Pharyngula

Posted by: Sclerophanax | October 17, 2009 11:52 AM

If christians were forbidden from spreading unsubstantiated rumors, wouldn't that end all christian proselytizing once and for all? Sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

Posted by: Lilith | October 17, 2009 11:59 AM

I found it very amusing that the only comment attached to the original article was from someone spouting Birther nonsense. Obviously the message of the article didn't stick with that reader.

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 12:10 PM

From the old Procter & Gamble Satanism libel

You mean Procter and Gamble isn't run by Satanists? They don't use their stars and moon logo much anymore.

The last xian rumors that gained any traction were the Obama is a Kenyan, Moslem terrorist. That had the disadvantage of being so stupid and easily disproved that it was destined for a short shelf life.

There is always the ever popular...."group X was caught abducting babies from strollers in malls and stores." Usually it is satanists but sometimes it is one immigrant group or another." I suppose these days it must be evolutionary biologists or cosmological astrophysicists.

So what is the current xian novel fantasy made up rumor? Xian fantasy rumors are like buses, there is always another one coming along.

Posted by: CalGeorge | October 17, 2009 12:11 PM

The writer should know that labeling yourself a Christian is nothing more than a convenient way to advertise your gullibility.

"Look at me, I'll believe anything!"

Posted by: ScottKnick | October 17, 2009 12:17 PM

"So, why are Christians so willing to believe unsubstantiated rumors? And more troubling, why are Christians, who should hold the highest standards of truth-telling, so eager to spread rumors—and even downright libels?"

The question is disingenuous, because the answer is perfectly obvious. The political right has been successful in wedding the notion of "Christian" and "reactionary conservative" together, so that any story that furthers the conservative agenda becomes a Christian axiom. Thus Bill Clinton is a cocaine runner, Hillary is a murderer and Barack Obama is a fascist. . .I mean, a Marxist. . .er, that is, an Indonesian citizen. . .um, make that a Kenyan citizen. . .anyway, he's definitely either a black separatist Christian or a secret Muslim.

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 12:30 PM

MAJeff:

Gay folks. We're already after their kids.

Makes sense. Gays have been promoted to the top of the demon pantheon. The long, long list of demons never changes but they get shuffled around every century ro so. Blacks and browns are now in the middle of the pack. Scientists have made a real sprint in a few decades and are battling it out for the top spot. Commies are holding up remarkably well, considering they are nonexistent.

There was a recent case in California where a gay atheist abducted a girl and held her captive in the backyard for 18 years. Oh wait, that was a heterosexual xian fundie death cultist.

PS Fundie Death Cultists really are after your kids. Always have been, always will be. Why do you think they spend most of their time trying to convert people with lies and fantasies, and complaining about laws limiting their influence in public schools?

Posted by: Sastra | October 17, 2009 12:38 PM

So, why are Christians so willing to believe unsubstantiated rumors? And more troubling, why are Christians, who should hold the highest standards of truth-telling, so eager to spread rumors—and even downright libels?

Christians don't distinguish themselves from respected secular role models because of their "truth-telling" -- they distinguish themselves from "worldly" people through the high value and respect they give to faith.

Believe, beyond the evidence. Believe, in spite of the evidence. Believe, believe, believe. This message is droned into their heads from toddlerhood. Go into any Hallmark store, and see the words "Faith" and "Believe" emblazoned on everything from pillows to wall-hangings. Go into a "Christian" store, and see if it's not just as prevalent -- more. Apparently, letting go of your head and accepting with your heart is a discipline which needs reminders.

An eagerness to trust in personal experience, search for validation, and interpret according to what one already "knows" to be true are seen, by the religious, as humble, praise-worthy character traits. They should be fostered and encouraged. Skeptical or critical thinking, on the other hand, is a negative trait. You must not want it to be true.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of what is not seen. If this is your highest value, it's not likely that you're going to be able to tell the difference between "truth-telling" -- and going off half-cocked on flimsy evidence.

Add to that the conspiracy-mindset that has to be in place in order to accept the salvation/damnation dichotomy and apply it to the world, and you've got a recipe for rational disaster.

Posted by: 1minion | October 17, 2009 12:46 PM

Yeah, I'm also amused by the ironies inherent in this. All the ludicrous "truths" they accept without question, and they wonder why their own folks are so gullible? Nothing to do with how they're raised at all, eh?

Posted by: Zeno | October 17, 2009 12:51 PM

Halloween is nigh. If I am so foolhardy as to accompany any of my believing family members to a weekend mass, I am highly likely to hurt myself during the entertainment portion of the service. By that I mean the sermon, during which the priest is almost certain to inveigh against indulging in superstitious practices. Trying not to laugh out loud at such comedy gold can cause internal injuries.

I think I'll stay home instead and read Harry Potter. (I hear that's based on a true story!)

Posted by: A. Noyd | October 17, 2009 1:10 PM

Norman Doering (#5)

Ray Comfort and his pal Kirk have been pushing that one - Bible reading and prayer have been banned from public schools. You'll see it in their give-away-Darwin video

A bit OT, but speaking of their future fiasco, do they even realize that Darwin himself explained why the lack of crocoducks isn't a problem for evolution? I should love to have them read the second paragraph of chapter 9 which starts thus:

In the first place it should always be borne in mind what sort of intermediate forms must, on my theory, have formerly existed. I have found it difficult, when looking at any two species, to avoid picturing to myself, forms directly intermediate between them. But this is a wholly false view; we should always look for forms intermediate between each species and a common but unknown progenitor; and the progenitor will generally have differed in some respects from all its modified descendants.

I've been reading Origin for the first time and was struck by that bit. Not that they're not infamous for simply being unable to register their wrongness, but it's amusing that they're handing out thousands of copies of something that explicitly refutes their stupidity.

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 1:16 PM

http://www.christwire.org

I Am Extremely Terrified Of Chinese People
Parent Alert - World of Warcraft and Cosplay Will Destroy Your Child
Top Ten Reasons David Letterman Should Be Fired And Prosecuted

Japanese Cephalerotica Tentacle Sex Perversion On the Rise

Cracked.com Teaches Children How to Throw Gay "Furry" Orgies

From google, there is a large number of xian cult sites set up to make up lies and spread them around. They must know they are lies, they just don't care. It seems for some fundie xians, lying is a normal and honorable past time.

I think I'm done with that google experiment. Life is too short and xians can lie and be crazy far longer than my attention span.

Oddly enough, PZ Myers blog is mentioned often and they recommend spamming blogs with hate mail. If this is what xianity has degenerated to, it is on the way out.

PS I didn't click to find out what the "Gay furry orgy" is all about. Today is, "Japanese Cephalerotica Tentacle Sex Perversion On the Rise" day. Furries and tentacles just don't mix well.

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 1:34 PM

http://www.christwire.org

Dangerous Pharyngula Leader PZ Myers Combines Gene Evolution with Hipped Hopped Rap Agenda

Beyonce Music Causes Babies to do Devil Dances

Bill O’Reilly Has Been Compromised

Moral Alerts
Currently praying to decide who needs boycotting. Please check back soon.Blessed This Week

Zombie Jesus Jokes from Atheists - 2,224,223 views
Is It Ok For My Christian Daughter To Masturbate? - 1,249,728 views

G4TV Uses Games to Lurer Young Boys Into Sin - 827,656 views
Is Video Gaming a Threat to America’s High School Jock Culture? - 795,285 views

More lunacy from christwire.org. These people are blatantly crazy.

Posted by: shonny | October 17, 2009 1:37 PM

So, why are Christians so willing to believe unsubstantiated rumors?

And they have to ask about that???

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 1:43 PM

raven, before you cite christ.wire as a 'xian cult site,' check the wire on your satire-detector.

Unless I need the check the wire on mine, and you're kidding.

Not sure what you mean. I just googled and found christwire.org.

Is it a satire or parody site? Maybe. I just looked at the cached page again from the search and it looks real. But who knows? It can be hard to tell someone pretending to be a cult xian lunatic from a real cult xian lunatic.

Posted by: Insightful Ape | October 17, 2009 1:55 PM

How about the unsubstantiated rumors of eucharist desecration by the Jews and retaliations against them?
Right. Christians have never been so gullible as to buy into baseless rumors.
Some times a little knowledge of history is helpful.

Posted by: Tabby Lavalamp | October 17, 2009 2:01 PM

Ethicist Tillman called on Christians to examine their biases and prejudices, which he described as “tough exercise,” because it forces Christians to explore the influences that shaped them.

Posted by: jpf | October 17, 2009 2:20 PM

If you're having trouble with ChristWire, calibrate your satire detector with S.M.I.T.E. Camp:

At S.M.I.T.E. there will be no sports activities, swimming, or any kind of activities that would be associated with a youth camp. S.M.I.T.E. is designed for young people that have a desire to be trained in the work of the Lord, especially in the field of child evangelism. The preaching is direct, and very HOT! Those that are easily offended don't need to come. Only the King James version of the Bible is used throughout the camp. S.M.I.T.E. stands against all forms of rock, country western, contemporary, and so called honky tonk bar room gospel. We do not allow immodest dress and contemporary styles and fads. We also stand against "dating" as it is practiced in our culture. We teach and preach that young people should find the right mate through courtship, which involves both sets of parents. "Boyfriend-girlfriend" relationships are not allowed at S.M.I.T.E.

More rules can be found on their application form, including having only 5 minutes of contact with the outside world via cellphone per day (and then only with your parents); no "Afro, Punk, Weed Eater or Cool Dude hair styles" (are those last two even actual things or are they just imagining that's how the youths talk nowadays?); and you cannot attend if you have a My Space account (Facebook is ok, but you have to give your address on the form). Also, memorize the following verses: Romans 3:23, 6:23, 2 Peter 3:18, Hebrews 9:22, Rev. 3:20, John 14:2,3, 1 John 1:9 (there WILL be a test!)

Posted by: raven | October 17, 2009 2:25 PM

Well OK. LOL. Maybe christwire.org is a satire site. Even the ads were all xian advertisements from google.

It still doesn't look all that much different from Fox news, Worldnut Daily, and real xian web sites.

Posted by: Interrobang | October 17, 2009 2:43 PM

That thing about Proctor and Gamble was actually started by the (right-wing Xian funnymentalist death cultist) leaders of scAmway, as a way of both undermining their competitor with the base, and also aversion-training their (mostly equally right-wing Xian funnymentalist death cultist) marks away from using any of P&G's products instead of Godly scAmway.

Posted by: Jadehawk, OM | October 17, 2009 3:12 PM

And, frighteningly, Christians seem at the very least to be as susceptible as the population at large to spread false stories.

That's a funny thing for a group that consists of 76% of the population to be saying. Aren't they the population at large?

Posted by: tim gueguen | October 17, 2009 3:23 PM

Yeah, half the fun of Google Adsense is seeing what odd ads it will pop up based on your content. I'm certainly not getting rich off of it.

Posted by: Sastra | October 17, 2009 3:41 PM

Glen D #31 wrote:

Btw, I think Raven is "she."

Oh? I thought so once, but I vaguely remember being corrected by, I think, raven. Now I'm not sure again.

The wire on my satire-detector might be ok, but the guy-dar is evidently broken.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space | October 17, 2009 3:59 PM

Stephen P., The ideological divides between the various Christian sects break down"
Protestants do not recognize the authority of the Pope; Presbyterians do not recognize the authority of bishops; and Baptists don't recognize each other walking out of the liquor store.

Actually, I was amazed when I lived in Kentucky at how many different sects of Baptists here were--half-pint baptists, 5-gallon baptists and 50 gallon baptists, all breaking down on how much water is necessary to wash away one's sins, and all mutually certain that the others are going to hell. Looking at all the creatively fucked up interpretations of scripture the Baptists have come up with, one understands why the Catholics resisted translating the Bible into the vernacular.

Posted by: Stephen P | October 17, 2009 4:34 PM

@ray in dilbert space: OK, you made me laugh. Apparently I was understating the case.

Posted by: Alyson Miers | October 17, 2009 5:19 PM

And, frighteningly, Christians seem at the very least to be as susceptible as the population at large to spread false stories.

I suppose that when you cut out the Catholics and all those crunchy-granola mainliners, then the True Christians are indeed an embattled minority who can be compared and contrasted with the "population at large" rather than who are the majority of the population at large.

So, why are Christians so willing to believe unsubstantiated rumors? And more troubling, why are Christians, who should hold the highest standards of truth-telling, so eager to spread rumors—and even downright libels?

Perhaps it's that impulse to be the embattled minority--you know, the same impulse that talks about the "population at large" as if it's not predominantly Christian in the US--that's always getting thrown to the lions and bullied by the evil pagan Romans, that needs to create enemies. And if enemies are not naturally-occurring, then you need to choose enemies and make shit up so the rank-and-file will treat them like enemies rather than like good neighbors. (See "blood libel".) Spreading rumors and libels is an old Christian tradition. Believing shit that doesn't make sense is the backbone of the Abrahamic religions.

But all that said, it IS good of the Baptist Standard to take a stand for reality and fact-checking. I guess they just don't know a lot of religious history.

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | October 17, 2009 6:31 PM

That was a pretty good article. The author encourages his fellow Christians to think critically and beware of believing things just because it would be convenient if they were true. Why, I'm hopeful this fellow might yet think himself out of religion altogether. (I'm here to testify that it can be done -- can I get an amen?)

And then, one hopes (one could almost pray) he'll learn that "mitigate" != "militate".

Lilith @4,

the only comment ... was from someone spouting Birther nonsense

A subsequent commenter slapped the birther about the head and neck, though.

MAJeff @9,

ads in Maine about gay sex being taught if people don't get rid of marriage equality

Well, they do have a point. Teaching gay sex would be an awful waste of time. All my gay friends managed to figure it out on their own.

Pretty much the same as my straight friends, now that I think about it.

Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | October 17, 2009 8:20 PM

Witches get blood libel, too. Seriously, yesterday I was actually at an event where a loony bunch of Xians wanted to exorcise a spot where they claimed witches had been doing blood sacrifices. Of course, part of the evidence for this, apart from some rust stains at the base of the telecommunications pole, is the way parliamentarians have *shock* been improving gay rights. And the way you fix it is by blowing rams' horns. Seriously, they had some.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/exorcising-the-forces-of-evil-in-canberra-20091013-guwe.html

Witches and gays and feminists and the good side of the sex industry being all natural allies, we went up the mountain and had a counter demo with "keep religion out of parliament" and atheist signs, and rainbow flags, and women in flowing black with cardboard pointy hats. Lots of fun. The sour looks on the nutters' faces when the gay boys snogged was a joy to see.

Organised by these people - http://www.sexparty.org.au/

Posted by: Aquaria | October 17, 2009 10:14 PM

By that I mean the sermon, during which the priest is almost certain to inveigh against indulging in superstitious practices. Trying not to laugh out loud at such comedy gold can cause internal injuries.

I've had to attend Mass on a few occasions, and I end up black and blue every time because my formerly Catholic husband pinches me so much to prevent me from laughing out loud throughout the service. I have a great time, otherwise!

Alas, my husband has said he'll divorce me if I attempt to attend Mass, ever again. He got tired of my childishness, as he called it. I know it's going to be full of nonsense, just ignore it! But I can't. Sigh...

I'm still mad about this ban. He put the hammer down before we moved to San Antonio, and they have a Mariachi Mass here. Come on--how can anyone resist that?!

Posted by: Shawn Wilkinson | October 17, 2009 10:48 PM

"So, why are Christians so willing to believe unsubstantiated rumors?"

Those in glass houses ...

Posted by: strange gods before me, OM | October 17, 2009 11:41 PM

It's a clade.

Posted by: wrpd | October 18, 2009 12:03 AM

In my early, sexually-active life, I always dreaded being the first one a guy ever had sex with. I always thought, "What if I'm really bad at sex?"

Posted by: hje | October 18, 2009 12:24 AM

Remember Sarah Palin's "witch-hunter," who pronounced his blessing on her--which she freely accepted. Here's the legacy of creeps like him:

African Child 'Witches' Withstand Brutal Abuse by Churches

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568140,00.html

Posted by: frankosaurus | October 18, 2009 1:07 AM

Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least. - Bill Number 64, authored by Jefferson and "Reported by the Committee of Advisors, 18 June 1779

Jefferson didn't care about a lot of people's feelings.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 18, 2009 1:25 AM

Cath @ 54,

Witches and gays and feminists and the good side of the sex industry

Please elaborate.....:-) Sounds like a party I'd like to be part of !

Aquaria @ 57,

Done that. There's only so many times you can tell a guy, if I wanted dead and slimy running over that, I'd just use the scallops out of the fridge.

Ehm, you scare me !!

Posted by: strange gods before me, OM | October 18, 2009 1:35 AM

Yes, you are missing the other threads where fuckosaurus is a homophobic David Duke-quoting white supremacist troll.

I can see how that might have been confusing.

Posted by: strange gods before me, OM | October 18, 2009 2:28 AM

You are a David Duke-quoting white supremacist troll. You've made no substantive arguments.

My hero Jefferson? Honestly, what do you think you're talking about, frankkkosaurus? Get a clue, and leave. You are not welcome here.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 18, 2009 7:09 AM

Cath,

methinks we need to have a chat with those wholesome sex workers you mention there, maybe we can talk to the redhead regarding their placement at the Pharyngula tables at the convention LOL.

Posted by: The Countess | October 18, 2009 8:55 AM

It's nothing new to me that Christians pass on rumors without bothering to check the facts. I remember the Proctor and Gamble satanism rumor because when it went around the first time I was a fundy. My mother, who is still a very devout Christian, believed the hype and threw out all our P&G products. I thought it was ridiculous. I even pointed out to her and her fundy friends that Heineken beer (I think it was Heineken) had a pentacle on its cap. THAT rumor went around church. So, not only was there a pentacle on the cap, it was Demon Booze.

Posted by: Carlie | October 18, 2009 9:42 AM

Strange gods - take a look at the end of the "Attenborough disses genesis" thread for an interesting take on your #69-70 exchange...

Posted by: strange gods before me, OM | October 18, 2009 10:12 AM

Carlie, I am shocked -- shocked! -- to find that morphing is going on in here.

I know we all expected so much better of Frank.

Posted by: raven | October 18, 2009 10:27 AM

Did you know that 50,000 people are ritually sacrificed by satanists every year in the USA? Well, you do now. Where do you think all those missing kids on the milk cartons end up.

This has been a xian staple superstition for 2,000 years and the fundie xians today are the main believers. They constantly badger the police and FBI to investigate. The cops have investigated this for decades. They never found a shred of evidence.

There is one group in the USA known to practice Human Child Sacrifice. These are called fundie xians and they do it by witholding medical care from their own sick children. Estimates are that 10 kids/year are sacrificed by this method which can be quite painful but it is a difficult statistic to collect and the actual number could be more like a 100.

religioustolerance.org:

Satanic/sadistic ritual abuse (SRA)
1: Beliefs. Does it exist? One
indicator of its non-existence
Ritual Abuse is also called SRA, Satanic Ritual Abuse,
Ritualistic Abuse, Sadistic Ritual Abuse, Cult Related Abuse, etc.

What some people believe about SRA:
Some believe that a high-tech, secret, international Satanic organization engages in horrendous ritual abuse, mutilation and torture - largely of children.

Some attribute this abuse to mind and behavior control cults or other hidden groups.

Some estimate that there are 50,000 ritual human sacrifices each year in the US alone.

Perpetrators are believed to drink the blood and eat the flesh of the victims and engage in sexual abuse.

Generational Satanists are believed sacrifice some of their children and pass on their killing and mutilating rituals to other children.

A SRA industry composed of seminar speakers and authors sprang up in the 1980's to promote this belief system. By 2005, the "Satanic panic" had largely dissipated for two main reasons:

In spite of decades of dedicated police investigations, there resulted a complete lack of hard evidence of its existence.

Essentially all beliefs in ritual abuse by its survivors have been traced to a suggestive and unreliable therapeutic technique known as Recovered Memory Therapy (RMT). This technique regularly creates horrendous memories of abusive events that never happened.

Does SRA Exist?
The simple answers are yes and no. All evidence indicates that it does not exist as an international conspiracy. Also, it does not exist as a widespread underground inter-generational cult that passes its abusive beliefs and practices from grandparents to parents to children. There have been a few, isolated cases of activities that might be called "Sadistic Ritual Abuse", although none match the belief system described above and none are done by intergenerational secret "cults".

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | October 18, 2009 10:58 AM

I deny your accusations and will continue to deny them. As for your hero Jefferson, the evidence against him is startling. Unlike you, however, I am willing to look past the person who made arguments, and examine the quality of the arguments myself.

Frank your desire to be contrarian exposes your idiocy no matter how many big frilly bows you tie on it.