…and this is a 
Cool, I'll accept the title. One of the reporters who joined us in Kentucky has a nice article on the Creation "Museum" trip in the Star Tribune. One thing I appreciate about it is that he actually quotes us on the scientific flaws in the exhibits.
There is a very silly quote from Ken Ham, of course.
"Our own, full-time Ph.D. scientists and many other scientists who work in the secular world provided the research for the museum scripts," replied Ham. "This man is obviously very angry at God and relishes in mocking Christianity -- spending a lot of his time fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists!"
No, repeating a lie does not make it true. There is no research backing up the "museum" — there is ideology and religion and a crack team of highly educated crackpots.
And he repeats his desperate ad hominem — yes, I'm an atheist, and yes, I dislike religion. So? That has nothing to do with the validity of those ghastly ignorant exhibits.
Comments
Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | August 15, 2009 2:20 PM
Once again Ken Ham fails to tell us what these so called research were and provide us with evidence.
No, repeating a lie does not make it true.
Apparently, Ham is banking that it will. Unfortunately, it means plunging our public into utter ignorance over fundy mythology.
Posted by: JD | August 15, 2009 2:21 PM
Stop being so angry with metaphysical primates. They love us from their lofty place in space and watch us while we masturbate.
Posted by: JD | August 15, 2009 2:25 PM
You should tell Ken to stop being so angry at Mithras and allow *his* presence to take full reign at the museum.
Ken seems awfully angry at the great Mithras that he so vehemently denies.
Posted by: Tilsim | August 15, 2009 2:29 PM
I was struck by 'the nonprofit organization Answers in Genesis'
Posted by: matt | August 15, 2009 2:30 PM
many other scientists or many religionists
ham is still a nerd ball
Posted by: Jonathan Rothwell | August 15, 2009 2:31 PM
and yet they have still failed to explain why there are PYGMIES + DWARFS.
Posted by: FishyFred | August 15, 2009 2:31 PM
A New York Times article in June featured a group of paleontologists who toured the facility and said the exhibits misrepresented and ridiculed them and their work.
I didn't see this article! Anyone have a link?
Posted by: Christophe Thill | August 15, 2009 2:33 PM
"spending a lot of his time fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists!"
Next time he (or a similar person) says this, can someone please ask them why they do the same thing with Harry Potter?
Posted by: Noah The Duke | August 15, 2009 2:36 PM
#7: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/science/30muse.html
Also, I work at a sandwich shop up in Cincinnati, and I totally served some of those guys that weekend. They were all really nice, and we had a good laugh about the museum. Then I pointed them to the best bars. :-D
Noah
Posted by: Raven | August 15, 2009 2:36 PM
The "atheists are just angry at God" meme needs to be put to death. It apparently comes from Christians who can't comprehend why people might believe differently from themselves other than out of anger or self-delusion. Pot, meet kettle.
Posted by: Zeno | August 15, 2009 2:37 PM
Come on, PZ, you just don't understand the use of the term "research" as employed by Ken Ham. Haven't you heard of "research papers", like students get assigned to do in high school and college? You look stuff up in Wikipedia, you scroll down to the end to see the titles of the books in the references (which you copy for your bibliography), and you hand it in. Research! That's what Ken Ham's crack troops of high-class scientists (some of whom hold unused PhDs!) did.
All explained now.
Posted by: MichelP | August 15, 2009 2:38 PM
Another slice of Ham!
Making up stuff is like putty for the brain. It increases density and adds no functionality.
So now he's trying to pollute the National Education Association? He's planning to show brain-porn to kids? That guy must be on a mission from god!
Posted by: Josh
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August 15, 2009 2:39 PM
Are Ken's little PhD holders actually doing research in their respective fields? Are they doing science? If not, then I would argue that they are, at best, former scientists. Possessing a degree does not a scientist make.
Posted by: SEF | August 15, 2009 2:39 PM
Are you sure you're not an angel with a flaming sword who's guarding the entrance to the Eden of scientific credibility to prevent the unrighteous from ever entering? ;-)
Posted by: Larissa | August 15, 2009 2:41 PM
"This man is obviously very angry at God and relishes in mocking Christianity -- spending a lot of his time fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists!"
Typical theist claim, they don't understand what "don't believe" means, so if someone says so, they think it's only anger (like a child's), not disbelief itself.
Posted by: Desert Son, OM
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August 15, 2009 2:42 PM
Added bonus: it also means you're +2 vs. regenerating creatures, +3 vs. cold-using, inflammable, or avian creatures, and +4 vs. undead, baby!
No kings,
Robert
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 15, 2009 2:43 PM
How can you be angry at a mass hallucination? I'm angry at some of its followers, especially the ones like Ham who would replace reality with 2,500 year old myths, but angry at a fictitious character? It's like being angry at Sauron or Freddy Krueger
Posted by: Heidi | August 15, 2009 2:43 PM
Aw, man. They didn't mention the floating logs. That's my favorite part.
Posted by: ockham | August 15, 2009 2:46 PM
the 'featured comment' beautifully highlighted at the StarTribune.com site reads "Ken Ham = Typical Retarded Christian". ha!
Posted by: maddogdelta | August 15, 2009 2:48 PM
@Hamsandwich
The truth is now out, PZ. So it's confession time. Who else are you mad at?
Santa Claus?
The Easter Bunny?
That Leprechaun who gave you the evil eye?
Harvey the Pooka?
Me, I hate them all.
Posted by: Asclepias | August 15, 2009 2:48 PM
Firebrand is completely accurate, a lovely word, and a very apt description! It's interesting that these guys seem completely incapable of realizing that 'atheist' means 'one who does not believe in any god.' Therefore, PZ isn't angry at God; he's angry at the people who keep trying to portray atheists and scientists as morons with no way to back up their claims. (OTOH, 'evolutionists seem to think we have the YECs pegged--maybe because they are ;positive there is only one simple answer for everything.)
Posted by: Christophe Thill | August 15, 2009 2:57 PM
By the way...
I'm not a scientist myself (and certainly not a creationist one) but I can still call BS on the "Museum"'s panel about Voltaire I already wrote about.
Which one ?
The one that says:
"In the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, the infidel philosopher Voltaire forecast that within a century no Bibles will be left on earth. But fifty years after he died, the Geneva Bible Society took over his house and printing press to produce thousands of Bibles."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-dxg8gReUqE/SoDCkMgLPgI/AAAAAAAAAS8/4dF05X1WVEY/s1600-h/HPIM2661.JPG
So far what I could firmly establish is what follows :
- The Geneva Bible Society never took over a house that had belonged to Voltaire.
- A house where Voltaire had lived in Paris (47 rue de Clichy) was used by the British and Foreign Bible Society as their Parisian office.
- It was set up in 1853, 75 years after Voltaire's death (1778), not 50.
Now the stuff I'm almost sure of, but that still needs to be confirmed:
- the BFBS didn't have a printing press at that address
- Voltaire never had his own printing press
- when he died, he hadn't been living in this house for at least 20 years.
Now, I wonder which PhD historian Ken Ham commissioned to write that text... ?
Posted by: overburden | August 15, 2009 2:58 PM
I'm an atheist and I'm angry at God... for making me an atheist.
Posted by: Rey Fox | August 15, 2009 2:59 PM
I'm so sick of these Christians, and their anger at the Big Bang. I sure wish they'd get over this silly phase and not be angry at matter anymore. Matter loves them! If they'd just accept matter into their hearts...
"This man is obviously very angry at God and relishes in mocking Christianity -- spending a lot of his time fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists!"
Can these people really be that deep in denial? (don't answer that) It ain't God, Kennie, it's YOU. YOU'RE the idiot.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | August 15, 2009 3:02 PM
I've always included you in the list of "firebrand skeptics" who inspired me, PZ. Passion scores a lot of points with me, so I do my best to emulate.
Hmm... Would Adobe Photoshopping PZ's face onto the main character of Gargoyle's Quest and Demon's Crest be too obscure a reference? His name's Firebrand, after all.
Posted by: Roel | August 15, 2009 3:11 PM
And this man must think that contradictions are valid arguments (well, they must be, if he is taking the bible literally).Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | August 15, 2009 3:16 PM
@ Maddogdelta #20
At least the Easter Bunny has never asked us to alter facts and education and go into crusades or jihads.
They use that "angery at God" line as if it has some type of merit. It's so laughable.
Posted by: raven | August 15, 2009 3:19 PM
It isn't god or the easter bunny that we are fighting against. They may or may not exist and they may be really nice invisible entities for all we know.
It is the self identified followers like Ham and the death cultists who purport to speak in his name and would destroy our society if they could.
Ham is like all fundies. He isn't trying to sound intelligent or tell the truth. Just babbling gibberish to the faithful.
Posted by: detrius | August 15, 2009 3:34 PM
Once again, Ken Ham thinks he's God.
Or that his silly cult represents all of Christianity.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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August 15, 2009 3:44 PM
Ken Ham is angry at evolution. Why does he spend so much time fighting it if he doesn't believe in it?
Pico-brained git.
I suspect most Christians think everyone must believe in god. After all, god wouldn't let anyone not believe in him. Plus, it allows them to continue to believe that atheists choose to disbelieve, rather than not being able to force themselves to believe. Then it's our fault, and we really are evil for rejecting god.
I guess that just goes to show his intellectual depth is not suitable for wading, let alone diving.
Posted by: IST | August 15, 2009 3:45 PM
If the piglet rapist's PhD employees are scientists, then ordination by the Universal Life Church makes one a theologian.
Posted by: Hank Fox | August 15, 2009 3:48 PM
I tried to visit that site, and TWO large Flash banner ads popped up to cover the text of the article. I couldn't get both of them to close so I could read it. I finally reloaded the page, and got through them. Annoying. But it's a good article, once you're able to read it.
Posted by: Tim H | August 15, 2009 3:48 PM
Ken, you don't get it. Being a scientist isn't about having letters after your name. It's about being dedicated to the scientific process. Just because someone proved that they COULD do science to get a degree doesn't insure that EVERYTHING else, or even ANYTHING else, they do is science.
"...work in the secular world..." What kind of work, Ken? Burger-flipping?
Posted by: detrius | August 15, 2009 3:53 PM
Hmm... this scene from "Inherit the Wind" reminds me of somebody...
Drummond: How do you know that God didn't spake to Charles Darwin?
Brady: I know because God tells me to oppose the evil teachings of that man!
Drummond: Oh, God speaks to you?
Brady: Yes!
Drummond: He tells you what is right and wrong?
Brady: Yes!
Drummond: And you act accordingly?!
Brady: Yes!!
Drummond: So, you, Matthew Harrison Brady, through oratory or legislature or whatever, you pass on God's orders to the rest of the world! Well, meet the Prophet from Nebraska! Is that the way of things?! Is that the way of things?! God tells Brady what is good! To be against Brady is to be against God!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtNdYsoool
Posted by: gigi | August 15, 2009 3:54 PM
@ Raven #10
Unfortunately, the "atheists are just angry at God" argument is the simplest explanation for the godbots… and they like ‘um simple. But I’m in total agreement; it needs to be put to the flames. Perhaps our Faithless “Firebrand” Leader can lend a piece of wood.
@ Christophe Thill #22
I’m curious: In what context was the Voltaire panel used? Did it relate to a particular exhibit, or was it just a drive-by dissing of the “infidel philosopher”?
Posted by: BobbyEarle | August 15, 2009 3:57 PM
After seeing the 2348 BC date for the flood and the extinction of the dinosaurs over at kenny's, Dr. Sato said:
I think Dr. Sato just qualified for a Molly.
Posted by: detrius | August 15, 2009 3:58 PM
url should have been
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtNdYsoool8
Posted by: lewis e. haymes | August 15, 2009 4:11 PM
If you want to have some real fun ask a Christian what they think heaven is like and what they think they will be doing there. I did just that and the reply was, "I don't know. I guess praising god." So, for being a goodie two shoes your reward is that for the next zillion years....
Posted by: S | August 15, 2009 4:15 PM
He didn't need a historian for that; it's been passed on in tracts and Sunday School papers and devotionals for at least 50 years. I ran into it when I was a teenager, that long ago.Or maybe that's where his historians do their research; in Sunday School papers.
Posted by: Zen Druid | August 15, 2009 4:18 PM
I won't fault anyone who sincerely embraces spirituality, but it behooves those of us who do, to keep it at the same level of privacy as, let's say, our masturbatory habits.
From that perspective, any organized religion reveals itself as a forum for public masturbation. It's not about building an earthly paradise, but more about infecting the normal human libido with a strange debilitating foulness... awshit, I'm rambling....
When we ridicule the lying frauds like Ham, they automatically pass that ridicule on to the imaginary creator for whom they speak, choosing to be oblivious to the fact that they are the true targets.
The prevailing anger here is a response to the demonstrated intention of these people to negate human progress and return to the dark ages.
Please bear with me as I "pray" for the reincarnation of Robert Green Ingersoll.
Posted by: Steven Carr | August 15, 2009 4:19 PM
Anybody mind if I write a 2000 word post on this blog explaining why ID qualifications are just as valid as secular qualifications?
Posted by: Rev. Susannah | August 15, 2009 4:22 PM
IST @31
Woo hoo! I'm a theologian, then.
Posted by: Nattering Nabob of Negativism | August 15, 2009 4:22 PM
Fight the 'angry at god' meme?
My favorite weapon is ridicule. My favorite depiction of God is from South Park.
Atheists are angry at religious people, but their gods amuse the shit out of us.
Hmm, bumper-sticker/poster?
>>> Your gods amuse me!
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 15, 2009 4:24 PM
I din't think much to the title since you didn't exactly protest, but then i forgave them when they said
"Ken Ham, is on a mission to get creationism into science classrooms nationwide". That could hurt.
Posted by: nigelTheBold, Minister of Spankings
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August 15, 2009 4:40 PM
Stephen Carr, #41,
No problems. Fiction is allowed here, as long as it's funny.
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 15, 2009 4:42 PM
-Anybody mind if I write a 2000 word post on this blog explaining why ID qualifications are just as valid as secular qualifications?-
You wouldn't be the first ;p
Posted by: Pablo | August 15, 2009 4:49 PM
"Why do you fight so hard against something you don't believe in?"
Alas, this is the problem, though. These morons actually think the stuff in Harry Potter is REAL. No, not HP himself, but the magic and witches, absolutely. Listen to them, they say things like, "Rowling used _actual witch's spells_ in the book."
They think that crap is real.
Posted by: raven | August 15, 2009 4:50 PM
Why bother? ID=creationism=goddidit.
If you can't summarize an idea in a few sentences, you can't summarize it in a few thousand pages.
The most telling that ID is pure crap. Science got us out of the caves and built a 21st century Hi Tech society that even medieval people couldn't imagine. What in the hell has fundie xianity ever accomplished except assassinating a few MDs and nearly wrecking the country?
Posted by: strangebrew | August 15, 2009 5:00 PM
#47
"They think that crap is real."
Of course they do...it is the only explanation for the claims they make about some second rate...recycled...regurgitated non-entity of a fairy story sky daddy...
They are given to believing utter bollocks...simples like so!
Posted by: raven | August 15, 2009 5:02 PM
Ken Ham's entire creationist theme park is a fight against evolution. It cost 27 million USD and employs Ph.D.s who are wasting their graduate education repeating grade school level thinking. By his logic, evolution must be correct.
Evolution and Darwin are the most attacked science in the history of the world. If the criteria of being attacked indicated Truthfullness, evolution would be on the very top of what we know.
But these are independent variables. All it really shows is that some people can't tell primitive mythology from the real world.
Posted by: Stuart Van Onselen | August 15, 2009 5:23 PM
On a scale of "1" to "10" for deluded arrogance, the phrase "atheists hate god" ranks a solid "fuscia".
Posted by: Christophe Thill | August 15, 2009 5:25 PM
gigi #22:
The text mentioning Voltaire is, if I understand correctly, in the last part of the Creation "Museum". It's part of a panel about how the Church always prevailed against its enemies. Other enemies who are mentioned are "the Greek philosophers in Athens" and "religious prophets claiming to be the Messiah" (with a picture of Rev. Moon and Mrs). You can see them on the picture whose URL I gave.
By the way, I only spoke about the second part: the dubious anecdote. Now there's also the first part: the spurious quote
"Within a century no Bibles will be left on earth""
It's quite clear that in this precise form, it's a fake. I'm convinced (and clues fropm the anecdote tend to confirm it) that its origin is a book by Swiss theologian Adrien Ladrierre about the history of the Church during the last 20 centuries (don't know the year of the book, but the man died in 1902). According to Ladrierre, Voltaire said: "Within a century, the Bible will be history. It will only be found in attics and museums." (my translation).
This is not quite the same as "no bibles will be left on earth", which is a "free" elaboration.
Moreover, that last quote itself is dubious. There is no source, no reference. I'm very suspicious about it. But I keep looking...
Posted by: scooter
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August 15, 2009 5:25 PM
I interviewed PZ Myers in 1972 at a Grateful Dead concert at the Baptist Community Center right off K street in DC.
We were dropping acid with Hunter Thompson and Pat Buchanan, and Zeno as my witness, Fire Brand tm melted my recording machine with his laser eyeballs, and burned my hands into useless charred hideous claws and they stayed that way until the next day.
PZ Myers will deny this, which is a good indicator that it actually happened, because the very act of denial suggests a cover-up in the brave new wingnut world.
You have to watch these PZ Myers characters
Posted by: KevinC | August 15, 2009 6:19 PM
He turned me into a newt!
...
...
...
I got better...
Posted by: Alex C.
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August 15, 2009 6:22 PM
Cool. Maybe some day I will be a firebrand! I've already got fundies trolling my blog, so we'll see.
Posted by: Jason A.
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August 15, 2009 6:30 PM
Hammy thinks you don't believe his museum exists.
Larissa #15:
Well, they believe because they want to believe. It's all about feelings. Therefore, anyone who doesn't believe must decide not to believe because of feelings too. Right?
Posted by: Hurin | August 15, 2009 6:33 PM
@41 "Anybody mind if I write a 2000 word post on this blog explaining why ID qualifications are just as valid as secular qualifications?"
--------------------------------
Qualifications signify that the holder is capable of valid scientific inquiry, not that they are currently engaged in it. A casual inspection indicates that those "Scientists" working with creationist organizations are lending their credentials as a cover for an intellectually dishonest attack on some of the most powerful (and well established) ideas in biology and geology.
So maybe a better use for your time would be explaining why the "work" done by cDesign Proponentsists is worth anyones time, rather than using thier irrelevant "qualifications" to vicariously pull rank.
Posted by: gigi | August 15, 2009 6:57 PM
@ Christophe #52
I’m amused by how they think The Church prevailed against its enemies:
“The Greek philosophers in Athens, who rejected the afterlife, mocked the Apostle Paul’s message about the resurrection of the dead. But the common people were converted, the old ways rejected, and the Roman Empire ‘turned upside down’”
Which is essentially the “I won American Idol so I must be a music super-genius na-na-na-boo-boo” defense. And what’s with the scare quotes around “turned upside down”?
The Voltaire prediction certainly appears to be lifted from Ladrierre’s work. Ladrierre remarks [translating… very loosely with a hint of sarcasm] “the bible has sold millions of copies in hundreds of languages… How many books have you sold, Mr. Voltaire huh? Huh?!” This is roughly equivalent to the “Museum’s” placard that “the Geneva Bible Society took over his house and printing press to produce thousands of Bibles?”
At least the Creation Side-Show and its head carny are consistent. They lie, deceive, and obfuscate, regardless of the discipline. They also seem to enjoy the Pissing Contest method of debate.
Posted by: Liveliest Crib | August 15, 2009 6:58 PM
Of all the theists' failed trump cards, this is quite possibly the strangest. It is apparently self evident to them that no one in his right mind would fight against something in which he does not believe. Which, of course, explains why they never bother to exclaim that believing in those false gods of other religions endangers the soul.
You're right, Ham. Dr. Meyers does not believe in your god. (That's why he's not angry with him.) But he does believe in you, and all the damage you do. And it is you he mocks and fights.
Posted by: Xenithrys | August 15, 2009 7:09 PM
Sadly, qualifications, even PhDs, can sometimes mean that the candidate persisted to the end of the course or dissertation, and managed to scrape by by exhausting the examiners. In the British Commonwealth tradition, unless a PhD is truly awful, it gets sent back for revision. If the revision isn't truly awful, by then the examiners are so sick of it all they sigh and reluctantly pass it.
A PhD, even in a science discipline, is certainly not always a guarantee that the holder can do science. At worst, it could mean that the holder once managed to convince several examiners (perhaps lazy or incompetent examiners) that they had done some research that looked like science.
I've been told that some internationally top universities have virtually no examination, because they take the view that if you're good enough to be accepted into the PhD program then you're good enough to pass.
Posted by: Heather | August 15, 2009 7:15 PM
The "firebrand" article at the Star Tribune sure attracted the trolls in the comment section. Some folks must feel mighty uncomfortable.
Posted by: DLC | August 15, 2009 7:20 PM
For the umpteen millionth time: We, the non-believers, do not hate gods, be they yawheh, Odin, Mitra, Shiva or Ra.
We hold that such beings do not in fact exist.
However, this is entirely beside the point. It would not matter if P Z Myers were a fervent believer who marched up and down shouting his anger at Zeus -- that is not the issue.
The issue is that this "museum" is chock full of lies. Even disregarding the religion issue, the sheer bulk of non-factual information presented (i.e. Lies) makes any rational person cringe.
Posted by: CortxVortx | August 15, 2009 7:23 PM
The reporter is the same Devlin Powell who's article was on ABC News and AIP "Inside Science" websites. So, woo-hoo! Got my name on teh 'tubes once again!
Posted by: Christophe Thill | August 15, 2009 7:24 PM
gigi:
Don't just get me started on that one! I'm not much of a specialist in ancient history. But there are quite a few questions deserving to be asked.
"The Greek philosophers in Athens, who rejected the afterlife, mocked the Apostle Paul’s message about the resurrection of the dead."
-Did all Greek philosophers reject the afterlife? Platonicism, if I remember correctly, posits an immortal soul that gets in touch with the world of Ideas between two incarnations. And weren't Pythagoricians known to believe in the transmigration of souls?
-Did the Greek philosophers really care to say something about the message of Paul of Tarsus?
"But the common people were converted,"
-Do they mean the Athenians?
-Do they include peasants in the "common people"? If so, are they aware that it took quite a bigger bit of time (and some violence) to convert them than it took for the inhabitants of the cities?
"the old ways rejected,"
-What "old ways" exactly?
-Do they know that a rather big "old way" wasn't rejected before a few centuries? I mean, the dominant mode of production: slavery.
-Talking specifically about religions, do they know that the old ones lived on for centuries, and that, again, it took a lot of state and Church-sponsored violence to destroy them completely?
"and the Roman Empire ‘turned upside down’” "
-The Roman Empire? So we're not in Athens anymore?
-What does "turned upside down" exactly mean?
-Why the quotes? Is it a quotation? If so, from whom?
-What does it have to do with the Greek philosophers? Were they also "turned upside down" (or rejected) at the same time?
-Do they know that Christianity was the state religion in Rome when the Empire was destroyed?
I think I'm on to something! Call the press! The peole at the Creation "Museum" are a bunch of ignorants!!!
Oh... People already know that?
Posted by: JHS
|
August 15, 2009 7:26 PM
There's no fighting it. The media loves its conflicts, and it delights in creating and sustaining them.
I wonder how long it will take for the MSM to adopt an anti-atheist meme. After all, we're all clearly morally bankrupt, ethically adrift, and likely to commit genocide and/or mass euthanasia at the drop of a hat. Hell, I invaded a small European country and cleansed it of undesirables just this morning! As all atheists do each morning, I'm told. I also made sure I rounded up the religious and, you know, anyone and everyone who didn't agree with me and did away with them in all sorts of awful, homosexual ways. We atheists sure hate free speech, and since we're clearly the most privileged class in American society, it all comes so naturally.
(/snark)
Posted by: CortxVortx | August 15, 2009 7:30 PM
And, before this all blows over: Someone in a flame-motif shirt got PZ to sign a copy of the Necronomicon, to which PZ commented, "You know this makes it ten times more evil."
I got a photo of the moment:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=63872&l=04deba2c07&id=1744946659
Someone point him here for his keepsake picture!
Posted by: CortxVortx | August 15, 2009 7:36 PM
This, from someone who has spent a lifetime fighting evolution -- something he doesn't believe exists?
Hypocrite!
Posted by: Monkeyman8 | August 15, 2009 7:52 PM
PZ Mayers will from this day forward be known as Firebrand sword of intellect and guiding light fighting against the darkness of creationists.
Posted by: M | August 15, 2009 8:00 PM
#16
Even if no one else did, I lol'd. Keep reducing that THACO buddy
Posted by: DLC | August 15, 2009 8:53 PM
Man, THAC0 is So 2e... get with the times !
Posted by: Medievalist Jon | August 15, 2009 9:18 PM
The "atheists hate god" meme is classic creationist/apologist evasion. To some, it seems like a good comeback but really it's a deflection from the matter being argued that isn't irrelevant enough for casual observers to notice.
"I think your facts are incorrect. Here's why...."
"You must really be angry."
Don't forget the "punchline," though: even though we don't believe in god, PZ and all the atheists are mighty angry at the old man in the sky. It's positively a Reagan-esque line, and I bet it gets lots of smug laughs on sunday morning.
Posted by: Owen | August 15, 2009 9:48 PM
Oh, and "atheist angry with god" sounds almost like a Terry Pratchett quotemine. I think the full quote is something like "I'm an old-fashioned atheist, the sort who's angry with God for not existing"
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood | August 15, 2009 10:21 PM
By the same logic, Ken Ham must be angry at Cthulhu.
Does that mean he will be eaten first, or last?
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood | August 15, 2009 10:29 PM
Its better to be an atheist firebrand than one of those fundamentalist nutters who claim to be the burning sword of god'd retribution. I once heard the ultimate riposte to such claims, delivered in an educated, slightly upper crust British accent;
"Burning sword? You do know you can get a cream for that, old chap?"
Posted by: brauneyz | August 15, 2009 10:36 PM
Re: Steven Carr@#41:
Some of you seem to miss Steven's joke about a 2000 word post. Scroll back a few days to catch PZ's post about Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. To get the joke, read the course requirements here that involve 'hostile' websites.
http://www.designinference.com/teaching/teaching.htm
Posted by: Les Lane | August 15, 2009 10:44 PM
Should read "Our own, full-time Ph.D. apologists..."Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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August 15, 2009 11:31 PM
I'm not too fond of Melqart. He moonlights at a package store and he once shorted me a quarter in my change.
Posted by: foxfire | August 16, 2009 12:20 AM
PZ, Thank you for the link to that excellent article. A million visitors a week.....is that a million different visitors or a million hits a week? Just had to ask - you teach people to question the data.
Thank you also for the research you perform, in between teaching and blogging. So it's "only" zebra fish....who knows what you might discover? Brains have been particularly relevant in my life over the past 9 years and the past several years have been a real "bitch" so to speak. The downward brain-related spiral is rapidly accelerating.
My 86 year-old mother has dementia and my 89 year-old father who loves her so much, abandoned thoughts of doing anything other than caring for her. He tries so hard to get her to do things they used to enjoy and he never gives up. He is living on sheer will (he is diabetic, with a pacemaker, and other medical problems), because he is afraid of what will happen to her if he dies. At first it appeared to be depression and after a significant number of ECTs he has finally faced the reality of that horrid, not yet well understood condition called dementia. Fortunately, they are now (almost - got a few things to do) moved into an excellent assisted living facility that also has a memory unit.
So, now to the god thing.
My mother has grasped the concept of what is happening to her and tonight I learned she has great fear of dying. She is the product of a devout Irish/German Roman Catholic upbringing. Perhaps she thinks she is going to hell? Guess what. Tomorrow I'll start teaching her that she is made of star-stuff and is as eternal as this Universe we inhabit. Hopefully, she will come to understand that there is no hell or heaven and she doesn't have to be afraid. I don't have much time to accomplish this and the upside is that she loves me a lot more than the infection the priests/nuns injected.
TO ANY religious person reading this, I give you a promise that I will defend, even if it results in my death:
I promise that I will do everything in my power (excluding any violence or manipulation of facts) to help release others from the superstitious nonsense that so twists and destroys peoples' lives;
I promise to do everything I can to promote science and reason over faith and help people deal with death in a sensitive manner, so they can pass in peace without fear.
TO PZ :
I don't know if you will see this. Whatever; I think you are helping a lot of people cast off fear by providing a forum and offering your thoughts. For what it is worth (a plug nickel?), you and Richard Dawkins have significantly influenced my life and helped me deal with a very difficult situation.
I can only say thank you, PZ, and I do mean this with all sincerity,
foxfire (Robin)
Posted by: Dan W | August 16, 2009 1:42 AM
Hey, if someone called me a firebrand, I'd gladly embrace the title also! So congrats on that, PZ.
I'm not at all surprised by Ken Ham's idiotic statement. It's so bad he effectively makes himself sound like a moron. Apparently atheists hate god, even though we don't believe he exists... wait, what? It's like saying a person who doesn't believe in Santa Claus hates Santa! It's completely nonsensical!
On a semi-related note, I have a story to tell involving similar idiotic statements made by religious folk. So, I'm a bit of a gamer, and a week or so ago, I was playing on an online server of this shooter game I like, playing under the profile name "atheist man", when another player asked, over the chat function of the game, what an atheist is. Another atheist player and I told him, quite simply, that an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods. So, I figured that was all of that and continued playing the game, when a few minutes later I noticed that a couple of religious players had started an argument over the chat (this is the kind of chat where you type what you want to say, not talk via microphones) in which they claimed that atheists hate god. So, myself and the other atheist player there tried to explain to them that such comments made no sense, with similar replies to the one I made in the prievious paragraph, but they refused to listen to reason, with one of them continuing to assert in ALL CAPS that atheists hate god, et cetera. I then gave up on the argument and suggested we stop debating religion over the chat and just play the game. Fortunately, they did so. It irritated me that those religious guys couldn't see reason, but that event also surprised me, because I'd never had a religious debate happen on an online game, possibly sparked by my profile name.
Posted by: Dan W | August 16, 2009 2:06 AM
KevinC at 54:
Burn the witch!
:)
I love Yugioh the Abridged Series. It's awesome.
Posted by: toth | August 16, 2009 2:39 PM
Dear Hambone:
As a great woman once said:
"How about, in honor of our troops, we stop making things up?"
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | August 16, 2009 6:36 PM
#78 Foxfire
So sad. Not just that a long, productive life ends in mental decay (I always find it so curious that God, who wants to be known and worshiped by His followers, so often strips them of the mind they need to do this at the end of their days. Not very Intelligent Design there, God........)
But that so often the Faith that is supposed to take away the fear of death ("No Jesus, No Peace. Know Jesus, Know Peace.")....well, just doesn't.
Knowledge that you have eternal life is supposed to make the trials and tribulations of this life endurable. What is a measly 4 score & ten of suffering against an eternity of peace and happiness? Yet they are the most ardent supporters of death penalties, self-defense and war.
They give lip-service to "Know Jesus, Know Peace" but they don't really believe it themselves.
Posted by: foxfire | August 16, 2009 8:53 PM
Hypatia's Daughter #82
To me, eternal life (with the heaven/hell choice) sounds horrid. Think about it: endless physical torment vs forever having nothing to do but praise some sadistically psychotic deity. So what's the difference? Nah.....give me peaceful oblivion when my time here is done.
.Yeah, and don't forget absolute intolerance for anyone who doesn't adhere to their particular definition of morality. One doesn't see a lot of secular humanists declaring war on the world.
Posted by: Jerry | August 16, 2009 10:42 PM
Z, Did anybody ever tell you that you were a genius?
Witty too.
You're my favorite atheist.
Posted by: Roel | August 17, 2009 4:47 AM
To foxfire (Robin) #78,
Your post gave me the shivers. Good luck to you and your parents.
Posted by: Steve P. | August 17, 2009 8:29 AM
PZ: 'highly educated crackpots'.
It looks like and oxymoron. It smell like an oxymoron.
Well, whaddaya know!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Posted by: Steve Greene | August 17, 2009 10:15 AM
Ken Ham: "This man is obviously very angry at God and relishes in mocking Christianity -- spending a lot of his time fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists!"
I always laugh when these guys pretend that they are God.
Posted by: GregB | August 17, 2009 11:46 AM
Posted by: DGKnipfer | August 18, 2009 2:47 PM
To foxfire (Robin) #78,
As somebody who has watched several family members endure Dementia in their late years I fully understand your pain. My grandmother and all her siblings endured advanced Alzheimer's for their last 8 to 10 years and I fear that my father and his siblings may be doomed to that fate if Alzheimer research doesn't make some huge breakthroughs soon. All my sympathies.