven with his. (Warning: Don't sell your soul to a Calvinist; they're allowed to claim that "Divine Justice" is a higher rule than "Love thy Neighbor" and ship you off to Hell.)
#47 - That book doesn't prove anything, because it's possible for Jesus to have been the Messiah without being aware of it. You can't take that much Divine Essence and cram it into a physical body without a severe shock to the system and I'd imagine that partial amnesia is pretty common in those situations.
Anyway, Christianity has already been disproven by this argument: (1) If Christianity is true, then there exists an all-knowing, all-powerful being that wants me, personally, to live my life differently. (2) If such a being existed, its nature would force it to persuade me to live my life differently. (3) I am not living my life differently.
Posted by: Brian Westley | July 7, 2009 12:45 AM
Can Hemant Mehta get a loan from this guy?
Posted by: KI | July 7, 2009 9:02 AM
Back in the punk times, we often cut the cards "for your immortal soul". I almost always won, and so have a large collection of other people's souls to work with. Can I get multiple loans, using each as collateral? Or can I get one big loan, and bundle the souls to sell to a big bank, who can then sell them to another big bank, etc., just like bad mortgages?
Posted by: Kieran | July 7, 2009 11:36 AM
There's a company here in New Zealand named Hell Pizza, which gives you discounted pizza if you give them your soul, on the basis that your soul "has never done anything useful for you, why not give it away for cheap pizza??" They started the promotion after somebody put their soul up on the NZ equivalent of ebay, bought it for $5000, and even gave me a free t-shirt for giving them my soul and being a loyal customer.
Posted by: gaypaganunitarianagnostic | July 7, 2009 12:32 PM
The gentleman in question is a good guy, helping people out in difficult times.
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Posted by: Ichthyic | September 14, 2009 11:59 PM
even gave me a free t-shirt
wait, you got a free t-shirt from Hell's?
damn.
I never got one when I sold my soul.
In fact, I didn't even get the damn discount!
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