…and this is a 
I guess we have somebody worried.
Atheist Foundation of Australia and Global Atheist Convention Websites Attacked
The Atheist Foundation of Australia and Global Atheist Convention websites suffered a DDOS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack yesterday, which caused the websites to be taken offline.
These attacks affected our upstream providers and numerous other websites, cost a large amount of money and time, and have left the Atheist Foundation of Australia and the Global Atheist Convention websites without hosting for the interim.
While we do not have enough information to confirm the source or reason for the attacks, they came in the wake of news that The Rise of Atheism Global Atheist Convention, to be held in Melbourne next March, has already sold 1,000 tickets and is set to become the largest gathering of atheists in Australia's history.
AFA President, David Nicholls, says, "We have been informed that the Atheist Foundation of Australia and the Global Atheist Convention sites were the specific target of the attacks. This may be not just an attack on atheism, but an attack on freedom of speech."
Nicholls says that the Global Atheist Convention is not about attacking the beliefs of individuals but, rather, opposes the undue political influence of religious institutions and lobby groups in society.
"The Atheist Foundation of Australia supports freedom of thought, and that includes freedom of religion. Our aim is to keep the Australian government, education and welfare systems secular," says Nicholls. "Unfortunately, some people in our society find that very confronting."
The Atheist Foundation of Australia has raised this matter with the appropriate authorities and is discussing this situation with them.
The Atheist Foundation of Australia technical staff are working hard to restore the site and once it is restored, tickets for The Rise of Atheism Global Atheist Convention will again be available at http://www.atheistconvention.org.au.
Comments
Posted by: WowbaggerOM
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October 20, 2009 8:59 PM
You will know they are Christians by their
lovecowardice and pissant scumbag behaviour.Posted by: Brian English
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October 20, 2009 9:00 PM
Looks like a few cages have been rattled. On a not totally unrelated topic, did you know that the Victorian Government is funding the international parliament of religion or whatever it's called in Melbourne this December because it brings in tourist dollars but has avoided all requests for funding for the Global Atheist Alliance in Melbourne next March which will also bring in tourist dollars. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Posted by: Sastra
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October 20, 2009 9:01 PM
Why is it that only atheists seem to have to carry this disclaimer? If a Christian convention is held, or even a rally to fight the "rise of secularism," they never feel compelled to give a hasty little reassurance that of course they're not trying to prevent people from believing whatever they want, they're not disrespecting the individual's rights, they're not attacking anyone's beliefs, they're not out to take away anyone's freedom to be an atheist, and so forth and so on. They don't fall all over themselves apologizing for seeming to be acting as if they want to change people's minds, nor do they assume that doing so is an act of aggression or intrusion into private spheres. Nor should they.
Attacking atheist websites makes it harder for them to claim martyrdom. They should have thought of that.
Posted by: Dahan | October 20, 2009 9:03 PM
I have my doubts this was an attack from the outside on atheists. I think what we're seeing here is the first shots being fired in what will someday be remembered at "The Horrendous Atheist Schism Kablooie".
Now, which "side" do you think did it, and why?
Posted by: SEF
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October 20, 2009 9:11 PM
Was that a real DDOS or merely a pharyngulation?
Posted by: SC, OM | October 20, 2009 9:19 PM
Which includes the freedom to openly criticize other people's beliefs and to have one's own challenged. I don't like that first sentence - I think it can be "about" that in addition to other things.
Posted by: mtgap.wordpress.com
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October 20, 2009 9:33 PM
This must be your twentieth post today. Is that even humanly possible?
Posted by: John
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October 20, 2009 9:34 PM
No, I'd say it's just some kids screwing around. The religious right tends to be far too computer illiterate to do much of anything at all, much less organize an attack like this. See: Previous blog entry, "Fun with Twitter". Also, cdesign proponentsists.
But I wouldn't put it past one of them to hire a hit squad. All it would take is one church extra blessed with tithes to launder and a loose cannon in just the right place.
Posted by: Hank Fox | October 20, 2009 9:50 PM
Of course somebody's worried. The people who know that your freedom of thought is an assault on their freedom to control you.
Posted by: Peter G.
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October 20, 2009 10:02 PM
You know I've never actually attended a gathering devoted to atheism. It is pretty much a matter of agreement within my social circle that there is no reason evident to depart from the atheistic view. This may seem an odd question but it is a serious one: do atheists en masse, as it were, have a sense of humor? I ask this because, before I spend the cash to attend some similar function, I should like some assurance that I was not attending an earnest gathering of people devoted to exposing other peoples lamentable logical deficiencies. What do people talk about at these functions? Besides the obvious I mean.
Posted by: Hank Fox
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October 20, 2009 10:08 PM
Of course somebody's worried. The people who know that your freedom of thought is an assault on their freedom to control you.
Posted by: Jason | October 20, 2009 10:09 PM
This has been reported in The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/security/cyber-attacks-smite-atheist-websites-20091021-h7ul.html?autostart=1
Posted by: DJ
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October 20, 2009 10:09 PM
Peter G.,
I'm pretty sure you will find atheists overall are a mixed bag, just like any other inclusive group. There are bound to be people at a large gathering that you will be entertained by. Some may even have that sense of humor you are looking for. It is definitely worth it to attend functions in support of atheism. The more support for skepticism and critical thinking the better...
Oh yeah... Go Fight My Brute ya'll! Pharyngulate my flash street brawling awesomeness!
http://killa-jigg.mybrute.com
Posted by: WowbaggerOM
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October 20, 2009 10:17 PM
Well, since I've parted with the nearly 400 clams to go the conference and the dinner on Saturday night, I'm kind of hoping that they do. But, considering that Pharyngulite 'regulars' Bride of Shrek, Rorschach and Kel (and, no doubt, a few more that I'm not currently aware of) will be there with me, I suspect we're going to have more than a few laughs.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 10:19 PM
I think this question seems to hold back a lot of people. I get the impression that average people will think it'll be three days of Dawkins et al. saying "There is no God!" and having the audience clapping themselves raw.I've never been to a conference of this type before so I'm not sure what will go on, but I can't imagine it being too dissimilar from the AAI conference PZ blogged about earlier this month. The skeptics hold a lecture here in Canberra on the 13th of each month (next month will be Friday the 13th, ooooo scary), and it's not "lol, people believe in weird thing", rather it's a way to explore serious issues and bridge the gap between the intellectual and the layman. I'm expecting similar in March.
Posted by: Russell Blackford | October 20, 2009 10:22 PM
"Nicholls says that the Global Atheist Convention is not about attacking the beliefs of individuals but, rather, opposes the undue political influence of religious institutions and lobby groups in society."
I would have thought it was about both. I'm going to be talking about the latter, but I don't think the former should be taboo. I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to avoid attacking the beliefs of individuals, and I doubt that the higher-profile speakers will be either. The two work best in tandem.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 10:25 PM
I won't be at the dinner on the saturday night, $100 for a meal is asking too much. But I'm sure there will be plenty of non-dinner attendees to hang out with in Melbourne that night.Posted by: SC, OM | October 20, 2009 10:28 PM
I think part of what it should be "about" is examining why he would feel it necessary to say this, and how we can work toward a situation in which no beliefs are outside of the public discussion or culturally shielded from critical challenge.
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | October 20, 2009 10:37 PM
I'm going. And if you're worried about humour, make sure you get to Sue-Ann Post on Friday night. She is hilarious.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM
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October 20, 2009 10:41 PM
Of course we've got a sense of humour. I'm a lawyer. If I didn't have a sense of humour I'd have to kill myself.
Posted by: foxfire
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October 20, 2009 10:42 PM
@ #3 Sastra
Sastra, if we were dealing with people who respect a rational approach, I'd completely agree with your above statement.
Clearly we are not dealing with anything remotely approaching rational, much less ethical, with regard to the nutjob religious right. They clearly have demonstrated, via past actions, that any opposing thought to their dogma represents "an attack on Christianity"....to be broadcast and widely disseminated on their cable channel of choice to gather the troops and prepare for "defensive" war.
Rationally, it is ridiculous to represent a difference of opinion about the existence of the supernatural as some kind of real (physical) threat to a majority, particularly when most of those holding the minority opinion abhor violence.
Posted by: Davo
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October 20, 2009 10:44 PM
It was a 'real' DDoS took out a cabinet in the datacenter with a 1Gbps attack. Pharyngulation would be hard presses to push that amount of data on the site per second, and not just via HTTP either ..
Bringing the sites back online with a ddos mitigation service atm, they should be back up over the next 24hrs, as stuff like DNS propagates. power on ;)
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM
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October 20, 2009 11:13 PM
They had just asked me
If they could reprint a verse
So I blame myself.
(seriously--The AFA want one of my silly verses for their cool mag! I tried to check out their website... but obviously there was nothing there.)
Posted by: Alverant
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October 20, 2009 11:25 PM
How do we know it was christians doing it? I keep hearing about how muslims are becoming more technologically advanced when it comes to terrorist attacks. Since no one took responsibility, we shouldn't assume it was christians. Any fundamentalist sees anyone of any other belief as a threat. I'm sure there are muslim extremists who hate us just as much as christian extremists.
(FYI I admit it's most likely the criminal who did this is a christian, but we shouldn't assume.)
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 20, 2009 11:31 PM
My first thought was "Oh crap! Publicity!"
So I've just bought my ticket right now (which... yeah I've been meaning to do for ages now...)
So - won't be going to the dinner, but am keen to catch up with Pharyngulites at a pub sometime that weekend(there's a plethora to choose from just up the river from the convention on Southbank - maybe at BearBrass or somewhere?)
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 20, 2009 11:35 PM
There's meant to be some pharyngulite dinner on the friday (right BoS)?Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 20, 2009 11:53 PM
Kel,
Cool. May I respectfully indicate my interest in this event?
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 21, 2009 12:00 AM
Bride of Shrek put her email address up in another thread (Aussies start your engines I believe it was) to register.
On that note, BoS did you get my email?
Posted by: breadmaker | October 21, 2009 12:01 AM
while DDOS attacks score low on the bravery-o-meter, perhaps it is just some foggy headed teenagers trying to find some modern application of Jesus driving people out of the temple with a whip?
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 12:01 AM
Thanks Kel,
Must have missed that one. A-searchin I will go...
Posted by: The Ungodly Goddess
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October 21, 2009 12:02 AM
So they can't trust their omniscient, omnipotent sky daddy to fight his own battles? Tsk. Where is their faith?
Posted by: Hideki
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October 21, 2009 12:05 AM
If evolution is true, why are there still packet monkeys?
Posted by: Smoggy Batzrubble OM4Jesus
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October 21, 2009 12:09 AM
Dear Brother Cuttlefish,
It warms my heart to hear that the atheists want your poetry.
Perhaps once your rhymes have softened their hearts I might be able to slip in a verse or two of my latest Christian witness, a poem entitled: "Suck it Sinners"... being a lengthy catalogue of every sort of debauchery that will be punished on judgement day.
In the meantime, up your quatrains!
Smoggy
PS I tried to log into your blog to witness the other day, but experienced a rejection. I will try again when my tumescent quill is under less pressure.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 12:10 AM
Kel, from my quick search on that discussion it seems to be just regarding the Saturday night convention dinner - but I'll email BoS anyway to see whats on. Thanks!
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM
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October 21, 2009 12:11 AM
Sorry Kel, been away, I'll send you an email tonight.
Yes we're trying to have a get together prior to the conference dinner so those Pharyngulites that can't attend the dinner can still catch up, meet, greet, tell bad jokes etc etc.
Anyone interested (who hasn't already been in contact)send an email to laingshort at hotmail.com and I'll put you on the list. At this stage I'm just gathering names and email addresses to judge numbers so a suitable place to meet can be found. Indicate in your email whether you want to attend the informal get together, the conference dinner or both and I'll put you on the appropriate list. Closer to the event I'll send out a global email telling everyone of the details.
So far we've had great interest and it looks like we've got dozens of Pharyngulites attending the conference and get togethers. The more the merrier!!!
Posted by: Jams.n.Tones
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October 21, 2009 12:11 AM
So did we ever decide to get a pharyngulite tshirt (or similar) for easy recognition at the convention?
Maybe we should just make our own wee badges to wear? I kind of like the idea of sporting a crayon and construction paper cephalopod somewhere on my person. Hehe
Posted by: llewelly | October 21, 2009 12:19 AM
Peter G. | October 20, 2009 10:02 PM:
Of course not. Without God, one can only be a soulless automaton. This is also why atheists are so good with facts, science, and logical arguments. They are robots. Androids. Like Data. Able to think, but not able to feel.
Posted by: Dahan
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October 21, 2009 12:32 AM
You don't have to be as big-brained as humans to have a sense of humor and laugh.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/06/04/1953175.aspx
Since I doubt many other animals than humans are theists, I think this isn't something we have to worry about. I mean, have you ever listened to George Carlin and the way his show is reacted too?! Pharyngula regularly makes me laugh harder than any other site out there. Perhaps a serious question, but easily answered.
PS I did once have a theist tell me that Giraffes were god's way of showing he had a sense of humor. That made me laugh too. :)
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 12:33 AM
Atheist 1: My dog has no nose.
Atheist 2: Really? That is quite an interesting mutation! How do you think it came about?
Atheist 1: Well, I have a couple of hypothesis! First...
Posted by: Jason | October 21, 2009 12:33 AM
Check out some of the ridiculous comments on here:
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/security/cyber-attacks-smite-atheist-websites-20091021-h7ul.html?autostart=1
Pharyngulites to the rescue?
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 12:53 AM
"hypotheses" - plural... of course...
and boy, does that 'The Age' comments system suck or what? You've just got to keep hammering that 'Show more comments' link until it finally coughs up all the comments.
Posted by: Jason | October 21, 2009 12:55 AM
@Charlie it absolutely sucks!
Posted by: SC, OM | October 21, 2009 1:10 AM
Cuttlefish,
I'm sorry the religious are so deeply a-verse
[I'll stop there, with apologies. Emmmmmmmetttttt!]
Posted by: MadScientist
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October 21, 2009 1:18 AM
Any idiot script kiddie with a pet botnet can launch such an attack. If people aren't going to bother to spend time to dig in to find out what's going on they shouldn't bother to say any more than they suffered an attack. I wouldn't even blame Microsoft for their crappy software which makes botnets so popular.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 1:31 AM
MadScientist-
Sure, but surely the chances are on the side of the idiot scriptkiddie being some happy-clappy crusader imagining himself wielding his firey holy-smiting machine?
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 1:35 AM
I can say that the local ABC radio is onto the funding issue.
I have heard about this "parliament of religion" BS, sounds like a load of bollocks, and it is getting victorian govt funding.
Can't wait to see everyone ! BoS, can you update me on the tables and what we're expecting !
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM
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October 21, 2009 1:37 AM
Rorschach
Will send you an email tonight gorgeous!
Posted by: Dale | October 21, 2009 2:04 AM
and boy, does that 'The Age' comments system suck or what? You've just got to keep hammering that 'Show more comments' link until it finally coughs up all the comments.
When you get the first bunch of comments, amend the URL (where it will say 60=comments (or similar), amend it to 600 (or 6000!) and hit reload.
That catches all of the comments...
Posted by: chrisD | October 21, 2009 2:13 AM
It could just be a troll. Specifically attacking atheist websites alone could be a tactic to that end. Just because the websites involved are atheism based doesn't mean it's religiously motivated. No point jumping the shark on this one.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 2:15 AM
Dale: Genius! Shame they can't just make it... you know...usable or something. But thanks for the tip, I'm sure I'll be using that a lot.
-
BoS: I've emailed you re Friday dinner. Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Posted by: Feynmaniac
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October 21, 2009 2:26 AM
When I heard that they were charging so much I thought: 'hey, maybe atheism is a religion'.
Posted by: Heather Mac | October 21, 2009 2:35 AM
Great, now I have three reasons to want to go to Melbourne (the other two are seeing if I'd want to move there and visiting my best friend), making it all the more frustrating that I just can't afford it (yet, anyway).
Posted by: sasqwatch
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October 21, 2009 2:38 AM
Thanks chrisD, I was thinking the same thing. Motivation for this kind of thing is usually merely to get a headline... I'd bet the perp is a "don't know and don't care" agnostic type.
...if I was the betting type.
Posted by: WowbaggerOM
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October 21, 2009 3:05 AM
I'm keen for the Friday night catch-up as well; I'm looking at flying in (and boy, will my arms be tired...how's that for an atheist sense of humour?) lunchtime Friday, which'll give me enough to time to get to wherever the heck it is I'm staying and then into the city.
We should also make it a standing order that Bride of Shrek never buys herself a drink at any point - since she's the one doing all the organising leg-work.
One assumes (well, hopes - considering I've already paid for it) the $100 dinner will be of the extraordinarily lavish standard - i.e lots of food, rather than wanky nouvelle cuisine; it's Australia, after all. And, since we're also mad alcoholics, there should probably be rivers of booze as well.
Posted by: ashling
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October 21, 2009 3:11 AM
Anyone know if this is worth checking out while in town?
http://museumvictoria.com.au/darwin-to-dna
Posted by: truth machine
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October 21, 2009 3:12 AM
I'm sure there are muslim extremists who hate us just as much as christian extremists.
(FYI I admit it's most likely the criminal who did this is a christian
I discern a contradiction.
Posted by: truth machine
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October 21, 2009 3:16 AM
No, I'd say it's just some kids screwing around. The religious right tends to be far too computer illiterate to do much of anything at all, much less organize an attack like this.
Sigh. The religious aren't the only ones who live in a fantasy world.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 3:22 AM
Trying to think of the name of that youtube guy who is going to speak/perform at the Saturday dinner, John Morales would know....
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 21, 2009 3:28 AM
My current plan is flying in Thursday night and leaving mid-Monday, though that may change depending on whether I'm accompanied or I road trip down with friends. So I have Friday night for the pharyngulite dinner, that means that Saturday I'm all for boozing it up at some quasi-classy establishment. Any decent microbreweries in the heart of Melbourne?
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 21, 2009 3:36 AM
Though there is apparently talk of some huge get together for all those not going to the dinner - people from the Richard Dawkins forums plus people from meetup groups around the country. So those missing out on the dinner, there'll be alternate entertainment.
Or if people want, just get ripped at a microbrewery instead ;)
Posted by: bad Jim | October 21, 2009 3:45 AM
The website seems to be back up again.
Posted by: Cath the Canberra Cook | October 21, 2009 3:54 AM
But check the program (when you can) - there is a Friday night event scheduled already. And it has Sue-Ann Post listed. You MUST see Sue-Ann. She is awesome. She's a butch dyke ex-Mormon comedian and Olympic muscle athlete, and when I last saw her live in the pub she had a bunch of us on stage miming group sex in the lift (elevator). She doesn't perform very much, unfortunately. AWESOME! MUST SEE! *swoon*
Not updated enough: http://www.sue-annpost.com.au/bio.html
Posted by: WowbaggerOM
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October 21, 2009 4:28 AM
I second Cath's endorsement of Sue-Ann Post. I've never had the opportunity to catch her live, but I've seen a few broadcasts of her stand-up routines and they're great. After that's done, though, we should definitely go somewhere and kick on.
Posted by: reason
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October 21, 2009 4:32 AM
As for atheism and humour, have you guys never heard of Dave Allen? "Goodnight, and may your god go with you!"
P.S. Philip Adams has a clever sense of humour.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM
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October 21, 2009 4:48 AM
Wowbagger @ #54
Well thanks, but really no need for that, the amount of booze I can consume there'd be a real danger of me sending some Pharyngulites broke.
Besides, by me doing all the organising you could essentially say I'm ordering a heap of science geeks around.
That there is some hard core fantasy material for me.
Posted by: q
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October 21, 2009 6:01 AM
Attacks like this only make the two groups hate each other more. Why can't we just love each other for who we are? No man has any right to judge another's personal choice, either way.
*is devout Christian*
Posted by: chrisD | October 21, 2009 6:24 AM
On the contrary, I do have the right to judge your personal choices. They form one base of reference for the effect those choices have. Your personal preference for blondes with big boobs, on the other hand, that is something you could say I have no right to 'judge.' Since you volunteered the *devout christian* label yourself, how bout those homos and their preference for other men? If you go to your big book of wisdom and say that, while you don't judge them, they are wrong, you are merely judging by proxy. Does your philosophy actually mesh with your belief, or are you just paying lip service to an idealized stance to smugly impress upon us your all-encompassing tolerance for everything under the sun?Just curious.
Posted by: chrisD | October 21, 2009 6:30 AM
Someone spiked my coffee.Posted by: devnull73.myopenid.com
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October 21, 2009 6:46 AM
q@66: because generally you people arent happy unless you're pushing your whacky stuff on others, or attempting to force it down the throats of my kids while theyre at school.
So no, we cant. Sorry.
Posted by: Russell Blackford | October 21, 2009 7:00 AM
There's ... um ... bound to be stuff happening on the Thursday evening, before the conference itself, so don't get there too late. ;)
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 7:00 AM
Not much to be loved about deluded intolerant fools trying to shove their delusions into everyone's face, sorry.
Btw, NonStampCollector is the guy who will be at the Saturday dinner !
Posted by: Walton | October 21, 2009 7:06 AM
I understand and sympathise with the basic sentiment, but I think you're conflating different issues here, and I particularly disagree with your final sentence.
Freedom and tolerance require that we refrain from using coercive force to impose our choices and values on others. Certainly, this denial-of-service attack violated that principle (just as it would if atheists were to do the same thing to a religious website). In a free society, theists and nontheists alike ought to be able to express their views without being forcibly silenced. You will find few people here who disagree with that.
However, freedom and tolerance do not require that we refrain from judging and criticising others' choices. If I believe that other people's personal choices are profoundly wrong, irrational and damaging, then I have both a right and a duty to speak out against them. For instance, I can't stop fundamentalist parents teaching their children that the earth is 6,000 years old; but I consider this belief to be both wrong and harmful, and I regularly say so. Likewise, I can't stop people teaching and practising homeopathy; but homeopathy is ineffective, dangerous and irrational, and I would argue that I am both entitled and morally obliged to speak out against it. While people deserve respect, their irrational beliefs do not; and "tolerance" and "respect" should not be used to render ideas immune from public criticism.
You say "Why can't we just love each other for who we are?" Maybe we can; but love doesn't require us to accept or "respect" ideas that are both wrong and seriously harmful. Hence why I think it is right to speak out against fundamentalist religion, creationism, "alternative medicine", ultra-nationalism, and other forms of dangerous irrationality - even if, in doing so, we offend those who hold these beliefs. And you say "No man has a right to judge another's personal choice." Again, I disagree. If you make choices which I believe to be wrong and harmful - such as promoting fundamentalist religion - I will say so. I can't, and shouldn't, stop you from making those choices; in a free society, it is your right to do so. But I have a corresponding right to disagree with you, and to express this opinion publicly.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 7:13 AM
Walton, as far as I know we can't be sure who is behind that attack, mightnt have been xtians at all just some bored scriptkiddies.
Posted by: SEF
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October 21, 2009 7:25 AM
@ q #66:
On the contrary, everyone has a duty to judge stuff. Most (all?) people who say they don't judge are lying anyway. They're all the more dangerously incompetent for doing their judging subconsciously rather than consciously. They're also propagating a falsehood that judging is a bad thing. It's absolutely vital to judge and to be good at doing it.
For example, you've made the explicit judgment there that another's personal choice to judge is wrong! And you've made that hypocritical and faulty judgment precisely because you're not judging properly but are instead judging badly - by dishonestly pretending not to judge and consequently failing to put the necessary conscious effort into judging well.
Posted by: Carlie
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October 21, 2009 7:45 AM
q - for you, it may just be a personal choice. But an awful lot of people think it means that they can push around everyone else to do what they say, because they are somehow morally and ethically superior and have all the right answers, and they are speaking in your name. They use the fact that you count yourself as a Christian to bolster their support numbers. If there's anyone to point the finger at, it's pushy Christians.
Posted by: SEF
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October 21, 2009 7:46 AM
PS
Bigots are people who don't want to judge properly, on merit, but instead want a shortcut to avoid the effort of thinking and checking evidence.
Creationists and religionists are also what they are because they're avoiding judging properly and are merely judging hypocritically. Eg "judging" that the personal opinions of a (fictional) Jesus are good without bothering to check that they really are. And typically these people are not even reading the relevant book first-hand but are relying on (ie judging as valid) someone else's similarly faulty personal opinion of it!
Posted by: Speedwell
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October 21, 2009 7:48 AM
Come now. Why do you think they picked this particular target? Bored scriptkiddies with a religious agenda, whether they themselves are religious or not, are just arrows fired out of the bow of religion.Posted by: Anri
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October 21, 2009 7:59 AM
q sez (in part):
Let's, for the sake of argument, accept your statement. In that light, please explain to us why your god has that right.
Show your work.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Nonreligious Nerd
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October 21, 2009 8:13 AM
Just testing MovableType
Posted by: Fred The Hun | October 21, 2009 8:31 AM
4,3,2,1... The world is going to end in New York!
Atheist ads to adorn New York subway stations
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21/new.york.subway.ads/index.html
This should be fun ;-)
Posted by: JBlilie
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October 21, 2009 8:33 AM
Re: Sense of humor:
My experience down-unda was that the Aussies were the friendliest, funniest, most easy-going people I've ever met in the world. I loved Melbourne. I find it hard to imagine not having a good time in Melbourne with a mob of beer-fueled Aussies. Especially without religion.
Posted by: JBlilie
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October 21, 2009 8:46 AM
Heather @52:
"Melbourne ... seeing if I'd want to move there"
I think you will ... Wonderful place, St. Kilda beach, Nice transit system, great pubs, good food, good weather in March.
Posted by: Pete Moulton
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October 21, 2009 9:01 AM
Peter at #10 asks: "This may seem an odd question but it is a serious one: do atheists en masse, as it were, have a sense of humor?"
Well, Peter, I think you need to go into the archives of this fine blog, and have another look at the picture of PeeZed riding the dinosaur at the creation 'museum', with his crocoduck tie proudly displayed, and cephalopod sidekick in loving embrace. Sense of humor? Mine at least, has been described as 'overdeveloped', and there are plenty of regular posters here who could say the same of theirs.
Posted by: Peter McKellar
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October 21, 2009 9:11 AM
JBlilie @81 & @82
Cunning aren't we? Like all pushers, we give the first shot free. Next time you visit we will pounce muuuuhahahaha ;)
Also, you potentially opened a very raw wound. The dispute between Sydney and Melbourne (over which city is "best" goes back over 100yrs - before federation in 1901). Canberra is the capital because it is roughly half-way between the two.
These days it is just good natured rivalry. Melbourne has lots to offer, especially in the food, wine and entertainment areas. I favour Sydney myself, partly because I lived there for years as a kid but mostly for the ocean (surf, scuba, snorkelling).
Having said that, one of the most pleasurable and entertaining meals I've had was at an Italian restaurant on Lygon Street. Locals may know it - they have one or two tables in the kitchen (for spill and regular diners). It was chaos with chopping, mixing, boiling and the occasional dish flaming on the hotplate. We got to listen (and join in) with the general banter and minutiae of the staffs' daily lives.
Posted by: Peter McKellar
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October 21, 2009 9:23 AM
The upsetting thing about the website hacks is that I fear the event will be sold out long before I can raise the cash for tickets. A number of commenters on the article PZ links to indicated that they hadn't known of the conference and were going to race out and get tickets.
If so, I will still go down and "loiter with intent" and soak up all the sanity.
As for which drinking establishment to grace - whats wrong with a good old fashioned aussie pub crawl?
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 9:50 AM
Peter,
we'll make sure there will be plenty non-ticketed time with everyone, even if a few of us go stargazing on Saturday nite, we should have plenty of time Thursday, Friday and Sunday, should be good ! And if there's one thing there's no shortage of in Melbourne it's watering holes...:-)
I can picture the worn-out dishevelled aussie pharyngulite horde sitting bleary-eyed in PZs lecture on the Saturday...:-)
Posted by: Alverant
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October 21, 2009 10:18 AM
Truth machine, different groups deal with their hatred in different ways. Some people blow up buildings and only want to avoid capture so they can do it again. Other people try to be sneaker to avoid capture and going to jail. There's no contradiction about it.
Posted by: Peter McKellar
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October 21, 2009 10:28 AM
Rorschach @86
Many thanks :) Stargazing? I must have missed that thread (unless u mean PZ, RD et al). Either way, I'm up for it.
I have already registered interest with BoS to join a table, but I won't be able to confirm until closer to the date (I also have to sell a house, move cities, find new accommodation, get a job and beg for leave in March).
Most of all I want to meet a few of the regular posters on Pharyngula. Whilst there are many atheists in my town of 5,000, most are "don't cares" and I am the only "New Atheist" that I know of in the area. The majority of people here are really (really) nice but few seem to share a similar range of interests as me. Every couple of weeks I get to talk with a local retiree - in his late 70s, he has 8 degrees, loves cosmology/astronomy, can read and write aramaic AND Linear B and has a sharp mind. It will be very good to hang out with a few others, even if just for a weekend.
Its almost my bedtime (1:30am). Cya there in March :)
Posted by: Jason | October 21, 2009 10:29 AM
@Rorschach http://www.youtube.com/nonstampcollector
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 11:14 AM
Charlie Foxtrot,
just read through the comments in the Age article, good on you...:-)
Lots of "atheism is a religion" and "Dawkins is a fundamentalist" BS tho, disappointing that. And Pascal's wager, yeah !!!
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler
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October 21, 2009 11:53 AM
I guess we have somebody worried.
Probably not anybody important.
Thanks to the magic of the marketplace, DDOS attacks have recently dropped to $30-50 per day, if you can connect with the right entrepreneurs.
Just think: only two degrees of separation (at most) between criminal spam networks and Jeebus!
Posted by: condignaction.wordpress.com
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October 21, 2009 1:48 PM
Everyone is blaming the Supernatural-Imaginationists. Most likely. it was the Australian League of Atheists (ALA) who attacked the website. The ALA are bratty little bitches. Members of AFA are the real atheists; those ALA people are jealous posers. This one time, at Atheist camp, I saw Richard Dawkins -pbuh- spit on the ground when the ALA was mentioned.
Posted by: Gregory Greenwood
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October 21, 2009 2:13 PM
"The Rise of Atheism Global Atheist Convention, to be held in Melbourne next March, has already sold 1,000 tickets and is set to become the largest gathering of atheists in Australia's history."
Is not the source of their fear self-evident? Such a concentration of the baby-eating, godless horde in one place will surely tear a hole in the fabric of reality itself. A portal straight to hell will form, and Australia (nay, the World!) will be doomed to be overrun with gibbering demon-spawn. . . Or something.
So you see it is their duty (duty, no less!) as good Christians to do all they can to undermine the free speach of the evil, godless heathens in order to stave off the kind of hellish apocalypse that Sam Raimi would be proud to commit to celluloid.
Now ask yourselves; do the above paragraphs really make any less sense than the tripe that the hardcore xians actually believe?
.
.
.
Didn't think so.
Posted by: Joel Monet | October 21, 2009 3:34 PM
God used to flood the world and burn cities to the ground when he got pissed, but now he shuts down your server. Wow, god... We're shaking in our boots!
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot
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October 21, 2009 7:38 PM
Hi Rorschach, thanks :) With all the comments saying they didn't know about the conference I though some might appreciate discovering Pharyngula as well (I did, a couple of years ago!)
I also submitted another comment, still caught up in moderation I guess, having a giggle at the guy that called RD "sneering, elitist, polemic" etc
He left out 'strident'! How could anyone forget 'strident'?
Anyway, the sites back up now, which is good :)
Posted by: ayeung213 | October 21, 2009 7:47 PM
@ashling (#55)
I took Derek (kid who got kicked out of the Creation Museum) there when he was here. The Darwin exhibit is ok, the rest of the museum is worth a visit; dinosaurs are always fun, an interactive mind/psychology exhibit (although that may be gone by then) and a stuffed Phar Lap. If you're a student, admission is free.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 9:11 PM
I note this comment to the Age article, about 12 hours ago local time :
Posted by: Kristy | October 21, 2009 10:04 PM
Rorschach wrote: I note this comment to the Age article, about 12 hours ago local time :
It is abundantly evident that the AFA sites were not the sites that were specifically being targeted in the DDOS attacks, for the attacks on the Net Logistics network are continuing even into this very evening, when the AFA sites were transferred away from Net Logisitics at midday today.
---------
Unfortunately, people who do not have all the technical information available to them are speculating without sufficient evidence.
I checked directly with the techs working on the site today and they have confirmed that the assault was directly targeted at the AFA and that this has been confirmed by third parties.
The AFA does not know who launched the attack or for what reason, but they do know that they were the intended target.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 21, 2009 10:16 PM
Kristy,
obviously I wont know for sure what went on unless I can see the server logs, but it doesnt really matter in the end, does it.
If you look at the comments in the Age, it seems whoever did it did us a favor, in creating huge publicity and awareness about the convention...:-)
Posted by: Kristy | October 21, 2009 10:28 PM
Rorschach, I'm not in a position to share the server logs with you. All I can do is to confirm that the very reputable technical experts who are assisting the AFA with this problem HAVE seen the logs and ARE dealing with the attack at the coalface and THEY confirm - having access to all the evidence - that the attacks were targeted at the AFA and Convention websites. This is a view shared by the ISP and others directly involved.
As you are probably aware, the AFA's tech support team are volunteer IT experts. They're not 'on the payroll' of the AFA and would not compromise their own professional reputations by 'spinning' a story that was untrue.
Similarly, I have been in media and PR for nearly 30 years and I have a reputation to protect. I'm not going to put out false information for any organization and risk my own credibility. All the publicity in the world isn't worth that.
Posted by: Twisted_Colour | October 21, 2009 10:36 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/racerelations/videos.htm
I'm not sure if this vid will work outside of Australia, but if it does - cringe and enjoy.
Posted by: Jason | October 21, 2009 11:13 PM
Both websites are back online!
http://atheistconvention.org.au
http://atheistfoundation.org.ay
Posted by: Jason | October 21, 2009 11:16 PM
Oops
http://atheistfoundation.org.au
Posted by: realitycheck | October 21, 2009 11:59 PM
God doesn't exist? prove it hahahahahahahaha lol on a serious note, i work for a web host company and these attacks happen all the time. especially to companies with a marketing budget. if you publicise yourself, you will be hacked. it happens people! its unlikely to be targeted at sugguested, unless you want to generalise that far.
Posted by: realitycheck | October 22, 2009 12:01 AM
God doesn't exist? prove it! you can't! so you relatively live in blind faith as any other.
...
on a serious note, i work for a web host company and these attacks happen all the time. especially to companies with a marketing budget. if you publicise yourself, you will be hacked. it happens people! its unlikely to be targeted at sugguested, unless you want to generalise that far.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 22, 2009 12:19 AM
I think the burden of proof is reversed.Can you prove that Ziltoid The Omniscient doesn't exist? Of course you can't. But there's no reason to assume he does, so until there's sufficient evidence to support Ziltoid's existence, why shirk away from non-belief in Ziltoid?
Or are you one of those Ziltoid-agnostics? ;)
Posted by: speedweasel
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October 22, 2009 12:53 AM
Oh PZ, in case no one has mentioned it, Melbourne has a rather nice aquarium, located just across the road from the convention centre. I'm sure they'll have squids.
(Someone has probably have mentioned it but I cant be arsed trawling all the comments)
Posted by: darvolution proponentsist | October 22, 2009 1:23 AM
In other OT news ....
I was just surfing along with the tv remote and happened to stop on The Girls Next Door. I normally wouldn't bother pausing for long but it was immediately apparent there's been a changing of the guard, a new gaggle of blondes and Holly has split for Las Vegas.
Normally this wouldn't rate worth mentioning here, but as I read PZ's post I heard good ol' Hef say (while looking down at a dog) something like ...
"What is it about evolution that when a dog is happy he shakes his ass"
Mr. Hefner, you just went up another notch in my book.
Also, Hail Ziltoid.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 22, 2009 1:38 AM
There's a point where the Gospel of Ziltoid has a glaring inconsistency. Ziltoid is meant to be omniscient, yet he didn't know that the coffee would be fetid before he tried it, nor did he know that the 5th dimensional planet smasher would turn him down on the grounds of hating musicals. And to top it all off, he sought answers from the omnidimensional creator! He may be hailed as the universes ultimate guitar hero, but he hardly exhibits the quality of omniscience... Maybe this is why Captain Spectacular set out to expose Ziltoid for being a nerd.
Still if the Christians can call a god who partakes in genocide omnibenevolent, I think that Ziltoid can stand up as omniscient ;)
Posted by: SEF
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October 22, 2009 4:57 AM
@ Rorschach #97:
Depending on how the attacks were arranged, couldn't they still be targeting the old location long after the real websites had been moved away. If PZ deleted his old threads (or moved his whole blog again), there would still be bots attacking the place where those used to be. If any of the auto-attack software in this case had included route-tracking bots, they would still be unthinkingly hitting the same server IP.
Posted by: Rorschach | October 22, 2009 5:10 AM
Yeah, and if what Kirsty said above is true that's exactly the case.
I really think we can't have this discussion out in the open enough, so don't really care whether bigot xtian scum or bored scriptkiddies were the culprit...:-)
If someone was convicted of this and found to be a fundie xtian of some sort, this could be pointed out in public, I dont think until then anyone should rush to conclusions.
Posted by: Walton | October 22, 2009 5:45 AM
Not to mention the Atheist People's Front, the People's Atheist Front, the People's Front of Atheism... :-)
Posted by: genocide committed by atheists | October 22, 2009 10:08 PM
A timeline of evolution-inspired terror by atheists
1860: Karl Marx
The ‘spiritual father’ of the communist system, Marx was an avid adherent of Darwin. He combined his social and economic idea with evolutionary principles. Marx wrote that Darwin’s book ‘contains the basis in natural history for our views.’ His disciple Lenin applied utter ruthlessness and terror in Russia—the term ‘rivers of blood’ has commonly been applied in describing his reign.
1918: Leon Trotsky
Fanatically committed to Darwinism and Marxism, communist leader Trotsky was brutal against the Christian church. He said that Darwin’s ideas ‘intoxicated’ him, and ‘Darwin stood for me like a mighty doorkeeper at the entrance to the temple of the universe.’ With no Creator’s laws to restrain him and the justification of evolution, he felt free to use any means to attain power and political ends.
1930: Joseph Stalin
The world’s worst mass-murderer studied at Tiflis (Tbilisi) Georgia, theological college. A friend later said Stalin became an atheist after reading Darwin. He was expelled from the college at 19 because of his revolutionary connections. After understanding that evolution provided no basis for conscience or morals, he felt free to torture and murder to whatever extent he chose to achieve his communist goals.
1940: Adolf Hitler
Formed his racial and social policies on the evolutionary ideas of survival of the fittest and the superiority of certain ‘favoured races’ (as in the subtitle of Darwin’s book). Hitler’s reign resulted in the murder of six million Jews as well as many blacks, gypsies, the retarded, and other groups deemed unfit to live. The evolutionary ‘science’ of eugenics provided him with justification for his decrees.
1975: Pol Pot
The death in 1998 of Cambodia’s Pol Pot marked the end of one of the world’s worst mass murderers. From 1975 he led the Khmer Rouge to genocide against his own people in a bloodthirsty regime which was inspired by the communism of Stalin and China’s notorious Mao Zedong. Chairman Mao is known to have regarded Darwin and his disciple Huxley as his two favourite authors.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 22, 2009 10:21 PM
And that has what to do with anything?
Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM
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October 22, 2009 10:37 PM
Yawn, #113 is just another Liar for Jebus™. They are boring, insipid, repetitive, and just plain wrong. It would just be easier for them to convince us that their deity exists by presenting the conclusive physical evidence for their deity. But that just seems beyond their meager intelligence and capabilities. Or their god exists only between their ears...
Posted by: ashling
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October 23, 2009 10:19 PM
@Kel #109:
Devin Townsend reference win! Glad to see there are other fans out there.