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We can hardly love someone who intentionally hurts us and keeps his reasons a secret unless for the most part we know his reasons for affecting us as he does and moreover know that they are benevolent.
Richard M. Gale, "Some Difficulties in Theistic Treatments of Evil" The Evidential Argument from Evil (ed. Daniel Howard-Snyder, Indianapolis, IN: Indiana University Press, 1996), p. 211.
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Category: Creationism
Posted on: July 24, 2009 2:56 PM, by PZ Myers
Did I say 101 atheists were going to the Creation "Museum" four days ago? The updated number is currently at 201, and the Secular Student Alliance is keeping registration open for a while, so you can still get in. This is going to be great — be sure to wear some kind of distinguishingly godless clothing, because I think we'll want a few photos of the place swamped with atheists.
Just the numbers alone are going to make this a great event. Join the mob!
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Comments
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 3:02 PM
Zerg is right. I hope everyone behaves themselves.
Bring suckers for the Creationist kiddies and for their parents for that matter. You can have a little joke about giving suckers to suckers, just keep it to your self.
Posted by: Obstreperous Anti-Theist | July 24, 2009 3:05 PM
I'm so envious of your group!
I'll just sit at home and lovingly stroke my darwin fish t-shirt.
Ok, no, that's creepy.
Have fun!!
Posted by: Berner | July 24, 2009 3:06 PM
Upgrade your speed and melee attack at the Spawning Pool for epic justice.
Posted by: Kobra | July 24, 2009 3:07 PM
You know at least one of them is going to be a creationist plant whose job is to shout ridiculous claims. We'll* call this hypothetical invader the "squeaking strawman" and laugh at his vain attempts.
* By "we" I mean "you guys," because I am unable to attend. :(
Posted by: Whitewizard | July 24, 2009 3:08 PM
So does that make the creationists the Colonial Marines or the Protoss? Probably the Marines, on account of their redneckery.
Posted by: Mixter | July 24, 2009 3:09 PM
Suh-weet! I can't wait to witness the spectacle!
Mixter
Posted by: Overlord | July 24, 2009 3:11 PM
@ #3
And if you get there early, burrow until the rest of us arrive so we can all swarm at the same time.
Posted by: Fizzygoo | July 24, 2009 3:13 PM
Soooo wish I could go. I hope there will me multiple videos taken from every conceivable angle (and even from the angles where the "geometry is wrong" caused by the heathen throng) and posted to youtubes and what nots.
Posted by: Deiloh
|
July 24, 2009 3:13 PM
And just how much of a haul is the museum getting from the atheists? Is there a discount rate for 201?
Have fun, take pictures.
Posted by: Berner | July 24, 2009 3:14 PM
@Whitewizard.
Of course they'd be the Terrans. The Protoss are benevolent and intelligent...except in the Aeon of Strife...and their Slavish devotion to the Khala...hmmmm...now I'm beginning to not know who they may be...
Posted by: inkadu | July 24, 2009 3:16 PM
Drat! No time to build more hives.
uckle uckle
Posted by: Mena | July 24, 2009 3:16 PM
Would it help if people wore this?
http://www.cafepress.com/treeoctopus.12609943
Posted by: Feynmaniac | July 24, 2009 3:17 PM
Holy crap! I didn't think there were 201 atheist in the US.
</sarcasm>
Can somebody post the picture of Ham's face when he sees a legion of atheists?
Posted by: TheDude | July 24, 2009 3:21 PM
@#13:
Picture as requested: http://tinyurl.com/6ouopy
Posted by: Jennifurret | July 24, 2009 3:22 PM
Holy crap. Does the Creation Museum realize that this is about to happen?
Posted by: Taz | July 24, 2009 3:23 PM
Have Mooney and Kirshenbaum started wringing their hands yet?
Posted by: Jennifurret | July 24, 2009 3:25 PM
By the way, I'll be wearing this shirt for the trip:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/stand_back_square_0.png
Not atheisty, but science + xkcd = win
Posted by: joe | July 24, 2009 3:25 PM
You need additional pylons!
That's great that you've got so many people. If I were anywhere near there I would definitely go with you all. Thankfully, though, I live 1200 miles away from that pinacle of ignorance.
OT: has anyone else had trouble signing in to typekey? I haven't been able to sign in since the site redesign.
Posted by: shamar
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July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
I hope that people shoot videos and put it online....I'm sooo jealous of those going.........please post videos for the lolz
Posted by: Leofwine
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July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
Have fun you Zerg.
Posted by: varlo | July 24, 2009 3:38 PM
Sorry I am so far away, but I would retch at the thought of paying their entry fee. Too bad you can't all pay with rubber checks.
Posted by: kev_s
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July 24, 2009 3:39 PM
I do some people are going to dress as Hitler, Stalin and Mao ... don't want to disappoint.
Posted by: Phil Ferguson | July 24, 2009 3:39 PM
if you register via the SSAWeb site it is only $10. hurry this group rate closes soon. if you feel dirty about going to the creation fun house you can make an equal or larger donation to the SSA. Even if you are not going you can still donate.
Phil Ferguson
SSA Board Member
Posted by: Taylor | July 24, 2009 3:41 PM
You promised me a picture. :)
Im so excited. 14 hours or driving is SOOOOOO worth it!
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 24, 2009 3:42 PM
You know this has got to be eating Ham up... you know deep down he wants to quash this "mass invasion", but he also is probably aware of just how poorly that will come across from a PR standpoint.
Rock ===} Ken Ham {=== Hard Place.
The thought makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Somebody had better damn well get this whole event on video.
Posted by: Beige | July 24, 2009 3:44 PM
Zerg Rush on the Creation Museum? Count me in. Kekekeke.
Posted by: BlueIndependent
|
July 24, 2009 3:46 PM
Zerg? ROFL I have never heard a SC term turned into an internetism. Zerg is right. Is PZ the all-seeing overlord? Is this blog the lair? Too bad the bad guys are Terrans. I always preferred playing the Terrans...
Give them a good Zerging!
Posted by: Spiv | July 24, 2009 3:46 PM
It seems to me you guys are doing your best to donate to this place. It's not like anyone here doesn't have a pretty good idea of the nonsense inside.
Posted by: Aono | July 24, 2009 3:48 PM
Offtopic link:
Thunderf00t VS Ray Comfort debate just went up on the tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2FskTKrx40
Posted by: Feynmaniac | July 24, 2009 3:48 PM
You need to get 300 atheists to stand up against Ken Ham's massive army. While he has quantity you have quality. When Ham's foot soldiers fail he'll sic his mechanical dinosaurs, all being ridden by a mechanical Jesus, after you.
Just replace Ben Stein with Ken Ham and this comic sums up what will happen.
THIS!IS!PHARYNGULA!!!!1!one!!!
Posted by: Lifer | July 24, 2009 3:49 PM
SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS!!!
Posted by: Taylor | July 24, 2009 3:51 PM
Does Ham knows we are coming? You think he will get a fundie blockade to make a human fence to keep us out? I have a sneaking suspicion.
Posted by: GMacs | July 24, 2009 3:52 PM
Holy crap! I didn't think there were 201 atheist in the US.
Can somebody post the picture of Ham's face when he sees a legion of atheists?
Ugh, that's not a legion. That's not even a cohort. That's just a couple centuries. Geez.
Posted by: andy | July 24, 2009 3:53 PM
obviously PZ is the Overmind.
Posted by: GMacs | July 24, 2009 3:55 PM
Italics fail @33.
Posted by: patches | July 24, 2009 3:57 PM
I don't really understand what this is going to accomplish. I find it unlikely that you will change the minds of the staff or the visitors. They will just thank you for their revenue.
Posted by: Travis | July 24, 2009 3:57 PM
I really look forward to hearing more about this visit when it happens. However I really hope everyone plays nice and no one gives them any fodder to complain.
At the same time I keep picturing this mob of atheists roaming the museum in a very tightly packed group devouring true believers.
Posted by: Infested Terran | July 24, 2009 4:00 PM
Live for the swarm!
Posted by: Rick | July 24, 2009 4:05 PM
Wish I could make it!!
Posted by: kodyfrog | July 24, 2009 4:06 PM
So, how much money are you guys going to be giving to support this travesty...horrible idea and everyone who goes is...helping to support the museum...
Posted by: Sili
|
July 24, 2009 4:06 PM
When I attended the IUCr meeting in Florence, Oxford Diffraction handed out bright orange T-shirts with the offer of winning a laptop. I've never seen the photos, but I believe it must have been pretty good publicity for them (they fscked up the draw, though).
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2009 4:06 PM
I'm sure it doesn't need to be said, but be nice, people! Don't want to give them an excuse to call you disruptive and get the cops out for a nice film clip on the evening news.
Posted by: Carlie | July 24, 2009 4:08 PM
At the same time I keep picturing this mob of atheists roaming the museum in a very tightly packed group devouring true believers.
Atheists are the Vashta Nerada?
Posted by: Donald Oats | July 24, 2009 4:09 PM
Oh, please someone take a dig-vid-cam and U-tube it! For posterity, and for your fellow travellers, the (unclean) unbelievers downunder.
Posted by: Jonathan | July 24, 2009 4:14 PM
@ #3
"Upgrade your speed and melee attack at the Spawning Pool for epic justice."
Nobody has seen evidence of adrenal gland evolution. You can't prove this is possible.
My Bible says nothing about StarCraft, so it can't have happened.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | July 24, 2009 4:17 PM
Given that a group rate has been obtained, the Museum of Ignorance obviously knows PZ & SSA are coming. I suspect they might even make a point of saying "welcome" in some special way. Despite being YECists, they aren't stupid (ie. not about everything), and possess a certain level of social smarts. So on our side: do behave. Whether or not this place deserves the name "museum", it is at the very least a public attraction, and other paying guests have the right to quiet and undisturbed enjoyment. Save the really loud raucous laughter for the parking lot, post-visit. (Which doesn't mean you can't ask the docents hard questions).
Posted by: Stan Pak | July 24, 2009 4:19 PM
I have checked the price of tickets: $22/person/day (http://creationmuseum.org/tickets/)
That means that Ken Ham will get 202 x $22 = $4444 from godless. I bet he will be much pleased to see them all! I regret I cannot come. Lectures with Ken are priceless. Please guys - make a video from the whole event and post it on youtube!
Posted by: Leigh | July 24, 2009 4:21 PM
LOL Last night, the local FOX News channel ran a story on the atheists coming to town to see what the museum is all about.
Posted by: Copache | July 24, 2009 4:21 PM
Just for the record, I sent a message out to 3300 members of my Facebook Atheism group about the Creation Museum trip.
Think that had anything to do with the boosted numbers? I'd sure like to think I 'helped'.
:D
Posted by: LinzeeBinzee | July 24, 2009 4:22 PM
What's the point?
I mean it'll be hilarious, but I doubt it'll do anything for the public perception of atheists. You'll be able to see all of their displays and debunk them but what would they have in the museum that we haven't seen all over creationist websites?
I suppose a picture of PZ on a saddle-wearing dinosaur would make it worthwhile, so just make sure that happens.
Posted by: rob | July 24, 2009 4:29 PM
Will this be like one of those creationist tours of real museums, where a lecturer critiques each exhibit for excluding their point of view?
(Except, of course, the atheists will be critiquing the creation exhibits for excluding basic science.)
Posted by: jj | July 24, 2009 4:41 PM
Note that the 201 signed up is through the SSA with a group rate of $10.Posted by: jj | July 24, 2009 4:45 PM
Also, those who wondering why - From the SSA page
Posted by: Sastra
|
July 24, 2009 4:49 PM
I suspect the creationists will have video cameras on hand, hoping for clips they can later use as propaganda. Someone laughing rudely near an elderly couple, or knocking heedlessly into a small child. If they pick you out special for an interview, it'll be a bad sign. If you don't know the answer, don't make one up.
Get rid of the gum, brush your hair, stand up straight, and mind your manners. And oh yeah -- no swastikas. They won't "get it."
Posted by: Ymir | July 24, 2009 4:49 PM
How can this possibly be a good idea?
You give the Creation Museum several thousand dollars to go in and see what you already know is garbage.
You give credibility and splendid propaganda material to the Creation Museum. If you behave civilly, Ken Ham can show how his museum is so great that even atheists and scientists make group pilgrimages to see it's splendor. If anyone behaves badly He can show that atheists are simply rude and immature.
You are certainly not going to convert any of the other attendees who are already confirmed believers or they wouldn't be there.
As for the person who posted that the would love to see Ken Hams face when you show up, I promise you he's already rubbing his greedy palms together.
Posted by: Pete Moulton | July 24, 2009 5:00 PM
Ham's gonna have to saddle up a few more dinosaurs to accommodate all of you. Hope the tack room's well-stocked!
Posted by: Notagod | July 24, 2009 5:02 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate that christian creationists don't care where they get their money (or sex), a lack of morals and ethics is just part of being a good christian.
Posted by: Rorschach | July 24, 2009 5:09 PM
Feynmaniac @ 13,
Probably will look similar to the face he made when he saw Bill Maher walk towards him with a mic in "Religulous".
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 24, 2009 5:17 PM
Ymir
I'm seeing alot of this.
Look, if you want to properly criticize something, logic dictates that you should probably experience it first-hand to do so. Many of us here spend a great deal of time poking fun at Ham's goofy museum, but how many of us have actually seen it? Yeah, we know the content farily well and know how silly it is, but to truly rip into its idiocy, it probably helps to see it in all its glory, up close and personal... and it removes the counter-argument of "how can you criticize a museum you've never been to" pretty effectively.
Secondly, having such a large contingent of rational, intelligent people there will likely spawn a few interesting question and answer sessions with not only the museum staff, but perhaps a few very young museum-goers who might not know anything other that what's being portrayed... who knows... maybe a few believers hear a few good questions to which there are no good answers and stop to think (it happens all the time)... so perhaps it would make no difference to the bulk of the people there, but if even one person is made to think about what they are seeing in a rational way, it's a win for our side and well worth the trip.
And I really don't want to hear the whole "you're just lining their pockets" argument... it's a drop in the bucket and won't significantly help or hurt the museum financially one way or the other.
Posted by: Stuart Van Onselen | July 24, 2009 5:19 PM
What's the point? What is this going to achieve?
Or maybe not every action needs to "achieve" something grand. Isn't it wortyh it just to have a little fun, have a polite snicker, and meet other non-believers from other parts of the country?
Plus, there's always the chance that an opportunity for major pwnage will present itself, one that unequivocally embarrasses the Fundies without reflecting badly on the heathens. I can't imagine what such an opportunity would look like, but you'll just have to think on your feet. Which should be easy, since, unlike Fundies, atheists tend to use their brains for more than just keeping their ears apart.
Posted by: theshortearedowl | July 24, 2009 5:22 PM
The creationists are clearly the Protoss - stuffy, intolerant and stuck on thousand-year-old rituals.
Posted by: GregV | July 24, 2009 5:25 PM
How is this a good idea?
1.) You will give $4,000+ to the Creation Museum. Who cares if this is a useful amount or not. It's $4,000+ more than before. Do we buy, en-masse, "financial" bibles, crosses, holy water, "blessed" oils, and other religious paraphernalia from TV evangelists to analyze? AFAIK, no.
2.) You will give them the opportunity to misappropriate the situation to their liking (atheists curious about the 'truth' in our museum, blah blah). These people are unscrupulous when it comes to taking things out of context and turning it into propaganda.
What does this accomplish?
1.) We know the museum is full of bunk -- without visiting it.
2.) We are well behaved (despite what they say about us). Is the plan to intimidate the Christians with a mob of "devil-worshiping" (oh, the irony) atheists?
3.) Do you think the museum will allow you to try and persuade visitors and staff that the place is bunk? Do you think the visitors and staff are even persuadable? I doubt both.
Posted by: MikeDaniels | July 24, 2009 5:27 PM
I'd love to go, but live too far away (west coast). Besides, I truly am torn about the idea of giving these people money.
However, getting as much information about exactly what is being taught is worthwhile.
Here's a photo tour I ran across long ago. I wish I could take credit for it . . . but no.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/
Posted by: Sauceress | July 24, 2009 5:38 PM
I suggest ya give all the little creationist kids big warm polite friendly smiles and watch their parents go into meltdown.
After all it's not the kids fault Mummy and Daddy lied that you're all baby-eating, puppy-murdering Satan spawn.
Will we see an eye patch or two? Kids love pirates.
Posted by: payasodelmar | July 24, 2009 5:43 PM
if even one person is made to think about what they are seeing in a rational way, it's a win for our side and well worth the trip.
human nature being what it is......with luck, maybe you'll run into a few rebellious early-teen types who already suspect their parents are full of it and will feel encouraged by a stack of intelligent adults who agree
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY..............
Posted by: alreadydead | July 24, 2009 5:44 PM
Pz callin in the zerg rush
comments section complete with requisite "SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS"
F*ckin awesome.
Posted by: jj | July 24, 2009 5:44 PM
@Yamir
(Emphasis mine)Please do not capitalize 'he' when referring to Ken Ham, he is not god.
Posted by: Hauntedchippy | July 24, 2009 5:47 PM
Call me a miserable cynic but how much money is this adventure going to raise for Ken Ham?
Posted by: Frank Lovell | July 24, 2009 5:49 PM
I am all a-tingle in anticipation, very much looking forward to participating in this event! As a Kentucky Old-Earth Evolutionist I have long resisted opportunities and invitations to visit the AiG "museum." But I missed Woodstock and have always regretted that, so I'm caving in, I simply cannot pass up PZ Does AiG!
Posted by: Walter Silveira | July 24, 2009 5:50 PM
Well usually I play Terran but if you INSIST on making awesome Starcraft references, I suppose I'll go along with it.
Posted by: Eric | July 24, 2009 5:54 PM
You people are not bright for giving those loons one penny of your hard earned money that will allows them just to publish more creationist propaganda.
Posted by: BlueIndependent
|
July 24, 2009 5:54 PM
"The creationists are clearly the Protoss - stuffy, intolerant and stuck on thousand-year-old rituals."
Yes but how do you explain creationists' (likely) agreement on the issue of owning and using guns? Ya know, like the trigger-happy stim-packed grunts unloading on non-Terrans?
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | July 24, 2009 6:00 PM
What the hell difference does "en masse" make? If this group decided to go one at a time on different days, the amount of money is the same. The point is, if you want to properly criticize something, you're better off doing so with first-hand knowledge. As an example, PZ himself owns several bibles, religious texts, and other written materials with which he disagrees... some of which he's actually paid for. It's a small sacrifice for adequate knowledge of that which you hope to refute.
Which can be easily refuted, and which no-one outside of the fundies would really believe anyhow. Big deal. Still don't see that as a reason for calling the effort worthless.
That's an awfully arrogant position to take, even if it's accurate, and one that is rightly open to criticism from the other side.
If that's what you believe the plan to be, then by all means, don't be a part of it. Not sure I've seen that broadcast as such by anyone who's actually going.
Your opinion. I disagree. I think there might well be a visitor or two that is persuadable. Don't be so rigid in your assessments. Remember, most of us here were "believers" at one time or another.
Posted by: bobxxxx | July 24, 2009 6:00 PM
Most of the cash to pay for those 201 tickets will go into Ken Ham's bank account.
Posted by: Happy Tentacles
|
July 24, 2009 6:02 PM
Us Brits can't get there, but we look forward to vicarious online enjoyment.
Posted by: Thomas | July 24, 2009 6:11 PM
I presume you are going to film this?
Posted by: jj | July 24, 2009 6:14 PM
OK, we've heard this over and over in this thread. Know thy enemy. The museum has plenty of money coming in, so $2000 (note, that the price is NOT $22, but $10 though SSA)isn't going to make or break the place. The point (or so it seems to me) is to go to a creationist meeting place, and let it be known that a large group of rational people *politely* disagree with what the museum teaches. Those attending will get the chance to see what this place is about, and form arguments based off of the museum itself, hopefully helping to discredit it (yeah we all know it's BS, but it will help enlighten others as they can use direct examples).Posted by: someone424 | July 24, 2009 6:15 PM
Zerg! Awesome verb. Have fun, it would have been amusing to come, but since there's an Atlantic ocean between here and you guys it's not so practical...
Posted by: Nominal Egg | July 24, 2009 6:17 PM
Hilarity is what makes it all worthwhile.Posted by: Ymir | July 24, 2009 6:21 PM
jj,
Thank you for pointing out my typo. By the way, it's Ymir, not Yamir
Posted by: bobxxxx | July 24, 2009 6:22 PM
I should read other comments before posting. I see the idea in my comment #74 was already pointed out quite a few times.
I hope the pro-science people going to this piece-of-shit "museum" remember to laugh at all the exhibits. I also hope they remember to point and laugh at the subhumans who actually believe Ken Ham's crap.
Being respectful of creationist stupidity is like respecting terrorism.
Ken Ham makes a living from abusing children and ruining their lives. He deserves contempt.
Posted by: Ymir | July 24, 2009 6:24 PM
jj,
Thank you for pointing out my typo.
By the way, it's Ymir, not Yamir
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
|
July 24, 2009 6:27 PM
Don't buy anything from the soda or food machines. The markup on that junk is several hundred percent. Bring your own munchies and drinks.
Posted by: jj | July 24, 2009 6:27 PM
Ymir,
Funny thing, I noticed I spelled that wrong the moment after I hit "Post", then tried to stop it. Reloaded and it was there. Lost all credibility with that one...
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 24, 2009 6:31 PM
@62:
read 59 and 60.
you know, the two posts shortly before your own.
Posted by: Gogo Yubari | July 24, 2009 6:31 PM
All this is going to accomplish is to make money for the creationist fucktards. I seriously don't get why reasonable people want to go to this museum and hand over cash to demonstrated liars.
We already know the museum is bunk. It's been adequately documented.
Stop giving money to people who lie to children.
Posted by: recovering catholic | July 24, 2009 6:32 PM
Here's a link to SSA's "Creation Museum Etiquette and Safety":
http://www.secularstudents.org/node/2622
Posted by: bobxxxx | July 24, 2009 6:43 PM
From the link in #87: The Creation Museum security team has firearms, dogs, and a governmentally-granted right to arrest disruptive patrons.
Firearms? Dogs?
I've been to many museums in my life, but never have I seen weapons or dogs in them.
I suppose since Ken Ham knows he's a compulsive liar, an abuser of children, and a world-class stupid fucking asshole, that's why he needs guns and dogs to defend his bullshit fake museum.
Posted by: Jules | July 24, 2009 6:46 PM
I wonder if a "counter invasion" is being staged, with fundies camping out the night before to be first in line, until the place is filled to capacity with fundies who were first in line and the fire marshall will not let any atheists in.
When the atheists do tour the museum, I hope they don't trash anything or upset the children that are there. It's all going to be on video and will give us all a bad name.
That being said, I look forward to the hilarity that ensues in the videos! Too bad I'm so far away and can't attend, I'd enjoy it.
Posted by: Nicol | July 24, 2009 6:48 PM
Perhaps there can be a sequel field trip to the Discovery Institute? That one I could help mob.
Posted by: Attila | July 24, 2009 6:52 PM
My recommendation for anyone going is to pay the karma donation to the SSA. I paid $10 for my ticket plus $10 to the SSA, which is getting a $10 match. So Ken "really I don't look like the missing link" Ham gets $2000 or so for a "museum" they invested $27 million in, a drop in the bucket. If we all put a equal karma donation, the SSA which probably has a tiny budget, gets $4000 which counts as a huge donation; and makes a difference.
Also what's the purpose of going to the "museum," it sounds like fun especially with 200+ atheists. Didn't you get the memo when you became an atheist that the universe and life doesn't have any other purpose than what we decide to make of it. So make it something fun and interesting. This is just some fun, maybe not with the loftiest of purposes, but those are not always required as long as you do something else good with your life.
Posted by: Gonzo | July 24, 2009 6:54 PM
$2000 (so far) to Ken Ham. Really, is it worth it?
He'll be the one laughing at the end of your visit. He knows you'll not change one closed mind there. He probably wishes you'll come back every day.
Posted by: ChrisKG | July 24, 2009 6:59 PM
Get the grill T-shirt! http://www.thearrogantatheist.com/mens.html
Enjoy the trip!
Chris
Posted by: Sauceress | July 24, 2009 7:05 PM
http://www.buffalobeast.com/117/let_there_be_retards.htm
Posted by: eddie | July 24, 2009 7:10 PM
There's a world of difference between being Protoss and just being a tosser.
Posted by: Fizzygoo | July 24, 2009 7:11 PM
@Everyone saying giving them money is bad.
But if, on the other hand, everyone going has the effect of driving not only the business but also the badness-thinking out of business then it would be but a small investment for a rich long term goal, yes? Which would not be bad. I'd even go so far as to say it's good.
So if 200+ atheists show up, asking questions, asking questions to the weird answers of their first questions, and people over hear it and it gets them thinking about the questions, and the weird answers, then it could spread like some nicely evolving species over a picturesque Kentucky landscape. Especially if the children hear the questions and answers.
And I agree with those that have said changing the mind of one person is worth it, like #65 said.
Posted by: eddie | July 24, 2009 7:13 PM
Karma?
You really haven't been paying attention, have you?
Posted by: Shawn S. | July 24, 2009 7:21 PM
Lesse... 101 x $19.95 = $2014.95 for the museum.
That 2014.05 divided by about a few million or so bucks annual profit is approximately bupkiss percentage profit to the museum.
Okay, I'm for it. :) Worth giving them the drop in the ocean. Although you gotta think of the old adage "any publicity is good publicity." Let's hope that works our way more than theirs.
Posted by: Federico Contreras | July 24, 2009 7:29 PM
You all have no idea how happy it makes me to see all of you immediately make witty starcraft banter =) Obviously the pharyngula audience is upscale, classy gamers.
Have a great weekend all I'm outta here!
(but I have to be at a the montreal dragon boat festival tomorrow at 6:00 AM! Argh!)
Posted by: Alison | July 24, 2009 7:29 PM
I can hardly wait to see the videos from this trip. . .
Posted by: FredNurke | July 24, 2009 7:32 PM
has there been any official reaction from them to this? Is there any chance that it will unexpectedly "close for repairs" on that day?
Posted by: Attila | July 24, 2009 7:44 PM
Eddie @ #97
For loose non-religious definitions of the word karma. Much like the carbon offset credit. This is the woo offset credit. There does that make you feel better?
Posted by: XD | July 24, 2009 7:46 PM
Watch out for agents provocateur.
Posted by: Enkidu
|
July 24, 2009 7:57 PM
That's just too far for me to travel . . . but here in Sunny San Diego, we have the original ICR museum. They sold it when the moved to Dallas, but it's still open under the management of the Life and Light Foundation.
http://www.lifeandlightfoundation.org/
If anyone else is up to it, my kids and I would love to be part of a godless horde here on the left coast!
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | July 24, 2009 8:08 PM
Why go & give them your money? As an example.
An amazing number of creotards really do think that evilutionists are immoral people who don't get married, commit to raising nice kids, and hold down responsible jobs.
I have heard cases where a fundie was absolutely amazed after meeting an admitted atheist to find out that the atheist was as normal as they were.
So,go & be a good example. For all of us.
Posted by: kamaka | July 24, 2009 8:31 PM
I'm with XD on this one.
"Oh, really, you're an atheist? Spit on the jeebus picture."
Ha ha ha!
Posted by: jellay
|
July 24, 2009 8:33 PM
Atheist zerg rush kekekekekekekeke
Pure win.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | July 24, 2009 8:41 PM
From John Scalzi's photo tour (see comment 63): "Honestly, it's a miracle that a mob of evolutionary biologists haven't come over the horizon bearing pitchforks and torches to burn this place down. "
Sounds like a plan...
Antway, check out the photo tour - the one major impression I am left with is how utterly boring the place is.
Posted by: BobH | July 24, 2009 8:48 PM
Wish I could be there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34243342@N06/3675846860/sizes/o/
Posted by: ChrisKG | July 24, 2009 8:59 PM
#109--That's just creepy.
Posted by: Rick Schauer | July 24, 2009 9:01 PM
Very cool, PZ. Wish I could go. Good luck and happy monkey to you and all the brilliant secular students attending.
Posted by: Ultralisk | July 24, 2009 9:16 PM
I will be there. Also:
YOU NEED MOAR VESPENE GAS.
Posted by: Gruesome Rob | July 24, 2009 9:18 PM
Hey PZ, found someone for you if you ever have a falling out with the trophy wife
She's at ~0:39 and ~1:35 in this video
I have no clue whether or not to consider that SFW. It's different. You have been warned.
Posted by: J-Ball | July 24, 2009 9:20 PM
>(Which doesn't mean you can't ask the docents hard questions).
Actually, ask the docents very hard questions. Lots of very hard very sincere questions. Get it all on video. Expose this "museum" for what it is.
I can think of nothing better than a bunch of well-behaved atheists attending a "museum" and asking the docents many detailed and well though out questions, and getting it all on video.
This is a definite opportunity. Don't blow it.
Posted by: Yellow Dog | July 24, 2009 9:23 PM
Just registered two more - one proud liberal atheist Kentuckian and one proud liberal atheist Missourian. You will know who we are by our drooling requests for PZ's autograph.
Posted by: BenW
|
July 24, 2009 9:23 PM
It is private property so they could keep you out for wearing shirts. Just saying.
Also, there is a pointless internet poll but I know those are fun to many here.
http://apps.facebook.com/realpolls/results/2abt677bk?_fb_q=1&__a=1&
Current results
Is the theory evolution or creationism correct?
Evolution
21,291 (50.2%)
I don't know
1,089 (2.6%)
Creationism
18,500 (43.6%)
Neither!
1,546 (3.6%)
Posted by: apoLOLgetics | July 24, 2009 9:33 PM
Oh, man. 101 Atheists should be a Disney movie. I can see Ham, trying to walk PZ through to museum, but PZ keeps running circles around him, and he trips over the leash and the puppies jump on his face. Or something.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 24, 2009 9:39 PM
Actually, ask the docents very hard questions. Lots of very hard very sincere questions.
the funny thing is, to most people the obvious questions to ask wouldn't be "hard" at all. These things are only hard for creationists to answer.
for shits and giggles, and for those not going on this trip, you can get a visual tour (there are lots of them, but I found this to be a good collection) here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/narcissism/sets/72157619892928838/detail/
especially note the "science is squiggly and god is sraight" signage.
fucking hilarious.
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 24, 2009 9:53 PM
Remember, those of you going and do not yet have transportation, to check http://www.rideshare.us/. There are a couple people who are offering rides, and I still have 6 spots open for the trip. Search PZ2Creation to sign up for rides.
Witty limericks will be returning shortly.
Posted by: atomjack | July 24, 2009 10:05 PM
By all means, pay the discounted price! Just think- ONE "convert" from xtianity would be worth it, in the long run. Think of how much money/time/effort a doubter might spend in a lifetime (with the obligatory rake-off to the main man, and I don't mean that imaginary playmate fellah) that ends up spent in a more moral atheist venue. Just showing up and acting like responsible citizens is going to do wonders for the atheist PR.
Posted by: SC, OM, Blogmistress | July 24, 2009 10:18 PM
OT (sorry):
Situation tense in Honduras. Just put up a new update on my blog.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | July 24, 2009 10:37 PM
I can't make it myself, but I hereby volunteer to pay the (SSA-group rate) admission for Chris Mooney, Sheril Kirshenbaum, and/or Matthew Nesbit to join in this outreach effort so that other participants may benefit from their advice and example(s).
Posted by: a lurker | July 24, 2009 10:40 PM
"I've been to many museums in my life, but never have I seen weapons or dogs in them."
I never seen living dogs at a museum besides dogs for the disabled.
But I have most definitely seen armed guards at museums. Indeed everyone reading this should be able to name at least one extremely obvious example as a shooting there made the news earlier this year. Large art museums are likely to have armed security even if it is not always obvious. I am trying to remember if the security people that I have seen at natural history museums were armed. I believe they were.
My local public library has an armed guard, an active duty police officer, when open as well. And the library is not even remotely in a high crime area. I personally think that the cop would better used walking around some neighborhood.
Posted by: Don Rowe | July 24, 2009 10:45 PM
LFM Ken Ham raid, need DPS.
Posted by: Ciaphas | July 24, 2009 11:19 PM
I'm assuming all the people wondering "what's the point?" never go to movies, never eat out, only use the internet for educational purposes and didn't get the zerg reference because they don't play computer games.
Sometimes "it'll be fun and I'm going to hang out with a bunch of cool people" is enough of a reason on its own.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 24, 2009 11:23 PM
I feel so ashamed that I know what that means
Posted by: Kevin Schreck | July 25, 2009 12:14 AM
I would TOTALLY go if the transportation to the "Museum" was already provided.
For those of you who are going, PLEASE DON'T MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF!! We nonreligious folks and science enthusiasts already have horrible and undeserved reputations. Let's not antagonize the situation by being maliciously rowdy or obnoxious. We don't need things ruined by he careless mistakes of a small minority.
Besides, I'm certain that kooky Creationist joint will supply plenty of entertainment on its own. Be the sincere straight men and women in this comedy routine, and let the Creationists make asses of themselves.
Posted by: Meno | July 25, 2009 12:14 AM
*click
SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS!
*click
NOT ENOUGH MINERALS
*click
*drone sound
*click
*wait
*click
*larva sound
*click
*overlord sound
*click
*larva sound
*click
*...
... wait, the Zerg have no cephalopod-esque units. Maybe a queen? Or a sunken colony...
Posted by: Rich Stage | July 25, 2009 12:26 AM
I'm specced Holy, but I'll steal your agro
Posted by: doo-dah man | July 25, 2009 1:07 AM
It's worth it because not only will there be amusing exhibits to gaze upon but also amusing creation-story-believing humans to gaze upon. It's two for the price of one and all in one convenient location.
Posted by: QT | July 25, 2009 1:18 AM
You must construct additional atheists!
Posted by: Jenny Ashford | July 25, 2009 1:26 AM
How could the Creationist "Museum" people not know this is happening? Are they going to be closed that day, just like Wally World in National Lampoon's Vacation? I can't wait to see the pictures of their flabbergasted faces when 201 filthy heathens descend upon their holy of holies.
I wish I could be there. I miss all the fun stuff, being way down here in sucky Florida. I had some good shirts to wear, too:
http://www.cafepress.com/gravecake.345932199
http://www.cafepress.com/gravecake.345932196
Posted by: Muzz | July 25, 2009 1:33 AM
Better yet, here he is at the start of this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVHAIHDRcg
Posted by: MadScientist | July 25, 2009 1:42 AM
See if you can make a deal with the devil - ring up and ask if they'll give you a shiny new iPod if you can drag 200 atheists along to see the biblical theme park. (See, I can avoid calling it a museum.)
Posted by: The Duck Man | July 25, 2009 1:46 AM
For the swarrmmm...
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 25, 2009 2:08 AM
I can't make it myself, but I hereby volunteer to pay the (SSA-group rate) admission for Chris Mooney, Sheril Kirshenbaum, and/or Matthew Nesbit to join in this outreach effort so that other participants may benefit from their advice and example(s).
you mean as comic relief?
Posted by: Monado, FCD | July 25, 2009 4:23 AM
Don't forget to make lots of comments about the creepyness of making someone else pay for your sins (a la primitive scapegoating magic) and the unfairness of getting a free ride by asking forgiveness instead of actually having to make amends to the people you harmed.
Don't you believe in God?
"No, I'm not superstitious."
"I outgrew him some time after Santa Claus."
"Which one?"
Posted by: latsot
|
July 25, 2009 5:02 AM
> do behave
Or don't. Whatever you want, really. Don't we have enough religious people telling us how to behave without atheists chiming in as well?
Personally, I hope everyone will just be themself.
Posted by: John M | July 25, 2009 6:17 AM
Does the "museum" have sales points inside. It would be a good plan to make sure these are effectively overloaded with "window shoppers" and the like. If all the tables in the cafeteria are taken by non-consumers, the internal revenue loss might balance some of the bad caused by paying entrance fees.
Posted by: Varangian | July 25, 2009 10:59 AM
Why not bring pamphlets with real facts on evolution, etc, and hand them out outside the "museum"? Juxtasposing known creationist canards against the facts - perhaps some faithheads will read it and start doubting the lies their pastors have fed them.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | July 25, 2009 11:45 AM
How could that happen? Remember, there are only about 900 cdesign proponentsists on teh whole wide intarwebz. I repeat: only about nine hundred cdesign proponentsists on teh whole wide intarwebz. We found that out in the first poll we pharyngulated.
Posted by: David G | July 25, 2009 12:13 PM
I'm sure you're all tired of hearing admonitions for good behavior but your hosts (apology for stating the pianfully obvious)have no cumpuction at being dishonest. I predict the museum will be closed for maintenance or some grievious act of vadalism will misteriously appear and you will be blamed. I hope not, but they're capable of it. Have a great time. I look forward to the reviews.
David G
Posted by: shyster | July 25, 2009 1:18 PM
PZ, wish i could be with you.
Is it possible to get 666 people to go? After all, that is your number you cracker snatcher.
Posted by: OrbitalMike
|
July 25, 2009 1:34 PM
Like I said earlier, my 11 year old can't wait to get there to teach the Creation Museum and Ken Ham!
Oh what fun this is going to be! See y'all there.
Posted by: co | July 25, 2009 2:07 PM
#143: They can't even agree on that number. If PZ can get 616 people to go, that may be sufficient :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast#616
Posted by: Notagod | July 25, 2009 3:29 PM
Do they have any cdesign proponentsists on display? I'd sure like to see me one of them christian fossils.
Posted by: AWAKEN MY CHILD | July 25, 2009 4:04 PM
Please, please, someone take a photo of the whole crowd of you at the entrance and photoshop it to look like this.
Posted by: Mystyk | July 25, 2009 4:09 PM
As others have pointed out, it is a "Zerg rush," since Zerg itself is a noun. The StarCraft term is a case-specific derivation of the "Tank rush" from Command & Conquer (or Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn for the purists) by Westwood Studios, from whom Blizzard borrowed the idea for Real-Time Strategy (RTS) gaming.
Posted by: chancelikely | July 25, 2009 11:35 PM
Mystyk #148:
"Zerg" is a verb too, like most English nouns.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | July 25, 2009 11:58 PM
You guys need a t-shirt.
"My brain survived the Creation Musuem, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt and and a feeling of being touched in a bad place."
Posted by: Ray Mills | July 26, 2009 1:53 AM
Click on my name to see the results of a skeptics trip to the ICR for a bit of research about what might be expected from the creeationist side of things, also talk origins has the handy dandy project quotemine so if you find yourself being responded to with mined quotes, you might want to have the full version available. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part2.html
Posted by: shyster | July 26, 2009 6:52 AM
#145, John the Revealator wrote in the King James Bible (in plain English I might add) the numbers 666 as the numbers of PZ. Any dispute of that is by you academic snobs. I will stick with the revealed word of jebus.
By the way, the Government Mule version of "John the Revealator" is the best.
Posted by: Mike Beede | July 27, 2009 9:57 AM
What makes us think
the museum won't be "closed for
emergency repairs" or something
when everyone shows up?
Sure, it would be slimey. Just a
thought.