…and this is a 
Uh, there is a Team Canada, isn't there? Many of you may have noticed that Dennis Markuze has been going on a commenting spree lately. He's leaving a few hundred threatening messages a day, which I clean up as I find them, and has also said he is emailing these threats to every individual member of my university (I haven't verified that he has yet, but he has done so in the past). I'd say he is just another deranged spammer, except that he's been escalating lately — the messages have become more personal and much more violent. Here's a small sample of the terroristic threats he's sending out:
i will execute you. the police wont save you
God told me to MURDER you...
pz and his entire family will burn in HELL...
police won't save that fucker from me...
you will be executed without mercy...
you have forfeit your lives...
and the police wont save you...
see, the entire university is going to be destroyed because of blaspheming PZ...
this will be sent to every member of the University...
police won't save that fucker from me...
did you know that blasphemy is punishable by DEATH and I am here to execute all of you?
He is quite simply insane, and unfortunately, he's got violent delusions and is becoming increasingly frenetic in his outbursts. It's time to call in the police. Unfortunately, he's Canadian, so I need to contact them…and the Mounties don't have a station down here in Minnesota. Here are some of his recent IP addresses.
whois 72.12.103.179
B2B2C Inc B2B2C-CABLE (NET-72-12-96-0-1)
72.12.96.0 - 72.12.111.255
CIDC Internal use B2B2C-CABLE1 (NET-72-12-96-0-2)
72.12.96.0 - 72.12.111.255whois 69.70.187.234
Le Groupe Videotron Ltee VL-13BL (NET-69-70-0-0-1)
69.70.0.0 - 69.70.255.255
Videotron Ltee VL-D-QN-4546BB00 (NET-69-70-187-0-1)
69.70.187.0 - 69.70.187.255whois 69.28.232.153
Peer 1 Network Inc. PEER1-BLK-07 (NET-69-28-192-0-1)
69.28.192.0 - 69.28.255.255
3482286 Canada Inc PEER1-3482286CANADA-02 (NET-69-28-232-0-1)
69.28.232.0 - 69.28.233.255
I suspect that he spends his insomniac nights wandering from internet cafe to internet cafe, sitting down for a while in each to tap in his rants and screeds and post them repeatedly to various blogs and forums. It makes it difficult to get his ISP to put a block on him, because he doesn't seem to have one and is probably using public terminals. He also varies his login name and fake email address, which makes it difficult to block him on my end.
Markuze has been doing this for years and years…I remember him popping up on usenet with this nonsense. We've all become somewhat inured to the crazy ranting Canadian with the Nostradamus obsession, and it's not good — at some point he's going to snap and cause harm to himself or others, and investigators will look with considerable alarm at the rising tide of hysterical threats he has been posting and wonder why no one did anything.
So let's do something now. I just need somebody with some knowledge of Canadian legalities to explain how. Suggestions about how to get the RCMP to take this nut seriously would be appreciated.
If nothing else, when my body is found beaten to death with a hockey stick, surrounded by scrawled quatrains from Nostradamus, you'll all know who was responsible and will be able to point a finger. Seriously. I don't think I'm his only declared target, and I think he's too scrambled up in the head to make the concerted effort necessary to get all the way to Morris, Minnesota (and I have mentioned him to the local police), so I'm not barricading my doors — but he has loudly announced his desire to commit mass murder. I think the innocent residents of Ottawa or Montreal (it's not clear where he lives) are in some danger.
Brain & Behavior
Comments
Posted by: Stewart Paterson | September 17, 2009 8:00 AM
This nutter got my mail address of the JREF forums and he was a real pain in the arse.
It's worse than athletes foot and jock itch when he latches hold of you, you just can't scrub him off
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | September 17, 2009 8:00 AM
Interesting. I used to get pretty regular emails from Mr. Irrelevant but they've stopped over the last month or so. He must have been saving up the crazy for this outburst.
And yes I do think it's time to get the Mounties involved. Those are real personal one on one threats.
And seriously, Depeche Mode?
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 8:05 AM
Hey PZ,
I'll ask my friend, who runs an internet hosting service, if he knows the best person to contact. When I worked with him we had direct contact with the child crimes cops, so he might be able to carve through some of the roadblocks.
Posted by: Carlie | September 17, 2009 8:08 AM
He's been doing the same on other ScienceBlogs - I noticed him on Mike the Mad Biologist yesterday. If he's spewing all over Sciblogs, Seed might want to step in wrt contacting the authorities too.
Posted by: DB | September 17, 2009 8:10 AM
Problem is that you don't know who he is. I have little doubt that if you gave them his name and or address and a list of the threats he's made the RCMP would do something. Unfortunately I doubt that same list of threats would be enough for them to investigate when all they have are a handful of unconnected IPs.
So another question would be if anyone knows a better way of narrowing down the possibilities as to his identity or location that would be something to pursue. As I said getting the RCMP around to arrest people is not that hard to do, convincing them to commit to the leg work actually investigate and track down someone based on a complaint like this would be the difficult part.
Posted by: Cronan | September 17, 2009 8:15 AM
Is the RCMP not "down" with the Intertubes?
Posted by: Kel, OM | September 17, 2009 8:18 AM
"His real name is Dennis Markuze, and he lives in Montreal, Canada." - from the dungeon pagePosted by: John S. Wilkins
|
September 17, 2009 8:21 AM
Try talking to the FBI. They'll have contacts with the RCMP and also be able to advise you. Moreover, given that he's made threats to commit a crime on American soil, he's possibly someone they can take action against themselves.
Posted by: El Guerrero del Interfaz
|
September 17, 2009 8:23 AM
If it does not work, you can alway try Garzón ;-)
Posted by: PZ Myers
|
September 17, 2009 8:23 AM
That's the problem. Go to just about any internet forum where atheists congregate, like the JREF, RD.net, various blogs, etc., and you'll find that Markuze is well known and has been harrassing them for years. I'm sure that complaints have rolled up official channels in the past, and nothing has been done. I'd like to know why. Have we just been doing it wrong? That's why I'm hoping someone can explain what hoops we need to jump through to get Canadian police to take this seriously.
I wonder...if some guy had been spending years and years trolling Christian sites, announcing his plans to murder individuals and their families, how long would that have been allowed to go on without investigation?
Posted by: Brock | September 17, 2009 8:25 AM
Great, now you've spoiled his plan, and he'll have to run you over with a zamboni instead. Ok kill you with maple leaves... somehow.
Posted by: DB | September 17, 2009 8:29 AM
I had assumed that name was a pseudonym if however it is his real name and PZ has said he's reported this guy to his local police. I think the best thing to do is to contact his local police department and have them establish contact with the RCMP branch in Montreal if the local cops take it seriously good chance the RCMP will as well, or you could just try calling them yourself.
Division Headquarters - Montréal
4225 Dorchester Blvd.
Westmount, Québec
H3Z 1V5
Telephone:
514-939-8300
or 1-800-771-5401
Fax: 514-283-2169
Posted by: Andyman | September 17, 2009 8:30 AM
I've tracked down his Facebook Page
http://www.facebook.com/people/Dennis-Markuze/723761255
Posted by: Bron | September 17, 2009 8:32 AM
Good luck, dude. He sounds like a loose screw, for sure. Stay safe.
Posted by: Umilik | September 17, 2009 8:32 AM
If memeory serves me right there is a Canadian consulate in Minnesota (at least there was when I was e/immigratin'). I would assume that most consulates have RCMP attachments. Whether they'd take this seriously enough is another question. Might be worth a try, though.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 8:35 AM
Making progress. Updates coming :)
Posted by: Walton | September 17, 2009 8:35 AM
If he lives in Montreal, then surely the RCMP won't have jurisdiction? I would think that it would fall within the jurisdiction either of the Montreal City Police or the Sureté du Quebec (the Quebec provincial police). Although the RCMP are a federal agency with jurisdiction over the whole country (similar to the FBI), my understanding is that they only fulfil local policing functions in some of the provinces; since the province of Quebec (in which Montreal is located) has its own provincial and local police forces, I would assume that they have primary jurisdiction. I could be wrong, since I don't live in Canada; but I am a massive law-enforcement geek.
Posted by: Sigmund | September 17, 2009 8:39 AM
Ive got an old address for him (or someone with the same rare name in the same city)
It was used monitor sales company.
Address:
Country: CANADA Learn more | More members from CANADA
Tel:
Fax:
Contact Person: Dennis Markuze
Mobile Phone:
Business Type: Export
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 8:42 AM
DO NOT POST CONTACT INFORMATION FOR DENNIS.
If you turn out to be posting information linking to a different individual you are contributing to the harassment of innocent people.
This could also allow anti-PZ people to harass under the guise of being pro-PZ to cause trouble for him.
Posted by: KrateKraig | September 17, 2009 8:43 AM
Wow! A violent, bat-shit crazy nut, that lives by a violent, bat-shit crazy religion, acting violently bat-shit crazy. What are the odds?
Posted by: haelduksf | September 17, 2009 8:45 AM
Those IP addresses all trace to Montréal, which means you'll want to contact the SPVM (City of Montreal Police Service) at 514 280-2121.
Cheers
-Team Canada
Posted by: MikeB | September 17, 2009 8:45 AM
From Kel's comments:
"His real name is Dennis Markuze, and he lives in Montreal, Canada." - from the dungeon page
I'd prefer to have a second line of evidence on this. This person's life could get ugly if this is not a valid connection. Be careful. What's the dungeon page?
Mike (from Ottawa)
Posted by: James | September 17, 2009 8:45 AM
You are completely right, Walton. The RCMP only polices regions without any local force themselves. PZ, you should contact the Montreal city police, tell them that you have been receiving death threats from a Montreal citizen, and provide them with documentation of what he has been doing both recently and over the past few years. That should be enough.
Their website is: http://www.spvm.qc.ca/en/nousjoindre.asp
"Emergency
In case of an emergency, call 9-1-1.
From outside Montréal, dial 514 280-2121"
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 8:46 AM
Now, does he have a fucking life?
I'm not just gonna sit here all day posting threatening shit to people if I have one.
Buddy, get some special help... You seem to have imaginary friends.
Posted by: Nathan Miller | September 17, 2009 8:47 AM
Or at least we can try and decipher the quatrains into anagrams and lead an entertaining goose chase through Morris. Sadly, this hinges largely upon Markuze's imagination and ability to spell, and we'd likely end up with badly constructed recursive death threats at the crime scene.
Posted by: Mike from Ottawa | September 17, 2009 8:47 AM
According to the RCMP Quebec division ("C Division") site "If you reside outside Canada and assistance is required in Canada, your local police can request it from the appropriate Canadian agency." so your first step would seem to be to get the police in Morris to take an interest and they'd then contact the RCMP for assistance.
From the foreign police perspective, if you can't convince your own police, who are under a positive duty to protect you, that there is a genuine problem, then the foreign police rightly would take no interest in a world of finite resources. The locals have the advantage that they can interview you and figure out whether you are on the up and up.
Here's part of s264 of the Canadian Criminal Code on "Criminal Harassment" (paras 1 & 2):
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 8:48 AM
(Oh, and yea. You definitely want to contact the SPVM, PZ.)
Posted by: Andyman | September 17, 2009 8:49 AM
I think my link is authentic - it shows up "Dennis Markuze - Montreal, QC." I mean it's no John Smith or Muhammad Chang.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 8:50 AM
My friend recommends contacting Peer1 and explaining the situation, and ask if they can narrow the location down by city so that you can contact a local precinct.
Then contact the precinct directly. If they feel that they need to escalate to the RCMP they may help you get your complaint through faster.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM
Yeeeesh! and there I was trying to push his buttons a bit on the "What kind of laws do you have over there in Australia?" thread the other arvo... :(
It's getting so hard to tell the regular nutters from the special nutters these days.
I'll ignore him now - I was fairly sure that his mind-melting powers wouldn't extend to Oz, but I'd feel so bad if I thought I had contributed to setting off some crazed maple-syrup related tragedy in another country.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 8:53 AM
I concur with Walton : you've gotta call the SQ :
Monday to Friday, 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
General number: 514 598-4141 (We accept collect calls.)
Fax: 514 598-4242
Sûreté du Québec
Grand quartier général
Direction des communications
1701, rue Parthenais
Montréal (Québec) H2K 3S7
There is also a form on the page to contact an officer or file a crime report.
Posted by: LisaJ
|
September 17, 2009 8:54 AM
Great. I live in Ottawa and am headed to Montreal this weekend... that's pretty frightening. PZ, I don't know the best way to proceed myself, but I do have some lawyer friends who work for the government here in Ottawa. I'll have a chat with them about this, perhaps they will know who is best to contact first.
This brings to mind a particular creepy Christian fundamentalist who often frequents the streets of downtown Ottawa preaching loudly and incessantly. He's definitely obsessed and not well. Sure makes me wonder. Although I'm sure there are umpteen of these nuts around here, so who knows.
Posted by: Stygian Lamprey | September 17, 2009 8:58 AM
It's definitely him on that FB page, Andyman. I followed the link on his profile to Ben Goldacre's fan page, and guess who started a thread there titled "Ben is a blaspheming liar"?
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 9:00 AM
@LisaJ
We called them Jesus Screamers when I was a kid.
There's one guy in Toronto that I've seen there every time I was in the city... over the last 20 years. Including seeing him almost every day during the period that I actually lived in the city.
That outside air must do him good. Especially since he needs to inhale a lot of it to keep yelling that crap.
Posted by: Codswallop | September 17, 2009 9:03 AM
This Markuze character may be nuts, but not in the sense that he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. He understands them well enough to conceal/change his IP addresses. A crazy person wouldn't bother.
Oh yeah, and the statement that God told him to murder you is unproven. However, the statement that God told him NOT to murder ANYONE is in Exodus. I'm just sayin'.
Posted by: djlactin | September 17, 2009 9:05 AM
One clue is the IP address marked CIDC internal use; this perhaps gives a place of employment. Unfortunately, this acronym has a number of meanings, but it restricts the field considerably. Given that Sigmund (tentatively?) identified his business as "export", two possibilities are Canadian International Development Consultants and Canadian Industry Development Council. Sic the gendarmes on him.
As for the 'correct' jurisdiction, Securite de Quebec is probably the one, although the RCMP did 'cover' for them during the Montreal Police strike of 1972(?)
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 9:05 AM
The police shouldn't need an address. It's easy to find an address with an IP. It's just a matter of contacting the relevant police department. The RCMP are the national police, yes, but Ontario and Quebec are different because they've maintained their provincial police force. So for Montreal it would be the Surete du Quebec.
http://www.sq.gouv.qc.ca/english/english-national-police-sq.jsp
So DON'T post contact info on here. You don't know who he is, how often he moves (it's September, too high volume moving month), or ho many people with the same name there are. Let the police do their job.
Posted by: Robert McClelland | September 17, 2009 9:09 AM
There's not much the police will do about it right now. There are too many idiots on the internet just being idiots for the them to take every complaint seriously. Your best approach if you're really concerned is to hire a private investigator to check the guy out. If they raise any red flags about the guy you can then take that to the police who will then take the complaint seriously.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | September 17, 2009 9:10 AM
For the people saying the RCMP doesn't have jurisdiction, wouldn't they, as a federal agency, be the ones to handle an international crime, such as threatning people in other countries? I would think the Montreal police would be less likely to have jurisdiction on a crime committed online with victims outside Canada.
Posted by: LisaJ
|
September 17, 2009 9:12 AM
#34: 'Jesus Screamers'. Love it, I'll be using that one.
Posted by: Alex | September 17, 2009 9:12 AM
There is a Team Canada. Unfortunately, it's my friend's punk band: http://www.myspace.com/teamcanada514. I'll talk to them about it, but I don't think there's much they'll be able to do. If we had a good picture of this fucker we might be able to get him.
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 17, 2009 9:13 AM
Quite. Seriously, also: don't *anyone* attempt to contact him on their own. Don't muddy this, *don't* give his defense material to allege harassment, complicate the case etc.
And as to the material trail that has to be built to tie the perpetrator properly to the acts for a criminal case, again: that's the police's business. I'm quite confident given the facts here they'll be able to find more than enough to sew it up neatly for a judge if they even take it halfway seriously, but again: that's what *they* do. If you've got information you think will help them, by all means, point it out to them--the trail is here is years long, now--there's bits in databases all over the world--I could imagine this might well be helpful...
But do it privately. And appropriately. *Not* in a comments thread on a public blog.
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 9:16 AM
For international matters concerning national security, yes the RCMP are relevant but this doesn't fall under that. As far as I know, the local police would be the relevant contact, especially if it's Quebec.
Actually, a good place to try might be the Canadian Embassy in the US. They should have information on how to report international crimes between Canada and the US. They would be more likely to be right than me. I just live here.
Btw, for the people saying they can't do anything - yes they can. This is a specific threat and this person has a documented history of escalating behaviour.
Posted by: Sigmund | September 17, 2009 9:18 AM
"Given that Sigmund (tentatively?) identified his business as "export", two possibilities are Canadian International Development Consultants and Canadian Industry Development Council."
The name comes up a lot in Google almost all relating to the same individual.
He is mentioned as a 'former computer salesman' who spams on various atheist sites. It doesn't mean I'm sure that this is the correct guy in may last post but its suspicious. I would, however, agree with Mike Wagner that it might not be a good idea to post links for the wrong person - so perhaps PZ should delete that particular post (just keep the information for your own future investigation).
Posted by: Eamon Knight | September 17, 2009 9:19 AM
This guy is a.k.a. Dave Mabus, right? He also spams the Ottawa Skeptics Forum occasionally. No threats coming our way, though. Maybe he's smart enough not to do it too close to home, where the law enforcement lines of responsibility are clearer.
Posted by: Bill | September 17, 2009 9:19 AM
Let just hope this nut has not seen the Tibetan Sky Burial video....
Posted by: BG | September 17, 2009 9:23 AM
I found this email address for him:
markuze@usedcomputershop.com.
Which leads to this business:
http://www.usedcomputershop.com/aboutus.html
A whois for that business leads to this entry:
USED COMPUTER SHOP
dennismarkuze@videotron.ca
MONTREAL, QC H4R 2L4
CA
You will note the email address in the whois entry links to one of the sets of IP Addresses you listed in the post.
Videotron is located here (crap website):
http://corpo.videotron.com/site/index-en.jsp
Posted by: Stygian Lamprey | September 17, 2009 9:24 AM
Not only has he seen the Reverse Thanksgiving, but he remarked that we atheists would be similarly devoured.
Posted by: Epinephrine | September 17, 2009 9:25 AM
I'm not sure about jurisdiction. I recently attended a talk by the RCMP on computer-based crime - it would seem that for crimes committed over the internet, they are indeed the people to contact. The talk was specific to child pornography, but the RCMP are also involved in computer-assisted crimes.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/on/prog-serv/support-soutien/itcu-gict-eng.htm
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 9:25 AM
WTF, stop posting addresses. Email them to PZ or something. But STOP posting them here.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 9:28 AM
I sent a message to the twit pretending to cheer him on, in hopes he incriminates himself :) And if it's not him, the message will make no sense and the person can discard it.
He's probably reading these posts right now anyway, but since he does seem to be exceptionally stupid maybe he will fall for it anyway.
Posted by: Bailywolf | September 17, 2009 9:29 AM
If he's posting threats from work, and has an ISP there (which would seem to be the case), then I'm sure he's violating his terms of service.
Following up through the ISP's abuse reporting process might be a reasonable step (or, it could antagonize him, and drive him out into the night, seeking vulnerable internet café and open WiFi like a bandwidth sucking nosferatu).
-B
Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | September 17, 2009 9:29 AM
Regardless of whatever contacts you're able to make with Canadian authorities, I'd contact the FBI in any case: Not only are these very specific death threats to a U.S. citizen, but the threat that your "entire university is going to be destroyed" seems to constitute a threat of a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. So quite aside from Canadian jurisdiction, I would think both FBI and Homeland Security would have a serious interest in this case.
Of course, if he's been making these kinds of threats for years and nothing's happened, they may not be considered credible. The authorities may think — and may well be right — that the threats are just the relatively harmless ravings of a self-aggrandizing lunatic.
But this kind of shit makes me nervous in any case... and don't the threats themselves constitute harrassment, even if they're not credibly likely to be carried out?
Posted by: Ben in Texas | September 17, 2009 9:30 AM
PZ, does your university have a police dept? I'd start there.
Posted by: George | September 17, 2009 9:30 AM
Are you 100% sure he's actually sending these from Canada? Perhaps he's using a proxy and is actually sending these messages from a block away. I'd contact the local police just to be sure. Plus, if he's this nutty, there's no reason to think he *won't* show up at your door.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 9:34 AM
Maybe, but the problem is that there are only two main ISP in the province of Québec so this doesn't mean that he necessarily used his own.
And I agree with those saying to stop posting personnal information : let the officers take care of it. I won't post it, but if they take a look at his facebook page, they're gonna find a picture of him, his date of birth and the name of his dog.
That would be July, 1st.
I agree : he is not only annoying. He is making death threats.
As for the right police organization, even though the RCMP may be involved, I still think the SQ is the one to contact. But I just talked to a friend who happens to be a lawyer and she told me that you could also contact your police since it is an Internet related crimes, which means that, in some cases, he could be prosecuted in US rather than in Canada since even if he is over here, the crime itself was perpetrated south of the border : the localization of the crime is US territory.
Posted by: Morbokat | September 17, 2009 9:35 AM
I declare myself a part of Team Canada (and it's like, my 3rd comment here or something).
The RCMP would be good, as would the Montréal Police. Speaking to the Canadian consulate or embassy could be helpful, you could also contact the American embassy in Canada; anything that helps bridge communications between our countries.
Finally, and it's really sad that I have to say this, but sometimes the Police do nothing (for a variety of reasons; red tape high among them). It may behoove you to contact Canadian newspapers (Globe & Mail, Toronto Star, Montréal Gazette, etc); red tape is frequently cleared when the media makes the cops look bad over it.
Posted by: Bosch's Poodle | September 17, 2009 9:37 AM
I find it extremely hard to believe that making repeated specific death threats is something the police don't care about because it's on the internet. What is this, 1986?
Posted by: Tyler Shepherd | September 17, 2009 9:45 AM
That is unfortunate, to be sure, and quite outside the law here in Canada. Too many of these types of crimes provoke no action from law enforcement due to a lack of information. However, it seems you've got plenty, and this has been a sustained effort on the part of Mr.Markuze.
Police should act, and it is indeed the local police that would be responsible for investigating and arresting this guy, but there will be all sorts of protocol issues. If I were you, I would be pressing your local law enforcement (if not, move up to state) to handle the interface with Canadian, QC, and Montreal authorities on your behalf.
Furthermore, you can take action such as asking your University to disallow his presence on site, seeking a restraining order in the courts, and keeping great records about the abuse and details you've gathered (seems you've got the last one down, but are being a little too open with that stuff).
Stay safe PZ, you'd make a hell of a martyr but you're doing great alive and it wouldn't be worth giving this maniac the satisfaction.
Posted by: Nanu Nanu | September 17, 2009 9:52 AM
Mike Wagner:
"I sent a message to the twit pretending to cheer him on"
Next time, before you do something, think of all the possible ways it can go wrong. This is a mentally unstable person and any perceived validation could be dangerous.
Also AJ Milne and Kimbo Jones are right: any outside action could seriously jeopardize any sort of legal case so the best thing to do is to send it to PZ exclusively if you think you have important information. And above all DO NOT attempt to contact the nutcase.
Posted by: Paul | September 17, 2009 9:53 AM
I'd like to amplify the warning to not attempt to contact this guy at all. There are three listing for the name "Markuze" in Montreal. One of those may be him, but also may not. If you try to contact him, you may end up inadvertantly harrassing an innocent, unconnected person. It's a bad idea.
Posted by: blueelm | September 17, 2009 9:59 AM
PZ, I'm wondering if maybe you should stop the comments here altogether and ask that any information or help be sent to you directly so as to protect you from confusion and obfuscation resulting from public comments here?
Posted by: Aquaria | September 17, 2009 10:02 AM
#50
From what PZ has said here, he feels that the local police are not taking his claims seriously, despite his efforts to enlist their help.
It would not be the first time that law enforcement looked the other way when an atheist (or other "outsider") was making the complaint.
Justice isn't blind in America; it wears a lot of filters. Funny how those filters can spot an impoverished minority's every brush with crossing the legal line, but either blocks out or tones down the crimes of well-to-do white Christians.
What does someone do when they are under threat and the local authorities do nothing? Sit there silently and wait for them to take notice?
Sometimes, you have to shame them into getting off their tax-paid asses.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | September 17, 2009 10:03 AM
PZ, you overlooked comment 68 on Thread 9.
It looks like you should consider all potentially relevant polices and the embassy or consulate. Maybe one of them will take it seriously…
The explicit death threats are new, aren't they?
Posted by: Stephen P | September 17, 2009 10:04 AM
But obviously (at least I hope it's obvious) only after the police have had a reasonable period of time to act and failed to do anything.
Posted by: Aquaria | September 17, 2009 10:04 AM
Argh. That was supposed to say 59, not 50.
Posted by: John Pieret | September 17, 2009 10:06 AM
Crap. The nut showed up at my place a couple of days ago and left one of his "old style" threats, to which I commented that he had "perpetrated the single least threatening death threat in the history of the species."
I hope that didn't cause him to escalate. Lesson to be learned: do not engage nuts on any level.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 10:07 AM
Oh it was carefully worded neither to make any sense to an unrelated individual, or to inspire excitation in Captain Whackypants. Just enough to feed that ego of his, as he seems the bragging type.
Posted by: Bill from MN | September 17, 2009 10:07 AM
Shouldn't you just contact the local police and give them all the information you have? Then it would be their job to get in touch with the RCMP in Montreal. I'm sure they have channels of communication like that. I think you said you have made mention to them, but to what extent?
It's easy enough these days for police to track down IP addresses. HEck I can do a TRACERT in DOS to at least show you the pathit takes to get to those IP address location. From there it's a simple lookup, through various agencies, of who has those addresses reserved.
Posted by: James Sweet | September 17, 2009 10:11 AM
I dunno, I think we should consider the accomodationist viewpoint here. Rather than flaunting our opinion that these terroristic threats are illegal, we should acknowledge that perhaps Markuze's faith IS compatible with the law. After all, many religious people have been known to obey the law, so there's proof of the compatibility right there.
Rather than arrest Markuze, we should try to educate him, that it IS possible to harbor murderous faith-based intentions and still obey the law.
Oh wait. Arrest the fucker. Geezus, I'd be scared shitless....
Posted by: Astrocock | September 17, 2009 10:11 AM
The provinces and territories with the exception of Ontario and Quebec do not have their own provincial police forces. Ontario has the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) and Quebec has the Surete du Quebec (SQ).
If I were in your moccassins, I would first get in touch with the Morris police and ask them what courses of action you can take. Give them some of the information here. If it appears they are just sitting on their asses, start getting in touch with the Canucks.
Make noise about it. I would start with the Canadian Consulate General in Minneapolis and then get in touch with the Surete du Quebec.
I'm (relatively) new here and have been a lurker up until now, so I have no idea what kind of threats this guy has made. But I believe I read something about blowing up your university which is terrorism. If that's the case, it would probably be better for you to take it to the FBI or Canada's CSIS for investigation. They'd likely take it a lot more seriously if you include the threat to blow up UMM.
They might just view the threats against you and your family as the ramblings of a deranged lunatic. They'll probably view them as harmless as it's over the Internet and this guy is hundreds of kilometres away, over an international border. I think the threat to blow up the university would definitely get their attention and this is what you should emphasize to the authorities.
Posted by: Stephen P | September 17, 2009 10:12 AM
I see that a poster on atheistfoundation.org.au on 5th April claims to have his address. No idea how reliable that claim is, but it might just be another lead.
Posted by: MorboKat | September 17, 2009 10:13 AM
Yes, of course. There is not story if you run to the papers right off. You have to go to the papers and say "I tried, they failed, the problem persists/grows".
Posted by: Michel Poisson | September 17, 2009 10:15 AM
I'm from Montreal. The RCMP has a Computer Crimes unit (pretty efficient too) and they normally handle that kind of activity. I'm not sure about police protocols between Federal (RCMP) Provincial (Sureté du Québec) and municiapl (SPVM - Service de police de la ville de Montréal). I think a contact with both your local police and RCMP would trigger some action on the part of Canadian authorities.
Montreal has had a few 'nutcases' events and the police here are sensitive to these criminals. Best of luck!
Posted by: firemancarl | September 17, 2009 10:18 AM
Sweet baby jebus! What is it with these fundies and their bat shit crazy wackaloonery?
Posted by: Astrocock | September 17, 2009 10:19 AM
Astrocock: Proud member of Team Canada, Northern Ontario Squadron! :)
Posted by: Capital Dan | September 17, 2009 10:21 AM
Yeah, Mike. Egging on a fucking lunatic is the "perfect" thing to do.
Sheesh...
Posted by: Dire Lobo | September 17, 2009 10:26 AM
Has it not dawned on all of you "Please don't contact him" people and all of you "Let the police handle it" that PZ choose to post this publicly on his web site for a reason?
Additionally, have you seen PZ comment on this idea in the thread? He commented earlier in the thread, so we know he is reading and keeping on top of this discussion. Why has he not chimed in to say "Yeah, don't contact the guy, just send me what you find".
I think its a tricky question, and I can see the wisdom of your advice - but PZ seems to feel otherwise. I can also see why. He may feel that standard channels are not working, and he wants to fight back the way this guy understands, online.
PZ - please, tell us what you are thinking here - do you want your minions to wage an overt war on this guy, or do you just want us to feed you info privately and let you and the athorities handle it?
Posted by: Astrocock | September 17, 2009 10:29 AM
In the event of an overt war, I am prepared to supply all the maple syrup required to run our wooden tanks. And all the plaid camouflage we need.
Posted by: Roameo
|
September 17, 2009 10:30 AM
PZ is not the only one here that he has threatened. If this idiot has.. i dunno.. threatened to crucify or torture you in the last 24 hours, feel free to contact your local police department, especially if you live in canada.
Posted by: Abdul Alhazred | September 17, 2009 10:30 AM
Trackback :)
http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=25188
Posted by: Dead Men | September 17, 2009 10:33 AM
Dead Men - Southern Alberta Rangers: Special Reptile Squad.
Poisson @74 would provide the best course of action, in particular if you can provide links to the various places the nutcase has performed his 'Dance of the Macabre Stupid.'
Posted by: Victor | September 17, 2009 10:34 AM
He's been leaving hostile messages on the MN Atheists forum, as well. I've been deleting them as they pop up, but I have noticed them getting more and more violent as of late. The last one blamed us for 911 and said that we should "treated appropriately. He's usually so vague and abstract that there's not making sense of any of the nonsense he spouts out. Hopefully, he's just referring to the great leveler of Hell and not insinuating that he's the Angel of Death and getting ready to take us all out. It's so hard to tell.
Posted by: BG | September 17, 2009 10:35 AM
I don't think PZ is asking for us to do anything other than give him some information and to do otherwise is a mistake.
I don't agree that posting information found on the web here is a bad idea, BUT contacting anyone for any reason related to this thread is a bad idea and counter productive.
PZ will take the info and advice and do the best he can with it.
In no way does he say we should do anything other than provide him with information and/or advice.
Posted by: Matt | September 17, 2009 10:36 AM
I hope for your sake you have a firearm in the house. Nothing will make you lose faith in gun control quicker than a nut trying to break into your home while you are on the phone with the police.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 10:37 AM
And don't forget poutine to feed the troops...
Or maybe he just wanted some input on what course to take ? Why would it automatically means he wants you to take action ?
Or maybe he went away after half an hour to get on with his other businesses ?
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 10:37 AM
If there already was complaints about the guy to the police, I'm afraid the only thing I can say is this...
"C'est probablement un BS." He's probably just a chronic loon with mental problems on welfare. With probably nothing better to do because he's too weird to get a job.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | September 17, 2009 10:39 AM
For all those concerned about there not being a Markuze/Mabus/Mr. Irrelevant, this guy has been up to this shit for years. He's well known around these and other parts.
And he still owes me my FINISHED
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 10:39 AM
@#78 I'm not in the business of taking non-action as an indication of ANYTHING. For all we know PZ is busy atm and hasn't read any of the comments after his. There is no reason to assume that PZ approves of people posting someone's (and possibly innocent people) personal information on his blog. So unless you can read PZ's mind, how about not guessing what he is thinking and feeling?
Also, Mike: You can't possibly predict how a potentially unstable person is going to react to ANY contact.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 10:41 AM
"C'est probablement un BS."
Ça a crissement pas rapport.
Posted by: Prosthetic Head | September 17, 2009 10:41 AM
Will people please stop posting possible contact info for the lunatic on here. You may be wrong and in any case it won't help the case.. Email it directly to PZ if you think it will help.
Also, no-one contact him, that can only make problems. Let the appropriate people do their jobs.
PZ, I'd start with your local police. They will either be able to help or put you in contact with the correct people.
Posted by: AJ Milne | September 17, 2009 10:41 AM
Just quickly (work to do, what can ya do), to those opining the police aren't taking this seriously because of who's being threatened, or even that PZ is implying such a thing, or that his local authorities haven't taken it appropriately seriously for this or any other reason, I'd hardly draw any of those conclusions myself yet. Give 'em a chance, here.
Yes, this thing has been going on for years. But from what I've seen of it, the activity's been greyer than this until just very recently, in terms of criminal law. Had the police been contacted previously (we don't even know they were, though I guess you'd think someone might have thought to do so), they might have begged off or back-burnered it for reasons considerably more innocent than that. A lot of crazy shit happens on the net and in the world. They have to triage on a number of bases, including especially whether they think they can make the case, how much work it's gonna be to do that, so on. And I'm pretty sure all of those factors just changed rather significantly, and just now.
So, again, common sense, here. I had few issues myself with throwing a line or two halfway in the nutter's direction even a few days ago, but this isn't a few days ago, and it has escalated. So again, I'd say: please keep in mind a criminal case may well be pending, and everyone dot your damned i's, cross yer damned t's if you really want to help. Pretty please.
Posted by: Stephen Wells | September 17, 2009 10:43 AM
@85: Why, exactly, would PZ want a firearm in his house? Those things are for _killing people_, and I don't think PZ wants to do that.
Posted by: MrFire | September 17, 2009 10:43 AM
Getting smooshed by 1-ton crate of Canadian bacon would be surely be more fitting!
[/gallows jest]
Posted by: catta | September 17, 2009 10:44 AM
As glad as I am at the general levelheadedness: some people have apparently not noticed how pervasive this guy is, and what a dinosaur-like troll (when PZ mentions Usenet, that means he's been around ever since - not that he took a break at any point in between). Yes, we are utterly, completely sure about his real name, and we know for sure that he is in Canada. He has been trolling the skeptical side of the interwebs for aeons. When I first saw him turn up here, I was vaguely surprised/amused -- I remembered him from years and years ago, spouting the same stuff on other forums, over and over. Most notably of course the JREF. He's even made it to snopes for some reason, probably because he was offended by their stance on Nostradamus.
So, having read his insane ramblings for years, I definitely agree that this is a massive increase in lunacy and threat. He used to be content with linking his depeche mode videos and incoherent screeds about the JREF Million Dollar challenge. Yes, over and over again -- but that was mostly it. The threats quoted by PZ are in his style, and they signal a shift in attitude from argumentative to threatening.
It has always been obvious that Markuze is mentally ill, but at this point, get the police involved. He is very clearly becoming a danger to himself and others. Contacting him is a very, very bad move though, not only because he's unstable and it would be better if he were stopped without any interference, but also because you can't get rid of him. Do not touch, and take it seriously.
You're right about the Internet Cafes too, PZ. Markuze himself was complaining about having been kicked by (yet another) ISP at some point -- after that he was literally spamming by wandering from Cafe to Cafe.
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 10:44 AM
@BDN: #90 Relax. I was being vague, generalistic and common. This isn't a french board afterall so why would I write a complete description in french? Follow the more elaborate description in english.
If he posts threats so much, he certainly doesn't have much of a life.
Posted by: Paul Lundgren | September 17, 2009 10:45 AM
FBI's Minneapolis, (612) 376-3200.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 10:45 AM
The reality of things is that if the users don't do most of the legwork, it's likely that very little will be done. The police are very lazy in these situations. Remember, they're not exceptionally attentive in the cases of people who are threatened by someone who has an actual history of violence against a person.
Anyway, a simple verification that PersonX is linked to the posts isn't the end of the world. Saying "Wow, you're really kicking PZ's ass" in a message is not likely to inspire him to load up with weapons and drive down to start a killing spree. On the other hand it might have him say "Yeah, I love making these guys lives hell." thus confirming identity all the more faster. Cut out the leg work for the cops and they're more likely to move *as long as you don't do anything illegal yourself* like *harassing* the person or persons at the contact info above.
Posted by: chrisD | September 17, 2009 10:49 AM
Oh, please, not this again!
I suppose it would be ethically superior to knife in self-defense rather than to use a gun?
/*just wanted to get the ball rolling on this one*/
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 10:52 AM
Mike, seriously, you *cannot possibly predict* what an unstable person's reaction will be. It is meaningless to speculate about what he will likely do and what he is unlikely to do, because *you don't know what that is*.
Posted by: Quidam | September 17, 2009 10:54 AM
Uttering threats is a serious crime in Canada even if the threatened person is not in Canada. I would suggest contacting a Canadian Lawyer.
No doubt his defense would be that he did not intend them to be taken seriously, however given the repeated and wide-spread nature I would think that would not stand up. But IANAL.
I would also think that the US border control would be interested in preventing him from crossing the border.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 10:55 AM
Yet people constantly respond to him when he posts?
Why the hypocrisy people?
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 11:01 AM
Yeah, sorry, it's just that my "bande-de-maudits-BS"-meter tends to start up quickly and your first sentence sounded quite stereotypical and it may have blinded me. Sorry, didn't mean to be that harsh.
Yes, he's probably mentally ill, but he can be "functionnal" and there are plenty of jobs that allow people to be posting frequently on the internet. Anyways, I fail to see what the fact he is on welfare (or not) has got to do with anything. And you cannot jump from "If there already was complaints about the guy to the police, I'm afraid the only thing I can say is this..." to "He's probably just a chronic loon with mental problems on welfare. With probably nothing better to do because he's too weird to get a job." In the past, he was harassing people. Now, he threats them.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 11:05 AM
" Now, he threats them."
Way to go! Threatening is the word...
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 11:09 AM
I just don't see what kind of job he'd have where his administrator would allow him to spend all his time sending death threats to people on forums... Unless he's like a basement tech guy no one gives a damn about like the IT crew.
I know it's death threats and all, but he's in montreal. What is he gonna do, fly to florida (I saw him in the JREF comments..) and then minnesota to bomb PZ and Randi?? If there was complaints to the police already, it's probable that's why they didn't do anything.
I'm starting to feel some pity for the guy.
Posted by: Eric MacDonald | September 17, 2009 11:11 AM
Here's the address of an RCMP webform. I think if you copied the note you have written above onto the form it would get some attention. The RCMP would, I think, take this kind of threat, especially having reached this decibel level, seriously.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cont/comment-eng.htm
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate | September 17, 2009 11:12 AM
Somehow, not terribly amusing. Seriously, Professor, get a handgun. Hopefully it'll gather dust, but 1 never knows.Posted by: MrFire | September 17, 2009 11:12 AM
Doesn't that depend on what you mean by 'gun control'? I have no problem, personally, with a responsibly-owned firearm capable of incapacitating an intruder. A blood-n-guts splattergun, not so much.
Posted by: Walton | September 17, 2009 11:16 AM
Not quite true - Newfoundland and Labrador has the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary (RNC), although they also contract with the RCMP to patrol some areas.
OK, I'll shut up now... my obsessive law-enforcement-geekness is showing... :-)
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 11:16 AM
You're right, but he could work part-time. Or maybe he owns his little company.
Well, you're again right about the fact that he's probably not going to act. But no one knows for sure. And he obviously needs help. If nobody does anything he could hurt other people closer. Why wouldn't he burst in McGill's or UdM (or the other ones) biology department ?
Posted by: travc | September 17, 2009 11:28 AM
File a report with the FBI and then contact your congressional Reps asking them to put a bit of pressure on the FBI to take it seriously. I know nothing about Rep. Peterson, but Sen. Klobuchar could be really helpful given her background.
Oh, and Franken would probably get a kick out of being able to help out the famed atheist firebrand ;)
I'm really serious... This is one of the things your reps in congress are actually for. Given the international aspect, I'd say "supposed to do" actually.
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 11:29 AM
@BDN: It's a possiblity he'd strike something closer, but we're getting into the realm of the extremely small minority of folks who actually do violent acts. I'm not sweating too much about that. There's a possibility anyone around you could suddenly snap.
I can't say I'd discourage PZ from complaining to the police though. At least that'd open a file on the guy's case.
Posted by: Puck | September 17, 2009 11:33 AM
I should think that the best course of action would be for SciencBlogs as an entity, and PZ's head of security at the University, be the ones to file complaints to the various police organizations, both USA and Canada.
PZ, and any other ScienceBlog bloggers who have been threatened, should be witnesses to the complaints filed.
Y'all be careful. Mr Wacky Pants may be all blow and no snow, but it's not worth the chance, especially since he's escalating. He sounds like he's reached a point where he could take out his frustration on some innocent bypasser, so it's a good idea to pursue this *now*. It's not just those he's threatening that could be in danger.
Posted by: BdNf | September 17, 2009 11:34 AM
Of course. I just think that he really needs help (for his own well-being too) and he doesn't seem to be getting it. If it raised awareness among his friends and family, whom may not know about it, it would already be worth it.
Posted by: Joseph L. | September 17, 2009 11:35 AM
More IP addresses for this kook were recorded by another blogger here:
http://www.atheistforums.com/dennis-markuze-aka-david-m-ordf-bus-wanks-his-wittle-weenie-t11624-90.html
Posted by: John M | September 17, 2009 11:36 AM
# 85
I read somewhere that most householder firearm deaths result from people getting shot with their own weapon. Something like the Aussie statistic concerning venomous snakes - big proportion of the annual human toll is due to people trying to kill the snake. If only bullfighting were like that :-)
Posted by: Susan | September 17, 2009 11:46 AM
This happened in my family, and you're wrong. The first thing the home invading thugs loaded into their van were all of my father's guns. The loaded weapon my Dad had by his bedside did no good whatsoever, since they woke him up with a loaded gun to his head. Fortunately, he didn't do anything stupid and everyone's still alive. The police did their work, caught the guys and they went to jail. And all of my siblings, especially those who were in the house at the time, are vehemently pro gun control.
Posted by: Nick | September 17, 2009 11:46 AM
PZ, you need to moderate these comments and get rid of the contact info that's been posted here. The internet can do ugly things with a person's personal info, and there's no way to be sure that the names or contacts posted in this thread are the guy you're looking for. Innocent until proven guilty, right?
Posted by: Matt Penfold | September 17, 2009 11:46 AM
I recall alcohol plays a role as well. Nothing like being male, macho, drunk and having venomous snakes nearby for getting into trouble
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 11:48 AM
From the atheist forum's link provided by Joseph L., it seems that he has already been banned by ISPs multiple times and is now just using cyber cafés so complaining directly to Vidéotron or Bell would be of no use.
Posted by: Curlew | September 17, 2009 11:53 AM
His facebook page doesn't appear to be reachable , although it was a few minutes ago.
He must be going to ground.
Posted by: Jeffrey E. | September 17, 2009 11:55 AM
Don't contact the guy.
The police will want a clear record of the threats that he has made and contact information.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 11:56 AM
No, it's still up.
Posted by: MikeM | September 17, 2009 12:02 PM
Not an authority on Canadian laws, regardless of how much time I've spent in BC, but just wanted to add that PZ is doing the right thing by publicizing this so loudly. You just know there's someone out there who has thought, "You know, that Ray Clark always seemed a little off to me...", but then never did anything about it.
By saying, "Here's the deal: Markuze is a nut job" and posting as many details as he has, he's actually doing something unusual. Few of use would do what PZ's doing here. And, yeah, Maruze is as sick as Clark, maybe sicker. Believe it or not, they can do something about that (in many cases).
It's hard for me to believe that Canada doesn't have something about like our FBI. If they do, my gut tells me that's who he should contact. That's my own WAG.
Posted by: Souljacker | September 17, 2009 12:05 PM
"see, the entire university is going to be destroyed because of blaspheming PZ..."
While I don't condone the violent tone of this email I have to agree that blaspheming PZ is a serious crime. Much more so than blaspheming Jesus or Santa or one of those guys.
Posted by: Seifer | September 17, 2009 12:09 PM
Sorry Susan, but here is why you can't use personal experience as a reason to call someone wrong on gun control. Some guy broke into my Grandpa's house with a gun about 15 years ago. It was the fact that my Grandpa had a handgun and chased the guy out that probably saved his life. So because of this my whole family is all about people's right to protect themselves by owning handguns. ChrisD is right, there is nothing morally superior about choosing not to own a handgun for protection.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | September 17, 2009 12:11 PM
Susan (@117):
I'm with you. When my childhood home was burgled (thankfully, while we were out; the notion of being the victim of a home-invasion robbery terrifies me), the only thing taken, other than a cigar box full of old silver dollars, was my father's revolver (a relic of his Air Force days, which I didn't even know he had) and a box of ammo. Plenty of other easily fencible things — jewelry, silver tableware, TVs and radios, small appliances — were left behind. I don't pretend to have real data on this point, but I recall reading somewhere that a large percentage of the guns used in crimes were originally bought legally and then stolen from their legitimate owners.
Likewise, I don't claim to have statistics for this point, either, but my understanding is that guns intended for home defense are far more likely to be involved in an accidental shooting of a family member or innocent bystander than to be used successfully in defending the home. I know (and this is admittedly anecdote rather than data) that my grandfather came within a gnat's whisker of shooting my grandmother one night when she'd gone out to the (disconnected) laundry room after he was asleep, and woke him up coming back into the house. The both of them seemed to think it was a real funny story; I never did.
Posted by: Curlew | September 17, 2009 12:11 PM
Maybe his page is being overloaded , but
http://www.facebook.com/people/Dennis-Markuze/723761255 (#13 @ Andyman)
is coming up not found for me, whereas it was OK a while ago
Posted by: raven | September 17, 2009 12:11 PM
PZ, forward your hard copy information and suggest possible action to Homeland Security USA and/or the FBI.
They control the borders. They keep lists in computer data bases. He needs to get on a Do Not Admit to the USA List. The criteria and threshold to get on these lists is low.
That way he won't be able to cross the border. I'd like to think if he was in the USA, he would have already been picked up. Death threats over the internet are felonies and there are many people in prison doing time for this. Plus Homeland Security has a huge budget and little to do.
The escalation is a bad sign. This guy is so crazy and miserable he has nothing left to lose.
Posted by: Colin Fox | September 17, 2009 12:20 PM
PZ, I'll talk to a friend of mine who is a police officer, I'm sure I can get some information on who to contact up here in Canada.
-Stay safe man.
Posted by: dogemperor | September 17, 2009 12:22 PM
It may have been mentioned before, but (as I'm aware from experiences I've seen with network abuse and particularly kooks who liked to threaten across the US/Canadian border) at least as of the 90s--and likely now--there is at least a memorandum of understanding between the FBI and RCMP (in that if a Canadian national is targeting a US person, or vice versa, the FBI and RCMP can exchange evidence, affidavits, and warrants for arrest, etc.)
And yes, even though the fellow is in Montreal (PZ, please feel free to contact me via email regarding this), the RCMP *may* be involved just on account this goes across international borders and the RCMP is the closest thing Canada has to a federal police force. (Contacting Montreal and Quebecois authorities, as well as relevant local authorities in your area, may be helpful as well.)
Posted by: Black Jack Shellac | September 17, 2009 12:22 PM
This guy's obviously a nutter, but it would be prudent to take his threats seriously. The RCMP would be the appropriate contact in Montreal for an international computer crime, I know they handle computer crimes related to identity theft for good reason. I'd be surprised if the FBI wouldn't open a case for you though, they'd be more responsive than a bunch of campus cops.
Posted by: Roger Stanyard | September 17, 2009 12:24 PM
One obvious way to get to the bottom os this is to arrpocah his alledged employeers, the second hand computer company.
All you have to do is ask whether Dennis Markuze is the same person as the Dennis Markuze employed by the company.
If it is, then there is a strong possibility that he has used company time and/or equipment to issue the death threats.
It will then be in their ball court to deal with it.
If it is the one and same person, the company will go apeshit. No employer wants someone so potentially damaging to sales to be in the payroll. If they've got any wits, they will bring in pyschiatric conselling for him before showing him the door and calling in the police.
Remember, this company claims to be an exporter so if the two are one and the same person, it will do big damage to their efforts in the USA.
Posted by: Cary | September 17, 2009 12:25 PM
Let's not take this into a gun control debate.
If PZ thinks he should have a firearm, let the man get a firearm. If he thinks he is better without, let him be without.
The point is, firearm ownership is a choice, one that should not be taken lightly, and nobody should push anyone in one direction or the other.
We can come up with mountains of anecdotal evidence on both sides, how guns have saved lives, or how guns were entirely useless.
To bring us back on subject, I have no connections to Canada but I hope you can get someone to at least investigate this guy and to make sure these threats aren't real and this guy is just an "internet loon".
Posted by: Dead Men | September 17, 2009 12:25 PM
@124 - The RCMP is sort of a combined Police Force/FBI in Canada.
Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | September 17, 2009 12:33 PM
Wonder what 4chan would do with him...
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 12:38 PM
@MiketheInfidel: EEP! STOP! You'll doom us all!
Posted by: Souljacker pt2 | September 17, 2009 12:45 PM
@Susan (#117)
I'm sorry to say it but your dad took the wrong lesson away from that whole experience. The lesson there is, 'Don't keep a loaded firearm in your bedside cabinet. Keep it under your pillow with the safety off so you can get the jump on the bastards'.
Posted by: BG | September 17, 2009 12:46 PM
To all you so concerned about posting info about the guy here answer me this:
What exactly is the difference between posting some public info found in 5 minutes on the internet and posting the guy's first and last name and the ip addresses he has been posting from? My answer is: 5 minutes and nothing else.
Posted by: MikeM | September 17, 2009 12:46 PM
Oof. Really? Are you sure "pity" is the feeling you were trying for?
Markuze is going to try something. Even if his stupid plot fails after "only" visting Calgary or Morris or Florida, there's just no chance "pity" is an emotion I'll feel.
Posted by: Mike Wagner | September 17, 2009 12:48 PM
Heh, as someone who spent an entire day doing weapons drill, and the following night doing it in my sleep, I can testify that sleeping with a loaded weapon under your pillow is a BAD(tm) idea.
Your body remembers how to do things even when you're not conscious of doing them.
Posted by: Sarah | September 17, 2009 12:53 PM
You can call the National Security Information Network
1–800–420–5805
Or email them: nsin_risn@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
They say they only respond to messages related to national security or terrorism. However, if someone threatening to kill you and your family and bomb a university isn't terrorism I don't know what is.
In the meantime have the threatening message on hand and lets hope he goes back on his meds before he can do any damage.
Posted by: Draken | September 17, 2009 12:53 PM
I agree with those objecting to posting any identifying information on Markuze. Identity theft is so easy it scares the crap out of me.
Three easy steps to misbehave on the internets without getting caught, and enjoy the process:
Find a person you feel a deep aversion to Use his/her name in a series of hateful spam postings Sit back while the police ransack your enemy's house and force him to prove his innocence.Posted by: JarrodB | September 17, 2009 12:53 PM
Look, christians are freaking insane and often homicidal. Dr. Tiller anyone? Please take these threats seriously and at least make an attempt to notify the FBI or the Montreal police. Like, today.
Posted by: Chuck | September 17, 2009 12:56 PM
There is a Canadian consulate in downtown Minneapolis. Perhaps get in touch with them?
http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/minneapolis/index.aspx
Posted by: QrazyQat | September 17, 2009 1:02 PM
He could be wandering about doing this, but my first thought was that he's using a proxy, hence the varying IPs, and probably from home.
Posted by: B'Frîs
|
September 17, 2009 1:03 PM
By the way, through personal experience I can tell you that it's not going to work if you call or email the ISPs and ask for the information of this guy. As you may well know, a subpoena needs to be issued for this type of information to be given out, unless you know someone from the inside - unfortunately, though I've worked for videotron, b2b2c and bell, that was a long time ago...
Posted by: Jefrir | September 17, 2009 1:03 PM
It may also be worth contacting local mental health services with your concerns.
Posted by: Astrocock | September 17, 2009 1:08 PM
"It's hard for me to believe that Canada doesn't have something about like our FBI. If they do, my gut tells me that's who he should contact. That's my own WAG."
Yeah. We do. CSIS.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 1:12 PM
Could be, but then, he wouldn't be that intelligent since they all seem to be in Montréal.
Posted by: Greg | September 17, 2009 1:14 PM
PZ, raven is correct, contact the FBI have the University do so also since they are also being threatened.
I'm not sure reporting him the the Canadian authorities will do much because you aren't a Canadian citizen. However because he is making threats against a public figure (you, believe it or not)and your university. This falls under the purview of the FBI, quite possibly Homeland Security too, as his threats may fall under current anti-terrorism laws.
You could contact the CSIS as well (Canadian Security Intelligence Service ~ http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca) but I think the FBI will be more helpful.
Don't be you're normal reasonable self about this, this guy sure isn't.
As for getting a firearm. There is both anecdotal and statistical evidence on both sides of this issue, but the most important thing is you. How do you feel about having a gun? How would you feel taking a life, even to save your own? I would suggest that you find and take a reputable handgun defence course before getting a gun. Use the time during the course to determine if you really want to shoot someone, because if you are getting a gun to protect yourself that is exactly what you need to be prepared to do.
Good luck, I hope this guys is just a vocal, but impenitent, nutter.
Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak | September 17, 2009 1:16 PM
I don't think attempting to educate him would be a good idea. While we can't be sure of his actual state mind, on-line he has escalated from malicious spamming, to individual death threats, to mass death threats. To me, that's a sign of instability.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | September 17, 2009 1:17 PM
Which is a reasonable fear if it wasn't for the very very long history and track record of this one kook. This isn't just a recent thing with him.
Posted by: Kimbo Jones | September 17, 2009 1:20 PM
@139: Because it might not be accurate and because a lot of people don't know how to go through those 5 minute steps so why make it easier? More importantly, it's just a dick move.
PZ should not contact his employer or anyone else this guy knows, nor should anyone here. The only appropriate people to contact in this situation are the authorities.
Posted by: Aster | September 17, 2009 1:24 PM
Perhaps some networking will help to answer your question? This person seems to live in Montreal, and so the Association Humaniste du Québec will probably know about him or, at least, how best to approach the problem(http://assohum.org/). Good luck. He apparently lives too close to me for comfort...
Posted by: Joe B | September 17, 2009 1:32 PM
Look out PZ! The e-mails are coming from INSIDE YOUR HOUSE!
/urban legend'ed
Posted by: MikeM | September 17, 2009 1:39 PM
@139, my guess here is that this info will be helpful, because catching Markuze will probably require an old-fashioned stakeout. These internet cafes probably use IPs that don't change much, and they'll have surveillance cameras. Eventually, you tie times, a face, and various places together.
We're not going to solve this crime for PZ, but this information could help a stakeout effort. Hopefully PZ isn't giving us all the IP addresses, dates and times; that info shouldn't come to us, because we can't solve this crime.
Given the increasing volume of Markuze's threats, I have to think this case now has the attention of the authorities. This isn't a case where the cops are gonna roll their eyes and say, "Don't call us, we'll call you" anymore.
Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 1:52 PM
While I tend to agree with those saying not to post personal info, if this is a case of identity theft, someone has gone to great lengths for so little. He even has a Flickr account that seems to confirm he is from Montréal and he has already posted on forums using a Concordia University e-mail address.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 17, 2009 1:54 PM
Makes me think of John Lennon. Please be careful.
Posted by: Andy | September 17, 2009 1:58 PM
This guy is a loon, he needs to be behind bars. I found this below here; http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/cab30e1792979c7d/201e4505aee18509?q=author:%22Dennis+Markuze%22#201e4505aee18509
"Searching for fellow suicidal anarchists who know how to make
bombs and have a keen interest in blowing up Federal buildings and other symbols of oppression."
Dennis Markuze
I don't think this would be taken lightly since 9/11 and Oklahoma.
Posted by: Astrocock | September 17, 2009 2:03 PM
http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/index-eng.asp
Call: To report information regarding activities which could pose a threat to national security, please call:
1-800-420-5805.
According to CSIS, what this guy is doing constitutes a threat to national security:
"The activities that constitute a threat to the security of Canada include:
* terrorism, that is, serious violence for the purpose of achieving a political, religious or ideological objective;
* proliferation of weapons of mass destruction;
* espionage;
* transnational criminal activity; and,
* foreign-influenced activity."
This falls under "transnational criminal activity" as death threats are illegal in both Canada and the US. Also the threat to blow up the university would mean CSIS would be in touch with the FBI over this.
Posted by: SC, OM | September 17, 2009 2:04 PM
I have to say, I think Canadians make fun of themselves in the coolest and most amusing way possible.
Posted by: Jadehawk, OM
|
September 17, 2009 2:06 PM
I now have visions of PZ encased in
carbonitemaple syrup.Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 2:13 PM
Trying to get revenge DURING a hockey game wouldn't make it either since it's becoming illegal to assault your opponents :
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/27772-Assault-case-against-Patrick-Roys-son-to-head-to-trial-Oct-7.html
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=capress-hockey_teen_charged-313540525&prov=capress&type=lgns
Posted by: Desert Son, OM
|
September 17, 2009 2:14 PM
Schedule's been nuts last couple of weeks and I've been unable to stop in to Pharyngula, only to get a free moment (only a moment) today and find this. Yikes!
Scary. Stay safe, PZ. This is spooky.
No kings,
Robert
Posted by: Nominal Egg | September 17, 2009 2:21 PM
Tell that to Steve Moore.Posted by: BdN | September 17, 2009 2:25 PM
For the one he gave or the one he received ?
I guess the latter...
Posted by: Holydust | September 17, 2009 2:25 PM
*sees Andy's post and freaks the fuck out.*
Posted by: karl | September 17, 2009 2:31 PM
Anyone remember back in the usenet days a Canadian named Robert Trent claimed to have killed his GF's cat? A woman in the US called Trent's local cop shop and the RCMP paid him a visit:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bigfoot/part2/
(Search down on "UPDATE ON CAT-KILLER ROBERT TRENT")
A nut bag threatening the life of a professor and claims the cops can't do anything about it you would think might motivate the local cop shop to pay Markuze a visit.
(During his last flare up aimed at Randi didn't people manage to get Markuze fired from his job selling dice bags at a local D&D hobby store?)
Posted by: Michelle R
|
September 17, 2009 2:32 PM
@MikeM #140: SOME pity. Let's not push it. He's pathetic, it's obvious. It's normal to feel some shaking head pity at folks like that.
I don't think he'll try anything. He's not the first nutcase to go around making spamming death threats on the internet. But like I said, a complaint's a good idea.
And don't forget: pity is sometimes one of the worst things you can feel for someone.
Posted by: Thuktun | September 17, 2009 2:43 PM
I agree with the pointers to the FBI. Time to call them and let them coordinate with Canadian officials; they'll have the right numbers to call, guaranteed.
Posted by: cousinavi | September 17, 2009 2:45 PM
Peez!
He MIGHT be a Canuck, but you know (or ought to) that we're far more onside than off.
You keep slandering hockey sticks like that, you might find it difficult to obtain top quality maple syrup.
Just sayin'...
That ain't a threat, you understand. But if you keep referring to ONE idiot, repeatedly, as "Canadian" (even if that's true) it amounts to painting the Queen Mum a soccer hooligan.
I'm sure Randall Terry must have threatened you now and again...but you don't identify him and his as specifically American, eh?
Perhaps you're envious of our harsh winters, or delicious poutine...our relative lack of religiosity in matters of politics...
Whatever it is, I invite you to play fair. Don't make me crosscheck you.
/five minute major - high sticking
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood | September 17, 2009 3:30 PM
Dennis the Menace indeed (at a stroke, I have confused every non-Brit on the thread with an obscure UK comic strip reference. Now that's economy of language.)
So, this wackaloo believes in 'Christian love' so strongly that he likes to threaten to kill people who do not believe in his preferred brand of delusional woo?
Why am I not surprised?
Cretins like this are just one of many reasons to reject perfidious religion.
He is probably just a nut who likes to replace any kind of sexlife with issuing death threats online. Talk about pathetic. The words 'get a life' seem wholly inadequate in this case.
Unfortunately, it is also possible that this fruitcake is more than just a particularly repugnant troll. One day he may try to act out his holy mass murder fantasy. It really would be best all round if he receives the help he manifestly needs at the earliest opportunity.
I would recommend electro-shock for dear Dennis, but I hear that technique has been discredited . . .
Posted by: payaso del mar | September 17, 2009 3:33 PM
PZ, even if he's sending from Canada, if he sends it through the US channels of "interstate commerce", incl the internet, to someone in the US, he's subject to US jurisdiction. same theory we use to go after columbain dope barons who never have set foot here.
by my read, his threats violate Title 18 U.S.Code Sec. 875(c), an up to five year felony. if he mails any of it, it also violates 18 USC 877, which is up to 20 years. if he makes any of it conditional (i'll do this if you don't ------) with an intent to make you do or not do something, it also gets into extortion statutes, incl 18 USC 875(b)(up to 20 years), 876(b)(same).
i'm just a stupid lawyer who don't know beans about some of the science you and the commenters discuss (altho i sure enjoy learning, or trying to), but i'm dead serious about this and am reading the statutes as i write. read 18 USC 875, 876, and 877, then strongly consider making a complaint to your local FBI office. losers like this need to be shut down.
losers like this are also why a raving liberal like me owns and can use firearms......ain't the balance of terror lovely? if i'd been Dr Tiller....oh well
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
|
September 17, 2009 3:35 PM
If I may drop a name here, does anyone remember Theo van Gogh? Murdered or rather butchered by a religious nut.
Posted by: Gruesome Rob | September 17, 2009 3:38 PM
That's called a Joe Job
As others have said, there's enough of a pattern that this is unlikely to be one.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood | September 17, 2009 3:42 PM
SQB @ 175;
I remember that case. He was a Dutch filmaker who created a film based on the writings of a former muslim woman who now serves as a member of the Dutch parliament. I forget her name now, but I know that she lives under police protection.
Van Gogh was stabbed to death on the street by an Algerian islamic fundamentalist who felt that the film insulted islam. The truth, it appears, is such a threat it is necessary to kill those who espouse it. It was a dark day for the principle of free speech in Holland and broader Europe. As was the murder of Pim Fontaine.
Posted by: SC, OM | September 17, 2009 3:45 PM
*power play*
Vermont.
*goal*
:P
Posted by: MikeyM | September 17, 2009 3:50 PM
If that Leica deal had worked out for me, I could take his picture.
Posted by: Badger3k | September 17, 2009 4:00 PM
Mike Wagner @ 141 - oh, yeah. My brother slept with his under the pillow (mine is near my bed within reach), and one night he ended up shooting it - he woke up when the gun went off, and the bullet hit his sheets about an inch from his foot.
Posted by: Blue-eyed Videot | September 17, 2009 4:14 PM
The gist of the matter is this: An American university has been threatened with a bombing. A professor at that university and his family have also received death threats from the same person/persons.
Do not pass go.
Go directly to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Minneapolis, Phone (612) 376-3200.
These threats should not be taken lightly!
Posted by: phantomreader42 | September 17, 2009 4:28 PM
Time to activate Team Canada!
Am I the only one who read that title and thought of Team America: World Police?
America, fuck yeah!
Comin' again to save the motherfucking day, yeah!
Wonder what Team Canada would look like in that context? Much more use of "eh", possibly riding puppet moose into battle...
Posted by: Drosera | September 17, 2009 4:36 PM
@ 177,
The name of the 'former muslim woman' is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the killer was Moroccan, and Pim Fontaine should be Pim Fortuyn.
Posted by: Drosera | September 17, 2009 4:43 PM
@ 177,
A further correction: Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no longer a member of parliament. She is currently a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, a neocon think tank.
Posted by: ckitching | September 17, 2009 5:35 PM
That FSMDude fellow on youtube got a visit from the RCMP based lies and nonsense, so it might just be a matter of the RCMP dragging its feet because it doesn't want to deal with the troubles of cross-border disputes.
I think the only thing that can be suggested would be persistence with the FBI and RCMP. If his name comes up too often, they might be inclined to look into it. Otherwise, it's probably just another anonymous internet tough guy to them, and not worth the effort to identify and track down.
The RCMP are responsible for both national, provincial and even a fair bit of urban law enforcement, so there isn't really any other organization to contact. If he were to ever act on his threats, then maybe CSIS might be interested, but unless there was some evidence of him planning something big, I think they'd probably still leave it to the RCMP.
Posted by: Liz | September 17, 2009 7:31 PM
I've asked a (Canadian) police officer friend about this; as has been mentioned already by others, the best course of action would be to inform homeland security. The Montreal police will most likely not take this seriously, but should he ever try to enter the US he will be at least very inconvenienced at the border if not denied entry altogether. And you'll have the added satisfaction of ruining any of his future US vacations.
Posted by: dc | September 17, 2009 7:31 PM
Hey PZ... where the "Amazed" comments coming from some of the same IP addresses?
Just curious....I know ..I know ...it's a vice.
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
|
September 17, 2009 7:38 PM
Michigan. (From Vermontville, of course)Posted by: speedwell | September 17, 2009 7:44 PM
Folks, you know that we need not leave this up to Dr. Myers to do all by himself. Since a crime is being committed, it's a public matter. Anyone can report it.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood | September 17, 2009 7:45 PM
Drosera;
Thanks for the update. Its been a few years siunce I heard about that case.
Posted by: PZ read this, solid information as to what to do. | September 17, 2009 8:31 PM
The reality is that you are receiving the threat in your home town.
You will need to contact your local police. Make a complaint and the officer who takes your report, will forward your complaint to their general assignment detectives office.
From there, you will have to be the police squeeky wheel, assuring that the assigned detective takes the case seriously.
The det. will be facing a lot of work, as she will need to write international warrants, obtaining the owners information attached to the IP addresses. IP address warrants within Canada, are a piece of cake, but this is an American law enforcement agency actually writing a warrant for IP address information from Canada.
Once the detective receives the actual address of where the IP belongs, detective will then contact the local police where the IP address is located.
From there, the canadian local police ( likely a municipal police service ) will assist their american counterparts in actually completing the door knocks and in person inquiries.
PZ I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. Go to your local police, do not let them brush you off or tell you that you've nothing to worry about.
You are being threatened, the police have a duty to investigate.
Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | September 17, 2009 8:47 PM
well, on the bright side the nutcase is now claiming that he's mailing the FBI himself. if he really does spam them with threats, that would solve the problem :-p
Posted by: shoshidge | September 17, 2009 9:05 PM
I'm just pleasantly suprised to hear he isn't Albertan.
Posted by: Steve_C | September 17, 2009 9:21 PM
Well here's an interesting idea.
If we can get the FBI to find the emails freaking out about UMM and PZ.
They may find it very easy to get this guy.
It sounds like a good idea to go to the local police. It's their job to see that it works its
way up the law enforcement ladder and see that it's resolved.
Posted by: Susan | September 18, 2009 12:40 AM
@ Seifer
But that's not what I did. I said he was wrong about such a horrible experience making someone anti-gun control. It didn't. It made us strongly pro-gun control.
Posted by: palochka | September 18, 2009 1:05 AM
@ Codswallop, #35
What if he had some kind of paranoia disorder? Then he would bother.
@ djlactin, #36
Unfortunately, CIDC appears to be merely the (former) name of the ISP associated with that IP. Observe: www.cidc.net
Posted by: PZ Myers (NOT) | September 18, 2009 1:33 AM
Ths s yr mn. Y wr st p.
[impersonating other posters, especially impersonating me, is grounds for immediate banning. Knock it off, jerk. -- pz]
Posted by: Teflonmonkey | September 18, 2009 1:48 AM
Hi PZ, just some feedback, the code on this page is really screwy, firefox is putting the posts into the pane on the far right, showing only two or three at a time. Explorer is doing this whole double image super slow load thing. Opera thinks there are no posts at all. Not sure why, but the your other pages appear fine, , the net here is fine, it's only on this page where the problems are, I think the problem may be on your end.
Posted by: Brian | September 18, 2009 3:25 AM
Every scientist has to deal with religious nuts, at least the law is on your side. I say put a stop to it, call the authorities and demand to speak to someone who can help. We've got your back :), I would like to see more religious sociopaths behind bars.
Posted by: bladesman | September 18, 2009 3:46 AM
Very disturbing. I hope they find out who this nutbag is and get him meds and help. I'm remembering that PZ gave out some directions to his house a while ago, didn't he? Given loons like this, that's a very brave PZ.
Posted by: Eupraxsopher
|
September 18, 2009 3:52 AM
RE: Display.
I have the same issues with Firefox - truncates comments and displays last few on the side. Chrome works perfectly though.
It's time that this person be charged with uttering threats and taken into custody for evaluation. I agree about getting the FBI's opinion on what you should do, PZ. It may be that they can talk to the RCMP about having this person taken in for questioning.
Posted by: Stephen P | September 18, 2009 3:58 AM
In Opera you can read the posts on this page by switching styling off. The HTML is apparently OK, but the styling is screwed.
Posted by: Arnd | September 18, 2009 5:06 AM
He seems to work in a shop for used computers.
http://www.recycle.net/trade/aa781479.html
"Sells bulk used computer equipment.
Used Computer Shop
Montreal Quebec
Canada
Contact : Dennis Markuze
For Further Information,
ENTER YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND CLICK GO : "
Posted by: Persporea | September 18, 2009 5:07 AM
I'm assuming and hoping that PZ's silence is because he is now in contact with the appropriate authorities and acting under their guidance.
Sending death threats via electronic means is no different to sending them by paper mail and should be taken equally seriously. I sincerely hope this individual is prosecuted and imprisoned for a very long time. As for meds and psych help, I suspect they will not solve his issues. But we will all feel a lot better with this person locked away with a number of libidinous 200lb convicts.
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
|
September 18, 2009 5:59 AM
There is a Dutch saying that a barking dog does not bite, but I wouldn't be so sure in this case, especially with Andy's search results on Google groups. The murder of van Gogh shows that religious extremists (or extremists of all kinds, as the murder of Fortuijn shows) may resort to murder if they feel threatened by views conflicting with theirs.
However, neither the murderer of van Gogh nor the murderer of Fortuijn had made any threats beforehand, which brings us to the corollary that biting dogs do not bark. So while I do think PZ should report these threats to the relevant authorities, he should probably be more alert to those who haven't made any threats.
Posted by: clarification | September 18, 2009 7:06 AM
Just to clarify, as there's lots of incorrect advice on this post.
1) This has NOTHING to do with the RCMP, especially in Quebec.
2) This is the sole responsibility of Myers's local police service, as the threats are being received in his home town.
3) Myers's local police service will have to receive the complaint, they will have to investigate and they will have to write all of the warrants to get the IP addresses from the ISp's.
4) Then the local police service in the likely Quebec municipality ( Montreal city police) will assist with the investigation.
5) This has nothing to do with RCMP, CSIS, homeland security, FBI...nada.
6) It is 100% a local police matter, no different than if a neighbour of Myers was making the threat.
7) I repeat, the local police will commence the investigation and any charges that may be laid, will be laid by the local Canadian Police service...if the evidence is strong enough, such that reasonable grounds exist to believe a crime has been committed and there is a reasonable prospect of conviction,
8) The RCMP has zero municipal or provincial contracts in Quebec or Ontario and will not be getting involved.
Posted by: David Waldock | September 18, 2009 7:43 AM
RCMP should have an attaché at the Canadian Embassy/High Commission/Diplomatic Outpost who will be able to help. Alternatively, it's an inter-jurisdiction issue so can your local police not initiate the process and contact the RCMP for you?
Posted by: Hurin | September 18, 2009 8:10 AM
Nothing will make you lose faith in gun control quicker than a nut trying to break into your home while you are on the phone with the police.
--------------------------------------
On the other hand, that is exactly the kind of time where I would want control over my gun.
Posted by: xan | September 18, 2009 8:53 AM
I don't think it is a local matter. Crimes across state borders get the FBI, so an international one could conceivably involve the RCMP. There is a Canadian consulate in Mpls. That would be the first place I would call. Fortunately, if this guy really is in Quebec, then Ted Nugent is between him and you. And he's armed. To the teeth. Literally.
Posted by: Stephen P | September 18, 2009 9:36 AM
@SQB: a counter-example is Karst Tates, who made the botched attack on the Dutch royal family last April. Apparently he had made at least one (verbal) threat against them, which was ignored by the people who heard it.
Posted by: SQB (fuck death)
|
September 18, 2009 10:56 AM
Stephen, agreed, but it was a small 'bark'. I assume both Mohammed Bouyeri and Volkert van der Graaf made disparaging remarks about their victims beforehand, but neither was very prolific. Still, this guy sounds scary, especially the bit Andy dug up.
Posted by: raven | September 18, 2009 11:33 AM
Contacting the local police should be done but claiming it is their jurisdiction is just damn wrong.
Death threats and stalking over the internet are federal crimes. Markuze is crossing state lines (and an international boundary) and using public means of communication to do so. These are BTW, felonies. There are people doing multiyear prison sentences for death threats over the internet.
There are specific federal laws against this, passed in the 1990's and they are enforced. The FBI has a cybercrimes division that is in charge of internet crimes. Contact them.
PZ would be able to file for a restraining order if Markuze was in a local jurisdiction but since he is in Canada, not seeing how that would work.
Posted by: raven | September 18, 2009 11:44 AM
There is a lot on felonious death threats over the internet on google. It is better to use a search box for 2 minutes rather than sit in the dark forever.
Markuze has crossed the line under US law and would most likely be picked up and incarcerated. He doesn't belong in prison (yet), most likely in a lunatic asylum. Johnson got 37 months.
Posted by: raven | September 18, 2009 11:48 AM
Sorry, this is 100% wrong. Markuze is crossing state lines, violating federal laws, and using public means of communication. It is federal.
To achieve enlightenment, chant Om for 30 minutes and spend 2 minutes on google.
Posted by: payaso del mar | September 18, 2009 12:24 PM
Raven is 100% right. once you start sending threats across the channels of interstate commerce, it acquires the necessary federal "nexus" to become a federal offense and the FBI DOES get involved. big time. threats sent by mail are really great, cuz that gets the postal inspectors into the party, and they always love to pad their stats. my office has defended a number of such threat cases, and the US Attorney takes em seriously.
and any time one threatens use of weapons of mass destruction, which include even stuff like simple pipe bombs, one gets into stuff like 18 USCode 2332a, "Use of weapons of mass destruction", which specifically provides that sending threats to use such an item against any person or property within the US through any channel of interstate commerce (which again incl the internet) can get one up to LIFE (or the death penalty if anyone's death results). serious stuff. there's also Sec 2332b, "acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries", which expressly includes threats and can net one up to 10 years.
information is power....
Posted by: Steve_C | September 18, 2009 1:33 PM
So, Dennis. Do you work at Videotron?
Are you the owner or just an employee?
Posted by: phantomreader42 | September 18, 2009 3:00 PM
Steve_C @ #216:
I think he's more the creepy guy with the constant urine smell wanking off in the back.
Posted by: Desertphile | September 18, 2009 3:02 PM
Didn't this clown also spend time threatening James Randi? If so, you are in good company.
He sent a few emails to me before I blocked him; I assume he got my throw-away email address from the JREF forum or from my YouTube profile.
Far better to get death threats than no warning at all.
Posted by: anon | September 18, 2009 3:35 PM
Myers did in fact contact his local police, who will in turn contact the Montreal police, which is exactly what a person is to do in such a situation.
Posted by: BdN | September 18, 2009 5:37 PM
He certainly is not the owner. Videotron is part of Québécor. Pierre Karl Péladeau is the president and CEO.
Posted by: Zetetic
|
September 18, 2009 9:26 PM
@ Desertphile:
Apparently he (I'm assuming the gender from the original handle) still is making threats to Randi as well as other sites. I just saw some recent examples on Randi's site.
I agree that he does seem to be escalating in his threats. The guy apparently needs to committed and provided with treatment before it gets more serious.
Posted by: TeeDot | September 19, 2009 2:23 AM
Uttering threats in Canada is illegal.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.on.ca/utter-threats.html
"Threaten death or bodily harm
Under the Criminal Code, it is an offence to knowingly utter or convey a threat to cause death or bodily harm to any person. It is also an offence to threaten to burn, destroy or damage property or threaten to kill, poison or injure an animal or bird that belongs to a person.
Penalties
The offence of utter death threat may be prosecuted by summary conviction or by indictment. If prosecuted by indictment, the accused person is entitled to elect trial by jury and upon conviction is liable to up to five years jail. In most cases, however, the offence is prosecuted by summary conviction, requiring a trial before a lower court justice. In this case, the maximum penalty is 18 months imprisonment.
What the Crown must prove
To secure a conviction at trial, the Crown must prove that the person making the threat did so knowingly. That is, the prosecution must show that he was aware of the words used and the meaning they would convey. It also must show that he intended the threat to be taken seriously, that is, to intimidate or strike fear into the recipient. It is not necessary that the person making the threat intend to carry it out or be capable of doing so. The motive for making the threat is equally irrelevant.
In assessing whether the words constitute a threat, they must be considered objectively. The court must ask: In the context and circumstances in which the words were spoken or written, the manner in which they were used, and the person to whom they were directed would they convey a threat to a reasonable person?
A history of violence between the parties may support a finding that the words were intended as a threat. Whether or not the person making the threat has an apparent ability to carry it out when the words are spoken, his use of gestures or acts, whether the recipient of the words takes them seriously, and disparity in size between the speaker and the recipient of the threat may all be relevant to an assessment of the speaker's intent.
Conditional threat
A threat may be conditional. In 1986, the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that it was a threat when a man phoned police and said he would shoot an officer who wanted to question him if the officer did not leave his property.
Idle threats
No offence is committed, however, if a threat is innocently made. The offence is not meant to criminalize idle threats or words blurted out only in anger, desperation, bitterness or frustration. Words said in jest or in a manner that they could not be taken seriously do not constitute a threat.
Intended victim need not know of threat
To be an offence, the threat need not be made directly to the intended victim. The intended victim need not even be aware of the threat. Nor is it necessary that the person making the threat intend that it be communicated to the target of the threat. The purpose of the offence is to protect the exercise of freedom of choice by preventing intimidation.
Lawful excuse
A threat made against a trespasser may be justified. However, the property owner must first ask the trespasser to leave and give him a reasonable opportunity to do so. A person in imminent danger or distress in the face of an aggressor may be justified in making threats as an act of self-defence.
Toronto Ex-Mayor Mel Lastman
"Leave my family alone. If you don't leave them alone, I'll kill you." Former Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman reportedly uttered these words to a television reporter during a city council meeting in May 1999. It was said Lastman was angry with the reporter over a story published in a satirical magazine that alluded to the mayor's wife. Did the ex-mayor commit a crime? The answer depends primarily on whether his words were no more than an angry outburst or whether he meant them to be taken seriously. Lastman was never charged."
Posted by: Internet Threat | September 19, 2009 5:19 AM
There is some inforamtion that i would like to share here that name of the the muslim woman is Ayaan Hirsi Ali and the killer's name was Moroccan.If someone else nows about this, please tell.
Posted by: John Morales | September 19, 2009 5:35 AM
The spammer posting as "Internet Threat" is out if its league. :)
Posted by: Tim L | September 19, 2009 11:06 PM
Dear PZ,
If you are serious about this issue then please, do not, do not, do not, allow any more postings from people about this subject. Lock all the commenting rights on this post down now.
Also please contact your own lawyer with regards to this person and the way you feel, any more external interference can make this whole issue quite tricky in terms of a jurisdictional and international legal systems angle.
I understand your desire in letting people carry on as they see fit and say what they want on your blog, but in this case issues of harassment and so on are fraught. I would second the advice of many posters here who have been saying to not post any personal information on a highly visible and popular website. Please consider the possible legal implications of what you're doing to PZ in your attempts to help him.
If this is a joke then PZ you're really playing with fire here and consider the risks of what you're doing.
All I can say before this and now again is to lawyer up. Deal with it through proper channels at all times with legal representation present.
Tim L
Posted by: John Morales | September 19, 2009 11:10 PM
Tim @225, things have moved on since this was posted.
See Update on Dennis Markuze.
Pullquotes:
Posted by: aman
|
January 5, 2011 5:31 AM
Nice and informative blog good way to represents things.
Crumb rubber prices