…and this is a 
A short letter in this week's Science echoes a point I made in my last article: lying to students will not win them over to your cause. It's what will eventually lead to the defeat of creationism, which prompts them to lie ever more in order to drown out that damning evidence.
I was always a mediocre student, especially in high school. I never really knew what I wanted to do, and nothing seemed to excite me. This changed in my senior year, when a creationist visited my biology class.
On that fateful day, all the science students were herded into the school auditorium, where we listened to a long and richly illustrated lecture describing literal creationism. We were informed that in an effort to "balance" our education, we would soon hear an equally long lecture on evolution. This, like many things I heard that day, turned out to be false. The evolution lecture never materialized. Remarkably, I graduated from senior biology having learned only about creationism.
School had finally gotten my full attention. I wanted to know what we were missing, and why. For the first time in my life, I willingly (eagerly even) picked up my textbook and studiously read it. With growing interest, I realized that evolution made an awful lot of sense, and that I was being hoodwinked by my biology class.
It's hard to overestimate the appeal of rebelling against the system to a teenaged boy, and that day marked the beginning of my path to a career in evolutionary biology. We learned other things in science class that year, too--for example, that all actions have an opposite reaction. For at least one sulky teenager in the small town of Owen Sound, Ontario, it took a creationist to make him into an evolutionary biologist.
Keeling P (2009) Creationists Made Me Do It. Science 325(5943):945.
Education
Comments
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 21, 2009 1:54 PM
Very interesting letter. I think it shows that students know when they are being lied to, be it creationism, abstience only sex ed., etc., and they don't like it one bit. Which backfires at the end of the day.
Posted by: teammarty | August 21, 2009 1:55 PM
Right on. Too bad more people choose the close their eyes and buy into the lies.
Posted by: Alyson Miers | August 21, 2009 1:57 PM
Awesome.
It sort of leaves one to wonder, though: what exactly was this Biology class learning all senior-year long? The guy makes it sound like his entire Biology education was one lecture in the auditorium before he hit the books on his own time.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 21, 2009 2:00 PM
If my ninth-grade biology class is any indication, lots of memorizing would have been involved. Many lists, some of them even accurate.
(My ninth-grade biology teacher was primarily the basketball coach. Yeah.)
Posted by: Kassul | August 21, 2009 2:05 PM
Alyson Miers @ #3
Why, they were learning the names of the cranial nerves, what order they're in, and what systems they serve. Also some stuff about the kidney and how it uses salt gradients and such. Possibly the interaction of various hormones in people to produce the menstrual cycle(first X, then Y starts, which makes Z happen to...)
No joke -_- It's extremely depressing. These are all good things to know IMO, and they should be covered in bio classes, but facts like these shouldn't be the sole thing people are learning. Theories and whys would be nice as well...
Posted by: Glen Davidson | August 21, 2009 2:06 PM
I ended up rebelling against the censorship and lies, but I certainly know many fellow students who did not. But of course I was a science nerd, and I had to eventually be true to the evidence.
Seriously, far too many simply end up knowing nothing except that evolution is false, and we're just too complex or some such thing to be anything except "designed." For every person like the letter writer, you've got at least three or four who are the mindless trolls spouting canards and telling the open-minded that they need to be as open-minded as the people who have never touched a book on evolution.
Above all, they poison the well of science evidence, so that it took me a fair while to get past the "common designer" BS regarding homologies, to realize that homologies make no sense in creation (why make wings out of legs?). Creationists are stupid about science, IOW.
So yeah, that's all well and good, but most creationists fed nonsense from Sunday School through high school never get past the lies.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: D. C. Sessions | August 21, 2009 2:07 PM
Anatomy and taxonomy. Lots of both.
From the sound of it, there might have been some interesting amendments to both to account for things like orthodox science's misunderstanding of rabbits' digestive systems.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | August 21, 2009 2:09 PM
@PZ
It amazes me that we have these things pulled on students here in Canada, and it doesn't get talked about.
I was thrown out of a class in Trenton High School (a public school) in the 90s for not taking part in the "Lord's Prayer". I wish I'd realized at the time it wasn't just unethical for them to do so, but illegal as well.
In elementary school (Ellerslie Elementary, PEI) we were taking into an assembly and given bibles by the principle. Even at 10 years of age, I questioned the relevance of this. Mostly because I had already read all of the mythology section in the library, and they had somehow exempted Christian mythology from among the other books. It didn't make sense to me that they were bringing this book in and telling kids to read it and embrace god.
I'm glad my parents gave me a children's bible when I was between six and eight. It went right into the collection of Tanglewood Tales, and Norse Legends. It got read once. I think I read Tanglewood Tales, especially Cadmus and The Dragons Teeth, dozens of times.
I think that's a very effective measure for shielding a young mind from the evangelical brainwashers. Give them the mythos to read, alongside other mythos, and they'll see it for what it is at a very early age - just more reading material.
Posted by: bunnycatch3r | August 21, 2009 2:14 PM
In many ways your typical Biology class suffers the same fate as Mathematics when day after day it solves for X but never Y.
Posted by: Vosscat | August 21, 2009 2:21 PM
"(My ninth-grade biology teacher was primarily the basketball coach. Yeah.)" -Blake Stacey
...because we all know that anyone interested in athletics can't possibly know anything about biology.
Amiright!!!
Posted by: jc | August 21, 2009 2:21 PM
My 9th grade Biology teacher was also my 9th grade gym coach and later my drivers ed teacher. His attitude always seemed to be "let's just get this over with so I can go play football". Such a waste.
The class never mentioned evolution or creationism.
Posted by: Grant N | August 21, 2009 2:24 PM
Reminding me of comments by Carl Sagan in The Demon-Haunted World (1995), where he talks about the dwindling enthusiasm of students for science, or learning in general, because of 'nerd' stereotypes and how it is more cool to be stupid.
He laid out some very fundamental concepts to improve the acceptance of skeptical inquiry and science appreciation that the 'Dentine Duo' would be well advised to revisit.
If it takes rebellion, widespread or personal, to re-invigorate the vanguard of rational truth seekers, then damn the dogmatist's torpedoes, full learning ahead (deference to David Farragut 1801-1870).
And when I say 'damn', I mean keep up the good works of critical attacks PZ, Dawkins, Coyne, et al.
Posted by: Richard Harris | August 21, 2009 2:26 PM
Shit! This happened in Canada!
Posted by: Joffan | August 21, 2009 2:26 PM
It's' just blatant X-ism.Posted by: uberlieder | August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
At #10, the problem is not having a teacher who is also a sports coach. Its when they value sports more than their class. My AP us history teacher was also the baseball coach, and he frequently left class to go do baseball stuff, up to the week before the AP test. Back to the original post, this is why I am interested in Evolutionary Biology, because so many people are idiots about it. I want to learn about it so I can prove them wrong.
Posted by: Critical Rationalist | August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
Yes, this certainly does happen in Canada, even if it's not as systematic as it is in the US. My sister asked her high school biology teacher when they were going to learn about evolution. His response was "Evolution!? That's not biology!" I had the same teacher for a math class once, and quickly discovered that I was better at math than he was.
Posted by: mds | August 21, 2009 2:29 PM
The curriculum likely changed between when he passed through the system and I did, but this webpage covers pretty much what I remember of grade 11 biology. I didn't take OAC Biology (probably Grade 12 now) but according to the government's documents, the topics covered in Grade 12 would be: Metabolic Processes, Molecular Genetics, Homeostasis, Evolution, and Population Dynamics. This curriculum is different again from when I passed through the school system. I remember people talking about things like the Krebs cycle, though.
Posted by: HappyHead | August 21, 2009 2:33 PM
My highschool biology teacher had a PhD in Biology, firm control over the rest of the department, and an Irish accent so strong we constantly had to ask him to repeat things more slowly. Creationism was never mentioned at my school in any context except the "philosophy of science" class where we talked about why it was dumb. Now that I think about it, several of the science teachers at my highschool had degrees in Biology (including one of the physics/math teachers), so it's no wonder there was a bit of realism there.
Every time I see stories like this one, I'm reminded again that my highschool was awesome, and it could have been so much worse. In particular, my father turned down a transfer to Owen Sound when I was very young. Apparently that would have been _much_ worse.
Posted by: Bill | August 21, 2009 2:37 PM
“My ninth-grade biology teacher was primarily the basketball coach.”
Mine (10th grade) was the wrestling coach. 8-)
I have exactly three memories from this class:
- We dissected a frog.
- We dissected a starfish.
- We must have learned something about evolution (although I don’t remember what) because I do remember the teacher going on at some length about how what we were about to learn was “one way it could have happened.”
Maybe if it weren’t 47 years ago, I might remember more. 8-)
Posted by: Shaggy Maniac | August 21, 2009 2:38 PM
This letter tells a story similar to my own. I attended Lutheran schools through high school and also college. Evolution became my fascination precisely because it was either ignored, downplayed, or plainly denied by my biology (and other) instructors. That experience helped inspire me to continue in biology as a profession; it also helped me think critically about and eventually discard my religious baggage. So, yeah, thanks for the inspiration goes to my creationist instructors.
Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | August 21, 2009 2:47 PM
This story is similar to my experience. There was a biology teacher who made it his goal to ensure that students don't believe in evolution. During our GATE meetings he would play ID documentaries and rant about how sinful atheist, evolutionist, gays, and Muslims are. The sad part is that he became the most popular bio teacher at my school and convinced many student that ID is based on facts while evolution is not. What really boils my broccoli is that he was never reprimanded for it. Fortunately I had a Chem teacher and an Environmental science teacher who supported evolution as an actual science.
I shall foward this letter.
Posted by: IST | August 21, 2009 2:48 PM
Interesting anti-athletics bias in some of the above posts.. almost as if you actually think that it isn't possible to be a competent athlete/coach and actually enjoy (and properly teach) science as well.
Posted by: Rynaldo | August 21, 2009 2:49 PM
Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada has a population of about 22,000 - it has grown considerably since I remember it as a small northern town I visited about 30 years ago. It's not surprising that it doesn't make the news very often. I am puzzled that a creationist lecture was given at the high school there. It must be something new since there was never a hint of such nonsense in the science classes I took just over 20 years ago in southern Ontario. Evolution seemed to be a given - at least I wasn't aware of anyone questioning it. If "teaching the controversy" would really help foster some interest in science and exercise the skeptical muscles it might not be such a bad thing. Unfortunately, it is more likely to further spread unfounded myths and ignorance.
Posted by: Screechy Monkey | August 21, 2009 2:51 PM
I got a pretty poor introduction to biology, too. My Grade 9 biology consisted mostly of taxonomy (memorizing whether Order came above or below Class), and labs that consisted of looking at cells under a microscope and pretending that I saw something that looked remotely like the drawings in the textbook.
I think we spent about a week or two on evolution. No mention of creationism except I think in passing along with "spontaneous generation" and other obsolete theories.
Posted by: Joshua Zelinsky | August 21, 2009 2:52 PM
Unfortunately this sort of thing can work both ways a fair bit. If children perceive censorship of creationism they make react in a similar way. So when kids want to know why we don't teach creationism in schools they need a very good, detailed explanation of why we don't.
Posted by: Desnes Diev | August 21, 2009 2:53 PM
"It's hard to overestimate the appeal of rebelling against the system to a teenaged boy, and that day marked the beginning of my path to a career in evolutionary biology"
What if "the system" is sound (evolutionary) biology and that the students are exposed to creationists' carols? The appeal to rebellion will act in a similar manner.
It may be proposed that it is harder to rebel against evidences to follow blindly a path of lies than to rebel against lies in front of evidences, but it happens.
Desnes
Posted by: BlueIndependent | August 21, 2009 2:54 PM
Good story, and exactly what I want my future kids to do when they find themselves in a similar situation (hopefully they won't). This anecdote reminds me of a guy in on high school class that, during religion class (it was a Catholic high school), would often challenge something that teacher said. At the time I surely rolled my eyes thinking "oh it's so-and-so asking questions again", but in hindsight I should have as well. It would've made things more fun.
Posted by: Noadi | August 21, 2009 2:55 PM
What is it with schools having coaches as biology teachers? Same with my class and it was the single most useless science class I've ever taken. I learned absolutely nothing all year. It wasn't that he taught us creationism or other stuff that was wrong, he literally taught us nothing. It was "read x chapter form the text book then do this half dozen worksheets", little class instruction or discussion, no labs or disections, or really anything that useful. A few years after I took his class he finally got his wish to become the athletic director and a real teacher took over biology.
Now my 9th grade earth science teacher was also a coach and former olympic skier (that was pretty cool) but she knew what she was teaching and had a passion for it. She also knew how terrible the biology class was going to be and taught us evolution as part of covering geologic time.
I also had great chemistry and physics teachers so it's really sad that the area of science I enjoy the most I had the worst class ever in.
Posted by: formosus
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August 21, 2009 3:00 PM
Interestingly, creationism led to my atheism as well. I had never heard of it in high school, so a big shout out to the California Public School system. I don't remember how exactly I stumbled upon it, but i remember seeing one of extantdodo's videos on youtube. It was hilarious. I love logic and debate, so it was highly amusing to see "Dr" Kent Hovind ripped to shreds. There was a lot between me seeing creationism mocked and be becoming an atheist, but it was the bit that started me thinking about my own religious beliefs.
To quote someone i found on the web: "Some Christians think they're shooting the devil in the foot by denying evolution. The reality is that they're shooting Christianity in the head."
So thanks creationists for starting me on the path to reality!
Posted by: Newfie | August 21, 2009 3:01 PM
Owen Sound is the arsehole of the elephant.
http://tinyurl.com/nu8awc
Not relative, but interesting
Posted by: Shaun | August 21, 2009 3:02 PM
A sad disillusioned fool leaves the righteous path
Posted by: Dungheap the Ugly | August 21, 2009 3:06 PM
I like the picture that goes along with the letter.
Posted by: Shaun | August 21, 2009 3:10 PM
The Creation teacher can't have been trained at a reputable institution like Liberty or the Creation museum.
I'm sure if the evolutionist had had the courage to turn up and it had been someone of PZ's caliber, this person would have seen the mockery of intelligence that evolution is, and would have followed the correct path of creationism.
Posted by: Blondin | August 21, 2009 3:12 PM
I'd be curious to know which of the many Ontario school boards was involved. The public school board, the Catholic school board, the French public school board or the French Catholic school board?
Posted by: Geds | August 21, 2009 3:13 PM
The Creation teacher can't have been trained at a reputable institution like Liberty or the Creation museum.
Oh, you went to Hollywood Upstairs Biology School too?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 21, 2009 3:14 PM
"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."
Posted by: formosus
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August 21, 2009 3:18 PM
On the note of sports coaches as teachers, I have a few interesting stories about that. My US History teacher was also the basketball coach for our women's basketball team that regularly took state, and sometimes nationals. But he was also an excellent history teacher, and I doubt I'd know as much about US History today if I'd had someone else.
On the other hand, my Calculus BC teacher was also the cheerleading coach. And it was every bit as bad as you would assume. She said that she got a degree in engineering, and then discovered that she didn't like her job and became a teacher instead. She really had no business teaching second year calculus though. We routinely had to have students go up to the board and explain things for her. On the plus side, I learned how to teach things to myself. On the minus side, the previous Calc BC teacher was a MENSA member, who retired the year before I took the class.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 21, 2009 3:18 PM
That, ladies and Gentlemen is why Poe's law was created.
Posted by: JefFlyingV | August 21, 2009 3:18 PM
Shaun give it up. You can flog Jesus for another mile, but he isn't getting up for another trip.
Posted by: deang | August 21, 2009 3:21 PM
I was fortunate to have reasonably good biology teachers in high school and earlier, but I don't recall evolution being addressed in any extensive way, if at all. On the subject of coaches teaching subjects, in the schools I went to the coaches always seemed to gravitate toward teaching history. Talking about wars and battles seemed to appeal to them.
Posted by: lose_the_woo | August 21, 2009 3:22 PM
No conspiracy my ass!
Posted by: Michael | August 21, 2009 3:23 PM
Interesting what a small change in geography offers. I wonder if perhaps he was at a Catholic rather than a public school?
I went to school outside of Ottawa (Canada's capital), and although I remember them doing the Lord's Prayer after the national anthem on occasion I have no complaints about our Biology courses in grade 12 and 13 in the 1980's. At no point during my education do I recall any creationist teachings, or other religious aspects (other than that prayer) with the exception of debates in English class when we covered 'Inherit the wind' (I still recall with great fondness an essay read to class about an angel getting Mary pregnant along the lines of "What kind of excuse is that?! If I came home and said 'An angel made me pregnant'...")
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | August 21, 2009 3:24 PM
...where he discovers reason and freedom of thought, tosses aside a lifetime of having his thoughts formed for him, and finally exhales in wondrous joy, but feels nonetheless stupid for ever having confused "brainwashed" with "righteous".
I know, I know... it's a sweet story... lived it myself. Thanks for getting it started for us, I do so love telling it.
Posted by: Vosscat | August 21, 2009 3:27 PM
@28 Noadi said: "What is it with schools having coaches as biology teachers?"
My guess would be that many coaches obtain a Kinesiology (PE) degree which requires quite a bit of Biology (Anatomy, Physiology, Biomechanics, etc.) Many of them obtain Biology minors because so many classes overlap and it makes them more likely to get a job.
I do find it strange that you would imply that coaches shouldn't be teaching Biology, then you give an example of ex-olympian teacher/coach who you explained had a "passion" for it.
Based on the posts here, it would seem that teacher/coaches are similar to all other people in the world. Some are motivated and do a good job, and others are there to collect a paycheck. Go figure.
Posted by: truthspeaker | August 21, 2009 3:28 PM
You're inferring a bias that isn't in the comments. There is a common practice in many American public schools to hire coaches and then give them teaching jobs that they are unqualified for. One of my math teachers was also the basketball coach, but he was a teacher first and a coach second. He had an education that prepared him to teach math (and also science). He wasn't hired just to coach. The wrestling coach wasn't qualified to teach anything other than phys-ed - which he was good at and had a degree in.
The problem is when the teacher is a coach first and a teacher second. Maybe you grew up in a school district where the parents valued education highly and would never tolerate unqualified teachers. I did, but I know I was lucky and that many school districts are not like that.
Posted by: co | August 21, 2009 3:30 PM
I was lucky in high school -- my 9th grade biology teacher knew her stuff, was passionate for it, and passed it on to us.
She also got pregnant out of wedlock during that year. She came in one day, with a wry grin, and gave the class a nice 10 minute report of how *some* students' parents had complained to the administration about such ungawdly behavior, how such people need to keep their noses out of others' business, and how if she received other such complaints, there would be hell to pay (or something euphemistically close). Bravo! And thanks, Ms. Nelson.
Posted by: QrazyQat | August 21, 2009 3:33 PM
Yes, this certainly does happen in Canada, even if it's not as systematic as it is in the US.
As I understand it, teachers in Canada have more leeway than the states in what they teach, less control by school boards. Both good and bad, since it can happen but is, as you said, not as systematic. Bad for the kid who gets caught in the wrong place.
Posted by: IBY | August 21, 2009 3:33 PM
Thankfully, my AP bio teacher was good. She made evolution the forefront of her class. It is the first thing she taught when we started.
Posted by: AnneH
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August 21, 2009 3:33 PM
This is a bit of a hijack, but I've found another incident of theists openly lying to promote their religious agenda. To them, faith comes before objective reality.
In this case, the Vatican's goal is to make a saint of Pope Pius. So they deny any reasonable interpretation of history to make an outrageous claim:
Vatican claims that Britain and the US didn't do enough to save the Jews in WWII
and
Holocaust survivors denying that claim
The source the Vatican uses to support their claim is hardly unbiased - Morgenthau's 1948 diary. Morgenthau was the US Secretary of the Treasury during WWII. He devised a brutal post war plan that contained orders to liquidate entire classes of suspected Nazi war criminals upon simple identification, and to leave the German nation to 'stew in its own juice,' (that) were not formally implemented.
The Morgenthau Plan would have led to the death by starvation and pestilence of ten million Germans in the first two years after the war, in addition to the one million who had been killed in the saturation bombing and the three million killed in the enforced expulsion from Germany's eastern territories."
Roosevelt and Churchill rejected much of Morgenthau's plan, largely because it favored the Soviet Union's desire to control much of Europe. So, Morgenthau had a very large axe to grind against Britain and the US when he wrote his diary. His very clear bias means nothing to the Vatican. They are determined to make Pius a saint, and truth is meaningless when it obstructs that goal.
Posted by: Psi Wavefunction | August 21, 2009 3:34 PM
And only ~couple hour drive from where I used to live. I've been through the area before - didn't really strike as anything out of the ordinary, and 'ordinary' in Canada means fairly secular (well, except for Québec to some extent)
Never encountered creationism in school, but had that happened...results would've been 'interesting', to say the least. I got in enough trouble as is, mostly for 'insubordination'-type stuff. I didn't really acknowledge the authority of [most of] my teachers, and that didn't fly really well. Today, I don't acknowledge the absolute authority of the academic establishment either, but they handle it slightly better than the school system. Which is why my degree is so fucked up right now...oh...now I see...hmmm.
Interestingly, the incessant misinformed pecking on communism and my country of origin made me mildly sympathetic (but not supportive) of both. Probably the reason I failed to 'Americanise' despite having spent 9 years there was precisely that - being very Russian was my way of sticking it to them. Gotta love human nature!
(Gotta tell the author he's becoming famous on the blogosphere....lulz!)
-Psi-
Posted by: IST | August 21, 2009 3:36 PM
@truthspeaker>
Agreed... not something I'd even attempt to argue with. Some commenters above clearly had this in mind. Some clearly did not.So the parenthetical in #4 wasn't implying that the basketball coach had no business teachign science because he was the basketball coach? hmm... that's an interesting interpretation. I at no point suggested that the implication was in every comment, but if you're missing it in some of them you didn't bother to read them. Would you have felt better if I singled out Blake and left it at that?
Posted by: False Prophet
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August 21, 2009 3:36 PM
@Mike Wagner,
I concur. I read Bible stories alongside children's versions of other myths and legends--and alongside a stack of books on dinosaurs and astronomy--and I think that more than anything laid the foundation for my skepticism regarding religion.
And you're absolutely right this is still a problem in Canada. I live in Hamilton, a larger university city of various European and Latin American (and increasingly, Asian and Africa) ethnicities and diverse faiths, surrounded by a rural area of largely Dutch Reformed inhabitants. A few months ago, in a letter to the editor, an avowed secular humanist bemoaned that the "elegant theory of evolution" was not actually explicitly taught in Ontario high school science classes.
Now, I saw this as throwing down the gauntlet to the creationists in town, in typical passive-aggressive Canadian style. I myself did a similar thing almost 10 years ago when responding to a guest editorial promoting intelligent design. And of course, it worked. The creationist loons responded in force with the "just a theory" tack and their opponents were just as quick to respond (I'm fairly certain the local paper loves these print flame-wars, as they last weeks). But it did demonstrate to me just how prevalent creationism is in this country.
Posted by: DominEditrix | August 21, 2009 3:36 PM
My middle school biology teacher ['Miss XXX and proud of it!'] taught us that sex always resulted in STDs [and showed us pictures of syphilitic hearts to prove it], one drink would make you an alcoholic, and one "reefer" would make you a heroin addict. The gym teacher taught health and told us that men have one less rib than women, because, well, God took one from Adam. My high school bio teacher told us women 'weren't good at science, because they don't have logical brains' [this was the dark ages...] I might mention that I shared that class with Esther Dyson, among other intelligent women, all of whom received A's, much to the discomfort of the teacher. [Otherwise, the course was decent and presented evolution as a validated theory.] And my friend Michelle, who went to Catholic school, had to take a summer course at the secular high school in order to get into college, because Bleeding Heart didn't teach "an acceptable" biology course. Miche herself became a proponent of teaching "real" science - again, when you discover you've been lied to...
Posted by: bobxxxx | August 21, 2009 3:37 PM
"I was always a mediocre student, especially in high school."
This person was a mediocre student only because his teachers were incompetent idiots.
"Owen Sound, Ontario"
I didn't know Canada is as backward as Idiot America.
Posted by: numsix | August 21, 2009 3:40 PM
I went to a Catholic High school in Ontario 80-86, we learned biology and evolution all through high school science classes.
The Owen Sound story seems really weird to me.
As a side, since I live in Norther Ontario, Owen Sound is not really Northern Ontario (Look at a map), Even though our provincial government says it is, it is about 210km south of were the Southern Ontario "benefits" end. I am mainly talking about the road conditions and specialty health care access.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 21, 2009 3:40 PM
truthspeaker:
IST, in reference to the above:
Myself, in comment #4:
Merriam-Webster, under primarily:
Both senses are, in this case, applicable.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | August 21, 2009 3:41 PM
The "equal time for equal theories" element of the writer's anecdote reminds me of a segment that now-Senator Franken did on his radio show in December 2006, only a couple months before he went off the air permanently. He was doing the show live from some location, maybe in D.C., and it was a mock hour where the host (then show regular Joe Consason?) invited Al Franken (mock creationist) on to discuss creationism and its viability as a theory. Franken started giving his spiel and after a couple sentences that appeared to refer to the Judeo-Christian version of creation, began describing one of the Native American legends about the Earth resting on the back of a great turtle. Conason then jumps in and tries correcting Franken back to the Biblical version while the audience laughed. The skit was a great and cutting example of the absurdity of the creationist argument, and the claim that evolution is just a theory and that all sides deserve equal time.
I really miss having the opportunity to tune into Franken on a daily basis...
Posted by: IST | August 21, 2009 3:42 PM
Blake>
If I misinterpreted your original statement, I retract mine...
Posted by: Jeff S | August 21, 2009 3:43 PM
Its odd, I don't remember a thing from my high school biology course except we watched Gorillas in the Mist. Also, we went to the zoo I'm pretty sure.
It was a catholic school, but I never remember being taught anything other than evolution being correct, but I can't recall ever being taught evolution. I must have though because I had a vague idea of evolution and natural selection.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 21, 2009 3:43 PM
ScienceBlogs mangled the HTML formatting within the last quotation. That should've read, "<has now become primarily a residential town — S. P. B. Mais>"
(Hopefully this one will work.)
Posted by: Geds | August 21, 2009 3:44 PM
DominEdtrix @53: ['Miss XXX and proud of it!']
Your middle school biology teacher was a porn star? I know I would have been paying attention in class..
Posted by: Vosscat | August 21, 2009 3:45 PM
"The problem is when the teacher is a(n) "anything" first and a teacher second" --fixed!
Why limit it to coaches? Seems to me if you consider yourself a teacher and teaching isnt your top priority, then your doing it wrong.
Posted by: bobxxxx | August 21, 2009 3:47 PM
"Remarkably, I graduated from senior biology having learned only about creationism."
Remarkably, I graduated from high school (in 1967) without knowing what evolution was, and without ever hearing the word evolution until I was in my 20's. Nobody ever told me people developed from other animals. I used to like my high school biology teacher. Now I know she was incompetent and she should have been fired.
Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
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August 21, 2009 3:47 PM
Woohoo! Score! (Own goals are so much fun.)
I have no recollection what I was supposed to learn in 6th form bio. I only ever paid attention to maths, phys and chem. I used my music lessons for maths homework the first year. And history for chemistry homework (I don't recall when I did physics - Danish or English, presumably).
Everything I've learnt about evolution and biology (and biochemistry), I've picked up here.
Posted by: Pete | August 21, 2009 3:48 PM
I took high school biology in 1994 in an conservative section of CA. The biology teacher was a good teacher (and also an excellent track coach), who did a very good job teaching biology. That said, most of the course was just studying how the different systems worked, which could be interesting at times but ultimately didn't provide for a bigger picture. We did learn about evolution, I recall the picture that was used for the chapter in the textbook, but it wasn't stressed nor highlighted as a foundational concept of biology. As a conservative Christian at the time, I seemingly "learned" it and got an A but wasn't influenced in the slightest that any of it was true. I argued with the teacher over it (who firmly accepted it), and to this day the fact that I argued with this man who actually new about biology when I knew exactly butkis about anything shames me.
He is the moral though. Without evolution, biology was just one fact after another, occasionally interesting but ultimately dry. That is why I was much more drawn towards physics when I entered college. Now, after having seen the world through evolution, I find biology fascinating.
Posted by: ddr | August 21, 2009 3:48 PM
In 9th grade my Earth Science teacher was the football coach. One of his sons went on to be a quarterback in the NFL.
My 11th grade Advanced Biology teacher was the JV football coach and also coached several other sports. We mostly did self guided study and dissection that year.
They were both OK as teachers. But I think they were brought in as coaches and they just got stuck with whatever class no one else wanted to teach. They just got out the book and taught the lessons straight from there. Not much imagination or real burning desire to open up the minds of the students. But I think evolution was part of the instruction. This was back in the 70’s though and we were still riding the last of the big science wave from the 60’s.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 21, 2009 3:50 PM
IST (#58):
I could and probably should have been more explicit in my original remark (trying to maintain three conversations on different blogs while I should be doing something else entirely. . . bad idea). As it happens, I had a very good European History teacher who was also a coach — the important things really are priorities and qualifications.
Vosscat (#62):
Heavens! Your English teacher would be ashamed. The proper spelling, as everyone should know, is and always has been, "UR DOIN IT RONG."
Posted by: CelticLC | August 21, 2009 3:51 PM
Wow, I continue to be shocked at what students are being taught in schools with regard to Biology. I was lucky enough to have some excellent, if rather unconventional, biology teachers that led me to a career in science. Even though my school had a Christian foundation this was never brought into the class room (with the exception of religious studies when we looked at all religions). I believe creationism was mentioned for a couple of minutes and dismissed in one of the many classes we had on evolution.
Posted by: Eli | August 21, 2009 3:56 PM
Mike Wagner(#8)
I was also given the bible as a child.And I still remember the exact moment I realized that the god depicted at the bible is against the most basic features of the human nature. What did it for me was the story of Abraham and his son Isaac. When I read this part I imagined(I have a very vivid imagination)my father trying to sacrifice me - his child, the very thing he must love and protect - in the name of an abstract being to prove his faith. It was absurd. No one couldn't convince me that this thing is the proper thing to do.
I propose to give the children to read the bible at early age.This is the fastest way for them to acquire critical thinking.
Posted by: Vosscat | August 21, 2009 3:58 PM
@Blake Stacey
...and to think I was worried about my incorrect use of the word "your" instead of "you're". Only to find out I got the whole damn thing wrong!
Posted by: Laurie | August 21, 2009 4:01 PM
I have often thought that creationist propaganda would have the unintended effect of making a lot of people more interested in biology than they might be otherwise. As a humanities person, with little scientific background myself, I have found that to be the case.
I was extremely fortunate to attend schools with wonderful biology classes. In fifth grade, we watched a wonderful 12-part David Attenborough series that left me with the conviction that evolution makes obvious sense. (I realize that the intuitive sense that something is "obvious" is not the standard for judging science, but it makes it hard for me to understand why people believe the existence of a designer is so intuitively "obvious.") In high school, I had a wonderful full-year of biology in which evolution was covered in some detail. Maybe going to private school made a difference?
Posted by: AlanWCan | August 21, 2009 4:01 PM
And yet, I bet he understood your accent just fine. Funny that.Posted by: anja247
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August 21, 2009 4:02 PM
i had not even heard of darwin or evolution or genetis when i graduated high school with a straight science university entrance package. that was in south africa, over 30 years ago. some time later in a dutch university i started studying biology and a lecturer noticed the gaping hole in my knowledge and recommended i read dawkins' selfish gene. i was in such a state of excitement as i read through that book. everything suddenly made perfect sense... it was pure magic ;)
when you grow up in an authoritarian society where questioning is discouraged and regurgitating what you stomped into your head is rewarded, it's simple to look past the elephant in the room. till someone paints it a different colour. his elephant was also painted a different colour, and he woke up. a book, a stupid lecture, sometimes that's all it takes.
Posted by: Pacal | August 21, 2009 4:13 PM
Shaun
Yep keep your head firmly in the sand.
You obviously havn't been reading all the stuff posted here about the unbelievabily idiotic Creation "Museum".
Lets see any evidence of a world-wide flood that covered everything c. 2400 B.C.E.? The short answer is NO!
I just wonder about Sargon the Great establishing his empire within a century of the suppossed flood, esspecially with all the previous Sumerian history going back to before the supposed flood. Isn't is amazing that Noah and his children propagated so fast. Yeah like with a century after the flood they numbered millions. Whoa those wombs must have been manufacturing babies like screws! Noah's family must have been going at it day and night to reporduce like that!
As for mockery to intelligence that is what I think taking refuge in Goddidit is.
Oh a please explain how in the face of massive, overwhelming evidence saying the world is 6000 years old is not a piece of prize stick your head in the sand idiocy?
Posted by: Carlie | August 21, 2009 4:15 PM
I had a similar experience as the letter writer, but it was the disconnect between what the pastor was saying in church and what I was learning in my biology class.
By the way, just to provide a counterexample, I had an absolutely kick-ass biology experience in high school. We dissected just-killed frogs and kept their hearts going in Ringer solution while learning about electrical impulses and nerves, we inflated fetal pig lungs while learning about alveoli and respiration, we gave different types of hormone shots to baby chickens and watched how they developed differently. Of course, you can't do most of that these days, which maybe proves the point after all. (A room full of 11th graders with testosterone-filled syringes, yeah.)
Posted by: 'Tis Himself | August 21, 2009 4:22 PM
I had a good biology teacher in high school. We dissected worms, fish, and frogs and evolution was emphasized.
My Earth Science teacher was the football coach. We saw a lot of movies in Earth Science. Some of the movies even had some nodding acquaintance with science, but most were war movies. Sands of Iwo Jima and The Longest Day were two movies I remember seeing.
Posted by: JBlilie | August 21, 2009 4:27 PM
This made me think of my public high school biology class (singular, never took any at university -- not enough time and money for that) for the first time in many years.
I don't remember anything about evolution specifically. We did a lot of taxonomy, anatomy, food-chains, a little on genetics (this was in the 1970s), got to "play" with some cool dissecting, live animals like boa constrictors, fish, and ferrets (no invertebrates except insects). I remember enjoying it very much and finding it very easy. Definitely no hint of creationism. (My 18-year old went to the same HS and he had good science teachers: He learned mush more than I did. No crap in his classes.)
My favorite books as a child (from aboout age 5) were encyclopedia of animals. I had several, some extant, and they now belong to my five-year-old son. The first one (I still remember receiving it at Christmas as a 5-year-old!) has been loved almost to bits.
Looking back, it's odd that I never took formal classes in biology (or even majored in it at university)*; but I was studying it, on my own, by my own rather random personally-directed reading. I also was a serious student of the out of doors: collecting every living thing I could lay hands on. I had a truly impressive butterfly collection, now unfortunately long gone. It's been a life-long interest. I've always preferred to be outdoors more than indoors.
I'm pleased to say that my 5-year-old can identify more birds both by sight and call than any adult I know except myself and an ornithologist friend. He call tell you straight off the difference between vertebrates and invertebrates and what features define a mammal. He's in love will all types of sea creatures, especially sharks, whales, and the deep sea creatures with all the big teeth. But he knows and loves the invertebrates too, and he'll tell you right off, correctly, which are which.
I'm trying to remember what book or person told me about evolution. I can't remember. This indicates to me that I was more or less always aware of it. One of my earliest memories is visiting a large natural history museum and being electrified by it. I wanted to know about everything. I have and had as a child a driving curiosity. (So many books, so little time.) What really made the concept click, where I really learned it, was reading Dawkins' books and some of Carl Zimmer's books to a lesser extent (At the Water's Edge, Parasite Rex) and also Why We Get Sick (Nesse, Williams).
(* My HS advisors told me, "you're really good at math and science, you should go into engineering. My Dad was an engineer. So I did. I don't regret it. I am a bit pissed at the HS advisors though. What they should have told was: "You're smart, you can do anything you want. Go into medicine or law: lots of money and women there!" ;) )
Posted by: SC, OM | August 21, 2009 4:30 PM
Just want to chip in that in his younger years my father was a coach/science teacher and quite good at both. (Yes, he was probably an exception - just wanted to share.)
:)
Posted by: frodo | August 21, 2009 4:33 PM
I had a similar experience in Canada, grade 13 biology, when the science teacher had a lecture comparing creationism and evolution--to show how they could be compatible. Except, all I could notice was how inconsistent the creation record was. How could the stars and sun be created after light?
Posted by: Paul | August 21, 2009 4:40 PM
My freshman biology teacher was the football coach. The only non-freshmen in the class were the football players who needed bio to graduate, and rarely showed up to class. Taxonomy and other rote memorization was all we really did (scholarshipwise, there was plenty of watching random videos as mentioned by others). I think he was required to give the final test, though, and to report grades for all students. The final test had 100 questions, and it was graded as if there were 50. I got 200%.
Posted by: Ian | August 21, 2009 4:46 PM
Nice anecdote PZ. Are you saving the data for desert?
Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | August 21, 2009 4:49 PM
Which data would that be, Ian?
Posted by: Mobius | August 21, 2009 4:51 PM
To the student/evolutionary biologist...
Huzzah!!!
Posted by: Molecular Jake | August 21, 2009 5:03 PM
My highschool biology consisted of learning pages of boring facts while never learning the reasons and mechanisms behind those facts.
I wasn't exposed to evolution until my freshman year in college by a professor who would later become a great friend and mentor. Once I began to learn about evo-bio I became fascinated by it and changed my major from pre-pharm to evo-bio and went to grad school to get my PhD in cell and molecular biology. Thank Thor for good professors...
The only thing I remember about my high school biology class is that the teacher would ofter go on rants about companies injecting chickens with steroids to make the legs and breast unnaturally large, to which I would always ask "What's wrong with big breasts?" After that he would stutter for a second and start talking about the food chain...
Posted by: Pierre | August 21, 2009 5:05 PM
Psi @50:
From what I understand (or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part?), Québec is actually now the MOST secular province in Canada. Granted, it wasn't always like that, in the 40s and 50s it was a catholic stronghold. In the 60s it slowly changed, and since then public policies have been largely religion-neutral; some people complain about it, of course, but most Quebecers are OK with the way things are. One thing's for sure, the catholic church is having a hard time training new priests locally, they have to import them from other regions of the world to fill vacancies in rural communities.
Posted by: Insightful Ape | August 21, 2009 5:28 PM
Thanks for making my day, Shaun.
Hilarious!
Posted by: Caribou | August 21, 2009 5:28 PM
When speaking of Francis Collins again...I think that article on him at wikipedia is not particularly neutral.
Posted by: spondee | August 21, 2009 5:38 PM
Coach Hines was my US History teacher in high school. Sometimes, he and his athletes would salute each other by raising their arm in the air with an open palm at about 45 degrees, (ahem). I asked him once if he could only do that with his right arm. He said "I can do it with either, I'm amphibious." I laughed all the way to detention.
Side note: the only book we used for the entire year was Zinn's People's History of the United States.
Posted by: SC, OM | August 21, 2009 5:49 PM
And which desert?
Don't answer that. Frankly, I've had enough of these dry science lectures.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 5:54 PM
This reminds me of that time in school they trotted us into a presentation by a vegetarian activist (why?) and he lied to our faces about human physiology. Unlike many teenagers, I had no interest in vegetarianism after that.
--
re: the health care discussion yesterday
I was browsing Quackwatch and stumbled across some info from a CIGNA exec stating that the claims payout ratio at CIGNA was less than 90%. Life insurance != health insurance.
His statements (to Congress) are enlightening, I think: Wendell Potter on the Health Insurance Industry.
It's part of a new Quackwatch site: Insurance Reform Watch
Sadly, no-one will see this site because it isn't politically correct. Dems have that precious, precious health lobby money, and Reps want the precious, precious health lobby money back.
Posted by: MaxH
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August 21, 2009 5:55 PM
Absolutely brilliant! I got chills reading it... and then reading it aloud to my roommates. They loved it, too.
I was raised in Kentucky, and I got my fair share of creationist bull, too. And I found myself interested in evolution just like our letter's author.
I was into green energy more than into evolutionary biology, but the principle's the same... I sure didn't go into theology.
Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | August 21, 2009 5:57 PM
Ian said:
This is likely the same Ian Howell who was over on Hemant's blog
trollingstanding up for Higgie. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Higgie herself hiding behind an alias. (If Hemant has access to his comment database, he could always check.)Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | August 21, 2009 5:59 PM
... And somehow I comment on the wrong story...
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 5:59 PM
@5
Count me as one of those people turned off biology for that reason. Went into physics instead. "All biology is stamp-collecting"--sure is, without evolutionary theory. And I started high school in 1993. US bio textbooks are a joke.
Posted by: lordshipmayhem
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August 21, 2009 6:05 PM
My Grade Nine biology teacher was a total skank. He creeped out all the girls in the school. Today, he would have had his ass fired for sexual harassment and been investigated for potential child molestation, but back in the day the authorities believed that all teachers were always behaving decently unless proven otherwise.
We had twins show up in my biology class: cute and lissome, with waist-long honey-blond hair and a dress code that tended toward matching painted-on jeans. I'm sure I wasn't the only boy in the school having wonderful fantasies about them. He had the two girls sit right up at the front so he could keep his eye on them.
Most of the biology I "learned" in that class I absorbed by reading the textbooks and by haunting the Royal Ontario Museum.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 6:15 PM
@37
That's too bad. My Calculus II teacher was a former cheerleader, and she knew the material inside and out. A perfect math teacher. My only complaint is that she'd hold class either first thing in the morning or right after lunch, turn out the lights and put the projector on. Zzzzzzzz!
She died suddenly a few years ago. Huge loss for the district. She used to teach a practical math class (check book balancing, car loans, etc) and she said parents used to tell her it was the best class their child had ever had in school.
I DO have a coach story, however: I was briefly in sex ed with a coach. He seemed to dislike teaching and/or subject matter and every class hour consisted of reading chapter in silence and answering questions in the back. (Requests to use hour as general study hall were denied.) Fortunately I got my schedule changed and landed in the real sex ed teacher's class. It wasn't just sex ed--we covered alcohol abuse & DUI (her brother was killed by a drunk driver), also domestic abuse & mental health.
Posted by: bobxxxx | August 21, 2009 6:21 PM
Shaun wrote "The Creation teacher can't have been trained at a reputable institution like Liberty or the Creation museum."
Shaun is of course an uneducated moron. Unfortunately there are millions just like him in Idiot America.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 6:22 PM
@49 AnneH
This is disgusting. I'm not one of those Pius haters, but I believe he was a flawed human being. Calling him a saint--which is no less than implying he was chosen by God and could do no wrong once so chosen--is an affront to history. That they feel they have to rewrite history to support this interpretation is even worse. No doubt they will then promulgate this vile propaganda.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 6:26 PM
@51 IST
You sound like the guy who's deeply offended by the stereotype that cops like to hang around donut shops, while ignoring the fact that donut shops are open at 3AM and serve coffee ... hello.
Many people--including myself--have had bad experiences with coaches as teachers in high school. It's a common problem, and once you started picking some people explained why it's a problem. What's odd is that you're so sensitive about the subject.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 6:35 PM
@62
How can you ever really know what someone else is thinking?
I had HS teachers who had come from industry (in science classes). They weren't good teachers qua teachers (ie communicators) but they did good labs and really knew their stuff and could answer questions. My classmates and I busted our butts and felt that the effort was well worth it.
One of my worst HS teachers was great at education theory but was assigned to a class he was incompetent to teach (Honors 11th grade math--he usually taught English). I remember one of my classmates in tears because she was getting a failing grade after years of A's. I went to him once for help on a problem and he did it incorrectly, then stopped and scratched his head. A bitter ex-anything who actually knew probability and statistics would have been a much better choice than Mr. Education Degree and Can't Figure Out This Numbers Stuff.
Posted by: not a gator | August 21, 2009 6:39 PM
Same here, but guess what? Physics made me an atheist anyway.
Physics taught me not just how to solve a problem, but how to set it up and simplify so I *could solve a problem. That means getting rid of a lot of irrelevant information. Like silly god hypotheses.
Posted by: popeyemoon | August 21, 2009 7:17 PM
fresh air.
Posted by: James F | August 21, 2009 7:17 PM
Shaun #33 wrote:
Shaun's a Poe, right? I haven't been following so closely of late.
"If it's really true that the museum at Liberty University has dinosaur fossils which are labeled as being 3,000 years old, then that is an educational disgrace. It is debauching the whole idea of a university, and I would strongly encourage any members of Liberty University who may be here to leave and go to a proper univeristy."
-Richard Dawkins
"There are people who believe that dinosaurs and men lived together. That they roamed the Earth at the same time. There are museums that children go to, in which they build dioramas to show them this. And what this is, purely and simply, is a clinical psychotic reaction. They are crazy. They are stone...cold...f***...nuts. I can't be kind about this, because these people are watching The Flintstones as if it were a documentary."
-Lewis Black
Posted by: ChrisH
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August 21, 2009 8:05 PM
I didn't study biology past the age of 14, can't remember whether evolution was discussed in detail (I don't think that it was) but certainly there was no creationist nonsense on sale. The joys of a relatively sane British public education. I did piss our Religious Ed teacher off though, thanks to a Douglas Adams-esque sense of the ridiculous that I already had about religion at the time. Note: running out the whole 'Jesus nailed to a tree for telling people to be nice to each other*' gag doesn't always get you good marks. We had prayers & stuff at school, but state religion and all that.
The only blatant nonsense of this sort that I remember sitting through was a supposed research scientist turned evangelist who spoke at one of my (high school level) English classes. He can't have been particularly bright because he had no sensible response to some rather blunt rejections of the soul, afterlife, and divinity as the source of 'love'... Idiot. Great advertisement for dropping science for 'god' if you get served by a bunch of 17 year olds.
I suppose that I was lucky that religion in school was background noise more then anything.
* Yes yes, you can critique Christianity and point out that the concept of hell was only introduced in the NT but there's only so much sophisticated arguing that a theologically illiterate pre-teen can do.
Posted by: Suzanne | August 21, 2009 8:25 PM
@"Tis Himself (#76) --
Sands of Iwo Jima does have sand in it, at least. Same with The Longest Day. Lots of beach morphology in 'em!
Posted by: Ichthyic | August 21, 2009 8:44 PM
Shaun's a Poe, right? I haven't been following so closely of late.
Nope.
He's a disciple of Pastor Tom Estes, who couldn't handle being criticized by atheists, and so booted us all off of his blog.
Shaun comes here to remind us that pastor Tom saved his soul.
...if giving him brain damage in the process.
Posted by: MB | August 21, 2009 9:04 PM
Ontario actually has two secondary education systems that run side by side - a normal public school board, and a Catholic one. Both are funded by taxpayers (though you get to choose which one to fund).
I mention all of this for the irony. In the Catholic school system, I never received even a hint of creationism. A good solid grounding in evolutionary theory is what we were given.
Posted by: bcoppola | August 21, 2009 9:23 PM
Meanwhile in the UK, by way of Phil Plaitt at JREF, this story in the Guardian:
"Creationist exams comparable to international A-levels, says Naric
"ICCE teaches that Loch Ness monster disproves evolution and apartheid benefited South Africa
"Exams for which pupils are expected to believe that the Loch Ness monster disproves evolution have been deemed equivalent to international A-levels by a UK government agency."
Full story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/jul/31/creationist-exams-comparable-to-a-levels
The madness is spreading.
Posted by: ambulocetus | August 21, 2009 9:46 PM
We need to give every school a clone of this guy
http://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything.html
Posted by: nick bobick | August 21, 2009 9:59 PM
I don't think the Shaun who posted today is the same Shaun who is a TEstes disciple (perhaps the only one?) Look at the spelling and grammar: it is impossible that the badly under-educated Shaun W. could have improved his intelligence so much since yesterday.
As to JHS & HS biology: I remember dissecting planaria under a microscope, and dissecting minks (must have been cheaper than frogs at the time). We nasty-asses would wrap the naughty parts in paper towels and sneak them into our enemies' sandwiches or bowls of chili at lunch (tee-hee).
Earlier someone stated that reading not only bible sstories, but also myths and astronomy and dinosaur stories helped him develop a healthy scepticism: I argue that any reading (other than, or beyond, the bible) helps develop a sceptical attitude. It often appears that YECs refuse to read anything outside their very narrow (ray) comfort-zone which limits their ability to ideate beyond creationism.
Posted by: Coalcountry | August 21, 2009 10:31 PM
I teach several bio courses at a small college in eastern KY. We have a fair number of students who arrive on campus having sat through a 'biology' class in high school in which they did NOTHING. One student told me that his teacher actually stood up and spoke to them exactly twice during a given semester. Others have described 'chemistry' classes that were no more than a study hall (although apparently one teacher boiled water once to demonstrate vaporization).
I don't understand, in my naivete, how such things, of course with administrators fully aware, are permitted to persist.
Just frustrated with incompetent, lazy, AND fundamentalist educators.
Posted by: Mark Wisborg | August 21, 2009 10:39 PM
We have that crap pulled here in Canada too!!! (facepalm). I never got that here in Hamilton, thank Darwin. But we heard precious little about evolution in biology class, which was unfortunate.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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August 21, 2009 10:50 PM
Thinking back, I can't recall if evolution was taught in my high school biology class (a coach also taught it, but I think he knew his stuff) since that was 40+ years ago. Wouldn't have mattered, since I had discovered Asimov, and read The Genetic Code and Wellsprings of Life by then. They are still on my bookshelf.
Posted by: Alberta Terry | August 21, 2009 11:10 PM
I remember Grade 11 Bio (in Ontario), our teacher was this senile old guy who was pretty obviously just counting down the days to retirement. I remember before talking about evolution, he asked if anyone in the class did not believe in the theory of evolution. One girl put up her hand - she was a Jehovah's Witness. The teacher casually mentioned that evolution was accepted by pretty much the entire scientific community and that the only opposition to it was by a few fringe religious groups. I gained a bit of respect for him that day.
I'm glad that it didn't devolve into one of those Jack Chick-esque moments where he freaks out, tries to kick the kid out of the class, and then decides instead to keep her around to humiliate her.
Posted by: Sphere Coupler | August 21, 2009 11:21 PM
I remember back in a science class when I threatened to not return because the curriculum was so boring, he proceeded to ask me what interest *I* had (of course the answer was somewhat sarcastic but true) he told me to show up once a week and give a report on a current event in science then follow up till the end of the year for credit.
funny...I chose sub-atomic particle physics and I still love it many years later;?)
I don't remember ever learning evolution, it seems to have always just felt logical.
Physics/the reason I'm here. (t-shirt)
Posted by: anaxagoras | August 21, 2009 11:44 PM
Rock on, teenage rebellion! Wonderful how being a "sulky teenager" can lead to healthy skepticism.
What I wonder is, why does that not happen more? The rebellious teenager phenomenon has been around for generations, so why do kids have a propensity for distrusting or at least questioning what old farts tell them, but when it comes to religion that filter gets turned off and kids swallow it whole?
Posted by: John Marley | August 21, 2009 11:50 PM
Oh, it gets worse. I had an algebra class where the teacher was there because he was the football coach.
It seems that a large number of football players weren't passing algebra, and the school rules stated that any player with less than a 'C' average in any class had to be benched. When the school created a separate algebra class for the athletes, taught by the coach (who suddenly discovered that he had a teaching certificate in math), their grades improved dramatically.
How I ended up in that class is still a mystery to me, twenty-five years later.
Posted by: Michael Dowd | August 21, 2009 11:58 PM
Great letter indeed, PZ. Thanks for sharing it!
I agree that lying and other forms of being out of integrity will be the death of the creationism movement over time.
Let's hope it happens sooner rather than later. Thanks for all you're doing to help speed the process.
Posted by: No BS | August 22, 2009 12:03 AM
My best "teachers" in bio:
1) A mask and snorkel at the age of seven in the Mediterranean sea. Spent the summer bobbing in the water watching how everything fit together.
2) Thirty or so aquarium/terrariums in my room as a kid. My mother was a saint.
3) The discovery of "Grzimeks Animal Life Encyclopedia" in my school library.
4) A microscope given to me by one of my Aunts at age nine.
Posted by: Militant Agnostic | August 22, 2009 12:07 AM
Losing people like the author of this letter is not a great loss to fundamentalist Xtianity. If they remain in the fold they would probably ask awkward questions about why the pastor isn't following Jesus's teachings or going an reading the nasty parts of the bible like Leviticus. Rejecting evolution helps keep the church free of dangerous independent thinkers.
Posted by: Uerba | August 22, 2009 12:20 AM
This is (more or less) how my intrest in evolutionary biology started too! What are the chances?!
Hmm, what a strange world we live in...
Posted by: Jamie | August 22, 2009 12:24 AM
I remember hearing about Creationism once in high school, but like someone mentioned, seeing youtube videos of creationism preached and creationism debunked turned me from agnostic to atheist. Good going creationists ;]
Posted by: rjhoule | August 22, 2009 12:31 AM
@Newfie
I lived in S. Ontario for four years, and I've been to Owen Sound a few times. Plus I spent about 4 months in Meaford. This is the first time I have ever had anyone point out how S. Ontario looks like an elephant.
Cool.
BTW. I always thought Owen Sound was a very nice place to visit.
Posted by: Jamie | August 22, 2009 12:35 AM
And also, the first time I had an argument with a creationist was with my older half-sister, although I didn't realize she was a creationist at the time. She refused to believe that we were descended from apes. When we argued, she would talk over me and didn't seem to follow logic (after seeing these "debates" online, I realized this was typical of creationists). I was in high school and she was twice my age at the time, and it seemed unbelievable that someone could be so oblivious to observations of reality.
This was a minor factor in my choosing biology as my major in college.
Posted by: Anon the nonce | August 22, 2009 12:50 AM
Microcosm of the Creationism-Evolution clash: family dinner-time when I was six or seven (1970 or so), my older sister (who spent her first couple of school years among nuns) interjected into the adults' conversation touching on the age of the solar system, "But, but God created the world in seven days!" And my father (devout Catholic, adult convert from Creationism himself) laughed, not kindly, and mentioned the name of Darwin. I pricked up my ears, and while I don't recall any other details from that occasion, it was certainly part of the causal cascade (involving a lot of reading, and watching animals) leading to a career in evolutionary biology.
I think one of my (private but non-demoniational*) high school biology teachers may have been a creationist (he ran meetings of a group called 'Crusaders', and I went to a talk he gave one day claiming that the Church was perfectly justified in attempting to suppress the writings of Galileo; Giordano Bruno was not mentioned) but he would not have been allowed to teach it in class. Ran into a few Gish-gurgers at uni, which provoked me into learning more physics and geology, so the pattern repeats. I wouldn't go so far as to claim that if there were no creationists we'd have to invent them, but they're more of an active stimulus to learn science than 'Here's what people used to believe...'
(* I'm sure that's not what I typed - is my computer possessed? - but I like it)
Posted by: Evolution SWAT | August 22, 2009 1:33 AM
I had a similar experience. I grew up all concerned for creationism, then through my biology classes in college and my own personal research, I learned just how much evidence there was for evolution and I went on a mission to let the truth be known. Now that I feel that I was lied to, I am even more committed to spread the word...
Posted by: Queen Amigdala | August 22, 2009 2:06 AM
If I may, another personal story of the Ontario public school system: I graduated from high school in 1983, in a small town just north of Toronto. My biology teacher at the time was a Jehovah's witness, who refused to even admit that such a thing as a theory of evolution existed. My chemistry teacher was the pastor of my church, and he also felt quite free to proselytize in class. My physics teacher was furious with them both, and tried to cover at least the basics of evolutionary theory (may the rational expanding universe bless him). There was never a hint of any school official having any problem with this.
I don't miss my high school at all.
Posted by: River | August 22, 2009 2:11 AM
I want to share my story of 10th-grade biology, to show that not all "hopeless" regions of the US are so, and that some teachers inspire positively (rather than inciting academic rebellion).
In 10th grade I was a young-earth creationist, evangelical Protestant living in Salt Lake City. I attended a very large and affluent public high school. Coming into biology one day, our teacher told us that we were to be introduced to the concept of evolution. Instead of a slight dip in her voice and a wry smile accompanying, "This is what the State requires us to teach," her voice actually raised as she stated, with an edge in her voice, "Now, I know many of you may disagree with this but this is supported by evidence and is taught throughout every university in the nation." It was a simple statement, easily forgotten as we moved on, but she had made it clear there was to be no nonsense about the subject and that we were going to learn. And so we did.
Years later, I reflect on what she said, thinking of myself then. I was taken aback, but her tone and content left no room for argument. Leaving it at that, her statement cleared the air and allowed us to simply read and learn what was there, regardless of what we believed. I think now of that tiny, young teacher having the balls to tell us to grow up and open our minds, if ever so subtly.
I still think of her fondly. I also took chemistry from her, and witnessed many of the fantastic tricks you can perform with the right combination of chemicals. Though I have not thought of her for some time, I can attach a bit of my continued fascination with science to her efforts.
*re-lurks*
Posted by: anaxagoras | August 22, 2009 2:21 AM
The degree to which this country undervalues biology education is just depressing. My own father, who encouraged me to get into science, who got an engineering degree himself, who hasn't been a church goer in decades, actually said to me last year that he didn't think it was important for kids to learn about evolution in high school! My own father! I couldn't believe it. Not woo-addled, and still....
The public high school I went to was excellent, and in a liberal area, but biology was one big gaping hole. It was so bad it turned me off to biology for a long time. It was weird, because the other science classes were of a distinctly much higher quality.
Its like the xtian nutjobs have convinced many others who don't have a problem with evolution that its just not worth the argument. If so, its so short-sighted.
Posted by: Jason | August 22, 2009 2:39 AM
It saddens, but does not surprise me, that this kind of thing happened at one of the high schools in my town. There is a lot of religion here in Owen Sound, there is no escaping it. I have to deal with religious bullshit almost daily. And I dare not share my perspective, it often makes life difficult for me if I do. This is especially so for me because of my involvement in local politics. That's not to say that people don't know that I'm an atheist, it just means I just have to keep my mouth shut about it and accept the shit pouring from the mouths of the religious majority. However, at times I can't resist. It does make trouble for me, but at least I have some fun for a few minutes. :)
Posted by: ExOrganist | August 22, 2009 4:47 AM
#108 (UK A levels in Creationism) - yes, the BBC covered that a while back. Now I can't make a smug comment about the superiority of the British educational system :-(
I remember going through all of secondary school (ages 11 to 18 - not sure how this maps onto the US school system) never hearing anything about creationism (or any form of scepticism of evolution) and thinking of it only as some weird belief roughly on a par with Flat-Earthism which was only taken seriously by a few cranks. Then my parents (with whom I still lived while a computer science undergraduate at the local university) went through a period of church-hopping, moving from a relatively liberal church to a batshit-insane-fundy "fellowship group" who met in a village hall. I'd been an organist for the previous church and was pressed into service as pianist for the fundy group (I'd just about lost any faith I had by then, but kept going for a quiet home life). They were all creationists, and proud of it: one of their guest speakers actually uttered the line "I'm not related to a monkey, thank you very much!" to nods of approval. It was then that I realised that (a) there were "normal" British people who actually believed this stuff, and (b) that some of them were science teachers (indeed, another guest speaker who taught science at a local school called people who believed in evolution "gullible" whilst simultaneously extolling the virtue of unquestioning belief in the inerrancy of the Bible).
Fast forward ten years or so and we get A Level exam papers written by creationists who believe in the Loch Ness Monster. I know people keep saying standards are falling, but even so...
Posted by: HombreMoleculos | August 22, 2009 7:55 AM
When I first heard about natural selection in a high school science class, I was blown away. It seemed so obvious and made so much more sense than anything I'd heard up til then.
Posted by: KI | August 22, 2009 8:24 AM
Here's my coach-as-teacher story. 10th grade algebra, I was having trouble with some concept or other (forty years can cause memory fade) and the teacher wouldn't help me at all. "It's in the textbook" he said, over and over. "I don't get what they're saying here", I replied, over and over. After five minutes, he left the class to go "Attend to some track and field business" (his coaching duties).
The next day, the student next to me had a problem with something and the teacher spent twenty minutes with him until he understood the problem.
The difference between the students? I was a scrawny little punk (I had skipped two grades so I was smaller than everyone else) who hated gym and the jocks, Mr. Got-the-help-he-needed was a pole vaulter.
I still hate sports, and probably always will. Jocks suck. And please don't lecture me, my prejudice and bigotry are deeply ingrained in this matter.
Posted by: Daniel | August 22, 2009 9:19 AM
I'm going to be a senior in High School, and because of my sophomore year Creationist biology teacher, I'm taking A.P. Bio, and she made me do it. At the end of sophomore year, I actually did a powerpoint presentation on evolution, which the whole class loved, but the teacher didn't :p. I even showed the class part of my fossil collection, which included transitional forms of Great White shark teeth, evolving from a Mako in the Great White. I'm actually still on amicable terms with her. Although, I want to become a vertebrate paleontologist, she believes that all fossils are fake and that dinosaurs never existed. *facepalm*
Well the saying is true, and a creationist is what made me want to pursue an actual career in science and actually drove me to learn more about biology and evolution. Can't wait for A.P. Bio :D
Posted by: IST | August 22, 2009 12:45 PM
not a gator>
Sensitive? Did I post a whining diatribe?
My issue is with gross generlaztions that are supported by nothing better than anecdote. I've had teachers that were coaches as well, some of them weren't all that great at either job, the worst being a history teacher. I've also had and worked with teachers who are coaches, and pretty damn good teachers to boot, while coming close to or winning state championships. See KI's post if you want an example of what it is I was attempting to make the posters think about... S/He is aware of his prejudice, which is fine, while others may not be. They also may simply not be prejudiced about the subject... Plug any other adjective into some of the above comments (try one regarding race or gender), and you'll see the error present in making them.
If you're digging for a more personal reason... I'm a former all-american rugby player who also happens to teach science and be working toward a PhD in Bio Ed, so the dumb jock stereotype is a bit annoying, to say the least.
Posted by: arachnophilia | August 22, 2009 12:49 PM
"teach the controversy." yeah, they don't really wanna do that, do they?
because when it turns out that there is no controversy and they're all a bunch of a liars and charlatans, and their case is pretty objectively wrong on just about any claim it makes, well... they won't have won much. they're just trying to get in the door. the next step is pushing evolution out. they don't really want a debate they know they'll lose.
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | August 22, 2009 12:50 PM
I was the Hermoine Granger of my high school (Mississauga, Ont). I was very good in science but had no passion for it. (Physics was all formulas and pictures of cannons firing.)
I took a humanities course at York U. that examined the formation of scientific theories. Using astronomy as the example, we traced how Copernicus' heliocentric model replaced Ptolemy's earth-centered model, but only after Newton had solved the intractable problem of what makes the planets orbit.
WOW! For the first time I realized that theories had explanatory power that pure observation did not, and that scientists came up with theories to pull observation into a co-coherent meaning.
A letter to the editor a few years ago was outraged that someone said Newton created a theory. Why, Newton uncovered God's Laws; he didn't write theories!! He didn't understand that gravity is a fact; but "The Universal Theory of Gravitation" is a theory that explains how gravity makes the planets orbit.
Many of our creotard friends are not anti-science - they love science; they like its benefits; they want their beliefs to be science.
But their understanding of what science is is stuck in the 18th century. Collections of facts without the underlying unity and coherence that a theory provides.
(Aside: while I have been in the Southern US for 14 years, I have family in North Bay, the elephant's asshole (Owen Sound), Orangeville and TO. I tell people I'm from the North.....waaayyyy North.
Posted by: Chris P | August 22, 2009 4:00 PM
Pastor Tom has opened the doors to non-swearing atheists again. Either because his numbers were down or, as he said, he got fed up with checking all the posts before hand.
Perhaps he forgot that if you allowed people to post but reviewed them they could write what they wanted because Tom would read them anyway. Unintended consequences!
Chris P
Posted by: david. | August 24, 2009 6:04 AM
yes, as a matter of fact.
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