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Category: Creationism
Posted on: October 23, 2009 3:25 PM, by PZ Myers
I almost forgot — in 1658, Archbishop Ussher determined that the world was created precisely at 9am, 23 October, 4004 BC, making today the official creation day, and the earth 6012 years old.
Stop laughing, people. There are some who still seriously believe that: I just got spam from Whirled Nut Daily pushing this very silly book, The Annals of the World, buy James Ussher. They call it a masterpiece. I call it a quaint old oddity.
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Comments
Posted by: Guy | October 23, 2009 3:36 PM
Who's throwing the party?
Posted by: Mixter | October 23, 2009 3:38 PM
Damn, what do you get for an earth who has everything?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | October 23, 2009 3:39 PM
Sweet. I was already going to a birthday party tonight.
Just make a dual party.
But I refuse to try and go shot for shot with the Earth. That's just crazy.
Posted by: Nebula99
|
October 23, 2009 3:40 PM
Mixter:
How about some smarter inhabitants?
Posted by: daveau
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October 23, 2009 3:41 PM
#2-
A coupon for a foot massage?
Maybe we should just try being nicer to it.
Posted by: Policy Merchant | October 23, 2009 3:41 PM
So, the Earth and I share the same birthday?
Awesome.
Posted by: Glen Davidson
|
October 23, 2009 3:42 PM
And geologists try to make it complicated.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Posted by: James F | October 23, 2009 3:43 PM
It doesn't look a day over 6,000, give or take 4.5 billion years.
Posted by: hje | October 23, 2009 3:45 PM
Terra's got nothing on super-Earth Gliese 876 d.
Posted by: Ivorygirl | October 23, 2009 3:45 PM
Does any one know what day of the week that was on,if so how was that day determined?
Posted by: Insightful Ape
|
October 23, 2009 3:48 PM
It was actually the "masterpiece" designation that got me chuckling.
Posted by: Mario | October 23, 2009 3:50 PM
I love what Jacob Bronowski said about this in the Ascent of Man:
"Bishop Ussher a long time ago said, that the universe was created in 4004 B.C. armed as he was with dogma and ignorance he brooked no rebuttal. He knew the year, the date, the day of the week, the hour, which fortunately I have forgotten..."
Posted by: rlrr | October 23, 2009 3:51 PM
You'd think today would be a holiday...
Posted by: jdburton | October 23, 2009 3:55 PM
Is it a coincidence that the bEarth-day falls exactly on Mole day? (6.02x10^23 --> 10-23 --> Oct 23rd) Clearly the hand of God.
Posted by: Kel, OM | October 23, 2009 3:57 PM
Pretty much everything Bronowski said in The Ascent Of Man was pure win.Posted by: SteveM | October 23, 2009 3:57 PM
I seem to remember that it was a Tuesday at 5pm.
He calculated it based on a rigourous study of all the "X begat Y"s in the bible and the ages listed for each X when he begat Y.
Posted by: Michelle R | October 23, 2009 3:58 PM
...Wow. And here I thought the bible was just a vague pile of nonsensical words.
Posted by: 'Tis Himself, Quel Dommage
|
October 23, 2009 3:59 PM
Soupy Sales died yesterday. He didn't make it to see Earth's birthday.
Posted by: scooter | October 23, 2009 4:01 PM
Uccch that Ussher guy literally ushered in the age of Christian Chrazy, not that they were any prize before that nut.
Posted by: vanharris
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October 23, 2009 4:01 PM
Not necessarily, PZ.
Britain and the British Empire (including the eastern part of what is now the United States) adopted the Gregorian calendar in 1752 by which time it was necessary to correct by 11 days. Wednesday, 2 September 1752 was followed by Thursday, 14 September 1752 to account for 29 February 1700 (Julian).
So, Archbishop Ussher must've been working to the older Julian calendar. Has the correction been made?
This is important; it could affect all the astrological calculations.
Posted by: AlanWCan | October 23, 2009 4:03 PM
Saturday , 23 October 4004 B.C. , Julian Day number 258893Posted by: Pedant | October 23, 2009 4:09 PM
Isaac Newton was a fervent Egyptologist. I read somewhere that he commented, examining a King List, "How arrogant the Egyptians are, they trace their history to before the Earth's creation!" (or something like that).
A great physicist / mathematician, but he was terribly naive.
Posted by: Beth B.
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October 23, 2009 4:10 PM
I wave a Hadean zircon in WND's general direction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hills#Oldest_zircons_on_earth
Posted by: Dahan
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October 23, 2009 4:11 PM
Six thousand and twelve years old huh? Hmmm. She hasn't aged well. She looks a LOT older.
Happy birthday Policy Merchant!
Posted by: Revyloution | October 23, 2009 4:15 PM
PZ, you should pull a Ray Comfort and write a forward to The Annals of the World. You could write about how misinformed and foolish Ussher was.
Then you could abuse Amazons system and get it up to the top of the list when people search for it.
Posted by: cag
|
October 23, 2009 4:20 PM
PZ says
With what he is selling, I'm not buying.
Posted by: Ivorygirl | October 23, 2009 4:20 PM
SteveM
If the sun was not created until the fourth day how do we know what day it was if there were no days in the begining?
Posted by: bc23.5
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October 23, 2009 4:24 PM
I followed the link and was filled with mixed feelings upon seeing Banana Man's book "nothing created everything" advertised there. I feel sad for the people who buy into that shit, shame for the perpetuation of willful ignorance, guilty because it is so easy to win over stupidity, (even if folks are too stupid to realize they have been beaten. ((I think that's Ray's middle name, btw,)) ), more guilt because I have to eat babies, love, shame, guilt, babies, love.... I'm going to need to get drunk or go to therapy. Please tell me that babies are actually tasty.
Posted by: Anubis Bloodsin the third
|
October 23, 2009 4:24 PM
# 22
"A great physicist / mathematician, but he was terribly naive."
Or just very sarcastic ;-)
Posted by: senor | October 23, 2009 4:28 PM
She may be getting up there in years but Earth is still a PILF.
Posted by: Traffic Demon | October 23, 2009 4:30 PM
I loved this part - "Integrating biblical history (around 15% of the text is from the Bible) with secular (around 85% of the material is from non-biblical sources)"
They know their target audience is so dumb that they can't figure out what percentage is left over if 15% is from the Bible.
Posted by: kopd
|
October 23, 2009 4:31 PM
So the Earth is a libra. That's an air sign. I'd have expected the earth to be born under, I dunno, an earth sign. ;-)
Posted by: scooter | October 23, 2009 4:39 PM
Down, Down and Away: facePalming in the Age of Stupid
From Inner Side Radio
Piece
Posted by: Buford | October 23, 2009 4:44 PM
#18- Tis Himself
Did you notice that Soupy's agent is named Usher?
Posted by: SEF
|
October 23, 2009 4:48 PM
Unless Ussher's calculation had matched up with the Jewish version of the Sabbath, ie 7th day, being the Saturday (with the "universe" having started on the previous Sunday and the dry Earth turning up on Tuesday) he should have known he was wrong. However, it's all rubbish anyway.
Posted by: JDStackpole | October 23, 2009 4:58 PM
But the Hebrew calendar has this year as 5770.
What happened during those lost 242 years?
Posted by: herr doktor bimler | October 23, 2009 5:10 PM
the world was created precisely at 9am, 23 October, 4004 BC
Be fair. Ussher never mentioned a specific time. From Wiki:
Ussher deduced that the first day of creation began at nightfall preceding Sunday October 23, 4004 BC, in the proleptic Julian calendar...
Posted by: Hank Roberts | October 23, 2009 5:12 PM
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10380674-1.html
... a flexible tentacle-like showerhead that lets you project water spouts in six different directions....
http://www.vado-uk.com/pressrelease.php?task=view&id=40
Wait, I thought only _one_ of the tentacles was used for ....
nevermind ...
Posted by: Jafafa Hots | October 23, 2009 5:12 PM
My birthday was yesterday. Can't be a coincidence.
Posted by: Nebula99
|
October 23, 2009 5:20 PM
herr doktor bimler is probably right. The jewish sabbath starts in the evening, that being thought to be when the original seventh day started. So every biblical day would presumably have started in the evening, rather than at 9 am.
Posted by: Dave D | October 23, 2009 5:28 PM
There are several problems with this date. According to Wikipedia the date is on the Julian calendar which would put it on Nov 5th. But the date was also near the equinox then so shouldn't it be near Sept. 22 now?
Posted by: TheLoneIguana | October 23, 2009 5:30 PM
It's also Weird Al Yankovic, Sam Raimi, and Mythbuster Grant Imahara's birthdays, as well as the anniversary of the release of the original iPod. There must be some grand significance here...
No?
Ok.
Posted by: Brian
|
October 23, 2009 5:31 PM
That's evening in Jerusalem's time zone, though. Don't forget to account for the difference.
Posted by: Creature of the Universe
|
October 23, 2009 5:32 PM
I was hoping the god would give earth another moon for its b-day gift.
no such luck
Posted by: jose | October 23, 2009 5:36 PM
Ussher said it was created on 23th October at noon, not 9am.
Yeah, it's equally wrong, but it's interesting how textbooks copy & paste false information to create popular knowledge out of errors.
Posted by: catsnjags | October 23, 2009 5:39 PM
I have the great gift idea....
TURTLE FOOD!!
Posted by: catsnjags | October 23, 2009 5:50 PM
well, the date explains a lot!!
It means that Adam and Eve were Scorpios !!
Posted by: carlos aegan | October 23, 2009 5:57 PM
i've noticed PZ has made more typos recently...
he must still be hung over from pre-rapture parties the other night.
Posted by: MikeM | October 23, 2009 6:16 PM
...6009 {smack}; 6010 {smack}; 6011 {smack}; 6012 {smack}.
All done. Boy is my arm tired.
This gets harder every year.
Posted by: julian | October 23, 2009 6:17 PM
I think we are missing a very important point here.
It is of course trivial to calculate the age of the earth at 6012 years old using divinely inspired holy scripture but there is a far more important question that everyone is ignoring...how old is the turtle?
Posted by: MikeM | October 23, 2009 6:27 PM
Hmm. Revisionism. Probably liberal revisionism, I'd bet.
Wonder how they feel about that at Conservapedia.
I should start a Conservative Ussher Project.
Posted by: Dr. P | October 23, 2009 6:31 PM
Wow. Just wow. That's my mom you're talking about.Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | October 23, 2009 6:44 PM
The "9 am" thing comes from a Dr John Lightfoot.
Posted by: Darren | October 23, 2009 6:46 PM
Hmmm... That must mean the Sun's birthday is just around the corner.
Posted by: Donald Prothero | October 23, 2009 6:55 PM
As comment #37 pointed out, Ussher did not specify 9 a.m. or any time. That was a later addition by John Lightfoot, but the two estimates have been conflated over the years and attributed to Ussher, then mindlessly copied from one textbook to the next (but not mine). For details, see Brice (1982), "Bishop Ussher, John Lightfoot, and the age of creation." Journal of Geological Education 30:18-24.
Posted by: Polyester Mather DD | October 23, 2009 6:57 PM
Now, now, PZ , being Primate of Ireland must have been hard work with Donahue's knuckle dragging ancestors about , and Archbishop Ussher was only doing his job.
I have endeavored to demonstrate that much can be done with his chronology, if caught young:
http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2007/07/deep-time-for-d.html
Posted by: Sven DiMilo
|
October 23, 2009 7:05 PM
It's always welcomed at my house!!!
What?
Posted by: Azkyroth
|
October 23, 2009 7:23 PM
I guess they're "annally fixated?"
Posted by: Ross | October 23, 2009 7:43 PM
Is is *just* possible that the Ussher date is correct, but there are some assumptions, that if wrong, could push the date of creation back 50 to 100 years.
The pseudoscience that says the earth (and universe) is billions of years old may fool many people, but not me!
Posted by: speedweasel
|
October 23, 2009 7:47 PM
I went to the store to buy a birthday present of 'peace' but I couldnt get it in the earth's size.
Posted by: asidity | October 23, 2009 7:53 PM
Just changed my status on Facebook to say happy birthday to the Earth!
But hang on, the wingnuts who claim the world will end in 2012 say the Earth actually say creation occurred on August 11, 3114 BCE. A rift perchance?
Posted by: bobxxxx | October 23, 2009 8:47 PM
From the earth's point of view (if it was possible for a planet to want something) the extinction of the human ape species would be really nice (not something I want, but it would sure be wonderful for this planet).
Posted by: sqlrob
|
October 23, 2009 8:59 PM
Older than the elephants.
Posted by: Polyester Mather DD | October 23, 2009 10:26 PM
Warning to Mariners and Ark captains !
When using Ussher's chronology for purposes of navigation and tide reckoning, do not fail to correct the time zones of Jerusalem, Eden and the International Dateline for continental drift.
All of it
No warranty is made as to the position , number, and and polarity of magnetic poles , if any. Mariners are warned that declination errors may arise from proximity of binnacles to triceratops saddles and other articles containing ferrous metal.
Posted by: eddie
|
October 23, 2009 10:49 PM
Ross, you are an idiot. That is all.
Posted by: Dr.P | October 23, 2009 10:59 PM
Ross @ #59,
Poe; Please, please say Poe if for nothing else just to keep the headaches away....Posted by: Silič O'Nopolitanopoulos, Färschdbischuf Beesknees aus Ulm und Klein Elguth, Elector Pharynguline.
|
October 23, 2009 11:16 PM
Actually, as I understand it The Annals of the World was a masterpiece.
In 1658.
Ussher had to draw on hella many external references to piece the two parts together. For its time it was a solid scholarship. Resting on faulty hypotheses, sadly, but aside from that the methodology was good.
Champollion calculated the age of the World, too, as a teenager, if I recall correctly. Of course, he as also called in to ensure the Church that some sorta Egyptian artefact wasn't antediluvian.
Posted by: Tully | October 24, 2009 12:05 AM
Actually, he calculated that it was created on a Saturday night.
Also, that date you're citing is a date on the Julian calendar, so the actual "birth date" (based on our own Gregorian calendar) is not for another month: November 23, 4004 (approx.).
Posted by: paradoctor | October 24, 2009 2:29 AM
Thanks for reminding me. I lit a candle, sang "Happy Birthday, dear Universe", whispered "make a wish", and let the wind blow the candle out. It was the very least I could do.
Posted by: Wayne Robinson | October 24, 2009 4:12 AM
Does it include the added day for Joshua to capture the city of Ai? So actually it is November 24 for the Earth's birthday, which would be good. We can celebrate the publishing of "On the Origin of Species" and the Earth's on the same day.
Posted by: darvolution proponentsist | October 24, 2009 5:13 AM
The Great A'Tuin (species: Chelys galactica) is made of win.
Also, Motivated
Also, Also, The Infinite Turtle Theory
Posted by: Cosmic Teapot
|
October 24, 2009 5:30 AM
Revyloution @ 25
Sili at 67 as it spot on. Ussher may have been misinformed but he was certainly not foolish. He was very intelligent, spoke many languages fluently, and as a biblical scholar was one of the best.
If only he had turned his mind to science.
Posted by: Andreas Johansson
|
October 24, 2009 5:40 AM
Ivorygirl:
Because daylight was created on the first day. Duh!
(You're not supposed to ask were daylight came from if there was no Sun. Prolly God's spiritual ass or something.)
Posted by: Knockgoats
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October 24, 2009 6:00 AM
Actually, he calculated that it was created on a Saturday night. Tully
After which one of his drinking pals quipped "I could'a sicked up a better universe!"
Posted by: sbh
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October 24, 2009 6:51 AM
Archbishop Ussher calculated that the universe was created Sunday 23 October 4004 BC on the proleptic Julian calendar, the Gregorian calendar not being in use in England at that time. The equivalent date in the Gregorian calendar is 21 September 4004 BC. As the text says of this "the evening and the morning were the first day" Ussher concluded that this day would have begun at the time for sunset on the previous day by our current calendar. The first day therefore would have been Saturday/Sunday 20/21 September 4004 BCE on our present calendar, and seventh day (on which Yahweh rested) would have been Friday/Saturday 26/27 September 4004 BCE.
Posted by: bobxxxx | October 24, 2009 8:32 AM
Posted by: Ross | October 23, 2009 7:43 PM Is is *just* possible that the Ussher date is correct, but there are some assumptions, that if wrong, could push the date of creation back 50 to 100 years. The pseudoscience that says the earth (and universe) is billions of years old may fool many people, but not me!
It would be very difficult to fake so much stupidity. I think Ross is the real thing.
Of course I could be wrong. I noticed there's no misspelled words. And Christian retards usually forget to add "(and universe)".
Whether or not Ross is joking, there actually are millions of American idiots who think they're really smart because they are flexible enough to estimate the age of the Earth to a longer time. One Christian asshole told me he thought the Earth is 24,000 years old, still a bit off from the actual 4.6 billion year age.
Posted by: Fred The Hun | October 24, 2009 8:59 AM
Umm I just made a comment using the V word and included this link depicting an enterprising young Finnish business woman, did it get censored? No it isn't about what you are all thinking.
http://bp1.blogger.com/_iUis36Ojs-s/SD7SS13O6zI/AAAAAAAADDI/P29A8xcEtRc/s1600-h/Naked-Vagina-Bike.jpg
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space
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October 24, 2009 9:36 AM
Senor says, "She may be getting up there in years but Earth is still a PILF."
You and every other rapacious greedhead on the planet.
Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space
|
October 24, 2009 11:14 AM
Quasi-on-topic: Here's a birthday present for Earth and a poll that might mean something. They ask for your name and email. Pharyngulate this one for science!
Cast a vote for science. Tell the politicians to prove they're serious about climate change!
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/proveit.aspx
Posted by: Jeeves | October 24, 2009 12:58 PM
Anyone interested in a good profile of Ussher should look at S.J. Gould's essay "The Fall of the House of Ussher" in (looks in library) Eight Little Piggies.
Posted by: chgo_liz | October 24, 2009 1:17 PM
If he had been born in Persia or India instead at that time, imagine how different his timeline would have been.
He may have been very smart, well educated, and hard-working, but he didn't know how to think outside the box.
Posted by: agenoria
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October 24, 2009 3:18 PM
Make up your own chronology!
Dinosaurs!
Posted by: Loren Petrich
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October 24, 2009 9:52 PM
Wikipedia has a big collection of dates of creation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_Creation
Most of them are various attempts to add up the Biblical begots, which is what Archbishop Ussher had done.
The resulting creation date depends on whether one uses the Septuagint version (around 5500 BCE) or the Masoretic version (around 4000 BCE).
Posted by: Garth | October 25, 2009 1:35 AM
Sigh.
"in 1658, Archbishop Ussher determined that the world was created precisely at 9am, 23 October, 4004 BC"
Except of course, he didn't.
You and Bronowski have both fallen for an urban myth.
You might want to read Stephen Jay Gould's essay on this and perhaps try thinking before laughing at something you obviously haven't taken even a second of time to understand.
He did calculate a general date of 4000 BC, but not a precise time, somebody else did that later.
But do you really think you are being so clever in making fun at somebody who on all accounts was probably smarter than you or me and, for the time, better educated?
Ussher was a highly intelligent and cultivated man writing before modern geology even hinted at the real antiquity of the Earth and in accord with the generally accepted understanding of his times.
Posted by: Steve Dutch | October 25, 2009 10:23 PM
Hear, Hear, Garth.
Ussher was a contemporary of Galileo. People had no clue how to interpret geologic evidence. The Bible was the only document anyone had that even touched on the origins of the earth. Ussher was being the best scientist he could be for the time and deserves respect, not ridicule.
In 1997 the Geological Society of America meeting in Salt Lake City was in session on October 23 and held a 6,000th birthday party for the earth. I had to leave before it happened but friends who were there told me that someone dressed as Ussher appeared and addressed the group. He said he didn't have access to the modern methods now available. The whole thing was done with respect.
4004 + 1997 = 6001? That's because there was no year zero.
Posted by: JPKole
|
October 27, 2009 1:00 AM
>
> I almost forgot — in 1658, Archbishop Ussher ...
>
Article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher has him dying in 1656.
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