…and this is a 
It's annoying. Garbage is thriving: the Discovery Channel is running ads for the Creation "Museum", and our very own scienceblogs is intermittently running an ad for creationist literature. There are a couple of things to know about this. One is that the economy sucks, and the media, in particular are struggling. Science media especially are suffering, so everyone is scrambling to scrape up whatever revenues they can. The other thing to notice is that in a down economy, faith-based lies and wishful thinking are cheap to produce and continue to sell, so that's what's happening. There isn't much we can do other than to grab every penny we can from them.
With that in mind, here's something I'd like you all to do. Go to that obnoxious creationist ad that keeps appearing here, and take them up on their offer of a FREE booklet. Order it, I did, and it really is free — they don't ask for a credit card number, there are no hidden shipping fees, but they probably will stick your name and address on a mailing list of the gullible (don't worry, though, you aren't, so you are contaminating their list).
It says it takes two to four weeks to ship. As soon as I get mine, I'll open up a thread here with the same title as the book, and we shall all join in a gleeful public evisceration of their crappy little booklet. If you've got a blog, put a critical dissection of the book there and send me the link, and I'll add it to the post. We'll give them publicity, all right, but it will be the harshest, nastiest, meanest publicity possible — we will do everything we can to make sure that when someone googles their organization or their booklet, all that comes back is a mountain of snarling contempt.
It'll be fun.
Hang on, some of you are getting this completely wrong. DO NOT HAVE THE BOOKLET SENT TO A FAKE ADDRESS. This is not a campaign to make creationists waste lots of money and generate lots of garbage in landfills—it is an exercise in informed analysis. You are supposed to have the booklet sent to yourself, so you can read it, and you can critique it. We'll then have a discussion about its failures. You won't be able to participate if you haven't read the silly thing, now will you?
Also do not have it sent to random people you don't like. They won't bother to criticize it here, either.
Comments
Posted by: Rorschach | July 25, 2009 4:41 PM
I'm not giving any stinking creobot mailers my email or even postal address, thank you very much.
And to think that SB gets money from those anti-science liars is a wee bit disturbing, too, economic hard times or not.
Posted by: SamB
|
July 25, 2009 4:48 PM
Oh hey, they ship to the UK!
That'll drain their income :)
(Not that I'm gonna sign up...)
Posted by: Terry
|
July 25, 2009 4:49 PM
Or, one can use Firefox as one's browser, and install an add-on called Flashblock. Then one doesn't have to see any of the annoying ads.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 25, 2009 4:50 PM
Hmmm. If the Pharynguloid hordes click on the ad itself instead of the link provided above, ScienceBlogs will probably be accused of defrauding the advertiser, and (if it's provided through an intermediary like Google Ads) the ScienceBlogs account with that provider might be terminated.
Can't lose! :-)
Posted by: Dr.Bad | July 25, 2009 4:54 PM
Ordering the crappy little booklet will also help stimulate the economy. Someone has to produce, print, and deliver it. And since churches seem to have a lot of tax-free money, why not use theirs to bump the economy.
Posted by: Lanz | July 25, 2009 4:56 PM
You can download the pdf and enjoy it right away, though I like the idea of making them pay postage...
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/EV/
Posted by: blf | July 25, 2009 4:56 PM
I haven't seen (or at least noticed) the ad yet, so I'll hold fire. As for giving liars my e-address, use an anonymous e-mailer, such as Mailinator.
I myself am not too concerned about snail-mail address: I live in France, so I'd love to see the wingnuts wasting money on postage. And it's easy enough to recycle. What does worry me about junk snail-mailings is that waste of resources in producing and delivering the junk.
P.s. Apologies if this appears more than once. Something weird is happening to my internets connection—or at least to SciBorg, which has started whingeing (on Preview (and Post?)):
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 25, 2009 4:57 PM
They can lose severely if it causes google to cancel the adsense account if scienceblogs is using adsense.
I'm quite happy for them to have ads on here, it's a waste of their resources.
Thanks to firefox add-ons the only time I reallise there are ads on a site is if someone mentions it.
Posted by: blf | July 25, 2009 5:01 PM
SciBorg, which has started whingeing (on Preview (and Post?))
Looks like if I make the "mistake" of Previewing, then I cannot either Preview or Post.
(Posted without Preview.)
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | July 25, 2009 5:05 PM
Or you can use the "send one to a friend" option and send one to an already established creotard. Thus wasting their funds, stimulating the economy as said in #5, and having it only getting to the already brainwashed.
PZ, you could, for example, send one to Kwok. He must have provided you with an address to send the camera to.
People, if you do order one for yourself though please remember the power it may have and use it wisely. Kitty litter springs to mind.
Posted by: Rorschach | July 25, 2009 5:06 PM
Or when I am forced to use IE, e.g. now, at work. *grin*
Posted by: SC, OM, Blogmistress | July 25, 2009 5:11 PM
But I have ads on my ***NEW BLOG***!
http://saltycurrent.blogspot.com/
*pout*
Posted by: owlbear1 | July 25, 2009 5:17 PM
How wonderfully discordian of you, PZ.
haha!
Posted by: mxh | July 25, 2009 5:17 PM
The problem with this proposal is that with more clicks and signups the creationists will start targeting other science organizations. With lots of ad money being thrown around, it might push those science organizations to be more creationist friendly (i.e. the Discovery channel wouldn't want to upset it's source of income by airing a program that may go against creationist claims).
Posted by: Iris | July 25, 2009 5:18 PM
Ordered the booklet AND a free subscription to their Good News magazine. From the site:
...because no human insight worth knowing could have possibly occurred to anyone since then. Good News? Why, that is freaking great news!
(Preview is not my friend today, either.)
Posted by: Chrystal Ocean | July 25, 2009 5:19 PM
A booklet is on its way to a certain Canadian address. Canna wait to tear it to shreds, first on my blog, then literally, into the shredder.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | July 25, 2009 5:21 PM
Hi Rorschach *waves*
Sucks to be at woik this tme on a Sunday morning. Me, I'm in my jimjams, with the heaters on and eating vegemite toast. Easy Sunday morning.
Posted by: Sigmund | July 25, 2009 5:28 PM
Whatever about the creationist ads whats with all the disgusting and sexist Evony ads that keep appearing on scienceblogs.
The company behind them is decidedly shady
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/jul/15/games-evony-spam-internet
Does scienceblogs currently have precisely zero standards?
Posted by: Doug
|
July 25, 2009 5:28 PM
The Creation Museum can afford to run a lot of ads with all the pro-science crowd throwing their money at them to see their silly little exhibits.
Posted by: joseph | July 25, 2009 5:29 PM
Ads are annoying, it's true. But unless people start paying bloggers and web creators directly, how else are they to continue to earn revenue for their hard work?
I too am not sure about giving creationists my address, or ordering more material - don't they base requests for donations on numbers of such requests, thereby implicating us in their psuedo-spiritual ponzi schemes as we permit them to up their own salaries prior to giving them free advertising?
Posted by: Darren Garrison | July 25, 2009 5:30 PM
I used to have a free subscription to the ICR's "Acts and Facts." Drain some money from them, if you can stomach having a booklet of Young Earth nuttery delivered to you each month.
http://www.icr.org/index.php
Latest issue on-line:
http://www.icr.org/aaf/
Posted by: NewEnglandBob
|
July 25, 2009 5:30 PM
Why not order it and have it sent to an address of someone that annoys you or have it sent to Ray Comfort or someone like that. I might just have it sent to the address of a local city's incinerator.
Posted by: healthyaddict | July 25, 2009 5:32 PM
Well I ordered one for myself. I'll be sure to make a youtube video about it...
::: facepalm :::
I can't wait for all the other free literature they'll send me!!!
Posted by: Zeno | July 25, 2009 5:34 PM
If you use Preview and then discover you can't post your comment, click your browser's Back button a couple of times to take you to your original comment (to the state it was in just before you clicked Preview). Now hit Post (after making some tweaks, if needed). It works for me.
I hope eventually this, too, will be fixed.
Posted by: Manuel Santamaria | July 25, 2009 5:37 PM
I just got my subscription.
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 25, 2009 5:38 PM
Wait, SC, you have a new blog?
Why didn't you mention this before? I had no idea...
Posted by: Ricardo | July 25, 2009 5:39 PM
They also ship to Mexico (they claim "the literature" should arrive in 4-6 weeks). I guess they will run off of resources pretty soon if they keep shipping their garbage abroad.
Posted by: Rorschach | July 25, 2009 5:39 PM
joseph @ 20,
Good point.
I spend so much money on crap every month, I would not for a moment hesitate to pay up a small amount for the fun I get from Scienceblogs..:-).Better than to get revenue from xtian fundies.
Posted by: Angel Kaida | July 25, 2009 5:45 PM
We should all send them to Westboro :) They're our friends, right?
Posted by: Mark Wisborg | July 25, 2009 5:45 PM
I was wondering if there was ever going to be a post on those wretched ads. Anyways, I ordered the material yesterday, and can't wait to go through it with a fine-tooth comb, picking my way through all the logical fallacies, arguments from incredulity, quotes mines, and more. There shall be no mercy.
Posted by: SC, OM, Blogmistress | July 25, 2009 5:48 PM
Funny you should ask, Marc! Indeed, I do!
You can find it at
http://saltycurrent.blogspot.com/
Again, that's
http://saltycurrent.blogspot.com/
Stop by, donate, add me to your feeds - I'm not proud!
So many posts in the works...
Posted by: MTGAP | July 25, 2009 5:50 PM
Pharyngula, where do you get all these fun ideas from?
Posted by: Kalyn | July 25, 2009 5:51 PM
Wow. Sounds fun :) I'm in.
Posted by: Sushi | July 25, 2009 5:53 PM
I LOVE this idea. I just signed up, I can't wait.
Posted by: TrekkinBob | July 25, 2009 5:54 PM
I made the mistake of giving Contact. afa.net my email address in order to participate in one of their polls. I've been getting their right wing Xtian propaganda ever since - sent thankfully to my spam folder so I can view it at the time of my choosing ;)
Posted by: Maezeppa | July 25, 2009 6:01 PM
I signed up using my "public" email where everything but my paypal receipts go straight to the junk folder.
I gave them a real name and real address, though. Oh, not mine.
Posted by: Jared | July 25, 2009 6:01 PM
If you, like myself, don't feel like giving your name to the deranged, it's available in PDF form here:
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/EV/EV.pdf
Posted by: jemand | July 25, 2009 6:02 PM
well... over 200 atheists following this site are indeed planning on visiting the museum so maybe they think the advertising pays?
But getting free stuff they'll have to pay for... that does sound good.
Posted by: Roy | July 25, 2009 6:04 PM
This stuff works really well, too. If you look for "Life Source Basics" you find my hastily written rant in the first or second hit.
Good times.
Posted by: JamesC | July 25, 2009 6:05 PM
Since the form is fairly straightforward HTML, couldn't we just write a short script to fill in random name and address details from lots and lots of countries.
If they were getting hundreds of thousands of extra requests which ended up going nowhere wouldn't that put a dent in their coffers?
(well, no, I suppose that just punishes the poor gullible fools that fund them.)
-j
Posted by: Steve13 | July 25, 2009 6:16 PM
Everyone should give their name as Charles Darwin
Posted by: John Marley
|
July 25, 2009 6:19 PM
Actually, you don't even have to provide an email address. It's optional "for email confirmation only"
Posted by: Cathal | July 25, 2009 6:21 PM
I'd love to have them incur the cost of shipping one (or several) all the way to Ireland, but I don't think that I can justify the carbon footprint :(
Posted by: Uncephalized | July 25, 2009 6:28 PM
Use AdBlockPlus, never see an annoying creationist ad again (or pretty much any ad, for that matter).
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 25, 2009 6:32 PM
No, please don't put in fake addresses. The point isn't to rip them off, but to get their booklet and make an informed criticism of their bad ideas. Getting books only to throw them away defeats the purpose.
Posted by: Tom | July 25, 2009 6:33 PM
Use a fake name. That way you can track what they do with the list.
Dick Duckins
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 25, 2009 6:42 PM
Does scienceblogs currently have precisely zero standards?
that's not the way typical adfeeds work for websites.
It's rare advertising on websites is done directly with the advertisers themselves, instead what typically happens is a website contracts to an ad-feeder company, that then sends blocks of ads that rotate through the space. That company then pays the website based on clickthroughs.
the choice of ads to use in the rotation is the pruview of the feeder company, not the website.
That said, if the website has enough traffic, they typically can ask the feeder company to include specific advertisers (provided that feeder company already works with them), or remove certain companies from rotation.
You can't ask that too much, though, as if it becomes too much of a hassle for the feeder company to privately manage your ad banner rotations, they might just decide to drop you as a client.
I can't say just how much ad revenue sciblogs generates for the feeder company they use, but I would imagine it's enough for them to ask for certain ads to be pulled from rotation at least every once in a while.
Posted by: Miguel | July 25, 2009 6:42 PM
Hey, they said they'll mail it to Brazil. I REALLY want to see them paying the shipping fees to South America.
Once it arrives, I'll put it out so the dog will have its way with it...
Posted by: RightWingAtheist | July 25, 2009 6:44 PM
Though I first giggled at this little scheme, I do feel a slight amount of sleaziness in it. If you are going to request this book of bullshit even just for the purpose of reading and laughing at it, go ahead. But for us to order tons of them with the sole intent of throwing throwing them in the bin and costing them money by scamming the system... I'll stick to insulting them openly and honestly.
If you need a utilitarian reason to stay out of PZ's scam, consider how deceptive this makes us look to potential atheists.
Posted by: Wouter | July 25, 2009 6:53 PM
My copy to South Africa will take 4-6 weeks :)
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | July 25, 2009 6:55 PM
Requested the booklet, hopefully by the time it arives my domain troubles will be straightened out and I can blog on it.
For SC, OM: Saw your blog. You do go on you do. Wish more people wrote at length like you do.
On the ads on Science Blogs: Methinks SB is going to be dropping their ad service soon and handling the ads themselves. Pharyngula is getting creotard ads because PZ talks about creationism. The ad service bots monitoring this blog can only note that creationism is mentioned, not why. So since creationism is relevant to Pharyngula according to the bots' coding, creotard ads get placed here.
Posted by: Dave Godfrey | July 25, 2009 6:56 PM
I was going to review it, but then I started reading it, and the page-long quotes from Werner Von Braun, the scathing dislike of Thomas Aquinas who had the temerity to suggest that perhaps you shouldn't take the Bible literally, and the fact that they basically copied the standard "the fossil record doesn't show evolution, look our out-of-context Gould quote, and misunderstanding of "living fossils" proves it", got too much.
They're not saying the Earth is 6000 years old. (They're not telling you how old it actually is, but the days of Genesis should be taken literally). Apparently when Satan rebelled the world got broken so God had to put it back together again.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 25, 2009 6:59 PM
In the blurb for the booklet:
"If human beings are the pinnacle of the evolutionary process, how is it that ..."
Lies mixed with nonsense until you can't tell which is which.
But gosh, ain't it wonderful that, all along, Evolution was working to create US?
On the other hand, I'll bet atheist men as a group have statistically bigger pinnacles than Christian men. It's why chicks who dig science are soooo into us.
Posted by: Aquaria | July 25, 2009 7:02 PM
I myself am not too concerned about snail-mail address: I live in France, so I'd love to see the wingnuts wasting money on postage.
Oh ye of little knowledge of fundies and the USPS.
I used to be the postal clerk who processed the mailings of Max Lucado, a particularly vile little toad of an evangelist. He sent massive quantities of books, DVDs, pamphlets and the like to countries all over the world. His little toads were such veterans at sending out international mail that I only had to ding them once for making a mistake, and that was a failure to sign one of the custom forms.
They had international mailings--Every. Single. Day. And Lucado is definitely on the B-list (if that) of holy rollers. Nowhere near in the league of Hagee, Robertson, Dobson, & etc.
What does worry me about junk snail-mailings is that waste of resources in producing and delivering the junk.
I understand about the waste of paper, but I wouldn't get too hepped up about a piddly mailing of maybe a few hundred flyers being a burden on the USPS. Do you realize that we process over a million letters every single day, in San Antonio alone? 500 letters would be nothing, taking maybe 30 seconds for us to run on our machines, that automatically sort the mail for our carriers. Good grief, the lady at the mystery bookstore here in San Antonio had a monthly mailing list that made 500 flyers look like kids play.
Posted by: Malo | July 25, 2009 7:06 PM
http://www.verticalthought.org/subscribe/
Here's another 'totally free', hard copy, two year subscription, from essentially the same source, www.ucg.org.
That's almost a whole tree.
Posted by: NeuroWhoa! | July 25, 2009 7:13 PM
4-6 weeks here too. I'm looking forward to receiving their crap booklets, it'll save precious toilet paper.
Posted by: NeuroWhoa! | July 25, 2009 7:15 PM
4-6 weeks here too. I'm looking forward to receiving their crap booklets, it'll save precious toilet paper.
Posted by: Malo | July 25, 2009 7:15 PM
http://www.ucg.org/
This be them - visit and click on contact - and they're all over.
Posted by: Jon H | July 25, 2009 7:16 PM
"but they probably will stick your name and address on a mailing list of the gullible (don't worry, though, you aren't, so you are contaminating their list)."
Which they then rent out, so simply giving them your name is providing them with income.
Use a fake name and address, if you must.
Posted by: Jon H | July 25, 2009 7:18 PM
Better yet, if you feel you must give them a name and address, give them a fake name and use the address of an Scientology office.
Posted by: Malo | July 25, 2009 7:19 PM
They have your IP address whether you give a fake or not. I used mine and marked 'for a friend'. Saves me some shame... sorta.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 25, 2009 7:19 PM
Save the address, PZ, and repost it in November for us cold-climate residents. It's always good to have a stack of firestarter paper next to the fireplace.
Posted by: Joe | July 25, 2009 7:20 PM
I got my "creation vs evolution" booklet in the mail a few days ago. I haven't bothered to look at it (finishing "Unweaving the Rainbow" and the latest Wired first). Maybe I'll get around to that.
Also, still can't sign into scienceblogs.
Posted by: overburden
|
July 25, 2009 7:28 PM
"I don't believe in the Bible because dinosaurs lived a long time before man ever did."
What we don't know is how long it took Lucifer to rebel—and how long this was before the six-day renewal of the earth culminating in the creation of Adam and Eve, as described in the rest of Genesis 1. Satan's rebellion apparently happened after the earth had passed through the dinosaur age. Then, geologists agree, something dramatic occurred between the age of reptiles and the age of mammals.
How in the name of the holy jeebus do you make that leap?
Posted by: DoctorOHM | July 25, 2009 7:35 PM
Let's see if they send it all the way to sweden, that'll cost them.
Posted by: Buzz | July 25, 2009 7:35 PM
I remember when that show came out on Animal Planet with that woman who was supposedly reading dog's minds. I wrote Discovery saying it was a slap in the face to science, and they responded with a bunch of fluff.
Posted by: overburden
|
July 25, 2009 7:36 PM
http://www.ucg.org/booklets/EV/EV.pdf
For all of you who don't want to order the crap, here is the pdf of all 41 riveting pages.
Posted by: overburden
|
July 25, 2009 7:39 PM
Scandinavia
Guds Enade Kyrka
P.O. Box 3535, 111 74, Stockholm, Sweden
Phone: +44 20 8386-8467 Fax: 0046 0142 10340
E-mail: sverige@ucg.org
Posted by: AggieAtheist | July 25, 2009 7:42 PM
"I did, and it really is free — they don't ask for a credit card number, there are no hidden shipping fees,"
Please understand, this literature is NOT free; it is being funded by 68% of the 10% annual tithe of their income that EACH MEMBER of the United Church of God (they have approximately 11,000 members worldwide) has to pay the Home Office each year.
The United Church of God is one of the largest breakaway splinters of the Worldwide Church of God, that was forced into traditional Christianity in 1994, by Joseph Tkach Sr., the successor to the throne of Herbert W. Armstrong. There are over 700 individual splinters of the church that resulted from this, each one of them claiming to be "the one true church of god".
United, however, is the splinter that looks and smells almost identical to the way WCG was in its heyday. Including three tithes (each 10%), holy day offerings on each of "the seven annual sabbaths" (a bastardization of Judaism's holy days), special offerings taken up whenever, "just because", and oh yes, did I mention the Anglo-Israelism?
Thaaaaaat's right, folks, they're anti-Semitic Christian Identity believers. Fortunately for all, church doctrines prohibit the owning and carrying of guns. Which is the ONLY thing that stands between any Church of God splinter becoming an out-and-out survivalist militia. And I speak as a former member, born and raised in "the church".
"We'll give them publicity, all right, but it will be the harshest, nastiest, meanest publicity possible — we will do everything we can to make sure that when someone googles their organization or their booklet, all that comes back is a mountain of snarling"
Ahahahahahaha WONDERFUL! They were squealing like stuck pigs at the general conference this year, about how they had to utilize the Internet!! :-D
Posted by: overburden
|
July 25, 2009 7:44 PM
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/
Or, go here and check 'em all - free and 'educational'.
Posted by: CalGeorge | July 25, 2009 7:46 PM
A copy is on its way to my friend Santa Claus, who is summering in the Northern Mariana Islands.
Posted by: Ben in Texas | July 25, 2009 7:48 PM
I gave my name as "Creationist Nonsense."
It will be funny to see that arrive.
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 25, 2009 7:49 PM
PZ stated in the OP that the point was to get the books to criticise them. He repeated this in a subsequent comment (before you posted) when people suggested getting the books just to throw them away.
Posted by: SC, OM, Blogmistress | July 25, 2009 7:50 PM
I have one long post (the most recent). The others are relatively short.
http://saltycurrent.blogspot.com/
Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | July 25, 2009 7:53 PM
Works for me.
Posted by: mikecbraun | July 25, 2009 7:53 PM
I think all of this has something to do with the coming into power of a left-leaning administration as well. All of these fucking creeps seem to be coming out of the woodwork: I've even got a creationist coworker trying to convert me. Laughable shit: I read one of his books, "A Divine Revelation of Hell," by some deranged hooker named Mary Baxter. It's easy and fun to mock and dissect these idiots' arguments, but it's also scary that they're feeling the need to get more in-your-face. Hopefully he doesn't kill me for the lambasting I gave his precious little collection of tinder. I don't pull punches...hopefully he does. Most creationists, and Christians in general, are huge cowards--that's why they need to believe in Big Sky Daddy instead of having the balls to stand alone.
Posted by: chemie | July 25, 2009 7:57 PM
Is that booklet made of celluse or just data? If it's made of cellulose I'll take it, then destructively distill into something more useful.
Posted by: Paul The Burptist | July 25, 2009 8:03 PM
Just ordered everything that I could possibly get.
Can't wait for the comedy pamphlets to arrive.
Posted by: overburden
|
July 25, 2009 8:10 PM
Remember, they're all in pdf files for all those eager beavers thirsting for knowledge.
One of my favorites "Why Does God Allow Suffering?".
So you can keep publishing this shit, of course.
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/
Posted by: Somnolent Aphid | July 25, 2009 8:12 PM
I love reading the pamphlet. It reminds me how amazing the world really is. And also reminds me that it doesn't require fairies of any sort, large, small, omnipotent, or otherwise to be just this amazing.
Posted by: MadScientist | July 25, 2009 8:18 PM
In today's news, Ken the Ham promises to only use revenue generated by visiting atheists to pay for advertising.
Posted by: Danny | July 25, 2009 8:20 PM
I took them up on their offer and requested the free booklet and received it last year. It's a glossy full-color magazine, about 32 pages or so. It has several articles, mostly about creationism, and a few articles on faith and Jesus. Wish I could say more but I moved last year and I don't think I brought the magazine along. I guess I'll have to re-request it. :)
Posted by: Dahan | July 25, 2009 8:35 PM
I sent one to the abandoned house I live next to.
Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | July 25, 2009 8:40 PM
From the pamphlet/website:
Horseshit, pure and utter. In my public school English class in 10th grade, we read several parts of the Bible as literature.
Yes, Michael Behe's nonsensical criticisms are certainly suppressed, aren't they? What a bunch of goat testicles. "Not affirmed or accepted" is not the same thing as "suppressed".
If the Bible is true and humanity is the pinnacle of God's creation, why does a process as basic as human reproduction fly in the face of everything that Christianity holds true?SERIOUSLY. They spend several paragraphs arguing about how even bacteria reproduce more efficiently than we do, and about how animals are capable of caring for themselves right out of the womb... then act like this doesn't present a problem for THEIR claim.
And then they go ahead and quote the Lady Hope story as fact. ASTONISHING. The quote from Bounoure is a lie, too; it's half a quote from Bounoure mixed with a quote from someone else (the "fairy tale for adults" part).
I especially love this part:
No, it's not. There's a verse or two in one of the Pauline letters where he specifically says that it's not God's words, but his own; I'll have to re-read them to find it.
I can't take much more of this. I'm done for now.
Posted by: PervyPirate | July 25, 2009 8:44 PM
OK, just couldn't resist. I sent a copy to "my friend" in Nepal. I took the time to write an exotic name, an existing city and of course, the correct postal code. Couldn't think of an address, so I just used the Klingon words for "Your mother has a smooth forehead" (looks exotic enough)!
Posted by: Dinosaur Teacher | July 25, 2009 9:11 PM
I couldn't bring myself to subscribe to the Good News, but I will if its suitably entertaining.
Reminds me of when a whole bunch of people got Focus on the Family to send them the Narnia DVD free.
Those Evony ads are hilarious.
Ad 1: Medieval Guy with sword
Ad 2: Medieval Gal in barmaid outfit
Ad 3: Save your lover!
Ad 4: Save the cleavatious queen with a phallic sword pointed at her bosom. NOTE: The FAQ saves there is no Queen.
Ad 5: Lingerie models.
Ad 6: Bra.
Posted by: rufustfirefly | July 25, 2009 9:23 PM
If they include any self addressed, postage paid envelopes, stuff the envelopes with the heaviest material they'll hold, and mail them back.
Posted by: Andrew | July 25, 2009 9:31 PM
Done it!
Posted by: Michael Kingsford Gray | July 25, 2009 9:31 PM
I live in South Australia, and they have promised to send me a copy.
I would not actually mind to have some of this bumf to read whist on the loo.
Posted by: RightWingAtheist | July 25, 2009 9:48 PM
Marc Abian:
Thanks. I did not read the existing comments carefully enough, and I only saw the sleazy ones.
Apologies to PZ.
Posted by: Matt Pickard | July 25, 2009 9:52 PM
Sounds fun PZ. I have a blog. It will be a nice companion piece when I get through ripping apart "We dream in Chinese." Another load of crap.
http://www.wedreaminchinese.com/
Posted by: Jack Dawkins (no relation) | July 25, 2009 9:56 PM
Do they also send a self-addressed, stamped envelope? Perhaps they would enjoy some correspondence in return? Someone once told me he sends large boxes full of bricks to junk mailers by taping the SASE to the box. That might get expensive for our new friends, though, since they pay the postage.
Posted by: Dave UH | July 25, 2009 9:58 PM
I'll have to think of something fun to do with my booklet when it arrives. Although, I signed up for a free bible once and it never came...
Posted by: Gary | July 25, 2009 10:01 PM
Just ordered it. Didn't use Charles Darwin but did use Joe Btfsplk = if you are younger than 50 or so, you will not see the humour in that.
Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2009 10:09 PM
I'm having it sent to my work address. Our secretary can always use scrap paper...
Posted by: DA360 | July 25, 2009 10:09 PM
Obviously I live near Cincinnati and ALL the local broadcast stations show ads for that stupid place >_
Posted by: DA360 | July 25, 2009 10:14 PM
Obviously I live near Cincinnati and ALL the local broadcast stations show ads for that land-of-line. So yea, I am not surprised by this.
I am surprised however their going national with it. But I am not surprised by discovery, considering they have shows based around ghosts... (Despite their my one of my favorite stations)
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | July 25, 2009 10:32 PM
I wonder how much ads on scienceblogs are?
It'd be nice to do one: "sick of dumb religious ads? me to. this blank, flash-free space brought to you by evangelical atheism."
Posted by: Katkinkate | July 25, 2009 10:37 PM
Hi AggieAtheist, I'm and exmember too. Paid my tithes and offerings for 15 years, until just after Joseph Tkach Jr. took over. I got out before the scisms began, but I could see signs of it then.
Posted by: Chuck D | July 25, 2009 10:57 PM
I put my name as Charles Darwin before I read the comments and found out someone already had that idea =/
Posted by: Morgan MacLaren | July 25, 2009 11:09 PM
Good one PZ! I love this idea. I signed up and I will be posting a suitably critical dissection on my blog. Been looking for something idiotic like this to take the piss out of. Will keep an eye out for your thread on this and join in the fun. Will be fun reading everyone else's blogs and comments too.
The good news (no pun intended) is that I live in NZ so hopefully they will have a long way to ship it! And I have 3 canaries and a parrot. The magazines will make great cage liners for them to shit all over – or perhaps they can read it first and then crap themselves laughing.
Damn, I wish I had read Steve13 and MikeTheInfidel comments (#41 & #75) before signing up and called myself Charles Darwin our Satan Antichrist!
Posted by: mikeg | July 25, 2009 11:31 PM
i'll try but i never got my free book from it's been so long ago i can't remember... we were going to slash that crap to pieces too but never heard anything since... anybody else recall the name of the free book... last spring?
Posted by: No BS | July 25, 2009 11:54 PM
Went to the website and read some of their tripe.
Same tired arguments. Reading it reminds me of a three year old bleating the same obnoxious "I wanna" over and over again to wear you down. All the citations lead back to creationist literature of one form or another. PZ, I love you but I would much rather go back and re-read your articles on Hedgehog.
Posted by: Kobra | July 26, 2009 12:25 AM
The literature should arrive in 2-4 weeks
This information is for: Me
Mailing Address
Godless Heathen
[delteted]
N Ft Myers, FM
USA
Just in case they do submit me to a mailing list. :P
Posted by: Rational Behavior | July 26, 2009 12:31 AM
Someone told me once that if you get tired of being on a mailing list, take the little 'postage free' envelopes they provide for donations and send them back empty. They have to pay the postage regardless. I also heard of people putting small plastic bags of sand in them as well to make the postage cost more due to the weight.
Posted by: Kobra | July 26, 2009 12:39 AM
@105: Or this:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=junk_the_junk
Posted by: Sara | July 26, 2009 12:49 AM
On the one hand: I could make them send me one to Japan.
On the other hand: giving them my name and address? Ew.
Whatever shall I dooooooo!
Posted by: Jason | July 26, 2009 12:50 AM
Most commercials on Discovery, like most cable channels, are sold and aired by the local cable company. Discovery Networks has little control over these local commercials, only the national commercials that air on the network's shows. So it's not Discovery Networks' fault, but rather the local cable company.
Posted by: Mike Holt | July 26, 2009 12:54 AM
I just ordered it and they will have to pay postage to Australia ha ha! Let them use their stolen money for this! I will delight in putting my critique up on my blog and sending you a link. Yippee! Let's stick it to them.
Posted by: Gordy | July 26, 2009 12:59 AM
Sara
My dilemma precisely...
I make a point of recycling all my junk mail, but I'd rather it was never sent in the first place so I'm reluctant to encourage it. I'm tempted in this case though!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 26, 2009 1:23 AM
I hope they ship oversea... If they do, more money they've spent.
Posted by: Uncle Glenny
|
July 26, 2009 1:26 AM
Darren@21: I used to have a free subscription to the ICR's "Acts and Facts."
Unfortunately their form requires an email address so one can receive their daily Devo-tional. My mailing address (in the name of my "niece" who even has a phone listing), fine; no email.
Posted by: Travis | July 26, 2009 1:43 AM
Uncle Glenny, couldn't you just create a junkmail address at hotmail or some other free e-mail provider and have it sent there?
Posted by: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood | July 26, 2009 2:06 AM
Nice to see some godless Swedes here. I've moving to Sweden in about six weeks time. I trust the god-botherers aren't too obnoxious there?
Posted by: Uncle Glenny
|
July 26, 2009 2:19 AM
travis@115:
I don't want to bother, at least not now. I certainly don't want to check it; and if they have one they may use it for announcements. i.e., I'm having the junk sent to an alter-ego, and want to let them think it's real. I may work out that alter-ego later; I have the Rev. Something-or-other receiving stuff on nuclear non-proliferation, and my "niece" and my long-deceased dog keeps getting offers from American Express (the particular naming they use was only attached to yet another now-defunct phone line from when I had lots of modems).
Posted by: cadra | July 26, 2009 2:39 AM
Hank Fox: of course man is the final outcome of evolution. Evolution is fished. Only a darwinist can see everywhere "natural selection in action" and -"adapatation" even nowadays. On the other hand the same darwinist fails to see hierarchical structure of living organisms, higher and lower forms. But great zoologists and botanists of 20th century were of another opinion, like professor Adolf Portmann or professor Wilhelm Troll. More here, non-darwinian venue:
http://cadra.wordpress.com/
Posted by: Sigmund | July 26, 2009 2:46 AM
"Nice to see some godless Swedes here. I've moving to Sweden in about six weeks time. I trust the god-botherers aren't too obnoxious there?"
You never really notice the religious here in Sweden - they keep to themselves. There are churches all over the place as well as the occasional synagogue and mosque but despite the rumours we nasty atheists don't actually want to burn them all down. The public perception here is different from my native Ireland where the existence of God is seen as something that is 'obvious', whereas here it is quite the opposite - particularly in terms of religious beliefs which are seen as obvious superstition. I guess there must be some sort of tipping point in the population where the public exclamation of religious belief becomes liable to cause accusations of superstition when non believers reach a certain percentage.
By the way PZ, what a terrible idea.
As others have said it's a waste of good trees that otherwise wouldn't have been needed (its not as if you are likely to take all their stock and deprive a creationist of a desperately needed tract) and will contribute to climate change.
Second you have been partly responsible for encouraging hundreds of non-creationists to attend the Creation museum - at a cost of 22 dollars each! That's thousands of dollars given to their cause!
I know its fun laughing at creationists and the creation museum is one big homage to 'The Flintstones' but surely there are ways to laugh and criticize it without giving Ken Ham thousands of dollars?
Posted by: Kristjan Wager | July 26, 2009 2:53 AM
Finding out that it's an Christian Identity sect was an added bonus. I've been wanting to do a piece on them for a while - this might just give me the starting point for that.
Posted by: Rorschach | July 26, 2009 3:08 AM
@ 116,
That'll make Ichthyic so happy...
Posted by: Travis | July 26, 2009 3:47 AM
Sigmund, to be accurate it is only $10 a piece. They have the group rate.
Posted by: Coemgenus | July 26, 2009 4:16 AM
That's four ordered for ranting friends here in the UK. 32 pages long you say? That should cost the loonies quite a lot shouldn't it? I feel very spiritual now.
Posted by: Sigmund | July 26, 2009 4:21 AM
"Sigmund, to be accurate it is only $10 a piece. They have the group rate."
I sit corrected.
Still the point remains that they will receive thousands of dollars from this visit. Its not that I think the idea of a creation museum is wrong - in fact I think the idea is great - although in a more enlightened society it would probably be renamed 'The WTF! Museum'. Its just that I don't agree with giving them money that will be used to spread ignorance further afield.
Posted by: Ciantic | July 26, 2009 4:41 AM
Uh, 41 pages of crap, here is the same in PDF: http://www.ucg.org/booklets/EV/EV.pdf
Posted by: Gavin | July 26, 2009 4:56 AM
Actually, these people have offices in places like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Great Britain, so they'll do the mailout from there. One thing you can say about them is that they don't sell their mailing list, so no need to worry on that count. So you can be guilt free in claiming your copy.
Posted by: Con-Tester | July 26, 2009 5:34 AM
I ordered the Creation or Evolution booklet about a year ago and received it a month later here in South Africa. It didn’t cost anything other than a trip to the post office. Needless to say, the booklet is a tapestry of ignorant lies stitched together with tatty canards.
However the real trouble is, now I keep getting copies of The Good News magazine (it rarely is good news), of which there are six editions annually. I can’t make it stop!
Posted by: Ritchie Annand | July 26, 2009 5:43 AM
*laugh* I had them send this to me just for some source material to criticize. It really is quite bad in a number of senses.
The funny thing is, they sometimes bring up questions which would actually be pretty good questions for a curious non-biologist, things like:
However, they proceed on the assumption that science has no answer for this, or it's a fake answer, or... something, and that is why they fail.
Posted by: Paul Macgowan | July 26, 2009 6:04 AM
Since I did not want to be spammed, I signed up our Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd), since I suspect he is a closet creationist.
I would love someone to ask in a public domain if he believes in Evolution?
... Enjoy Kevin
Posted by: The Skepdick | July 26, 2009 6:12 AM
PZ, I've ordered my copy. Would you like an overall debunking or shall I pick a section to focus on?
One of the horde,
The Skepdick.
Posted by: Wowbagger, OM | July 26, 2009 6:27 AM
I don't believe I've ever encountered anything written by an evolutionary biologist that implies that 'human beings are the pinnacle of the evolutionary process'. I guess there's it's another reminder of the depths to which Liars for Jesus™ will sink.
Posted by: Sean Tyrer | July 26, 2009 6:30 AM
Thanks for the intel, PZ.
For those who have been appropriately disturbed by the movement to law in Ireland of the 'blasphemous libel' prohibition, might I invite some - fuck it - ALL readers of this worthy blog to give a false/real name but the very real address:
Constituency Office
Dermot Ahern TD
28 Francis Street
Dundalk
Co. Louth
Ireland
I'm sure this gent, whose claim to fame is his recent sending back of Ireland to its darkest ages, would be delighted to receive such 'marketing', and in 'multitudes'.
Thanks if you can help,
Styrer
Posted by: Andyman | July 26, 2009 6:59 AM
By the way PZ, don't bag the band Garbage, they did make a couple of atheistic songs and their attractive lead singer is an atheist herself.
Posted by: deadman_932 | July 26, 2009 7:06 AM
After downloading the .PDF version at http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/EV/EV.pdf , the first thing I saw was this:
That's from the old, stale, familiar "Lady Hope" fraud that's been around for eons.
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 7:26 AM
Yes I do realize, and that's precisely the point: Processing (including delivering) that million letters consumes an enormous amount of resources and generates far too much pollution/GHG. Along with ironing, junk snail-mail is one of the top items on my list for what must be eliminated as we learn to deal with AGW.
Posted by: Em Finn | July 26, 2009 7:37 AM
At least one copy allegedly en-route to China. That'll cost'em.
Plus I'll never actually see it. I receive less than 1 in 5 pieces of my mail anyway.
Posted by: sduford | July 26, 2009 7:56 AM
And as a bonus, they have to pay everytime someone clicks on that ad!
Posted by: António Martins-Tuválkin | July 26, 2009 8:03 AM
Ads for eucalyptus plantations in Brazil give me the creeps, also…
Posted by: Denis Castaing | July 26, 2009 8:06 AM
Well I did my bit and ordered it. Then I glanced at the piece on line. It is the usual creationist garbage. I am looking forward to getting it and writing a critique. A series of links to talk origins and the usual atheist writers PZ, RD, CH, DD, SH, & LM etc. should cover it. I think it will be a useful exercise. BTW I enjoy the short clips on RDF TV. They are succinct and very well done.
Atheist & Proud
DenisC
Posted by: Barak | July 26, 2009 8:10 AM
I don't understand how you can be so calm about it.
Less than a year ago, you urged the readers to contact the Cincinnati zoo about the conflict between what they are trying to do, and the combo ticket they offered with the Creationism "Museum".
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/11/shame_on_the_cincinnati_zoo.php
But for some reason, you seem pretty calm about this "unholy" combination between creationism, and no less than SCIENCE blogs itself.
Is there any chance we can change the minds of the people who accepted these adds?
It's hard to talk about the flaws in creationists when at the same time we allow them to present themselves as science in our own "home"!
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 8:42 AM
I haven't seen (or at least noticed) the ad yet, so I'll hold fire.
Godsdamnit! The shite just showed up. Now I
needought to decide what to really do…(Posted without Preview, fecking SciBorgs is totally borked. Is it this or the ads, which is going to drive people away from the SciBorg?)
Posted by: Gib | July 26, 2009 8:45 AM
I've signed up, and they're sending it to me in the UK.
I hope they don't have a local distributor.....
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 26, 2009 8:55 AM
Those of us lamenting the possibility of exacerbating pollution or waste by ordering these books, etc., you have a point, but it may be you're not seeing the bigger picture.
This stuff is poisoning human minds, making people less rational. Which means, less able to absorb and understand new ideas. EVERY environmental issue, from global warming on down, is helped by having reasoning humans dealing with it, and harmed by having stupid, scared people of faith cowering in the ignorant dark and listening only to their parasitic leaders.
Assaulting the source of this poison, by polluting their mailing lists with reasoners and providing a loud, critical pro-scientific backlash against it, that in itself is a net plus to the planet. Waaay beyond any small damage the effort itself might do. Lancing a boil is a small injury that allows the bigger injury to heal.
Ditto for going en masse to the Creation Museum. You think there won't be major news coverage -- an embarrassing public spotlight -- of that event? It'll be the biggest event of the year among the scientific blogging community, and will empower opposition against the "museum" far beyond anything the small amount of money will do in favor of it.
And man, I wish I could be there, I wish thousands of us could be there on that day, making it the biggest, splashiest bit of publicity Ken Ham has ever seen. Because it won't be POSITIVE publicity, it'll be laughter so loud they'll hear it as far away as Tierra del Fuego.
Sure, Ken Ham will try to put a positive face on it -- "Hey, I screwed thousands of dollars out of a bunch of atheists!" -- but the real outcome is going to be the negative spotlight on him and what he's doing. Because he really is lying. The "museum" really is a con game. It really does treat its guests like intellectual bumpkins. Within a month of this visit, ten times more people will KNOW that.
And I'm sure PZ and the rest are going to point out that the people Ken Ham are REALLY screwing -- out of uncounted millions -- are all the unwitting victims who walk through the door and believe what they see.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 26, 2009 8:57 AM
Argh.
"... the people Ken Ham IS really screwing ..."
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 26, 2009 9:26 AM
Ironing? Do tell.
I think that's far worse.
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 10:18 AM
Ironing is completely pointless and totally un-necessary; at c.1KW per household (steam?) iron at X minutes per week per house, it adds up to a lot of completely pointlessly and unnecessarily consumed power; that in turn implies a overconsumption of fuel and overproduction of pollutants/GHGs.
(Posted without preview due to SciBorgs being totally fecked now.)
Posted by: Jonathan Christian | July 26, 2009 10:27 AM
I could not watch more than the first 9 seconds of the video on their site. "If you think that there is any proof that this monkey is your relative..."
Arrrggg! That is cleary a chimp!! Shimps are apres!! They managed to screw up basic science terminology right out of the gate.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | July 26, 2009 10:28 AM
Re Comment 143:
Not to mention the piglets...
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/02/ken_hams_new_book.php
Posted by: not a gator | July 26, 2009 10:29 AM
Guy, guys! You don't use your real names for this--you use joke names, like Irma Squid and Sodium Laureth Sulphate. (Btw, my wife STILL gets CC solits for SLS, after using that name to register a website years ago.)
Richard Tater would love a copy of your pamphlet. So would Shiera Daltry, Earnest Dimwittie, and Orly Taitz.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | July 26, 2009 10:30 AM
That would be comment 142.
Fix "Preview" NOW, dammit!!!
Posted by: Somnolent Aphid | July 26, 2009 10:30 AM
Their argument about reproduction lost me. Personally, I rather enjoy having someone else to reproduce with. I know. Funny coming from an aphid. And again, these materials they are circulating seem to need to put humans at the top of some imaginary hierarchy, when the rest of creation understand that humans are just another petri dish for things to flourish in.
Posted by: Aph | July 26, 2009 10:41 AM
Not sure how I feel about these advertisements. I suppose Discovery is a for-profit organization so when times are tough caving on principle and promoting lies to make some extra coin is to be expected. It's just a shame to see it happen.
Posted by: a lurker | July 26, 2009 10:57 AM
Using a unique slight variant on your name will reveal if they sell your name and who they are selling your name to if they do.
Of course they will get money from selling your name. But the good news is that money will be coming organizations we all would like to see lose money. Those buyers will also lose money via the postage to send you junk mail.
They claim not to sell your name. Posters here are in a position to find out.
Posted by: not a gator | July 26, 2009 11:33 AM
@133
Ironing? That's how I keep my cotton goods lasting longer. How is purchasing more highly processed products made of synthetic fibers or throwing my clothes out earlier supposed to lower carbon emissions?
Now, if you were suggesting we all go around naked, that'd be different. However, I must opt out as my skin will not take that level of UV radiation and I'm not up for hiding in a cave all day. Sorry.
Posted by: not a gator | July 26, 2009 11:47 AM
@144
You are making a lot of unsupported assumptions. To wit:
How many minutes per week? Is it greater than the kWh expended opening the 'fridge door and staring at the contents? I only iron monthly, and I only iron what's wrinkled.
If I have the dry cleaner press my suit, how does that expend more energy than having the factory create (& press!) a brand new suit, then ship it halfway across the world to me? Isn't preserving the existing good a little easier on the environment in every way?
You presume that garments do not need ironing. I suggest you try using 100% cotton sheets for a year without ironing and observe what happens to the edges. Eventually the edges fold over, then fray, and finally the frayed creases come apart. Essentially, failing to iron 100% cotton will lead to early damage and destruction of that garment.
Agriculture requires so many pounds of petrol-based fertilizers. So in what way is destroying perfectly good clothing through neglect BETTER for carbon emissions, hm?
One "remedy" for wrinkles is to dry clothing in a dryer. Does this not consume much more energy than ironing?
Another remedy (which only partially works) for ironing is to hang clothes in a steamy room. How many kWh's does the water heater consume?
I think the answer is obvious. An iron is a small appliance which operates on 110V AC, while a dryer or WH operates on 220/240V AC. Furthermore, an iron can dewrinkle much more quickly and effectively than tumble dry or steaming.
Finally, if you raise natural fibers then convert to a rayon, or extract petroleum then convert to polyester, how does this extra step utilize less carbon than simply milling cotton fibers? Unless, of course, you wear the cotton garments out prematurely by tumble drying and not ironing, giving it a much shorter lifespan than the more highly processed fibers.
Posted by: Northern Teacher | July 26, 2009 11:47 AM
Why not just get the pdf version here:
http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/EV/
Gives you a quicker laugh!
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 11:51 AM
Of course you don't wear synthetics. Total straw-man. No-one ever said you should wear such silliness.
Ironing is simply evil. It's as stupid as using a dryer. I've never ever seen any evidence for the claim ironing somehow helps maintain one's cotton goods; the only claims I've ever seen (for cotton clothing) is it prevents one from supposedly looking not very nice.
(Posted without Preview since SciBorgs is completely fecked up.)
Posted by: Helene | July 26, 2009 12:00 PM
Ordered the booklet and am waiting to be saved ---- by the upcoming pharyngula discussions, that is.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | July 26, 2009 12:00 PM
From Northern Teacher's link:
Posted by: RobL | July 26, 2009 12:10 PM
Whenever I get (snail) mail from organizations like this I use the “no postage necessary” return envelope they provide, stuff it with all the garbage they have mailed me, and send it back so they have to pay the return postage. It’s petty but it makes me feel good to cost them money.
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 12:12 PM
I do use 100% cotten sheets. Exclusively. (As is a fair amount of my clothing.) I don't know now how old the sheets are, except they all must be at least six years old. They have never been ironed. And, as far as I can recall, they have never been dried in a dryer (they might have been so-dried when new, but since the age is a mystery, this is unclear).
And they are in perfectly fine shape. The edges are not unraveling, nor are they folded over. I repeat: I've never seen any evidence that ironing does anything for preserving or enhancing the lifetime or usability of cotton goods. (It is, of course, possible there is some reliable evidence from a trustworthy source since I last looked, but I doubt it.)
There is no point to ironing. Or tumble drying. Both are an evil waste of resouces that accomplish nothing useful.
Even if you do happen to consume that 1KW for less than an hour a month, it's still completely un-necessary. Nor does everyone have that same control; greater uses of irons can be found, and I strongly suspect over-use of tumble driers is even more common.
(Posted without Preview since SciBorgs is as fecked as ironing.)
Posted by: Knockgoats | July 26, 2009 12:24 PM
Science media especially are suffering, so everyone is scrambling to scrape up whatever revenues they can. The other thing to notice is that in a down economy, faith-based lies and wishful thinking are cheap to produce and continue to sell, so that's what's happening. There isn't much we can do other than to grab every penny we can from them. - PZ
There is an alternative: a principled stand against lies. Scienceblogs should ask their ad-feeder company not to include these ads - and if they won't comply with the request, find a company that will.
As for sending for this sort of wretched rubbish - no thanks. I have a huge backlog of worthwhile books to read. PZ, I value your work as (among other things) a dissector of this kind of crap - but that's only worth doing if, like you, one has a place to post the dissection where a significant number of people will read it.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 26, 2009 12:25 PM
blf #159: There is no point to ironing.
Since I don't wear bedsheets out in public, I do find occasion to iron shirts, usually the all-cotton ones. There is a point to ironing. I don't know anything about the longevity of ironed versus un-ironed items, but I do know a bit about the real effect appearance has in human society.
You can just bet Ken Ham has his shirts ironed, as does Pat Robertson, Bill O'Reilly, etc., because they want to look as good as possible while out selling people their lies. (On the other hand, I doubt if Rush Limbaugh irons his shirts. Pressed up against his corpulent body, wrinkles die a merciless death.)
Posted by: The Uppity Atheist | July 26, 2009 12:30 PM
I
headread and obey, my master.Posted by: Buridan | July 26, 2009 12:31 PM
OT: Has anyone else noticed that Dawkins's site is down?
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 26, 2009 12:33 PM
I generally don't iron, either. I do tumble dry, as there's no room in my apartment for a clothesline.
Posted by: llewelly | July 26, 2009 12:36 PM
There seems to be a built-in assumption that ads, no matter how obnoxious, only bring in revenue. However - obnoxious ads do drive people away. Fewer people means less ad revenue. Obnoxious ads reduce revenue. Believing that 'we have to put up with these hideous ads because times are hard' is actually a dangerous delusion. When you put up with the obnoxious ads, you lose revenue - and in hard times, that is very dangerous. This is a case of having exactly the wrong reaction to a difficult situation.
Posted by: John | July 26, 2009 12:51 PM
I sent for mine just now. I am curious as to what lists my name may end up on, so I made some small alterations to it. Nothing so off-the-wall so as to make it undeliverable of course, I want to see this drivel for myself.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 26, 2009 12:52 PM
that's a pretty broad definition of evil you have there.
Posted by: aratina cage
|
July 26, 2009 1:00 PM
Hey AggieAtheist and Katkinkate, glad you got out of Armstrong's clutches. I have people close to me who have been in it their whole lives. The pre-schism church was decidedly worse for them; I don't know what it has done for them besides giving them a nineteenth-century view of gender roles, segregating them from American culture (birthdays and holidays forbidden, holy day is Saturday not Sunday), keeping them locked in poverty, making them distrusting and avoidant of modern medicine and science in general, depriving their children of any semblance of an education, and making some of them think they have squatters rights in Israel as lost Jews. It's a pretty heavy burden for members.
Posted by: Hank Roberts
|
July 26, 2009 1:27 PM
This is hysterically funny -- links to an Australian review of American religious television shows.
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/07/freethinker_sunday_sermonette_162.php
Posted by: ... | July 26, 2009 1:42 PM
Discovery isn't a science channel anymore. Just stuff that panders to the average viewer and reality shows. I stopped watching a long time ago.
Posted by: Dianne | July 26, 2009 1:55 PM
but they probably will stick your name and address on a mailing list of the gullible
Perhaps at some point they'll send you a snail spam request for donations. Perhaps they'll include a postage paid envelope with this request. Perhaps you have a spare brick or phone book lying around that this envelope could be taped to and then dropped back into the nearest mailbox... Hypotheticals, all, of course.
Posted by: Jon Voisey | July 26, 2009 2:18 PM
My copy has been ordered along with 2 more on biblical prophecy.
Posted by: John Mashey | July 26, 2009 2:22 PM
For a while, Scienceblogs had ads for Bjorn Lombrog's Cool It! book, popping up @ Deltoid, much to TImLambert's displeasure. It is always useful to have multiple examples to understand the mechanisms, as Internet advertising often doesn't work the way people think.
See:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/08/so_whats_wrong_with_lomborg.php
If you're not familiar with Lomborg, he operates in different segments of anti-science than creationists, and uses much more sophisticated strategies:
http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/lomborg-long-game/
Posted by: blf | July 26, 2009 2:28 PM
Doing something that is a 100% waste of resources is evil.
The iron shirts to look better argument is silly. Wearing ironed shirts makes many people look like a plank of wood: Flat and just plain ugly. To try and forestall yet more strawmen, I did not say wearing a not-ironed cotton shirt makes one look nice. It certainly can look horrible. It does not, however, have to.
Whilst I intensely dislike tumble drying as well, I do recognize that not everyone can use the Sun, and that there are times when indoors clotheslines are inappropriate. So whilst I'll complain about tumble drying, and consider it evil, its evilness is less than the purer evil of ironing. One is totally un-necessary and avoidable, and the other should be avoided.
(Posted without Preview due to the recent upgrade to pre-iron-age technoworkogy…)
Posted by: Russell Miller | July 26, 2009 3:10 PM
They WILL eventually ask you for donations. This is how they get their hook, and this is how the WCG did it for years before them. First they send you free stuff, then they put you on a "coworkers" list and attempt to drag you deeper and deeper in. Eventually they'll tell you that there are congregations around and won't you call a minister for a consultation? And oh, all this stuff isn't free after all and other people will eventually want to read their free stuff after all, so send them some money after all. And... well, at least in their mind, you're hooked.
It's a mind control cult. They're slightly more open and slightly less corrupt governmentally than the old WCG, but be careful.
Posted by: Marcos Vinicius | July 26, 2009 3:50 PM
Do they ship to places outside the US?
Posted by: Gerrit Bijl | July 26, 2009 5:40 PM
I requested the booklet from The Netherlands and they accepted the request.
Now wait and see.
Posted by: Raiko | July 26, 2009 5:44 PM
I requested my booklet from Germany and it says it will take 4-6 weeks to arrive. I'm gonna miss the big "critique-marathon", right? :(
Posted by: Texas Reader | July 26, 2009 6:15 PM
i can't WAIT to get it and feed it to my shredder!!!!
Posted by: Jacob Saxton | July 26, 2009 6:21 PM
Marcos Vinicius, they do ship to outside the US, they have branches in most European countries and Canada, Australia... etc.
I ordered mine about a month ago (because I'm wicked cool) and got it last week. Unfortunately, it's a few hundred miles away as I'm away from home for a while. However, I do remember that the section on the eye is especially full of hilarious bullshit. Have fun.
Posted by: AggieAtheist | July 26, 2009 7:59 PM
"It's a mind control cult. They're
slightlymoreopen and slightly lesscorrupt governmentally than the old WCG, but be careful."Fixed that for you, Russell; anyone who thinks UCG is any way "mostly harmless" in comparison to WCG Classic, clearly did NOT listen to Dick-head's sermon at the General Conference of Elders this year.
UCG IS "god's true church", or at least a passable enough imitation of what I remember of same, that the organization scares the ever-living SHIT right out of me.
Still, could be worse, I guess: There's always Weinland. :-D
*waves to katkinkate and ratinacage*
Posted by: Chris H | July 26, 2009 8:01 PM
I ordered it over a year ago, overseas. I did not get any other mail afterwards. May differ for US citizens.
The content itself is the usual outrageous selection of lies.
Posted by: Number8Dave | July 26, 2009 9:03 PM
I like the way that the first authority they quote as saying the universe must have had a creator is Wernher von Braun, the Nazi's own favourite rocket scientist. Of course later they say that Nazi philosophy was based on Darwin.
Posted by: Katherine | July 26, 2009 10:11 PM
"This is not a campaign to make creationists waste lots of money..."
Aw c'mon...
Posted by: Michael | July 26, 2009 10:39 PM
I've requested that a copy be sent to my address in Australia - and I've ordered the magazine as well.
Posted by: Katherine | July 26, 2009 10:56 PM
Anyway I got one sent to NZ. If they have a local office here, why would it take them 4-6 weeks for it to arrive?
I'll avoid any spoilers and go at it with a highlighter when it arrives ^__^
Posted by: Katkinkate | July 27, 2009 12:20 AM
Re the ironing question: I've managed to reduce my ironing to once every few months or so by putting an old mop across the top of the shower recess and hanging my washing while still wet on coat hangers in the shower, shaking and smoothing the wrinkles out and letting them drip dry. For everyday wear it is fine. I now only iron a couple of cotton shirts that the creases won't drip dry out of and clothes I need for formal occasions (interviews, weddings, stuff like that). I had the understanding that ironing increased the wear on clothes rather than preserved them.
Posted by: Gwydion | July 27, 2009 12:27 AM
Also, if you want to tell the Discovery Channel how ridiculous it is for running the ads in the first place, try this link:
http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations
It's a slow system, but it works.
Posted by: Katkinkate | July 27, 2009 12:49 AM
aratina cage said "Hey AggieAtheist and Katkinkate, glad you got out of Armstrong's clutches. I have people close to me who have been in it their whole lives. The pre-schism church was decidedly worse for them; I don't know what it has done for them besides giving them a nineteenth-century view of gender roles, segregating them from American culture (birthdays and holidays forbidden, holy day is Saturday not Sunday), keeping them locked in poverty, making them distrusting and avoidant of modern medicine and science in general, depriving their children of any semblance of an education, and making some of them think they have squatters rights in Israel as lost Jews. It's a pretty heavy burden for members."
You know, it seems funny from this side of the experience, but at the time it just seemed to make sense mostly and the bits that didn't I just shrugged off. I left it feeling guilty for not believing it any more, like I'd let them down by pretending I was still one of them for the few extra years I stayed, from when I realised I didn't really believe it at all, till the day I decided it was past time to go. I felt like I was accepting their friendship under false pretenses. Now I wonder how much I actually believed was right and how much I accepted as the price of entry into the social group. I know I had a lot of trouble with the 'women's role' thing, the mistrust of medicine (I worked in a hospital) and the old anti-evolution booklet I was assured didn't reflect current thought. I guess they changed their minds about that.
I pretty much prefer to stay in denial, but I have to admit they did stuff me around a bit. The Sabbath thing cost me a couple of good job opportunities. And the no Christmas/birthdays thing caused a lot of tension and bad feeling in my family. At the time I just accepted it and carried on as best I could. I just swallowed the 'women's role' stuff and resigned myself to a spinster's life, 'cause I couldn't see myself submitting to any of the men in my social group. Especially after that 'promise keeper' stuff started stirring them up.
Posted by: Daniel | July 27, 2009 1:47 AM
I sent for their "special evolution issue" close to a year ago. I received it, laughed at it and ever since I have been receiving their magazine every other month. It's terrible, that's all I can say. They have articles such as "Who would Jesus vote for" and "Would Jesus Christ celebrate Easter?" splashed among their frequent ramblings about the end of the world.
Posted by: SteveL
|
July 27, 2009 4:31 AM
I ordered it, but I'm wondering now if that was wise. It's illegal here (Singapore) to be in posession of some of this crap (mainly Chick comics and anything Jehovah's witness related). Ah well guess it goes straight into the recycling bin when it arrives.
Posted by: Cosmic Teapot | July 27, 2009 6:08 AM
I read some of their site last week. Evolution is apparently false because raising kids is difficult!
The comedy value of that site is worth the occasional visit, but I don't think I will order anything as I have better things to do than read religious propaganda.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 27, 2009 6:35 AM
I got onto a mailing list by some accident, probably by ordering something like this thing, and now I get these twice-a-week 'American Family Association Action Alerts' from some freak named Donald Wildmon.
The latest one has the horror-inducing headline, "Healthcare Reform Moving Toward Euthanasia," and follows up with "Dear Hank: President Obama's new healthcare proposals move our country another step toward implementing euthanasia and rationing of health resources."
Posted by: Mickelodian | July 27, 2009 7:53 AM
This is a science blog right! ???
The booklet is NOT a scientific document but rather a tirade of 'why santa is not dead' Am I right?
Okay well first off any ads running on this site would have a high clickthru but VERY low conversion... give them the inventory and burn their budget! (yes I do work in searc marketing btw)
Next why are we bothering to do this? to convince ourselves they are wrong... well anyone with half a brain would realise this... and anyone without the education or indeed with less than the aforementioned half brain is not exactly a loss to the scientific community...
Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 27, 2009 9:08 AM
o/`
Vonce ze rockets are up, who cares vhere zey come down?
Zat's not my department, says Werner von Braun...
o/`
Posted by: Ex-Android | July 27, 2009 10:02 AM
I can see the humor in this exercise. But just realize that you are playing into the hands of Christian cult leaders who bleed hundreds of the poor sheep with "tithing" commands. The leaders show their followers they are "doing the work" while skimming most of the money for their paychecks and lifestyles. Anything left over is for printing booklets and other needs of evangelizing.
The point is, you are just hurting poor simpletons who think they are doing a holy work. They are not evil people. They are just ignorant dupes in the hands of slave masters.
I can speak as I was one of these fools for 25 years in a cult called the Worldwide Church of God run by a charlatan named Herbert W. Armstrong. The people you are now going to be in contact with are former followers of Armstrong. They are just operating one of the spin-off churches among hundreds of others.
Posted by: Dennis Diehl | July 27, 2009 10:05 AM
I was associate with that particular "I don't come from no monkey" church, which it is. They are Bible readers and can't imagine that the creation accounts aren't literally true because they do not know either how nor why the Genesis accounts are there in the first place.
Go for it. Make monkeys out of them and their preaching to the choir booklet. You can bet that not one of their writers had anything but a Bible in front of him when he wrote about how it all is in the fossil record and will end with statements such as "the wisdom of man is foolishness with man" or "there is a way that seems right unto a man, but the ways thereof end in death." Hey...it all ends in death!
Posted by: Dennis Diehl | July 27, 2009 10:07 AM
I was associate with that particular "I don't come from no monkey" church, which it is. They are Bible readers and can't imagine that the creation accounts aren't literally true because they do not know either how nor why the Genesis accounts are there in the first place.
Go for it. Make monkeys out of them and their preaching to the choir booklet. You can bet that not one of their writers had anything but a Bible in front of him when he wrote about how it all is in the fossil record and will end with statements such as "the wisdom of man is foolishness with man" or "there is a way that seems right unto a man, but the ways thereof end in death." Hey...it all ends in death!
Posted by: MissT | July 27, 2009 11:04 AM
Ok. Signed up for it. I will file it with the Jehovah's Witness magazines I keep finding on my doorstep.
Im not a science expert, most of what I know I learned from PBS, but I can tell just from the ad that they have no idea what Darwin's theories were.
Posted by: Marcos Vinicius | July 27, 2009 11:09 AM
I just requested their crappy booklet. They say that it should take 4-6 weeks to be delivered in Brazil. I can't wait to read all those "good news".
Posted by: jaywalkker | July 27, 2009 11:41 AM
I just checked the ad and I almost feel haunted. The publisher, United Church of God is a splinter group of the (now) defunct WorldWide Church of God that was previously headed by Herbert W. Armstrong. I was actually raised in the cult of WWG so am familiar with various splinter groups. If you signed up for the Good News magazine, expect a "Newsweek style" magazine that will portray current events in the light of Revelation. They're an end-times cult that follows old testament law and are horrid people. I think that either UCG or another splinter, Philadelphia Church of God prints The Plain Truth, which is really just more of the same. Check 'em out on Wikipedia for more info. They, fortunately, presented Christianity to me in such a way that I had no other choice but to become an atheist.
Posted by: johnb300m | July 27, 2009 1:02 PM
I love these free creationist mailings. Their hard "earned" money has to go toward producing, printing and shipping the damn things. It's stimulus for all! And then their tax free income can go to....the US Postal Service...aka, the Govt, so it a way it's getting them to pay taxes that they're exempt from. A stretch I know, but I'll do it!
Posted by: Architeuthis | July 27, 2009 1:44 PM
I've just signed up to get the drivel. And of course, I'll be slamming it on my blog.
Cheers!
Posted by: Pattanowski | July 27, 2009 2:53 PM
What happened to integrity?!?!? This kind of thing makes me sick. I think that nearly any time a committee of market "researchers" get together, something insane and foolish happens. "Advertising excecutives" Oh, I've got to run to the toilet!!!
Posted by: AJS | July 27, 2009 3:08 PM
I block all advertisements anyway. My screen, my rules, and I'm under no obligation to prop up anyone's faulty business model.
Still, I look forward to seeing the publication being eviscerated on several websites.
Posted by: eyelessgame | July 27, 2009 3:50 PM
Don't do it!
The expense for those "free" books and pamphlets is borne by the nonprofit church organization. It's paid to the for-profit printing company, which of course marks up the printing cost significantly. The owner of the printing company thus makes a killing.
And the owner of the printing company generally also runs the church.
Those giveaways are a straightforwad scam of the tax laws. Don't ask for free stuff from a church - it gives money to the fraud preachers by allowing them to launder their flock's donations through printing companies they own.
Posted by: Katkinkate | July 27, 2009 5:25 PM
Wow 5 ex WWCoG members. Hi Jaywalkker and Dennis. For those unwilling to sign up for a booklet through the mail, for whatever reason, they're available online. The link is given above somewhere. Oh here it is, try here:http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/EV/EV.pdf
Posted by: Medusa4303 | July 27, 2009 6:12 PM
Done.
Let them waste their time and money by sending me some dumber than a box of rocks "literature."
President Obama would be happy that I'm helping to "stimulate" the economy. Just think of the printshop workers we're helping!
I used to work in the printing industry. Aside from porn or other questionable items, they didn't care what we were printing.
Posted by: Djinna | July 27, 2009 8:51 PM
Chalk up another on the ex-WWCoG member lists right here. Being raised in that one, it's really hard to go anywhere other than straight-up atheist, at least for those of us who came along back when they were still pushing the anglo-israeli thing. But hey, at least we were pure about shellfish! I honestly think we had more sermons about the evils of porkchops and easter than of being gay.
Though, nothing made them happier than seeing more numbers of requests for literature. Trust me, my dad ran the area Plain Truth distribution, we fought to get as many out there as possible for people to throw away. Of course, this was 20 years ago, back before they started chilling even remotely.
Posted by: DingoJack | July 28, 2009 1:06 AM
Here you go.
Try these Australian addresses with your favorite bogus name and email address:
- Elizabeth Drv Kemps Creek NSW 2171
- 31 Bannick Crt Canning Vale WA 6155
- 1512 Nudgee Rd Nudgee Beach QLD 4014
- 94 Maffra St Coolaroo VIC 3048
- 60d Perry St Matraville NSW 2036
- 16 Kembla Way Willetton WA 6155
- Lot 73 Curtis Rd MacDonald Park SA 5121
All are recycling depots. - :) DJ
Posted by: Allen | July 28, 2009 3:24 PM
I'm excited to get this. A lot of you don't understand and think that by ignoring opposing viewpoints, you can defeat them. Waste their time and money by letting them send you their literature. What's in it for you? KNOW THY ENEMY. These christians (and others) train themselves and their followers how to combat your viewpoints by knowing what your views are and having a response ready. They feel so vindicated and righteous when you have nothing to say in response. Learn. I know ignorance is bliss, but that makes you no better than those who ignore reality in favor of faith.
Posted by: Gareth Edwards | July 28, 2009 4:26 PM
The only thing stopping me from ordering a booklet is the utter embarrasment of my postman thinking I believe their crap.
Posted by: Katkinkate | July 29, 2009 6:03 PM
Gareth,
Look at it online. The link is given above, multiple times.
Posted by: Mark | July 31, 2009 4:07 AM
I tried PZ, I really did, but I only managed to get a few pages into this drivel before I had give up. You're a better man than I if you manage to get to the end of it without slitting your wrists.
I posted a bit of a critique of the part of it I managed to get through, but that will have to be it for me. I have a life to live.
http://hypocritesandliars.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-turns-out-that-cretinist-booklet.html
Posted by: Eric R. | July 31, 2009 4:03 PM
OMG...
I was a victim of the original church that this church, United, sprang from (The Worldwide Church of God). I was raised and indoctrinated in it, taught to believe these ridiculous, fundamentalist things and yes, my life did suffer greatly because of it. I am thankful that when I grew up I studied science and saw how full of BS these people were, or I would still be in this evil, horrible cult. That is all that they are.
I was shocked when I followed PZ's link and saw the old magazine, 'The Good News' along with the rest of this cult's garbage. I don't want to stop you all from doing anything you want to do (such as this booklet critique), but I warn you that this church is really, really EVIL, I mean I cannot even begin to describe. I have a thousand horror stories I can tell you. I am feeling sick at my stomach now, like I want to throw up. I really feel my childhood was ruined by this church and I urge you all not to have anything to do with them.
Sincere thanks,
Eric
Posted by: chopped liver | August 2, 2009 12:59 AM
I notice that everyone is very emotional about this, as if you are very zealous in fighting for a cause. How else can you explain the multitude of responses advising ordering the booklet to make the publishers waste money? It is as if you are fighting a war and the publishers of this booklet are the enemy. But how few are willing to do what PZ Myers asked you to do, which is to read the booklet and critique it in detail. Failure to do this might suggest to outside readers of this blog that you are not able to do this rationally. This would seem to support what some critics of evolution claim, that acceptance of evolution is based on emotion and not reason or logic.
You can't use the excuse that you are waiting for the booklet to be delivered because a multitude of commenters have pointed out that you can download the booklet immediately in pdf format.
So I am still waiting for the detailed critique of the booklet to begin.
Posted by: AggieAtheist | August 2, 2009 10:57 AM
Whoa, lots of ex-member atheists on here it seems! :-) I agree with everything all of the ex-members above have said, and I speak as someone who was born and raised in the church, AND was a "true believer" (in the Eric Hoffer sense).
The astute will also note that, every piece of United Church of God literature you order will mention another piece of literature, or two or three, which in turn will mention another piece of literature. This is also how they get you sucked in, as all of it is "free" (at the tithes-payer's expense, which is 30%+ of their annual income some years). The telecasts are the same, and always have been. This is the same technique you will see employed on the other splinters' television shows, i.e., LCG's "Tomorrow's World" or CGI's "Armor of God", or PCG's "Key of David". (I know I'm leaving at least two others out.)
"You can't use the excuse that you are waiting for the booklet to be delivered because a multitude of commenters have pointed out that you can download the booklet immediately in pdf format.
So I am still waiting for the detailed critique of the booklet to begin."
CL is right. You can start in on the booklet now, and not waste any more of the gullible sheeples' money.
tl;dr: Download the PDF and get to work eviscerating already! The United Church of God is the last and largest remaining splinter of "true" Armstrongism left on this earth. Once this group folds, a considerable amount of the evil of this theology will finally be eradicated from the world.
Or do the fundie atheists here not have the balls to step up and actually do something good for their fellow petri dishes??
Posted by: David Waldock | August 2, 2009 11:34 AM
I just received my copy of The Good News "Special Edition" - Bringing Up a Moral Child. I didn't get the creationism version :'(
Oh-ho, I thought, I wonder how much this overlaps with the training I received when I studied social work many years ago (don't worry - I gave it up to do real science!).
"Is proper child rearing a lost cause?" What is this "proper child-rearing" of which you speak? Apparently, "many parents feel overwhelmed when they consider their child-rearing responsibilities - and the world our children are inheriting. Such is symptomatic of the moral malaise we face."
Uhm, sorry, what "moral malaise" is that? Children are no better or worse, fundamentally, than they ever have been. There's a problem that (certainly in the UK) a number of parents who use a "no discipline" technique, but I'd argue this isn't so much parenting as non-parenting, and I don't think it's a moral failure so much as a symptom of a society which constantly pressures parents to spend more time at work to make money and which doesn't discuss basic parenting skills at school at all. Most of the kids grow up into fine adults - and the vast majority of young people are NOT the high-profile louts who hang around on street corners, smoking and swigging cheap sparkling methylated spirits.
The magazine helpfully highlights some of the symptoms of moral decline:
- Swearing by professional sportsmen (he's used a FOUR LETTER WORD in the name of all that is holey!).
- People are apathetic about absolute moralism (the ten commandments "...codify in a handful of words acceptable human behaviour ... for all time" because
- People don't talk about god seriously (there's a reason for that, you know...)
Fortunately, this paragon of publishing virtue has four keys to better parenting:
- Education, esp. spiritual guidance
- Personal involvement, apparently, you can't leave it to the nanny!
- Discipline, the quotes from Proverbs suggest that taking instruction is a good idea (although obviously their definition of discipline is different to mine...)
- Hugging, holding and reassurance
Nothing particularly revolutionary, but can I just use the phrase "positive parenting" to summarise it?
A few pages on, we are informed about "Society's Steady Slide Into Sexual Immorality", and in the back is an article which appears in "Verticle Thought", Good News' sister publication for the younger audience.
So what is this slide into sexual immorality? Don't worry, they have all the facts:
"What's the endgame of wrong and promiscuous dating? ... Ragged and jaded emotions; sinfully violated bodies (both genders); a haunting, sad-eyed, brokenhearted guilty conscience; premarital pregnancies ending either in the weary and lonely existence of single-mom misery or tiny aborted lives snuffed out before they can even cry for help.
"Need we even mention sexually transmitted diseases and the statistical tendency of sexually active young people to engage in other risk behavior like smoking, drinking and illegal drug use with the related criminal paths such things can lead to? That’s a crummy kind of dating."
Yes, you read that right. Good News Magazine has just equated having consensual sexual relations with heroin-fuelled burglary. Speaking personally, I am in favour of more premarital sex, but the other half says I have to be monogamous :’(
Obviously, good dating is opposite-gender only (denial’s always an option for those who have evil homosexual tendencies – you can store up the unhappiness for later in life), and you should be aware that dating “often leads to marriage”.
Apparently girls want (and forgive me if this list makes you vomit):
• Gentleness, kindness and sincerity
• Easy to communicate with
• Maturity on demand
• Chivalrous, respectful and eager to serve others
• Appropriate self-confidence with a strong work ethic, finding joy in his work
• Self-control with money and a tempered temperament
• Patience with women and womanly behaviour they don’t fully understand
• Not self-centered; interested in all kinds of people
• Thoughtful and appreciative – one “thank you” goes a long way
• A positive attitude when approaching the challenges and trials of life
• Tamed-down heroism in the daily details of life (apparently, this means sending flowers!)
• Creative attentiveness; he knows what to do and when – “Remember, fellows, God made the man to be the primary leader of the family.”
• A good cook and good eater
• Emotionally secure, with absolute trust and trustworthiness
• Ability to compromise on practical matters
• Common sense and intelligence
• Willingness to change when needed
• Ability to prioritize his life
• Right kind of ambition – a go-getter
• Most importantly, a strong belief in God and His way of life.
So what about what guys look for?
• Honesty with diplomacy
• Uncomplicated, and says what she means
• Thinks for herself and is not clingy
• Gracefully polite and courteous
• Graceful in damage control
• Graceful in posture; fit and strong. (Apparently, guys notice the fit and strong ideal woman/girl of Proverbs 31:17!)
• A good sense of style and modesty in dress (here in Britain, that probably means addiction to Laura Ashley *shudder*)
• Cleanliness in person and housekeeping
• Empathetic; notices the needs of others and is willing to server
• Desire to teach children (dating leads to marriage which leads to kids!)
• Good cook and good driver
• Joyful happy personality with a good sense of humour; a complete person
• Strong the faith and dedicated to God and His ways
Is it any wonder I’m gay?! Seriously, guys, is that REALLY what you’re looking for in women?
Ultimately, sexual morality comes down to a simple pair of questions:
• Is the sex consensual?
• Will the sex cause harm to people who have not consented?
I include the second question because sometimes people’s sexual relations result in a wider harm being caused. So if you want to use a jack hammer in the bedroom, be prepared to deal with the complaints from the next door neighbour, or you decide to brand your name onto your partner’s buttocks, be prepared for the hospital to complain when it gets infected.
This creates an interesting analysis of prostitutes, of course. Yes, the sex is consensual (assuming the prostitute is truly there out of choice), but does their plying of trade cause harm? The “highly moral” countries (you know, the ones which have major problems with teen pregnancies and STDs) say yes it does, it lowers house prices, and many prostitutes use drugs, which are associated with criminal activity.
However, if you remove the behaviour from the context, the answer is no, it doesn’t cause harm in and of itself. Whilst prostitution is illegal, people (pimps, drug dealers) will exploit prostitutes. This is what causes the STDs, the house price problems and the associated crimes. Give women the power back and the choice to do what they will with their bodies and both prevalence and associated harms will likely reduce (as has happened in the Netherlands). Interestingly, if you create new opportunities for young people and give them aspirational role models, you’ll also find fewer of them choose to sell their bodies. The last thing we should do is treat these victims as criminals.
Ultimately, the real problem with “sexual morality” – as defined by this brand of religion – is that it is self-fulfilling as a prophecy. If you spend all your time telling people they are immoral if they have sex – by promoting abstinence-only sex education for example – they will a) feel guilty about it and b) end up with STDs because they don’t know how to have sex in a safer manner.
Worse, in the UK, some young women see the ONLY way to get a house and life separate from the parents is to get pregnant and get into the social housing system. There’s an entire subculture in which girls only value themselves when they have a boyfriend, which of course gives the boyfriends an astonishing amount of power: “if you loved me you’d put out” undermines the identity of young women who define themselves solely in terms of their be-shell-suited-baseball-capped-cheap-gold wearing boyfriend.
Ultimately, the mythology these people are peddling is self-fulfilling and self-defeating. When people realise that one part of the religious foundations are built on sand, it doesn’t take long for the entire structure to collapse.
Posted by: The Irreverent Mr Black | August 3, 2009 12:29 AM
The mailing task is apparently distributed to the geographically-closest branch of the organisation. Alas, those dreams of attrition-by-postal-charges have faded.
The localising of the task brings with it the chance that missionary approaches, under the guise of follow-up calls "to see how you liked our magazine", may occur.
Should this occur, please treat your visitors appropriately...
Posted by: Katherine | August 12, 2009 9:08 PM
I think there might be a bit of spam on here ^^^^
I received my book, looks like they don't have a New Zealand office as mine came from Australia. Waiting on the thread for discussion. There are definitely lots of bits in there that I've seen debunked before.
Posted by: Philip P. | August 25, 2009 10:47 PM
Last!
Almost a full month after the post went up, I'm now linking to my "critique" of the pamphlet. I tend to get overly analytical at the best of times, so it's no surprise that I wrote three posts to cover the entire thing.
I have no reason to expect anyone to check this thread and follow these links, but what the hell do I lose by posting this? Maybe I'll get lucky, somebody will read it and they can explain to me what the hell a decoy fish is.
Post 1 http://tinyurl.com/lx99co
Post 2 http://tinyurl.com/lng6w9
Post 3 http://tinyurl.com/ngkgze