…and this is a 
An eccentric Norwegian musician named Varg Vikernes has been updating (a polite word for "making up") a Norse origins story. It's nuts, but no crazier than the stuff Ken Ham and Ray Comfort want you to believe (and they, too, have been "updating" a very short metaphor from the Bible to make for a very elaborate story). Here's Vikernes' version of the creation:
Our world was created in co-operation between these three proto-forces. Between Múspellheimr (the stars) and Niflheimr (the frozen matter in space) there was Gínungagap (the void). The universe was resting. It was inactive. It was in a state of complete balance.
The universe woke after this rest of Freyr. Óðinn's force threw the mass out in all directions again. The stars began to melt the frozen matter in space when they met each other, out there in Gínungagap; in the void.
In Múspellheimr, there was the divine bosom, the explosion which gives new life to the universe. In Niflheimr, there was the resting divine thought, frozen. The ice melted and it became active again.
In Ragnarök, the opposite forces cancel each other out until only one force is left standing. Since the gravitational pull is constant, while the explosion only works over a limited time, gravity will always win. It will always, after a period of time, force the mass of universe together again.
The mark of this is the gods' preparation for Ragnarök. Óðinn has endeavoured to win the battle, even though he knows he will always lose in the end. He will always die, no matter how much force he puts into his explosion - because gravity is constant, while his own power, after some time, will cease to function. That, which is then to come, is the Jotun's destruction of our world. It is destroyed at that time when the planets and the stars are forced together into one point again. The sky falls down.
But the humans will return yet again. For Líf (the force of life) and Lífþrasi (the will of life) hides in Hoddmímis grove. There, they feed on the dew of the morning. When the universe again explodes, the ice will melt and the force of life will become active once again. No Ragnarök can destroy this treasure of the memory.
The universe is the lung of Tuisto, which rhythmically breathes, in and out. His brain is the thought that becomes frozen at the collapse of the universe. This thought becomes active again, when Tuisto breathes out, and lets Óðinn's explosion heat it up. Tuisto's thought then forms and creates a new and living universe.
Tuisto's thought directs his two round palms. The force of the explosion is in one of them, gravity in the other. One of them is the white hole of the universe, the other the black hole of the universe. With these, Tuisto can move around the celestial bodies, irradiate and increase or decrease them.
At each black hole, there exist so-called naked singularities. Besides these, there exist invisible holes in the universe, which we call wormholes. Here, objects may enter in order to exit at a completely different place in the universe; independent of both time and space. The exits of these holes are what we call white holes. The mass that was dragged towards the black hole (by gravity) hit a wormhole instead; where it bursts out the egress of the white hole with an enormous force.
Black holes will only get more massive, and will only gravitate more and more matter in the universe, until a hole becomes so big that it is capable of absorbing all other mass in the universe. This is where Irminsûl's role enters, because it is actually Tuisto, the god-pillar in the centre - the high-seat, that is supposed to balance the two other proto-forces. Tuisto's brain, the thought, can place wormholes inside the black holes, so that they empty in mass faster than they are filled up. Thus the one hand negates the other hand's actions, which results in balance.
That's truly absurd and silly, but if ever the creationists get their wish and 'teach the controversy' gets enshrined in law somewhere, I think we need to have this story taught to all the children, on equal footing with the Christian myth.
And then I want to see a debate between Comfort and a lunatic in chainmail. Both can use axes, to make it fair.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: JHS
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September 22, 2009 7:19 PM
Varg is clearly smoking the good shit.
Posted by: gyeong-hwa
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September 22, 2009 7:20 PM
But you know they'll never do that. They'd just spew some bull about how this is a Christian Nation (tm), completely disregarding our very own constitution.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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September 22, 2009 7:21 PM
I thought that life came from other parts of the body. And I'd really hate to see a bosom explode.
Posted by: MagicBox
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September 22, 2009 7:26 PM
I see "black hole" is a term joining "quantum" for the most ludicrously interpreted scientific term in all of mystical revelation...
Posted by: carlos aegan
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September 22, 2009 7:28 PM
call up ufc!
SUUUUUNDAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!
VARG "THOR'S HAMMER" VIKERNES VS RAY "BANANA-MAN" COMFORT!
MUSICIAN VS ... WHAT-EVER-IT-IS-THAT-COMFORT-DOES!
DON'T MISS IT!
Posted by: Kraid
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September 22, 2009 7:32 PM
Life imitates art
Posted by: Bobber
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September 22, 2009 7:32 PM
And then Dethklok awakened the Finnish lake troll.
Posted by: Valdyr
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September 22, 2009 7:32 PM
Varg Vikernes is a convicted murderer who also has a history of church arsons. "Eccentric" is a bit inadequate, I think. It's good (I guess?) to see that he's abandoned militant Satanism in favor of a less Christianity-based belief system, though. Or at least it's a little fresher to hear someone rant at you about the imminence of Ragnarok rather than the same tired Armageddon story. At least the Norse had the balls to portray their gods as mortal (and indeed, fated to get murdered to death, largely by a bunch of horrible monsters, at the end of days).
Posted by: Ragutis
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September 22, 2009 7:33 PM
Varg is one crazy fucker. He makes Gaahl look vanilla.
Posted by: truthspeaker
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September 22, 2009 7:47 PM
Is he the guy who murdered one of his friends, then made jewelry out of the bones?
Posted by: Kaddath
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September 22, 2009 7:47 PM
Actually a nice symphonic metal track from Therion (yes,
Nordic band)
http://www.amazon.ca/Secret-Runes-Therion/dp/B00005UC08/ref=sr_1_43?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253663218&sr=8-43
Posted by: Comstock
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September 22, 2009 7:48 PM
To further Valdyr's point a bit. Vikernes is not only a church burner and a murderer, he's also a well documented white supremacist. I'm a big fan of black metal, love Norse myth, but I'd have a hard time supporting teaching much associated with Vikernes to kids.
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate
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September 22, 2009 7:51 PM
I thought this to be of interest:
We do not know how much the Judeo-Christian spiritual-pest has hampered evolution, but we know that we must find our way back to our Indo-European thought; to the development of nature, and through this move forward again. The track we must follow to achieve this is Irminsûl!
The healthy Aryans must gather around Irminsûl. Intelligence must be worshipped; the purity of the folk must be worshipped. This can only be accomplished if our people adopt the view of life that we in the AHF stand for. We must, therefore, see that they do so.
Flowery copy for a white, tooth-gnashing nazi.
Posted by: mcbender
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September 22, 2009 8:01 PM
One can hope that Mr. Vikernes will avail himself of these self-defence tips before confronting Ray "Bananaman" Comfort...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w
Posted by: Qwerty
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September 22, 2009 8:04 PM
Yes, we need to teach the children about the "divine bosom" and the "black hole." I am sure that will go over well at the Texas BofE.
Posted by: G.D.
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September 22, 2009 8:15 PM
Without knowing mr. Vikernes personally, I've read several interviews (after all he's an interestingly peculiar character). I strongly suspect (although I cannot guarantee) that Vikernes doesn't actually believe this rather poorly constructed creation myth; it's more like building a fantasy universe or a mythology for his ideological commitments, one which he knows is literally false but which he still defends as part of his image as a quasi-poet, musician and author. (Maybe he believes it in some post-modern sense (it's just another reinterpretation of reality, you know, and reality is nothing but text). That seems to be pretty common for emo, goth and wanna-be hippie kids. But then not even the most ardent post-modernist actually believes their crap when it comes to interactions with their surroundings in real life). I guess my point is that I doubt Vikernes belives this bollocks in the sense that Ray Comfort believes his delusional fantasies.
Posted by: MosesZD
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September 22, 2009 8:20 PM
It makes perfect sense to me. Of course, when I was in third grade I decided to worship Thor. So I have to admit I'm a bit biased.
Posted by: ArmandTanzarian
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September 22, 2009 8:26 PM
Holy shit that's Burzum. He just got out of 16 years in prison for killing a guy and setting a handful of churches on fire.
Really all you need to know about him. Other than the fact he's a pretty respected Black Metal musician.
Posted by: selfexisting
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September 22, 2009 8:34 PM
My favorite comic on this very issue:
http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly041229.htm
Posted by: Tim D.
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September 22, 2009 8:36 PM
I actually own (and enjoy) a Burzum record, but Varg is a nut.
Posted by: Greg F.
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September 22, 2009 8:41 PM
Actually, I think it's much more creative than the "God said and stuff happened" approach of Genesis. Christians and Jews really got a very mediocre and mundane creation story.
Posted by: AnneH
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September 22, 2009 8:52 PM
http://www.bravo.co.uk/shows/deadliest-warrior/gallery.php?ssid=11
There's your 'debater', PZ.
Posted by: abb3w
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September 22, 2009 8:55 PM
ODIN!
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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September 22, 2009 9:12 PM
The Wiki on Varg is informative. Nazi, right winger, ego inflated shit head.
Posted by: Todd
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September 22, 2009 9:14 PM
I don't believe he made any of that up. That's Norse mythology in a nutshell. Of course, the word "mythology" may have been where Varg missed the boat.
FTR, I like his music.
Posted by: windy
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September 22, 2009 9:18 PM
Tuisto? Sounds Finnish. Apparently he's the "divine ancestor of the Germanic peoples", though.
Posted by: Ragutis
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September 22, 2009 9:37 PM
No. The guy Varg killed is the guy who, finding the band's (Mayhem) singer dead of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, ran to grab a camera and gathered up bits of the skull to make a necklace. Then he called the cops.
There were rumors that he'd also made soup out of the guy's brains, but I really don't see how anyone could believe anything so ridiculous. Oh. That's right. We're talking about black metal.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM
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September 22, 2009 9:41 PM
Varg is clearly smoking the good shit.
I must never have had good shit. I mean, I've had massive munchies, giggle my ass off, sat staring into face, written incredibly poor prose, found profundity where there wasn't any, but I've never imagined demons and gods and frozen stars giving birth.
What is this "good shit" laced with?
And where are my poptarts?
Posted by: gyeong-hwa
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September 22, 2009 9:49 PM
Echinopsis pachanoi- That's how the ancient people of the Andes got their messages from the gods.
Posted by: BicycleRepairMan
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September 22, 2009 10:03 PM
Oh, yea, the old "Count" as he is refereed to here, truly a deranged loser, I think he just got out after serving a sentence for homicide and churchburning. Yes, this is the guy who put norway on the map as a nation where churches are burned down by black metal dudes. He`s been through his black metal and nazi phases, and is now apparantly into some viking shit. I fully expect him to go all the way into lala-land and accept Jebus in the close future.
Posted by: Standard Curve
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September 22, 2009 10:05 PM
You should have posted this tomorrow on Odin's day (Wednesday) instead of Tyr's day (Tuesday), since Tyr wasn't mentioned.
Speaking of which, I'm surprised that the Xian Fundies aren't up in arms over the names of the days of the week, since most of them come from other mythologies. I could totally see a bunch of nuts trying to get Thor's day changed to Matthewsday or some such nonsense.
Posted by: startlingmoniker.wordpress.com
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September 22, 2009 10:48 PM
...and for the record, Burzum totally sucks.
Posted by: Lyr
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September 22, 2009 11:10 PM
Actually, this is much cooler than Genesis.
Lyr
Posted by: btj
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September 22, 2009 11:22 PM
Despite the clever story line, this is nothing more than a dull rehashing of the old "god of the Gínungagaps" fallacy.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
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September 22, 2009 11:39 PM
btj #34 for the win!
Posted by: Tankred
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September 23, 2009 12:57 AM
Oh Varg. Your music was so great, yet your mouth never ceases to spout nonsense. Black metal musicians already have a bad image, and Varg is just making it worse. Funny, because he helped invent the modern BM look.
That being said, he's probably just saying most of this to piss people off.
Posted by: DocSoftly
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September 23, 2009 2:04 AM
The Fun-Damning-Meany-ID'its could have the week's names as:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John days and then Peter, Paul, and Mary days.
Or, is that spelled *DAZE* ?
Posted by: shonny
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September 23, 2009 2:13 AM
Maybe a little less enthusiasm for Varg after realising he took Kvisling (quisling) as a middle name, and he is a hobby nazi.
That is, he is a national socialist.
And raving mad in the REAL sense of the term.
Both old Norse mythology is a lot more entertaining and life-embracing that the Middle Eastern goatfuckers' hateful stuff. The Norse gods, with one exception, Loki, settled things there and then. Maybe not in a peaceful manner, but final.
Posted by: Lars
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September 23, 2009 3:16 AM
FTR, I never listened much to Burzum but I'm starting to like Vreid. What I don't like is the rebuilt church that Kristian (yes, that's "Varg"'s real name) once burned down, three stone throws from here. It looks like it's made out of plastic, and it's got security cameras all over it. I had hoped Kristian got some sense into him after having two kids. But no, apparently he'll just carry on being an egocentric asshole celebrity maniac. Oh well.
Posted by: ryk
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September 23, 2009 3:25 AM
I like the axe and chainmail debate idea. Though, I'm not so sure Comfort should get to use chainmail; There is no record of Jesus ever using chainmail, or even endorsing it's use (as far as I know...) so it must be pretty evil and profane stuff that only heathens use, or something like that...
Posted by: shargraves
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September 23, 2009 4:26 AM
More fun than genesis but come on - I thought this blog had a sense of humour! I wrote a climate change song called "CroMagnon Werewolf Army" about the slaughter Neanderthaals by caveman werewolves that were eventually frozen in lycanthropic suspended animation in a glacier - and if we let the ice caps thaw they will be released and sweep down from the steppes to take over the world - but I wouldn't expect critical analysis on a respected biologists blog as it's as far removed from being serious as you can get. (Though the riff kicks ass!)
Posted by: soiledslacks
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September 23, 2009 4:29 AM
Is it common practice these days for crackpots to throw these scientific terms into this kind of garbage under the wrong context? I'm sure I saw quantum being banded about a while back too.
Preying on the less educated is a tactic that seems to work unfortunately :(
Posted by: Liveliest Crib
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September 23, 2009 6:05 AM
I am truly offended by this creation story.
People who know the truth know that the universe was cobbled together by Mr. and Mrs. Chet Ong in the early 1940s, and only made to look like it existed before then. Sheesh.
Posted by: shaunotd
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September 23, 2009 6:25 AM
@ Ryk #40
I wouldn't be so sure...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliand
In general - yup 'Varg' is a monomaniacal neo-nazi arsonist and convicted murderer, in a 'premeditated-first-degree-face-to-face kind of way. He has no business being outside of jail or a secure mental facility.
Posted by: Acolyte of the Pink Unicorn Goddess
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September 23, 2009 6:47 AM
Clearly, Vikernes has read the Norse Edda about as much as the average fundie reads his Bible, i. e. not at all. His creation myth is cobbled together out of words he might remember from high school, and pure bat guano.
The only other thing worth noting about him, is that he is a thoroughly unpleasant nut, white supremacist and murderer with delusions.
Posted by: angrylagomorph
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September 23, 2009 7:43 AM
I am annoyed to see someone doing such violence not only to the only northern European mythological tradition to survive the Christian campaign of cultural annihilation and co-option in even the barest sense, but also to a tradition which happens to be one of the most unique mythologies humanity has ever created.
Nowhere else can one find a religion that accepted the inevitability of death and destruction so clearly, or saw the only chance for victory in one's personal heroism and persistence. To reduce Odin, the giants, and the dragon to transparent allegories of physical processes is to remove from the few stories that survive all their power to teach us the value of facing adversity squarely.
Posted by: MartinL
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September 23, 2009 7:57 AM
Well... yes, the guy is definitely mad as apeshit.He's not "eccentric." If you don't regard killing someone and burning some churches as "eccentric", that is.
He is a convicted murderer, who spend the time from 1993 to 2009 in prison for murder of the guitar player of "Mayhem" and 3 cases of arson.
He has deep bindings into the extreme right and fascist scene.
Frankly, Vikernes is an all-round, absolutely crazy, dangerous arsehole, who should be sunk in a Fjord as soon as possible.
Posted by: Chris
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September 23, 2009 8:26 AM
And then I want to see a debate between Comfort and a lunatic in chainmail.
Guess the outcome.
Posted by: Lotharloo
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September 23, 2009 8:33 AM
I have a much cooler creation story:
Posted by: Lotharloo
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September 23, 2009 8:36 AM
Gosh, I screwed up the blockquote again. I'll post again but it's not funny anymore.
I wonder if anyone would recognize it though.
Posted by: daenku32
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September 23, 2009 8:41 AM
You killed Euronymous, you bastard!
Posted by: shonny
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September 23, 2009 8:44 AM
For those who want a bit more information about the Old Norse religions and their modern day supporters, try this one:
http://www.bifrost.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=313&Itemid=111
As a religion or belief system it is considerably more intelligent than xianity or islam or similar silly superstitions. The thing about the Germanic and Old Norse myths, they were not as good to use for rulers, because the rulers would have to prove themselves worthy, and not claim any relation to a deity. Makes MUCH more sense, uh?
Posted by: verreauxi
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September 23, 2009 8:47 AM
He wrong. We are all descendants of Mrs. Garrett
Posted by: Knockgoats
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September 23, 2009 8:47 AM
The thing about the Germanic and Old Norse myths, they were not as good to use for rulers, because the rulers would have to prove themselves worthy, and not claim any relation to a deity. - shonny
Not true. All the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon dynasties in England claimed descent from one of the gods, usually Woden.
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate
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September 23, 2009 10:55 AM
Let's not neglect all the perks of testosterone-driven culture. Rape & pillage, conflict resolution arbitrated @ sword point, oh, & going absolutely bugshit crazy in battle was highly valued. Drawing the blood eage was, I guess, their version of water-boarding.Posted by: Old Rasputin
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September 23, 2009 12:36 PM
Ah yes I wondered what old Varg was up to these days... Didn't expect to hear about him on here though.
For those of you criticizing him for arson and murder, perhaps you were unaware that these two activities are actually very 'metal' - Dethklok agrees:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqF49e_3PMU
Sincerelys,
-Skwisgaar
Posted by: Piltdown Man
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September 23, 2009 2:26 PM
Oh beautiful. Now PZ Myers does a puff piece for Varg Vikernes!
Yep, he's abandoned the Satanism of his misspent youth and is now a good pagan National Socialist. Check him out. (Don't worry, it's an impeccably leftist source - the SPLC.)
AnneH @ 22:
No contest.
The heathen Vikings overran Anglo-Saxon England and well and truly kicked the hapless Christian king Alfred's butt. Then, when all seemed lost, Alfred the Great's rag-tag army thrashed them at the Battle of Ethandune (A.D. 878) and their chieftain Guthrum submitted to our baptism.
By the 10th century King Cnut was ruler of a great Christian Viking Empire. Scandinavian Christianity produced the exquisite wooden stave churches that Varg Vikernes delighted in burning.
When Varg croaks I'm sure St Olaf (aka the Shaman-Slayer) will be waitiing to kick him downstairs where he'll be introduced to such quaint pagan customs as the blood eagle ...
Posted by: Piltdown Man
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September 23, 2009 2:29 PM
Chris @ 48:
Haven't you heard? Thor's dead. St Boniface cut him down to size -- literally.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
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September 23, 2009 2:32 PM
Puff piece?
FOR?
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate
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September 23, 2009 2:47 PM
What I find most interesting, is that for centuries the Scandinavians (read: Norse/Norwegians) were legendary for their ferocity & barbarity, but the culture (& the people) have evolved so much, that they don't resemble their ancestors in behavior.
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
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September 23, 2009 3:40 PM
Actually, We had the Edda in 4th grade (US 6th grade, I'd guess. I was 9). Year before that, the Old Testament, year after that, Greeks and Romans. When you're nine, the Edda does make an impression.Posted by: Piltdown Man
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September 23, 2009 3:52 PM
Rev. BigDumbChimp @ 59:
OK that was an exaggeration. He did say Vikernes was crazy. But he also implied Vikernes' garbage should be judged "on equal footing with the Christian myth".
Did he even read the full text that he linked to? -
Well that's "eccentric".
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
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September 23, 2009 3:57 PM
The solar race?
Posted by: MichelP
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September 23, 2009 6:00 PM
That story is in a way beautiful, poetic.
It should definitely be part of a "Teach the controversy" program. Anybody with nordic ancestry should claim the right to have this tale taught alongside any creationist & biblical crap.
Posted by: Last Hussar
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September 23, 2009 8:12 PM
See, this is what happens when you let someone who knows little about the field write stuff. So that no one has the excuse for such glaring inaccuracies again I will tell you the correct terminology.
It's MAIL. Not chainmail. Just mail. Gary Gygax has a lot to answer for.
Interestingly Odin was nailed to a piece of wood (Yggdrasil the world tree) and pierced by a spear. He died and rose again thus attaining his God-hood. Reminds me of something...
Much of the initial conversion of A-S England was political, and a number of people, including kings, would keep one Altar to the White Christ, and another by the side to the 'Old Gods', because these were gods you really didn't want to get on the wrong side of.
Missionaries believed in these gods too, not as agents of Satan, but of actual gods in opposition to theirs. One account decribes how a bound shaman was freed from his bonds by his gods. More acceptance from God he has neighbours? ("Thou shalt have no other gods before me"- not 'worship false gods'- as long as you put the Genocidal maniac first!)
Days of the week are of course Sunday, Moonday Tyr's day, (W)odin's day, Thor's day, Freya's day and oddly, Saturns day. Except in Germany, where the worship of Odin lasted long enough into the middle ages for the church to rename it to Mittwoch (nice and neutral!).
Interestingly Christianity has shaped the culture of Western Europe, and thus the US right down to the food you find acceptable. Anyone who has travelled in France will know that Horse meat is sold along side beef and pork etc. Those of us with an Anglo Saxon culture find this unsavoury. The reason- yep Christianity. Horse sacrifice was big in England, and thus stamped on. With no such religeon in France etc it stayed on the menu.
Posted by: Last Hussar
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September 23, 2009 8:20 PM
Sorry to double dip, meant to also add that the Saxons never really got the Christian message part of Christianity.
"Yeah yeah, Jesus meek and mild, love thy neighbour. Now tell us more about the bloke using the jaw bone in a fight. Who else did he twat?"
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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September 23, 2009 8:23 PM
Myths are false, both Nordic and Xian. What is your problem?Posted by: The Pale Scot
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September 23, 2009 9:40 PM
RAGNARÔK IS COMING!!!!
BE THERE!
A SPIRITUAL MESSAGE FROM THE NORSE BRAHMANIC FAITH...
"All Things Are One, But some things are more one than others."
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate
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September 23, 2009 9:59 PM
Both borrowed heavily from the same source - Norse mythology. Of course, a 6-day creation, people living past 600, earth standing still, zombie jay-sus, great deluge, etc. Yeah, that makes WAY more sense. (rolls eyes)Posted by: WashingMachine0
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September 24, 2009 4:42 AM
Reading that story makes me want to go and listen to Burzum's "Hvis lyset tar oss" for about the millionth time. As messed up Varg is that album is a masterwork.
Posted by: Cliff Hendroval
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September 24, 2009 12:13 PM
OK, Pale Scot, 'fess up. Were you there for the original horse sacrifice? Did you make armor down in the basement?
Signed,
Erstwhile DJ
Posted by: The Pale Scot
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September 29, 2009 6:24 PM
No,
Sorry to say, the sweet bliss of the axe was to revealed to me by St. Eric during one of his summer sojourns.
Posted by: The Pale Scot
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September 29, 2009 6:28 PM
I'm a member of the westfield congregation.