…and this is a 
What a crazy idea for a game show: a Turkish program is looking for 10 atheists to compete for the chance to be converted. What next, a show with healthy contestants competing for the chance to be infected with a disease, and the winner gets a long hospital stay?
The game show producers give their bias away when they announce "We don't approve of anyone being an atheist". They're also planning to have a team of theologians to screen out religious people pretending to be godless so they can get a free trip to the holy site of their choice.
Well, I'm not a fake atheist, but I'm wondering what they're offering to people like me. We go on the program, we get non-stop harangues from crazy imams, priests, rabbis, and monks, and if we don't fall for their foolishness, we lose? I'd be tempted to just say "yes!" to the rabbi to really piss off the Muslim hosts, get a trip to Jerusalem, and then annoy the rabbi when I tell him I lied. Or would the theologians also have to confer to determine that your conversion was sincere?
Comments
Posted by: Kevin Anthoney
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July 4, 2009 8:01 AM
"God is great and it doesn't matter which religion you believe in"
Uh-huh.
Posted by: MadScientists | July 4, 2009 8:01 AM
Will they be convinced with just talk, or are the religious leaders allowed to do some waterboarding (since Dubbyah taught them it isn't torture)?
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 8:01 AM
PZ: "Okay, I convert..."
Host: "YES!"
PZ: "...to Judaism!"
Host: "Burn him!!!"
Posted by: Interstellar Transit Authority | July 4, 2009 8:03 AM
What happens if you show up with a picture of Muhammad?
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 8:08 AM
Oops, I should have RTFA before commenting. I assumed that it was a programme aimed at Muslims.
I think the proposed format would be rather interesting. I imagine it will very quickly turn into a "who can offer the most incentives" game, and the validity of the faiths will be generally unchallenged.
Posted by: James F | July 4, 2009 8:08 AM
Not as good as Upper Class Twit of the Year.
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 4, 2009 8:12 AM
Why would you go on it?
To point out the logical fallacies of religion on live tv. I think it would be a lot of fun.
Posted by: R-Tam | July 4, 2009 8:14 AM
Huh?!
I heard of that show, but for some reason I asummed it was about rewarding the theologian who manages to convert an atheist. Which would be neat concept. Lots of hilarity when you can laugh at their pathetic arguments. Rewarding the atheists seems...idiotic. Professing belief is easy - winning that should be no contest whatsoever (provided you even WANT to win)
Posted by: Somnolent Aphid | July 4, 2009 8:21 AM
wouldn't that be some form of apostasy? would we get to stone you or something?
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 8:24 AM
On further consideration, I think it might be a good idea to get ten 'uppity atheists' to go on it. If not, they may get ten apathetic, unreasoning, ignorant, gullible atheists who could be scared/conned/bribed into professing a god-belief, or ten theists who don't mind pretending (i.e., lying for their deity) that they are godless in order to make it look like atheism isn't a sound metaphysical position; think of those plays that fundy churches put on about converting sinners.
Actually, asking people like PZ might be their way of creating plausible deniability. If all ten convert, and someone accuses them of not inviting any real atheists (admittedly, the NTS fallacy), they can just point to this post.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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July 4, 2009 8:25 AM
If I can't convert to Islam I'm not going to play. So there. Nyah!
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 8:30 AM
@#11
I'm sure they could fill that slot with a Mormon or a Scientologist. Maybe even a Pastafarian!
Posted by: SC, OM | July 4, 2009 8:33 AM
Doesn't speak highly of their views of their fellow religionists, does it?
Posted by: Alex | July 4, 2009 8:36 AM
One of two things. Either the religious leaders give up hope and realise how futile their beliefs are; or the atheists sit back and watch while the religious leaders fight over [insert trivial thing here] or which religion is 'right'
Posted by: Carlie | July 4, 2009 8:46 AM
Also, convert and get a free vacation. Don't convert, and... um... a copy of the home game? Bit of an incentive to fake it, there.
Posted by: DigitalCabinet | July 4, 2009 8:47 AM
In fact according to the Guardian Interview of the producer (I think) of "Penitents Compete" if the atheists convert any of the priests then they will not get any prize!
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 8:47 AM
Or bribery.Posted by: June | July 4, 2009 8:49 AM
If you win, first prize is a week in Turkey; second prize is two weeks in Turkey.
Posted by: DigitalCabinet | July 4, 2009 8:53 AM
In fact according to the Guardian Interview of the producer (I think) of "Penitents Compete" if the atheists convert any of the priests then they will not get any prize!
Posted by: Andrew Holmes
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July 4, 2009 9:02 AM
Say there was a scientologist on this show. Say he was able to convert the atheist. Would the prize then be used to cover the cost of auditing or would the "winner" still have to fork over his own money in order rid themselves of those pesky little thetans?
Posted by: Carlie | July 4, 2009 9:02 AM
Speaking of that general hemisphere of the world, can someone without adblocker say whether there are still human trafficking ads for Russians/"Euro-Asians" showing up on sciblogs?
Posted by: One Eyed Jack | July 4, 2009 9:03 AM
Next month...
I have this great idea for a show. It's called, "Swim for Your Life". We put 10 people in a pool. They tread water until all but one drowns.
The winner wins a lifetime supply of bottled water!
I am a genius!
Posted by: damnedyankee | July 4, 2009 9:04 AM
Well, my holy site is CBGB, which is only a short bus ride from where I'm at anyway. Seems a bit like going the long way around the barn to go all the way to Turkey for that.
Although, if the prize includes paying for meals and accommodations in Manhattan, I might just come out ahead...
Posted by: Zeno | July 4, 2009 9:06 AM
Will there be miracles? That would be nice! (And I don't mean a priest praying over bread.)
Posted by: Mozglubov | July 4, 2009 9:07 AM
Yeah, ever since I heard of this show's proposal I have been a little confused... It sounds like it is just going to be bad.
Game shows should probably stick to trivia and word-guessing.
Posted by: AAB | July 4, 2009 9:19 AM
I kind of understand where the game show is coming from. I grew up in a society where loosing your religion is considered like loosing your identity and that everyone kind of feels sorry for you. They really think you want to convert it is just that you were not able to so far. So they think they are doing you a favor by allowing you to compete and have a chance of converting. They are so full of themselves that you can't convince them that you actually like to be free from dogma. Been there done (explained) that.
Posted by: Hank Fox | July 4, 2009 9:20 AM
If I was an atheist in the middle East, I'd worry this was just a way to compile a list of atheists for later disposal. Nothing in the story about whether the atheists will get protection from crazies who decide to kill them for apostasy.
And what about that name "Penitents Compete"? If you're an atheist, the term "penitent" is a null set.
Posted by: Lycosid | July 4, 2009 9:25 AM
The show might get interesting if someone converts to Islam first, then converts to something else.
Posted by: Andyman | July 4, 2009 9:40 AM
So much for freedom of religion. This will be a form of human rights abuse. Someone needs to take a stand.
Meanwhile OEJ, that game show idea is - just - awesome.
Posted by: The Uppity Atheist | July 4, 2009 9:41 AM
Anyone want to spring for airfare to Turkey?
Posted by: The Uppity Atheist | July 4, 2009 9:44 AM
Cod blammit. This should have the right website URL. (I can't even remember my own domain.)
Posted by: Rick R | July 4, 2009 9:44 AM
What are they gonna do? Just take your word for it?
They're going to need to come up with some sort of device to judge the trueness of the conversion, something like a faith lie-detector.
I'm picturing something akin to a rectal thermometer.
Posted by: Kraes85 | July 4, 2009 9:45 AM
Could you convert to all the religions and get four holidays? That would be neat. And I bet it would confuse the religibots.
Posted by: blorf | July 4, 2009 9:54 AM
Convert to satanism. Piss 'em all off.
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 10:02 AM
@#32
I'm picturing a ducking-stool.
Alternatively, if the contestant converts to Judiaism or Islam, the priest could use the bacon sandwich test.
Posted by: matt | July 4, 2009 10:07 AM
funny if more watching the show became atheist from watching it...
Posted by: mdc | July 4, 2009 10:10 AM
A couple of O/T items...
First, self-righteous anti-porn activist Robert Jensen has a new book out exhorting progressives to "engage with a radical new theology." LOL WUT? Appropriately enough, it's from Soft Skull Press.
Second, a Freeport, Ill. newspaper printed this dog-whistle-laden tripe. (Via DailyKos.)
Posted by: Hu | July 4, 2009 10:12 AM
I wonder about the screening process...
Theologian: If you could be absolutely sure you wouldn't get caught, would you rape your neighbours and their dog, torture them to death and then rape them again, just for fun?
Prospective contestant: Hell, NO!
Theologian: Ha, gotcha! You believe in hell and you have some moral values. You're a closet theist. Next!
Posted by: spudvol | July 4, 2009 10:17 AM
A better reality show would be to have religious people try to convert 10 atheists, then separately have atheists try to bring 10 religious people back to reality, then compare their methods and fact-check their claims. One side uses reason and logic, the other side uses fear and intimidation.
Posted by: Martin | July 4, 2009 10:20 AM
I could fake a conversion to Buddhism. I would love to visit Tibet.
Posted by: Rorschach | July 4, 2009 10:26 AM
What muddled mind came up with that game show idea I wonder?
How would you verify/ascertain the conversion,by checking if the candidate starts to hate LGBTs? Or wants to rape and fondle boys?
What a stupid idea.And those people's view of atheists is scary.
Posted by: pdferguson
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July 4, 2009 10:29 AM
This reminds me of a great line of dialog from "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind":
I came up with a new game-show idea recently. It's called The Old Game. You got three old guys with loaded guns onstage. They look back at their lives, see who they were, what they accomplished, how close they came to realizing their dreams. The winner is the one who doesn't blow his brains out. He gets a refrigerator.
Posted by: Kobra | July 4, 2009 10:38 AM
Ooh! Can we rename the show to Pascal's Wager?
Posted by: John B Hodges | July 4, 2009 10:39 AM
If one of the clergy converts to atheism, they should get a pilgrimage to the astronomical Observatory complex on top of Mauna Loa in Hawaii.
Posted by: Gilian | July 4, 2009 10:46 AM
How the heck do you convert an atheïst anyway ? A real atheïst would require proof, so we can expect various deities to poof into existence at said TV show ?
Or would their proof be shouting bible/torah/koran limericks at 'm for hours ?
Posted by: CW | July 4, 2009 10:47 AM
Posted by: Steve_C | July 4, 2009 10:47 AM
You know they'll rig it. 9 atheists and one actor who pretends to be an atheist.
Posted by: John B Hodges | July 4, 2009 10:51 AM
Postscript: It may be Mauna Kea that has the observatories. There is another major observatory in the Azores, and another on a mountain in Chile. I invite suggestions for an appropriate spot for atheist pilgrimages. Greece, in memory of Democritus and Epicurus? India, in memory of their ancient and modern doubters? Darwin's house in England? Tennessee, the site of the Scopes trial?
Posted by: Habba Habba | July 4, 2009 11:00 AM
Oh yeah, a brilliant idea. Convert to a religion that is so moral its followers by default assumed to be ready to cheat in order to go on a holiday trip abroad. Way to go, religions of the world.
Posted by: Somnolent Aphid | July 4, 2009 11:00 AM
Could you imagine if they got Hitchens on as one of the atheists? He's turn the whole flock of believers, priests, imams, whatever, by the 3rd segment. In fact, that would make a much better game show. Last priest to hold onto his beliefs would win something.
Posted by: Steve | July 4, 2009 11:07 AM
Actually, there's no need for them to pretend to be godless. Everyone is godless, most people just don't realize it.
Posted by: Shane | July 4, 2009 11:17 AM
"What happens if you show up with a picture of Muhammad?"
What, like this?
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8643/tongueundies.jpg
Posted by: Patricia, OM
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July 4, 2009 11:29 AM
The kid that plays Harry Potter just remarked in the news that he's an atheist, maybe they should try to get him on the show.
Posted by: ctgopks
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July 4, 2009 11:35 AM
This is so completely silly. It makes me wonder what kind of minds these people imagine would be susceptible enough to conversion to qualify for the show. When I was exposed to Jerry Springer, one of my first reactions was, "Who in the hell would agree to go on this show?" Well....
I absolutely LOVE this:
Religion, you know, is such veeeeery seeeerious business! (Well, I suppose it sometimes is, when some of the religious will kill you for disagreeing with them.)
Did anyone else find it very odd that a Buddhist monk would agree to this? I'm loosely connected to a Buddhist community here (U.S.) and their involvement with proselytizing is exactly zero. No gods either, for that matter, but I am aware that groups alleging they are Buddhists vary considerably in teaching and expression of their beliefs.
Posted by: Lynna | July 4, 2009 11:40 AM
Just another excuse to air lots of hot air about various gods.
Posted by: Dianne | July 4, 2009 11:53 AM
If you go on the show and convert one of the religious leaders to atheism do you both get a trip to the AMNH or Smithsonian? That'd make it a more interesting show: Atheists or believers: who converts first?
Posted by: Christopher | July 4, 2009 12:20 PM
To verify if your conversion was legit they publicly circumcise you and then offer you bacon to see if it now repulses you.
Posted by: Draken | July 4, 2009 12:28 PM
I somehow suspect that during the screening process, they would carefully select those who claim to be atheist, but have never publically expressed so, or who actually show a deist tendency to start with.
I'm likewise convinced that the screening for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire excludes the semi-autistic walking fact encyclopedias, or the show would die within twenty minutes.
Posted by: Citizen Z | July 4, 2009 12:30 PM
Fark.com called it "The Pious is Right".
Posted by: JefFlyingV | July 4, 2009 12:37 PM
I could see the PTL club doing a similar hokie show. IT would be torture having smug smiling Pat Robertson in the same room.
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 12:39 PM
Gilian #45
Your use of a diaeresis makes me happy.Posted by: Sili
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July 4, 2009 12:44 PM
Hi Gilian,
Good to see another member of the Society for the Preservation of the Diaeresis.
Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | July 4, 2009 1:18 PM
Hï Sïlï,
Ï thïnk you meant the Socïety for the Preservatïon of the Dïaeresïs.
Posted by: Marc Abian | July 4, 2009 1:28 PM
If only a trip to a religious site was the prize I guess they'd get a trip to the scientology HQ in clearwater, or Saint Hill Org in London. The cruise (nothing to do with Tom) ship, the freewinds, is where all the most important OT levels are done, but I'm not sure that a preclear would be allowed on board. Though, that's just as well for him since it's loaded with asbestos (they knew about it too, but it won't affect you if you've done your auditing according to L.Ron).
Posted by: Michael Fonda | July 4, 2009 1:47 PM
Sounds like Firesign Theater's "Beat the Reaper."
Posted by: Marc Aresteanu | July 4, 2009 2:14 PM
Sounds like it would be really fun. If I could be assured they wont cut me head off, I'd love to be one of the atheists. I bet Hitch would enjoy this aswell.
Posted by: blf | July 4, 2009 2:20 PM
Carlie@15, yes, both of the slaves for sale ads are still showing up. (At least they are here in France, c.15 minutes ago, at c.18h30m UTC 4-July-2009.)
Posted by: Sleeper | July 4, 2009 2:26 PM
This is the closest I've seen on British TV.
I'm still waiting for the companion series "Can you cure a Christian?".
Posted by: Stygian | July 4, 2009 3:24 PM
What vacation would I get if the show caused me to confess beliefs in the FSM or Cthulhu?
Posted by: XD | July 4, 2009 3:59 PM
Mike #63
Lemmy?Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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July 4, 2009 4:16 PM
Ťĥèŗę̀ś ãľł şøŗťš ơƒ ńēáŧ ľêţŧėřś ŷőų ċàŋ ùšè!
Posted by: Jay Smooth | July 4, 2009 4:28 PM
@ June #18
Absurd TV programming aside, Turkey is actually a wonderful place to visit. :)
(And I never for a moment felt unwelcome there, as a non-believer)
Posted by: woozy | July 4, 2009 4:32 PM
Now, P.Z. would you give up food just because your mother once burned the cookies? If the most refreshing delicious water in the world were next to it wouldn't you consider yourself "losing" if you refuse the offer to drink of it? If you had to wager your non-belief (no win) against salvation of your eternal soul (infinite win) wouldn't it be wise to wager for the infinite gain no matter how low the odds?
... basically that is their thinking. Or rationale... or whatever. *sigh* we've all heard it a million times before so I can't really be surprised at the astounding illogic of the idea of a conversion being an "athiest win".
Still, let's put it the other way: Let's offer a university scholarship to the most critical thinking/rationalist/secular school and have ten fundamentalists compete for it. "Win a chance to doubt your faith! Maybe to the point of having to abandon it completely!"
Posted by: inkadu | July 4, 2009 6:21 PM
Damnit.
I'm already a Buddhist atheist, but I don't want to go to Tibet.
Posted by: Rolan le Gargéac | July 4, 2009 6:25 PM
Rick R #32
Call FaithBusters ?
Kraes85 #33
Four ? Four ? Left, Right and Centre ? What's the fourth ?
Posted by: BobbyEarle
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July 4, 2009 7:13 PM
Citizen Z @59...
Or, perhaps, "Broken on the Wheel of Fortune"
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | July 4, 2009 8:01 PM
Dumb idea. Dumb as in "sack of hammers" or "bag of rocks."
Astoundingly, some people will eat this shit up.
Posted by: Helioprogenus | July 4, 2009 10:31 PM
OK, you all knew it, the token Armenian here has to comment when the topic covers Turks. I try to stay non-biased, and realize that genetically, Turks and Armenians have a close affinity to each other, as most of their cultural byproducts is present from language replacement of the existing populace. As much as nationalists may argue about the purity of their ethnicity, genetics tells a far different story. Yet, these cultural differences, coupled with a contemptuous history do not bode well for peace and prosperity. Further, Armenians, who do claim a cultural affinity towards the Armenian Orthodox Church, mostly do so through cultural pressure, and not discrete belief per-se. I think 70 years of Soviet communism was enough to awaken a few people's consciousness about the irrelevancy of God. Yet, it also strengthened the resolve to believe in nationalistic ties, even when the belief of empty faith like religion is unremarkable. I don't necessarily belief that nationalism is terrible, and am quite proud of my people's difficult journey, yet, I can separate myself from the past and break the useless chains such as victim-hood, and false senses of cultural purity.
To all Turks out there, I know the impression that 95% of you are believers is indicated by numerous studies, but there is that healthy 5% that looks to the future. You Turkish atheist are the cultural future of Turkey. If you want to join the EU, then your government must become tolerant of your existence, and refrain from fearing your growth. Perhaps your government can import competent biologists who will not spin the nature of evolution and natural selection. This my friends is the future, not terrible game shows that indicate a backwards culture--one that cannot envision the future, but purposely drags the uneducated past along on the journey of education and self-fulfillment.
Posted by: DLC | July 5, 2009 1:50 AM
So, the show will consist of a group of Atheists who will, in all likelihood listen to various apologia, reports of miracles, and variants on Pascal's wager and still say "No, I don't believe" after a week ? or whatever. sounds repetitive and boring. Much like most of television these days.
Posted by: amk | July 5, 2009 7:08 AM
Convert to Judaism or Islam and have a piece of your penis hacked off.I think I'll pass.
Posted by: LuchinG | July 5, 2009 11:28 AM
¡Come on, it's for fun! Let's put a show called "Atheit's Eye for the Creationism Guy" If they admit to see evidence of evolution, they win a trip to Galapagos with ten very hot biologists and a certificate of excomuniòn signed by the Pope himself.
Posted by: LuchinG | July 5, 2009 11:32 AM
¡Come on, it's for fun! Let's put a show called "Atheit's Eye for the Creationism Guy" If they admit to see evidence of evolution, they win a trip to Galapagos with ten very hot biologists and a certificate of excomuniòn signed by the Pope himself.
Posted by: LuchinG | July 5, 2009 11:35 AM
¡Come on, it's for fun! Let's put a show called "Atheit's Eye for the Creationism Guy" If they admit to see evidence of evolution, they win a trip to Galapagos with ten very hot biologists and a certificate of excomuniòn signed by the Pope himself.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself
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July 5, 2009 11:49 AM
But you'd have a souvenir to show to all your friends and family. "Look, Grandma, at what I brought home from Turkey."
Posted by: uncle frogy | July 5, 2009 12:27 PM
why would someone want to go on a show like that in the first place?
I think that there is no "REALITY SHOW" that is not scripted so there will be not just one actor but they will all be actors. None are real in any true honest way at all.
They are cast and "written" with ratings in mind and the shows "premise" in mind. Talent contests? Quiz shows? Judging somebody or other?
American Gladiator and the like are at least absurd. Everyone gets paid! Even "Headline News" is selected for ratings and in no way gives any useful information as to what is going on or what its significance is.
Posted by: 601
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July 5, 2009 8:39 PM
I think this is a great way to "teach the controversy" Dan Dennett style, I wish an American network would pick this up.
Will they use the scientific method to filter the "fake" atheists, or just pray for true non-believers?
If a really stupid contestant chose "my" religion via a TV game show, it could actually undermine my faith. Any level of objectification of religion weakens it, by the very definition of faith (aka fear + ignorance).
Posted by: lazlow | July 5, 2009 9:20 PM
Why not go on the show and bargain with the theologians for the best deal? Sure I'll convert, but you got to give something good in return. Like no Purgatory, 90 virgins without having to blow yourself up. Make it okay for me to eat pork and have sex before marriage. You just gotta make it worth my while to join you. You gotta meet me halfway.
Posted by: SEF | July 6, 2009 4:29 AM
A few days ago, in response to news reports* of a predatory and extreme islamist "converting" a young kid into babbling nonsense by rote, I came up with the idea that it would be good to recruit professional magicians to the light/good side of the force by having them use their similar and possibly superior powers of persuasion to "convert" people to something better (eg rationality and science) or at least mostly harmless (eg jedi-ism).
I was thinking then in terms of street magicians but stage magicians ought to lap up the Turkish challenge. They should be so much better at it, in their own natural arena, than the pretenders among the religious nutters are.
Derren Brown (who seems to have a large fan-base, although I don't really know of him in my own right) would seem to be an obvious choice. But perhaps you lot know of some other candidates who are very good at getting people to agree to whatever they say.
* spot the mad, staring eyes of the true-believer in that second picture.
Posted by: Jaecp | July 6, 2009 6:11 AM
I have nothing to do, where do I sign up?
Posted by: eddie | July 6, 2009 1:50 PM
Not as good my idea for a game show;
Celebrity Shark Bait
In which celebrities are flown to south africa and dangled from a boat while being cut with knives and...
You get the rest. The beauty of this is everyone wins. The celebs get to be bait, the sharks win and we win!